April 16, 2025 • 37 mins
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It’s been 40 years since The Breakfast Club first brought the brain, the athlete, the basket case, the princess, and the criminal together — and we’re diving deep into what still resonates today.
In this episode of Wicked Psychotherapists, Tanya and Erin explore the emotional layers of this 80s classic through a psychotherapist’s lens.
From high school identity traps to generational wounds, from laughter to suicidal ideation, and from cliques to compassion — this conversation peels back the stereotypes and shines a light on the shared human experience behind each archetype.
Plus, we're talking Gen X feels, 80s nostalgia, and how social roles evolve (or don’t) across time.
Whether you're a longtime fan or watching it for the first time, join us for a heartfelt, insightful, and sometimes hilarious exploration of The Breakfast Club — and what it still teaches us about connection, mental health, and being seen.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
You are listening to WickedPsychotherapists, a podcast
where two psychotherapists showyou that taking care of and
learning about mental healthdoesn't have to be wicked hat.
(00:31):
Hi everyone, this is Tanya.
Hi, this is Erin and welcome toWicked Psychotherapist.
Yes, welcome.
So, today we are going to betalking about an eighties cult
favorite, something that allyou, gen Xers and probably some
late millennials will love, theBreakfast Club.
we, thought this would be reallycool to talk about in terms,
(00:52):
mental health and all thedifferent roles that are in this
movie, as well as just someaspects of high school.
I think it would be good, justgoing back to the eighties is
always fun for us, I don't knowwhy in my head.
At first I was thinking it wasearly nineties, late eighties,
but I think it was like 1985.
Yeah, it was, I think it wasmid, yeah, 19 85, 19 86 or
(01:13):
something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, it's a classic.
I mean, it's one that whenpeople are from that era, they
usually know it.
You either know it or you don'tkind of thing.
So I know that this was a bigmovie in my house growing up.
One of my sisters was like, isstill obsessed with it.
and just the, all the differentcharacters that are in it.
All the people that are famous.
In it that are, you know, actorsand everything.
(01:35):
it's really interesting to kindof take a look at it in terms of
mental health because Itcertainly is something I think
we can all relate to.
Or we can at least relate to onecharacter, if not multiple ones
in there.
But I did wanna ask, you know,first, how do you feel about the
movie?
What's your take on it?
Like, when did you first watchit?
Any memories of watching it?
I think I probably first saw it.
(01:57):
I don't think I saw it in themovie theater because I would
have been, I would've been insixth grade, no, not even sixth
grade.
I definitely remember, I think Iwas only about three when this
movie came out, so I definitely,I know I saw it like on tv,
probably on a tape or something,but I just remember whenever it
came on, it was always somethingthat my.
Oldest sister, probably my twoolder sisters, like just loved.
(02:18):
And so I just watched it againand again, you know, by default.
And I just remember thinkinglike, wow, high school is, is
gonna be weird, you know?
And there's just so like, Iwonder which one I am.
Dive into that thinking.
Not to say that those don'texist because they definitely
do, but I think they're kind ofmore blended together.
That depends on what high schoolyou went to, your experience,
things like that.
(02:38):
You know, I kind of felt like Irelated to the Brian, I think
his name was the nerd.
It related to him a little bitand then the basket case.
Just because she just kind offelt like invisible.
She was just kind of there andwas like weird, just being
weird.
They kinda related to those two,the most, a little bit the
criminal too, just because, youknow, we're up in a
dysfunctional family and justkind of, you know, I, I
(02:58):
definitely could see which wayit was he was going, his logic,
you know.
did you relate to any of thecharacters?
Yeah, I think probably when Iwatched it, I probably did
relate more to like the basketcase and.
The criminal of the two.
And I think probably similar to,you know, like, no, dad, what
about you?
You know, like that part islike, oh yeah, I've seen that,
(03:21):
I've seen that in my household,and that seems very familiar.
And the basket case didrecognize myself.
I mean, I'm not making, I wasn'tmaking, sugar sandwiches or
anything, but I do.
The, the feeling of beingignored or not seen or just
trying to, I was gonna say getattention, but just be noticed.
(03:44):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
That, that's, she's a, she's onethat I think not many people,
you know, really related to.
I think she just kind of cameoff as weird and people, like
when it was being discussed inmy house, it was just, she's
weird and, I don't know, justkind of strange.
But, I definitely leaned towardsher.
I didn't make the pixie sticks.
Sandwiches and I didn't use, putdandruff in paintings and stuff,
(04:04):
or I hope not.
Yeah.
You know, show up at detentionjust for fun.
I certainly didn't do that.
But, you know, and definitelydidn't come from a well to do
family who just, you know, theyjust neglected me kind of thing.
But it was just, I don't know.
I think she was a very relatablecharacter and the fact that she
was like, I don't know what todo with myself.
Like, nobody really sees me andI don't know how to be seen and
like.
I'm just weird.
(04:25):
Kind of, that's the way I relateit to her.
Mm-hmm.
But you know, I am kind ofcurious, you know, we didn't
really say anything about thejock or the princess with Claire
and what was the Jock's name?
Emilio.
Esteves.
I can't remember his name.
Andy or something.
Yeah, Andrew.
Yeah.
I, that was not very relatableto me when I watched it, when
the first time.
(04:45):
What about you?
Did you relate to the Andrewperson at all or.
I think not on the surface.
I didn't relate to, I didn'trelate to Claire at all, but I
definitely, I think with Andrew,I think he was trying to meet
his dad's expectations.
Yeah.
He like, you know, kind of, youknow, gave the Brian's friend a
wedgie, like he ended up indetention because he gave him
like a, an atomic wedge or didsomething.
(05:07):
He ended up taping his butttogether.
I don't know if he used tape orsomething, but he ended up
causing some like bodily harm tohim.
I think too, I think like withAnne character, I related to him
more like he seemed kinder atthe end, you know, like, and
Claire still pretty much annoyedme, even though supposedly
everyone changed at the end.
I felt like she is still, wasstill in a different
(05:28):
socioeconomical class and justreally difficult.
Just even how everyone else has,has like their bag lunch and she
has a whole presentation withher sushi.
Sushi, yes.
With like the little mat, thewooden, the bamboo mat Yeah.
And everything.
Yeah.
I, I didn't really, quitereally, I mean, I just,
socioeconomic status and likehaving money and just kind of
(05:49):
focusing on that.
I guess just because that's theonly thing that she can hide
behind, you know?
Let that, you can kind of seeher humanity in that.
Then with Andrew, I think hisfather was a bully, and so he
needed to prove to him, Hey, Ineed attention because I'm
really like this, the same typeof per you are.
You know, that's kind of how youcan see Andrew, the jock.
And he, you can tell he feltreally bad about what he did,
(06:10):
that he didn't even wanna do it,but he felt compelled to do it
to kind of make this image forhis father that he's just, one
of the guys, one of the jocks.
Yeah, and who knows what elsewas going on at home where maybe
his dad is like, okay, well, youknow, this is what defines you
as, you know, an athlete or asmy son, or you know, it's, yeah.
And he didn't seem really upsetthat he was in detention, just
(06:31):
that he didn't want it to affectthe meet the following week and
his potential scholarship.
But Andrew himself was like, Ihate it.
Like I hate, you know, he justkind of hates everything about
this, this role that he's beengiven.
And you know, I think similarlywith Claire, I think she's,
well, you know, this is kind ofwhat I have and I can't let
anybody.
See behind it kind of thing,which was why it was such a big
(06:52):
deal when she did the wholelipstick trick.
It was like a vulnerability ofher showing, some side of her
that maybe, would've lookeduncouth or whatever, in a
different light.
And so it was really interestingto me because I don't think I
could relate to them when I was.
Growing up at all, but actuallylooking back, I can see that
they were all just kind ofhiding behind what they were
given, you know?
It was kind of like Claire andAndy were the two that were
(07:14):
given the most power, seeminglyin the school, but they didn't
even like the roles that theyhad, and they really didn't have
much else because they didn'tfit in anywhere else.
Mm-hmm.
And so I can kind of see fromthat now looking back, you know?
Yeah.
But I think when I was, youknow, younger and in high school
I was just like, oh, they justneed to shut up, you know?
Yeah.
Kind of thing.
I don't think I could really,you know Yeah.
(07:35):
Understand that.
But yeah.
and the Brian Anthony, MichaelHall's character, you know, even
though he is a little dorky andyou know, his reason for being
in detention was, you know, heis gonna try to, he was trying
to kill himself and it was, youknow, it's really.
You know,'cause he wasstruggling with, you know, he
got an F in a class and hebrought a flare gun and the
(07:57):
flare gun went off andeverything.
But he, when they talk about theclubs, when they're asking like,
what do you know, what type ofthings do you do?
You know, when they're askingabout like different
involvement.
He actually seemed the happiestabout all the clubs.
He's like, I'm in physics club,math club, this, you know, and
he actually.
And then Claire is like, no, shedidn't really Social clubs.
Yeah.
She was like, oh no, they needto be social clubs.
(08:18):
He is like, you know, but he'sprobably thinking like, but
these are my friends.
These are people that are likeme.
And even though, you know, hedid seem a little dorky and he
was struggling emotionally forhis reason for being in
detention, he actually seemslike he is trying to connect
with people in school in adifferent way.
Yeah.
he has a, Different outlook onit than, the Princess Claire,
(08:40):
and the fact that you hear thathe's really under a lot of
pressure to be somethingspecific too, that he really
cannot, you know, his one kindof claim to fame or his one role
in high school is feeling like,oh, I get good grades.
You know, I maintain this.
I'm smart.
And the insecurity of like, saymaybe the jock.
You know, or other peoplelooking on that may pick on them
(09:01):
is that, oh, you think you knowso much, it's so easy for you.
you kind of know it all, eventhough there's this huge
struggle that he has, you know,with kind of feeling like I need
to get all A's.
And you know, nobody really seesthat part.
And to the point where he hassuicidal ideations, basically.
He, he's, you know, kind ofthinking about like, I just want
it to all end.
He brings like a flare gun, Ithink, Yeah.
(09:21):
To school.
and so it's kind of thesedesperate, you see behind a lot
of these masks that, they kindof see day in and day out in
high school.
But also, if you apply that tothe greater kind of society, you
kind of wonder and say like, isthere something to other people?
That they're struggling with.
But I think nowadays with TikTokand like, I think there's almost
an oversaturation of what'sbehind our thinking, kind of
(09:43):
thing.
I almost think it's kind of gonethe opposite way.
Since that point where we don'treally talk about mental health.
And now not to say that we talkabout mental health too much,
but almost like we are trying tofigure ourselves out at this
meta level, I think.
And it's put out on, you know,taking social media to the point
where.
I feel like you can almostunderstand someone too much and
it's, you know, kind of reallyalmost inundated with it, which
(10:06):
I'm not making a judgment oneway or the other, but it's not a
very, it's not something like,you know, if somebody said, oh,
I'm struggling and I feel thisway, I think back then in
around, you know, the mideighties people would've been
like, oh, boohoo, you have sucha, you know, kind of tough life.
Right?
Whereas now I'd be like, oh, youmight wanna go talk to someone,
kind of thing.
You know?
Like they would recognizesomeone.
Well, one thing, I was actuallyimpressed when I re-watched the
(10:27):
movie, I.
When he was talking about like,you know, this is why I ended up
in detention, because I got thisFI planned on doing this to
myself.
but the flare gun went off, youknow, but at first everybody's
really listening.
You could see their faceschanged and they seemed very
physically upset and just reallyconcerned for him and concerned
(10:48):
that he would do this and.
This is a virtual stranger.
They just met him, like a couplehours before and they realize
that he's human and you know,they, you could tell like, you
know, all these tough ex seriesall of a sudden just soften.
And then he talks about, oh,well, the flare gun goes off.
And then they, you know, one of'em starts giggling because it's
funny, you know, the flare gun,he brought a flare gun to school
and then they all start laughingand it just lightens it up, you
(11:10):
know.
but I was impressed that theyall, had compassion towards him.
Yeah, that was pretty amazingconsidering that they carry
these roles around and they kindof had to lead them and put them
down and kind of see each otherfor who they were behind those
everyday masks, and to be ableto kind of validate it and say
like, okay, this is actuallytough for this person.
This is actually abouteverybody's kind of struggle in
(11:33):
general in high school and infinding yourself and maybe in
life kind of.
Mm-hmm.
All the way through.
do you feel like there were anymisrepresentations or things
that maybe weren't really wellrepresented in terms of the,
either the roles, the charactersor something in the movie
itself, or something kind oflike ridiculous.
Like I think it was kind ofstupid the way the detention was
(11:55):
set up and they were likeclimbing up in the ceiling and
they were locked into, well,nowadays I guess they would not
be able to lock kids into abuilding and how, almost violent
the principal was towards.
Mm-hmm.
Like he really got incited bythe criminal.
and maybe back in the mideighties that probably.
Was not all that unrealistic,But I guess it's kind of more in
(12:16):
terms of like nowadays thatwould not happen.
No.
that would be a lawsuit waitingto happen all around.
Well, it's also, there probablyare a lot of things, like if
you're in a Saturday detention.
Of course the teacher doesn'tprobably wanna stay there too.
It's like, I don't, I'm not indetention.
Why do I have to be stuck withthese idiots?
But they, you would think thatthere would be some oversight
and that was kind of, you know,you can't sit here, you know,
(12:38):
you're just sitting here, youcan't get up.
It's, but not having theprincipal in there.
Or why does the principal haveto be the one to watch them?
Why isn't it another teacher orsomeone else that, just that,
that seemed a little unrealisticto me.
Like, why would the principal bethe person who oversees Saturday
detention?
and the fact that their, theircharacters are so defined.
(12:59):
They're in these like veryextreme categories.
Like there is the nerd, theprincess, the criminal mm-hmm.
The basket case.
Yeah.
You know, and I just think it'svery much nowadays it feels like
it's more kind of blended,although I still think there is
definitely cliquey rules mm-hmm.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I think there's alwaysgoing to be cliques.
I think there always has beencliques.
I think there always will be.
I mean there, it's just kind ofhow people think.
(13:21):
And you know, like even goingback to like the movie Grease or
even before that, like there'salways been people who
different, you know, like Youlike this type of music, I like
this type of music.
You like.
That, you know, you're in thesame team of sports as I am, you
know, whatever.
It's very, and that people arekind of drawn to, attracts like,
instead of venturing off.
It's kind of scary sometimes forpeople to be friends with
(13:43):
someone who might like somethingdifferent than them, or their
friends might not be in the samegroup as.
so I think this movie tried toshow, okay, well you could
bridge that gap of you don'thave to stay in your little
cliques all the time.
And which, I mean, it is soextreme.
It's like even with the littleuniform, like, okay, well I'm
wearing my wrestling jacket, I'mlooking like a princess.
(14:04):
I am, dressed.
Very, you know, criminal ish.
And it does seem like the JudNelson character, well, probably
all of'em were really justwanting some sort of notif, I
was gonna say notoriety, butjust wanting to be noticed by
someone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's really evident, Ithink, even in their final essay
that they decide to writetogether.
(14:25):
I mean, they have Brian, thenerd, or whatever, they have him
write, write it.
But I think it's about, youknow, kind of saying like, you
only see us in these roles.
Kind of thing.
Mm-hmm.
But we have seen beyond that,you know, kind of thing.
Yeah.
So even in the expectations fromadults and people on the outside
and kind of this, you know,social identity, how you define
yourself, but saying like, isthat really all that we are, you
(14:47):
know?
Mm-hmm.
and is this what we kind of liveoff of?
do we start to see beyond that?
Yeah.
You know, and it's reallyinteresting because if you've
ever been to a high schoolreunion, you know, I think
nowadays you can see on, socialmedia, if you're friends with
anybody, you can see there's bigdifferences in how people used
to be versus.
You know who they are because Ithink they were able to explore
(15:09):
themselves.
You know, maybe in college orafter high school, whatever they
decided to do.
Hopefully they've been able toexplore different parts of
themselves and realize, oh, I'mnot just a jock.
Oh, I'm not just this.
I'm not just that.
Right.
You know, and to be able todiversify that and to say, Hey,
I'm actually like, kind ofcomplex and I'm made up of
things, you know, that are morethan just one category or a
couple of categories.
(15:30):
I do still know of people thatstill do define, like if I see
them from high school or if Ihappen, they happen to message
me on, you know, I don't knowFacebook, which I don't even use
anymore, but if they do, theystill think of me as high
school, Tanya.
they really don't wanna know mebeyond that.
And it just kind of more pointsto the fact that they maybe
haven't grown outside of that.
it's unfortunate.
I think it's a little strangebecause I'm two decades out from
(15:53):
high school and hopefully youwould, feel that there's some
change, some growth, it's weird,because it's like, oh wait, they
just see me as this person Iwas, or how I might have acted
You know, like senior year oreven a little bit after, and
it's like hopefully, I mean, I'mstill, you know, part of that
personality is still there.
But I hope I've matured and Ihope that I've changed and I've
(16:17):
learned to embrace differentparts of myself and I.
Yeah, I'm glad I'm not the sameas I was in high school.
Oh, me too.
Yeah.
I mean, you're not under thesame circumstances that you
were, you know, like you're notin your home environment.
You were able to mm-hmm.
Get out there and choose, youknow, a life for yourself.
And even though, you may havehad some of this stuff from your
childhood you had to deal with,you're able to go in a different
(16:39):
direction hopefully, you know?
Right.
In terms of most people.
But yeah, there is definitely a.
I definitely know at least a fewpeople that, I mean, they, they
just are stuck in that You know,they kind of think like that's
the way people, that's the waythey are, and anything outside
of that is fake.
And it's just really, it'sstrange to me.
It's very bizarre.
Yeah.
Or I grew, I grew up in a smalltown, so it's some people who
(17:02):
stay there just kind of getstuck in that mentality too.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, well, they had that roleand that's pretty much who they
are, who they evolved to.
I'm not saying everyone who's atownie stays that way, but it
does seem like a lot of peopletend to, or a lot of people I've
known tend to or have thepotential to stay in that, those
roles and.
(17:23):
I think for myself, moving faraway from my home where I grew
up, forced me to reevaluatethings and to almost embrace who
I maybe was when I was youngerand who I am comfortable being
now, But I think a lot offeeling like the basket case and
the criminal was probablystemmed from where I had to
(17:43):
live, like where I was living.
Mm-hmm.
I didn't really have much say ofthat, during high school and
middle school That was prettypredetermined.
It's very much like you'rehanded something and you can
kind of do a little bit withinthat box, but then hopefully
after that when you leave home,you're able to kind of say, oh
wait, that's not me.
Or, I remember, that took me awhile to kind of.
get away from that and to say,wait a minute, that's not even
(18:06):
me.
that's really not even, and whenpeople would say things like,
oh, but you're this or you'rethat.
even a few years after, I wouldbe like, says who, you don't
know if that was a mechanismthat I was using to just get by.
I had a lot of differentmechanisms I used to get by and
survive, it might have defined amoment of me, but it doesn't
define 20, 30 years later, it'snot who I am.
(18:27):
It would be a very strange, andI'm glad I'm not in that spot.
I'm really happy to be away fromthat, but I wouldn't even
recognize that person.
Like sometimes, like I think itwas a few years back, somebody
said something to me, a personthat I, you know, maybe was sort
of friends with in high school,and they said something about,
you know, well.
I think you're someone who, whowould just be nice to someone
because you know, you're a verynice person.
(18:49):
And I was like, I mean, I don'tknow, I think I was just kind of
quiet.
You don't really know if I wasnice.
You know, like it's not really,you could have been, you could
have been thinking pretty crappythings about them, you know, in
your head you could have beenquietly ploting like, oh, I
really can't stand this person.
I wasn't at all, weren't, youprobably were nice.
I'm sure you were.
I liked this person.
it wasn't them, but they werejust kind of defining me right
(19:11):
in front of me.
And I was like, you know, that'snot like there was a reason for
why I was so quiet.
There was a reason for this.
And I realized that this dynamicwas very much, with this
particular friend, they kind ofjust needed someone to be kind
of a nice person who was laidback and to kind.
Be with them.
And so I was, we just don't, youknow, we don't really jive that
well.
And some people have gottenupset with me, think that
(19:31):
mm-hmm.
Like, I'm changed or, and I'mlike, well, yeah, I, of course I
have.
You know, like, why haven't you?
Yeah.
That's kind of bizarre to me.
And you don't need to, I mean,you're part of you is still
there, you know, today, but youdon't need to.
Have those same roles and to bethat same person.
And yeah, it's interesting.
I do kind of wish when I wasyounger, maybe I had a little
(19:52):
bit of all of that, like all ofthe different characters in the
Breakfast Club.
I wish, you know, like I alwayshave the, oh, I wish my parents
would've done this.
But I do wish that theremight've been a little bit, more
encouragement for like maybe acefor when I was little, or more
encouragement in school or,whatever.
I wish there would've been alittle bit of each little thing
for me as child me or highschool me or whatever.
(20:15):
Yeah, I can see that kind oflike a bit of a little bit of
each of them kind of makessomeone who's well-rounded sort
of thing.
Mm-hmm.
Because they are in theextremes.
And yeah, I mean, it, itdefinitely, I think, kind of
puts you behind the curtain to,saying, okay, what role do you
play?
I think it's, a little differentnow with social media.
I think you can add in moreaspects of your personality.
(20:35):
more things are kind of talkedabout just by virtue of more
things are out there, right?
But I do definitely think, kidsare always going to struggle and
people are going to struggle on,how to socially identify where
to go, how to do it.
I think this movie just gives alittle bit of hope of Oh,
peeking behind the curtain of,oh, this person might actually,
(20:57):
you know, really just behurting.
Yeah.
And their persona is really, Anentire defense mechanism Against
this.
Yeah.
I mean, you never know.
And which is so true then andnow, even as adults, you know,
we never know what other peopleare going through, what other
people are struggling with orwhat's happening at home.
Or how they're raised, which,you know, it's, it does make you
(21:17):
pause just even for a moment tobe like, okay, well maybe their
interaction with me may not bebecause of me.
Right.
Yeah.
It's, you know, kind of, I thinkmaybe being able to see outside
of the social identity and kindof, you just feel so much in
that struggle when you're aroundthat age and maybe a little bit
beyond that even.
Maybe even, you know, allthroughout your life you kind of
(21:38):
struggle as to like, where do Ifit in?
This is kind of the first placethat you see, but it doesn't
have to be defined by that.
you don't have to stick tobeing, someone who is living up
to your father's expectations oryour parents' expectations and
grades or, being the same typeof vapid personality, like the
princess or, struggling to justeven be a person because you
(21:59):
don't get that at home.
You know?
Like figuring out how to defineyourself and how you do wanna be
seen.
That's a really big statement,isn't it?
How to be and how to, be aperson and figuring that out.
Because some families, you'renot encouraged,
individualization, you'reencouraged.
Okay, well just follow what I'mdoing, follow the steps that we
do, stay quiet or join this ordo that without really choice
(22:22):
There.
Sometimes the lack of choice canreally affect a person too, and
not really remembering thatthey're a person.
I think it's the system of it,the system of a family, the
system of school and socialidentities.
I mean, I know that personally,with my family, I was kind of
not considered unless I wassomeone who was very nice or
very helpful.
(22:42):
And I still struggle with that alot.
You know, nowadays, and it isstill is very much like, oh, you
don't support me blindly, or youdon't, you know, do this then.
You're a jerk, you know, kind ofthing.
I definitely felt like in myfamily I had to have a few
different roles, and I sometimesthink about it when I was
younger, but in order to be seenor to, you know, I felt like I
(23:04):
had to be the one to fix stuff,then had to be noisy or had to
be the criminal to get attentionStay quiet and hide in my room.
I did that.
Like, I felt like I did that forquite a few years just to avoid
the family.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But then, then also it's like,why didn't they notice?
But you know, that's, that's thewhole system was Yeah.
Is messed up.
I mean, it's just, you know,they're not, there's a lot of
(23:25):
things going on mean you and Iboth grew up with a lot of
siblings, so Yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of siblings and alcoholismin my family.
I mean, like.
Yeah.
A lot of, things can, I thinkthat can apply to, you know,
high school or, or just society,right.
You know, that depending onwhere you see yourself or how
you've been treated, you'llstart to project that onto the
world.
And it's about, you know, maybenoticing that, Hey, I don't have
(23:47):
to be this, or maybe this isn'tme, but maybe this served a
purpose for this system.
Yeah.
You know, like high school oryour family and saying, this is
not actually me.
It served a purpose.
It helped protect you.
Yeah, absolutely.
I realize why I, you know,elective mutism.
Why I, I couldn't say anything.
If I said anything, and it wasout of line with.
(24:07):
people that needed to hearparticular things or needed me
to not say anything.
It just, it, it became almostlike I just got this message
that, you know, it's just betterto say nothing.
absolutely nothing becauseanything will get you into this
point of being a bad person orbeing labeled as, I don't know,
just, yeah, these very negativethings.
I absolutely feared and it wascompletely, when I would try to
(24:29):
bring that up, it was justcompletely invalidated.
It still is to this day, so IJust don't say anything.
Yeah.
With regards to that.
It is interesting how otherpeople's perceptions or what
they view as reality is so muchdifferent than the person who
lived it.
And like, just as you weresaying that, I remember like so
often, like when, whatever chaosor whatever was happening in my
(24:50):
household, just hiding in myroom with my big golden
retriever and like one or two ofmy cats and just staying there
and just, you know, just becausethere weren't people always that
I felt like I could talk to ornotice me.
And that's, I think that's againbeing drawn to that basket case,
for lack of a better word forthat person.
Yeah.
But it is, it's hard.
It's hard when.
(25:11):
There's chaos and again, in thehigh school environment, you
know, like that movie is in allkids.
It's not every single kid's jobto be like, oh wait, is there
dysfunction happening at yourhouse?
Me too.
Like, let's, right, right.
Sometimes it does find, I mean,I know I did have quite a few
friends that had similar familyand similar experience, but it
(25:33):
wasn't like we did a jobinterview.
It just happened that, I don'tknow, maybe drawn to each other
or noticed the, the sadness orthe whatever it was.
It's just something, something.
Do you have the markings?
Yes.
You don't get talked to at homeor everything gets piling you
(25:54):
and then they say like, don'ttalk.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or, yeah.
When you do wanna, when you dofinally yell or scream at home,
it's like, whoa, what's that?
You know, like, you're crazy.
You must be crazy.
Yeah.
Wow.
Slow down.
You're, you must have a lot ofanger issues.
It's like, well, it's 15 yearsof, you know, like whatever age
you're at, you know, it's like,I gotta let it out somehow.
It's gonna come out in a veryodd, bizarre way.
(26:16):
Mm-hmm.
You know, to, again, it's notknowing, it's not knowing each
other's context.
You know, and that's whatreally, I feel like that's what
is really important in mentalhealth is understanding people's
context.
Not to make an excuse, but tounderstand how can I best
represent this and what I wannasay, what I wanna communicate,
who I wanna be.
Yeah.
And how I wanna show that, youknow, and yeah.
Or should I not engage in, inthese things.
(26:38):
And I think that is.
That is a good takeaway fromthis movie.
Yeah.
To kind of say like, oh, you,you can see a common thread
between all of these kids andall of people you know that are
in this environment.
Yeah.
That where they're supposed tobe defined.
Mm-hmm.
And take on these roles.
Yeah.
And I think that's also what wasso interesting and almost
shocking at that time, because.
You look at them physically,they all look different.
(27:00):
They all come from differentplaces.
They all have different friendgroups, but after eight hours,
they ended up managing to godeep and kind of cut all those
layers and figure out like, ohwait.
We all have this little level ofdysfunction that we're dealing
with.
I.
And this is how we process it atschool, or this is why we
overachieve or underachieve orwe bully or we, you know, it, it
(27:22):
is, it's interesting and I stillthink the movie held up.
I ended up watching it thismorning before our taping.
But it's, it's still holds up.
I mean, the music is great and Ithink that I've been singing
the, don't you Forget About Mesongs, don't you, for the past
week.
And I mean, it's still, I don'tthink I realized how.
Old Chad Nelson looked in themovie.
(27:43):
Oh yeah.
until I'm watching it as adult.
Because as a kid I rememberwatching I thinking like, oh,
he's so dreamy.
Again, we all know my experiencewith, I mean, come on, Nile's
from Cream.
but I remember thinking like, ohwow, he's so dreamy.
But I also, I was kind of tornbecause I already had a big
crush on Emilio Estevez becauseI loved outsiders.
Yeah, so I, and I don't know ifhe had already been in young
(28:06):
guns, but I already was like,swoon in over him.
And then yeah.
But then I remember like as akid thinking like, oh, Jed
Nelson is so, you know, cool.
And, but then watching it, I.
As an adult watching it, I waslike, holy cow, he looks old and
I had to Google it and he was25, but Oh wow.
Molly Ringle was 17 and AnthonyMichael Hall was 17.
(28:30):
And Ali Sheie.
And Emilio Estevez were bothlike 20, 22 or 23, but he must
have been a very, yeah, thatsounds about right.
But he looked like a very old25, but also they didn't have as
much filtering.
As they do now.
They probably didn't have likeall the different lenses on
while they're filming, and soeveryone's airbrushed and Yeah,
and they were probably trying tomake him look kind of like
(28:50):
trashy and everything.
Yeah.
When you go back, you almostkind of think, you know now,
like if you say, if you wereseeing it first time, now you
might think, oh man, is this guygonna end up being that he's not
even going to high school?
He's just a.
A weird adult that's just kindof, it's, it's gonna schools.
Yeah.
Like 21 drum Street.
Like sometimes when you lookedat it, it's like Richard Greco
looked like he was like 50.
(29:11):
You know, like.
Yep.
Johnny Depp looked good though.
He did.
He did.
He did.
And yeah, it's funny.
even then, they still lookolder.
a lot of people now, you couldtell they're not a lot younger.
Just like, than they do at thatage.
What, like if you watch 9 0 2 1,oh, what is that?
Yeah.
He looked like he was like 30like in a high school, you know?
(29:32):
And he probably was.
And so was Andrea or whatever.
she was very much, yeah, she was30 something.
I think she was the oldestperson and she, and she was
like, but she, she kind oflooked really old, but they also
dressed her like a school marmYeah.
I, it's funny, I didn't noticethis.
Back then.
But yeah, when I look back I'mlike, oh my God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't notice it either.
'cause this is like, okay, wellshe's just kind of frumpy or
(29:53):
he's just cool with this big,like Judd Elza with his big
trench coat and his boots anddid, but then it's like, oh my
gosh.
He, I wonder if it was hard forhim to play like a 17 or
16-year-old kid.
When he is like 26 or 25, Helooked a lot old, like, look,
watching it.
I was like, holy cow.
He looks so much older thaneverybody.
(30:14):
So he'd be like in his sixtiesnow.
Yeah, I think he is.
I think I don't, I don't knowhow old he is.
The last time I saw him, he wason, he made a guest appearance
on two and a Half Men withCharlie Sheen, Like in like
wasn't he in like Enamel's fireor was that Rob Lowe?
Maybe, I think that was RobLowe.
He was in like, I think CharlieSheen was in like platoon.
(30:35):
Yeah.
He was always kind of like a,you know, a scruffy, like, you
know, badass kind of guy.
Yeah.
You know, that didn't follow therules.
And it's the same in two and ahalf men, Yeah, it was, that's
the last time I saw him, justprobably like 15 years ago.
I don't even know what, whatelse he's been in.
I was trying to see, I don'tknow.
it's funny, I was listening, Iwas thinking this morning, I was
like, oh yeah, yeah, okay.
(30:57):
Jed Nelson.
He did all of those movies withthe kids being taken.
I was thinking Liam Neeson, andI was like, what are you talking
about with the kids being taken?
I was like, what is wrong withme?
Because I was like, oh yeah, hehad a really great film Career
after Breakfast Club.
I was like, oh yeah, JuddNelson.
And then I was thinking LiamNeeson's name was Judd Nelson.
(31:17):
I had like a weird neesonNelson.
I just had like a weird brainflop this morning, but so age.
He's 64 years old today.
I mean, not today.
His birthday is in November.
But yeah, he's 64 years old.
Wow.
Jed Nelson, not Liam Neeson.
I don't know how old he is.
It's so strange to just kind oflook back and just to know the
(31:38):
ages of people that you thoughtwere like 16, although
apparently they were 25 evenback then, you know?
Yeah.
And then you're already watchingthe movie.
Like I, I think I was watchingit in the early nineties, so
that's even like seven yearsafter.
So he is in his thirties.
By the time I was watching it,I'm thinking he's like 16, you
know?
Yeah.
I, yeah.
I must have watched it in,'causeI think it came out in 85.
(31:59):
And so I, it was either eighthgrade or freshman year was
probably the first time Iwatched it.
Yeah, I don't think so.
That would be prettyinappropriate.
It was probably on like wheneverit came to tv.
Yeah.
I feel like things came to TVquicker, but maybe like, maybe
they didn't, We didn't really gosee things in theater too much.
I mean, I remember seeing ET inthe theater, but Yeah.
But I don't know.
(32:22):
All very, you know, all this,talk about mental health, the
eighties and how old people wereis just so Gen X.
It isn't it very, we're veryexistential thought process of
what was what could be what.
yeah, it is very Gen X This is areally good, you should, you
know what?
We're not apologizing for thisbecause you should be, you know?
(32:45):
Yeah.
They say other generations, itjust the greatest generation,
but you know, but enjoy it.
We're trying to educate you onYeah.
Mental health topics that youmight not be aware of.
Yeah.
Or no unique that givenperspective of Gen X, that
that's a purely, that's a Gen Xmovie if ever there was one.
Oh yeah.
That, yeah.
It's that, and I don't know ifI'll ever do it.
The Better Off Dead movie kindof always was one of my
(33:08):
favorites.
I think that was a John Hughesmovie too.
Is it Matthew Broadway?
Because like, I want my$2, likethe guys like Chasing Him.
Oh, I remember that.
Yeah.
Yeah, There's a lot good stuff.
If you guys think we're gonnastay current, we're gonna always
go back to the eighties ornineties every once in a while
just to throw off the sun I haveheard that a lot of people are
going back to, oh, let's watchsome of the class.
(33:30):
You know, like in a lot ofpeople are, because just like
with music and stuff, it'simportant to know generations
and different things.
I think one generation after thenext is a branch off of the
other.
It's a response from the othergeneration.
So it's kind of good to knowlike where everything echoes
and.
I mean, it's history, so Yeah.
You know, gen X get to know him.
Yeah, that's true.
(33:50):
Say hello to one if you workwith them or, or if you are one.
Yeah, it's good.
I'm actually, I'm technically,I'm, maybe I'm a very late
millennial, but I'm, we'll,we'll let you in.
We will let you in.
You like the golden girls andyou understand?
Yeah, I definitely grew up witha lot of Gen X.
My oldest sisters, well, allyour family were Gen X too, so
you probably by default andYeah.
(34:12):
It's weird because the twooldest, or the three oldest, I
guess.
Very much Gen X.
But yeah, me and my twinsisters, we were like early
eighties, so we were kind of inbetween, I don't know, because
you see some things, it's like,okay, I've seen some that say up
to 88, then I see some that arelike, Nope, 79.
You know?
It's really weird.
Just by the feel though, I wouldsay I can definitely relate to
(34:32):
millennial culture to a degree,but I don't feel like that's
what.
Like, I feel like I'm kind ofhalf in, half out.
Yeah.
But, you know, and don't reallyfeel, I don't know, it's weird.
I guess it depends on who you'rearound, maybe that you kind of
feel that way.
Yeah.
the millennial generation is solong too.
I mean, there's, so it seemslike it goes like, what is that,
(34:54):
like 15 years?
It's like a long span.
Oh, is it?
Yeah.
So maybe that's kind of part ofit is that everybody kind of
feels a little millennial maybe.
Yeah.
Because there's just so muchthat happened I think
technologically and like withsocial media, so people
probably, that changes a lot.
Anyhow, we are getting offtrack, but which tends to
happen.
(35:14):
If you're still with us, ifyou're still listening, we
really hope you enjoyed thistalk on the Breakfast Club and
Strolling Down eighties memorylane.
Yeah.
Gen X, all that good stuff.
so we hope you enjoyed thislittle stroll, this, look at
mental health and Visa, theBreakfast Club.
Pretty cool characters.
So don't forget to leave uscomments.
Let us know if you havesuggestions for future episodes.
(35:36):
We always love that.
Yeah.
Don't forget to follow us onInstagram.
At Wicked psychotherapists.
And on Facebook, we are thewicked psychotherapists.
And subscribe.
Follow wherever you currentlylisten to podcasts or as you are
right now, because you listen tous right now.
hit follow.
if you just happen to find us,click follow right now.
(35:57):
Do it.
Yes.
Do it.
Just do it.
And don't forget, stay wickedand keep your mind well.
You are listening to WickedPsychotherapists, a podcast
where two psychotherapists showyou that taking care of and
learning about mental healthdoesn't have to be wicked hat.
(00:31):
Hi everyone, this is Tanya.
Hi, this is Erin and welcome toWicked Psychotherapist.
Yes, welcome.
So, today we are going to betalking about an eighties cult
favorite, something that allyou, gen Xers and probably some
late millennials will love, theBreakfast Club.
we, thought this would be reallycool to talk about in terms,
(00:52):
mental health and all thedifferent roles that are in this
movie, as well as just someaspects of high school.
I think it would be good, justgoing back to the eighties is
always fun for us, I don't knowwhy in my head.
At first I was thinking it wasearly nineties, late eighties,
but I think it was like 1985.
Yeah, it was, I think it wasmid, yeah, 19 85, 19 86 or
(01:13):
something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, it's a classic.
I mean, it's one that whenpeople are from that era, they
usually know it.
You either know it or you don'tkind of thing.
So I know that this was a bigmovie in my house growing up.
One of my sisters was like, isstill obsessed with it.
and just the, all the differentcharacters that are in it.
All the people that are famous.
In it that are, you know, actorsand everything.
(01:35):
it's really interesting to kindof take a look at it in terms of
mental health because Itcertainly is something I think
we can all relate to.
Or we can at least relate to onecharacter, if not multiple ones
in there.
But I did wanna ask, you know,first, how do you feel about the
movie?
What's your take on it?
Like, when did you first watchit?
Any memories of watching it?
I think I probably first saw it.
(01:57):
I don't think I saw it in themovie theater because I would
have been, I would've been insixth grade, no, not even sixth
grade.
I definitely remember, I think Iwas only about three when this
movie came out, so I definitely,I know I saw it like on tv,
probably on a tape or something,but I just remember whenever it
came on, it was always somethingthat my.
Oldest sister, probably my twoolder sisters, like just loved.
(02:18):
And so I just watched it againand again, you know, by default.
And I just remember thinkinglike, wow, high school is, is
gonna be weird, you know?
And there's just so like, Iwonder which one I am.
Dive into that thinking.
Not to say that those don'texist because they definitely
do, but I think they're kind ofmore blended together.
That depends on what high schoolyou went to, your experience,
things like that.
(02:38):
You know, I kind of felt like Irelated to the Brian, I think
his name was the nerd.
It related to him a little bitand then the basket case.
Just because she just kind offelt like invisible.
She was just kind of there andwas like weird, just being
weird.
They kinda related to those two,the most, a little bit the
criminal too, just because, youknow, we're up in a
dysfunctional family and justkind of, you know, I, I
(02:58):
definitely could see which wayit was he was going, his logic,
you know.
did you relate to any of thecharacters?
Yeah, I think probably when Iwatched it, I probably did
relate more to like the basketcase and.
The criminal of the two.
And I think probably similar to,you know, like, no, dad, what
about you?
You know, like that part islike, oh yeah, I've seen that,
(03:21):
I've seen that in my household,and that seems very familiar.
And the basket case didrecognize myself.
I mean, I'm not making, I wasn'tmaking, sugar sandwiches or
anything, but I do.
The, the feeling of beingignored or not seen or just
trying to, I was gonna say getattention, but just be noticed.
(03:44):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
That, that's, she's a, she's onethat I think not many people,
you know, really related to.
I think she just kind of cameoff as weird and people, like
when it was being discussed inmy house, it was just, she's
weird and, I don't know, justkind of strange.
But, I definitely leaned towardsher.
I didn't make the pixie sticks.
Sandwiches and I didn't use, putdandruff in paintings and stuff,
(04:04):
or I hope not.
Yeah.
You know, show up at detentionjust for fun.
I certainly didn't do that.
But, you know, and definitelydidn't come from a well to do
family who just, you know, theyjust neglected me kind of thing.
But it was just, I don't know.
I think she was a very relatablecharacter and the fact that she
was like, I don't know what todo with myself.
Like, nobody really sees me andI don't know how to be seen and
like.
I'm just weird.
(04:25):
Kind of, that's the way I relateit to her.
Mm-hmm.
But you know, I am kind ofcurious, you know, we didn't
really say anything about thejock or the princess with Claire
and what was the Jock's name?
Emilio.
Esteves.
I can't remember his name.
Andy or something.
Yeah, Andrew.
Yeah.
I, that was not very relatableto me when I watched it, when
the first time.
(04:45):
What about you?
Did you relate to the Andrewperson at all or.
I think not on the surface.
I didn't relate to, I didn'trelate to Claire at all, but I
definitely, I think with Andrew,I think he was trying to meet
his dad's expectations.
Yeah.
He like, you know, kind of, youknow, gave the Brian's friend a
wedgie, like he ended up indetention because he gave him
like a, an atomic wedge or didsomething.
(05:07):
He ended up taping his butttogether.
I don't know if he used tape orsomething, but he ended up
causing some like bodily harm tohim.
I think too, I think like withAnne character, I related to him
more like he seemed kinder atthe end, you know, like, and
Claire still pretty much annoyedme, even though supposedly
everyone changed at the end.
I felt like she is still, wasstill in a different
(05:28):
socioeconomical class and justreally difficult.
Just even how everyone else has,has like their bag lunch and she
has a whole presentation withher sushi.
Sushi, yes.
With like the little mat, thewooden, the bamboo mat Yeah.
And everything.
Yeah.
I, I didn't really, quitereally, I mean, I just,
socioeconomic status and likehaving money and just kind of
(05:49):
focusing on that.
I guess just because that's theonly thing that she can hide
behind, you know?
Let that, you can kind of seeher humanity in that.
Then with Andrew, I think hisfather was a bully, and so he
needed to prove to him, Hey, Ineed attention because I'm
really like this, the same typeof per you are.
You know, that's kind of how youcan see Andrew, the jock.
And he, you can tell he feltreally bad about what he did,
(06:10):
that he didn't even wanna do it,but he felt compelled to do it
to kind of make this image forhis father that he's just, one
of the guys, one of the jocks.
Yeah, and who knows what elsewas going on at home where maybe
his dad is like, okay, well, youknow, this is what defines you
as, you know, an athlete or asmy son, or you know, it's, yeah.
And he didn't seem really upsetthat he was in detention, just
(06:31):
that he didn't want it to affectthe meet the following week and
his potential scholarship.
But Andrew himself was like, Ihate it.
Like I hate, you know, he justkind of hates everything about
this, this role that he's beengiven.
And you know, I think similarlywith Claire, I think she's,
well, you know, this is kind ofwhat I have and I can't let
anybody.
See behind it kind of thing,which was why it was such a big
(06:52):
deal when she did the wholelipstick trick.
It was like a vulnerability ofher showing, some side of her
that maybe, would've lookeduncouth or whatever, in a
different light.
And so it was really interestingto me because I don't think I
could relate to them when I was.
Growing up at all, but actuallylooking back, I can see that
they were all just kind ofhiding behind what they were
given, you know?
It was kind of like Claire andAndy were the two that were
(07:14):
given the most power, seeminglyin the school, but they didn't
even like the roles that theyhad, and they really didn't have
much else because they didn'tfit in anywhere else.
Mm-hmm.
And so I can kind of see fromthat now looking back, you know?
Yeah.
But I think when I was, youknow, younger and in high school
I was just like, oh, they justneed to shut up, you know?
Yeah.
Kind of thing.
I don't think I could really,you know Yeah.
(07:35):
Understand that.
But yeah.
and the Brian Anthony, MichaelHall's character, you know, even
though he is a little dorky andyou know, his reason for being
in detention was, you know, heis gonna try to, he was trying
to kill himself and it was, youknow, it's really.
You know,'cause he wasstruggling with, you know, he
got an F in a class and hebrought a flare gun and the
(07:57):
flare gun went off andeverything.
But he, when they talk about theclubs, when they're asking like,
what do you know, what type ofthings do you do?
You know, when they're askingabout like different
involvement.
He actually seemed the happiestabout all the clubs.
He's like, I'm in physics club,math club, this, you know, and
he actually.
And then Claire is like, no, shedidn't really Social clubs.
Yeah.
She was like, oh no, they needto be social clubs.
(08:18):
He is like, you know, but he'sprobably thinking like, but
these are my friends.
These are people that are likeme.
And even though, you know, hedid seem a little dorky and he
was struggling emotionally forhis reason for being in
detention, he actually seemslike he is trying to connect
with people in school in adifferent way.
Yeah.
he has a, Different outlook onit than, the Princess Claire,
(08:40):
and the fact that you hear thathe's really under a lot of
pressure to be somethingspecific too, that he really
cannot, you know, his one kindof claim to fame or his one role
in high school is feeling like,oh, I get good grades.
You know, I maintain this.
I'm smart.
And the insecurity of like, saymaybe the jock.
You know, or other peoplelooking on that may pick on them
(09:01):
is that, oh, you think you knowso much, it's so easy for you.
you kind of know it all, eventhough there's this huge
struggle that he has, you know,with kind of feeling like I need
to get all A's.
And you know, nobody really seesthat part.
And to the point where he hassuicidal ideations, basically.
He, he's, you know, kind ofthinking about like, I just want
it to all end.
He brings like a flare gun, Ithink, Yeah.
(09:21):
To school.
and so it's kind of thesedesperate, you see behind a lot
of these masks that, they kindof see day in and day out in
high school.
But also, if you apply that tothe greater kind of society, you
kind of wonder and say like, isthere something to other people?
That they're struggling with.
But I think nowadays with TikTokand like, I think there's almost
an oversaturation of what'sbehind our thinking, kind of
(09:43):
thing.
I almost think it's kind of gonethe opposite way.
Since that point where we don'treally talk about mental health.
And now not to say that we talkabout mental health too much,
but almost like we are trying tofigure ourselves out at this
meta level, I think.
And it's put out on, you know,taking social media to the point
where.
I feel like you can almostunderstand someone too much and
it's, you know, kind of reallyalmost inundated with it, which
(10:06):
I'm not making a judgment oneway or the other, but it's not a
very, it's not something like,you know, if somebody said, oh,
I'm struggling and I feel thisway, I think back then in
around, you know, the mideighties people would've been
like, oh, boohoo, you have sucha, you know, kind of tough life.
Right?
Whereas now I'd be like, oh, youmight wanna go talk to someone,
kind of thing.
You know?
Like they would recognizesomeone.
Well, one thing, I was actuallyimpressed when I re-watched the
(10:27):
movie, I.
When he was talking about like,you know, this is why I ended up
in detention, because I got thisFI planned on doing this to
myself.
but the flare gun went off, youknow, but at first everybody's
really listening.
You could see their faceschanged and they seemed very
physically upset and just reallyconcerned for him and concerned
(10:48):
that he would do this and.
This is a virtual stranger.
They just met him, like a couplehours before and they realize
that he's human and you know,they, you could tell like, you
know, all these tough ex seriesall of a sudden just soften.
And then he talks about, oh,well, the flare gun goes off.
And then they, you know, one of'em starts giggling because it's
funny, you know, the flare gun,he brought a flare gun to school
and then they all start laughingand it just lightens it up, you
(11:10):
know.
but I was impressed that theyall, had compassion towards him.
Yeah, that was pretty amazingconsidering that they carry
these roles around and they kindof had to lead them and put them
down and kind of see each otherfor who they were behind those
everyday masks, and to be ableto kind of validate it and say
like, okay, this is actuallytough for this person.
This is actually abouteverybody's kind of struggle in
(11:33):
general in high school and infinding yourself and maybe in
life kind of.
Mm-hmm.
All the way through.
do you feel like there were anymisrepresentations or things
that maybe weren't really wellrepresented in terms of the,
either the roles, the charactersor something in the movie
itself, or something kind oflike ridiculous.
Like I think it was kind ofstupid the way the detention was
(11:55):
set up and they were likeclimbing up in the ceiling and
they were locked into, well,nowadays I guess they would not
be able to lock kids into abuilding and how, almost violent
the principal was towards.
Mm-hmm.
Like he really got incited bythe criminal.
and maybe back in the mideighties that probably.
Was not all that unrealistic,But I guess it's kind of more in
(12:16):
terms of like nowadays thatwould not happen.
No.
that would be a lawsuit waitingto happen all around.
Well, it's also, there probablyare a lot of things, like if
you're in a Saturday detention.
Of course the teacher doesn'tprobably wanna stay there too.
It's like, I don't, I'm not indetention.
Why do I have to be stuck withthese idiots?
But they, you would think thatthere would be some oversight
and that was kind of, you know,you can't sit here, you know,
(12:38):
you're just sitting here, youcan't get up.
It's, but not having theprincipal in there.
Or why does the principal haveto be the one to watch them?
Why isn't it another teacher orsomeone else that, just that,
that seemed a little unrealisticto me.
Like, why would the principal bethe person who oversees Saturday
detention?
and the fact that their, theircharacters are so defined.
(12:59):
They're in these like veryextreme categories.
Like there is the nerd, theprincess, the criminal mm-hmm.
The basket case.
Yeah.
You know, and I just think it'svery much nowadays it feels like
it's more kind of blended,although I still think there is
definitely cliquey rules mm-hmm.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I think there's alwaysgoing to be cliques.
I think there always has beencliques.
I think there always will be.
I mean there, it's just kind ofhow people think.
(13:21):
And you know, like even goingback to like the movie Grease or
even before that, like there'salways been people who
different, you know, like Youlike this type of music, I like
this type of music.
You like.
That, you know, you're in thesame team of sports as I am, you
know, whatever.
It's very, and that people arekind of drawn to, attracts like,
instead of venturing off.
It's kind of scary sometimes forpeople to be friends with
(13:43):
someone who might like somethingdifferent than them, or their
friends might not be in the samegroup as.
so I think this movie tried toshow, okay, well you could
bridge that gap of you don'thave to stay in your little
cliques all the time.
And which, I mean, it is soextreme.
It's like even with the littleuniform, like, okay, well I'm
wearing my wrestling jacket, I'mlooking like a princess.
(14:04):
I am, dressed.
Very, you know, criminal ish.
And it does seem like the JudNelson character, well, probably
all of'em were really justwanting some sort of notif, I
was gonna say notoriety, butjust wanting to be noticed by
someone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's really evident, Ithink, even in their final essay
that they decide to writetogether.
(14:25):
I mean, they have Brian, thenerd, or whatever, they have him
write, write it.
But I think it's about, youknow, kind of saying like, you
only see us in these roles.
Kind of thing.
Mm-hmm.
But we have seen beyond that,you know, kind of thing.
Yeah.
So even in the expectations fromadults and people on the outside
and kind of this, you know,social identity, how you define
yourself, but saying like, isthat really all that we are, you
(14:47):
know?
Mm-hmm.
and is this what we kind of liveoff of?
do we start to see beyond that?
Yeah.
You know, and it's reallyinteresting because if you've
ever been to a high schoolreunion, you know, I think
nowadays you can see on, socialmedia, if you're friends with
anybody, you can see there's bigdifferences in how people used
to be versus.
You know who they are because Ithink they were able to explore
(15:09):
themselves.
You know, maybe in college orafter high school, whatever they
decided to do.
Hopefully they've been able toexplore different parts of
themselves and realize, oh, I'mnot just a jock.
Oh, I'm not just this.
I'm not just that.
Right.
You know, and to be able todiversify that and to say, Hey,
I'm actually like, kind ofcomplex and I'm made up of
things, you know, that are morethan just one category or a
couple of categories.
(15:30):
I do still know of people thatstill do define, like if I see
them from high school or if Ihappen, they happen to message
me on, you know, I don't knowFacebook, which I don't even use
anymore, but if they do, theystill think of me as high
school, Tanya.
they really don't wanna know mebeyond that.
And it just kind of more pointsto the fact that they maybe
haven't grown outside of that.
it's unfortunate.
I think it's a little strangebecause I'm two decades out from
(15:53):
high school and hopefully youwould, feel that there's some
change, some growth, it's weird,because it's like, oh wait, they
just see me as this person Iwas, or how I might have acted
You know, like senior year oreven a little bit after, and
it's like hopefully, I mean, I'mstill, you know, part of that
personality is still there.
But I hope I've matured and Ihope that I've changed and I've
(16:17):
learned to embrace differentparts of myself and I.
Yeah, I'm glad I'm not the sameas I was in high school.
Oh, me too.
Yeah.
I mean, you're not under thesame circumstances that you
were, you know, like you're notin your home environment.
You were able to mm-hmm.
Get out there and choose, youknow, a life for yourself.
And even though, you may havehad some of this stuff from your
childhood you had to deal with,you're able to go in a different
(16:39):
direction hopefully, you know?
Right.
In terms of most people.
But yeah, there is definitely a.
I definitely know at least a fewpeople that, I mean, they, they
just are stuck in that You know,they kind of think like that's
the way people, that's the waythey are, and anything outside
of that is fake.
And it's just really, it'sstrange to me.
It's very bizarre.
Yeah.
Or I grew, I grew up in a smalltown, so it's some people who
(17:02):
stay there just kind of getstuck in that mentality too.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, well, they had that roleand that's pretty much who they
are, who they evolved to.
I'm not saying everyone who's atownie stays that way, but it
does seem like a lot of peopletend to, or a lot of people I've
known tend to or have thepotential to stay in that, those
roles and.
(17:23):
I think for myself, moving faraway from my home where I grew
up, forced me to reevaluatethings and to almost embrace who
I maybe was when I was youngerand who I am comfortable being
now, But I think a lot offeeling like the basket case and
the criminal was probablystemmed from where I had to
(17:43):
live, like where I was living.
Mm-hmm.
I didn't really have much say ofthat, during high school and
middle school That was prettypredetermined.
It's very much like you'rehanded something and you can
kind of do a little bit withinthat box, but then hopefully
after that when you leave home,you're able to kind of say, oh
wait, that's not me.
Or, I remember, that took me awhile to kind of.
get away from that and to say,wait a minute, that's not even
(18:06):
me.
that's really not even, and whenpeople would say things like,
oh, but you're this or you'rethat.
even a few years after, I wouldbe like, says who, you don't
know if that was a mechanismthat I was using to just get by.
I had a lot of differentmechanisms I used to get by and
survive, it might have defined amoment of me, but it doesn't
define 20, 30 years later, it'snot who I am.
(18:27):
It would be a very strange, andI'm glad I'm not in that spot.
I'm really happy to be away fromthat, but I wouldn't even
recognize that person.
Like sometimes, like I think itwas a few years back, somebody
said something to me, a personthat I, you know, maybe was sort
of friends with in high school,and they said something about,
you know, well.
I think you're someone who, whowould just be nice to someone
because you know, you're a verynice person.
(18:49):
And I was like, I mean, I don'tknow, I think I was just kind of
quiet.
You don't really know if I wasnice.
You know, like it's not really,you could have been, you could
have been thinking pretty crappythings about them, you know, in
your head you could have beenquietly ploting like, oh, I
really can't stand this person.
I wasn't at all, weren't, youprobably were nice.
I'm sure you were.
I liked this person.
it wasn't them, but they werejust kind of defining me right
(19:11):
in front of me.
And I was like, you know, that'snot like there was a reason for
why I was so quiet.
There was a reason for this.
And I realized that this dynamicwas very much, with this
particular friend, they kind ofjust needed someone to be kind
of a nice person who was laidback and to kind.
Be with them.
And so I was, we just don't, youknow, we don't really jive that
well.
And some people have gottenupset with me, think that
(19:31):
mm-hmm.
Like, I'm changed or, and I'mlike, well, yeah, I, of course I
have.
You know, like, why haven't you?
Yeah.
That's kind of bizarre to me.
And you don't need to, I mean,you're part of you is still
there, you know, today, but youdon't need to.
Have those same roles and to bethat same person.
And yeah, it's interesting.
I do kind of wish when I wasyounger, maybe I had a little
(19:52):
bit of all of that, like all ofthe different characters in the
Breakfast Club.
I wish, you know, like I alwayshave the, oh, I wish my parents
would've done this.
But I do wish that theremight've been a little bit, more
encouragement for like maybe acefor when I was little, or more
encouragement in school or,whatever.
I wish there would've been alittle bit of each little thing
for me as child me or highschool me or whatever.
(20:15):
Yeah, I can see that kind oflike a bit of a little bit of
each of them kind of makessomeone who's well-rounded sort
of thing.
Mm-hmm.
Because they are in theextremes.
And yeah, I mean, it, itdefinitely, I think, kind of
puts you behind the curtain to,saying, okay, what role do you
play?
I think it's, a little differentnow with social media.
I think you can add in moreaspects of your personality.
(20:35):
more things are kind of talkedabout just by virtue of more
things are out there, right?
But I do definitely think, kidsare always going to struggle and
people are going to struggle on,how to socially identify where
to go, how to do it.
I think this movie just gives alittle bit of hope of Oh,
peeking behind the curtain of,oh, this person might actually,
(20:57):
you know, really just behurting.
Yeah.
And their persona is really, Anentire defense mechanism Against
this.
Yeah.
I mean, you never know.
And which is so true then andnow, even as adults, you know,
we never know what other peopleare going through, what other
people are struggling with orwhat's happening at home.
Or how they're raised, which,you know, it's, it does make you
(21:17):
pause just even for a moment tobe like, okay, well maybe their
interaction with me may not bebecause of me.
Right.
Yeah.
It's, you know, kind of, I thinkmaybe being able to see outside
of the social identity and kindof, you just feel so much in
that struggle when you're aroundthat age and maybe a little bit
beyond that even.
Maybe even, you know, allthroughout your life you kind of
(21:38):
struggle as to like, where do Ifit in?
This is kind of the first placethat you see, but it doesn't
have to be defined by that.
you don't have to stick tobeing, someone who is living up
to your father's expectations oryour parents' expectations and
grades or, being the same typeof vapid personality, like the
princess or, struggling to justeven be a person because you
(21:59):
don't get that at home.
You know?
Like figuring out how to defineyourself and how you do wanna be
seen.
That's a really big statement,isn't it?
How to be and how to, be aperson and figuring that out.
Because some families, you'renot encouraged,
individualization, you'reencouraged.
Okay, well just follow what I'mdoing, follow the steps that we
do, stay quiet or join this ordo that without really choice
(22:22):
There.
Sometimes the lack of choice canreally affect a person too, and
not really remembering thatthey're a person.
I think it's the system of it,the system of a family, the
system of school and socialidentities.
I mean, I know that personally,with my family, I was kind of
not considered unless I wassomeone who was very nice or
very helpful.
(22:42):
And I still struggle with that alot.
You know, nowadays, and it isstill is very much like, oh, you
don't support me blindly, or youdon't, you know, do this then.
You're a jerk, you know, kind ofthing.
I definitely felt like in myfamily I had to have a few
different roles, and I sometimesthink about it when I was
younger, but in order to be seenor to, you know, I felt like I
(23:04):
had to be the one to fix stuff,then had to be noisy or had to
be the criminal to get attentionStay quiet and hide in my room.
I did that.
Like, I felt like I did that forquite a few years just to avoid
the family.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But then, then also it's like,why didn't they notice?
But you know, that's, that's thewhole system was Yeah.
Is messed up.
I mean, it's just, you know,they're not, there's a lot of
(23:25):
things going on mean you and Iboth grew up with a lot of
siblings, so Yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of siblings and alcoholismin my family.
I mean, like.
Yeah.
A lot of, things can, I thinkthat can apply to, you know,
high school or, or just society,right.
You know, that depending onwhere you see yourself or how
you've been treated, you'llstart to project that onto the
world.
And it's about, you know, maybenoticing that, Hey, I don't have
(23:47):
to be this, or maybe this isn'tme, but maybe this served a
purpose for this system.
Yeah.
You know, like high school oryour family and saying, this is
not actually me.
It served a purpose.
It helped protect you.
Yeah, absolutely.
I realize why I, you know,elective mutism.
Why I, I couldn't say anything.
If I said anything, and it wasout of line with.
(24:07):
people that needed to hearparticular things or needed me
to not say anything.
It just, it, it became almostlike I just got this message
that, you know, it's just betterto say nothing.
absolutely nothing becauseanything will get you into this
point of being a bad person orbeing labeled as, I don't know,
just, yeah, these very negativethings.
I absolutely feared and it wascompletely, when I would try to
(24:29):
bring that up, it was justcompletely invalidated.
It still is to this day, so IJust don't say anything.
Yeah.
With regards to that.
It is interesting how otherpeople's perceptions or what
they view as reality is so muchdifferent than the person who
lived it.
And like, just as you weresaying that, I remember like so
often, like when, whatever chaosor whatever was happening in my
(24:50):
household, just hiding in myroom with my big golden
retriever and like one or two ofmy cats and just staying there
and just, you know, just becausethere weren't people always that
I felt like I could talk to ornotice me.
And that's, I think that's againbeing drawn to that basket case,
for lack of a better word forthat person.
Yeah.
But it is, it's hard.
It's hard when.
(25:11):
There's chaos and again, in thehigh school environment, you
know, like that movie is in allkids.
It's not every single kid's jobto be like, oh wait, is there
dysfunction happening at yourhouse?
Me too.
Like, let's, right, right.
Sometimes it does find, I mean,I know I did have quite a few
friends that had similar familyand similar experience, but it
(25:33):
wasn't like we did a jobinterview.
It just happened that, I don'tknow, maybe drawn to each other
or noticed the, the sadness orthe whatever it was.
It's just something, something.
Do you have the markings?
Yes.
You don't get talked to at homeor everything gets piling you
(25:54):
and then they say like, don'ttalk.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or, yeah.
When you do wanna, when you dofinally yell or scream at home,
it's like, whoa, what's that?
You know, like, you're crazy.
You must be crazy.
Yeah.
Wow.
Slow down.
You're, you must have a lot ofanger issues.
It's like, well, it's 15 yearsof, you know, like whatever age
you're at, you know, it's like,I gotta let it out somehow.
It's gonna come out in a veryodd, bizarre way.
(26:16):
Mm-hmm.
You know, to, again, it's notknowing, it's not knowing each
other's context.
You know, and that's whatreally, I feel like that's what
is really important in mentalhealth is understanding people's
context.
Not to make an excuse, but tounderstand how can I best
represent this and what I wannasay, what I wanna communicate,
who I wanna be.
Yeah.
And how I wanna show that, youknow, and yeah.
Or should I not engage in, inthese things.
(26:38):
And I think that is.
That is a good takeaway fromthis movie.
Yeah.
To kind of say like, oh, you,you can see a common thread
between all of these kids andall of people you know that are
in this environment.
Yeah.
That where they're supposed tobe defined.
Mm-hmm.
And take on these roles.
Yeah.
And I think that's also what wasso interesting and almost
shocking at that time, because.
You look at them physically,they all look different.
(27:00):
They all come from differentplaces.
They all have different friendgroups, but after eight hours,
they ended up managing to godeep and kind of cut all those
layers and figure out like, ohwait.
We all have this little level ofdysfunction that we're dealing
with.
I.
And this is how we process it atschool, or this is why we
overachieve or underachieve orwe bully or we, you know, it, it
(27:22):
is, it's interesting and I stillthink the movie held up.
I ended up watching it thismorning before our taping.
But it's, it's still holds up.
I mean, the music is great and Ithink that I've been singing
the, don't you Forget About Mesongs, don't you, for the past
week.
And I mean, it's still, I don'tthink I realized how.
Old Chad Nelson looked in themovie.
(27:43):
Oh yeah.
until I'm watching it as adult.
Because as a kid I rememberwatching I thinking like, oh,
he's so dreamy.
Again, we all know my experiencewith, I mean, come on, Nile's
from Cream.
but I remember thinking like, ohwow, he's so dreamy.
But I also, I was kind of tornbecause I already had a big
crush on Emilio Estevez becauseI loved outsiders.
Yeah, so I, and I don't know ifhe had already been in young
(28:06):
guns, but I already was like,swoon in over him.
And then yeah.
But then I remember like as akid thinking like, oh, Jed
Nelson is so, you know, cool.
And, but then watching it, I.
As an adult watching it, I waslike, holy cow, he looks old and
I had to Google it and he was25, but Oh wow.
Molly Ringle was 17 and AnthonyMichael Hall was 17.
(28:30):
And Ali Sheie.
And Emilio Estevez were bothlike 20, 22 or 23, but he must
have been a very, yeah, thatsounds about right.
But he looked like a very old25, but also they didn't have as
much filtering.
As they do now.
They probably didn't have likeall the different lenses on
while they're filming, and soeveryone's airbrushed and Yeah,
and they were probably trying tomake him look kind of like
(28:50):
trashy and everything.
Yeah.
When you go back, you almostkind of think, you know now,
like if you say, if you wereseeing it first time, now you
might think, oh man, is this guygonna end up being that he's not
even going to high school?
He's just a.
A weird adult that's just kindof, it's, it's gonna schools.
Yeah.
Like 21 drum Street.
Like sometimes when you lookedat it, it's like Richard Greco
looked like he was like 50.
(29:11):
You know, like.
Yep.
Johnny Depp looked good though.
He did.
He did.
He did.
And yeah, it's funny.
even then, they still lookolder.
a lot of people now, you couldtell they're not a lot younger.
Just like, than they do at thatage.
What, like if you watch 9 0 2 1,oh, what is that?
Yeah.
He looked like he was like 30like in a high school, you know?
(29:32):
And he probably was.
And so was Andrea or whatever.
she was very much, yeah, she was30 something.
I think she was the oldestperson and she, and she was
like, but she, she kind oflooked really old, but they also
dressed her like a school marmYeah.
I, it's funny, I didn't noticethis.
Back then.
But yeah, when I look back I'mlike, oh my God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't notice it either.
'cause this is like, okay, wellshe's just kind of frumpy or
(29:53):
he's just cool with this big,like Judd Elza with his big
trench coat and his boots anddid, but then it's like, oh my
gosh.
He, I wonder if it was hard forhim to play like a 17 or
16-year-old kid.
When he is like 26 or 25, Helooked a lot old, like, look,
watching it.
I was like, holy cow.
He looks so much older thaneverybody.
(30:14):
So he'd be like in his sixtiesnow.
Yeah, I think he is.
I think I don't, I don't knowhow old he is.
The last time I saw him, he wason, he made a guest appearance
on two and a Half Men withCharlie Sheen, Like in like
wasn't he in like Enamel's fireor was that Rob Lowe?
Maybe, I think that was RobLowe.
He was in like, I think CharlieSheen was in like platoon.
(30:35):
Yeah.
He was always kind of like a,you know, a scruffy, like, you
know, badass kind of guy.
Yeah.
You know, that didn't follow therules.
And it's the same in two and ahalf men, Yeah, it was, that's
the last time I saw him, justprobably like 15 years ago.
I don't even know what, whatelse he's been in.
I was trying to see, I don'tknow.
it's funny, I was listening, Iwas thinking this morning, I was
like, oh yeah, yeah, okay.
(30:57):
Jed Nelson.
He did all of those movies withthe kids being taken.
I was thinking Liam Neeson, andI was like, what are you talking
about with the kids being taken?
I was like, what is wrong withme?
Because I was like, oh yeah, hehad a really great film Career
after Breakfast Club.
I was like, oh yeah, JuddNelson.
And then I was thinking LiamNeeson's name was Judd Nelson.
(31:17):
I had like a weird neesonNelson.
I just had like a weird brainflop this morning, but so age.
He's 64 years old today.
I mean, not today.
His birthday is in November.
But yeah, he's 64 years old.
Wow.
Jed Nelson, not Liam Neeson.
I don't know how old he is.
It's so strange to just kind oflook back and just to know the
(31:38):
ages of people that you thoughtwere like 16, although
apparently they were 25 evenback then, you know?
Yeah.
And then you're already watchingthe movie.
Like I, I think I was watchingit in the early nineties, so
that's even like seven yearsafter.
So he is in his thirties.
By the time I was watching it,I'm thinking he's like 16, you
know?
Yeah.
I, yeah.
I must have watched it in,'causeI think it came out in 85.
(31:59):
And so I, it was either eighthgrade or freshman year was
probably the first time Iwatched it.
Yeah, I don't think so.
That would be prettyinappropriate.
It was probably on like wheneverit came to tv.
Yeah.
I feel like things came to TVquicker, but maybe like, maybe
they didn't, We didn't really gosee things in theater too much.
I mean, I remember seeing ET inthe theater, but Yeah.
But I don't know.
(32:22):
All very, you know, all this,talk about mental health, the
eighties and how old people wereis just so Gen X.
It isn't it very, we're veryexistential thought process of
what was what could be what.
yeah, it is very Gen X This is areally good, you should, you
know what?
We're not apologizing for thisbecause you should be, you know?
(32:45):
Yeah.
They say other generations, itjust the greatest generation,
but you know, but enjoy it.
We're trying to educate you onYeah.
Mental health topics that youmight not be aware of.
Yeah.
Or no unique that givenperspective of Gen X, that
that's a purely, that's a Gen Xmovie if ever there was one.
Oh yeah.
That, yeah.
It's that, and I don't know ifI'll ever do it.
The Better Off Dead movie kindof always was one of my
(33:08):
favorites.
I think that was a John Hughesmovie too.
Is it Matthew Broadway?
Because like, I want my$2, likethe guys like Chasing Him.
Oh, I remember that.
Yeah.
Yeah, There's a lot good stuff.
If you guys think we're gonnastay current, we're gonna always
go back to the eighties ornineties every once in a while
just to throw off the sun I haveheard that a lot of people are
going back to, oh, let's watchsome of the class.
(33:30):
You know, like in a lot ofpeople are, because just like
with music and stuff, it'simportant to know generations
and different things.
I think one generation after thenext is a branch off of the
other.
It's a response from the othergeneration.
So it's kind of good to knowlike where everything echoes
and.
I mean, it's history, so Yeah.
You know, gen X get to know him.
Yeah, that's true.
(33:50):
Say hello to one if you workwith them or, or if you are one.
Yeah, it's good.
I'm actually, I'm technically,I'm, maybe I'm a very late
millennial, but I'm, we'll,we'll let you in.
We will let you in.
You like the golden girls andyou understand?
Yeah, I definitely grew up witha lot of Gen X.
My oldest sisters, well, allyour family were Gen X too, so
you probably by default andYeah.
(34:12):
It's weird because the twooldest, or the three oldest, I
guess.
Very much Gen X.
But yeah, me and my twinsisters, we were like early
eighties, so we were kind of inbetween, I don't know, because
you see some things, it's like,okay, I've seen some that say up
to 88, then I see some that arelike, Nope, 79.
You know?
It's really weird.
Just by the feel though, I wouldsay I can definitely relate to
(34:32):
millennial culture to a degree,but I don't feel like that's
what.
Like, I feel like I'm kind ofhalf in, half out.
Yeah.
But, you know, and don't reallyfeel, I don't know, it's weird.
I guess it depends on who you'rearound, maybe that you kind of
feel that way.
Yeah.
the millennial generation is solong too.
I mean, there's, so it seemslike it goes like, what is that,
(34:54):
like 15 years?
It's like a long span.
Oh, is it?
Yeah.
So maybe that's kind of part ofit is that everybody kind of
feels a little millennial maybe.
Yeah.
Because there's just so muchthat happened I think
technologically and like withsocial media, so people
probably, that changes a lot.
Anyhow, we are getting offtrack, but which tends to
happen.
(35:14):
If you're still with us, ifyou're still listening, we
really hope you enjoyed thistalk on the Breakfast Club and
Strolling Down eighties memorylane.
Yeah.
Gen X, all that good stuff.
so we hope you enjoyed thislittle stroll, this, look at
mental health and Visa, theBreakfast Club.
Pretty cool characters.
So don't forget to leave uscomments.
Let us know if you havesuggestions for future episodes.
(35:36):
We always love that.
Yeah.
Don't forget to follow us onInstagram.
At Wicked psychotherapists.
And on Facebook, we are thewicked psychotherapists.
And subscribe.
Follow wherever you currentlylisten to podcasts or as you are
right now, because you listen tous right now.
hit follow.
if you just happen to find us,click follow right now.
(35:57):
Do it.
Yes.
Do it.
Just do it.
And don't forget, stay wickedand keep your mind well.
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