July 9, 2025 • 37 mins
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What if your entire life was secretly being broadcast to the world—would you know it?
This week on Wicked Psychotherapists, Erin and Tanya dive deep into the psychological layers of The Truman Show, that eerily ahead-of-its-time 1998 film starring Jim Carrey in one of his first serious roles.
We break down how this classic predicted the rise of social media, 24/7 surveillance culture, and the growing pressure to perform “normalcy” for an invisible audience.
From gaslighting on a global scale to the link between Truman’s experiences and social anxiety, we explore the mental health implications of being watched—and what it means to find your authentic self in a world full of curated performances.
Also, don’t miss our challenge question: would you take $2 million a year to be live-streamed 24/7? Your answer might surprise you.
🎥 Next up: Office Space!
👻 And yes—“Little Nicky” for Halloween might just be happening...
💬 Listen, reflect, and let us know: would YOU have escaped the Truman Show?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
You are listening to WickedPsychotherapists, a podcast
where two psychotherapists showyou that taking care of and
learning about mental healthdoesn't have to be wicked hat.
Tanya (00:36):
Hey guys, it's Tanya.
Erin (00:37):
Hi, it's Erin and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapists.
Tanya (00:41):
So today we have a really, well, one of my
favorites, a movie that was inthe late nineties with Jim
Carey.
today we're gonna talk about themovie, the Truman Show.
that is a really interestingmovie.
I think from a therapeutic andmental health perspective
because there are so many themesin here that we can definitely
(01:01):
relate to.
And also so many modern daysocial media, kind of open
surveillance type of themes thatare very relatable to us.
So if you have not seen this, Itmay not be that big of a
surprise to you, or maybe it'llbe kind of cool to see from 1998
that this had already been aconcern or thought of, but it
(01:24):
was around a time, Erin, you hadpointed out.
About there was the, this wasthe time with a lot of reality
shows.
Erin (01:30):
was I saying?
Yeah.
Like it was, yeah,
Tanya (01:32):
cops was
Erin (01:32):
this was filmed in 98 I think.
So MTV's real world was stillgoing, road rules was on cops.
had just started like, this is,this is how long, you know,
like.
And then America's funny videojust started about that time,
maybe a little bit before that.
And then Road Rules, real WorldRoad Rules Challenge was about,
(01:55):
you know, that same time itstarted, survivor didn't start
yet.
Big Brother didn't start yet.
No American Idol, Kardashians,anything like that, or the Real
Housewives.
None of that was.
In reality yet when the TrumanShow came out.
Tanya (02:08):
if that's hard for you to remember, then, welcome to our
world, depending on how youngyou are or how much you were
paying attention during thattime.
But I'm pretty sure if you were,conscious during that time, you
were aware of it.
So it really was, a movie thatwas reflecting on some themes
that were about future worriesor themes that were.
(02:29):
coming up with reality shows andhaving so much being documented
of your life.
So this movie maybe was bornaround that.
Or maybe just the thoughts ofwhere it would go in the future
and just the fact that we hadthis technology kind of up and
coming, of course, nowhere nearwhat we have today, And this is.
stars, Jim Carrey, and he was ina more serious role.
(02:52):
This was not a funny role.
It was more kind of like he, hewas this central character who
was very innocent in all of thisand did not have any awareness
of, the outside.
Malice around him, He wasbasically a character
unknowingly within a realityshow.
so his whole life called theTruman Show, his name was
(03:12):
Truman, from birth until the endof the end of this movie, you
know, he was being filmed 24 7and everybody.
It was a huge hit.
People tuned in, all thecharacters and the neighborhood
where he lived, the world helived in was a big giant studio
set.
Erin (03:30):
Yeah.
Tanya (03:30):
and he was the only one that didn't know was on a studio
set.
This was his world.
It was
Erin (03:34):
24 7 streaming it.
While you're saying that, I wasalmost thinking of like Big
Brother, the show Big Brother.
Tanya (03:40):
you know, I
Erin (03:40):
remember when it first started you could watch it.
Live, like when people reallygot home computers and
everything.
you could watch it 24 hours aday that was the first of its
kind like, it's like reallydiving into, you know, everyone.
And so, but Truman show againwas ahead of the time.
Like it's just even talkingabout this, like all the
voyeurism of like, let's watchsomebody.
(04:03):
Nonstop.
Let's watch him brushing histeeth.
Let's watch him eat breakfast orhave conversations with his
neighbors.
I mean, it's so, it seems soboring, but for everyone else,
it's so interesting.
Everyone's glued to it.
That's all anyone wants towatch.
Tanya (04:18):
Well, that's a good point because now we go and we watch
reels of people
Erin (04:22):
Yeah.
Tanya (04:22):
Eating what they had for breakfast or a new routine on
how to floss your teeth, whichI've seen.
I've watched, not gonna lie.
these are things that, you know,they're not, uh, too far off
from what we still may want.
I think we as a people have anatural curiosity into what are
people's lives like, really, ifsomebody is not aware that
(04:45):
they're being filmed or livestreamed, and this is their
world.
Now we don't necessarily havethat unless it's with maybe the
kids in some of these showsbecause they can't really
consent to that.
But they're aware that they'reon camera.
But how aware are they isanother question.
that kind of, is similar to it,but I think that's why it was so
(05:07):
fascinating, because I thinkespecially at that point in
time, 1998, it was very muchlike.
what do people do when theythink no one's looking?
What are people's habits?
Are they like me?
Am I weird?
Are they weird?
and that was very fascinating tothem.
So, we meet Truman and he seemsto be just in his routine.
He's married to a woman who is.
supposedly a nurse.
(05:28):
she's an actress acting withinthe Truman Show, but he doesn't
know that, which I always foundso strange.
'cause of course, thinking in mypractical, you know, third
person view, like, how does shehave a life?
and she has to be a wife.
Well, I was think that while
Erin (05:42):
you're saying that too, I'm thinking like, what is their
contract for work?
Because it's probably alright.
You may have this to work forthe next 20 years, depending on
how long you're married, or like24 hours a day.
it's a big commitment to theiracting craft too.
Tanya (05:59):
They must have had huge, penalties if they broke that
contract.
that's basically like, you gottalive another life.
I mean, more so than acting youreally have to be in that with
someone.
So that it's really,
Erin (06:07):
yeah.
So it's a big commitment.
it would be really hard foreveryone who's in it, even his
dad and everyone else who's partof your life.
full time all day.
Tanya (06:16):
Yeah.
That's craziness.
And I mean, his mother.
Has to just be his mother andtake care of him, I know this is
all a movie and this didn'treally happen, but these are the
things that went through mymind.
yeah, so anyways, so we, we seethat Truman is really, he, he's
got this kind of boring, youknow, run of the mill.
(06:36):
insurance job, or something, youknow, generalized office work
one of those generic lookingoffice buildings.
He says hi to the neighbors thesame way every day.
They're like the picture perfectneighbors.
the houses are fairly similarvery idealized world.
He says hi to the same peopleevery day on the way to work.
Drives a.
family friendly car.
(06:57):
goes to his job and has a veryrun of the mill life.
people love to watch this to seeis there going to be something
different?
Is this all there is?
people are very curious aboutthat.
And again, I would compare thatto.
Social media today with somedifferences because people for
the most part know that they'refilming themselves, but maybe
they don't realize how Right.
(07:17):
What it is they're putting outor how much, or why, especially
if you grew up with this.
And it's just kind of a part ofyour life.
So that's really a question ofhow much do we edit our lives or
how much do we think we shouldput out there?
And even now on media, it's likealmost like
Erin (07:32):
That maybe we shouldn't put so much out, but it seems
like everyone went the opposite.
Like, this is the blueprint forwhat we should do.
Instead of like, Hey, maybe weshouldn't.
All beyond social media orrecord every aspect of our life
for everybody.
Tanya (07:47):
Yeah.
And like maybe what's the pointin that?
Or, you know, is there somethingthat makes you feel less alone
because of that, or somethingthat kind of normalizes
something for you?
again, I'm not saying anythingfor or against it.
I'm just, you know, kind of thequestions this movie brings up
Erin (08:02):
Yeah, it's the, oh yeah, I'm brushing my teeth too.
I go to work, I drive, I.
May have had similar experiencesin my childhood or teens or had
trouble making friends or hadthis one best friend my whole
life.
So there could be somesimilarities or their life can
be completely opposite of his,where it's like, my gosh, I live
(08:22):
in this.
apartment building and I don'thave a house, or I don't have a
relationship, or I don't feelsafe, So it's nice to see the
opposite.
Tanya (08:30):
Yeah, for sure.
and there's this kind of, thesetwo components that are
constantly driving Truman, andit's this, the thought of this
woman he met when he was in.
college, right?
Because it's all a movie set.
and, when he went to college andone of the extras, oh, they
probably had to sign.
Erin (08:48):
Yeah.
Tanya (08:49):
This actress broke through that and said he really
seemed to like her and shebasically was like.
I'm gonna bring him down, to thebeach where maybe the cameras
can't get to us and tell'emwhat's true.
she said this is all fake.
You're in a show.
And then, the crew sends outthis person, an actor pretending
to be your dad and is like, shegets like this when she doesn't
(09:10):
take her pills But that issomething that sticks in his
mind He really felt attracted toher, but she was taken off the
set and they pushed his wifetowards him, like, Hey, that's
the person we want you to bewith.
So he's driven by finding thatperson who told him the truth
that he senses is out there andhe's driven by this need to,
(09:31):
like, he keeps saying, I wanna,I wanna get outta here.
I wanna go and see beyond, youknow, this town and everything
in his life has been verytraumatically, discouraged, and
set up this way in the movieset.
For him not to go over bridgesor go over water, we're gonna
Erin (09:46):
drown in
Tanya (09:47):
With his dad drowning, it's like,
Erin (09:49):
because they know if he goes past the water, there's an
end.
he's gonna find out that It'sall not real.
So they can't afford to have himgo in the water at all.
Tanya (09:58):
Yeah.
they basically set up a lifelongtrauma for him when he went out
boating with his dad and the daddrowns in this big storm.
and it's reinforced by, hismother, the actress, who he
believes to be his mother,Saying, oh, I know you blame
yourself, but it wasn't yourfault.
Kind of passive aggressivelymaking him reimplant that idea
(10:18):
like it was your fault.
You were boating with your dadand he drowned when you were
there.
Which is so awful.
But too, you have to, I thinkyou wonder too,
Erin (10:25):
again, I know this is a show, but these two people who
were playing his parents, theywere playing his parents, since
he was a baby, they had to havesome connection to him.
Tanya (10:34):
Yeah.
Erin (10:35):
it had to not have been just a job.
Tanya (10:38):
sure.
Erin (10:38):
Unless it was, who knows how they're like, oh, this is a
really good paycheck.
I can keep playing this role.
Tanya (10:44):
Well, it sounds like the dad did because he was really
upset when he realized like, oh,they're making me drown.
They're cutting me off, And hetried to break back on the set
again, like that's how he foundhim.
So I think he felt somethingtowards that.
That's how they had toreintroduce him and be like, oh,
your father didn't actuallydrown.
Because then he had seen himwhen he broke back on and he was
(11:05):
like, but there's, theseinstances that start to break on
set, you know, around this timewhere he starts to notice
everything's in sync.
Everything is moving in a waythat is kind of around him.
He hears the radio mess up andhears some backstage production,
instructions instead.
And he's like, what?
they were radioing and saying,okay, he's going east on Main
(11:28):
Street or whatever.
And he was like,
Erin (11:30):
yeah,
Tanya (11:31):
that's me.
Erin (11:31):
Yeah,
Tanya (11:32):
so talk about paranoia.
My God, this world really wasset up for him, but this is also
mimicking if how somebody wouldfeel if they're very paranoid or
have delusions.
Right.
You know that.
Yeah.
If this weren't the case, yeah.
Be this weren't set up this way,I guess,
Erin (11:47):
after the show, it was dubbed the Truman Show syndrome,
where some people actually.
Started to get the paranoia.
Or have that sometimes wherethey feel as though they are on
a reality show,
Tanya (11:57):
Mm-hmm.
Erin (11:58):
So that's, yeah.
'cause it is probably, yeah, itis like a, because on the show
though, they did try to make itseem like, you're crazy.
You're just imagining this.
You didn't see the light fixturejust fall from the ceiling.
From
Tanya (12:08):
Talk about gaslighting.
They gaslit His whole life.
That's the most insane scalegaslighting I've ever heard
Erin (12:14):
After it's like, oh, wait a minute.
I really didn't have all thistrauma.
Or I did have trauma becausethey put trauma in my life, and
it's just, yeah.
Tanya (12:23):
It's like he really experienced these things, but
this wasn't real.
how do you connect that?
How do you not have somedisconnect in that, but need to
connect with that?
That is absolutely, I think, oneof the highest traumas out there
that would be so difficult towork with.
Erin (12:39):
it's almost like somebody who was raised as a person cult
or something like that.
How do you, get that out oftheir brain?
But yeah.
how do you do the therapy tohelp poor Truman?
Tanya (12:49):
Yeah.
Erin (12:49):
Is the producer, your dad, the director, the actor, but who
are really your best friends?
Do you have any friends?
Tanya (12:56):
Who am I like how, you know, because who he developed
up until this point.
Was who he is.
Who he is, but it's also kind offalse.
there's so many, any of hisdegrees, gosh, so many issues
for deprogramming on unraveling,any degrees of schooling.
Erin (13:10):
Is any of that real, or does he have to go back to
kindergarten?
Tanya (13:13):
he's having a Billy Madison moment.
You have to go Billy Madison.
there's Adam Sandler in there.
Erin (13:17):
Because was he just being taught by fellow actors or was
he actually having degrees
Tanya (13:22):
Well, I'm guessing it was probably just built around
whatever was needed andreinforcing.
they show that scene in theclassroom where the teacher's
like, what do you wanna be whenyou get older?
And little Truman is like, theyhave a flashback.
He's like, I wanna explore theworld.
And she's like.
Can't do it.
Everything's been explored, Soit's like kind of instilling,
all this,
Erin (13:41):
you'll stay here.
Ideas that they want to keep himthere and keep him.
No reason to leave thistraumatized Seashore town.
Tanya (13:47):
I think it was Whitehaven or something?
Or maybe I'm thinking ofsomething else, but they're
like, this has the best friend'salways like, where do you wanna
go?
This place has everything.
I've been everywhere.
This is it.
there's nothing to see.
You know, like everybody's justtrying to reinforce, stay here,
I think maybe, what you'relimited to is what you'll be
drawn to no matter what.
Like he had this inner fortitudethis sense of, I feel like
(14:08):
there's something more beyondthis.
something is really there, youknow?
and I think he's always had thatin him.
so the more people pushed backagainst it, he realized, well,
I'm limited.
I can't go over bridges or overwater.
I still really feel like there'ssomething there, which I think
is his Intuition of this just,doesn't feel right.
Like you said, as a human said,
Erin (14:28):
can video me and record me, but you don't know what's
going on inside my brain, Icould be trying to figure out,
Or trying to help myself of myfear of water or trying to
figure out what it looks like toleave this town To go back to my
dreams of being an explorer orwanting to learn about new
things.
Tanya (14:48):
Yeah.
And now that I think about it,he probably was feeling like he
had to really mask a lot of hisfeelings and, hide a lot of
things because they were sodiscouraged from a young age.
even though he may not haverealized that was wrong, he
probably still kept that andsaid like, well.
How I'm expected to be is verypleasant because that was what
(15:08):
was encouraged of him so that hecould be a good kind of
entertainment piece.
Erin (15:13):
Even the neighbors every day have a good day, good
evening, goodnight, you know,whatever.
Tanya (15:17):
Mm-hmm.
Erin (15:17):
You always wonder if he felt like, okay, this is what's
expecting me.
What if I don't wanna sayanything to them?
What if I just wanna get in mycar and go to work?
But it's almost like they'rethere waiting.
'cause they.
They, part of their role fortheir script is like, you need
to be there when he exits hishouse, so he can say that line
(15:38):
to you and the person driving onthe highway or whatever.
You have to be right where youknow he's gonna be, so Truman
can wave to you or say hello toyou.
but what if Truman wanted tojust be quiet or listen to the
radio or just wants to scream.
It's like he's so expected andconditioned from a young age,
like, oh, you're gonna bepleasant, you're gonna be happy,
(15:59):
you're gonna be, cheerful andnot really talk about your
problems.
Tanya (16:04):
Yeah.
And so I think he probablylearned to say okay, this is my
external personality, butinternally.
He'd really been struggling withit for a while and probably,
just always was questioning andthings felt off, but he didn't
quite know.
it sounds like he just was kindof holding that there and he
certainly had this.
Desire to search out that, thatextra he was making, collages of
(16:26):
her, like with her eyes she hadreally nice eyes, and he was
trying to find the perfect setof eyes for her Deep.
Feelings or wanted to explorethat more than he was able to.
But again, he was set up, hisfate was determined by the
studio and the screenwriting orhowever they thought his life
should go.
Which brings up an interestingquestion of fate?
Is your fate kind ofpredetermined?
(16:47):
Is it not, How do you makedecisions?
In his case, it was set up forhim, but he still even behind
the scenes as much as hepossibly could, even though he
was being filmed all the timeand people were trying to
dissuade him.
He still was making collages.
He still was trying to find thisgirl's name in the phone book
that the father falsely gave.
He was still trying to get tothe bridge and be like, okay, I
(17:09):
can do this, I can do this.
And then be like, no, I can't.
Erin (17:11):
I'm gonna try to learn how to get over my fear of water
too, without, it's almost like Ican't let anybody know that I'm
working on this.
so part of him, it is almostlike something was a driver for
him.
Something was leading him.
Tanya (17:25):
He had this internal drive and I think that's the
part he was really addressing.
he was like, you never had acamera in my head.
you didn't know that.
You don't know how I felt or thethings that I wanted to do just
because I did this with my lifeand decided to follow this path.
That doesn't mean that's true.
Erin (17:40):
A lot of people in the world, you know, like not just
Truman, but like a lot of timeswe feel like we know what's
going on with a person becausewe see what they do for a job,
or we see how their family is,or we see how they've acted in
their family unit, but we don'treally know exactly what's going
on with the person, especiallyif they're not sharing yet.
Tanya (17:58):
yeah, for sure.
I do wonder if there.
It seems like there would havebeen some sort of, social
anxiety, I related to this movieso well because not that Truman
would've had social anxiety, butthere was almost this feeling
when you have social anxiety.
You perceive that people arealways judging you and watching
(18:20):
and you're doing the wrong thingBeing perceived is painful.
When I watched this movie, Ireally related to that and I
think that also speaks to socialanxiety And I wonder if anybody
else kind of felt that.
As well that has social anxiety.
And, I don't mean like you'rekind of shy in social
situations, which I know is kindof what we think of as social
(18:41):
anxiety.
I mean like truly is, socialanxiety disorder.
Like really, really, a feelingof Not okay.
being seen.
Erin (18:48):
Like, you know, this store, this restaurant, this
classroom, everyone.
You're perceiving thateveryone's stopping to look at
you or notices if you make anoise or do anything.
it's difficult when you havesocial anxiety.
Tanya (19:02):
yeah.
Erin (19:03):
You're being videoed or feel like you're on your own
reality show.
Tanya (19:06):
Yeah, and I really wanna clarify that because this was
something that a therapist I sawin Florida a long time ago said,
it's kind of akin to narcissism.
I wanna say that to thattherapist out there.
I hope you're never ever sayingthat to somebody with social
anxiety disorder to the degreethat I had it, because that was
(19:27):
when I stopped seeing thatperson.
It is not a feeling of like, oh,people are looking at me and
admiring me.
It is almost like the sun, ifyou step outside, the sun burns
your skin.
And that is like anybody.
Yeah.
I mean, that's the degree that Ihad it.
I can't speak for everyone, butI literally was like, I am not
okay in this.
(19:47):
I need to not be seen.
I need to hide.
And that affects you in everyaspect of your life.
I really saw that in the Trumanshow.
I really felt like no matterwhat he did, he was always being
guided by that.
He was very unaware of it.
I wasn't aware of it for a whiletoo, I just kind of wondered if
other people felt that
Erin (20:06):
connection there.
And then, yeah, and also, yeah,with social anxiety too, it's
like different than narcissismbecause Yeah, you're not wanted
the attention, you actually wantthe opposite.
You wanna be not seen and youprobably avoided a lot of
different situations that youprobably would've wanted to be
part of, but it was probablyreally difficult.
Tanya (20:23):
Yeah.
I avoided a lot of life.
I missed out on a lot because ofit.
it's a very painful thing.
it's not something, I'm justtrying to say that I think
people Who had that would beable to understand.
And I think there was somethingabout, Truman when he was
realizing, oh my gosh, in theend he didn't know he was being
watched He sensed that his wholebehavior, his whole life, his
(20:44):
whole personality was shaped bythat.
That was something that reallykind of, yeah,
Erin (20:48):
and
Tanya (20:49):
rang Trueman with me, Truman,
Erin (20:51):
when he started to realize like, oh, wait a minute, she
said this.
Now I'm starting to be aware ofeverything.
people would almost say he washaving an existential thought or
stuff like that.
But he truly, you know, there'sso many things based in reality
too, because it's like, thisreally is happening and now he's
aware of it.
But then again, this is such anexample of gaslighting.
everyone's like, oh no.
(21:11):
It was just this, or thishappened.
you didn't really see thathappen.
this is because of this.
it probably did make him startquestioning like, okay, well I
have to just.
Be quiet and just continueacting like everything's okay
and just be happy.
Even though internally he'sprobably suffering.
Tanya (21:28):
Yeah, it's kind of like he knew of something that was
controlling this, and he knew hehad to hide something because of
that.
he started to see.
he went and changed his routineand tried to get into an
elevator it was like the set ofa production.
then they were like, oh man,let's put that there was an
elevator crash on the radio.
And He starts to see, wait aminute, this is really odd.
This is not okay.
(21:49):
Which I thought was kind ofstrange that he would have that
sense of reality.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I know that he would seethat some things are wrong, but
he had such a sense of normalcy.
Where did he get that normalcyfrom?
Because he grew up in thisworld.
So I guess that that kind of washard to see that.
But I guess just maybe seeingweird stuff like, what the heck
is that?
Erin (22:09):
that could be genetics too.
The producer or the director orwhatever, wasn't able to
control, he was able to createthis whole external thing.
Yeah.
But he still can't control whoTruman is.
Tanya (22:21):
Yeah.
I think that's a good point tothe, it's like kind of like a
nature versus nurture, kind ofthing.
there are certain things thatare built into us that are
needs, and you can't create anartificial environment and.
Say that, we're gonna make sureeverything's set up for this
person Because it doesn't workthat way.
(22:42):
Which may be also the same mottofor some people who base their
lives on social media.
Possibly, like you can put thatout there, but It's not
necessarily your real life, youcan craft it to be that, but in
the end, you have to feel,
Erin (22:58):
And even what you feel and live with the person, the people
that you follow that you'relike, I'm so real.
they're showing stuff that's rawyou know, like you'd see these
little quick reels but they'reonly showing you 50 seconds of
their life at a time.
you might feel like you reallyknow these people, and that's
something to think about too.
Tanya (23:12):
Yeah, for sure.
I was just gonna say, what didyou think of the ads in the
middle?
Like the wife?
Just kind of being like, look atthese knives.
Erin (23:19):
Aren't these the greatest knives ever?
What is that?
Product placement?
Just all of a sudden becausethey couldn't do commercials, so
that was probably theircommercial.
'cause it's on 24 hours a day,so they probably had to
eventually like, yeah, how arewe paying for this show?
Look at these.
And he's like, what?
then she got nervous talking to,
Tanya (23:36):
and then she broke character and then she was like,
help me.
And then he was like, who areyou talking to?
You know, out of context.
He just seems very, veryparanoid.
Erin (23:44):
yeah, if you just saw, and he didn't realize he was being
videoed, you'd be like, what alunatic.
Why is he talking to his wifethat way?
What's happening?
Tanya (23:51):
Yeah.
I just thought that was reallyfunny.
'cause she just kind of like allof a sudden is like these knives
and she just goes into it likeshe has to and keep knowing,
even if it sounds totally likeinsane.
Why?
Erin (24:02):
Why are you all of a sudden talking about these
knives and who are you talkingto?
crazy.
Tanya (24:07):
Yeah, it really is so nuts.
you feel for Truman because hemust feel so isolated because no
one in the world would have anexperience like he has had, and
when he decides to leaveChristophe is like, no, I can
give you everything you want,and you have everything here.
And he's just like, and so hejust signs off in his usual way,
like.
You know, goodnight or Good.
(24:29):
Good.
Good afternoon.
Good evening and goodnight.
if I don't see you kind ofthing, that his sign off because
he's just like, that's all I'mgiving you out the store and I'm
gonna go up these stairs.
And I just think of, the therapyafterwards.
And then, going to late
Erin (24:42):
But does he forgive them?
And then does he wanna have arelationship with these people
who have been part of his life?
Tanya (24:48):
Because he's probably gonna see them out in the real
world or maybe might try tocontact them.
Yeah.
The
Erin (24:52):
people who played parents, would he be upset
Tanya (24:54):
Like, would
Erin (24:54):
he wanna become, would he wanna be friends with him or the
person who was his best friend?
Is that like,'cause theyprobably really shared stuff, or
maybe it wasn't real on theactor side at all.
Yeah.
Tanya (25:04):
Or maybe it wasn't fully on Truman's side a hundred
percent.
Like, you know, because he hadto keep things away and he
discouraged him from travelingtoo, and from other, yeah, maybe
he was a little guard.
Maybe
Erin (25:14):
Truman was guarded.
the person who he fell in lovewith was the only person who is
like, oh, this person isn't justgiving me positive things or
negative, you know, filling mewith things to be afraid of.
She's actually saying like,listen.
None of this is real.
So that was the first person whoreally made him question things
(25:36):
in a different way.
And so it was probably veryfreeing for him.
Tanya (25:40):
Yeah.
She was the only person in thewhole world that seemed to care
to let him in on, Hey, this isyour actual reality.
he might question if peoplerecognized him and they were
fans He might be angry or upsetat that.
who can I trust who hasn't seenthis show?
who liked this and supportedthis or maybe wasn't aware.
so many issues to untanglethere.
Erin (25:59):
Yeah.
Or even the people who, maybethey did watch it because it's
been on for 30 years, but thenwhen they started to realize
like, oh, this is exploitation.
I'm gonna protest it or I'mgonna try to watch something
else, or was there nothing elseto watch?
Was that the only show thatpeople could watch maybe
Christophe was the only kind of,High-end producer because it was
on like, all the TVs, like onlike, you know, times Square,
(26:22):
you know, like it waseverywhere.
Yeah.
Tanya (26:24):
Yeah.
it probably gained Traction and,popularity when he was beyond
even as a baby, they would watchhim and he's just a baby.
Yeah.
Just squirming around.
That's not too fun.
You know, so they probably grewas he then some people probably
grew up with him too,
Erin (26:36):
It's like, I feel like I know him, but I was a baby when
he was a baby.
And you know, it's just kind oflike how.
People are with reality shows oreven soap operas It's like
people feel like they know thesepeople,
Tanya (26:48):
right?
Yeah.
And in a sense, they do know hislife, but they don't as well.
it's just all very complicated.
I think it's safe to say though,that Truman, once he left the
world, he would not have engagedin the social media boom.
Erin (26:59):
No, no techno.
Yeah, no techno.
Luddite.
Yeah.
Tanya (27:04):
He doesn't want any, technology.
it's nice, but sometimes youjust Because of real things he
can't, So I think the first timeI watched the Truman show.
at the end when Christophe wassaying, you can stay.
I thought maybe he was gonnastay and do something nefarious
or have some revenge But then Iwas like, that actually is.
Yeah.
The best way to just, yeah,yeah, to just exit and just say
(27:24):
nothing more.
And then it's also
Erin (27:25):
very telling too, like when he left, the show's
canceled,'cause all of a suddenit, went off, Then you'd see
people all of a sudden changethe channel.
it's not like people were thatdevastated that the show that
they've watched for 30 years isoff.
It's like, oh, let me watchsomething else.
It just shows how.
People are with, media, it'sjust, oh, it's gone.
(27:46):
let me just quickly change thechannel to something else, Who
cares if this person has beenexploited for 30 years
Tanya (27:53):
Yeah.
And that perspective may nothave even been right.
They may not have even beenaware of that.
Because they are just watchingsomething and it feels almost
like they're in on something andthey care about him maybe
potentially.
And they're kind of rooting forhim in different scenes.
so maybe they think, oh, wellwe're doing something good.
They don't really recognize thedamage that it's done and what's
on TV is something that, youknow.
(28:15):
It's here for us to watch.
Right?
Yeah.
there's, this is, this is a goodthing, you know, which of course
mm-hmm.
Is still, still a question evennow.
Um, even more so, but yeah.
Yeah.
So that, that is a lot ofpsychological stuff and we
probably could have even
Erin (28:28):
gone further into it, but I feel like we got a lot of the
main tenants, the basic layersof it.
Tanya (28:35):
Yeah, for sure.
So let us know what you think,if you've watched it or if.
You're, I'm, I'm curious.
I was telling Erin, I'm curiousif a person who's maybe gen, I
don't know, gen Z, maybe JenAlpha, I don't know, you
youngins, if you've watched themovie or if you would watch the
movie, what you'd think of it?
Just because I'm curious aboutsomebody who has grown up with
(28:55):
social media
Erin (28:56):
And what your perspective, that's interesting too.
so if you're someone whoseparents have been like, oh, I'm
gonna make a YouTube channel foryou.
or.
That you've had it yourself,your whole life, how do you view
this movie?
It might not be as shocking, orit might be like, oh my gosh, I
feel this.
I feel like Truman.
Tanya (29:13):
Yeah, for sure.
So yeah, it's a good movie.
Check it out if you haven't.
Good acting points.
Some very layered, and
Erin (29:19):
I think this was the first Jim Carrey movie that people saw
him not over the top, Over thetop actor, comedian,'cause
people, had always seen him inall his com.
Yeah.
Just being absurd.
Tanya (29:30):
yeah, for sure.
let's move on to our challengequestion.
this is a scenario question.
if you had the choice.
To have a salary of 2 millionannually.
However, the catch is that youhave to be willing to be live
streamed 24 7 within reason.
(29:51):
Okay.
Obviously not like going to thebathroom and stuff like that,
but it would involve your familyand people around you for
someone else's editing.
You do not have control overthat.
For 2 million a year, Would youdo that?
I don't know.
Erin (30:06):
How long is the contract for?
Tanya (30:07):
Let's say it goes by, I think standard is like what,
three years?
Erin (30:11):
Let's say?
Three years?
I guess it would have to be aconversation with the family and
just let'em know, like you canhide out in the your bathroom
like, you know, because theycan't film you in the bathroom.
But I don't know, it just seemslike it's not just me and it
would be anyone.
So it'd be like my own realityshow.
So I'd have a camera followingme all the time.
It'd probably be very invasiveand annoying for anyone around
(30:35):
me.
2 million a year would be reallynice though.
I don't know, having like alittle ethical issue right now,
trying to figure it out becauseI wanna say yes, but I also
don't wanna be followed 24 hoursa day because I like my alone
time and also don't want myfamily or.
oh, so that would mean as atherapist, my clients would get
videoed
Tanya (30:55):
that could probably, let's just say for this, that
would, or maybe I wouldn't be to
Erin (30:59):
be same one.
Right.
I'd be making 2 million a year.
Maybe you'd be on pause.
So they'd just video me sittingat a beach for two years?
Tanya (31:06):
don't know.
I,
Erin (31:07):
yeah, kinda wanna say yes, but, I'd have to like add like.
Change the, contract a littlebit?
kids don't have to be in it, andmaybe that would make it less
than a 2 million.
And then I would need to have,besides just going to the
bathroom, I would need to havelike other breaks.
(31:30):
Like I would wanna have some,I'd like to have.
Tanya (31:33):
This is just such a crappy question.
I do like how you're kind oflike, well, maybe this, maybe
like that.
Because I like to be able to belike, okay, you're doing a lot
of thought.
Erin (31:38):
I see that you're trying to escape from people, or you're
just taking a nap, or you'redoing gardening or something,
we'll leave you alone.
you get two hours or three hoursa day that we just don't have
the.
Camera on.
Tanya (31:51):
I think this is just what I know from watching
documentaries about old realityshows.
they kind of build in, you haveto have certain, Entertaining
moments.
you kind of have to ensure thatthose happen.
in this hypothetical, It wouldprobably be built in there
somewhere.
to be like, Hey, you have tohave something controversial.
So you have to do like,something like that.
Have to fake fight or something.
(32:12):
'cause Yeah, I'm, that's whatall
Erin (32:13):
of, like the real world, the first ones were always like,
oh, we hate all our roommates,but maybe they didn't really
hate everybody.
Tanya (32:21):
Yeah.
that would probably be anelement of it too.
but.
it sounds like, if thosestipulations were in there,
that, I mean, that might besomething it's only consider a
two year
Erin (32:29):
Why not then make, then I'd have 4 million.
Tanya (32:32):
Yeah.
It is a lot.
It is a lot.
I just don't think I could doit.
I just don't.
I very much need privacy.
Yeah.
I don't like people watch withyour social anxiety too, that
Erin (32:40):
would be like your nightmare.
Tanya (32:41):
Yeah.
It really is.
I absolutely can't Withouthaving time alone I would be
agitated and.
Nerve wracked just time to be inmy House.
With just my people.
you know, my husband and my dog,I also do not have the
consideration of havingchildren, I understand that's a
tough one, but, yeah, yeah.
(33:01):
it's a tough question because weneed money I think I'd rather
Get the$10 million,
Erin (33:05):
doing like a Beast Games type of thing, or survivor, you
know.
So it's just like you'reinconvenience For like a month
and then you get it.
Tanya (33:14):
That's a good one.
maybe I should have given anoption in that.
I was just thinking of that.
I'd rather be on Survivor.
Survivor, I would do SurvivorThe kids always say like,
Erin (33:21):
you should join Survivor.
I'd rather be on Survivor, acoconut only, you know,'cause
it's a lot of coconut that theyeat every day.
I think I'd rather do Survivoror do some kind of challenge
type of game.
And win.
and then that's it.
Tanya (33:38):
I like that adding that in as an option.
I think that's a betterquestion.
Yeah.
Let's go with that.
same.
I'd rather do a challenge.
Like I would go for it in achallenge, but having you be in
my face about my weird privatelife.
No, thank you.
Well, and also that, that also Ididn't, and also like not only
interrupting the
Erin (33:54):
family and the kids, but my pets, like I have a dog and
three cats.
They wouldn't wanna have acamera in their face either, and
then they'd have to record allthe cats throwing up all the
time.
You know, like, come on.
Yeah.
Tanya (34:04):
My Lucy would not Paige, she would just run and hide.
She'd like it for a little bit.
Erin (34:08):
be like, people are here to visit, and then she'd be
like, oh my gosh, they haven'tleft.
Tanya (34:12):
We need our privacy time.
She tries to kick them out.
So that is my very, okay.
Muddled question that I thenaltered.
Because Erin offered a betteralternative to it.
So you all think about that andwhat your answer would be
basically.
Would you?
I'd so much rather do bees gamesor Survivor than I think
Erin (34:30):
If I was in super good shape, like the Ninja Warrior,
some competition or something.
Oh yeah.
No, I could not hang, I wouldprobably lose off of the first
challenge.
That's because it's usuallysomething jumping and then
holding onto something for asecond, and I'd be like, goodbye
back into the water because Idon't have grip strength or I
can't do a pull up or anythinglike that.
(34:50):
no arm strength.
Tanya (34:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't, I mean, I'm trying toget it, I've been trying to
workout lately swimmer, butmaybe don't have it one day.
Yeah, but, so that's ourquestion.
you all think about that,although you probably thought
about game shows and things likethat.
I just thought it was aninteresting tie in to think
about we record most of ourlives, or a lot of people think
they do, but you don't reallyrecord.
You Might not want it recordedif it weren't in your control.
(35:14):
You know what I mean?
Without your say in the editing,that might be kind of tough.
But yeah.
So make sure you, like andsubscribe.
We are available on all socialsand on YouTube.
You will notice in the last 10minutes of this, my camera just
stopped working.
I got some issues going on, butthat's cool.
let us know what you think.
Give us a five star rating.
(35:35):
Tell everybody about us.
We would love that.
Let us know if you have anyquestions, ideas for future
shows.
Always very receptive to ourside.
I think the next one we'rerecording after this is office
space.
Office space.
Oh, I gotta refresh myself onthat, but that's a good one.
So we're still off the atom.
Yeah.
Track.
I am still, but I'm stilltrying.
Don't refresh.
we already planned
Erin (35:55):
our Halloween.
I'm still trying to convinceTanya to do Nikki for one of our
Halloween ones.
I really think little Nikki, Ithink it's HI.
I would like to hear from theaudience.
It is Little Nikki, a Halloweenshow.
'cause we're maybe doing HubbyHalloween for one, but I still
think little Nikki counts asHalloween.
Tanya thinks, I definitely thinkit counts as Halloween.
(36:16):
I just, can't remember it solong ago.
I just remember it was like,
Tanya (36:19):
you know what?
I will do it because.
it's something that, you know.
Yeah.
I just think if you wanna do it,and I watch horrible movies all
the time.
and who knows, maybe I'll thinkdifferently'cause I haven't seen
it in a while.
I'm putting it in my book.
Okay.
All right.
I agree.
Won't believe you.
Erin (36:34):
so it's after, well, we have it on recording when,
Tanya's like, I don't even knowwhy we're doing this movie.
Yep.
I didn't agree to this.
Tanya (36:41):
And you're like, yes, you did.
You rewind and you show me.
Yep.
I did it.
I did it.
So it's a verbal time because wegotta get back, back on it.
Back on
Erin (36:48):
the Adam.
Adam.
Alright guys.
Tanya (36:50):
Yeah.
Adam train will always be there,All right guys.
you take care and let us knowif, you wanna add anything or
forgot about anything, we lovehearing from you
Erin (36:59):
All right, everyone, have a great week.
I think that's it.
don't forget, stay wicked andkeep your mind well.
All right.
Have a great week.
Bye.
Bye guys.
Thanks so much for listeningtoday to the Wicked
Psychotherapist Podcast.
Be sure to like and follow us onApple, Spotify, and Amazon, or
(37:23):
wherever else you listen to yourpodcasts.
You are listening to WickedPsychotherapists, a podcast
where two psychotherapists showyou that taking care of and
learning about mental healthdoesn't have to be wicked hat.
Tanya (00:36):
Hey guys, it's Tanya.
Erin (00:37):
Hi, it's Erin and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapists.
Tanya (00:41):
So today we have a really, well, one of my
favorites, a movie that was inthe late nineties with Jim
Carey.
today we're gonna talk about themovie, the Truman Show.
that is a really interestingmovie.
I think from a therapeutic andmental health perspective
because there are so many themesin here that we can definitely
(01:01):
relate to.
And also so many modern daysocial media, kind of open
surveillance type of themes thatare very relatable to us.
So if you have not seen this, Itmay not be that big of a
surprise to you, or maybe it'llbe kind of cool to see from 1998
that this had already been aconcern or thought of, but it
(01:24):
was around a time, Erin, you hadpointed out.
About there was the, this wasthe time with a lot of reality
shows.
Erin (01:30):
was I saying?
Yeah.
Like it was, yeah,
Tanya (01:32):
cops was
Erin (01:32):
this was filmed in 98 I think.
So MTV's real world was stillgoing, road rules was on cops.
had just started like, this is,this is how long, you know,
like.
And then America's funny videojust started about that time,
maybe a little bit before that.
And then Road Rules, real WorldRoad Rules Challenge was about,
(01:55):
you know, that same time itstarted, survivor didn't start
yet.
Big Brother didn't start yet.
No American Idol, Kardashians,anything like that, or the Real
Housewives.
None of that was.
In reality yet when the TrumanShow came out.
Tanya (02:08):
if that's hard for you to remember, then, welcome to our
world, depending on how youngyou are or how much you were
paying attention during thattime.
But I'm pretty sure if you were,conscious during that time, you
were aware of it.
So it really was, a movie thatwas reflecting on some themes
that were about future worriesor themes that were.
(02:29):
coming up with reality shows andhaving so much being documented
of your life.
So this movie maybe was bornaround that.
Or maybe just the thoughts ofwhere it would go in the future
and just the fact that we hadthis technology kind of up and
coming, of course, nowhere nearwhat we have today, And this is.
stars, Jim Carrey, and he was ina more serious role.
(02:52):
This was not a funny role.
It was more kind of like he, hewas this central character who
was very innocent in all of thisand did not have any awareness
of, the outside.
Malice around him, He wasbasically a character
unknowingly within a realityshow.
so his whole life called theTruman Show, his name was
(03:12):
Truman, from birth until the endof the end of this movie, you
know, he was being filmed 24 7and everybody.
It was a huge hit.
People tuned in, all thecharacters and the neighborhood
where he lived, the world helived in was a big giant studio
set.
Erin (03:30):
Yeah.
Tanya (03:30):
and he was the only one that didn't know was on a studio
set.
This was his world.
It was
Erin (03:34):
24 7 streaming it.
While you're saying that, I wasalmost thinking of like Big
Brother, the show Big Brother.
Tanya (03:40):
you know, I
Erin (03:40):
remember when it first started you could watch it.
Live, like when people reallygot home computers and
everything.
you could watch it 24 hours aday that was the first of its
kind like, it's like reallydiving into, you know, everyone.
And so, but Truman show againwas ahead of the time.
Like it's just even talkingabout this, like all the
voyeurism of like, let's watchsomebody.
(04:03):
Nonstop.
Let's watch him brushing histeeth.
Let's watch him eat breakfast orhave conversations with his
neighbors.
I mean, it's so, it seems soboring, but for everyone else,
it's so interesting.
Everyone's glued to it.
That's all anyone wants towatch.
Tanya (04:18):
Well, that's a good point because now we go and we watch
reels of people
Erin (04:22):
Yeah.
Tanya (04:22):
Eating what they had for breakfast or a new routine on
how to floss your teeth, whichI've seen.
I've watched, not gonna lie.
these are things that, you know,they're not, uh, too far off
from what we still may want.
I think we as a people have anatural curiosity into what are
people's lives like, really, ifsomebody is not aware that
(04:45):
they're being filmed or livestreamed, and this is their
world.
Now we don't necessarily havethat unless it's with maybe the
kids in some of these showsbecause they can't really
consent to that.
But they're aware that they'reon camera.
But how aware are they isanother question.
that kind of, is similar to it,but I think that's why it was so
(05:07):
fascinating, because I thinkespecially at that point in
time, 1998, it was very muchlike.
what do people do when theythink no one's looking?
What are people's habits?
Are they like me?
Am I weird?
Are they weird?
and that was very fascinating tothem.
So, we meet Truman and he seemsto be just in his routine.
He's married to a woman who is.
supposedly a nurse.
(05:28):
she's an actress acting withinthe Truman Show, but he doesn't
know that, which I always foundso strange.
'cause of course, thinking in mypractical, you know, third
person view, like, how does shehave a life?
and she has to be a wife.
Well, I was think that while
Erin (05:42):
you're saying that too, I'm thinking like, what is their
contract for work?
Because it's probably alright.
You may have this to work forthe next 20 years, depending on
how long you're married, or like24 hours a day.
it's a big commitment to theiracting craft too.
Tanya (05:59):
They must have had huge, penalties if they broke that
contract.
that's basically like, you gottalive another life.
I mean, more so than acting youreally have to be in that with
someone.
So that it's really,
Erin (06:07):
yeah.
So it's a big commitment.
it would be really hard foreveryone who's in it, even his
dad and everyone else who's partof your life.
full time all day.
Tanya (06:16):
Yeah.
That's craziness.
And I mean, his mother.
Has to just be his mother andtake care of him, I know this is
all a movie and this didn'treally happen, but these are the
things that went through mymind.
yeah, so anyways, so we, we seethat Truman is really, he, he's
got this kind of boring, youknow, run of the mill.
(06:36):
insurance job, or something, youknow, generalized office work
one of those generic lookingoffice buildings.
He says hi to the neighbors thesame way every day.
They're like the picture perfectneighbors.
the houses are fairly similarvery idealized world.
He says hi to the same peopleevery day on the way to work.
Drives a.
family friendly car.
(06:57):
goes to his job and has a veryrun of the mill life.
people love to watch this to seeis there going to be something
different?
Is this all there is?
people are very curious aboutthat.
And again, I would compare thatto.
Social media today with somedifferences because people for
the most part know that they'refilming themselves, but maybe
they don't realize how Right.
(07:17):
What it is they're putting outor how much, or why, especially
if you grew up with this.
And it's just kind of a part ofyour life.
So that's really a question ofhow much do we edit our lives or
how much do we think we shouldput out there?
And even now on media, it's likealmost like
Erin (07:32):
That maybe we shouldn't put so much out, but it seems
like everyone went the opposite.
Like, this is the blueprint forwhat we should do.
Instead of like, Hey, maybe weshouldn't.
All beyond social media orrecord every aspect of our life
for everybody.
Tanya (07:47):
Yeah.
And like maybe what's the pointin that?
Or, you know, is there somethingthat makes you feel less alone
because of that, or somethingthat kind of normalizes
something for you?
again, I'm not saying anythingfor or against it.
I'm just, you know, kind of thequestions this movie brings up
Erin (08:02):
Yeah, it's the, oh yeah, I'm brushing my teeth too.
I go to work, I drive, I.
May have had similar experiencesin my childhood or teens or had
trouble making friends or hadthis one best friend my whole
life.
So there could be somesimilarities or their life can
be completely opposite of his,where it's like, my gosh, I live
(08:22):
in this.
apartment building and I don'thave a house, or I don't have a
relationship, or I don't feelsafe, So it's nice to see the
opposite.
Tanya (08:30):
Yeah, for sure.
and there's this kind of, thesetwo components that are
constantly driving Truman, andit's this, the thought of this
woman he met when he was in.
college, right?
Because it's all a movie set.
and, when he went to college andone of the extras, oh, they
probably had to sign.
Erin (08:48):
Yeah.
Tanya (08:49):
This actress broke through that and said he really
seemed to like her and shebasically was like.
I'm gonna bring him down, to thebeach where maybe the cameras
can't get to us and tell'emwhat's true.
she said this is all fake.
You're in a show.
And then, the crew sends outthis person, an actor pretending
to be your dad and is like, shegets like this when she doesn't
(09:10):
take her pills But that issomething that sticks in his
mind He really felt attracted toher, but she was taken off the
set and they pushed his wifetowards him, like, Hey, that's
the person we want you to bewith.
So he's driven by finding thatperson who told him the truth
that he senses is out there andhe's driven by this need to,
(09:31):
like, he keeps saying, I wanna,I wanna get outta here.
I wanna go and see beyond, youknow, this town and everything
in his life has been verytraumatically, discouraged, and
set up this way in the movieset.
For him not to go over bridgesor go over water, we're gonna
Erin (09:46):
drown in
Tanya (09:47):
With his dad drowning, it's like,
Erin (09:49):
because they know if he goes past the water, there's an
end.
he's gonna find out that It'sall not real.
So they can't afford to have himgo in the water at all.
Tanya (09:58):
Yeah.
they basically set up a lifelongtrauma for him when he went out
boating with his dad and the daddrowns in this big storm.
and it's reinforced by, hismother, the actress, who he
believes to be his mother,Saying, oh, I know you blame
yourself, but it wasn't yourfault.
Kind of passive aggressivelymaking him reimplant that idea
(10:18):
like it was your fault.
You were boating with your dadand he drowned when you were
there.
Which is so awful.
But too, you have to, I thinkyou wonder too,
Erin (10:25):
again, I know this is a show, but these two people who
were playing his parents, theywere playing his parents, since
he was a baby, they had to havesome connection to him.
Tanya (10:34):
Yeah.
Erin (10:35):
it had to not have been just a job.
Tanya (10:38):
sure.
Erin (10:38):
Unless it was, who knows how they're like, oh, this is a
really good paycheck.
I can keep playing this role.
Tanya (10:44):
Well, it sounds like the dad did because he was really
upset when he realized like, oh,they're making me drown.
They're cutting me off, And hetried to break back on the set
again, like that's how he foundhim.
So I think he felt somethingtowards that.
That's how they had toreintroduce him and be like, oh,
your father didn't actuallydrown.
Because then he had seen himwhen he broke back on and he was
(11:05):
like, but there's, theseinstances that start to break on
set, you know, around this timewhere he starts to notice
everything's in sync.
Everything is moving in a waythat is kind of around him.
He hears the radio mess up andhears some backstage production,
instructions instead.
And he's like, what?
they were radioing and saying,okay, he's going east on Main
(11:28):
Street or whatever.
And he was like,
Erin (11:30):
yeah,
Tanya (11:31):
that's me.
Erin (11:31):
Yeah,
Tanya (11:32):
so talk about paranoia.
My God, this world really wasset up for him, but this is also
mimicking if how somebody wouldfeel if they're very paranoid or
have delusions.
Right.
You know that.
Yeah.
If this weren't the case, yeah.
Be this weren't set up this way,I guess,
Erin (11:47):
after the show, it was dubbed the Truman Show syndrome,
where some people actually.
Started to get the paranoia.
Or have that sometimes wherethey feel as though they are on
a reality show,
Tanya (11:57):
Mm-hmm.
Erin (11:58):
So that's, yeah.
'cause it is probably, yeah, itis like a, because on the show
though, they did try to make itseem like, you're crazy.
You're just imagining this.
You didn't see the light fixturejust fall from the ceiling.
From
Tanya (12:08):
Talk about gaslighting.
They gaslit His whole life.
That's the most insane scalegaslighting I've ever heard
Erin (12:14):
After it's like, oh, wait a minute.
I really didn't have all thistrauma.
Or I did have trauma becausethey put trauma in my life, and
it's just, yeah.
Tanya (12:23):
It's like he really experienced these things, but
this wasn't real.
how do you connect that?
How do you not have somedisconnect in that, but need to
connect with that?
That is absolutely, I think, oneof the highest traumas out there
that would be so difficult towork with.
Erin (12:39):
it's almost like somebody who was raised as a person cult
or something like that.
How do you, get that out oftheir brain?
But yeah.
how do you do the therapy tohelp poor Truman?
Tanya (12:49):
Yeah.
Erin (12:49):
Is the producer, your dad, the director, the actor, but who
are really your best friends?
Do you have any friends?
Tanya (12:56):
Who am I like how, you know, because who he developed
up until this point.
Was who he is.
Who he is, but it's also kind offalse.
there's so many, any of hisdegrees, gosh, so many issues
for deprogramming on unraveling,any degrees of schooling.
Erin (13:10):
Is any of that real, or does he have to go back to
kindergarten?
Tanya (13:13):
he's having a Billy Madison moment.
You have to go Billy Madison.
there's Adam Sandler in there.
Erin (13:17):
Because was he just being taught by fellow actors or was
he actually having degrees
Tanya (13:22):
Well, I'm guessing it was probably just built around
whatever was needed andreinforcing.
they show that scene in theclassroom where the teacher's
like, what do you wanna be whenyou get older?
And little Truman is like, theyhave a flashback.
He's like, I wanna explore theworld.
And she's like.
Can't do it.
Everything's been explored, Soit's like kind of instilling,
all this,
Erin (13:41):
you'll stay here.
Ideas that they want to keep himthere and keep him.
No reason to leave thistraumatized Seashore town.
Tanya (13:47):
I think it was Whitehaven or something?
Or maybe I'm thinking ofsomething else, but they're
like, this has the best friend'salways like, where do you wanna
go?
This place has everything.
I've been everywhere.
This is it.
there's nothing to see.
You know, like everybody's justtrying to reinforce, stay here,
I think maybe, what you'relimited to is what you'll be
drawn to no matter what.
Like he had this inner fortitudethis sense of, I feel like
(14:08):
there's something more beyondthis.
something is really there, youknow?
and I think he's always had thatin him.
so the more people pushed backagainst it, he realized, well,
I'm limited.
I can't go over bridges or overwater.
I still really feel like there'ssomething there, which I think
is his Intuition of this just,doesn't feel right.
Like you said, as a human said,
Erin (14:28):
can video me and record me, but you don't know what's
going on inside my brain, Icould be trying to figure out,
Or trying to help myself of myfear of water or trying to
figure out what it looks like toleave this town To go back to my
dreams of being an explorer orwanting to learn about new
things.
Tanya (14:48):
Yeah.
And now that I think about it,he probably was feeling like he
had to really mask a lot of hisfeelings and, hide a lot of
things because they were sodiscouraged from a young age.
even though he may not haverealized that was wrong, he
probably still kept that andsaid like, well.
How I'm expected to be is verypleasant because that was what
(15:08):
was encouraged of him so that hecould be a good kind of
entertainment piece.
Erin (15:13):
Even the neighbors every day have a good day, good
evening, goodnight, you know,whatever.
Tanya (15:17):
Mm-hmm.
Erin (15:17):
You always wonder if he felt like, okay, this is what's
expecting me.
What if I don't wanna sayanything to them?
What if I just wanna get in mycar and go to work?
But it's almost like they'rethere waiting.
'cause they.
They, part of their role fortheir script is like, you need
to be there when he exits hishouse, so he can say that line
(15:38):
to you and the person driving onthe highway or whatever.
You have to be right where youknow he's gonna be, so Truman
can wave to you or say hello toyou.
but what if Truman wanted tojust be quiet or listen to the
radio or just wants to scream.
It's like he's so expected andconditioned from a young age,
like, oh, you're gonna bepleasant, you're gonna be happy,
(15:59):
you're gonna be, cheerful andnot really talk about your
problems.
Tanya (16:04):
Yeah.
And so I think he probablylearned to say okay, this is my
external personality, butinternally.
He'd really been struggling withit for a while and probably,
just always was questioning andthings felt off, but he didn't
quite know.
it sounds like he just was kindof holding that there and he
certainly had this.
Desire to search out that, thatextra he was making, collages of
(16:26):
her, like with her eyes she hadreally nice eyes, and he was
trying to find the perfect setof eyes for her Deep.
Feelings or wanted to explorethat more than he was able to.
But again, he was set up, hisfate was determined by the
studio and the screenwriting orhowever they thought his life
should go.
Which brings up an interestingquestion of fate?
Is your fate kind ofpredetermined?
(16:47):
Is it not, How do you makedecisions?
In his case, it was set up forhim, but he still even behind
the scenes as much as hepossibly could, even though he
was being filmed all the timeand people were trying to
dissuade him.
He still was making collages.
He still was trying to find thisgirl's name in the phone book
that the father falsely gave.
He was still trying to get tothe bridge and be like, okay, I
(17:09):
can do this, I can do this.
And then be like, no, I can't.
Erin (17:11):
I'm gonna try to learn how to get over my fear of water
too, without, it's almost like Ican't let anybody know that I'm
working on this.
so part of him, it is almostlike something was a driver for
him.
Something was leading him.
Tanya (17:25):
He had this internal drive and I think that's the
part he was really addressing.
he was like, you never had acamera in my head.
you didn't know that.
You don't know how I felt or thethings that I wanted to do just
because I did this with my lifeand decided to follow this path.
That doesn't mean that's true.
Erin (17:40):
A lot of people in the world, you know, like not just
Truman, but like a lot of timeswe feel like we know what's
going on with a person becausewe see what they do for a job,
or we see how their family is,or we see how they've acted in
their family unit, but we don'treally know exactly what's going
on with the person, especiallyif they're not sharing yet.
Tanya (17:58):
yeah, for sure.
I do wonder if there.
It seems like there would havebeen some sort of, social
anxiety, I related to this movieso well because not that Truman
would've had social anxiety, butthere was almost this feeling
when you have social anxiety.
You perceive that people arealways judging you and watching
(18:20):
and you're doing the wrong thingBeing perceived is painful.
When I watched this movie, Ireally related to that and I
think that also speaks to socialanxiety And I wonder if anybody
else kind of felt that.
As well that has social anxiety.
And, I don't mean like you'rekind of shy in social
situations, which I know is kindof what we think of as social
(18:41):
anxiety.
I mean like truly is, socialanxiety disorder.
Like really, really, a feelingof Not okay.
being seen.
Erin (18:48):
Like, you know, this store, this restaurant, this
classroom, everyone.
You're perceiving thateveryone's stopping to look at
you or notices if you make anoise or do anything.
it's difficult when you havesocial anxiety.
Tanya (19:02):
yeah.
Erin (19:03):
You're being videoed or feel like you're on your own
reality show.
Tanya (19:06):
Yeah, and I really wanna clarify that because this was
something that a therapist I sawin Florida a long time ago said,
it's kind of akin to narcissism.
I wanna say that to thattherapist out there.
I hope you're never ever sayingthat to somebody with social
anxiety disorder to the degreethat I had it, because that was
(19:27):
when I stopped seeing thatperson.
It is not a feeling of like, oh,people are looking at me and
admiring me.
It is almost like the sun, ifyou step outside, the sun burns
your skin.
And that is like anybody.
Yeah.
I mean, that's the degree that Ihad it.
I can't speak for everyone, butI literally was like, I am not
okay in this.
(19:47):
I need to not be seen.
I need to hide.
And that affects you in everyaspect of your life.
I really saw that in the Trumanshow.
I really felt like no matterwhat he did, he was always being
guided by that.
He was very unaware of it.
I wasn't aware of it for a whiletoo, I just kind of wondered if
other people felt that
Erin (20:06):
connection there.
And then, yeah, and also, yeah,with social anxiety too, it's
like different than narcissismbecause Yeah, you're not wanted
the attention, you actually wantthe opposite.
You wanna be not seen and youprobably avoided a lot of
different situations that youprobably would've wanted to be
part of, but it was probablyreally difficult.
Tanya (20:23):
Yeah.
I avoided a lot of life.
I missed out on a lot because ofit.
it's a very painful thing.
it's not something, I'm justtrying to say that I think
people Who had that would beable to understand.
And I think there was somethingabout, Truman when he was
realizing, oh my gosh, in theend he didn't know he was being
watched He sensed that his wholebehavior, his whole life, his
(20:44):
whole personality was shaped bythat.
That was something that reallykind of, yeah,
Erin (20:48):
and
Tanya (20:49):
rang Trueman with me, Truman,
Erin (20:51):
when he started to realize like, oh, wait a minute, she
said this.
Now I'm starting to be aware ofeverything.
people would almost say he washaving an existential thought or
stuff like that.
But he truly, you know, there'sso many things based in reality
too, because it's like, thisreally is happening and now he's
aware of it.
But then again, this is such anexample of gaslighting.
everyone's like, oh no.
(21:11):
It was just this, or thishappened.
you didn't really see thathappen.
this is because of this.
it probably did make him startquestioning like, okay, well I
have to just.
Be quiet and just continueacting like everything's okay
and just be happy.
Even though internally he'sprobably suffering.
Tanya (21:28):
Yeah, it's kind of like he knew of something that was
controlling this, and he knew hehad to hide something because of
that.
he started to see.
he went and changed his routineand tried to get into an
elevator it was like the set ofa production.
then they were like, oh man,let's put that there was an
elevator crash on the radio.
And He starts to see, wait aminute, this is really odd.
This is not okay.
(21:49):
Which I thought was kind ofstrange that he would have that
sense of reality.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I know that he would seethat some things are wrong, but
he had such a sense of normalcy.
Where did he get that normalcyfrom?
Because he grew up in thisworld.
So I guess that that kind of washard to see that.
But I guess just maybe seeingweird stuff like, what the heck
is that?
Erin (22:09):
that could be genetics too.
The producer or the director orwhatever, wasn't able to
control, he was able to createthis whole external thing.
Yeah.
But he still can't control whoTruman is.
Tanya (22:21):
Yeah.
I think that's a good point tothe, it's like kind of like a
nature versus nurture, kind ofthing.
there are certain things thatare built into us that are
needs, and you can't create anartificial environment and.
Say that, we're gonna make sureeverything's set up for this
person Because it doesn't workthat way.
(22:42):
Which may be also the same mottofor some people who base their
lives on social media.
Possibly, like you can put thatout there, but It's not
necessarily your real life, youcan craft it to be that, but in
the end, you have to feel,
Erin (22:58):
And even what you feel and live with the person, the people
that you follow that you'relike, I'm so real.
they're showing stuff that's rawyou know, like you'd see these
little quick reels but they'reonly showing you 50 seconds of
their life at a time.
you might feel like you reallyknow these people, and that's
something to think about too.
Tanya (23:12):
Yeah, for sure.
I was just gonna say, what didyou think of the ads in the
middle?
Like the wife?
Just kind of being like, look atthese knives.
Erin (23:19):
Aren't these the greatest knives ever?
What is that?
Product placement?
Just all of a sudden becausethey couldn't do commercials, so
that was probably theircommercial.
'cause it's on 24 hours a day,so they probably had to
eventually like, yeah, how arewe paying for this show?
Look at these.
And he's like, what?
then she got nervous talking to,
Tanya (23:36):
and then she broke character and then she was like,
help me.
And then he was like, who areyou talking to?
You know, out of context.
He just seems very, veryparanoid.
Erin (23:44):
yeah, if you just saw, and he didn't realize he was being
videoed, you'd be like, what alunatic.
Why is he talking to his wifethat way?
What's happening?
Tanya (23:51):
Yeah.
I just thought that was reallyfunny.
'cause she just kind of like allof a sudden is like these knives
and she just goes into it likeshe has to and keep knowing,
even if it sounds totally likeinsane.
Why?
Erin (24:02):
Why are you all of a sudden talking about these
knives and who are you talkingto?
crazy.
Tanya (24:07):
Yeah, it really is so nuts.
you feel for Truman because hemust feel so isolated because no
one in the world would have anexperience like he has had, and
when he decides to leaveChristophe is like, no, I can
give you everything you want,and you have everything here.
And he's just like, and so hejust signs off in his usual way,
like.
You know, goodnight or Good.
(24:29):
Good.
Good afternoon.
Good evening and goodnight.
if I don't see you kind ofthing, that his sign off because
he's just like, that's all I'mgiving you out the store and I'm
gonna go up these stairs.
And I just think of, the therapyafterwards.
And then, going to late
Erin (24:42):
But does he forgive them?
And then does he wanna have arelationship with these people
who have been part of his life?
Tanya (24:48):
Because he's probably gonna see them out in the real
world or maybe might try tocontact them.
Yeah.
The
Erin (24:52):
people who played parents, would he be upset
Tanya (24:54):
Like, would
Erin (24:54):
he wanna become, would he wanna be friends with him or the
person who was his best friend?
Is that like,'cause theyprobably really shared stuff, or
maybe it wasn't real on theactor side at all.
Yeah.
Tanya (25:04):
Or maybe it wasn't fully on Truman's side a hundred
percent.
Like, you know, because he hadto keep things away and he
discouraged him from travelingtoo, and from other, yeah, maybe
he was a little guard.
Maybe
Erin (25:14):
Truman was guarded.
the person who he fell in lovewith was the only person who is
like, oh, this person isn't justgiving me positive things or
negative, you know, filling mewith things to be afraid of.
She's actually saying like,listen.
None of this is real.
So that was the first person whoreally made him question things
(25:36):
in a different way.
And so it was probably veryfreeing for him.
Tanya (25:40):
Yeah.
She was the only person in thewhole world that seemed to care
to let him in on, Hey, this isyour actual reality.
he might question if peoplerecognized him and they were
fans He might be angry or upsetat that.
who can I trust who hasn't seenthis show?
who liked this and supportedthis or maybe wasn't aware.
so many issues to untanglethere.
Erin (25:59):
Yeah.
Or even the people who, maybethey did watch it because it's
been on for 30 years, but thenwhen they started to realize
like, oh, this is exploitation.
I'm gonna protest it or I'mgonna try to watch something
else, or was there nothing elseto watch?
Was that the only show thatpeople could watch maybe
Christophe was the only kind of,High-end producer because it was
on like, all the TVs, like onlike, you know, times Square,
(26:22):
you know, like it waseverywhere.
Yeah.
Tanya (26:24):
Yeah.
it probably gained Traction and,popularity when he was beyond
even as a baby, they would watchhim and he's just a baby.
Yeah.
Just squirming around.
That's not too fun.
You know, so they probably grewas he then some people probably
grew up with him too,
Erin (26:36):
It's like, I feel like I know him, but I was a baby when
he was a baby.
And you know, it's just kind oflike how.
People are with reality shows oreven soap operas It's like
people feel like they know thesepeople,
Tanya (26:48):
right?
Yeah.
And in a sense, they do know hislife, but they don't as well.
it's just all very complicated.
I think it's safe to say though,that Truman, once he left the
world, he would not have engagedin the social media boom.
Erin (26:59):
No, no techno.
Yeah, no techno.
Luddite.
Yeah.
Tanya (27:04):
He doesn't want any, technology.
it's nice, but sometimes youjust Because of real things he
can't, So I think the first timeI watched the Truman show.
at the end when Christophe wassaying, you can stay.
I thought maybe he was gonnastay and do something nefarious
or have some revenge But then Iwas like, that actually is.
Yeah.
The best way to just, yeah,yeah, to just exit and just say
(27:24):
nothing more.
And then it's also
Erin (27:25):
very telling too, like when he left, the show's
canceled,'cause all of a suddenit, went off, Then you'd see
people all of a sudden changethe channel.
it's not like people were thatdevastated that the show that
they've watched for 30 years isoff.
It's like, oh, let me watchsomething else.
It just shows how.
People are with, media, it'sjust, oh, it's gone.
(27:46):
let me just quickly change thechannel to something else, Who
cares if this person has beenexploited for 30 years
Tanya (27:53):
Yeah.
And that perspective may nothave even been right.
They may not have even beenaware of that.
Because they are just watchingsomething and it feels almost
like they're in on something andthey care about him maybe
potentially.
And they're kind of rooting forhim in different scenes.
so maybe they think, oh, wellwe're doing something good.
They don't really recognize thedamage that it's done and what's
on TV is something that, youknow.
(28:15):
It's here for us to watch.
Right?
Yeah.
there's, this is, this is a goodthing, you know, which of course
mm-hmm.
Is still, still a question evennow.
Um, even more so, but yeah.
Yeah.
So that, that is a lot ofpsychological stuff and we
probably could have even
Erin (28:28):
gone further into it, but I feel like we got a lot of the
main tenants, the basic layersof it.
Tanya (28:35):
Yeah, for sure.
So let us know what you think,if you've watched it or if.
You're, I'm, I'm curious.
I was telling Erin, I'm curiousif a person who's maybe gen, I
don't know, gen Z, maybe JenAlpha, I don't know, you
youngins, if you've watched themovie or if you would watch the
movie, what you'd think of it?
Just because I'm curious aboutsomebody who has grown up with
(28:55):
social media
Erin (28:56):
And what your perspective, that's interesting too.
so if you're someone whoseparents have been like, oh, I'm
gonna make a YouTube channel foryou.
or.
That you've had it yourself,your whole life, how do you view
this movie?
It might not be as shocking, orit might be like, oh my gosh, I
feel this.
I feel like Truman.
Tanya (29:13):
Yeah, for sure.
So yeah, it's a good movie.
Check it out if you haven't.
Good acting points.
Some very layered, and
Erin (29:19):
I think this was the first Jim Carrey movie that people saw
him not over the top, Over thetop actor, comedian,'cause
people, had always seen him inall his com.
Yeah.
Just being absurd.
Tanya (29:30):
yeah, for sure.
let's move on to our challengequestion.
this is a scenario question.
if you had the choice.
To have a salary of 2 millionannually.
However, the catch is that youhave to be willing to be live
streamed 24 7 within reason.
(29:51):
Okay.
Obviously not like going to thebathroom and stuff like that,
but it would involve your familyand people around you for
someone else's editing.
You do not have control overthat.
For 2 million a year, Would youdo that?
I don't know.
Erin (30:06):
How long is the contract for?
Tanya (30:07):
Let's say it goes by, I think standard is like what,
three years?
Erin (30:11):
Let's say?
Three years?
I guess it would have to be aconversation with the family and
just let'em know, like you canhide out in the your bathroom
like, you know, because theycan't film you in the bathroom.
But I don't know, it just seemslike it's not just me and it
would be anyone.
So it'd be like my own realityshow.
So I'd have a camera followingme all the time.
It'd probably be very invasiveand annoying for anyone around
(30:35):
me.
2 million a year would be reallynice though.
I don't know, having like alittle ethical issue right now,
trying to figure it out becauseI wanna say yes, but I also
don't wanna be followed 24 hoursa day because I like my alone
time and also don't want myfamily or.
oh, so that would mean as atherapist, my clients would get
videoed
Tanya (30:55):
that could probably, let's just say for this, that
would, or maybe I wouldn't be to
Erin (30:59):
be same one.
Right.
I'd be making 2 million a year.
Maybe you'd be on pause.
So they'd just video me sittingat a beach for two years?
Tanya (31:06):
don't know.
I,
Erin (31:07):
yeah, kinda wanna say yes, but, I'd have to like add like.
Change the, contract a littlebit?
kids don't have to be in it, andmaybe that would make it less
than a 2 million.
And then I would need to have,besides just going to the
bathroom, I would need to havelike other breaks.
(31:30):
Like I would wanna have some,I'd like to have.
Tanya (31:33):
This is just such a crappy question.
I do like how you're kind oflike, well, maybe this, maybe
like that.
Because I like to be able to belike, okay, you're doing a lot
of thought.
Erin (31:38):
I see that you're trying to escape from people, or you're
just taking a nap, or you'redoing gardening or something,
we'll leave you alone.
you get two hours or three hoursa day that we just don't have
the.
Camera on.
Tanya (31:51):
I think this is just what I know from watching
documentaries about old realityshows.
they kind of build in, you haveto have certain, Entertaining
moments.
you kind of have to ensure thatthose happen.
in this hypothetical, It wouldprobably be built in there
somewhere.
to be like, Hey, you have tohave something controversial.
So you have to do like,something like that.
Have to fake fight or something.
(32:12):
'cause Yeah, I'm, that's whatall
Erin (32:13):
of, like the real world, the first ones were always like,
oh, we hate all our roommates,but maybe they didn't really
hate everybody.
Tanya (32:21):
Yeah.
that would probably be anelement of it too.
but.
it sounds like, if thosestipulations were in there,
that, I mean, that might besomething it's only consider a
two year
Erin (32:29):
Why not then make, then I'd have 4 million.
Tanya (32:32):
Yeah.
It is a lot.
It is a lot.
I just don't think I could doit.
I just don't.
I very much need privacy.
Yeah.
I don't like people watch withyour social anxiety too, that
Erin (32:40):
would be like your nightmare.
Tanya (32:41):
Yeah.
It really is.
I absolutely can't Withouthaving time alone I would be
agitated and.
Nerve wracked just time to be inmy House.
With just my people.
you know, my husband and my dog,I also do not have the
consideration of havingchildren, I understand that's a
tough one, but, yeah, yeah.
(33:01):
it's a tough question because weneed money I think I'd rather
Get the$10 million,
Erin (33:05):
doing like a Beast Games type of thing, or survivor, you
know.
So it's just like you'reinconvenience For like a month
and then you get it.
Tanya (33:14):
That's a good one.
maybe I should have given anoption in that.
I was just thinking of that.
I'd rather be on Survivor.
Survivor, I would do SurvivorThe kids always say like,
Erin (33:21):
you should join Survivor.
I'd rather be on Survivor, acoconut only, you know,'cause
it's a lot of coconut that theyeat every day.
I think I'd rather do Survivoror do some kind of challenge
type of game.
And win.
and then that's it.
Tanya (33:38):
I like that adding that in as an option.
I think that's a betterquestion.
Yeah.
Let's go with that.
same.
I'd rather do a challenge.
Like I would go for it in achallenge, but having you be in
my face about my weird privatelife.
No, thank you.
Well, and also that, that also Ididn't, and also like not only
interrupting the
Erin (33:54):
family and the kids, but my pets, like I have a dog and
three cats.
They wouldn't wanna have acamera in their face either, and
then they'd have to record allthe cats throwing up all the
time.
You know, like, come on.
Yeah.
Tanya (34:04):
My Lucy would not Paige, she would just run and hide.
She'd like it for a little bit.
Erin (34:08):
be like, people are here to visit, and then she'd be
like, oh my gosh, they haven'tleft.
Tanya (34:12):
We need our privacy time.
She tries to kick them out.
So that is my very, okay.
Muddled question that I thenaltered.
Because Erin offered a betteralternative to it.
So you all think about that andwhat your answer would be
basically.
Would you?
I'd so much rather do bees gamesor Survivor than I think
Erin (34:30):
If I was in super good shape, like the Ninja Warrior,
some competition or something.
Oh yeah.
No, I could not hang, I wouldprobably lose off of the first
challenge.
That's because it's usuallysomething jumping and then
holding onto something for asecond, and I'd be like, goodbye
back into the water because Idon't have grip strength or I
can't do a pull up or anythinglike that.
(34:50):
no arm strength.
Tanya (34:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't, I mean, I'm trying toget it, I've been trying to
workout lately swimmer, butmaybe don't have it one day.
Yeah, but, so that's ourquestion.
you all think about that,although you probably thought
about game shows and things likethat.
I just thought it was aninteresting tie in to think
about we record most of ourlives, or a lot of people think
they do, but you don't reallyrecord.
You Might not want it recordedif it weren't in your control.
(35:14):
You know what I mean?
Without your say in the editing,that might be kind of tough.
But yeah.
So make sure you, like andsubscribe.
We are available on all socialsand on YouTube.
You will notice in the last 10minutes of this, my camera just
stopped working.
I got some issues going on, butthat's cool.
let us know what you think.
Give us a five star rating.
(35:35):
Tell everybody about us.
We would love that.
Let us know if you have anyquestions, ideas for future
shows.
Always very receptive to ourside.
I think the next one we'rerecording after this is office
space.
Office space.
Oh, I gotta refresh myself onthat, but that's a good one.
So we're still off the atom.
Yeah.
Track.
I am still, but I'm stilltrying.
Don't refresh.
we already planned
Erin (35:55):
our Halloween.
I'm still trying to convinceTanya to do Nikki for one of our
Halloween ones.
I really think little Nikki, Ithink it's HI.
I would like to hear from theaudience.
It is Little Nikki, a Halloweenshow.
'cause we're maybe doing HubbyHalloween for one, but I still
think little Nikki counts asHalloween.
Tanya thinks, I definitely thinkit counts as Halloween.
(36:16):
I just, can't remember it solong ago.
I just remember it was like,
Tanya (36:19):
you know what?
I will do it because.
it's something that, you know.
Yeah.
I just think if you wanna do it,and I watch horrible movies all
the time.
and who knows, maybe I'll thinkdifferently'cause I haven't seen
it in a while.
I'm putting it in my book.
Okay.
All right.
I agree.
Won't believe you.
Erin (36:34):
so it's after, well, we have it on recording when,
Tanya's like, I don't even knowwhy we're doing this movie.
Yep.
I didn't agree to this.
Tanya (36:41):
And you're like, yes, you did.
You rewind and you show me.
Yep.
I did it.
I did it.
So it's a verbal time because wegotta get back, back on it.
Back on
Erin (36:48):
the Adam.
Adam.
Alright guys.
Tanya (36:50):
Yeah.
Adam train will always be there,All right guys.
you take care and let us knowif, you wanna add anything or
forgot about anything, we lovehearing from you
Erin (36:59):
All right, everyone, have a great week.
I think that's it.
don't forget, stay wicked andkeep your mind well.
All right.
Have a great week.
Bye.
Bye guys.
Thanks so much for listeningtoday to the Wicked
Psychotherapist Podcast.
Be sure to like and follow us onApple, Spotify, and Amazon, or
(37:23):
wherever else you listen to yourpodcasts.
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