June 25, 2025 • 43 mins
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Can therapy really look like what we see in Anger Management with Adam Sandler and Jack Nicholson? In this laugh-out-loud episode of Wicked Psychotherapists, Erin and Tanya—two licensed therapists—take a wicked deep dive into the film’s chaotic version of “treatment.”
We’re talking unethical therapy, people-pleasing personalities, power dynamics, and the real psychology behind why Adam Sandler’s character avoids conflict (until he doesn’t).
From the bizarre exposure techniques to the ridiculous boundary-blurring moments, we’re breaking down what this movie gets wildly wrong about mental health care—and the surprising bits it gets kinda right.
🎬 Whether you're a therapist, a Sandler fan, or just love analyzing movies through a mental health lens, this one’s for you.
✨ Plus, we share how this all connects to birth order, childhood trauma, and whether we could ever be concierge therapists like Jack Nicholson’s character (spoiler: we’re not moving into anyone’s house anytime soon).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
You are listening to WickedPsychotherapists, a podcast
where two psychotherapists showyou that taking care of and
learning about mental healthdoesn't have to be wicked hat.
Tanya (00:32):
Hey guys, it's Tanya.
Erin (00:34):
Hi, it's Erin and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapists.
Yeah, so we are continuing onour binge.
We are like a rolling stone.
We just love Adam Sandler and asyou can tell, we are obsessed
with him.
So this week, we're gonna betalking about his movie Anger
Management.
I don't know why I feel the needto announce that.
(00:55):
Like a radio, an old schoolradio host.
But you got very, you got veryserious.
It's like, and today we'll betalking about anger management.
I dunno what the heck I wasthinking.
but yeah, so anger management.
this is a nice little gem of afilm.
I like it.
It was, early two thousands,like 2003.
but it, of course is really,great because it has Jack
(01:17):
Nicholson.
I mean, come on.
And he is funny and he is, inthe lead role.
But it really, I think Adam wasreally stretching out his wings
here and kind of like, okay,different types of comedy.
And this was really.
tied in with our podcast becauseit involves doing a type of
(01:37):
therapy for anger management,which is bizarre.
the mode itself is really on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
it's pretty unconventional.
Yeah, it's, so if you have notwatched this again, you all know
this.
Spoilers are, we're justdiscussing the whole movie.
So if you're calling here, it'sgonna be, and it's well over 20
years that it's been out.
Maybe pause, watch it come backif you feel like you need to see
(01:59):
it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's a funny, it is like afunny movie.
It's very, very, I think.
not very insightful towardstherapy in general because if,
if my therapist did this to me,I'd be pissed.
Yeah.
but it's, it's just not, a greatthing.
Yeah.
The ethical boundaries are,maybe they're a little different
(02:19):
for Dr.
Rydel than it is they are foranyone else, but I think so.
I think so.
I think he's in an alternateuniversity and he's Jack
Nicholson, so he just can dowhatever the heck he wants.
Mm-hmm.
But, Yeah, so, so we see, wemeet, we meet Adam's character,
David, what is it, Nik orsomething?
the first scene we see is himwhen he's younger.
(02:41):
He is crushing on this girl.
He is at this like block partyin Brooklyn and he's like, oh,
you know, You know, he's kind ofwatching her and she comes over
and she's like, wanna play truthor dare blah, blah, blah.
He gets an opportunity, shedares him, like, kiss me.
And then he gets pants by theneighborhood bully, Arne
Shankman.
And so he's humiliated and kindof sets the tone for his
(03:02):
personality that we see in hislife where he's very much walked
upon.
he's very meek and does notstick up for his needs.
People pleasing, You know, he's,even in his job in the
beginning, he's going off tothis, he was invited by his boss
to come to some like, conferenceor meeting or something in St.
Louis and he's calling his bosssaying, oh, thank you so much
(03:25):
for the opportunity.
And his boss just like hangs upon him as he is going to the
force, just doesn't even care.
And he's still pretending likehe's talking to him and his
girlfriend.
He hung up on you already,didn't he?
And he is like, gosh, she knowshim so well.
You know, she's like, you,you're just gonna continue to
put on the show.
So we, we really see anestablished, definitive people
(03:46):
pleaser, right?
You know, someone who is, isafraid to push boundaries, but
also needs to put on a show forother people to make sure things
are okay.
And his girlfriend Linda, who'splayed by Marissa Tome, who is
just.
You know, beautiful and neverages.
No, she doesn't.
I mean, well then, then she wasyoung, but, you know, but she
(04:07):
is, yeah, now she's like, stilllooks like that age crazy.
Yeah, I know.
I had to Google her.
I mean,'cause of course everyoneknows her.
Well, I don't know if everyoneknows her, but from my, my
cousin Vinny.
I mean, like, that's just like,you know, in Yeah.
Everything else.
I mean, she's just great andyeah, she, she plays, she's,
she's very good as hisgirlfriend in this.
she definitely balances him outvery well.
(04:28):
you know, but she definitely isin, on, on seeing that he's,
he's being held back in lifewith this personality trait.
yeah, and then we start to seethat he, on, on the plane.
He, after having an incident ofpeople pleasing, this guy sits
in a seat and is like, go findanother seat.
Nah, just go sit in my seat kindof thing.
(04:49):
And then we see Dr.
Rydell like, oh, over here.
Come on over here.
And so instead of confrontingthis guy, he is like, oh, I'm
gonna just take the easierroute.
You know, he has a lot ofavoidance.
I would say some social anxiety.
he's kind of, afraid to confrontthat.
Tanya (05:03):
Mm-hmm.
Erin (05:04):
confront people.
Yeah.
He's, yeah, he's kind of stuntedand just, but really high
anxiety too.
And it's interesting too,because once we know.
The premise of the movie, whichagain, we're gonna be spoiling
the whole movie for you guys,but it's every, that's what we
do.
So pretty much, you startlooking at Dr.
Buddy ride's or Buddy, everysingle thing he does, he's
(05:27):
trying to trigger him.
He is trying to get Dave to.
Have some sort of response.
Even the first time when they'reeven on the plane and they're
both on the armrest and buddy'slooking at him, he is like,
that's my room.
That's you're on my side.
You're doing this.
Or, when he is like reallyobnoxious laughing at the movie.
(05:48):
It's just like every singlething.
He is like, come on, I'm tryingto give this kid a breakthrough,
or just trying to, let's notmake it a whole two week ordeal,
It's interesting.
Yeah, he's really laying out thetraps from him.
He is like, come on, I'm tryingto get you to react, trying to
get you to confront this.
And, you know, because we, youknow, we do realize that from
(06:08):
the beginning, this is a setupthat was actually, placed by his
girlfriend.
Yeah.
Very much, that spoiler alert.
But, yeah, so it, it startsright from the plane and then
he, he all of a sudden getsarrested for.
Quote, assaulting, what do youcall it, stewardess or airplane
hostess.
Yeah.
Flight attendant.
Flight attendant.
Yeah.
Flight hostess.
I dunno, what, what year is thisat a restaurant?
(06:31):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
I'm still, I'm living in thefifties.
Yeah, those women.
Yeah.
It's funny too,'cause like whenI first was watching it, I had
forgot that I watched this moviebefore and so I.
Completely forgot everythingthat happened.
So I was like, what?
I was like, oh my God.
I don't even remember when heassaulted her.
Like how did he, how did she endup with that arm thing?
(06:54):
Like I was like, not realizingthat maybe it didn't really
happen that way, but it is justreally funny.
Yeah, yeah.
We kinda learn If you're a firsttime watcher of it, you're not
aware that this is all a setup,right.
And that it's for buddy to beable to confront these things.
it just gets more and moreridiculous.
he gets arrested and getsordered to be in the care of,
(07:14):
Dr.
Or no, he doesn't get.
Ordered to be in the care then?
Not at that point, the firsttime it's just, she's like,
well, you need to do some angermanagement classes.
He happens to see a book of Dr.
Riels and he's like, oh, he doesthis.
He could vouch for me.
He could just sign off on this.
Yeah.
This is the guy from the plane.
It'll be easy.
And then he's like, well justcome to one so we could say you
(07:36):
could hang out.
And so he is like, oh, cool,okay.
I'll just get this done.
And over some misunderstanding.
And again, even just the factthat he doesn't fight for
himself in this, because I, Iwas thinking, wow, if this grave
injustice of being like, oh mygosh, like I did not assault
someone and now I have to goand.
(07:57):
Do anger management classes, andthis is not me, and I wasn't
raising my voice and I wasclearly, I was tased.
It was like whisper talkinglike, can I, can I have a
headset?
Can I have this?
Yeah, sir, why are you yellingat me?
Yeah, and they're all like, keepyour voice down.
He's like, what?
(08:17):
Am I crazy?
Definitely being gas, like Ohyeah.
The whole crew, which we findout we're all paid by buddy
later on, but everyone is like,yeah, completely gaslighting him
through this whole thing.
He's like, wait a minute.
Am I yelling?
Do I have anger?
Anger issues?
Which is, is totally likehilarious in this setting.
But obviously, you know, if thiswere happening in real life,
(08:40):
which I would hope it wouldn't,I'd hope no therapist would do
this.
Yeah.
but you know, it, it is prettyhilarious because you're like,
okay, this guy was totally justconvinced of something.
I just remember thinking like,wow, to go to court, to have a
charge on my record, no, I wouldbe fighting that and be like,
no, you need to show me moreevidence.
I would at least feel betterabout it.
(09:00):
I don't know.
And I think he's just so used tobeing numb and kind of being
like, okay, I need to just getthrough this and this will just
kind of get it out of the way,you know, kind of thing.
He's kind of always at thatlevel where it's like too much
stress and he just needs to likedo the thing to like mm-hmm.
Get over it and just move on.
Yeah.
Kind of thing.
And then even his lawyer, KevinNeland is just kind of like the
worst lawyer.
(09:20):
It's just like, okay, not reallyfighting for him.
It just, you know, it's justkind of.
You know, poor, poor Dave Adamis just like putting all his
faith into him, and it's justlike, all right, here's another
charge against you.
Here's some more stuff.
And I don't think he was in onit.
I think that the lawyer wasactually just a lawyer.
Like I don't think he's anincompetent lawyer.
(09:42):
Yeah.
Incompetent public defender.
Yeah.
I mean, I, was he a publicdefender or was that clear?
I, I, I think, think he was, Ithink he was, he probably was.
'cause I'm sure Dave didn't makea lot of money, you know, in his
job.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was like an executiveassistant, basically so, so then
he goes to the anger managementgroup and he's like sitting on
the outskirts.
He's thinking like, oh, I'm justgonna observe And then he gets
(10:02):
invited into the circle becausehe's kind of like, well, why
don't you come join us likethis?
This is a group of people.
Who are all very much used to,you know, getting upset maybe
because other people are, arewatching them or judging them,
or they feel judged and sothey're not going to accept, and
I think Dr.
Rydel knows this, like they'renot going to accept him being on
(10:23):
the outside of this.
Yeah, yeah.
And so they, they naturally,they kind of are like, Hey, you
gotta come over here and like bea part of the group.
And, he starts to learneverybody's.
Stories and he's kind of likethinking like, I don't belong
here.
You know?
He even said like, oh, I'm justhere for one session.
And they're like, oh, so youdon't have anger issues.
I thought it was really funnythat we see a lot of the same
(10:45):
people that we've seen in Mr.
Deeds and Water Boy, you know,we see the guy, he is like, I'm
very sneaky.
You know, I'm very bad with thenames.
But then we have the other, theguy, he always has like the lazy
eye.
Yeah.
So those characters were there.
we always forget the lazy eye,like, who are you?
But he's, a staple.
So we love him, but we don'tknow his name.
(11:08):
it's a pretty funny scene.
You kinda learn this cast ofcharacters that you realize
like, oh man, you know, he'slike, thank God he's thinking
like, I'm not gonna have to bearound them long.
But then he realizes like, oh,you know, because the doctor's
like, afterwards, you don't needthis many sessions.
I'm gonna double it.
I'm gonna recommend double.
And he is like, well, whoa.
What?
Then he kind of is like, I cansee that you have, you're the
(11:29):
type of person that's like aticking time bomb that will go
off and be a cashier and shooteverybody that bothers you, kind
of thing.
Yeah.
That's the example he uses.
it's so true though.
It's kind of like he's somebodythat is being pushed around and
may possibly come out and just.
Explode one day.
And you know, in a way, I guessthat is anger management, but we
(11:49):
were talking before in ourpregame session, and I was
saying like, I don't think it'snecessarily anger.
I think this is like boundaries.
This is people pleasing.
This is not, not being able tocommunicate your needs and being
given this, Impression that yourneeds will not be met.
So you're just gonna kind of getaround them in a way.
And I think that pattern was setwith maybe, you know, like the
(12:10):
bullies when he was in thatopening scene with Arkins.
yeah.
So everything was set with histrauma or whatever happened, you
know, like the whole block partysaw everything and mocked
everything.
Even the adults.
Even the little girl he wasgonna kiss and everybody, So I
think that trauma probably madeit like, ugh, I have to be
(12:30):
invisible, I have to be meek.
I have to obey the rules.
I don't wanna draw any attentionto myself, you know?
And so that's definitely notconfronting people.
That's letting people push youaround.
And so that's definitely whatBuddy and his girlfriend.
We're trying to get Dave out ofgetting him to start confronting
(12:55):
people, start to have a voice tobe seen, to be loud.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
I, you know, I really kind of, Irelated to, Dave.
David?
Dave.
Dave.
Yeah.
Dave.
Dave.
because I, I definitely feltthat way.
I, and I don't know if you feltthis way as just being the
youngest of a brood of children.
I think that that can sometimescome in, that can sometimes be
(13:16):
the personality of, of ayoungest of, of a lot of kids,
where there is some dysfunctionbecause there's the, the.
The kind of, I think working,you know, I personality type for
like the youngest in pop cultureis very much like, oh, they're
the clown, they're the baby.
They've been babied kind ofthing.
Yeah.
But I think in our experiences,and I don't, I don't wanna speak
(13:37):
for you, but like I, I relatedto this and kind of feeling
like, you know, you kind of get,you get kind of bullied, you
know?
Mm-hmm.
Just because you're the youngestone there, it's just kind of
Yeah.
Natural and maybe you take in tokind of be like, oh, I'm going
to, you know, maybe, you know,get louder.
Or maybe you take thatinternally and you're kind of
like, oh, maybe to like, not.
(13:58):
You know, anger this sibling orwhatever, I'm gonna kind of do
this or kind of walk aroundthat.
And we had other factors growingup.
I realize, you know, thatcomplicated, well, I know my
role, like, you know, when youlook at the role, I think my
role often was like thepeacekeeper or, trying to make
everyone happy.
So probably very much like that,you know, I had siblings that
were very.
(14:18):
Loud and took up a lot of energyand space.
And then I had others that, youknow, just normal.
But I, I feel like I, yeah, alot of times it was trying to be
quiet or invisible or thepeacekeeper.
Yeah, I just thought that waskind of, interesting.
I wonder if other youngestchildren, because.
I feel whenever I read about inpop culture, you know, those
(14:41):
personality types and howthey're supposed to be with the
oldest, the middle, theyoungest, I think that's very,
very slim to none.
That's very much in a, anidealistic Yeah.
High functioning family that'svery healthy and, and cared for.
And I, I don't think we see thatmuch of it any anymore.
And so I think that.
I just wanted to put that outthere that I think that that's,
(15:03):
you know, kind of something andthat, and that probably is other
things, like there's been nochildhood trauma, you know, like
two parent home or, no addictionor no other things happening.
No abuse, physical or verbal orwhatever.
You know, like who knows whatelse has happened throughout
childhood.
You know, if you have like thisstereotypical perfect childhood,
(15:25):
maybe you would have thoseroles.
this role, right?
Yeah, exactly.
And it's very outmoded,outdated, and not thought about,
from.
A non perspective.
Yeah.
Of the youngest child, becauseit's always thought the oldest
is the golden, the middle isforgotten.
The youngest is the jokester.
Like that's what they expect.
And that's not what happens.
And then people feel like, oh,wait, I didn't have my role.
(15:48):
Correct.
Because I'm supposed to be themost loved because I'm the
oldest, or I'm supposed to beforgotten because I'm the
middle, but I get the mostattention and I'm the middle, or
I'm supposed to be the jokesterand I'm the youngest and I'm
not, you know, so it's very,it's.
It's hard, hard when you havethose roles that are supposed to
be assigned.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
I never related to the, like, Iwas always like, I'm supposed to
(16:09):
be the jokester and the carefreeone, and the person who doesn't
feel like I, I don't know ifthat came across in my, in my
family.
I don't think, I think I wasjust very invisible and kind of
feeling like trying to avoidlandmines.
That was the way I always feltinternally.
and my actions were very much indoing things and avoiding things
because of that.
Tanya (16:27):
Yeah.
Erin (16:27):
Um, so yeah, I just, I, I can see some, some kind of
crossover in that and, um,wonder if anybody else kind of
has that experience.
But anyways, um, back to, backto anger management.
Yeah.
Back to Adam or Dave orwhatever.
Adam, Dave.
Dave, Adam.
he's always Adam no matter what.
He's always Adam.
He definitely brought, like Imentioned, Water boy and
(16:49):
everything.
I'm sure you saw a bunch of thewater boy expressions and like
when he body slammed the, monk,his old bully.
I was like, okay.
Yes.
He, he's got like, he definitelyfits in elements.
He, the singing style, the wayhe's kind of, he has a very
(17:11):
particular like.
Voice and cadence in the waythat he sings things.
When, when Dr.
Rydel was like, oh, or Buddy waslike, oh, sing, I feel pretty,
that will calm you down.
And like the way he was justlike, I feel pretty, like he
just kind of gets into like hislittle mode, you know?
But I, I just, yeah.
I love those, those points whenyou see them, because if you're
(17:33):
an Adam fan, you, you, for sureare, are gonna recognize that.
But I was laughing at that whenhe stopped him in the middle of
the bridge and was just like,you need to sing.
Like this is a song.
Everyone's like, move it.
Jerk a part.
I was, I was cackling at.
Yeah.
and so then we start to realizethat, Dr.
Reel's methods are really,really inappropriate, but kind
(17:54):
of hilarious.
Yeah.
And sets up this whole, deeply,deeply wrong and unethical
exposure therapy type ofprocess, which in the end, of
course it was effective.
But, you know, it's notsomething We could ever really
do and get away with.
Right.
I think that would be very, verydifficult.
Maybe a coach could do that andbe like, I'm gonna bill you for
(18:15):
whatever this amount every day,and they could For somebody
who's really wealthy.
But, yeah, so he moves in andhe's like, I, I'm here.
My method is completewraparound.
Like, you know, I'm here twentyfour seven.
I have phone taps.
I'm here, I sleep here, Imonitor you.
I go everywhere you go.
It's just like his parasite, youknow, for the next, 30 days or
whatever it was.
(18:36):
Which is just overwhelming.
And even to the point where he'ssleeping.
He doesn't have his couch.
So he is like, well, hem gonnasleep, I to sleep in bed with
you.
And then he is like, oh my God.
You could see Adam's face.
He's so uncomfortable.
And again, these are allscenarios where it's like.
You should exert yourboundaries.
You should be like, no.
Heck no.
You're staying in a hotel.
(18:58):
You're not staying in my house.
You're not sleeping in bed withme.
You know, like, so there, therewas so many times Dave could
have, and I think Buddy wastrying to say like, I'm gonna do
all this to get a reaction tosee if he's gonna have any sort
of, not even just anger, just.
(19:19):
You know, just show like, Hey, Ican, I can have this little bit
of self-confidence and just tellyou what, what I feel without
worrying what the outcome'sgonna be.
Yeah.
Although, you know, when I thinkabout it though, in that
scenario where Dr.
Rydell kind of has a power overhim, right.
To sign or not sign Or recommendjail time.
I think there's definitely apower dynamic there.
(19:40):
I know this is what we do,right?
We psychoanalyze, But it's like,almost like it's building and
building, and I think that'spart of the experiment of this
Of this like exposureexperiment.
Yeah.
And at first the relationship isjust kind of like, okay, well
you're kind of coming into mygroup.
Then we go back to court andthen, oh wait, now I have to
live with you, then back tocourt.
You know, it just like keepsgetting worse and worse You
(20:00):
don't know what's gonna happenand it's just, just trying to,
You know, so then the stakes arehigher and higher and it's like,
I have to still do what thiscrazy doctor is recommended and
I do.
Yeah.
And again, I totally, I feelthat with, with, Dave, you know,
and kind of like sometimesyou've gotten into this kind of
(20:22):
power dynamic with someone andit feels like, oh, if I start
exerting a boundary now, likethey were my friend and I told
them like this kind of secret orsomething.
And maybe I don't want them totell that, so I have to kind of
please them and not anger themAnd not upset them.
And it kind of becomes like anabuse dynamic.
I've had that with, a goodfriend of mine for a long time
(20:42):
and kind of recognize that.
Something where, you know, inthis movie, obviously it's just,
it's something funny because youjust kind of see these
ridiculous things that you'relike, okay, nobody would put up
with this.
But, you know, like, you know,in terms of like sleeping in bed
with him and then saying, Isleep naked, and then spooning
him, and instead of like saying,this is, this is, I, I need to
(21:03):
find another person.
He's like always kind of tryingto avoid confrontation.
Always.
Yeah.
Then also if you think on theother end too, like Buddy Ryde,
like he is in it like, so, likehe is 100% invested in his
clients.
Yeah.
so if you see it the other way,it's like, all right, Linda paid
me for a service.
(21:24):
I am going to make sure thisperson.
Learns how to confront peopleand learns his self worth.
Tanya (21:33):
Mm-hmm.
Erin (21:34):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, it, it.
He's, Dr.
Rydell is persistent.
He really is.
I mean, he really, and he setsup and he works out, you know,
all this network of people Yeah.
to help him and support of evenincluding a judge and you know,
all the people on the airline.
And, the friend who he hires asthe actress, Heather Graham,
(21:55):
when they're in Boston.
but yeah, starting from, youknow, when he moves in and he's
like, you know, I gotta goeverywhere with you.
He starts to realize, oh, thatmeans literally everywhere.
He's like, oh, well I'll seeyou, I'm gonna work.
And he is like, oh, well we'regoing to work, you know, kind of
thing.
And he is like, oh my gosh.
And so he is realizing thesituation he's in and he is
like, oh my God, he, he's comingto work.
(22:15):
And then he goes in and he makesthings.
Like, he makes him late and hemakes things really, you know,
awful with his boss to kind ofconfront him because his boss
is, his boss is pretty abusive.
Yeah.
He like calls him names andhe's, he's really, you know, he
steals his ideas.
Caught ace.
Yeah.
And he is, yeah.
Doesn't really, you know, ajerk.
Yeah.
Give him credit or just realizehis self for the husky cat line.
(22:38):
God, I loved that so much.
I, I think it's so funny thatthe.
Fat Cat was in like a littlestarter jacket or like a big
sweatshirt.
Just like a big fat kid.
Yes.
And like the little, the littleberet and like would just sit
there, meatball would just sitthere like it's a little
meatball.
but yeah, I think that, youknow, and then he, I Dave starts
(23:01):
to realize, oh my gosh, this guyis ruining my life.
He's, he's really just kind ofgetting worse and worse and
worse.
Mm-hmm.
But really, it's, it's just Dr.
Riedel putting the pressure moreand more on him.
Like, Hey, this is what, this iswhat happens.
Because that is what builds themore and more you kind of hold
things inside, the more, youknow, not only does that build
up, but the more it's kind of,that's what people expect from
(23:22):
you after that.
And it's, it's like thoseboundaries and expectations
mm-hmm.
Of interaction.
Yeah.
And he kept, and I think it waslike probably harder for Dr.
Rydell too than probably otherclients because, you know, Dave
wasn't exploding, he wasn'tletting out.
So it's like, okay, let me dosomething more like ridiculous.
(23:43):
Let me just put in anothersituation that most people would
probably say no or flip out to,but you know, like what, what
are his what?
What are his limits?
He was a tough, he was a toughcase, I think he knew that
probably from the way Lindadescribed, but he was really
seeing like, oh my gosh, thisguy really does intake
(24:03):
everything and just wanna avoidconfrontation.
Mm-hmm.
At all costs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
yeah, and I, I think there aremoments where he does, he, of
course, he gets angry and upset,like with his bully when he
confronts him.
Mm-hmm.
But to me, I mean, maybe not theway he does it, but to me it
seems like okay, that's, that'sjustified that he would be
(24:23):
really upset with this.
And it sound, it seems like he'strying to kind of, maybe he
expects even more at that point,confronting it.
Yeah.
So it just is like, then itoverloads his anger and then it,
it, it proves Dr.
Rydell.
Right.
You know, that like, yeah.
You would really once released,it's gonna be a volcano, right?
Mm-hmm.
And you're gonna, yeah, because,and then.
And then they, they had likesuch a great bonding too.
(24:44):
After that they're like, yeah,this is awesome.
And then it just, I think heprobably expected like, okay,
well Dave is going to turn a newleaf and he is gonna start
confronting people.
But then when he saw that hestill.
Hasn't changed in other ways andhe is like, okay, I need to
really up the empty, you know,even more.
Yeah.
He had to keep kind of, kind ofpushing him and then he goes
(25:06):
towards something that's very,very important to him, which is
his girlfriend.
Linda, and he starts to set himup to look bad, like going with
that other woman, kind ofchallenging him mm-hmm.
To go up and be with her, eventhough he has no interest, he's
just like, okay, I gotta dothis.
I was sitting there, I was like,oh my gosh, seriously, you are
with someone, you don't wannacheat on her.
And this person is telling you,oh, just go, go see if you can,
(25:28):
pick up this girl, you know,Yeah.
And I was like, oh my God.
but then he kind of put it aslike, I challenge you to talk to
this person or whatever.
And then I will sign thepaperwork.
Tanya (25:38):
Yeah.
Erin (25:38):
you know, I will release you if you do this.
you need to Yeah.
Take a break from Linda and thendo this.
He is like, you know, he's notgonna say he's not gonna wanna
take a break from hisgirlfriend, but he did, because
Dr.
Ray told him to, he said, Idon't wanna talk to somebody,
you know, like, you know, like,I'm you know, in a relationship
or whatever.
So he still talks to him, youknow, like it's just.
(26:02):
And in that way, when I thinkabout it that way, like that's a
good point because he is stillholding that over his head, so
he's really training him like,Hey, even when somebody has the
power like that, you still needto stick up for yourself.
Yeah.
So I think that really is a goodlesson, To kind of, because I
think that's what he was reallyTrying to say is that, people
will always try to hoard powerover you in particular
(26:23):
situations.
Like not in general, in reallife too.
I mean, this happens so often topeople, with their bosses, you
know, I don't wanna work, keephaving to do overtime all the
time, or I don't wanna have towork every holiday, or I don't
wanna.
Be on call or I don't wanna haveto answer my email when I'm not
at work there's so manyboundaries, but you feel like
you have to because your boss issaying it And a lot of people
(26:45):
are so afraid to say no orafraid of confrontation.
Yeah.
And there, I mean, there'sdefinitely.
See, when I, I think about iflike a client like Dave came,
came to me as, as a therapistand not in the model that
they're using, because I don'tuse that model.
I don't stay 24 7 and I don'tsleep with clients, at all.
(27:06):
Oh, that's good to know.
Wouldn't go to their homes,nothing.
So, so, you know, it it, I, inthinking about that, I think.
I would definitely wanna work onboundaries and kind of being
able to, to find these things,but it, it would be a lot
tougher just meeting one hour aweek.
And going over that because itwould take a lot to dig down
(27:27):
there.
And I think there's a lot ofresistance there.
You know, so in this way, Dr.
Rydell just kind of like,really, really challenges him.
And I'm not advocating for thistype of therapy because we
couldn't do this type oftherapy.
This is not, it's not ethicaland it's just not, you'd have to
pay a lot of money For that.
And it would be a lot of time.
You have to be able to workindividually with a client for
like.
30 days at a time's.
(27:48):
Just, you know, well, it'd belike your own client, you know?
And Yeah.
Well that's just like goingback, you know, a lot of our
episodes kind of relate to eachother.
I was just thinking like, that'dbe, be like the doctor from Six
Sense.
You know?
He was just a one-on-one doctor,you know?
He could have just, oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Good, good connection.
Yeah.
Yeah, he was kind of just withhim the whole time, you know,
(28:10):
somehow found, found his filemagically and was with him, you
know, like it was dead and yeah,still serving.
So I guess some, it's possible.
But yeah, that would be a lot ofwork though.
I mean, I'm sure there are somepeople that do that, like kind
of like a concierge type of, Iam just seeing you, or just
seeing two clients, and that'sit.
That's my full-time job that'sactually, we'd have to have
(28:32):
people who'd be able to pay alarge fee upfront and you know,
so it would probably be limitedto people that would be able to
do that.
And you'd have to be available,like if you have, you know, kids
and stuff like that, you can'tbe with someone 24 7 of, of
course this would be like, youknow, this would be very much
modified and ethical if thiswere true.
It's not like they would sleepin the same bed with them, I
(28:53):
would hope.
Yeah.
You know, and cuddle them andeverything.
But, yeah, I, I think that,yeah, probably there are some
like, kind of round, round theclock maybe like you said,
concierge therapist.
I think that's a good way to putit.
Concierge therapist.
Yeah.
with kind of a similar objectiveof like, okay, with this, but
in, in terms of insurancebilling and with people just
kind of, that we deal with dayin and day out mm-hmm.
(29:14):
that's not really feasible.
but it's interesting though, tomaybe have one or two to kind
of, focus on Is that somethingyou would be interested in if
you were, if it like, obviouslyif it were, within, like say,
okay, I'm available to you.
Like if you pay this feeupfront, like Monday through
Friday from nine to five orsomething.
instead of having to worry,okay, I only have to worry about
(29:34):
these two or three clients.
I feel like I've worked so hardover the years to set boundaries
for myself because of my pastjobs.
I didn't have boundaries and Ifeel like I always let my work
take over.
Whether I was working nights,weekends on call, answering
emails on Sunday night,interrupting family dinners,
(29:58):
having the effect on vacation.
So I really felt like my pastjobs affected my mental health
and my health and everything.
So I think if I were to dosomething like that, I would
have to.
Have some limits of like, okay,I'm on, I'm here with you every
(30:19):
day, Monday through Friday, ormaybe Saturdays till four.
there would have to be someboundaries because I don't ever
wanna get into a situation likeI was before.
In my past life jobs.
Right.
Yeah, that's a really good pointbecause I think that kind of
defeats the purpose of it isthat these people would want
somebody accessible At anypoint, you know, and, and
(30:40):
probably, you know, crises don'thappen within a certain
timeframe, but at the samepoint, you know, for people like
us, and I agree with you withlike the boundary thing and like
setting that and everything.
I'm at that point too, where Idon't, I think it would kind of
just, it wouldn't, it wouldn'twork out, you know?
So it sounds good in theory tobe like, oh, okay, I'm available
to you during these times, kindof thing.
(31:01):
But it, more than likely, peoplewould probably have stuff
outside of that and they'd belike, well, what's the purpose
of this?
And it probably would.
I mean, there are probablytherapists that do that and
would love to do that.
Like, especially if they're, youknow.
Don't have bad work experiencesin the past and like aren't,
don't have PTSD from their pastjobs.
Yep.
Yeah.
So I mean like, but I mean itcould be, it could actually be
(31:23):
really fun, like if you do that,especially if you have two or
three the clients that you loveand you're just like, okay, this
is really good.
I think it would be more likecoaching.
I think that would kind ofviolate, some feelings of
privacy and us getting tooenmeshed in their lives and then
us setting boundaries and thenknowing us as people.
Like if we're spending that muchtime, I'm not saying that
(31:45):
that's, a bad thing to a certaindegree, but I think it would
push the limits of it.
Yeah.
so it would be very tough, but Idon't know, maybe some people
are able to find a model thatworks for them.
I don't know, but personally Iwould not be interested in it
because I think it would kind ofdefeat the purpose and then you
just feel guilty and stressedout and worried about them when
you're outside of that time.
Yeah, I don't think I could doit.
(32:05):
No.
'cause then, then you do, you'realways tied to your phone.
Do you have to see them inperson because it's like a
concierge, like, you know, theyprobably want more, you know,
like it's, right.
So you're kind of on call, likeeven if you say like, I'm not
available, you kind of are oncall.
Yeah.
Then you only see people in yourtown because you wanna be like,
okay, I have to see them inperson within 20 minutes or so.
(32:28):
I guess there'd be a lot ofdifferent things you'd have to
see when you create thecontract.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, it really would be reallytough, I think.
Yeah, that's what I was thinkingof all of that and watching this
movie, I couldn't help but thinkof the practicals of that, and I
was like, I know it's a movie.
It's ridiculous.
I know therapists are, you know,we don't even know if he's a
psychiatrist or a psychologist.
Yeah, they just call him doctor.
or if he has the degree that Dr.
(32:49):
Phil has, like I,
Tanya (32:51):
yeah, yeah.
Sports psych,
Erin (32:53):
Yeah.
And I mean, so we don't reallyknow what it is that, you know,
and it's a movie.
Yeah.
So it's really, you know, right.
About, thinking about that, butI just couldn't, it like made me
ugh, like anxious Just kind ofthinking about that.
But then I was like, it wasjust, it was funny and Right.
so you know, buddy really.
Pushes the limits with Dave andhe's like, you know, this starts
to move in on Linda.
(33:13):
And basically is just likeslowly taking over that
relationship and then, gets herto say, oh, we need time apart
with Dave.
And then he discovers that abuddy is dating her.
Thinks that, you know, they'regoing to a ball game and he
thinks, oh my God, I told him myidea of a proposal.
He is gonna propose to her.
Buddy must have told the guys inthe group, okay, this is what's
(33:36):
happening.
You guys need to go to Dave'shouse and let him know.
That I am at the Yankees game,And the girls to like attend
with him and to go to thatrestaurant kind of thing.
so that's another thing that'sreally tricky, like getting
people involved that are likealso getting therapy to help
someone else getting therapy.
(33:56):
Like it's just a whole messthere.
yeah.
So they must have been kind ofin on it, at least in that part.
And maybe they got free therapyfor doing that, you know?
'cause it doesn't seem likeSuper ethical all the time.
and it's interesting'cause thatwas like the last thing.
He's probably like, oh gosh, if,if Dave does not come to the
game and do something, then he'sfailed.
you know, this has to be thething that's gonna trigger him
(34:18):
and he was probably so happywhen he saw him get onto the
field and then Woody Harrelsonlets him, lets him on.
He is like, okay, I gotta go.
And then, buddy runs to the, youknow, up to the, wherever it is,
Tanya (34:33):
bike.
Erin (34:33):
Yeah.
and then still I was likethinking like, oh my gosh,
buddy, he's such a jerk.
'cause I still had no idea whatwas happening.
I was just thinking like, okay,buddy's gonna.
make them put the, you know,will you marry me right now?
not realizing that he was in onit and he was, on team Dave.
He wanted Dave to propose.
(34:54):
This is all like yeah, just toget him to express his feelings
and to not procrastinate Say,take what he wants and do what
he wants.
Yeah.
I mean, some of the lessons werekind of like, okay, he attacked,
he attacked him and gave himlike a broken neck or whatever,
or sprained neck.
And at one point when he saidthat they're in love, he
attacked him.
And then he also got into afight with a monk.
(35:14):
some of the lessons were likekind of.
He responded in violence, whichhe was like, okay, let's keep
working on this.
So this was kind of like the,okay, yeah.
Something that's reallyimportant to him.
Is he gonna fight for this?
And he did.
And Linda's like, okay, I willaccept this, or if you kiss me
in front of all these people,and that's, and he wouldn't even
kiss her in public, like, youknow, at the airport.
(35:34):
He would shake her.
He shook her hand because he islike, all right, somebody's
looking.
I can't, I can't kiss you ifsomebody's looking.
Yeah, he's got a high amount,high amount of social anxiety.
Very much.
You know, you pass.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, and then Yeah, forsure.
Yeah.
Then we got to see, hedefinitely learned his lessons.
Yeah.
Then, yeah, I, we were talkingtoo, like even Rudy Giuliani was
(35:54):
in there, you know, like thatwas when, before he became how
he's now, you know?
But he he was when he wasbeloved.
Yeah.
When he was beloved.
And you know, the, I rememberthe person's name, it's Rob
Snider.
That does that.
You can do it.
You can do it.
Yeah.
He throws that in.
He is, it's like a running themein in his movies.
(36:16):
Yeah.
His cast of characters andthemes and people and yeah,
it's, it's all Adam and we loveit.
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
So.
He learns, you know, Hey, yougotta fight for this because you
could lose it all.
You could lose your, yourgirlfriend that you love, the
person you love.
You could lose your freedom.
You could go to jail and youknow, if you attack people'cause
you haven't spoken out againstthis the whole time kind of
(36:36):
thing.
And yeah.
And so he learns like, Hey,this, this is worth fighting
for.
When it's kind of on the smallerlevel.
I can't avoid it because I couldlose all of this.
That's kind of the big lesson.
Which is definitely works.
And then, you know, everything'sgreat.
He graduates from therapy, theyhold a graduation ceremony and
sing.
I Feel Pretty, which is encircleeach other, holding hands and
(36:59):
whole group.
Yep.
And Dave plays a whole joke onthem, like, like pretending like
somebody's coming after them andto, to scare them to kind of
show like, Hey, I'm in control.
I can, I can stick up formyself.
Yeah.
The guy from, he's like, oh, areyou buddy Rydel?
Yeah, so everything works outgreat movie.
Can't do that in therapy.
(37:20):
No.
Obviously it's not in real life,but no, good, good movie.
And it's fine too becausehonestly, when we picked this
movie, like I was telling you, Iwas like, I know I've seen this
movie, which once, once I, onceit finished, I was like, oh
yeah, I saw this movie, but I.
Forgot the whole premise of it.
So it was a nice surprisebecause I did not even realize
that, Jack Nicholson was atherapist.
(37:41):
I had no idea that I justfigured Adam Sandler was this
angry guy.
You know, I was thinking it wasgonna be the opposite.
I was thinking like Adam wasjust like a hot head the whole
time and was trying to calmdown, but he wasn't.
Yeah, I, I had a similar like, Idon't know, memory or whatever
that's called, the, thebutterfly effect or whatever,
that they're, what is thatMandela effect?
(38:02):
The Mandela Effect, yeah.
That they're calling it orwhatever.
I don't know.
I, I don't know if that evenapplies here, but Yeah, I
thought the same thing.
I was like, I kind of had thesememories of it that I was like,
I'm thinking of another movie,so I think we were thinking of,
but yeah, so.
Are you ready for?
Yes.
This is my favorite part.
Our challenge question?
Yes.
Oh, a challenge?
Yes.
Okay.
well, I guess maybe not achallenge.
(38:22):
Maybe a fantastical challenge.
Okay.
So if you were to conduct thesame type of therapy mm-hmm.
That Dr.
Wright does, except, you know,obviously like not, you know,
whatever, if you were able to dothat.
Yeah.
What would your area of focusbe?
Oh, for that?
What would you wanna do?
(38:42):
Oh, I would do some, like hedoes anger management.
Yeah.
But like, you know, so this ismaking me think of Mari Povich.
Like, or, or was it Marvi MariPovich or Geraldo that would all
of a sudden, like you're like,oh, you're afraid of spiders.
Guess what?
Now there's a whole room ofspiders or you are afraid of
this.
Like he did the ultimateexposure therapy.
(39:05):
So I would like to, like if Idid something like that, I think
it would be fun to, maybe notanger management, but maybe even
try to find, okay, what issomeone's biggest, like their
phobia?
So they're afraid of.
Spiders.
Well, spiders I would not wannado, but if they're afraid of
like funny rabbits or they'reafraid of like Monty Python or
(39:26):
something, but like if they'reafraid of something, some sort
of creature or something, Iwould like to figure out their
phobias and do exposure therapyof like, oh, you don't like
trains.
We're going on a big long trainride.
Oh, you don't like this.
We're gonna go, you know,skydiving.
I'm not gonna skydiving.
But if we did something like, Iwould like to do something like
(39:48):
that.
'cause I think that would bekind of fun.
Like specific phobias.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's so funny.
That's exactly the way, that'sexactly what I was thinking.
Like I, I thought about myanswer to this.
'cause I, I actually thoughtabout this last night as I was
falling asleep for some oddreason And I was like, I would
do specific phobias because I, Ithink that probably feels more
concrete and feels like it wouldbe beneficial mm-hmm.
For this.
(40:08):
so that probably feels good tobe able to do, but Yeah.
I agree.
I think it would be, kind ofsatisfying to be able to see and
be like, okay, what is somethingthat we can make some progress
on That we can see and help thisperson through this And see the
results.
And I think too, that feels morelike you could do, it could be
more behavioral focus too.
Like if you need to have thatdata, like, okay, well they
(40:30):
lasted one second, or theydidn't last at all.
Or we had to, you know, it Tedback like 10 steps and now you
know, whatever.
it could be interesting and Iinstantly thought of like, I
think all of them did it.
I think Geraldo did it.
I think Montel did it.
I think Jerry Springer did itthe most.
Yeah.
Honestly.
Oh, I'm sure he did.
Here's a room full of snakes,you know, like, yeah, yeah.
(40:51):
Oh, you're afraid of your, Idon't know, clown confronting
your, your child's, potentialfather and like, not knowing who
it is.
Oh, they're here.
They heard everything.
Here they are kind of thing.
Let's do it right now.
The better the confrontation,the, you know, the.
Funny.
But yeah, so that's angermanagement.
(41:12):
ours would be phobia, it wouldbe a management phobia fighting
or something.
Jerry Springer, whatever wewould come up with, you know.
Or else if you could do a JerrySpringer style therapy, that
might be fun.
I would totally not do thatbecause I would be like, oh my
gosh, we cannot do this untilfirst.
No, I would not do, I don't evenwanna do family therapy or
(41:33):
couples counseling, so I wouldnot wanna do Jerry Springer
style, but yeah, I'm sure somepeople would love that.
Yeah.
That might be their, theirniche.
I don't know.
But yeah, so that, that's angermanagement.
Let us know what you think.
if we left anything out orsomething else you found.
Funny, entertaining some otherpoints about mental health or
(41:53):
just in general.
we like it all.
And next show, we're gonna getaway from Adam for a minute, but
he's coming back.
Don't worry.
and again, as always, if youguys ever have any suggestions
or.
Eighties, nineties, or today ofanything.
It doesn't have to just be Adam,but let us know.
Yeah, we do really like Adam,but yeah, he is great.
yeah, so, you know, don't forgetto like, subscribe, follow,
(42:16):
we're on all the socials,including YouTube, so you can
see our lovely faces.
Mm-hmm.
And, follow along.
But yeah.
So, yeah, I think that's it.
don't forget, stay wicked andkeep your mind well.
All right.
Have a great week.
Bye.
Bye guys.
You are listening to WickedPsychotherapists, a podcast
where two psychotherapists showyou that taking care of and
learning about mental healthdoesn't have to be wicked hat.
Tanya (00:32):
Hey guys, it's Tanya.
Erin (00:34):
Hi, it's Erin and welcome to Wicked Psychotherapists.
Yeah, so we are continuing onour binge.
We are like a rolling stone.
We just love Adam Sandler and asyou can tell, we are obsessed
with him.
So this week, we're gonna betalking about his movie Anger
Management.
I don't know why I feel the needto announce that.
(00:55):
Like a radio, an old schoolradio host.
But you got very, you got veryserious.
It's like, and today we'll betalking about anger management.
I dunno what the heck I wasthinking.
but yeah, so anger management.
this is a nice little gem of afilm.
I like it.
It was, early two thousands,like 2003.
but it, of course is really,great because it has Jack
(01:17):
Nicholson.
I mean, come on.
And he is funny and he is, inthe lead role.
But it really, I think Adam wasreally stretching out his wings
here and kind of like, okay,different types of comedy.
And this was really.
tied in with our podcast becauseit involves doing a type of
(01:37):
therapy for anger management,which is bizarre.
the mode itself is really on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
it's pretty unconventional.
Yeah, it's, so if you have notwatched this again, you all know
this.
Spoilers are, we're justdiscussing the whole movie.
So if you're calling here, it'sgonna be, and it's well over 20
years that it's been out.
Maybe pause, watch it come backif you feel like you need to see
(01:59):
it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's a funny, it is like afunny movie.
It's very, very, I think.
not very insightful towardstherapy in general because if,
if my therapist did this to me,I'd be pissed.
Yeah.
but it's, it's just not, a greatthing.
Yeah.
The ethical boundaries are,maybe they're a little different
(02:19):
for Dr.
Rydel than it is they are foranyone else, but I think so.
I think so.
I think he's in an alternateuniversity and he's Jack
Nicholson, so he just can dowhatever the heck he wants.
Mm-hmm.
But, Yeah, so, so we see, wemeet, we meet Adam's character,
David, what is it, Nik orsomething?
the first scene we see is himwhen he's younger.
(02:41):
He is crushing on this girl.
He is at this like block partyin Brooklyn and he's like, oh,
you know, You know, he's kind ofwatching her and she comes over
and she's like, wanna play truthor dare blah, blah, blah.
He gets an opportunity, shedares him, like, kiss me.
And then he gets pants by theneighborhood bully, Arne
Shankman.
And so he's humiliated and kindof sets the tone for his
(03:02):
personality that we see in hislife where he's very much walked
upon.
he's very meek and does notstick up for his needs.
People pleasing, You know, he's,even in his job in the
beginning, he's going off tothis, he was invited by his boss
to come to some like, conferenceor meeting or something in St.
Louis and he's calling his bosssaying, oh, thank you so much
(03:25):
for the opportunity.
And his boss just like hangs upon him as he is going to the
force, just doesn't even care.
And he's still pretending likehe's talking to him and his
girlfriend.
He hung up on you already,didn't he?
And he is like, gosh, she knowshim so well.
You know, she's like, you,you're just gonna continue to
put on the show.
So we, we really see anestablished, definitive people
(03:46):
pleaser, right?
You know, someone who is, isafraid to push boundaries, but
also needs to put on a show forother people to make sure things
are okay.
And his girlfriend Linda, who'splayed by Marissa Tome, who is
just.
You know, beautiful and neverages.
No, she doesn't.
I mean, well then, then she wasyoung, but, you know, but she
(04:07):
is, yeah, now she's like, stilllooks like that age crazy.
Yeah, I know.
I had to Google her.
I mean,'cause of course everyoneknows her.
Well, I don't know if everyoneknows her, but from my, my
cousin Vinny.
I mean, like, that's just like,you know, in Yeah.
Everything else.
I mean, she's just great andyeah, she, she plays, she's,
she's very good as hisgirlfriend in this.
she definitely balances him outvery well.
(04:28):
you know, but she definitely isin, on, on seeing that he's,
he's being held back in lifewith this personality trait.
yeah, and then we start to seethat he, on, on the plane.
He, after having an incident ofpeople pleasing, this guy sits
in a seat and is like, go findanother seat.
Nah, just go sit in my seat kindof thing.
(04:49):
And then we see Dr.
Rydell like, oh, over here.
Come on over here.
And so instead of confrontingthis guy, he is like, oh, I'm
gonna just take the easierroute.
You know, he has a lot ofavoidance.
I would say some social anxiety.
he's kind of, afraid to confrontthat.
Tanya (05:03):
Mm-hmm.
Erin (05:04):
confront people.
Yeah.
He's, yeah, he's kind of stuntedand just, but really high
anxiety too.
And it's interesting too,because once we know.
The premise of the movie, whichagain, we're gonna be spoiling
the whole movie for you guys,but it's every, that's what we
do.
So pretty much, you startlooking at Dr.
Buddy ride's or Buddy, everysingle thing he does, he's
(05:27):
trying to trigger him.
He is trying to get Dave to.
Have some sort of response.
Even the first time when they'reeven on the plane and they're
both on the armrest and buddy'slooking at him, he is like,
that's my room.
That's you're on my side.
You're doing this.
Or, when he is like reallyobnoxious laughing at the movie.
(05:48):
It's just like every singlething.
He is like, come on, I'm tryingto give this kid a breakthrough,
or just trying to, let's notmake it a whole two week ordeal,
It's interesting.
Yeah, he's really laying out thetraps from him.
He is like, come on, I'm tryingto get you to react, trying to
get you to confront this.
And, you know, because we, youknow, we do realize that from
(06:08):
the beginning, this is a setupthat was actually, placed by his
girlfriend.
Yeah.
Very much, that spoiler alert.
But, yeah, so it, it startsright from the plane and then
he, he all of a sudden getsarrested for.
Quote, assaulting, what do youcall it, stewardess or airplane
hostess.
Yeah.
Flight attendant.
Flight attendant.
Yeah.
Flight hostess.
I dunno, what, what year is thisat a restaurant?
(06:31):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
I'm still, I'm living in thefifties.
Yeah, those women.
Yeah.
It's funny too,'cause like whenI first was watching it, I had
forgot that I watched this moviebefore and so I.
Completely forgot everythingthat happened.
So I was like, what?
I was like, oh my God.
I don't even remember when heassaulted her.
Like how did he, how did she endup with that arm thing?
(06:54):
Like I was like, not realizingthat maybe it didn't really
happen that way, but it is justreally funny.
Yeah, yeah.
We kinda learn If you're a firsttime watcher of it, you're not
aware that this is all a setup,right.
And that it's for buddy to beable to confront these things.
it just gets more and moreridiculous.
he gets arrested and getsordered to be in the care of,
(07:14):
Dr.
Or no, he doesn't get.
Ordered to be in the care then?
Not at that point, the firsttime it's just, she's like,
well, you need to do some angermanagement classes.
He happens to see a book of Dr.
Riels and he's like, oh, he doesthis.
He could vouch for me.
He could just sign off on this.
Yeah.
This is the guy from the plane.
It'll be easy.
And then he's like, well justcome to one so we could say you
(07:36):
could hang out.
And so he is like, oh, cool,okay.
I'll just get this done.
And over some misunderstanding.
And again, even just the factthat he doesn't fight for
himself in this, because I, Iwas thinking, wow, if this grave
injustice of being like, oh mygosh, like I did not assault
someone and now I have to goand.
(07:57):
Do anger management classes, andthis is not me, and I wasn't
raising my voice and I wasclearly, I was tased.
It was like whisper talkinglike, can I, can I have a
headset?
Can I have this?
Yeah, sir, why are you yellingat me?
Yeah, and they're all like, keepyour voice down.
He's like, what?
(08:17):
Am I crazy?
Definitely being gas, like Ohyeah.
The whole crew, which we findout we're all paid by buddy
later on, but everyone is like,yeah, completely gaslighting him
through this whole thing.
He's like, wait a minute.
Am I yelling?
Do I have anger?
Anger issues?
Which is, is totally likehilarious in this setting.
But obviously, you know, if thiswere happening in real life,
(08:40):
which I would hope it wouldn't,I'd hope no therapist would do
this.
Yeah.
but you know, it, it is prettyhilarious because you're like,
okay, this guy was totally justconvinced of something.
I just remember thinking like,wow, to go to court, to have a
charge on my record, no, I wouldbe fighting that and be like,
no, you need to show me moreevidence.
I would at least feel betterabout it.
(09:00):
I don't know.
And I think he's just so used tobeing numb and kind of being
like, okay, I need to just getthrough this and this will just
kind of get it out of the way,you know, kind of thing.
He's kind of always at thatlevel where it's like too much
stress and he just needs to likedo the thing to like mm-hmm.
Get over it and just move on.
Yeah.
Kind of thing.
And then even his lawyer, KevinNeland is just kind of like the
worst lawyer.
(09:20):
It's just like, okay, not reallyfighting for him.
It just, you know, it's justkind of.
You know, poor, poor Dave Adamis just like putting all his
faith into him, and it's justlike, all right, here's another
charge against you.
Here's some more stuff.
And I don't think he was in onit.
I think that the lawyer wasactually just a lawyer.
Like I don't think he's anincompetent lawyer.
(09:42):
Yeah.
Incompetent public defender.
Yeah.
I mean, I, was he a publicdefender or was that clear?
I, I, I think, think he was, Ithink he was, he probably was.
'cause I'm sure Dave didn't makea lot of money, you know, in his
job.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was like an executiveassistant, basically so, so then
he goes to the anger managementgroup and he's like sitting on
the outskirts.
He's thinking like, oh, I'm justgonna observe And then he gets
(10:02):
invited into the circle becausehe's kind of like, well, why
don't you come join us likethis?
This is a group of people.
Who are all very much used to,you know, getting upset maybe
because other people are, arewatching them or judging them,
or they feel judged and sothey're not going to accept, and
I think Dr.
Rydel knows this, like they'renot going to accept him being on
(10:23):
the outside of this.
Yeah, yeah.
And so they, they naturally,they kind of are like, Hey, you
gotta come over here and like bea part of the group.
And, he starts to learneverybody's.
Stories and he's kind of likethinking like, I don't belong
here.
You know?
He even said like, oh, I'm justhere for one session.
And they're like, oh, so youdon't have anger issues.
I thought it was really funnythat we see a lot of the same
(10:45):
people that we've seen in Mr.
Deeds and Water Boy, you know,we see the guy, he is like, I'm
very sneaky.
You know, I'm very bad with thenames.
But then we have the other, theguy, he always has like the lazy
eye.
Yeah.
So those characters were there.
we always forget the lazy eye,like, who are you?
But he's, a staple.
So we love him, but we don'tknow his name.
(11:08):
it's a pretty funny scene.
You kinda learn this cast ofcharacters that you realize
like, oh man, you know, he'slike, thank God he's thinking
like, I'm not gonna have to bearound them long.
But then he realizes like, oh,you know, because the doctor's
like, afterwards, you don't needthis many sessions.
I'm gonna double it.
I'm gonna recommend double.
And he is like, well, whoa.
What?
Then he kind of is like, I cansee that you have, you're the
(11:29):
type of person that's like aticking time bomb that will go
off and be a cashier and shooteverybody that bothers you, kind
of thing.
Yeah.
That's the example he uses.
it's so true though.
It's kind of like he's somebodythat is being pushed around and
may possibly come out and just.
Explode one day.
And you know, in a way, I guessthat is anger management, but we
(11:49):
were talking before in ourpregame session, and I was
saying like, I don't think it'snecessarily anger.
I think this is like boundaries.
This is people pleasing.
This is not, not being able tocommunicate your needs and being
given this, Impression that yourneeds will not be met.
So you're just gonna kind of getaround them in a way.
And I think that pattern was setwith maybe, you know, like the
(12:10):
bullies when he was in thatopening scene with Arkins.
yeah.
So everything was set with histrauma or whatever happened, you
know, like the whole block partysaw everything and mocked
everything.
Even the adults.
Even the little girl he wasgonna kiss and everybody, So I
think that trauma probably madeit like, ugh, I have to be
(12:30):
invisible, I have to be meek.
I have to obey the rules.
I don't wanna draw any attentionto myself, you know?
And so that's definitely notconfronting people.
That's letting people push youaround.
And so that's definitely whatBuddy and his girlfriend.
We're trying to get Dave out ofgetting him to start confronting
(12:55):
people, start to have a voice tobe seen, to be loud.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
I, you know, I really kind of, Irelated to, Dave.
David?
Dave.
Dave.
Yeah.
Dave.
Dave.
because I, I definitely feltthat way.
I, and I don't know if you feltthis way as just being the
youngest of a brood of children.
I think that that can sometimescome in, that can sometimes be
(13:16):
the personality of, of ayoungest of, of a lot of kids,
where there is some dysfunctionbecause there's the, the.
The kind of, I think working,you know, I personality type for
like the youngest in pop cultureis very much like, oh, they're
the clown, they're the baby.
They've been babied kind ofthing.
Yeah.
But I think in our experiences,and I don't, I don't wanna speak
(13:37):
for you, but like I, I relatedto this and kind of feeling
like, you know, you kind of get,you get kind of bullied, you
know?
Mm-hmm.
Just because you're the youngestone there, it's just kind of
Yeah.
Natural and maybe you take in tokind of be like, oh, I'm going
to, you know, maybe, you know,get louder.
Or maybe you take thatinternally and you're kind of
like, oh, maybe to like, not.
(13:58):
You know, anger this sibling orwhatever, I'm gonna kind of do
this or kind of walk aroundthat.
And we had other factors growingup.
I realize, you know, thatcomplicated, well, I know my
role, like, you know, when youlook at the role, I think my
role often was like thepeacekeeper or, trying to make
everyone happy.
So probably very much like that,you know, I had siblings that
were very.
(14:18):
Loud and took up a lot of energyand space.
And then I had others that, youknow, just normal.
But I, I feel like I, yeah, alot of times it was trying to be
quiet or invisible or thepeacekeeper.
Yeah, I just thought that waskind of, interesting.
I wonder if other youngestchildren, because.
I feel whenever I read about inpop culture, you know, those
(14:41):
personality types and howthey're supposed to be with the
oldest, the middle, theyoungest, I think that's very,
very slim to none.
That's very much in a, anidealistic Yeah.
High functioning family that'svery healthy and, and cared for.
And I, I don't think we see thatmuch of it any anymore.
And so I think that.
I just wanted to put that outthere that I think that that's,
(15:03):
you know, kind of something andthat, and that probably is other
things, like there's been nochildhood trauma, you know, like
two parent home or, no addictionor no other things happening.
No abuse, physical or verbal orwhatever.
You know, like who knows whatelse has happened throughout
childhood.
You know, if you have like thisstereotypical perfect childhood,
(15:25):
maybe you would have thoseroles.
this role, right?
Yeah, exactly.
And it's very outmoded,outdated, and not thought about,
from.
A non perspective.
Yeah.
Of the youngest child, becauseit's always thought the oldest
is the golden, the middle isforgotten.
The youngest is the jokester.
Like that's what they expect.
And that's not what happens.
And then people feel like, oh,wait, I didn't have my role.
(15:48):
Correct.
Because I'm supposed to be themost loved because I'm the
oldest, or I'm supposed to beforgotten because I'm the
middle, but I get the mostattention and I'm the middle, or
I'm supposed to be the jokesterand I'm the youngest and I'm
not, you know, so it's very,it's.
It's hard, hard when you havethose roles that are supposed to
be assigned.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
I never related to the, like, Iwas always like, I'm supposed to
(16:09):
be the jokester and the carefreeone, and the person who doesn't
feel like I, I don't know ifthat came across in my, in my
family.
I don't think, I think I wasjust very invisible and kind of
feeling like trying to avoidlandmines.
That was the way I always feltinternally.
and my actions were very much indoing things and avoiding things
because of that.
Tanya (16:27):
Yeah.
Erin (16:27):
Um, so yeah, I just, I, I can see some, some kind of
crossover in that and, um,wonder if anybody else kind of
has that experience.
But anyways, um, back to, backto anger management.
Yeah.
Back to Adam or Dave orwhatever.
Adam, Dave.
Dave, Adam.
he's always Adam no matter what.
He's always Adam.
He definitely brought, like Imentioned, Water boy and
(16:49):
everything.
I'm sure you saw a bunch of thewater boy expressions and like
when he body slammed the, monk,his old bully.
I was like, okay.
Yes.
He, he's got like, he definitelyfits in elements.
He, the singing style, the wayhe's kind of, he has a very
(17:11):
particular like.
Voice and cadence in the waythat he sings things.
When, when Dr.
Rydel was like, oh, or Buddy waslike, oh, sing, I feel pretty,
that will calm you down.
And like the way he was justlike, I feel pretty, like he
just kind of gets into like hislittle mode, you know?
But I, I just, yeah.
I love those, those points whenyou see them, because if you're
(17:33):
an Adam fan, you, you, for sureare, are gonna recognize that.
But I was laughing at that whenhe stopped him in the middle of
the bridge and was just like,you need to sing.
Like this is a song.
Everyone's like, move it.
Jerk a part.
I was, I was cackling at.
Yeah.
and so then we start to realizethat, Dr.
Reel's methods are really,really inappropriate, but kind
(17:54):
of hilarious.
Yeah.
And sets up this whole, deeply,deeply wrong and unethical
exposure therapy type ofprocess, which in the end, of
course it was effective.
But, you know, it's notsomething We could ever really
do and get away with.
Right.
I think that would be very, verydifficult.
Maybe a coach could do that andbe like, I'm gonna bill you for
(18:15):
whatever this amount every day,and they could For somebody
who's really wealthy.
But, yeah, so he moves in andhe's like, I, I'm here.
My method is completewraparound.
Like, you know, I'm here twentyfour seven.
I have phone taps.
I'm here, I sleep here, Imonitor you.
I go everywhere you go.
It's just like his parasite, youknow, for the next, 30 days or
whatever it was.
(18:36):
Which is just overwhelming.
And even to the point where he'ssleeping.
He doesn't have his couch.
So he is like, well, hem gonnasleep, I to sleep in bed with
you.
And then he is like, oh my God.
You could see Adam's face.
He's so uncomfortable.
And again, these are allscenarios where it's like.
You should exert yourboundaries.
You should be like, no.
Heck no.
You're staying in a hotel.
(18:58):
You're not staying in my house.
You're not sleeping in bed withme.
You know, like, so there, therewas so many times Dave could
have, and I think Buddy wastrying to say like, I'm gonna do
all this to get a reaction tosee if he's gonna have any sort
of, not even just anger, just.
(19:19):
You know, just show like, Hey, Ican, I can have this little bit
of self-confidence and just tellyou what, what I feel without
worrying what the outcome'sgonna be.
Yeah.
Although, you know, when I thinkabout it though, in that
scenario where Dr.
Rydell kind of has a power overhim, right.
To sign or not sign Or recommendjail time.
I think there's definitely apower dynamic there.
(19:40):
I know this is what we do,right?
We psychoanalyze, But it's like,almost like it's building and
building, and I think that'spart of the experiment of this
Of this like exposureexperiment.
Yeah.
And at first the relationship isjust kind of like, okay, well
you're kind of coming into mygroup.
Then we go back to court andthen, oh wait, now I have to
live with you, then back tocourt.
You know, it just like keepsgetting worse and worse You
(20:00):
don't know what's gonna happenand it's just, just trying to,
You know, so then the stakes arehigher and higher and it's like,
I have to still do what thiscrazy doctor is recommended and
I do.
Yeah.
And again, I totally, I feelthat with, with, Dave, you know,
and kind of like sometimesyou've gotten into this kind of
(20:22):
power dynamic with someone andit feels like, oh, if I start
exerting a boundary now, likethey were my friend and I told
them like this kind of secret orsomething.
And maybe I don't want them totell that, so I have to kind of
please them and not anger themAnd not upset them.
And it kind of becomes like anabuse dynamic.
I've had that with, a goodfriend of mine for a long time
(20:42):
and kind of recognize that.
Something where, you know, inthis movie, obviously it's just,
it's something funny because youjust kind of see these
ridiculous things that you'relike, okay, nobody would put up
with this.
But, you know, like, you know,in terms of like sleeping in bed
with him and then saying, Isleep naked, and then spooning
him, and instead of like saying,this is, this is, I, I need to
(21:03):
find another person.
He's like always kind of tryingto avoid confrontation.
Always.
Yeah.
Then also if you think on theother end too, like Buddy Ryde,
like he is in it like, so, likehe is 100% invested in his
clients.
Yeah.
so if you see it the other way,it's like, all right, Linda paid
me for a service.
(21:24):
I am going to make sure thisperson.
Learns how to confront peopleand learns his self worth.
Tanya (21:33):
Mm-hmm.
Erin (21:34):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, it, it.
He's, Dr.
Rydell is persistent.
He really is.
I mean, he really, and he setsup and he works out, you know,
all this network of people Yeah.
to help him and support of evenincluding a judge and you know,
all the people on the airline.
And, the friend who he hires asthe actress, Heather Graham,
(21:55):
when they're in Boston.
but yeah, starting from, youknow, when he moves in and he's
like, you know, I gotta goeverywhere with you.
He starts to realize, oh, thatmeans literally everywhere.
He's like, oh, well I'll seeyou, I'm gonna work.
And he is like, oh, well we'regoing to work, you know, kind of
thing.
And he is like, oh my gosh.
And so he is realizing thesituation he's in and he is
like, oh my God, he, he's comingto work.
(22:15):
And then he goes in and he makesthings.
Like, he makes him late and hemakes things really, you know,
awful with his boss to kind ofconfront him because his boss
is, his boss is pretty abusive.
Yeah.
He like calls him names andhe's, he's really, you know, he
steals his ideas.
Caught ace.
Yeah.
And he is, yeah.
Doesn't really, you know, ajerk.
Yeah.
Give him credit or just realizehis self for the husky cat line.
(22:38):
God, I loved that so much.
I, I think it's so funny thatthe.
Fat Cat was in like a littlestarter jacket or like a big
sweatshirt.
Just like a big fat kid.
Yes.
And like the little, the littleberet and like would just sit
there, meatball would just sitthere like it's a little
meatball.
but yeah, I think that, youknow, and then he, I Dave starts
(23:01):
to realize, oh my gosh, this guyis ruining my life.
He's, he's really just kind ofgetting worse and worse and
worse.
Mm-hmm.
But really, it's, it's just Dr.
Riedel putting the pressure moreand more on him.
Like, Hey, this is what, this iswhat happens.
Because that is what builds themore and more you kind of hold
things inside, the more, youknow, not only does that build
up, but the more it's kind of,that's what people expect from
(23:22):
you after that.
And it's, it's like thoseboundaries and expectations
mm-hmm.
Of interaction.
Yeah.
And he kept, and I think it waslike probably harder for Dr.
Rydell too than probably otherclients because, you know, Dave
wasn't exploding, he wasn'tletting out.
So it's like, okay, let me dosomething more like ridiculous.
(23:43):
Let me just put in anothersituation that most people would
probably say no or flip out to,but you know, like what, what
are his what?
What are his limits?
He was a tough, he was a toughcase, I think he knew that
probably from the way Lindadescribed, but he was really
seeing like, oh my gosh, thisguy really does intake
(24:03):
everything and just wanna avoidconfrontation.
Mm-hmm.
At all costs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
yeah, and I, I think there aremoments where he does, he, of
course, he gets angry and upset,like with his bully when he
confronts him.
Mm-hmm.
But to me, I mean, maybe not theway he does it, but to me it
seems like okay, that's, that'sjustified that he would be
(24:23):
really upset with this.
And it sound, it seems like he'strying to kind of, maybe he
expects even more at that point,confronting it.
Yeah.
So it just is like, then itoverloads his anger and then it,
it, it proves Dr.
Rydell.
Right.
You know, that like, yeah.
You would really once released,it's gonna be a volcano, right?
Mm-hmm.
And you're gonna, yeah, because,and then.
And then they, they had likesuch a great bonding too.
(24:44):
After that they're like, yeah,this is awesome.
And then it just, I think heprobably expected like, okay,
well Dave is going to turn a newleaf and he is gonna start
confronting people.
But then when he saw that hestill.
Hasn't changed in other ways andhe is like, okay, I need to
really up the empty, you know,even more.
Yeah.
He had to keep kind of, kind ofpushing him and then he goes
(25:06):
towards something that's very,very important to him, which is
his girlfriend.
Linda, and he starts to set himup to look bad, like going with
that other woman, kind ofchallenging him mm-hmm.
To go up and be with her, eventhough he has no interest, he's
just like, okay, I gotta dothis.
I was sitting there, I was like,oh my gosh, seriously, you are
with someone, you don't wannacheat on her.
And this person is telling you,oh, just go, go see if you can,
(25:28):
pick up this girl, you know,Yeah.
And I was like, oh my God.
but then he kind of put it aslike, I challenge you to talk to
this person or whatever.
And then I will sign thepaperwork.
Tanya (25:38):
Yeah.
Erin (25:38):
you know, I will release you if you do this.
you need to Yeah.
Take a break from Linda and thendo this.
He is like, you know, he's notgonna say he's not gonna wanna
take a break from hisgirlfriend, but he did, because
Dr.
Ray told him to, he said, Idon't wanna talk to somebody,
you know, like, you know, like,I'm you know, in a relationship
or whatever.
So he still talks to him, youknow, like it's just.
(26:02):
And in that way, when I thinkabout it that way, like that's a
good point because he is stillholding that over his head, so
he's really training him like,Hey, even when somebody has the
power like that, you still needto stick up for yourself.
Yeah.
So I think that really is a goodlesson, To kind of, because I
think that's what he was reallyTrying to say is that, people
will always try to hoard powerover you in particular
(26:23):
situations.
Like not in general, in reallife too.
I mean, this happens so often topeople, with their bosses, you
know, I don't wanna work, keephaving to do overtime all the
time, or I don't wanna have towork every holiday, or I don't
wanna.
Be on call or I don't wanna haveto answer my email when I'm not
at work there's so manyboundaries, but you feel like
you have to because your boss issaying it And a lot of people
(26:45):
are so afraid to say no orafraid of confrontation.
Yeah.
And there, I mean, there'sdefinitely.
See, when I, I think about iflike a client like Dave came,
came to me as, as a therapistand not in the model that
they're using, because I don'tuse that model.
I don't stay 24 7 and I don'tsleep with clients, at all.
(27:06):
Oh, that's good to know.
Wouldn't go to their homes,nothing.
So, so, you know, it it, I, inthinking about that, I think.
I would definitely wanna work onboundaries and kind of being
able to, to find these things,but it, it would be a lot
tougher just meeting one hour aweek.
And going over that because itwould take a lot to dig down
(27:27):
there.
And I think there's a lot ofresistance there.
You know, so in this way, Dr.
Rydell just kind of like,really, really challenges him.
And I'm not advocating for thistype of therapy because we
couldn't do this type oftherapy.
This is not, it's not ethicaland it's just not, you'd have to
pay a lot of money For that.
And it would be a lot of time.
You have to be able to workindividually with a client for
like.
30 days at a time's.
(27:48):
Just, you know, well, it'd belike your own client, you know?
And Yeah.
Well that's just like goingback, you know, a lot of our
episodes kind of relate to eachother.
I was just thinking like, that'dbe, be like the doctor from Six
Sense.
You know?
He was just a one-on-one doctor,you know?
He could have just, oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Good, good connection.
Yeah.
Yeah, he was kind of just withhim the whole time, you know,
(28:10):
somehow found, found his filemagically and was with him, you
know, like it was dead and yeah,still serving.
So I guess some, it's possible.
But yeah, that would be a lot ofwork though.
I mean, I'm sure there are somepeople that do that, like kind
of like a concierge type of, Iam just seeing you, or just
seeing two clients, and that'sit.
That's my full-time job that'sactually, we'd have to have
(28:32):
people who'd be able to pay alarge fee upfront and you know,
so it would probably be limitedto people that would be able to
do that.
And you'd have to be available,like if you have, you know, kids
and stuff like that, you can'tbe with someone 24 7 of, of
course this would be like, youknow, this would be very much
modified and ethical if thiswere true.
It's not like they would sleepin the same bed with them, I
(28:53):
would hope.
Yeah.
You know, and cuddle them andeverything.
But, yeah, I, I think that,yeah, probably there are some
like, kind of round, round theclock maybe like you said,
concierge therapist.
I think that's a good way to putit.
Concierge therapist.
Yeah.
with kind of a similar objectiveof like, okay, with this, but
in, in terms of insurancebilling and with people just
kind of, that we deal with dayin and day out mm-hmm.
(29:14):
that's not really feasible.
but it's interesting though, tomaybe have one or two to kind
of, focus on Is that somethingyou would be interested in if
you were, if it like, obviouslyif it were, within, like say,
okay, I'm available to you.
Like if you pay this feeupfront, like Monday through
Friday from nine to five orsomething.
instead of having to worry,okay, I only have to worry about
(29:34):
these two or three clients.
I feel like I've worked so hardover the years to set boundaries
for myself because of my pastjobs.
I didn't have boundaries and Ifeel like I always let my work
take over.
Whether I was working nights,weekends on call, answering
emails on Sunday night,interrupting family dinners,
(29:58):
having the effect on vacation.
So I really felt like my pastjobs affected my mental health
and my health and everything.
So I think if I were to dosomething like that, I would
have to.
Have some limits of like, okay,I'm on, I'm here with you every
(30:19):
day, Monday through Friday, ormaybe Saturdays till four.
there would have to be someboundaries because I don't ever
wanna get into a situation likeI was before.
In my past life jobs.
Right.
Yeah, that's a really good pointbecause I think that kind of
defeats the purpose of it isthat these people would want
somebody accessible At anypoint, you know, and, and
(30:40):
probably, you know, crises don'thappen within a certain
timeframe, but at the samepoint, you know, for people like
us, and I agree with you withlike the boundary thing and like
setting that and everything.
I'm at that point too, where Idon't, I think it would kind of
just, it wouldn't, it wouldn'twork out, you know?
So it sounds good in theory tobe like, oh, okay, I'm available
to you during these times, kindof thing.
(31:01):
But it, more than likely, peoplewould probably have stuff
outside of that and they'd belike, well, what's the purpose
of this?
And it probably would.
I mean, there are probablytherapists that do that and
would love to do that.
Like, especially if they're, youknow.
Don't have bad work experiencesin the past and like aren't,
don't have PTSD from their pastjobs.
Yep.
Yeah.
So I mean like, but I mean itcould be, it could actually be
(31:23):
really fun, like if you do that,especially if you have two or
three the clients that you loveand you're just like, okay, this
is really good.
I think it would be more likecoaching.
I think that would kind ofviolate, some feelings of
privacy and us getting tooenmeshed in their lives and then
us setting boundaries and thenknowing us as people.
Like if we're spending that muchtime, I'm not saying that
(31:45):
that's, a bad thing to a certaindegree, but I think it would
push the limits of it.
Yeah.
so it would be very tough, but Idon't know, maybe some people
are able to find a model thatworks for them.
I don't know, but personally Iwould not be interested in it
because I think it would kind ofdefeat the purpose and then you
just feel guilty and stressedout and worried about them when
you're outside of that time.
Yeah, I don't think I could doit.
(32:05):
No.
'cause then, then you do, you'realways tied to your phone.
Do you have to see them inperson because it's like a
concierge, like, you know, theyprobably want more, you know,
like it's, right.
So you're kind of on call, likeeven if you say like, I'm not
available, you kind of are oncall.
Yeah.
Then you only see people in yourtown because you wanna be like,
okay, I have to see them inperson within 20 minutes or so.
(32:28):
I guess there'd be a lot ofdifferent things you'd have to
see when you create thecontract.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, it really would be reallytough, I think.
Yeah, that's what I was thinkingof all of that and watching this
movie, I couldn't help but thinkof the practicals of that, and I
was like, I know it's a movie.
It's ridiculous.
I know therapists are, you know,we don't even know if he's a
psychiatrist or a psychologist.
Yeah, they just call him doctor.
or if he has the degree that Dr.
(32:49):
Phil has, like I,
Tanya (32:51):
yeah, yeah.
Sports psych,
Erin (32:53):
Yeah.
And I mean, so we don't reallyknow what it is that, you know,
and it's a movie.
Yeah.
So it's really, you know, right.
About, thinking about that, butI just couldn't, it like made me
ugh, like anxious Just kind ofthinking about that.
But then I was like, it wasjust, it was funny and Right.
so you know, buddy really.
Pushes the limits with Dave andhe's like, you know, this starts
to move in on Linda.
(33:13):
And basically is just likeslowly taking over that
relationship and then, gets herto say, oh, we need time apart
with Dave.
And then he discovers that abuddy is dating her.
Thinks that, you know, they'regoing to a ball game and he
thinks, oh my God, I told him myidea of a proposal.
He is gonna propose to her.
Buddy must have told the guys inthe group, okay, this is what's
(33:36):
happening.
You guys need to go to Dave'shouse and let him know.
That I am at the Yankees game,And the girls to like attend
with him and to go to thatrestaurant kind of thing.
so that's another thing that'sreally tricky, like getting
people involved that are likealso getting therapy to help
someone else getting therapy.
(33:56):
Like it's just a whole messthere.
yeah.
So they must have been kind ofin on it, at least in that part.
And maybe they got free therapyfor doing that, you know?
'cause it doesn't seem likeSuper ethical all the time.
and it's interesting'cause thatwas like the last thing.
He's probably like, oh gosh, if,if Dave does not come to the
game and do something, then he'sfailed.
you know, this has to be thething that's gonna trigger him
(34:18):
and he was probably so happywhen he saw him get onto the
field and then Woody Harrelsonlets him, lets him on.
He is like, okay, I gotta go.
And then, buddy runs to the, youknow, up to the, wherever it is,
Tanya (34:33):
bike.
Erin (34:33):
Yeah.
and then still I was likethinking like, oh my gosh,
buddy, he's such a jerk.
'cause I still had no idea whatwas happening.
I was just thinking like, okay,buddy's gonna.
make them put the, you know,will you marry me right now?
not realizing that he was in onit and he was, on team Dave.
He wanted Dave to propose.
(34:54):
This is all like yeah, just toget him to express his feelings
and to not procrastinate Say,take what he wants and do what
he wants.
Yeah.
I mean, some of the lessons werekind of like, okay, he attacked,
he attacked him and gave himlike a broken neck or whatever,
or sprained neck.
And at one point when he saidthat they're in love, he
attacked him.
And then he also got into afight with a monk.
(35:14):
some of the lessons were likekind of.
He responded in violence, whichhe was like, okay, let's keep
working on this.
So this was kind of like the,okay, yeah.
Something that's reallyimportant to him.
Is he gonna fight for this?
And he did.
And Linda's like, okay, I willaccept this, or if you kiss me
in front of all these people,and that's, and he wouldn't even
kiss her in public, like, youknow, at the airport.
(35:34):
He would shake her.
He shook her hand because he islike, all right, somebody's
looking.
I can't, I can't kiss you ifsomebody's looking.
Yeah, he's got a high amount,high amount of social anxiety.
Very much.
You know, you pass.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, and then Yeah, forsure.
Yeah.
Then we got to see, hedefinitely learned his lessons.
Yeah.
Then, yeah, I, we were talkingtoo, like even Rudy Giuliani was
(35:54):
in there, you know, like thatwas when, before he became how
he's now, you know?
But he he was when he wasbeloved.
Yeah.
When he was beloved.
And you know, the, I rememberthe person's name, it's Rob
Snider.
That does that.
You can do it.
You can do it.
Yeah.
He throws that in.
He is, it's like a running themein in his movies.
(36:16):
Yeah.
His cast of characters andthemes and people and yeah,
it's, it's all Adam and we loveit.
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
So.
He learns, you know, Hey, yougotta fight for this because you
could lose it all.
You could lose your, yourgirlfriend that you love, the
person you love.
You could lose your freedom.
You could go to jail and youknow, if you attack people'cause
you haven't spoken out againstthis the whole time kind of
(36:36):
thing.
And yeah.
And so he learns like, Hey,this, this is worth fighting
for.
When it's kind of on the smallerlevel.
I can't avoid it because I couldlose all of this.
That's kind of the big lesson.
Which is definitely works.
And then, you know, everything'sgreat.
He graduates from therapy, theyhold a graduation ceremony and
sing.
I Feel Pretty, which is encircleeach other, holding hands and
(36:59):
whole group.
Yep.
And Dave plays a whole joke onthem, like, like pretending like
somebody's coming after them andto, to scare them to kind of
show like, Hey, I'm in control.
I can, I can stick up formyself.
Yeah.
The guy from, he's like, oh, areyou buddy Rydel?
Yeah, so everything works outgreat movie.
Can't do that in therapy.
(37:20):
No.
Obviously it's not in real life,but no, good, good movie.
And it's fine too becausehonestly, when we picked this
movie, like I was telling you, Iwas like, I know I've seen this
movie, which once, once I, onceit finished, I was like, oh
yeah, I saw this movie, but I.
Forgot the whole premise of it.
So it was a nice surprisebecause I did not even realize
that, Jack Nicholson was atherapist.
(37:41):
I had no idea that I justfigured Adam Sandler was this
angry guy.
You know, I was thinking it wasgonna be the opposite.
I was thinking like Adam wasjust like a hot head the whole
time and was trying to calmdown, but he wasn't.
Yeah, I, I had a similar like, Idon't know, memory or whatever
that's called, the, thebutterfly effect or whatever,
that they're, what is thatMandela effect?
(38:02):
The Mandela Effect, yeah.
That they're calling it orwhatever.
I don't know.
I, I don't know if that evenapplies here, but Yeah, I
thought the same thing.
I was like, I kind of had thesememories of it that I was like,
I'm thinking of another movie,so I think we were thinking of,
but yeah, so.
Are you ready for?
Yes.
This is my favorite part.
Our challenge question?
Yes.
Oh, a challenge?
Yes.
Okay.
well, I guess maybe not achallenge.
(38:22):
Maybe a fantastical challenge.
Okay.
So if you were to conduct thesame type of therapy mm-hmm.
That Dr.
Wright does, except, you know,obviously like not, you know,
whatever, if you were able to dothat.
Yeah.
What would your area of focusbe?
Oh, for that?
What would you wanna do?
(38:42):
Oh, I would do some, like hedoes anger management.
Yeah.
But like, you know, so this ismaking me think of Mari Povich.
Like, or, or was it Marvi MariPovich or Geraldo that would all
of a sudden, like you're like,oh, you're afraid of spiders.
Guess what?
Now there's a whole room ofspiders or you are afraid of
this.
Like he did the ultimateexposure therapy.
(39:05):
So I would like to, like if Idid something like that, I think
it would be fun to, maybe notanger management, but maybe even
try to find, okay, what issomeone's biggest, like their
phobia?
So they're afraid of.
Spiders.
Well, spiders I would not wannado, but if they're afraid of
like funny rabbits or they'reafraid of like Monty Python or
(39:26):
something, but like if they'reafraid of something, some sort
of creature or something, Iwould like to figure out their
phobias and do exposure therapyof like, oh, you don't like
trains.
We're going on a big long trainride.
Oh, you don't like this.
We're gonna go, you know,skydiving.
I'm not gonna skydiving.
But if we did something like, Iwould like to do something like
(39:48):
that.
'cause I think that would bekind of fun.
Like specific phobias.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's so funny.
That's exactly the way, that'sexactly what I was thinking.
Like I, I thought about myanswer to this.
'cause I, I actually thoughtabout this last night as I was
falling asleep for some oddreason And I was like, I would
do specific phobias because I, Ithink that probably feels more
concrete and feels like it wouldbe beneficial mm-hmm.
For this.
(40:08):
so that probably feels good tobe able to do, but Yeah.
I agree.
I think it would be, kind ofsatisfying to be able to see and
be like, okay, what is somethingthat we can make some progress
on That we can see and help thisperson through this And see the
results.
And I think too, that feels morelike you could do, it could be
more behavioral focus too.
Like if you need to have thatdata, like, okay, well they
(40:30):
lasted one second, or theydidn't last at all.
Or we had to, you know, it Tedback like 10 steps and now you
know, whatever.
it could be interesting and Iinstantly thought of like, I
think all of them did it.
I think Geraldo did it.
I think Montel did it.
I think Jerry Springer did itthe most.
Yeah.
Honestly.
Oh, I'm sure he did.
Here's a room full of snakes,you know, like, yeah, yeah.
(40:51):
Oh, you're afraid of your, Idon't know, clown confronting
your, your child's, potentialfather and like, not knowing who
it is.
Oh, they're here.
They heard everything.
Here they are kind of thing.
Let's do it right now.
The better the confrontation,the, you know, the.
Funny.
But yeah, so that's angermanagement.
(41:12):
ours would be phobia, it wouldbe a management phobia fighting
or something.
Jerry Springer, whatever wewould come up with, you know.
Or else if you could do a JerrySpringer style therapy, that
might be fun.
I would totally not do thatbecause I would be like, oh my
gosh, we cannot do this untilfirst.
No, I would not do, I don't evenwanna do family therapy or
(41:33):
couples counseling, so I wouldnot wanna do Jerry Springer
style, but yeah, I'm sure somepeople would love that.
Yeah.
That might be their, theirniche.
I don't know.
But yeah, so that, that's angermanagement.
Let us know what you think.
if we left anything out orsomething else you found.
Funny, entertaining some otherpoints about mental health or
(41:53):
just in general.
we like it all.
And next show, we're gonna getaway from Adam for a minute, but
he's coming back.
Don't worry.
and again, as always, if youguys ever have any suggestions
or.
Eighties, nineties, or today ofanything.
It doesn't have to just be Adam,but let us know.
Yeah, we do really like Adam,but yeah, he is great.
yeah, so, you know, don't forgetto like, subscribe, follow,
(42:16):
we're on all the socials,including YouTube, so you can
see our lovely faces.
Mm-hmm.
And, follow along.
But yeah.
So, yeah, I think that's it.
don't forget, stay wicked andkeep your mind well.
All right.
Have a great week.
Bye.
Bye guys.
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