February 10, 2025 • 63 mins
Join us as we explore the journey of turning inner struggles into sources of strength through the practice of mental toughness. This episode emphasizes cultivating a kind relationship with oneself, the importance of supportive environments, and the transformative power of consistent action.
• Understanding the balance of kindness and discipline in tough moments
• The impact of surrounding oneself with a positive community
• Personal stories of overcoming learning disabilities and critical moment reflections
• Building mental toughness through daily practices of gratitude and self-belief
• The importance of striving for progress rather than perfection
If you're looking for a supportive community dedicated to enhancing discipline and accountability in 2025, check out the Unshakeable Discipline Mastermind, offering exclusive access to coaching and resources to help you live your best life!
Thank you for tuning in! If you feel led, please subscribe & share the show to others who you believe would benefit from it.
Keep in touch below!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
being kind to yourself in those moments, not
to the point that you can'tperform, but knowing when the
levers are there, knowing wherethe levers are to pull.
Grace and kindness versus likethis is the time to really like
push it, but hating on yourself,like calling yourself an idiot
or, you know, demeaning yourself, like that's not how you
(00:20):
cultivate a relationship withthe demons.
Those are the demons.
And so I've learned how tocultivate a relationship with my
demons through what we know asmental toughness, and mental
toughness as a practice ofgratitude, self-belief,
self-trust, understanding thatthese things that we really care
about at a high level, like meand you, are the answer to
(00:42):
handling those demons, and youhave to cultivate that courage
on a daily basis.
That's why it's a practice.
It's not, it's a practice oflaw, a practice of medicine, a
practice of mental toughness.
Like these are things that youdo over and over and over again,
to the point that it becomesingrained in your identity that
this is just who you are right.
So I have learned how tocultivate that relationship by
(01:06):
doing these things over and overand over again, regardless to
the point where it's, regardlessof how I feel, like if my
elbows feel like they're goingto fall off after I've done a
thousand plus pull-ups.
I'm still going to get up thereuntil I deliver a thousand
eighteen, even when my dad islooking at me in the eye and
said you've done enough for 1018, even when my dad is looking at
(01:29):
me in the eye and said you'vedone enough.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Welcome to the Wednesday podcast, a weekly
resource thoughtfully crafted tohelp people build and refine
discipline, accomplish theirgoals, fortify their mindsets
and be of service to somebody inthis world.
My name is Ryan Cass and I amyour host, and it is my mission
and commitment to deliveramazing episodes to you every
week where you will learn frommyself or renowned expert in
their field.
We love helping people win inevery aspect of their lives, and
(01:57):
you can help us win by sharingthe show with somebody that you
believe will benefit from itsubscribing and leaving a rating
and review with somebody thatyou believe will benefit from it
subscribing and leaving arating and review.
We believe that everybody inthis world is meant to do
something great with their livesand we're here to help play a
(02:17):
role in that.
Thank you for tuning in andlet's win today.
Someone's environment is often akey indicator for their success
who they surround themselveswith, the information that they
choose to consume day in and dayout, their daily habits the
whole gamut.
I'm honored to bring someone onthat is a key in my environment
(02:38):
, someone that absolutelyinspires me and a plethora of
people all over the world, dayin and day out.
I looked up the definition ofinspired before this podcast and
it goes as this fill someonewith the urge or ability to do
or feel something, and JonathanCohen is somebody that fills me
(03:04):
with the urge to push myselfharder and further than I
believe possible and to be thebest servant leader that I can
possibly be.
He is a father, an attorney, avoracious giver and servant,
ultra marathon runner and hostof the Inside the Inspired
(03:27):
podcast.
Jonathan, welcome, brother.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
That might be the best introduction of me I've
ever heard.
Ryan, my man, thank you, andit's funny how you say I push
you when you're the one runningfurther, running faster, running
along the curve with your shirton in crazier environments.
(03:51):
Bro, pleasure to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I believe that speaks to the power of the environment
right there.
I remember coming across you onLinkedIn a few months ago,
coming across you on LinkedIn afew months ago, and I believe
that that's why it's soimportant for people to operate
in alignment with whatever theirpurpose is, day in and day out,
because I believe it createsthis magnetic force that it's
(04:16):
going to draw the right peopleto you and people that are also
committed to leveling up.
So I look forward to going onLinkedIn or social media in the
morning and having content thataligns with my purpose and
seeing you out there at 5 am, 20degrees, going on a 10 mile run
(04:39):
.
It really is powerful and Iknow that I'm echoed by many in
saying that.
You inspire me and I love thatwe get to do this.
I said a lot of cool thingsabout you, but what do you
believe is most important forthe world to know about Jonathan
(04:59):
Cohen?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh, wow.
I think the most importantthing that I would hope the
world knows about me is that I'msomeone who couldn't and now
I'm someone who can.
And the reason I think that'simportant is because you talked
about the definition ofinspiration, and there's a great
(05:22):
sentiment that always hits andresonates with me People won't
remember your name, but theywill remember your impact, and
for me, the impact is, you know,you talked about serving
leadership.
It's really about the type ofnot not legacy in terms of, oh,
(05:45):
you'll remember my name, but theworld will know I was here
because of the impact that Imade in the positive ripples
that I created, even if theydon't remember Jonathan Cohen
specifically.
And so the most important thingthat I would hope people know
about me is that I believe it'spossible if someone who
(06:06):
struggled with learningdisabilities, struggled with
labels, struggled with identity,struggled with just his
self-image and his self-talk,that it's so possible If you,
you don't have to like havethese crazy, like beliefs, you
(06:27):
don't have to take some crazypill, you don't have to like
read one book, you don't have tolike watch one youtube video.
Transformation is a series ofmoments and like.
If you understand that premise,then you have more patience
with yourself and you kind oftake this timeline off of like
in this crazy sense of urgencyfor me to reach this destination
, and you learn of take thistimeline off of like in this
crazy sense of urgency from youto reach this destination, and
(06:47):
you learn to become more processdriven and do things that fall
in alignment.
And so what I would hope peopletake away from anything that I
share is like you can do thingsthat you want to do too and you
can get better at them over time.
I never imagined that when Ipicked up a David Goggins book
or found out or discovered ultrarunning, that I would be
(07:11):
raising tens and tens ofthousands of dollars, like you,
for running crazy distances forwhat feels like no reason.
But that's impact and that iswhat I think.
Over time I've come to learnthrough thousands of reps,
thousands of miles and thousandsof hours invested in trying to
(07:34):
be better.
So that's what I would hope theworld knows about me that if I
can, you definitely can.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, and what I'm hearing is that struggles can
shape our path, with the rightmindset to see beyond the
struggle and perhaps what itcould be giving you in that
moment.
And I love to understand frompeople that are so committed to
(08:02):
doing what you're doing and thatcreating ripple effect for
others and really focusing onimpact it's usually driven by
something very deep, and when Iwas doing my research on you and
you mentioned it as well thatin your early years you
struggled with reading,comprehension and critical
(08:23):
thinking.
So bring us back to what Iunderstand to be the genesis for
being so committed to helpingothers, and those struggles that
ultimately created thisbeautiful path that you're on
right now.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Thanks, man.
It really starts with thismoment in particular that I was
in high school.
I worked with my parents.
We had hired a collegecounselor outside of the public
school system to help mecoordinate a path to get into
college.
(09:01):
To get into college, and longstory long, I ended up finding a
dream school, muhlenbergCollege.
And when I brought it up to hershe laughed in my parents' face
and mine so audibly that Icould still hear it ringing and
said to me in front of myparents your are gonna have to
(09:22):
buy a building in order for youto get in there.
And it was a very humblingmoment for a kid that, like I'm
not gonna say I was the beststudent, I'm not gonna say I did
my homework it's not like I wasdoing my best but I definitely
didn't want that to be somethingmy parents had to do to get me
(09:45):
into college.
And so it became an inflectionpoint where, like I'm gonna
prove this woman wrong, like I'mgonna prove her so wrong she
won't even know what hit her,and I started to take steps and
put energy into doing the workto get into college and so I
(10:07):
ended up going for an interview.
Interview goes great, but myacademic credentials weren't
enough.
But because the interview wentgreat and the stars aligned in a
way that I end up meeting theinterviewer outside of the
interview room because she hadbeen walking into the halls of
the academic office that I wasgetting interviewed in.
I ended up holding the door forher a couple times.
(10:29):
She was carrying books.
She ends up being theinterviewer.
We get along.
And so she's like I'm gonnarecommend you and I'm thinking,
wow, I got into mulemberg, thisis great.
And then, like two, three dayslater, uh, we get a call from
her and she's like yeah, wecan't take your grades and SATs
aren't good enough.
And I'm like, god damn, likewhat?
(10:51):
I was so hyped for a couple ofdays and you know, me and my
family are like what can we do?
And so she advised, you know wecould reach out to the dean of
admissions.
And so dean of admissionsinitially won't meet with me.
My dad gets on the phone withhim.
He goes when was the last timeyou met with someone for five
minutes and you changed theirlife?
Guy ends up meeting with me.
(11:13):
We drive down.
I don't remember what came overme, but I end up saying to the
dean I want to be able to shakeyour hand at the end of four
years and say thank you for theopportunity.
And so what happened was he tookme on a conditional acceptance
that I had to start, that I hadto finish school and I had to
maintain a certain GPA andcertain credentials in order to
(11:36):
be admitted for the followingyear.
So I had to take thisinevitable year off and I end up
enlisting in the Israelimilitary.
I end up holding the academicgrades that I needed, I get the
conditional acceptance, I meetthe requirements and so I enlist
in the Israeli military for ayear infantry combat.
And while I was there, I wantedto extend.
(11:57):
My grandparents were Holocaustsurvivors and I visited the
concentration camps when I wasin high school.
So ends up being three daysafter I graduate high school, I
enlist in the military.
One year turns to two, and thediscipline that I learned in the
military, the time managementthat I learned in the military,
the self-belief and the languageand the energy and skills that
(12:19):
I learned in the military allhelped me cultivate a baseline
for how to operate and holdmyself out into society.
And so, over time, I eventuallyended up going to college.
College became law school Lawschool, business school I did a
four-year JD MBA program.
I end up taking a position as acriminal prosecutor in the
(12:43):
Bronx where I was a specialvictims prosecutor for three
years and I prosecuted hundredsof domestic violence crimes.
I investigated all differenttypes of crazy crime in the
Bronx which is extremely highvolume and very, very dangerous,
and that really kind of gave mea crazy sense of self-belief
(13:03):
and how to investigate how tohandle things, how to manage my
emotions and we can get intothat how to handle pressure.
And the genesis of it reallywas that one moment that I got
to tell that college counselorlike they didn't have to buy a
building, I got it anyway.
She didn't even remember orcare.
It never really carried thatmuch weight for her, but for me
(13:25):
that was really the mainspringboard that made a
difference in how I started tochange my life and take steps
towards my future.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Getting into some mental reframing, which we can
certainly turned into went fromthe maybe the worst compliment I
(13:55):
don't want to say complimentbecause that's where I'm going,
but the most degrading thingsomebody could have said ended
up probably it sounds like to mebecoming the best compliment
she could have given you.
Because what I think about afew instances in my life where
people have told me I can't.
Now, if someone says that, Ijust smile because in my mind,
(14:20):
where it goes, and I'm curiouswhat, what would, what would
take place in your mind rightnow If somebody said, jonathan,
you can't run a hundred miles,there's no way.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, where do you go yeah, that doesn't phase me.
There's too much evidence atthis point that not even I can
question, right Like it.
It just becomes that thing that, um, you've just shown yourself
over and over and over againthat you're ruminating and
wasting your time by investingin the feeling and listen every
(14:53):
day.
You know there's people at workor there's people in life and
there's people in the DMs thathave to, like, say their
whatever they have to say, andusually it's also people that
you love very dearly that alsohave an opinion.
Right, I'm sure you get itquite a lot that there's a lot
of risk in the hundreds of milesthat you're running and
thousands of dollars that you'reraising and the crazy things
(15:17):
that you've accomplished overthe course of your career as a
runner and as a professional,and like, it's just one of those
things where you can't wastetime investing the energy into.
Well, why doesn't that personthink this about me?
Or don't they get it already?
Like I've shown myself thisenough that, no, I can't.
I don't have the bandwidth toplay that game anymore.
I have to focus my energystrategically and in a way that
(15:41):
allows me to grow and beeffective, and I can't be
effective if I'm spending somuch time in imposter syndrome
or calling myself out.
I talk about the demons a lot.
I mean Goggins talks about thedemons too.
I know I've already referencedthem twice, but I promise I've
read hundreds of other books.
It's just one of those thingsthat's relatable because they
(16:03):
can also be gremlins.
Right 40 miles into a 58 milerun, like there's tears running
down my face.
My wife is asking me if I'mokay, my mom's telling me I
could stop anytime.
My daughter's playing on thefloor and I'm like I just I'm
like why did I decide to do this?
Like what was I thinking?
(16:23):
Like no one cares.
Like this doesn't make adifference.
Like even if I thought aboutall the kids that I was helping,
it's like why did I have to beso overly ambitious?
Like, why did I have to endurethis pain?
And then, at mile over mile 50,the last eight miles.
Like some of those miles I wasrunning sub eight minute miles
you know, and like it's just oneof those things that you have
(16:44):
to go through, that transitionof like getting those gremlins,
getting those demons out andknowing that after they've been
like just taken out of your bodythrough sheer force.
That like now waking up at 4 30in the morning to go train and
run 10 miles in like sub 20degrees I think it was like
(17:06):
seven degrees the other day likeit.
It's just one of those thingsthat you, you just know who you
are.
I mean, I'm sure if someonewants to tell you the same thing
and be like what?
Where?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
now, okay, like it's, like you're ready to go at any
point, you know yeah, yeah, andand this is such this is perfect
timing for this discussionbecause we're we're two and a
half well, three weeks into anew year.
This is right about the thisdiscussion because we're two and
a half well, three weeks into anew year.
This is right about the timewhere a lot of folks' highs are
ending the new year high.
I'm going to have the besthabits, I'm going to be the most
(17:41):
disciplined, I'm going to leaveall the negative self-talk in
2024.
And for a lot of people rightnow, they had the high and then
now it's like okay, this isactual work and some people are
going to start going on thedecline.
The gym is starting to becomemore open in the morning, it's
(18:04):
easy to get on the bench press,etc.
Etc.
You've built a really strongrelationship with the we'll call
them the quote demons.
How can somebody build arelationship with the voices
that are encouraging them tostop and allow them to keep
(18:25):
pushing themselves forward?
Because you know your journey,you know obviously there was a
point in time where the demonsstopped you and now they're
still going to visit.
They'll visit anybody, theyeven visit Goggins.
But people like you have arelationship with it to where
now it's just noise and you keepgoing forward.
So how can someone build that?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
It's important to note that they show up in not
just running.
Running, like in so manydifferent areas, right and like,
running is just one area wherethey're so palpable and like,
potent and in your face thatwhen you're forced to face them,
first thing, it allows you tochannel an energy throughout the
(19:09):
day that builds that confidencebecause you kept a promise to
yourself.
You did the thing that you saidthat you were going to do.
So you have proof for yourselfthat you are someone who says
they're going to do the thingthat they say they're going to
do.
And I have built a relationshipwith my demons that I
understand where they populate,demons that I understand where
(19:35):
they populate, and I will have aconversation with myself that
sometimes is like oh, shut up,all right time to go.
And it's even as simple as likethe other day when I was
running I took out the garbageon recycling day.
And like my time in the morningis very like the minutes count,
because I got like 90 minutesof driving every day.
Like, like my time in themorning is very like the minutes
count, cause I got like a 90minutes of driving every day.
Like I got two kids, I got awife.
I got a house, like I, uh, Igot this crazy training regimen,
(19:58):
I got a pot, a job, likethere's all these things that
are going on where I'm spreadvery thin, and so, like I make
my seconds and minutes reallycount.
So during the run I'm thinkingabout how I have to go and
switch the recycling to thegarbage, to the recycling and
I'm like those are preciousseconds and moments and minutes
that I can't spare because Ivalue my time and just it's like
(20:20):
, oh, maybe you do it after, butthen you miss recycling and
like, just so conversationstarts about literally about
garbage Crazy, right, yeah, andyou have to manage that
conversation, knowing when it'stime to tell yourself to shut up
and do the work and knowingwhen it's time to give yourself
grace and love yourself.
(20:41):
So I have learned over time howto be kind to myself through
experience.
So, like, going back to justyou know we're both runners and
it's easy metaphors.
But I can give other examples,like I'll give another example
outside of running stepping onstage and speaking in front of
hundreds of people, or gettingup in front of 20 plus people to
(21:07):
talk about a case where a veryheinous crime occurred and
someone's liberty is on the lineand the stakes are very high
for the victim, for the witness,for the defendant, for the
attorneys, for justice, whateverthat looks like and your name
is on the docket and you'rerepresenting the facts and
(21:27):
circumstance and people of thecounty and you have to be able
to portray things accurately andpeople have opinions.
There's order that needs to bemaintained and there's a lot of
things that can go wrong,whether it's the paperwork, or
someone spends a second longerin jail than they're supposed to
, or you misrepresent somethinginaccurately and someone suffers
as a result, whether it be thedefendant or the victim or a
(21:49):
witness, whoever it is.
There's a lot of things that godown that you're responsible
for, and so being kind toyourself in those moments not to
the point that you can'tperform, but knowing when the
levers are there, knowing wherethe levers are to pull, grace
and kindness versus like this isthe time to really like push it
, but hating on yourself, likecalling yourself an idiot or,
(22:13):
you know, demeaning yourself,like that's not how you
cultivate a relationship withthe demons.
Those are the demons, and soI've learned how to cultivate a
relationship with my demonsthrough what we know is mental
toughness, and mental toughnessis a practice of gratitude,
self-belief, self-trust,understanding that these things
that we really care about at ahigh level, like me and you, are
(22:38):
the answer to handling thosedemons, and you have to
cultivate that courage on adaily basis.
That's why it's a practice.
It's not, it's a practice oflaw, a practice of medicine, a
practice of mental toughnessLike these are things that you
do over and over and over again,to the point that it becomes
ingrained in your identity thatthis is just who you are.
(22:58):
So I have learned how tocultivate that relationship by
doing these things over and overand over again, regardless to
the point where it's, regardlessof how I feel.
And over again, regardless tothe point where it's, regardless
of how I feel, like if myelbows feel like they're going
to fall off after I've done athousand plus pull-ups, I'm
still going to get up thereuntil I deliver a thousand
eighteen, even when my dad islooking at me in the eye and
(23:20):
said you've done enough, evenwhen I'm about to faint because
I didn't know how to fuelproperly for strength, endurance
, like that, and my brotherlooks across from me and he's
like foxhole motherfucker, likewe're in this thing together,
like it's those moments thatwhen the demons arise
physiologically or mentally oremotionally, or in the form of
(23:43):
someone you love or that yourespect their opinion and admire
, you have to cultivate theconversation internally in a way
that allows you to buildyourself up.
And building yourself up doesn'tmean I'm the greatest, it
doesn't mean I'm feelingoutstanding.
It means one step at a time, itmeans one stride at a time, it
means one breath at a time, itmeans just go one more.
(24:06):
It means do one more thingbefore you quit, go for one more
day.
That one more line in that book, and those simple things have
made a massive difference in howI approach those demons on a
daily basis.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It sounds like proving yourself right by taking
action on the things that yousaid you're going to do is what
will then cultivate thatconfidence and strengthen that
belief system.
That, all right.
I said I was going to go outand do this difficult task in
the morning, whether it is a runor something at work, and by
(24:42):
doing that, even when maybe Idon't want to, then, okay, now
I'm giving myself some juice,like, okay, that felt really
good, let's keep this enginerolling.
Wouldn't it be awesome ifmotivation was this thing that
when we're getting dressed inthe morning, we're putting on
our shoes, we're taking oursupplements, and then, okay, let
(25:06):
me go grab this motivation realquick and take my motivation
supplement.
But motivation follows action.
So, by building a system aroundcommitting to small actions for
yourself so if this iscompletely new to somebody in
2025, even as small as okay, I'mgoing to wake up early and
(25:30):
stretch for 10 minutes Great andgo do that thing, and then that
can evolve into more difficultthings.
And now you're strengtheningthat belief system.
You're learning how to pushpast these demons on your
shoulders that want you to stayin bed or justify not going
after your goals, and anotherthing people can do is just
(25:53):
follow you and subscribe, andit'll be pretty hard to not take
action on your things.
You know, but you brought upimposter syndrome, and that's
another thing that I really want.
Now I'm starting to focus thisconversation on a few things
that we both understand peoplestruggle with and, especially in
(26:14):
the new year, a lot of peopleare asking the how?
Questions how do I set goals,how do I become more motivated,
how do I push the demons aside?
You were on the HigherAlignment podcast fairly
recently and you brought up thisbeautiful analogy from Alex
Hormozy on how you overcame I'mway too mainstream Overcame
(26:39):
imposter syndrome, bro.
But just basically, what didthat look like for you?
Because I feel that that'ssomething that we all have bouts
with.
Even the best of the best havebouts with it as well, you know,
but we often glorify them andassume that they don't have
(27:01):
internal battles as well, butthey do and we get to talk to
them, and many of them thatwe've had on our shows often
share that and that they'rehuman.
So what did that look like foryou?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I got to stop quoting Hormozy and Goggins.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Everyone's going to think I only read two different
books, but I digress the factthat they're that, I believe it
just speaks to the level ofimpact that they have.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah, I think that too.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It's not that, that's all you you know, it's not that
you're a, a goggin ted.
You know, and everything is allyou know.
Whatever goggins would do, thenI'm gonna do.
I don't believe that, but youknow, those are two people,
going back to the beginning ofwhat you said, like, what would
you want to be known for?
Impact and you.
Those just happen to be twopeople that have created an
(27:52):
enormous impact in this world.
So A hundred percent, yeah.
So let's, let's talk throughthat.
How was, what was thatinfluence and and the
relationship with impostersyndrome?
For you, discipline is a keycomponent of this podcast and a
key thing that we preach.
(28:14):
We view discipline as the fuelto help you create the life that
you ultimately desire, anddiscipline being the fuel that
gets your habits and systems incheck so that you can actually
accomplish your goals.
Your habits and systems incheck so that you can actually
accomplish your goals.
If you're looking to level upin 2025, I am happy to be a part
(28:39):
of that and encourage you tojoin the Unshakable Discipline
Mastermind Group.
This has been my baby for acouple years and we're finally
launching it here in 2025.
The group consists of aself-paced course that teaches
you how to form core habits andmindset that will allow you to
accomplish your goals.
A daily accountability channelto keep you on track, motivated
(29:00):
and in alignment with ourmembers.
And weekly mastermind sessionswhere you're going to learn from
either myself or a suite ofrenowned guests many who have
been on the podcast that aregoing to share pieces of their
winning playbooks directly withyou.
I've learned that being a partof groups over the years has
(29:22):
helped propel me to so many newlevels in life.
If you want to go fast, go alone.
If you want to go far, then gotogether, and it's my wish that
the Unshakable Crew is a choicethat makes sense for you in 2025
.
We are growing up to 100members this year and have
(29:46):
limited time founding memberpricing for 12 more folks before
we permanently increase pricingto $97 a month.
You can get in now for $67 amonth, locked in for life, and
be a part of the adventure thatwe're creating with our members.
If you're somebody that cravesdiscipline, seeks it or wants it
(30:10):
this year, and you're reallycommitted to making lasting
changes in your life and beingaround others that are committed
to winning and serving theworld and sharing what they
learn with others so that wemake this world a better place,
then join the Unshakable crew.
Go to unshakabledisciplinecomand you can sign up.
(30:32):
It is also in the show notesUnshakeable shake, as in
milkshake,unshakabledisciplinecom, and
we're excited to have you in2025.
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Imposter syndrome haunted me for years, especially
as somebody who felt soaccomplished that like no matter
what I had done and I'd donesome pretty cool things, like
objectively, that now I canshare humbly uh but it wasn't
enough for me to believe inmyself because certain results
(31:08):
and certain brands and names andperspectives that I had had
about what quote, success lookslike you have to go work for
that company, you have to gowork for that school, or you
have to go work for thatopportunity, or you have to go
after that opportunity thatthose benchmarks became what I
considered successful.
And even when I started to goup against certain attorneys who
(31:34):
had gone to Yale or Harvard orif I was a summer associate when
I was a summer associate in aprogram and I'm a first year and
all of these Ivy Leaguers aresurrounding me or other people
from schools that got into theprogram, but those schools
didn't take me.
I'm going up against them in amock trial and I'm getting
(31:57):
called out for giving the bestclosing amongst all of those
attorneys or, I guess, lawstudents at the time, like I
didn't know how to process in myhead that I had an ability or
that I was skilled enough,because my definition of success
(32:20):
was associated with thecredentials that somebody else
had, and so I measured and Iovercompensated in ways that
allowed me to reflect my skillset in a way that was effective,
like that closing in a mocktrial versus the internal
(32:41):
dialogue that I was having withmyself around.
You know, stop pretending likeyou can keep up, or stop
pretending that you can keep up,you're as good as you think you
are.
Like there's a reason they gotinto those schools.
Like just wasting my time withunnecessary like meaningful.
(33:03):
And I'm, candidly, like at thepoint where I can't even
necessarily recall all of thoseinternal conversations, because
I've just cemented so muchpositivity into my life and I've
injected it through experienceinto my life.
And I've injected it throughexperience into my life, but a
(33:43):
lot of it was about how Iperceived other people, instead
of me focusing on myself,instead of me focusing on
delivering the best clothingthat I could deliver than I did
on my trail of evidence thathelped me assess and establish.
This is who I am.
I am someone who got hispilot's license.
I am someone who went to themilitary.
I am someone who got intocollege when all the odds were
against him.
I am someone who started apodcast that tens of thousands
of people have listened to.
I'm someone and like it took us.
Are these metrics real?
Like is that?
(34:03):
Is that content that got 11views?
I guess it's not that goodbecause it's only got 11 views.
But that person messaged me andthey said it really impacted
them and they wanted to.
They wanted to get togetherbecause of it or they rated the
podcast because of it.
Like, I learned to just focusmy attention on where the impact
I was making was felt and italso became this area of like.
(34:27):
Am I diluting myself intothings also just by leaning
towards all the positivereinforcement?
But you kind of have to be theand what I've learned is you
kind of have to.
It's not picking and choosing.
And I interviewed StevenPressfield, global bestselling
author.
Millions of copies of his bookssold all over.
Joe Rogan gives it out as likea book to some of his guests and
(34:48):
you know he talks aboutrationalization and the war of
art.
I don't know if you've read itand it's this idea that we
rationalized our behavior andrationalization is also a form
of procrastination.
It's this idea that werationalized our behavior and
rationalization is also a formof procrastination.
It's a form of self-sabotage.
I'm going to post about this.
I'm glad you're asking thisquestion.
Rationalization, for me, wassomething that resonated a ton,
(35:12):
because I was justifying everysingle one of my actions Once I
got to a certain level of likeokay, I believe in myself, but
I'm going to train, even thoughI shouldn't or I'm going to do
something that I want to do, butit's going to be because of
this and I wasn't reallymeasuring my progress in a way
(35:35):
that was tangible, I was justgoing by, feel, and so once I
put the objective lens andeliminated the abstract, like
the abstractness around myoutput and my accomplishments, I
was able to lean into a visionand a version of myself that
says, like, okay, I am qualifiedin this area.
(35:58):
I do have a level of expertise.
Based on the hundreds of books,based on the hundreds of
interviews, based on thehundreds of miles, based on the
hundreds of reps, based on theconversations that I've had, the
stages that I've been on, thespeaking at Stanford, like
wherever it is that I was, I wasable to look at the objective
(36:19):
metrics and say, okay, I amtelling myself the wrong story
and I'm wasting my time, theprecious minutes and moments
trying to.
You know, someone gives me acompliment.
I don't know how to take acompliment.
Well, it's not good if youdon't know how to take a
compliment.
Actually, you should learn howto say thank you.
You don't have to put yourselfdown just because someone gives
(36:40):
you a compliment.
It's actually a very graciousthing to the person that's
giving you a compliment to learnhow to take a compliment.
You don't have to put yourselfdown every single time someone
tries to put you up, right?
People self-sabotage in thosesubtle ways that imposter
syndrome, uh, just undercutstheir ability to to create more,
(37:02):
to offer more, to give more,and and it prevents progress.
You know, and most people aretheir own worst enemy.
They think that they'refighting, and they're fighting
the wrong people and they thinkthat they're fighting external
sources, but really it'sthemselves and it's the person
that they see in the mirror.
And so I learned how to get outof my own way a long time ago,
(37:25):
and so I've only learned how tolook forward, since I only look
back to see how far I've come,but at the same time, to reflect
on lessons that I've learned.
And so the relationship reallybecame about how do I look at
myself, in a way, and holdmyself accountable in a way that
I'm still a good person.
(37:45):
I'm still someone who's trying.
I'm also someone who'saccomplished.
I still am not where I want tobe, but I want to make progress
and not let all the white noiseof what someone else has done or
what someone else thinks or allthese other things get in my
way, because it's not allowingme to be the best version of
yourself.
Being the best version ofyourself means you need enough
(38:07):
mental bandwidth to do thethings.
You don't have the bandwidth todo the thing if you're
concerned about what that personthinks.
Right In Viktor Frankl Man'sSearch for Meaning he talks
about when someone leaves yourlife, it makes room for
everything else you have toaccomplish, and so, again, we
have a finite amount of energyto give, so stop wasting it on
(38:29):
things that are preventing youfrom putting that energy into
what could move the needle foryou, you know.
So that's kind of how I'veassessed my relationship with
imposter syndrome and how I wasable to transform it into more
productive energy.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
And encouragement for folks there is that to get over
imposter syndrome is look atthe evidence.
That's something that oftengoes overlooked.
That's something that oftengoes overlooked, but you
reminded yourself of the journeyand all the steps that you have
taken to get to where you werein that moment, or even where
(39:06):
you are right now.
If you're ever battling thosethoughts again now or in the
future, what got me here?
So a question that we can poseto people is what has allowed
you or enabled you to get towhere you are right now?
And I'd be willing to bet thatanybody can list five to 10 to
(39:30):
15 things that has gotten you towhere you are.
And it's often easy to overlookthat because we can look at
somebody else's journey.
I can look at you and say, oh,jonathan, he's had all these big
time people on inside theInspired podcast.
Maybe I'm just not asking theright questions.
(39:51):
Or you know, he must just havethe 10 times better outreach
system than me.
You know who am I to think thatI can get Steven Pressfield on
my podcast.
Or we can look at all the stepsthat have been taken from day
one of this pod in 2021 to whereit is now, and in that journey,
(40:12):
are you familiar with the gapin the gain from dr ben hardy?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I just read someone's post about it, so I know very
tangentially it's.
It's one of the second timeit's coming up.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
It sounds like I need it's one of my favorite books,
but then favorite concepts.
So, basically, the gap in thegain.
People often find themselvesespecially ambitious.
People find themselves livingin the, which means that we
arrive at point X, regardless ofhow monumental of an effort it
(40:46):
was.
So we can take your example ofmost recently running a 58-mile
ultramarathon, which we'll getinto next, raising $29,000.
Amazing, phenomenalaccomplishment.
Living in the gap would meanthat, after all that work you
just did and you've even alludedto what some of that day looked
(41:09):
like that you're then lookingat oh well, I haven't ran 100
miles yet.
And well, look at all theseother people who have ran 100
miles and they raised $40,000,$50,000.
That's living in the gap,because the goalpost is always
moving versus living in the gain.
Okay, what did it take to beable to run 58 miles and raise
(41:34):
$29,000?
Oh, it took thousands of earlymorning wake-ups on the days
that you didn't want to.
It took thousands of miles.
It took dedicated outreach.
It took cultivating a strongnetwork of people that can give
$29,000.
So I often remind myself aswell, zoom out and what has
(41:58):
gotten you to where you areright now?
Because you can find so muchsupporting evidence that you are
capable, you have the tools,you're on the right path and, of
course, there's going to bebumps, and those bumps are to be
embraced.
But I love, I, absolutely,absolutely, I absolutely love
(42:18):
that I I mean the gap in thegain aspect.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I don't know if you experience it with everything
that you've done to multiplehundred mile races, speed demon,
also raising incredible amountsof money, like there just isn't
enough room with all thosemiles and time and energy to
(42:47):
live in that gap there justisn't not.
Not for me, not for you.
Yeah, and it's funny that youtalk about.
It's a great example of the ofthe 58 compared to 100, because
I had this goal when I initiallyset out to do the 58-mile run,
(43:09):
that I wanted to be in this rareclub that I invented Someone
who did 1,000-plus push-ups,pushups, a thousand plus
pull-ups and ran over 50 miles.
I felt like no one did that.
I think the only person or onlycouple of people that I know
that have done it are like DavidGoggins, truett Haynes and me.
(43:30):
Maybe there's like a couple ofpeople who have done a thousand
plus pull-ups and pushups in amarathon, but as far as I know,
uh, those are the only threethat I know.
My research is pretty dense.
I've gone through like all ofthe different fundraisers, I've
gone through like all thesedifferent things and that's what
I've come up with.
If anything, it's like a onepercent of a one percent.
And so I created this kind ofidea to help me separate myself
(43:57):
as somebody.
For me to know I'm in my ownunique unit.
Not that I'm like this crazyfit person, not that I'm this
special dude, just someone whocreated his own little club that
he's allowed in and a veryother select few that put
themselves through all of thepain and rigor and training that
comes along with it.
(44:19):
And once I had finished that 58mile run which, candidly, a year
earlier I probably didn't evenin January, I didn't really
think it was that possible I wasfeeling like I under trained.
I was feeling like I wouldn'tknow how to fuel because I kept
getting sick.
(44:39):
Like there were just so manythings that were unknown that in
the last year or so leading upto it I needed to refine.
And so after that 58 mile run,I had reached this goal that no
one knew or really cared aboutthe 1000, 1050 club and it gave
(45:02):
me this crazy sense of, okay,I've done it.
But you and I know right, thegoalpost moon, it's like well,
what if I could do it all in oneday?
You know like, wouldn't that becool if I just meant like you
know I probably did a couplehours of pull-ups.
You know, do the hour of thepush-ups.
I probably do them back to back.
I could super set them.
And then what if I go for likea 10 hour run after that, I'll
just eat a ton that day.
(45:22):
But like that, that's living inthe gap to your point, right,
and that that's justunnecessarily moving the
goalposts where it's like why amI doing that?
Like that wouldn't make me abetter person, that would just
do more like it.
What are you trying toaccomplish here?
Right, and you know we talked alittle bit about about it
before.
Like I'm trying to write a book,or I am writing a book.
For me that's more of achallenge mentally to put myself
(45:46):
in a space where I can write abook that, if one person reads,
or no one reads, or if I'm theonly one who ever reads it, or
my wife is, or my kids one day,like that is something important
to me because it's taking moremental energy, it's taking it's
harder for me.
It's easier for me now to wantto go and run 50 to 100 miles
not that those feats are evereasier, ever will be but it's
(46:08):
easier for me to want to go, dothat, which is how I know I
gotta go the other way and dothe other thing.
That's making that.
That's gonna like make me morevulnerable, make me work harder
in a different way, challenge mementally and physically,
because I, you have to sit down,you're not moving right, like
you're not burning calories, youknow.
So those things kind of play adifferent role.
But I try to take the approachwith this stuff of like what's
(46:31):
the thing I'm avoiding?
What's the thing that I reallydon't want to do?
What's the thing, the hardconversation I have to have,
what, like?
I don't want to go outside andrun okay, that's a sign I need
to go out and run.
I don't want to drive to theoffice?
Okay, that means I need to goand I need to drive to the
office.
Like that's how I try tooperate these days, and I don't
know if that's living in the gapas much, but I try.
(46:52):
It's like a combination, notresting on my laurels, but also
like making the harder decisionwhere I can you know.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
I would say that when you look back at you know all
of those times where you, okay,what I heard is, you don't want
to write the book, but you sitdown and write the book.
You might not want to do X, butyou go ahead and do it.
When you look back at that,that's all part of the game,
because then that's again justwhat allowed you, because every
(47:23):
time you make that choice to goafter or do the thing you don't
want to do, you're onlybettering yourself every with
every one of those things youjust mentioned.
When has somebody ever workedout and felt worse about
themselves?
Now, you could feel worsephysically that you just kicked
your ass, but when would youfeel worse about yourself for
(47:46):
doing something that's inalignment with the bigger
picture?
Never.
I don't know how anyone couldjustify.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Outside of injuries.
Yes, You're 100% right.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
But even with a book, you're probably not.
I mean, you might get carpaltunnel, but you know like
endurance spans acrosseverything in life.
I know we often talk about itfrom the physical perspective,
but there's mental endurance.
There's endurance with yourfamily, with our professional
careers, and the more that weput ourselves in the arena, the
(48:18):
more opportunity we create.
There's endurance with yourfamily, with our professional
careers, and the more that weput ourselves in the arena, the
more opportunity we create toprove ourselves right, to create
evidence for our future selfthat when we're going through a
(48:39):
tough moment, no, no, no, no.
You can do that, because here'severything you've done to get
to this place right here.
Walk through the most difficultmoment or moments that you can
recall from being in the arenafor over nine hours, running 58
miles and raising $29,000 forcharity.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
It's so funny you talk about the arena because,
literally when I was runningtoday, you don't run with
headphones, right?
I'm not mistaken.
Sometimes, Sometimes I don't runwith headphones, oof, and you
don't run without a shirt in 20degrees, fair, fair Touche.
I got three to four layers onand I was thinking to myself
(49:21):
just about people that have, youknow, criticize my lifestyle,
saying like it's not sustainable, or you'll see the knees when
you're older, or blah, blah,blah.
Like you know, all that, allthat talk, I literally said to
myself I am in the arena, that'swhat this is.
That is literally what this isright now 10 miles on a Friday
(49:43):
morning, with all the reasons inthe world not to get up at 430
and run in the freezing cold,but like I am in the arena and
this is what it looks like and Ihave to be able to endure.
And so when I think about the58 mile run and those hardest
moments I mean I talked aboutthat instance before 40 miles in
(50:11):
there was there was a coupletimes mile 31, even though I had
done a couple 30 milers before,was pretty grueling because I
hadn't stopped.
So it was straight like 31.
I think I got to like 36 ishwithout stopping.
(50:32):
At 18 I like kissed my wife andbaby because they had like
surprised me along the route,but I, I believe like three.
I hadn't run 31 miles without,like straight stopping on
pavement.
And so, like my body wasfeeling the pavement, I didn't
(50:53):
change my shirt, I hadn'tchanged my shoes, I didn't
change anything until like 37miles in, didn't change my shirt
, I hadn't changed my shoes, Ididn't change anything until
like 37 miles in.
And it was one of those thingsthat I'm like, wow, this is,
this is hard.
At 37, I was in unchartedterritory and you know how it is
.
When your body's in unchartedterritory 45 miles in my mind is
(51:15):
like, oh my god, what were youthinking?
Why on earth would you do this?
Why would you put yourself inthis position?
No one would care if youstopped.
Most people would say I toldyou so your parents will still
love you, like all theseunnecessary things.
(51:36):
And my brother, to his credit,started running with me.
He planned on doing like fiveor six.
He ended up doing like 13 onthe fly and 12 or 13.
And stayed with me the wholetime and at points like just
running around, running around atrack, cause my knees couldn't
continue, like I had to finish,and my knees just couldn't keep
(51:57):
pounding the pavement everysingle time.
It was just way too much.
And so I just remember thinkinglike why 58,?
Man, like 50 would have beenfine, like, but initially the
reason I wanted 58 was becausefive and eight those numbers are
(52:17):
lucky for me and my family, andso I combined them and an 85
was too long.
I didn't really want to do that, at least at this stage.
A 50 mile run was kind of like,hey, if I could do a 50-mile
run, that would be crazy.
And so I wanted to kind oftaste the air up there over 50
to see what it was like.
And 51 didn't feel long enough.
(52:39):
55, you know, double five wouldhave been nice, but eight
really means something to me.
I did 1,018 pull-ups as afundraiser.
I did 1, 18 pull-ups as afundraiser.
I did a thousand 18 pushups asa fundraiser.
So I needed that eight in there.
And those couple moments whereI'm just questioning reality but
(52:59):
getting past 50 miles and arainstorm coming through and me
having to run in the rain, myfamily coming out to see me in
the rain, like everyone thoughtI wasn't going to finish because
of all the rain, and I was likethere's no choice, like I
committed to do this, I'm goingto do this.
(53:20):
I said I would do this, and ifI stop short, then who am I?
No one's going to believeanything that I say, oh, I did
it the next day.
No, none of that.
I would have finished it if Ihad to crawl it, like that was
where I was at.
And so those moments where, likemy knees were just screaming,
(53:41):
my family's telling me I canrest, my daughter doesn't know
what's happening, my mom isasking me to stop but trying to
be supportive, it's all thesedifferent things, all those
moments that the demons and thegremlins they populate in all
those subtle ways.
(54:02):
Man, the only way I knew how tokeep going was by putting one
foot in front of the other andhaving that grace with myself to
say go as slow as you need togo, run the slowest damn mile,
but don't walk.
Do whatever you need to do, butdo not walk.
(54:22):
You don't need music, just eat.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
And I didn't want to eat that is something, oh,
that's so hard, oh my my god, Idon't know if you've had that
experience oh yeah dude, I didnot want to eat the only.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
Thing that was palatable was watermelon, which
is no calories, so that was likeat least hydrating me.
Deli turkey I shoved down mythroat.
I shoved down a pro mix bardown my throat, but like nothing
.
You couldn't offer me myfavorite food for free, and I
wasn't.
I didn't want anything.
(54:55):
It was so hard to get caloriesin and I just had to push myself
through.
Once I shoved, like I don'tknow, maybe like 150 calories
down my throat, I started to geta little bit of light 45 miles
in.
Once I passed 50, that rainstormcame.
We had to hop in the car for ahot sec to let it pass.
(55:16):
Everyone thought we were goinghome.
I was like let's keep going,told the videographer, told my
parents I was like I'll see youover there, kept running and
like I said, man, I was runningunder eight minute miles at some
point, which I could notbelieve after 50 plus miles,
that I had that in me.
And my dad ran with me, mybrother ran with me, my sister
(55:38):
ran with me, my wife, who waspregnant at the time, ran with
me, like it was just thosespecial moments that you know
they didn't believe it waspossible, moments that you know
they didn't believe it waspossible and I needed to show
myself.
It was possible and in theprocess I just learned like I am
exactly who I say I am and Ialways will be exactly who I say
(55:59):
I am you know, I'm sure you gottens more moments that you've
overcome.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
I'd love to hear a hundred I mean, we all, we all
have them, you know.
But I I think about what.
What stands out most for me isjust sticking to your commitment
, no matter what, no matter thecost.
I remember in my recent youknow, 150, it didn't matter if I
was going back and forth on abridge, like if a biker hit me.
(56:26):
I'd be like I'll crawl 60 milesif I have to, because I told
people this is what we're doing,it's bigger than me that we're
giving back to people thatreally need it.
So we're going to execute onour commitments, no matter the
cost.
And it's also interesting youmentioned that 50 plus miles in.
(56:48):
You know, you're, you're notreally wanting to take nutrition
.
I remember my friends had toforce food down me.
I didn't.
That was the last thing Iwanted to do was eat.
And at mile one 50, it was myone 49 to one, 50.
It was my fastest mile, justlike wow.
It's amazing what our bodies andminds are capable of.
(57:08):
We're, what our bodies andminds are capable of.
We're capable of so much morethan we believe ourselves to be
in certain moments.
But I believe, just in generalin life, and I believe that's
also why it's so important to goout there and get in the arena,
test yourself every now andthen prove yourself right.
(57:29):
Just to the way I look at it isthe more we put ourselves
through these tests and itdoesn't always have to be
running, because I always makesure I put that disclaimer in
there but just the more that weput witness and explore our
(57:51):
capability and create theopportunity to help other people
do the exact same thing.
And that's one of the mostbeautiful things that I see with
endurance and doing these crazyevents that we're doing, and
can't wait to see more of thatfrom you in the future.
Jonathan, I would love to giveyou the opportunity here to talk
(58:14):
through you, talk through thebook, but what are some exciting
things that you have going onin 2025 that you want people to
know about so that they can getmore of a taste of what it's
like to be inspired by you andall of the resources that you
(58:35):
have created to make this yearnot just this year, but our
lives enhanced?
Speaker 1 (58:42):
My man, thank you so much.
This was so cool and Iappreciate it.
You can keep up with Inside theInspired.
It's a podcast interviewinghigh performers on the mindset
blueprint over 160 episodes.
At this point, I'm reallyleaning into quality and
bringing the highest quality,most impactful guests that I
want to talk to, and everyconversation is intended to
(59:05):
follow curiosity around what ittakes not just to be the best
version of yourself, but verymuch like this, like how to
channel optimal performancewhether it's a Navy SEAL, an
F-16 pilot, a creator withmillions of followers, an author
who's published millions ofcopies of their books and learn
how to handle the demons, how tohandle the hardship, how to
find purpose, how to buildpurpose, how to handle the
(59:27):
hardship, how to find purpose,how to build purpose.
And on that note, I alsoreleased a course recently, the
Inspired Action System, a courseall about how to build purpose
into your life, how to buildmental toughness, how to
cultivate these differentpillars of what I believe
creates a purpose-driven life,and so you can check that out.
You can follow me on socialmedia at Jonathan Z z cohen.
(59:50):
You could also find me onlinkedin.
You'll probably see mecommenting on ryan's stuff, just
hyping him up because thedude's a beast running hundreds
of miles at and dude can run subthree hour marathon on call.
He can run a hundred mile raceon call, like 200 mile race, if
I'm not mistaken, at this point.
Right, you know, if you had torun that thing tomorrow, you'd
(01:00:11):
do it.
So it's all about being in acommunity of people that are
inspiring one another, lookingto lead that impact that we're
talking about, and I imaginethat if you're listening to this
podcast, you're well on yourway, but it'd be very cool to
connect with you anyway Ifyou're in New York city.
I'm hosting seminars as well onhow to build and train
resilience.
(01:00:31):
These are actually forattorneys in specific, who get
credit towards their baradmission so they can be in
learning how to manage theirmental well-being, because it's
obviously very hard these days,and would love to connect.
Appreciate Ryan for theplatform.
Can't wait to bring you oninside the Inspired after that
200 mile run so you could keepdoing all the good things you're
(01:00:54):
doing.
Man, I'm so proud of you.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Now, it's customary and thank you for the kind words
it's customary to end thepodcast with a rapid fire
session.
So the way this works is I'mgoing to ask you three questions
and the amount of time you haveto answer.
The question is the amount oftime it takes to go up one
elevator floor, so not a wholelot of time.
And we're going up three floorsto go grab lunch somewhere cool
(01:01:21):
in New York City and a newperson is going to enter the
elevator and they're going toask you a question and then
they're going to get off.
So it's one gem, one step, onebook.
So we get on the elevator,someone hops on, they recognize
you, they listen to Inside theInspired.
They say Jonathan, what's onegem that you have, whether it be
(01:01:45):
a quote or a mantra that youlive your life by, that I can
put in my back pocket or live mylife by.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
It's not how you start, it's how you finish.
Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
That person just jumped off Next person's in.
Jonathan, what's one step thatI can take today to live a more
inspiring life?
Be less impressed and moreinvolved.
And the last one what's one bookbesides yours that's coming up
that people should read in 2025to enhance their mindsets?
(01:02:20):
The Body Keeps the ScoreBeautiful.
Jonathan, it was awesome havingyou on board.
Folks keep up with Jonathan.
His podcast is amazing, veryhigh quality guests and
highlighting what we talkedabout today.
When it comes to strengtheningyour mindset in 2025, look at
(01:02:45):
the evidence that you've alreadycreated for yourself and look
at how you can prove yourselfright day in and day out, so you
can live a more inspired lifeand win today.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
Bye.
being kind to yourself in those moments, not
to the point that you can'tperform, but knowing when the
levers are there, knowing wherethe levers are to pull.
Grace and kindness versus likethis is the time to really like
push it, but hating on yourself,like calling yourself an idiot
or, you know, demeaning yourself, like that's not how you
(00:20):
cultivate a relationship withthe demons.
Those are the demons.
And so I've learned how tocultivate a relationship with my
demons through what we know asmental toughness, and mental
toughness as a practice ofgratitude, self-belief,
self-trust, understanding thatthese things that we really care
about at a high level, like meand you, are the answer to
(00:42):
handling those demons, and youhave to cultivate that courage
on a daily basis.
That's why it's a practice.
It's not, it's a practice oflaw, a practice of medicine, a
practice of mental toughness.
Like these are things that youdo over and over and over again,
to the point that it becomesingrained in your identity that
this is just who you are right.
So I have learned how tocultivate that relationship by
(01:06):
doing these things over and overand over again, regardless to
the point where it's, regardlessof how I feel, like if my
elbows feel like they're goingto fall off after I've done a
thousand plus pull-ups.
I'm still going to get up thereuntil I deliver a thousand
eighteen, even when my dad islooking at me in the eye and
said you've done enough for 1018, even when my dad is looking at
(01:29):
me in the eye and said you'vedone enough.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Welcome to the Wednesday podcast, a weekly
resource thoughtfully crafted tohelp people build and refine
discipline, accomplish theirgoals, fortify their mindsets
and be of service to somebody inthis world.
My name is Ryan Cass and I amyour host, and it is my mission
and commitment to deliveramazing episodes to you every
week where you will learn frommyself or renowned expert in
their field.
We love helping people win inevery aspect of their lives, and
(01:57):
you can help us win by sharingthe show with somebody that you
believe will benefit from itsubscribing and leaving a rating
and review with somebody thatyou believe will benefit from it
subscribing and leaving arating and review.
We believe that everybody inthis world is meant to do
something great with their livesand we're here to help play a
(02:17):
role in that.
Thank you for tuning in andlet's win today.
Someone's environment is often akey indicator for their success
who they surround themselveswith, the information that they
choose to consume day in and dayout, their daily habits the
whole gamut.
I'm honored to bring someone onthat is a key in my environment
(02:38):
, someone that absolutelyinspires me and a plethora of
people all over the world, dayin and day out.
I looked up the definition ofinspired before this podcast and
it goes as this fill someonewith the urge or ability to do
or feel something, and JonathanCohen is somebody that fills me
(03:04):
with the urge to push myselfharder and further than I
believe possible and to be thebest servant leader that I can
possibly be.
He is a father, an attorney, avoracious giver and servant,
ultra marathon runner and hostof the Inside the Inspired
(03:27):
podcast.
Jonathan, welcome, brother.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
That might be the best introduction of me I've
ever heard.
Ryan, my man, thank you, andit's funny how you say I push
you when you're the one runningfurther, running faster, running
along the curve with your shirton in crazier environments.
(03:51):
Bro, pleasure to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I believe that speaks to the power of the environment
right there.
I remember coming across you onLinkedIn a few months ago,
coming across you on LinkedIn afew months ago, and I believe
that that's why it's soimportant for people to operate
in alignment with whatever theirpurpose is, day in and day out,
because I believe it createsthis magnetic force that it's
(04:16):
going to draw the right peopleto you and people that are also
committed to leveling up.
So I look forward to going onLinkedIn or social media in the
morning and having content thataligns with my purpose and
seeing you out there at 5 am, 20degrees, going on a 10 mile run
(04:39):
.
It really is powerful and Iknow that I'm echoed by many in
saying that.
You inspire me and I love thatwe get to do this.
I said a lot of cool thingsabout you, but what do you
believe is most important forthe world to know about Jonathan
(04:59):
Cohen?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh, wow.
I think the most importantthing that I would hope the
world knows about me is that I'msomeone who couldn't and now
I'm someone who can.
And the reason I think that'simportant is because you talked
about the definition ofinspiration, and there's a great
(05:22):
sentiment that always hits andresonates with me People won't
remember your name, but theywill remember your impact, and
for me, the impact is, you know,you talked about serving
leadership.
It's really about the type ofnot not legacy in terms of, oh,
(05:45):
you'll remember my name, but theworld will know I was here
because of the impact that Imade in the positive ripples
that I created, even if theydon't remember Jonathan Cohen
specifically.
And so the most important thingthat I would hope people know
about me is that I believe it'spossible if someone who
(06:06):
struggled with learningdisabilities, struggled with
labels, struggled with identity,struggled with just his
self-image and his self-talk,that it's so possible If you,
you don't have to like havethese crazy, like beliefs, you
(06:27):
don't have to take some crazypill, you don't have to like
read one book, you don't have tolike watch one youtube video.
Transformation is a series ofmoments and like.
If you understand that premise,then you have more patience
with yourself and you kind oftake this timeline off of like
in this crazy sense of urgencyfor me to reach this destination
, and you learn of take thistimeline off of like in this
crazy sense of urgency from youto reach this destination, and
(06:47):
you learn to become more processdriven and do things that fall
in alignment.
And so what I would hope peopletake away from anything that I
share is like you can do thingsthat you want to do too and you
can get better at them over time.
I never imagined that when Ipicked up a David Goggins book
or found out or discovered ultrarunning, that I would be
(07:11):
raising tens and tens ofthousands of dollars, like you,
for running crazy distances forwhat feels like no reason.
But that's impact and that iswhat I think.
Over time I've come to learnthrough thousands of reps,
thousands of miles and thousandsof hours invested in trying to
(07:34):
be better.
So that's what I would hope theworld knows about me that if I
can, you definitely can.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, and what I'm hearing is that struggles can
shape our path, with the rightmindset to see beyond the
struggle and perhaps what itcould be giving you in that
moment.
And I love to understand frompeople that are so committed to
(08:02):
doing what you're doing and thatcreating ripple effect for
others and really focusing onimpact it's usually driven by
something very deep, and when Iwas doing my research on you and
you mentioned it as well thatin your early years you
struggled with reading,comprehension and critical
(08:23):
thinking.
So bring us back to what Iunderstand to be the genesis for
being so committed to helpingothers, and those struggles that
ultimately created thisbeautiful path that you're on
right now.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Thanks, man.
It really starts with thismoment in particular that I was
in high school.
I worked with my parents.
We had hired a collegecounselor outside of the public
school system to help mecoordinate a path to get into
college.
(09:01):
To get into college, and longstory long, I ended up finding a
dream school, muhlenbergCollege.
And when I brought it up to hershe laughed in my parents' face
and mine so audibly that Icould still hear it ringing and
said to me in front of myparents your are gonna have to
(09:22):
buy a building in order for youto get in there.
And it was a very humblingmoment for a kid that, like I'm
not gonna say I was the beststudent, I'm not gonna say I did
my homework it's not like I wasdoing my best but I definitely
didn't want that to be somethingmy parents had to do to get me
(09:45):
into college.
And so it became an inflectionpoint where, like I'm gonna
prove this woman wrong, like I'mgonna prove her so wrong she
won't even know what hit her,and I started to take steps and
put energy into doing the workto get into college and so I
(10:07):
ended up going for an interview.
Interview goes great, but myacademic credentials weren't
enough.
But because the interview wentgreat and the stars aligned in a
way that I end up meeting theinterviewer outside of the
interview room because she hadbeen walking into the halls of
the academic office that I wasgetting interviewed in.
I ended up holding the door forher a couple times.
(10:29):
She was carrying books.
She ends up being theinterviewer.
We get along.
And so she's like I'm gonnarecommend you and I'm thinking,
wow, I got into mulemberg, thisis great.
And then, like two, three dayslater, uh, we get a call from
her and she's like yeah, wecan't take your grades and SATs
aren't good enough.
And I'm like, god damn, likewhat?
(10:51):
I was so hyped for a couple ofdays and you know, me and my
family are like what can we do?
And so she advised, you know wecould reach out to the dean of
admissions.
And so dean of admissionsinitially won't meet with me.
My dad gets on the phone withhim.
He goes when was the last timeyou met with someone for five
minutes and you changed theirlife?
Guy ends up meeting with me.
(11:13):
We drive down.
I don't remember what came overme, but I end up saying to the
dean I want to be able to shakeyour hand at the end of four
years and say thank you for theopportunity.
And so what happened was he tookme on a conditional acceptance
that I had to start, that I hadto finish school and I had to
maintain a certain GPA andcertain credentials in order to
(11:36):
be admitted for the followingyear.
So I had to take thisinevitable year off and I end up
enlisting in the Israelimilitary.
I end up holding the academicgrades that I needed, I get the
conditional acceptance, I meetthe requirements and so I enlist
in the Israeli military for ayear infantry combat.
And while I was there, I wantedto extend.
(11:57):
My grandparents were Holocaustsurvivors and I visited the
concentration camps when I wasin high school.
So ends up being three daysafter I graduate high school, I
enlist in the military.
One year turns to two, and thediscipline that I learned in the
military, the time managementthat I learned in the military,
the self-belief and the languageand the energy and skills that
(12:19):
I learned in the military allhelped me cultivate a baseline
for how to operate and holdmyself out into society.
And so, over time, I eventuallyended up going to college.
College became law school Lawschool, business school I did a
four-year JD MBA program.
I end up taking a position as acriminal prosecutor in the
(12:43):
Bronx where I was a specialvictims prosecutor for three
years and I prosecuted hundredsof domestic violence crimes.
I investigated all differenttypes of crazy crime in the
Bronx which is extremely highvolume and very, very dangerous,
and that really kind of gave mea crazy sense of self-belief
(13:03):
and how to investigate how tohandle things, how to manage my
emotions and we can get intothat how to handle pressure.
And the genesis of it reallywas that one moment that I got
to tell that college counselorlike they didn't have to buy a
building, I got it anyway.
She didn't even remember orcare.
It never really carried thatmuch weight for her, but for me
(13:25):
that was really the mainspringboard that made a
difference in how I started tochange my life and take steps
towards my future.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Getting into some mental reframing, which we can
certainly turned into went fromthe maybe the worst compliment I
(13:55):
don't want to say complimentbecause that's where I'm going,
but the most degrading thingsomebody could have said ended
up probably it sounds like to mebecoming the best compliment
she could have given you.
Because what I think about afew instances in my life where
people have told me I can't.
Now, if someone says that, Ijust smile because in my mind,
(14:20):
where it goes, and I'm curiouswhat, what would, what would
take place in your mind rightnow If somebody said, jonathan,
you can't run a hundred miles,there's no way.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, where do you go yeah, that doesn't phase me.
There's too much evidence atthis point that not even I can
question, right Like it.
It just becomes that thing that, um, you've just shown yourself
over and over and over againthat you're ruminating and
wasting your time by investingin the feeling and listen every
(14:53):
day.
You know there's people at workor there's people in life and
there's people in the DMs thathave to, like, say their
whatever they have to say, andusually it's also people that
you love very dearly that alsohave an opinion.
Right, I'm sure you get itquite a lot that there's a lot
of risk in the hundreds of milesthat you're running and
thousands of dollars that you'reraising and the crazy things
(15:17):
that you've accomplished overthe course of your career as a
runner and as a professional,and like, it's just one of those
things where you can't wastetime investing the energy into.
Well, why doesn't that personthink this about me?
Or don't they get it already?
Like I've shown myself thisenough that, no, I can't.
I don't have the bandwidth toplay that game anymore.
I have to focus my energystrategically and in a way that
(15:41):
allows me to grow and beeffective, and I can't be
effective if I'm spending somuch time in imposter syndrome
or calling myself out.
I talk about the demons a lot.
I mean Goggins talks about thedemons too.
I know I've already referencedthem twice, but I promise I've
read hundreds of other books.
It's just one of those thingsthat's relatable because they
(16:03):
can also be gremlins.
Right 40 miles into a 58 milerun, like there's tears running
down my face.
My wife is asking me if I'mokay, my mom's telling me I
could stop anytime.
My daughter's playing on thefloor and I'm like I just I'm
like why did I decide to do this?
Like what was I thinking?
(16:23):
Like no one cares.
Like this doesn't make adifference.
Like even if I thought aboutall the kids that I was helping,
it's like why did I have to beso overly ambitious?
Like, why did I have to endurethis pain?
And then, at mile over mile 50,the last eight miles.
Like some of those miles I wasrunning sub eight minute miles
you know, and like it's just oneof those things that you have
(16:44):
to go through, that transitionof like getting those gremlins,
getting those demons out andknowing that after they've been
like just taken out of your bodythrough sheer force.
That like now waking up at 4 30in the morning to go train and
run 10 miles in like sub 20degrees I think it was like
(17:06):
seven degrees the other day likeit.
It's just one of those thingsthat you, you just know who you
are.
I mean, I'm sure if someonewants to tell you the same thing
and be like what?
Where?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
now, okay, like it's, like you're ready to go at any
point, you know yeah, yeah, andand this is such this is perfect
timing for this discussionbecause we're we're two and a
half well, three weeks into anew year.
This is right about the thisdiscussion because we're two and
a half well, three weeks into anew year.
This is right about the timewhere a lot of folks' highs are
ending the new year high.
I'm going to have the besthabits, I'm going to be the most
(17:41):
disciplined, I'm going to leaveall the negative self-talk in
2024.
And for a lot of people rightnow, they had the high and then
now it's like okay, this isactual work and some people are
going to start going on thedecline.
The gym is starting to becomemore open in the morning, it's
(18:04):
easy to get on the bench press,etc.
Etc.
You've built a really strongrelationship with the we'll call
them the quote demons.
How can somebody build arelationship with the voices
that are encouraging them tostop and allow them to keep
(18:25):
pushing themselves forward?
Because you know your journey,you know obviously there was a
point in time where the demonsstopped you and now they're
still going to visit.
They'll visit anybody, theyeven visit Goggins.
But people like you have arelationship with it to where
now it's just noise and you keepgoing forward.
So how can someone build that?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
It's important to note that they show up in not
just running.
Running, like in so manydifferent areas, right and like,
running is just one area wherethey're so palpable and like,
potent and in your face thatwhen you're forced to face them,
first thing, it allows you tochannel an energy throughout the
(19:09):
day that builds that confidencebecause you kept a promise to
yourself.
You did the thing that you saidthat you were going to do.
So you have proof for yourselfthat you are someone who says
they're going to do the thingthat they say they're going to
do.
And I have built a relationshipwith my demons that I
understand where they populate,demons that I understand where
(19:35):
they populate, and I will have aconversation with myself that
sometimes is like oh, shut up,all right time to go.
And it's even as simple as likethe other day when I was
running I took out the garbageon recycling day.
And like my time in the morningis very like the minutes count,
because I got like 90 minutesof driving every day.
Like, like my time in themorning is very like the minutes
count, cause I got like a 90minutes of driving every day.
Like I got two kids, I got awife.
I got a house, like I, uh, Igot this crazy training regimen,
(19:58):
I got a pot, a job, likethere's all these things that
are going on where I'm spreadvery thin, and so, like I make
my seconds and minutes reallycount.
So during the run I'm thinkingabout how I have to go and
switch the recycling to thegarbage, to the recycling and
I'm like those are preciousseconds and moments and minutes
that I can't spare because Ivalue my time and just it's like
(20:20):
, oh, maybe you do it after, butthen you miss recycling and
like, just so conversationstarts about literally about
garbage Crazy, right, yeah, andyou have to manage that
conversation, knowing when it'stime to tell yourself to shut up
and do the work and knowingwhen it's time to give yourself
grace and love yourself.
(20:41):
So I have learned over time howto be kind to myself through
experience.
So, like, going back to justyou know we're both runners and
it's easy metaphors.
But I can give other examples,like I'll give another example
outside of running stepping onstage and speaking in front of
hundreds of people, or gettingup in front of 20 plus people to
(21:07):
talk about a case where a veryheinous crime occurred and
someone's liberty is on the lineand the stakes are very high
for the victim, for the witness,for the defendant, for the
attorneys, for justice, whateverthat looks like and your name
is on the docket and you'rerepresenting the facts and
(21:27):
circumstance and people of thecounty and you have to be able
to portray things accurately andpeople have opinions.
There's order that needs to bemaintained and there's a lot of
things that can go wrong,whether it's the paperwork, or
someone spends a second longerin jail than they're supposed to
, or you misrepresent somethinginaccurately and someone suffers
as a result, whether it be thedefendant or the victim or a
(21:49):
witness, whoever it is.
There's a lot of things that godown that you're responsible
for, and so being kind toyourself in those moments not to
the point that you can'tperform, but knowing when the
levers are there, knowing wherethe levers are to pull, grace
and kindness versus like this isthe time to really like push it
, but hating on yourself, likecalling yourself an idiot or,
(22:13):
you know, demeaning yourself,like that's not how you
cultivate a relationship withthe demons.
Those are the demons, and soI've learned how to cultivate a
relationship with my demonsthrough what we know is mental
toughness, and mental toughnessis a practice of gratitude,
self-belief, self-trust,understanding that these things
that we really care about at ahigh level, like me and you, are
(22:38):
the answer to handling thosedemons, and you have to
cultivate that courage on adaily basis.
That's why it's a practice.
It's not, it's a practice oflaw, a practice of medicine, a
practice of mental toughnessLike these are things that you
do over and over and over again,to the point that it becomes
ingrained in your identity thatthis is just who you are.
(22:58):
So I have learned how tocultivate that relationship by
doing these things over and overand over again, regardless to
the point where it's, regardlessof how I feel.
And over again, regardless tothe point where it's, regardless
of how I feel, like if myelbows feel like they're going
to fall off after I've done athousand plus pull-ups, I'm
still going to get up thereuntil I deliver a thousand
eighteen, even when my dad islooking at me in the eye and
(23:20):
said you've done enough, evenwhen I'm about to faint because
I didn't know how to fuelproperly for strength, endurance
, like that, and my brotherlooks across from me and he's
like foxhole motherfucker, likewe're in this thing together,
like it's those moments thatwhen the demons arise
physiologically or mentally oremotionally, or in the form of
(23:43):
someone you love or that yourespect their opinion and admire
, you have to cultivate theconversation internally in a way
that allows you to buildyourself up.
And building yourself up doesn'tmean I'm the greatest, it
doesn't mean I'm feelingoutstanding.
It means one step at a time, itmeans one stride at a time, it
means one breath at a time, itmeans just go one more.
(24:06):
It means do one more thingbefore you quit, go for one more
day.
That one more line in that book, and those simple things have
made a massive difference in howI approach those demons on a
daily basis.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It sounds like proving yourself right by taking
action on the things that yousaid you're going to do is what
will then cultivate thatconfidence and strengthen that
belief system.
That, all right.
I said I was going to go outand do this difficult task in
the morning, whether it is a runor something at work, and by
(24:42):
doing that, even when maybe Idon't want to, then, okay, now
I'm giving myself some juice,like, okay, that felt really
good, let's keep this enginerolling.
Wouldn't it be awesome ifmotivation was this thing that
when we're getting dressed inthe morning, we're putting on
our shoes, we're taking oursupplements, and then, okay, let
(25:06):
me go grab this motivation realquick and take my motivation
supplement.
But motivation follows action.
So, by building a system aroundcommitting to small actions for
yourself so if this iscompletely new to somebody in
2025, even as small as okay, I'mgoing to wake up early and
(25:30):
stretch for 10 minutes Great andgo do that thing, and then that
can evolve into more difficultthings.
And now you're strengtheningthat belief system.
You're learning how to pushpast these demons on your
shoulders that want you to stayin bed or justify not going
after your goals, and anotherthing people can do is just
(25:53):
follow you and subscribe, andit'll be pretty hard to not take
action on your things.
You know, but you brought upimposter syndrome, and that's
another thing that I really want.
Now I'm starting to focus thisconversation on a few things
that we both understand peoplestruggle with and, especially in
(26:14):
the new year, a lot of peopleare asking the how?
Questions how do I set goals,how do I become more motivated,
how do I push the demons aside?
You were on the HigherAlignment podcast fairly
recently and you brought up thisbeautiful analogy from Alex
Hormozy on how you overcame I'mway too mainstream Overcame
(26:39):
imposter syndrome, bro.
But just basically, what didthat look like for you?
Because I feel that that'ssomething that we all have bouts
with.
Even the best of the best havebouts with it as well, you know,
but we often glorify them andassume that they don't have
(27:01):
internal battles as well, butthey do and we get to talk to
them, and many of them thatwe've had on our shows often
share that and that they'rehuman.
So what did that look like foryou?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I got to stop quoting Hormozy and Goggins.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Everyone's going to think I only read two different
books, but I digress the factthat they're that, I believe it
just speaks to the level ofimpact that they have.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah, I think that too.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It's not that, that's all you you know, it's not that
you're a, a goggin ted.
You know, and everything is allyou know.
Whatever goggins would do, thenI'm gonna do.
I don't believe that, but youknow, those are two people,
going back to the beginning ofwhat you said, like, what would
you want to be known for?
Impact and you.
Those just happen to be twopeople that have created an
(27:52):
enormous impact in this world.
So A hundred percent, yeah.
So let's, let's talk throughthat.
How was, what was thatinfluence and and the
relationship with impostersyndrome?
For you, discipline is a keycomponent of this podcast and a
key thing that we preach.
(28:14):
We view discipline as the fuelto help you create the life that
you ultimately desire, anddiscipline being the fuel that
gets your habits and systems incheck so that you can actually
accomplish your goals.
Your habits and systems incheck so that you can actually
accomplish your goals.
If you're looking to level upin 2025, I am happy to be a part
(28:39):
of that and encourage you tojoin the Unshakable Discipline
Mastermind Group.
This has been my baby for acouple years and we're finally
launching it here in 2025.
The group consists of aself-paced course that teaches
you how to form core habits andmindset that will allow you to
accomplish your goals.
A daily accountability channelto keep you on track, motivated
(29:00):
and in alignment with ourmembers.
And weekly mastermind sessionswhere you're going to learn from
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I've learned that being a partof groups over the years has
(29:22):
helped propel me to so many newlevels in life.
If you want to go fast, go alone.
If you want to go far, then gotogether, and it's my wish that
the Unshakable Crew is a choicethat makes sense for you in 2025
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We are growing up to 100members this year and have
(29:46):
limited time founding memberpricing for 12 more folks before
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You can get in now for $67 amonth, locked in for life, and
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If you're somebody that cravesdiscipline, seeks it or wants it
(30:10):
this year, and you're reallycommitted to making lasting
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Go to unshakabledisciplinecomand you can sign up.
(30:32):
It is also in the show notesUnshakeable shake, as in
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we're excited to have you in2025.
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Imposter syndrome haunted me for years, especially
as somebody who felt soaccomplished that like no matter
what I had done and I'd donesome pretty cool things, like
objectively, that now I canshare humbly uh but it wasn't
enough for me to believe inmyself because certain results
(31:08):
and certain brands and names andperspectives that I had had
about what quote, success lookslike you have to go work for
that company, you have to gowork for that school, or you
have to go work for thatopportunity, or you have to go
after that opportunity thatthose benchmarks became what I
considered successful.
And even when I started to goup against certain attorneys who
(31:34):
had gone to Yale or Harvard orif I was a summer associate when
I was a summer associate in aprogram and I'm a first year and
all of these Ivy Leaguers aresurrounding me or other people
from schools that got into theprogram, but those schools
didn't take me.
I'm going up against them in amock trial and I'm getting
(31:57):
called out for giving the bestclosing amongst all of those
attorneys or, I guess, lawstudents at the time, like I
didn't know how to process in myhead that I had an ability or
that I was skilled enough,because my definition of success
(32:20):
was associated with thecredentials that somebody else
had, and so I measured and Iovercompensated in ways that
allowed me to reflect my skillset in a way that was effective,
like that closing in a mocktrial versus the internal
(32:41):
dialogue that I was having withmyself around.
You know, stop pretending likeyou can keep up, or stop
pretending that you can keep up,you're as good as you think you
are.
Like there's a reason they gotinto those schools.
Like just wasting my time withunnecessary like meaningful.
(33:03):
And I'm, candidly, like at thepoint where I can't even
necessarily recall all of thoseinternal conversations, because
I've just cemented so muchpositivity into my life and I've
injected it through experienceinto my life.
And I've injected it throughexperience into my life, but a
(33:43):
lot of it was about how Iperceived other people, instead
of me focusing on myself,instead of me focusing on
delivering the best clothingthat I could deliver than I did
on my trail of evidence thathelped me assess and establish.
This is who I am.
I am someone who got hispilot's license.
I am someone who went to themilitary.
I am someone who got intocollege when all the odds were
against him.
I am someone who started apodcast that tens of thousands
of people have listened to.
I'm someone and like it took us.
Are these metrics real?
Like is that?
(34:03):
Is that content that got 11views?
I guess it's not that goodbecause it's only got 11 views.
But that person messaged me andthey said it really impacted
them and they wanted to.
They wanted to get togetherbecause of it or they rated the
podcast because of it.
Like, I learned to just focusmy attention on where the impact
I was making was felt and italso became this area of like.
(34:27):
Am I diluting myself intothings also just by leaning
towards all the positivereinforcement?
But you kind of have to be theand what I've learned is you
kind of have to.
It's not picking and choosing.
And I interviewed StevenPressfield, global bestselling
author.
Millions of copies of his bookssold all over.
Joe Rogan gives it out as likea book to some of his guests and
(34:48):
you know he talks aboutrationalization and the war of
art.
I don't know if you've read itand it's this idea that we
rationalized our behavior andrationalization is also a form
of procrastination.
It's this idea that werationalized our behavior and
rationalization is also a formof procrastination.
It's a form of self-sabotage.
I'm going to post about this.
I'm glad you're asking thisquestion.
Rationalization, for me, wassomething that resonated a ton,
(35:12):
because I was justifying everysingle one of my actions Once I
got to a certain level of likeokay, I believe in myself, but
I'm going to train, even thoughI shouldn't or I'm going to do
something that I want to do, butit's going to be because of
this and I wasn't reallymeasuring my progress in a way
(35:35):
that was tangible, I was justgoing by, feel, and so once I
put the objective lens andeliminated the abstract, like
the abstractness around myoutput and my accomplishments, I
was able to lean into a visionand a version of myself that
says, like, okay, I am qualifiedin this area.
(35:58):
I do have a level of expertise.
Based on the hundreds of books,based on the hundreds of
interviews, based on thehundreds of miles, based on the
hundreds of reps, based on theconversations that I've had, the
stages that I've been on, thespeaking at Stanford, like
wherever it is that I was, I wasable to look at the objective
(36:19):
metrics and say, okay, I amtelling myself the wrong story
and I'm wasting my time, theprecious minutes and moments
trying to.
You know, someone gives me acompliment.
I don't know how to take acompliment.
Well, it's not good if youdon't know how to take a
compliment.
Actually, you should learn howto say thank you.
You don't have to put yourselfdown just because someone gives
(36:40):
you a compliment.
It's actually a very graciousthing to the person that's
giving you a compliment to learnhow to take a compliment.
You don't have to put yourselfdown every single time someone
tries to put you up, right?
People self-sabotage in thosesubtle ways that imposter
syndrome, uh, just undercutstheir ability to to create more,
(37:02):
to offer more, to give more,and and it prevents progress.
You know, and most people aretheir own worst enemy.
They think that they'refighting, and they're fighting
the wrong people and they thinkthat they're fighting external
sources, but really it'sthemselves and it's the person
that they see in the mirror.
And so I learned how to get outof my own way a long time ago,
(37:25):
and so I've only learned how tolook forward, since I only look
back to see how far I've come,but at the same time, to reflect
on lessons that I've learned.
And so the relationship reallybecame about how do I look at
myself, in a way, and holdmyself accountable in a way that
I'm still a good person.
(37:45):
I'm still someone who's trying.
I'm also someone who'saccomplished.
I still am not where I want tobe, but I want to make progress
and not let all the white noiseof what someone else has done or
what someone else thinks or allthese other things get in my
way, because it's not allowingme to be the best version of
yourself.
Being the best version ofyourself means you need enough
(38:07):
mental bandwidth to do thethings.
You don't have the bandwidth todo the thing if you're
concerned about what that personthinks.
Right In Viktor Frankl Man'sSearch for Meaning he talks
about when someone leaves yourlife, it makes room for
everything else you have toaccomplish, and so, again, we
have a finite amount of energyto give, so stop wasting it on
(38:29):
things that are preventing youfrom putting that energy into
what could move the needle foryou, you know.
So that's kind of how I'veassessed my relationship with
imposter syndrome and how I wasable to transform it into more
productive energy.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
And encouragement for folks there is that to get over
imposter syndrome is look atthe evidence.
That's something that oftengoes overlooked.
That's something that oftengoes overlooked, but you
reminded yourself of the journeyand all the steps that you have
taken to get to where you werein that moment, or even where
(39:06):
you are right now.
If you're ever battling thosethoughts again now or in the
future, what got me here?
So a question that we can poseto people is what has allowed
you or enabled you to get towhere you are right now?
And I'd be willing to bet thatanybody can list five to 10 to
(39:30):
15 things that has gotten you towhere you are.
And it's often easy to overlookthat because we can look at
somebody else's journey.
I can look at you and say, oh,jonathan, he's had all these big
time people on inside theInspired podcast.
Maybe I'm just not asking theright questions.
(39:51):
Or you know, he must just havethe 10 times better outreach
system than me.
You know who am I to think thatI can get Steven Pressfield on
my podcast.
Or we can look at all the stepsthat have been taken from day
one of this pod in 2021 to whereit is now, and in that journey,
(40:12):
are you familiar with the gapin the gain from dr ben hardy?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I just read someone's post about it, so I know very
tangentially it's.
It's one of the second timeit's coming up.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
It sounds like I need it's one of my favorite books,
but then favorite concepts.
So, basically, the gap in thegain.
People often find themselvesespecially ambitious.
People find themselves livingin the, which means that we
arrive at point X, regardless ofhow monumental of an effort it
(40:46):
was.
So we can take your example ofmost recently running a 58-mile
ultramarathon, which we'll getinto next, raising $29,000.
Amazing, phenomenalaccomplishment.
Living in the gap would meanthat, after all that work you
just did and you've even alludedto what some of that day looked
(41:09):
like that you're then lookingat oh well, I haven't ran 100
miles yet.
And well, look at all theseother people who have ran 100
miles and they raised $40,000,$50,000.
That's living in the gap,because the goalpost is always
moving versus living in the gain.
Okay, what did it take to beable to run 58 miles and raise
(41:34):
$29,000?
Oh, it took thousands of earlymorning wake-ups on the days
that you didn't want to.
It took thousands of miles.
It took dedicated outreach.
It took cultivating a strongnetwork of people that can give
$29,000.
So I often remind myself aswell, zoom out and what has
(41:58):
gotten you to where you areright now?
Because you can find so muchsupporting evidence that you are
capable, you have the tools,you're on the right path and, of
course, there's going to bebumps, and those bumps are to be
embraced.
But I love, I, absolutely,absolutely, I absolutely love
(42:18):
that I I mean the gap in thegain aspect.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I don't know if you experience it with everything
that you've done to multiplehundred mile races, speed demon,
also raising incredible amountsof money, like there just isn't
enough room with all thosemiles and time and energy to
(42:47):
live in that gap there justisn't not.
Not for me, not for you.
Yeah, and it's funny that youtalk about.
It's a great example of the ofthe 58 compared to 100, because
I had this goal when I initiallyset out to do the 58-mile run,
(43:09):
that I wanted to be in this rareclub that I invented Someone
who did 1,000-plus push-ups,pushups, a thousand plus
pull-ups and ran over 50 miles.
I felt like no one did that.
I think the only person or onlycouple of people that I know
that have done it are like DavidGoggins, truett Haynes and me.
(43:30):
Maybe there's like a couple ofpeople who have done a thousand
plus pull-ups and pushups in amarathon, but as far as I know,
uh, those are the only threethat I know.
My research is pretty dense.
I've gone through like all ofthe different fundraisers, I've
gone through like all thesedifferent things and that's what
I've come up with.
If anything, it's like a onepercent of a one percent.
And so I created this kind ofidea to help me separate myself
(43:57):
as somebody.
For me to know I'm in my ownunique unit.
Not that I'm like this crazyfit person, not that I'm this
special dude, just someone whocreated his own little club that
he's allowed in and a veryother select few that put
themselves through all of thepain and rigor and training that
comes along with it.
(44:19):
And once I had finished that 58mile run which, candidly, a year
earlier I probably didn't evenin January, I didn't really
think it was that possible I wasfeeling like I under trained.
I was feeling like I wouldn'tknow how to fuel because I kept
getting sick.
(44:39):
Like there were just so manythings that were unknown that in
the last year or so leading upto it I needed to refine.
And so after that 58 mile run,I had reached this goal that no
one knew or really cared aboutthe 1000, 1050 club and it gave
(45:02):
me this crazy sense of, okay,I've done it.
But you and I know right, thegoalpost moon, it's like well,
what if I could do it all in oneday?
You know like, wouldn't that becool if I just meant like you
know I probably did a couplehours of pull-ups.
You know, do the hour of thepush-ups.
I probably do them back to back.
I could super set them.
And then what if I go for likea 10 hour run after that, I'll
just eat a ton that day.
(45:22):
But like that, that's living inthe gap to your point, right,
and that that's justunnecessarily moving the
goalposts where it's like why amI doing that?
Like that wouldn't make me abetter person, that would just
do more like it.
What are you trying toaccomplish here?
Right, and you know we talked alittle bit about about it
before.
Like I'm trying to write a book,or I am writing a book.
For me that's more of achallenge mentally to put myself
(45:46):
in a space where I can write abook that, if one person reads,
or no one reads, or if I'm theonly one who ever reads it, or
my wife is, or my kids one day,like that is something important
to me because it's taking moremental energy, it's taking it's
harder for me.
It's easier for me now to wantto go and run 50 to 100 miles
not that those feats are evereasier, ever will be but it's
(46:08):
easier for me to want to go, dothat, which is how I know I
gotta go the other way and dothe other thing.
That's making that.
That's gonna like make me morevulnerable, make me work harder
in a different way, challenge mementally and physically,
because I, you have to sit down,you're not moving right, like
you're not burning calories, youknow.
So those things kind of play adifferent role.
But I try to take the approachwith this stuff of like what's
(46:31):
the thing I'm avoiding?
What's the thing that I reallydon't want to do?
What's the thing, the hardconversation I have to have,
what, like?
I don't want to go outside andrun okay, that's a sign I need
to go out and run.
I don't want to drive to theoffice?
Okay, that means I need to goand I need to drive to the
office.
Like that's how I try tooperate these days, and I don't
know if that's living in the gapas much, but I try.
(46:52):
It's like a combination, notresting on my laurels, but also
like making the harder decisionwhere I can you know.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
I would say that when you look back at you know all
of those times where you, okay,what I heard is, you don't want
to write the book, but you sitdown and write the book.
You might not want to do X, butyou go ahead and do it.
When you look back at that,that's all part of the game,
because then that's again justwhat allowed you, because every
(47:23):
time you make that choice to goafter or do the thing you don't
want to do, you're onlybettering yourself every with
every one of those things youjust mentioned.
When has somebody ever workedout and felt worse about
themselves?
Now, you could feel worsephysically that you just kicked
your ass, but when would youfeel worse about yourself for
(47:46):
doing something that's inalignment with the bigger
picture?
Never.
I don't know how anyone couldjustify.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Outside of injuries.
Yes, You're 100% right.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
But even with a book, you're probably not.
I mean, you might get carpaltunnel, but you know like
endurance spans acrosseverything in life.
I know we often talk about itfrom the physical perspective,
but there's mental endurance.
There's endurance with yourfamily, with our professional
careers, and the more that weput ourselves in the arena, the
(48:18):
more opportunity we create.
There's endurance with yourfamily, with our professional
careers, and the more that weput ourselves in the arena, the
more opportunity we create toprove ourselves right, to create
evidence for our future selfthat when we're going through a
(48:39):
tough moment, no, no, no, no.
You can do that, because here'severything you've done to get
to this place right here.
Walk through the most difficultmoment or moments that you can
recall from being in the arenafor over nine hours, running 58
miles and raising $29,000 forcharity.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
It's so funny you talk about the arena because,
literally when I was runningtoday, you don't run with
headphones, right?
I'm not mistaken.
Sometimes, Sometimes I don't runwith headphones, oof, and you
don't run without a shirt in 20degrees, fair, fair Touche.
I got three to four layers onand I was thinking to myself
(49:21):
just about people that have, youknow, criticize my lifestyle,
saying like it's not sustainable, or you'll see the knees when
you're older, or blah, blah,blah.
Like you know, all that, allthat talk, I literally said to
myself I am in the arena, that'swhat this is.
That is literally what this isright now 10 miles on a Friday
(49:43):
morning, with all the reasons inthe world not to get up at 430
and run in the freezing cold,but like I am in the arena and
this is what it looks like and Ihave to be able to endure.
And so when I think about the58 mile run and those hardest
moments I mean I talked aboutthat instance before 40 miles in
(50:11):
there was there was a coupletimes mile 31, even though I had
done a couple 30 milers before,was pretty grueling because I
hadn't stopped.
So it was straight like 31.
I think I got to like 36 ishwithout stopping.
(50:32):
At 18 I like kissed my wife andbaby because they had like
surprised me along the route,but I, I believe like three.
I hadn't run 31 miles without,like straight stopping on
pavement.
And so, like my body wasfeeling the pavement, I didn't
(50:53):
change my shirt, I hadn'tchanged my shoes, I didn't
change anything until like 37miles in, didn't change my shirt
, I hadn't changed my shoes, Ididn't change anything until
like 37 miles in.
And it was one of those thingsthat I'm like, wow, this is,
this is hard.
At 37, I was in unchartedterritory and you know how it is
.
When your body's in unchartedterritory 45 miles in my mind is
(51:15):
like, oh my god, what were youthinking?
Why on earth would you do this?
Why would you put yourself inthis position?
No one would care if youstopped.
Most people would say I toldyou so your parents will still
love you, like all theseunnecessary things.
(51:36):
And my brother, to his credit,started running with me.
He planned on doing like fiveor six.
He ended up doing like 13 onthe fly and 12 or 13.
And stayed with me the wholetime and at points like just
running around, running around atrack, cause my knees couldn't
continue, like I had to finish,and my knees just couldn't keep
(51:57):
pounding the pavement everysingle time.
It was just way too much.
And so I just remember thinkinglike why 58,?
Man, like 50 would have beenfine, like, but initially the
reason I wanted 58 was becausefive and eight those numbers are
(52:17):
lucky for me and my family, andso I combined them and an 85
was too long.
I didn't really want to do that, at least at this stage.
A 50 mile run was kind of like,hey, if I could do a 50-mile
run, that would be crazy.
And so I wanted to kind oftaste the air up there over 50
to see what it was like.
And 51 didn't feel long enough.
(52:39):
55, you know, double five wouldhave been nice, but eight
really means something to me.
I did 1,018 pull-ups as afundraiser.
I did 1, 18 pull-ups as afundraiser.
I did a thousand 18 pushups asa fundraiser.
So I needed that eight in there.
And those couple moments whereI'm just questioning reality but
(52:59):
getting past 50 miles and arainstorm coming through and me
having to run in the rain, myfamily coming out to see me in
the rain, like everyone thoughtI wasn't going to finish because
of all the rain, and I was likethere's no choice, like I
committed to do this, I'm goingto do this.
(53:20):
I said I would do this, and ifI stop short, then who am I?
No one's going to believeanything that I say, oh, I did
it the next day.
No, none of that.
I would have finished it if Ihad to crawl it, like that was
where I was at.
And so those moments where, likemy knees were just screaming,
(53:41):
my family's telling me I canrest, my daughter doesn't know
what's happening, my mom isasking me to stop but trying to
be supportive, it's all thesedifferent things, all those
moments that the demons and thegremlins they populate in all
those subtle ways.
(54:02):
Man, the only way I knew how tokeep going was by putting one
foot in front of the other andhaving that grace with myself to
say go as slow as you need togo, run the slowest damn mile,
but don't walk.
Do whatever you need to do, butdo not walk.
(54:22):
You don't need music, just eat.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
And I didn't want to eat that is something, oh,
that's so hard, oh my my god, Idon't know if you've had that
experience oh yeah dude, I didnot want to eat the only.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
Thing that was palatable was watermelon, which
is no calories, so that was likeat least hydrating me.
Deli turkey I shoved down mythroat.
I shoved down a pro mix bardown my throat, but like nothing
.
You couldn't offer me myfavorite food for free, and I
wasn't.
I didn't want anything.
(54:55):
It was so hard to get caloriesin and I just had to push myself
through.
Once I shoved, like I don'tknow, maybe like 150 calories
down my throat, I started to geta little bit of light 45 miles
in.
Once I passed 50, that rainstormcame.
We had to hop in the car for ahot sec to let it pass.
(55:16):
Everyone thought we were goinghome.
I was like let's keep going,told the videographer, told my
parents I was like I'll see youover there, kept running and
like I said, man, I was runningunder eight minute miles at some
point, which I could notbelieve after 50 plus miles,
that I had that in me.
And my dad ran with me, mybrother ran with me, my sister
(55:38):
ran with me, my wife, who waspregnant at the time, ran with
me, like it was just thosespecial moments that you know
they didn't believe it waspossible, moments that you know
they didn't believe it waspossible and I needed to show
myself.
It was possible and in theprocess I just learned like I am
exactly who I say I am and Ialways will be exactly who I say
(55:59):
I am you know, I'm sure you gottens more moments that you've
overcome.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
I'd love to hear a hundred I mean, we all, we all
have them, you know.
But I I think about what.
What stands out most for me isjust sticking to your commitment
, no matter what, no matter thecost.
I remember in my recent youknow, 150, it didn't matter if I
was going back and forth on abridge, like if a biker hit me.
(56:26):
I'd be like I'll crawl 60 milesif I have to, because I told
people this is what we're doing,it's bigger than me that we're
giving back to people thatreally need it.
So we're going to execute onour commitments, no matter the
cost.
And it's also interesting youmentioned that 50 plus miles in.
(56:48):
You know, you're, you're notreally wanting to take nutrition
.
I remember my friends had toforce food down me.
I didn't.
That was the last thing Iwanted to do was eat.
And at mile one 50, it was myone 49 to one, 50.
It was my fastest mile, justlike wow.
It's amazing what our bodies andminds are capable of.
(57:08):
We're, what our bodies andminds are capable of.
We're capable of so much morethan we believe ourselves to be
in certain moments.
But I believe, just in generalin life, and I believe that's
also why it's so important to goout there and get in the arena,
test yourself every now andthen prove yourself right.
(57:29):
Just to the way I look at it isthe more we put ourselves
through these tests and itdoesn't always have to be
running, because I always makesure I put that disclaimer in
there but just the more that weput witness and explore our
(57:51):
capability and create theopportunity to help other people
do the exact same thing.
And that's one of the mostbeautiful things that I see with
endurance and doing these crazyevents that we're doing, and
can't wait to see more of thatfrom you in the future.
Jonathan, I would love to giveyou the opportunity here to talk
(58:14):
through you, talk through thebook, but what are some exciting
things that you have going onin 2025 that you want people to
know about so that they can getmore of a taste of what it's
like to be inspired by you andall of the resources that you
(58:35):
have created to make this yearnot just this year, but our
lives enhanced?
Speaker 1 (58:42):
My man, thank you so much.
This was so cool and Iappreciate it.
You can keep up with Inside theInspired.
It's a podcast interviewinghigh performers on the mindset
blueprint over 160 episodes.
At this point, I'm reallyleaning into quality and
bringing the highest quality,most impactful guests that I
want to talk to, and everyconversation is intended to
(59:05):
follow curiosity around what ittakes not just to be the best
version of yourself, but verymuch like this, like how to
channel optimal performancewhether it's a Navy SEAL, an
F-16 pilot, a creator withmillions of followers, an author
who's published millions ofcopies of their books and learn
how to handle the demons, how tohandle the hardship, how to
find purpose, how to buildpurpose, how to handle the
(59:27):
hardship, how to find purpose,how to build purpose.
And on that note, I alsoreleased a course recently, the
Inspired Action System, a courseall about how to build purpose
into your life, how to buildmental toughness, how to
cultivate these differentpillars of what I believe
creates a purpose-driven life,and so you can check that out.
You can follow me on socialmedia at Jonathan Z z cohen.
(59:50):
You could also find me onlinkedin.
You'll probably see mecommenting on ryan's stuff, just
hyping him up because thedude's a beast running hundreds
of miles at and dude can run subthree hour marathon on call.
He can run a hundred mile raceon call, like 200 mile race, if
I'm not mistaken, at this point.
Right, you know, if you had torun that thing tomorrow, you'd
(01:00:11):
do it.
So it's all about being in acommunity of people that are
inspiring one another, lookingto lead that impact that we're
talking about, and I imaginethat if you're listening to this
podcast, you're well on yourway, but it'd be very cool to
connect with you anyway Ifyou're in New York city.
I'm hosting seminars as well onhow to build and train
resilience.
(01:00:31):
These are actually forattorneys in specific, who get
credit towards their baradmission so they can be in
learning how to manage theirmental well-being, because it's
obviously very hard these days,and would love to connect.
Appreciate Ryan for theplatform.
Can't wait to bring you oninside the Inspired after that
200 mile run so you could keepdoing all the good things you're
(01:00:54):
doing.
Man, I'm so proud of you.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Now, it's customary and thank you for the kind words
it's customary to end thepodcast with a rapid fire
session.
So the way this works is I'mgoing to ask you three questions
and the amount of time you haveto answer.
The question is the amount oftime it takes to go up one
elevator floor, so not a wholelot of time.
And we're going up three floorsto go grab lunch somewhere cool
(01:01:21):
in New York City and a newperson is going to enter the
elevator and they're going toask you a question and then
they're going to get off.
So it's one gem, one step, onebook.
So we get on the elevator,someone hops on, they recognize
you, they listen to Inside theInspired.
They say Jonathan, what's onegem that you have, whether it be
(01:01:45):
a quote or a mantra that youlive your life by, that I can
put in my back pocket or live mylife by.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
It's not how you start, it's how you finish.
Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
That person just jumped off Next person's in.
Jonathan, what's one step thatI can take today to live a more
inspiring life?
Be less impressed and moreinvolved.
And the last one what's one bookbesides yours that's coming up
that people should read in 2025to enhance their mindsets?
(01:02:20):
The Body Keeps the ScoreBeautiful.
Jonathan, it was awesome havingyou on board.
Folks keep up with Jonathan.
His podcast is amazing, veryhigh quality guests and
highlighting what we talkedabout today.
When it comes to strengtheningyour mindset in 2025, look at
(01:02:45):
the evidence that you've alreadycreated for yourself and look
at how you can prove yourselfright day in and day out, so you
can live a more inspired lifeand win today.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
Bye.
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