April 7, 2025 • 69 mins
In this episode, elite mental performance coach Evan Marks shares insights on overcoming self-imposed limitations, drawing from his work with NASCAR drivers, Wall Street traders, and top athletes. He reveals a simple formula for success: Performance = Potential - Interferences, showing how reducing mental barriers, many of which are unconscious, unlocks new potential. Through powerful stories and practical tools, Marks demonstrates how curiosity, reframing fear, and shifting our language can help us break through personal and professional limits.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So when we think about curiosity right, curiosity
in its essence is informationseeking.
That's what it means.
So how does it affect mentalperformance?
And how does it excuse me, playinto mental performance?
Let's just think about it.
If I said to you, I'm curious tosee if we start this company,
(00:21):
if we start this practice, whatcould it look like?
But I don't know, let's go see,as opposed to let's go start
this company.
If we start this practice, whatcould it look like?
But I don't know, let's go see,as opposed to let's go start
this.
Well, you know, we could fail.
We may not win.
This may take longer than wethink, but if you're curious,
it's almost goes around thatresistance of, well, my father
(00:44):
failed.
I've learned this that youdon't take risks, because if you
take risks, bad things happen.
But if you get curious and sayyou know what, let me see, the
intensity of the fear of dot dotdot is lessened.
I'm interested.
Of the fear of dot dot dot islessened.
(01:04):
I'm interested.
That alone opens up so manydifferent paths for you to take,
because you know what we may bewrong.
Well, yeah, I'm just curious.
I'm curious to see what happens.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
And so now as you forge ahead.
That almost bringspossibilities.
Welcome to the WednesdayPodcast, a weekly resource
thoughtfully crafted to helppeople build and refine
discipline, accomplish theirgoals, fortify their mindsets
and be of service to somebody inthis world.
My name is Ryan Cass and I amyour host, and it is my mission
and commitment to deliveramazing episodes to you every
(01:50):
week where you'll learn frommyself or renowned expert in
their field.
We love helping people win inevery aspect of their lives, and
you can help us win by sharingthe show with somebody that you
believe will benefit from it,subscribing and leaving a rating
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We believe that everybody inthis world is meant to do
(02:11):
something great with their livesand we're here to help play a
role in that.
Thank you for tuning in andlet's win today.
What would life look likewithout self-induced limitations
?
What would life look likewithout self-induced limitations
?
What would life look like, freeof procrastination from the
future that we ultimatelyenvision for ourselves?
(02:35):
If we sit with that and exploreit for a minute, we'd likely
see endless possibilities andthings that we wish were in
reach right now.
Endless possibilities andthings that we wish were in
reach right now.
We have all the tools that areneeded to create the life that
we ultimately envision, and it'sthrough people like Evan Marks
(02:55):
who helped make that apossibility.
He has gone from Wall Street tothe pit stop, as he is a mental
performance coach for athletes,NASCAR drivers, Wall Street
traders, the elite of the elitein the business world, and he
has been an amazingtransformation story himself,
(03:20):
Evan.
Welcome, brother Ryan.
What a pleasure to be here,brother.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I've been looking forward to this all week, and
obviously to everybody else,happy Valentine's.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Day Since we first spoke, I was juiced up.
I felt like we could have gonefor hours and I'm excited for
people to experience thatNortheast energy that you bring,
and we said some cool thingsabout you.
You've worked with some amazingpeople.
You have access to a lot ofincredible people notables that
(03:52):
we talk about day in, day out,that we often reference as
examples for the type of peoplethat we want to be.
But before we really explorethat, what's the most important
thing for the world to knowabout you?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I think for anybody who wants to achieve anything in
life, nothing is linear.
You know, when you look atsomebody who's accomplished
something, or the things thatyou model or that you emulate,
never think it's linear, likethere is struggle in life, there
is pain in life, but it really,you know, like you just said in
(04:30):
that intro, we are limitless ifwe choose to believe that you
know and and and you know.
The people I coach and thepeople I associate with like to
be in that, that lane wherelet's see what, where it takes
us.
And that's all right if youwant to go in the slow lane and
this is what you want out oflife, but if you want more and
(04:52):
you believe in possibilities andyou're so curious about what
else is out there, then go forit because it is limitless.
Expectations are nothing.
You know.
People have broken expectationstime and time again.
I can't believe.
Oh yeah, they did it again.
So why put limits on yourself?
It really is.
It's having the power tobelieve Like you know what, what
(05:18):
am I really capable of doing?
Talent will take you so far,but you put that effort in that
belief system and that daily,where day stack, week stack,
month stack you have no ideawhat is possible, and that's
exciting to me.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
You're absolutely right that there is no linear
path, and when I'm giving mykeynotes especially if I'm
speaking at a college and I'vegot a whiteboard available to me
, I'll go up and draw a simplechart with a straight line and
(05:57):
then I'll draw another line.
They both arrive at the samedestination, but this second
line has the peaks, the valleys.
The peaks, the big highs, thelow lows, and then I'll point
and say which one is morerepresentative of life.
(06:18):
Of course we would envisionthat it's the linear line and
sometimes we create thatnarrative for everybody else.
That man, evan, just had itfigured out.
He went from Wall Street to tocoaching Jimmy Johnson and some
(06:40):
of the top NASCAR drivers, andhe's so much smarter he went to
University of Pennsylvania.
He just must have had it allfigured out.
When the reality is.
Your bar graph looks the exactsame as mine in terms of it's
not straight.
There's plenty of bumps.
Those bumps were probably morebeneficial than the peaks,
(07:07):
because it's the bumps thatcreated the peaks.
So when we talk aboutcultivating a limitless mindset,
what enabled you to build yourlimitless mindset and be able to
even say the things that youjust did in the beginning, that,
hey, we all are actuallylimitless mindset and be able to
(07:29):
even say the things that youjust did in the beginning, that,
hey, we all are actuallylimitless.
What's your what crafted thatbelief for?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
you and that story.
There's so many stories.
But yeah, like you know I knowit's so cliche we only learn
from struggle.
You don't learn much fromsuccess.
But there is some truth to that.
You look at life overall itlooks a little straighter than
it is, but in the immediate termit looks like there's like are
we flatlining?
Sometimes it is those peaks andtroughs and things like that
(07:59):
For me.
I'm 52 years old and it sure ashell wasn't linear.
But are those moments of doubt,those moments of like holy SHIT
, what is going to happen here?
Like staring down, I wouldn'tsay the abyss of catastrophe,
(08:20):
but glimpsing All of a sudden?
Once you get through that,you're like wait a second, I
just did that.
What else am I capable of doing?
You know I spent 25 years onWall Street.
I graduated University ofPennsylvania.
I was a lax guy, blew my kneesout twice short, very short
career, but it definitelyaffected me.
Years and years afterwards Iwas a student athlete.
(08:41):
Now I was just a student, so Ilost my identity.
I didn't realize the effect ithad on me until I became
extremely conscious of it lateron.
I spent 25 years on Wall Street.
I enjoyed the competition, butI never wanted to do it, but
fortunately I was good at it andit took until I was 46 years
old where I thought I had aheart attack and it was a
(09:01):
massive, massive panic attack.
On paper everything looked good, was making money, healthy
family, very blessed for thethings I've had and learned.
And in that moment I'm likeholy shit, it's over.
Like this is what I do for aliving, what else am I going to
(09:21):
do?
And it took a neurologist tosay, hey, listen, pal, it's over
for you.
Like if you don't make adecision now, your timeline is
much shorter than you think itis.
Luckily, my wife was there.
I don't know how much panic wasgoing on in her and I took a
99% pay cut to leave my WallStreet career, sell my
(09:46):
partnership to become a coachback to school.
Psychological theory,neuroscience, all these things.
I'm like what am I doing?
But it's funny, like along theway, like I'm like am I gonna
have to sell my house?
Am I gonna have to liquidatecertain things to go play this
thing out?
That fear to say it wasn'tintense, is is, is an
understatement but all of asudden I'm like wait a second,
(10:10):
they started the stack.
I'm like I'm okay, I'm stillhere.
We started the stack.
I was very fortunate I'm notgoing to say I wasn't that.
I had a coach who brought me on, who was an ex-coach, who
brought me.
Instead of taking stairs, Itook an elevator and then six
months later I'm coaching atHendrick Motorsports.
(10:31):
I'm like, how does this happen?
But it really was that.
All right, I may fail at this.
That's the worst case scenario.
I may have to liquidate thingsto live.
That's the worst case scenario.
But when I realized that's notreally the worst case scenario,
the worst case scenario was Idon't give it a go that I go
back to this familiar thing thatserved me well, that I was so
(10:54):
unhappy with.
So we have a finite amount oftime here, so who am I not to
give it a go?
What's the worst case scenario?
I got to downsize, I got tobudget things, but that's not
the worst case scenario.
The worst case scenario isgoing back to what you said on
the opening.
I don't even see what I'mcapable of doing For me.
(11:23):
That would have been thebiggest regret To me.
That would have been the worstcase scenario.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
It's just amazing how life plays its hand sometimes.
I can only imagine what it'slike going from an extremely
financially lucrative career tothen having to build something
completely new and being in thecorporate world myself with
strong desires and a pursuit ofalso taking the entrepreneurial
(11:54):
side full time.
Occasionally I'll have thosebouts and moments where man like
every other Thursday, godwilling, I get thanked for my
efforts and it's prettyfinancially lucrative right now.
I can imagine what fears may bepresent when it comes time to
(12:19):
exit that.
What did that look like for you?
What were those voices, whatwere those doubts and what gave
you some hope?
Or at what point did you startnoticing those fears being
outweighed by all of theopportunities and progress that
(12:41):
you were creating and making foryourself?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
opportunities and progress that you were creating
and making for yourself?
Such an awful question.
I have a lot of examples ofthat, but the first one was
literally my first coaching job,which is at Hendrick
Motorsports.
So I roll up in Charlotte,north Carolina, and there's a
team of coaches and they justadded me.
So everyone's going to speak.
We're sitting in these directorchairs.
There's only supposed to be 20guys.
There's 60 crew guys and fivedrivers.
(13:11):
It almost looks like NikeHendrick Motorsports.
They have a performance centerand the woman I'm working for
goes.
When she looks at me, she'slike why don't you speak?
I said, excuse me.
I said I just joined the teamabout 20 seconds ago.
You want me to speak Now?
Remember, in my mind I'm aboutto sell my partnership with my
hedge fund.
I'm wearing these light grayslacks.
(13:31):
I think I look decent.
I literally have an assistantin the parking lot.
We're unwinding positions.
This is all going on at the sametime and now I have to speak.
I'm about to literally pee mypants.
Literally.
I'm like, really, this is whatit's come down to.
You are selling yourpartnership, you're about to
speak in front of 60 alpha maleswho are just animals and you
(13:55):
can't even do it.
You're about to literallyembarrass yourself in front of
all these people.
So I got up there Fear is anunderstatement, scared is I mean
.
That's left the building.
I took a breath.
I'm like you know what man?
Either this is going to work orit's not.
(14:18):
And as I started to speak andtell my story, the energy from
these guys and girls I startedto feel.
Before you know it, it was 15minutes, taking through the
highs and the lows, and Iremember when it was over, I
said to myself that was thescariest moment in my life.
(14:41):
I want more of that.
I said if I could actually dothat, I may be starting at zero,
but I want to see what this isall about.
It's something I've alwayswanted to do.
To me, the service of othershas always been important.
And that moment in time Iremember.
(15:02):
I remember the pants.
I was wearing, the shirt.
I was wearing the sweater.
I was wearing I'm like I needto be doing this.
And I remember getting off andI called my wife and I have an
identical twin brothers inSydney, australia.
I'm like I need to be doingthis.
I said I don't know what thisroad looks like and I know, like
we just said, it's not going tobe linear.
It's going to be a lot of hardwork, but I need to play this
(15:29):
thing through and that was it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, it was so important to me when you affect
people and you feel people andyou empathize with people
because you know they have somuch more in their tank.
It is one of the greatestfeelings ever.
What's it like working withfolks in high pressure
environments, such as a NASCARdriver, where they're not
(15:54):
thinking in minutes and hoursbut their split second decisions
and choices can be make orbreak.
And it's high speed, probablylittle room for thought, and I
can only imagine the mentalfortitude that is necessary to
(16:17):
be successful.
And what's your role in workingwith someone like that?
Because you're probably notgoing to Jimmy Johnson saying
your role in working withsomeone like that?
Because you're probably notgoing to Jimmy Johnson saying
all right, man, on turn two, youneed to bank, you need to start
your bank right here and I needyou to hit the clutch and
envision that clutch going in.
What does that actually looklike?
I've always been curious toexplore these relationships with
(16:40):
people in these high pressureenvironments and what you're
working with them on.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So I've met Jim and we've chatted, but I work mostly
with his Pitbull teams.
But you want to take it a stepfurther.
These guys have 12.5 seconds tomake this thing right, so they
either lose or they win.
So when you talk about splitsecond decision making-making,
right, we all talk about makingthe right decision.
(17:09):
Well, you don't know if it'sthe right decision.
The right, tells you, is theamount of time right.
We're trying to make the bestdecisions possible.
So when I coach whether it's pitcrew teams, drivers, athletes,
ceos, wall Street, all thosedifferent things and these guys
are high performers is theduration of response rate?
(17:30):
Wall Street's fast, obviously,nascar's fast.
Business is a little different.
Different sports are a littledifferent.
The frequency of eventsDifferent sports are a little
different.
The frequency of events, butreally in everything we do, is
what does your mental space looklike?
(17:50):
So when we talk about what isthe difference between reacting
and responding, so if we getbetter at knowing the difference
between the two, right Reactingis somebody comes into my house
, I've got two daughters, I'mgoing to react.
But if you say something to meand I have to respond to a
situation, I need that mentalspace right, and the more you do
(18:14):
it, the quicker it is to reallyhave the best decision possible
.
So when you talk about people inhigh pressure, high risk, high
decision places, it's really italmost looks like it slows down.
Like how are they able toexecute, to perform, to respond
(18:37):
like that?
And, by the way, fear is allover the place.
There is no such thing assomebody being fearless, but we
always hear, but in the face ofhow in God's name are they able
to do that?
That is mental performance.
Mental performance is verysimple.
(18:58):
It's very simple.
Mental performance isperformance equals potential
minus interferences.
So the more and more you get totake away and minimize
interferences which could beunconscious, what could be
impulsivity, a lot of thingsfrom the past.
If we're able to acknowledgethat and minimize that, the
(19:22):
equation shifts right.
I minimize interferences, nowthe potential we have starts to
go and then performance goes.
So all of that is an equationof awareness.
Like to know that if we canmake the unconscious conscious
and do that repetitively, webecome unconsciously conscious,
(19:43):
which sounds like flow, and that, literally, is just repetition.
That is mental performance.
That is significant training.
It doesn't happen on a Tuesday.
This is really the act ofintentionality at its best.
Can anybody do it?
Absolutely Listen.
(20:04):
I'm not Michael Jordan andnever will be, but can I be an
incredible coach who speaks well, who practices?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Of course, so why can't we all do this?
And the answer that we candiscover with bringing
consciousness to the unconscious.
(20:33):
So I've heard you mention thaton a few podcasts and that's
something that I would reallylove to explore a little more,
especially as we dig intopsychoanalysis, and really for
us to unlock our greatest levelof performance.
Using the formula potentialminus interferences that
interferences component, I wouldenvision we're often holding on
(20:59):
to things that we don't evenknow that we're holding on to,
that are holding us back, andthose things that we don't even
know we're holding on to, thatare holding us back.
And those things that we don'teven know we're holding on to
isn't something that we justpicked up yesterday.
It's something that probablygoes all the way back to
childhood, that has influencedour being.
That may not allow us to see acertain possibility that is up
(21:23):
for the grabbing, but because ofsome sort of conditioning that
we likely are not aware of atthe moment, we're stopping
ourselves.
So what are the types of thingsthat you discover that we would
likely discover in ourselveswhen we bring the unconscious to
(21:44):
conscious?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Well, a big word you just used is conditioned.
We're all conditioned, right,you know, we're pre-verbal,
we're verbal.
We know emotions evolve beforeintellect, right, I'm wet, I'm
hungry.
This is all.
psychoanalytic One is, you know,and I want to bring a big word
(22:08):
into this conversation calledcuriosity, yep, so we know that
behavior changes before feelings, right, because we know that
emotion started, then theintellect comes.
So now we see things, we keeprepeating things, we keep saying
things that no longer serve usany longer.
(22:29):
Right, our words do matterbecause it is a reflection of
the internals.
So now you know, the situationmay look different, but the
experience is the same.
It's fear of this limits mefrom this.
So get curious, say, wait asecond, the situation looks
different, but the outcome isthe same.
(22:51):
It keeps being the same.
What is holding me back?
Why do I keep repeating thesethings, even though
intellectually I know what Ineed to do, but I keep repeating
these same patterns.
That is conditioning, that isprogramming.
We know now through neuroscience, through neuroplasticity and
all these beautiful words, wecan actually reprogram the way
(23:14):
we behave.
We often can't reprogram theway we feel.
I can't control how Ryan feels,but I sure as hell can have
impact on how he behaves.
So now, when I'm happy, I'mgoing to do this.
It doesn't work that way.
When I'm no longer sad, I'mgoing to do this.
(23:35):
It doesn't work that way If westart to really be conscious of
changing our behavior.
I'll give you an example.
So I was a lacrosse guy rightRecruited to play lacrosse.
I had an identical twin brotherwent to Penn with me.
I blew my knees out once and Iblew them out again.
So now I'm a I'm a studentathlete.
Going to upenn, I blow my kneesout once I'm a little slower
(23:59):
than I do it again.
So now everybody's going toplay lacrosse.
I am no longer an athlete.
I've always been told I'm anathlete, I'm a student athlete I
am now.
I now feel less than I am, notwho I am anymore.
So now I go to Wall Street.
It's 15 years of feelinginadequate.
I never had the opportunity forpeople to see what I'm all
(24:21):
about.
So that feeling of rage, ofanger, of inadequacy is starting
to show up other places,unconsciously.
So now I want to be the biggestguy on the trading desk.
I don't care about the money, Iwant to show everybody how big
I am.
So now this past experience isnow showing itself in the
(24:42):
present.
I am completely unaware of it.
Well, this is normal, but it'snot.
I am not dealing something fromthe past.
Well, this is normal, but it'snot.
I am not dealing something fromthe past.
So I am not conscious of whatis going on here, until it gets
to a point where wait a second,this is not working Right.
Somehow I'm surviving, but I'mdefinitely there is, there is an
(25:04):
anchor holding me back.
I have to go back andunderstand what is going on here
, because somethingunconsciously in my behavior is
affecting my results.
So now, as you go back,acknowledge, explore, get
curious, say, wait a second, noway You're telling me that this
(25:28):
18-year-old kid is showing upwhen I'm 32 years old, that
hasn't healed yet.
How is that even possible?
Possible, very possible.
So for me it was like I can'tsay I don't feel inadequate.
Now I can't say I.
Through repetition andawareness, those feelings are
(25:54):
tied to a new behavior which nowhas a different experience,
which then is a differentcircuitry in the brain.
So I had to become extremelyconscious.
Like you know what, ryan, thisis no longer working for me.
This repetition, this cycle,excuse me, it's not serving me
anymore.
(26:14):
It's trying to defend me andtake care of me, but it's no
longer so.
Now, when I become conscious,I'm like you know what?
Now I have to change this.
Now I have to tie new behaviorsbecause I'm not happy.
I can't say when I'm happy,I'll do this because I don't
know when that's going to happen.
So I have to make the changenow, behaviorally, in order to
(26:37):
have different experiences andcause different circuitry in my
brain.
So now, over repetition, mydefault now is that when I'm
angry, when I have rage, when Ifeel disappointed, I don't go
back and cut it all circuitry.
I've really throughconditioning a positive side of
that and training, I can.
(27:00):
Now my default is what can wedo?
Man as opposed to?
I can't believe this ishappening to me.
It's how do I get that?
That's a shift.
Now, am I the only person inthe universe that happened to?
Of course not.
We all have this ability to getbetter.
It's really the art of.
(27:21):
We talked about intentionality,we talked about being curious,
we talked about reframing thesituation, but it's really like
who the hell do you want to feedyourself?
Do you want to feed the wolf orthe dog?
What words are we using?
Which way?
You know, when we talk aboutfeedback, there's feed forward
also.
You know what?
(27:42):
I'm not where I want to be yet.
So what do I need to do now?
This situation sucked, I got it.
Do we want to ruminate in thepast?
Do we want to ruminate in theloss, because ruminating, by the
way, is a behavior or do youwant to say you know what?
Man, that really sucked.
I acknowledge that, but whatcan I do better next time?
(28:03):
What do I need to do to makethis experience look different?
That two seconds is a massiveshift, right, and that's mindset
.
So all these things we talkabout are so true and you really
get to experience them when youput them into practice and
(28:26):
practice, and practice, and andpractice and practice, because
we're never there yet.
But I don't think there'sanything wrong with that.
I think it's very rewarding toknow that I'm going to keep
going.
I'm 52 years old.
I started my own coachingcompany last year.
Even though I've coached forseven years, I'm not even done
yet.
I have no idea where this goes,but I'm super excited to see
(28:51):
where it does Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
How does someone that's curious now take action
on this about?
I want to take inventory rightnow and go find out what might I
be holding on to that isn'tserving me.
(29:17):
How can we take action on that,evan, and inventory and be
brutally honest with ourselvesas to what may be stopping us
right now.
What may be stopping us rightnow?
Discipline is a key componentof this podcast and a key thing
(29:42):
that we preach.
We view discipline as the fuelto help you create the life that
you ultimately desire, anddiscipline being the fuel that
gets your habits and systems incheck so that you can actually
accomplish your goals.
If you're looking to level up in2025, I am happy to be a part
of that and encourage you tojoin the Unshakeable Discipline
(30:04):
Mastermind Group.
This has been my baby for acouple years and we're finally
launching it here in 2025.
The group consists of aself-paced course that teaches
you how to form core habits andmindset that will allow you to
accomplish your goals.
A daily accountability channelto keep you on track, motivated
(30:26):
and in alignment with ourmembers, and weekly mastermind
sessions where you're going tolearn from either myself or a
suite of renowned guests manywho have been on the podcast
that are going to share piecesof their winning playbooks
directly with you.
I've learned that being a partof groups over the years has
(30:48):
helped propel me to so many newlevels in life.
If you want to go fast, go alone.
If you want to go far, then gotogether, and it's my wish that
the Unshakable Crew is a choicethat makes sense for you in 2025
.
We are growing up to 100members this year and have
(31:12):
limited time founding memberpricing for 12 more folks before
we permanently increase pricingto $97 a month.
Be a part of the adventure thatwe're creating with our members
.
If you're somebody that cravesdiscipline, seeks it or wants it
(31:36):
this year, and you're reallycommitted to making lasting
changes in your life and beingaround others that are committed
to winning and serving theworld and sharing what they
learn with others so that wemake this world a better place,
and sharing what they learn withothers so that we make this
world a better place, then jointhe Unshakeable crew.
Go to unshakabledisciplinecomand you can sign up.
(31:58):
It is also in the show notesUnshakeable shake, as in
milkshake,unshakabledisciplinecom, and
we're excited to have you in2025.
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Such a powerful question and actually it's a
question actually.
So we know, when we go into aninterview, right, we're sitting
in an interview and the personasking the questions usually is
in the seat of influence, right,the interviewer, right, but
ironically, self-exploratoryquestions.
(32:34):
What is this all about?
Why do I keep repeating thesethings?
Verbal, as we say it, verbally,not thinking it, but verbal.
When we ask self-exploratoryquestions, it puts us, the
person in the seat of influence,so asking why do I keep doing
that?
What is going on here?
Why do I feel so impulsivedoing this?
(33:01):
Why am I so angry?
Now, oftentimes there'ssomething called resistance,
right.
When we talk aboutpsychological theory, right,
it's like a vault in the backthat you just can't get into.
When we ask self-exploratoryquestions, it starts to
stimulate the unconscious andthe beauty about these questions
.
You don't have to answer them.
We want to find the answer,right, because we want to find
the cure, like this is going tohelp me.
(33:23):
But as we take a walk in nature, like why am I doing this?
Let it sit, let it stimulateyour unconscious.
Maybe two days it pops out,maybe in a dream it comes out.
But we don't have to answer.
We have to ask.
The art of asking is veryconscious, because when we try
(33:44):
to force an answer, it's usuallynot the right answer.
Let it sit.
But you know, we talk aboutmindfulness and all these things
when you sit down and askyourself, like what am I doing
here?
That's why the art of writingright, journaling is so
important.
Right, it's a consciousness.
Try to find something whereyou're asking yourself questions
(34:11):
and giving yourself space,unconsciously, to figure it out.
That is the greatest act ofmindfulness.
You know, when we sit there andwe meditate, whatever you do,
be quiet, just sit for a littlebit.
But really, the art of askingyourself questions is so
(34:34):
powerful.
As a coach, I'm not in anyadvice business.
My business is to try toexplore and uncover what those
interferences are in order toleverage potential and boost
performance.
So, the more we're able youknow we call it addition by
(34:56):
subtraction.
If I could take out some of thestuff that's holding us back,
imagine what we can do.
There are anchors in life.
We all have them.
We all have these resistances.
We all have this conditioning.
Give yourself time to exploreit.
I'm not saying stay scubadiving for the rest of your life
(35:19):
.
It could be a little snorkeling.
But the difference betweencoaching and therapy is we marry
the why and the how as we thinkabout this, like why am I doing
this?
Our job as coaches is to startimplementing new behaviors.
So one of the things I do, youknow, usually with clients and
(35:39):
my old boss used to be like whyare we doing this again?
I said let's jump into the coldshower.
People are like cold shower,why are we taking a cold shower?
I don't want to do that.
I know you don't want to dothat, but I want to put you in a
place where you now are doingsomething you don't want to do,
even though we know howbeneficial it is, but you're
doing it anyway.
That's a behavior shift.
(35:59):
Who the hell wants to take thecold shit?
We know dopamine six hours yourbrain.
It's just incredible.
I've done it for 15 years.
I still hate it, but for meit's one of those things like
you know what, if I could dothis, what else am I capable of
doing?
(36:20):
It's a behavior shift.
Once you start to believe, itlike, wait a second, I can do
that, I can do that.
It builds evidence.
So now, if we're consistentwith that evidence, that builds
confidence and now it's almostlike all right, we're on the
(36:43):
right track here.
Not linear, right, things aregoing to come our way right.
We can't time the deliverytruck.
That has obstacles, hurdles andchallenges, but we sure as hell
can get up footing fast.
We know what exit to get off of.
We build that confidence right.
(37:03):
So when we always thinkpositive, I think having a
positive outlook and having apositive attitude is important.
But positive psychologysometimes gets a bad rap, and
the reason why is it can betoxic, because you know what we
do live in reality.
You know, ryan, I want the bestfor you but I can't guarantee
that the delivery truck's notgoing to come.
(37:25):
But I want to make sure thatyou can get your footing as fast
as possible.
But I want to make sure thatyou can get your footing as fast
as possible, that we don't haveto react.
We're able to respond.
We can feel the fear of this,of that.
You take your breath, we getsettled in and then we go To me.
(37:46):
that's incredible.
So in moments and those areopportunistic moments sometimes
yeah, no-transcript.
So how people thrive in thoseenvironments, that is mental
(38:06):
performance.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Are there any as it relates to the questions, one
that I often ruminate on is whatmakes this thought that I'm
having true.
Is what makes this thought?
that I'm having true or why am I?
What's driving this thought?
(38:30):
And sit with it for a while,and then sometimes I'll keep
asking why and why and why somany times, to where you can
then eventually discover theroot cause.
It's actually something that wedo a lot in manufacturing.
Why did we blow a hole?
Well, we didn't have the rootcause.
It's actually something that wedo a lot in manufacturing.
Why did we blow a hole?
Well, we didn't have the righttool.
Why didn't we have the righttool?
(38:51):
Well, there was no process forwhere the tool should go.
And when we do that with ourlives sometimes just even asking
why and why and why and whyyou'll boil down to the root of
what's driving a thought, abelief, and then you can examine
(39:14):
it and rewire it.
I mentioned that example andwhat I gathered from you.
It occurs to me that,regardless of if we are, if we
deem ourselves as highperformance experts right now,
or we're jumping on the trainwhere this journey is new to us,
constant self-inquiry andexploration is critical for
(39:43):
everybody, regardless of whatstage you're at.
Are there some additionalcornerstone questions or
fundamental questions that, hey,if it was these one to two that
everybody should constantlyexplore, it's these ones and I
know it's not a one size fitsall, but based off of what you
(40:05):
found that helps peopleunderstand the most about
themselves.
What would those be?
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Well, you know, there's some great questions out
there, but the most importantthing is when we react, it's
impulsive, it's a craving, right, it's just seconds really,
whether it's alcohol, whetherit's feeling defensive and
reacting, we're talking likeless than seconds.
(40:33):
So why is it important to askquestions?
So one of the greatestquestions I ask what am I trying
to accomplish here?
Right, that in the moment, sayyou know, what am I trying to
accomplish here?
Right, that in the moment, sayyou know, what am I trying to
accomplish?
What's my mission?
Right, that's an easy question.
But when you get in that moment,is this good, is this good for
me or bad for me?
It's such a crazy question,right?
(40:55):
Well, it's bad, all right, yougive a little space, we won't do
what we're about to do.
Right, the odds of you reactingis mitigated.
I can't guarantee that's notgoing to happen.
Obviously I'm not foolish, buthaving that second.
So the reason questions are sopowerful is that we're
(41:17):
recognizing that something'sgoing on.
We're no longer an autopilotgoing on, we're no longer an
autopilot.
So whatever question resonateswith you like for me it's
usually is this helping orhurting me?
The simple act of asking.
(41:41):
That puts space between how Ifeel and what I'm about to do.
It makes me more conscious,right?
So when you, by the way, yourexample, why am I using this
tool?
When we go practically down,why this, then why am I doing
that?
What does this mean to me?
Those are brilliant, right, and, like I said, we may not know
the answer.
But when you start to be reallygo down the road of
(42:04):
self-exploration, one, it's veryscary, right.
Sometimes we are not ready forthe answer, and that's all right
.
It may not come up when youwant it, but that's, you know,
the self-exploration, theself-exploratory questions, the
(42:25):
questions we ask ourselves, isjust the act of consciousness,
because, you know, I do believewe all want to get better.
Some of us, unconsciously,don't think we deserve to get
better, right?
So when you have somebody like,of course, I want to be
successful, unconsciously theydon't, right, because there's a
(42:47):
loyalty to somebody in theirpast, it's, it's.
You know what.
It sounds crazy, but it's true.
So, whatever we're trying toachieve, what we're trying to
accomplish, if all of a suddenthere's hurdles and obstacles in
your way, ask why am I feelingthis way and how am I feeling,
(43:12):
and why you start to do that?
And this doesn't happen everyday, everything.
But you start to really buildthat awareness muscle and you
attach a behavior to that wherethat feeling, an old feeling,
has a new behavior.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
It's interesting, absolutely.
And another thing that ispresent for me right now.
What we're talking about is howdo we influence our thought
patterns, which then couldtrigger our beliefs or the
actions we take.
But another thing that Ibelieve this plays into is what
(43:58):
do we allow ourselves to hear,to hear and going into and
here's an example of one thatI've worked on rewiring that,
and what I want what I'd likefor you to do is think about
what's a thought or what'ssomething that you weren't able
(44:19):
to hear before, or somethingthat maybe people that you've
helped weren't able to hearbefore, and talk through that
process of then being able toactually hear something
different.
So, with my mom I love my mom todeath.
I was just talking about her ona podcast two days ago with a
(44:43):
spiritual psychologist a podcasttwo days ago with a spiritual
psychologist and I remember thatas a kid and into my teenage
years that if it's cold out, asan example, my mom would always
say did you bring your jacket,did you bring your gloves?
And it used to frustrate me somuch loves, and it used to
(45:09):
frustrate me so much becausewhat I heard is I don't trust
you to be an adult and to beindependent and you're not
capable of making decisions.
Because I thought back to veryearly years when there were some
people that told me I couldn'tdo things or that I didn't have
the ability to accomplishsomething.
So every time my mom would saysomething like that, I would get
(45:32):
upset and I wasn't allowingmyself to hear what I hear now,
because now, being 32, Irecognize that my mom will still
to this day and for the rest ofmy life.
If it's cold out, did you bringyour jacket, ryan?
Did you leave water running sothe pipes don't freeze over and
burst?
What I hear now is it's justsomeone that's loving me right
(45:56):
now.
It's just somebody that lovesme and is looking out for me.
It's interesting and that tooka lot of practice and a lot of
work.
That it wasn't just I made thatdecision and then the next time
she called me and asked meabout that, that, oh, it's
(46:17):
someone that loves me yeah, butnow I don't even think twice
about oh, it's someone thatdoesn't trust me.
So, as I bring that up, isthere anything that has rang
true for you with not being ableto hear a certain message?
And now you're able to?
(46:38):
And what did that look like,because I believe that all plays
into mental performance.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
It's a great question .
Trying to shift through.
You know, it's interesting.
My mother raised, so I have asingle.
I was raised by a single mother.
Excuse me, let me script more.
So I have an identical twinbrother and an older brother who
was handicapped, passed away acouple years ago, and I was
raised by a single mom, two jobsand my father wasn't around
(47:15):
much and but he'd been marriedfive times.
I have seven brothers andsisters, three from my mom,
there's four of us, I mean justranging from 65 to 31.
And he was a crack.
He was a crackhead.
He had been successful,homeless, all these things.
So you know, growing up wedidn't have a father figure ring
, anything like that.
And you know, being analcoholic and a drug addict and
(47:39):
things like that, you know Ialways thought drug addicts and
alcoholics were mean, nasty,violent, and he was none of
those.
So I always felt bad for himand he was never in my life
really, maybe up until I was 13,I'd seen him, but after that it
was nothing.
Never saw us play the cross orplay soccer or anything like
that.
But it's ironic.
(48:00):
As life continued, I startedmimicking him, went to an Ivy
League school, had some greatfriendships.
All of a sudden, the drinkingstarts to pick up.
What the fuck is that aboutMarriage?
What just happened?
All these things I'm like waita second man.
(48:23):
How in God's name am Ifollowing this guy?
He's had no conscious impact onmy life, but it's one of those
things where I didn't know thatI was literally looking at a car
(48:43):
crash and I was about to gointo it.
It's man I didn't think had anyimpact on me, but the yearning
for a father figure in my life,the yearning for to not be
better than him Because I didn'twant to show him up it sounds
nuts, but all of a sudden I wastrying to be.
(49:05):
You know, it's such aninteresting thing.
I was trying to be loyal to him, like I didn't want to be
better than him.
I want to do what he did.
How nuts is that?
And it literally took me until Iwas, I think, your age to say
wait a second.
And it literally took me untilI was, I think, your age to say
(49:28):
wait a second.
How in God's name am I going toget in this car and I can see
the car crash.
I have this school, I'm with agreat firm, I'm at a hedge fund.
Things are going well and I'mabout to throw this all away.
For what?
So you know, it's your story,it's a different side of it, but
I'm like how this makes nosense to me.
(49:51):
So you know, when we talk aboutpeople in general, sometimes
this stuff doesn't make anysense.
And there is this tie, thisunconscious tie, this well,
obviously, ryan put a jacket on.
That shouldn't really affectyour feelings.
It's your mother.
(50:12):
She don't want you to be cold,but you're taking, like you
don't trust me.
Like, well, that doesn't makeany sense.
She's just telling you to put acoat on.
But this is your experience.
This is how you feel.
This is how you're triggered.
Like I tell this to people, likeare you kidding me?
I said I swear to God it's atrue story.
Like, but I don't see that.
(50:33):
But you're not me, you're notliving my experience.
Like I'm not living yourexperience.
And once we are able to put aspotlight and see what it is,
you're like, wow.
And if I can take this a stepfurther, this is why I got into
this business, because how, inGod's name, can a man who did
(50:55):
shit for me, nothing, have sucha profound impact on my behavior
, how I had an incredible motherwhy you start going down that
rabbit hole.
You start to become a studentof how you think, how you behave
(51:18):
and, to be quite honest, that'show I got into coaching.
I'm like how in God's name isthis happening to me?
This man never saw.
He went to the wrong school tosee his play across.
He went to Penn State insteadof UPenn.
He had no idea we went toschool.
Why is there such a profoundinfluence on my behavior?
(51:41):
So we have to work throughthese things.
Right, you know, like there's apossibility, like we're acting
a certain way because of this.
So why not ask questions, getmore curious and figure out?
(52:02):
We don't have to stay there thewhole time.
But like, is there apossibility that I'm doing these
things unconsciously?
And if the answer is yes, letme tell you.
If you think you're the problem, you sure as hell can be part
(52:23):
of the solution.
That's right.
And when you're able to moveand trust yourself, it's one of
the most profound feelings ever.
Nobody's perfect Nobody.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
I know that for a fact, and a lot of this is
coming back to exploringcuriosity and that really being
a key component in mentalperformance.
Talk through, since you have atalk coming up about this,
(52:59):
what's the relationship betweencuriosity and mental performance
, as we are learning all abouthow to cultivate more mental
performance in this discussion.
How do those two feed eachother?
Speaker 1 (53:19):
Well, thank you for the segue, by the way.
So I'm doing a TEDx talk,hopefully in the next couple of
months.
We're trying to find the venuenow about curiosity and mental
performance.
So when we think aboutcuriosity right, curiosity in
its essence is informationseeking.
That's what it means.
So how does it affect mentalperformance and how does it
(53:40):
excuse me, play into mentalperformance?
Well, let's just think about it.
If I said to you, I'm curious tosee if we start this company,
if we start this practice, whatcould it look like?
You'd be like, I don't know,let's go see, as opposed to
let's go start this.
Well, you know we could fail,we may not win.
(54:00):
This may take longer than wethink, but if you're curious, it
almost goes around thatresistance of well, my father
failed.
I've learned this that youdon't take risks, because if you
(54:21):
take risks, bad things happen.
But if you get curious and sayyou know what, let me see, the
intensity of the fear of dot dotdot is lessened Because I'm
interested.
That alone opens up so manydifferent paths for you to take,
(54:41):
because you know what?
We may be wrong.
Well, yeah, I'm just curiousCourtesy of what happens.
And so now, as you forge ahead.
That opens doors ofpossibilities Because, hey,
listen, by the way, we may bewrong.
All right, let's see what itlooks like, let's gather
(55:04):
information.
So, as we gather information,you know what.
That didn't work.
However, I think this couldwork, and now the way we wire
our brain is so materiallydifferent.
Ryan, let's go do this.
Well, you know, I'm justcurious.
Worst case scenario we fail.
All right, I'll give.
I don't know, ev, what happensif it fails?
(55:47):
Well, it may fail.
Let's get curious and see whathappens.
It is one of those things andI'm sure I mean we've obviously
done research on this, but itgoes back to the words we use
and how we reframe things andhow we choose to look at things.
Like, I started M1.
(56:09):
I know nothing about socialmedia, never been on a podcast
before last year, anything.
So my wife said what do youthink?
I said I have no idea.
I said I'm going to give it ago.
She goes what's the worst casescenario?
That I don't do it?
Right, but I'm curious to see.
I'm curious to learn.
I know it's not linear, but Iknow I'm going to learn a lot.
(56:32):
What a great mindset.
It's not void of sailing, it'snot, but it gives you better
probabilities of success.
You know why?
Because you're actually goingto go and try to do it.
Because if you don't try to doit, the probability of success
(56:55):
is zero.
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
It's incredible.
One of my favorite books is theFour Agreements by Don Miguel
Ruiz, and in there it talksabout the first agreement really
being the power of your wordand being your word A component
of performance is absolutelypowerful language, because
(57:27):
language is the creator of allthings.
Language is what created M1.
Language is what created thispodcast.
Language, both spoken word andunspoken word, can be the
difference maker between whatenables us to take action or sit
on the sidelines and believethat we can't do whatever it is
(57:50):
that we absolutely can do.
What are some words or phrasesthat you believe we should
absolutely eliminate from ourbeing, because they ultimately
stop us or hold us back versuspush us forward?
(58:13):
Let me, let me, let me, let me.
Can I twist that a little bit?
Speaker 1 (58:19):
How about?
I'm going to go.
Instead of that, I'm going togo the other way.
So these are things that weshould be saying to ourselves.
These are things that what weknow, the can'ts, I'm not
capable, I'm not ready.
When I have this, I'll do this.
When I feel this way, I'llbehave this way, but we know
that let's switch it right,because we want to start
(58:41):
thinking.
We want to start feedingourselves.
Well, I.
Let's switch it right Becausewe want to start thinking.
We want to start feedingourselves.
Well, I'm not there yet.
I'm not there yet.
I'll get there.
Yet how about this one, nike,just do it.
People think the biggest wordin that three-word slogan is do.
But it's not, it's just Right,do it is.
(59:04):
Everybody knows it.
Just do it.
Give.
It's not, it's just Right, doit.
As everybody knows it.
Just do it.
Give it a go.
That word just is massive.
The words we use, right, becausewe know the brain doesn't know
can and can't.
We've heard this since we'relike little babies.
Right, don't say can, itdoesn't know the difference,
yada, yada, yada.
But let's start feedingourselves.
(59:26):
Well, this is extremelychallenging.
What else am I capable oftelling people Right?
All of a sudden, like you know,unfortunately in my life right
now, my dog's extremely sick, mymother has cancer and I feel
extremely overwhelmed.
Okay, alright, ev, you'reentitled to feel the way you
(59:49):
feel.
But what do we need to do today?
All right, I can't shake offthe sadness, I can't shake off
the worry, but what do I need todo?
Excuse me, what do I need to dotoday in order to keep me going
in the right direction?
It's these things Not like ohman, this sucks, no, shit sucks.
(01:00:13):
What do I need to be doing?
What words do I need to use tokeep me moving.
I am not void of feeling sad.
I am not void of feelingwhatever I want to feel, but it
doesn't help me if thosefeelings get onto the field and
(01:00:33):
I'm stagnant.
I'm allowed to feel whateverthe hell I want.
I'm allowed to grieve, I'mallowed to feel sad.
I'm allowed to have my moment.
But what do I need to do?
Like, those are big moments,right?
(01:00:56):
So it is the words we use.
I can't believe this ishappening to me.
It is All right.
What do I want to do with it?
How can I?
You know, it's not alwaysgetting better.
But what do I need to do tokeep moving forward?
Right, because that does buildresilience, it does build
empathy, it does buildcompassion, but it really is a
(01:01:18):
mirror.
Like you know what man?
I'm allowed to feel, how I wantto feel, but I also have the
ability, the courage, thestrength, the fortitude, the
resilience, the perseverance tokeep going.
That's important, but it'simportant to feel it.
I feel very sad, I feel verynervous, but I need to get my
(01:01:40):
clarity.
I need to share it with peoplewho I love and respect.
This is how I'm feeling rightnow and have my moment, but I
need to feed myself well.
Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
I appreciate you sharing that.
It's okay to feel and when wethink about high performance, I
believe it can often create thismisconception that the highest
performers are always inelevated states and, while
(01:02:13):
there's some validity to thatassumption that, hey, maybe it's
not always in an elevated state, but they're not going to allow
themselves to be drugged down,but they're not going to allow
themselves to be drugged downand they might be in an elevated
state, or rather, they might bedoing amazing things, but
(01:02:36):
they're still human and it'sokay to feel sad.
Because I believe there's alsothis thought that, okay, once
you commit to this lifestyle andyou do all these things that
Evan's talking about, thatyou're going to be a robot and
you're always going to be on topof the world, and that's just
not the case and it's okay tonot always feel that way.
(01:02:58):
So I appreciate that youbrought some light to that.
Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
I appreciate that you brought some light to that.
You have to give yourselfpermission to feel and actually
having the ability to do that.
We talk about these perceivednegative emotions rage, anger,
frustration, embarrassment beingjudged.
We have the ability to use theintensity of those emotions to
(01:03:24):
actually propel us forward.
Right, emotions have energy.
Right, we have energy.
How do we use that intensity topropel us forward, to give us
better clarity, to get us inthat quote-unquote elevated
(01:03:48):
state, like you know, for me,like my mother used to call it,
we played lacrosse and soccerwith what she called controlled
rage, controlled anger, right,like one of the greatest places
to take it out on the field.
But it was controlled.
It was a great healthy outcome.
It was so.
How do we use these emotionsthat just died?
(01:04:10):
How do we use them to ourbenefit?
You have to give yourself thatpermission to feel.
We're human beings.
We're going to feel sad, we'regoing to feel joy, we're going
to feel anger, we're going tofeel happiness.
It's a feeling.
(01:04:32):
Feel the Roy G Bibbs or therainbow of these emotions.
But know one thing though wereally have the opportunity and
the power to choose how we wantto behave.
That's right.
Again and again and again,that's the best part you can
(01:04:56):
literally let go of the world.
We don't have to playtug-of-war with these emotions.
They are what they are.
I can't control them, but wecan definitely choose how we
want to behave, and that reallycreates different experiences
and new circuits in the brain,and that's an incredible thing.
Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
I believe we could sum up a lot of what we're
talking about into one sentencethat we all possess the power to
create more than we could everbelieve possible.
More than we could ever believepossible.
And, if I were to throw onemore in there, that we also
(01:05:32):
possess all of the ability rightnow to explore and understand
the answers to what it is thatreally drives us, and we can
also manipulate that to the waythat we envision serving us best
.
Evan, this has been aphenomenal conversation.
(01:05:54):
Our closing tradition on thepodcast is a rapid fire session
and the way this works is,envision that you and I are
going to lunch at a really coolspot up in New York and we're
going up three elevator floors.
So as we go up each floor,someone's going to get on the
(01:06:22):
elevator and they recognize you.
They're going to ask you onequestion.
The amount of time you have toanswer this question is the
amount of time it takes to go upone elevator floor.
All right, so this is one gem.
One step, one book.
So first person gets on.
Evan, what's one gem that youhave, whether it be a quote or a
(01:06:42):
mantra that you live your lifeby, that I can put in my back
pocket and perhaps live my lifeby as well.
Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Remember tomorrow.
Remember what you do todayaffects tomorrow.
Next one Remember tomorrow,like it matters.
Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
Haven't heard that one before?
Awesome.
Next person gets on.
That's the end.
Click.
Next person gets on Right.
Awesome, Next person gets on.
Next person gets on Evan.
What's?
Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
one step that I can take today to become more
mentally tough Be conscious ofyour breath.
When we're conscious ofbreathing, take four in, eight
out.
We manipulate our nervoussystem.
Breath is obviously extremelyimportant, but it's also an
incredible act of consciousness.
Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Last person, Evan.
What's one book that we canread in 2025 to bolster our
mindsets and become better,higher performers?
Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
I think Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl
when we talk about triggers andstimulus and space presence,
freedom, power, and then actionand response, it's one of the
greatest books I've ever read.
It's had the most profoundimpact on me Man's Search for
Meaning by Viktor Frankl.
Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
It's a the most profound impact on me Man's
search for meaning.
It's a phenomenal book.
Evan, this has been a blast andwe'll have everything, all of
your information linked in thenotes.
Folks, keep up with Evan andall of the amazing work that
he's doing with M1 PerformanceGroup.
Remember that we all possessthe power to create our greatest
(01:08:27):
lives.
We all possess the ability tobe high performers and when we
are highly conscious of theunconscious, we can really
explore and experience ourgreatest selves and win today.
Thanks so much.
So when we think about curiosity right, curiosity
in its essence is informationseeking.
That's what it means.
So how does it affect mentalperformance?
And how does it excuse me, playinto mental performance?
Let's just think about it.
If I said to you, I'm curious tosee if we start this company,
(00:21):
if we start this practice, whatcould it look like?
But I don't know, let's go see,as opposed to let's go start
this company.
If we start this practice, whatcould it look like?
But I don't know, let's go see,as opposed to let's go start
this.
Well, you know, we could fail.
We may not win.
This may take longer than wethink, but if you're curious,
it's almost goes around thatresistance of, well, my father
(00:44):
failed.
I've learned this that youdon't take risks, because if you
take risks, bad things happen.
But if you get curious and sayyou know what, let me see, the
intensity of the fear of dot dotdot is lessened.
I'm interested.
Of the fear of dot dot dot islessened.
(01:04):
I'm interested.
That alone opens up so manydifferent paths for you to take,
because you know what we may bewrong.
Well, yeah, I'm just curious.
I'm curious to see what happens.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
And so now as you forge ahead.
That almost bringspossibilities.
Welcome to the WednesdayPodcast, a weekly resource
thoughtfully crafted to helppeople build and refine
discipline, accomplish theirgoals, fortify their mindsets
and be of service to somebody inthis world.
My name is Ryan Cass and I amyour host, and it is my mission
and commitment to deliveramazing episodes to you every
(01:50):
week where you'll learn frommyself or renowned expert in
their field.
We love helping people win inevery aspect of their lives, and
you can help us win by sharingthe show with somebody that you
believe will benefit from it,subscribing and leaving a rating
and review.
We believe that everybody inthis world is meant to do
(02:11):
something great with their livesand we're here to help play a
role in that.
Thank you for tuning in andlet's win today.
What would life look likewithout self-induced limitations
?
What would life look likewithout self-induced limitations
?
What would life look like, freeof procrastination from the
future that we ultimatelyenvision for ourselves?
(02:35):
If we sit with that and exploreit for a minute, we'd likely
see endless possibilities andthings that we wish were in
reach right now.
Endless possibilities andthings that we wish were in
reach right now.
We have all the tools that areneeded to create the life that
we ultimately envision, and it'sthrough people like Evan Marks
(02:55):
who helped make that apossibility.
He has gone from Wall Street tothe pit stop, as he is a mental
performance coach for athletes,NASCAR drivers, Wall Street
traders, the elite of the elitein the business world, and he
has been an amazingtransformation story himself,
(03:20):
Evan.
Welcome, brother Ryan.
What a pleasure to be here,brother.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I've been looking forward to this all week, and
obviously to everybody else,happy Valentine's.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Day Since we first spoke, I was juiced up.
I felt like we could have gonefor hours and I'm excited for
people to experience thatNortheast energy that you bring,
and we said some cool thingsabout you.
You've worked with some amazingpeople.
You have access to a lot ofincredible people notables that
(03:52):
we talk about day in, day out,that we often reference as
examples for the type of peoplethat we want to be.
But before we really explorethat, what's the most important
thing for the world to knowabout you?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I think for anybody who wants to achieve anything in
life, nothing is linear.
You know, when you look atsomebody who's accomplished
something, or the things thatyou model or that you emulate,
never think it's linear, likethere is struggle in life, there
is pain in life, but it really,you know, like you just said in
(04:30):
that intro, we are limitless ifwe choose to believe that you
know and and and you know.
The people I coach and thepeople I associate with like to
be in that, that lane wherelet's see what, where it takes
us.
And that's all right if youwant to go in the slow lane and
this is what you want out oflife, but if you want more and
(04:52):
you believe in possibilities andyou're so curious about what
else is out there, then go forit because it is limitless.
Expectations are nothing.
You know.
People have broken expectationstime and time again.
I can't believe.
Oh yeah, they did it again.
So why put limits on yourself?
It really is.
It's having the power tobelieve Like you know what, what
(05:18):
am I really capable of doing?
Talent will take you so far,but you put that effort in that
belief system and that daily,where day stack, week stack,
month stack you have no ideawhat is possible, and that's
exciting to me.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
You're absolutely right that there is no linear
path, and when I'm giving mykeynotes especially if I'm
speaking at a college and I'vegot a whiteboard available to me
, I'll go up and draw a simplechart with a straight line and
(05:57):
then I'll draw another line.
They both arrive at the samedestination, but this second
line has the peaks, the valleys.
The peaks, the big highs, thelow lows, and then I'll point
and say which one is morerepresentative of life.
(06:18):
Of course we would envisionthat it's the linear line and
sometimes we create thatnarrative for everybody else.
That man, evan, just had itfigured out.
He went from Wall Street to tocoaching Jimmy Johnson and some
(06:40):
of the top NASCAR drivers, andhe's so much smarter he went to
University of Pennsylvania.
He just must have had it allfigured out.
When the reality is.
Your bar graph looks the exactsame as mine in terms of it's
not straight.
There's plenty of bumps.
Those bumps were probably morebeneficial than the peaks,
(07:07):
because it's the bumps thatcreated the peaks.
So when we talk aboutcultivating a limitless mindset,
what enabled you to build yourlimitless mindset and be able to
even say the things that youjust did in the beginning, that,
hey, we all are actuallylimitless mindset and be able to
(07:29):
even say the things that youjust did in the beginning, that,
hey, we all are actuallylimitless.
What's your what crafted thatbelief for?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
you and that story.
There's so many stories.
But yeah, like you know I knowit's so cliche we only learn
from struggle.
You don't learn much fromsuccess.
But there is some truth to that.
You look at life overall itlooks a little straighter than
it is, but in the immediate termit looks like there's like are
we flatlining?
Sometimes it is those peaks andtroughs and things like that
(07:59):
For me.
I'm 52 years old and it sure ashell wasn't linear.
But are those moments of doubt,those moments of like holy SHIT
, what is going to happen here?
Like staring down, I wouldn'tsay the abyss of catastrophe,
(08:20):
but glimpsing All of a sudden?
Once you get through that,you're like wait a second, I
just did that.
What else am I capable of doing?
You know I spent 25 years onWall Street.
I graduated University ofPennsylvania.
I was a lax guy, blew my kneesout twice short, very short
career, but it definitelyaffected me.
Years and years afterwards Iwas a student athlete.
(08:41):
Now I was just a student, so Ilost my identity.
I didn't realize the effect ithad on me until I became
extremely conscious of it lateron.
I spent 25 years on Wall Street.
I enjoyed the competition, butI never wanted to do it, but
fortunately I was good at it andit took until I was 46 years
old where I thought I had aheart attack and it was a
(09:01):
massive, massive panic attack.
On paper everything looked good, was making money, healthy
family, very blessed for thethings I've had and learned.
And in that moment I'm likeholy shit, it's over.
Like this is what I do for aliving, what else am I going to
(09:21):
do?
And it took a neurologist tosay, hey, listen, pal, it's over
for you.
Like if you don't make adecision now, your timeline is
much shorter than you think itis.
Luckily, my wife was there.
I don't know how much panic wasgoing on in her and I took a
99% pay cut to leave my WallStreet career, sell my
(09:46):
partnership to become a coachback to school.
Psychological theory,neuroscience, all these things.
I'm like what am I doing?
But it's funny, like along theway, like I'm like am I gonna
have to sell my house?
Am I gonna have to liquidatecertain things to go play this
thing out?
That fear to say it wasn'tintense, is is, is an
understatement but all of asudden I'm like wait a second,
(10:10):
they started the stack.
I'm like I'm okay, I'm stillhere.
We started the stack.
I was very fortunate I'm notgoing to say I wasn't that.
I had a coach who brought me on, who was an ex-coach, who
brought me.
Instead of taking stairs, Itook an elevator and then six
months later I'm coaching atHendrick Motorsports.
(10:31):
I'm like, how does this happen?
But it really was that.
All right, I may fail at this.
That's the worst case scenario.
I may have to liquidate thingsto live.
That's the worst case scenario.
But when I realized that's notreally the worst case scenario,
the worst case scenario was Idon't give it a go that I go
back to this familiar thing thatserved me well, that I was so
(10:54):
unhappy with.
So we have a finite amount oftime here, so who am I not to
give it a go?
What's the worst case scenario?
I got to downsize, I got tobudget things, but that's not
the worst case scenario.
The worst case scenario isgoing back to what you said on
the opening.
I don't even see what I'mcapable of doing For me.
(11:23):
That would have been thebiggest regret To me.
That would have been the worstcase scenario.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
It's just amazing how life plays its hand sometimes.
I can only imagine what it'slike going from an extremely
financially lucrative career tothen having to build something
completely new and being in thecorporate world myself with
strong desires and a pursuit ofalso taking the entrepreneurial
(11:54):
side full time.
Occasionally I'll have thosebouts and moments where man like
every other Thursday, godwilling, I get thanked for my
efforts and it's prettyfinancially lucrative right now.
I can imagine what fears may bepresent when it comes time to
(12:19):
exit that.
What did that look like for you?
What were those voices, whatwere those doubts and what gave
you some hope?
Or at what point did you startnoticing those fears being
outweighed by all of theopportunities and progress that
(12:41):
you were creating and making foryourself?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
opportunities and progress that you were creating
and making for yourself?
Such an awful question.
I have a lot of examples ofthat, but the first one was
literally my first coaching job,which is at Hendrick
Motorsports.
So I roll up in Charlotte,north Carolina, and there's a
team of coaches and they justadded me.
So everyone's going to speak.
We're sitting in these directorchairs.
There's only supposed to be 20guys.
There's 60 crew guys and fivedrivers.
(13:11):
It almost looks like NikeHendrick Motorsports.
They have a performance centerand the woman I'm working for
goes.
When she looks at me, she'slike why don't you speak?
I said, excuse me.
I said I just joined the teamabout 20 seconds ago.
You want me to speak Now?
Remember, in my mind I'm aboutto sell my partnership with my
hedge fund.
I'm wearing these light grayslacks.
(13:31):
I think I look decent.
I literally have an assistantin the parking lot.
We're unwinding positions.
This is all going on at the sametime and now I have to speak.
I'm about to literally pee mypants.
Literally.
I'm like, really, this is whatit's come down to.
You are selling yourpartnership, you're about to
speak in front of 60 alpha maleswho are just animals and you
(13:55):
can't even do it.
You're about to literallyembarrass yourself in front of
all these people.
So I got up there Fear is anunderstatement, scared is I mean
.
That's left the building.
I took a breath.
I'm like you know what man?
Either this is going to work orit's not.
(14:18):
And as I started to speak andtell my story, the energy from
these guys and girls I startedto feel.
Before you know it, it was 15minutes, taking through the
highs and the lows, and Iremember when it was over, I
said to myself that was thescariest moment in my life.
(14:41):
I want more of that.
I said if I could actually dothat, I may be starting at zero,
but I want to see what this isall about.
It's something I've alwayswanted to do.
To me, the service of othershas always been important.
And that moment in time Iremember.
(15:02):
I remember the pants.
I was wearing, the shirt.
I was wearing the sweater.
I was wearing I'm like I needto be doing this.
And I remember getting off andI called my wife and I have an
identical twin brothers inSydney, australia.
I'm like I need to be doingthis.
I said I don't know what thisroad looks like and I know, like
we just said, it's not going tobe linear.
It's going to be a lot of hardwork, but I need to play this
(15:29):
thing through and that was it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, it was so important to me when you affect
people and you feel people andyou empathize with people
because you know they have somuch more in their tank.
It is one of the greatestfeelings ever.
What's it like working withfolks in high pressure
environments, such as a NASCARdriver, where they're not
(15:54):
thinking in minutes and hoursbut their split second decisions
and choices can be make orbreak.
And it's high speed, probablylittle room for thought, and I
can only imagine the mentalfortitude that is necessary to
(16:17):
be successful.
And what's your role in workingwith someone like that?
Because you're probably notgoing to Jimmy Johnson saying
your role in working withsomeone like that?
Because you're probably notgoing to Jimmy Johnson saying
all right, man, on turn two, youneed to bank, you need to start
your bank right here and I needyou to hit the clutch and
envision that clutch going in.
What does that actually looklike?
I've always been curious toexplore these relationships with
(16:40):
people in these high pressureenvironments and what you're
working with them on.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So I've met Jim and we've chatted, but I work mostly
with his Pitbull teams.
But you want to take it a stepfurther.
These guys have 12.5 seconds tomake this thing right, so they
either lose or they win.
So when you talk about splitsecond decision making-making,
right, we all talk about makingthe right decision.
(17:09):
Well, you don't know if it'sthe right decision.
The right, tells you, is theamount of time right.
We're trying to make the bestdecisions possible.
So when I coach whether it's pitcrew teams, drivers, athletes,
ceos, wall Street, all thosedifferent things and these guys
are high performers is theduration of response rate?
(17:30):
Wall Street's fast, obviously,nascar's fast.
Business is a little different.
Different sports are a littledifferent.
The frequency of eventsDifferent sports are a little
different.
The frequency of events, butreally in everything we do, is
what does your mental space looklike?
(17:50):
So when we talk about what isthe difference between reacting
and responding, so if we getbetter at knowing the difference
between the two, right Reactingis somebody comes into my house
, I've got two daughters, I'mgoing to react.
But if you say something to meand I have to respond to a
situation, I need that mentalspace right, and the more you do
(18:14):
it, the quicker it is to reallyhave the best decision possible
.
So when you talk about people inhigh pressure, high risk, high
decision places, it's really italmost looks like it slows down.
Like how are they able toexecute, to perform, to respond
(18:37):
like that?
And, by the way, fear is allover the place.
There is no such thing assomebody being fearless, but we
always hear, but in the face ofhow in God's name are they able
to do that?
That is mental performance.
Mental performance is verysimple.
(18:58):
It's very simple.
Mental performance isperformance equals potential
minus interferences.
So the more and more you get totake away and minimize
interferences which could beunconscious, what could be
impulsivity, a lot of thingsfrom the past.
If we're able to acknowledgethat and minimize that, the
(19:22):
equation shifts right.
I minimize interferences, nowthe potential we have starts to
go and then performance goes.
So all of that is an equationof awareness.
Like to know that if we canmake the unconscious conscious
and do that repetitively, webecome unconsciously conscious,
(19:43):
which sounds like flow, and that, literally, is just repetition.
That is mental performance.
That is significant training.
It doesn't happen on a Tuesday.
This is really the act ofintentionality at its best.
Can anybody do it?
Absolutely Listen.
(20:04):
I'm not Michael Jordan andnever will be, but can I be an
incredible coach who speaks well, who practices?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Of course, so why can't we all do this?
And the answer that we candiscover with bringing
consciousness to the unconscious.
(20:33):
So I've heard you mention thaton a few podcasts and that's
something that I would reallylove to explore a little more,
especially as we dig intopsychoanalysis, and really for
us to unlock our greatest levelof performance.
Using the formula potentialminus interferences that
interferences component, I wouldenvision we're often holding on
(20:59):
to things that we don't evenknow that we're holding on to,
that are holding us back, andthose things that we don't even
know we're holding on to, thatare holding us back.
And those things that we don'teven know we're holding on to
isn't something that we justpicked up yesterday.
It's something that probablygoes all the way back to
childhood, that has influencedour being.
That may not allow us to see acertain possibility that is up
(21:23):
for the grabbing, but because ofsome sort of conditioning that
we likely are not aware of atthe moment, we're stopping
ourselves.
So what are the types of thingsthat you discover that we would
likely discover in ourselveswhen we bring the unconscious to
(21:44):
conscious?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Well, a big word you just used is conditioned.
We're all conditioned, right,you know, we're pre-verbal,
we're verbal.
We know emotions evolve beforeintellect, right, I'm wet, I'm
hungry.
This is all.
psychoanalytic One is, you know,and I want to bring a big word
(22:08):
into this conversation calledcuriosity, yep, so we know that
behavior changes before feelings, right, because we know that
emotion started, then theintellect comes.
So now we see things, we keeprepeating things, we keep saying
things that no longer serve usany longer.
(22:29):
Right, our words do matterbecause it is a reflection of
the internals.
So now you know, the situationmay look different, but the
experience is the same.
It's fear of this limits mefrom this.
So get curious, say, wait asecond, the situation looks
different, but the outcome isthe same.
(22:51):
It keeps being the same.
What is holding me back?
Why do I keep repeating thesethings, even though
intellectually I know what Ineed to do, but I keep repeating
these same patterns.
That is conditioning, that isprogramming.
We know now through neuroscience, through neuroplasticity and
all these beautiful words, wecan actually reprogram the way
(23:14):
we behave.
We often can't reprogram theway we feel.
I can't control how Ryan feels,but I sure as hell can have
impact on how he behaves.
So now, when I'm happy, I'mgoing to do this.
It doesn't work that way.
When I'm no longer sad, I'mgoing to do this.
(23:35):
It doesn't work that way If westart to really be conscious of
changing our behavior.
I'll give you an example.
So I was a lacrosse guy rightRecruited to play lacrosse.
I had an identical twin brotherwent to Penn with me.
I blew my knees out once and Iblew them out again.
So now I'm a I'm a studentathlete.
Going to upenn, I blow my kneesout once I'm a little slower
(23:59):
than I do it again.
So now everybody's going toplay lacrosse.
I am no longer an athlete.
I've always been told I'm anathlete, I'm a student athlete I
am now.
I now feel less than I am, notwho I am anymore.
So now I go to Wall Street.
It's 15 years of feelinginadequate.
I never had the opportunity forpeople to see what I'm all
(24:21):
about.
So that feeling of rage, ofanger, of inadequacy is starting
to show up other places,unconsciously.
So now I want to be the biggestguy on the trading desk.
I don't care about the money, Iwant to show everybody how big
I am.
So now this past experience isnow showing itself in the
(24:42):
present.
I am completely unaware of it.
Well, this is normal, but it'snot.
I am not dealing something fromthe past.
Well, this is normal, but it'snot.
I am not dealing something fromthe past.
So I am not conscious of whatis going on here, until it gets
to a point where wait a second,this is not working Right.
Somehow I'm surviving, but I'mdefinitely there is, there is an
(25:04):
anchor holding me back.
I have to go back andunderstand what is going on here
, because somethingunconsciously in my behavior is
affecting my results.
So now, as you go back,acknowledge, explore, get
curious, say, wait a second, noway You're telling me that this
(25:28):
18-year-old kid is showing upwhen I'm 32 years old, that
hasn't healed yet.
How is that even possible?
Possible, very possible.
So for me it was like I can'tsay I don't feel inadequate.
Now I can't say I.
Through repetition andawareness, those feelings are
(25:54):
tied to a new behavior which nowhas a different experience,
which then is a differentcircuitry in the brain.
So I had to become extremelyconscious.
Like you know what, ryan, thisis no longer working for me.
This repetition, this cycle,excuse me, it's not serving me
anymore.
(26:14):
It's trying to defend me andtake care of me, but it's no
longer so.
Now, when I become conscious,I'm like you know what?
Now I have to change this.
Now I have to tie new behaviorsbecause I'm not happy.
I can't say when I'm happy,I'll do this because I don't
know when that's going to happen.
So I have to make the changenow, behaviorally, in order to
(26:37):
have different experiences andcause different circuitry in my
brain.
So now, over repetition, mydefault now is that when I'm
angry, when I have rage, when Ifeel disappointed, I don't go
back and cut it all circuitry.
I've really throughconditioning a positive side of
that and training, I can.
(27:00):
Now my default is what can wedo?
Man as opposed to?
I can't believe this ishappening to me.
It's how do I get that?
That's a shift.
Now, am I the only person inthe universe that happened to?
Of course not.
We all have this ability to getbetter.
It's really the art of.
(27:21):
We talked about intentionality,we talked about being curious,
we talked about reframing thesituation, but it's really like
who the hell do you want to feedyourself?
Do you want to feed the wolf orthe dog?
What words are we using?
Which way?
You know, when we talk aboutfeedback, there's feed forward
also.
You know what?
(27:42):
I'm not where I want to be yet.
So what do I need to do now?
This situation sucked, I got it.
Do we want to ruminate in thepast?
Do we want to ruminate in theloss, because ruminating, by the
way, is a behavior or do youwant to say you know what?
Man, that really sucked.
I acknowledge that, but whatcan I do better next time?
(28:03):
What do I need to do to makethis experience look different?
That two seconds is a massiveshift, right, and that's mindset
.
So all these things we talkabout are so true and you really
get to experience them when youput them into practice and
(28:26):
practice, and practice, and andpractice and practice, because
we're never there yet.
But I don't think there'sanything wrong with that.
I think it's very rewarding toknow that I'm going to keep
going.
I'm 52 years old.
I started my own coachingcompany last year.
Even though I've coached forseven years, I'm not even done
yet.
I have no idea where this goes,but I'm super excited to see
(28:51):
where it does Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
How does someone that's curious now take action
on this about?
I want to take inventory rightnow and go find out what might I
be holding on to that isn'tserving me.
(29:17):
How can we take action on that,evan, and inventory and be
brutally honest with ourselvesas to what may be stopping us
right now.
What may be stopping us rightnow?
Discipline is a key componentof this podcast and a key thing
(29:42):
that we preach.
We view discipline as the fuelto help you create the life that
you ultimately desire, anddiscipline being the fuel that
gets your habits and systems incheck so that you can actually
accomplish your goals.
If you're looking to level up in2025, I am happy to be a part
of that and encourage you tojoin the Unshakeable Discipline
(30:04):
Mastermind Group.
This has been my baby for acouple years and we're finally
launching it here in 2025.
The group consists of aself-paced course that teaches
you how to form core habits andmindset that will allow you to
accomplish your goals.
A daily accountability channelto keep you on track, motivated
(30:26):
and in alignment with ourmembers, and weekly mastermind
sessions where you're going tolearn from either myself or a
suite of renowned guests manywho have been on the podcast
that are going to share piecesof their winning playbooks
directly with you.
I've learned that being a partof groups over the years has
(30:48):
helped propel me to so many newlevels in life.
If you want to go fast, go alone.
If you want to go far, then gotogether, and it's my wish that
the Unshakable Crew is a choicethat makes sense for you in 2025
.
We are growing up to 100members this year and have
(31:12):
limited time founding memberpricing for 12 more folks before
we permanently increase pricingto $97 a month.
Be a part of the adventure thatwe're creating with our members
.
If you're somebody that cravesdiscipline, seeks it or wants it
(31:36):
this year, and you're reallycommitted to making lasting
changes in your life and beingaround others that are committed
to winning and serving theworld and sharing what they
learn with others so that wemake this world a better place,
and sharing what they learn withothers so that we make this
world a better place, then jointhe Unshakeable crew.
Go to unshakabledisciplinecomand you can sign up.
(31:58):
It is also in the show notesUnshakeable shake, as in
milkshake,unshakabledisciplinecom, and
we're excited to have you in2025.
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Such a powerful question and actually it's a
question actually.
So we know, when we go into aninterview, right, we're sitting
in an interview and the personasking the questions usually is
in the seat of influence, right,the interviewer, right, but
ironically, self-exploratoryquestions.
(32:34):
What is this all about?
Why do I keep repeating thesethings?
Verbal, as we say it, verbally,not thinking it, but verbal.
When we ask self-exploratoryquestions, it puts us, the
person in the seat of influence,so asking why do I keep doing
that?
What is going on here?
Why do I feel so impulsivedoing this?
(33:01):
Why am I so angry?
Now, oftentimes there'ssomething called resistance,
right.
When we talk aboutpsychological theory, right,
it's like a vault in the backthat you just can't get into.
When we ask self-exploratoryquestions, it starts to
stimulate the unconscious andthe beauty about these questions
.
You don't have to answer them.
We want to find the answer,right, because we want to find
the cure, like this is going tohelp me.
(33:23):
But as we take a walk in nature, like why am I doing this?
Let it sit, let it stimulateyour unconscious.
Maybe two days it pops out,maybe in a dream it comes out.
But we don't have to answer.
We have to ask.
The art of asking is veryconscious, because when we try
(33:44):
to force an answer, it's usuallynot the right answer.
Let it sit.
But you know, we talk aboutmindfulness and all these things
when you sit down and askyourself, like what am I doing
here?
That's why the art of writingright, journaling is so
important.
Right, it's a consciousness.
Try to find something whereyou're asking yourself questions
(34:11):
and giving yourself space,unconsciously, to figure it out.
That is the greatest act ofmindfulness.
You know, when we sit there andwe meditate, whatever you do,
be quiet, just sit for a littlebit.
But really, the art of askingyourself questions is so
(34:34):
powerful.
As a coach, I'm not in anyadvice business.
My business is to try toexplore and uncover what those
interferences are in order toleverage potential and boost
performance.
So, the more we're able youknow we call it addition by
(34:56):
subtraction.
If I could take out some of thestuff that's holding us back,
imagine what we can do.
There are anchors in life.
We all have them.
We all have these resistances.
We all have this conditioning.
Give yourself time to exploreit.
I'm not saying stay scubadiving for the rest of your life
(35:19):
.
It could be a little snorkeling.
But the difference betweencoaching and therapy is we marry
the why and the how as we thinkabout this, like why am I doing
this?
Our job as coaches is to startimplementing new behaviors.
So one of the things I do, youknow, usually with clients and
(35:39):
my old boss used to be like whyare we doing this again?
I said let's jump into the coldshower.
People are like cold shower,why are we taking a cold shower?
I don't want to do that.
I know you don't want to dothat, but I want to put you in a
place where you now are doingsomething you don't want to do,
even though we know howbeneficial it is, but you're
doing it anyway.
That's a behavior shift.
(35:59):
Who the hell wants to take thecold shit?
We know dopamine six hours yourbrain.
It's just incredible.
I've done it for 15 years.
I still hate it, but for meit's one of those things like
you know what, if I could dothis, what else am I capable of
doing?
(36:20):
It's a behavior shift.
Once you start to believe, itlike, wait a second, I can do
that, I can do that.
It builds evidence.
So now, if we're consistentwith that evidence, that builds
confidence and now it's almostlike all right, we're on the
(36:43):
right track here.
Not linear, right, things aregoing to come our way right.
We can't time the deliverytruck.
That has obstacles, hurdles andchallenges, but we sure as hell
can get up footing fast.
We know what exit to get off of.
We build that confidence right.
(37:03):
So when we always thinkpositive, I think having a
positive outlook and having apositive attitude is important.
But positive psychologysometimes gets a bad rap, and
the reason why is it can betoxic, because you know what we
do live in reality.
You know, ryan, I want the bestfor you but I can't guarantee
that the delivery truck's notgoing to come.
(37:25):
But I want to make sure thatyou can get your footing as fast
as possible.
But I want to make sure thatyou can get your footing as fast
as possible, that we don't haveto react.
We're able to respond.
We can feel the fear of this,of that.
You take your breath, we getsettled in and then we go To me.
(37:46):
that's incredible.
So in moments and those areopportunistic moments sometimes
yeah, no-transcript.
So how people thrive in thoseenvironments, that is mental
(38:06):
performance.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Are there any as it relates to the questions, one
that I often ruminate on is whatmakes this thought that I'm
having true.
Is what makes this thought?
that I'm having true or why am I?
What's driving this thought?
(38:30):
And sit with it for a while,and then sometimes I'll keep
asking why and why and why somany times, to where you can
then eventually discover theroot cause.
It's actually something that wedo a lot in manufacturing.
Why did we blow a hole?
Well, we didn't have the rootcause.
It's actually something that wedo a lot in manufacturing.
Why did we blow a hole?
Well, we didn't have the righttool.
Why didn't we have the righttool?
(38:51):
Well, there was no process forwhere the tool should go.
And when we do that with ourlives sometimes just even asking
why and why and why and whyyou'll boil down to the root of
what's driving a thought, abelief, and then you can examine
(39:14):
it and rewire it.
I mentioned that example andwhat I gathered from you.
It occurs to me that,regardless of if we are, if we
deem ourselves as highperformance experts right now,
or we're jumping on the trainwhere this journey is new to us,
constant self-inquiry andexploration is critical for
(39:43):
everybody, regardless of whatstage you're at.
Are there some additionalcornerstone questions or
fundamental questions that, hey,if it was these one to two that
everybody should constantlyexplore, it's these ones and I
know it's not a one size fitsall, but based off of what you
(40:05):
found that helps peopleunderstand the most about
themselves.
What would those be?
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Well, you know, there's some great questions out
there, but the most importantthing is when we react, it's
impulsive, it's a craving, right, it's just seconds really,
whether it's alcohol, whetherit's feeling defensive and
reacting, we're talking likeless than seconds.
(40:33):
So why is it important to askquestions?
So one of the greatestquestions I ask what am I trying
to accomplish here?
Right, that in the moment, sayyou know, what am I trying to
accomplish here?
Right, that in the moment, sayyou know, what am I trying to
accomplish?
What's my mission?
Right, that's an easy question.
But when you get in that moment,is this good, is this good for
me or bad for me?
It's such a crazy question,right?
(40:55):
Well, it's bad, all right, yougive a little space, we won't do
what we're about to do.
Right, the odds of you reactingis mitigated.
I can't guarantee that's notgoing to happen.
Obviously I'm not foolish, buthaving that second.
So the reason questions are sopowerful is that we're
(41:17):
recognizing that something'sgoing on.
We're no longer an autopilotgoing on, we're no longer an
autopilot.
So whatever question resonateswith you like for me it's
usually is this helping orhurting me?
The simple act of asking.
(41:41):
That puts space between how Ifeel and what I'm about to do.
It makes me more conscious,right?
So when you, by the way, yourexample, why am I using this
tool?
When we go practically down,why this, then why am I doing
that?
What does this mean to me?
Those are brilliant, right, and, like I said, we may not know
the answer.
But when you start to be reallygo down the road of
(42:04):
self-exploration, one, it's veryscary, right.
Sometimes we are not ready forthe answer, and that's all right
.
It may not come up when youwant it, but that's, you know,
the self-exploration, theself-exploratory questions, the
(42:25):
questions we ask ourselves, isjust the act of consciousness,
because, you know, I do believewe all want to get better.
Some of us, unconsciously,don't think we deserve to get
better, right?
So when you have somebody like,of course, I want to be
successful, unconsciously theydon't, right, because there's a
(42:47):
loyalty to somebody in theirpast, it's, it's.
You know what.
It sounds crazy, but it's true.
So, whatever we're trying toachieve, what we're trying to
accomplish, if all of a suddenthere's hurdles and obstacles in
your way, ask why am I feelingthis way and how am I feeling,
(43:12):
and why you start to do that?
And this doesn't happen everyday, everything.
But you start to really buildthat awareness muscle and you
attach a behavior to that wherethat feeling, an old feeling,
has a new behavior.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
It's interesting, absolutely.
And another thing that ispresent for me right now.
What we're talking about is howdo we influence our thought
patterns, which then couldtrigger our beliefs or the
actions we take.
But another thing that Ibelieve this plays into is what
(43:58):
do we allow ourselves to hear,to hear and going into and
here's an example of one thatI've worked on rewiring that,
and what I want what I'd likefor you to do is think about
what's a thought or what'ssomething that you weren't able
(44:19):
to hear before, or somethingthat maybe people that you've
helped weren't able to hearbefore, and talk through that
process of then being able toactually hear something
different.
So, with my mom I love my mom todeath.
I was just talking about her ona podcast two days ago with a
(44:43):
spiritual psychologist a podcasttwo days ago with a spiritual
psychologist and I remember thatas a kid and into my teenage
years that if it's cold out, asan example, my mom would always
say did you bring your jacket,did you bring your gloves?
And it used to frustrate me somuch loves, and it used to
(45:09):
frustrate me so much becausewhat I heard is I don't trust
you to be an adult and to beindependent and you're not
capable of making decisions.
Because I thought back to veryearly years when there were some
people that told me I couldn'tdo things or that I didn't have
the ability to accomplishsomething.
So every time my mom would saysomething like that, I would get
(45:32):
upset and I wasn't allowingmyself to hear what I hear now,
because now, being 32, Irecognize that my mom will still
to this day and for the rest ofmy life.
If it's cold out, did you bringyour jacket, ryan?
Did you leave water running sothe pipes don't freeze over and
burst?
What I hear now is it's justsomeone that's loving me right
(45:56):
now.
It's just somebody that lovesme and is looking out for me.
It's interesting and that tooka lot of practice and a lot of
work.
That it wasn't just I made thatdecision and then the next time
she called me and asked meabout that, that, oh, it's
(46:17):
someone that loves me yeah, butnow I don't even think twice
about oh, it's someone thatdoesn't trust me.
So, as I bring that up, isthere anything that has rang
true for you with not being ableto hear a certain message?
And now you're able to?
(46:38):
And what did that look like,because I believe that all plays
into mental performance.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
It's a great question .
Trying to shift through.
You know, it's interesting.
My mother raised, so I have asingle.
I was raised by a single mother.
Excuse me, let me script more.
So I have an identical twinbrother and an older brother who
was handicapped, passed away acouple years ago, and I was
raised by a single mom, two jobsand my father wasn't around
(47:15):
much and but he'd been marriedfive times.
I have seven brothers andsisters, three from my mom,
there's four of us, I mean justranging from 65 to 31.
And he was a crack.
He was a crackhead.
He had been successful,homeless, all these things.
So you know, growing up wedidn't have a father figure ring
, anything like that.
And you know, being analcoholic and a drug addict and
(47:39):
things like that, you know Ialways thought drug addicts and
alcoholics were mean, nasty,violent, and he was none of
those.
So I always felt bad for himand he was never in my life
really, maybe up until I was 13,I'd seen him, but after that it
was nothing.
Never saw us play the cross orplay soccer or anything like
that.
But it's ironic.
(48:00):
As life continued, I startedmimicking him, went to an Ivy
League school, had some greatfriendships.
All of a sudden, the drinkingstarts to pick up.
What the fuck is that aboutMarriage?
What just happened?
All these things I'm like waita second man.
(48:23):
How in God's name am Ifollowing this guy?
He's had no conscious impact onmy life, but it's one of those
things where I didn't know thatI was literally looking at a car
(48:43):
crash and I was about to gointo it.
It's man I didn't think had anyimpact on me, but the yearning
for a father figure in my life,the yearning for to not be
better than him Because I didn'twant to show him up it sounds
nuts, but all of a sudden I wastrying to be.
(49:05):
You know, it's such aninteresting thing.
I was trying to be loyal to him, like I didn't want to be
better than him.
I want to do what he did.
How nuts is that?
And it literally took me until Iwas, I think, your age to say
wait a second.
And it literally took me untilI was, I think, your age to say
(49:28):
wait a second.
How in God's name am I going toget in this car and I can see
the car crash.
I have this school, I'm with agreat firm, I'm at a hedge fund.
Things are going well and I'mabout to throw this all away.
For what?
So you know, it's your story,it's a different side of it, but
I'm like how this makes nosense to me.
(49:51):
So you know, when we talk aboutpeople in general, sometimes
this stuff doesn't make anysense.
And there is this tie, thisunconscious tie, this well,
obviously, ryan put a jacket on.
That shouldn't really affectyour feelings.
It's your mother.
(50:12):
She don't want you to be cold,but you're taking, like you
don't trust me.
Like, well, that doesn't makeany sense.
She's just telling you to put acoat on.
But this is your experience.
This is how you feel.
This is how you're triggered.
Like I tell this to people, likeare you kidding me?
I said I swear to God it's atrue story.
Like, but I don't see that.
(50:33):
But you're not me, you're notliving my experience.
Like I'm not living yourexperience.
And once we are able to put aspotlight and see what it is,
you're like, wow.
And if I can take this a stepfurther, this is why I got into
this business, because how, inGod's name, can a man who did
(50:55):
shit for me, nothing, have sucha profound impact on my behavior
, how I had an incredible motherwhy you start going down that
rabbit hole.
You start to become a studentof how you think, how you behave
(51:18):
and, to be quite honest, that'show I got into coaching.
I'm like how in God's name isthis happening to me?
This man never saw.
He went to the wrong school tosee his play across.
He went to Penn State insteadof UPenn.
He had no idea we went toschool.
Why is there such a profoundinfluence on my behavior?
(51:41):
So we have to work throughthese things.
Right, you know, like there's apossibility, like we're acting
a certain way because of this.
So why not ask questions, getmore curious and figure out?
(52:02):
We don't have to stay there thewhole time.
But like, is there apossibility that I'm doing these
things unconsciously?
And if the answer is yes, letme tell you.
If you think you're the problem, you sure as hell can be part
(52:23):
of the solution.
That's right.
And when you're able to moveand trust yourself, it's one of
the most profound feelings ever.
Nobody's perfect Nobody.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
I know that for a fact, and a lot of this is
coming back to exploringcuriosity and that really being
a key component in mentalperformance.
Talk through, since you have atalk coming up about this,
(52:59):
what's the relationship betweencuriosity and mental performance
, as we are learning all abouthow to cultivate more mental
performance in this discussion.
How do those two feed eachother?
Speaker 1 (53:19):
Well, thank you for the segue, by the way.
So I'm doing a TEDx talk,hopefully in the next couple of
months.
We're trying to find the venuenow about curiosity and mental
performance.
So when we think aboutcuriosity right, curiosity in
its essence is informationseeking.
That's what it means.
So how does it affect mentalperformance and how does it
(53:40):
excuse me, play into mentalperformance?
Well, let's just think about it.
If I said to you, I'm curious tosee if we start this company,
if we start this practice, whatcould it look like?
You'd be like, I don't know,let's go see, as opposed to
let's go start this.
Well, you know we could fail,we may not win.
(54:00):
This may take longer than wethink, but if you're curious, it
almost goes around thatresistance of well, my father
failed.
I've learned this that youdon't take risks, because if you
(54:21):
take risks, bad things happen.
But if you get curious and sayyou know what, let me see, the
intensity of the fear of dot dotdot is lessened Because I'm
interested.
That alone opens up so manydifferent paths for you to take,
(54:41):
because you know what?
We may be wrong.
Well, yeah, I'm just curiousCourtesy of what happens.
And so now, as you forge ahead.
That opens doors ofpossibilities Because, hey,
listen, by the way, we may bewrong.
All right, let's see what itlooks like, let's gather
(55:04):
information.
So, as we gather information,you know what.
That didn't work.
However, I think this couldwork, and now the way we wire
our brain is so materiallydifferent.
Ryan, let's go do this.
Well, you know, I'm justcurious.
Worst case scenario we fail.
All right, I'll give.
I don't know, ev, what happensif it fails?
(55:47):
Well, it may fail.
Let's get curious and see whathappens.
It is one of those things andI'm sure I mean we've obviously
done research on this, but itgoes back to the words we use
and how we reframe things andhow we choose to look at things.
Like, I started M1.
(56:09):
I know nothing about socialmedia, never been on a podcast
before last year, anything.
So my wife said what do youthink?
I said I have no idea.
I said I'm going to give it ago.
She goes what's the worst casescenario?
That I don't do it?
Right, but I'm curious to see.
I'm curious to learn.
I know it's not linear, but Iknow I'm going to learn a lot.
(56:32):
What a great mindset.
It's not void of sailing, it'snot, but it gives you better
probabilities of success.
You know why?
Because you're actually goingto go and try to do it.
Because if you don't try to doit, the probability of success
(56:55):
is zero.
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
It's incredible.
One of my favorite books is theFour Agreements by Don Miguel
Ruiz, and in there it talksabout the first agreement really
being the power of your wordand being your word A component
of performance is absolutelypowerful language, because
(57:27):
language is the creator of allthings.
Language is what created M1.
Language is what created thispodcast.
Language, both spoken word andunspoken word, can be the
difference maker between whatenables us to take action or sit
on the sidelines and believethat we can't do whatever it is
(57:50):
that we absolutely can do.
What are some words or phrasesthat you believe we should
absolutely eliminate from ourbeing, because they ultimately
stop us or hold us back versuspush us forward?
(58:13):
Let me, let me, let me, let me.
Can I twist that a little bit?
Speaker 1 (58:19):
How about?
I'm going to go.
Instead of that, I'm going togo the other way.
So these are things that weshould be saying to ourselves.
These are things that what weknow, the can'ts, I'm not
capable, I'm not ready.
When I have this, I'll do this.
When I feel this way, I'llbehave this way, but we know
that let's switch it right,because we want to start
(58:41):
thinking.
We want to start feedingourselves.
Well, I.
Let's switch it right Becausewe want to start thinking.
We want to start feedingourselves.
Well, I'm not there yet.
I'm not there yet.
I'll get there.
Yet how about this one, nike,just do it.
People think the biggest wordin that three-word slogan is do.
But it's not, it's just Right,do it is.
(59:04):
Everybody knows it.
Just do it.
Give.
It's not, it's just Right, doit.
As everybody knows it.
Just do it.
Give it a go.
That word just is massive.
The words we use, right, becausewe know the brain doesn't know
can and can't.
We've heard this since we'relike little babies.
Right, don't say can, itdoesn't know the difference,
yada, yada, yada.
But let's start feedingourselves.
(59:26):
Well, this is extremelychallenging.
What else am I capable oftelling people Right?
All of a sudden, like you know,unfortunately in my life right
now, my dog's extremely sick, mymother has cancer and I feel
extremely overwhelmed.
Okay, alright, ev, you'reentitled to feel the way you
(59:49):
feel.
But what do we need to do today?
All right, I can't shake offthe sadness, I can't shake off
the worry, but what do I need todo?
Excuse me, what do I need to dotoday in order to keep me going
in the right direction?
It's these things Not like ohman, this sucks, no, shit sucks.
(01:00:13):
What do I need to be doing?
What words do I need to use tokeep me moving.
I am not void of feeling sad.
I am not void of feelingwhatever I want to feel, but it
doesn't help me if thosefeelings get onto the field and
(01:00:33):
I'm stagnant.
I'm allowed to feel whateverthe hell I want.
I'm allowed to grieve, I'mallowed to feel sad.
I'm allowed to have my moment.
But what do I need to do?
Like, those are big moments,right?
(01:00:56):
So it is the words we use.
I can't believe this ishappening to me.
It is All right.
What do I want to do with it?
How can I?
You know, it's not alwaysgetting better.
But what do I need to do tokeep moving forward?
Right, because that does buildresilience, it does build
empathy, it does buildcompassion, but it really is a
(01:01:18):
mirror.
Like you know what man?
I'm allowed to feel, how I wantto feel, but I also have the
ability, the courage, thestrength, the fortitude, the
resilience, the perseverance tokeep going.
That's important, but it'simportant to feel it.
I feel very sad, I feel verynervous, but I need to get my
(01:01:40):
clarity.
I need to share it with peoplewho I love and respect.
This is how I'm feeling rightnow and have my moment, but I
need to feed myself well.
Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
I appreciate you sharing that.
It's okay to feel and when wethink about high performance, I
believe it can often create thismisconception that the highest
performers are always inelevated states and, while
(01:02:13):
there's some validity to thatassumption that, hey, maybe it's
not always in an elevated state, but they're not going to allow
themselves to be drugged down,but they're not going to allow
themselves to be drugged downand they might be in an elevated
state, or rather, they might bedoing amazing things, but
(01:02:36):
they're still human and it'sokay to feel sad.
Because I believe there's alsothis thought that, okay, once
you commit to this lifestyle andyou do all these things that
Evan's talking about, thatyou're going to be a robot and
you're always going to be on topof the world, and that's just
not the case and it's okay tonot always feel that way.
(01:02:58):
So I appreciate that youbrought some light to that.
Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
I appreciate that you brought some light to that.
You have to give yourselfpermission to feel and actually
having the ability to do that.
We talk about these perceivednegative emotions rage, anger,
frustration, embarrassment beingjudged.
We have the ability to use theintensity of those emotions to
(01:03:24):
actually propel us forward.
Right, emotions have energy.
Right, we have energy.
How do we use that intensity topropel us forward, to give us
better clarity, to get us inthat quote-unquote elevated
(01:03:48):
state, like you know, for me,like my mother used to call it,
we played lacrosse and soccerwith what she called controlled
rage, controlled anger, right,like one of the greatest places
to take it out on the field.
But it was controlled.
It was a great healthy outcome.
It was so.
How do we use these emotionsthat just died?
(01:04:10):
How do we use them to ourbenefit?
You have to give yourself thatpermission to feel.
We're human beings.
We're going to feel sad, we'regoing to feel joy, we're going
to feel anger, we're going tofeel happiness.
It's a feeling.
(01:04:32):
Feel the Roy G Bibbs or therainbow of these emotions.
But know one thing though wereally have the opportunity and
the power to choose how we wantto behave.
That's right.
Again and again and again,that's the best part you can
(01:04:56):
literally let go of the world.
We don't have to playtug-of-war with these emotions.
They are what they are.
I can't control them, but wecan definitely choose how we
want to behave, and that reallycreates different experiences
and new circuits in the brain,and that's an incredible thing.
Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
I believe we could sum up a lot of what we're
talking about into one sentencethat we all possess the power to
create more than we could everbelieve possible.
More than we could ever believepossible.
And, if I were to throw onemore in there, that we also
(01:05:32):
possess all of the ability rightnow to explore and understand
the answers to what it is thatreally drives us, and we can
also manipulate that to the waythat we envision serving us best
.
Evan, this has been aphenomenal conversation.
(01:05:54):
Our closing tradition on thepodcast is a rapid fire session
and the way this works is,envision that you and I are
going to lunch at a really coolspot up in New York and we're
going up three elevator floors.
So as we go up each floor,someone's going to get on the
(01:06:22):
elevator and they recognize you.
They're going to ask you onequestion.
The amount of time you have toanswer this question is the
amount of time it takes to go upone elevator floor.
All right, so this is one gem.
One step, one book.
So first person gets on.
Evan, what's one gem that youhave, whether it be a quote or a
(01:06:42):
mantra that you live your lifeby, that I can put in my back
pocket and perhaps live my lifeby as well.
Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Remember tomorrow.
Remember what you do todayaffects tomorrow.
Next one Remember tomorrow,like it matters.
Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
Haven't heard that one before?
Awesome.
Next person gets on.
That's the end.
Click.
Next person gets on Right.
Awesome, Next person gets on.
Next person gets on Evan.
What's?
Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
one step that I can take today to become more
mentally tough Be conscious ofyour breath.
When we're conscious ofbreathing, take four in, eight
out.
We manipulate our nervoussystem.
Breath is obviously extremelyimportant, but it's also an
incredible act of consciousness.
Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Last person, Evan.
What's one book that we canread in 2025 to bolster our
mindsets and become better,higher performers?
Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
I think Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl
when we talk about triggers andstimulus and space presence,
freedom, power, and then actionand response, it's one of the
greatest books I've ever read.
It's had the most profoundimpact on me Man's Search for
Meaning by Viktor Frankl.
Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
It's a the most profound impact on me Man's
search for meaning.
It's a phenomenal book.
Evan, this has been a blast andwe'll have everything, all of
your information linked in thenotes.
Folks, keep up with Evan andall of the amazing work that
he's doing with M1 PerformanceGroup.
Remember that we all possessthe power to create our greatest
(01:08:27):
lives.
We all possess the ability tobe high performers and when we
are highly conscious of theunconscious, we can really
explore and experience ourgreatest selves and win today.
Thanks so much.
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