September 1, 2025 • 58 mins
“Confidence isn’t something you’re born with—it’s a skill you can train.”
Do elite athletes ever doubt themselves? Absolutely—and what sets them apart isn’t the absence of negative thoughts, but how they respond. Dr. Cindra Kamphoff, founder of the Mentally Strong Institute and trusted coach for the Minnesota Vikings and USA Track and Field, shares powerful frameworks for building confidence, silencing the inner critic, and redefining what it means to win. This conversation blends science, personal stories—including her experience at the Boston Marathon bombing—and practical tools you can use to perform at your best.
Key Takeaways:
- True mental toughness comes from responding differently to negative thoughts, not avoiding them.
- Confidence is a skill that can be trained through frameworks like “Learn, Burn, and Return.”
- Redefining “winning” and practicing authenticity unlocks peak performance in sports, business, and life.
Thank you for tuning in! If you feel led, please subscribe & share the show to others who you believe would benefit from it.
Keep in touch below!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We might think that all elite athletes are 100%
confident all the time, butthat's actually not true, that
just they're human, just like weare.
And I love this acronym byDaniel Amen.
The acronym is AutomaticNegative Thoughts, or ANTS, and
I love just using that because Iwish I would have known this in
(00:20):
college that the thoughts thatI choose you know are the
thoughts I have in my mindaren't always the ones I choose,
but I get to choose if I'mgoing to listen to them or not.
And just like them, you know,just like we do, we have
automatic negative thoughts.
And I love this quote by JoeMontana.
You know, legendary quarterbackfor the 49ers, and he said
(00:41):
confidence is a very fragilething.
It is, it's like a thermometer.
And so nobody I've ever workedwith at the elite level has said
to me Cinder, I am a hundredpercent confident all the time
because it's not.
It's not true.
What I would say is what thebest do to build their
confidence is they do realizeit's a choice.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Do hard things help one person.
It's a choice.
Do hard things, help one person, Be good and do good.
Live a life of discipline andyou will always win.
You have all the tools that youneed to succeed.
Welcome to win today.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
My name is Ryan Cass and I amyour host.
(01:23):
My purpose in this world is tohelp push people further and
harder than they believepossible and become unshakable
in what matters most to them intheir lives.
Every week, you're going tolearn from either myself or a
renowned expert in their field,and we're going to unveil pieces
of our playbook to help you wintoday.
Please, if you love this show,subscribe and share it with
(01:44):
somebody that will benefit fromit.
Let's dig in.
If your dreams don't scare you,well then they aren't big
enough, and that's somethingthat our guest today embodies
better than anyone I know.
We have Dr Sindra Kampoff withus today, who has spent multiple
(02:06):
decades helping elite athletesand business leaders enhance
their mental edge through a fewof her ventures.
She is the founder of theMentally Strong Institute, where
she has worked with iconicteams such as the Minnesota
Vikings and the USA Track andField Team, and she is also a
bestselling author of multiplebooks, one that we'll talk about
(02:27):
today, which is Beyond Grit.
Cendra, welcome, it's an honorto have you.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Ryan, congratulations on the podcast.
It's incredible and I know thatyou know this, but this is
actually my favorite quote youjust started with is like if
your dreams don't scare you,they aren't big enough, because
I actually think we all needreally scary dreams to keep
going and moving towards.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I may or may not have found that doing some homework
on you and I saw that onLinkedIn and it's always a, it's
always my, my mission to honorthe guests and and do homework
is one way to do that.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So when, I saw that.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I loved seeing that.
Before we dig into a lot of the, what I really would love to
understand the why and when.
I have the opportunity to speakwith people that are in the
business of helping people inthe way that you do, in the
(03:26):
business of helping people inthe way that you do, in really
gaining a mental edge andunlocking high performance that
exists and resides within all ofus.
Yes, they didn't just wake upone day and come to this
decision that this is what Iwant to do.
This is my vocation.
There's usually somethingdeeper that is fueling that.
So how did we get to where weare today and what was the
(03:49):
catalyst or series of eventsthat ultimately put you to where
you are, working with the bestof the best and inspiring them
and fueling their minds?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Well, thank you for asking that question, ryan.
I think that my why and mypurpose is very deep.
It starts from when I was inhigh school and I grew up in
Iowa, and my senior year I ranthe fastest mile in the state of
Iowa and so, you know, had alot of success in high school
(04:19):
and I expected to get to thenext level and become an
All-American, which is the topin the country, and even an
Olympian.
But when I got to college,that's actually where I really
struggled with the mental game.
It was like everyone was justas fast as me.
I thought that the more I beatmyself up, the better I would do
.
But now I know that theresearch shows the opposite,
(04:42):
that compassion with yourself isactually the way to get ahead.
And I just constantly beatmyself up throughout my college
career and, as a result, youknow, wasn't even close to
becoming an All-American, almostwanted to quit, just like,
really struggled with my ownmental health, and that's where
I started learning aboutperformance in sports psychology
(05:03):
.
That's where I started learningabout performance and sports
psychology and I, you know, atthat time there wasn't any like
podcasts.
There wasn't any tangible booksthat you really could read.
It was kind of hard to findinformation and it was hard to
like distill the theory downinto really practical tools, and
so my book Beyond Grit is verypractical, it's easy to read.
I had a coach actually I workedwith a team today and the coach
(05:26):
said like it's the easiest bookI've ever read around mental
performance and like I was justhonored that she said that
because it's the book I wish Ihad, you know, when I was in
college.
So that's kind of like thefirst crucible moment that led
me just to study this field andget a PhD in it.
And then, about 12 years ago, Ihad another major crucible
(05:48):
moment.
So after I finished my PhD, Iwas a college professor at
Minnesota State and I stillteach there, but it was full
time college professor at thetime and and, honestly, wasn't
really getting out there muchwith my message or I felt like I
was playing small, you know,and really didn't have these big
courageous dreams.
(06:08):
Well, I did have big courageousdreams but I kept on like
getting my own way around themand just, you know, thinking
that I didn't have the skills orit wasn't something that I
could do.
In 2013, I was, I got back intorunning and was running several
marathons every year and ran theBoston Marathon and, as you
(06:29):
know, ryan, but as the listenersprobably know, what happened in
2013 is there was a bomb at themarathon and I could detail
what that was like.
I was basically a block awayand had just finished the race
and really was just excited tocelebrate because it was my
fastest marathon I had completedat that point and just felt
(06:53):
like I completely dominated therace from a mental, mental
perspective, right, I justreally didn't even want that
race to end.
It was just beautiful andamazing and um, but then you
know that after, obviously, thebomb happened and, honestly, I
didn't really think I was goingto get home to my two boys.
I didn't.
I didn't know if the next, youknow, the next day, if I'd even,
(07:15):
you know, was there potentiallya bomb in our hotel because we
were just right next to thefinish line, and so that whole
day, um, I just remember askingmyself some really huge
questions that day, like whatdifference do I make and why do
I do what I do?
And, you know, am I reallyplaying as big as I could be?
And after quite a bit ofreflection, you know, and
(07:38):
honestly, those were just thequestions that came through my
mind and I decided I was playingreally small and I wanted to
work with the Minnesota Vikings,I wanted to write a book, I
wanted to become a speaker, butall of that was really, really
scary.
And so after the marathon Ijust came back and every day
just tried to do something everyday.
That, honestly, was just alittle bit scary, and I think
(08:01):
that's ultimately what's allowedme now to, you know, work with
some of the top teams andathletes in the country and have
a robust team.
Um, we're at the mentallystrong Institute and we work
with leaders and executives andathletes and teams.
And I don't think if I wouldhave experienced those two
moments in my life like Ibelieve everything happens for
(08:22):
us, not to us.
And uh and that's a Byron Katiequote, you know I love her Like
I believe everything happensfor us, not to us.
And that's a Byron Katie quote,you know I love her.
But she says what if everythinghappens for you and not to you?
And I believe that.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Got this Byron Katie book right here and actually how
I came to discover Byron Katie?
Your story, Sindra, is makingme think a lot about my friend,
Chris Doris, who is a mentalperformance coach.
He had a dream that he wantedto work with golfers and he was
(08:54):
at Arizona State getting hismaster's in sports psychology
and he was having thisconversation with himself how
the hell am I going to be amental performance coach to a
bunch of golfers?
And he was scared.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Now.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I want to dive in a little bit more on what the
conversation was with yourself,but more so the action of you.
Get this whole new perspectiveshift about life through a
tragic event at the BostonMarathon 2013.
It's tough not to think aboutthat, even walking down Boylston
(09:32):
Street, having ran the marathonmultiple times, because you and
I know, and many runners know,that that marathon and those
final two turns on Hereford andBoylston are sacred, they're
iconic, and that happened.
Then this thought of workingwith the Vikings comes into play
(09:54):
.
Then the fear comes in.
What do some of these actionsthat scare you look like and
what are the conversations goingon in your mind and what are
some of the things that you'relearning along the way as you're
just stepping into this fear ofthe unknown?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
What a great question , I think that day, like those
were the questions that wentthrough my mind, you know, like
why am I still here?
What difference do I make?
Why do I do what I do?
And it was wild because, youknow, after a really great
marathon, you want to celebrateand none of us were celebrating.
We didn't even eat dinner, youknow like there was.
(10:35):
You know, like we're just kindof in survival mode for a while
as we kind of figured out whatwas going on.
And, um, I think, when I cameback, a few of the things I did
was I read a book called thePower of Purpose by Richard
Leiter.
He's a Minnesota author, I livein Minnesota, and so I wanted to
(10:55):
really figure out what mypurpose was.
And his research shows, when weunderstand our purpose, we live
up to seven to ten years longerand that it's really vital for
our health and wellness and ourwell-being.
And you know, I just decidedthat, like I, you know, I had
these big aspirations, but Ithink my head trash was telling
(11:17):
me things like, you know, youdidn't play football, you know.
Or sometimes when I would tellpeople my goals, like to work in
football or to work with a proteam.
You know they.
Sometimes when I would tellpeople my goals like to work in
football or to work with a proteam you know they'd be like,
yeah, good luck with that, youknow.
And so I had to really justlisten to my own inner voice and
I had to keep resetting,writing my goals down and saying
(11:38):
, no, this is what I'm going todo.
And I think so many times welisten to what other people say
instead what we really trulybelieve about ourselves.
And it's, you know, for me, mywork in football it started
actually about right after themarathon.
I started working with ourcollege football team, minnesota
State, and they startedimplementing the mental game and
(12:00):
then one of the players namedAdam Thielen, who maybe you know
of, introduced me to theVikings.
So it's like you never knowwhat can happen.
And now I work with.
You know it's the fall season,so last week I was working with
three top college football teamsjust all over the US and it's a
(12:26):
blast because I love the energyof football and I think it's
probably like you know, peopleare like who is this woman here?
You know I surprise them, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, I love hearing how people make their dreams
play out, because in hearing itand seeing it and feeling it,
because I'm feeling it come offyou, even though we're we're
connected via internet and I'min South Carolina and you're in
Minnesota, I can feel it thepassion, the energy, the
(12:58):
excitement.
All of that to me, and I and Iit's my wish that this serves
the exact same way for listenersis it shows that the
possibilities we have for ourlife are A endless yes B.
You can't spell possibilitieswithout a possible.
So these things, our dreams,are possible, and you're a
(13:22):
living example of that bowl andyou're a living example of that.
I would love to understand, aswe talk about, one of the top
qualities for the best of thebest and you've referenced this
study many times from angeladuckworth is that they they
possess grit grit beyond thenormal measure of humans.
(13:46):
They possess an upstandinglevel of grit which we can
cultivate for ourselves.
You have your book Beyond Gritand in there there are 10
practices that we can take todevelop our grit, muscle and
train and perform like theseelite athletes and business
leaders do.
So can you help us betterunderstand what are those core
(14:11):
practices and what does it looklike to help build our grit
muscles so that we can make ourdreams possible.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Absolutely, and so thank you so much for just
introducing Angela Duckworth'swork.
So grit is having passion andpurpose for your very long-term
goals, and we did a study lastyear where we interviewed
professional athletes about howthey developed their grit, and
it's interesting.
What we found is that theirgrit came from overcoming the
(14:41):
most difficult moment in theirlives right.
For them it was like a seizingending injury or a parent's
divorce or their own cancer, andso when we think about you know
the best of the best, and Ithink the examples in my life
are even ways that I've tried tobetter understand my passion
through these difficult moments,and I find that the best
(15:02):
athletes and leaders in theworld they make sure that they
are using those crucibles as away to move forward, and the way
that they're understanding thatadversity is key, and so grit
and difficult moments actuallyhelp us shape who we are today.
So the book is called BeyondGrit because that's the first
(15:24):
practice, and we know someresearch shows that grit has
been described as the number onepredictor of our performance,
which is we know it's like a toppredictor.
The second practice is purposeand understanding why you're
here, and I think about liketoday I was speaking to a team
and it's like I still thinkabout me in college and the
(15:45):
struggles I had, and it makes mereally stay passionate about my
work.
Number three is about masteringyour thoughts.
So this one is all about whatare you putting in your mind and
are you listening to theautomatic negative thoughts or
talking to yourself powerfully,which is key to get to your
goals.
Number four is aboutself-awareness, so this means
like understanding yourself.
(16:06):
What are your triggers, whatare your strengths?
Can you keep just payingattention to the ways that you
get in your own way andintervene with yourself?
Five is dominate thecontrollables.
This one is all about focusingon what we can control, because
it is so easy to get stuck inthe economy or your members of
(16:28):
your team or people saying thatyou can't do it.
Number six is about owning themoment, and we know peak
performance happens in thepresent moment, not in the past
or future.
Number seven is all aboutchoosing empowering emotions
like gratitude and confidence,and how can you cultivate that
in yourself?
And eight is about authenticity.
(16:50):
This one is also a practice, andthat just means like showing up
as your true self, which is apractice and, honestly, very
hard, particularly if you feeljudged.
Number nine is about living andletting go.
This is, ryan, the mostdifficult practice that I find
people struggle with, and I cantalk a little bit about that if
you'd like.
And then number 10 is aboutchoosing courage over comfort,
(17:11):
and this one is all about doingthings that are a little bit
scary to grow your muscle ofcourage and to help you reach
your big dreams, because it's soeasy to just give in and say
you know, that's not for me, butwe got to keep on resetting our
courage muscle.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I love those and I wish we could dive into all of
them, but what I was as you weresaying them, I was thinking in
my head as well.
Okay, what are the two to threethat people struggle with the
most?
Or as, as they hear it, it maycome across easier said than
done.
Hey, show up as your authenticself.
You and I can say that to eachother, and it'll land Now.
There was probably a point inour time, in our lives or I'm
(17:53):
certain, at least for myself,that you could have said that
and say what the heck does thateven mean?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
How am I even?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
supposed to know?
So can we focus on eight andnine and let's start with
authenticity?
And what is it that makes thatdifficult for people to grasp?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
So that's a great question.
So authenticity is the practiceof showing up as yourself, and
I think it starts withunderstanding like what are your
strengths when you most comealive?
What does that look like andfeel like when you are at your
best?
What does that look like andfeel like?
And you know the barriers toshowing up as our authentic self
(18:30):
is judgment of self, judgmentof others, and we know that the
more that you judge yourself,the more likely you judge others
.
Comparison is another barrierto authenticity, is another
barrier to authenticity, and Ithink what's powerful about that
is once you get clear on whatit is actually to be yourself,
(18:51):
right, what does that look like?
What's it feel like?
Can you practice showing up asyourself in moments that matter
most to you?
And about 10 years ago I wasactually at a Tony Robbins event
and I love going to Tony eventsbecause they really do fuel me
and help me reset.
(19:11):
And I was at this event andsomeone said to me Sindra, your
energy is your superpower.
And I was like it was thisstranger who said this to me and
I realized at that moment thatI had been kind of hiding my
energy, that maybe especiallybecause I work with a lot of,
like, male teams that maybe,maybe, like you know, the my
(19:33):
energy made me too feminine ortoo, I don't know, I'm not sure
what my perception was, but thatperson gave me permission to
really show up as more of myauthentic self with my energy,
and I'm so grateful for thatstranger.
I wish I would remember thatperson's name, because sometimes
(19:53):
you know, when we are in theseevents where we're truly
ourselves, like pay attention,what has led you to that, and I
think for me it was.
You know what has led you tothat, and I think for me it was.
You know, less trash talk andjust fully being present in the
moment.
And I think what's mostpowerful is ask people around
you.
You know what?
What does it look like to forme to be my true self?
(20:16):
And then you know, also, likepaying attention to that
judgment in your head andquieting, softening that inner
voice, reminding yourself likeyou're just enough, the way you
are.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Wow, is there a particular question that someone
should ask themselves so thatthey can confirm, or rather have
a better understanding of whatit even means to know that
they're showing up as theirauthentic self?
Now, I love what you mentionedabout we can go and ask a third
party hey, what does it looklike when I'm showing up as my
(20:49):
true self, so really gettingtheir experience of you?
But if we're going to lookinside so that I can tell you,
hey, sindra, when I'm myauthentic self, I am XYZ, is
that the question that someoneshould ask?
Is it as simple as when I am myauthentic self, I am dot dot
(21:11):
dot.
Or are there differentintrospective questions and
inventory we can take to betterunderstand that?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
question that comes to my mind is when you are, when
you feel most alive, what doesthat look like and feel like to
you?
You know, so when you're mostalive, how does that feel in
your body?
And then how would other peopledescribe you when you're most
alive?
Because I think when you'remost alive that shows your
authenticity.
And you know when you thinkabout the barriers.
We just conducted this nationalresearch study on confidence
that people can download atConfidenceStudycom and it was
(21:54):
fascinating.
One of the most startlingresults from the study that I
couldn't believe is that one intwo Gen Z-er.
So a Gen Z-er is the ages of 18to 29.
So one in two consistently orfrequently feel like they're not
enough.
So that means half of Gen Z-ersconsistently or frequently feel
(22:17):
like they're not enough.
And we even found that withyoung millennials, so the age
group just a little older than aGen Z-er.
And how does this connect toauthenticity?
Because when we're continuingto feel like we're not enough,
it's really difficult to show upas our authentic self.
But we know when you're yourauthentic self, you're free to
(22:38):
be yourself and that's you knowthere's less barriers to peak
performance when you're trulylike in the moment, like that's
ultimately what leads to flow,like being in the present, being
your authentic self, owningyour strengths.
And I think it's surprising tothink of, like one and two Gen
Zers Ryan, I have two boys thatare Gen Zers and it breaks my
(23:02):
heart right To think that, likewe have one and two Gen Zers and
you know that's our nextgeneration of our workforce we
have one and two Gen Zers andyou know that's our next
generation of our workforce.
And there you know, you have alot of Gen Zers.
All the people are listening intheir in your life.
So thinking about, like, whatare you doing to help them feel
like they're not enough, to helpthem build their confidence and
to help them show up as theirauthentic self?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
50% of Gen's ears.
Wow, I'm glad you introducedthe confidence study, because
that's certainly one thing I wasmost excited to speak with you
about, because I feel as ifconfidence and motivation are
two things that people ask abouta lot.
How do you generate confidence,how do you become so motivated?
(23:48):
And it would be so awesome ifboth of those things were.
You know, when you're gettingdressed in the morning, you put
on your shirt, you get yourcoffee, you get your keys and
you grab your motivation, yougrab your confidence and you put
it on you and you walk out thedoor.
Boom, like it feels as if thereare people in this world that
that's just how it works forthem.
(24:09):
A lot of people desire to behighly confident, to be highly
motivated.
Confidence diving deeper.
I have guesses as to why 50% ofGen Zers feel the way that they
do, but what does the researchshow and can you uncover a
(24:29):
little bit more about what'spreventing people from being
highly confident and that willunlock how we can become more
confident and build thatconfidence?
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, awesome question.
I would describe that thereason that one and two Gen Zers
feel like they're consistentlyor frequently not enough is
because of you know, you thinkabout a Gen Zer.
At least my kids went throughCOVID.
You know, at a really importanttime, like they're in eighth
grade, which is difficult, right, and then we have this phone in
(25:01):
our pockets that we've hadsince maybe we were in the
second or third grade and we areconstantly comparing ourselves
because of social media, and sothat's the reasons I would
describe that Gen Zers one andtwo consistently or frequently
feel like they're not enough.
And the problem is, when we lackconfidence, we start second
(25:24):
guessing ourselves.
We hold our opinions back,right, we don't show up as our
authentic self.
We might procrastinate.
We even found like one third ofworking Americans have quit a
job because it was activelyhurting their confidence, which
just kind of shows you likepeople are willing to quit a job
.
You know if it impacts theirconfidence.
And we found that confidenceisn't just an individual issue,
(25:49):
and what I mean by that is wetend to kind of think that you
know, it's our own thing to grow, but we found that confidence
is lower in the workplace.
You are less likely tovolunteer for things you
(26:12):
procrastinate, and it evenimpacts revenue and the bottom
line.
And so this is why it's reallyimportant for leaders to be
thinking about how you can growconfidence of others, why it's
important for leaders to thinkabout like what they do to kill
confidence, because it isimpacting, you know,
productivity, stress and anxiety, workplace culture, even a
(26:35):
decline in revenue, as Imentioned.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
What does that confidence building practice
look like for elite athletes andsome of the teams that you've
worked with?
Because when we're watching,let's say, the Vikings- on.
ESPN, which is coming up herevery soon.
I know Everybody on the team orit appears that everybody on
(26:59):
the team looks like they'rethey're ready to roll, they are
confident, as can be, and that'sthe external image.
Now, what we don't know fromthe couch is what's going on in
their mind.
Are they actually feeling likethey are going to make the big
(27:24):
completion, that they are goingto make the big block, or that
they're going to be able tointercept this pass and run it
back for a nice pick six?
There could be that, or therecould be holy smokes.
This guy is going to absolutelyrun me over and I'm not strong
enough.
We have a 330-pound D linemanthat's going to blow me over and
I'm praying for life, prayingfor life.
(27:46):
So what does that look likewith those folks?
So we can take a piece of theplaybook from the best of the
best.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
So that's a great question, ryan.
You know, I think that we mightthink that all elite athletes
are 100% confident all the time,but that's actually not true,
that just they're human, justlike we are.
And I love this acronym byDaniel Amen.
The acronym is automaticnegative thoughts or ants, and I
(28:14):
love just using that, because Iwish I would have known this in
college that the thoughts thatI choose, you know, are the
thoughts I have in my mindaren't always the ones I choose,
but I get to choose if I'mgoing to listen to them or not.
And just like them, you know,just like we do, we have
automatic negative thoughts.
And I love this quote by JoeMontana, you know, legendary
(28:36):
quarterback for the 49ers, andhe said confidence is a very
fragile thing.
It is, it's like a thermometer.
And so nobody I've ever workedwith at the elite level has said
to me Cinder, I am 100%confident all the time.
Because it's not true.
What I would say is what thebest do to build their
confidence is they do realizeit's a choice.
(28:57):
They do focus more on powerfulthoughts and powerful images,
and they are laying in bed atnight and they're thinking about
the things they're going to do.
They use imagery.
You know, we know, imagery isone of the most powerful mental
tools that you can use to buildconfidence, where you imagine
past successes or futuresuccesses.
(29:20):
And then I would also say, youknow and this is one of the
things we found in our researchstudy is that releasing judgment
and letting go of past mistakesis key to growing your
confidence.
And so you know, when I thinkabout my own experience that
I've just kind of shared withyou, like I was very hard on
(29:41):
myself in college, that's alsothe reason I didn't rebound and
bounce back, because you knowthat self-talk was so harsh and
critical and that gets in theway of, you know, building our
confidence and showing up as ourown authentic self.
So I would say, like one of themost important things you can
do is release your judgment, letgo of past mistakes, obviously
(30:03):
making sure you're alwaysprepared that's one of the ways
that builds confidence.
But celebrating youraccomplishments, reminding
yourself, you know, to be yourown inner coach instead of your
own inner critic, and that is apractice.
You know, most of our self-talkis like what we tolerate in
ourselves.
You know, and and and makingsure that you don't tolerate the
(30:29):
trash talk and the inner critictalk that is so human of you,
you know because it's so easyjust to give in and say, well,
that's not possible for me orthere's no way I can do that.
But I would say, like you knowthose, those inner critic
thoughts that you said, I wouldsay, yes, nfl players, elite
athletes, have those, but theydecide not to listen to them.
And they, you know, there'seven some really cool research
(30:50):
to show that, like pre-plannedself-talk, like planning what
you're going to say to yourselfin moments that matter most to
you, can help you gain the edgeand not listen to that.
You know that harsh innercritic.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
So pre-planned self-talk would that be?
Even, let's say, let's saywe're a baseball player, so I'm
a big, I'm a big Yankees fan.
So my pre-planned self-talkbefore I step in that batter's
box it could be something likeokay, I know, before the game
starts, that when I step in thatbatter's box, what I'm going to
tell myself is I'm a greathitter, I'm capable, and it
(31:26):
doesn't matter if it's a 98 milean hour fastball up and in or
82 mile an hour cutter, I canhit this ball and I can make
things happen for the team.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I love it.
Yes, and I would say, say thosethings as you're warming up and
before you go in the batter'sbox and then let your mind be
empty and free just to be in themoment.
But I think those powerfulself-talk is really important.
One example I can give ofmyself is when I got back into
(31:59):
running after my college career,I ran the Omaha Marathon and
this was a really specialmarathon to me because my
parents live in Omaha and myboys were there and my sister
was there and my husband wasthere.
You know, it was like and alsohad trained really hard for this
race Like at that point I wasrunning like 90 miles in a week,
you know.
So I was like ready to likecrush it.
(32:21):
And uh, I remember at one point, um, I was winning the race at
mile like 20, which is like Icouldn't believe I was winning a
marathon, you know.
And then the second place womanjust came on my tail, like so
fast.
It was like, ooh, you know.
And then we had the biggesthill we were trying to climb and
I remember my automaticnegative thoughts were just like
(32:42):
you know, you suck, sindra, doyou think you can win this race?
Like, come on.
You know better.
You know I just want to quit.
What in the world were youthinking that you were going to
do here?
You know you're running toofast and I had to.
You know, just listen to thatdoubt spiral, because it's so
easy to go down there so quick,especially when you're tired and
(33:04):
you're suffering eithermentally or physically.
And I had some statements I hadwritten out on my arm, actually,
ryan, you know.
So I had them in marker and Ithought a lot about like how am
I at my best?
So I had pre-planned them and Ithought what do I need to
remind myself in times I'mstruggling?
And you know what wordsrepresent my best?
(33:28):
And it was things like I knowI'm ready, I'm fit, I'm
confident, I have everything Ineed inside me.
You know I'm ready, I'mconfident, I have everything
inside, I need within me.
And I just started like sayingthose things to myself over and
over again.
And the amazing part aboutendurance events is like you can
see, you know how your thoughtsdirectly connect to your pace.
And I is like you can see, youknow how your thoughts directly
(33:49):
connect to your pace.
And I remember, like thatsecond place woman like on my
tail for about a half mile, butthen after that it was over, you
know, because my body followedmy mind and it was like I just
got this surge of energy.
I don't even remember severalof those final miles and when I
finished the race, like just Iwas bawling, you know, because
(34:13):
it was like I had overcome myown inner demon, something I
wish I would have done incollege.
But I did it in that momentright, and I guess you know, I
think for everyone who'slistening, it's like what do you
want to tell yourself?
And the powerful thing is youcan create your own self-image.
And even in the morning, I haveabout 30 statements I say to
(34:33):
myself every morning.
That really represents how do Iwant to keep growing, and one
of them is I'm passionate.
Another one is I'm the bestdamn keynote speaker you ever
heard.
Because that's the way I wantto keep growing is I want to
continue to like level up mypresence on stage, and so I
think that's what's cool is likeyou know, you never outperform
(34:55):
yourself image, and so you'vegot to keep on leveling up your
image of yourself to help youreach your goals.
So you could think about whatare the goals I'm going after,
what are some big, courageousgoals?
And then, what do I need tobelieve about myself to get to
those goals?
And that's what you have tokeep on telling yourself every
morning.
So you're intentionallyplanting in, you know, those
(35:15):
images around your own selfimage.
So you don't let your thoughtsgo to default, because it's not
always helpful when it goes todefault.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
I appreciate you bringing up the science and
research behind this, because Iwant people to understand that,
although even the words we speaksimple thing to say, simple
thing to understand, but thenhey, no, this isn't just
something that we're saying,that this is a good thing, no,
this is actually studied andproven that the words we speak,
(35:48):
spoken and unspoken, meaninginternal, outward and even
inward to ourselves, matter.
The words we speak matter.
I had a, as you know, about 24hours ago I was pacing through
the Leadville mountains, amazingPacing my lady to finish up the
(36:09):
Leadville 100 mile which is, asyou know and as many people
know, the we'll call it theBoston marathon of trail running
One of the most difficultcourses out there.
There's 12,000 plus feet ofelevation gain, the weather goes
from about 30 degrees to 80degrees, back to 30, all in the
course of the day, and it istreacherous.
(36:33):
It is tough.
One thing that I would ask herhow she's feeling.
The only response she's allowedto give is outstanding.
And even though she was verydeep in the pain cave and she's
walking with her poles and we'reboth freezing and it's two
(36:53):
o'clock in the morning, whatevertime it was, and her, her, her,
a plan went out the window.
That's fine.
We keep moving forward.
We find the next best thing, thenext we're being given an
opportunity, yeah, but the wordswe speak matter, because if you
let the other voice win, thatokay, maybe you're not actually
feeling outstanding, but oh, Ifeel like crap.
(37:14):
Well now, now you're going tomove a little bit slower, that
foot's going to feel a littlebit heavier.
You might not want to push alittle bit harder than than you
can, and that was inspiredactually by Jesse Itzler, who
I'm sure you're familiar with.
Jesse when he was wanting to runhis first ultra marathon.
He reached out to a Navy SEAL,chad Wright, who's another ultra
(37:39):
endurance athlete, and he saidChad, I want you to help me
train for my first ultramarathon.
You know, I can't make it pastthe 30 mile mark, no-transcript.
(38:12):
And Chad's this big, big oldcountry boy from Texas.
And anyways, at mile 30, whereJesse had told Chad this is my
wall, I can't make it past this.
How do you feel Outstanding?
Okay, now we've moved anotherfive miles.
How do you feel, jesse,outstanding?
(38:59):
Mile 50.
Oh, now we're 20 miles furtherthan we've ever ran.
How do situations where we mayfeel like we have zero control
or power, where we may feel likewe have zero controller power,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
I love that example and, you know, I think one of
the most important things toremember is that you can level
up your self-talk and most ofour thoughts are on default.
You know, what the researchshows is about 70% of what we
say to ourselves is moredisempowering.
It tends to be like a repeat ofwhat we say to ourselves is
(39:29):
more disempowering.
It tends to be like a repeat ofwhat we said yesterday.
And even you know our study onconfidence, you know, shows you
the importance of growing yourconfidence and you can.
You know, when you think aboutlike things that you can do, you
can take control of your ownconfidence.
It's a feeling, it's a decisionand it's a skill that you can
keep growing.
(39:50):
But also think about what you doto help other people grow
confidence, because you knowthere are things that you might
not even realize that you dothat impact confidence.
For example, one of the thingswe found in our research study
was that you know leaders, forexample, when they micromanage,
or when they provide a lack ofdirection, or when they don't
(40:12):
show empathy or understanding,and they can create a culture
where people can't take risks orshare concerns like those are
the things that they do.
That prevents confidence, right, but things that leaders can do
instead are setting achievablestretch goals.
But things that leaders can doinstead are setting achievable
stretch goals, delegating,recognizing achievements,
embracing failure, and those areall examples of things that you
(40:36):
can do.
You know our study we foundthat 63% of working Americans
would actually take a lowerpaying job to work with a leader
who actively builds theirconfidence.
So more than half the peoplewould take less money to work
with a leader that buildsconfidence.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Wow.
So if this is a call to actionfor everybody to focus on that
confidence muscle, both foryourself, but then for the teams
that you support, for theorganizations that you're a part
of, that's a staggeringpercentage.
(41:18):
Wow, 63% 63%.
Would have never guessed that,but I'm not surprised, given
being in the corporate world nowfor a decade and seeing what
people are really leaningtowards from a values
perspective and really beingmore intentional about the
(41:40):
people that they choose to workwith and work for.
So, confidence, confidence,call to action with this
conversation there.
Sindra, this has been awesomeso far.
You have a knack for developinghighly useful and easy to
(42:02):
remember frameworks, and onethat stood out to me was learn,
burn and return no-transcript.
(42:33):
And how do we apply that in ourlife and where would we apply
that?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Oh, that's actually one of my favorite tools from
Beyond Grit and one that'sreally sticky, so it's easy to
remember and you could use itanytime you're overthinking
something, anytime you'veexperienced a mistake or a
disappointment, or you'refrustrated, or you're beating
yourself up, and the tool goeslike this the first thing you
(43:01):
want to do is ask yourself whatdid I learn?
And you want to do it with aprompt like next time I will,
because you can't do anythingabout what just happened, like
it's done right.
And this is really importantbecause if you choose the same
(43:21):
phrase or action every time, itstrengthens a new neural pathway
so you're less likely tooverthink.
You know, ryan, I call myself arecovering overthinker.
I used to overthink all thetime and it's fascinating when
I'm in the corporate space and Ido keynotes, and even today,
when I was with an athletic team, I asked them like, what
(43:49):
percentage of you areoverthinkers?
And like almost 90% of peopleraise their hand, it's
fascinating and the other 10%are just like overthinking if
they should raise their hand ornot.
I just find, like most peopleoverthink, so you want to use
the same phrase or action, andthat what I do is I say how fast
, that fast.
You know, kind of snap.
You might pretend to flush atoilet that's what some people
(44:11):
do.
You might brush it off, youmight say next play or be
present, but the thing is youwant to choose the same phrase
or action to move on Again.
It grows that muscle in yourbrain and then the last part is
to return and that means buildyourself back up.
So a few days ago I was workingwith an athletic team and the
(44:36):
presentation went just a littlebit longer than I wanted to and
I noticed myself, even thoughthat the first like 50 minutes
was phenomenal.
You know, afterwards I was justlike Sindra, you should have
known better, you should havecut this, you should have did
this Right.
And as I was laying in bed Iwas just like ruminating on that
and I'm like that is nothelpful, because you just made
(44:56):
this incredible impact on thisteam and now you're just
thinking about.
You know you're beatingyourself up.
So I thought, okay, what wouldI do differently next time?
Next time I would cut thissection.
All right, burn it, let it gothat fast.
Return means build yourconfidence back up and that
means like telling myself I'mreally great at this, I made a
(45:17):
positive impact with this team.
I'm so grateful for theopportunity.
You know and I know you.
I know you might learn and burn, but you don't return.
You don't build yourself backup after a disappointment or a
setback.
And, as Ryan, as you thinkabout the question you asked me,
like, what do the world's bestdo differently?
They don't let themselves getin that downward spiral.
(45:39):
They pick themselves back up,even after a mistake or
disappointment, and they'rereminding themselves like I'm
meant to be on this field.
You know, this is my passion,I'm great at this, you know, and
no matter if you're on thefield or in your life.
Like just reminding yourselfthis is what you're meant to do
also allows you to, like,continue to reset and that's so
(46:01):
important to move on that fastand reset our muscle.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah, wow, yeah, absolutely.
So it's a great tool, from whatI hear, to get to, to get back
to center and, hey, we're goingto not everything's going to go
our way.
We might make mistakes, whichreally that just means we're
going to create opportunitiesthat we didn't foresee and we
move forward and that's what wedo.
(46:27):
So, sindra, you actually get tobe the first person that I get
to create this conversation with, so I recently started
exploring, as I was thinkingabout the business and the
podcast and life.
There are a lot of topics thatwe talk about that can be
(46:48):
defined so many different ways.
Take even confidence andmotivation.
What it means to you might becompletely different to what it
means to somebody else.
Same for motivation.
Now, when we think aboutwinning, I launched a newsletter
recently called Winning IsBecause how I define winning and
how you define winning may bedifferent, but through our
(47:11):
varying perspectives, we may begiving somebody a tool or
helping unlock a new thoughtpattern that can help somebody
gain higher performance or thatmental edge.
So if I ask you, what iswinning to you?
Winning is dot, dot, dot.
What does that blank look likefor you?
Speaker 1 (47:32):
I think of two answers.
I think winning is being yourbest consistently, because
winning is actually somethingyou can't control, but you can
control how you show up.
And I also think of winning asthis acronym.
What's important now?
And I like that acronym becauseyou can't be your best if
(47:56):
you're not in the present moment, and you know we only spend 47%
of our time in the presentmoment.
53% of our time is we'refocused on something other than
what we're doing, which is veryscary.
You know that study wasconducted by two Harvard
professors and it's like what'simportant now?
(48:16):
Can you be your best more often?
That's what I think winning is,because we ultimately can't
control the outcome of the gameor the outcome of if you get
that promotion or not.
It's out of your control.
You can control showing up asyour very best.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
How do you believe how you just defined winning
today would have looked like ifwe asked the Sindra that was
running at iowa and was the bestof the best and then went to
college and found out oh wow,we're around a lot of people
(48:53):
that are also the best of thebest.
What do you believe thedifference, if there is one,
would have been in that response?
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I think it's very different.
I think I spent most of myfocus on the outcome in college
and I was so outcome focused,like I wanted to run a certain
time or I wanted to get in thetop five or the top three, and I
defined my identity by myoutcome and that's ultimately
(49:22):
like why I think I struggled andwhy I.
You know it was a lot, therewas a lot of inner limits for me
at the time, like constantcomparison, constant judgment,
but I wish that I would havefocused on the small steps to
get there and I wish I wouldhave, like I wish I um evaluated
my own success based on myprocess.
(49:44):
You know, like, can I umimplement my race plan?
Can I talk to myself powerfullyin the race?
Can I um, you know, give mybest effort?
Those are all the things Icould control, and I think most
of my college career I wasfocused on things I could not
control and that's why I justkept on being in that downward
(50:06):
spiral, you know.
And so I think syndrome,college syndrome, thinks very
differently than you know,professional syndrome right now,
and I think those are things Ijust had to learn and you know
so much of.
I think our identity can be tiedup into, like the outcome and
(50:27):
the outcome is completely out ofyour control.
Did I get a standing ovation?
Okay, that meant I did reallygood, but now it's like my only
judgment of myself, or mykeynotes, is like did I show up
(50:49):
fully as Cendra Kampoff today?
And if I showed up fully asCendra Kampoff, like that's what
my definition of success is?
Because when I show up fully asCendra Kampoff, you know with
you, ryan, and you show up fullyas Ryan, you know, then there's
no barriers to connection andthat's where we can make the
most impact.
When our true authentic self sothat's how I define success now
(51:12):
is like can I show up as mytrue authentic self, you know,
moment after moment, which canbe difficult, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Yeah, part of why I'm so curious and about this
question and this conversationaround winning is that I'm
seeing more of a shift, in thatit's not so binary and it's not
as outcome driven as we believeit may be or as the word may
(51:43):
appear to be.
As you mentioned before and I'mwith you as well winning
certainly would have been tiedto a scoreboard or some sort of
outcome, but now it's somethingmuch deeper.
For you, it's with presence.
For me, it's being in constantcreation and alignment with my
(52:04):
goals and values, and constantcreation of powerful
conversations like this,constant creation of meaningful
experiences with people in theworld.
And 22 year old Ryan 10 yearsago would have said something
completely different.
So one last bit on this is ifsomeone, if you were to give
(52:25):
someone one piece of advice asto how they could define what
winning is for their life, whatwould that be?
Speaker 1 (52:32):
A piece of advice would be to think about what
definition would propel youforward and to use that
definition when you think aboutwhat.
Do you really need winning tobe like to be your best?
What does that mean to you?
And I would just give themadvice to say be careful that
(52:52):
it's not the outcome, becauseyou can't ultimately control if
you can reach that outcome.
And we know, ryan, that some ofthe world's best athletes, for
example, they do have outcomegoals, like they want to make it
to the Olympics or they want tomake it to the Super Bowl.
And I would also say is youknow, they have other goals
(53:13):
along with those and they usethose goals to like, motivate
them, those outcome goals, butevery day they focus on what
they can control.
So I would say consider yourdefinition of success and
winning to be something you cancontrol, because that's going to
get you further along and keepyou more motivated.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Amen to that, sandra.
There's a couple different waysthat we can work with you and
keep up with you.
You are offering an amazingopportunity for folks to take
advantage of a breakthrough.
Call with you and the team atthe Mentally Strong Institute.
Talk through how we could takeadvantage of that opportunity,
(53:59):
in addition to some otherexciting ways that we can work
with you.
Support you and the MentallyStrong Institute.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Thank you, ryan.
That's very nice of you to ask.
I'm offering anyone who islistening and who was moved by
the conversation today to headover to
freementalbreakthroughcallcom,and that's where you can sign up
for a free breakthrough callwith myself or one of my team
members at Mentally Strong, andwhat we do is we help people get
(54:29):
to their goals quicker and toincrease their influence and to
grow their confidence.
So we'll talk about thispodcast and what you learned
from it to help you reallysolidify some things that you
can use to move forward.
So again, that'sfreementalbreakthroughcallcom,
and at the Mentally StrongInstitute, we offer one-on-one
coaching, we offer keynotespeaking and training, and then
(54:52):
we also offer this amazingopportunity to become certified
in my work and it's called theMentally Strong Coach
Certification and it's forpeople who want to learn more
about coaching.
Maybe they want to bringcoaching into their team and
maybe they're a leader and theywant to get better at coaching
(55:14):
their team members, or they'rean athletic coach, or maybe
you're just interested ingaining the skills of coaching.
And so we have a new cohortstarting September 8th.
That, ryan, is going to beamazing.
This is our fourth cohort andI've loved every single cohort
and they get like ongoingtraining from me every month too
, which is really cool, and so,even if you're listening to this
(55:37):
, after September 8th, when ournext cohort is, we offer a
couple of different cohortsevery year and you can learn
more again if you just go tomentallystronginstitutecom and
click on certification, or youcan just jump on a call with us
at freementalbreakthroughcallcomand we can chat with you about
it and answer any of yourquestions.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
I highly recommend that folks take advantage of
this opportunity and keep intouch with Sindra and follow
along with what's going on withthe institute.
There is amazing work.
I've signed up for theconfidence course and was
walking through the video beforewe jumped on and that's a three
(56:22):
video series course thatanybody can also get for free.
And start taking advantage andreally take the tools and
frameworks that Sandra and Ihave briefly gone over today and
incorporate that into your life.
Sandra, I have one closingquestion for you, and that's
this what's one step that we cantake today to move ourselves
(56:49):
closer to our goals?
Speaker 1 (56:50):
The one step you can take is let's go back to your
opening quote.
If your dreams don't scare you,they aren't big enough, and I
know that you are moved in thisconversation in some way to
dream a little bit bigger, andI'm going to encourage you to
write that big dream down.
And then I want you, every day,just to take little steps to
get towards that dream.
And when people say, you know,no, that's not possible for you,
(57:14):
I want you to remind yourselfof why it is possible for you,
Because anything's possible,right, and keep that focus top
of mind and look at that goalevery day and imagine yourself
reaching that goal, because youcan do it.
And then think about you know,what do you need to believe
about yourself to reach thatgoal?
So I would say keep dreaming bigand keep going after that big,
(57:37):
courageous dream, because whenyou get there, it's going to be
incredible, the best thingyou've ever done.
And, brian, I would also justlike because when you get there,
it's going to be incredible,the best thing you've ever done.
And, brian, I would also justlike to give you some love here.
Like you are amazing at askingme just amazing questions, I can
tell that you prepared so wellfor this interview and you did
your research, and that doesn'talways happen.
(57:58):
So I just want to say thank youso much for having me and for
your listeners.
I can see why they keep tuningin every episode because you
know you're such thoughtfulquestions that really go deep
and not are so superficial.
So keep it up and everyone keeplistening to Ryan's podcast.
Speaker 2 (58:18):
Thanks so much.
Sindra and everybody, dream big, run towards the things that
scare you, the things that,rather, on the other side of the
things that we don't want to door that we're scared of, is the
best and better version ofourselves that will help us win
(58:38):
today.
Thank you so much.
We might think that all elite athletes are 100%
confident all the time, butthat's actually not true, that
just they're human, just like weare.
And I love this acronym byDaniel Amen.
The acronym is AutomaticNegative Thoughts, or ANTS, and
I love just using that because Iwish I would have known this in
(00:20):
college that the thoughts thatI choose you know are the
thoughts I have in my mindaren't always the ones I choose,
but I get to choose if I'mgoing to listen to them or not.
And just like them, you know,just like we do, we have
automatic negative thoughts.
And I love this quote by JoeMontana.
You know, legendary quarterbackfor the 49ers, and he said
(00:41):
confidence is a very fragilething.
It is, it's like a thermometer.
And so nobody I've ever workedwith at the elite level has said
to me Cinder, I am a hundredpercent confident all the time
because it's not.
It's not true.
What I would say is what thebest do to build their
confidence is they do realizeit's a choice.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Do hard things help one person.
It's a choice.
Do hard things, help one person, Be good and do good.
Live a life of discipline andyou will always win.
You have all the tools that youneed to succeed.
Welcome to win today.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
My name is Ryan Cass and I amyour host.
(01:23):
My purpose in this world is tohelp push people further and
harder than they believepossible and become unshakable
in what matters most to them intheir lives.
Every week, you're going tolearn from either myself or a
renowned expert in their field,and we're going to unveil pieces
of our playbook to help you wintoday.
Please, if you love this show,subscribe and share it with
(01:44):
somebody that will benefit fromit.
Let's dig in.
If your dreams don't scare you,well then they aren't big
enough, and that's somethingthat our guest today embodies
better than anyone I know.
We have Dr Sindra Kampoff withus today, who has spent multiple
(02:06):
decades helping elite athletesand business leaders enhance
their mental edge through a fewof her ventures.
She is the founder of theMentally Strong Institute, where
she has worked with iconicteams such as the Minnesota
Vikings and the USA Track andField Team, and she is also a
bestselling author of multiplebooks, one that we'll talk about
(02:27):
today, which is Beyond Grit.
Cendra, welcome, it's an honorto have you.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Ryan, congratulations on the podcast.
It's incredible and I know thatyou know this, but this is
actually my favorite quote youjust started with is like if
your dreams don't scare you,they aren't big enough, because
I actually think we all needreally scary dreams to keep
going and moving towards.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I may or may not have found that doing some homework
on you and I saw that onLinkedIn and it's always a, it's
always my, my mission to honorthe guests and and do homework
is one way to do that.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So when, I saw that.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I loved seeing that.
Before we dig into a lot of the, what I really would love to
understand the why and when.
I have the opportunity to speakwith people that are in the
business of helping people inthe way that you do, in the
(03:26):
business of helping people inthe way that you do, in really
gaining a mental edge andunlocking high performance that
exists and resides within all ofus.
Yes, they didn't just wake upone day and come to this
decision that this is what Iwant to do.
This is my vocation.
There's usually somethingdeeper that is fueling that.
So how did we get to where weare today and what was the
(03:49):
catalyst or series of eventsthat ultimately put you to where
you are, working with the bestof the best and inspiring them
and fueling their minds?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Well, thank you for asking that question, ryan.
I think that my why and mypurpose is very deep.
It starts from when I was inhigh school and I grew up in
Iowa, and my senior year I ranthe fastest mile in the state of
Iowa and so, you know, had alot of success in high school
(04:19):
and I expected to get to thenext level and become an
All-American, which is the topin the country, and even an
Olympian.
But when I got to college,that's actually where I really
struggled with the mental game.
It was like everyone was justas fast as me.
I thought that the more I beatmyself up, the better I would do
.
But now I know that theresearch shows the opposite,
(04:42):
that compassion with yourself isactually the way to get ahead.
And I just constantly beatmyself up throughout my college
career and, as a result, youknow, wasn't even close to
becoming an All-American, almostwanted to quit, just like,
really struggled with my ownmental health, and that's where
I started learning aboutperformance in sports psychology
(05:03):
.
That's where I started learningabout performance and sports
psychology and I, you know, atthat time there wasn't any like
podcasts.
There wasn't any tangible booksthat you really could read.
It was kind of hard to findinformation and it was hard to
like distill the theory downinto really practical tools, and
so my book Beyond Grit is verypractical, it's easy to read.
I had a coach actually I workedwith a team today and the coach
(05:26):
said like it's the easiest bookI've ever read around mental
performance and like I was justhonored that she said that
because it's the book I wish Ihad, you know, when I was in
college.
So that's kind of like thefirst crucible moment that led
me just to study this field andget a PhD in it.
And then, about 12 years ago, Ihad another major crucible
(05:48):
moment.
So after I finished my PhD, Iwas a college professor at
Minnesota State and I stillteach there, but it was full
time college professor at thetime and and, honestly, wasn't
really getting out there muchwith my message or I felt like I
was playing small, you know,and really didn't have these big
courageous dreams.
(06:08):
Well, I did have big courageousdreams but I kept on like
getting my own way around themand just, you know, thinking
that I didn't have the skills orit wasn't something that I
could do.
In 2013, I was, I got back intorunning and was running several
marathons every year and ran theBoston Marathon and, as you
(06:29):
know, ryan, but as the listenersprobably know, what happened in
2013 is there was a bomb at themarathon and I could detail
what that was like.
I was basically a block awayand had just finished the race
and really was just excited tocelebrate because it was my
fastest marathon I had completedat that point and just felt
(06:53):
like I completely dominated therace from a mental, mental
perspective, right, I justreally didn't even want that
race to end.
It was just beautiful andamazing and um, but then you
know that after, obviously, thebomb happened and, honestly, I
didn't really think I was goingto get home to my two boys.
I didn't.
I didn't know if the next, youknow, the next day, if I'd even,
(07:15):
you know, was there potentiallya bomb in our hotel because we
were just right next to thefinish line, and so that whole
day, um, I just remember askingmyself some really huge
questions that day, like whatdifference do I make and why do
I do what I do?
And, you know, am I reallyplaying as big as I could be?
And after quite a bit ofreflection, you know, and
(07:38):
honestly, those were just thequestions that came through my
mind and I decided I was playingreally small and I wanted to
work with the Minnesota Vikings,I wanted to write a book, I
wanted to become a speaker, butall of that was really, really
scary.
And so after the marathon Ijust came back and every day
just tried to do something everyday.
That, honestly, was just alittle bit scary, and I think
(08:01):
that's ultimately what's allowedme now to, you know, work with
some of the top teams andathletes in the country and have
a robust team.
Um, we're at the mentallystrong Institute and we work
with leaders and executives andathletes and teams.
And I don't think if I wouldhave experienced those two
moments in my life like Ibelieve everything happens for
(08:22):
us, not to us.
And uh and that's a Byron Katiequote, you know I love her Like
I believe everything happensfor us, not to us.
And that's a Byron Katie quote,you know I love her.
But she says what if everythinghappens for you and not to you?
And I believe that.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Got this Byron Katie book right here and actually how
I came to discover Byron Katie?
Your story, Sindra, is makingme think a lot about my friend,
Chris Doris, who is a mentalperformance coach.
He had a dream that he wantedto work with golfers and he was
(08:54):
at Arizona State getting hismaster's in sports psychology
and he was having thisconversation with himself how
the hell am I going to be amental performance coach to a
bunch of golfers?
And he was scared.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Now.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I want to dive in a little bit more on what the
conversation was with yourself,but more so the action of you.
Get this whole new perspectiveshift about life through a
tragic event at the BostonMarathon 2013.
It's tough not to think aboutthat, even walking down Boylston
(09:32):
Street, having ran the marathonmultiple times, because you and
I know, and many runners know,that that marathon and those
final two turns on Hereford andBoylston are sacred, they're
iconic, and that happened.
Then this thought of workingwith the Vikings comes into play
(09:54):
.
Then the fear comes in.
What do some of these actionsthat scare you look like and
what are the conversations goingon in your mind and what are
some of the things that you'relearning along the way as you're
just stepping into this fear ofthe unknown?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
What a great question , I think that day, like those
were the questions that wentthrough my mind, you know, like
why am I still here?
What difference do I make?
Why do I do what I do?
And it was wild because, youknow, after a really great
marathon, you want to celebrateand none of us were celebrating.
We didn't even eat dinner, youknow like there was.
(10:35):
You know, like we're just kindof in survival mode for a while
as we kind of figured out whatwas going on.
And, um, I think, when I cameback, a few of the things I did
was I read a book called thePower of Purpose by Richard
Leiter.
He's a Minnesota author, I livein Minnesota, and so I wanted to
(10:55):
really figure out what mypurpose was.
And his research shows, when weunderstand our purpose, we live
up to seven to ten years longerand that it's really vital for
our health and wellness and ourwell-being.
And you know, I just decidedthat, like I, you know, I had
these big aspirations, but Ithink my head trash was telling
(11:17):
me things like, you know, youdidn't play football, you know.
Or sometimes when I would tellpeople my goals, like to work in
football or to work with a proteam.
You know they.
Sometimes when I would tellpeople my goals like to work in
football or to work with a proteam you know they'd be like,
yeah, good luck with that, youknow.
And so I had to really justlisten to my own inner voice and
I had to keep resetting,writing my goals down and saying
(11:38):
, no, this is what I'm going todo.
And I think so many times welisten to what other people say
instead what we really trulybelieve about ourselves.
And it's, you know, for me, mywork in football it started
actually about right after themarathon.
I started working with ourcollege football team, minnesota
State, and they startedimplementing the mental game and
(12:00):
then one of the players namedAdam Thielen, who maybe you know
of, introduced me to theVikings.
So it's like you never knowwhat can happen.
And now I work with.
You know it's the fall season,so last week I was working with
three top college football teamsjust all over the US and it's a
(12:26):
blast because I love the energyof football and I think it's
probably like you know, peopleare like who is this woman here?
You know I surprise them, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, I love hearing how people make their dreams
play out, because in hearing itand seeing it and feeling it,
because I'm feeling it come offyou, even though we're we're
connected via internet and I'min South Carolina and you're in
Minnesota, I can feel it thepassion, the energy, the
(12:58):
excitement.
All of that to me, and I and Iit's my wish that this serves
the exact same way for listenersis it shows that the
possibilities we have for ourlife are A endless yes B.
You can't spell possibilitieswithout a possible.
So these things, our dreams,are possible, and you're a
(13:22):
living example of that bowl andyou're a living example of that.
I would love to understand, aswe talk about, one of the top
qualities for the best of thebest and you've referenced this
study many times from angeladuckworth is that they they
possess grit grit beyond thenormal measure of humans.
(13:46):
They possess an upstandinglevel of grit which we can
cultivate for ourselves.
You have your book Beyond Gritand in there there are 10
practices that we can take todevelop our grit, muscle and
train and perform like theseelite athletes and business
leaders do.
So can you help us betterunderstand what are those core
(14:11):
practices and what does it looklike to help build our grit
muscles so that we can make ourdreams possible.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Absolutely, and so thank you so much for just
introducing Angela Duckworth'swork.
So grit is having passion andpurpose for your very long-term
goals, and we did a study lastyear where we interviewed
professional athletes about howthey developed their grit, and
it's interesting.
What we found is that theirgrit came from overcoming the
(14:41):
most difficult moment in theirlives right.
For them it was like a seizingending injury or a parent's
divorce or their own cancer, andso when we think about you know
the best of the best, and Ithink the examples in my life
are even ways that I've tried tobetter understand my passion
through these difficult moments,and I find that the best
(15:02):
athletes and leaders in theworld they make sure that they
are using those crucibles as away to move forward, and the way
that they're understanding thatadversity is key, and so grit
and difficult moments actuallyhelp us shape who we are today.
So the book is called BeyondGrit because that's the first
(15:24):
practice, and we know someresearch shows that grit has
been described as the number onepredictor of our performance,
which is we know it's like a toppredictor.
The second practice is purposeand understanding why you're
here, and I think about liketoday I was speaking to a team
and it's like I still thinkabout me in college and the
(15:45):
struggles I had, and it makes mereally stay passionate about my
work.
Number three is about masteringyour thoughts.
So this one is all about whatare you putting in your mind and
are you listening to theautomatic negative thoughts or
talking to yourself powerfully,which is key to get to your
goals.
Number four is aboutself-awareness, so this means
like understanding yourself.
(16:06):
What are your triggers, whatare your strengths?
Can you keep just payingattention to the ways that you
get in your own way andintervene with yourself?
Five is dominate thecontrollables.
This one is all about focusingon what we can control, because
it is so easy to get stuck inthe economy or your members of
(16:28):
your team or people saying thatyou can't do it.
Number six is about owning themoment, and we know peak
performance happens in thepresent moment, not in the past
or future.
Number seven is all aboutchoosing empowering emotions
like gratitude and confidence,and how can you cultivate that
in yourself?
And eight is about authenticity.
(16:50):
This one is also a practice, andthat just means like showing up
as your true self, which is apractice and, honestly, very
hard, particularly if you feeljudged.
Number nine is about living andletting go.
This is, ryan, the mostdifficult practice that I find
people struggle with, and I cantalk a little bit about that if
you'd like.
And then number 10 is aboutchoosing courage over comfort,
(17:11):
and this one is all about doingthings that are a little bit
scary to grow your muscle ofcourage and to help you reach
your big dreams, because it's soeasy to just give in and say
you know, that's not for me, butwe got to keep on resetting our
courage muscle.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I love those and I wish we could dive into all of
them, but what I was as you weresaying them, I was thinking in
my head as well.
Okay, what are the two to threethat people struggle with the
most?
Or as, as they hear it, it maycome across easier said than
done.
Hey, show up as your authenticself.
You and I can say that to eachother, and it'll land Now.
There was probably a point inour time, in our lives or I'm
(17:53):
certain, at least for myself,that you could have said that
and say what the heck does thateven mean?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
How am I even?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
supposed to know?
So can we focus on eight andnine and let's start with
authenticity?
And what is it that makes thatdifficult for people to grasp?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
So that's a great question.
So authenticity is the practiceof showing up as yourself, and
I think it starts withunderstanding like what are your
strengths when you most comealive?
What does that look like andfeel like when you are at your
best?
What does that look like andfeel like?
And you know the barriers toshowing up as our authentic self
(18:30):
is judgment of self, judgmentof others, and we know that the
more that you judge yourself,the more likely you judge others
.
Comparison is another barrierto authenticity, is another
barrier to authenticity, and Ithink what's powerful about that
is once you get clear on whatit is actually to be yourself,
(18:51):
right, what does that look like?
What's it feel like?
Can you practice showing up asyourself in moments that matter
most to you?
And about 10 years ago I wasactually at a Tony Robbins event
and I love going to Tony eventsbecause they really do fuel me
and help me reset.
(19:11):
And I was at this event andsomeone said to me Sindra, your
energy is your superpower.
And I was like it was thisstranger who said this to me and
I realized at that moment thatI had been kind of hiding my
energy, that maybe especiallybecause I work with a lot of,
like, male teams that maybe,maybe, like you know, the my
(19:33):
energy made me too feminine ortoo, I don't know, I'm not sure
what my perception was, but thatperson gave me permission to
really show up as more of myauthentic self with my energy,
and I'm so grateful for thatstranger.
I wish I would remember thatperson's name, because sometimes
(19:53):
you know, when we are in theseevents where we're truly
ourselves, like pay attention,what has led you to that, and I
think for me it was.
You know what has led you tothat, and I think for me it was.
You know, less trash talk andjust fully being present in the
moment.
And I think what's mostpowerful is ask people around
you.
You know what?
What does it look like to forme to be my true self?
(20:16):
And then you know, also, likepaying attention to that
judgment in your head andquieting, softening that inner
voice, reminding yourself likeyou're just enough, the way you
are.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Wow, is there a particular question that someone
should ask themselves so thatthey can confirm, or rather have
a better understanding of whatit even means to know that
they're showing up as theirauthentic self?
Now, I love what you mentionedabout we can go and ask a third
party hey, what does it looklike when I'm showing up as my
(20:49):
true self, so really gettingtheir experience of you?
But if we're going to lookinside so that I can tell you,
hey, sindra, when I'm myauthentic self, I am XYZ, is
that the question that someoneshould ask?
Is it as simple as when I am myauthentic self, I am dot dot
(21:11):
dot.
Or are there differentintrospective questions and
inventory we can take to betterunderstand that?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
question that comes to my mind is when you are, when
you feel most alive, what doesthat look like and feel like to
you?
You know, so when you're mostalive, how does that feel in
your body?
And then how would other peopledescribe you when you're most
alive?
Because I think when you'remost alive that shows your
authenticity.
And you know when you thinkabout the barriers.
We just conducted this nationalresearch study on confidence
that people can download atConfidenceStudycom and it was
(21:54):
fascinating.
One of the most startlingresults from the study that I
couldn't believe is that one intwo Gen Z-er.
So a Gen Z-er is the ages of 18to 29.
So one in two consistently orfrequently feel like they're not
enough.
So that means half of Gen Z-ersconsistently or frequently feel
(22:17):
like they're not enough.
And we even found that withyoung millennials, so the age
group just a little older than aGen Z-er.
And how does this connect toauthenticity?
Because when we're continuingto feel like we're not enough,
it's really difficult to show upas our authentic self.
But we know when you're yourauthentic self, you're free to
(22:38):
be yourself and that's you knowthere's less barriers to peak
performance when you're trulylike in the moment, like that's
ultimately what leads to flow,like being in the present, being
your authentic self, owningyour strengths.
And I think it's surprising tothink of, like one and two Gen
Zers Ryan, I have two boys thatare Gen Zers and it breaks my
(23:02):
heart right To think that, likewe have one and two Gen Zers and
you know that's our nextgeneration of our workforce we
have one and two Gen Zers andyou know that's our next
generation of our workforce.
And there you know, you have alot of Gen Zers.
All the people are listening intheir in your life.
So thinking about, like, whatare you doing to help them feel
like they're not enough, to helpthem build their confidence and
to help them show up as theirauthentic self?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
50% of Gen's ears.
Wow, I'm glad you introducedthe confidence study, because
that's certainly one thing I wasmost excited to speak with you
about, because I feel as ifconfidence and motivation are
two things that people ask abouta lot.
How do you generate confidence,how do you become so motivated?
(23:48):
And it would be so awesome ifboth of those things were.
You know, when you're gettingdressed in the morning, you put
on your shirt, you get yourcoffee, you get your keys and
you grab your motivation, yougrab your confidence and you put
it on you and you walk out thedoor.
Boom, like it feels as if thereare people in this world that
that's just how it works forthem.
(24:09):
A lot of people desire to behighly confident, to be highly
motivated.
Confidence diving deeper.
I have guesses as to why 50% ofGen Zers feel the way that they
do, but what does the researchshow and can you uncover a
(24:29):
little bit more about what'spreventing people from being
highly confident and that willunlock how we can become more
confident and build thatconfidence?
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, awesome question.
I would describe that thereason that one and two Gen Zers
feel like they're consistentlyor frequently not enough is
because of you know, you thinkabout a Gen Zer.
At least my kids went throughCOVID.
You know, at a really importanttime, like they're in eighth
grade, which is difficult, right, and then we have this phone in
(25:01):
our pockets that we've hadsince maybe we were in the
second or third grade and we areconstantly comparing ourselves
because of social media, and sothat's the reasons I would
describe that Gen Zers one andtwo consistently or frequently
feel like they're not enough.
And the problem is, when we lackconfidence, we start second
(25:24):
guessing ourselves.
We hold our opinions back,right, we don't show up as our
authentic self.
We might procrastinate.
We even found like one third ofworking Americans have quit a
job because it was activelyhurting their confidence, which
just kind of shows you likepeople are willing to quit a job
.
You know if it impacts theirconfidence.
And we found that confidenceisn't just an individual issue,
(25:49):
and what I mean by that is wetend to kind of think that you
know, it's our own thing to grow, but we found that confidence
is lower in the workplace.
You are less likely tovolunteer for things you
(26:12):
procrastinate, and it evenimpacts revenue and the bottom
line.
And so this is why it's reallyimportant for leaders to be
thinking about how you can growconfidence of others, why it's
important for leaders to thinkabout like what they do to kill
confidence, because it isimpacting, you know,
productivity, stress and anxiety, workplace culture, even a
(26:35):
decline in revenue, as Imentioned.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
What does that confidence building practice
look like for elite athletes andsome of the teams that you've
worked with?
Because when we're watching,let's say, the Vikings- on.
ESPN, which is coming up herevery soon.
I know Everybody on the team orit appears that everybody on
(26:59):
the team looks like they'rethey're ready to roll, they are
confident, as can be, and that'sthe external image.
Now, what we don't know fromthe couch is what's going on in
their mind.
Are they actually feeling likethey are going to make the big
(27:24):
completion, that they are goingto make the big block, or that
they're going to be able tointercept this pass and run it
back for a nice pick six?
There could be that, or therecould be holy smokes.
This guy is going to absolutelyrun me over and I'm not strong
enough.
We have a 330-pound D linemanthat's going to blow me over and
I'm praying for life, prayingfor life.
(27:46):
So what does that look likewith those folks?
So we can take a piece of theplaybook from the best of the
best.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
So that's a great question, ryan.
You know, I think that we mightthink that all elite athletes
are 100% confident all the time,but that's actually not true,
that just they're human, justlike we are.
And I love this acronym byDaniel Amen.
The acronym is automaticnegative thoughts or ants, and I
(28:14):
love just using that, because Iwish I would have known this in
college that the thoughts thatI choose, you know, are the
thoughts I have in my mindaren't always the ones I choose,
but I get to choose if I'mgoing to listen to them or not.
And just like them, you know,just like we do, we have
automatic negative thoughts.
And I love this quote by JoeMontana, you know, legendary
(28:36):
quarterback for the 49ers, andhe said confidence is a very
fragile thing.
It is, it's like a thermometer.
And so nobody I've ever workedwith at the elite level has said
to me Cinder, I am 100%confident all the time.
Because it's not true.
What I would say is what thebest do to build their
confidence is they do realizeit's a choice.
(28:57):
They do focus more on powerfulthoughts and powerful images,
and they are laying in bed atnight and they're thinking about
the things they're going to do.
They use imagery.
You know, we know, imagery isone of the most powerful mental
tools that you can use to buildconfidence, where you imagine
past successes or futuresuccesses.
(29:20):
And then I would also say, youknow and this is one of the
things we found in our researchstudy is that releasing judgment
and letting go of past mistakesis key to growing your
confidence.
And so you know, when I thinkabout my own experience that
I've just kind of shared withyou, like I was very hard on
(29:41):
myself in college, that's alsothe reason I didn't rebound and
bounce back, because you knowthat self-talk was so harsh and
critical and that gets in theway of, you know, building our
confidence and showing up as ourown authentic self.
So I would say, like one of themost important things you can
do is release your judgment, letgo of past mistakes, obviously
(30:03):
making sure you're alwaysprepared that's one of the ways
that builds confidence.
But celebrating youraccomplishments, reminding
yourself, you know, to be yourown inner coach instead of your
own inner critic, and that is apractice.
You know, most of our self-talkis like what we tolerate in
ourselves.
You know, and and and makingsure that you don't tolerate the
(30:29):
trash talk and the inner critictalk that is so human of you,
you know because it's so easyjust to give in and say, well,
that's not possible for me orthere's no way I can do that.
But I would say, like you knowthose, those inner critic
thoughts that you said, I wouldsay, yes, nfl players, elite
athletes, have those, but theydecide not to listen to them.
And they, you know, there'seven some really cool research
(30:50):
to show that, like pre-plannedself-talk, like planning what
you're going to say to yourselfin moments that matter most to
you, can help you gain the edgeand not listen to that.
You know that harsh innercritic.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
So pre-planned self-talk would that be?
Even, let's say, let's saywe're a baseball player, so I'm
a big, I'm a big Yankees fan.
So my pre-planned self-talkbefore I step in that batter's
box it could be something likeokay, I know, before the game
starts, that when I step in thatbatter's box, what I'm going to
tell myself is I'm a greathitter, I'm capable, and it
(31:26):
doesn't matter if it's a 98 milean hour fastball up and in or
82 mile an hour cutter, I canhit this ball and I can make
things happen for the team.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
I love it.
Yes, and I would say, say thosethings as you're warming up and
before you go in the batter'sbox and then let your mind be
empty and free just to be in themoment.
But I think those powerfulself-talk is really important.
One example I can give ofmyself is when I got back into
(31:59):
running after my college career,I ran the Omaha Marathon and
this was a really specialmarathon to me because my
parents live in Omaha and myboys were there and my sister
was there and my husband wasthere.
You know, it was like and alsohad trained really hard for this
race Like at that point I wasrunning like 90 miles in a week,
you know.
So I was like ready to likecrush it.
(32:21):
And uh, I remember at one point, um, I was winning the race at
mile like 20, which is like Icouldn't believe I was winning a
marathon, you know.
And then the second place womanjust came on my tail, like so
fast.
It was like, ooh, you know.
And then we had the biggesthill we were trying to climb and
I remember my automaticnegative thoughts were just like
(32:42):
you know, you suck, sindra, doyou think you can win this race?
Like, come on.
You know better.
You know I just want to quit.
What in the world were youthinking that you were going to
do here?
You know you're running toofast and I had to.
You know, just listen to thatdoubt spiral, because it's so
easy to go down there so quick,especially when you're tired and
(33:04):
you're suffering eithermentally or physically.
And I had some statements I hadwritten out on my arm, actually,
ryan, you know.
So I had them in marker and Ithought a lot about like how am
I at my best?
So I had pre-planned them and Ithought what do I need to
remind myself in times I'mstruggling?
And you know what wordsrepresent my best?
(33:28):
And it was things like I knowI'm ready, I'm fit, I'm
confident, I have everything Ineed inside me.
You know I'm ready, I'mconfident, I have everything
inside, I need within me.
And I just started like sayingthose things to myself over and
over again.
And the amazing part aboutendurance events is like you can
see, you know how your thoughtsdirectly connect to your pace.
And I is like you can see, youknow how your thoughts directly
(33:49):
connect to your pace.
And I remember, like thatsecond place woman like on my
tail for about a half mile, butthen after that it was over, you
know, because my body followedmy mind and it was like I just
got this surge of energy.
I don't even remember severalof those final miles and when I
finished the race, like just Iwas bawling, you know, because
(34:13):
it was like I had overcome myown inner demon, something I
wish I would have done incollege.
But I did it in that momentright, and I guess you know, I
think for everyone who'slistening, it's like what do you
want to tell yourself?
And the powerful thing is youcan create your own self-image.
And even in the morning, I haveabout 30 statements I say to
(34:33):
myself every morning.
That really represents how do Iwant to keep growing, and one
of them is I'm passionate.
Another one is I'm the bestdamn keynote speaker you ever
heard.
Because that's the way I wantto keep growing is I want to
continue to like level up mypresence on stage, and so I
think that's what's cool is likeyou know, you never outperform
(34:55):
yourself image, and so you'vegot to keep on leveling up your
image of yourself to help youreach your goals.
So you could think about whatare the goals I'm going after,
what are some big, courageousgoals?
And then, what do I need tobelieve about myself to get to
those goals?
And that's what you have tokeep on telling yourself every
morning.
So you're intentionallyplanting in, you know, those
(35:15):
images around your own selfimage.
So you don't let your thoughtsgo to default, because it's not
always helpful when it goes todefault.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
I appreciate you bringing up the science and
research behind this, because Iwant people to understand that,
although even the words we speaksimple thing to say, simple
thing to understand, but thenhey, no, this isn't just
something that we're saying,that this is a good thing, no,
this is actually studied andproven that the words we speak,
(35:48):
spoken and unspoken, meaninginternal, outward and even
inward to ourselves, matter.
The words we speak matter.
I had a, as you know, about 24hours ago I was pacing through
the Leadville mountains, amazingPacing my lady to finish up the
(36:09):
Leadville 100 mile which is, asyou know and as many people
know, the we'll call it theBoston marathon of trail running
One of the most difficultcourses out there.
There's 12,000 plus feet ofelevation gain, the weather goes
from about 30 degrees to 80degrees, back to 30, all in the
course of the day, and it istreacherous.
(36:33):
It is tough.
One thing that I would ask herhow she's feeling.
The only response she's allowedto give is outstanding.
And even though she was verydeep in the pain cave and she's
walking with her poles and we'reboth freezing and it's two
(36:53):
o'clock in the morning, whatevertime it was, and her, her, her,
a plan went out the window.
That's fine.
We keep moving forward.
We find the next best thing, thenext we're being given an
opportunity, yeah, but the wordswe speak matter, because if you
let the other voice win, thatokay, maybe you're not actually
feeling outstanding, but oh, Ifeel like crap.
(37:14):
Well now, now you're going tomove a little bit slower, that
foot's going to feel a littlebit heavier.
You might not want to push alittle bit harder than than you
can, and that was inspiredactually by Jesse Itzler, who
I'm sure you're familiar with.
Jesse when he was wanting to runhis first ultra marathon.
He reached out to a Navy SEAL,chad Wright, who's another ultra
(37:39):
endurance athlete, and he saidChad, I want you to help me
train for my first ultramarathon.
You know, I can't make it pastthe 30 mile mark, no-transcript.
(38:12):
And Chad's this big, big oldcountry boy from Texas.
And anyways, at mile 30, whereJesse had told Chad this is my
wall, I can't make it past this.
How do you feel Outstanding?
Okay, now we've moved anotherfive miles.
How do you feel, jesse,outstanding?
(38:59):
Mile 50.
Oh, now we're 20 miles furtherthan we've ever ran.
How do situations where we mayfeel like we have zero control
or power, where we may feel likewe have zero controller power,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
I love that example and, you know, I think one of
the most important things toremember is that you can level
up your self-talk and most ofour thoughts are on default.
You know, what the researchshows is about 70% of what we
say to ourselves is moredisempowering.
It tends to be like a repeat ofwhat we say to ourselves is
(39:29):
more disempowering.
It tends to be like a repeat ofwhat we said yesterday.
And even you know our study onconfidence, you know, shows you
the importance of growing yourconfidence and you can.
You know, when you think aboutlike things that you can do, you
can take control of your ownconfidence.
It's a feeling, it's a decisionand it's a skill that you can
keep growing.
(39:50):
But also think about what you doto help other people grow
confidence, because you knowthere are things that you might
not even realize that you dothat impact confidence.
For example, one of the thingswe found in our research study
was that you know leaders, forexample, when they micromanage,
or when they provide a lack ofdirection, or when they don't
(40:12):
show empathy or understanding,and they can create a culture
where people can't take risks orshare concerns like those are
the things that they do.
That prevents confidence, right, but things that leaders can do
instead are setting achievablestretch goals.
But things that leaders can doinstead are setting achievable
stretch goals, delegating,recognizing achievements,
embracing failure, and those areall examples of things that you
(40:36):
can do.
You know our study we foundthat 63% of working Americans
would actually take a lowerpaying job to work with a leader
who actively builds theirconfidence.
So more than half the peoplewould take less money to work
with a leader that buildsconfidence.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Wow.
So if this is a call to actionfor everybody to focus on that
confidence muscle, both foryourself, but then for the teams
that you support, for theorganizations that you're a part
of, that's a staggeringpercentage.
(41:18):
Wow, 63% 63%.
Would have never guessed that,but I'm not surprised, given
being in the corporate world nowfor a decade and seeing what
people are really leaningtowards from a values
perspective and really beingmore intentional about the
(41:40):
people that they choose to workwith and work for.
So, confidence, confidence,call to action with this
conversation there.
Sindra, this has been awesomeso far.
You have a knack for developinghighly useful and easy to
(42:02):
remember frameworks, and onethat stood out to me was learn,
burn and return no-transcript.
(42:33):
And how do we apply that in ourlife and where would we apply
that?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Oh, that's actually one of my favorite tools from
Beyond Grit and one that'sreally sticky, so it's easy to
remember and you could use itanytime you're overthinking
something, anytime you'veexperienced a mistake or a
disappointment, or you'refrustrated, or you're beating
yourself up, and the tool goeslike this the first thing you
(43:01):
want to do is ask yourself whatdid I learn?
And you want to do it with aprompt like next time I will,
because you can't do anythingabout what just happened, like
it's done right.
And this is really importantbecause if you choose the same
(43:21):
phrase or action every time, itstrengthens a new neural pathway
so you're less likely tooverthink.
You know, ryan, I call myself arecovering overthinker.
I used to overthink all thetime and it's fascinating when
I'm in the corporate space and Ido keynotes, and even today,
when I was with an athletic team, I asked them like, what
(43:49):
percentage of you areoverthinkers?
And like almost 90% of peopleraise their hand, it's
fascinating and the other 10%are just like overthinking if
they should raise their hand ornot.
I just find, like most peopleoverthink, so you want to use
the same phrase or action, andthat what I do is I say how fast
, that fast.
You know, kind of snap.
You might pretend to flush atoilet that's what some people
(44:11):
do.
You might brush it off, youmight say next play or be
present, but the thing is youwant to choose the same phrase
or action to move on Again.
It grows that muscle in yourbrain and then the last part is
to return and that means buildyourself back up.
So a few days ago I was workingwith an athletic team and the
(44:36):
presentation went just a littlebit longer than I wanted to and
I noticed myself, even thoughthat the first like 50 minutes
was phenomenal.
You know, afterwards I was justlike Sindra, you should have
known better, you should havecut this, you should have did
this Right.
And as I was laying in bed Iwas just like ruminating on that
and I'm like that is nothelpful, because you just made
(44:56):
this incredible impact on thisteam and now you're just
thinking about.
You know you're beatingyourself up.
So I thought, okay, what wouldI do differently next time?
Next time I would cut thissection.
All right, burn it, let it gothat fast.
Return means build yourconfidence back up and that
means like telling myself I'mreally great at this, I made a
(45:17):
positive impact with this team.
I'm so grateful for theopportunity.
You know and I know you.
I know you might learn and burn, but you don't return.
You don't build yourself backup after a disappointment or a
setback.
And, as Ryan, as you thinkabout the question you asked me,
like, what do the world's bestdo differently?
They don't let themselves getin that downward spiral.
(45:39):
They pick themselves back up,even after a mistake or
disappointment, and they'rereminding themselves like I'm
meant to be on this field.
You know, this is my passion,I'm great at this, you know, and
no matter if you're on thefield or in your life.
Like just reminding yourselfthis is what you're meant to do
also allows you to, like,continue to reset and that's so
(46:01):
important to move on that fastand reset our muscle.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah, wow, yeah, absolutely.
So it's a great tool, from whatI hear, to get to, to get back
to center and, hey, we're goingto not everything's going to go
our way.
We might make mistakes, whichreally that just means we're
going to create opportunitiesthat we didn't foresee and we
move forward and that's what wedo.
(46:27):
So, sindra, you actually get tobe the first person that I get
to create this conversation with, so I recently started
exploring, as I was thinkingabout the business and the
podcast and life.
There are a lot of topics thatwe talk about that can be
(46:48):
defined so many different ways.
Take even confidence andmotivation.
What it means to you might becompletely different to what it
means to somebody else.
Same for motivation.
Now, when we think aboutwinning, I launched a newsletter
recently called Winning IsBecause how I define winning and
how you define winning may bedifferent, but through our
(47:11):
varying perspectives, we may begiving somebody a tool or
helping unlock a new thoughtpattern that can help somebody
gain higher performance or thatmental edge.
So if I ask you, what iswinning to you?
Winning is dot, dot, dot.
What does that blank look likefor you?
Speaker 1 (47:32):
I think of two answers.
I think winning is being yourbest consistently, because
winning is actually somethingyou can't control, but you can
control how you show up.
And I also think of winning asthis acronym.
What's important now?
And I like that acronym becauseyou can't be your best if
(47:56):
you're not in the present moment, and you know we only spend 47%
of our time in the presentmoment.
53% of our time is we'refocused on something other than
what we're doing, which is veryscary.
You know that study wasconducted by two Harvard
professors and it's like what'simportant now?
(48:16):
Can you be your best more often?
That's what I think winning is,because we ultimately can't
control the outcome of the gameor the outcome of if you get
that promotion or not.
It's out of your control.
You can control showing up asyour very best.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
How do you believe how you just defined winning
today would have looked like ifwe asked the Sindra that was
running at iowa and was the bestof the best and then went to
college and found out oh wow,we're around a lot of people
(48:53):
that are also the best of thebest.
What do you believe thedifference, if there is one,
would have been in that response?
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I think it's very different.
I think I spent most of myfocus on the outcome in college
and I was so outcome focused,like I wanted to run a certain
time or I wanted to get in thetop five or the top three, and I
defined my identity by myoutcome and that's ultimately
(49:22):
like why I think I struggled andwhy I.
You know it was a lot, therewas a lot of inner limits for me
at the time, like constantcomparison, constant judgment,
but I wish that I would havefocused on the small steps to
get there and I wish I wouldhave, like I wish I um evaluated
my own success based on myprocess.
(49:44):
You know, like, can I umimplement my race plan?
Can I talk to myself powerfullyin the race?
Can I um, you know, give mybest effort?
Those are all the things Icould control, and I think most
of my college career I wasfocused on things I could not
control and that's why I justkept on being in that downward
(50:06):
spiral, you know.
And so I think syndrome,college syndrome, thinks very
differently than you know,professional syndrome right now,
and I think those are things Ijust had to learn and you know
so much of.
I think our identity can be tiedup into, like the outcome and
(50:27):
the outcome is completely out ofyour control.
Did I get a standing ovation?
Okay, that meant I did reallygood, but now it's like my only
judgment of myself, or mykeynotes, is like did I show up
(50:49):
fully as Cendra Kampoff today?
And if I showed up fully asCendra Kampoff, like that's what
my definition of success is?
Because when I show up fully asCendra Kampoff, you know with
you, ryan, and you show up fullyas Ryan, you know, then there's
no barriers to connection andthat's where we can make the
most impact.
When our true authentic self sothat's how I define success now
(51:12):
is like can I show up as mytrue authentic self, you know,
moment after moment, which canbe difficult, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Yeah, part of why I'm so curious and about this
question and this conversationaround winning is that I'm
seeing more of a shift, in thatit's not so binary and it's not
as outcome driven as we believeit may be or as the word may
(51:43):
appear to be.
As you mentioned before and I'mwith you as well winning
certainly would have been tiedto a scoreboard or some sort of
outcome, but now it's somethingmuch deeper.
For you, it's with presence.
For me, it's being in constantcreation and alignment with my
(52:04):
goals and values, and constantcreation of powerful
conversations like this,constant creation of meaningful
experiences with people in theworld.
And 22 year old Ryan 10 yearsago would have said something
completely different.
So one last bit on this is ifsomeone, if you were to give
(52:25):
someone one piece of advice asto how they could define what
winning is for their life, whatwould that be?
Speaker 1 (52:32):
A piece of advice would be to think about what
definition would propel youforward and to use that
definition when you think aboutwhat.
Do you really need winning tobe like to be your best?
What does that mean to you?
And I would just give themadvice to say be careful that
(52:52):
it's not the outcome, becauseyou can't ultimately control if
you can reach that outcome.
And we know, ryan, that some ofthe world's best athletes, for
example, they do have outcomegoals, like they want to make it
to the Olympics or they want tomake it to the Super Bowl.
And I would also say is youknow, they have other goals
(53:13):
along with those and they usethose goals to like, motivate
them, those outcome goals, butevery day they focus on what
they can control.
So I would say consider yourdefinition of success and
winning to be something you cancontrol, because that's going to
get you further along and keepyou more motivated.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Amen to that, sandra.
There's a couple different waysthat we can work with you and
keep up with you.
You are offering an amazingopportunity for folks to take
advantage of a breakthrough.
Call with you and the team atthe Mentally Strong Institute.
Talk through how we could takeadvantage of that opportunity,
(53:59):
in addition to some otherexciting ways that we can work
with you.
Support you and the MentallyStrong Institute.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Thank you, ryan.
That's very nice of you to ask.
I'm offering anyone who islistening and who was moved by
the conversation today to headover to
freementalbreakthroughcallcom,and that's where you can sign up
for a free breakthrough callwith myself or one of my team
members at Mentally Strong, andwhat we do is we help people get
(54:29):
to their goals quicker and toincrease their influence and to
grow their confidence.
So we'll talk about thispodcast and what you learned
from it to help you reallysolidify some things that you
can use to move forward.
So again, that'sfreementalbreakthroughcallcom,
and at the Mentally StrongInstitute, we offer one-on-one
coaching, we offer keynotespeaking and training, and then
(54:52):
we also offer this amazingopportunity to become certified
in my work and it's called theMentally Strong Coach
Certification and it's forpeople who want to learn more
about coaching.
Maybe they want to bringcoaching into their team and
maybe they're a leader and theywant to get better at coaching
(55:14):
their team members, or they'rean athletic coach, or maybe
you're just interested ingaining the skills of coaching.
And so we have a new cohortstarting September 8th.
That, ryan, is going to beamazing.
This is our fourth cohort andI've loved every single cohort
and they get like ongoingtraining from me every month too
, which is really cool, and so,even if you're listening to this
(55:37):
, after September 8th, when ournext cohort is, we offer a
couple of different cohortsevery year and you can learn
more again if you just go tomentallystronginstitutecom and
click on certification, or youcan just jump on a call with us
at freementalbreakthroughcallcomand we can chat with you about
it and answer any of yourquestions.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
I highly recommend that folks take advantage of
this opportunity and keep intouch with Sindra and follow
along with what's going on withthe institute.
There is amazing work.
I've signed up for theconfidence course and was
walking through the video beforewe jumped on and that's a three
(56:22):
video series course thatanybody can also get for free.
And start taking advantage andreally take the tools and
frameworks that Sandra and Ihave briefly gone over today and
incorporate that into your life.
Sandra, I have one closingquestion for you, and that's
this what's one step that we cantake today to move ourselves
(56:49):
closer to our goals?
Speaker 1 (56:50):
The one step you can take is let's go back to your
opening quote.
If your dreams don't scare you,they aren't big enough, and I
know that you are moved in thisconversation in some way to
dream a little bit bigger, andI'm going to encourage you to
write that big dream down.
And then I want you, every day,just to take little steps to
get towards that dream.
And when people say, you know,no, that's not possible for you,
(57:14):
I want you to remind yourselfof why it is possible for you,
Because anything's possible,right, and keep that focus top
of mind and look at that goalevery day and imagine yourself
reaching that goal, because youcan do it.
And then think about you know,what do you need to believe
about yourself to reach thatgoal?
So I would say keep dreaming bigand keep going after that big,
(57:37):
courageous dream, because whenyou get there, it's going to be
incredible, the best thingyou've ever done.
And, brian, I would also justlike because when you get there,
it's going to be incredible,the best thing you've ever done.
And, brian, I would also justlike to give you some love here.
Like you are amazing at askingme just amazing questions, I can
tell that you prepared so wellfor this interview and you did
your research, and that doesn'talways happen.
(57:58):
So I just want to say thank youso much for having me and for
your listeners.
I can see why they keep tuningin every episode because you
know you're such thoughtfulquestions that really go deep
and not are so superficial.
So keep it up and everyone keeplistening to Ryan's podcast.
Speaker 2 (58:18):
Thanks so much.
Sindra and everybody, dream big, run towards the things that
scare you, the things that,rather, on the other side of the
things that we don't want to door that we're scared of, is the
best and better version ofourselves that will help us win
(58:38):
today.
Thank you so much.
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