What happens when the ocean tries to break you? Within hours of launching his solo Atlantic row, Damian Browne—former professional rugby player turned world-record-holding adventurer—was seasick, cramping, and drifting backward. Then he caught his thoughts and asked three simple questions: What are you here to do? How do you do it? Then do it. That mental switch became the blueprint that carried him thousands of miles across the Atlantic, completely alone and without a functioning rudder.
In this episode, Damian unpacks the Ironmind philosophy—the mindset system that turns fear into focus and suffering into strength. We explore the Four Controllables he teaches at the Ironmind Institute: body position and technique, breath, effort, and self-talk. Through real stories from the open ocean, Damian shows how to re-enter the present moment when chaos hits, and how voluntary adversity builds self-trust, self-respect, and resilience.
You’ll also hear about his next mission: a run around Ireland to raise one million euros for charity—with open community miles each morning so others can join the journey. This is more than a story of endurance; it’s a lesson in how to lead yourself when everything else falls apart.
Connect with Damian:
ironmindinstitute.com
@auld_stock
Thank you for tuning in! If you feel led, please subscribe & share the show to others who you believe would benefit from it.
Keep in touch below!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
And I just had this moment, like this moment of
self-awareness, where I Irecognized the destruction that
I was heaping onto myself.
And that moment just gave meenough of a gap to say, just sit
down for a couple of minutes andget a bit of space, right?
So I sat down on the seat, stillpitch black, still waves
(00:23):
everywhere.
And I asked myself threequestions.
So, what are you here to do?
Row the Atlantic, but how do yourow the Atlantic?
And my answer to myself was,Well, you fucking roll.
That's it.
And you're not rowing.
Like, and what isn't what goodis another minute or hour or six
hours or a day spent here kindof lamenting everything that's
(00:46):
gone wrong and feeling sorry andasking questions.
And that doesn't do anything.
If you want to row the Atlantic,that is fuck all good to you.
So I just started to roll.
I rode for seven hours withoutcoming off the oars, seven hours
straight, and I I made 10 miles.
Um put that in context, if yourode on in average conditions
(01:09):
for seven hours, you'd probablymake 25 miles.
So I was going basicallynowhere.
I took 45 minutes off to see ifI could get some food into me
and hold it down because Ihadn't eaten in about 20 hours.
Um I was able to get a shake andthen I rode again for another
seven hours.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
Do hard things, help one person, be good and do good.
Live a life of discipline, andyou'll always win.
You have all the tools that youneed to succeed.
Welcome to Win Today.
SPEAKER_02 (01:45):
Thank you so much for tuning in.
My name is Ryan Cass, and I'myour host.
My purpose in this world is tohelp push people further and
harder than they believepossible and become unshakable
in what matters most to them intheir lives.
Every week, you're going tolearn from either myself or
renowned experts in their field,and we're going to unveil pieces
of our playbook to help you wintoday.
(02:07):
Please, if you love this show,subscribe and share it with
somebody that will benefit fromit.
Let's dig in.
Life is a fight.
That is the philosophy that ourincredible guest possesses.
And if anybody knows how to getthrough a fight, it is Damian
(02:30):
Brown.
He has fought countless battlesas an Irish pro-rugby player, as
a Guinness World Record holderthat has challenged his limits
rowing across the Atlantic Oceanmultiple times, most notably
from New York City all the wayto Ireland.
(02:50):
And as the leader of the IronMan, Iron Mind Institute, where
he teaches people how to buildunshakable discipline and become
relentless in the pursuit oftheir goals and ultimate dreams.
Damien, it's an honor to haveyou on the show and thanks for
(03:11):
joining us all the way fromIreland.
SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
Brian, thanks for having me.
I appreciate the invite.
Great to be here.
(03:42):
So it's shifted a little bitover the years.
Um for many years it was um toquote the famous Delphic
inscription on the walls of thetemple, um, the Apollo temple,
know thyself.
So it was about figuring out whoI was.
And I can I can look youstraight in the eye here and
(04:07):
say, I went to the depths of mysoul to find out who that person
was.
And I'm not saying that hasfinished, it hasn't.
I I will always be driven to gofurther internally and
externally, to exploreinternally and externally.
However, uh more recently in thelast maybe three, four, five
(04:27):
years, I feel that there's beena kind of a shift towards
service within me.
Um and you know, from my ownreadings, I understand that is
part of you knowself-actualization.
Um yeah, I've I've I've put alot of time now into using what
(04:49):
I've learned, um, sharing whatI've learned, trying to pass
that on to the best of myability so others can hopefully
um access new frontiers withinthemselves, access new um ways
(05:10):
of experiencing life through umpathways that I've cut myself
just by putting my head down.
And with great grit and tenacityand belligerence and drive, kind
of found a way to get to where Iam.
You know, it's not been pretty,um, but I suppose that's the
(05:30):
point, right?
Um uh or that's where the realgood stuff comes from, is from
the ugly side, from the shadowstuff.
So so yeah, that's that's whereI'm at right now.
I really want to I want to umwant to use what I have
discovered to impact others, andI feel if I impact them well, um
the world will be a little bitbetter, you know, a little bit
(05:54):
better place.
And uh I could I could die inthe morning happy knowing that
that's what I spent my timedoing.
SPEAKER_02 (06:03):
I appreciate the the humility that comes out in how
you said all of that.
And for us extreme adventurersand the ones that I get the
opportunity to speak with thatreally want to draw the best out
of others, as you said, but notjust draw it out of them, but do
(06:26):
so by exemplifying you going onthe journey yourself, leading by
the way.
What's the genesis of that foryou, Damien?
What cultivated this sense ofadventure and never-ending
pursuit to really see what do wehave inside of us?
SPEAKER_00 (06:53):
I could I'll tell you a story.
Um so I was 15 years old, I waswatching the Rugby World Cup.
Uh so rugby union is is mysport, it was my sport, and I
was um I lived about 10 minutesfrom my local rugby club.
(07:14):
Most of the kids around thestreets that I lived on um
played up in the rugby club,which is called Goegion.
So I'm 15, I'm I'm I've beenignited by this sport, you know,
I love it, but I I I this momentis the one where it just takes
off.
And I'm watching um the AllBlacks, Ireland versus the All
Blacks, the first game of the 95World Cup, and Ireland score
(07:38):
first, like the Irish rugby teamback then are not the Irish
rugby team they were now.
So this was totally unexpected.
Like I was off the couch with myfather screaming, you know,
Ireland are beating the AllBlacks in the first game of the
World Cup.
Anyway, the All Blacks come backand um and dominate for the next
75 minutes or whatever it was,and uh most of that domination
(07:59):
was by uh a winger called JoanAlomu, and I remember just being
absolutely transfixed by thiskid.
He was like four years olderthan me at that point, he was 19
years old.
He was a he was about 265, 270pounds, uh Maori boy, uh
Polynesian boy, and he just waslike taking the world by storm.
(08:24):
He was running over half theIrish team, and I just remember
like it was Bohemut, like and Ithat was my kind of ignition, I
suppose, point.
And then um a couple of yearslater, obsessed with rugby at
this point.
I'm coming off my school's rugbyseason, um, not having played a
(08:45):
game.
So that's like the equivalent ofyou know, um uh the I had one
more year left in high school,one more year left in secondary
school, as we call it here inIreland.
Um, so um at that point in yourlife, like I wasn't particularly
academic.
Um I learned through doing, Ilearned through sport more than
(09:08):
anything, movement, I suppose,play.
And um, and now here I wascoming off my school.
The thing that was mostimportant to me in life, and I
hadn't played a minute of agame, and I I just had this um
moment where it all hit me, likeit all the reality of it all
(09:31):
coursed through me, and I feltall of this deep negativity,
like embarrassment, um,disappointment, shame.
I felt like this deep shamebecause what I had seen was
somebody who was just actinglike a waster, you know.
(09:56):
And um, it was that moment whereI somehow was able to kind of
funnel those emotions, uh asmatter as kind of deep and dark
as they were on my very umyouthful mind.
I was able to funnel them into adecision that changed my life,
and that decision was, or thequestion I asked myself at least
(10:20):
was well, what are you gonna doabout it?
What are you gonna do aboutthis?
You didn't play a minute of theyear of rugby this year with
your school?
Well, what are you gonna doabout it?
What what's the problem here?
And the problem was I wasoverweight, I wasn't fit, I was
lazy, I was um I wasn't doingthe work.
So I didn't know much about likeyou know, it's not like today
(10:43):
where I mean you could get afull training program at the
touch of a button.
Um back in this was 1997, so allI knew really was that people go
run um if they want to get fit.
So I went up to Gowegians,walked up half eleven at night.
I went up at that time because Iwas embarrassed to be seen.
(11:06):
That's how this is how this iswhat this experience was to me.
I didn't I wanted to do it, butthere was this wrestle inside
me.
I didn't want anybody to see medoing it because I was I was
ashamed of the place I was at.
But half eleven at night wentup.
It was a manky night pissing outof the heavens here in Ireland,
like stormy, and uh I I ranaround that pitch for two and a
(11:30):
half laps, and every step wasbasically there was resistance,
there was like stop, stop, stop,but I persevered for two and a
half laps.
That's how one fit I was, andthen I was back the next night,
and the next night, and the nextnight, and I was back every
night for like about 30 nightsstraight.
I ran um laps around that pitch,and and that was that was the
(11:53):
genesis of it all.
That was where I learned thevalue in the work, the value in
pushing yourself.
The because every night I walkedback to my parents' house, I
felt a little bit better aboutmyself, I had a little bit more
confidence, I had a little bitmore respect for myself, I had a
(12:17):
little bit more belief inmyself, and every night I I
walked down, I had the samefeeling, and I couldn't, of
course, at the time I didn'tknow I wasn't able to say any of
this, I didn't understand it,but I could feel it, and it was
driving me back, and it was thatdecision that decision to do
something about um somethingthat was within my control, so
(12:41):
it was to take responsibilityfor my fitness and go and do
something about it.
So that that was just that wasthe genesis, that was
life-changing because withresponsibility brought
commitment, with commitmentbrought work, with work brought
the ability to persevere.
Um and through all of that, thenthere was just these amazing
rewards.
So I was I was rewardedinternally, you know, through
(13:05):
all those things.
You know, I started to trustmyself, I started to believe in
myself, I started to respectmyself, I had a uh um an
increase in the worth I felt.
I was actually I wasn't thisperson who should be ashamed.
I was I was more right, and thenexternally I had amazing I had
amazing rewards because Iactually started to play some
(13:27):
good rugby, and so much so thatI went in a span of two years, I
went from not playing for myschool, which is uh under 18s,
right?
Not playing for my school toplaying senior professional
men's rugby inside two years,and that was just because I got
fit.
Um it was just because I wentand ran laps, and I didn't give
(13:49):
up on myself when I ran thoselaps, and I didn't I didn't um
withdraw because of the feelingsI felt, the resistance, the
weakness, the doubt.
I didn't I I I had I had made adecision and the commitment to
that decision just drove me pastall of that shit.
(14:10):
And that touched me so deeplythat you know I've I've made up
my life.
I've I can't now it wasreinforced and reinforced and
reinforced all through many,many years.
Like firstly, the challenges ofprofessional rugby, and then
challenges I started to setmyself.
The same thing was reinforced,you know.
You every time you do somethingreally hard, that's incredibly
(14:33):
difficult and brings states thatare you know hard to get
through.
Uh you have these, you have thethe equal, the rep reciprocal
rewards.
And um, so when I kind of cameout of professional rugby, I was
still exploring myself for alittle while, but it then it
came to a point where, right,well, you know, as Louis Simmons
(14:54):
from West Side Barbel said,don't be a Ronin.
You know, a Ronin is somebodywho has all this knowledge who
doesn't share it, whereas thesamurai shares it.
So don't be a Ronin, share it.
So that's what I've that's whatthat's where it's kind of
stemmed from.
SPEAKER_02 (15:09):
Wow.
So going all the way back towatching the all blacks play
with your dad against the Irishnational team to then I would
say perhaps even while you'reexperiencing that moment, you
saw yourself on a pitch likethat someday, yet the work you
(15:31):
were putting in didn't equate tocreating that opportunity yet.
Uh one of my favorite books isLegacy, and it's about the all
blacks.
And I have a I have a big bucketlist uh for life life
experiences and a lot ofsporting events too.
And even though rugby's not uhbig here in the States, I I
(15:55):
really appreciate the the aurathat it that it has in Europe
and I wrote down to go to anall-blacks game someday just
because of the tradition ofdiscipline and camaraderie.
(16:16):
I love that after every gamethat they clean the locker room,
they clean the stadium, andthat's just who they are and
what they do.
And thinking back the what yousaid about the work is really
beautiful because nobody canescape doing the work.
We can hope and wish and dreamand see ourselves on the pitch
(16:39):
of a big title game, but if ourwork doesn't amount to, or
rather, if our work doesn'tequate to to that, it's just
gonna stay a hope and a wish anda dream.
Was there a particular day ormoment, Damien, where you know
you're you're taking thesenightly runs, you're getting
(17:02):
better, you're starting tocreate this sense of belief in
yourself, you're seeing someoutward recognition.
Was there a particular momentwhere then you flip the switch
in your mind that you're likeall right, I've got this?
Or is that something that maybedidn't take place in your mind?
(17:25):
It just you just kept doing thework and good things started
happening.
SPEAKER_00 (17:32):
The power of responsibility cannot be
overestimated.
It's an extraordinary choice tomake.
Um and and that moment where Idecided that I took ownership of
the situation, that's where itall changed.
So that that's the hardestthing.
(17:54):
It's it's getting around totruly making that decision.
It's almost all downhill fromthere.
Then you just gotta go and dothe work.
Like, but that but that onceyou've once you've made that
decision, the work becomessomething different.
It's not a chore, it's uh it's apathway.
(18:15):
And the kind of deeper you go,the further you go on that
pathway, the the more enrichingand enlightening and empowering
the experience of the workyou're doing.
So it becomes this beautiful umthis beautiful kind of circular
(18:36):
um uh path of rewards, you know,the further you go, the more,
the deeper the experience youget.
So so that was the thing thatdrove me more than anything.
I never really remember a point.
I just remember that the theseum the the experience been so
(18:59):
rich that despite what I feltduring it, there was no way that
I was not going to go back andgo again and again and again.
Um now the the fact that I um II started to gain some sort of
(19:21):
um recognition um because of thework, like that very much
helped.
I think when you're a whenyou're a man and or a boy at
this point I was, but the samething stands like when when you
start to be looked up to by yourpeers, like your your teammates,
(19:44):
because of the uh impact you'rehaving on the team and the game,
like that's a that's anintoxicating feeling.
Um so that so that that thatalso played into the momentum, I
suppose, I had that like you'vefound this way of living, and
(20:07):
it's accelerating the more youdo it, the more you want to do
it because of that kind ofmomentum that's building up from
the rewards that you're gettingbecause of the work you're
putting in.
And um and in a in a way I'venever really stopped.
Um you know, I I do I do stopfor periods as such.
(20:30):
Like if I come off the back of abig adventure now, I I I give
myself time and space away fromthat way of living, it just
wouldn't be I don't it would it,I mean it's an intuitive thing,
but you know, it doesn'twouldn't make sense either if
you thought about it logicallyum to to be jumping back into it
(20:51):
because it's it's an incrediblydemanding way of living and it's
incredibly pressurized.
Um you know, when you we get tothe end of a a big, big, big
challenge that you know was wastrue challenge at all of the
elements of genuine and truechallenge, you know, the the
(21:11):
last thing you need to be doingis rolling back into another one
of them.
So it's not like this incessant,well, I suppose in a way it is
quite incessant, but it's notlike I never stop.
There is pockets of time andwindows of time.
But generally, I you know, Ibuilt that mindset.
I built uh I built that um uh Ibuilt my kind of operating
(21:35):
beliefs during those 30 nightsand over the years have
continued that just deepened anddeepened, and I still operate in
all those same places, thosesame beliefs, those same
mindsets that that were firstkind of created in those 30
nights running around the pitch.
SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
A lot of your adventures that you seek out and
complete today take you very fardistances in lengthy amounts of
time, days, sometimes weeks,even months when you're thinking
(22:14):
through the next adventure thatyou're gonna go on.
What does that process looklike?
How does someone go from playingrugby to then deciding to row
across the Atlantic to climbMount Everest to compete and
complete the world's hardestrunning race across the Sahara
(22:36):
Desert, fully self-supported?
What does that look like for foryou and how do you ultimately
then choose okay, that's thething that I'm gonna go and do?
SPEAKER_00 (22:48):
When I was playing rugby, um again, it comes back
to the responsibility piece.
So when I was playing rugby, Itook full responsibility for my
training, my preparation, and myperformance.
Um and that meant that I hadthis um focus on those things.
(23:14):
I I was going, I was I wanted tobe better.
I I've always had this mindsetof furtherance.
How can I be better?
What do I need to do?
Um, and that mindset, thatcuriosity brought me outside
rugby.
Like, so I can have a good viewof what everyone in rugby is
(23:35):
doing.
I'm I'm training in theseenvironments every day, but what
are other people doing and howcan I use that to be better?
So uh throughout my career, Iwas you know reading a lot.
Uh, it was kind of before therewas podcasts and um audiobooks
on these things.
So I was I was doing a lot ofreading, be it magazines or
(23:58):
books on adventures, on whatpeople were doing to train.
And that was a that was quite aspectrum of like uh of um
methodologies.
So I was into like looking atwhat the bodybuilders were doing
to put on more muscle, lookingat what the best power lifters
in the world were doing to bestronger, and I was looking at
what the best endurance athleteswere doing to endure, and I was
(24:22):
like, Well, how can I use thatto be a better rugby player?
So through that kind of uhcuriosity, I discovered like
that there's people, there's arace in the Sahara Desert where
people run for six days, 250kilometers self-supported.
I was like, whatever.
I I don't know what it was, butthere was a deep draw, there was
(24:44):
a deep knowing in me straightaway.
It's like I'm gonna do thatsomeday.
Um, I've I read a book about uhtwo British um adventurers, one
Ben Fogle is his name, TVpresenter, and the other one was
uh an ex-Olympic rower, JamesCracknell, called The Crossing.
The book is called The Crossing.
And this is the first time Ifound out that people row across
(25:05):
the Atlantic, and I was like,wow.
So I I I found these thingsduring my rugby career, and I
almost put them on a list, likeI put them in a kind of
cognitive box like that for I'llopen that after rugby.
Um, so as I kind of got closerand closer to the end of my
career, um, those things startedto come more and more into my
(25:26):
attention.
And um, you know, when it wasclear that I was going to
retire, um, that's what I wantedto do.
I I I kind of I had prepared forabout seven or eight years to
give myself a window of timepost-rugby to explore those
things.
Um, and when I mean prepare, Imean prepare financially.
(25:48):
So I just started saving likemoney, putting a uh um a
percentage of my wage away everymonth, so that like the only
thing I knew was the you mightwant to roll across the
Atlantic, but it costs a bunchof money and nobody's gonna pay
you to do it.
So I was like, well, you bet ifyou want to do it, you better be
(26:08):
prepared, right?
So so that's kind of what itlooked like.
Uh I I gave myself a five fiveyears.
Um, and speaking of goals, uhyou know, through the your rugby
career, like you kind ofinstitutionalize to set goals.
So you'd be setting everythingdown to daily goals to to um
yearly goals.
And I had um I had goals listsat that point when I was
(26:33):
retiring that I went back to andreferred to, and they were
one-year goals, five-year goals,and lifetime goals.
And from rereading those, I Imade a new goals list and I
entitled it.
I was 35 at this time, Ientitled it before I am 40, I
will.
(26:53):
And I had seven endings to thatsentence.
Before I am 40, I will completethe Martin de Salah.
Before I'm 40, I will row acrossthe Atlantic.
Before I'm 40, I will um climbfive of the seven summits.
Before I'm 40, I will uh raise ahundred you 100,000 euro for
charity.
So um and this was that window.
So I gave myself a five-yearwindow.
(27:15):
I said, I'm gonna do thesethings, that's all I know.
I want to do.
I'm I'm I'm compelled to dothem, I'm I'm heavily drawn to
do them, and I'm ready to try.
So um so that that's kind of howit all came about, uh, from pro
rugby to extreme adventure.
SPEAKER_02 (27:34):
And everything that you wrote down on that piece of
paper is now a reality, right?
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
Yeah, well, I um of the seven I got around to
attempting five of them.
I completed four or so.
Um, and then the other two thatI didn't even get a chance to is
the time frame thing more thanentonces.
You know, I think we alwaysthink we'll we'll do more in a
time frame than I mean thiscomes I see this daily in
(28:05):
myself.
I'll do that, that, that, that,and that.
And I get that, that, and thatdone, right?
So it was the same thing, it wasthe same thing with the the
five-year goal.
Like that I I had basically toomuch um on it.
Um, and then uh yeah, I haven'tgotten back to them yet because
subsequently became a father,and and so one of you an
(28:27):
example.
One of those was I wanted tocycle the Pan American highway
from the tip of Alaska to umBushuya in Argentina.
Um, but I I I wasn't doing itfor the the goal with that
wasn't any type of performancepiece, it was um it was the
adventure, the travel, theintoxicating nature of the
(28:47):
freedom of a bike and stoppingwhere you want and going where
you want and seeing I thinkthere's the I think there's the
guts of like 23 countries alongthat Pan American highway.
So so that was going to take acouple of years, and I was gonna
try and climb the highestmountain in um North America and
South America, so Denali and uhAcankagua.
(29:09):
Um at the same time.
I I got to both of them, I Iclimbed both of them, but not
during the cycle, if you get me.
So uh so it's that like that itthat would still be something
I'd love to do, but um differentphase of life right now.
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
Hearing you say all of that excites me.
Like this is my kind of jamright here, and I know some
folks that are listening are I'mthinking of some particular good
friends right now that are readyto go jump on board with you.
And as you were saying that, Ithought through I love the
(29:45):
adventure you took acrossCambodia, I believe, where you
bought a$50 bicycle and justfound your way through Cambodia,
and then how you also wentthrough Iran literally couch
surfing.
So I love how your adventuresnot only rather I love how your
(30:10):
adventures extend in in somecases beyond the extreme
endurance realm and reallyexploring uh curiosity.
And I and I hear that is a themeas you're as you're speaking and
just researching what you'vedone.
I want to highlight the rowacross the Atlantic for for a
(30:33):
little bit and get you to sharethat journey because I know that
that did not come without itsfair share of curveballs, of
unwarranted surprises.
If I'm not mistaken on day 17you lost steering of your
vessel, you lost a rudder.
(30:54):
I listened to a podcast on day31 where you were woken up by a
330 meter ship that was comingyour way.
So I'd love if you could put usin the put us in the seat for a
little bit with that adventureand some of the challenges and
(31:14):
learnings that you had on onthat experience.
SPEAKER_00 (31:19):
Well I'll start by saying there's no challenge like
an ocean row it is just umotherworldly in um in what it
demands of you and the strengthyou have to find to get through
it.
So you row oceans in this oakocean rowing craft um they're
(31:42):
roughly seven meters about 21feet long um about two meters
wide um so about seven feet wideand it's got two cabins on
either end so one of them isyour you know it's your refuge
from the madness outside and uhin between and then on the other
side there's a small littlestorage cabin and in between
(32:04):
there's an open rowing deck.
And um yeah by manpower aloneyou try and get across uh
whatever body of water you'reyou know endeavoring to cross
and I had uh discovered um thatthere's a race that takes place
every year across the southernNorth Atlantic so from the
Canary Islands to Antigua andthe Caribbean um called uh at
(32:29):
that time it was called theTalisker Whiskey Atlantic
Challenge and uh um there wassomething extraordinarily
compelling um for me in that Iwas just like obsessed with this
undertaking I think there'ssomething really beautiful about
(32:53):
doing something by manpoweralone something that is um you
know of a different millenniayou know that just like there's
so many other means of doing itnow but there's something really
pure and free and beautifulabout doing it yourself just by
(33:13):
manpower alone.
So um so I had no clue like whenI first um committed to this
undertaking I had like zero ideaof really what I was going into
because I had no maritimeexperience no real rowing
experience even though we do alot of we do a lot of row work
(33:33):
on the indoor roar inprofessional rugby especially my
position it keeps you off yourfeet we do call it off e
conditioning so less wear andtear in your body so I knew I
was I was decent at the on theindoor roar um but I had never
been in a a rowing boat I'dnever been in an ocean rowing
boat and uh the third element ofme being completely out of my
(33:55):
depth excuse the pun was Icouldn't swim I still can't swim
so um so you know you would uhyou would think that I would
stay away from ocean rowingrather I kind of I I I rushed
towards it um and just figuredit out right I just I had no
clue but I worked it out as Iwent and I tried not to look
(34:16):
stupid in front of people whoknew a lot more than me you know
I was a bit of fake it till youmake it and I felt like an
imposter most of the time but ifit means enough to you you
figure it out and you find a wayto make it happen.
So uh so yeah I I joined thisrace and I prepared for about 19
(34:38):
months.
So um I suppose my wheelhouse isin the physical and mental side
of it like that's kind of mybackground and and and that's my
purpose and passion.
And then the technical side Ijust had to learn as I went and
um and eventually I got to thestart line um uh a very
(34:58):
determined individual like um tothe point of delusionment where
where I was in a race with 25other boats um I was a solo so
there was five man boats four orfive person boats four person
boats three person boats pairsand then at the back of that
fleet was um five solo rowers umand I delute like I said
(35:23):
delusionment I thought I couldactually win that race um so um
because I knew I knew liketechnically I'm the best rower
like as in like I can like I II'm I'm I can go on those indoor
row machines like there's nobodybeating me but it's it's got
little crossover to the actualact of rowing an ocean um but I
(35:44):
took off out of the blocks uh Iwas the last boat to leave from
the Canary Islands so they leavekind of in five minute intervals
and I just got the luck of thedraw that I was the very last
boat to leave.
But it just heightened mydetermination and I took out of
the I went out of the blocksfirst six hours I pulled past
about four boats and then I hadthis weird kind of um situation
(36:07):
where the thing I've relied onmy whole life like the thing I
have absolute trust in is in mybody and then it just started to
shut down around me at thatpoint and I was like completely
taken like by surprise I didn'tknow what was happening.
I got seasick I got um blisterson my hands and on my ankles I
(36:29):
had this weird like very verystrange cramping in my lower
limbs like it was it felt likecramp and it was a type of cramp
but I was getting it in like theboth muscle groups so the
antagonistic muscle group so thelike quad and hamstring were
cramping at the same time itdidn't it made no sense like so
(36:53):
I had this very weird um andvery disturbing point in just in
like six well it was maybe sevenor eight hours after starting
that my body was shutting downlike and I didn't couldn't
understand it and I put like 19months of everything I have into
prep and I could see the wholething kind of falling down
(37:14):
around me.
And just at that moment as wellthe tides and the winds changed
so the tide started to go in andthe wind started to blow back to
the um the islands so all of asudden I was getting sucked back
to the islands for now I was notonly was my body shut down but I
was had this kind of situationwhere the boat was getting
(37:34):
pulled back so it seemed likethe whole thing was just going
to go down in flames um thereand then and I was so
discombobulated I was I had veryI struggled to make sense of it
all but I I I said to myself soyou can keep rowing but you're
not going to give yourself a amoment to um you're not gonna
give your body a moment tohopefully have some level of
(37:58):
recovery or you can go and sleepfor a little bit um but then
you're gonna get blown backfurther.
So that's what I decided to do.
I just slept um 45 minutes onthe alarm clock got up I've been
blown back a mile um like thatmight like now that I've I've
kind of spent a lot of timemotion rowing like that's
(38:19):
nothing but at the time it feltlike I I 100 miles I was like
disaster um so hopped back onthe oars I made um a mental
point to get back to which wasuh where I where I had been
which was a a certain distanceto waypoint so it was 48 point
48 point three kilometers ormiles to the next waypoint which
(38:43):
is how you plot your way acrossthe ocean basically coordinates
so at that point I was whateverI was a mile back 49.3 so I said
I'll get back to where I was andthen I'll put out the thing
called power anchor which islike a an anchor that holds you
in place in the middle of stormsum so I'll put that out because
it'll be night time then and atleast I'll I'll have a I'll put
(39:06):
my head down for the night andtomorrow's a new day right like
this fucking shit show will beover hopefully I'll feel better
and then we can see what we cando about day two on day two.
So uh got back to that point.
Took me three hours rowing intothose tides and into the wind to
get back to where I was uhbefore I went to sleep put out
(39:28):
the power anchor something I'dactually never done before um
just a strange series of eventswithin my preparation I'd
actually never done it like I'ddone the theory that's it um so
put that out and then went tosleep and woke up five hours
later so woke up at about fivein the morning and looked first
thing I did is look at the GPSand I've been blown back two
(39:49):
more miles uh a mile and a halftwo more miles so like I and it
was went outside it was howlingthe wind the waves were getting
pushed over the top of the boatand I'm pulling in this power
anchor going what the fuck am Igoing to do like I I felt a bit
better at least physically butmentally I was completely
(40:10):
completely gone like I wascompletely compromised
completely fragile no I had noum anchor I was just my mind was
everywhere and it was allnegative like and it was coming
at me from every angle you knowI could nearly I could see faces
of people I knew who wanted meto fail or at least that's the
story I was telling myself aboutthem right this is this is what
(40:33):
was happening in those thosedark moments literally and uh
figuratively as I kind ofpulling in that power anchor um
moment like this moment ofself-awareness where I I
recognized the destruction thatI was heaping onto myself and
that moment just gave me enoughof a gap to say just sit down
(40:57):
for a couple of minutes and geta bit of space right so I sat
down on the seat still pitchblack still waves everywhere and
I asked myself three questionsso what are you here to do row
the Atlantic well how do you rowthe Atlantic and my answer to
myself was well you fucking rowthat's it and you're not rowing
(41:19):
like and what is in what good isanother minute or hour or six
hours or a day spent here kindof lamenting everything that's
gone wrong and feeling sorry andasking questions and that
doesn't do anything if you wantto row the Atlantic that is fuck
all good to you so I juststarted to row I rode for seven
hours without coming off theoars seven hours straight and I
(41:42):
I made 10 miles um put that incontext if you rode on in the in
average conditions for sevenhours you'd probably make 25
miles so I was going basicallynowhere I took 45 minutes off to
see if I could get some foodinto me and hold it down because
(42:02):
I hadn't eaten in about 20 hoursum I was able to get a shake and
then I rode again for anotherseven hours so 14 and 15 hours
um and I hadn't gone far but I'dgone far enough in that time to
get the winds had died and theum to get out of the tidal
(42:25):
current where it kind of startsum or well where it's stronger.
So I'd gone far enough and thenI was just able to get away
because of that 14 hours workthat I did um and and the the
moment I can I can I can see Ican or I know that the moment
(42:46):
that that race became a successrather than a failure became a
success rather than it did notfinish was it when I saw my
destructive thoughts when I hadthe awareness to identify and
recognize them because um thatgave me the space to sit down
the space to sit down gave methe quick um um time to ask
(43:08):
myself three questions that wereable to direct me uh and then I
just did the work um and therewas two other boats going
through the exact same thing Iwas going through so uh
backwards forwards two othersolos and um all I know about
them is that they didn't rollfor 14 or 15 hours on uh did
(43:30):
morning of day two and into therest of day two and uh and they
never got they never got outthey never got past those tidal
currents and winds and theirraces were their races were over
they ended up um getting pulledback into the island after three
days of battling these winds andthese currents so um so that was
(43:53):
my baptism of fire into thisextraordinary adventure that
came ahead that as you saidbrought you know on day 14 I had
um a double capsize um in acrazy storm that actually ended
up ending the race of two otherboats as well where they were
(44:15):
capsized one of them had a fireon board so I was capsized twice
during that storm it wasabsolutely like crazy levels of
kind of chaos um on my secondcapsize I was outside on deck I
ended up getting um pushed intothe water when the boat was
capsized by this giant wave andjust before I got into the water
(44:38):
I grabbed onto a handle on thebulkhead of the boat just on one
of the cabin faces and I heldonto it underwater as the boat
went full 306 well 180 degreesunderwater and I was just
hanging on to the boat with onehand going squeeze your grip
squeeze your grip and I got kindof lassoed out of the water by
the self-writing of these boatsthey're designed to self-write
(45:02):
so it was it was just animmensely crazy day as you said
a consequence of that was I hadum complete complete malfunction
of my um steering system soabout three days later that
thing finally cracked and brokeand and unless I had a welder on
board I wasn't going to be ableto fix it so um I had to row the
(45:24):
final well the 2000 miles 2000nautical miles just with I had
to steer the boat um with theoars because I had no other way
my tiller my rower my um um myuh rudder was gone couldn't be
used um and look I was alreadyrowing an ocean in what they
(45:46):
call a traditional shaped oceanrowing craft so um it uses there
is more modern shaped oceanrowing boats that use the wind
more but it didn't that doesn'talign with my values so I I
didn't choose that I chose atraditional shaped boat with
foot steering only so some ofthese boats have autopilots have
(46:09):
um I I went as raw as you can goand now here I was in a
traditional shaped boat with nosteering so it it became like 10
times harder like it's just youhave to try and row the boat
then with the oars or sorrysteer the boat with the oars and
it's incredibly difficult.
Anyway I I I did what I did andI I kept going basically I kept
(46:31):
going I kept rowing I keptanswering that question I asked
myself well how do you row anocean you row you row you row
right and you keep rowing and ifyou keep rowing and something
I've learned and it's a reallyit's uh it's the most simple
thing that ocean rowing taughtme but it's the most righteous
thing is uh wherever you want toget to in life it doesn't matter
(46:54):
if you can point yourself in theright direction and never stop
so in this case never stoprowing you'll get there you'll
get there as long as you candirect yourself and you never
stop pulling on the oars you'llget to where you want to get to
it's the exact same thing inlife um and that's what I did
that's what I did after 63 daysuh I ended up getting to Antigua
(47:18):
without any um without any uhsteering system and it was
extraordinarily difficult Iended up getting like in a
severe case of pressure soresand seesaws because when you
have to steer with the oarsyou're moving around a lot on
the seat and if you're notcleaning yourself diligently
which I wasn't um you start toget the the salt crystals start
(47:39):
to like you know get into yourskin and you get the see the
seesaws and then the pressuresores just from sitting down for
so long every day and it is likeChinese torture.
Like there was moments aroundthe 40s like somewhere around 40
that I I have videos of myselflike shouting into the phone
like because the doubt was bigaround then because sitting down
(48:03):
for 10 minutes was excruciating.
SPEAKER_02 (48:06):
I'm like I need to sit down for 12 hours a day and
row this boat like I can't evensit down for 10 minutes how the
fuck am I going to get itTantiga um you know a kind of
necessity breeds invention endedup kind of creating this like
perch that I put on my seat thatwas uh like a bunch of um yoga
(48:27):
mats that I had glued togetherand then they raised me up
enough and then I was able tocut out holes where I had the
pressure sores in the yoga matsjust to give them some space so
I wasn't sitting on themdirectly and that helped me kind
of get to a point where I wasable to sit down for 12 hours a
day and anyway got the boatTante I don't give short answers
(48:54):
sorry no i i was mentallywatching you on the boat and I'd
love for you to share more aboutjust how unrelenting the ocean
is so we've got the context ofyou've been pushed back a couple
times and you've lost yoursteering you've been capsized
(49:17):
but talk through what what arewe dealing with here do we have
do we have 10 foot 12 foot wavesthat are that are crashing to
our to our left and right andfront and back and what what
type of sound is the oceanmaking what is it are there any
other signs of life are therethe occasional cargo ships or is
(49:39):
it just you and an unrelentingmother nature that is just
pounding you all day long soit's a bit of an white knuckled
experience when you're on decklike so when you come out of the
um cabin the first thing you dois you clip into the boat.
SPEAKER_00 (50:02):
So you have a basically you're wearing either
a climbing harness or a lifejacket and you clip into one
point of contact with the boatbecause you just never know when
a wave is going to come theycall them rogue waves um see
just never know when a point atthat point you know you could
get unlucky and it could get arogue wave and it could capsize
(50:26):
the boat so anytime you're ondeck it it is white knuckled
you're hanging on basically umnow there is calmer days and and
the ocean is um she's moody soshe has her moods like but
generally she has a she's has aa level of challenge within her
(50:46):
that you have to pay alertattentiveness to and if you
don't you are risking a lot soso you you cannot be lazy out
there like you can't be um youcan't relax it's just way too
dangerous um and you have to bevery attentive and very clued
(51:06):
into what you're doing and verypresent and there's there's
something beautiful about thatin itself um and it ranges from
flat cam to 30 40 foot waves solike I have this image that I
will never get out of my mind ofum being um just seeing these
(51:29):
rollers like walls of ocean likecoming along like I could see
them as far as I can see rightand as far as I could see left I
could see these walls of waterand then they'd come and they're
big bulbous things right so I'djust go up the face up up up up
up up and then over the top andthen I'd see another one coming
(51:51):
and about 15 seconds later thisbig huge wave would come and up
over that.
So that was a that like I I'vespent 170 odd days nearly 180
days on ocean running boats andthat's the only time I've ever
seen that it's just likeabsolutely mind blowingly
beautiful and um unique um andthen um you have the chaos of a
(52:17):
storm like where you know it'sjust like the wind is howling
like ferociously and the thewaves are um roaring I suppose
they're grumbling and groaningand when you're in the cabin in
a storm um the noise you you'reso alert right because you're
(52:39):
you're just listening becauseyou know the sound of a wave
that potentially could capsizeyou it it hisses so like it the
wave will break at a certain umspace a certain um distance from
the boat and then the the powerof the break will hiss along the
(53:00):
top of the rest of the ocean andyou're listening for that type
of um potential wave that canpotentially um capsize you and
when you're listening you put umif you hear a coming you put out
all fours when you brace in thecabin for the turn um and then
you can see like low like on theon the more southern route you
(53:26):
have um beautiful clear skiesmost nights so if you look up
into the um like I've been inthe middle of the Sahara there's
nothing like the middle of anocean like the middle of the
Sahara is spectacular but itpales in comparison to the
middle of an ocean like there'sso many stars in the sky on a
clear night in the middle of theAtlantic that when you look up
(53:49):
you can't focus on anythingbecause they they all start to
slightly shimmer there's so manyof them they're just this like
sheath of shimmering stars justand you can't actually like the
the the cletter the trillionsand billions of them you can see
they kind of all join togetherinto this sheet of like
shimmering mass it's absolutelyextraordinary um so you can have
(54:14):
moments like that and then youknow you can have kind of on the
North Atlantic I'll probably getto it but you know you have much
a lot more fog like I I I can Ican remember times where
although I know I'm alone I knowthere's not a ship within three
kilometers of me because on myradar it says there isn't but I
(54:35):
feel claustrophobic because I'mcaught in this bubble of fog
like just around the boat like Ican only see 10 meters that way
10 meters that way and like youalmost feel like I I I might hit
something even though you knowthere's nothing there to hit
like so yeah all sorts ofdifferent experiences and we in
terms of wildlife you can haveeverything from you know the
(54:57):
bird life to um I had the thethe privilege of many whale
encounters including spermwhales um and pods of dolphins
like every day I reckon about 50days straight on the North
Atlantic I had either um acouple of dolphins or a full pod
by the boat like every singleday is and and these moments are
(55:21):
indescribable in how importantthey are to you like then the
the the um explosion of theexperience of connecting with
animals in a million miles froma ticket boot right a million
miles from like somebodycharging you to do it like it's
just in their natural habitatand their curiosity is bringing
(55:43):
them to you and that's that'sthe same with whales a couple of
sharks um dolphins sea turtlesum yeah like beautiful moments
that's as primal as it gets youtalked about the three questions
that you asked yourself when itwas getting really tough and you
(56:04):
know how do you how do you rowacross the Atlantic?
SPEAKER_02 (56:06):
Will you frickin' row as you've encountered those
similar moments and otherchallenges and things that you
do and even if you were to gointo the future into another
challenge you may be taking onwith your actually into this one
million lap challenge aroundIreland that you'll be doing
(56:29):
next year.
When you reach these momentswhat is your typical process or
what questions are you askingyourself then?
Are they the the same three justinstead of how do I row from
here, how do I run aroundIreland will you freaking run?
Or do you have a differentprocess that keeps you moving
(56:49):
forward?
SPEAKER_00 (56:51):
Yeah I I've um I created a methodology around
this um from you know years andyears and years of exploring it
and and pushing um pushing mybody for more and and and you
know through that explorationand human guinea pigging almost
realizing that it's always themind that um that creates the
(57:17):
problem.
It's always the mind that is thebarrier it's not the actual body
so um you know in a in anutshell what you want to what
people want to be thinking aboutwhen it comes to like these
these moments of doubt andnegativity that come up through
physical challenges the firstthing you need to do is get out
of your head and into your bodyso you need to redirect your
(57:40):
attention out of um the um storythat it's telling you the
narrative the the um the mentalum conversation and you need to
reconnect it into your body soso the mythology I call the four
controllables basically thatthere's four actions that are
always within your control nomatter what the situation no
(58:05):
matter how deep the despair isno matter how negative and dark
and destructive the theconversation is if you can
become aware of thatconversation you can change your
experience of what you'reexperiencing so I'm I'm um
having a really bad day on theoars and all I'm thinking about
(58:29):
is how many miles are to go howmany miles I've done um how many
days this is likely going totake me so that that's that
conversation is a a consequenceof where I've let it go to right
I've become outcome orientedI've let my focus go to the
outcome and anytime you'refocused on an outcome the
(58:51):
outcome is not within my controlit's not within your control it
will never be within any of ourcontrol anytime you're focused
on an outcome you're going to benegative there's going to be an
uh a subjective experience thatis going to feel negative and
you can change that uh you canchange it by concentrating and
focusing on an action that'swithin your control so hence the
four controllables so the firstone is body position and
(59:14):
technique that's always withinyour control so in case of if
say I was running my bodyposition and the technique of
running those are always withinmy control so I can try to
redirect my concentration to apart of that a specific part of
my body position or my techniqueand to do that I have and and
(59:39):
just so we're getting into thekind of full um um the full view
of what this method is to dothat I'll have what I call pre
prepared my awareness so I'llhave uh mental resets that are
it like I've readied them forthis moment because I know this
is coming right so so I'm notgoing into This um experience by
(01:00:03):
chance.
I know these are these are partof challenge.
Like you're if you're if you'renot getting them, you're not
pushing yourself.
So um, so they will come up andI'm ready for them.
I'm I've readied my response.
I've readied my response withwhat I call a mental reset or a
mental anchor.
And what those do is they leadmy mind to an action that's
(01:00:24):
within my control.
So um uh an example of a bodyposition and technique one would
be so if you are um if you'rerunning, it would be body
language.
So just saying to myself bodylanguage, it just puts me the
minute I say to myself bodylanguage, it just I I
automatically move into a betterbody position.
(01:00:46):
And once I've made thatconnection, so I've gone from an
external thing into okay,focusing on my body language,
I'm present.
I'm and once I'm present, Icannot be anything else but
present.
I can't be negative, I can't bedoubtful, I can't be happy, I
can't be joyful, I can only bepresent.
(01:01:09):
No emotion can infiltrate thepresent, the the act of being
present, the present if you arefocused and concentrated on
action within your control, yourpresent, no emotion can
infiltrate that.
So um, so I have these mentalresets ready.
Like I was on the my secondocean row from New York to Goa.
(01:01:31):
Um, I had three of them writtenon the side of my cabin.
So the three resets were um, isthis quality work?
Am I concentrating on an actionthat's within my control?
And uh what was the third one?
Um, is this quality work?
Am I cancelling an action withinmy control?
And um oh god, it pumped to me.
(01:01:52):
Uh, but anyway, if you thinkabout is this quality work?
Like that's a an I the minute Iask myself that question, I I do
an audit of my effort.
Um, so third controllable iseffort.
So first one is body positionand technique, second one is
breath, third one is effort, andfourth one is self-talk.
(01:02:13):
So those four things are alwayswithin my control, and I can I
can have a mental reset readyfor one or all of them.
Um, and in this case, on the onthe row, is this quality work?
Oh, is this quality work?
Is my effort honest?
And am I concentrating on anaction?
What's within my control?
The minute I ask myself one ofthose questions, it brings me
(01:02:34):
internally.
So, is this quality work?
So I do this audit on what I amdoing with my body position, my
technique, and my efforts.
And if I identify, and which Iwill, of course, if I identify a
part that is not to a standard,well, then I'm bringing my
concentration to that.
Say it's like um I'm sit, I'mslouched, or I'm my lower back
(01:02:55):
is in extension, or I'm I'm not,um, my stroke is short.
So the minute I identify that,well, then I start to work on
that.
So I'm bringing up say a furtherrange of motion into my stroke.
So I'm I'm I'm present throughmy concentrating on an action
within my control.
And the minute I've done that,I've changed my state.
(01:03:17):
So uh is my effort honest?
So I'm auditing my effort, andof course, we'll always see that
there's always more.
Once we bring our intention, umuh uh intention internally and
and and focus on what we'redoing, we'll see that you know
we're not doing enough.
We're with there's more in us,even if I'm trying to row an
(01:03:39):
ocean and I'm 2,000 miles away,I can still put in a little bit
more effort right now than I amdoing to get to where I want to
get to.
It doesn't mean I'm gonna startsprinting out of the blocks,
right?
But I can always do a little bitmore in that moment.
So so those resets were preparedand they were ready for moments
like that, moments that I knewwere coming.
(01:04:01):
And um, the quicker I can getout of those moments, firstly,
not only do I improve myexperience of life, right?
Because I'm not sitting in likethis negative state of whatever,
it could be minor, it could befrustration, could be agitation,
or it could be it could beextraordinarily challenging,
like this moments of despair.
So I can I get I'm changing myexperience of what I'm
(01:04:22):
experiencing, so so that's good.
And secondly, um I'm uh I'm I'mback in control mentally, and
um, and that self-control isreally important for uh the
outcome we're looking for.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:38):
Yeah, no, and I appreciate the framework there
and the rather the methodologywith the four controllables
because those are absolutelyalways within our reach, no
matter what's going on, whetherit's expected or unexpected.
Damien, we could go more indepth on your adventures, but
I'd rather just talk about whatthat looks like for others and
(01:05:01):
the experiences that you createthrough Iron Mine Institute and
ultimately what it feels liketo, you know, having gone
through these yourself, butultimately to create that in the
lives of others.
So why don't we dive intoIronmind, the vision and mission
(01:05:23):
there?
And then we talked before we gotstarted about something really
exciting you've got coming up uhthrough that.
Uh, believe it's the Masogiexperience for a group of folks
that have been in for a while.
So talk through how you'rechanging lives uh via
experiences.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:44):
So um as you can imagine, I'm a big believer in
challenge and the power ofchallenge and um an exploring
challenge in our lives andself-imposing challenge.
Um that voluntary difficulty,that voluntary adversity, that
voluntary struggle, and theextraordinary rewards that are
(01:06:08):
held in that.
Um so uh when I came off theback of my second ocean row, I
um this was the next place Iwanted to go.
So I I started the Iron MindInstitute so that I could um
dutifully share everything I hadlike not only learned, but like
(01:06:32):
fashioned and forged at thegrindstone of the hardest
challenges on the planet, um,and pass that on to others
because of its enriching, itsempowerment, um its enlightening
kind of essence when you areable to um uh control your
(01:06:55):
response to the mostdebilitating destructive states
that um you can um you canself-impose like that is an
amazing, amazing power to haveas a human, and it translates so
well um into life in terms ofhow you operate.
(01:07:19):
And if you're operating at ahigher level today than you were
yesterday, well, everyone yourub shoulders with is going to
be um uh privileged toexperience that, and it's going
to actually it's going to havean effect on people because of
that energy that you'reemitting.
(01:07:40):
So um, and it it all comes downlike you know, so if we're
challenging ourselves and we'rewe're we're inducing these
moments, so I call them thedecisive moment, we're inducing
this moment.
It's really simple um how we uhcontrol our response to that.
Like it's it's not complicated,but it is really hard to do
(01:08:03):
because of the the essence ofthe experience is is one of you
know um disturbance and umcompromise, but it really comes
down to how you organize yourthoughts, just basically what
you think about.
So that's what we at ouressence, that's what we try to
train into people.
So we put them into compromisedum states mentally through
(01:08:27):
challenge, and um we um we guidethem out of that through our
methodology, through trainingour methodology, through
training or practicing it timeand time again and through
coaching it.
So at the end of these trainingprograms, so we put people
through um we have two levels ofwell, we have three levels of
(01:08:52):
programs.
We have a kind of we have whatwe call an entry level, which is
an eight-week training programwhere we we touch on some of
this, and then we have our kindof our signature program, which
is a 15-week training program,where at the end of that 15
weeks, the participants in theprogram take on a 12-hour, a
(01:09:13):
non-stop 12-hour challenge, andthat's called Sisu, which is
after a Finnish philosophy onhow to live life.
Um and uh about uh six monthsago, we we opened up or well, we
invited a small group of peopleto um our 24-hour crucible
(01:09:37):
challenge, which is calledMasogi.
And that is about to um happenin November.
So it's the first time we'rerunning it.
Um and incredibly excited aboutthat.
I've been coaching these guysnow, as I said, for about six
months, and they're coming rightto the peak of their
preparations, and they're gonnatake on a challenge that is uh
(01:09:59):
extraordinarily difficult.
Um I'm kind of jealous, and I'mkind of not jealous.
You just you know that like it'sgoing to be, you know, I know
it's gonna be incrediblydifficult.
I know they're gonna have uh anamazing experience if they can
get through it.
(01:10:19):
But it's it's very much we we soit's it's not just a test of
endurance, um, it's a test ofmuch more than that.
So we we we do um different kindof energy system training.
So they'll do a lot of speedstuff, some sprint stuff, they
do some strength work, they dosome endure, a lot of endurance
(01:10:39):
stuff.
Um so we come at them from alldifferent angles.
There's there's parts, so wesplit this the we split our
experience into what we callloops, and each loop has the
same sequence.
So they prepare, they'reintroduced to what they're about
to do, they prepare mentally forthat, or we introduce the mental
um the mental prep for that umuh upcoming workout, if you
(01:11:05):
want.
Then we we do an RTT, we'reready to train them, then we do
the actual training part, andthen we do what we call
compensation future prepreflection.
So we reflect on what we were wejust went through, particularly
reflecting on the the mentalfocus that we had for that work,
and then what that looked like,what that you know when the when
(01:11:28):
we met the enemy, what happened,and then how can we get better?
Um you know, when when you'rehaving these, when we are having
these what we call Iron MineCrucible experiences, like
they're there the potential forparadigm shifting uh experiences
are off the charts.
(01:11:50):
So if you if you're lucky, youhave one or two paradigm shifts
a year, right?
And that's only if you'resomebody who's driven to push
themselves.
These guys could have seven,eight in an experience, like so.
That's why the reflection pieceis really important that we link
into what may have come about inthe chaos of challenge and try
and put some semblance of itonto paper that will help
(01:12:13):
accelerate any learning and anyuh clarity around that that we
can get there.
So that's why we have thatreflection piece.
So we have one loop where wecall it a chaos loop, and um,
it's a body of work where theyhave no idea what's coming and
they have no idea when it ends,relatively like obviously they
know at some point it's gonnaend, but you know, that doesn't
(01:12:36):
help them at all when they're inthe maelstrom of the work, like
and when it's coming at them,and they their mind is just
gonna go to a place where wewant it to go to, which is like
outside of any type of control,and then we're gonna guide them
back into it.
And what we're trying to dothrough that guidance is for
them to build the association.
Well, well, okay, when I focusedon that, I felt this in that
(01:13:01):
moment, and that changed rightmy experience.
And when I was thinking aboutthat, or I was thinking about
when this is going to be over, Ifelt like this, and then when I
focused on something else, youknow, I felt something
different.
So you're trying to get them tobuild that association, and like
it's like uh I like to think ofit as a kind of a spider web,
you know, neurologically.
(01:13:23):
And the first time you make it,it's this really thin sliver,
but the connection is made, andif you can have the same
experience again, you addanother sliver to it, and then
over time, if you keep havingthat experience, it becomes
stronger and stronger andstronger and stronger, and the
the connection becomes stronger,so like that information passes
(01:13:45):
in your brain uh much quicker.
So, um, so yeah, that's whatwe're trying to teach, and
that's where we're trying to doit, and that's how we do it
through those what we call well,firstly, the training program,
which is incredibly important,and then what we call crucible
experiences.
Like crucible is like a forge,it's like where they you know,
where they used to uh the um uhmelt and form uh new um
(01:14:10):
substances, so like you canthink of it as this ready red
hot forge as it happens in yourmind, it becomes red hot, it
becomes malleable, and uh andyou can make change through
paradigm shifts.
SPEAKER_02 (01:14:22):
Damien, do you find that most folks that you get to
work with as it relates to theto the mental component of this,
that most of the work is or afair portion of work is spent
uncovering false narratives thatthey've formed from a very young
(01:14:44):
age and perhaps they've beencarrying since their childhood,
whether they're aware of thenarrative or unaware of the
narrative.
SPEAKER_00 (01:14:52):
Yeah, for sure.
Um those limiting beliefs ordisempowering beliefs uh pop up
all the time.
Um and it's mostly inconversation, you know.
So when we're the way we ourprograms are set out, we do
reviews, we call themperformance reviews, but
basically we go back into somenumbers um from their um from
(01:15:18):
the training block.
And you know, we're what we'retrying to do is show them the
progress they've made because itcan be difficult sometimes,
particularly with the way um themachines that we use, the
experience of using them is isone of um uh it's one of
negativity because it's thetraining is so hard, so we can
build negative associations.
(01:15:39):
So what we try and do at the endof a training cycle is go back
in and and get them real clarityon how far they've come and
induce some positive energy fromthat so they can kick on into
the next cycle.
So when you're having thatconversation uh with those with
the participants at that time,we we we often um experience
(01:16:03):
like these uh beliefs that comeup.
Um, thankfully for us, it comesup in a positive light because
they have broken throughsomething through the work, you
know, by by uh leveraging thefour controllables, they're able
to get past some type ofnegativity.
(01:16:24):
That in itself is an eye-openingexperience, like and it changes
people's perspective, it changestheir beliefs, and that's what
we're trying to do, right?
So, you know, we talk a lotabout um the the outcomes of
what we want here are like arereally like metaphysical, like
they're things likeself-respect, self-worth,
(01:16:45):
self-belief, self-trust.
You know, I put myself into thissituation.
It was extraordinarily hard.
Every cell in my body wanted wastelling me to go the other way,
to give up, to quit, to relent,to slow down.
But I control that moment and Iwas able to change my experience
and then able to kick on.
And that is when people havethat experience, like they're
(01:17:06):
like, Well, I mean, if I can dothat, I can why I can do that
again and again.
So they're they're creatingthese paradigm shifts and
they're getting past their ownlimiting beliefs.
Um, and then they're on thepath, right?
SPEAKER_02 (01:17:20):
Right, that's beautiful.
It's self-mastery andself-discovery, I believe, or it
is a beautiful experience withinitself in couple when coupled
with a challenge or a set ofchallenges to the body and mind
(01:17:43):
like what better way to livelife.
And it's something that thatdoesn't end because there's
always something that we canlearn about ourselves and then
use that in turn to help others.
Damien, I want to talk aboutbriefly your upcoming adventure.
You're you're not a runner bytrade, but it's certainly served
(01:18:08):
you well in your rugby career,and from the time that you
decided to go and run on thepitch for 30 days straight in
2026, you are destined to runlaps around Ireland.
I'm not sure the exact distance,but with the mission and goal of
raising 1 million euros forcharity.
(01:18:31):
So the 1 million euro run, Ibelieve, is what you've tokened
it.
Talk through that and how we cansupport that uh as well uh so
that you can achieve your yourgoal in 2026.
SPEAKER_00 (01:18:46):
Well no, uh when I came off the um North Atlantic
Grove to Galway, it was like uhamazing, amazing and amazing
adventure on on every level.
But it was the cup was reallylike, I mean, bone dry.
And uh and I like to give thatcup some time to kind of
replenish.
And it actually took the guts ofmaybe two and a half years
(01:19:08):
before I felt um the the energywas back that I could take on
another like challenge, and ityou know, it had to be something
that was I'm not interested ingoing over all ground, it had to
be something that was going tochallenge me to a level like
I've never been challengedbefore.
And and I was trying to think ofways of doing that here in
Ireland because um, you know, II have uh two daughters, four
(01:19:33):
and two, and uh the thought hadbeen away for like whatever,
four or five.
Like I was four and a halfmonths away from home on the
North Atlantic Row.
Um, and and that just wasn'tsomething I was willing to do.
So I was starting to think ofthings and how can my family be
close to me and I will dosomething that is meaningful,
purposeful, um, and full ofservice as well.
(01:19:55):
Because as I mentioned, kind ofthat's where I'm at, I suppose,
in life to a certain extent.
And uh and over time, thisvision started to form that I
could, well, if I'm gonna do itin Ireland, um I could try
running again.
So I'd done a lot of since I didthe mountain de sable in 2016,
I'd done a lot of mountaineeringand ocean rowing, but I was kind
(01:20:18):
of drawn back to the runningbecause I knew as well, like
there was nothing going tochallenge me as much as running.
Like I'm you know, as I said, II wouldn't I wouldn't class
myself as any type of runner.
I'm like I'm six foot six footfive, two hundred and seventy
pounds kind of now.
So, like, you know, uh don't seethat body type in many other
(01:20:40):
intrinsics.
Not a whole lot.
No.
Um so uh so yeah, where's thechallenge gonna come?
The challenge gonna come in thethe um the brutality of running
day after day after day for whatI see to be three, three and a
half thousand kilometers,depending on the route.
Um, but that's where it all camefrom, yeah.
(01:21:01):
Just so so I want to challengemyself.
It has to be like uh if it's notgonna challenge me, I'm not
interested.
So that's big time where thechallenge is.
And then, well, you know,where's the service in it?
Well, there's many arms of that.
I suppose that the big kind ofglaring one is like I want to
raise a million euros forcharity, but it's more than
(01:21:22):
that, it's like connecting withpeople every single day as I go.
Like, so you know, we'll haveeither it's yet to be decided,
but either five or 10k everymorning is open.
Anyone can come and join in andrun that five or 10k with me.
Um so like you you can literallyconnect with people, rub
(01:21:42):
shoulders with them, you know,go through an experience with
them, and and that is somethinglike that.
Is it's not it's not the be-alland end all, but it is full of
something, it is full ofsomething that I want to bring
to the world, right?
Um, so that so that that that isa big part of it in terms of you
know connecting with I I I seeit as an almost an ode to the
(01:22:05):
country that has given given meso much, like that the life I
have had the privilege to leadand live is um is so much down
to the country I grew up in, thefamily I grew up in, the
institutions I was I wasconnected to their and and um
(01:22:27):
touched by their culture uh andthe people and the spirit and
the um the community of Ireland.
So I I want to give back as muchas I can to that because I am
incredibly grateful for it.
Um so uh so yeah, that's itreally in a nutshell, try to run
(01:22:48):
a lap around the country and youknow um and raise a million euro
for charity at the same time.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22:55):
That's beautiful, Damien.
I have a new closing traditionon the podcast, and it's to ask
high performers what winningmeans to them.
Because one thing that I'velearned over the years
interviewing high performers isthat winning isn't so much
(01:23:15):
outcome-based as it is a morelikely to be aligned to values
or something deeper than winningequals a bank figure or winning
equals this.
So I'm gonna pose that to you.
What is winning uh to you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:23:40):
It is um self-realization and inner
peace.
So it's to make the most of mytime, energy, and effort to
three things that are finite,uh, they'll all run out someday,
and when they do, I want to beable to contently feel you know,
(01:24:05):
I gave this thing everything Ihad.
I tried my best.
Whether I was soaring or in thegutter, every day I got up and I
tried my best.
I tried to move the needle alittle bit in being a better
human, in connecting withothers, in um in knowing myself
(01:24:25):
a little bit better, um, in umcoaching people, in touching
people in any way I can, andinducing energy in somebody so
that they can go after whateveris important to them in life.
Um so that's the the potentialpiece, trying to make the most
of my time, energy, and effort.
(01:24:46):
And then if I feel if um Ichallenge myself enough and
deeply enough, um I I get toknow myself on levels that are
um are unknown, like on untilyou go into them, you didn't
(01:25:09):
know that was part of you, oryou didn't see it, or you didn't
feel it.
Um so if I keep challengingmyself, if I keep pushing myself
and unveiling those levels, likepeeling away those layers of an
onion, um eventually, I mean youcan feel it.
You get these um you get thisinternal freedom from having a
(01:25:34):
map, a very clear and detailedand broad and deep map of who
you are as a human, and thatbrings inner peace.
You know, you you you havenothing to hide because from
yourself, you're not hiding awayinternally, you're not letting
fear dictate your life.
You're living this honest,courageous experience that um
(01:26:00):
that unveils these levels toyou, and then if you experience
them enough, you know, even ifthey're levels you don't enjoy
like and don't like aboutyourself, over time you can do
something about that, or you canaccept it as somebody, a part of
you, and that's that knowthyself piece.
Um, and that's that that initself, the deeper you know
(01:26:22):
yourself, the more peace youhave in how you live every day.
So that's it.
Self-realization and innerpeace.
SPEAKER_02 (01:26:29):
That's captivating.
If I asked you that question adecade or two ago, do you
believe that would still be yourresponse?
SPEAKER_00 (01:26:37):
I wouldn't have been able to articulate it.
I I would have been operatingout of a similar space, but not,
you know, again, I wouldn't havesaid that the the drive probably
wouldn't have been as deepbecause I wouldn't have had as
uh many experiences that wouldhave brought the humility and
understanding and clarity that Inow have.
Um but I would have felt it forsure.
(01:26:59):
I I think I locked into thatreally early in life.
I feel I've always had a goodfeel for life and what's
important.
Um, but I wouldn't have beenable to articulate it.
I probably would have, and Iwouldn't have had the um I
wouldn't have had theself-understanding to or the
self-confidence to to admit thatI didn't know how to say it.
(01:27:21):
And I probably would have madeup some, you know, shitty
answer.
SPEAKER_02 (01:27:26):
Well, appreciate the honesty there.
I have two elevator questions,meaning that the amount of time
to respond to the question isthe amount of time it takes to
go up one elevator floor.
The first one is we're in anelevator, we're going to grab a
uh breakfast somewhere cool inIreland, and someone gets in,
(01:27:48):
they recognize you, and theythey say, Damien, what's one
step that I can take today toforge an iron mind or start that
process?
SPEAKER_00 (01:28:15):
What are you avoiding?
Um, and the first thing thefirst thing we get past is here,
right?
So what are you avoiding?
And then I point them, but howcan you do one thing today, one
(01:28:36):
small step to move towards thatthing?
SPEAKER_02 (01:28:40):
Ed Milet is one of my favorite authors and
speakers, and one thing I thatstands out from him is he says,
on the other side of pain, or onthe other side of the things we
don't want to do, or on theother side of what we may be
avoiding is the best version ofourselves or a better version of
us.
The last one, Damien, is what'sone book that we can read this
(01:29:04):
year or in the coming year tosharpen our mindset?
SPEAKER_00 (01:29:12):
I really enjoyed a book called Um Unbeatable Mind
by um Mark Devine, Captain MarkDevine, I think, from he was a
Navy SEAL uh in San Diego.
Yeah, Unbeatable Mind's a reallygood book around all things, all
the mind, challenging yourself,pushing yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29:31):
Yeah, Mark is great, great podcast too.
Damien, how how do we keep upwith you and what's the best way
that we can show you love andsupport?
SPEAKER_00 (01:29:40):
Um I'm pretty active on uh social media, Instagram.
Um, so my handle is at owlstocka U L D underscore stock S T O C
K.
Yeah, it's uh an old Irish termof endearment that I I love.
And uh yeah, that's probably thebest test.
SPEAKER_02 (01:30:00):
Alright, yeah, I highly recommend giving Damien a
follow there.
He is indeed very active, and Ilove when you post the stories
of chop wood, carry water.
And it's a good reminder topeople if you see that that to
get your butt moving and don'tmany don't make any excuses.
Damien, this was an honor.
Really loved you sharing yourexperiences and your relentless
(01:30:26):
and endless pursuit ofchallenges.
It was really inspiring to hearthat you didn't just set out on
a challenging journey once andthen hang your hat on it.
You've really turned it into avocation that by you choosing
hard, you then forge the way forothers to choose hard and
(01:30:48):
ultimately see that they can gofurther and harder than they
believed possible.
And I believe that's what we gottoday.
And it's my wish that ourconversation served as an
invitation for people to forgean iron mind of their own and
win today.
Thank you so much.
And I just had this moment, like this moment of
self-awareness, where I Irecognized the destruction that
I was heaping onto myself.
And that moment just gave meenough of a gap to say, just sit
down for a couple of minutes andget a bit of space, right?
So I sat down on the seat, stillpitch black, still waves
(00:23):
everywhere.
And I asked myself threequestions.
So, what are you here to do?
Row the Atlantic, but how do yourow the Atlantic?
And my answer to myself was,Well, you fucking roll.
That's it.
And you're not rowing.
Like, and what isn't what goodis another minute or hour or six
hours or a day spent here kindof lamenting everything that's
(00:46):
gone wrong and feeling sorry andasking questions.
And that doesn't do anything.
If you want to row the Atlantic,that is fuck all good to you.
So I just started to roll.
I rode for seven hours withoutcoming off the oars, seven hours
straight, and I I made 10 miles.
Um put that in context, if yourode on in average conditions
(01:09):
for seven hours, you'd probablymake 25 miles.
So I was going basicallynowhere.
I took 45 minutes off to see ifI could get some food into me
and hold it down because Ihadn't eaten in about 20 hours.
Um I was able to get a shake andthen I rode again for another
seven hours.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
Do hard things, help one person, be good and do good.
Live a life of discipline, andyou'll always win.
You have all the tools that youneed to succeed.
Welcome to Win Today.
SPEAKER_02 (01:45):
Thank you so much for tuning in.
My name is Ryan Cass, and I'myour host.
My purpose in this world is tohelp push people further and
harder than they believepossible and become unshakable
in what matters most to them intheir lives.
Every week, you're going tolearn from either myself or
renowned experts in their field,and we're going to unveil pieces
of our playbook to help you wintoday.
(02:07):
Please, if you love this show,subscribe and share it with
somebody that will benefit fromit.
Let's dig in.
Life is a fight.
That is the philosophy that ourincredible guest possesses.
And if anybody knows how to getthrough a fight, it is Damian
(02:30):
Brown.
He has fought countless battlesas an Irish pro-rugby player, as
a Guinness World Record holderthat has challenged his limits
rowing across the Atlantic Oceanmultiple times, most notably
from New York City all the wayto Ireland.
(02:50):
And as the leader of the IronMan, Iron Mind Institute, where
he teaches people how to buildunshakable discipline and become
relentless in the pursuit oftheir goals and ultimate dreams.
Damien, it's an honor to haveyou on the show and thanks for
(03:11):
joining us all the way fromIreland.
SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
Brian, thanks for having me.
I appreciate the invite.
Great to be here.
(03:42):
So it's shifted a little bitover the years.
Um for many years it was um toquote the famous Delphic
inscription on the walls of thetemple, um, the Apollo temple,
know thyself.
So it was about figuring out whoI was.
And I can I can look youstraight in the eye here and
(04:07):
say, I went to the depths of mysoul to find out who that person
was.
And I'm not saying that hasfinished, it hasn't.
I I will always be driven to gofurther internally and
externally, to exploreinternally and externally.
However, uh more recently in thelast maybe three, four, five
(04:27):
years, I feel that there's beena kind of a shift towards
service within me.
Um and you know, from my ownreadings, I understand that is
part of you knowself-actualization.
Um yeah, I've I've I've put alot of time now into using what
(04:49):
I've learned, um, sharing whatI've learned, trying to pass
that on to the best of myability so others can hopefully
um access new frontiers withinthemselves, access new um ways
(05:10):
of experiencing life through umpathways that I've cut myself
just by putting my head down.
And with great grit and tenacityand belligerence and drive, kind
of found a way to get to where Iam.
You know, it's not been pretty,um, but I suppose that's the
(05:30):
point, right?
Um uh or that's where the realgood stuff comes from, is from
the ugly side, from the shadowstuff.
So so yeah, that's that's whereI'm at right now.
I really want to I want to umwant to use what I have
discovered to impact others, andI feel if I impact them well, um
the world will be a little bitbetter, you know, a little bit
(05:54):
better place.
And uh I could I could die inthe morning happy knowing that
that's what I spent my timedoing.
SPEAKER_02 (06:03):
I appreciate the the humility that comes out in how
you said all of that.
And for us extreme adventurersand the ones that I get the
opportunity to speak with thatreally want to draw the best out
of others, as you said, but notjust draw it out of them, but do
(06:26):
so by exemplifying you going onthe journey yourself, leading by
the way.
What's the genesis of that foryou, Damien?
What cultivated this sense ofadventure and never-ending
pursuit to really see what do wehave inside of us?
SPEAKER_00 (06:53):
I could I'll tell you a story.
Um so I was 15 years old, I waswatching the Rugby World Cup.
Uh so rugby union is is mysport, it was my sport, and I
was um I lived about 10 minutesfrom my local rugby club.
(07:14):
Most of the kids around thestreets that I lived on um
played up in the rugby club,which is called Goegion.
So I'm 15, I'm I'm I've beenignited by this sport, you know,
I love it, but I I I this momentis the one where it just takes
off.
And I'm watching um the AllBlacks, Ireland versus the All
Blacks, the first game of the 95World Cup, and Ireland score
(07:38):
first, like the Irish rugby teamback then are not the Irish
rugby team they were now.
So this was totally unexpected.
Like I was off the couch with myfather screaming, you know,
Ireland are beating the AllBlacks in the first game of the
World Cup.
Anyway, the All Blacks come backand um and dominate for the next
75 minutes or whatever it was,and uh most of that domination
(07:59):
was by uh a winger called JoanAlomu, and I remember just being
absolutely transfixed by thiskid.
He was like four years olderthan me at that point, he was 19
years old.
He was a he was about 265, 270pounds, uh Maori boy, uh
Polynesian boy, and he just waslike taking the world by storm.
(08:24):
He was running over half theIrish team, and I just remember
like it was Bohemut, like and Ithat was my kind of ignition, I
suppose, point.
And then um a couple of yearslater, obsessed with rugby at
this point.
I'm coming off my school's rugbyseason, um, not having played a
(08:45):
game.
So that's like the equivalent ofyou know, um uh the I had one
more year left in high school,one more year left in secondary
school, as we call it here inIreland.
Um, so um at that point in yourlife, like I wasn't particularly
academic.
Um I learned through doing, Ilearned through sport more than
(09:08):
anything, movement, I suppose,play.
And um, and now here I wascoming off my school.
The thing that was mostimportant to me in life, and I
hadn't played a minute of agame, and I I just had this um
moment where it all hit me, likeit all the reality of it all
(09:31):
coursed through me, and I feltall of this deep negativity,
like embarrassment, um,disappointment, shame.
I felt like this deep shamebecause what I had seen was
somebody who was just actinglike a waster, you know.
(09:56):
And um, it was that moment whereI somehow was able to kind of
funnel those emotions, uh asmatter as kind of deep and dark
as they were on my very umyouthful mind.
I was able to funnel them into adecision that changed my life,
and that decision was, or thequestion I asked myself at least
(10:20):
was well, what are you gonna doabout it?
What are you gonna do aboutthis?
You didn't play a minute of theyear of rugby this year with
your school?
Well, what are you gonna doabout it?
What what's the problem here?
And the problem was I wasoverweight, I wasn't fit, I was
lazy, I was um I wasn't doingthe work.
So I didn't know much about likeyou know, it's not like today
(10:43):
where I mean you could get afull training program at the
touch of a button.
Um back in this was 1997, so allI knew really was that people go
run um if they want to get fit.
So I went up to Gowegians,walked up half eleven at night.
I went up at that time because Iwas embarrassed to be seen.
(11:06):
That's how this is how this iswhat this experience was to me.
I didn't I wanted to do it, butthere was this wrestle inside
me.
I didn't want anybody to see medoing it because I was I was
ashamed of the place I was at.
But half eleven at night wentup.
It was a manky night pissing outof the heavens here in Ireland,
like stormy, and uh I I ranaround that pitch for two and a
(11:30):
half laps, and every step wasbasically there was resistance,
there was like stop, stop, stop,but I persevered for two and a
half laps.
That's how one fit I was, andthen I was back the next night,
and the next night, and the nextnight, and I was back every
night for like about 30 nightsstraight.
I ran um laps around that pitch,and and that was that was the
(11:53):
genesis of it all.
That was where I learned thevalue in the work, the value in
pushing yourself.
The because every night I walkedback to my parents' house, I
felt a little bit better aboutmyself, I had a little bit more
confidence, I had a little bitmore respect for myself, I had a
(12:17):
little bit more belief inmyself, and every night I I
walked down, I had the samefeeling, and I couldn't, of
course, at the time I didn'tknow I wasn't able to say any of
this, I didn't understand it,but I could feel it, and it was
driving me back, and it was thatdecision that decision to do
something about um somethingthat was within my control, so
(12:41):
it was to take responsibilityfor my fitness and go and do
something about it.
So that that was just that wasthe genesis, that was
life-changing because withresponsibility brought
commitment, with commitmentbrought work, with work brought
the ability to persevere.
Um and through all of that, thenthere was just these amazing
rewards.
So I was I was rewardedinternally, you know, through
(13:05):
all those things.
You know, I started to trustmyself, I started to believe in
myself, I started to respectmyself, I had a uh um an
increase in the worth I felt.
I was actually I wasn't thisperson who should be ashamed.
I was I was more right, and thenexternally I had amazing I had
amazing rewards because Iactually started to play some
(13:27):
good rugby, and so much so thatI went in a span of two years, I
went from not playing for myschool, which is uh under 18s,
right?
Not playing for my school toplaying senior professional
men's rugby inside two years,and that was just because I got
fit.
Um it was just because I wentand ran laps, and I didn't give
(13:49):
up on myself when I ran thoselaps, and I didn't I didn't um
withdraw because of the feelingsI felt, the resistance, the
weakness, the doubt.
I didn't I I I had I had made adecision and the commitment to
that decision just drove me pastall of that shit.
(14:10):
And that touched me so deeplythat you know I've I've made up
my life.
I've I can't now it wasreinforced and reinforced and
reinforced all through many,many years.
Like firstly, the challenges ofprofessional rugby, and then
challenges I started to setmyself.
The same thing was reinforced,you know.
You every time you do somethingreally hard, that's incredibly
(14:33):
difficult and brings states thatare you know hard to get
through.
Uh you have these, you have thethe equal, the rep reciprocal
rewards.
And um, so when I kind of cameout of professional rugby, I was
still exploring myself for alittle while, but it then it
came to a point where, right,well, you know, as Louis Simmons
(14:54):
from West Side Barbel said,don't be a Ronin.
You know, a Ronin is somebodywho has all this knowledge who
doesn't share it, whereas thesamurai shares it.
So don't be a Ronin, share it.
So that's what I've that's whatthat's where it's kind of
stemmed from.
SPEAKER_02 (15:09):
Wow.
So going all the way back towatching the all blacks play
with your dad against the Irishnational team to then I would
say perhaps even while you'reexperiencing that moment, you
saw yourself on a pitch likethat someday, yet the work you
(15:31):
were putting in didn't equate tocreating that opportunity yet.
Uh one of my favorite books isLegacy, and it's about the all
blacks.
And I have a I have a big bucketlist uh for life life
experiences and a lot ofsporting events too.
And even though rugby's not uhbig here in the States, I I
(15:55):
really appreciate the the aurathat it that it has in Europe
and I wrote down to go to anall-blacks game someday just
because of the tradition ofdiscipline and camaraderie.
(16:16):
I love that after every gamethat they clean the locker room,
they clean the stadium, andthat's just who they are and
what they do.
And thinking back the what yousaid about the work is really
beautiful because nobody canescape doing the work.
We can hope and wish and dreamand see ourselves on the pitch
(16:39):
of a big title game, but if ourwork doesn't amount to, or
rather, if our work doesn'tequate to to that, it's just
gonna stay a hope and a wish anda dream.
Was there a particular day ormoment, Damien, where you know
you're you're taking thesenightly runs, you're getting
(17:02):
better, you're starting tocreate this sense of belief in
yourself, you're seeing someoutward recognition.
Was there a particular momentwhere then you flip the switch
in your mind that you're likeall right, I've got this?
Or is that something that maybedidn't take place in your mind?
(17:25):
It just you just kept doing thework and good things started
happening.
SPEAKER_00 (17:32):
The power of responsibility cannot be
overestimated.
It's an extraordinary choice tomake.
Um and and that moment where Idecided that I took ownership of
the situation, that's where itall changed.
So that that's the hardestthing.
(17:54):
It's it's getting around totruly making that decision.
It's almost all downhill fromthere.
Then you just gotta go and dothe work.
Like, but that but that onceyou've once you've made that
decision, the work becomessomething different.
It's not a chore, it's uh it's apathway.
(18:15):
And the kind of deeper you go,the further you go on that
pathway, the the more enrichingand enlightening and empowering
the experience of the workyou're doing.
So it becomes this beautiful umthis beautiful kind of circular
(18:36):
um uh path of rewards, you know,the further you go, the more,
the deeper the experience youget.
So so that was the thing thatdrove me more than anything.
I never really remember a point.
I just remember that the theseum the the experience been so
(18:59):
rich that despite what I feltduring it, there was no way that
I was not going to go back andgo again and again and again.
Um now the the fact that I um II started to gain some sort of
(19:21):
um recognition um because of thework, like that very much
helped.
I think when you're a whenyou're a man and or a boy at
this point I was, but the samething stands like when when you
start to be looked up to by yourpeers, like your your teammates,
(19:44):
because of the uh impact you'rehaving on the team and the game,
like that's a that's anintoxicating feeling.
Um so that so that that thatalso played into the momentum, I
suppose, I had that like you'vefound this way of living, and
(20:07):
it's accelerating the more youdo it, the more you want to do
it because of that kind ofmomentum that's building up from
the rewards that you're gettingbecause of the work you're
putting in.
And um and in a in a way I'venever really stopped.
Um you know, I I do I do stopfor periods as such.
(20:30):
Like if I come off the back of abig adventure now, I I I give
myself time and space away fromthat way of living, it just
wouldn't be I don't it would it,I mean it's an intuitive thing,
but you know, it doesn'twouldn't make sense either if
you thought about it logicallyum to to be jumping back into it
(20:51):
because it's it's an incrediblydemanding way of living and it's
incredibly pressurized.
Um you know, when you we get tothe end of a a big, big, big
challenge that you know was wastrue challenge at all of the
elements of genuine and truechallenge, you know, the the
(21:11):
last thing you need to be doingis rolling back into another one
of them.
So it's not like this incessant,well, I suppose in a way it is
quite incessant, but it's notlike I never stop.
There is pockets of time andwindows of time.
But generally, I you know, Ibuilt that mindset.
I built uh I built that um uh Ibuilt my kind of operating
(21:35):
beliefs during those 30 nightsand over the years have
continued that just deepened anddeepened, and I still operate in
all those same places, thosesame beliefs, those same
mindsets that that were firstkind of created in those 30
nights running around the pitch.
SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
A lot of your adventures that you seek out and
complete today take you very fardistances in lengthy amounts of
time, days, sometimes weeks,even months when you're thinking
(22:14):
through the next adventure thatyou're gonna go on.
What does that process looklike?
How does someone go from playingrugby to then deciding to row
across the Atlantic to climbMount Everest to compete and
complete the world's hardestrunning race across the Sahara
(22:36):
Desert, fully self-supported?
What does that look like for foryou and how do you ultimately
then choose okay, that's thething that I'm gonna go and do?
SPEAKER_00 (22:48):
When I was playing rugby, um again, it comes back
to the responsibility piece.
So when I was playing rugby, Itook full responsibility for my
training, my preparation, and myperformance.
Um and that meant that I hadthis um focus on those things.
(23:14):
I I was going, I was I wanted tobe better.
I I've always had this mindsetof furtherance.
How can I be better?
What do I need to do?
Um, and that mindset, thatcuriosity brought me outside
rugby.
Like, so I can have a good viewof what everyone in rugby is
(23:35):
doing.
I'm I'm training in theseenvironments every day, but what
are other people doing and howcan I use that to be better?
So uh throughout my career, Iwas you know reading a lot.
Uh, it was kind of before therewas podcasts and um audiobooks
on these things.
So I was I was doing a lot ofreading, be it magazines or
(23:58):
books on adventures, on whatpeople were doing to train.
And that was a that was quite aspectrum of like uh of um
methodologies.
So I was into like looking atwhat the bodybuilders were doing
to put on more muscle, lookingat what the best power lifters
in the world were doing to bestronger, and I was looking at
what the best endurance athleteswere doing to endure, and I was
(24:22):
like, Well, how can I use thatto be a better rugby player?
So through that kind of uhcuriosity, I discovered like
that there's people, there's arace in the Sahara Desert where
people run for six days, 250kilometers self-supported.
I was like, whatever.
I I don't know what it was, butthere was a deep draw, there was
(24:44):
a deep knowing in me straightaway.
It's like I'm gonna do thatsomeday.
Um, I've I read a book about uhtwo British um adventurers, one
Ben Fogle is his name, TVpresenter, and the other one was
uh an ex-Olympic rower, JamesCracknell, called The Crossing.
The book is called The Crossing.
And this is the first time Ifound out that people row across
(25:05):
the Atlantic, and I was like,wow.
So I I I found these thingsduring my rugby career, and I
almost put them on a list, likeI put them in a kind of
cognitive box like that for I'llopen that after rugby.
Um, so as I kind of got closerand closer to the end of my
career, um, those things startedto come more and more into my
(25:26):
attention.
And um, you know, when it wasclear that I was going to
retire, um, that's what I wantedto do.
I I I kind of I had prepared forabout seven or eight years to
give myself a window of timepost-rugby to explore those
things.
Um, and when I mean prepare, Imean prepare financially.
(25:48):
So I just started saving likemoney, putting a uh um a
percentage of my wage away everymonth, so that like the only
thing I knew was the you mightwant to roll across the
Atlantic, but it costs a bunchof money and nobody's gonna pay
you to do it.
So I was like, well, you bet ifyou want to do it, you better be
(26:08):
prepared, right?
So so that's kind of what itlooked like.
Uh I I gave myself a five fiveyears.
Um, and speaking of goals, uhyou know, through the your rugby
career, like you kind ofinstitutionalize to set goals.
So you'd be setting everythingdown to daily goals to to um
yearly goals.
And I had um I had goals listsat that point when I was
(26:33):
retiring that I went back to andreferred to, and they were
one-year goals, five-year goals,and lifetime goals.
And from rereading those, I Imade a new goals list and I
entitled it.
I was 35 at this time, Ientitled it before I am 40, I
will.
(26:53):
And I had seven endings to thatsentence.
Before I am 40, I will completethe Martin de Salah.
Before I'm 40, I will row acrossthe Atlantic.
Before I'm 40, I will um climbfive of the seven summits.
Before I'm 40, I will uh raise ahundred you 100,000 euro for
charity.
So um and this was that window.
So I gave myself a five-yearwindow.
(27:15):
I said, I'm gonna do thesethings, that's all I know.
I want to do.
I'm I'm I'm compelled to dothem, I'm I'm heavily drawn to
do them, and I'm ready to try.
So um so that that's kind of howit all came about, uh, from pro
rugby to extreme adventure.
SPEAKER_02 (27:34):
And everything that you wrote down on that piece of
paper is now a reality, right?
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
Yeah, well, I um of the seven I got around to
attempting five of them.
I completed four or so.
Um, and then the other two thatI didn't even get a chance to is
the time frame thing more thanentonces.
You know, I think we alwaysthink we'll we'll do more in a
time frame than I mean thiscomes I see this daily in
(28:05):
myself.
I'll do that, that, that, that,and that.
And I get that, that, and thatdone, right?
So it was the same thing, it wasthe same thing with the the
five-year goal.
Like that I I had basically toomuch um on it.
Um, and then uh yeah, I haven'tgotten back to them yet because
subsequently became a father,and and so one of you an
(28:27):
example.
One of those was I wanted tocycle the Pan American highway
from the tip of Alaska to umBushuya in Argentina.
Um, but I I I wasn't doing itfor the the goal with that
wasn't any type of performancepiece, it was um it was the
adventure, the travel, theintoxicating nature of the
(28:47):
freedom of a bike and stoppingwhere you want and going where
you want and seeing I thinkthere's the I think there's the
guts of like 23 countries alongthat Pan American highway.
So so that was going to take acouple of years, and I was gonna
try and climb the highestmountain in um North America and
South America, so Denali and uhAcankagua.
(29:09):
Um at the same time.
I I got to both of them, I Iclimbed both of them, but not
during the cycle, if you get me.
So uh so it's that like that itthat would still be something
I'd love to do, but um differentphase of life right now.
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
Hearing you say all of that excites me.
Like this is my kind of jamright here, and I know some
folks that are listening are I'mthinking of some particular good
friends right now that are readyto go jump on board with you.
And as you were saying that, Ithought through I love the
(29:45):
adventure you took acrossCambodia, I believe, where you
bought a$50 bicycle and justfound your way through Cambodia,
and then how you also wentthrough Iran literally couch
surfing.
So I love how your adventuresnot only rather I love how your
(30:10):
adventures extend in in somecases beyond the extreme
endurance realm and reallyexploring uh curiosity.
And I and I hear that is a themeas you're as you're speaking and
just researching what you'vedone.
I want to highlight the rowacross the Atlantic for for a
(30:33):
little bit and get you to sharethat journey because I know that
that did not come without itsfair share of curveballs, of
unwarranted surprises.
If I'm not mistaken on day 17you lost steering of your
vessel, you lost a rudder.
(30:54):
I listened to a podcast on day31 where you were woken up by a
330 meter ship that was comingyour way.
So I'd love if you could put usin the put us in the seat for a
little bit with that adventureand some of the challenges and
(31:14):
learnings that you had on onthat experience.
SPEAKER_00 (31:19):
Well I'll start by saying there's no challenge like
an ocean row it is just umotherworldly in um in what it
demands of you and the strengthyou have to find to get through
it.
So you row oceans in this oakocean rowing craft um they're
(31:42):
roughly seven meters about 21feet long um about two meters
wide um so about seven feet wideand it's got two cabins on
either end so one of them isyour you know it's your refuge
from the madness outside and uhin between and then on the other
side there's a small littlestorage cabin and in between
(32:04):
there's an open rowing deck.
And um yeah by manpower aloneyou try and get across uh
whatever body of water you'reyou know endeavoring to cross
and I had uh discovered um thatthere's a race that takes place
every year across the southernNorth Atlantic so from the
Canary Islands to Antigua andthe Caribbean um called uh at
(32:29):
that time it was called theTalisker Whiskey Atlantic
Challenge and uh um there wassomething extraordinarily
compelling um for me in that Iwas just like obsessed with this
undertaking I think there'ssomething really beautiful about
(32:53):
doing something by manpoweralone something that is um you
know of a different millenniayou know that just like there's
so many other means of doing itnow but there's something really
pure and free and beautifulabout doing it yourself just by
(33:13):
manpower alone.
So um so I had no clue like whenI first um committed to this
undertaking I had like zero ideaof really what I was going into
because I had no maritimeexperience no real rowing
experience even though we do alot of we do a lot of row work
(33:33):
on the indoor roar inprofessional rugby especially my
position it keeps you off yourfeet we do call it off e
conditioning so less wear andtear in your body so I knew I
was I was decent at the on theindoor roar um but I had never
been in a a rowing boat I'dnever been in an ocean rowing
boat and uh the third element ofme being completely out of my
(33:55):
depth excuse the pun was Icouldn't swim I still can't swim
so um so you know you would uhyou would think that I would
stay away from ocean rowingrather I kind of I I I rushed
towards it um and just figuredit out right I just I had no
clue but I worked it out as Iwent and I tried not to look
(34:16):
stupid in front of people whoknew a lot more than me you know
I was a bit of fake it till youmake it and I felt like an
imposter most of the time but ifit means enough to you you
figure it out and you find a wayto make it happen.
So uh so yeah I I joined thisrace and I prepared for about 19
(34:38):
months.
So um I suppose my wheelhouse isin the physical and mental side
of it like that's kind of mybackground and and and that's my
purpose and passion.
And then the technical side Ijust had to learn as I went and
um and eventually I got to thestart line um uh a very
(34:58):
determined individual like um tothe point of delusionment where
where I was in a race with 25other boats um I was a solo so
there was five man boats four orfive person boats four person
boats three person boats pairsand then at the back of that
fleet was um five solo rowers umand I delute like I said
(35:23):
delusionment I thought I couldactually win that race um so um
because I knew I knew liketechnically I'm the best rower
like as in like I can like I II'm I'm I can go on those indoor
row machines like there's nobodybeating me but it's it's got
little crossover to the actualact of rowing an ocean um but I
(35:44):
took off out of the blocks uh Iwas the last boat to leave from
the Canary Islands so they leavekind of in five minute intervals
and I just got the luck of thedraw that I was the very last
boat to leave.
But it just heightened mydetermination and I took out of
the I went out of the blocksfirst six hours I pulled past
about four boats and then I hadthis weird kind of um situation
(36:07):
where the thing I've relied onmy whole life like the thing I
have absolute trust in is in mybody and then it just started to
shut down around me at thatpoint and I was like completely
taken like by surprise I didn'tknow what was happening.
I got seasick I got um blisterson my hands and on my ankles I
(36:29):
had this weird like very verystrange cramping in my lower
limbs like it was it felt likecramp and it was a type of cramp
but I was getting it in like theboth muscle groups so the
antagonistic muscle group so thelike quad and hamstring were
cramping at the same time itdidn't it made no sense like so
(36:53):
I had this very weird um andvery disturbing point in just in
like six well it was maybe sevenor eight hours after starting
that my body was shutting downlike and I didn't couldn't
understand it and I put like 19months of everything I have into
prep and I could see the wholething kind of falling down
(37:14):
around me.
And just at that moment as wellthe tides and the winds changed
so the tide started to go in andthe wind started to blow back to
the um the islands so all of asudden I was getting sucked back
to the islands for now I was notonly was my body shut down but I
was had this kind of situationwhere the boat was getting
(37:34):
pulled back so it seemed likethe whole thing was just going
to go down in flames um thereand then and I was so
discombobulated I was I had veryI struggled to make sense of it
all but I I I said to myself soyou can keep rowing but you're
not going to give yourself a amoment to um you're not gonna
give your body a moment tohopefully have some level of
(37:58):
recovery or you can go and sleepfor a little bit um but then
you're gonna get blown backfurther.
So that's what I decided to do.
I just slept um 45 minutes onthe alarm clock got up I've been
blown back a mile um like thatmight like now that I've I've
kind of spent a lot of timemotion rowing like that's
(38:19):
nothing but at the time it feltlike I I 100 miles I was like
disaster um so hopped back onthe oars I made um a mental
point to get back to which wasuh where I where I had been
which was a a certain distanceto waypoint so it was 48 point
48 point three kilometers ormiles to the next waypoint which
(38:43):
is how you plot your way acrossthe ocean basically coordinates
so at that point I was whateverI was a mile back 49.3 so I said
I'll get back to where I was andthen I'll put out the thing
called power anchor which islike a an anchor that holds you
in place in the middle of stormsum so I'll put that out because
it'll be night time then and atleast I'll I'll have a I'll put
(39:06):
my head down for the night andtomorrow's a new day right like
this fucking shit show will beover hopefully I'll feel better
and then we can see what we cando about day two on day two.
So uh got back to that point.
Took me three hours rowing intothose tides and into the wind to
get back to where I was uhbefore I went to sleep put out
(39:28):
the power anchor something I'dactually never done before um
just a strange series of eventswithin my preparation I'd
actually never done it like I'ddone the theory that's it um so
put that out and then went tosleep and woke up five hours
later so woke up at about fivein the morning and looked first
thing I did is look at the GPSand I've been blown back two
(39:49):
more miles uh a mile and a halftwo more miles so like I and it
was went outside it was howlingthe wind the waves were getting
pushed over the top of the boatand I'm pulling in this power
anchor going what the fuck am Igoing to do like I I felt a bit
better at least physically butmentally I was completely
(40:10):
completely gone like I wascompletely compromised
completely fragile no I had noum anchor I was just my mind was
everywhere and it was allnegative like and it was coming
at me from every angle you knowI could nearly I could see faces
of people I knew who wanted meto fail or at least that's the
story I was telling myself aboutthem right this is this is what
(40:33):
was happening in those thosedark moments literally and uh
figuratively as I kind ofpulling in that power anchor um
moment like this moment ofself-awareness where I I
recognized the destruction thatI was heaping onto myself and
that moment just gave me enoughof a gap to say just sit down
(40:57):
for a couple of minutes and geta bit of space right so I sat
down on the seat still pitchblack still waves everywhere and
I asked myself three questionsso what are you here to do row
the Atlantic well how do you rowthe Atlantic and my answer to
myself was well you fucking rowthat's it and you're not rowing
(41:19):
like and what is in what good isanother minute or hour or six
hours or a day spent here kindof lamenting everything that's
gone wrong and feeling sorry andasking questions and that
doesn't do anything if you wantto row the Atlantic that is fuck
all good to you so I juststarted to row I rode for seven
hours without coming off theoars seven hours straight and I
(41:42):
I made 10 miles um put that incontext if you rode on in the in
average conditions for sevenhours you'd probably make 25
miles so I was going basicallynowhere I took 45 minutes off to
see if I could get some foodinto me and hold it down because
(42:02):
I hadn't eaten in about 20 hoursum I was able to get a shake and
then I rode again for anotherseven hours so 14 and 15 hours
um and I hadn't gone far but I'dgone far enough in that time to
get the winds had died and theum to get out of the tidal
(42:25):
current where it kind of startsum or well where it's stronger.
So I'd gone far enough and thenI was just able to get away
because of that 14 hours workthat I did um and and the the
moment I can I can I can see Ican or I know that the moment
(42:46):
that that race became a successrather than a failure became a
success rather than it did notfinish was it when I saw my
destructive thoughts when I hadthe awareness to identify and
recognize them because um thatgave me the space to sit down
the space to sit down gave methe quick um um time to ask
(43:08):
myself three questions that wereable to direct me uh and then I
just did the work um and therewas two other boats going
through the exact same thing Iwas going through so uh
backwards forwards two othersolos and um all I know about
them is that they didn't rollfor 14 or 15 hours on uh did
(43:30):
morning of day two and into therest of day two and uh and they
never got they never got outthey never got past those tidal
currents and winds and theirraces were their races were over
they ended up um getting pulledback into the island after three
days of battling these winds andthese currents so um so that was
(43:53):
my baptism of fire into thisextraordinary adventure that
came ahead that as you saidbrought you know on day 14 I had
um a double capsize um in acrazy storm that actually ended
up ending the race of two otherboats as well where they were
(44:15):
capsized one of them had a fireon board so I was capsized twice
during that storm it wasabsolutely like crazy levels of
kind of chaos um on my secondcapsize I was outside on deck I
ended up getting um pushed intothe water when the boat was
capsized by this giant wave andjust before I got into the water
(44:38):
I grabbed onto a handle on thebulkhead of the boat just on one
of the cabin faces and I heldonto it underwater as the boat
went full 306 well 180 degreesunderwater and I was just
hanging on to the boat with onehand going squeeze your grip
squeeze your grip and I got kindof lassoed out of the water by
the self-writing of these boatsthey're designed to self-write
(45:02):
so it was it was just animmensely crazy day as you said
a consequence of that was I hadum complete complete malfunction
of my um steering system soabout three days later that
thing finally cracked and brokeand and unless I had a welder on
board I wasn't going to be ableto fix it so um I had to row the
(45:24):
final well the 2000 miles 2000nautical miles just with I had
to steer the boat um with theoars because I had no other way
my tiller my rower my um um myuh rudder was gone couldn't be
used um and look I was alreadyrowing an ocean in what they
(45:46):
call a traditional shaped oceanrowing craft so um it uses there
is more modern shaped oceanrowing boats that use the wind
more but it didn't that doesn'talign with my values so I I
didn't choose that I chose atraditional shaped boat with
foot steering only so some ofthese boats have autopilots have
(46:09):
um I I went as raw as you can goand now here I was in a
traditional shaped boat with nosteering so it it became like 10
times harder like it's just youhave to try and row the boat
then with the oars or sorrysteer the boat with the oars and
it's incredibly difficult.
Anyway I I I did what I did andI I kept going basically I kept
(46:31):
going I kept rowing I keptanswering that question I asked
myself well how do you row anocean you row you row you row
right and you keep rowing and ifyou keep rowing and something
I've learned and it's a reallyit's uh it's the most simple
thing that ocean rowing taughtme but it's the most righteous
thing is uh wherever you want toget to in life it doesn't matter
(46:54):
if you can point yourself in theright direction and never stop
so in this case never stoprowing you'll get there you'll
get there as long as you candirect yourself and you never
stop pulling on the oars you'llget to where you want to get to
it's the exact same thing inlife um and that's what I did
that's what I did after 63 daysuh I ended up getting to Antigua
(47:18):
without any um without any uhsteering system and it was
extraordinarily difficult Iended up getting like in a
severe case of pressure soresand seesaws because when you
have to steer with the oarsyou're moving around a lot on
the seat and if you're notcleaning yourself diligently
which I wasn't um you start toget the the salt crystals start
(47:39):
to like you know get into yourskin and you get the see the
seesaws and then the pressuresores just from sitting down for
so long every day and it is likeChinese torture.
Like there was moments aroundthe 40s like somewhere around 40
that I I have videos of myselflike shouting into the phone
like because the doubt was bigaround then because sitting down
(48:03):
for 10 minutes was excruciating.
SPEAKER_02 (48:06):
I'm like I need to sit down for 12 hours a day and
row this boat like I can't evensit down for 10 minutes how the
fuck am I going to get itTantiga um you know a kind of
necessity breeds invention endedup kind of creating this like
perch that I put on my seat thatwas uh like a bunch of um yoga
(48:27):
mats that I had glued togetherand then they raised me up
enough and then I was able tocut out holes where I had the
pressure sores in the yoga matsjust to give them some space so
I wasn't sitting on themdirectly and that helped me kind
of get to a point where I wasable to sit down for 12 hours a
day and anyway got the boatTante I don't give short answers
(48:54):
sorry no i i was mentallywatching you on the boat and I'd
love for you to share more aboutjust how unrelenting the ocean
is so we've got the context ofyou've been pushed back a couple
times and you've lost yoursteering you've been capsized
(49:17):
but talk through what what arewe dealing with here do we have
do we have 10 foot 12 foot wavesthat are that are crashing to
our to our left and right andfront and back and what what
type of sound is the oceanmaking what is it are there any
other signs of life are therethe occasional cargo ships or is
(49:39):
it just you and an unrelentingmother nature that is just
pounding you all day long soit's a bit of an white knuckled
experience when you're on decklike so when you come out of the
um cabin the first thing you dois you clip into the boat.
SPEAKER_00 (50:02):
So you have a basically you're wearing either
a climbing harness or a lifejacket and you clip into one
point of contact with the boatbecause you just never know when
a wave is going to come theycall them rogue waves um see
just never know when a point atthat point you know you could
get unlucky and it could get arogue wave and it could capsize
(50:26):
the boat so anytime you're ondeck it it is white knuckled
you're hanging on basically umnow there is calmer days and and
the ocean is um she's moody soshe has her moods like but
generally she has a she's has aa level of challenge within her
(50:46):
that you have to pay alertattentiveness to and if you
don't you are risking a lot soso you you cannot be lazy out
there like you can't be um youcan't relax it's just way too
dangerous um and you have to bevery attentive and very clued
(51:06):
into what you're doing and verypresent and there's there's
something beautiful about thatin itself um and it ranges from
flat cam to 30 40 foot waves solike I have this image that I
will never get out of my mind ofum being um just seeing these
(51:29):
rollers like walls of ocean likecoming along like I could see
them as far as I can see rightand as far as I could see left I
could see these walls of waterand then they'd come and they're
big bulbous things right so I'djust go up the face up up up up
up up and then over the top andthen I'd see another one coming
(51:51):
and about 15 seconds later thisbig huge wave would come and up
over that.
So that was a that like I I'vespent 170 odd days nearly 180
days on ocean running boats andthat's the only time I've ever
seen that it's just likeabsolutely mind blowingly
beautiful and um unique um andthen um you have the chaos of a
(52:17):
storm like where you know it'sjust like the wind is howling
like ferociously and the thewaves are um roaring I suppose
they're grumbling and groaningand when you're in the cabin in
a storm um the noise you you'reso alert right because you're
(52:39):
you're just listening becauseyou know the sound of a wave
that potentially could capsizeyou it it hisses so like it the
wave will break at a certain umspace a certain um distance from
the boat and then the the powerof the break will hiss along the
(53:00):
top of the rest of the ocean andyou're listening for that type
of um potential wave that canpotentially um capsize you and
when you're listening you put umif you hear a coming you put out
all fours when you brace in thecabin for the turn um and then
you can see like low like on theon the more southern route you
(53:26):
have um beautiful clear skiesmost nights so if you look up
into the um like I've been inthe middle of the Sahara there's
nothing like the middle of anocean like the middle of the
Sahara is spectacular but itpales in comparison to the
middle of an ocean like there'sso many stars in the sky on a
clear night in the middle of theAtlantic that when you look up
(53:49):
you can't focus on anythingbecause they they all start to
slightly shimmer there's so manyof them they're just this like
sheath of shimmering stars justand you can't actually like the
the the cletter the trillionsand billions of them you can see
they kind of all join togetherinto this sheet of like
shimmering mass it's absolutelyextraordinary um so you can have
(54:14):
moments like that and then youknow you can have kind of on the
North Atlantic I'll probably getto it but you know you have much
a lot more fog like I I I can Ican remember times where
although I know I'm alone I knowthere's not a ship within three
kilometers of me because on myradar it says there isn't but I
(54:35):
feel claustrophobic because I'mcaught in this bubble of fog
like just around the boat like Ican only see 10 meters that way
10 meters that way and like youalmost feel like I I I might hit
something even though you knowthere's nothing there to hit
like so yeah all sorts ofdifferent experiences and we in
terms of wildlife you can haveeverything from you know the
(54:57):
bird life to um I had the thethe privilege of many whale
encounters including spermwhales um and pods of dolphins
like every day I reckon about 50days straight on the North
Atlantic I had either um acouple of dolphins or a full pod
by the boat like every singleday is and and these moments are
(55:21):
indescribable in how importantthey are to you like then the
the the um explosion of theexperience of connecting with
animals in a million miles froma ticket boot right a million
miles from like somebodycharging you to do it like it's
just in their natural habitatand their curiosity is bringing
(55:43):
them to you and that's that'sthe same with whales a couple of
sharks um dolphins sea turtlesum yeah like beautiful moments
that's as primal as it gets youtalked about the three questions
that you asked yourself when itwas getting really tough and you
(56:04):
know how do you how do you rowacross the Atlantic?
SPEAKER_02 (56:06):
Will you frickin' row as you've encountered those
similar moments and otherchallenges and things that you
do and even if you were to gointo the future into another
challenge you may be taking onwith your actually into this one
million lap challenge aroundIreland that you'll be doing
(56:29):
next year.
When you reach these momentswhat is your typical process or
what questions are you askingyourself then?
Are they the the same three justinstead of how do I row from
here, how do I run aroundIreland will you freaking run?
Or do you have a differentprocess that keeps you moving
(56:49):
forward?
SPEAKER_00 (56:51):
Yeah I I've um I created a methodology around
this um from you know years andyears and years of exploring it
and and pushing um pushing mybody for more and and and you
know through that explorationand human guinea pigging almost
realizing that it's always themind that um that creates the
(57:17):
problem.
It's always the mind that is thebarrier it's not the actual body
so um you know in a in anutshell what you want to what
people want to be thinking aboutwhen it comes to like these
these moments of doubt andnegativity that come up through
physical challenges the firstthing you need to do is get out
of your head and into your bodyso you need to redirect your
(57:40):
attention out of um the um storythat it's telling you the
narrative the the um the mentalum conversation and you need to
reconnect it into your body soso the mythology I call the four
controllables basically thatthere's four actions that are
always within your control nomatter what the situation no
(58:05):
matter how deep the despair isno matter how negative and dark
and destructive the theconversation is if you can
become aware of thatconversation you can change your
experience of what you'reexperiencing so I'm I'm um
having a really bad day on theoars and all I'm thinking about
(58:29):
is how many miles are to go howmany miles I've done um how many
days this is likely going totake me so that that's that
conversation is a a consequenceof where I've let it go to right
I've become outcome orientedI've let my focus go to the
outcome and anytime you'refocused on an outcome the
(58:51):
outcome is not within my controlit's not within your control it
will never be within any of ourcontrol anytime you're focused
on an outcome you're going to benegative there's going to be an
uh a subjective experience thatis going to feel negative and
you can change that uh you canchange it by concentrating and
focusing on an action that'swithin your control so hence the
four controllables so the firstone is body position and
(59:14):
technique that's always withinyour control so in case of if
say I was running my bodyposition and the technique of
running those are always withinmy control so I can try to
redirect my concentration to apart of that a specific part of
my body position or my techniqueand to do that I have and and
(59:39):
just so we're getting into thekind of full um um the full view
of what this method is to dothat I'll have what I call pre
prepared my awareness so I'llhave uh mental resets that are
it like I've readied them forthis moment because I know this
is coming right so so I'm notgoing into This um experience by
(01:00:03):
chance.
I know these are these are partof challenge.
Like you're if you're if you'renot getting them, you're not
pushing yourself.
So um, so they will come up andI'm ready for them.
I'm I've readied my response.
I've readied my response withwhat I call a mental reset or a
mental anchor.
And what those do is they leadmy mind to an action that's
(01:00:24):
within my control.
So um uh an example of a bodyposition and technique one would
be so if you are um if you'rerunning, it would be body
language.
So just saying to myself bodylanguage, it just puts me the
minute I say to myself bodylanguage, it just I I
automatically move into a betterbody position.
(01:00:46):
And once I've made thatconnection, so I've gone from an
external thing into okay,focusing on my body language,
I'm present.
I'm and once I'm present, Icannot be anything else but
present.
I can't be negative, I can't bedoubtful, I can't be happy, I
can't be joyful, I can only bepresent.
(01:01:09):
No emotion can infiltrate thepresent, the the act of being
present, the present if you arefocused and concentrated on
action within your control, yourpresent, no emotion can
infiltrate that.
So um, so I have these mentalresets ready.
Like I was on the my secondocean row from New York to Goa.
(01:01:31):
Um, I had three of them writtenon the side of my cabin.
So the three resets were um, isthis quality work?
Am I concentrating on an actionthat's within my control?
And uh what was the third one?
Um, is this quality work?
Am I cancelling an action withinmy control?
And um oh god, it pumped to me.
(01:01:52):
Uh, but anyway, if you thinkabout is this quality work?
Like that's a an I the minute Iask myself that question, I I do
an audit of my effort.
Um, so third controllable iseffort.
So first one is body positionand technique, second one is
breath, third one is effort, andfourth one is self-talk.
(01:02:13):
So those four things are alwayswithin my control, and I can I
can have a mental reset readyfor one or all of them.
Um, and in this case, on the onthe row, is this quality work?
Oh, is this quality work?
Is my effort honest?
And am I concentrating on anaction?
What's within my control?
The minute I ask myself one ofthose questions, it brings me
(01:02:34):
internally.
So, is this quality work?
So I do this audit on what I amdoing with my body position, my
technique, and my efforts.
And if I identify, and which Iwill, of course, if I identify a
part that is not to a standard,well, then I'm bringing my
concentration to that.
Say it's like um I'm sit, I'mslouched, or I'm my lower back
(01:02:55):
is in extension, or I'm I'm not,um, my stroke is short.
So the minute I identify that,well, then I start to work on
that.
So I'm bringing up say a furtherrange of motion into my stroke.
So I'm I'm I'm present throughmy concentrating on an action
within my control.
And the minute I've done that,I've changed my state.
(01:03:17):
So uh is my effort honest?
So I'm auditing my effort, andof course, we'll always see that
there's always more.
Once we bring our intention, umuh uh intention internally and
and and focus on what we'redoing, we'll see that you know
we're not doing enough.
We're with there's more in us,even if I'm trying to row an
(01:03:39):
ocean and I'm 2,000 miles away,I can still put in a little bit
more effort right now than I amdoing to get to where I want to
get to.
It doesn't mean I'm gonna startsprinting out of the blocks,
right?
But I can always do a little bitmore in that moment.
So so those resets were preparedand they were ready for moments
like that, moments that I knewwere coming.
(01:04:01):
And um, the quicker I can getout of those moments, firstly,
not only do I improve myexperience of life, right?
Because I'm not sitting in likethis negative state of whatever,
it could be minor, it could befrustration, could be agitation,
or it could be it could beextraordinarily challenging,
like this moments of despair.
So I can I get I'm changing myexperience of what I'm
(01:04:22):
experiencing, so so that's good.
And secondly, um I'm uh I'm I'mback in control mentally, and
um, and that self-control isreally important for uh the
outcome we're looking for.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:38):
Yeah, no, and I appreciate the framework there
and the rather the methodologywith the four controllables
because those are absolutelyalways within our reach, no
matter what's going on, whetherit's expected or unexpected.
Damien, we could go more indepth on your adventures, but
I'd rather just talk about whatthat looks like for others and
(01:05:01):
the experiences that you createthrough Iron Mine Institute and
ultimately what it feels liketo, you know, having gone
through these yourself, butultimately to create that in the
lives of others.
So why don't we dive intoIronmind, the vision and mission
(01:05:23):
there?
And then we talked before we gotstarted about something really
exciting you've got coming up uhthrough that.
Uh, believe it's the Masogiexperience for a group of folks
that have been in for a while.
So talk through how you'rechanging lives uh via
experiences.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:44):
So um as you can imagine, I'm a big believer in
challenge and the power ofchallenge and um an exploring
challenge in our lives andself-imposing challenge.
Um that voluntary difficulty,that voluntary adversity, that
voluntary struggle, and theextraordinary rewards that are
(01:06:08):
held in that.
Um so uh when I came off theback of my second ocean row, I
um this was the next place Iwanted to go.
So I I started the Iron MindInstitute so that I could um
dutifully share everything I hadlike not only learned, but like
(01:06:32):
fashioned and forged at thegrindstone of the hardest
challenges on the planet, um,and pass that on to others
because of its enriching, itsempowerment, um its enlightening
kind of essence when you areable to um uh control your
(01:06:55):
response to the mostdebilitating destructive states
that um you can um you canself-impose like that is an
amazing, amazing power to haveas a human, and it translates so
well um into life in terms ofhow you operate.
(01:07:19):
And if you're operating at ahigher level today than you were
yesterday, well, everyone yourub shoulders with is going to
be um uh privileged toexperience that, and it's going
to actually it's going to havean effect on people because of
that energy that you'reemitting.
(01:07:40):
So um, and it it all comes downlike you know, so if we're
challenging ourselves and we'rewe're we're inducing these
moments, so I call them thedecisive moment, we're inducing
this moment.
It's really simple um how we uhcontrol our response to that.
Like it's it's not complicated,but it is really hard to do
(01:08:03):
because of the the essence ofthe experience is is one of you
know um disturbance and umcompromise, but it really comes
down to how you organize yourthoughts, just basically what
you think about.
So that's what we at ouressence, that's what we try to
train into people.
So we put them into compromisedum states mentally through
(01:08:27):
challenge, and um we um we guidethem out of that through our
methodology, through trainingour methodology, through
training or practicing it timeand time again and through
coaching it.
So at the end of these trainingprograms, so we put people
through um we have two levels ofwell, we have three levels of
(01:08:52):
programs.
We have a kind of we have whatwe call an entry level, which is
an eight-week training programwhere we we touch on some of
this, and then we have our kindof our signature program, which
is a 15-week training program,where at the end of that 15
weeks, the participants in theprogram take on a 12-hour, a
(01:09:13):
non-stop 12-hour challenge, andthat's called Sisu, which is
after a Finnish philosophy onhow to live life.
Um and uh about uh six monthsago, we we opened up or well, we
invited a small group of peopleto um our 24-hour crucible
(01:09:37):
challenge, which is calledMasogi.
And that is about to um happenin November.
So it's the first time we'rerunning it.
Um and incredibly excited aboutthat.
I've been coaching these guysnow, as I said, for about six
months, and they're coming rightto the peak of their
preparations, and they're gonnatake on a challenge that is uh
(01:09:59):
extraordinarily difficult.
Um I'm kind of jealous, and I'mkind of not jealous.
You just you know that like it'sgoing to be, you know, I know
it's gonna be incrediblydifficult.
I know they're gonna have uh anamazing experience if they can
get through it.
(01:10:19):
But it's it's very much we we soit's it's not just a test of
endurance, um, it's a test ofmuch more than that.
So we we we do um different kindof energy system training.
So they'll do a lot of speedstuff, some sprint stuff, they
do some strength work, they dosome endure, a lot of endurance
(01:10:39):
stuff.
Um so we come at them from alldifferent angles.
There's there's parts, so wesplit this the we split our
experience into what we callloops, and each loop has the
same sequence.
So they prepare, they'reintroduced to what they're about
to do, they prepare mentally forthat, or we introduce the mental
um the mental prep for that umuh upcoming workout, if you
(01:11:05):
want.
Then we we do an RTT, we'reready to train them, then we do
the actual training part, andthen we do what we call
compensation future prepreflection.
So we reflect on what we were wejust went through, particularly
reflecting on the the mentalfocus that we had for that work,
and then what that looked like,what that you know when the when
(01:11:28):
we met the enemy, what happened,and then how can we get better?
Um you know, when when you'rehaving these, when we are having
these what we call Iron MineCrucible experiences, like
they're there the potential forparadigm shifting uh experiences
are off the charts.
(01:11:50):
So if you if you're lucky, youhave one or two paradigm shifts
a year, right?
And that's only if you'resomebody who's driven to push
themselves.
These guys could have seven,eight in an experience, like so.
That's why the reflection pieceis really important that we link
into what may have come about inthe chaos of challenge and try
and put some semblance of itonto paper that will help
(01:12:13):
accelerate any learning and anyuh clarity around that that we
can get there.
So that's why we have thatreflection piece.
So we have one loop where wecall it a chaos loop, and um,
it's a body of work where theyhave no idea what's coming and
they have no idea when it ends,relatively like obviously they
know at some point it's gonnaend, but you know, that doesn't
(01:12:36):
help them at all when they're inthe maelstrom of the work, like
and when it's coming at them,and they their mind is just
gonna go to a place where wewant it to go to, which is like
outside of any type of control,and then we're gonna guide them
back into it.
And what we're trying to dothrough that guidance is for
them to build the association.
Well, well, okay, when I focusedon that, I felt this in that
(01:13:01):
moment, and that changed rightmy experience.
And when I was thinking aboutthat, or I was thinking about
when this is going to be over, Ifelt like this, and then when I
focused on something else, youknow, I felt something
different.
So you're trying to get them tobuild that association, and like
it's like uh I like to think ofit as a kind of a spider web,
you know, neurologically.
(01:13:23):
And the first time you make it,it's this really thin sliver,
but the connection is made, andif you can have the same
experience again, you addanother sliver to it, and then
over time, if you keep havingthat experience, it becomes
stronger and stronger andstronger and stronger, and the
the connection becomes stronger,so like that information passes
(01:13:45):
in your brain uh much quicker.
So, um, so yeah, that's whatwe're trying to teach, and
that's where we're trying to doit, and that's how we do it
through those what we call well,firstly, the training program,
which is incredibly important,and then what we call crucible
experiences.
Like crucible is like a forge,it's like where they you know,
where they used to uh the um uhmelt and form uh new um
(01:14:10):
substances, so like you canthink of it as this ready red
hot forge as it happens in yourmind, it becomes red hot, it
becomes malleable, and uh andyou can make change through
paradigm shifts.
SPEAKER_02 (01:14:22):
Damien, do you find that most folks that you get to
work with as it relates to theto the mental component of this,
that most of the work is or afair portion of work is spent
uncovering false narratives thatthey've formed from a very young
(01:14:44):
age and perhaps they've beencarrying since their childhood,
whether they're aware of thenarrative or unaware of the
narrative.
SPEAKER_00 (01:14:52):
Yeah, for sure.
Um those limiting beliefs ordisempowering beliefs uh pop up
all the time.
Um and it's mostly inconversation, you know.
So when we're the way we ourprograms are set out, we do
reviews, we call themperformance reviews, but
basically we go back into somenumbers um from their um from
(01:15:18):
the training block.
And you know, we're what we'retrying to do is show them the
progress they've made because itcan be difficult sometimes,
particularly with the way um themachines that we use, the
experience of using them is isone of um uh it's one of
negativity because it's thetraining is so hard, so we can
build negative associations.
(01:15:39):
So what we try and do at the endof a training cycle is go back
in and and get them real clarityon how far they've come and
induce some positive energy fromthat so they can kick on into
the next cycle.
So when you're having thatconversation uh with those with
the participants at that time,we we we often um experience
(01:16:03):
like these uh beliefs that comeup.
Um, thankfully for us, it comesup in a positive light because
they have broken throughsomething through the work, you
know, by by uh leveraging thefour controllables, they're able
to get past some type ofnegativity.
(01:16:24):
That in itself is an eye-openingexperience, like and it changes
people's perspective, it changestheir beliefs, and that's what
we're trying to do, right?
So, you know, we talk a lotabout um the the outcomes of
what we want here are like arereally like metaphysical, like
they're things likeself-respect, self-worth,
(01:16:45):
self-belief, self-trust.
You know, I put myself into thissituation.
It was extraordinarily hard.
Every cell in my body wanted wastelling me to go the other way,
to give up, to quit, to relent,to slow down.
But I control that moment and Iwas able to change my experience
and then able to kick on.
And that is when people havethat experience, like they're
(01:17:06):
like, Well, I mean, if I can dothat, I can why I can do that
again and again.
So they're they're creatingthese paradigm shifts and
they're getting past their ownlimiting beliefs.
Um, and then they're on thepath, right?
SPEAKER_02 (01:17:20):
Right, that's beautiful.
It's self-mastery andself-discovery, I believe, or it
is a beautiful experience withinitself in couple when coupled
with a challenge or a set ofchallenges to the body and mind
(01:17:43):
like what better way to livelife.
And it's something that thatdoesn't end because there's
always something that we canlearn about ourselves and then
use that in turn to help others.
Damien, I want to talk aboutbriefly your upcoming adventure.
You're you're not a runner bytrade, but it's certainly served
(01:18:08):
you well in your rugby career,and from the time that you
decided to go and run on thepitch for 30 days straight in
2026, you are destined to runlaps around Ireland.
I'm not sure the exact distance,but with the mission and goal of
raising 1 million euros forcharity.
(01:18:31):
So the 1 million euro run, Ibelieve, is what you've tokened
it.
Talk through that and how we cansupport that uh as well uh so
that you can achieve your yourgoal in 2026.
SPEAKER_00 (01:18:46):
Well no, uh when I came off the um North Atlantic
Grove to Galway, it was like uhamazing, amazing and amazing
adventure on on every level.
But it was the cup was reallylike, I mean, bone dry.
And uh and I like to give thatcup some time to kind of
replenish.
And it actually took the guts ofmaybe two and a half years
(01:19:08):
before I felt um the the energywas back that I could take on
another like challenge, and ityou know, it had to be something
that was I'm not interested ingoing over all ground, it had to
be something that was going tochallenge me to a level like
I've never been challengedbefore.
And and I was trying to think ofways of doing that here in
Ireland because um, you know, II have uh two daughters, four
(01:19:33):
and two, and uh the thought hadbeen away for like whatever,
four or five.
Like I was four and a halfmonths away from home on the
North Atlantic Row.
Um, and and that just wasn'tsomething I was willing to do.
So I was starting to think ofthings and how can my family be
close to me and I will dosomething that is meaningful,
purposeful, um, and full ofservice as well.
(01:19:55):
Because as I mentioned, kind ofthat's where I'm at, I suppose,
in life to a certain extent.
And uh and over time, thisvision started to form that I
could, well, if I'm gonna do itin Ireland, um I could try
running again.
So I'd done a lot of since I didthe mountain de sable in 2016,
I'd done a lot of mountaineeringand ocean rowing, but I was kind
(01:20:18):
of drawn back to the runningbecause I knew as well, like
there was nothing going tochallenge me as much as running.
Like I'm you know, as I said, II wouldn't I wouldn't class
myself as any type of runner.
I'm like I'm six foot six footfive, two hundred and seventy
pounds kind of now.
So, like, you know, uh don't seethat body type in many other
(01:20:40):
intrinsics.
Not a whole lot.
No.
Um so uh so yeah, where's thechallenge gonna come?
The challenge gonna come in thethe um the brutality of running
day after day after day for whatI see to be three, three and a
half thousand kilometers,depending on the route.
Um, but that's where it all camefrom, yeah.
(01:21:01):
Just so so I want to challengemyself.
It has to be like uh if it's notgonna challenge me, I'm not
interested.
So that's big time where thechallenge is.
And then, well, you know,where's the service in it?
Well, there's many arms of that.
I suppose that the big kind ofglaring one is like I want to
raise a million euros forcharity, but it's more than
(01:21:22):
that, it's like connecting withpeople every single day as I go.
Like, so you know, we'll haveeither it's yet to be decided,
but either five or 10k everymorning is open.
Anyone can come and join in andrun that five or 10k with me.
Um so like you you can literallyconnect with people, rub
(01:21:42):
shoulders with them, you know,go through an experience with
them, and and that is somethinglike that.
Is it's not it's not the be-alland end all, but it is full of
something, it is full ofsomething that I want to bring
to the world, right?
Um, so that so that that that isa big part of it in terms of you
know connecting with I I I seeit as an almost an ode to the
(01:22:05):
country that has given given meso much, like that the life I
have had the privilege to leadand live is um is so much down
to the country I grew up in, thefamily I grew up in, the
institutions I was I wasconnected to their and and um
(01:22:27):
touched by their culture uh andthe people and the spirit and
the um the community of Ireland.
So I I want to give back as muchas I can to that because I am
incredibly grateful for it.
Um so uh so yeah, that's itreally in a nutshell, try to run
(01:22:48):
a lap around the country and youknow um and raise a million euro
for charity at the same time.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22:55):
That's beautiful, Damien.
I have a new closing traditionon the podcast, and it's to ask
high performers what winningmeans to them.
Because one thing that I'velearned over the years
interviewing high performers isthat winning isn't so much
(01:23:15):
outcome-based as it is a morelikely to be aligned to values
or something deeper than winningequals a bank figure or winning
equals this.
So I'm gonna pose that to you.
What is winning uh to you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:23:40):
It is um self-realization and inner
peace.
So it's to make the most of mytime, energy, and effort to
three things that are finite,uh, they'll all run out someday,
and when they do, I want to beable to contently feel you know,
(01:24:05):
I gave this thing everything Ihad.
I tried my best.
Whether I was soaring or in thegutter, every day I got up and I
tried my best.
I tried to move the needle alittle bit in being a better
human, in connecting withothers, in um in knowing myself
(01:24:25):
a little bit better, um, in umcoaching people, in touching
people in any way I can, andinducing energy in somebody so
that they can go after whateveris important to them in life.
Um so that's the the potentialpiece, trying to make the most
of my time, energy, and effort.
(01:24:46):
And then if I feel if um Ichallenge myself enough and
deeply enough, um I I get toknow myself on levels that are
um are unknown, like on untilyou go into them, you didn't
(01:25:09):
know that was part of you, oryou didn't see it, or you didn't
feel it.
Um so if I keep challengingmyself, if I keep pushing myself
and unveiling those levels, likepeeling away those layers of an
onion, um eventually, I mean youcan feel it.
You get these um you get thisinternal freedom from having a
(01:25:34):
map, a very clear and detailedand broad and deep map of who
you are as a human, and thatbrings inner peace.
You know, you you you havenothing to hide because from
yourself, you're not hiding awayinternally, you're not letting
fear dictate your life.
You're living this honest,courageous experience that um
(01:26:00):
that unveils these levels toyou, and then if you experience
them enough, you know, even ifthey're levels you don't enjoy
like and don't like aboutyourself, over time you can do
something about that, or you canaccept it as somebody, a part of
you, and that's that knowthyself piece.
Um, and that's that that initself, the deeper you know
(01:26:22):
yourself, the more peace youhave in how you live every day.
So that's it.
Self-realization and innerpeace.
SPEAKER_02 (01:26:29):
That's captivating.
If I asked you that question adecade or two ago, do you
believe that would still be yourresponse?
SPEAKER_00 (01:26:37):
I wouldn't have been able to articulate it.
I I would have been operatingout of a similar space, but not,
you know, again, I wouldn't havesaid that the the drive probably
wouldn't have been as deepbecause I wouldn't have had as
uh many experiences that wouldhave brought the humility and
understanding and clarity that Inow have.
Um but I would have felt it forsure.
(01:26:59):
I I think I locked into thatreally early in life.
I feel I've always had a goodfeel for life and what's
important.
Um, but I wouldn't have beenable to articulate it.
I probably would have, and Iwouldn't have had the um I
wouldn't have had theself-understanding to or the
self-confidence to to admit thatI didn't know how to say it.
(01:27:21):
And I probably would have madeup some, you know, shitty
answer.
SPEAKER_02 (01:27:26):
Well, appreciate the honesty there.
I have two elevator questions,meaning that the amount of time
to respond to the question isthe amount of time it takes to
go up one elevator floor.
The first one is we're in anelevator, we're going to grab a
uh breakfast somewhere cool inIreland, and someone gets in,
(01:27:48):
they recognize you, and theythey say, Damien, what's one
step that I can take today toforge an iron mind or start that
process?
SPEAKER_00 (01:28:15):
What are you avoiding?
Um, and the first thing thefirst thing we get past is here,
right?
So what are you avoiding?
And then I point them, but howcan you do one thing today, one
(01:28:36):
small step to move towards thatthing?
SPEAKER_02 (01:28:40):
Ed Milet is one of my favorite authors and
speakers, and one thing I thatstands out from him is he says,
on the other side of pain, or onthe other side of the things we
don't want to do, or on theother side of what we may be
avoiding is the best version ofourselves or a better version of
us.
The last one, Damien, is what'sone book that we can read this
(01:29:04):
year or in the coming year tosharpen our mindset?
SPEAKER_00 (01:29:12):
I really enjoyed a book called Um Unbeatable Mind
by um Mark Devine, Captain MarkDevine, I think, from he was a
Navy SEAL uh in San Diego.
Yeah, Unbeatable Mind's a reallygood book around all things, all
the mind, challenging yourself,pushing yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29:31):
Yeah, Mark is great, great podcast too.
Damien, how how do we keep upwith you and what's the best way
that we can show you love andsupport?
SPEAKER_00 (01:29:40):
Um I'm pretty active on uh social media, Instagram.
Um, so my handle is at owlstocka U L D underscore stock S T O C
K.
Yeah, it's uh an old Irish termof endearment that I I love.
And uh yeah, that's probably thebest test.
SPEAKER_02 (01:30:00):
Alright, yeah, I highly recommend giving Damien a
follow there.
He is indeed very active, and Ilove when you post the stories
of chop wood, carry water.
And it's a good reminder topeople if you see that that to
get your butt moving and don'tmany don't make any excuses.
Damien, this was an honor.
Really loved you sharing yourexperiences and your relentless
(01:30:26):
and endless pursuit ofchallenges.
It was really inspiring to hearthat you didn't just set out on
a challenging journey once andthen hang your hat on it.
You've really turned it into avocation that by you choosing
hard, you then forge the way forothers to choose hard and
(01:30:48):
ultimately see that they can gofurther and harder than they
believed possible.
And I believe that's what we gottoday.
And it's my wish that ourconversation served as an
invitation for people to forgean iron mind of their own and
win today.
Thank you so much.
Popular Podcasts
Spooky Podcasts from iHeartRadio
Whether you’re a scaredy-cat or a brave bat, this collection of episodes from iHeartPodcasts will put you in the Halloween spirit. Binge stories, frights, and more that may keep you up at night!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.