June 9, 2025 • 22 mins
Submit a question for the podcast (and get a personal reply plus a shoutout). Just go to witsandweights.com/question
--
Tired of hearing "spot reduction is impossible" while still struggling with stubborn belly fat, love handles, or other problem areas?
Spot reduction (the idea that you can target specific fat deposits through isolated exercises) has long been dismissed as physiologically impossible. Yet many of us continue desperately doing endless crunches hoping to melt away belly fat, or countless tricep exercises trying to slim our arms.
The frustration of seeing minimal results leads many to either give up or search for increasingly exotic solutions.
So...is there a way to actually "spot reduce" after all?
Discover why the traditional approach fails and the 3 factors that actually create the results people want from spot reduction (hint: it's not targeting those areas directly).
Main Takeaways:
- Recent research suggests limited spot reduction might be possible, but it's not the solution to stubborn fat
- Stubborn areas have more alpha-2 adrenergic receptors and poor blood flow, making them resistant to fat loss
- Real "spot reduction" happens through strategic muscle building and fat loss cycles over years (not weeks or even months)
- You can't sculpt a pebble, but you can sculpt a boulder - build the foundation first
Related Episodes + Resources:
- Your Very First Cut (Lose 10-30 Pounds of Fat) | Ep 197
- The 3+3 Model of Optimal Fat Loss | Ep 326
- Grab your FREE Muscle-Building Nutrition Blueprint
Timestamps:
0:01 - Stubborn belly fat and "trouble areas"
4:14 - New research on limited spot reduction
6:17 - Why stubborn fat is actually stubborn
7:45 - Common mistakes when targeting problem areas
10:50 - The real way to "spot reduce"
11:34 - Factor #1: Building the foundation (you can't sculpt a pebble)
14:00 - Factor #2: Strategic fat loss phases vs crash dieting
16:19 - Factor #3: Time and patience (the 90% psychology factor)
18:22 - Why muscle building is the game changer
20:13 - How your body becomes a fat-burning system
🎓 Get 2 weeks FREE in Physique University:
https://physique.witsandweights.com/
👥 Join our Facebook community for live Q&As & support
👋 Let's connect! Ask a question, get my FREE newsletter, or find me on Instagram
📱 Try MacroFactor for free with code WITSANDWEIGHTS
🏋️♀️ Download Boostcamp for free for evidence-based workout programs
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Philip Pape (00:01):
You've been told for years that spot reduction is
impossible.
You can't do crunches to losebelly fat, tricep exercises to
lose arm fat or squats to losethigh fat period.
But what if there's actually away to spot reduce, just not how
most people think?
Today we're examining what'sreally happening when people
finally lose stubborn fat afteryears of struggle, why the
(00:23):
traditional approach fails andthe three factors that actually
create the results people wantfrom spot reduction.
The answer isn't in targetingthose areas directly.
So what is the answer?
Tune in to find out.
(00:46):
Welcome to Wits and Weights, theshow that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, certifiednutrition coach, philip Pape,
and today we're tackling one ofthe most persistent questions,
or myths, in the fitness world,and that is can you actually
target stubborn fat areas?
(01:06):
Now, the short answer is no, atleast not how most people think
Traditional spot reduction,where you work one area and the
fat just melts off.
The long answer, though,reveals a different approach
that does deliver the resultspeople want from spot reduction,
but without the frustrationthat most people experience.
And before we get into this,this episode is actually based
(01:28):
on two different listenerquestions that I've smushed
together into one topic and ifyou want to send your question
in and get it featured on thepodcast whether it's training,
nutrition, mindset, buildingyour physique, any of it just go
to witsandweightscom slashquestion and you'll get a
personal response by me by emailand potentially get it featured
(01:48):
on the show and a shout out ifyou'd like.
And again, that'switsandweightscom slash question
.
So that's what we're doingtoday.
We're going to share twolistener questions.
They're almost stories aboutthese listeners that capture
what most people experience withstubborn body fat, and you
might definitely relate to this.
The first one is a 58 year oldguy from the Philippines, uh,
who wrote, quote I've beentraining for a little over six
(02:11):
months now and I've achievedboth my target weight and target
muscle to fat ratio.
I've even developed visiblemuscles on my upper abs.
My problem is that my lower absstill protrude with a healthy
dose of belly fat.
I can't seem to get rid of it.
And then he continued.
He said I don't want to losemore weight as I'm happy where I
am, so I'm hesitant to go onextended calorie deficits.
(02:31):
I'm also concerned that I maylose muscle if I go on extended
calorie deficits To try to losethe belly fat.
I started to do targetedexercises leg lifts, sit-ups,
side pulls, russian twists totry to focus on losing the belly
fat, with no visible progress.
And I picked out this one inparticular because here's a
person who has done a lot of theright things.
He's achieved the weight hewanted and the muscle mass and
(02:54):
body comp, except he has astubborn area of belly fat, and
men and women relate to this indifferent ways, but definitely
starts to occur more and more aswe get older.
So if this sounds familiar, Ithink that's because it captures
what most of us experience.
The other listener and I'm goingto address both all of this
together in one topic.
The other listener is Aubrey,who is 41, and she wrote me on
(03:15):
Instagram.
She said, quote I would love tohear your take on trouble areas
leaning out more with each cutphase.
I think it has to do withcontinued leanness from adding
muscle and maintenance throughthe year and then just having
less fat overall, and then whenI go to cut, it impacts my
trouble areas.
It takes time, so I don't thinkpeople understand that things
can keep improving and bodyshape can change for the better
(03:37):
as years pass on.
And then she added, quote I amin a cut now and I'm seeing
muscle definition in my buttthat I know I've never had
before.
It's like my body said okay,she's mastered the leanness up
top, let's start hacking awaythe lower.
Finally, now, these are twocompletely different experiences
, different stories, but theyall link together in a very
amazing way that we're going toaddress today and kind of look
at what the key is to all ofthis.
(03:58):
And you want to listen to thewhole episode because we're
going to take you through thestory of what the research says,
what's actually going on, whatapproach most people take and
why it doesn't work, and thenthe actual way to do it.
So you're going to want tolisten all the way through if
you want to understand the fullcontext and what to do for your
own situation.
So let's address the elephant inthe room, and that is that
(04:19):
there is recent researchsuggesting some limited spot
reduction might be possible.
Ooh, shocker.
You didn't know.
I'd say that, did you.
There was a study in 2023, Ithink it was actually reviewed
in the May 2020, may or March, Iforget which one 2024 issue of
Body by Science by Bill Campbellthat I had the pleasure of
(04:39):
contributing to as an expertcontributor and it talked about
ab training, but I want to talkabout the study itself.
The study found that combiningab exercises with cardio led to
slightly more trunk fat lossover 10 weeks, and it's a very
tiny bit, but it's interestingNow why this misses.
The point is that even if youcan achieve some small amount of
(05:00):
localized fat loss, it's justnot enough to solve the real
problem people have with thosestubborn areas, and that's why
our first listener question hewas doing everything and still,
even after targeting those areas, it didn't seem to work.
And the real issue is not thatyou need to target them directly
.
The issue is most people aremissing the requirements for
(05:23):
accessing stubborn fat stores inthe first place.
What do I mean?
All right, let's get a littlesciencey here, because here's
what's happening when you havestubborn fat.
Okay and I'm just using thatword a little bit loosely, but
we all know what it means it'sthe areas of fat that seem to be
the last to come off, or maybethey don't even seem to be able
to come off.
They're just like if we lostall the fat in our body, somehow
(05:46):
the stubborn fat's still goingto be there.
Well, what it is is they havemore what's called alpha-2
adrenergic receptors thatinhibit fat breakdown, and they
have poor blood flow.
This is very reminiscent ofvisceral fat around our organs,
for example, and this makes themresistant to fat loss, even in
a calorie deficit.
(06:06):
All right, there's a big caveaton that, because we're gonna
talk about ultimately what ittakes.
A calorie deficit is gonna bepart of the solution,
potentially, but they are moreresistant during a calorie
deficit.
So for men, it's typically thelower abs and the love handles I
feel like.
For me it's my butt, so that'sjust me.
For women, it's my butt, sothat's just me.
(06:31):
For women, it's often the hips,the thighs, the lower body.
But and this is the big but punintended fat loss is still
primarily systemic.
It's system-wide.
Your body mobilizes fat fromthroughout your body, based on
your overall energy balance,your hormones, your muscle mass
and your genetics.
And the reason people getobsessed with spot reduction is
they're looking for a shortcutaround the fundamental
(06:54):
requirements of fat loss.
They want to keep their currentbody composition and just
target the problem area.
And I'm not calling you out toour 58-year-old caller.
He didn't want me to use hisname, so all cool.
I'm not trying to call you outas if you're not-old caller.
He didn't want me to use hisname, so all cool.
I'm not trying to call you outas if you're not trying to do
the right thing.
But it may require more fat lossthan you believe and that's one
of the issues.
What have I told you if thereactually is a way to spot reduce
(07:16):
?
But it requires a differentapproach that works with your
physiology and it takes time.
It's not just a one-and-donething.
So let's talk about.
Let's talk about the differentapproaches.
All right, our 50 year old, 58year old guy from the
Philippines is experiencingexactly what happens when you
try to spot reduce withoutaddressing the underlying issues
.
He's addressed a lot of them,so congrats, kudos to him.
(07:39):
For sure, he is a far ahead ofwhere most people are right now.
So congrats on that big win tobe celebrated.
He's achieved his target weightis muscle to fat ratio, but he
called in, or he wrote in withlower belly fat that he's
frustrated with.
He doesn't want to lose moreweight and he's trying to target
the fat, but the problem is hemay not have enough muscle mass
(07:59):
in his core to reveal thedefinition, even at his current
body fat level.
That's one thing, because ifyou don't train your abs
properly and that's a key word,properly, we'll get to that.
They won't be developed enoughto show, even when you're lean
right.
And that's independent ofgenetic differences, because we
all have different.
Not everybody has a six-packunder there, some have, you know
, eight packs, four packs,different kind of shapes.
(08:22):
So that's the first thing.
He may not have enough musclemass.
Some people think you do.
You said you're at your idealmuscle-to-fat ratio, but usually
it's a lifelong process and youwant to keep adding muscle.
Second, his overall body fatmight still be too high, and
that's probably actually whereI'd go first in his case,
potentially, knowing that he hastrained for a while If you're
brand new, I would definitelylean more toward the muscle side
(08:44):
of the equation.
But his body fat might be toohigh for lower ab definition,
even if his total muscle to fatratio looks good from his
perspective.
Lower abs, the lower section ofthe abs, are typically the last
place that men lose fat and youusually have to get down to
something like 10% to 12% bodyfat or lower to see them clearly
.
So again, not wanting to loseweight piece of it comes into
(09:06):
here with his fears because thenwe have to understand okay,
well, how do we get to thatlevel of leanness if it's not
strictly through losing moreweight or fat?
The third thing here is he'safraid of losing muscle in a
deficit, but I think this fearcould be preventing him from
doing what might be necessary.
So if the reason you and I sayyou, because I wish I could use
(09:28):
your name but if the reason hedoesn't want to lose more weight
is because he thinks he'll losemuscle, well that's an easy
problem, right.
A strategic cut with the propertraining to hold on to muscle,
with enough protein, that's aneasy problem.
We do it all the time.
That's the very definition of afat loss phase, when done
properly, is you're going tolose very little to no muscle.
So if that's the only thingholding you back, then that's
great, because you're gonna begood if you're training, eating
(09:51):
protein, doing all the rightthings, right.
And so I think overall, thisactually represents maybe the
most common mistake people makeis trying to solve a body
composition problem withoutchanging body composition.
And again, I know he's sayinghe wants to improve body
composition but without losingweight.
And you can do that.
You can do that by buildingmore muscle and then losing fat.
(10:11):
That's what I alluded toalready.
But the targeted exercises thathe's doing, um, yeah, they
might build some muscle, doneproperly, but they're not going
to spot reduce the fat.
And I did allude to trainingabs, and of course you want to
do that, but it's not going tobe the only thing you know.
Plus, you have to beprogressively overloading and
actually building that muscle,which we have to confirm that
you're doing.
(10:31):
So that's that's the big uhtakeaway in terms of why things
don't work.
It's if your your body fat'snot low enough, you haven't had
enough muscle or you're afraidto lose weight to reveal the
muscle because of other reasons,like in this case, um, losing
muscle in a deficit, uh, butthat's, and that's that's the
one.
That's one listener.
Now let's look at Aubrey, ourother listener, who wrote in
(10:53):
because she's discovered a, thereal way to spot, reduce, so.
So in her case she's not asked,calling in at a frustration.
She actually wants to share thefact that this can work and I
think that's that's awesome.
Um, and she's done it byimproving body composition
systemically over time.
That's how you actually get theresults people want, but it's
through a different mechanism.
So let's talk about the um.
(11:14):
I'll say three factors fordoing this, because this is
really the.
The money here is what do youdo?
So the first factor is you haveto have a foundation.
I've said before and I stolethis from someone years ago you
can't sculpt a pebble, but youcan sculpt a boulder, and you
need to become that boulderfirst that you can then sculpt
down.
(11:34):
Aubrey mentioned adding muscleand maintenance through the year
.
She said that in her quote inher message to me adding muscle
in maintenance through the yearand I think this is crucial
because you can't reveal whatisn't there.
If you want to find abs, youhave to build abs.
If you want a shapely lowerbody, you have to build those
muscles.
There's nothing to showotherwise, right.
And this means training yourtarget areas like any other
(11:56):
muscle group, with progressiveoverload, sufficient volume and
consistency.
And, yes, you're going to hityour abs, like, let's say, abs.
Specifically, you're going tohit your abs with big compound
lifts.
But then you also want to havesome special ab work in there
once or twice a week, like, likethey say, 10 to 20 hard sets
per week per major muscle group,using exercises that allow you
to add weight or reps over time,like a a loaded ab crunch, for
(12:20):
example, or if you did hangingleg raises, it's increasing your
reps.
But here's the key you have todo this during periods where
you're eating enough to supportmuscle growth.
You cannot build muscle in anaggressive deficit or even a
moderate deficit.
Unless you're totally new tothis, you're not going to build
much muscle, and the amount ofmuscle we want to get this lean
shredded look that I think youguys are going for when we talk
about spot reduction does takeat least one or two cycles of
(12:44):
truly building muscle.
And Aubrey mentioned, you know,doing it at maintenance, like
being in maintenance throughoutmost of the year.
That's a great strategy Ifyou're willing to actually gain
weight and go into a surplus.
That could be even more optimalshort term, especially if
you're on the younger end of thetraining spectrum younger as in
, newer to training, not youngin age.
End of the training spectrum.
(13:04):
Younger as in, newer totraining, not young in age.
So that's the first foundationis building the foundation
becoming the big granite ofmuscle that you can sculpt down
rather than being a skinnypebble that has nowhere to go?
Factor two is then strategic fatloss phases, not crash dieting,
not cutting super aggressively.
(13:25):
Again, going back to Aubrey,she talks about each cut phase
impacting her trouble areas moreeach time she does it and I've
seen that myself.
I've seen that with clients,and that is you have to actually
lose enough fat to reach thosestubborn areas and the first
time you do a fat loss phase youjust may not have enough muscle
and then you may not get leanenough.
But first time you do a fatloss phase you just may not have
(13:45):
enough muscle and then you maynot get lean enough.
But each time you add muscleit's easier to get lean in terms
of you don't necessarily haveto cut down to as low of a body
weight to get lean.
So more muscle, cut fat, moremuscle, cut fat.
That's why we like bulking andcutting generally as an optimal
way to do this.
Again, for most men, lower absthey're not going to show until
you're around 10 to 12% body fat.
I don't like living at thatpercentage.
(14:06):
I usually get down around 14%when I'm pretty lean, like for
the summer, and I have a littlebit of, not a little bit.
My abs are showing but they'renot like super cut because I
don't want to, I don't want todiet down to 10 to 12%.
Generally.
Some clients I have love livingaround you know 8% body fat as
men, or and to the point wheresome of them are even afraid to
(14:27):
gain weight, and that's aseparate issue.
For women, lower body definitionis going to require getting
quite lean.
I'm just sorry to say it, totell you the truth, but it's
usually somewhere around 16 to20% body fat, or potentially
lower for women.
And again, percentage body fatdoesn't directly correlate to
scale weight.
It correlates to how muchmuscle and fat you have.
(14:47):
So of course, if you have moremuscle, you can be at the same
percent body fat at a higherscale weight.
And that's what Aubrey, andthat's what we're trying to get
at here.
It's easier, each cut phase,each bulk, each cut to get there
, and that means accepting thatyou might need to lose more
total weight than you initiallywanted the first time and maybe
(15:08):
less the next time and the timeafter that, not because the
scale number matters, becausethat's what it takes to access
those fat stores.
Listen, your body's going torun out of places to get fat and
then it's eventually going togo to that trouble area and it
may just require getting a lotmore lean than you've ever been.
It may also let's be honestabout it require getting more
lean than you want to be, orthat is super sustainable for
(15:28):
you, and part of that isgenetics.
It's just genetics, but that'sokay.
Anybody can do it.
However, so it's a verystrategic thing and to me, fat
loss needs to be doneintelligently, moderately and
keeping the protein high,continuing to strength train,
planning in diet breaks orrefeeds all of the things we
talk about a lot on this showand recently have covered in
(15:48):
other episodes, like the threeplus three model of optimal fat
loss.
You can go find that one.
I did an episode quite a whileago called your very first cut,
which you can search in the feed.
So that's.
The second factor is doingstrategic fat loss, knowing that
in between you're going to bebuilding muscle and kind of
going back and forth.
And then the final factor heremaybe this is the biggest one
(16:09):
for all of you is time andpatience, and I know you're
rolling your eyes like oh, herehe goes again, but you know how
much of this is just psychology.
90% of it is psychology.
Now, aubrey's been at this forfour and a half years.
Okay, I've been at this forfour or five years four or five
years myself and I have a longway to go to where I could
really be at the place where Ifeel like super lean and it's
(16:31):
easier and I can carry a lotmore body weight.
But if I drew a graph for youup and down with body fat, with
weight, with all the things youwould see it trending toward
being leaner at a higher bodyweight and therefore being
easier to see my abs or get thefat off my butt or whatever.
It doesn't mean that I alwayslive that way.
I live many times with moreweight on my body because I love
(16:52):
to lift and make progress andfeel great as well.
Aubrey said quote things cankeep improving and body shape
can change for the better asyears pass on, and that is what
most people miss.
Real physique transformationhappens through multiple cycles
of building muscle and losingfat over years, not weeks or
months.
I'm sorry.
I know you want the quick fix.
(17:12):
I know you think I've got tolose the weight.
It's not about that.
It's about building muscle andlosing fat.
You have to be training that isa non-negotiable and then each
time you go through one of thesecycles, you build muscle for,
in my opinion, six to 12 monthsand then you cut for maybe eight
to 16 weeks right, that's twoto four months.
And then you maintain for aperiod.
(17:32):
That's improving your bodycomposition at a fundamental
level and being able to see moreof your definition the more you
do it.
So the muscle you build.
How many times do we have totalk on the show about the
benefits?
But it does, it's everything.
It raises your metabolism, itimproves your insulin
sensitivity, it changes how yourbody partitions nutrients right
, and that's what muscle getsyou.
(17:52):
Fat loss phases will get easierand more effective because you
have more of this metabolicallyactive, what we call expensive
muscle tissue.
Right, and you notice.
I didn't even get to thingslike specific exercises, because
at the end of the day, if yousimply do basic strength
training with progressiveoverload, you get stronger, you
(18:14):
build muscle generallysystemically over your body and
then you use nutrition to cutfat, you probably can get to the
leanness you want doing thatalone.
Some of you, because of geneticsor because of a look you're
going for, will definitely wantto specialize and train certain
muscle groups more.
You just will.
There are phenomena that occurwith the body and how it
stretches skin, how it stretchesthe layer of fat on top of
(18:36):
those stubborn areas that we'renot even getting into here
because it's in the weeds, it'sin the noise, it's very
individual and geneticallyspecific, no-transcript.
The one little trick with someof these areas like the abs is,
(18:58):
for some people, they do need tohave loaded ab work, whether
that's hanging, leg raises,reverse crunches, ab wheel
rollouts, what's the other thing?
You know, loaded ab crunches,like there are plenty of ways to
load your abs and make sure tofocus on the area that you care
most about developing, but allyou're doing is you're
potentially increasing themuscle mass a little bit, a
(19:19):
little bit, like we're doing isyou're potentially increasing
the muscle mass a little bit, alittle bit, like we're talking.
You know, millimeters orcentimeters, like it depends on
which one we're talking aboutwhere the real game changer is
going to be how lean you get.
That's just it, I'm sorry tosay, but if you have overall
more muscle mass, you could beoverall more lean at a higher
body weight, and that's whatmakes it really cool over time.
So I think what people reallywant from spot reduction is to
(19:40):
see definition and shape inspecific areas, and the secret?
The secret is that you canachieve this, but not by
targeting those areas directly.
So when you build musclessystematically, when you lose
fat strategically over timesometimes years, I'm sorry to
say it, it just is going to taketime you create what looks and
feels like spot reduction.
Your trouble areas willeventually lean out, not because
(20:02):
you targeted them, but becauseyou've built the foundation that
allows your body to accessthose fat stores effectively.
Because your body is a system,it is integrated.
When you build muscle, you'renot just building that specific
muscle, you're improving theentire metabolic profile of your
body.
When you lose fat, you're notjust losing fat from one area.
You can't even control that.
(20:23):
You're changing your hormonalenvironment, your insulin
sensitivity, your body's entireenergy management system.
And that's why Aubrey, forexample, can see changes in her
fourth year.
She couldn't see in her firstyear.
She hasn't just lost fat, she'ssystemically upgraded her whole
body's operating system, forlack of a better phrase.
Every training session, everymeal, every recovery period is
(20:44):
programming your body for thatlong-term lifestyle, as whatever
phrase works for you athlete,lifter, healthy, person and when
you understand this, thenyou're going to stop looking for
the quick fix, the shortcut,which isn't going to work anyway
.
It's just not going to work,and then you can start building
that foundation and that's thelasting change you're going for.
It's going to take time and theirony is, when you stop trying
(21:04):
to spot reduce and you startfocusing on body composition,
your trouble areas are going tostart responding, not because
you're targeting them, butbecause you've created the
conditions to access those fatstores and that's really all it
is.
So can you spot reduce bellyfat?
No, not in the traditionalsense of targeting directly, but
you can absolutely achieve theresults you want from spot
(21:24):
reduction through buildingmuscle and losing fat over time.
For our 58-year-old guy fromthe Philippines, this might mean
accepting he needs to eitherbuild more muscle or yes, lose
more fat, or do both instrategic cycles.
For Aubrey, she's discovered thereal secret here patience and
consistency over the years, notquick fixes over weeks.
(21:45):
Your stubborn fat areas are notstubborn because you need
better exercises okay, it's notthat.
They're stubborn because youhave to give yourself the time
and patience to build muscle andlose fat.
That's it.
Many people haven't even takentime to build muscle and if
you're one of those, listeningeverything else I talk in this
episode, almost doesn't matteruntil you do that, all right.
(22:07):
If you have any questions aboutbuilding muscle, losing fat,
applying any of these strategieswe talked about, or you have
follow-up questions aboutspecifics, submit them at
witsandweightscom slash question.
You'll get a personal responsefrom me and we'll potentially
feature it on the show, if itmakes sense.
Until next time, keep usingyour wits lifting those weights
and remember your best physiqueis not ever built using
(22:27):
shortcuts.
It is engineered throughpatience, consistency and an
understanding that realtransformation takes time.
I'll talk to you next time hereon the Wits and Weights podcast
.
You've been told for years that spot reduction is
impossible.
You can't do crunches to losebelly fat, tricep exercises to
lose arm fat or squats to losethigh fat period.
But what if there's actually away to spot reduce, just not how
most people think?
Today we're examining what'sreally happening when people
finally lose stubborn fat afteryears of struggle, why the
(00:23):
traditional approach fails andthe three factors that actually
create the results people wantfrom spot reduction.
The answer isn't in targetingthose areas directly.
So what is the answer?
Tune in to find out.
(00:46):
Welcome to Wits and Weights, theshow that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, certifiednutrition coach, philip Pape,
and today we're tackling one ofthe most persistent questions,
or myths, in the fitness world,and that is can you actually
target stubborn fat areas?
(01:06):
Now, the short answer is no, atleast not how most people think
Traditional spot reduction,where you work one area and the
fat just melts off.
The long answer, though,reveals a different approach
that does deliver the resultspeople want from spot reduction,
but without the frustrationthat most people experience.
And before we get into this,this episode is actually based
(01:28):
on two different listenerquestions that I've smushed
together into one topic and ifyou want to send your question
in and get it featured on thepodcast whether it's training,
nutrition, mindset, buildingyour physique, any of it just go
to witsandweightscom slashquestion and you'll get a
personal response by me by emailand potentially get it featured
(01:48):
on the show and a shout out ifyou'd like.
And again, that'switsandweightscom slash question
.
So that's what we're doingtoday.
We're going to share twolistener questions.
They're almost stories aboutthese listeners that capture
what most people experience withstubborn body fat, and you
might definitely relate to this.
The first one is a 58 year oldguy from the Philippines, uh,
who wrote, quote I've beentraining for a little over six
(02:11):
months now and I've achievedboth my target weight and target
muscle to fat ratio.
I've even developed visiblemuscles on my upper abs.
My problem is that my lower absstill protrude with a healthy
dose of belly fat.
I can't seem to get rid of it.
And then he continued.
He said I don't want to losemore weight as I'm happy where I
am, so I'm hesitant to go onextended calorie deficits.
(02:31):
I'm also concerned that I maylose muscle if I go on extended
calorie deficits To try to losethe belly fat.
I started to do targetedexercises leg lifts, sit-ups,
side pulls, russian twists totry to focus on losing the belly
fat, with no visible progress.
And I picked out this one inparticular because here's a
person who has done a lot of theright things.
He's achieved the weight hewanted and the muscle mass and
(02:54):
body comp, except he has astubborn area of belly fat, and
men and women relate to this indifferent ways, but definitely
starts to occur more and more aswe get older.
So if this sounds familiar, Ithink that's because it captures
what most of us experience.
The other listener and I'm goingto address both all of this
together in one topic.
The other listener is Aubrey,who is 41, and she wrote me on
(03:15):
Instagram.
She said, quote I would love tohear your take on trouble areas
leaning out more with each cutphase.
I think it has to do withcontinued leanness from adding
muscle and maintenance throughthe year and then just having
less fat overall, and then whenI go to cut, it impacts my
trouble areas.
It takes time, so I don't thinkpeople understand that things
can keep improving and bodyshape can change for the better
(03:37):
as years pass on.
And then she added, quote I amin a cut now and I'm seeing
muscle definition in my buttthat I know I've never had
before.
It's like my body said okay,she's mastered the leanness up
top, let's start hacking awaythe lower.
Finally, now, these are twocompletely different experiences
, different stories, but theyall link together in a very
amazing way that we're going toaddress today and kind of look
at what the key is to all ofthis.
(03:58):
And you want to listen to thewhole episode because we're
going to take you through thestory of what the research says,
what's actually going on, whatapproach most people take and
why it doesn't work, and thenthe actual way to do it.
So you're going to want tolisten all the way through if
you want to understand the fullcontext and what to do for your
own situation.
So let's address the elephant inthe room, and that is that
(04:19):
there is recent researchsuggesting some limited spot
reduction might be possible.
Ooh, shocker.
You didn't know.
I'd say that, did you.
There was a study in 2023, Ithink it was actually reviewed
in the May 2020, may or March, Iforget which one 2024 issue of
Body by Science by Bill Campbellthat I had the pleasure of
(04:39):
contributing to as an expertcontributor and it talked about
ab training, but I want to talkabout the study itself.
The study found that combiningab exercises with cardio led to
slightly more trunk fat lossover 10 weeks, and it's a very
tiny bit, but it's interestingNow why this misses.
The point is that even if youcan achieve some small amount of
(05:00):
localized fat loss, it's justnot enough to solve the real
problem people have with thosestubborn areas, and that's why
our first listener question hewas doing everything and still,
even after targeting those areas, it didn't seem to work.
And the real issue is not thatyou need to target them directly
.
The issue is most people aremissing the requirements for
(05:23):
accessing stubborn fat stores inthe first place.
What do I mean?
All right, let's get a littlesciencey here, because here's
what's happening when you havestubborn fat.
Okay and I'm just using thatword a little bit loosely, but
we all know what it means it'sthe areas of fat that seem to be
the last to come off, or maybethey don't even seem to be able
to come off.
They're just like if we lostall the fat in our body, somehow
(05:46):
the stubborn fat's still goingto be there.
Well, what it is is they havemore what's called alpha-2
adrenergic receptors thatinhibit fat breakdown, and they
have poor blood flow.
This is very reminiscent ofvisceral fat around our organs,
for example, and this makes themresistant to fat loss, even in
a calorie deficit.
(06:06):
All right, there's a big caveaton that, because we're gonna
talk about ultimately what ittakes.
A calorie deficit is gonna bepart of the solution,
potentially, but they are moreresistant during a calorie
deficit.
So for men, it's typically thelower abs and the love handles I
feel like.
For me it's my butt, so that'sjust me.
For women, it's my butt, sothat's just me.
(06:31):
For women, it's often the hips,the thighs, the lower body.
But and this is the big but punintended fat loss is still
primarily systemic.
It's system-wide.
Your body mobilizes fat fromthroughout your body, based on
your overall energy balance,your hormones, your muscle mass
and your genetics.
And the reason people getobsessed with spot reduction is
they're looking for a shortcutaround the fundamental
(06:54):
requirements of fat loss.
They want to keep their currentbody composition and just
target the problem area.
And I'm not calling you out toour 58-year-old caller.
He didn't want me to use hisname, so all cool.
I'm not trying to call you outas if you're not-old caller.
He didn't want me to use hisname, so all cool.
I'm not trying to call you outas if you're not trying to do
the right thing.
But it may require more fat lossthan you believe and that's one
of the issues.
What have I told you if thereactually is a way to spot reduce
(07:16):
?
But it requires a differentapproach that works with your
physiology and it takes time.
It's not just a one-and-donething.
So let's talk about.
Let's talk about the differentapproaches.
All right, our 50 year old, 58year old guy from the
Philippines is experiencingexactly what happens when you
try to spot reduce withoutaddressing the underlying issues
.
He's addressed a lot of them,so congrats, kudos to him.
(07:39):
For sure, he is a far ahead ofwhere most people are right now.
So congrats on that big win tobe celebrated.
He's achieved his target weightis muscle to fat ratio, but he
called in, or he wrote in withlower belly fat that he's
frustrated with.
He doesn't want to lose moreweight and he's trying to target
the fat, but the problem is hemay not have enough muscle mass
(07:59):
in his core to reveal thedefinition, even at his current
body fat level.
That's one thing, because ifyou don't train your abs
properly and that's a key word,properly, we'll get to that.
They won't be developed enoughto show, even when you're lean
right.
And that's independent ofgenetic differences, because we
all have different.
Not everybody has a six-packunder there, some have, you know
, eight packs, four packs,different kind of shapes.
(08:22):
So that's the first thing.
He may not have enough musclemass.
Some people think you do.
You said you're at your idealmuscle-to-fat ratio, but usually
it's a lifelong process and youwant to keep adding muscle.
Second, his overall body fatmight still be too high, and
that's probably actually whereI'd go first in his case,
potentially, knowing that he hastrained for a while If you're
brand new, I would definitelylean more toward the muscle side
(08:44):
of the equation.
But his body fat might be toohigh for lower ab definition,
even if his total muscle to fatratio looks good from his
perspective.
Lower abs, the lower section ofthe abs, are typically the last
place that men lose fat and youusually have to get down to
something like 10% to 12% bodyfat or lower to see them clearly
.
So again, not wanting to loseweight piece of it comes into
(09:06):
here with his fears because thenwe have to understand okay,
well, how do we get to thatlevel of leanness if it's not
strictly through losing moreweight or fat?
The third thing here is he'safraid of losing muscle in a
deficit, but I think this fearcould be preventing him from
doing what might be necessary.
So if the reason you and I sayyou, because I wish I could use
(09:28):
your name but if the reason hedoesn't want to lose more weight
is because he thinks he'll losemuscle, well that's an easy
problem, right.
A strategic cut with the propertraining to hold on to muscle,
with enough protein, that's aneasy problem.
We do it all the time.
That's the very definition of afat loss phase, when done
properly, is you're going tolose very little to no muscle.
So if that's the only thingholding you back, then that's
great, because you're gonna begood if you're training, eating
(09:51):
protein, doing all the rightthings, right.
And so I think overall, thisactually represents maybe the
most common mistake people makeis trying to solve a body
composition problem withoutchanging body composition.
And again, I know he's sayinghe wants to improve body
composition but without losingweight.
And you can do that.
You can do that by buildingmore muscle and then losing fat.
(10:11):
That's what I alluded toalready.
But the targeted exercises thathe's doing, um, yeah, they
might build some muscle, doneproperly, but they're not going
to spot reduce the fat.
And I did allude to trainingabs, and of course you want to
do that, but it's not going tobe the only thing you know.
Plus, you have to beprogressively overloading and
actually building that muscle,which we have to confirm that
you're doing.
(10:31):
So that's that's the big uhtakeaway in terms of why things
don't work.
It's if your your body fat'snot low enough, you haven't had
enough muscle or you're afraidto lose weight to reveal the
muscle because of other reasons,like in this case, um, losing
muscle in a deficit, uh, butthat's, and that's that's the
one.
That's one listener.
Now let's look at Aubrey, ourother listener, who wrote in
(10:53):
because she's discovered a, thereal way to spot, reduce, so.
So in her case she's not asked,calling in at a frustration.
She actually wants to share thefact that this can work and I
think that's that's awesome.
Um, and she's done it byimproving body composition
systemically over time.
That's how you actually get theresults people want, but it's
through a different mechanism.
So let's talk about the um.
(11:14):
I'll say three factors fordoing this, because this is
really the.
The money here is what do youdo?
So the first factor is you haveto have a foundation.
I've said before and I stolethis from someone years ago you
can't sculpt a pebble, but youcan sculpt a boulder, and you
need to become that boulderfirst that you can then sculpt
down.
(11:34):
Aubrey mentioned adding muscleand maintenance through the year
.
She said that in her quote inher message to me adding muscle
in maintenance through the yearand I think this is crucial
because you can't reveal whatisn't there.
If you want to find abs, youhave to build abs.
If you want a shapely lowerbody, you have to build those
muscles.
There's nothing to showotherwise, right.
And this means training yourtarget areas like any other
(11:56):
muscle group, with progressiveoverload, sufficient volume and
consistency.
And, yes, you're going to hityour abs, like, let's say, abs.
Specifically, you're going tohit your abs with big compound
lifts.
But then you also want to havesome special ab work in there
once or twice a week, like, likethey say, 10 to 20 hard sets
per week per major muscle group,using exercises that allow you
to add weight or reps over time,like a a loaded ab crunch, for
(12:20):
example, or if you did hangingleg raises, it's increasing your
reps.
But here's the key you have todo this during periods where
you're eating enough to supportmuscle growth.
You cannot build muscle in anaggressive deficit or even a
moderate deficit.
Unless you're totally new tothis, you're not going to build
much muscle, and the amount ofmuscle we want to get this lean
shredded look that I think youguys are going for when we talk
about spot reduction does takeat least one or two cycles of
(12:44):
truly building muscle.
And Aubrey mentioned, you know,doing it at maintenance, like
being in maintenance throughoutmost of the year.
That's a great strategy Ifyou're willing to actually gain
weight and go into a surplus.
That could be even more optimalshort term, especially if
you're on the younger end of thetraining spectrum younger as in
, newer to training, not youngin age.
End of the training spectrum.
(13:04):
Younger as in, newer totraining, not young in age.
So that's the first foundationis building the foundation
becoming the big granite ofmuscle that you can sculpt down
rather than being a skinnypebble that has nowhere to go?
Factor two is then strategic fatloss phases, not crash dieting,
not cutting super aggressively.
(13:25):
Again, going back to Aubrey,she talks about each cut phase
impacting her trouble areas moreeach time she does it and I've
seen that myself.
I've seen that with clients,and that is you have to actually
lose enough fat to reach thosestubborn areas and the first
time you do a fat loss phase youjust may not have enough muscle
and then you may not get leanenough.
But first time you do a fatloss phase you just may not have
(13:45):
enough muscle and then you maynot get lean enough.
But each time you add muscleit's easier to get lean in terms
of you don't necessarily haveto cut down to as low of a body
weight to get lean.
So more muscle, cut fat, moremuscle, cut fat.
That's why we like bulking andcutting generally as an optimal
way to do this.
Again, for most men, lower absthey're not going to show until
you're around 10 to 12% body fat.
I don't like living at thatpercentage.
(14:06):
I usually get down around 14%when I'm pretty lean, like for
the summer, and I have a littlebit of, not a little bit.
My abs are showing but they'renot like super cut because I
don't want to, I don't want todiet down to 10 to 12%.
Generally.
Some clients I have love livingaround you know 8% body fat as
men, or and to the point wheresome of them are even afraid to
(14:27):
gain weight, and that's aseparate issue.
For women, lower body definitionis going to require getting
quite lean.
I'm just sorry to say it, totell you the truth, but it's
usually somewhere around 16 to20% body fat, or potentially
lower for women.
And again, percentage body fatdoesn't directly correlate to
scale weight.
It correlates to how muchmuscle and fat you have.
(14:47):
So of course, if you have moremuscle, you can be at the same
percent body fat at a higherscale weight.
And that's what Aubrey, andthat's what we're trying to get
at here.
It's easier, each cut phase,each bulk, each cut to get there
, and that means accepting thatyou might need to lose more
total weight than you initiallywanted the first time and maybe
(15:08):
less the next time and the timeafter that, not because the
scale number matters, becausethat's what it takes to access
those fat stores.
Listen, your body's going torun out of places to get fat and
then it's eventually going togo to that trouble area and it
may just require getting a lotmore lean than you've ever been.
It may also let's be honestabout it require getting more
lean than you want to be, orthat is super sustainable for
(15:28):
you, and part of that isgenetics.
It's just genetics, but that'sokay.
Anybody can do it.
However, so it's a verystrategic thing and to me, fat
loss needs to be doneintelligently, moderately and
keeping the protein high,continuing to strength train,
planning in diet breaks orrefeeds all of the things we
talk about a lot on this showand recently have covered in
(15:48):
other episodes, like the threeplus three model of optimal fat
loss.
You can go find that one.
I did an episode quite a whileago called your very first cut,
which you can search in the feed.
So that's.
The second factor is doingstrategic fat loss, knowing that
in between you're going to bebuilding muscle and kind of
going back and forth.
And then the final factor heremaybe this is the biggest one
(16:09):
for all of you is time andpatience, and I know you're
rolling your eyes like oh, herehe goes again, but you know how
much of this is just psychology.
90% of it is psychology.
Now, aubrey's been at this forfour and a half years.
Okay, I've been at this forfour or five years four or five
years myself and I have a longway to go to where I could
really be at the place where Ifeel like super lean and it's
(16:31):
easier and I can carry a lotmore body weight.
But if I drew a graph for youup and down with body fat, with
weight, with all the things youwould see it trending toward
being leaner at a higher bodyweight and therefore being
easier to see my abs or get thefat off my butt or whatever.
It doesn't mean that I alwayslive that way.
I live many times with moreweight on my body because I love
(16:52):
to lift and make progress andfeel great as well.
Aubrey said quote things cankeep improving and body shape
can change for the better asyears pass on, and that is what
most people miss.
Real physique transformationhappens through multiple cycles
of building muscle and losingfat over years, not weeks or
months.
I'm sorry.
I know you want the quick fix.
(17:12):
I know you think I've got tolose the weight.
It's not about that.
It's about building muscle andlosing fat.
You have to be training that isa non-negotiable and then each
time you go through one of thesecycles, you build muscle for,
in my opinion, six to 12 monthsand then you cut for maybe eight
to 16 weeks right, that's twoto four months.
And then you maintain for aperiod.
(17:32):
That's improving your bodycomposition at a fundamental
level and being able to see moreof your definition the more you
do it.
So the muscle you build.
How many times do we have totalk on the show about the
benefits?
But it does, it's everything.
It raises your metabolism, itimproves your insulin
sensitivity, it changes how yourbody partitions nutrients right
, and that's what muscle getsyou.
(17:52):
Fat loss phases will get easierand more effective because you
have more of this metabolicallyactive, what we call expensive
muscle tissue.
Right, and you notice.
I didn't even get to thingslike specific exercises, because
at the end of the day, if yousimply do basic strength
training with progressiveoverload, you get stronger, you
(18:14):
build muscle generallysystemically over your body and
then you use nutrition to cutfat, you probably can get to the
leanness you want doing thatalone.
Some of you, because of geneticsor because of a look you're
going for, will definitely wantto specialize and train certain
muscle groups more.
You just will.
There are phenomena that occurwith the body and how it
stretches skin, how it stretchesthe layer of fat on top of
(18:36):
those stubborn areas that we'renot even getting into here
because it's in the weeds, it'sin the noise, it's very
individual and geneticallyspecific, no-transcript.
The one little trick with someof these areas like the abs is,
(18:58):
for some people, they do need tohave loaded ab work, whether
that's hanging, leg raises,reverse crunches, ab wheel
rollouts, what's the other thing?
You know, loaded ab crunches,like there are plenty of ways to
load your abs and make sure tofocus on the area that you care
most about developing, but allyou're doing is you're
potentially increasing themuscle mass a little bit, a
(19:19):
little bit, like we're doing isyou're potentially increasing
the muscle mass a little bit, alittle bit, like we're talking.
You know, millimeters orcentimeters, like it depends on
which one we're talking aboutwhere the real game changer is
going to be how lean you get.
That's just it, I'm sorry tosay, but if you have overall
more muscle mass, you could beoverall more lean at a higher
body weight, and that's whatmakes it really cool over time.
So I think what people reallywant from spot reduction is to
(19:40):
see definition and shape inspecific areas, and the secret?
The secret is that you canachieve this, but not by
targeting those areas directly.
So when you build musclessystematically, when you lose
fat strategically over timesometimes years, I'm sorry to
say it, it just is going to taketime you create what looks and
feels like spot reduction.
Your trouble areas willeventually lean out, not because
(20:02):
you targeted them, but becauseyou've built the foundation that
allows your body to accessthose fat stores effectively.
Because your body is a system,it is integrated.
When you build muscle, you'renot just building that specific
muscle, you're improving theentire metabolic profile of your
body.
When you lose fat, you're notjust losing fat from one area.
You can't even control that.
(20:23):
You're changing your hormonalenvironment, your insulin
sensitivity, your body's entireenergy management system.
And that's why Aubrey, forexample, can see changes in her
fourth year.
She couldn't see in her firstyear.
She hasn't just lost fat, she'ssystemically upgraded her whole
body's operating system, forlack of a better phrase.
Every training session, everymeal, every recovery period is
(20:44):
programming your body for thatlong-term lifestyle, as whatever
phrase works for you athlete,lifter, healthy, person and when
you understand this, thenyou're going to stop looking for
the quick fix, the shortcut,which isn't going to work anyway
.
It's just not going to work,and then you can start building
that foundation and that's thelasting change you're going for.
It's going to take time and theirony is, when you stop trying
(21:04):
to spot reduce and you startfocusing on body composition,
your trouble areas are going tostart responding, not because
you're targeting them, butbecause you've created the
conditions to access those fatstores and that's really all it
is.
So can you spot reduce bellyfat?
No, not in the traditionalsense of targeting directly, but
you can absolutely achieve theresults you want from spot
(21:24):
reduction through buildingmuscle and losing fat over time.
For our 58-year-old guy fromthe Philippines, this might mean
accepting he needs to eitherbuild more muscle or yes, lose
more fat, or do both instrategic cycles.
For Aubrey, she's discovered thereal secret here patience and
consistency over the years, notquick fixes over weeks.
(21:45):
Your stubborn fat areas are notstubborn because you need
better exercises okay, it's notthat.
They're stubborn because youhave to give yourself the time
and patience to build muscle andlose fat.
That's it.
Many people haven't even takentime to build muscle and if
you're one of those, listeningeverything else I talk in this
episode, almost doesn't matteruntil you do that, all right.
(22:07):
If you have any questions aboutbuilding muscle, losing fat,
applying any of these strategieswe talked about, or you have
follow-up questions aboutspecifics, submit them at
witsandweightscom slash question.
You'll get a personal responsefrom me and we'll potentially
feature it on the show, if itmakes sense.
Until next time, keep usingyour wits lifting those weights
and remember your best physiqueis not ever built using
(22:27):
shortcuts.
It is engineered throughpatience, consistency and an
understanding that realtransformation takes time.
I'll talk to you next time hereon the Wits and Weights podcast
.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!