My Escape from Low-Carb Diets to More Energy, Muscle, and Fat Loss | Ep 322 - Wits & Weights | Fat Loss, Nutrition, & Strength Training for Lifters

Episode Transcript
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Philip Pape (00:01):
If you feel like you are stuck eating low carb,
even though you know deep down,carbs might not be evil, this
episode is for you.
Today, I'm sharing my personaljourney from strict keto and
paleo to eating hundreds ofgrams of carbs daily.
You'll learn exactly how Iovercame the biggest obstacle to
change, which wasn'tinformation.
It was really about my identity.

(00:22):
I'll reveal the physicalchanges I experienced as I
reintroduced carbs, the mentalobstacles I had to overcome and
the practical strategies thatfinally helped me break free, so
you can do the same.
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a

(00:43):
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, philip Pape, andtoday's episode's a bit
different because I am actuallyinterviewing myself, which I'm
always hesitant to do in termsof sharing my personal journey.
But people are always askingand I think it's important to
understand that we all strugglewith the same things, just in

(01:04):
different ways.
I personally used to have verystrict diets.
I've done everything fromSlimFast and Atkins way back in
the day to strict keto, paleo,various low-carb diets and even
other weird diets that areprobably outside the scope of
today's episode, and today I eateasily over 300 grams of carbs

(01:24):
every day, with betterperformance, with more muscle,
with zero guilt.
I love to eat food now and Ican enjoy it and make progress,
and I've worked with hundreds ofclients who are able to do the
same, some of whom were very,very hesitant to introduce carbs
, some of who even introducedmore carbs and said whoa, what
is going on with you?

(01:45):
On with bloating or quickweight gain, or things that are
explainable but very frustratingand hard to wrap your head
around until you understand howcarbs work in those transition
periods, and I want to try totouch on those different things
today.
But what I did is I posted inour Facebook community, which is
free.
You guys can join it, use thelink to join anytime.
And I asked you all hey, whatwould you ask me?

(02:07):
Facebook community, which isfree.
You guys can join it, use thelink to join anytime.
And I asked you all hey, whatwould you ask me if this was an
interview about that topic?
And you sent me a ton ofquestions and effectively going
to ask myself those questionstoday and answer them more or
less off the cuff, as if it wasan interview.
I would be remiss if I didn'tsay this episode wasn't inspired
by one person in particular andthat was a listener, alex B,
who asked a really insightfulquestion that resonated with me

(02:29):
and I actually sat on it for afew months before I recorded
this episode, because it soundedlike a heavy topic for me to
tackle and she wrote aboutstruggling to bridge that gap
between knowing the sciencebehind carbs right, many of you
know the science, or you'veheard the show and you know it.
Many of you don't.
You're new to the show, oryou're new to evidence-based
nutrition and maybe still thinkthere's a problem with carbs

(02:51):
they're evil, they make you getfat, whatever and kind of having
that knowledge, but then stillfinding it difficult to break
your old habits or let yourselfgive into it and experiment with
these because of these oldhabits, whether it's keto, paleo
or something else and honestly,this could apply to any
restrictive diet carnivore,veganism, vegetarianism,

(03:12):
whatever that you've imposed onyourself because you think it's
the right thing to do from ahealth perspective Not from a
values-based perspective that'sa different topic but just from
a health perspective because ofwhat you've heard or read.
Or maybe you've gotten someshort-term results or others
have gotten some of thoseresults, and so today isn't
about spewing more informationat you.
I have plenty of shows that dothat.

(03:33):
It's actually about how youchange your behavior despite the
fear, despite the identityyou've built, despite years of
conditioning.
Sometimes we conditionourselves, sometimes our
upbringing and society and thecontent we consume has
conditioned us, and so that'swhat we're going to do today.

(03:55):
Right, and again, I reached outto our Facebook group and they
sent me some fantastic questions.
We're going to cover those.
So, before we get into it, ifyou enjoy the show in general,
if you want to connect withpeople who like these sorts of
topics and really to dig in andunderstand their identity, who
want to know what works for them, who want to personalize in and
not just be given macros ortemplates, that's what we do in
our community.
It's a free community.

(04:16):
It's called Wits and Weights.
In Facebook I will give you thelink to click in the show notes
, and that is a place where wehave these conversations.
We support each other throughour transitions of nutrition
experience right, we share ourwins, we get our questions
answered, we deal with sometough, vulnerable topics as well
and in a I hate to use the wordsafe space, but effectively

(04:37):
it's a nonjudgmental place whereyou know anybody who's negative
and doesn't need to be,generally gets the boot.
So if you're looking for asupportive place, that's it.
If you want to get away fromthe politics and the negativity,
that's where it happens andthat's where this stuff came
from for today's episode.
So just head to Facebook andsearch for Wits and Weights, or
just click the link in the shownotes request to join, and I'd

(04:59):
love to see you in there.
All right, so we're going tostart with the origin story.
Right?
Every hero's journey and I'mnot calling myself a hero, I
just love the idea of the hero'sjourney from, for example, star
Wars or really any great storyarc starts with the origin story
.
What first attracted me to lowcarb diets and there are a lot

(05:20):
of them out there.
When we say low carb, what dowe mean?
We mean that control forcalories, or maybe maybe
sometimes you have no idea whatthe calories are.
You're trying to reduce theamount of carbs you eat and
increase your protein and orfats.
Right, the three macros carbs,protein, fats was throw it on

(05:47):
the wall and see what sticks andsee if it works.
Based on the content I wasconsuming, which tended to be in
the early days, you know, dietbooks from Barnes and Noble or
random forums on the internet,maybe some influencers here and
there, although I was neverreally into social media, so
that wasn't a thing for me.
You know, five, 10 years agowe're talking, we're talking
from the early two thousands tolike the late 20 teens, and I

(06:08):
also I never really had aconcrete goal, other than I'm
unhappy with my body.
I'm a little bit fluffy attimes or skinny, fat, frumpy.
Didn't like how I looked in,you know, at the pool without my
shirt on and I just had a bunchof insecurities around that,
and so I would primarily befocused on losing weight.
Let's just put it that way.
Like many of us are, I didn'tthink about energy, health, any

(06:30):
of that, especially when I wasyounger and so in the early
2000s, the first diet experienceI could remember is during
college, on my internship.
This is around the year 2000.
I was, I believe now inhindsight, emotionally eating
due to some things that happenedthat I'm not going to go into
details on some personalrelationship things that

(06:51):
happened at a young age, and Iwouldn't say I was depressed,
but I was definitely findingcomfort in food and it would be
things that had a lot ofcalories, like uh, you guys know
friendlies there.
They started up here inMassachusetts, I'm in
Connecticut, and they have these, um, ice cream Sundays.
Right, I love ice cream stillto this day and I now I still
enjoy ice cream.
But I would get these massiveReese's peanut butter cup Sunday

(07:13):
things, which you look at thecalories Now, they're probably
like 1500 calories and I wouldhave that just about every day.
I like I'll put it this way, Icouldn't help myself, right?
You guys know that experienceand I gained a lot of weight,
let's just put it that way.
I went from about averaging 165at 5'9 to about 210 pounds.
Okay, totally unchecked, notraining, no exercise, none of

(07:33):
that.
And a lot of the gurus I hadbeen following at the time were
around the Atkins community, andso when I got back to college
for my junior year, I said I'mgoing to do this thing and I out
all fruit, vegetables, anythingthat was a carb.
I basically ate meat without abun and, oh man, I can't even

(07:53):
remember it was like literallyjust meat.
Okay, it almost reminds me ofcarnivore.
And what would happen is Istarted to lose a lot of weight.
Of course you do, because whathappens when you cut out carbs.
What happens when you cut outmost processed foods, you lose a
lot of water weight because ofthe carbs, but you also cut your
calories significantly and so Ilost a lot of weight, but I
also had some very unpleasantdigestive side effects, let's

(08:16):
just say.
And the other thing is, whenyou have a higher fat diet, we
do know that it can help withsatiety, even though today I
recommend using protein andfiber for satiety.
That is fullness.
We do know from the ketocommunity, for example in
carnivore, that fat can besatiating as well, and so I was
able to go through my day notfeeling too hungry, suppress my

(08:37):
appetite, I had a lot of water,weight loss, a lot of scale
drops due to the lack ofcalories and, you know, I
gradually brought it down towhere my scale weight was maybe
in the 170s again and Idefinitely felt better about
myself, finding that somethingcould work and I knew something
was behind it.
But I never.
I didn't know calories, Ididn't know macros, I didn't
know any of that stuff back then.
And also, um, the other thingthat comes to mind is how we

(09:00):
defined the carb.
So back then, to me any carbwas bad right, like carb equated
to sugar, equated to bad,equated to, that's how you get
fat.
I believed it to the extentthat I didn't even know about
calories or energy.
Right Now we're much moreeducated on that, given social
media, and people will still say, oh no, it's not about energy
balance, it's about the types ofcalories or it's about carbs

(09:22):
specifically, regardless ofenergy balance, and that's just
false.
Like we know, energy balance isbehind whether you gain or lose
weight.
Macros and nutrients come intoplay with a lot of other factors
like body composition, energy,digestive health, all the other
things, right.
So that was my first foray intolow carbs.
I didn't know why it worked, Ijust know it worked and I

(09:42):
probably sustained that for acouple of years and then I
realized I didn't like to eatjust hamburger patties right,
and I'm kind of oversimplifying,but effectively was that
simplistic of a diet, whichmeans it was that highly
restrictive of a diet.
Going into my twenties and eventhirties, new diets started to
pop up.
Okay, and I want to say, forabout a five to 10 year period,

(10:02):
I didn't even diet at all, Ijust ate whatever.
And I gained a bunch of weight.
And this was into when I gotmarried in the mid, that was
2006.
And then around 2000, I want tosay eight, nine I discovered
paleo.
I think that was around thetime I discovered primal paleo

(10:23):
and I just jumped in whole hoginto that world, the idea of
ancestral health, of, okay, well, our ancestors didn't have
access to grains or dairy, so ofcourse they couldn't eat those
things they also ate.
They were opportunists.
So they hunted and gathered andthey they had this feast or
famine approach and I basicallywent all in on no grains, no
dairy, which basically meanslittle to no carbs.
Because, yeah, you can canquote, unquote eat fruit, but I

(10:49):
didn't eat a lot of fruit orveggies at the time.
I was very picky, see, that'sthe other part of this but I did
, I did that's what they say Idid paleo and I did that for
probably five to 10 years andthat was the most dogmatic, I'll
say religious zealotry that Igot into when it came to a diet.
I had probably like 20 books onpaleo.
I had all these recipe booksand I have to say you can make a

(11:09):
lot of great meals when you'rethinking paleo, because it's a
lot of meat and vegetables.
During that time my wife helpedme get past my pickiness when
it came to vegetables, let's say, and that's a whole other story
, but it was helpful that I wasincorporating those and I was
eating a lot of whole foods andit was.
There was a lot of things I wasadding in as a result of payload

(11:30):
.
That, I would say, is a goodthing.
I would say it's a good thingthat is lean meats and
vegetables and fruits, you know,whole foods uh, eggs, I believe
, but I wasn't eating dairy andI wasn't eating actually I
forget about eggs, but I know itwasn't eating any grains
whatsoever which, in my mind,was carbs.
And I want to take a littleside tangent here, because carbs

(11:54):
are highly misused as a term.
Carbohydrates are found inapples and they're also found in
Snickers, but you know, whatelse is found in Snickers Is
lots of fat and sugar.
Now, you could say, well, sugaris a carb, yes, but lots and
lots of added sugars in a formthat has been engineered
beautifully to look good, totaste good, to have a

(12:15):
multi-sensory, time-based,almost orgasmic experience when
you eat it.
And I'm serious, you guys knowwhat I'm talking about.
Pick your most favoritedelicious, indulgent thing, I
don't care how processed it is.
Okay.
I use Snickers as an example,because of the way it's designed
.
The way it's designed withlayers of chocolate and caramel
and peanuts nugget I don't evenknow that's in there, maybe not,

(12:35):
but different layers to andit's pre-processed.
Now, this is the disgustingthing about a lot of
ultra-processed foods is they'reeffectively ground up
ingredients that are smushedtogether in an engineered way to
be highly palatable, deliciousand easily consumed, and then
you're still hungry and you wantto eat more, and hence the
slogan you can't have just one.
So when you think of carbs, doyou think of pizza and ice cream

(12:59):
and donuts and Doritos, or doyou think of oats and rice and
apples and potatoes?
Big difference, right?
However, the anti-carbgroupthink lumps them all
together, and when people say Icut carbs, I'm like what do you
mean?
So I want you to ask yourselfthat question what do you mean?
So for me, they were all poison, they were all lumped together,

(13:20):
they were all like sugar in mymind, including fruits, and we
know that's not the case today.
So I did that and at the sametime, I started CrossFit.
I've talked about CrossFitbefore early on in one of my
earliest podcasts.
I did that for about eightyears, from like 2010 to 2018.
And throughout that, most ofthat time, I also stuck with
some version of paleo or lowcarb, eventually getting more

(13:42):
into the keto side of things,which there's not a lot of
differences, I'll be honest.
It's basically a high fatapproach that didn't really
account for protein or calories.
It was just what can't you eat,what can you not eat, what do
you have to cut out?
And so I, and throughout thiswhole time I more or less
maintained my weight, but I wasalso doing CrossFit and a lot of
cardio and I was kind ofstressed out from the workouts a

(14:02):
bit, didn't really look forwardto them usually and it didn't
do anything for my physique atall.
Right, like I could lift.
When I started, I probablycould squat, you know, 95 pounds
or something small like that.
And then by the time I wasquote unquote done with CrossFit
, I was only up to 225 on mysquat.
That.
And then by the time I wasquote unquote done with CrossFit
, I was only up to 225 on mysquat.
And I hear stories like this allthe time Unless you focus on
strength, you're not going toget it up.
You know, currently my squat isover 300.

(14:25):
My deadlift is over 400.
My bench is well over 200,right, just the numbers you
would expect from even averagestrength for somebody who's
doing strength training, and Iwish I started earlier, but I
didn't.
But that's a whole differentthing.
When we talk about training,however, it's important because
I wasn't training the right wayand therefore I wasn't thinking
of eating to train the right way, and I never knew that carbs

(14:45):
could be beneficial, nor was Itraining in a way where they
were going to be that beneficial, if that makes sense.
In other words, the vastmajority of the population is
either sedentary or they'reactive, but not in a purposeful
way, such that they're notutilizing carbs in the way that
carbs can be highly effective,which we're going to get into in
this episode and why I wantedto do this.
So that brings me to the nextpart of the story, which is the

(15:09):
breaking point, and here's myfirst question from a listener,
where Tony asked, afteressentially being anti-carb,
what cracked that shell?
So in late 2019, I would saythe breaking point is ironic.
And it's ironic because ithappened around Halloween, which
is around the same time as mybirthday, and I decided yet

(15:32):
again to go cold turkey fromcarbs, and I did it by avoiding
the candy drawer.
So I had gotten into a habit ofI don't want to say sneaking,
but those of us who understandemotional eating, you do it in a
way that you feel guilty, right, you feel like I know I
shouldn't be doing this, but I'mgoing to do it anyway.
I can help myself F it, I'malready doing it.

(15:53):
And then each day it's like youthink you're going to reset and
you don't right.
Can you relate?
So for me it was all sorts ofsnacks, but especially candy,
which you know people say that'slike eating like a kid.
Well, yeah, a lot of us.
That's what we're doing, theway we eat, right.
So I would take the candy outof the candy drawer and of
course that means I wasdeliberately going out and
buying it to put there.

(16:15):
I didn't have the restraint likemy wife did in terms of eating,
just eating anything inmoderation.
She's great at that, she'sreally good at that.
Just, I'll say, naturally she'salways been that way and I'm
not, so I can overeat.
And that Halloween slashbirthday.
I said, okay, I'm done, I'm notgoing to have the candy for
Halloween, I'm going to go coldturkey.
And I did that for about two orthree months Again thinking I

(16:37):
need to cut out carbs.
That is going to be thesolution.
But oh, did I feel miserable,did I feel awful not being able
to eat all the things during theholidays.
I didn't have energy, I didn'tfeel like doing my CrossFit,
like the whole thing.
And so the turning point cameand this is to answer Tony's
question.
It took time, right, it wasn'tlike a black and white is, with

(16:58):
the mental fatigue and theperformance stalls and being
unhappy about my body and thesocial rigidity and like all of
this stuff.
I said, man, there's got to besomething better, because I see
people out there succeeding.
I even see guys in what was theCrossFit gym and now is more of
a strength and conditioning gymwith great physiques.
They seem energized, like maybeit's just genetics.
I had always thought that tothat point, like it's just

(17:19):
genetics.
So I asked my trainer again.
I've I've talked about thisstory before, so I'm not going
to get too far into it, but Iasked my trainer, andrew, like
what do I need to do to get abetter physique?
And kind of figure this out.
And that's when he turned me onto.
He's like you just need to liftfor strength, big lifts,
progress over time.
Let's forget all the wads, youknow the workouts of the day,

(17:40):
forget all the conditioning,just go for strength.
And that got me down the pathof going to Google and YouTube
and podcasts and learning aboutstrength.
And it turned me on to guyslike Eric Trexler and Annie
Morgan with their muscle andstrength pyramids, to starting
strength, of course, and to thatwhole world, eventually into
the nutrition side of it about ayear after that, which I'm
getting to.
So what shifted is I started totrain for strength.

(18:05):
The pandemic hit.
That's kind of a almost anafterthought at this point, but
it did cause me to have to buildmy home gym for the first time
instead of go to the gym, whichis cool because to this day,
that's what I have.
I got a power rack, I got a bar, I got a plate it's all that
fun stuff and started to trainSquats, deadlifts, presses,
overheads, just cranking thenumbers up, and I heard that you
had to eat a lot of food.

(18:25):
So I just said forget thislow-carb stuff, forget any diet,
I'm just going to try to gainweight.
It sounded really liberatingactually to just gain weight and
not care about it, because Ithought, well, now, this is a
purposeful gain, even though itwas not done optimally by any
stretch of the imagination.
So, yeah, a lot of whole milkin there.
I started consuming a lot moreprotein because that was part of

(18:48):
it was oh, I actually need thatmuch protein.
You guys know what I'm talkingabout.
You know that one gram perpound, or even 0.8 grams per
pound, when you are not payingattention to your protein your
whole life, you realize you arewoefully under eating that stuff
.
So, adding more protein, inadding more, I had more whole
milk, more fat, more carbs, moreeverything, and I started to
gain.
I started to gain, gain, gainstarted to grow, but my girth

(19:10):
started to grow as well.
Okay, and I always tell thisstory on other podcasts but,
like after, I gained a bunch ofstrength and muscle during that
first newbie phase of about ayear.
That's when I realized well, nowI really need to understand
even more about nutrition,because there's got to be a way
to lean out.
And that's where I learnedabout macros, flexible dieting

(19:31):
and the fact that we don't eatto lose weight.
We eat to support our energy,we eat to support our metabolism
, we eat to perform, to feelgreat, to manipulate our
physique, at times right To liftoptimally in the gym all of
that stuff.
And so again, shout out to you,tony, because you were there

(19:52):
from early on when I got intothe coaching side of things and
to this day, push me and alsoand you will admit this are one
of the people who are a littlebit afraid of carbs yourself,
and it took a while even toconvince you right that they
would be helpful.
You had to experiment with itback off a bit and then
experiment again back off untilyou realize wait a minute, when
I have more carbs I tend toperform better.

(20:14):
They're the body's preferredfuel under load.
They're the body's stressreliever.
They provide you the glycogenyou need.
They are anti-catabolic, theyprevent the breakdown of muscle
tissue All the wonderfulbenefits of carbs that I've
talked about on multipleepisodes.
Just go search my podcast feedfor carbs and, like once I

(20:34):
realized that I could eat andlose weight on the scale, which
I still was fixated on early on.
I didn't quite understand fatloss versus weight loss and body
composition.
It wasn't until I read a bookby Elaine Norton I think it's
called Fat Loss Forever where Ilearned all about body fat
overshooting.
You looked at the studies aboutthe biggest loser, all of it
started to come together.
I said, oh wow.

(20:54):
So now that I'm strengthtraining and focused on muscle
and strength, now that I'meating for fuel and for how I
feel and perform, and now that Iknow calories are the dial to
gain and lose weight, it allcame together.
Keep the protein high,manipulate the carbs lower,
because carbs do get pretty lowdepending on your calories and

(21:20):
fat loss and that is how I couldget the physique that I want
and I started to improve.
I'll say quickly but don't bemisled that you can totally
change your whole transformationin six months.
It doesn't work that way.
It does take time.
I would say your first year,though, you're going to see a
meaningful change, but then thereal like kind of looking a

(21:40):
little bit jacked or having thatsix pack, whatever that starts
to happen more in the years twoand three, like just to be
realistic, unless you alreadyhave a good starting point or
you have a history of this.
You know you're pretty lean,whatever, so kind of answer the
question.
The aha moment took me a yearand a half to realize that carbs
were just a great tool and theywere useful and they were

(22:01):
helpful, and it took me like twoor three more years of doing
this podcast, researching andcoaching clients, to be able to
express that right, to be ableto talk about it in a way that
made sense.
So that's why a lot of you arelistening and I wanted to do
this podcast, because it's notnecessarily easily accepted by
society or even by you listeningright, and I'm not here to

(22:22):
convince you, I'm just trying tohear it tell my story.
So then this brings me to thenext part of the story, where
I'm going to answer Alex'soriginal question to me, and she
said hi, you've mentioned ourprevious, or your previous keto
paleo adherence and how you'vesince learned better and, more
importantly, done better.
My question is how you bridgethe gap between knowledge and
implementation.
I'm someone who knows thescience behind carbs, but I

(22:45):
still really struggle to breakmy old keto paleo habits and
include anything more thannon-starchy vegetables and a
little fruit.
So there's a lot in thatquestion, alex, and this is why
I wanted to talk to you andeveryone today, and I kind of
answered it somewhat already.
But I would say first of all,the habits that were hardest to

(23:05):
break were thinking of food withlike a moral judgment that
anytime I saw anything withcarbs that was a no-no right,
that I had to avoid it.
And so I think the biggest gamechanger for me and this helps a
lot of people that I work withis the idea of additive
nutrition, of adding in thethings you need along with the

(23:28):
things you want.
So both In other words, beingintentional In the past and many
of you listening you're notintentional about it, and by
intentional I don't mean you'reintentional about cutting out a
bunch of foods.
No, I mean you're intentionalabout it.
And by intentional I don't meanyou just you're intentional
about cutting out a bunch offoods.
No, I mean you're intentionalabout why you eat what you eat
and including those in, and sofor me that was okay.
I know that I need to eat morecarbs before and after I train,

(23:49):
along with protein, becausethat's going to support my
training.
I'm going to feel better.
I know it might help to havecarbs at dinner because it's
going to help me sleep better,and I know that I only need so
much protein and fat, and if therest of the calories come from
carbs, then carbs may be a lothigher than I used to eat.
And now I have to find how toget them right, like it's those
kinds of anchors, I would say.
And I still had anxiety aroundcarbs for a while, I would say,

(24:16):
because I had gained all thatweight while lifting properly.
I was wondering how much ofthat was associated with carbs.
And I hear guys still onpodcasts say well, you just got
to cut out carbs, that's how youeat better.
And again, they're not talkingabout carbs, they're talking
about carb, sugar, fatcombinations, like processed
foods, like pizza and whatnot,and but instead of thinking that
I have to cut them out, I thinkwhat do I need to add in?
And then what's left?

(24:41):
And I can still enjoy otherfoods.
And so where I'm going with allthis, alex, is you know you said
it's hard for me to break myold habits, including anything
more than non-starchy vegetablesand little fruit.
I would reflect on your like,the psychological flexibility
and your identity around that.
For example, what are youavoiding?
What are you avoiding and why?
So?

(25:01):
When I think about yourstruggle to break old habits,
what comes to mind is thingslike habit loops.
I don't know if you're familiarwith Atomic Habits by James
Clear, but the reward, thetrigger, reward type cues, the
loop, the habit loops andinstead of thinking of carbs as
this generic blob of a thing outthere, be intentional.

(25:22):
Ask yourself first, alex, whatis it about keto and paleo that
you are still sticking to?
Like, think about the habitthat you are still doing Because
you said you don't want toinclude more than non-starchy
vegetables and a little fruit.
So like, excuse me, does thatmean grains?
That you don't want to includegrains for some reason?
And I had to break that loopwhen it came to paleo because I

(25:43):
always thought grains.
And then I would tie it intothis whole rationale or
justification about howancestors didn't have access to
that.
And they have phytonutrientsand they have anti-nutrients,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then I had to slowly learnabout the science of
carbohydrates and the fact thatconsuming grains is perfectly
acceptable if you can tolerateit.
Some people can tolerate gluten, some can't, some people
tolerate other grains, somecan't, right, and that for me,

(26:03):
when I consumed those things, Ididn't seem to feel any worse,
like didn't seem to affect mydigestion, but it gave me an
extra flexible source of energythat I needed for my goals.
So part of the cue or thetrigger could be like not about
eating more carbs, but you knowI'm a person who values
evidence-based training andsources of energy.

(26:26):
I know that carbs give me theglycogen I need to train really
hard and rice is a great sourceof carbs.
I like rice, I like to preparerice in this way and that way
and therefore I'm going toinclude half a cup of rice with
my next meal.
And again, I'm just kind ofspitballing it here with you
about how to approach this foryou.
Like when I work with clients,alex, everybody's a little bit

(26:47):
different and I know you and Italked about having
accountability meal planning,meal prepping, pre-logging.
For some people it's just likedoing it, just saying, okay, I'm
going to plan these things intomy diet and I'm going to give
it a shot and see how I feel andthen, if I notice that I
actually feel better, that's agood reinforcement of that loop

(27:19):
guilt.
Right now, you may feel guiltywhen you grab something else
that's not on your list ofapproved things that you used to
think were bad with keto, andit might require just adding one
of those things in and seeingwhat happens and noticing that
the sky doesn't fall and, ifanything, you'll realize, ooh, I
really enjoyed my food a littlemore because I had this extra
ingredient.
Ooh, it gave me some moreenergy, you know, better sleep.
Some people report betterhormones or less stress, like

(27:41):
all of those things.
If you can lean into usuallythe non-scale victories they
call them and tie them to thesechoices, you can gradually break
the loops and build them inagain.
Working with a coach can behelpful because they can be
someone you fall back on and youcan transfer some of that
emotional stress over.
Um, and I love, I love to helppeople do that, because they
might just not do it on theirown and they need that push.

(28:02):
But I'm hopefully giving youthat little bit of a push here
and you could always jump intoour Facebook group and just post
your experience, say, look, Ibrought this up with Philip.
He had the podcast.
It wasn't a good enough answer,so I'm posting for you guys to
help me out and be specific andwe could do that.
So that's just kind of mythoughts on habits.
Right, like any habit, you'regoing to have to break it, but

(28:23):
you break it in a positive wayby adding in the thing you need
and then tie it into a loop of areward.
Which leads me to the nextquestion, which is from Christy
L, and she said what part ofyour identity or belief system
did you have to confront or letgo of when you shifted away from
keto, and how did that affectyour relationship with food and
your body?

(28:44):
So the thing I didn't realizefor years, christy, was that I
basically had disordered eating,without admitting it or knowing
it right.
It was disordered.
It wasn't to the point of like,like orthorexia is an obsession
with clean food.
Obviously there are.
There's eating disorders,nothing like that, but more of a
disordered eating of tying somuch of who I was with what I

(29:06):
ate.
And the irony, as you know, is Italk about this stuff all the
time.
Now I talk about food all thetime, I track my food and
everything, and yet I feel freefrom food, if that makes sense.
In other words, I know the factthat I have dietary and
psychological flexibility now isso empowering and it gives you
this sense of confidence knowingthat you can manipulate your

(29:28):
health, your physique, youractivity, your whatever, get a
result you want and do it eatinganything and I say anything
with quotes because, again, thisis not licensed to just
literally eat anything wheneverright.
It's in a controlled,structured way.
So again, your question whatpart of my identity or belief
system that's part of it is themoral judgment on food, the

(29:50):
disordered eating, the fact thatthere's a right, there are good
and bad foods, the fact thatscience somehow supports that
you can't eat a whole and badfoods, the fact that science
somehow supports that you can'teat a whole class of foods, like
to this day and you know thisfrom Dustin's work as well.
He talks about it all the time.
It's like seed oils andartificial sweeteners.
There are so many boogeymen outthere and the general default

(30:15):
response I have to any of those,until proven otherwise, is no,
the dosage makes it the poisonand almost anything can be
consumed in moderate amountswithout any.
You know negative effects andtherefore I don't worry about
those.
What I do think about is how doI feel myself as an athlete?
So I guess my identity and mybelief system was that I could

(30:37):
even be an athlete, that I canperform and lift weights and,
heck, look good.
I mean honestly, and I'm stillworking on it.
Like we all have insecurities,it's not really about that, so
much as I see the result from it.
And once the food freedom kickedin and I was doing the right
things, which is important,right, because some of us are
not training the right way, ortraining at all, or training

(30:59):
consistently, and that's a bigpiece of it.
Once I was doing that, it allstarted to click and then my
relationship with food becamevery objective, I'll say like
it's not emotional anymore,right, even hunger.
Now, when I experienced hungerand a fat loss phase, it's like
an objective feeling of, okay, Iunderstand what that is like
physiologically, physically,psychologically.
I understand what it is now andit takes work to get there.

(31:21):
Right, it takes a lot of workfor some of us, myself included,
and this is what I work withclients every day, and I'm sure
you've experienced that yourself.
And then it translates to yourrelationship with your body
Because, let's be honest, whenyou actually get a result, when
you start, when you're able tolose fat and build muscle and,
like, improve your physique,your hormones, your metabolism,
it gives you tons of confidenceand it makes you walk upright,
it makes you have less anxietyamong people, let's say, if

(31:43):
that's your thing, it makes youmore confident to take action
throughout other areas of yourlife, and all of that is tied up
to our identity.
So that's kind of what comes tomind for me.
Hope it answers that question.
So shout out to you, christy,for that.
I think I addressed what youwere asking.
And then, when we get to thepractical side of things, I love
these questions as becausethey're kind of easier for me to
answer.
But Jimmy Q asked how manycarbs did you go from and to?

(32:08):
So how many carbs did I go fromand to, and was there an
immediate weight gain, even ifsuperficial, like water weight
or glycogen?
Let's see.
He had other questions too howlong did it take to regulate and
get used to high carb?
How much more energy did youend up having at the gym,
assuming you were strengthtraining during both diets in
similar fashion?
Good question, so.
The first one once I learnedabout macros and energy balance,

(32:29):
it was actually pretty easy.
Number one anchor my protein.
Okay, 0.8 to one grams perpound.
Number two peg my fats ataround 30% of calories, give or
take 10%.
Number three the rest goes tocarbs.
So by definition, you are nowanchored by calories, protein
and a little bit by fat.
I mean, the fat is flexible,right.
So you're kind of anchored bycalories and protein, meaning

(32:50):
trying to gain weight versuslose weight, you're going to
have much different level ofcarbs or much different level of
calories, but because theprotein is anchored, the fats
and the carbs are going to swingaround a lot.
So, in actual numbers, if I'm atmaintenance, eating, say, 2,800
, or it depends on what mymaintenance is at the time, but
2,600 to 3,000 calories, I'mstill going to be eating 350

(33:11):
grams of carbs.
Maybe If I'm gaining, I'm goingto eat a lot more than that.
So, like crazy amount, maybe500.
And if I'm losing for me mostof my diets I'm eating around
2,000 calories, maybe 1,800.
Then I'm down to like a couplehundred grams, maybe less, which
, as you know, none of those arelow carb.
Now, having said that justcaveat I have plenty of clients

(33:31):
who have much lower metabolisms.
They're smaller, or you know apetite female or somebody who
just happens to burn fewercalories, and they might burn,
let's say, 2,000 calories astheir maintenance and when they
go to a diet they're at like1,400 calories.
Well, their carbs are nowprobably going to drop to 120
grams, 100 grams, maybe lessthan 100, maybe 80 grams, maybe

(33:56):
even 60.
And then we get into what wethink of as low carb or even VLC
, very low carb or keto, right.
So it's going to depend on thecalories and then the protein,
where trade-offs can always bemade, and that gets into the
nuances we're not going to getinto today.
Trade-offs can be made Now, theketo and carnivore worlds when
they think of carbs, they thinkof just making it as low as
possible because they care aboutbeing fat adapted and they care

(34:19):
about ketosis and all of that,none of which matters, because
the glycogen is the first sourceof energy your body's going to
seek.
If it doesn't, it's going to goto fat.
At the end of the day, caloriesare calories, like, based on
how much you consume and howmuch you burn.
You're going to store energy,whether it's consumed from
glycogen, glucose or fat, right,and I've talked about that many

(34:40):
times as well.
So the caveat is, if you've beenlow carb for a long time and I
did the math recently if you'vebeen like, say, 50 grams of
carbs for the last two years,you know keto and all of a
sudden you jump to 300 grams ofcarbs or 400 grams of carbs,
right, and I don't recommenddoing that overnight, you know.
Take take a week or two to doit regularly.
I mean incrementally.

(35:00):
When you make a jump like that,every gram of carbs results in
almost a gram of glycogen storedin your liver and your muscles,
which draws in about three tofour grams of water.
So if you did the math, youcould easily gain two to five
pounds with a big jump in carbsjust from water weight.

(35:22):
And that's like at almost likeany body weight.
So a lighter person will seethat as a massive weight change
and get freaked out.
Conversely, when someone goes onketo and they had been
consuming lots of carbs, whetherit was on purpose or not,
they'll say oh my God, I justlost five pounds in the first
week.
Water weight, it's all waterweight.
It's water weight Because theonly way you lose fat is to be

(35:43):
in an energy deficit, a trueenergy deficit.
Okay, a pound of fat, roughly3,500 calories of an energy
deficit.
Now, to be fair, if someonegoes on keto, they probably are
cutting out a whole bunch offoods and a whole bunch of
processed foods and thus a wholebunch of energy or calories,
and they might lose fat as wellas water weight.
And they're probably also goingto lose muscle, because most of

(36:05):
those people are not liftingweights.
Some are.
That's a whole separatediscussion.
Now, as far as how long it tookto regulate and get used to high
carbs, it took me like a day,you know.
And no, I say that in jest, butremember, when I talked about
how I started lifting, I startedfollowing starting strength and
I started just eating whatever.
I switched my mind at thatmoment to saying, look, I'm a

(36:25):
lifter right now and I need tofuel myself and I don't know, I
don't care what it takes.
And so I actually didn't putany governors or regulators on
how much of whatever I waseating and I tolerate foods.
Well, like I'm lucky Maybe isthat the word Like, no matter
how badly I've eaten in the past, my gut seems to be, seems to

(36:49):
handle things.
Well, I don't seem.
I don't have any allergies, Idon't have any intolerances.
Now a purist or a functionaldoctor or somebody might say
well, you don't know, until yougo on a elimination diet and
like, get all those toxins outof your system to see what you
really tolerate.
Well, guess what?
I've done that before and Ididn't notice much of a
difference.
So we're not all the same folksLike some of us can tolerate a
lot of these foods and, by theway, the science says most of
these foods are perfectly edible, perfectly healthy, in

(37:12):
moderation.
So going back to the dosage isthe poison.
So how long it takes toregulate and get used to high
carbs, I would say within a fewweeks for most people.
That's my short answer.
If I have a client who all of asudden needs more carbs, it
doesn't take long before they doit and they start to enjoy it
and they start to say, whoa,like you're right about this
stuff, like I have more energy,I can lift more, I got, I got.

(37:33):
I was stuck on my bench formonths or years and all of a
sudden I'm up.
You know, five pounds on mybench last week, or 10 pounds,
whatever.
Same thing happened to me.
I mean, I did them both at thesame time.
So it's kind of tough to teaseout the variables.
But because I was actuallyeating more on purpose and for
years and years and years I hadbeen like restricting,
restricting, restricting.
I did that combined withstrength training exactly what I

(37:53):
do with my clients now whenthey get started and it was just
like oh, everything started totake off like never before.
Right, all my lifts just wentup five, 10 pounds every time
for a few weeks and then it kindof leveled off a little and
then kept going for a whileafter that before I had to go to
more intermediate programming.
So, yes, you'll get an immediateweight gain.
It's all fluid because energybalance is the only thing that

(38:15):
should be taken account when itcomes to fat and you can do the
math and you can see that ifyou're eating your maintenance
calories, then anything you'regaining is probably not fat,
it's probably fluid period.
Same thing when you takecreatine.
So, jimmy, thanks for thequestion Shout out to you I'm
trying to see if I missedanything.
You get a better pump.
You get a much better pump inthe gym.
I mean you will lose thataltogether.

(38:35):
If that's important to you andfor a lot of us that's like a
great feeling.
What else you?
What else you get?
Better energy, sleep, mentalclarity.
In many cases I did a wholeepisode recently about cortisol,
the connection between carbsand cortisol.
Like so many things improvejust because of the increase in
carbs that you wouldn't realizeuntil you do it, let alone the

(38:56):
performance in the gym for sure.
I mean I know this because assoon as I go on a diet, even if
the calories aren't that low.
The carbs come way down.
You know I take a hit.
Or if I forget to not forget to, let's say, I don't have as
much or any pre-workout, forwhatever reason because of my
circumstances, I'll notice it.
Right, don't get enough sleep,you'll notice it.
I think I covered your question, so I'm going to move on to the

(39:18):
next one.
The next one is from Luke P.
He says what benefits do youget from low carb versus high
carb?
High carb is not always better,I'm assuming.
So I was thinking of how toanswer this question.
I already talked about how thecarbs are the main thing that
changes when you go from gainingto maintaining, to losing,
right.
So my approach, my philosophy,is as long as you've got your

(39:41):
protein, the fats and carbs arepretty flexible and there's no
reason to lower the carbs justto lower carbs.
Does that make sense?
In other words, even when youare in a fat loss phase, we
don't lower the carbs becauselow carbs better.
We lower them because we don'thave space for enough carbs,
right, we're having.
We need our protein and our fat.

(40:01):
In some cases I actually wantsomebody to slightly lower their
protein and increase theircarbs if it gives them just that
burst of energy they need.
I guess what I'm saying is thatall things equal.
I would generally never want tolower carbs for the sake of it
for any reason, but I would wantto increase carbs for many
reasons.
So when we say low carb and highcarb, it's kind of like protein
.
It's very misleading.

(40:22):
Like people talk about highprotein.
Well, most people are eatingextremely, extremely low protein
and I want people to eatmoderate protein, but it looks
high compared to the averagepopulation.
I mean, whoa 25% of yourcalories has protein.
That's huge.
Well, it's only 25%.
So is that really high proteinor is it just much higher than
the population?

(40:42):
Similarly, with carbs, like tome, if I'm getting a lot of
protein and plenty of fat andthen I'm eating 400 grams of
carbs, is that high carb or isit just what I need and like
filling in the rest of theenergy equation right?
So when you say high carb isnot always better, I would agree
with that statement when we aretalking about the context of

(41:03):
other macros.
So if the carbs are taking awayfrom your protein or fats in a
detrimental way, then it's notbetter, but there's no case
where I would say you need tolower your carbs, just to lower
your carbs?
Does that make sense?
So hopefully I answered thatthe research definitely supports
higher carbs for musclebuilding across the board.
Any study we see comparing lowcarb, comparing a low carb to a

(41:23):
moderate high carb the moderatehigh carb wins out for sure when
it comes to muscle building.
So like that to me is not aquestion anymore and I see it
anecdotally all the time.
Having said that, if you justdon't like to eat a lot of carbs
, and it doesn't hurt you tolower the carbs and it gives you
more protein because you're abig protein eater, that is a
scenario I can get behind, and Iknow plenty of lifters like
that who want to eat 250 gramsof protein or 300 grams of

(41:45):
protein and kind of moderatecarbs.
I like 200 something grams ofcarbs.
I'm like, yeah, you got a lotof flex there and that's okay,
that's okay.
So that's my thoughts on thatis, what are the trade-offs?
What are your goals?

Allan (41:58):
Hi, my name is Alan and I just want to give a shout out
to Philip, pape of Wits andWeights, for being a huge part
of the foundation for mycontinued health and well-being.
Philip exemplifies a nutritioncoach who demonstrates how much
he cares.
Philip works tirelessly andwith dedication to provide
coaching, support and majorcontent for us to use.

(42:21):
He creates a practical approachfrom research and Philip
empowers all of us to use foodas quality for our health.
He is skilled in how to assessand direct nutrition.
Philip creates a community fullof wisdom, support and
camaraderie.
In summary, philip Papers thereal deal.
He knows how to assess anddirect nutrition and he

(42:44):
continues to steer me in theright direction.
Thank you, philip.

Philip Pape (42:50):
Emily asked a question about timing and travel
.
She said timing overall.
What is your timing of carbs?
Do you eat more in the am or pm?
So I'm going to answer herquestions one at a time.
So, timing of carbs carbs, Idistribute them evenly when I'm
not Dieting.
When I'm in fat loss, however,I shift them to the morning

(43:11):
because that's around my workout.
If it's a Non-training day, Itend to eat them spread out
evenly as well.
Simple, right, it's as simpleas that.
Now, if you are the type ofperson who trains first thing in
the morning and doesn't want toeat which there's a small
percentage of people that dothat you want a lot of carbs
with your dinner.
If you're the type of personthat sleeps better with carbs at
your meal, you want them atdinner.
If you're the type of personthat needs the carbs after your

(43:33):
workout to recover from beingdrained of your glycogen, you
might want more carbs after yourworkout.
Get what I'm saying Depends.

(43:59):
So me personally, distribute itevenly, except on training days
, then, or except during fatloss, in which case more
percentage of it like up to 50%of my carbs are going to be
around training, and that's whatI recommend.
When your carbs are tight.
Put more of them are your go-topre or post-workout snacks and
or meals.
I am super boring and simple.
I eat a banana and a proteinshake beforehand, and then I
have some oatmeal with peanutbutter afterward, and then lunch
is not far behind to get moreof my protein.

(44:21):
I like to have a lot of proteinwith my lunch and dinner and
because I'm having a nice bigprotein shake before my workout,
I don't need a lot of proteinright after it.
Right, there's no such thing asthe anabolic window anymore.
You could distribute yourprotein however you want.
The carbs are a little bit moreimportant.
So when we're talking carbsspecifically, I love fruit
before the workout because I canhave it as close as like half
an hour before my workout, veryfast digesting, and then after

(44:43):
my workout I like something alittle more fiber, a little more
tasty and comfort food stylewhich is where the oatmeal comes
in and plus a little bit of fatand taste from the peanut
butter.
I will say if I am gaining, Ineed even more calories.
I will also add in HBCD, highlybranched cyclic dextrin.
It is a extremely digestible,very easy on the stomach form of
carbs powder form that prettymuch anyone can tolerate and it

(45:07):
is a great intro workout as well.
You can sip it or have itbefore your.
I actually put it before,during and after when I'm
gaining and trying to eat like4,000 calories Carbs on travel,
you asked.
This is still, emily.
It's so easy to lose track whenworking and not controlling
meals.
Also, buffets at meetings tendto be carb heavy.
What are your strategies?

(45:28):
And, socially, how do you trackwithout a scale next to your
boss?
Okay, there's a lot ofquestions here.
I guess it could be a wholetopic on its own, and it's funny
because I think, emily, you andI just talked about this on a
group call in PhysiqueUniversity and I think that was
about going to track meets orsomething right, where you
didn't have enough time betweentraveling and everything to to

(45:49):
have the food you wanted, um,and it was like four hours and
they had hot dogs and otherstuff staring you in the face,
right.
So it really does come down tomeal planning, meal prepping and
the logistics of it all.
So you've got to just thinkahead, use if-then strategies.
If you know this is going tohappen twice a week, then what
is your strategy?
Is it to have a cooler, readyto go, and then you pop it in

(46:11):
your car.
Is it to have snack-type foodsin your purse?
That is it For me.
I know what you're talkingabout.
Buffets and meetings tend to becarb-heavy and they're not
always the carbs that we want.
They're often like muffins andstuff, maybe they're bagels or
something.
So if you know you're going toeat the meaty food, just again
you got to plan for it and saymaybe I'm going to bring my you

(46:35):
know first four meat sticks orsomething for my protein or
protein bar or something to goalong with it.
If they don't have meat options, you know sometimes there'll be
sandwiches and you can likegrab a bunch of the cold cuts
and maybe eat half the bread.
If you don't, if you're nottrying to get that much, that
many carbs, but it's it'splanning.
It's planning and like havingif, then strategies.
That's really all it is.
Your last question abouttracking without a scale and

(46:55):
next year boss.
So two options.
One is just take a picture oreyeball it and estimate.
I mean, I do that all the timenow.
It's a skill that you buildover time.
You're like okay, this is aturkey sandwich and this is
pasta salad, right, or whateverthe buffet food is, or if it's
just a lunch you packed and youdidn't pre-measure it, which you
could pre-measure it if it's athome, but if somebody cooked

(47:16):
for you.
Again, just estimate each ofthe main ingredients that have
calories and put them in asgrams.
Macrofactor has a new AIfeature where you can take a
picture and it'll do it for you.
It's like 90% accurate, whichis plenty good enough for most
people and you could.
There's a text box so you cantell it generally what's in
there, like no-transcript, allright.

(47:40):
Next question this is from AlanF.
All right, mr Alan, everybodyknows him from the Facebook
group, for sure, and alsoPhysique University.
He says did you give thought tothe glycemic index of the carbs
you were utilizing?
And then another question didyou have a priority list of
carbohydrate foods you wereincorporating?
I'm going to answer that onebecause it's easier.

(48:01):
My priority list is just thesimple list of foods that I like
.
That's it.
So like if I were to providesome nuance on that, because
this could be why you're askingsomewhat is different foods have
different levels of macros,right?
So rice is pure carbs, just likeshrimp is pure protein,
essentially.
Beans, however, are carbs andprotein.
So if I were to prioritize, ifI'm absolutely trying to have

(48:24):
pure carbs, I'm going to havethings like fruit and oats.
Well, oats have protein too,but never hurts that protein.
You know, rice, simple starchesthey could be refined, whole
grains, but I mean simple, youknow, like breads and pastas and
whatnot.
And I'll just, basically, it'sjust like I would do if I was
trying to have dairy that wasmore protein than not.
I would look at the proteindensity.

(48:45):
Same thing with carbs what'sthe carb density?
And then I don't stray fromthat.
I'm fairly boring.
I like to explore occasionallyin the grocery store, but
usually I just stick to okay,here are my five favorite fruits
, here are my five or sixfavorite vegetables.
I like oats, I like rice.
Keep it simple.
And I know you are.
You are very, um, I'll say youlove to explore the variety of

(49:06):
foods out there and do lots offancy recipes, um, just like
Carol does in the group, andthat's awesome too.
Right, that's what you love todo.
But going back to your firstquestion, did you give thought
to the glycemic index of thecarbs?
Uh, the answer is no, but Iused to.
So I'm glad you brought that up, because I fell prey to a lot
of these silly little things.
Like I say silly, like I wasgoing to say blood sugar and

(49:28):
that's going to offend a lot ofpeople.
I think blood sugar isimportant but I don't think I
don't think it takes a lot to doit right and then not have to
think about it.
In other words, like if you eatbalanced meals and you have a
lot of fiber, you're going totake care of your blood sugar as
long as you're training right,as long as you're lifting
weights and walking, so I don'twant to give too much thought to
it.
I know some coaches and somefolks even I've had on my show

(49:48):
like they focus on that and andit can be a valuable tool for
people who aren't aware of it,because then it says, okay, how
do I, how do I improve that?
But glycemic index has to dowith you know as well.
That's why I bring this upInsulin sensitivity, all of that
it doesn't matter.
Once I discovered throughlearning the science that if

(50:09):
you're lifting weights andyou're walking inactive, that
you're going to be highlyinsulin sensitive, it didn't
matter.
I could even eat a carb meal.
My blood sugar will spike andit's fine when I'm low on
calories.
I don't do that, though,because what will happen is I'll
get like an energy crash, andmany of you listening if you

(50:30):
feel that like 3 pm energy crash.
Sometimes you go for a highenergy food, like a candy bar,
right, or chips or whatever forthat reason, because your body's
craving the energy.
But if you have balanced mealsthat are always protein and
fiber first, you don't have toworry about glycemic index at
all, and for anybody who knowsGI, you know that it's like
averaged out for the meal.
So if you're having protein andfiber in there and some fats or
whatever, it's going to bringthe whole GI down for the meal.
If you're diabetic, it's adifferent situation.

(50:50):
You may have to be moreconscious of it.
So the answer is I didn'treally.
I went down those rabbit holessometimes, but I was just trying
to avoid carbs in general.
I wasn't like oh, give me thelow GI carbs, not the high.
Now, I didn't do that.
If that's a concern for you,I'm not the guy necessarily to
talk to, because I don't thinkit's necessary for most people.
Or if you're training, walking,eating, balanced meals, yeah,

(51:12):
and then nutrient density, yeah.
So I think that's it.
I think glycemic load is whatwe call it, right, the context
of the whole food matrix.
That's more important.
Okay, next question is fromAlex B.
So this is going back to theoriginal listener who wrote in
and this is another part of herquestion.
She said I think it's a comboof habit and learn, fear or
anxiety response from years ofindoctrination.

(51:33):
I know better, but knowledgeonly gets you so far.
I've done the prepping, but notlogging ahead.
There are basically alwayspotatoes, beans and bread ready
to go.
In any case, I think you'reright.
I don't have a knowledge gap,but an accountability one, and I
and many others default tomaladaptive habits and systems
even when we know better.
So I wanted to throw this inand kind of close the loop on
all of this, because for many ofus, myself included, no matter

(51:56):
how much we know, the rightthing is to do.
We need that accountability,and accountability comes in so
many ways, right, you can evenbuild self accountability by
using an app, like I use macrofactor initially for my first
year and a half of nutrition.
I just use that.
Then my accountability came inthe form of getting a coaching
certification, having clientsand I have worked with coaches,

(52:18):
like informally, for mynutrition as well.
I haven't actually workedone-on-one with a nutrition
coach for a period of time.
I've been thinking about it forsome of the advanced things,
but, at the same time, I'mconfident in my nutrition and
this is the thing you got toassess.
Like, if you really enjoysomething and you love learning
about it and you're able to beconsistent with it, then you're

(52:38):
good.
You're good.
If, however, something likestrength training, you're
constantly missing your trainingsessions, constantly moving
things around, never sure whatto follow, like you just have
all this uncertainty and lack ofconfidence around it, or you
feel frustrated and inconsistent, that's where you need
something, whether that is afree Facebook group, a friend or
accountability partner, a coach, a community, paid free, it

(53:00):
doesn't like they're alldifferent forms.
Obviously, I provide variousforms of this because everyone
has different budgets and needsand whatnot, and some people can
shift between them, right?
I've had folks that came intothe Facebook group link in the
show notes totally free.
They saw what things were about, they started to learn, they
started to listen to podcastsand they're like okay,
interesting.
Well, I had this really big goaland I'm kind of struggling to

(53:23):
get there, even though I knowwhat to do.
Let me join Physique Universityand get motivated by people,
but also be able to reach out toPhilip and get some more
personalized guidance.
You know, have a plan, have away to diagnose issues along the
way, and they'll do that andthey'll get a great result.
Or they'll do that and they'llsay, all right, I'm getting a
result, but I had these veryspecific issues for me related
to my hormones, my thyroidmedications, my age, my

(53:47):
equipment access.
Maybe I'm kind of shy and Idon't want to be sharing
everything with a group, right,like there's different reasons
and they'll say, okay, I want towork with you one-on-one.
Or, again, there are things inyour life where you may be able
to hold yourself accountable.
It's all different, it's aspectrum.
So why I brought this up Alex isbecause she acknowledged that

(54:08):
she has the knowledge but has alot of habits and they're hard
to break sometimes without thataccountability.
So I just signed up a couple ofclients, this week in fact, who
are very much like that.
They are advanced clients.
They have been training andlearning and applying nutrition
and tracking macros andeverything for years and have
gotten great results.
Some of them have competed.
You know bodybuilding and stufflike that, but they know that

(54:28):
they can learn more.
There's always subtle thingsthat they need to to reach out
to someone else for.
Okay.
Anyway, behavior changes is isis so important in this space.
The role of like cognitivedissonance where what we believe
doesn't match what we'reexperiencing and we're trying to
resolve that when it comes toshifting our diets is really,

(54:49):
really important, along with therole of community and
accountability.
All right, I think this episodeis way past the time I wanted it
to be.
Hopefully, I'm able to edit itto be shorter, but I think the
big thought from all of this andI don't even know if I covered
half my story, to be honest isthat what I finally learned

(55:10):
around 2021, when I launched thepodcast, was that the
sustainability and theflexibility are the main driver
of all of this, like yourability to adapt and go with the
flow and go with life, and ifwhat you're doing does not have
that flexibility, it's going tobe a problem at some point.
It's going to be a problem Iguarantee it If you're following

(55:31):
strict keto or any other highlyrestrictive approach.
And don't tell me carnivore islike just wonderful and it works
for you and it solved all yourproblems and I could do this the
rest of my life.
Maybe, 0.1% of people maybe.
But in reality you come to me ayear later and tell me that
you're still eating only thesethree foods and I'm using a
little exaggeration, I realize,but it's kind of what it is.

(55:52):
You know, it's kind of like akid who only eats like six
things, right, doesn't eat theirfruits and vegetables.
That's carnivore.
But any of these approaches arehighly restrictive and when
you're living that way, you knowwhat it's stressing you out.
You are in this state of like,constant vigilance, like what
can I eat?
What's the next poison or toxinlurking around the corner that

(56:12):
I have to avoid?
Man, isn't that stressful?
Doesn't that sound awful, likean awful way to live?
And if you're living right thatway right now, why do it to
yourself, right, every singletime you eat?
You're like it's thisMachiavellian calculation
combined with extreme disciplineand willpower.
You know, social events arethese minefields where it's all
temptation.
Like every social event, all itfeels like is constant

(56:35):
temptation and saying no, andthe mental bandwidth that you
have to have to maintain that isjust enormous.
It's enormous.
So I'm getting my soapbox here,because it's a call to action to
anyone listening that you canhave it all.
You can balance your approachto all of this.
You can include carbs, you canget nutritional freedom.
You just have to have theflexibility and you can still

(56:58):
track macros, prioritize protein, make whole food choices, but
without rigid rules that governevery bite.
It's guardrails, it's structure, it's targets, it's ranges,
it's not eat this, not that itis very different.
If you want to argue with methat it's the same, I'd like you
to try them both out and tellme that they are the same, and
if they are to you, then that'syour experience.

(57:19):
And even with that, I would saythat there are other ways to
have those guardrails andflexibility, just with a
slightly different approach ormethod that doesn't require
cutting foods out.
And so, instead of thinking,okay, I need to follow this diet
, think how do I build asustainable lifestyle that
supports my goals, that enhanceswhat I'm doing?

(57:40):
Doing?
Quality of life is so important, it's so important, and you got
to live with what you're doingand be happy with it.
You don't want to just toleratewith misery what you're doing.
Think about it.
Are you just tolerating yourdiet right now?
Are you miserable or are youliving with it happily?
You know, I don't mean theroses and sunshine and it's
perfect every day, of course.
I don't mean that.
I mean you're satisfied, you'relike, yeah, I can do this the

(58:02):
rest of my life.
There's always a little effortinvolved with everything, of
course, but this is way morefreeing and flexible than the
other approaches.
So I guess, as we wrap up thisself-interview but I guess it
ended up being a Q&A what I wantto emphasize is that I was
looking for a diet like the onetrue diet for years Keto, atkins

(58:24):
I didn't even mention SlimFast,but I did that Paleo and at the
end of the day, it wasn't aboutthe right diet, it was about
the right approach for me, whichmeans your diet itself evolves.
So it's principle-based ratherthan method-based, and that
means you can have multiplenutritional approaches, not only
for different people but foryou, at different stages, for

(58:47):
different times of the year, fordifferent contexts and
objectives and goals.
That's the power of all this,because now you're not fixed
into one approach.
So let's say you're currentlythriving on a low-carb approach
and it aligns with your goalsFantastic, like.
I'm not going to judge you forthat, but if you're staying low
carb because of fear rather thanlike preferences or results,
even, I hope this gives you thepermission you want to

(59:10):
experiment, to evolve yourapproach.
That's what we are all about,because the social media world,
the nutrition world, is justfull of zealots who promote
their preferred diet as the onlyway to eat.
They do it for views, forclicks, for engagement and for
money and I'm not against money.
I'm a capitalist through andthrough.
I love money, just like you butI wouldn't do this shameful

(59:33):
self-promotion and somethingthat actually harms people for
that.
Now, I've been the person whotalks people's ear off about how
great low-carb is.
This was before it ever becamea business for me and in
hindsight it was exhausting andisolating.
And I think there's tremendousfreedom in letting go of dogma

(59:54):
of any kind dietary dogma,training dogma and embrace the
idea of flexibility.
Not that we're all specialsnowflakes or anything like that
.
We're all like super, super,super unique that what works for
you doesn't work for me.
The principles are there.
Principles are universal.
It's the dogma of fixed methodsand approaches.
I think that your relationshipwith food should be a great part

(01:00:16):
of your life, like it shouldjust be a good, fun part of your
life and something you enjoy,not constraining.
Your diet serves you.
It's not the other way around.
Your knowledge is going tocontinue to grow as your
experience grows, as you listento podcasts, get involved in
communities, learn, learn, learn.
The evidence is going to keepchanging as well.

(01:00:37):
You know what we know about theevidence, I should say, and
that's to me very exciting.
So if you found value today, ifyou stuck through this long, if
you want to continue theconversation, just join our
Facebook group.
That's all I'm going to asktoday.
Just search for it in Facebookor click the link in the show
notes, and that is wherequestions like the ones we
covered today get discussed.
All the time you can share yourjourney with carbs or any other

(01:00:59):
diet you want.
You know some people are therewho are doing carnivore and
they're like yeah, I love it,that's great.
Come in there.
We're not going to judge you.
We're going to present all theevidence and let you decide for
yourself.
As long as you experiment,promise me that you will try,
that you will make an attemptand not just assume something
will or won't work until you'vetried it.

(01:01:19):
And if you haven't tried it you.
You're going to find supportthere, you're not going to find
judgment.
That's my point.
So Wits and Weights Facebookgroup link in the show notes and
I look forward to seeing youthere.
Until next time, keep usingyour wits lifting those weights
and remember the best diet isn'tthe one with the most zealous
following.
It's the one that works foryour body and your goals and

(01:01:41):
your life.
I'll talk to you next time hereon the Wits and Weights podcast
.

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My Escape from Low-Carb Diets to More Energy, Muscle, and Fat Loss | Ep 322

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}My Escape from Low-Carb Diets to More Energy, Muscle, and Fat Loss | Ep 322