May 12, 2025 • 25 mins
Submit a question for the podcast (and get a personal reply plus a shoutout) at witsandweights.com/question
--
If you have back issues, you might think heavy lifting isn't for you.
Millions of people struggling with back pain believe they should avoid challenging exercises - especially heavy lifting.
But what if avoiding heavier weights is actually keeping you from building the strong, resilient body and back that you need?
Today we're answering a listener question from Kristen (a 51-year old woman with chronic back problems) about strength training with back issues and challenging conventional wisdom about what's actually good for your back.
Main Takeaways:
- Understanding the counterintuitive relationship between strength training and back health
- Why most people's approach to back problems may be making things worse
- The critical mental shift needed for successful strength development
- How to build confidence through proper technique and progression
- The surprising connection between rehabilitation and strength training
Timestamps:
0:01 - Strength training with back problems
3:22 - Common back issues with age
4:47 - 3 key principles for training for a stronger back
12:30 - How to start training effectively
16:09 - Fears of re-injury
22:18 - The surprising overlap between rehab and training
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Philip Pape (00:01):
If you are experiencing back issues of any
kind a little bit of back painand fatigue all the way up to
more significant back problemsor a quote-unquote bad back that
leaves you either sitting oreven in your bed or on the couch
for stretches at a time, andthen you hear phrases like heavy
lifting.
You might think that that isnot for me.
I'll stick to my walking, mylighter weights, my machine work
(00:24):
, but what if avoiding theheavier weights is what's
keeping you from building thestrong, resilient body and back
that you need?
Today we are talking about thecounterintuitive thinking behind
building strength with backissues.
That will change the way youapproach strength training when
it comes to your back.
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a
(00:56):
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, philip Pape, andtoday we're answering a
fantastic question from alistener named Kristen that I
think perfectly captures theconcern shared by millions of
people women, men of many ages,especially over 40, over 50, and
(01:19):
beyond.
And Kristen wrote, quote I'm a51-year-old woman who is
overweight and I need a greatprogram and tips for strength
training for a strong, healthyfuture in my body.
I have a back problem, so whenI hear heavy lifting, I'm not
sure this is a great fit for mepersonally.
What are your thoughts Now?
I did get back to Kristen witha lot of details specific to her
(01:42):
, but today I want to answer thecrucial thing that I think this
question hits on that there's amassive disconnect between what
many people believe they shoulddo for their bodies, especially
as they get older, and what theevidence actually supports.
The truth is that not only canmost people with back issues
safely perform strength trainingwith barbells and heavier loads
(02:04):
, but it might be exactly whatthey need for long-term back
health.
The one caveat is I am not amedical expert.
I'm not a doctor.
I'm not dispensing medicaladvice, so, when in doubt,
always seek the help of aprofessional or a physical
therapist.
I know some great ones in theindustry, in fact, and I've
worked with them myself, buttoday we're going to break down
(02:25):
the principles and specificapproaches in general that can
help Kristen and everyone in asimilar situation build the
strength that they need for thisvibrant, active future for
decades to come, no matter whatage you are.
Now, before we get intospecifics, if you have a
question that you'd like me toaddress on a future episode,
(02:47):
just like I'm doing today,featuring Kristen's question.
And you want a personal replyfrom me?
Just go to witsandweightscomslash question or click the link
in the show notes.
And I love these questionsbecause they allow me to address
the real concerns that areholding you back, that
preventing you from reachingyour potential, that you're
curious about, that are holdingyou back, that preventing you
from reaching your potential,that you're curious about, that
(03:07):
are very specific and contextualto you and I'd be happy to
tackle your question orsituation in an episode.
Usually it's going to befeatured all on its own and I'm
going to give you a shout out,just like I did today for
Kristen.
So go to witsandweightscomslash question to do that.
All right, let us start byunderstanding what the problem
is.
After I got Kristen's question,I followed up.
(03:29):
I asked her some more detailsbecause it always depends right
and she shared with me that shehad injured her back in her 20s.
She has very weak core muscles,she occasionally has flare-ups
where she could be bedridden forup to a week, and she mentioned
specifically that poor form hadcaused a severe episode where
she couldn't even get out of bedfor five days.
(03:49):
Now I can definitely relate tothis.
I've had back surgery and it wasexacerbated when I had a
herniated disc while I waslifting with poor form.
I remember specifically Iforgot to put on my belt not
that you need to have a belt,but I forgot to put on my
lifting belt for the final set.
Not that you need to have abelt, but I forgot to put on my
lifting belt for the final setof really heavy deadlifts.
I was in a gym talking withpeople getting totally
(04:10):
distracted and I just went afterit just in a very sloppy way.
This is, this is before.
I knew better and I could justfeel that I pulled something,
but it was just an exacerbated,um uh injury from years and
years.
That probably happened when Iwas in CrossFit and or
snowboarding, you'll never know,but in this case it sounds like
she, you know, liftedimproperly and she said she
(04:33):
walks one to two times a week,uses machines at the gym one to
three times a week doing chestpress rows, pec, fly seated leg
presses, and she gave me somespecific numbers and reps and
you know I again I gave herspecific advice.
But what I want to talk abouttoday are are three key
principles that will change howyou think about strength
(04:54):
training with back issues, andthis is especially true for men
and women in midlife, over 40,over 50, when these things
really start to catch up withyou.
So principle number one is thestronger back paradox.
All right, this is where mostpeople believe that having back
issues means you should avoidchallenging your back through
(05:17):
heavy lifting.
But the evidence points in theopposite direction, because a
weak back is more vulnerable toinjury than a strong back.
When I say it that way, you'relike yeah, okay, that makes
intuitive sense.
But when you avoid trainingyour back due to fear of injury,
then you're creating aself-fulfilling prophecy, aren't
you?
(05:37):
Your back, then, remains weak.
It's unstable.
It is prone to exactly theinjuries you're trying to avoid.
Most people are going to gettheir back injured doing
something stupid, like trying tolift something up into the back
of a truck and twisting theirbody, and they lift it up with a
massive amount of back curving.
You know those kinds of thingsVery rarely, but occasionally
(06:01):
somebody might injure themselvesin the gym, but again, it's
usually because of very poorform or trying to do too much
too quickly.
The research shows us thatprogressive overload,
progressive resistance, trainingright.
This is where you continue toget stronger over time actually
reduces back pain and improvesfunction in most individuals who
have chronic back issues.
(06:21):
A 2016 systematic review in theJournal of Rehabilitation
Medicine found that strengthtraining led to significant
reductions in pain andimprovements in physical
function for individuals withchronic low back pain, and I've
seen it directly with so manyclients clients who were
hesitant to lift weights.
We got them doing deadlifts and, all of a sudden, the pain
(06:42):
starts to go away and they'reshocked, they're surprised, but
they're super happy and pleased.
Um and I've seen this time andtime again start deadlifting.
Now, this paradox applies toKristen situation perfectly,
because, by limiting yourself tolight machine work, I think
she's missing out on thetraining stimulus that can make
her back more resilient, and Itold her this.
You know she I'm not callingher out here, she knows.
(07:03):
You know I said the thing thatI first learned through starting
strength right it's better tohave a strong, bad back than a
weak bad back, and, of course,bad back is a subjective thing
that we like to label, but thestrong back is going to serve
you far better in daily life.
The key, though, is leading meto principle number two that
progressive overload isnon-negotiable.
(07:25):
So when you think, okay, whatdoes it mean to have a strong
back?
Well, you actually have tochallenge it.
You have to adapt your body toincreasing demands over time.
If you keep lifting the sameweights, the same you know loads
, the same exercises forever,your body has no reason to build
more strength or muscle andit's going to stay at its
current level.
(07:45):
And I would say that this iseven more critical for older
folks, people over 40, 50, 60.
I did an episode specificallygeared toward the over 50 crowd
where I talked about theimportance of the big compound
lifts specifically for the backand for bone density and for
like those functional thingsthat we really care about.
(08:06):
Take women, for example.
After menopause, women can lose3% to 8% of their muscle mass
per decade.
Of course, men lose muscle massas well, but for women it
increases at an acceleratingrate because of the hormones.
So in your 20s and 30s you hada let's call it good enough,
quote unquote strong back andyou had some muscle.
(08:39):
Just that came along for theride.
Well, now you're losing thatmuscle.
So unless you do somethingabout it, it's just going to get
worse.
So when Kristen mentioned thatshe increases weight when it
feels too easy, which was one ofthe replies when we were
discussing this.
We talked about how ourperception of difficulty some
people call it RPE, or just youknow how it feels is pretty
(09:01):
subjective.
It's influenced by a lot ofthings on that day that you go
into the gym, your sleep quality, your stress, your nutrition,
you know whether you're gainingor losing weight at the time, or
in a calorie deficit or not.
And this is why I like astructured plan that takes the
guesswork out and does notdepend on how you feel for the
day until you get much moreadvanced and and can really rely
(09:24):
on that.
And so for all of us whosebodies are going to be forever
aging and you're worried aboutthat muscle loss, the principle
of progressive overload has tobe applied, and applied
intelligently.
You know, small, consistentincreases over time, not
dramatic jumps, not taking lotsof time off from the gym and
also not just staying at thesame weight.
Right, it's okay, if you'redoing 30 pounds now, go in the
(09:48):
next session or the next weekand try 35.
And your body will continue toadapt and stay strong when you
do that.
And then, principle number threeI just slightly alluded to this
already, but I'm a big fan offocusing on movement patterns
over isolated muscle groups whenthe concern is a strong back.
Kristen said she was usingmachines.
(10:11):
I think that's great.
It's definitely better thannothing, and certain machines
can definitely give you similarresults for hypertrophy, for
building muscle, but it's notgoing to develop the coordinated
function of multiple musclegroups working together for that
overall stability and posteriorchain, which is what your back
(10:31):
needs.
It needs those very strongrope-like attachments that go up
your spine to becomestrengthened, and that is best
accomplished through, you know,a systematic multi-joint,
multi-muscle compound lifts.
Because back pain here's thething it usually stems not from
a single weak muscle but fromnot moving the right way.
(10:54):
Right, doing again, I said doingsomething stupid right and the
fact that you don't have verygood coordination between your
muscle groups.
You are just notneuromuscularly adapted to it
and training on machines mightfeel safer, but it bypasses the
development of theseneuromuscular connections.
Think about it Functionalmovements like squats, deadlifts
(11:14):
.
They train the body as anintegrated system.
They teach your bodies or yourmuscles to work together and
they develop what we're going tocall useful strength.
Right, useful strength, notjust big muscles, not just size,
not just higher load for thesake of it, but the actual
strength that translates todaily activities lifting and
(11:36):
carrying your groceries, movingfurniture, playing with your
grandchildren all the thingsthat actually end up pulling
people's backs right.
Even just the fact that youhave to sit in front of a
computer for your jobpotentially could cause back
issues.
But having a stronger backthrough coordinated, functional
I hate the word functional, butthe compound movements is going
to mitigate that significantly.
(11:56):
And again, this doesn't meanmachines have no place.
So, kristen, I'm talking to youas well.
I don't want you to feel badwith some of the stuff I'm
saying in this episode.
They can be extremely valuablefor building specific muscles,
for working around limitations.
In fact I'm going to do anepisode soon about building
muscle despite injuries andlimitations, so you might
actually like that one as well.
(12:17):
But the machine shouldcomplement right.
They should complement and notreplace the compound movements.
I think those should be thefoundation right, especially
deadlifts when it comes to backhealth.
And if you're not doing them yet, kristen, you can start with a
light, empty bar and work yourway up from that.
(12:37):
If you can pick something offthe ground for a set of five
with very little effort, thenyou could, of course, pick
something slightly heavier for aset of five and heavier for a
set of, and eventually you'regonna hit a point where it
starts to feel heavy and yourbody will then adapt by building
more connections, neuromuscularconnections, as well as
building muscle over time, andthat's what's going to make your
(12:57):
back really, really strong.
Now let's talk about puttingthis all together for a, you
know, application of theprinciples.
I don't want to get too deep inthe weeds about, like specific
programming, um programming,prescriptions, I should say, and
it also doesn't mean you haveto jump straight into, like
super, what you would considerheavy barbell deadlifts If you
(13:21):
have back issues.
Of course, again, as I saidbefore, caveat, this is not
medical advice.
If it's something that issurgically indicated or requires
physical therapy, that's reallyup between you and your doctor.
What I would suggest, however,from a training perspective, is
starting with the movementpatterns using body weight or
very light resistance.
(13:42):
Yeah, that could be bands, thatcould be an empty bar, an empty
light bar.
Right, there are light barbells, there are women's barbells
that are 35 pounds, and thenthere's even 15 pound bars or
even just like a broom handle.
So if you can learn how tobrace, how to breathe right,
stabilize your spine and have aneutral spine during the
movement, learning the squat andthe deadlift pattern properly.
(14:05):
I can't tell you pretty muchevery client that I start
working with when they send metheir first video of them doing
a deadlift, it's always got somemajor issues the bar's way too
far from the legs, they'rerounding their back.
There's something that's offthat I know you're going to get
injured by, and this is also whyworking with a trainer or coach
can be really helpful.
I know I mentioned, you know,physique University.
(14:26):
In there you could post a videoand get a form check from me.
I will break it down either intext or on a screen share video
and I'll say look, here are the,here are your, here's your low
hanging fruit and here are thecues that you can use to improve
your movement pattern.
Um, so it's.
It's.
It's the hip hinge right, thefoundation of the deadlifts.
It's the uh core stability thatyou get through doing squats
(14:50):
and deadlifts and progressingthem over time.
It's modified versions of thosemovements.
If you need them.
Like, let's say, you carry alot of excess weight and you
can't get into a squat, maybeyou could do a leg press, all
right.
But let me tell you, I workwith clients who are in excess
of 300 pounds on the scale andthey can generally do all of
these movement patterns.
They just have to be taught theright way to do it and start
light and work your way up rightthe.
(15:13):
The key here is we're notavoiding the movements that
challenge the back.
We are introducing them in acontrolled way that builds
strength and confidence.
And if you could do it lightwith good form, then eventually
you could do it heavy with goodform and your body will adapt to
it.
So again, if you needmodifications, like if you have
to do goblet squats, initiallyreally light, with a kettlebell
(15:35):
or dumbbell, then that's fine.
Start with goblet squats.
If you had to do kettlebelldeadlifts instead of just full
up deadlifts, or if you have touse a trap bar I'm not going to,
you know, get dogmatic here,criticize you for that I think
it's great If you have to doseated overhead presses instead
of standing overhead presses,right, like.
As long as you're doing themovement patterns and then you
(15:56):
have the appropriate load onyour spine, establish you know
proper technique and then startto progress.
You're going to be able toadapt to it as you go, and that
is the best way not to getinjured.
So I think perhaps the mostimportant thing when it comes to
the back is actually not thephysical, it's the psychological
(16:17):
, it's the fear of the re-injury, and I get this.
At the same time, I was soexcited to want to get back to
lifting, because I had done itfor several years before my back
surgery that that building ofthe habit and the strength
actually got me through withoutnearly the amount of fear I
(16:37):
suspect I would have had if Iwasn't a lifter and I wasn't
already in shape.
And so I've talked here andthere before about the
importance of being strongleading into a surgery.
And again we're talking aboutinjury.
But, like, a lot of people getinjured and then they have to do
something about it, they haveto recover, and then they're
afraid that they're going to getinjured again.
And then what pain specialistscall this is fear avoidance
(17:00):
behavior, right, and that'swhere you limit your movement to
avoid the pain.
So, kristen, if you'relistening to this, and that's
the thing that is going on um,you know, recognizing that is a
good step one, for.
And then we're going to talkquickly about breaking the cycle
.
But what does the cycle looklike?
Well, you have fear, then youavoid the movement, then, when
you avoid the movement, you getdeconditioned, you get weak,
(17:23):
weakness increases vulnerabilityto injury and then the injury
reinforces the fear.
Right, so that's the viciouscycle.
Fear, right, so that's thevicious cycle.
And so it requires this mentalshift in your psychology from
seeing your back as fragile andso so fragile right, you think
it's fragile, it's breakableinstead to thinking of it as
(17:44):
adaptable, flexible andadaptable, but in a in a
positive way.
So this is a reframe that I'masking you to consider right now
instead of thinking your backas this fragile thing, think of
as an adaptable thing, right,and that doesn't mean you ignore
pain or you push throughinjuries.
It means that you work withyour body, doing the things we
talked about putting it incontrolled movement patterns and
(18:07):
expanding the capability andthe competence over time, by
getting stronger as your bodygets stronger mentally and
physically.
Right, instead of accepting thatthis is some sort of limitation
, because, let me tell you,every single person over 30 has
a back quote, unquote issue, andif they got an MRI, it would
show something in their spinethat an orthopedic surgeon would
say, yeah, we need to go inthere and cut you open, okay, um
(18:30):
, and I had back surgery and ittook me a while before I got to
the point of saying, no, Iactually need the surgery
because I had an impinged, uhdisc impinging on my nerve, so
it was literally sending ashooting pain down into my nerve
continuously.
Um, and as soon as the doctorjust removed the material, I was
fine and I was able to walk.
And I've been great ever sincelifting PRs for my deadlift.
(18:51):
I mean, I just did a new PRrecently.
Um, and I know for a fact I'veseen people who are engineers
cause I know a lot of engineerswho are like, oh, my back hurts
so much.
I'm like, yeah, you're sittingdown all day.
Oh, my back hurts so much.
I'm like, yeah, you're sittingdown all day.
Of course it's going to work.
What do you do for activity?
It's like not much.
Or I try to do this stretching,or these cobras.
I'm like, let's get youdeadlifting.
Your body will respond to thatRight and successfully
(19:13):
implementing this strengthtraining program.
It's.
It's not just about thephysical piece.
You're going to buildconfidence through small,
consistent wins as youaccomplish this hard thing, but
do it in a controlled way.
Every successful trainingsession you have.
Every little increase in weightor reps, it becomes evidence to
(19:34):
you that challenges thenarrative that you're vulnerable
because you're not.
Your back has so much potentialand capability to be strong.
It is not fragile at all.
It is highly adaptable,whatever age.
You are right, and this is whyhaving proper guidance, proper
coaching, is so valuable.
Just get the form right.
You've got to get the formright, even if it's spending one
(19:54):
hour with like a startingstrength coach or knowledgeable
coach or talking to me and wecan do a console, we can do a
free call or you can jump intoour program and get some um, you
know, for the first month ortwo, as you're figuring this out
, send videos and really rapidlyskill up or level up your
knowledge and ability.
And, uh, you know, a goodexpert will help you distinguish
(20:16):
between what we'll call harmfulpain and the normal discomfort
of training, although if you'vehad pain, you kind of will know
the difference.
Right Between that and somesoreness and the way that I'm
asking you to train, where it'sfairly heavy, compound lifts,
not a lot of reps.
There is a lot of rest period.
You're only doing it three daysa week actually doesn't involve
much soreness.
(20:36):
It shouldn't hurt.
You're actually just going tofeel stronger and stronger over
time and then you're actuallygoing to notice the pain going
away.
That's the really cool thingthat I want you to get to, all
right.
So this is all a long-termthing, but the change can happen
quickly.
You know, building strength isis a process.
It takes time, right.
It's measured over months andyears.
(20:58):
However, I've seen pain reliefcome in as little as a few days,
like just a few sessions.
Right, and again, you don'thave to start super heavy.
The goal is not to address theback pain.
The goal is not to lose weightwith your nutrition right, like
all those things.
The goal is not to hit PRs.
(21:19):
The goal is to have afoundation of strength that
supports your active,independent lifestyle that is
pain-free.
Now are you going to have alittle bit of pain in certain
areas for the rest of your life?
Maybe, I don't know.
I'm not here to help you withthat right?
I know that there's aspectswith me, for example, my
(21:39):
shoulder, where I'm dealing withwhat to do to work around it,
to keep it strong despite alittle bit of pain, but I think
that's different than what we'retalking about today with the
back right, I think we'retalking about the chronic pain
that a lot of people have, andthey have a fear and they stay
stuck in that fear becausethey're not taking the time to
(22:01):
strengthen the back and thenprove to themselves that they
can do it, thus breaking throughthe fear cycle.
So if we can get a consistent,structured progression, compound
lifts, gradually get heavier,build that strength, you're
gonna be good.
Now, before I forget, there wasone last thing in my notes, and
that was rehab and training.
(22:23):
Right, people think of these astwo different buckets strength
training and then rehab.
Um, my, my good.
Uh, I'll call him a friend, buthe was my physical therapist
for a bit and we still stay intouch.
John Petrizzo, he was on theshow.
He combines the two as if theyare basically one in the same,
in in just the right way.
What I mean by that is, theexercises that strengthen a bad
(22:44):
back are the same ones thatbuild an impressive physique.
They're just at differentpoints on the intensity spectrum
.
Like, you may have to makecertain modifications, but you
don't have to choose betweenhealing your back and building a
strong body.
I don't want you to go and justdo quote, unquote mobility and
band and stretching work.
That is not enough.
You have to train, and abarbell is one of the most
(23:10):
effective ways to do that.
Obviously, you could usedumbbells and such, but when it
comes to deadlifts, a barbell isa really effective tool for the
job.
And I've worked with so manyclients in their forties, their
fifties, their sixties who cameto me with back problems and an
assumption that they needed somesort of watered down program or
senior friendly program or oldperson program.
Right.
And we're like no, let's get inthe gym, let's get that power
rack and bar set up and go afterit.
(23:30):
We'll just start light andwe'll work up to it and it won't
take long before you get superstrong and then you get this
pain-free strength that younever thought possible.
I've started clients in their60s, women in their 60s, never
lifted before.
Maybe they have trouble bendingover to tie their shoes without
pain, maybe they have troublegetting off the couch and we
(23:50):
start with, say, chair squatsand then we go to box squats and
then we go to full squats andwe're talking.
Within weeks they're startingto get super strong.
So if you're listening to thisand you're thinking that can't
be me.
I want you to question thatright now.
The human body at any age, hasa remarkable capacity to adapt
and grow stronger at any age.
(24:11):
Again, I just said any agetwice.
But it's important right.
Your back is not fragile.
It's not destined to be aliability.
It can become one of yourgreatest assets for your posture
, your strength, your functionand a pain-free life, if you
just give it the opportunity.
So let's wrap it up.
What's the key point?
Strength training isn't justsafe for most people with back
(24:33):
issues.
It's essential for back issuesto improve your back health.
Start where you are, focus onproper technique, follow a
progressive plan that evolvesthrough the capabilities, be
patient and the rewards willabsolutely follow, because your
body's capable of far more thanyou might currently believe and
the limitations you perceive arejust that.
They are perceptions, they'renot physical realities.
(24:55):
All right, if you have aquestion you'd like me to
address on a future episode, goto witsandweightscom slash
question or click the link inthe show notes.
Maybe it's about strengthtraining, nutrition, mindset,
consistency, anything.
I'd love to help you overcomewhatever's standing in your way
and absolutely feature it on theshow and give you a shout out
(25:17):
as well, if you'd like thatUntil next time, keep using your
wits lifting those weights andremember, when it comes to back
pain, the solution isn't toavoid strength, it's to build it
.
I'll talk to you next time hereon the Wits and Weights Podcast
.
If you are experiencing back issues of any
kind a little bit of back painand fatigue all the way up to
more significant back problemsor a quote-unquote bad back that
leaves you either sitting oreven in your bed or on the couch
for stretches at a time, andthen you hear phrases like heavy
lifting.
You might think that that isnot for me.
I'll stick to my walking, mylighter weights, my machine work
(00:24):
, but what if avoiding theheavier weights is what's
keeping you from building thestrong, resilient body and back
that you need?
Today we are talking about thecounterintuitive thinking behind
building strength with backissues.
That will change the way youapproach strength training when
it comes to your back.
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a
(00:56):
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, philip Pape, andtoday we're answering a
fantastic question from alistener named Kristen that I
think perfectly captures theconcern shared by millions of
people women, men of many ages,especially over 40, over 50, and
(01:19):
beyond.
And Kristen wrote, quote I'm a51-year-old woman who is
overweight and I need a greatprogram and tips for strength
training for a strong, healthyfuture in my body.
I have a back problem, so whenI hear heavy lifting, I'm not
sure this is a great fit for mepersonally.
What are your thoughts Now?
I did get back to Kristen witha lot of details specific to her
(01:42):
, but today I want to answer thecrucial thing that I think this
question hits on that there's amassive disconnect between what
many people believe they shoulddo for their bodies, especially
as they get older, and what theevidence actually supports.
The truth is that not only canmost people with back issues
safely perform strength trainingwith barbells and heavier loads
(02:04):
, but it might be exactly whatthey need for long-term back
health.
The one caveat is I am not amedical expert.
I'm not a doctor.
I'm not dispensing medicaladvice, so, when in doubt,
always seek the help of aprofessional or a physical
therapist.
I know some great ones in theindustry, in fact, and I've
worked with them myself, buttoday we're going to break down
(02:25):
the principles and specificapproaches in general that can
help Kristen and everyone in asimilar situation build the
strength that they need for thisvibrant, active future for
decades to come, no matter whatage you are.
Now, before we get intospecifics, if you have a
question that you'd like me toaddress on a future episode,
(02:47):
just like I'm doing today,featuring Kristen's question.
And you want a personal replyfrom me?
Just go to witsandweightscomslash question or click the link
in the show notes.
And I love these questionsbecause they allow me to address
the real concerns that areholding you back, that
preventing you from reachingyour potential, that you're
curious about, that are holdingyou back, that preventing you
from reaching your potential,that you're curious about, that
(03:07):
are very specific and contextualto you and I'd be happy to
tackle your question orsituation in an episode.
Usually it's going to befeatured all on its own and I'm
going to give you a shout out,just like I did today for
Kristen.
So go to witsandweightscomslash question to do that.
All right, let us start byunderstanding what the problem
is.
After I got Kristen's question,I followed up.
(03:29):
I asked her some more detailsbecause it always depends right
and she shared with me that shehad injured her back in her 20s.
She has very weak core muscles,she occasionally has flare-ups
where she could be bedridden forup to a week, and she mentioned
specifically that poor form hadcaused a severe episode where
she couldn't even get out of bedfor five days.
(03:49):
Now I can definitely relate tothis.
I've had back surgery and it wasexacerbated when I had a
herniated disc while I waslifting with poor form.
I remember specifically Iforgot to put on my belt not
that you need to have a belt,but I forgot to put on my
lifting belt for the final set.
Not that you need to have abelt, but I forgot to put on my
lifting belt for the final setof really heavy deadlifts.
I was in a gym talking withpeople getting totally
(04:10):
distracted and I just went afterit just in a very sloppy way.
This is, this is before.
I knew better and I could justfeel that I pulled something,
but it was just an exacerbated,um uh injury from years and
years.
That probably happened when Iwas in CrossFit and or
snowboarding, you'll never know,but in this case it sounds like
she, you know, liftedimproperly and she said she
(04:33):
walks one to two times a week,uses machines at the gym one to
three times a week doing chestpress rows, pec, fly seated leg
presses, and she gave me somespecific numbers and reps and
you know I again I gave herspecific advice.
But what I want to talk abouttoday are are three key
principles that will change howyou think about strength
(04:54):
training with back issues, andthis is especially true for men
and women in midlife, over 40,over 50, when these things
really start to catch up withyou.
So principle number one is thestronger back paradox.
All right, this is where mostpeople believe that having back
issues means you should avoidchallenging your back through
(05:17):
heavy lifting.
But the evidence points in theopposite direction, because a
weak back is more vulnerable toinjury than a strong back.
When I say it that way, you'relike yeah, okay, that makes
intuitive sense.
But when you avoid trainingyour back due to fear of injury,
then you're creating aself-fulfilling prophecy, aren't
you?
(05:37):
Your back, then, remains weak.
It's unstable.
It is prone to exactly theinjuries you're trying to avoid.
Most people are going to gettheir back injured doing
something stupid, like trying tolift something up into the back
of a truck and twisting theirbody, and they lift it up with a
massive amount of back curving.
You know those kinds of thingsVery rarely, but occasionally
(06:01):
somebody might injure themselvesin the gym, but again, it's
usually because of very poorform or trying to do too much
too quickly.
The research shows us thatprogressive overload,
progressive resistance, trainingright.
This is where you continue toget stronger over time actually
reduces back pain and improvesfunction in most individuals who
have chronic back issues.
(06:21):
A 2016 systematic review in theJournal of Rehabilitation
Medicine found that strengthtraining led to significant
reductions in pain andimprovements in physical
function for individuals withchronic low back pain, and I've
seen it directly with so manyclients clients who were
hesitant to lift weights.
We got them doing deadlifts and, all of a sudden, the pain
(06:42):
starts to go away and they'reshocked, they're surprised, but
they're super happy and pleased.
Um and I've seen this time andtime again start deadlifting.
Now, this paradox applies toKristen situation perfectly,
because, by limiting yourself tolight machine work, I think
she's missing out on thetraining stimulus that can make
her back more resilient, and Itold her this.
You know she I'm not callingher out here, she knows.
(07:03):
You know I said the thing thatI first learned through starting
strength right it's better tohave a strong, bad back than a
weak bad back, and, of course,bad back is a subjective thing
that we like to label, but thestrong back is going to serve
you far better in daily life.
The key, though, is leading meto principle number two that
progressive overload isnon-negotiable.
(07:25):
So when you think, okay, whatdoes it mean to have a strong
back?
Well, you actually have tochallenge it.
You have to adapt your body toincreasing demands over time.
If you keep lifting the sameweights, the same you know loads
, the same exercises forever,your body has no reason to build
more strength or muscle andit's going to stay at its
current level.
(07:45):
And I would say that this iseven more critical for older
folks, people over 40, 50, 60.
I did an episode specificallygeared toward the over 50 crowd
where I talked about theimportance of the big compound
lifts specifically for the backand for bone density and for
like those functional thingsthat we really care about.
(08:06):
Take women, for example.
After menopause, women can lose3% to 8% of their muscle mass
per decade.
Of course, men lose muscle massas well, but for women it
increases at an acceleratingrate because of the hormones.
So in your 20s and 30s you hada let's call it good enough,
quote unquote strong back andyou had some muscle.
(08:39):
Just that came along for theride.
Well, now you're losing thatmuscle.
So unless you do somethingabout it, it's just going to get
worse.
So when Kristen mentioned thatshe increases weight when it
feels too easy, which was one ofthe replies when we were
discussing this.
We talked about how ourperception of difficulty some
people call it RPE, or just youknow how it feels is pretty
(09:01):
subjective.
It's influenced by a lot ofthings on that day that you go
into the gym, your sleep quality, your stress, your nutrition,
you know whether you're gainingor losing weight at the time, or
in a calorie deficit or not.
And this is why I like astructured plan that takes the
guesswork out and does notdepend on how you feel for the
day until you get much moreadvanced and and can really rely
(09:24):
on that.
And so for all of us whosebodies are going to be forever
aging and you're worried aboutthat muscle loss, the principle
of progressive overload has tobe applied, and applied
intelligently.
You know, small, consistentincreases over time, not
dramatic jumps, not taking lotsof time off from the gym and
also not just staying at thesame weight.
Right, it's okay, if you'redoing 30 pounds now, go in the
(09:48):
next session or the next weekand try 35.
And your body will continue toadapt and stay strong when you
do that.
And then, principle number threeI just slightly alluded to this
already, but I'm a big fan offocusing on movement patterns
over isolated muscle groups whenthe concern is a strong back.
Kristen said she was usingmachines.
(10:11):
I think that's great.
It's definitely better thannothing, and certain machines
can definitely give you similarresults for hypertrophy, for
building muscle, but it's notgoing to develop the coordinated
function of multiple musclegroups working together for that
overall stability and posteriorchain, which is what your back
(10:31):
needs.
It needs those very strongrope-like attachments that go up
your spine to becomestrengthened, and that is best
accomplished through, you know,a systematic multi-joint,
multi-muscle compound lifts.
Because back pain here's thething it usually stems not from
a single weak muscle but fromnot moving the right way.
(10:54):
Right, doing again, I said doingsomething stupid right and the
fact that you don't have verygood coordination between your
muscle groups.
You are just notneuromuscularly adapted to it
and training on machines mightfeel safer, but it bypasses the
development of theseneuromuscular connections.
Think about it Functionalmovements like squats, deadlifts
(11:14):
.
They train the body as anintegrated system.
They teach your bodies or yourmuscles to work together and
they develop what we're going tocall useful strength.
Right, useful strength, notjust big muscles, not just size,
not just higher load for thesake of it, but the actual
strength that translates todaily activities lifting and
(11:36):
carrying your groceries, movingfurniture, playing with your
grandchildren all the thingsthat actually end up pulling
people's backs right.
Even just the fact that youhave to sit in front of a
computer for your jobpotentially could cause back
issues.
But having a stronger backthrough coordinated, functional
I hate the word functional, butthe compound movements is going
to mitigate that significantly.
(11:56):
And again, this doesn't meanmachines have no place.
So, kristen, I'm talking to youas well.
I don't want you to feel badwith some of the stuff I'm
saying in this episode.
They can be extremely valuablefor building specific muscles,
for working around limitations.
In fact I'm going to do anepisode soon about building
muscle despite injuries andlimitations, so you might
actually like that one as well.
(12:17):
But the machine shouldcomplement right.
They should complement and notreplace the compound movements.
I think those should be thefoundation right, especially
deadlifts when it comes to backhealth.
And if you're not doing them yet, kristen, you can start with a
light, empty bar and work yourway up from that.
(12:37):
If you can pick something offthe ground for a set of five
with very little effort, thenyou could, of course, pick
something slightly heavier for aset of five and heavier for a
set of, and eventually you'regonna hit a point where it
starts to feel heavy and yourbody will then adapt by building
more connections, neuromuscularconnections, as well as
building muscle over time, andthat's what's going to make your
(12:57):
back really, really strong.
Now let's talk about puttingthis all together for a, you
know, application of theprinciples.
I don't want to get too deep inthe weeds about, like specific
programming, um programming,prescriptions, I should say, and
it also doesn't mean you haveto jump straight into, like
super, what you would considerheavy barbell deadlifts If you
(13:21):
have back issues.
Of course, again, as I saidbefore, caveat, this is not
medical advice.
If it's something that issurgically indicated or requires
physical therapy, that's reallyup between you and your doctor.
What I would suggest, however,from a training perspective, is
starting with the movementpatterns using body weight or
very light resistance.
(13:42):
Yeah, that could be bands, thatcould be an empty bar, an empty
light bar.
Right, there are light barbells, there are women's barbells
that are 35 pounds, and thenthere's even 15 pound bars or
even just like a broom handle.
So if you can learn how tobrace, how to breathe right,
stabilize your spine and have aneutral spine during the
movement, learning the squat andthe deadlift pattern properly.
(14:05):
I can't tell you pretty muchevery client that I start
working with when they send metheir first video of them doing
a deadlift, it's always got somemajor issues the bar's way too
far from the legs, they'rerounding their back.
There's something that's offthat I know you're going to get
injured by, and this is also whyworking with a trainer or coach
can be really helpful.
I know I mentioned, you know,physique University.
(14:26):
In there you could post a videoand get a form check from me.
I will break it down either intext or on a screen share video
and I'll say look, here are the,here are your, here's your low
hanging fruit and here are thecues that you can use to improve
your movement pattern.
Um, so it's.
It's.
It's the hip hinge right, thefoundation of the deadlifts.
It's the uh core stability thatyou get through doing squats
(14:50):
and deadlifts and progressingthem over time.
It's modified versions of thosemovements.
If you need them.
Like, let's say, you carry alot of excess weight and you
can't get into a squat, maybeyou could do a leg press, all
right.
But let me tell you, I workwith clients who are in excess
of 300 pounds on the scale andthey can generally do all of
these movement patterns.
They just have to be taught theright way to do it and start
light and work your way up rightthe.
(15:13):
The key here is we're notavoiding the movements that
challenge the back.
We are introducing them in acontrolled way that builds
strength and confidence.
And if you could do it lightwith good form, then eventually
you could do it heavy with goodform and your body will adapt to
it.
So again, if you needmodifications, like if you have
to do goblet squats, initiallyreally light, with a kettlebell
(15:35):
or dumbbell, then that's fine.
Start with goblet squats.
If you had to do kettlebelldeadlifts instead of just full
up deadlifts, or if you have touse a trap bar I'm not going to,
you know, get dogmatic here,criticize you for that I think
it's great If you have to doseated overhead presses instead
of standing overhead presses,right, like.
As long as you're doing themovement patterns and then you
(15:56):
have the appropriate load onyour spine, establish you know
proper technique and then startto progress.
You're going to be able toadapt to it as you go, and that
is the best way not to getinjured.
So I think perhaps the mostimportant thing when it comes to
the back is actually not thephysical, it's the psychological
(16:17):
, it's the fear of the re-injury, and I get this.
At the same time, I was soexcited to want to get back to
lifting, because I had done itfor several years before my back
surgery that that building ofthe habit and the strength
actually got me through withoutnearly the amount of fear I
(16:37):
suspect I would have had if Iwasn't a lifter and I wasn't
already in shape.
And so I've talked here andthere before about the
importance of being strongleading into a surgery.
And again we're talking aboutinjury.
But, like, a lot of people getinjured and then they have to do
something about it, they haveto recover, and then they're
afraid that they're going to getinjured again.
And then what pain specialistscall this is fear avoidance
(17:00):
behavior, right, and that'swhere you limit your movement to
avoid the pain.
So, kristen, if you'relistening to this, and that's
the thing that is going on um,you know, recognizing that is a
good step one, for.
And then we're going to talkquickly about breaking the cycle
.
But what does the cycle looklike?
Well, you have fear, then youavoid the movement, then, when
you avoid the movement, you getdeconditioned, you get weak,
(17:23):
weakness increases vulnerabilityto injury and then the injury
reinforces the fear.
Right, so that's the viciouscycle.
Fear, right, so that's thevicious cycle.
And so it requires this mentalshift in your psychology from
seeing your back as fragile andso so fragile right, you think
it's fragile, it's breakableinstead to thinking of it as
(17:44):
adaptable, flexible andadaptable, but in a in a
positive way.
So this is a reframe that I'masking you to consider right now
instead of thinking your backas this fragile thing, think of
as an adaptable thing, right,and that doesn't mean you ignore
pain or you push throughinjuries.
It means that you work withyour body, doing the things we
talked about putting it incontrolled movement patterns and
(18:07):
expanding the capability andthe competence over time, by
getting stronger as your bodygets stronger mentally and
physically.
Right, instead of accepting thatthis is some sort of limitation
, because, let me tell you,every single person over 30 has
a back quote, unquote issue, andif they got an MRI, it would
show something in their spinethat an orthopedic surgeon would
say, yeah, we need to go inthere and cut you open, okay, um
(18:30):
, and I had back surgery and ittook me a while before I got to
the point of saying, no, Iactually need the surgery
because I had an impinged, uhdisc impinging on my nerve, so
it was literally sending ashooting pain down into my nerve
continuously.
Um, and as soon as the doctorjust removed the material, I was
fine and I was able to walk.
And I've been great ever sincelifting PRs for my deadlift.
(18:51):
I mean, I just did a new PRrecently.
Um, and I know for a fact I'veseen people who are engineers
cause I know a lot of engineerswho are like, oh, my back hurts
so much.
I'm like, yeah, you're sittingdown all day.
Oh, my back hurts so much.
I'm like, yeah, you're sittingdown all day.
Of course it's going to work.
What do you do for activity?
It's like not much.
Or I try to do this stretching,or these cobras.
I'm like, let's get youdeadlifting.
Your body will respond to thatRight and successfully
(19:13):
implementing this strengthtraining program.
It's.
It's not just about thephysical piece.
You're going to buildconfidence through small,
consistent wins as youaccomplish this hard thing, but
do it in a controlled way.
Every successful trainingsession you have.
Every little increase in weightor reps, it becomes evidence to
(19:34):
you that challenges thenarrative that you're vulnerable
because you're not.
Your back has so much potentialand capability to be strong.
It is not fragile at all.
It is highly adaptable,whatever age.
You are right, and this is whyhaving proper guidance, proper
coaching, is so valuable.
Just get the form right.
You've got to get the formright, even if it's spending one
(19:54):
hour with like a startingstrength coach or knowledgeable
coach or talking to me and wecan do a console, we can do a
free call or you can jump intoour program and get some um, you
know, for the first month ortwo, as you're figuring this out
, send videos and really rapidlyskill up or level up your
knowledge and ability.
And, uh, you know, a goodexpert will help you distinguish
(20:16):
between what we'll call harmfulpain and the normal discomfort
of training, although if you'vehad pain, you kind of will know
the difference.
Right Between that and somesoreness and the way that I'm
asking you to train, where it'sfairly heavy, compound lifts,
not a lot of reps.
There is a lot of rest period.
You're only doing it three daysa week actually doesn't involve
much soreness.
(20:36):
It shouldn't hurt.
You're actually just going tofeel stronger and stronger over
time and then you're actuallygoing to notice the pain going
away.
That's the really cool thingthat I want you to get to, all
right.
So this is all a long-termthing, but the change can happen
quickly.
You know, building strength isis a process.
It takes time, right.
It's measured over months andyears.
(20:58):
However, I've seen pain reliefcome in as little as a few days,
like just a few sessions.
Right, and again, you don'thave to start super heavy.
The goal is not to address theback pain.
The goal is not to lose weightwith your nutrition right, like
all those things.
The goal is not to hit PRs.
(21:19):
The goal is to have afoundation of strength that
supports your active,independent lifestyle that is
pain-free.
Now are you going to have alittle bit of pain in certain
areas for the rest of your life?
Maybe, I don't know.
I'm not here to help you withthat right?
I know that there's aspectswith me, for example, my
(21:39):
shoulder, where I'm dealing withwhat to do to work around it,
to keep it strong despite alittle bit of pain, but I think
that's different than what we'retalking about today with the
back right, I think we'retalking about the chronic pain
that a lot of people have, andthey have a fear and they stay
stuck in that fear becausethey're not taking the time to
(22:01):
strengthen the back and thenprove to themselves that they
can do it, thus breaking throughthe fear cycle.
So if we can get a consistent,structured progression, compound
lifts, gradually get heavier,build that strength, you're
gonna be good.
Now, before I forget, there wasone last thing in my notes, and
that was rehab and training.
(22:23):
Right, people think of these astwo different buckets strength
training and then rehab.
Um, my, my good.
Uh, I'll call him a friend, buthe was my physical therapist
for a bit and we still stay intouch.
John Petrizzo, he was on theshow.
He combines the two as if theyare basically one in the same,
in in just the right way.
What I mean by that is, theexercises that strengthen a bad
(22:44):
back are the same ones thatbuild an impressive physique.
They're just at differentpoints on the intensity spectrum
.
Like, you may have to makecertain modifications, but you
don't have to choose betweenhealing your back and building a
strong body.
I don't want you to go and justdo quote, unquote mobility and
band and stretching work.
That is not enough.
You have to train, and abarbell is one of the most
(23:10):
effective ways to do that.
Obviously, you could usedumbbells and such, but when it
comes to deadlifts, a barbell isa really effective tool for the
job.
And I've worked with so manyclients in their forties, their
fifties, their sixties who cameto me with back problems and an
assumption that they needed somesort of watered down program or
senior friendly program or oldperson program.
Right.
And we're like no, let's get inthe gym, let's get that power
rack and bar set up and go afterit.
(23:30):
We'll just start light andwe'll work up to it and it won't
take long before you get superstrong and then you get this
pain-free strength that younever thought possible.
I've started clients in their60s, women in their 60s, never
lifted before.
Maybe they have trouble bendingover to tie their shoes without
pain, maybe they have troublegetting off the couch and we
(23:50):
start with, say, chair squatsand then we go to box squats and
then we go to full squats andwe're talking.
Within weeks they're startingto get super strong.
So if you're listening to thisand you're thinking that can't
be me.
I want you to question thatright now.
The human body at any age, hasa remarkable capacity to adapt
and grow stronger at any age.
(24:11):
Again, I just said any agetwice.
But it's important right.
Your back is not fragile.
It's not destined to be aliability.
It can become one of yourgreatest assets for your posture
, your strength, your functionand a pain-free life, if you
just give it the opportunity.
So let's wrap it up.
What's the key point?
Strength training isn't justsafe for most people with back
(24:33):
issues.
It's essential for back issuesto improve your back health.
Start where you are, focus onproper technique, follow a
progressive plan that evolvesthrough the capabilities, be
patient and the rewards willabsolutely follow, because your
body's capable of far more thanyou might currently believe and
the limitations you perceive arejust that.
They are perceptions, they'renot physical realities.
(24:55):
All right, if you have aquestion you'd like me to
address on a future episode, goto witsandweightscom slash
question or click the link inthe show notes.
Maybe it's about strengthtraining, nutrition, mindset,
consistency, anything.
I'd love to help you overcomewhatever's standing in your way
and absolutely feature it on theshow and give you a shout out
(25:17):
as well, if you'd like thatUntil next time, keep using your
wits lifting those weights andremember, when it comes to back
pain, the solution isn't toavoid strength, it's to build it
.
I'll talk to you next time hereon the Wits and Weights Podcast
.
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