Why Perimenopause Fat Loss Feels Harder After 40 (Brooke Davis) | Ep 323 - Wits & Weights | Fat Loss, Nutrition, & Strength Training for Lifters

Episode Transcript
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Philip Pape (00:01):
If you're a woman over 40 who's been doing all the
right things but can't seem tolose stubborn fat around your
midsection, you're not alone andyou're not crazy.
The strategies at work in your30s suddenly seem useless and no
matter how much you cutcalories or increase cardio, the
scale refuses to budge.
What's worse, your doctor mighthave told you this is just what

(00:23):
happens after 40, withoutoffering any real solutions.
Today, I invited on a women'shealth expert to reveal why
perimenopause creates theperfect hormonal storm for fat
gain, why eat less, move moreactually backfires during this
life stage, and the specificnutrition and lifestyle
adjustments that can help youreclaim your metabolism without

(00:43):
sacrificing your sanity.
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, philip Pape, andtoday I'm bringing you a
collaboration with Brooke Davis,founder of Elysian Women's

(01:04):
Wellness and host of the FitnessSimplified podcast.
Make sure to follow her podcast, because we're dropping two
episodes simultaneously fordifferent parts of the
conversation.
Today on this podcast, we'retalking about a very hot topic
fat loss during perimenopause.
What is really going on withyour hormones, your metabolism,
body composition during thistransition?

(01:26):
How to shift what you do yournutrition, your lifestyle,
without quick fixes, withoutdetoxes, cutting carbs, any of
the other nonsense you mighthear all over the internet today
.
Brooke has spent over a decadehelping hundreds of women
navigate midlife fitness.
She's a certified nutritioncoach, personal trainer, women's

(01:50):
health specialist.
She's done it all.
She's developed protocols thataddress the specific hormonal
shifts of peri andpost-menopause to help women
transform their bodies whenother methods have stopped
working.
So today you are going to learnwhy the usual fat loss advice
won't cut it for women over 40.
The true non-negotiables duringthis phase and the best
nutrition and lifestylebehaviors to support your
hormones.
Last thing, before we get intoit, if you want to hear the

(02:12):
other side of this conversation,make sure to follow the Fitness
Simplified podcast.
Brooke is interviewing me onthe muscle and metabolism side
of this during fat loss forperimenopause.
It's all.
There's a lot of overlap anyway, isn't there?
And that dropped the same dayas this episode.
So Fitness Simplified Podcastor click the link in the show
notes.
Brooke, enough of me talking,welcome to the show.

Brooke Davis (02:31):
Hello, hello, thank you for having me.
I'm super excited to chat today.

So let's get right into the topic, which is why the
heck is it so hard for women asthey get older, whether it's
because of hormones or somethingelse?
You tell us to lose fat, orperhaps you gain body fat.
What is going on?

There are so, so, so many factors, you know, and,
as you mentioned, uh, hormones.
That is one of the biggestthings that is changing right.
Uh, literally women's internalchemistry, that is changing
right, literally women'sinternal chemistry, their
physiology, is shifting majorly.
Hormones that you know havekept us steady throughout our
entire life are at a majordecline, along with fluctuations

(03:15):
throughout this time, and youknow, a lot of women are like oh
I just, you know, need to havemore willpower, my metabolism is
failing, things like that.
But you know, the reality isthat a lot of times, it's
nothing that they're doing wrongper se.
It's just that the things thatthey need to do now, versus when

(03:35):
they were 20, do have to bedifferent, because they
themselves are different.
They're like I said, theirwhole physiology is actually
shifting in a pretty big way,and so those strategies that
used to work don't really workanymore.
Yeah, long story short.

Yeah, yeah, no, no, great, Please.
It's good to get into these andI'm always champing at the bit
with follow-up questions,because you said some really
neat things there.
One thing you mentioned and Iwant to pull the thread is
things have changed.
Your physiology has changed.
The thing you did in your 20sisn't working.
But let me ask you thishonestly how many people are
doing even the right things intheir 20s?
Because I want to set the stageand how are they getting away
with not doing the right things?
Let's be honest.

Yeah, so, like you mentioned, most people in their
20s when you put it like that,they're not doing the optimal
things.
Right, they might do thingsthat produce results in terms of
fat loss, but they're notnecessarily doing the things
that are going to bring themoptimal health.
And you know this is why, likeyou said, there's a lot of
overlap, because the reality ofit is that the things that bring

(04:38):
you optimal health in your 20swill bring you fat loss and
optimal health in your 40s, butmost people in their 20s don't
care about optimal health, theydon't care about the rate at
which they get the fat lossresults that they're looking for
, and so what tends to happen isthey're taking really extreme,
really ultimately stressfulmeasures you know, stressful on

(04:59):
their bodies to reach the goalsthat they want.
You know they're exercising waytoo much.
You know they're usually it'shigh intensity, which there's
nothing wrong with that.
That's great when that's allyou're doing, and a lot of it.
They're under nourishing orunder eating in general, and you
know they're really not, like Isaid, focused on nutrients, not
focused on nourishing theirbody.

(05:20):
Everything they do is reallyextreme.
So that is, I mean, the biggestkind of shift that needs to
occur is that your body doesn'tnow, in your 40s, even honestly
30s, like I'm 34, I'm going tobe 35 next year, so you know
your body doesn't have theresilience for it anymore.
And one of the things I'm afunctional diagnostic

(05:42):
nutritionist and one of our likekind of coin terms is vital
reserve.
And when you're 20, right, youhave that vital reserve.
Well, some people do, somepeople don't, right.
But when you're 40, and you'vebeen doing those things for, you
know, 20 years, maybe stressingyour body out, undernourishing,
right, burning the candle atboth ends, not getting enough

(06:02):
sleep your body doesn't have thevital reserve to continue to
function well, or well enoughthat you don't notice it in your
40s.

Yeah, there are some nuances there that I think
are lost on some people.
Because I wanted to ask it thatway, because I can think of my
20s like I got away with a lotof things.
Now I wasn't into fitness, Iwas definitely doing lots of
weird diets, going back to SlimFast and Atkins and all that
stuff.
That's how old I am.
I'm in my 40s, so about 10 yeardifference.
But it's like the thought thatin your 20s the things you can

(06:38):
do, your body just can mitigatethem significantly, Like you
suggested.
That's more resilient, the vitalreserve.
It's like you can get away withit and you learn these bad
habits, Like you just end uplearning or thinking that this
works and that's the best way todo it.
Uh, overexercising, like yousaid, under nourishing, which is
a great substitute word forunder eating, because then it
implies it's not just about foodin general or energy in general

(07:01):
, it's nutrients, it's vitality,it's support of your body.
And then what about?
Let's get into thephysiological changes?
It sounds like there's a doublewhammy going on of accumulation
you mentioned accumulatedstress, for example of just bad
habits, so that starts in yourtwenties and then the physiology
changes on top of that.
So maybe we focus on that pieceof it.

Yeah, so I mean hormonally speaking.
Right, we'll start inphysiologically and
perimenopause, the first thingto go is estrogen and
progesterone, which are, youknow, our two main sex
reproductive hormones, and sowith that, progesterone is
usually at a pretty steadydecline, and that is what tends

(07:44):
to kind of cause issuesinitially.
And then what happens is theestrogen is doing this like
along the way, so it'sdrastically increasing and
tanking, increasing tanking,which is putting you into, you
know, estrogen dominance, notzero estrogen dominance, and
that is what causes a ton of thesymptoms that women probably

(08:08):
have the most complaints about,which is like weight loss
resistance, the accumulation offat around the belly, the hot
flashes, night sweats, thingslike that are.
Those are, those are the mostcommon complaints, and that is
caused by those massivefluctuations in estrogen.
So it's not just about thatthese hormones are declining,
it's that they're erratic andthat in and of itself is really

(08:30):
stressful on the body, as onecan imagine.
And then, on top of that, thosefluctuations, quite literally,
you have estrogen receptorsthroughout your entire body,
from your brain, your joints,your muscles, and so every
system in the body is thenimpacted by that.
And then going into cortisol,your cortisol is, you know,

(08:52):
you're against sensitivity tothese things.
Uh is really elevated, and socortisol then is impacted.
Uh, so your adrenal glands andyour adrenal glands what a lot
of people don't know are likeyour secondary sex hormone
producers, so they're basicallyall you have left after your
ovaries are done, which I thinkif people knew that, they would
pay more attention to stressmanagement, like going into this

(09:14):
, because that is a major, majorfactor.
And so those are, I mean, someof the main like impacted uh
hormone systems and that go onduring perimenopause.

Yeah, that's.
That's really well described,because sometimes it gets
oversimplified with like well,progesterone, estrogen,
testosterone they all drop.
Like okay, is it?
It's more than that.
What you talked about theestrogen erraticness, the
scarcity versus the dominanceand it's relative to the other
hormones too is what you implied, plus the fact that your body's
sensitive to estrogen.

(09:48):
You know it's funny because Ibelieve men are as well.
But right, we don't have thatvariance.
So we can't get what's going onwith the ladies in this time of
their life.
And then, of course, thedownstream of cortisol, which
cortisol is a boogeyman for lotsof things.
But what you're suggesting it'slike downstream, it's an
indicator of what is going onyour HP axis, your adrenal
glands, so it's all tiedtogether and I like that you

(10:09):
brought up symptoms as well,because I think that's a good
source of biofeedback.
And listening to your body oflike okay, you've got the hot
flashes, you're building excessbelly fat, you're not able to
lose weight, something's tellingyou and hope is not all lost,
right, like it's not the end ofthe road.
So, before we get into the like, what to do and more details,
what about testosterone and DHEA?

(10:30):
Where are they coming to thepicture?

Yeah, um, so testosterone is also declining,
unfortunately.
That's a.
That's a big one.
Dhea, right, that's kind oflike uh, your again your backup,
right, it's made in theadrenals and so that, um, the
supporting your adrenal healthand making sure that stress
management is a really big partof really like as much of life

(10:52):
as you can make it, from asearly as you can make, it is
really powerful, like I justfunny backstory.
So my grandma, she's 91 thisyear and she's been taking this
supplement for like a reallylong time.
It's called unforgettable, soit's like a brain health
supplement.
But I looked at it, I waslooking at the ingredients and
there's phosphatidylserine in itand that is a like cortisol,

(11:16):
regular decreases cortisol inthe body and I'm like and she
was talking about how likemenopause like really wasn't a
thing for like it wasn't anissue.
She's always just been likecruising a lot and she like she
still has horses, she livesalmost on her own, like she's
very independent, and I was likeI wonder if that's like your
secret weapon, right?
here, this you know cortisolmanagement, grandma, like that's
.
You know how powerful that isand not that obviously that's.

It's not a causation, or you know to end
the podcast right there and saycall it action, go get your.
Here's your affiliate link, bythe way.
Yeah.

No, I don't, I don't sell that product but um,
but no, it was just really coolCause I'm like interesting Um so
so so wait, is it?

is it acting?
Is it acting like a nootropicor adaptogen kind of like
Ashwagandha?

Um, um, no, foster , no, it's just, uh, it just
helps manage, uh, cortisol and,like I said, it just makes it
less impactful on the body,right, and so it actually lowers
your cortisol in general.
But, um, so it's not actuallyindicated for everybody, like if
you already have, you know,whatever adrenal quote-unquote,
adrenal fatigue is that like, itmay not be for everybody, so
don't don't go run out and getyour phosphat.
Um, but it was just like, itjust was funny that you know

(12:27):
that's like a big thing and mygrandma and my day and you've
one-year-old grandma is likecrushing it over here.
So um but yeah so.
So, dj, like I said, in theadrenals, the adrenal glands are
really, really powerful andthey are your backup engine
basically to hormone productionand, um you know, less symptoms
through perimenopause.
Uh, there have been studies towhere, um, you know, women whose

(12:50):
nervous system was moreregulated, right, they were more
in that parasympathetic state.
They experienced less to no hotflashes.
Um, throughout, you know,despite estrogen levels equaling
and being the same as otherwomen right At the time of
testing, cause it's all erratic.
But despite similar estrogenlevels equaling and being the
same as other women right At thetime of testing, cause, it's
all erratic.
But despite similar estrogenlevels at the time of testing,
women who, uh, you know, saidthat they were in you know more

(13:14):
of a person, but they said theyhad a better HRB, that kind of
thing.
They actually had less, uh,like Bixomotor motor symptoms
than the other groups.
So it's really, really powerful.

Yeah, it always.
All roads seem to lead tostress, no matter who I talk to,
having been in this businessmyself, and there's a lot of
angles to it.
Right, there's a lot of ways toattack the ultimate getting
into that nervous system stateyou want to be in.
Do you watch TV, like, have youseen the new White Lotus?
Do you watch that show at all?
Okay, so in the latest season,um, they go to this meditation
center and there's like a monk,basically I don't know if it's

(13:49):
Tibetan, but this is in Thailand, I think.
And it made me think like if wewere just out of civilization
in general and back to, likehunter gatherers, just living
the life, the stress would be somuch lower.
Right, like that's the root ofall our problems.
Anyway, I think that's not likelet's just get rid of it, all,
right, but you mentioned socortisol, and then there's

(14:10):
insulin, right.
So there's a connection there.
I don't know if you hadmentioned it yet, but maybe we
get into that.
Then I want to ask about HRT,and then, finally, let's get
into lifestyle.
So insulin, yeah.

Yeah, so insulin regulation is a it's really
disrupted.
You become more insulinresistant during perimenopause
simply because of the hormonalshifts estrogen, progesterone,
cortisol that impacts your bloodsugar.
So you know throughout thatthat is definitely one like
really simple shift that womencan make.
I don't know if we're gonna getinto that yet, but that is.

(14:42):
You know, insulin resistanceleads to metabolic disease.
That is part of, you know, thedecline of metabolism in the
system overall, and so that isabsolutely a consideration
during perimenopause that can beaddressed really easily with
nutrition and lifestyle.

Yeah, so you're such a tease Like what is the
super secret sauce to doing it?
And actually, before we do that, is it HRT.

No no.
Um yeah, no, uh, I mean it.
It can potentially help forsure, but yeah, as far as you
know, nutrition, I don't, Idon't want to take your, your
glory, that's on, that's whatyour podcast, but muscle there's
overlap, there's lots ofoverlap.

It's all good Jump into it, you can't just separate
them.
You can't separate them.

First and foremost is muscle Um.
The more muscle you have, umyou know, the less impact all of
that is going to have on thebody.
Um more you know glycogen getsshuttled into the muscles, the
less um insulin sensitivity.
Um.
So, as far as um nutrition goes, managing blood sugar, making
sure that you have balancedmeals, first of all, um making

(15:45):
sure that you know each mealstarts with a fiber fat, um, and
then ideally going to proteinand then your carbohydrates, so,
um that slows down thedigestion and reduces the impact
on blood sugar.

Um, okay, hold on, let's.
Let's break it down for people.
Let's do blood sugar, causethere's there's a lot of
misinformation about blood sugar.
Yeah, a lot of CGM stuff outthere as well, like the, the
glucose monitors, for better orworse.
There it's a tool, uh, and Ijust had actually Christina
McClurkin was just on recently.
You know her from our group aswell, yeah.

Carol (16:15):
Right and blood sugar is like one of her pillars.

There we go.
Yeah, so we all understand thevalue of fiber and stuff, but
you just said um start with afiber.
I think you said fiber and thenfat and then protein and then
vegetable or carbs.
Is that like the sequence ofbuilding your plate you're
thinking, or the sequence of howyou eat with your plate?
What are you referring to?

How you eat.
I mean, you could do it tobuild your plate as well.
Uh, absolutely, but yeah, theorder in which you actually eat
your food.

Good, okay, sequencing, yep, cool.

Yes.

All right, all right, continue.
I just wanted to touch on theblood sugar piece.

Blood sugar.
Okay.
So, yes, the order in which.
And then, of course, makingsure that overall, I mean,
you're not eating a ton ofprocessed sugar, processed
carbohydrates.
That is like, first andforemost, that I tend to skip
that because I'm like that's agiven right, but it's not.
So you know, reducing sugar,reducing added sugars, even if
you have, you know fruits are,generally speaking, okay If you

(17:09):
have, you know, type two,whatever type one, diabetes or
whatever already, then that issomething you want to manage and
make sure that, even you know,with your fruit, maybe everyone
is different and this is thecrazy thing, like there have
been studies to where you knowone person might react to a
sweet potato, you know their,their blood sugar might go
through the roof and anotherperson might be totally fine,

(17:30):
like that, they don't have thatmuch of an impact.
So that is one reason where oneone time, uh, or one reason why
CGMs can actually be reallypowerful, continuous glucose
monitors for those who arefamiliar with that.
But because you know, and it'snot only food that spikes your
blood sugar, uh, stress, right,periods of stress, if cortisol

(17:50):
is being pumped in your system,then you know that can impact
your blood sugar.
And so managing that first andforemost?
Uh, but that is where, like Isaid, if you have access to a
CGM, I really think andespecially through premenopause,
it's just data not to confusethe fact that your blood sugar
should stay in a straight lineall day long.

(18:11):
No, but there may be thingsimpacting your blood sugar that
you don't realize, that do havemore of an effect on you than
even other people.
So that can absolutely be apowerful tool just for
information and making you knowsmall shifts that help support
your body.

But why is it?
Why is blood sugar important?

I mean it's stress on the body is the reality of
it, and the more you know yourbody has to work to produce
insulin, to regulate it.
It's just having to workovertime.

Okay, that's a good one.
I'm glad you said that, becausea lot of people have a
different angle they come towhen they talk about blood sugar
.
For some people, it is theinsulin where I think that's
overplayed if you're lifting, ifyou're living the right
lifestyle, and others say it'sthe energy crashes.
But I think that's because ofthe inconsistency in your
cortisol, which is your stress,and what you're implying is that
, overall, you're saying thatchronic stress can be pushed up

(19:06):
if you have erratic blood sugar.
Is that right?
Yeah, important, important toknow, like, like all the
different things that cause it.
It's the same thing with, like,inconsistent sleep and wake
times and inconsistent eatingpatterns, and so your body wants
to be safe and secure andthat's one way to do it.
Okay.

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
Um, and, like you mentioned,like, yes, energy levels, um,
cravings, for sure you know, forfast energy if your blood sugar
is spiking and then tanking.
So I mean, those are all.
Again, it's a stressor on thebody overall, but uh, impacts
how you feel and how you perform.
And then, uh, going on walks,as far as managing, you know, uh

(19:40):
, blood sugar after meals, um,you know a 10 minute walk, um,
there was also a really recentstudy that came out.
It's, I mean, it's all over,but um, if you it was 10, 10
squats every 45 minutes actuallymanaged blood sugar better than
a 30 minute walk after meals.
Uh, but just that, like, um,you know consistent input of

(20:01):
glucose into the muscles and youknow, utilization of it
throughout the day, um, like Isaid, it just helped manage
blood sugar and I'm sure, asthey went I don't know how long
the study actually was, but I'msure they built muscle and it
improved everything.

Hold on.
So that's cool.
I hadn't heard about that one.
Did they at all compare it toone long training session in the
day?

No, it was compared to walks.

Yeah, cause I was wondering if you know cause.
Again, I always make theanecdotal argument.
I think it's supported byevidence, but that, like a nice
solid training session, hardtraining session in the morning
is great for your stress for thewhole day.
It might have a similar effectof like the micro doses of
movement, just wondering.

Yeah, um, no, there's actually.
So the studies I mean thiswasn't specifically on blood
sugar, but I mean the thestudies on exercise stacks.
There are some studies,especially, uh, based on like
strength, that I've read that,um, you, they actually were able
to improve strength performancebetter by breaking up sessions

(21:02):
because of the recovery piece ofit, right, um, and then
exercise snacks, you know as faras the benefits of it are equal
to, you know, if notpotentially better than one like
long training session, um, so Ithink, I think it, and it makes
sense to me that you know theconsistent, again, utilization
and and input of glucose intothe muscles throughout the day
would be more beneficial thaneven just a single like bout of

(21:27):
exercise.
But that would be aninteresting study.
Maybe someday I'll do that.

It's food for thought.
Look, I mean, at the end of theday, you got to make it work,
so you do something right, likedo one of those things.
But if you're like I could doeither.
Which do I do.
It's nice to know which one's alittle more optimal for some
folks.

Yeah, but I mean one thing we do like with kind
of is like every time you go tothe bathroom like do 10 extra
squats like you, especially for,you know, those who sit at a
desk, like you know, can you seta timer for the hour and just
stand up and do 10 squat, right,it takes 10, maybe 15 seconds,
right, to do 10 squats.
Like who doesn't have time todo that?

Oh yeah, people will say they don't have time
for a lot of things right brook,that they do.
So all right, so continuing onwith like we're.
So ultimately, we're trying tosupport hormones for women in
perimenopause and again peopleare thinking okay, where blood
sugar comes into this because ofthe stress we mentioned before,
the logical chain here ofstress Affecting hormones,
affecting fat storage, theability to lose fat.

(22:21):
I want to make sure that thelistener continues to have that
like what are the cause andeffect of all this and where do
I ultimately have the biggestimpact with my actions, rather
than like getting frustrated andthinking I have to get
treatment or supplements orsomething like that.

Yeah, uh, like I said.
So biggest thing, like simpleshifts with nutrition, that
would be, you know, making sure,like I said, you're getting
enough protein, you're gettingenough high quality, nutrient
dense food, enough fiber right,25 to 35 grams per day of fiber,
and then, in the order that youeat your meals, fiber, fat,

(22:56):
protein, carbs and and then youknow again if you strength
training, of course, strengthtraining two to three times a
week, uh, making sure you havethat muscle if you can do walks
and your squats throughout theday.
I mean those are some of themost impactful things you can do
.

as far as blood sugar is concerned, so maybe the
other angle on this is what notto do, because I'll tell you
and you, I'm sure, a hundredpercent agree with what you hear
online all the time fasting,low carb.
What are the other?

ones Like we could just knock them down right now.
Let's go.
Okay, okay, uh, so fasting, um,I actually also have a whole
podcast on this.

Um, but do you know what number it is, what episode
, or is it recent?

If we.

If we connect, we could drop it in later.

Okay, okay, yeah, uh, it's, it was semi-recent, um
, if they, you know, if theyscroll through there, find it, I
only have 40 episodes, so it'snot like it'd be awesome.

I'm sure they're.
They're super high quality.
40 episodes so good.
That's easy.
People can binge the wholething yeah.

Um, but so fasting ?
Um, there are.
There are a ton of benefits tofasting, actually.
Uh, most people, especiallywomen, are doing it wrong.
The reality of it is that, youknow, not eating under
nourishing, um, that is astressor, and most women are
already not eating enough, andso you cut off, you know, you
give yourself a six hour timewindow to shove 2000 calories in

(24:16):
, like I mean I love to eat, butlike that's going to be hard
for even me, Um and so, and thenmost women, you know, aren't
getting, like I said, enough asit is and so.
But you know, within that thenwe have cortisol and that is
again a blood sugar regulator.
So if you wake up in themorning, you, when your cortisol
should be right, the highest,that's normal, we want it to be

(24:39):
high, that's what wakes you upand it helps stabilize your
blood sugar through the nightbecause we're not eating
overnight.
So in the morning, right, it's.
Waking up, it's high.
If you continue to not eatright, instead of breaking that
fast and allowing you know thefood that you're eating to then
stabilize your blood sugar, yourcortisol will continue to
remain elevated.

(24:59):
So that's problem number one andmost women, they're not cutting
off their eating window atnight, because that is the most
difficult for most people, butthey, so they take it off the
morning and so when they'redoing fasting, they're not
eating until you know 12, oneo'clock, on top of which they're
usually, you know, havingcoffee, which also caffeine can
be a major stressor can increaseyour cortisol, which and I and

(25:22):
I have to like just clarify thisbecause cortisol, there's
nothing wrong inherently withcortisol.
We need it, right.
It is a natural hormone thathas plays a role in, you know,
every function of our body, butespecially in perimenopause, it
can actually really impact fatloss efforts and you know the

(25:43):
way that your body continues toproduce hormones.
So, because too much cortisolwill actually take the energy
from other sex hormones, and soyou know that you'll see, not
not influencers, but like a lotof people being like cortisol
doesn't matter.
Like you know, people arepushing it too much and it's

(26:04):
like, okay, there's a, there's aline, like I don't want you to
just stress over cortisol, butyou have to know that there are
physiological, like implicationsto these actions that you're
taking, um, and they can impactyour fat loss efforts.

So many, many rant there, um no, no it, it makes
sense, especially when you'relike it's an indicator, it's
biomarker, biofeedback, ofwhat's going on.
It's not that you want to goout and get a cortisol blocking
supplement and just put a patchon this downstream thing.
You want to lift and eat foryour blood sugar and balance
your food and don't fast at thewrong time, et cetera.

(26:37):
Yeah, okay, totally, totally.

So so, yeah, that's your food, and don't fast
at the wrong time, et cetera.
Yeah, okay, totally, totally so.
So, yeah, that's, um, those are, I mean, two of the major like
issues with fasting is they'rethey're not getting enough food,
um, because it's really hard toeat in that window.
And then that extended morning,you know, fast is does impact
blood sugar, cortisol, et cetera, um, and then if they're not
planning, you know what they'regoing to eat, if it's not

(26:59):
quality, right, they're not onlyundernourishing, they're not
getting a protein, which causesmuscle loss, they are, you know,
not getting enough fiber, whichcauses, you know, backup and
detox and bowel movements, andthen you know, so that's, those
are the major issues with it.
But, honestly, having a havingan eating window and stopping

(27:20):
eating, like six, you know,seven, maybe even at the latest,
I think, honestly for everybody, not just perimenopausal women,
but there's a reason that youknow we have this overnight, uh,
fast, and it gives your body achance to actually regenerate,
right, fasting it does actuallyhave a lot of benefits, but it
has to be done in the right way,for pregnant and postulant

(27:42):
women specifically, I meaneverybody.

Carol (27:46):
Before I started working with Philip, I had been trying
to lose weight and was reallystruggling with consistency, but
from the very beginning, philiptook the time to listen to me
and understand my goals.
He taught me the importance offueling my body with the right
foods to optimize my training inthe gym, and I lost 20 pounds.
More importantly, I gainedself-confidence.

(28:09):
What sets Philip apart is thepersonal connection.
He supported and encouraged meevery step of the way.
So if you're looking for acoach who cares about your
journey as much as you do, Ihighly recommend Philip Pape.

No, that makes sense.
That's a great approach, right?
Like we're not trying to blackand white everything here and
say there's you know, only oneway.
There's the way to do it.
And, as everybody's fasting,when they sleep, right, they're
fasting.
So now it's a matter of likeokay, at the end of the day,
listen to your body.
How's your food impacting yoursleep and your biometrics?
If you shifted your time window, would you be more consistent

(28:47):
with it?
Could you align it with yourenergy during the day, like all
the things?
Right, yeah, so how does?
Where do carbs come into thisas well, cause recently I've
been digging in.
Did I come out with the episode?
Yet?
I don't know.
There might be one coming outabout the connection between
carbs and cortisol, which Ithink is pretty cool.

Yeah, yeah, I mean carbs help manage cortisol
output is the reality of it, andthat is one reason why low carb
diets one reason are an issue.
The other side of that, thereare actually some studies that
short-term, especially forperimenopausal women, short-term
lower carb, higher fat diets,um do actually help, you know,
stabilize blood sugar, decreasestress in the body, help with
hormone production, especiallyfrom women who, like this is

(29:31):
it's like a generational thing.
So, like the generation beforeme, they were like low fat right
, eating the low fat dairy lowfat milk, that kind of thing.
And then my generation, I feellike, is low carb.
We're like, all right, we'regoing to do keto or low carb.
So it kind of depends on like,and some people are kind of in
the middle of that.
So I get, I get, you know,different one coming to me but

(29:54):
but the, you know, gettingenough quality fats most
importantly, which is we're noton keto yet.
But that is the biggest, uh,you know, issue, and because
hormones are made with Bvitamins and cholesterol and so
without that fat, that thosequality fats, um, you're going
to struggle to make hormones andso, and then carbohydrates, I

(30:14):
mean carbs, are body's main andpreferred source of energy, is
the reality of it.
Um, they also have a ton offiber.
So, you know, we're not justlooking at cortisol in terms of
regulation, but, um,detoxification, you know,
digestion, the fiber in foodsfeed our gut microbiome, which
is a whole nother aspect ofperimenopause that, uh, you know
, comes into play, and so carbsare a necessary part of life and

(30:40):
so carbs are a necessary partof life.

Yeah, I agree.
And you didn't even have to,like, make the case for all the
other benefits for performanceand energy and recovery.
Now, just saying that, thatalone I've seen it.
I'm sure you've seen it.
Women come to you havingundernourished but also eating
too few carbs, and just addingcarbs can all of a sudden unlock
a whole bunch of vitality.
You know, it's like whoa, Ihave energy.

I have my hormones , you know, whatever.
So, before we wrap up, yeah, goahead and fat loss, yes, yes, I
know we're over time, but, um,that is one of the biggest
things.
Like you know, people come tous, they're eating low carb, low
calorie I mean, I've literallydoubled some women's calories,
and you know and they loseweight and they're like what is
that?
It's like this is what happenswhen you nourish your body,
right it?
Because then it comes back tothe nervous system, I think

(31:28):
largely.
You know you're in thatfight-or-flight state when
you're starving, basically, andso your body's like no, we're
hanging on to.
You know, everything we gotright now.
And you know, yes, like when itcomes to starvation, right, if
you are vastly under eating fora long period of time, yeah,
you're just, I mean, you'regonna lose weight and waste away

(31:49):
to nothing.
But that's not usually whathappens.
People, you know, eat low carb,low calorie all week, and then
they have one day that they eata ton, to try, you know, because
their bodies are trying to makeup for it all, and so they're
not actually like starving, butthey would be if they ate how
they do during the week, likeall the time.
So, yeah, it's a.
It's an interesting phenomenonto witness.

(32:11):
Yeah, I think.

I think you hit on some of the really big points
today, like, just to recap right, we came into this with the
premise why are women strugglingto lose fat, or why are they
gaining more fat duringperimenopause?
And what I heard from you is itis the hormones, but it's not
necessarily the hormones, inthat what you're doing about it
supports your hormones and it'snot like you're trying to just

(32:34):
therapy your way out of it.
Right, you supplement your wayout of it and it's really so.
It's both.
It's all of it together, andyou have to understand the
change in physiology and thatyou can't act like you were in
your twenties, that you've gotto eat enough food and nutrients
, enough fiber.
You have to have balance.
You have to think about yourblood sugar.
It sounds like a lot, but atthe end of the day I think you
hinted multiple times eating avariety of whole foods,

(32:54):
nutritious foods and like notunder eating is a great start.
It's a great start and just tokind of segue into ending this
episode and then teasing intothe other conversation we're
having how do cardio and liftingthen play into this?
Because it's not just aboutnutrition, right?

Absolutely yeah.
So I mean, I mentioned muscle.
That is a huge supporter of notonly blood sugar but of bone
health, of longevity, quality oflife, which, you know, people
in their 20s aren't usually tooworried about.
But I feel like once you getinto your 30s and 40s, you it's
at least in the back of yourhead being like, okay, you know,
I don't want to be in awheelchair or have to be in a

(33:30):
walker or have somebody elsetaking care of me when I'm, you
know, 60, 70 years old.
So you know, strength trainingat least two to three times a
week, um, you know, 30 minutesessions and we want to lift
heavy.
This is, this is I'm going toput heavy in quotes heavy, heavy
for you.
Um, people hear heavy and theyget really intimidated.
Uh, women, women here.

I have quotes too.

I have a pair of quotes in my pocket too for
heavy, just like you do.
Okay, yeah, um, but you know,this is uh studies were done on
strength training and um is uhstudies were done on strength
training and um, you know, 75%of your warm rep max, for you
know, four to six reps is goingto be kind of the optimal range
for uh, building muscle but alsoreducing um, or reducing

(34:13):
inflammation, um, basically,longevity markers.
There was a bunch of longevitymarkers tested with these uh
ranges and those were the onesthat improved the stats the most
essentially.
And so, um, uh, so, strengthtraining in that capacity, um,
plyometrics, those are all goingto impact bone density, which
vastly decreases as estrogendeclines.

(34:34):
Um, you know, after age 30 forwomen, um, and that is.
And then, speaking of, you know, quality of life, right, you
break a hip after age 65, you,the 30% of people, die within a
year.
60% die within five years, likeit's, it's gnarly.
So those are really powerfultools and really important tools
for again maintaining not justfat loss and metabolism, that

(34:57):
kind of stuff, but also qualityof life as you age.
And then cardio, cardio gets,I'm going to say, really
bastardized but, and so youabsolutely need it.
You need it for heart health.
High intensity exercise, even,is great for even women in
perimenopause.
But we do have to manage itright.
You can't go to boot camp sixdays a week, you know, for an

(35:19):
hour long high intensity classand think that your body is
going to be stoked about it.
Um, not only are your jointsprobably not going to love it,
um, but also, if that's a majorstressor, um, you're probably
not eating enough to supportthat kind of activity as it is.
So, um, you know, usually Irecommend, um and I mean science
recommends you know to to atmost usually true high intensity

(35:43):
, and that's the other thing isthat an hour long class is not
true High intensity workshouldn't last usually more than
15, 20 minutes, yeah, if you're, if you're pushing like you're
not lasting more than you know15, 20 minutes doing something
like that.
And then uh, zone two is anotherreally powerful heart health,
cardiovascular supporting way tosupport your overall fat loss

(36:06):
and just longevity throughperimenopause.

Love it, love it.
And if you're listening andyou're like, okay, I'm
struggling, I'm frustrated, Ican't lose weight, even though
we're ultimately talking aboutfat loss, even though we're
ultimately talking about fatloss, setting things up the way
Brooke talked about today,without stressing yourself with
another diet, is a great start,before you then say, okay, now
I've got things dialed in, nowlet me go for some little more
aggressive, say fat loss.

(36:30):
At that point you know there'san order of things we want to do
.
So, all right, if you like whatyou heard in this episode,
everyone, um, you're going towant to listen to the second
half of this.
We kind of hinted and teased atit.
Brooke interviews me on FitnessSimplified podcast.
It's in your feed right now.
Same time, different podcast,of course, fitness Simplified.
We're going to talk aboutmuscle metabolism.
She explained the hormonesreally well here, the lifestyle,

(36:52):
the nutrition side.
So we're going to talk aboutbody composition, muscle
metabolism.
Search for Fitness Simplifiedpodcast or click the link in the
show notes.
Brooke, it has been a lot offun.
It's been a pleasure to haveyou on.
Thanks for joining me again yes, thank you.

Thank you, this is awesome, great combo.

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Why Perimenopause Fat Loss Feels Harder After 40 (Brooke Davis) | Ep 323

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Why Perimenopause Fat Loss Feels Harder After 40 (Brooke Davis) | Ep 323