Ep 47: Finding Your TRUE Purpose in Fitness and Life with Carl Berryman

Episode Transcript
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Philip Pape (00:08):
Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast, where we
discuss getting strong andhealthy with strength training
and sustainable nutrition. I'myour host, Philip pape, and in
each episode, we examinestrategies to help you achieve
physical self mastery through ahealthy skepticism of the
fitness industry, and acommitment to consistent
nutrition and training forsustainable results.

(00:31):
Welcome to another episode ofWits & Weights. This one is for
all the guys listening to theshow because I am joined by Carl
Berryman, for a conversationabout being a man from fitness
to communication to expressingyour feelings and everything in
between my guests, Carl is apersonal trainer turned men's
movement advocate. Carl's a manwho had his world crumbled

(00:52):
around him, was able to footback to pieces and simply wants
to share his strategies forsuccess. So other men don't have
to suffer the same fate. He did.
Carl, man, thank you for comingon the show. Thank you so much,
Philip. I'm really lookingforward to this after hearing
some of your podcasts already.
So this is gonna be it'll begreat. And I appreciate that
that you're listening to. We'vebeen going back and forth before

(01:13):
the show. And I'm excited fortoday because we're going to
cover some new ground for us.
I've had a lot of women come onand talk about women's issues.
And now we're going to dive intothe other side of the equation
which is relevant to me and alot of listeners. Let's just
start with your story. You know,you were a personal trainer,
you're now a men's movementadvocate. So who is Carl
Berryman? And what is yourmission? What's your purpose in

(01:33):
life?

Carl Berryman (01:37):
Okay, well really, really simply the
longest story short possible.
what my purpose is, is the waythat I phrase it in my head is
to inspire the dreams ofhumanity through the living my
own and help other men or peoplearound the world ignite the
impact they wish to see in theirworld. Really simple. And so to
put it really, really short in2020 was December 4 2020.

(01:57):
Actually, I had a really harshwake up call in terms of how
much my life was so far fromwhere I wanted to be. And what
spawned that was I got up and Idecided I was going to get a
jump on the New Year'sresolution. Keep in mind, I've
been a personal trainer for it'scoming up 12 years now. So I
wasn't in horrible shape, but Iwasn't how I want it to be like

(02:21):
there was still some room forimprovement.
So I got up December 4 2020 tooka glamour shot in the mirror
with my shirt off. And I didn'trealize like I went to put it in
a folder in my phone. And Ididn't realize I'd taken a shot
the exact same day the yearbefore. But I hadn't taken a
picture in between. And thepictures looked exactly the

(02:43):
same. I was like, wow, I went anentire year thinking I was
crushing my nutrition and myfitness and gone nowhere. So
that was really humbling. And Idon't know why. But a voice
inside me asked me, Carl, ifyou've been deluding yourself
with regards to your fitness,where else are you deluding

(03:03):
yourself. And I found out it waseverywhere. And inside of my
romantic relationship with mypartner, Jenny Lee, we become
roommates instead of partnerswere Yeah, we were good friends
and everything. And there was noanimosity, but there was no
passion, there was noexcitement, like intimacy was
few and far between, and battledwith depression really, really
hard to the point where therewere many, many mornings where I

(03:24):
just couldn't get myself out ofbed in the morning to the point
where if I had clients, I wouldtext them that my dog was sick
or something like this. Soashamed of how depressed I felt,
even though I was living mypurpose because I had quit my
job four years prior to pursuemy purpose of personal training.
And it was a hardcore wake upcall. And at that point, I

(03:49):
decided, okay, I really first ofall need to get my body in
check. So I did some very simpleshifts and ended up having a
radical transformation in a veryshort period of time. And then
at the end of that I asked,okay, well, if I could do it
with my body, can I do it withmy relationships? Can I do it
with my mental and emotionalhealth? And can I do it with my

(04:09):
sense of purpose? So all I didwas I took the strategies and
the principles that workedinside the gym, applying them
outside the gym, and boom,transformation. And it was, it
was pretty cool. All right,yeah. And I love that we're
gonna get into all that. And Iwant to just address one thing
you mentioned there a lot ofpeople talk about if they went a
year, right, and they took aphoto of themselves a year

(04:30):
later, I imagine most peoplewould say, okay, maybe I've
gotten heavier, I've gottenbigger and I kind of know that I
was doing stuff that maybe ledto that right. And you had this
maybe different perspective ofthinking you were doing all the
right things and then didn'tchange at all. And so before we
get into the all the not in thegym, just real quickly in the
gym. I'm just curious, what arethe secrets that you discovered

(04:52):
that that small changes that youmade for that transformation?
Well, the big one, the biggestmistake was staring me right in
the face andThat for me, there's, in order
to make any transformation thatgoes for in the gym and outside
the gym, there's four keycomponents that I found work for
me. And it's measure, measure,manage, test and track. So what
am I measuring? Like,specifically, what do I want to
measure and I, I don't useweights, I imagine maybe during

(05:16):
this conversation or if youwould be so kind to come on my
podcast, we're going to talkabout the whole weight loss
thing. I'm those are dirty wordsfor me, but I get it. But
anyway, so I don't focus onweight, I wanted to focus on
putting on muscle and my theamount of definition which to me
made sense to literally trackthe amount of pounds I had that

(05:38):
were muscle, and the definitionthat I saw when I looked in the
mirror. So I just startedtracking that stuff on a weekly
basis taking the glamour shot,so I could see if I was making
changes. So that was asmeasuring and then managing was
probably the most important partfor me managing is all about,
okay, I know what mistakes I'mgonna make in advance. I know
the excuses I have for not goingto the gym, I know the excuses I

(06:00):
have for having pizza, insteadof making a home cooked meal
instead of going and stopping atthe drive thru instead of
waiting till I get home to havethe food that I've spent hours
prepping. And now I'm gonna haveto throw out because I have no
self discipline to not stop atthe drive that I know those
excuses. So how can I managethem in advance? And this is
something you talked about inyour episode number 30 With

(06:21):
regards to moving into theintellect, part of forming
habits, right? So that's what Idid that was the most important
part was figuring out what arethe mistakes that I make the
most often? And how can I makethose mistakes hard to make? And
that changed everything? So IAlright, love it, ya know, a
couple of couple things youtouched on too. I would like to
get detail on those if we could.

(06:43):
But like you said, we can doanother podcast about like body
composition and weight andstuff. But I'm curious when you
say you measured the amount ofmuscle being gained. So to me if
I did that, it would be eithertrying to estimate my lean mass
based on body fat, or usingsomething like circumference
measurements combined withperformance and maybe photos. I
mean, what what of those did youactually use?

(07:05):
For muscle mass, specifically, Ihave a scale called the renforth
scale. And that tracks all thestuff right. But what I did, the
day before I got the Renfrowscale is I went somewhere here
in Winnipeg called body measure.
And I did a DEXA scan DEXA DEXAscan is the gold standard for
knowing what's going on insideyour body. So after I got my
DEXA scan results, I comparedthose to the Renfrow to see how

(07:28):
accurate was and they werepretty bang on like it was the
difference was negligible. Sotherefore I just started using
the Renfrow scale to track theamount of lean muscle and body
fat and everything that I had.
So yeah, cool. Yeah. In the wayI say it is like even if the
number, the absolute number isnot precise for you, it's going

(07:48):
to change predictably, like, youknow if it goes up 3% or down 3%
pretty much changed by thatamount for you. That's exactly,
yeah, that's Yeah, as long asyou have that reference point.
That's why whenever I hadclients were like, should I use
a scale at home? Or should I usethe scale of the gym? I said,
Oh, no care. Just use the sameone. All the same one. Same
condition. Same one. Yeah. Allright. So in your I want to get

(08:10):
into the morning muscle, I wantto understand what this is all
about. I did listen to yourshow. In the episode why most
men fail, most men fail beingthe man. And this is for people
listening to the inspired by theimpact podcast that that you run
that you have. You introducedthe concept of the morning
muscle up. So what is that? Sothe morning muscle up has now

(08:31):
been switched to the mentalmuscle

because you can edit that out.

I say the morning because for me, I if I want to
make sure I 100% get somethingdone. It has to get done in the
morning. Otherwise, willpower,which is an exhaustible resource
runs out and then I find excusesand it doesn't get done.
However, one of my best friendsJeff, who is a new father is son
Nixon's like three months old.
He's like, Carl, I barely getany sleep. I can't do this in

(08:59):
the morning. Is it? Okay, if Ido this when Nixon goes to bed
at night? As long as I'm doingthe things in the next 24 hours?
And yeah, absolutely. It's like,then you should change it to the
mental muscle up. I'm like,Alright, so I'll do that. Well,
none of it makes sense. Themental muscle up really was what
it is, is it's a cure forsomething that I was struggling
with hardcore pretty much myentire adult life in that I've

(09:23):
been a self help and personaldevelopment junkie for the last
I'm 43. Now, since I was 19years old. And I found that no
matter how many books I readpodcasts, I listened to courses,
I took all that jazz. I wasn'tseeing the change that I wanted
to make. But then when I took areal look in the mirror, it's
like Carl, you're consuming alot of content, but you're not

(09:44):
really doing anything with it.
You're getting motivated andyou're getting ideas but either
a those ideas are never gettingstarted or be you're never
following through on some likeokay, well how do I stop this?
So what I did was a couple ofyears.
ago I started a journalingprocess where I would just ask
myself for questions forquestions like, say, if I'm

(10:05):
listening to one year podcasts,and I did it. What's the fourth
on Wednesday, I've got actuallycreated my own journal magnate,
the impact journal. And so theother day, I took something from
your podcast and ran it throughhere, because I was inspired by
something that was shared inyour podcast, and I didn't not
want to take action on. So Ihave what's in here called the

(10:27):
notable, quotable. So it'susually just a quote that you
get from a book or a podcast andyou guys talked about the
extinction protocol. And I lovedthat. I love that that resonated
with me big time. I'm like,Okay, well, what can I do to
implement this in the next 24hours? So question, one inside
of the mental muscle up is whatyour situation? In other words,

(10:47):
you're defining the problem thatyou have. And you're phrasing in
the form of a question so thatat the end of this, you can come
up with an answer to thatquestion. And so really long
story short on this one, what Icame up with was, over the
holidays, I told myself that Iwas going to not be so adherent
to my nutrition plan.
And I went completely off therails, completely off the rails.

(11:10):
And it was, it's not awesome,and it's not who I know I am.
And it's not who I want to be.
And I made excuses. And I fellfor those excuses. I told him, I
rationalized it like crazy. Andsure enough, two weeks a
holidays, the next glamour shotdoes not look how I wanted to
look. And I didn't want to letthat happen, because I could
have managed it better. Sotaking your extinction protocol
into play. What I did was,rather than looking at the foods

(11:36):
I wanted to extinct, I looked atthe excuses that I wanted to
extinct. And for me, it wassocial gatherings. That was my
number one common error as towhy I did like I deterred from
or I diverted from how Inormally eat. So now I've
identified myself just like itgets in that podcast where he

(11:58):
says, I'm just someone whodoesn't eat chocolate, I am now
someone who doesn't eat fastfood, I just don't, because I'll
cook whatever it is that I couldget it to fast food, it'll be
way healthier, and probablytastes better. So now I am
somebody who doesn't eat fastfood. And so that's what I got
from your podcast, making surethat you take it just run it
through this stuff, there's acouple more questions in there
to get a little bit moredetailed and a little bit more

(12:19):
of your emotions out. But longstory short, it's taking
something that you hear thatreally resonates with you and
making sure that you can takeaction on in the next 24 hours.

That's great.
Because there's so it's sofleeting, we think we think our
minds are going to rememberthings right? You hear something
that's just burst in your brain,you could be driving in the car,
listen to podcast, and you justkeep going right? You just keep
going. And then like five morethings come in, and that first
thing is long gone. But then,but then at the same time, I
think if I take the time towrite this down, then I'm gonna

(12:50):
have 1000 things that I wrote,is that is that going to help me
either, you know? So how do youdeal with that, like not not
letting that be overwhelming andreally picking and choosing the
things that are most helpful toyou?

That's a really good question. And so I'm all
about taking analogies from thegym, right? So say, for example,
this morning, I go in and I, I'mtraining with the clients, and I
train with my clients now mostof the time. Excuse me. And so I
go in there, and I know whatwe're going to be doing for our
workout. But imagine if I wentin there, and it's like, oh,
that piece of equipment isgreat. Oh, yeah, that one's

(13:24):
great. Well, those kettlebellsare great. Oh, yeah, that
barbell is great. Oh, yeah, thethe assault bike, and all that
stuff. And I just start tryingto design a workout based on
that like, no, Carl, what musclegroups are you're focusing on
today? And what type of styletraining are you going on? So
there was two exercises? Thatwas it. And we use kettlebells?
For both? That was it supersimple. So going into a podcast

(13:44):
when I'm listening, what I usedto do is I would take a
screenshot of the time whensomething hits me. But I noticed
in an hour long podcast, I wouldhave about 45 screenshots. So
what I'm telling myself now as Iget my I'm allowed to come up
with four. That's it. Four. Soif ever I want to take a
timestamp, I got to I got tothink to myself, Okay, is this

(14:07):
one worthy of the four? Or is itbetter than the previous one?
Because now you're gonna have toerase something as soon as that
gets a four. That's it? Becauselike you, I would have all these
things written down. And it'slike, no, why. It's just like
Meals what like going to arestaurant where there's so many
things on the menu, it makes itimpossible to choose, the

(14:28):
shorter the shorter the menu orthe smaller it is, the easier it
is to achieve. So same thingwith those aha moments.

Yeah, that's great advice for people listening. I
mean, it's all about planningand managing this stuff. And you
had it you had a question forhow to do that now. Now I'm
going to think twice about ittoo because I actually listen to
a lot of my podcasts whileworking out and and I also ended
up giving myself my 20 item todo lists while working out and
there's a correlation there. Youknow what I mean? The because i

(14:55):
The ideas come to my mind. Oh,this this is a great thing. This
guy said or this reminds me Ineed do you do this or I need to
do this in my business? And it'slike, yeah, boom, boom, boom,
boom. So what you're sayingabout kind of also going in with
a plan of limiting how manythings you're gonna come out
with is helpful to avoid theoverwhelm.

Yeah, the other one that's helped me as well,
too. This one can backfiresometimes, but I heard one time
in terms of writing a wholebunch of stuff done down the
good stuff sticks. So when youhear something, it's like, oh,
yeah, cuz there are some thingswhere I'm like, that was
massive. And then it's like,yeah, there's no way I'm gonna
forget that. I'm just, I'm justnot going to like it as much as

(15:34):
I like I did snapshot when I waslistening to your podcasts about
the extinction protocol. But I'mlike, I knew that there's no way
I'm gonna forget that. I'm justYeah,

man, people listening to this. By the time
we're done, I hope to have like,30 things they want to take
away. I'm gonna have to really.
So just one. Yeah. Yeah. And upwith just one. Yes, yes, yes. So
let's keep going and producesome of these, these these
massive hits for people. Allright. I want to get into some
of your unique things related tomen specifically, and see where
we take that right. So a littlebit more sober here with the

(16:05):
statistics, some of theAutistics you shared with me,
that seem highly unique to men,one of those that enlighten me a
bit is that men make up 80% ofsuicide, right? Yes. Why is
that?

I can't say for anybody else. But I had one
occasion where I seriouslythought about it I. And it was
it was it was very fleeting. AndI didn't do anything crazy.
Nothing manifested from it,thank God. But there was one
moment where I seriously justthought that you know what, I

(16:41):
wouldn't be better off notalive. That's how I thought back
in 2020. And I think the reasonsthat it happened for me will be
very, will be pretty universalamong men. And it's because
while there are multiplereasons, number one was I was
hiding everything I was feelinglike other than my partner,

(17:02):
Jenny Lee, who even you she knewa little bit, but she didn't
know that depth of the darkness.
I was feeling anytime anybodyasked me how I'm doing was, oh,
yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine. And Iwouldn't talk about it. And it's
just, I would, the way that Inumb, my pain is through binging
on Netflix, like I'll just sitthere. And just like, it wasn't
all that long ago, this stillcomes up every once in a while

(17:23):
where I was on the couch forlike 14 and a half hours, the
only time I got up was to getsome food, take the dogs for a
walk or go to the bathroom. AndI'm just binging because I just
did not want to deal with whatwas going on in my head. And
inside of me. And you do thatfor enough time, it's no
different. Think about lookingat looking in the emotional
mirror or stepping on theemotional scale. If you avoid,

(17:44):
like I've got I'm sure you'vehad lots of clients to who when
they know they've had a bad weekor something like that they
don't step on the scale, becausethey're afraid of what the
numbers gonna say. Now imaginedoing that for decades
emotionally, how much things aregoing to build up without you
realizing it and never lookingin the mirror and not having any
indicators for where your mentaland emotional health is at. And

(18:05):
that was me. And I didn'trealize because after the fact
that I realized the one thingthat changed the game for me
with regards to my mentalemotional health was the
connection I had with other men.
Because I joined several men'scoaching programs where
vulnerability was the name ofthe game, where you hear men
sharing things about theiraddictions, their relationships,

(18:28):
their bodies, and everythinglike that. And you're realizing
holy cow, maybe I'm not the onlyone out here that suffering like
this. And if there's one thingthat really learned, it's that
we just don't want to feel likewe're alone. Because you look on
the surface, especially withsocial media the way it is, it
seems like everybody is living aperfect life, when it couldn't
be further from the truth. Likepeople, people might look at you

(18:50):
and I people who are really intofitness and I don't know about
you, but getting to the gym isstill like it's tough for me.
And like I know for I know for afact that Yeah, after the
workout, I'm gonna feel amazing.
But there are a lot of timeswhere it like I work out pretty
early and I'm up at 405 is whenmy alarm goes off. And there's
there's times where it's likeno, I would love to sleep in
right now. Especially inWinnipeg. It's freezing right

(19:12):
now. It'd be nice, even. ButI've got to get there. And it's
nice to know that I'm not theonly one who struggles with
that. And once you startrealizing that you're not the
only one, and that other men aresuffering the same way all the
sudden some of that pain goesaway. And my favorite one of my
favorite quotes that I got fromone of the coaches inside that
program coach Sam filosofi, hesaid pain shared his pain

(19:35):
divided and success share tosuccess multiplied. So that's
kind of the mantra behindeverything I'm doing right now,
hoping to expose myself as muchas possible so that people can
realize, holy cow. I'm not theonly one who struggles with
this. And not only that, but ifthere's some potential solutions
that worked for Carl to get himto where he is. Maybe I can try

(19:56):
those on and see if they fit forme they might but not but they
but they might. So yeah, I don'tknow if I had

to Yeah, no, no, it did, you gave me a lot to think
about and thank you for, forsharing your, the personal
struggle, you went through a fewthings like, again, Bursting My
Brain, from you saying that whenI think of talking to my men,
male clients, right, so, sofemale clients seem to like
really have the language down ingeneral. Because this stuff, you
know, and even better than I do,and I'm the coach, but my male

(20:28):
clients, I do sometimes feellike, I'm the only person
they've opened up to about someof this stuff and acting sort of
as that support in their life.
And just yesterday, I had aconversation with a client, we
had, you know, very successful,long phase together, and he's
ready to move on, because he's,he knows what he's doing. He's
confident now he's gonna fireme, and that's how it goes. And
it's okay, that's what I want.

(20:50):
But he, he said, you know, partof why I was accountable,
because it's because you gotexcited when I got excited. And
you mentioned something about,like, our successes together as
well. Every time you gave mefeedback, and you're like, you
know, look at your metabolismgoing. And I got excited. And
then that kept me going. And Ifeel like some men maybe don't
even have anybody else. Thereeven their own spouses they may
not share that with so yeah,that's that's, that's an

(21:13):
interesting thought, Carl, soyou mentioned techniques or
things what what's somethingthat comes to mind? For someone
who doesn't have that right now?

Well, first and foremost, I just want to back up
and talk a little bit about whatyou just said there because it's
not to be skipped over. And itis, it is wonderful, because I
mentioned how my connection withother men in my life is
literally what saved my life.
Having those connections, it'scritical now where you go
through those connections. Andit's interesting, because a lot
of the guys that I I'm veryfortunate now where I have about

(21:42):
five or six other men that I canhave very, very vulnerable
conversations with likeconversations where when we
leave, it's always I love you,brother. And it's like that. And
my saying you have to open upand let the waterworks come out?
No, absolutely. It's just likein the gym, where if you go in
the gym, let's say if your manright now, and you're you're not
even aware of what your emotionsare, because you don't have any

(22:05):
words for him. Becausestatistically speaking, women
have a lot larger the languagedatabase for emotions than we
do. So they therefore they canidentify and express them
better. But if you're going tothe gym, you're not going to
look at what somebody who islike been doing it for years do
and put the same amount ofweight on the bar, if you're
doing dads, whatever and go inthere and try to lift that

(22:26):
weight, no, you're going to dosomething that is a nice small
start for you. So where Irecommend starting, if you want
to learn how to express youremotions better with other
people, the first person tostart with is yourself. And
that's what journaling has donefor me so much like just getting
just trying to get what's goingon for me out onto paper,
because then it's not occupyingso much space up there. And in

(22:48):
here, at least it's on paper. SoI started there. And once my
language started to get better,and I gained more confidence of
expressing myself to myself,then I started sharing that with
other men. And as soon as youstart sharing with other men,
the one thing I'm hearing moreand more with every single man
I'm connecting with now, mostlythrough like podcasts that had

(23:09):
been on. As soon as therecording goes off, we'll have a
conversation that way, Carl, Ithis is amazing, because I can't
talk like this with other men.
And really now that I thinkabout it, that is the challenge.
And the problem I am trying tosolve with my podcast and with
the journal is I want to bringmen together into a space where

(23:30):
that becomes the norm. And it'sjust like in the gym. Like one
of the analogies I use in thegym all the time now is level
123123 Like one come in, take itnice and easy. There's nothing
wrong with that. Maybe it's abad day, maybe you have an
injury, maybe you're just tired,I don't know, level two, dial it
up and you can dial back whenyou need YOU GO GO GO GO GO and
you're like, Okay, I overdidthat step back form starting to

(23:53):
go step back. Level three islike today is the day I'm
feeling great. All cylinders arefiring I'm going to give it so
same thing with communicatingbetween men. If you're the type
of man who doesn't really knowhow to express your feelings yet
just coming in watch coming inhere, our the men are doing it.
And then after that, dial it up,maybe you can connect with with
one or two or whatever. And thenfinally start leading the group

(24:15):
through your experience. So thatwould be the first things
dialing that way back. Startgetting stuff out on paper with
yourself. Nobody else needs toread it. Nobody else will ever
see it. You never need to readit again. Just see if you can
start saying stuff on paper. Andespecially stuff you would never
say to somebody's face. Likegenuinely my partner she knows.

(24:36):
I write some stuff down abouther that if I said it out loud,
we wouldn't be together. I writeit down on paper because it
needs to get out as soon as it'sout. Not only that, but I can
see how ridiculous it is. Nowthat resentment that was
building up inside of me. It'son the paper. It's not going to
come time when she comes homefrom work and I'm supposed to

(24:59):
give her a hug and a kiss It'san Ask her how her day was where
I have that thing lingering inmy mind. And I'll just, she'll
come home and be like, what'swrong with you? Because that
used to happen. It used tohappen, it's probably started
doing this.

That's a good one.
I mean, it's really good becauseI was just thinking, my own
relationship with my wife, whichis, I think, very healthy. And
she she does her best to get meto talk as much as I can. But I
see that why golf? You know,because to me, she's like Deanna
Troi, from Star Trek, she's likean empath. You know, everything
is just there out in the open toher. And for me, it's like, you
know, there's always that wall,right? It's just weird how the

(25:33):
genetics work. I also saw, Idon't know what it was that I
was watching. Maybe six monthsago, they were talking about how
we men also tend to use humor aslike a defensive mechanism.
That's like the word romance.
You know, it's kind of us sayinglike, it's not that important.
It's just this, bro. You knowwhat I mean? Like, we're like
making light of it. Yeah. Yeah.
Cool. All right. So anotheranother statistic, which I man

(25:54):
is related to this, and somehowis that 70% of divorces are
initiated by women. So yes. Isthat related to this? Would you
say, the communication gap orsomething else? Absolutely. I

just think a lot of times women aren't getting
what they signed up for in themarriage, right. And I think
what happens there, I'm from myexperience, because I was
married and divorced. And thenJenny Lee, and I, my current
partner, we separated for threemonths in 2020. And with the
provision that we don't, wedidn't know, if we were gonna

(26:29):
get back together, we werepretty much sure it was done,
but we weren't going tocommunicate for three months.
And if at the end of threemonths, if we initiated a call.
Sure, we'll check it out.
Luckily, we're both working onsome hardcore self development
individually during that time.
So when we got together, when wegot back together, we're both,
if you will, better versions ofourselves. But with regards to

(26:52):
divorces, or relationships,ending, why it happened for me
multiple times with all thepeople I've met before Jenny
Lee, was because I treated itjust like I would in the gym
where things just plateaued.
They plateau like I just, Istopped take, when you get to
the gym, you're motivated,everything's going well, you're

(27:12):
seeing results right away. Andthen as soon as you hit a
plateau, something happens, andyou just kind of stop doing the
things that you need to do toget you to that next level. And
that's what I would do. Like,I'd start making exceptions to
things that used to be rules. Sorules, for example, is Jenny Lee
and I had a date night when wefirst started dating, we're

(27:32):
coming up on nine years now.
When we first started datingdate night was a massive deal.
Like I'd set up a playlist, Imake sure I had the menu ready,
I made sure I had the all thealcohol for the cocktails, I
wanted to make a special wineand go at dinner like and it was
all planned out. Fast forwardthree or four years date night

(27:53):
is chilling out on the couch,not really talking to each
other, just watching the movieand maybe having a couple laughs
and all of a sudden, that's thebar that's like going from the
gym, going from working out fouror five days a week with really,
really good intensity to justgoing to the gym, going to the
gym and walking on the treadmillfor 15 minutes. Like Like, what
do you expect to happen to yourbody if you dial it down that

(28:13):
much. And relationships are nodifferent. So that's where I
started taking some of thestrategies from inside the gym
outside the gym, where I wantspecifically was like, I know
what styles of workouts I likein the gym, and what works for
me and what keeps me consistent.
I know what exercises I like,and I know what exercises hurt.
So I stay away from those onesand which ones I don't like. So
with Jenny Lee, I literally havea list of exercises that I've

(28:35):
written down, that I can look atand be like, This is how she
knows that I love her. So I'mgoing to make sure I am getting
in my reps with these exercisesevery single week. And just like
with my body, I started trackingit. I've got an app on my phone,
I have to do X number of theseper week in order for Jenny in
order for me to have the bestchances of making sure that

(28:55):
Jenny Lee knows that I love her.
So I hit those exercises everysingle week. And it's super
small. It can be something likefor example, Throwback Thursday.
So what I'll do on Thursdays, isI go into my phone, and I scan
through the camera rule. And Ilook for a picture from this
month, four or five years ago,and then I'll send it to her

(29:16):
with a little story. And that'ssomething that I know she
appreciates. So it's getting inthose reps, getting in those
reps, getting in those reps andmaking sure you're aware of
whether or not you're plateauingin your relationship. So 70% of
divorces, I would say and I saidthis in my last podcast is like
death by 1000 cuts. It's neverbeen it's rarely one thing. It's
gonna be all those little thingsthat all of a sudden you wake up

(29:38):
one day, you leave some dirtydishes on the wrong side of the
sink, your partner flips out andsays you know what I'm out of
here. It's like because there'sdishes on the wrong side of the
sink. No, because of the 1000things that happened before
that.

Hey, this is Philip Pape. And if you feel like
you've put in effort to improveyour health and fitness but
aren't getting results, I inviteyou to apply for a one on one
coaching aim to make realprogress and get the body you
desire. We'll work together tofigure out what's missing. So
you can look better, performbetter and feel better. Just go
to wits & weights.com/coaching,to learn about my program and

(30:12):
apply today. Now back to theepisode. Yeah, and I imagine
that the, your spouse isprobably telling you this over
the years to you're notnecessarily listening. Because I
just to give an example, with,you know, we all we're all on
our phones all the time, and,and I'm on a lot these days,

(30:33):
because because my business aswell. And I know that when my
wife talks to me, whenever I'mgonna, even if I'm in the middle
of work, it's like she, youknow, my brain has to say, she's
talking to me stop, like, put itdown and look at her and listen,
you know what I mean? Like, justthe simple things like that, you
know, are gonna make her happy.
But I really love all theseideas you have about reminders
and planning it. Because, youknow, I tell people that same

(30:53):
way about nutrition, right? Yougot to plan out your day, plan
out your food, you know, planout the gym, so why wouldn't you
do the same? You know, we planout our work with our calendars.
Yes, that's really good. Everyguy you talked to on these
podcasts probably comes out withsimilar like revelations, man,
this is great stuff.

That's good.
That's good. I'm really gladeverybody's accepting it that
way. Because like I said, thisis just stuff that's worked for
me. I don't know if it will workfor anybody else. I've tried to
make sure a lot of it is veryprinciple based that way can
kind of go across everything.
And it's not unique to anindividual. So I'm really, I'm
very hopeful and confident thatthat will be the case once this

(31:32):
gets a little bit more.

So no, I want it. I want to get pictures from four
years ago of you and yourpartner and send it to my wife.
Isn't that what you want me todo that exact?

That would be hilarious. Yeah. Is this class?

Alright, so I don't know, let's you want to go back
into the fitness side for a bit.
Let's do that. A little bit.
Absolutely. Okay, so the fitnessindustry? Like what's your
opinion on that? Right, what wetaught one of the core
principles of this podcast isthe skepticism of the industry.
I think it's right in a healthyskepticism, a healthy
skepticism, right? Becausethere's there's misinformation

(32:11):
there's even dangerousinformation, if you will,
there's there's perverseincentives, of course, with
supplementation, you know,companies and the influencers,
and how the algorithms pushthings and all of that, a lot of
that it'd be nice to just kindof ignore it. But then people I
think, are overwhelmed and don'tknow where to go. And it's like,
how do you what needs to change?
What's bad with the fitnessindustry? What's good? What

(32:32):
needs to change? In youropinion? Big question, right?
This

is gonna be an eight hour podcast. The first
man, where do I even begin? Forme, my single biggest pet peeve
is weight loss. my singlebiggest pet peeve is weight
loss, or anything to do withweight. And here's why, like,
I'm still I, I really hope thatI can't imagine this will happen

(32:58):
in my lifetime. But at somepoint in time, if I could look
back and see that the termweight loss has never been used
again, that would be phenomenal.
I'll give you a perfect accent.
I'll give you two really goodexamples as to why I've got a
client who's 66 On Tuesday,actually, he's in Hawaii right
now celebrating he's, he's, he'sso amazing. I've had him for
four or five years now. Andhe's, he's in incredible shape.

(33:19):
Like, if he were to come to oneof my group fitness training
classes, he would own a lot ofus. And he's like, six, five,
like, he's not a small guy. Andwhen we first sat down and got
together, like, Okay, well, whatwhat is your number one goal,
and he listed a weight that hewanted to get down to? I'm like,
Okay, there's bells going off inmy head, because I don't want to

(33:39):
hear that. But I understandthat's important to him. I'm not
going to tell him it shouldn'tbe. So I said, Okay, well, what
are four facts that you believeare going to be true for you
when you get there? So he said,Well, I want my visceral fat to
go down for sure I want my bodyfat to go down. I want to be
able to fit into this size suit,and I want injuries to be
reduced. It's like, Okay, nowwe've got our measurables are
tangible, measurables way beforewe got down to the weight that

(34:03):
he wanted, or he thought he hadto get down to in order to
achieve those things, we achievethose things. So if that's the
case, why are we not focusing onthe facts that we expect to be
real for us? So the otherexample is me. I typically was
walking around, or Yeah, about150 pounds. I'm like 5859, let's

(34:24):
say that. And I was typicallywalking around at about 150
pounds. I always told myselfever since I was probably 25.
That in order to look and feeland perform the way that I want
to I need to be 165 pounds witha body fat percentage less than
865 pounds of body fatpercentage last night. So I'm
like, okay, my body fatpercentage at the time was 15.
I've got to get it down to eightand I've got to put on 15

(34:46):
pounds. That when I made thetransformation in 2020 at the
end of 2020, beginning of 2021It was 63 days, and I went from
150 to 148 So actually lost twopounds. And I went from a body
fat percentage of 15 to 12. Sodropped 3%. And I looked felt in
performing the way that I wantedto. So that number I had in my

(35:07):
head was just so inaccurate,like insanely inaccurate. But
the other thing that I wouldtransform about the health and
fitness industry is gettingpeople to make the habits they
want to adopt their goal. Likewhat like the behaviors, I want
to measure my behaviors, theprocess, the end results of

(35:28):
those behaviors? Because I don'tknow if you've read the book
atomic habits. Clear? Yes, yeah,it's so good. And there's so
many things in there, theanalogy he makes is, if you're a
basketball team, you know whatyour out outcome is, it's the
championship, but are you goingto spend the entire game looking
up at the scoreboard? No, you'regoing to focus on the
fundamentals that are going toget you to score those points,

(35:49):
because then the win isinevitable. So same thing with
the health and fitness industry,if we could somehow get people
off of this number on the scale,and say, Okay, let's spend a
little bit of time helping youfigure out exactly what you want
to look, feel and perform like.
But now that we have thatcrystal clear, let's spend 90%
of our time figuring out howwe're going to make it as easy
as possible for you to engage inthe behaviors that are going to

(36:12):
lead you to that outcome andjust focus 100% on the system,
like James Comey said, You donot rise to the level of your
goals, you fall to the level ofyour system. Yeah, so focusing
on the system is what we need todo. That's what happens process.

So first, I'm gonna go through all my materials and
make sure I don't have the termweight loss anywhere. No, no,
no, no, it's funny, because Iactually agree with you, I'll
say I'll say 90%. Because, frommy perspective, it's the term
weight loss can mean differentthings. But I also prefer the
term fat loss when we're talkingabout what people are trying to

(36:46):
get to. And then I go beyondthat, and say, well really want
you to do is feel good, right?
You want to look and feel goodin your clothes. And you kind of
keep going from there. Becausewhere I am right now, I'm five,
nine, like you. And I justfinished a building phase. And
I'm like, 187, and I'm just, youknow, I'm feeling I'm feeling
fluffy. Right? I'm like, feelingthat way. Yeah. And and it's not
my optimal feeling. But at thesame time, I know, all my lifts

(37:07):
went up. So I'm excited. And theprocess to get there was great.
And I'm happy with it's like alittle trade off. Right.
Exactly. Yeah. So all that Itotally agree. Because I think
weight loss cells, right? Ithink we know that that the
quick fix is what says, ButInstagram and all these guys are
gonna push the things that getclicks, you know, you're never
gonna go away like that.

That's what I want to challenge you on?
Because Okay, okay, perspectiveon this, because one thing that
you talked about so much as bodycomposition, yes, body
composition, like if we canfocus on body composition or
body re composition. So for me,I think about using the term
weight loss because it sells,but then I'm like, Ah, I feel
like I'm lacking integrity if Ido, right, because I want to get

(37:54):
people away from that. And Iknow, it's like clickbait and
everything like that. But it'sgot to start somewhere. It has
to start somewhere. And withsomebody, I'm like, I don't
know. Ah, that's what I strugglewith. So I'm really curious what
your opinion is on that, interms of the integrity with
weight loss, or, you know, what,if that's somebody's language,

(38:15):
great. And then maybe we can,hopefully influenced them to see
that there's other alternativesthey can focus on? I don't know,
what's your opinion? Yeah, I

actually don't use weight loss very often at all,
I'm not even sure I'm not evensure you'd find it on my
website, or most other places,to be honest. But I do know very
high integrity coaches that useit, they'll use terms like
sustainable weight loss, orsomething like that. And, and
when you look at their systemand their the approach, it's not
that dissimilar, it's a verylifestyle based, you know, you

(38:45):
don't even start dieting untilyou get all the other things up
to where they need to be, youknow, your movement, your
training, and so on. And thenit's more of the acknowledgement
that most people are probablycarrying either an unhealthy
level of weight quote, unquote,weight that impacts their
health, you know, like their theblood pressure, cholesterol, all
that stuff. Or that, like yousaid, people don't realize that

(39:07):
the weight they want to be at isthis random number may not have
anything to do with the weightthey need to be at to feel the
way they want to feel. Right,right. And I've had clients,
usually women who really arefocused on losing the weight and
and I've sort of convinced themmaybe, or gotten them to
convince themselves to buildmuscle first, and get into a
conversation of like, Hey, canwe can we were you, you were an

(39:28):
extra jacket. It's winter like,and not worry about the physique
as much in the short term. Andguess what, you're gonna feel
really good. And then the wholemindset starts to change where
it's like growth and adding toyour body and including things
and then yeah, and then we cango through a fat loss phase,
that's like, you're now trainingreally hard. We're going to hold
on to muscle like you've neverdone before. When you've done
weight loss, and we're justgoing to lose fat. It's gonna be

(39:51):
a different, differentexperience. And you're not going
to have to lose 20 pounds, youmight only have to lose five or
10, right? Because you've gotall this muscle so you have to I
mean, Weight in terms of bodymass has to come into play
somewhere to measure. Yes, yeah,I agree shouldn't be an
obsessive thing. Yeah,

I think you just hit on what would be I think it
might be number three that Iwould 100% change about the
health and fitness industry. Andit's focusing on what you need
to add as opposed to what youneed to take away. So like
adding muscle? Absolutely. Sofor me the way that I when I'm
on my onpoint with nutrition, Iuse something an app called Dr.

(40:28):
Greger Gregers daily doesn't youknow who Dr. Greger is, I don't,
but I should probably you wrotea book called How Not to Die,
and then follow up with anotherbook, how not to diet. And so he
has an app called Dr. All thatreminds me I showed it to my
client this morning, I forgot tosend it to her because she wants
it for her dad. Anyways, I gotto do that. In it. He has a list

(40:49):
of he's a huge plant basedadvocate. So no meat, no dairy,
nothing like that. And I'm themajority of plant based like I
might have one or two meals aweek that have some meat or
dairy in it. Because I lovepizza and burgers. But in the
app, he has a list of all thethings that you want to make
sure you're getting in a day,and you can get 24 points out of

(41:10):
it. So there's grains, there'sberries, there's greens,
cruciferous veg exercises ontheir waters on their nuts and
seeds, herbs and spices, allthose things. So I know for me
that I have a baseline of what Iabsolutely minimum have to get
out of 24. And it's 12. Ideally,I'm closer to 20 on a daily

(41:32):
basis. So what happens is when Ithink about having the burger or
the pizza, or the Boston Creamdoughnut, which anybody who
knows me knows is one of myvices. When I think about having
that, I have to look at whatI've had already first, because
if I don't have like, if I'm notat like 17, or 18, or 20 on the

(41:52):
list, guess what, I've got toget to that list first. So then
I'll have a meal, that rep thathas those points in it, those
qualities and those ingredients.
And now all of a sudden, guesswhat I don't want after I have
that meal, because I'm focusedon adding the good things as if
you automatically add muscle,you will subtract that if you
automatically add good nutrientdense foods into your life into

(42:15):
your meal plan, you willautomatically not have rooms or
those non nutrient dense foods.
So adding is a huge thing.

Yeah, it crowds things out. That's like another
way I like putting people out. Ilove that. And a simple way.
It's it's similar approach towhat you said, you know, now
with the point system, but mostpeople don't have enough protein
in their diet. And if they startto focus on getting more
protein, if you think aboutwhere you get protein in the
world, unless you're buying abunch of protein bars and whey

(42:48):
shakes, it's pretty much wholefoods like that's at either
animal sources, or if you'replant based, there's plant
sources to get your protein. Andincluding way which ways is one
of the exceptions, I like tomake the processed foods because
it really is just a high qualitypart of milk. But if you start
saying well now I need the fivetimes a day and I have to get
enough protein it starts tocrowd things out it just Yeah.

(43:10):
Oh, now I need some either, youknow, rice and oats and I need
meat and eggs, dairy and allthese things. Yeah. So it's a
good philosophy to takeanything.

Yeah, I absolutely love that the street
you call it crowd you arecrowded out

crowds. You still have room for it. Like you said,
you haven't gotten this in yet.
And then once you get it in, I'mnot gonna have that Coke, you
know, or I'm not gonna have thatother thing because there's no
room for it.

Yeah, yeah, I'm just so you know, I'm 100% steel
in that crowded pool.

I'm still a whole bunch of things for this and
good thing that's beingrecorded. All right, so what
else? Let's see. So fitness. Wetalked about the fitness
industry. What do you saw? Wedidn't talk too much about your
training specifically, but whatdo you think it means to get in
shape or get in the best shapeof your life? You know, how does
somebody do that? Okay,

so, for me, a couple years ago, I came up with
this idea, or actually, I guessit was in 2017. When I joined
the men's men's group, one ofthe guys on there, him and I he
saw that I worked out and helived in like the Ukraine or
something like that. But he sawthat I worked out. I saw him

(44:19):
doing some pretty cool videos.
So we got to be friends. Andthen he challenged me to a 500
burpee contest. And so yeah, hedid 500 burpees. And I'm like,
okay, whatever, I'll give it ago. And he did it. I think he
did it in just under 45 minutesor something like that. And so I
had no idea how long it wasgonna take me. So I was actually

(44:39):
visiting Jenny Lee's parents inVancouver at the time. And so
one day I decided whatever I'llI'll give it a go. So I went
outside and I made sure I didn'thave the clock on so I couldn't
see the timer, and I made sure Ihad really good music going and
it just took my time. I had noidea what it's going to be like,
and sure enough, I I wanted tohave a really good song for the

(45:00):
last 50 are really good musicfor last 50. So I turned on my
phone and the timer came on. Andit was at like 43 and a half.
I'm like, oh, no, I've got aminute and a half to do 50 which
obviously isn't gonna happen,but I came close. So ever since
then, I've had very specificworkouts that I do on a monthly

(45:21):
basis to assess where I'm atcompared to where I used to be.
So the one that I was doing lastsummer that worked out really,
really good. Was the Murph, areyou?

Yeah. Which one is that? That's the mile and then
to other

the, you run a mile you do 100 Pull Ups, 200
push ups, 300 squats run anotherweek. And that was that was the
bar for me to see if my time wasimproving. So when I was doing
it, my time was improving. Sonow with my clients inside the
gym to once a month for threeconsecutive months, we do the
same workout. So then itinvolves strength and insult,

(46:01):
volume, stamina, endurance, evenmobility and flexibility. And we
assess so are you better thanthe previous version of
yourself. Because not only isthat going to require a lot of
consistency, both inside andoutside the gym. I know you're
huge on this, the mindsetcomponents is like a lot of
people think that I was having aconversation with a buddy the

(46:22):
other day, he's like, Oh, we allknow that, like changing your
body is 20% workouts 80%nutrition. I'm like you're
missing a lot of componentsthere. There's the mindset
component, because if you don'tthink that your mindset and like
influences how you eat, and howyou work out, you're missing
something. The prep work issomething I follow. It's just an

(46:43):
acronym, I had physical healthand fitness, relationship health
and fitness, emotional healthand fitness and purpose health
and fitness. If you think thequality of your relationship is
not affecting the quality of thefood that you put in your body,
and the quality of the workoutsthat you have, and the quality
of sleep that you have, likethere's so many things in that
pie chart that we neglect. Butanyways, answering your question

(47:04):
we have, and I have veryspecific workouts that we do
once a month to make sure thatwe are making progress in the
direction that we want to go.
Whether that's lifting moreweight, doing things in a
shorter amount of time, goingfaster, being more mobile,
whatever it is.

Yeah, that makes sense, right? Because that's
subjective. And it sort of, Iguess if you reverse engineer
it, I assume you don't just doit in a vacuum and say all
right, the months in between dowhatever you want and then we're
going to test you have a plan toget there right now work on that
specific skills there is it justyou know that the Murph is a
pretty is kind of a catch all sothat, yeah, right.

It's a catch all in so many ways, because it,
it's very mentally daunting.
Like, especially the pull upslike 100 pull ups is, it's not
easy. It's not easy, like 300squats, it's bodyweight. I don't
do the weighted vests like it'sour original one is I don't do
the weighted vest. Not yet.
That's for sure. But 30 Likedoing doing 300 squats

(48:03):
bodyweight when you weigh 145pounds is not that big a deal.
So and push push ups to right.
When you when you don't weighthat much. Isn't that big a
deal. But the pull ups pull upsget? Yeah. Yeah.

Even that much harder when you weigh more. Oh,
yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That'sone, one lift that goes way up.
When I lose weight. Yeah. Pullup. You know, have you heard of
the 40%? Rule? Danny? I thinkit's Danny Goggins the Navy
SEAL. David God, David Goggins?
There you go, David. Yes.

It until you said his name. David. No, yes, we're
actually only when we thinkwe're done. We're actually only
at 40% of our capacity.

I thought of that with your burpees. Because I'm
like, if you did that next time,and got to 500. Are you only 40%
done with your capacity? Couldyou do another AC

that 700. Now you've totally challenged me,
because when I started doing theburpees, I would do them in sets
of 25 or no sets 20. I do set to20. And I just did how many of
them went up to 500. And then Istarted doing the last time I
did it. I started off in sets of25 for the first 200. Then for

(49:16):
the next 200. I went in sets of50. So that's only for four
sets. And then the final 100. Ijust did in one straight set. So
that just goes to show you thatsure my capacity has increased
over time, but at the same time,was it really at 100%? And the
answer is always going to be noi for me. I can't imagine ever

(49:36):
getting to 100% I can't imaginethere ever being a time where
there wasn't a second that couldhave shaved

off do one Yeah. Or you can do one more burpee and
then one more burpee likeindefinitely for days on end,
right? Yeah,

but the 40% rule, huge because it's just like when
you get to that point in the setwhere the burn starts to kick
in. That's not when the setends. That's when it started.
Like everything else beforeWithout is just foreplay. Now
the set begins, like, what areyou going to do from this point
on, as long as your form doesn'tgive away, because that's my

(50:07):
biggest pet peeve is just doingthings for the sake of getting
in the reps of the short amountof time without any
consideration to what your formis like or why you're doing the
exercise in the first place. Soyeah, that next that's right up
there with weight loss for me.

And yeah, you remind me of my CrossFit days. I
don't do much of that anymore.
But yeah, I remember talkingabout that. Yeah, yeah, that
especially what was it grace,doing grace for the cleaning
jerks? So I know we're gettingclose on time. There's one thing
a couple more things if youdon't mind. Yeah, of course.
There's you were talking about Ithink this was on one of your
podcasts as well. about theimportance of accountability for

(50:42):
yourself, but also people aroundyou I think you were talking
about your your I don't know ifyou're talking to your actual
brothers or your like, brother,

but I call Yeah, I call all my good all the good
men that I consider to be inwhat I call my love nest, like
the most important people. Yeah,like, I just, yeah, I refer to
them as brothers. I

know that makes a lot more sense to me since this
conversation. No, no, no,

I've only got two real older brothers and right.
That's it. So yeah, the thethese guys are just, we refer to
each other as brothers. So

yeah, yeah. And you talked about kind of not the way
I interpreted it like not beingthe No at all that's trying to
teach them what to do. But youwant to shoulder some you said
shoulder some of the sufferingof your loved ones. Yeah, and
express your passion and love ina receptive and patient way to
help them but without like,overstepping, so how do we put
that into practice? Okay, sosolving everybody's problems on

(51:37):
the show? No, no, you're

asking just the absolute best questions like
you're a fickle nominal host.
This is this is so easy. Okay,so the other day, I'm having a
conversation with one of mybrothers, who lives down in the
States. And we're talking aboutsome relationship issues that,
that we're having, well, thatthat he's having. And so we've
given each other permission tobe pretty blunt about some

(52:03):
things. But at the same time, Ihave to realize that say, for
example, inside the gym, one ofthe things that I've that I love
doing is agility work, like Ilove doing plyometric style
stuff. So say, for example, boxjumps. And I like I can get up
there pretty good with BoxJumps. But should I expect that

(52:23):
anybody coming to workout withme, because I tell them how it's
done should be able to do it.
Like, that's insane. It's likesome guy who can put four plates
on the bar and do a deadlift, Ican't do that. I've never been
able to do that. So just becausehe tells me how he does it.

(52:44):
Should that mean that I can doit? No, we all have different
strengths and weaknesses. Sowhen I have a conversation with
him, and he's, and we'regetting, we're going back and
forth, it's like, Okay, here'swhat I found works for me when
I've been in a similar positionas you, I don't know if it's
going to work for you,especially when it comes to
relationship stuff. Because Itell guys all the time, I have,

(53:05):
I have a serious handicap overother men when it comes to Jenny
Lee, because Jenny Lee and Ihave a level of communication
that is unlike anything I'veever experienced in my life, and
based on what other men havetold me is something like that
they don't have but this issomething that we cultivated
over years, years, years, years,years, years, to the point where

(53:25):
something as small as Jenny Leeand I will never ever, ever say,
You made me feel this becausenow you are placing
responsibility for your feelingsonto the other individual. The
language we use in language isso important. The language uses.
You know what, when you did thisor said this, it triggered this
in me. Can we talk about this?
So you're acceptingresponsibility? So the

(53:48):
conversation I'm having with mybrothers like, Okay, well, when
your wife said this, well, howdid you respond? And how did you
take that? And not only that,this is the thing that I love.
And I am so guilty of this, too.
If we're complaining aboutsomething that our partner does,
I said to him, Listen, is thisthe first time that she did?
He's like, no, she does this allthe time. Okay, if you were

(54:13):
going home from the gym, passthe fast food, fast food joint.
And you were stopping therebecause you said you learned it,
and yet you're sabotagingresults? Are you gonna keep
driving that same route? Are yougoing to take a different route
so that you don't pass that sametroublespot? Like, okay, we'll
take a different route. So whydo you keep taking the same
route with your wife? When itcomes to communication, you're

(54:36):
gonna have to figure outsomething different because
guess what, you're never goingto change her. You're never
going to change her. You caninfluence something with your
own behavior, but you have towork on what you can control. So
can you control the way that youreact and respond with your
partner? Yes, so put 90% of yourattention there and then tempers

(54:56):
10% of time you can you can be ajerk like I am but but you So
that's, again, I don't even knowif that's your question. No,

you are and that and that's like the heart of
stoicism and like personalresponsibility even, I always
come back to fitness analogies.
You know, I tell people that wecan't control what our bodies
do. But we can control all theinputs and let our bodies react
to those. Same thing, we can'tcontrol other people, we can
control what we do. So you'reright, if if the same things
happening over and over again,then look to yourself perhaps

(55:26):
and see if you can change.
Always great advice. Are thereany books you'd recommend for
men who want to become bettermen? There's there's your
workbook too. But you know, man

cave. So, again, a brilliant question. Honestly,
and I'm not saying this just aplug it just when I've thought
about what the legacy is that Iwant to leave behind, and
anytime I have conversationswith some of my brothers, and
they just want some advice onsomething, or they want my
opinion, the first thing I do isjust say, You know what, just
start journaling. You don't evenhave to get the journal like,

(55:58):
I'll give you a link that peoplecan get to download the free
like blueprint for it. So youhave the four questions, and you
know how it works. But thereason why I say this is because
this is getting you to come upwith your own answers. It's not
me telling you what to do. It'snot, it's not any guru telling
you what to do. It's not Philtelling you what to do. It's you
taking something that they said,and coming up with your own

(56:19):
answer, because nobody knowsyou, like you know you. So the
more you know you the moreknowledge you have about
yourself. And the more you'reputting that to action, the
better it's going to be, whichis what this is all about. But
in terms of other books, firstand foremost, the Way of the
Superior Man, The Way of theSuperior Man by David, I believe
his name is, the last thingmight be pronounced data or
data, the chapters are supershort, and they are filled with

(56:44):
unbelievable wisdom. So the waythe Superior Man would be number
one, or a tie for number one,because the other one would be
The War of Art. And that one isby Steven Pressfield. That one
has to do with dealing with yourown inner resistance. Because if
you can get to know whatresistance is inside of you, and
relinquish that resistance, nowall of a sudden, all the
potential that was there is freeto come out. So those would be

(57:08):
those would be the top two, forsure. And then anything by Don
Miguel Ruiz says he has the FourAgreements, which is good. The
not the voice of knowledge is ahuge one. And then the mastery
of love. The mastery of love isa huge one too. And they're all
the best thing about thosebooks. They're super short.
They're super short and supereasy to digest.

All right, love it.
Yeah, that's an awesome list.
Thank you for sharing, I'm gonnalook into those man. And all
those, I remember, include themin the show notes, you know how
it is with show notes. You gottaget cram it all in there. But
people have to listen to thepodcast is to hear this.
Alright, so this is thepenultimate question I like to
ask. And that is, what onequestion Did you wish I had

(57:49):
asked? And what is your answer?

Oh, wow. See if I'm pausing. That's good,
because it means that you've,you've asked so many amazing
questions, I'm going to dialback and see if I can come up
with something that has to dowith men's emotional health and
fitness. Actually, question thatyou would that I wish you would

(58:11):
have asked? Here's one, and Idon't know how I'm going to
answer it. What is the thingthat I personally struggle with
the most that I wish I didn'tstruggle with? That I'm
embarrassed that I strugglewith? So for you to ask that
question, that would be a ballsyquestion to ask me. But I'm
going to put it out there. Sothe thing that I struggle with
the most that I wish I didstruggle with, then I'm

(58:34):
embarrassed that I strugglewith, um, man is, I don't know
if you're gonna have to editthis out or not. But we'll
record it. And then if you needto edit it out, go ahead and
edit it out. But it actually hasto do with the extinction
protocol, because I did anothermental muscle up because I
really liked that. And I wantedto see where else I can use it.

(58:58):
For me, when I feel my lowestwhen I'm really depressed. I
turn to porn. And like, it's,it's actually I'm holding back
tears right now, because Irealize how much that's costing
me like it definitely doesn'thappen nearly as much as it used

(59:19):
to because I have strategies inplace to better manage my
depression, but it still happensevery once in a while and when
it does, I'm there and I'm likeCarla, like why are you doing
this? You know what this iscosting you like this is costing
you so much mental and emotionalenergy. This is costing you
connection with Jenny Lee, thisis you are going to feel so much
worse after this. Why are youdoing this? And yet sometimes

(59:42):
that voice inside me I just Istill can't so that's another
thing that I actually did a bitwith the extinction protocol is
that's another thing I'm gettingrid of. I'm absolutely 100%
Getting rid of porn in my lifebecause I realize the standards
it's setting With regards tointimacy and how just toxifying

(01:00:04):
it is, and I know as a man, I amnot alone there, I just know
we're not talking about it. Sothat would be what I struggle
with the most sentiment bearsthat I struggle with. That is
still a work in progress, buthas massively shifted in my life

(01:00:25):
since I've recognized that, butat the same time, the next level
up now is for it to be nonexistent. So I will be using the
extinction protocol for that.
And just, if you don't mind, Ijust really want to read what
the extinction protocol is sothat people know what I'm
talking about. It's from Episode30 of your episode. But the
extinction protocol is the brainrecognizing that is a craving

(01:00:45):
you never, you never want to getinto. And it stops the craving,
we don't crave things that wethat we're never going to have.
So whether that's food, whetherthat's porn, whether it's
whatever, those are things, I'mjust never going to have fast
food is never going to be it.
And if you think about it, pornis really the fast food of
emotional sedation. So that'swhat I would. That's a question

(01:01:10):
that there's no way you wouldhave ever asked.

Philip Pape (01:01:12):
And I'm not, I won't edit that out if you don't
want because I think men need tohear that. And I think, no, I
just No, no, no, it's totallyvalid topic. We don't talk about
it enough. And people can hearthat. And it's probably going to
resonate with a lot of men. Andif it also makes me hold you
accountable, knowing that it'sout there, I don't know, for

Carl Berryman (01:01:32):
you sit on now that you said that it's gonna be
top of mind. And that'sbeautiful. I love that because
that is the other reason I startactually, the one of the main
reasons I became a personaltrainer was because I needed
that accountability like you.
You can't, to me, yes, there aretrainers out there who can't may
not necessarily look the part,it doesn't mean that they don't

(01:01:52):
have value to offer. I'm notsaying that. I'm just saying
given my own personal values,which are not better than
anybody else's. I knew that if Ireally wanted to have integrity
as a trainer, I need to look andact the parts. Yeah. And there's
just, there's no betteraccountability than having to
show up and teach a class and beable to do the things you're

(01:02:13):
asking people to do. Yes. So whosaid that when this is out
there? Okay. Hopefully thesystem I have in place works and
we can extinct that extinct,extinguished that stuff forever.
So

well. And you were the episode you were referring
to, I think was Dr. GlenLivingston, right? And He even
talks about like we do we strivefor perfection, you're not
always going to get there. Soeven though you know, like, you
put it out there, you're goingto do it, you're going to put in
your system. And what happenshappens. And I'm not saying that
you have leeway to fail on thatto yourself, but you know, it
may or may not, whatever, that'sreality. Now you're going to you

(01:02:49):
know, you're going to do yourbest and you're you're taking
action to make it happen, whichis cool. Yes, exactly. Yeah.
Nice, man. Well, we're canlisteners learn more about you
and your work and maybe downloadthe workbook you talked about at
Ignite the impact

on Instagram, for sure. And then all shoot you a
link for the download for theblueprint. Because starting the
mental muscle up like afterlistening to this episode,
there's so many things that wereshared between us that I know
are going to be revelations, butdon't let them stop there. Like
the mental muscle uptakes youcan do it in like 10 minutes is

(01:03:23):
how long it takes me in themornings when I'm writing it
out. And it's so simple to makesure that you're taking action
on that. So that would be it.
And then if there were oneepisode of inspired by impact I
would recommend everybody listento it'd be number 2424 kind of
goes over the core fourcornerstones on whether it's
your body want to transformwhether you're battling
depression like I was, and stillam, whether it's lack of

(01:03:46):
intimacy and poor communication,your relationship, whether it's
finding your sense of purposeand figuring out what it takes
to be fulfilled. That episodegives you the foundation to
tackle all of that. So episodenumber 24, for sure.

All right at Ignite the impact the mental muscle up
in Episode 24, I will definitelythrow those in the show notes.
So the listeners can find allthis amazing material and
hopefully they'll have to listento this episode a couple of
times and then it also good,Carl, this has been super unique
conversation. I think this ispretty good chemistry. You know,
I really enjoyed back and forth.
And you've opened my eyes a lotyou gave me a lot to think about

(01:04:22):
and listeners as well. So I'mhonored that you came on the
show.

Thank you very much and feel for you man like
since I've already taken done tomuscle ups based on your episode
like I always say like we'rehere to ignite the impact we
wish to see in our world. Andyou're definitely igniting an
impact in mine, especially withthis episode. So thanks very
much for having me, but

I appreciate that.
That's so great to hear. Love tohear. All right, take it easy,
man. Thanks for listening to theshow. Before you go, I have a
quick favor to ask. If you enjoythe podcast, let me know by
leaving a five star review inApple podcasts. I'm telling
others about the show. Thanksagain for joining me Philip Pape
in this episode of Wits &Weights. I'll see you next time

(01:05:05):
and stay strong.

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Ep 47: Finding Your TRUE Purpose in Fitness and Life with Carl Berryman

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