Ep 51: Even an Earthquake Didn't Stop This Wife and Mother from Training

Episode Transcript
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Philip Pape (00:08):
Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast, where we
discuss getting strong andhealthy with strength training
and sustainable nutrition. I'myour host, Philip pape, and in
each episode, we examinestrategies to help you achieve
physical self mastery through ahealthy skepticism of the
fitness industry, and acommitment to consistent
nutrition and training forsustainable results. Welcome to

(00:31):
another episode of Wits &Weights. We are streaming this
live in our free Facebookcommunity. So if you want early
access to these types ofepisodes, and you haven't joined
yet, just go to the link in theshow notes. Alright, today I'm
joined by my client Heatherclinger, a wife and mother of
five, currently homeschoolingher children in Turkey. She's
passionate about teaching andcreating music, and is enjoying

(00:54):
learning how to lift heavythings of that. I met Heather
four months ago, and she reachedout for one on one nutrition
coaching to improve her bodycomposition get stronger and
build muscle. Most importantly,she wanted to feel her best and
set an example for her kids ofachieving results through hard
work and committing to asustainable process. Despite

(01:15):
constant upheaval for her andher family during the recent
earthquakes in Turkey, Heatherfound the mental resilience,
commitment and strength tocontinue her training and
maintain our fitness routine asone way of coping with such a
stressful situation. Through usworking together. Heather has
been mastering strengthtraining, nutrition and mindset
for several months, both througha muscle building phase and now

(01:36):
a fat loss phase. But the changein her strength and body
composition are just a smallpart of what she's learned, and
the practices she's developedthat give her a resilient,
positive and sustainable outlookon life. So today, we're talking
about her experience during theearthquakes, our nutrition
coaching, journey together, andspecific lessons and strategies
you can use to stay focused ongetting results. So Heather,

(01:58):
after that long introduction.
I've been looking forward tothis. And thank you for your
courage and coming on to shareyour story.

Heather Clinger (02:03):
Hi, Philip.
Yeah, thank you. Thank you forinviting me here today. I hope
that the things I share can behelpful to others.

Yeah, they definitely will. I'm really
excited for the conversation.
And I want to start with yourstory. Like who is Heather
cleaner? And then specifically,what were you struggling with?
And what had you tried before wemet? And before we started
working together?

Okay, so I think when I when I look back at
like, where did my strugglestart? And what were my
struggles, I have this memory inmy head that I'm pretty sure I
was 12 Right. And I walked intothis dressing room, and I put on
this skirt, knowing that it wasgonna look so cute, just like
the model on the, you know, thepicture. And, and I looked down

(02:50):
and the skirt didn't go straightdown like it did, you know, on
the advertisement that I saw itand I kept, you know, pushing on
my thighs wheeling that skirt tolook the way that it did on that
model. And I think that was justthe beginning of a very long,
you know, when I wasn't a happykid, even right, it was just me

(03:13):
deciding what my body shouldlook like, and then deciding
that it didn't look like that.
And just very subjectively,right. And just starting on this
long road of trying to you know,beat my body into submission
through really rigorous exerciseregimens or really strict
dieting, and then falling intodepression when it didn't and

(03:34):
eating my way back intooblivion.

So, yeah, that that I mean, and you're definitely
not alone in that kind of, ofhistory and background that you
struggled. It sounds like itwasn't just physical, right? A
lot of it was mental. It wasbeating yourself up and thinking
that this was the standard thatyou had to strive for. And of
course, then it leads to thispsychosis of constantly, quote
unquote, failing to do that,right.

Yeah, it really is. I mean, because there's
nothing that that told me how mybody should look. Right? It was,
I mean, you can get messagesfrom society or, you know, TV
and advertisements and thingslike that. But there really are,
you know, so many beautiful,unacceptable bodies out there.
And I just decided on my ownthat mine wasn't one of them.

And then what so let's tie that into the last
year. So before just before wemet and started working
together, what was the momentwhere you said to yourself, I
really need to do somethingdifferent, or I need to reach
out to a coach. Yeah,

I had been sort of, on my own, trying different
things. The last country that welived in, my husband is in the
State Department and so we getto live a lot of different
places. And the last time wemoved and in moving is always
just this Crazy mental strugglefor me, you know, I, I like to

(05:03):
teach, but I lose my studentswhen we move. I love music, but
I lose my instruments, you know,for periods of time when we
move. And in the last countrythat that we had been in, I, you
know, went off the rails gettingall sorts of weight, and I
decided that I was food addictand joined food addicts. Okay, I

(05:23):
sort of separated myself fromthat, after a while and decided
that while it was super helpfulfor many people to you know,
accept that in themselves, Ifound it to be sort of a
limiting belief that I didn'twant, you know, I felt like it
made me more scared of food andI wanted to be, you know, free
of those feelings. And so,anyway, I had been trying all

(05:47):
these things on my own, andreally felt like, you know,
maybe I'd start going back toCrossFit get into some, like,
regimen that would help me bestrong. I loved, you know,
lifting weights at CrossFit. Ialways felt sort of, wrung out
at the end of it. Oh, yeah.

Then they're

really hard.
But I felt, you know, awesome,at the same time. And so just
trying to decide, like, what,what is next? What is it that
I'm missing? Right, I'm okaywith my weight ish. But, but I'd
like to be strong, you know, andright around that time trying to
figure out what it was that Iwanted. Next, my cousin entered
a bodybuilding contest, and, youknow, cousins, similar genes,

(06:27):
sort of, you know, and, and Isaw her pictures, and I was just
blown away, like, are youserious? That's my, I mean,
she's always been beautiful, buther body definitely looked
strong. Right. And she didreally well in her contest. And
I was just so impressed. And Isort of reached out to her to
get some clues. And I startedlistening to weightlifting

(06:50):
podcasts, and realizing that,you know, there was something
else out there. And you asked,When I reached out to you for
coaching, right? That was

all of this stuff is colors, the picture really
nice. I like I like, there'squestions that I have for you
out of this, we keep going.
Sure.

Okay, so, so then I, after listening to all
these podcasts, I was like, youknow, what, it's, I would love
to have a coach, I need a coachand my husband was on board with
it. But the thing was, is I knewthat in the next couple of
months, we were planning to moveagain. And I was like, Well,
that would be a terrible idea,right? I'm not going to pay all

(07:33):
this money to get into a programthat I know I'm gonna have to
put on hold. But I do want tokeep weightlifting. And I
promised myself that as soon aswe got to Turkey, which is where
we were moving, that I was goingto get a coach, and why. Yeah,
so we got to Turkey and some ofthe podcasts, I was listening to

(07:54):
had coaching programs thatweren't available, but they
were, you know, going to come upand I was sort of waiting for a
space to open in one of those.
And meanwhile, I was getting allthese questions. And I really
had three questions. And Ishould go back in my email and
find out what those questionswere. Because I can't remember
right now.

I remember that conversation. Yeah. I remember
the questions. All right. Yeah,we have to revisit that.

Well, one of them was about my training
split, right? Because I wasdoing an arm day, a leg day rest
an arm day and a leg day, Ithink is what sort of my
training split was.

I don't want any one of our protein to or were
they all just were they allabout lifting or? Yeah,

remember. But anyway, I had these three
questions that I had writtendown in an email that was
helping me to keep track of mylike fitness stats. And I found
a new podcast that morning. Andyou were the guest on that
podcast. And you answered allthree of my questions in the

(08:57):
podcast, and then at the end,advertised that you were
coaching. And I was like, he'scoaching. And so I emailed you
and the

rest is history.
Isn't that amazing how lifeworks? Right? And I remember
having that conversation andthinking that was that was just
so wonderful. Because thepodcasting world I mean, there's
tons of shows, and there's a lotyou can learn, but sometimes
certain things resonate withyou. And the more you listen,
the more you you have a chanceof that happening. Going back
rewinding a little bit to yourstory. So first, on the food
side you mentioned food addictsand how you kind of this

(09:28):
controlled structured systemactually felt restrictive to
you, right?

Yeah. Yeah, and in the food addicts I did. I
did. I just felt like there wasso much fear surrounding food. I
found another group. They werethe bright line eaters who I
felt like their their waythrough it was a lot more
positive. But I just felt likethere had to be something More,

(10:01):
right? Yes. Yeah, it wasn't meso controlled by food all the
time. And actually, like, Ithink if you'd asked me like,
What what did you know? Myhusband would tell you like,
what is Heather's like, biggestgoal? And he'd probably say,
well, she wants to eat whatevershe wants, and look, what's
right. doesn't want that. But itwas interesting, because I

(10:22):
started listening to these, youknow, mommy muscle building
podcasts. And, and they wouldsay things like, and I would eat
the things that I want. Right,right. And yeah, and I get the
body that I wanted. And so I wasdefinitely intrigued.

Yeah, and you talked about the bodybuilding as
well, which we talked aboutoccasionally on this show, you
know, the pursuit of somethinglike bodybuilding, it's a very,
it's an extreme performance oraesthetic goal, right, that most
people don't want, or if theythink they want when they
realize what it takes, it's,they kind of turn the other way
say, No, I'd rather be lifestylelean by actually being a

(11:02):
bodybuilder and getting to thatextreme leanness, but a lot of
the techniques they use tocontrol their physique and their
nutrition do have a lot ofcarryover with just what the
everyday person can use to dothe same. Is that Is that what
you found from that?

Oh, definitely.
Yeah, I'm not sure that I everentered this with the idea that
I needed to be in a bodybuildingcompetition. I think I've wanted
to do pull ups for a long time.
And I wanted a better backsquat. I, I'm afraid that my you
know, the times that I had tobail, a CrossFit, you know,

(11:38):
really low weights are sort ofseared into my head. blasting
through those, you know, low PRSis definitely, you know, change
that in my head. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I love that. And that's, that's part of
what we're going to talk abouthere today is the whole mindset
of performance and building andgaining as opposed to, you know,
this restricting and trying tonecessarily lose weight, even
though that could be a pleasantside effect of the nutrition
side. So going back to goingback to when we started working
together, because I want to walkpeople through the process until

(12:11):
some of the recent excitementyou've had is what surprised you
or did anything surprise you atthe time?

Oh, gosh. So when I think back to when we
first started, I, I almost feela little bit silly, because I
think that the thing thatsurprised me the most was that
you asked me to do thingsdifferently. Right? And he would
think well, yeah, like, Isn'tthat why you got to coach? And

(12:43):
it makes me wonder, you know,what did I want? It's like, I
wanted you to look at all thehard things that I'd been doing,
right? I'd been tracking mymacros, and I'd been working out
and I wanted you to look at meand say, oh, yeah, it's just not
working for you, you must bebroken, or, you know, it mean,
it's not what I wanted. And Ithink that it's really eye

(13:03):
opening to me to look back tothat experience. And be really
grateful that you didn't saythose things. And instead, yeah,
you asked me to trackdifferently. You asked me to
work out differently. I was soannoyed when you asked me to get
a different tracking app. Iknow, you know that. Yeah. And,

(13:24):
and using the different trackingapp has changed me and my habits
and my thought processes sodramatically. And yeah, I'm just
I'm so grateful.

I love that. So I mean, yeah, like, like you said,
it's not it's not that you areare the issue that we have to
fix you, we have to do itdifferently, right, we have to
take a different approach. Andsometimes a coach or another
person, period, whatever it is,it could be. It could be a
friend, somebody you respect, itcould be a podcast host, it

(13:57):
could be somebody who wrote abook, it doesn't matter, gives
you that fresh perspective. Andthe question is, are you going
to do it? You know, are yougoing to take that action? And
is it even the right thing todo? Right? Because a lot of
people struggle with, couldshould do I believe this person
is are they telling me the rightthing? Right, like CrossFit was
the answer one time, right. And,and so you kind of had to, you

(14:17):
had to trust me as part of thisprocess. And then I, but you are
great. I mean, as a client, youjust you do things and you
execute, which is like thenumber one thing that gets you
to make progress and getresults. So that's really cool.
All right. So talking aboutstrength training. What is your
routine look like right now?
Just so the listener gets anidea, like, what does it look

(14:39):
like? How are you progressing?
What are you learning from it?

Right? I think that what I've really learned
from strength training, andshrink training with you is is
really what progress looks likeand what it takes to progress.
Because in a lot of ways whatI've had to learn And is
patience. Right? I think I thinkmy, well, no. Okay, so with,

(15:10):
yeah, sometimes it can seemlike, you know, we've been
working together since October.
And that can seem like a reallylong time. I had this
nutritionist that I was workingwith back at CrossFit when I
used to do CrossFit, and she isabsolutely amazing. And she had
just had a baby. And now it'sbeen four years since that
point. And she posted a picturethe other day saying, I finally

(15:32):
you know, gotten back the bodythat I want. And, and I was
thinking about this woman who isjust incredible. But being
patient for four years, right.
But at the same time, like, if Ithought I would look anything
like her and be able, and, youknow, not even look like her,
but be able to do what she doeswith her body. In four years, it

(15:54):
would totally kill it, you know,like, three times a week, like
I'm doing counting my macros,like I'm doing, you know, for
four years. But at the same, so,but at the same time, I think
that, you know, I was not new toexercise, right. And I wasn't
used to a lot of the things thatwe were doing. But so I thought
that I sort of had a grasp on myown physical limits. But I was

(16:18):
really pleasantly surprised athow quickly my back squat and
deadlift, like progressed,right. I remember the first time
I couldn't deadlift 200 pounds,right. And, and it was, it was
like, one of the first what wasthe first fail, I got to my
deadlifts like they had justgone up and up and up. And I was
like, Wow, that's amazing. Andthen one day, I couldn't do 200.

(16:42):
And I was like, Well, I guessthat's it,

you reached the end.

reached the end. And now like 200 is just
one of my steps on my warmup.
Right? And

exactly, that's awesome. Oh, just just sit with
that. I mean, people need tohear this, right. Because you're
saying that you you've done,you've done CrossFit, you've
lifted barbells you are fitnessoriented, maybe an athletic
person. And yet there was thiswhole new level of strength that
you hadn't experienced before.
Just because you tweaked theweight the process? Yeah,
totally. Yeah, no, that's great.

(17:16):
So what have you learned fromthe fact that your body can do
these things?

Let's see. I think that Well, I think that it
totally crosses over into otherareas of my life. Right? That
just that things do take hardwork, right. And practice and
patience, but that they'retotally possible.

Yeah. Yeah, they are. Yeah. And, you know, hard
work is part of it. For sure.
Patience is part of it. But mostimportantly, you did the work.
You did the work. So that'sgoing really well. Now, a month
ago, on February 6 2023,something happened on that date.
Tell us what that is.

Watch, I can't even believe that. It's part of
me is like, wow, that was only amonth ago. And, and part of me
is like, wow, it's a month ago.
So on February 6, about 417. Inthe morning, my husband and I
woke up to our building, justbeing violently slammed. Like I,

(18:26):
we've lived in California, we'velived in South America and are
familiar enough withearthquakes. And this was just
violent. And I kept tellingmyself, I'm gathering my
children and telling myself tobreathe, and it's almost over.
And this one just felt like itdidn't end. We just kept going
and going. And it did finallyend, you know, but I, I remember

(18:51):
getting my shoes on. But otherthan that, and I sort of
remember my kids walking around,and I think my six year old
laying back down on his bed, andI sort of looked at him like, I
don't know if that's what weshould be doing. But my brain
wouldn't work. Like I'm prettysure now that I was in shock.
Until all of a sudden mydaughter my 13 year old comes in

(19:13):
and says Mom, did you see thecracks in the walls, and I look
up and there are cracks in ourapartment building. And all of a
sudden my brain turns back onand I say get your shoes, get
the dog get out, get out, getout, get out. And we had all
gotten to the stairwell with ourthings. My kids even had their
little like emergency packs thatmy husband so wonderfully helped

(19:36):
them put together. When we firstmoved here, and right as we got
to the stairwell, the buildingstarted to shake again. And I
think at that moment, I had thisyou know, I'm looking at the
already our building has cracksin it. And I'm just thinking
we've lost our chance and it'sbecause of my inability to to
function there. During anemergency, and we're going to,

(20:00):
you know, my kids are going todie. And the building started
eating again, it stoppedshaking, and we got out, my
husband needed to go check in atthe consulate. And so we went.
And we just sat at theconsulate, you know, some of my

(20:20):
kids were able to sleep and Ijust couldn't. It was, we were
getting all sorts of texts frompeople all over the place. That,
you know, we're looking forfamily members, we were hearing
about downed buildings. Even inour city, we found out that the
epicenter was, you know, 100 ormore miles away. And knowing you

(20:44):
know, how violently we had beenshaken, just worrying about
those people at the epicenter ofthe earthquake. And the Marines
sort of made some space for usat the consulate, and we were
just in this room that was onthe ground floor. It was a tent,
they call it, the tent, I think,and it had a, like a TV and a

(21:06):
heater and a frigerator, and acouch, and we sort of just sat
there feeling numb. And therewas even another aftershock
later in the afternoon, and Ijust knew that I couldn't sit
there anymore. I, I was just soyou know, concerned about what

(21:28):
was we didn't feel in danger atthat moment. Right? We knew that
there were so many peopleoutside of that little tent that
were in danger. And it was justreally hard to just sit there
not knowing you know, what wasgoing on and what to do and how
to help. And all of a sudden, Iyou know, I was trying to figure

(21:49):
out what could my kids dobesides just sit here like,
glued to these movies. And Irealized that the consulate was
where I had been working out.
When we first moved to Turkey.
We found a gym right next to ourapartment, actually, a few
months later, but for a fewmonths, when I first started
working with you, I would driveevery day, go to the consulate

(22:09):
get in my workout in theirfantastic little gym, and
remembering Okay, so the gym ishere. And I and it's Monday, I
go to the gym on Mondays, and soI went to the gym. So, I mean,

so there's so much the process there and what it's
incredible, because first itsounds like you felt like you
could die, right when ithappened when you're in the
building.

Right? And that seems sort of dramatic now. But
I didn't write seeing the cracksin the building. And yeah,

I tell you how I mean that I can't imagine. So
and then you got to the theembassy, right? And now you felt
safe. But you're still worriedabout all the other people and
we know how horrible thoseearthquakes were seeing that in
the news. And then you're like,Well, what do I do next? I mean,
at the same time, we have to wehave to live and we have to do

(23:08):
something and move forward withthe acknowledgement that these
things are still happening. Andyou know, you made a comment
that it's you said Monday,right? When you go to gym, you
said it's Monday on Mondays I goto the gym, almost said it was
just part of your part of yourroutine. It's not even something
you question.

Were four months and now five months in, I
go to the gym on Mondays.

What if someone were to say, Well, how could you
How could you think about goingto the gym when all this was
happening? What would be youranswer?

fright? I mean, I think that I was still sort of
in shock mode. So everything Idid was just sort of, I don't
know why I did it. I just didbecause most of the time I
wasn't doing anything. We werejust sitting on the couch. We
were waiting for my husband toget done with work and I felt,
you know, when we first decided,okay, we're just gonna sit here.
We only brought one car, myhusband's working when he's

(24:00):
done, we'll go home. And thenthe aftershock hit and I was
like, Oh, actually, we're not.
We're not going home. I evenimagined being back up in that
building when the earth is stillshaking. And

it sounds like the earthquake which was a huge
disruption to so many things. Inparallel with that you wanted to
at least maintain the thingsthat were a part of your
routine. It's kind of the way myinterpretation right is you've
got this thing that's part ofyour life and who you are and
maybe even helps you cope. Andso you just did it it's as
opposed to an escape. It's athing that you do, right.

Right. I when when I was under the you know, I
did my I went went and did my myworkout. Right and it was
usually takes me a pretty goodtime to get through our current
program like an hour and an hourand a half. And after that hour,

(24:57):
and however many minutes Ireally I see that for the first
time that day, I hadn't beenscared of, you know,
earthquakes, right. I hadn'tbeen thinking about, is the
ground still moving? Or is thatjust in my head? Right? And it
was so nice, right? It wasn'tand stressful, right? Because
working out can be stressful,right. But it was a different

(25:20):
kind of stress. And my body andmy mind needed something
different just for a fewminutes. And I think that that
was a really powerful moment forme to realize, oh, so this is
what working out can be rightnow. Right?

Yeah. Part of your emotional fitness, not just your
physical fitness. Yeah. Thatthat's a wonderful message for
people because I think I think alot of working out in people's
minds is some intense, brutal,beating up of our body that we
don't look forward to. And youknow, you've made it part of

(25:57):
your ritual part of your youknow, there's a phrase that I
hear used occasionally calledvoluntary hardship, the idea of
doing this hard thing, becausethere's a bigger thing that
comes out of it, that'spositive, right? Like the actual
getting the squat done can beextremely intimidating and nerve
racking, right to where youalmost want to back out, and you

(26:20):
just do it, and that createsthis resilience. I mean, I'm
just telling you most of myopinion here, I'm not so much
asking a question, but I'm, I'mgetting that vibe from you. Is
that right?

Definitely.
Yeah, definitely. Well, and, andit wasn't like, I even thought
like, this is gonna make me amore resilient person, like,
let's go to the gym and beawesome today. That is a good
thing to think sometimes, but Ithink it was more, I was able to
recognize in that moment,something helpful, right?

(26:49):
Something sort of necessary forme in so many different ways.
And, and I was grateful to beable to access it.

Hey, this is Philip Pape. And if you feel like
you've put in effort to improveyour health and fitness, but
aren't getting results, I inviteyou to apply for a one on one
coaching to make real progressand get the body you desire.
We'll work together to figureout what's missing so you can
look better, perform better andfeel better. Just go to wits &
weights.com/coaching, to learnabout my program and apply

(27:21):
today. Now back to the episode.
Love it. Yeah, I love it. Andjust so people are clear on the
type of training you're doing.
Can you just quickly tell tellus what one workout looks like?
Right? Okay. So

usually, my workouts consist of, of back
squats, and warming up to athree times five set. Rep so so
15 of whatever that goal weightis that I'm working on that day.
The same thing with either benchpresses or overhead barbell

(27:59):
lifts. And then same thing withdeadlifts. But up to a just a
five. Rep. Excellent.

Yeah, so super simple, right? You're just doing
big compound movements and, andhave made a ton of progress.
Yeah, exactly. Simple andeffective. Not easy. But that's
part of the joy. The benefit ofit is that it's hard, at least
in my opinion, and I think inyours as well. All right, so
let's pivot a little bit. So asyour nutrition coach, I have the

(28:29):
pleasure each week of seeingyour check in, right, you check
in with a forum where you answera bunch of questions. And you're
very detailed in a veryinteresting perspective, is the
way I put it in your form, youknow, different clients have all
different levels of detail theylike to share. And you mentioned
to me that just the act ofwriting down your wins, your
lessons, your roadblocks, and soon are I think I think you've

(28:52):
said their therapeutic. Andthat's just one example. So I
mean, maybe tell me a little bitmore about that. And also how
working with a coach has justbenefited you overall, through
that process during thiscraziness.

Right? So because I think that it would be
really easy for me to have said,you know, Philip, I can't do
this right now. Right? Wehaven't. We haven't really gone
home as a family. We've tried ita couple of times being in back
in our apartment, and then weagain, and we've been traveling

(29:25):
and we have actually movedapartments for a little while
and it would be really easy forme to have just said I can do
this right now. And nobody wouldhave questioned that. I don't
think that you would havequestioned that. You would said
you don't do what you need to dofor you and your family. But I

(29:46):
think I was lucky that Irealized early on that this is
what I needed to do. I think andand like you said one of the
most important things that Ihave done for my my training but
also for my Mental Health was,you know, the kind of check ins
that you require me to do everyweek, not only, like, keep me

(30:06):
accountable, you know, and Iknow I'm gonna have to report to
Philip, you know what happenedthat day when you didn't get
your protein or you know. But Istarted noticing very quickly
that when I checked in the kindsof questions that you asked, you
know, about my sleep, about mytraining, about my digestion,
about my water about, you know,all these things, we're all you

(30:30):
know, every time I filled in anew swear it was earthquake,
earthquake, earthquake,earthquake, earth quake, and it
wasn't hard to realize that, youknow, the earthquake was
affecting all of these areas ofmy life, and that I needed to
process that and checking inwith you and filling out those
questions was just sotherapeutic and really helped me

(30:53):
to, to understand better what Iwas feeling. You know, I had
been through something that wasreally scary. And that was hard
for me to talk about withanybody else, because so many
other people had been throughthings that were way scarier.
Right. I've, besides knowingpeople who who have family
members that didn't make it out,right, I heard a story last week

(31:15):
about some people that werevisiting in the hotel that they
were in, they were afraid theycouldn't, they couldn't get out
their door. And in theirbuilding was like, you know,
crumbling, and it was theaftershock that like shook the
door free, and they were able tokick their door out and get out
of the building. You know, Imean, and so I'm not the one

(31:36):
that's been through the scariestthing. And so sometimes that
can, you know, hold you backfrom really, you know, talking
about the things that were scaryfor you, right, because you
don't want to, you know,diminish anybody else's, you
know, scary stories, orwhatever, or be compared at all.
And this was just for me, rightto take some time and to write

(32:01):
out my feelings, and to be ableto process what I had gone
through and how it was stillimpacting my life. And I'm just
so grateful, I hope that I willalways do something similar to
this check in even if I, if Idon't work with, you know, a
coach or with you forever, Ihope that I will always do

(32:21):
something like that.

Something something like a journal. Yeah,
definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,that's amazing. The comment
about not wanting to compareyourself to others. I think it's
something all of us feel,honestly. And what's interesting
is from an outsider'sperspective, from someone who's
safe over here in the US where Ididn't have to deal with the

(32:43):
earthquakes, I think, bycomparison to me, I'm thinking
this is incredible trauma youhad to go through. And so we
don't, you know, we try not tocompare ourselves, but we do, it
just happens naturally. And I'mglad that you had an outlet and
somebody that could almost lookthrough it in a in a somewhat
cold calculated way. Because,you know, I don't, my

(33:06):
personality isn't one tonecessarily dwell on things. I
think you've learned that bynow. And, you know, even I've
been trying to listen more andlearn how to deal with different
personalities. But I'm not atherapist either. So my mindset
is, let's just take action andmove forward through things. But
at the same time, we have toacknowledge the things. So it's
funny, you mentioned that if, ifyou had said in the checkout,

(33:28):
hey, all this stuff ishappening. So therefore, I'm not
going to do any of this. You'reright, that I would have said
you need to focus on you. Youneed to focus on your family, if
that's what, but at the sametime, I probably still would
have tried some way to motivateyou to do some of this, right.
So all right. Now, what, here'sa couple things, I hope you

(33:49):
don't get a little personal.
This whole thing is personal, ofcourse. But when we started, you
said something to the effect ofyou're a young, healthy,
beautiful mom, but somehowmirrors and pictures don't
always believe you. Okay, and wecan edit this out of you. But,
but I love how you acknowledgedthe health and vibrancy and have
that positive mindset whilerecognizing there's something

(34:12):
that you wanted to change,right? And this whole process is
about change. Life is aboutchange. So how do you feel about
that sentiment now?

Who I think you know, that one is a day at a
time. Or, or just try not tothink too much about it. You
know, I think bulking wasdefinitely the most like
humbling experience that I'vehad to go through. I but at the

(34:42):
same time, what goes so it'ssort of funny, right? Because
for the first time in my life,I'm technically trying to gain
weight, right? But at the sametime, I'm scared of gaining
weight, you know. So it sort ofjust by default need getting on
the scale of much more neutralexperience, right? Because I'm
supposed to be gaining weight.
But if I don't, it's all great.

(35:05):
But if I do, it's okay. Right.
Yeah. So I think that thatbecame more neutral. I think
seeing myself. I mean, I hadlike two things that fit for a
while there. And they weren'tthe most attractive things. And
I kept thinking, Okay, well, Ineed to buy more clothes, but
I'll probably do it from Amazon.

(35:26):
And that'll take me, you know,forever for it to get to me over
here in Turkey. So what's thepoint? They'll be in a cut by
then, you know, or? And so Ijust had forced me to say, but
that's what you're supposed tolook like right now. Right?
You're building muscle under,you know, whatever else is
there? And I don't know, I stilldon't think that I looked in the

(35:50):
mirror and said, Wow, you'resmoking, you know, or anything
like that. But I did know that Iwas doing things that I was
proud of. And I knew that mykids and my husband were proud
of me. And you know, and if I'mhonest, you know, I sort of knew
going into coaching and doing abulk that, well, I'm in Turkey,

(36:12):
and I don't know anyone, youknow, nobody's made. And, but
you know, what, I had familyvisit. And I didn't, I didn't
care, right? They knew I was thegym, they knew that I was happy.
And we had a wonderful time. Andyeah, and I felt healthy and,
you know, strong.

So yeah, I love that you touched on so many
things that we went through,because at the beginning, we had
to have that conversation aboutwhat do we start with in terms
of nutritional periodization. Solet's come phrase we talk about
a lot, which is you don't wantto be in a diet forever, or even
very long. But you also have tospend time the other direction
building muscle, and thatrequires feeding yourself. And I

(36:53):
do have clients where it's likea battle to get them to eat
enough, which, you know, mightseem crazy to certain people,
but it's true. And you're gonnaget there like you recognize it
sounds from your language thatthe physical manifestation on
any given day is kind ofirrelevant. And it's really the
overall progress and processyou're going through, right. And
I saw that in your check inswhen you would start to focus a

(37:16):
lot on your lifts, right? Youfocus on your lifts and said, My
biggest win this week is mysquat went up. And and then our
discussion was, well, that meansyou're getting stronger and
building muscle. And so when thefat loss phase comes, which
you're being patient about anddecided prioritize, in what I'll
say the optimal or mosteffective way, which is to build
muscle first, you're gonnabenefit tremendously from that.

(37:38):
And we just started that, right?
We just started the fat lossphase. So people listening? No.
And maybe we'll have to do afollow up after that. Yeah, so
cool. Now, you also alluded tothe fact that you are proud, and
you made your family proud. Andthat was another comment you had
early on, if I recall that youwanted your kids to see your
hard work pay off. Right. So itsounds like you feel that's

(38:00):
happening.

Right? I'm a musician. And I feel like, I
know the benefits of practicing.
Right. But sometimes I feel likea lot of the crazy things that
I've tried to do to get my bodyto change or to obey or have not
resulted, you know, I felt likeI was working hard. But they

(38:23):
haven't left me with the longterm results that that I felt
like should have come from, youknow, all of that work. And I
wanted them to see me doing hardwork that paid off. Right. And
that work is worth what you putinto it, you know? And yes,

so awesome. So, so a lot has changed then and your
mindset has shifted in thatregard. What about food? Right?
Let's let's just talk food.
we've alluded to a few timeshave your habits. Has your
mindset around food changed? Andhow do you think it's impacted
your progress and your goals?

Definitely. I think before when I was doing my
diets, it was like, well, once Iget down to my goal weight, I'll
be so excited to be there thatit will give me the motivation
to stay and I'll be really ableto be strict. Right? It was like
that's what I was lookingforward to was this life of

(39:23):
deprivation so that I could looka certain way. And now because
we started with a bulk andbecause I was eating so many
fantastic calories. Right? Andyou know, we just moved to a new
country, right? I was not goingto not try the foods, right?

(39:43):
Yes. And have those experiences,you know, being here in a new
country. And, you know, eatingat my higher calories and
building my muscles definitelygave me the flexibility to do
that. And now I know that eventhough I'm not eating as many
calories, and I am going to cutthat I'm not looking forward to

(40:04):
staying at these, you know,calories forever, I'm looking
forward to going back tomaintenance and even to another
bulk. Right, that this shortterm, this is not for a very
long time, it's going to give mesome results that I want. And
then I'm going to go back todoing other things for my body.
And I think that that is, oh,it's just so new. For me.

I love it. So the idea that in the past, when you
thought you were done with thediet, you would then stay at
this let baseline level ofmoderate restriction forever,
versus

admitted that to myself, ever admit, well,
then you're just sentencingyourself to this craziness for
forever, but we don't want toadmit that because we exactly
know I'm going to reach my goal.
If you have to. Right. Yeah,this desperate that you use up
being honest with yourself,really, I think

it's true. And people should ask themselves
that question of, is what I'mdoing today, when I'm done with
it sustainable? Or what am Igoing to do when I'm done with
it, because you know, 95% ofpeople getting all their weight
back and you're you're going,you're going to be in the top 5%
You are, you are already fromthat you know what to do now to
be in that top 5%, where youhave that control. And you're

(41:20):
right, after we're done througha fat loss phase, your calories
are gonna come way up. And youcan do that without gaining
weight, or you can intentionallygain weight, for the right
reasons, right to build muscle.
So it's great. Yeah. Any, werethere any other unexpected
benefits or changes in, inanything in any areas of your
life from this process?

Let's see. I think, you know, going back to
food for just a second, youknow, when we were when we were
there in the earthquake, or onthat day, right, so we were in
this little room, and I toldyou, there was a fridge. And you
know, everybody had been so niceand told my kids like, you know,
feel free to eat the snacks. AndI was watching them, just sort

(42:06):
of like eat snacks and watch TV.
And, again, I found myself inthat position of nobody's gonna
blame you, if you eat one of thefrozen pizzas, right? Like, just
take a break, eat it maintenancetoday, you know, give yourself a
break, right? And I was feelingreally emotional about it. And,

(42:28):
but what something that, that Iwasn't going to take a break on
was tracking, right, because Ididn't want my app to go crazy.
And you know, cut my caloriesbecause I had gained all this
weight without telling it that Ieat and everything. And it's
sort of interesting, becausethis app doesn't punish you for
what you eat. It punishes Well,punishes, you know, quote,

(42:52):
unquote, punishes you for nottracking, right. And so I become
very good at being meticulouslyhonest about what I ate. And so
I went to go put in somethingbefore I ate it. And it was just
that act of inputting data intomy app that moved me from this
emotionally charged place tojust this like logic place,

(43:17):
right? We're just doing math,we're just adding numbers were
and all of a sudden, I was like,Oh, well, in this logical place.
Like, I don't really feel like Icare that much about that pizza,
I brought a protein bar. And itsort of sounds good right now. I
really like chambers, actually.

(43:38):
So um, and I feel like that hashappened. So many times that
because I have these few habits.
They don't control me. Right, Ican choose the time to do
something different. But I thinkthat they informed my these
habits inform my decisions. And,and yeah, bring me back to that

(44:00):
place of logic. Yes. Yeah. Ilove that. We're in a different
place now. And and yeah, it'sjust super helpful. And and then
I get to make better informedchoices.

Yeah, everything. I mean, how are you putting this
all so well, for for thelistener, in the idea that you
can measure you can manage whatyou can measure, right? That's
the classic phrase, you canmanage what you can measure. And
if you think of like finances,right, you if you if you want to
save money for retirement, foryour kids education, and to go
on vacations, you have to have abudget, and you have to track

(44:38):
your money. And we don't saythat's weird, or that's
restrictive, or oh my god that'sgoing to prevent you from doing
what you want to do. We say theopposite. Wow, that allows you
to have all this freedom. Putthe money in different buckets,
to save more or less to decideto invest it. Same thing with
your food as you are creatingthe level of awareness you've
never had before. And if sixmonths a year from now, you say

(44:59):
you know what I'm counting I'mtired of the process of
tracking, you at least have thatingrained skill of knowing
what's in food and how much isin the food and so on. But it's
funny because like, I've beentracking now for several years,
and I still love to do it,because it's a habit. And it
gives me information, you know,and you're right. You just saw
what it takes five minutes outof your day. And now you can

(45:19):
make choices and be flexible.

Yeah, yeah, I sort of I sort of like it. I
feel like I mean, before when Iwas using different apps, I felt
like, oh, but it's just sort oflike this puzzle, you know, this
thing, then where does it fit?
Right? Yes, yes. Yes, so muchfood freedom, not scared of
food. I, I think I'm surprisedby the quantities that I am able

(45:43):
to eat. And that if I just eatthat quantity, and sit with it
for a second that usually I'mable to feel satisfied. Whereas
before, and again, like I'll eatthe thing, right, and put it
into my macros. And I think thatwas my rule for a while, eat
whatever you want, but track it,right? Make sure that it's that

(46:03):
it's in there so that you cansee, right? Oh, I'm not reaching
my goal. Why not? Oh, right.
Because I was 500 calories.

So exactly. That's why we do it. And it's not an
it's not just so people arelistening, you know, it's not
just calories and macros. It'sall the other things that you
like to measure and get feedbackon, right? It's your lifts. It's
how you feel it's your hunger,you know, even our hunger, like
we're in a fat loss phase, ifyou told me three weeks in a
row, that the hunger was just soravenous, and you've done

(46:32):
everything possible to managethat with vegetables and fiber
and water. That's goodinformation to tell us who maybe
we need a break. Right? It'sgood. All right. So I have one
or two final questions. And thefirst one is what advice would
you give to someone who isconsidering hiring a coach, but
maybe hesitant, because we knowthat's there's often a lot of

(46:55):
roadblocks in our mind to doingthat.

Right, because this is a time commitment and a
financial commitment. And so ofcourse, we're going to hesitate,
right. And it's good to do ourresearch and to find somebody
that is going to be a good fit.
But My only regret is that Ididn't start sooner. Right. So I
told you that I decided to waituntil after I got to Turkey. But
I wish that you know the I amgoing to call it trauma, right?

(47:23):
I feel like I sort of get manymoving trauma, right when I have
to leave my students, when Ileave the things that make me
feel like me, it's traumatic,and I gain weight, and I eat all
the things and I get stressedout. And that's what would have
happened this time during theearthquake. If I hadn't had a

(47:44):
coach, if I hadn't been in thisprogram, and writing out my
feelings and tracking the thingsthat were going to help me be
the me that I wanted to be. AndI wish that I had done it when
we were moving. I wish that Ihad gone through all of that
with a coach and with theinformation that I have now. And

(48:04):
I didn't and I gained, I don'tknow, 1015 pounds, just in the
process, and sure are movingprocesses are long, because we
have to move this stuff here.
And then we move this stuff tostorage and then we you know,
sell the things and we you know,I mean, moving to another
country is is a process. Butyeah, it did not look beautiful

(48:31):
at the end. And I I've learnedsome tricks to be kind to
myself. And you know, we we hada good time getting to Turkey.
But I think I would have comeout better on the other side if
I'd had to coach.

Now imagine if you hadn't ever gotten a coach.
That's what I want you to thinkabout. Right? So because the
past is the past, but you'reright. If people are listening,
and they're wondering, when'sthe best time, there's never a
best time. So now's the besttime to go do it, if that's
something you need. Alright, soI do ask this final question of
all guests. And it maybe is atricky one, maybe not. And that

(49:05):
is what one question. Did youwish I had to ask? And what is
your answer?

All right. So I think when I listen to podcasts,
I'm always looking for thetakeaways. So I guess I would
like to, you know, talk aboutthe things that I would hope
that people would be able totake away from this podcast. So
I think that that yeah, thefirst one is that I need people

(49:37):
to make sure that theyunderstand that I wasn't, you
know, persevering through theearthquake to be some sort of,
you know, baddie, right. I'm notI was doing it to prove anything
necessarily. There arelegitimate times when we need to
take breaks in our life, right,where we need to focus more on
different different things andthe But the thing was, Is that

(50:01):
Yeah, after making my my prosand cons list, oh, I have to
tell you about the pros and conslist. Okay, so one day I came
in, this was before theearthquake I came in, and I told
my kids, I just don't I wasn'teven telling them I was just,
you know, telling the universe,oh, I do not want to go to the
gym. And my 10 year old,brilliant, 10 year old that she
is. She looks at me. And shesays, Well, mom make a pros and

(50:24):
cons list, right? The only conis that you don't want to do it.
And everything else is a pro.
True. And of course, I was gonnago to the gym that day. And I
did go to the gym that day. Butthat's what I had to do after
the earthquake, right? I had tomake a pros and cons list,
right? Did I need to go to thegym that day? Or did I need to
stay home and do something elseto decompress. And when I

(50:45):
realized that, it was all prosfor going to the gym, I went to
the gym. And when I had todecide if I was going to track
that day, did a pros and conslist. And when it was all pros,
then I tracked that day. And soyeah, this isn't about how
during an earthquake, you haveto, you know, be one way or the

(51:07):
other. It's about make your prosand cons list, right? If this is
something, sitting your life,then do something good for
yourself and keep going with,you know, the goals that are
benefiting your life.

And there's a common theme there that I can
take away from that. And that isthat you are in control. And you
are thinking ahead. Right. Andthat's kind of a common theme
with everything we do isplanning ahead. So even in the
worst of times, you at leasttook a few minutes to think
about it and determine whatserve you and your family most
even if the end decision wassomething different from your
normal routine. Yeah,

well, and like I said, I think before, you
know, I was sort of on autopilotthat day, right? I feel blessed
that I had a habit of tracking,right. What I didn't have that
day was I was not in a habit ofa cut, right, we had just barely
gone into my cat. And I mean, itwas like day five, or something

(52:06):
of my gut. I was not, you know,used to these lower calories
yet. But what I was used to wastracking. And so when I went and
put it into my, my macros, I wasable to see oh, I can do
something right now thatbenefits me. That's a pro,
right? I went to the gym. And itwas after I went to the gym that

(52:27):
I was able to say, I actuallyfelt really good to think about
something else besides whetheror not the earth is shaky under
my feet. And so So I was gladthat I had those moments of
information that helped me, youknow, inform my pros and cons
list. But yeah, moving forward,I was able to make a pros and

(52:48):
cons list. And some days, youknow, we were traveling to
Greece. And we got into, youknow, Istanbul, which is at the
top of Turkey. We live at thebottom of Turkey where the
earthquakes happen. And we wereat the top of Turkey getting
ready to cross the border thenext day, it was late and it
would have been absolutelyludicrous for me to look for a
gym at that point. Exactly.
Suit, the pros and cons list. Itwas a con that day I didn't do

(53:12):
it. But what I did do was reachout to my coach and he gave me
some bodyweight exercises andreminded me that missing one day
of exercise was not going to youknow, disappear all my muscles
and

exactly so it's this is the balance and
sustainability we're talkingabout. All right. These are
great. I think we I mean therewere a ton of takeaways I'm sure
people are gonna get from this.
And for those listening orwatching Heather is in our
community in the Wits & WeightsFacebook community, so if you
want to reach out to her thereshe I'm sure she'd be happy to
answer questions or say hello.
And if you're not in thecommunity, it's free. Just look

(53:48):
it up and join. And Heather.
Most of all, I'm very gratefulthat you decided to do this and
come on the show.

Thank you, Philip. Yeah, it was a pleasure.

Thanks for listening to the show. Before
you go, I have a quick favoriteask. If you enjoy the podcast,
let me know by leaving a fivestar review in Apple podcasts
and telling others about theshow. Thanks again for joining
me Philip Pape in this episodeof Wits & Weights. I'll see you
next time and stay strong.

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Ep 51: Even an Earthquake Didn't Stop This Wife and Mother from Training

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