March 12, 2025 • 45 mins
Rediscovering Humanity in Business with Amy Anderson
🌟 What can a turtle teach us about teamwork? Dive into this captivating conversation with Amy Anderson, co-founder of Wild Coffee Marketing, as she shares her transformative journey from working with iconic brands like Calvin Klein to building her own values-driven company. Amy’s story is a masterclass in resilience, leadership, and creating a thriving workplace culture that values people over profits.
🧠 Key Takeaways from Amy’s Insightful Leadership Journey:
- 🐢 Teamwork Lessons from a Turtle: Learn the surprising parallels between nature and team dynamics.
- 🛠️ Building Workplace Belonging: Discover how workplace satisfaction directly impacts personal fulfillment.
- 🤝 The Humanity Factor: Why understanding individual motivations is the key to fostering trust and collaboration.
💻 Mastering Remote Work: Amy’s Innovative Strategies
- 🎭 "Mullet Meetings" & On-Camera Culture: Injecting humor and adaptability into virtual team management.
- 🌟 Psychological Safety: How creating a supportive environment helps Gen Z thrive at work.
- 🗣️ Icebreakers & Real-Time Feedback: Tools to transform team dynamics and foster genuine connections.
🔑 Why You’ll Love This Episode:
Amy’s holistic approach to leadership and teamwork goes beyond traditional strategies. By recognizing the humanity in every team member and valuing diverse interests, she shows how to build connections that inspire loyalty, creativity, and growth.
🎧 Tune in now to unlock the magic of belonging in the workplace!
👉 Connect with Amy Anderson
Explore more about Amy and her values-driven marketing company, Wild Coffee Marketing. Let’s continue the conversation and elevate workplace culture together!
https://wildcoffeemarketing.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Audra (00:00):
Welcome in everyone and thank you so much for joining me
again this week.
This week, I am so excited foryou to meet my guest and listen
in on this amazing andincredibly timely topic.
My guest this week is AmyAnderson, and she is the widely
respected and creative industryleader with more than 25 years
(00:20):
of experience at brands likeCalvin Klein Seventeen and the
New York Times Digital.
She is the co-founder of WildCoffee Marketing and she focuses
on transforming businessesthrough a diverse set of
disciplines and tailor-madeteams.
It is my pleasure and my honorto introduce to you Amy.
Amy, thank you so much forbeing here and welcome to the
(00:41):
show.
Thank you so much for having me, audra.
I am so excited for you to behere because we're going to talk
about something that should beobvious but isn't.
It's something that I thinkwe've lost and unfortunately,
it's one of the things that welost through the pandemic I
think it was exasperated throughthe pandemic, which is we've
(01:07):
lost our a little bit of oursense of humanity, and I think
part of that is because we wereseparated for so long and you
created an entire organizationbuilt on that foundation of
supporting one another, seeingeach other in our humanity and
(01:30):
just remembering that we are all, at our core, human and we are
important.
You built an entireorganization on that very
principle, not only with youremployees, but with all of your
clients that you support.
But what I want to talk aboutis why you built it and how you
(01:54):
built it.
So let's start there as towho's Amy and why you had to
build Wild Coffee in the firstplace.
Amy (02:03):
Well, thank you so much again for having me.
I'm excited to talk to youabout that.
You know I often tell mychildren I have two sons now 17
and 20 years old that we don'tlearn from the things we do
right and we don't learn fromthe good things always that
happen around us.
It's, you know, there's somegrowth through the struggle and
actually my son in boardingschool had to do a sermon two
(02:27):
weeks ago as his final projectand his sermon was called the
Beauty in the Struggle and I'mso glad that I have these boys
who sort of see the beauty inwhat has been hard for us and
for me.
I started my marketing career inthe early 90s.
There was a recession back then.
We had to sort of take what wecould get at that point and
(02:48):
there weren't a lot of options.
And I had moved to New YorkCity and was working at some big
brands during a time when itwasn't the friendliest
environment, especially forwomen.
You know, sort of sensitivity,training, how we relate to each
other in the workplace, rulesthat go around that really did
not evolve.
I don't remember doing thattraining until the early 2000s,
(03:11):
2003,.
2004 was the first time I wasintroduced to concepts about
seeing people for what theybring into a work environment
and relating to them in a waythat works for them too.
So when I created, I'd spent 30,I've spent 30 years now in
marketing, and most of thosewere in big corporations on the
(03:31):
client side, and so I worked inin-house marketing departments
and teams and it was really achallenge to relate to a lot of
my peers and situations backthen Coming up in my 20s not a
lot of mentorship environmentsin New York City that were a
little rough around the edgeswith my dynamics with other
folks.
So when it came to my getting adivorce in my mid-40s,
(03:57):
reentering the workforce andknowing that in order to be with
my sons, I really needed tocreate my own company and I was
fortunate enough to have myparents as angel investors and
said we will cover your basicliving expenses for 12 months,
go see what you can do.
And I started a consultingpractice in marketing.
(04:17):
While I was writing my businessplan, there was a tree plant
native to South Florida calledWild Coffee that was growing
outside my window.
That was super vibrant, had tokeep cutting it back and I
thought it was an incrediblemetaphor for what I was trying
to create for both myself andfor my clients.
So Wild Coffee was born out ofmy wanting to have some
(04:37):
flexibility for my children andalso my wanting to deliver
really, really good marketingstrategy for clients.
But to create that, you have tobring people on board and to
scale that.
And that is when I realized,well, how do you create an
organization that's not built onsome fundamental values?
And that's where sort of thisculture piece started, and I
(05:01):
think I was fortunate that Istarted that from the beginning
and have evolved it intosomething that I find powerful.
Audra (05:09):
Isn't that interesting that, like all the great
inventions in history, it wasborn out of necessity, and, as
we are coming to find out, a lotof the great inventions that
were born out of necessity werecreated by women.
Yes, and it was built on thesestrong principles, these strong
(05:33):
needs to create goodness in theworld, respectability, and that
you wanted to create a betterenvironment for yourself, for
your sons and for your clientsthat they could thrive in,
because I think that that's whatpeople are craving.
People are hungry for it,people are lacking.
(05:57):
That's that void that peopleare searching for.
Now.
They're like there's somethingmissing.
What, what?
Amy (06:06):
belonging thing.
Well, belonging is is very highon the hierarchy of needs.
Yes, and I also see that peoplebring work home and so if you
are coming and working at wildcoffee, working with my business
partner, solo and me, and youare going home unhappy, then
then I saw that as impactingchildren, impacting spouses and
(06:29):
partners, friends and neighbors,right.
So when we're bringing work outinto our lives, it's a ripple
effect of how people are treated, and I don't think people on
the turnover front, I don'tthink they leave jobs, I think
they leave leaders and thephilosophy and the way of being
of a leader.
I've seen it my entire careertrickles down through an entire
(06:51):
organization.
So I think, as business leaders, we have to look and say what
do we want to trickle down?
It's one thing to have a missionand vision right.
It's another thing to havevalues and I think that values
piece is very, very importantbecause you can hire new team
members, you can retain andreward and recognize team
members and in some cases youmay need to cycle a team member
(07:14):
or transition them away from theorganization because they are
not a good fit.
And if you can't bring kindnessand compassion and seeing your
team members, your colleagues,your leaders, as whole people,
then I don't think it's going tobe a great experience for
anybody.
I don't see them as employees.
I don't see them as workers.
Anyway, they are people whodecided to take a chance on me
(07:37):
and on this concept I created,and I value that quite a bit.
Audra (07:41):
What are the values that are the non-negotiables that
have made Wild Coffee what it istoday, and it's been in
existence now 15?
Amy (07:51):
years we had toddlers when we met at a company, and now
his two have graduated fromcollege and minor in college.
So the first one is we are onewith our partners in each other,
and that's you know.
A lot of companies say thatwe're not just partners, we're
(08:14):
in this together, and I thinkthat got overplayed during COVID
.
Certainly right, we're in thistogether.
It's the way I've always lived.
That, because it's also anhonor for me that a client comes
to us with a problem that weneed to solve.
And so I actually had a partnerwe work quite a bit with in the
private equity space.
Say to me last week you are nota partner who is looking for
(08:36):
your next invoice from us, whicha lot of them do.
You are looking to solve theproblems and be accountable for
them.
And so that was reallyinteresting perspective.
I'm thinking, oh my gosh, it'sworking, this value of we truly
are one together, solvingproblems, creating something
great and scaling something.
And I'm going to look after youand you are going to look after
(08:59):
the business and our clients.
And I think if the spirit ofbusiness leadership is based on
compassion, based on clarity,candor, with feedback, respect,
then you model that.
It's like parenting.
I learned very young.
My children went to a ReggioEmilia preschool and the
director of that school in Miami, at La Tellier, said to me what
(09:23):
do you think the experience islike as a toddler to just be
whisked up by somebody, likeyour whole body gets lifted up
in the air with no warning.
That is not respectful to asmall child, to just whisk them
up like that.
And I was thinking, oh so fromthe time my children were little
, I've been trying to modelrespect and communication and
I've gotten that back.
(09:43):
And I think the same with theteam.
When I model that to them, theymodel it back and to each other
, which is the important part.
Audra (09:51):
And this isn't easy to do.
I mean, your business is amarketing and communications
business and, as consumers onthe other side, we're used to
being sold to, and you're doingthis a completely different way.
You're doing this in a modelthat is one that is based on
(10:12):
honesty and communication.
How do you manage this?
Amy (10:27):
that you have right.
We're growing at about 30, 35%per year and that means the
company's doubling every twoyears.
We made the Inc 5000 list lastyear.
But how do you scale a companyand add value to people without
stressing the organization toomuch?
Because if you stress theorganization too much, it has
impact on the people and thenyou can't deliver for clients.
So I think the transparencyit's that you know sort of we
are one with our clients.
It's that transparency andcommunication where we can't
(10:49):
solve this or it's going to takeus longer than we thought, and
that trust that we establishupfront in this very
consultative approach allows usthat, and we really.
But you have to act it everyday, right.
You can't just put values onthe wall and then expect them to
happen.
You have to live it.
And so when you're living thisconsultative approach in a sales
(11:10):
cycle and then you startworking with a client, that
needs to stay consistent, right.
Audra (11:16):
And this is I mean, what we're talking about is business
, but this is translating intotheir lives too.
This is business concepts, thisis consultative concepts, but
this is translating into theirlives, into your employees'
lives.
You can't live this andseparate the two.
(11:38):
It just doesn't work.
It has to translate into whatthey're doing personally too.
It just they can't existotherwise.
Amy (11:50):
Well, and I think especially this Wild Coffee has
been a remote company for thelast six years.
So when COVID hit, I said, holdmy beer, I've got this.
You know been doing thisalready for three years.
But it requires a differentapproach and connectedness, not
just for accountability purposes.
Right, you can build businessprocess in.
You know we share what we didat the end of every day and part
(12:11):
of our project managementsoftware.
I start my morning with mycoffee and read what everybody
has going on.
There's information sharing.
There's accountability.
We track time.
We're a consulting firm.
That's what I sell.
But on Fridays in our teammeeting we actually do an
icebreaker with 20 people.
What is your best businessmoment of the week?
What is your best personalmoment of the week?
(12:33):
Because I want to know whatlights you up about your work,
what do you love, what are youproud of and I'm not surprised
anymore I was at first how oftenit's about the collaboration.
They love it.
These guys like each other,they support each other.
The right energy is going intothe dynamic, so they love the
collaboration between teammembers.
Then, personally, I want to knowwhat are your plans this
(12:55):
weekend.
You know what happened in yourlife.
What milestones did your familyhit?
What are you excited about?
I know now that I have a newteam member, recent college
graduate, one year out of school, our most sort of unseasoned
team member who shows a greatdeal of poise.
She loves the Florida Panthers.
How would I know that withoutasking?
(13:15):
So I think that theconnectedness that you
intentionally find with the teammembers who have honored you by
taking a chance on you,especially in a small company
like mine and I'm taking achance on them that
connectedness has to beintentional because we don't
have the benefit of the watercooler chat right.
Audra (13:35):
So you actually are making an investment in knowing
who they are.
Amy (13:42):
Yes, because how do you lead people you don't know?
Because you need to figure out,like what's your currency?
Is it recognition andacknowledgement?
Is it money?
Is it responsibility?
Is it learning?
And I think we all in businessneed to ask ourselves you know
even what our own currency is.
Mine was always moreresponsibility.
I wanted to be elevated in acorporate environment.
(14:02):
You know, that felt really goodto me because it meant that I
did a good job.
For some of my guys, it'svacation, it's BTO.
Audra (14:11):
Oh, what a concept Get to know each other and find out
what's important to eachindividual.
Shocking, because what might beimportant to one person may be
very different to what'simportant to the other person,
because that's where you findout where their motivation is
Right and that connectioncreates better work dynamic.
Amy (14:33):
If you know, we don't ask why did this happen?
Or if there's a mistake thatcomes up, we say, hey, what's
going on?
You know, is there somethinggoing on Like, do we need, like,
how can I help you, how can Isupport you?
It's understanding, causation,and not ever in a reprimand
situation, because if there's apattern of mistakes or
(14:54):
something's happening, I'd liketo know what I can do to
mitigate that.
But I really care.
You know I think you and I mayhave spoken about this in our
pre-call that love and businessI don't think are mutually
exclusive.
There have been team memberswho have worked side by side
with me for five years.
How do I not have thosefeelings?
(15:16):
It's almost impossible,especially if you're building
(15:40):
trust with that person,especially if you're remote.
There's no way, because youhave to work wrong with going
and saying, hey, how's yourweekend?
Did you guys have a good one?
How was your daughter'sbirthday celebration this
weekend, or how did that go?
They tell me things on Fridayat our team meeting.
I can check in on Monday andask how it went.
We have this joke that I'malways.
You know, the nurturing part ofmy leadership is asking people
to take Ubers, right.
(16:01):
So, especially since I have ahigh concentration of team
members in Miami and they'regoing out and they're going to
music festivals and there'salways a hey guys, take an Uber,
have a great weekend.
Or saying thank you, you know,for all the great work this week
.
I am grateful for that.
But I think you know there's aprocess of dehumanization going
on in our culture.
I mean, you mentioned theseparation.
(16:23):
It's politically motivated insome ways to dehumanize a group,
to gain control over them ormake people fear them.
I also think the separation atwork.
You know what is the impact onus that we don't see each other
face to face.
I don't know that Zoom andMicrosoft Teams create the same
togetherness, you know.
So what can we do in this sortof flat world to create a
(16:48):
dynamic that means that whenpeople go home to their families
at night they feel good?
Audra (16:52):
Ask them, about them, and get to know them a little
bit, rather than these voices onthe other side of the screen.
Or, heaven forbid, if you getbrave enough, turn on your
cameras.
Amy (17:06):
Oh so we're an on-camera culture, audra, isn't that
interesting?
So we explain to folks that itis important for us to feel
connected and to be present whenwe are communicating with
clients especially, and witheach other.
But we are an on-camera culture.
But we are an on-camera culture.
If you need to step away fromyour desk, please, by all means.
You know things happen.
(17:32):
Doorbell rings, dogs bark.
You know you need to step awayfor a moment.
In my case, it's my 92nd cup ofcoffee.
You may step away, of course,but we're on camera.
I'm looking.
You know, when we're talking toclients, when I'm in a team
meeting, I'm looking to seepeople's body language, their
facial expressions, what arethey responding to.
Plus, when I'm in a teammeeting and there are six, seven
people, 20 people in the casewith my team, you know I can
(17:54):
tell if somebody would like tosay something or add, I can look
at their body language andinclude them in a conversation.
I mean, you have to read theroom still, even though we're
just seeing each other'sshoulders and heads, you know.
Audra (18:05):
So everybody is.
I heard this expression.
I just heard this expressionFriday is a mullet meeting.
I had never heard thisexpression before, which means
that they're dressed up from thewaist up and it's pajamas from
the waist down.
I'd never heard that before andI thought, okay, yeah, that's
the way.
Yeah, they're dressed for amullet meeting, which you know,
(18:30):
whichever way works worksExactly.
Amy (18:32):
All the more reason to turn off your camera if you're
going to step away for a second,you know for sure.
But I think that even you knowwhen we talk about seeing people
as whole people, you know Istill do expect presence in
meetings with clients.
So it's fine with me if youhave never worn shoes in six
years or you're in pajamas onthe bottom, but we do need to
(18:56):
bring something and I oftentimes, when I'm presenting branding
projects, things like that, Iwear certain colors.
So I will often wear red just,or a really deep blue, because
I'm trying to hold people'sattention on a flat screen.
You know when before I could goin and sort of evangelize and
really sort of bring the energyinto the room and stand.
(19:17):
I'm still doing some of thatwork, for sure.
Now I'm traveling and gettingin front of clients.
I was in front of 50franchisees with a West Coast
pizza chain two weeks ago, butit's harder.
It's harder and I also thinkit's harder to connect with your
remote team members.
Audra (19:36):
So what is your intention behind it?
What are you going to do?
Because you can't.
It's harder to read and feelbody language when your screen's
away.
Yes, and it's also harder foryour team members to know about
accountability as a leader, andyou explained something to me
that has just stayed with mefrom the moment that we met,
which was this concept of flipthe turtle of Flip the Turtle,
(20:15):
because it takes theaccountability on you as the
leader and does not put theblame on anybody else.
Amy (20:18):
And do you mind explaining to everybody what Flip the
Turtle means?
Thinking about this concept ofcollaboration, cooperation and
kindness?
Everyone who joins our team ourinterns, just started last
Tuesday.
Wild coffee is a culture ofkindness and everyone you
encounter you're going to have aconsistent experience because
at a baseline, they will be kindto you.
(20:40):
We are in real trouble when GenZ is coming up and they don't
feel psychologically safe andthey're used to comparing
everything on social media andthey're terrified to innovate.
And I do believe there's anarticle in the Wall Street
Journal last year.
I do think there will be someimpacts from this.
So it made the psychologicallysafe environment even more
important to me.
I need their brains, I needtheir ideas.
(21:02):
I think they're brilliant, butthey need to feel safe to do
that.
So I had seen a video of aturtle on its back and had a
little help from my friends,from Bob Seger was playing and
all the other turtles go runningup to this turtle on its back
and work together to flip itback over, and I said, oh, this
is it, this is what I'm tryingto capture for these guys and
(21:25):
how I believe they are.
This is it.
This is what I'm trying tocapture for these guys and how I
believe they are.
So I'm in the meeting and I'mdoing my evangelizing and sort
of talking I think we werewrapping it up, actually at that
point and I went to click thelink in the video that I had
tested, I promise, and it was ina Google slide and it didn't
play.
And I was so embarrassedbecause Audra, too, is a
business leader Like I don'tever want, in this digital first
(21:45):
world, to be seen as non-techsavvy.
So I was horrified and theyknow this about me right and
four people came running to thefront of the room to help me,
not even knowing what the videowas.
And what they demonstrated wasthis flip the turtle concept
which was in the video, which iswhat I was trying to show them.
I tried not to get emotionalabout it in front of everyone,
(22:09):
but they completely personifiedthe spirit of a cooperation
collaboration, no questionsasked.
You run to the turtle and youflip it, and so it has permeated
, it resonated with them, itmade sense and they got to see
it live, which reinforced thepoint I was trying to make, but
it has now permeated ourvernacular.
(22:29):
We'll be doing some planningsessions.
We will assign three newclients in a week.
We're scaling.
When you grow at 30% a year, itis no small feat for the team
that is there and they said youguys, we're going to have to
really flip the turtle a lotnext week, and so I know that
they get it and it's somethingthat I meet with new employees,
(22:49):
new team members, their firstday and we talk about Flip the
Turtles.
So from day one I share thatwith them.
Audra (22:57):
It's just such this beautiful visualization for me
that it's like I said, there isno finger pointing.
You, as the leader, have takenaccountability for this and you
have said we are all in, itdoesn't matter what went wrong,
(23:18):
it doesn't matter who didn'tflip the switch right, it does
not matter, it doesn't matterwhich one of us is on their back
, we all rush in, we all helpput that person back on their
feet, we fix it and we move on.
Yep, that is an amazing culture, because there's learning
(23:42):
opportunities for everybody.
There is no failure, and it is.
We learned from it.
We're not pointing fingers,we're not blaming, we're fixing
it and we're moving on, andnobody, especially the client,
is the wiser Right.
And there's no shame, there'sno nothing.
Amy (24:04):
You know how many mistakes I've made in my life.
I mean, I see my life as aseries of mistakes from which I
learned and grew, and I havemade mistakes in work.
I look back on my career andtry not to judge myself too
harshly over just how unpreparedI was at certain times.
(24:24):
I had fear right.
I didn't know how tointernalize and problem solve
very well.
I was in environments where Ifelt wildly intimidated.
You know when I talk about thatperiod in New York, and so I
think now you know there's noshame in anything.
It's like if you have a patternof mistakes, let's address the
(24:48):
underlying cause and how we cansupport that.
If there and oftentimes a lotcan be addressed in process, if
you create some more predictableprocess of people to follow,
it's not the Wild West.
You know we use EOSEntrepreneurial Operating System
to run our company, you know soyou can get process and
infrastructure in place.
And then it's the people,dynamics of people rushing to
(25:11):
help each other.
And I see it every day Even theproof rating and QA system for
work that goes to clients goesthrough a proofing channel and
people can't wait to jump on it.
Hey, can somebody outside of mypod.
It's sort of a coffee thingthat we have, but we have
consulting teams and pods andthey'll be like I need somebody
outside the pod to review this.
(25:31):
I see them jump on it.
You know people love to helpeach other and if that is just
there because it's part of thefabric of a group of people,
then it doesn't guarantee but itmakes it very likely that
people will have a really goodexperience working with you.
And I feel like, as businessleaders, owners, people who work
(25:52):
with clients isn't that what weall want to create?
So that it's just fun when youwork with a group.
That's just a blast andeveryone's kind like works great
.
Audra (26:04):
We, as as gen xers because you are also a gen xer
we have not.
We have not done a great job ofteaching work to be fun.
We have not because we weren'ttaught that work was fun, work
was work.
We were not taught that workwas fun and and I don't think
(26:26):
that we instilled that too muchin our kids I think that we did
a better job of teaching them tochase things that set their
souls on fire, but I don't thinkthat we taught them how to
incorporate fun and passion intowhat they do.
That's why I think that theseyounger generations are doing a
(26:46):
much better job at it than weare.
But to your point, these GenZers feel everything, yes,
everything.
I see this in my daughter, andshe was in college in the middle
of lockdown.
I refer to it as ZoomUniversity.
(27:07):
She was upstairs in class onher computer and I see the
effects.
Now and now that she's in theworking world, she's graduated
from university and I see it.
I see the effects.
Every single comment,everything affects her so deeply
(27:33):
and I worry, and I see theenvironment that you're creating
.
I'm thinking we need more ofthat.
Amy (27:42):
Right, I don't think there's anything wrong with
psychological safety in theworkplace, right I?
Audra (27:46):
don't think there's anything wrong with
psychological safety in theworkplace.
Amy (28:01):
No, and what you're creating.
We need to make and to be tiedto something greater and
meaningful, and I think that'samazing.
I think we just automaticallygrinded and didn't really pay.
I spent my entire 20s in NewYork City just sort of doing
that.
I think I don't believe inwork-life balance as much as
work-life harmony.
I think balance is a pressureword.
(28:22):
I don't even know what thatmeans.
Life is not a scale.
There are going to be timesthat work sort of integrates
into your life better than othertimes and the key as business
leaders is to be able to flowwith the business needs and the
people needs and to balance allof those.
I know someone on my teamrecently went through a move and
(28:42):
I'm watching because I knowwhat a big deal that is.
We had a baby born last Auguston the team.
We had one born a year ago,January.
We have a wedding in September.
So there are people goingthrough.
There are people whose parentsare not doing well health-wise.
So the key is to know them soyou can look at the needs of the
(29:03):
business, look at the needs ofthe team and just be there,
because we're not all firing at100%, 80% all the time.
It's like in a relationshipwhen you say I've got 20 today,
can you have the other 80?
And just to be clear about that.
So I think it's important towatch your team and to
understand sort of where theyare in their life cycle and what
they're experiencing, Becausesometimes they may need to back
(29:26):
off a little bit to be well.
So since we can't.
Audra (29:29):
There's a lot of us that desire to have what you've
created, but can't createsomething from scratch.
But maybe we can influencesomething from the inside out.
How would you give leadersguidance in order to do that,
Because it only takes one personto make positivity contagious.
(29:52):
How do we do that?
And it doesn't have to bedaunting.
Amy (29:57):
No, I even think icebreakers in meetings.
Why not?
You know, why should I?
Just, why not do an icebreakerand be like, okay, sometimes you
will say best business, firstconcert or first album you ever
owned, and I mean what we learnabout people's music tastes,
(30:18):
what concerts they've been to,what experiences they've had.
I think that matters.
So I think you can start withjust a meeting format and figure
out how to mix things up sothat people feel seen and known
and interested in you know,rather than saying okay, it's
302, blah, blah, blah, and justdive right in when you have the
(30:40):
space to do that and theintention is I see you, I would
like to know you, I would liketo understand you so that we can
work well together and yourexperience is good.
You know, I'm sorry, go ahead.
So I think it's a small thingright.
It doesn't mean you have to allof a sudden have new values for
your company and put thisstructure in place and come up
(31:00):
with a flip the turtle conceptor anything like that.
It's really just knowing themand making that intentional when
you interact.
Audra (31:08):
And what I was going to say is that I never thought
about doing that internally formy team, but I think I might now
.
What I have done in the pastwhen I would do presentations
externally for potential clientsis everybody, when everybody
joins a virtual meeting, it'salways this weird kind of
(31:33):
uncomfortable, awkward chit chatand it always seems to be about
the weather, which I hate.
What I started to do is I wouldput a question, a really
bizarre question, out on thescreen and some of the questions
would be like pie or cake.
I would put questions out likethat and then pie or cake, and
(31:58):
why, and what's your favoriteStuff?
Like that.
Just because I wanted to try andbreak up the monotony, because
when you're trying to present toa client, no one thinks that
you're going to ask them whichone is your favorite pie or cake
and which.
Because you know you'rerespectable, you're trying to,
you know, present seriousmaterial.
(32:20):
But I just was tired of askingor talking about the weather, so
I wanted to break it up.
I never dawned on me to do thesame for my team.
Amy (32:32):
So this is brilliant.
Oh, it's so interesting.
Yeah, no, it's so interestingand really it gets, I think, on
a client like external meeting.
It gets people in the mindsetof that you're listening to them
Right.
People in the mindset of thatyou're listening to them right
and that the whole purpose.
You know we're often presentingclient information but that
exchange is really important andit's hey, I'm listening With
(32:54):
your team.
It's hey, I see you and I knowyou and I'd like to know more so
that I can understand there andbe there for you better.
You know, when it's just aboutthe work and this is like my
style as a leader and these aremy business objectives and
you're here to meet my businessobjectives I feel like that's
like 30% of the equation.
There's this whole other rightwhich is let's be in an
(33:19):
environment where I can have,you can bring your best and you
can be happy and then gointeract with the world in a way
that's a bit more positive andyou can be happy and then go
interact with the world in a waythat's a bit more positive and
it's easy.
Audra (33:34):
And I love this, I love that it's so easy, and it still
can be professional and fun atthe same time.
I just I love what you'vecreated.
I love that you've createdsomething that we can emulate
and it not be hard and not be,and not us feel any less
ourselves, but still even beeven more human.
Amy (33:56):
Right.
Well, I've been environmentswhere I've had a boss, a hiring
manager say to me do you playgolf?
Because that's where a lot ofour business is done.
And I was a tennis player, nota golfer, right.
And there just have been somany times where I have felt
excluded from this.
So you don't have to benaturally positive as I am I
(34:16):
mean, I was just born this way.
I think you could just beinterested, right, you know,
just to show interest in yourteam and people around you is
very you know.
I tell my children that all thetime.
Please, please, when youencounter people, make sure they
feel better after they leftyour presence than they did when
you entered it.
And the way you can do that isasking questions.
(34:39):
It makes a better dynamic, itshows that you're interested, it
gives them something to talkabout, it's disarming in a
positive way.
So if we ask those questions,hey, like, would love, like,
what's been your best personalmoment of the month?
We do it for the quarter.
When we're doing businessreviews quarterly, what was your
best of the quarter?
What do you think that youcould have done differently, or
(35:03):
what didn't go your way thisquarter, you know, and then
grade it on a scale of one to 10.
How is this quarter for you?
And we do that also in our teammember reviews.
Every 90 days, we review theteam in a way that asks their
energy level on a scale of oneto 10.
Where are you?
Where are you?
And we gauge from quarter toquarter.
Did you go from an eight to a10, a nine, and if you're not a
(35:24):
10, how can I help you?
What do you need to get to a 10?
What is your energy?
And we show that we care.
If you're at a six, I'mconcerned.
If you're at a 10 every quarter, either I've done something
magically right together withyou, or you're not telling me
the truth, but I think that'simportant to ask them how's your
(35:46):
energy this quarter?
How'd you do?
What do you think Not?
Hey, I'm going to give youfeedback.
Remember Audra annualperformance reviews?
Do you remember that worldwhere you I'd sit there and be
like wait?
Did you, did you withhold thatfeedback from me for 12 months,
when you could have told me inreal time that I had an area to
improve, an opportunity toimprove?
(36:08):
We give real-time feedback.
That's the candor and theclarity that shows you care and
you can do something when ithappened Real-time Real-time.
Audra (36:21):
You can't go back 12 months and fix something.
Tell me now.
I'm happy to fix it right now.
Yes, I can't.
Amy (36:31):
I don't have the time machine.
Yeah, exactly that honors peoplewhen you say, hey, I saw this
happen and I think there's anopportunity for us.
You're doing X, y and Z reallywell.
I think there's an opportunityfor this to be better.
And let me just sort of giveyou some guidance and some
advice on how I would do that orhow I'd like to see it happen
(36:52):
in real time.
So then when you're checking inquarterly, you're setting goals
for the quarter.
There's a section that says Iwant to do more of that.
They fill in.
I want to do less of things Ilove, things I don't love.
Because I want to know and Iknow who doesn't like math and
PowerPoints on my team.
It's another way to get to knowthem right Is to ask what do
you like doing?
(37:12):
What do you not like doing?
I think they should have a sayit's okay to not like certain
elements of your job because youdon't feel good at that.
It also shows an area todevelop them, an area to focus
on.
But you have to ask.
You know it comes back to thosequestions.
Audra (37:24):
You know I love what you've built.
I really love what you builtBecause I have said often on my
show that corporate America wasnot built for women, because it
wasn't built by women, becauseit didn't consider something
other than what the environmentwas at the time, and it hasn't
(37:54):
changed much.
You built an environment thatconsidered everybody, didn't
necessarily assign a gender toit, it just considered the
humanity of it, and I thinkthat's what corporate America is
missing.
It's not necessarily missingremembering a gender, it's
(38:19):
missing the humanity, and Ithink that that's what you
remembered and got right.
That's what you figured out.
Amy (38:36):
Thank you for saying that and for that acknowledgement.
We are just moving in the worldin a way, that sort of is with
the flow of life and notfighting against it, which is to
create a set of rules tosqueeze work and productivity
out of human beings.
It's really sort of being insomething because we have to
(38:57):
work and most of us do, right,audra I mean, we have to earn a
living, we have to have jobs, wetrade time for money, right,
that's all a reality.
But why not create somethingthat just sort of sees people as
whole?
And I think that's where we'regoing, and I also think, as
women leaders, we don't shy awayfrom qualities that are innate
(39:17):
to some of us, right, many of us.
Nurturing is one of them.
I am a hard, hard driving,scaling business leader who's
also compassionate.
Audra (39:27):
I mean those things can be exist at the same time,
absolutely time and I'veembraced that for myself,
(39:51):
especially over the last coupleof years, and realized that I
get to be multiple things at thesame time and it doesn't have
to fit into a little tiny box,that I was fed a bill of goods
for a very long time, that youhave to be this one thing and it
needs to fit into this box, andI realized that that was really
wrong, and I think a lot ofwomen have figured that out too.
Amy (40:11):
Well, it's so interesting.
The way you say I get to be, Iget to has been a mantra for me
for a long time.
Right, I've raised my childrenon my own since 2017.
For seven years I have been onmy own in every aspect with them
, but I got to be right.
So I look at when you say I getto be multifaceted, I get to
(40:31):
play all these roles, I get tobe a chameleon.
It is, in a lot of ways, aprivilege and an honor to be
able to navigate so manyelements of society and the
world and the workplace, becauseI think that we can be quite
good at it, because there are somany different roles that we
have to play.
I do sometimes find that beinga business leader goes against
my nature.
I'd love to be sort of gettingready for everybody and taking
(40:55):
care of the family and all ofthat.
That is not my path.
But we embrace those differentsort of elements in our approach
and I just bring myself into myleadership style.
Audra (41:06):
So the reality is is that had I not had to claw my
way through my career, I wouldnot be here.
I would not be here with you, Iwould not get to be the
ambassador of women's storiesand get to talk to women like
(41:28):
yourself and women all over theworld.
So other women get to hear them, and for that it is a gift.
Amy (41:37):
That is the beauty in the struggle.
Yes, Right Going back to my sonMarshall's sermon about the
beauty and the struggle that hehas figured out at 17 years old,
you know that I did not know.
I did not know to look for thepositive and create something
out of it, until much later inlife when I went into business
(41:57):
leadership in this way and said,oh, I have an opportunity to
create something that is aboutwhat I think and want and what I
think is good for people.
Audra (42:05):
So yeah, me too, I was 49.
Amy (42:11):
I was 49.
46 here, so, but you know, Ithink that's when we hit our
stride in a lot of ways too.
Yes, absolutely.
I used to hide my age and now Idon't anymore.
I have no you know issue thatfor 30 years 31 years I've been
in this field because I've seena lot of things and I have a lot
to share.
So being in an advisory rolecan be powerful.
Audra (42:35):
I would agree.
And, amy, I'm so glad that youtook the time to spend some of
your precious time with us.
It has been not onlyeducational for us, but it has
been a gift for me.
I'm so, so grateful that you'vebeen here and that you've
shared some of your wisdom withus, and that the audience gets
(42:57):
to hear what you built.
So thank you very much.
Amy (43:01):
Thank you so much for that , Audra, and thanks for having
me today.
Audra (43:04):
If the audience would love to hear more about what you
do, or reach out to you andhear about what your business
does, where can they contact you?
Amy (43:14):
Wildcoffeemarketingcom is our website and we actually do
consultations with folks who arejust looking for some guidance
from a marketing perspective andwe'll spend a little time there
.
I do that all the time withpeople and then also on LinkedIn
.
I love when people reach out onLinkedIn under Amy Anderson at
Wild Coffee.
Send me a message, Let me knowif you have questions about some
(43:37):
of what I talked about today orare looking for guidance or to
want to collaborate or connect.
I always love it.
Audra (43:43):
And I will make sure that all of those links are in
the show notes.
Make it, like life, easy forall of you to reach out to her.
Make sure that you told herthat you tell her that if you
heard her here, let her knowthat I sent you.
Once again, amy, thank you somuch for being here and sharing
your stories and your wisdomwith us.
I cannot thank you enough.
(44:04):
Thank you, audra, and thanks toall of you again for listening,
and we'll see you again nexttime.
Welcome in everyone and thank you so much for joining me
again this week.
This week, I am so excited foryou to meet my guest and listen
in on this amazing andincredibly timely topic.
My guest this week is AmyAnderson, and she is the widely
respected and creative industryleader with more than 25 years
(00:20):
of experience at brands likeCalvin Klein Seventeen and the
New York Times Digital.
She is the co-founder of WildCoffee Marketing and she focuses
on transforming businessesthrough a diverse set of
disciplines and tailor-madeteams.
It is my pleasure and my honorto introduce to you Amy.
Amy, thank you so much forbeing here and welcome to the
(00:41):
show.
Thank you so much for having me, audra.
I am so excited for you to behere because we're going to talk
about something that should beobvious but isn't.
It's something that I thinkwe've lost and unfortunately,
it's one of the things that welost through the pandemic I
think it was exasperated throughthe pandemic, which is we've
(01:07):
lost our a little bit of oursense of humanity, and I think
part of that is because we wereseparated for so long and you
created an entire organizationbuilt on that foundation of
supporting one another, seeingeach other in our humanity and
(01:30):
just remembering that we are all, at our core, human and we are
important.
You built an entireorganization on that very
principle, not only with youremployees, but with all of your
clients that you support.
But what I want to talk aboutis why you built it and how you
(01:54):
built it.
So let's start there as towho's Amy and why you had to
build Wild Coffee in the firstplace.
Amy (02:03):
Well, thank you so much again for having me.
I'm excited to talk to youabout that.
You know I often tell mychildren I have two sons now 17
and 20 years old that we don'tlearn from the things we do
right and we don't learn fromthe good things always that
happen around us.
It's, you know, there's somegrowth through the struggle and
actually my son in boardingschool had to do a sermon two
(02:27):
weeks ago as his final projectand his sermon was called the
Beauty in the Struggle and I'mso glad that I have these boys
who sort of see the beauty inwhat has been hard for us and
for me.
I started my marketing career inthe early 90s.
There was a recession back then.
We had to sort of take what wecould get at that point and
(02:48):
there weren't a lot of options.
And I had moved to New YorkCity and was working at some big
brands during a time when itwasn't the friendliest
environment, especially forwomen.
You know, sort of sensitivity,training, how we relate to each
other in the workplace, rulesthat go around that really did
not evolve.
I don't remember doing thattraining until the early 2000s,
(03:11):
2003,.
2004 was the first time I wasintroduced to concepts about
seeing people for what theybring into a work environment
and relating to them in a waythat works for them too.
So when I created, I'd spent 30,I've spent 30 years now in
marketing, and most of thosewere in big corporations on the
(03:31):
client side, and so I worked inin-house marketing departments
and teams and it was really achallenge to relate to a lot of
my peers and situations backthen Coming up in my 20s not a
lot of mentorship environmentsin New York City that were a
little rough around the edgeswith my dynamics with other
folks.
So when it came to my getting adivorce in my mid-40s,
(03:57):
reentering the workforce andknowing that in order to be with
my sons, I really needed tocreate my own company and I was
fortunate enough to have myparents as angel investors and
said we will cover your basicliving expenses for 12 months,
go see what you can do.
And I started a consultingpractice in marketing.
(04:17):
While I was writing my businessplan, there was a tree plant
native to South Florida calledWild Coffee that was growing
outside my window.
That was super vibrant, had tokeep cutting it back and I
thought it was an incrediblemetaphor for what I was trying
to create for both myself andfor my clients.
So Wild Coffee was born out ofmy wanting to have some
(04:37):
flexibility for my children andalso my wanting to deliver
really, really good marketingstrategy for clients.
But to create that, you have tobring people on board and to
scale that.
And that is when I realized,well, how do you create an
organization that's not built onsome fundamental values?
And that's where sort of thisculture piece started, and I
(05:01):
think I was fortunate that Istarted that from the beginning
and have evolved it intosomething that I find powerful.
Audra (05:09):
Isn't that interesting that, like all the great
inventions in history, it wasborn out of necessity, and, as
we are coming to find out, a lotof the great inventions that
were born out of necessity werecreated by women.
Yes, and it was built on thesestrong principles, these strong
(05:33):
needs to create goodness in theworld, respectability, and that
you wanted to create a betterenvironment for yourself, for
your sons and for your clientsthat they could thrive in,
because I think that that's whatpeople are craving.
People are hungry for it,people are lacking.
(05:57):
That's that void that peopleare searching for.
Now.
They're like there's somethingmissing.
What, what?
Amy (06:06):
belonging thing.
Well, belonging is is very highon the hierarchy of needs.
Yes, and I also see that peoplebring work home and so if you
are coming and working at wildcoffee, working with my business
partner, solo and me, and youare going home unhappy, then
then I saw that as impactingchildren, impacting spouses and
(06:29):
partners, friends and neighbors,right.
So when we're bringing work outinto our lives, it's a ripple
effect of how people are treated, and I don't think people on
the turnover front, I don'tthink they leave jobs, I think
they leave leaders and thephilosophy and the way of being
of a leader.
I've seen it my entire careertrickles down through an entire
(06:51):
organization.
So I think, as business leaders, we have to look and say what
do we want to trickle down?
It's one thing to have a missionand vision right.
It's another thing to havevalues and I think that values
piece is very, very importantbecause you can hire new team
members, you can retain andreward and recognize team
members and in some cases youmay need to cycle a team member
(07:14):
or transition them away from theorganization because they are
not a good fit.
And if you can't bring kindnessand compassion and seeing your
team members, your colleagues,your leaders, as whole people,
then I don't think it's going tobe a great experience for
anybody.
I don't see them as employees.
I don't see them as workers.
Anyway, they are people whodecided to take a chance on me
(07:37):
and on this concept I created,and I value that quite a bit.
Audra (07:41):
What are the values that are the non-negotiables that
have made Wild Coffee what it istoday, and it's been in
existence now 15?
Amy (07:51):
years we had toddlers when we met at a company, and now
his two have graduated fromcollege and minor in college.
So the first one is we are onewith our partners in each other,
and that's you know.
A lot of companies say thatwe're not just partners, we're
(08:14):
in this together, and I thinkthat got overplayed during COVID
.
Certainly right, we're in thistogether.
It's the way I've always lived.
That, because it's also anhonor for me that a client comes
to us with a problem that weneed to solve.
And so I actually had a partnerwe work quite a bit with in the
private equity space.
Say to me last week you are nota partner who is looking for
(08:36):
your next invoice from us, whicha lot of them do.
You are looking to solve theproblems and be accountable for
them.
And so that was reallyinteresting perspective.
I'm thinking, oh my gosh, it'sworking, this value of we truly
are one together, solvingproblems, creating something
great and scaling something.
And I'm going to look after youand you are going to look after
(08:59):
the business and our clients.
And I think if the spirit ofbusiness leadership is based on
compassion, based on clarity,candor, with feedback, respect,
then you model that.
It's like parenting.
I learned very young.
My children went to a ReggioEmilia preschool and the
director of that school in Miami, at La Tellier, said to me what
(09:23):
do you think the experience islike as a toddler to just be
whisked up by somebody, likeyour whole body gets lifted up
in the air with no warning.
That is not respectful to asmall child, to just whisk them
up like that.
And I was thinking, oh so fromthe time my children were little
, I've been trying to modelrespect and communication and
I've gotten that back.
(09:43):
And I think the same with theteam.
When I model that to them, theymodel it back and to each other
, which is the important part.
Audra (09:51):
And this isn't easy to do.
I mean, your business is amarketing and communications
business and, as consumers onthe other side, we're used to
being sold to, and you're doingthis a completely different way.
You're doing this in a modelthat is one that is based on
(10:12):
honesty and communication.
How do you manage this?
Amy (10:27):
that you have right.
We're growing at about 30, 35%per year and that means the
company's doubling every twoyears.
We made the Inc 5000 list lastyear.
But how do you scale a companyand add value to people without
stressing the organization toomuch?
Because if you stress theorganization too much, it has
impact on the people and thenyou can't deliver for clients.
So I think the transparencyit's that you know sort of we
are one with our clients.
It's that transparency andcommunication where we can't
(10:49):
solve this or it's going to takeus longer than we thought, and
that trust that we establishupfront in this very
consultative approach allows usthat, and we really.
But you have to act it everyday, right.
You can't just put values onthe wall and then expect them to
happen.
You have to live it.
And so when you're living thisconsultative approach in a sales
(11:10):
cycle and then you startworking with a client, that
needs to stay consistent, right.
Audra (11:16):
And this is I mean, what we're talking about is business
, but this is translating intotheir lives too.
This is business concepts, thisis consultative concepts, but
this is translating into theirlives, into your employees'
lives.
You can't live this andseparate the two.
(11:38):
It just doesn't work.
It has to translate into whatthey're doing personally too.
It just they can't existotherwise.
Amy (11:50):
Well, and I think especially this Wild Coffee has
been a remote company for thelast six years.
So when COVID hit, I said, holdmy beer, I've got this.
You know been doing thisalready for three years.
But it requires a differentapproach and connectedness, not
just for accountability purposes.
Right, you can build businessprocess in.
You know we share what we didat the end of every day and part
(12:11):
of our project managementsoftware.
I start my morning with mycoffee and read what everybody
has going on.
There's information sharing.
There's accountability.
We track time.
We're a consulting firm.
That's what I sell.
But on Fridays in our teammeeting we actually do an
icebreaker with 20 people.
What is your best businessmoment of the week?
What is your best personalmoment of the week?
(12:33):
Because I want to know whatlights you up about your work,
what do you love, what are youproud of and I'm not surprised
anymore I was at first how oftenit's about the collaboration.
They love it.
These guys like each other,they support each other.
The right energy is going intothe dynamic, so they love the
collaboration between teammembers.
Then, personally, I want to knowwhat are your plans this
(12:55):
weekend.
You know what happened in yourlife.
What milestones did your familyhit?
What are you excited about?
I know now that I have a newteam member, recent college
graduate, one year out of school, our most sort of unseasoned
team member who shows a greatdeal of poise.
She loves the Florida Panthers.
How would I know that withoutasking?
(13:15):
So I think that theconnectedness that you
intentionally find with the teammembers who have honored you by
taking a chance on you,especially in a small company
like mine and I'm taking achance on them that
connectedness has to beintentional because we don't
have the benefit of the watercooler chat right.
Audra (13:35):
So you actually are making an investment in knowing
who they are.
Amy (13:42):
Yes, because how do you lead people you don't know?
Because you need to figure out,like what's your currency?
Is it recognition andacknowledgement?
Is it money?
Is it responsibility?
Is it learning?
And I think we all in businessneed to ask ourselves you know
even what our own currency is.
Mine was always moreresponsibility.
I wanted to be elevated in acorporate environment.
(14:02):
You know, that felt really goodto me because it meant that I
did a good job.
For some of my guys, it'svacation, it's BTO.
Audra (14:11):
Oh, what a concept Get to know each other and find out
what's important to eachindividual.
Shocking, because what might beimportant to one person may be
very different to what'simportant to the other person,
because that's where you findout where their motivation is
Right and that connectioncreates better work dynamic.
Amy (14:33):
If you know, we don't ask why did this happen?
Or if there's a mistake thatcomes up, we say, hey, what's
going on?
You know, is there somethinggoing on Like, do we need, like,
how can I help you, how can Isupport you?
It's understanding, causation,and not ever in a reprimand
situation, because if there's apattern of mistakes or
(14:54):
something's happening, I'd liketo know what I can do to
mitigate that.
But I really care.
You know I think you and I mayhave spoken about this in our
pre-call that love and businessI don't think are mutually
exclusive.
There have been team memberswho have worked side by side
with me for five years.
How do I not have thosefeelings?
(15:16):
It's almost impossible,especially if you're building
(15:40):
trust with that person,especially if you're remote.
There's no way, because youhave to work wrong with going
and saying, hey, how's yourweekend?
Did you guys have a good one?
How was your daughter'sbirthday celebration this
weekend, or how did that go?
They tell me things on Fridayat our team meeting.
I can check in on Monday andask how it went.
We have this joke that I'malways.
You know, the nurturing part ofmy leadership is asking people
to take Ubers, right.
(16:01):
So, especially since I have ahigh concentration of team
members in Miami and they'regoing out and they're going to
music festivals and there'salways a hey guys, take an Uber,
have a great weekend.
Or saying thank you, you know,for all the great work this week
.
I am grateful for that.
But I think you know there's aprocess of dehumanization going
on in our culture.
I mean, you mentioned theseparation.
(16:23):
It's politically motivated insome ways to dehumanize a group,
to gain control over them ormake people fear them.
I also think the separation atwork.
You know what is the impact onus that we don't see each other
face to face.
I don't know that Zoom andMicrosoft Teams create the same
togetherness, you know.
So what can we do in this sortof flat world to create a
(16:48):
dynamic that means that whenpeople go home to their families
at night they feel good?
Audra (16:52):
Ask them, about them, and get to know them a little
bit, rather than these voices onthe other side of the screen.
Or, heaven forbid, if you getbrave enough, turn on your
cameras.
Amy (17:06):
Oh so we're an on-camera culture, audra, isn't that
interesting?
So we explain to folks that itis important for us to feel
connected and to be present whenwe are communicating with
clients especially, and witheach other.
But we are an on-camera culture.
But we are an on-camera culture.
If you need to step away fromyour desk, please, by all means.
You know things happen.
(17:32):
Doorbell rings, dogs bark.
You know you need to step awayfor a moment.
In my case, it's my 92nd cup ofcoffee.
You may step away, of course,but we're on camera.
I'm looking.
You know, when we're talking toclients, when I'm in a team
meeting, I'm looking to seepeople's body language, their
facial expressions, what arethey responding to.
Plus, when I'm in a teammeeting and there are six, seven
people, 20 people in the casewith my team, you know I can
(17:54):
tell if somebody would like tosay something or add, I can look
at their body language andinclude them in a conversation.
I mean, you have to read theroom still, even though we're
just seeing each other'sshoulders and heads, you know.
Audra (18:05):
So everybody is.
I heard this expression.
I just heard this expressionFriday is a mullet meeting.
I had never heard thisexpression before, which means
that they're dressed up from thewaist up and it's pajamas from
the waist down.
I'd never heard that before andI thought, okay, yeah, that's
the way.
Yeah, they're dressed for amullet meeting, which you know,
(18:30):
whichever way works worksExactly.
Amy (18:32):
All the more reason to turn off your camera if you're
going to step away for a second,you know for sure.
But I think that even you knowwhen we talk about seeing people
as whole people, you know Istill do expect presence in
meetings with clients.
So it's fine with me if youhave never worn shoes in six
years or you're in pajamas onthe bottom, but we do need to
(18:56):
bring something and I oftentimes, when I'm presenting branding
projects, things like that, Iwear certain colors.
So I will often wear red just,or a really deep blue, because
I'm trying to hold people'sattention on a flat screen.
You know when before I could goin and sort of evangelize and
really sort of bring the energyinto the room and stand.
(19:17):
I'm still doing some of thatwork, for sure.
Now I'm traveling and gettingin front of clients.
I was in front of 50franchisees with a West Coast
pizza chain two weeks ago, butit's harder.
It's harder and I also thinkit's harder to connect with your
remote team members.
Audra (19:36):
So what is your intention behind it?
What are you going to do?
Because you can't.
It's harder to read and feelbody language when your screen's
away.
Yes, and it's also harder foryour team members to know about
accountability as a leader, andyou explained something to me
that has just stayed with mefrom the moment that we met,
which was this concept of flipthe turtle of Flip the Turtle,
(20:15):
because it takes theaccountability on you as the
leader and does not put theblame on anybody else.
Amy (20:18):
And do you mind explaining to everybody what Flip the
Turtle means?
Thinking about this concept ofcollaboration, cooperation and
kindness?
Everyone who joins our team ourinterns, just started last
Tuesday.
Wild coffee is a culture ofkindness and everyone you
encounter you're going to have aconsistent experience because
at a baseline, they will be kindto you.
(20:40):
We are in real trouble when GenZ is coming up and they don't
feel psychologically safe andthey're used to comparing
everything on social media andthey're terrified to innovate.
And I do believe there's anarticle in the Wall Street
Journal last year.
I do think there will be someimpacts from this.
So it made the psychologicallysafe environment even more
important to me.
I need their brains, I needtheir ideas.
(21:02):
I think they're brilliant, butthey need to feel safe to do
that.
So I had seen a video of aturtle on its back and had a
little help from my friends,from Bob Seger was playing and
all the other turtles go runningup to this turtle on its back
and work together to flip itback over, and I said, oh, this
is it, this is what I'm tryingto capture for these guys and
(21:25):
how I believe they are.
This is it.
This is what I'm trying tocapture for these guys and how I
believe they are.
So I'm in the meeting and I'mdoing my evangelizing and sort
of talking I think we werewrapping it up, actually at that
point and I went to click thelink in the video that I had
tested, I promise, and it was ina Google slide and it didn't
play.
And I was so embarrassedbecause Audra, too, is a
business leader Like I don'tever want, in this digital first
(21:45):
world, to be seen as non-techsavvy.
So I was horrified and theyknow this about me right and
four people came running to thefront of the room to help me,
not even knowing what the videowas.
And what they demonstrated wasthis flip the turtle concept
which was in the video, which iswhat I was trying to show them.
I tried not to get emotionalabout it in front of everyone,
(22:09):
but they completely personifiedthe spirit of a cooperation
collaboration, no questionsasked.
You run to the turtle and youflip it, and so it has permeated
, it resonated with them, itmade sense and they got to see
it live, which reinforced thepoint I was trying to make, but
it has now permeated ourvernacular.
(22:29):
We'll be doing some planningsessions.
We will assign three newclients in a week.
We're scaling.
When you grow at 30% a year, itis no small feat for the team
that is there and they said youguys, we're going to have to
really flip the turtle a lotnext week, and so I know that
they get it and it's somethingthat I meet with new employees,
(22:49):
new team members, their firstday and we talk about Flip the
Turtles.
So from day one I share thatwith them.
Audra (22:57):
It's just such this beautiful visualization for me
that it's like I said, there isno finger pointing.
You, as the leader, have takenaccountability for this and you
have said we are all in, itdoesn't matter what went wrong,
(23:18):
it doesn't matter who didn'tflip the switch right, it does
not matter, it doesn't matterwhich one of us is on their back
, we all rush in, we all helpput that person back on their
feet, we fix it and we move on.
Yep, that is an amazing culture, because there's learning
(23:42):
opportunities for everybody.
There is no failure, and it is.
We learned from it.
We're not pointing fingers,we're not blaming, we're fixing
it and we're moving on, andnobody, especially the client,
is the wiser Right.
And there's no shame, there'sno nothing.
Amy (24:04):
You know how many mistakes I've made in my life.
I mean, I see my life as aseries of mistakes from which I
learned and grew, and I havemade mistakes in work.
I look back on my career andtry not to judge myself too
harshly over just how unpreparedI was at certain times.
(24:24):
I had fear right.
I didn't know how tointernalize and problem solve
very well.
I was in environments where Ifelt wildly intimidated.
You know when I talk about thatperiod in New York, and so I
think now you know there's noshame in anything.
It's like if you have a patternof mistakes, let's address the
(24:48):
underlying cause and how we cansupport that.
If there and oftentimes a lotcan be addressed in process, if
you create some more predictableprocess of people to follow,
it's not the Wild West.
You know we use EOSEntrepreneurial Operating System
to run our company, you know soyou can get process and
infrastructure in place.
And then it's the people,dynamics of people rushing to
(25:11):
help each other.
And I see it every day Even theproof rating and QA system for
work that goes to clients goesthrough a proofing channel and
people can't wait to jump on it.
Hey, can somebody outside of mypod.
It's sort of a coffee thingthat we have, but we have
consulting teams and pods andthey'll be like I need somebody
outside the pod to review this.
(25:31):
I see them jump on it.
You know people love to helpeach other and if that is just
there because it's part of thefabric of a group of people,
then it doesn't guarantee but itmakes it very likely that
people will have a really goodexperience working with you.
And I feel like, as businessleaders, owners, people who work
(25:52):
with clients isn't that what weall want to create?
So that it's just fun when youwork with a group.
That's just a blast andeveryone's kind like works great
.
Audra (26:04):
We, as as gen xers because you are also a gen xer
we have not.
We have not done a great job ofteaching work to be fun.
We have not because we weren'ttaught that work was fun, work
was work.
We were not taught that workwas fun and and I don't think
(26:26):
that we instilled that too muchin our kids I think that we did
a better job of teaching them tochase things that set their
souls on fire, but I don't thinkthat we taught them how to
incorporate fun and passion intowhat they do.
That's why I think that theseyounger generations are doing a
(26:46):
much better job at it than weare.
But to your point, these GenZers feel everything, yes,
everything.
I see this in my daughter, andshe was in college in the middle
of lockdown.
I refer to it as ZoomUniversity.
(27:07):
She was upstairs in class onher computer and I see the
effects.
Now and now that she's in theworking world, she's graduated
from university and I see it.
I see the effects.
Every single comment,everything affects her so deeply
(27:33):
and I worry, and I see theenvironment that you're creating
.
I'm thinking we need more ofthat.
Amy (27:42):
Right, I don't think there's anything wrong with
psychological safety in theworkplace, right I?
Audra (27:46):
don't think there's anything wrong with
psychological safety in theworkplace.
Amy (28:01):
No, and what you're creating.
We need to make and to be tiedto something greater and
meaningful, and I think that'samazing.
I think we just automaticallygrinded and didn't really pay.
I spent my entire 20s in NewYork City just sort of doing
that.
I think I don't believe inwork-life balance as much as
work-life harmony.
I think balance is a pressureword.
(28:22):
I don't even know what thatmeans.
Life is not a scale.
There are going to be timesthat work sort of integrates
into your life better than othertimes and the key as business
leaders is to be able to flowwith the business needs and the
people needs and to balance allof those.
I know someone on my teamrecently went through a move and
(28:42):
I'm watching because I knowwhat a big deal that is.
We had a baby born last Auguston the team.
We had one born a year ago,January.
We have a wedding in September.
So there are people goingthrough.
There are people whose parentsare not doing well health-wise.
So the key is to know them soyou can look at the needs of the
(29:03):
business, look at the needs ofthe team and just be there,
because we're not all firing at100%, 80% all the time.
It's like in a relationshipwhen you say I've got 20 today,
can you have the other 80?
And just to be clear about that.
So I think it's important towatch your team and to
understand sort of where theyare in their life cycle and what
they're experiencing, Becausesometimes they may need to back
(29:26):
off a little bit to be well.
So since we can't.
Audra (29:29):
There's a lot of us that desire to have what you've
created, but can't createsomething from scratch.
But maybe we can influencesomething from the inside out.
How would you give leadersguidance in order to do that,
Because it only takes one personto make positivity contagious.
(29:52):
How do we do that?
And it doesn't have to bedaunting.
Amy (29:57):
No, I even think icebreakers in meetings.
Why not?
You know, why should I?
Just, why not do an icebreakerand be like, okay, sometimes you
will say best business, firstconcert or first album you ever
owned, and I mean what we learnabout people's music tastes,
(30:18):
what concerts they've been to,what experiences they've had.
I think that matters.
So I think you can start withjust a meeting format and figure
out how to mix things up sothat people feel seen and known
and interested in you know,rather than saying okay, it's
302, blah, blah, blah, and justdive right in when you have the
(30:40):
space to do that and theintention is I see you, I would
like to know you, I would liketo understand you so that we can
work well together and yourexperience is good.
You know, I'm sorry, go ahead.
So I think it's a small thingright.
It doesn't mean you have to allof a sudden have new values for
your company and put thisstructure in place and come up
(31:00):
with a flip the turtle conceptor anything like that.
It's really just knowing themand making that intentional when
you interact.
Audra (31:08):
And what I was going to say is that I never thought
about doing that internally formy team, but I think I might now
.
What I have done in the pastwhen I would do presentations
externally for potential clientsis everybody, when everybody
joins a virtual meeting, it'salways this weird kind of
(31:33):
uncomfortable, awkward chit chatand it always seems to be about
the weather, which I hate.
What I started to do is I wouldput a question, a really
bizarre question, out on thescreen and some of the questions
would be like pie or cake.
I would put questions out likethat and then pie or cake, and
(31:58):
why, and what's your favoriteStuff?
Like that.
Just because I wanted to try andbreak up the monotony, because
when you're trying to present toa client, no one thinks that
you're going to ask them whichone is your favorite pie or cake
and which.
Because you know you'rerespectable, you're trying to,
you know, present seriousmaterial.
(32:20):
But I just was tired of askingor talking about the weather, so
I wanted to break it up.
I never dawned on me to do thesame for my team.
Amy (32:32):
So this is brilliant.
Oh, it's so interesting.
Yeah, no, it's so interestingand really it gets, I think, on
a client like external meeting.
It gets people in the mindsetof that you're listening to them
Right.
People in the mindset of thatyou're listening to them right
and that the whole purpose.
You know we're often presentingclient information but that
exchange is really important andit's hey, I'm listening With
(32:54):
your team.
It's hey, I see you and I knowyou and I'd like to know more so
that I can understand there andbe there for you better.
You know, when it's just aboutthe work and this is like my
style as a leader and these aremy business objectives and
you're here to meet my businessobjectives I feel like that's
like 30% of the equation.
There's this whole other rightwhich is let's be in an
(33:19):
environment where I can have,you can bring your best and you
can be happy and then gointeract with the world in a way
that's a bit more positive andyou can be happy and then go
interact with the world in a waythat's a bit more positive and
it's easy.
Audra (33:34):
And I love this, I love that it's so easy, and it still
can be professional and fun atthe same time.
I just I love what you'vecreated.
I love that you've createdsomething that we can emulate
and it not be hard and not be,and not us feel any less
ourselves, but still even beeven more human.
Amy (33:56):
Right.
Well, I've been environmentswhere I've had a boss, a hiring
manager say to me do you playgolf?
Because that's where a lot ofour business is done.
And I was a tennis player, nota golfer, right.
And there just have been somany times where I have felt
excluded from this.
So you don't have to benaturally positive as I am I
(34:16):
mean, I was just born this way.
I think you could just beinterested, right, you know,
just to show interest in yourteam and people around you is
very you know.
I tell my children that all thetime.
Please, please, when youencounter people, make sure they
feel better after they leftyour presence than they did when
you entered it.
And the way you can do that isasking questions.
(34:39):
It makes a better dynamic, itshows that you're interested, it
gives them something to talkabout, it's disarming in a
positive way.
So if we ask those questions,hey, like, would love, like,
what's been your best personalmoment of the month?
We do it for the quarter.
When we're doing businessreviews quarterly, what was your
best of the quarter?
What do you think that youcould have done differently, or
(35:03):
what didn't go your way thisquarter, you know, and then
grade it on a scale of one to 10.
How is this quarter for you?
And we do that also in our teammember reviews.
Every 90 days, we review theteam in a way that asks their
energy level on a scale of oneto 10.
Where are you?
Where are you?
And we gauge from quarter toquarter.
Did you go from an eight to a10, a nine, and if you're not a
(35:24):
10, how can I help you?
What do you need to get to a 10?
What is your energy?
And we show that we care.
If you're at a six, I'mconcerned.
If you're at a 10 every quarter, either I've done something
magically right together withyou, or you're not telling me
the truth, but I think that'simportant to ask them how's your
(35:46):
energy this quarter?
How'd you do?
What do you think Not?
Hey, I'm going to give youfeedback.
Remember Audra annualperformance reviews?
Do you remember that worldwhere you I'd sit there and be
like wait?
Did you, did you withhold thatfeedback from me for 12 months,
when you could have told me inreal time that I had an area to
improve, an opportunity toimprove?
(36:08):
We give real-time feedback.
That's the candor and theclarity that shows you care and
you can do something when ithappened Real-time Real-time.
Audra (36:21):
You can't go back 12 months and fix something.
Tell me now.
I'm happy to fix it right now.
Yes, I can't.
Amy (36:31):
I don't have the time machine.
Yeah, exactly that honors peoplewhen you say, hey, I saw this
happen and I think there's anopportunity for us.
You're doing X, y and Z reallywell.
I think there's an opportunityfor this to be better.
And let me just sort of giveyou some guidance and some
advice on how I would do that orhow I'd like to see it happen
(36:52):
in real time.
So then when you're checking inquarterly, you're setting goals
for the quarter.
There's a section that says Iwant to do more of that.
They fill in.
I want to do less of things Ilove, things I don't love.
Because I want to know and Iknow who doesn't like math and
PowerPoints on my team.
It's another way to get to knowthem right Is to ask what do
you like doing?
(37:12):
What do you not like doing?
I think they should have a sayit's okay to not like certain
elements of your job because youdon't feel good at that.
It also shows an area todevelop them, an area to focus
on.
But you have to ask.
You know it comes back to thosequestions.
Audra (37:24):
You know I love what you've built.
I really love what you builtBecause I have said often on my
show that corporate America wasnot built for women, because it
wasn't built by women, becauseit didn't consider something
other than what the environmentwas at the time, and it hasn't
(37:54):
changed much.
You built an environment thatconsidered everybody, didn't
necessarily assign a gender toit, it just considered the
humanity of it, and I thinkthat's what corporate America is
missing.
It's not necessarily missingremembering a gender, it's
(38:19):
missing the humanity, and Ithink that that's what you
remembered and got right.
That's what you figured out.
Amy (38:36):
Thank you for saying that and for that acknowledgement.
We are just moving in the worldin a way, that sort of is with
the flow of life and notfighting against it, which is to
create a set of rules tosqueeze work and productivity
out of human beings.
It's really sort of being insomething because we have to
(38:57):
work and most of us do, right,audra I mean, we have to earn a
living, we have to have jobs, wetrade time for money, right,
that's all a reality.
But why not create somethingthat just sort of sees people as
whole?
And I think that's where we'regoing, and I also think, as
women leaders, we don't shy awayfrom qualities that are innate
(39:17):
to some of us, right, many of us.
Nurturing is one of them.
I am a hard, hard driving,scaling business leader who's
also compassionate.
Audra (39:27):
I mean those things can be exist at the same time,
absolutely time and I'veembraced that for myself,
(39:51):
especially over the last coupleof years, and realized that I
get to be multiple things at thesame time and it doesn't have
to fit into a little tiny box,that I was fed a bill of goods
for a very long time, that youhave to be this one thing and it
needs to fit into this box, andI realized that that was really
wrong, and I think a lot ofwomen have figured that out too.
Amy (40:11):
Well, it's so interesting.
The way you say I get to be, Iget to has been a mantra for me
for a long time.
Right, I've raised my childrenon my own since 2017.
For seven years I have been onmy own in every aspect with them
, but I got to be right.
So I look at when you say I getto be multifaceted, I get to
(40:31):
play all these roles, I get tobe a chameleon.
It is, in a lot of ways, aprivilege and an honor to be
able to navigate so manyelements of society and the
world and the workplace, becauseI think that we can be quite
good at it, because there are somany different roles that we
have to play.
I do sometimes find that beinga business leader goes against
my nature.
I'd love to be sort of gettingready for everybody and taking
(40:55):
care of the family and all ofthat.
That is not my path.
But we embrace those differentsort of elements in our approach
and I just bring myself into myleadership style.
Audra (41:06):
So the reality is is that had I not had to claw my
way through my career, I wouldnot be here.
I would not be here with you, Iwould not get to be the
ambassador of women's storiesand get to talk to women like
(41:28):
yourself and women all over theworld.
So other women get to hear them, and for that it is a gift.
Amy (41:37):
That is the beauty in the struggle.
Yes, Right Going back to my sonMarshall's sermon about the
beauty and the struggle that hehas figured out at 17 years old,
you know that I did not know.
I did not know to look for thepositive and create something
out of it, until much later inlife when I went into business
(41:57):
leadership in this way and said,oh, I have an opportunity to
create something that is aboutwhat I think and want and what I
think is good for people.
Audra (42:05):
So yeah, me too, I was 49.
Amy (42:11):
I was 49.
46 here, so, but you know, Ithink that's when we hit our
stride in a lot of ways too.
Yes, absolutely.
I used to hide my age and now Idon't anymore.
I have no you know issue thatfor 30 years 31 years I've been
in this field because I've seena lot of things and I have a lot
to share.
So being in an advisory rolecan be powerful.
Audra (42:35):
I would agree.
And, amy, I'm so glad that youtook the time to spend some of
your precious time with us.
It has been not onlyeducational for us, but it has
been a gift for me.
I'm so, so grateful that you'vebeen here and that you've
shared some of your wisdom withus, and that the audience gets
(42:57):
to hear what you built.
So thank you very much.
Amy (43:01):
Thank you so much for that , Audra, and thanks for having
me today.
Audra (43:04):
If the audience would love to hear more about what you
do, or reach out to you andhear about what your business
does, where can they contact you?
Amy (43:14):
Wildcoffeemarketingcom is our website and we actually do
consultations with folks who arejust looking for some guidance
from a marketing perspective andwe'll spend a little time there
.
I do that all the time withpeople and then also on LinkedIn
.
I love when people reach out onLinkedIn under Amy Anderson at
Wild Coffee.
Send me a message, Let me knowif you have questions about some
(43:37):
of what I talked about today orare looking for guidance or to
want to collaborate or connect.
I always love it.
Audra (43:43):
And I will make sure that all of those links are in
the show notes.
Make it, like life, easy forall of you to reach out to her.
Make sure that you told herthat you tell her that if you
heard her here, let her knowthat I sent you.
Once again, amy, thank you somuch for being here and sharing
your stories and your wisdomwith us.
I cannot thank you enough.
(44:04):
Thank you, audra, and thanks toall of you again for listening,
and we'll see you again nexttime.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!