Redefining Resilience: A Woman's Unyielding Battle to Reclaim Her Dreams with Michelle Gates Roberts
August 16, 2024 • 37 mins
🚀 Have you ever felt like life’s transitions stole your dreams? Join us in this transformative episode as we sit down with the incredible Michelle Gates Roberts, who bravely shares her journey through early pregnancy, battling a debilitating illness, and living in Asia for a decade. Despite society's expectations to simply "be content," Michelle faced isolation and depression head-on, emerging stronger with a mission to empower women facing similar challenges.
🎯 Key Takeaways:
- 🌱 From Grief to Empowerment: Discover how Michelle turned her deepest grief into a powerful force for good.
- 🔥 Trailblazing, Not Trailing: We redefine the term "trailing spouses," highlighting the courage and resilience required to navigate life’s biggest transitions.
- 🧘♀️ Embracing Stillness: Learn the importance of acknowledging emotions, embracing quiet moments, and using strategies like journaling to unlock new possibilities.
- 👩👧👦 Challenges for Women Over 40: Explore the unique struggles faced by women, particularly single mothers, in today's tough economic environment.
- 🤝 Power of Community: Understand how group coaching and community support can reignite dreams and provide the connection we all need post-pandemic.
This episode is a must-listen for any woman looking to reclaim her dreams, find her voice, and build a supportive network where no one has to face life’s challenges alone. Tune in and be inspired to turn your own transitions into triumphs!
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-gates-roberts/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Audra (00:00):
Welcome in everyone and thank you so much for joining me
again this week.
This week I have a very, veryspecial guest because her heart
is with service for others.
My guest this week is MichelleGates Roberts, and she is in
service of others that are intransition.
(00:20):
She is a keynote speaker, acoach and a consultant and she
specializes in supportingindividuals who have to postpone
or give up their dreams thatare due to overwhelming or
systemic change.
Now think about what that means.
They have to postpone or giveup their dreams.
That must be heart-wrenching.
(00:42):
She draws on her ownexperiences and from a global
perspective, and she helpsnavigate their grief and also
explore other possibilities andgive them the courage to dream
again.
It is my pleasure and my honorto introduce to you Michelle.
Michelle, thank you so much forjoining us and welcome to the
(01:05):
show.
Michelle (01:06):
Thank you, audra.
It is an honor to be here.
You have had some of the mostamazing conversations with the
most amazing women, and to behere with you is an honor.
Audra (01:17):
Well, thank you for being here and reading through your
bio and reading those words ofhaving postponed or even pause
your dream.
That just wrecked me, because Ijust had to sit and think about
that for a moment and I thought, oh my gosh, and that is not
(01:40):
just specifically for women,that happens to men too, but I
think that happens more often towomen.
But what made you focus on that, on the idea of these
individuals and more than not,it's women that have to put
(02:04):
pause on the idea of chasingtheir dreams?
What made you focus on them?
Michelle (02:12):
Well, I would love to say that it's because I just
have a big heart.
But I experienced this, and Iexperienced it more than once.
I was newly married andstarting my career and got
pregnant a little sooner than wethought, and so I took time off
(02:33):
for that.
But that was planned, that, youknow.
That was okay, but it still putmy timeline, you know, a little
further out.
But also during this time timeI was diagnosed with a chronic
debilitating disease thatbasically I had no energy,
couldn't do anything, and theprospects of going back to my
(02:56):
career were were pretty slim atthat point, and so you can
imagine the all the feelingsthat come with that.
I was feeling isolated, I feltbad because I couldn't spend
time with my family or my smalldaughter.
But eventually I was able to,with the help of healthcare
professionals, get the diseaseunder control and finally get
(03:21):
back to my career.
And I had fought so hard,through my education, through
the disease, to get to thispoint.
It was wonderful.
I had a wonderful boss, awonderful mentor, and we had
mapped out my career path and itwas bright, it was fulfilling,
(03:42):
it was more than I dreamt itcould be.
And then my husband came homeone day and he said hey,
michelle, how would you like tomove to Japan?
And I said Well, that soundswonderful.
I was really excited.
I was excited to support hiscareer.
And then I thought, oh, wait aminute, what about my career?
(04:04):
I thought, well, ok, we'll onlybe gone for a couple of years.
And so I talked to my employerand I was like OK, well, when
you come back, we're willing tolet you pick back up where you
left off.
We stayed in Asia and we werethere for about 10 years and so,
(04:25):
as you can imagine, youremployer is not going to hold a
position for you for 10 years.
There was a lot of soulsearching going on because in
this new reality of mine, thisnew home, if you will, I wasn't
(04:50):
really allowed to do much as faras working goes, and when I
asked about it or tried toinquire, I was told well, you
know, you just do what the othertrailing spouses do.
You know, you just go to lunchand go to yoga and shop and
drink wine and take care of thefamily.
Lunch and go to yoga and shopand drink wine and take care of
the family.
And while that may sound funfor a couple of days.
(05:10):
That was not who I was calledto be.
That was not my dream for me,and over time I started to lose
my identity and kind of sunkinto isolation and depression,
and it wasn't until a littlewhile later I discovered wait a
(05:31):
minute, what I'm really goingthrough right now is grief.
I'm grieving all of the thingsthat I have left behind and
there's no way to go back andget it.
Audra (05:45):
Sure, You're an educated woman.
You dedicated a lot of yourlife to your education, to your
career.
You have a lot of experience.
You have a lot of thought and alot of intellect and a lot to
(06:06):
offer the world besides of justladies who lunch.
I like to think so, and that'sbasically what they were
inferring.
Is you should just sit stilland look pretty?
Is you should just sit stilland look pretty?
(06:30):
Your husband is taking care ofyou financially and you should
be happy, you should be gratefulbecause all of your financial
needs are being met.
You don't have to worry for athing.
Just go shopping, go have lunch, take care of your children and
don't worry.
Your pretty little head is whatI'm understanding was the
(06:53):
sentiment.
Michelle (06:57):
Yes, and people couldn't understand why I was
unhappy with that.
And then, as I got to know theother ladies who were in the
same position as myself, theyweren't really happy with it
either, but they didn't knowwhat to do, or they found small
(07:20):
ways to occupy their time, likebe a substitute teacher at the
school or be the president ofthe PTO.
And let me tell you, when youtake an educated, ambitious,
motivated, energetic careerwoman and take her out of that
position and the only otheroption for her is to be the
(07:45):
school PTO president, let metell you now, those PTOs were
some of the most successful,highly funded PTOs I've ever
seen.
And there's nothing wrong withbeing the president of the PTO
if that is your calling, ifthat's what you want to do, if
that's what you choose, notbecause that's the only thing
(08:07):
available to you.
Audra (08:10):
So it was you and these other women were grieving what
you had planned for yourself,the life that you thought you
were going to have, but you hadpaused it or delayed it because
your husband had been given anopportunity.
And then you said, okay, I willdo this for the betterment of
(08:35):
our family for now, but maybefor the hopes that at some point
I can have something later.
Michelle (08:44):
Right, some point I can have something later.
Right and again, in thebeginning we thought we would
only be gone for a couple ofyears and as our stay continued,
it was obvious I couldn't goback to that dream or that path.
And I think that's when thereal grieving started.
(09:06):
And once I came to accept it, Iwas able to look around and try
to figure out what was possibleand if there might be another
dream, something different,something maybe even better.
Audra (09:22):
So once you were able to come to an acceptance after you
finished the grieving processand you came to an acceptance,
then you decided well then, ifI'm in this spot, or I have been
in this spot, maybe others havegone through a grieving process
(09:42):
and to an acceptance.
Maybe I can be an ambassador toassist them through a
transition as well.
Maybe not in the same way thatyou had to go through a
transition, maybe they had to gothrough a transition themselves
, through a death, divorce, anillness.
You had decided that maybe youcould be that assistance to them
(10:03):
as well, that maybe you couldbe that assistance to them as
well.
What have you now done to reachout?
Michelle (10:12):
to those women to assist them through that
transition.
Well, so at first I was focusedon they call them trailing
spouses and first of all I hatethat term To trail is not
aspirational and so I've beenworking on changing that
nomenclature to trailblazingspouse and so that's kind of
(10:33):
where I started was with thatgroup of women and I say women
because there's not many men whotrail.
There are a few, and I don'tdiscriminate, but by and large
it's women.
And as I was helping thesewomen through this kind of
process of grieving andacceptance and dreaming again, I
(10:58):
realized this isn't just womenwho have had to pick up their
everything and move to anothercountry.
This is there are women allover the world living in their
hometown that either divorce orempty nest being laid off.
There are many differentreasons why our dreams are
(11:21):
paused or die, why our dreamsare paused or die.
Audra (11:29):
The pool of people that I am trying to help is much
larger now, because this is avery human thing, yeah it's
definitely something that Ihadn't considered before and I
think when you and I first met,I'd shared with you that I'm an
empty nester and I have beengoing through a grieving process
, that it completely caught meoff guard because I'm a put
(11:52):
together woman.
I am a, I am a professionalexecutive woman and I've have
been very prideful of makingsure that I appeared to have it
all together Remember the keyword there is appeared to have
it all together.
And when I came to therealization that it was not
(12:17):
going to go back the way it wasand I had a delayed reaction
because I'm an excellentcompartmentalizer I am so good
at it that I can keep myselfbusy that I have distracted
myself to the reality where Icould no longer ignore that I am
an empty nester.
The grief was overwhelming, andit's something that shouldn't
(12:49):
be, something that's sowonderful.
You would not expect to comewith such waves of grief, but it
did.
It came with overwhelming, justdrowning, just waves of grief
that just caught me by surpriseand I realized what I was
(13:12):
grieving was something that nolonger could be, and it wasn't
(13:35):
necessarily a dream that nolonger was, it was just I could
no longer have what I had hadfor the last 25 years, and that
could be a dream, but I had tolearn to focus on something else
, which I imagine is that's whatthe exact same thing that these
women were doing is.
They had to learn how to focuson something else, and a lot of
those, in a lot of those cases,it was probably focusing on
themselves for the first time,maybe ever, and for me, it was
(14:00):
the first time in 25 plus yearswhere I got the opportunity to
be a focus.
That's terrifying.
Michelle (14:10):
Yes, it is, and you brought up a good point.
Whenever this change happens.
Well, first of all, we all saythat we're okay with change.
We're not.
Change is hard, even the peoplethat claim to be the best at it
(14:31):
.
It's hard, it's a process, it'sa new reality and there are
bumps along the way and if wedon't accept that, the bumps are
even more painful.
But you mentioned like, rightafter the change happened, you
were occupied with all of theseother things and it took time to
(14:55):
figure out oh, something'sgoing on here out, oh
something's going on here, andmaybe I'm grieving this loss of
what was and can never be again.
So let's say it's atrailblazing spouse and she's
now in this new reality.
(15:17):
Well, she's very busy.
She's busy figuring out wherethe grocery store is, how to
read labels in this differentlanguage, how to get to the
school, how to do all of the.
Basically, she's having tolearn how to do everything in a
different language and thattakes a lot of time, a lot of
(15:39):
energy and maybe, besidesfinding a hair salon and a
doctor, she's not thinking aboutherself.
She has to help the familysurvive and if you're in
survival mode, you are notthinking about yourself, and I
(15:59):
think that case is the samewhether you're an empty nester,
a trailblazing spouse, have adeath in the family.
We get caught up in the everydaystuff thing I try to do is to
shorten that process of busy,busy, busy.
(16:21):
Oh here I am.
Wait a minute.
Who am I?
What am I now?
Who do I want to be?
And exploring that so that ispart of the process is getting
to the realization that you'llnever be able to step into that
river again right at that samespot.
(16:44):
And once we can get to thatgrief and acceptance, then we
can see the gift that's on theother side.
Audra (16:53):
So how do you meet them there?
How do you meet that legacy?
You meet that legacy In thiscase we're talking about women
just because for trailblazingspouses it most often happens to
be women, but here on statesideit doesn't necessarily have to
(17:13):
be the trailblazing spouse, itcould be a woman in transition,
for a multitude of reasons.
How do you meet them wherethey're at?
In my case it was in this,engulfed of grief, because we
did such good jobs at beingparents, they left.
That's the reality of it andthat's the goal.
(17:36):
Yeah, that's the goal.
When you are really really goodparents, yeah, that's the goal.
When you are really really goodparents, they leave.
You're all.
Get them to understand thatthey're in grief.
(18:03):
Because for me, it shocked me.
I didn't realize that I was saduntil one day I literally was
like why is my face wet?
And I touched my cheek andrealized I was crying.
(18:24):
Oh, and I was like I'm crying.
And then I was like I'm cryingand then I realized I was in, I
was grieving, that's it.
I was that out of touch from myemotions because I was too busy
.
Being busy that I was, that'show much I was shutting myself
(18:47):
off.
I know I'm not by myself,because that's what mothers do
to survive.
But how do you bridge that gap?
How do you shorten that?
How do you make your clientsget to realization faster so
(19:08):
they can process through thegrief faster, so they can get to
the other side faster?
Michelle (19:23):
One thing is that when we hear the word grief, we
usually think death.
Sometimes we might thinkdivorce, but usually it's death
of a loved one, of a pet, of acelebrity, of an artist that has
touched our lives.
And you know, we think, oh, youknow, what will the world be
like without them?
What will the world be likewithout them?
We don't think of grief interms of loss, whether that's a
(19:48):
child that has moved away orloss of a career.
First it's awareness.
I mean, as women, it is reallyhard for us to sit down and be
still and be quiet.
It just is Getting someone toat least understand that this
might be possibly what's goingon.
(20:10):
So let's sit down and be stilland be quiet.
And if you can't do that, getout a piece of paper and just
write down everything that's inyour head, just everything.
Doesn't matter if it's thegrocery list or oh goodness,
Bobby needs a new pair of shoesor just whatever it is, because
(20:30):
you need to get that out of yourhead so that you can get back
to yourself, because all thosethings are sitting on top of
your feelings.
Now some women are a littlefurther down the road in the
process, but they can't seetheir way out.
And so if you're living abroadand you're trying to get back to
(20:51):
a career path, I mean there aresome very real obstacles, like
you know visa status andgovernmental regulations, and so
it's figuring out what ispossible that you might want to
do Now here in the States.
You know, let's say, you werelaid off from your job and
there's no opportunity to getanother one like it.
(21:15):
It takes for some people it'svery out of the box thinking to
think outside of whateverthey've been doing, whatever
industry they've been in.
And so there's a lot ofimagination, a lot of dreaming,
thinking of possibilities.
Did I say brainstorming?
I don't want to say putting ahappy face on it, because it's
(21:36):
not.
This is hard work.
You know you've been doingsomething for so long and now
that's over.
What's next?
Being able to see that thereare possibilities for you.
Life is not over.
There's something maybe evenbetter on the other side of this
(21:57):
.
And so, again, it kind ofdepends on where the person is
in their grieving process, or ifthey even know they're grieving
, if they're in the anger partof grieving.
So it depends on the individual.
Audra (22:13):
What have you been able to make them see?
I mean what has been the otherside, if you will.
I mean, once you get throughthe hard part, which the hard
part is the grief and the hardpart is the anger hard part,
which the hard part is the griefand the hard part is the anger
(22:34):
and the anger is really anger,is the grief turned up to 10 is
what anger is.
But once you get past that,have you been able to get them
to see the possibility and startliving in the possibility?
Michelle (22:52):
I have a friend who was not happy about moving and
we were.
I mean, she was really angry.
She did it because she knew itwas good for the family.
And I asked her, I said know,it was good for the family.
(23:15):
I asked her, I said is youranger good for the family?
And so we were talking and whenit came down to it, she was not
really happy with the job.
She left Like she was not overthe moon about it.
All she knew was that she washaving to leave everything
behind.
(23:40):
And as we talked she said youknow, michelle, I have like
since I was young, I've alwayswanted to play tennis.
She said now, the dream when Iwas little was to play tennis
professionally.
I was little was to play tennisprofessionally.
She said, no, obviously that'sthat ship has sailed.
I said, well, has it?
I said, no, you're not going tobe Serena Williams.
But I said there's a tenniscourt and a tennis pro and
there's, you know anyway.
(24:02):
So basically, she, that's whatshe did.
She poured her life into tennisand now she's back in the US.
She's kept up.
The tennis has now foundsomething else that she's moved
on to because she didn't want totry to figure out how to be in
the same industry and do thesame thing, because what she
(24:24):
realized was she wasn't reallythat happy doing that job anyway
.
And so she found this went backto a dream that she had.
Audra (24:33):
She used it as a vehicle to bridge the gap, so she was
able to find happiness insomething that she originally
dreamed about, to help bridgethe gap, to find something else
that she can dream about.
That's something that we couldall do.
(24:56):
Find something to bridge thegap until you can find the next
spot on where you're supposed togo.
What about women that justcan't see their way out, that
they feel like they're juststuck, that they're like there's
, that they've been like?
(25:16):
The harder they try, the morestuck they get?
Specifically here in the US,the economy is starting to take
a really hard hit and there area lot of women, especially 40
(25:38):
plus, that are findingthemselves looking for work
Again.
Unfortunately, it always seemsto hit 40 plus women the hardest
.
I don't know why, but it alwaysis, and these women are trying
very hard and I know lots ofthem that they seem like the
harder they try, the more theyget stuck.
How do we encourage them?
Michelle (26:01):
Also, many times these women are single and they have
children and there's no othersupport around and so that is a
really tough place to be and Ifind that just sitting with them
and just listening is the firststep, because they have no one
(26:24):
there listening or trying tounderstand or that can empathize
.
Listening or trying tounderstand or that can empathize
and to try to make a careerchange can be risky if you're
over 40 single mom or just over40 female.
So it takes a different kind ofintention.
(26:45):
Because you know trailblazingspouse yeah, she probably has
resources.
Because you know trailblazingspouse yeah, she probably has
(27:05):
resources, maybe resources tospare.
But when we look at this otherdemographic, there's probably
not a lot to spare.
So that's be able to see what'son the other side.
But you can gently startexploring the possibilities,
even if they don't quite believeyet.
But yeah, so building trustwith the client is very
important, because having some,letting someone help you think
(27:27):
through the possibilities, canbe quite vulnerable.
Audra (27:31):
Now you do this one-on-one for individual
clients, but I'm a strongbeliever in doing this for each
other.
How can you help us aslisteners, how can you guide us
to do this for each other?
Michelle (27:52):
Yeah, so I do one-on-one but I also do group
coaching.
Personally, I think that's aricher experience for everyone
in the group Because not onlyare you getting some guidance,
but also you're there withothers who maybe don't have the
(28:13):
same exact problem.
But I promise you're probablyfeeling some of the same things.
You're feeling the pressure,you're feeling despondent or
angry.
Community is everything itreally is, thing it really is.
And if you don't have community, the first step is reaching out
(28:35):
, and that can be hard.
I've been the new girl many,many times and it is a skill to
put yourself out there and say,hey, I think I would like to get
to know you.
Let's have coffee or a Zoomdate or whatever it is.
Finding one or two people thatyou trust and can sit and talk
(29:00):
with, sit and listen, that's thefirst step.
Audra (29:04):
Michelle, I think what you are doing is such a
remarkable gift because it's notsomething that is, first of all
, readily available and I don'tthink that people would even
think about it, because thesethings are all things that we
sit in silence about and wedon't typically want to talk
(29:27):
about, because grief is notsomething that people like to
talk about outwardly, especiallywhen we're grieving about
things that people should justassume that we should be happy
about, because, like you saidbefore, people just assume that
grief only comes with death anddivorce, and grief is a spectrum
(29:48):
of many different things and itcan be the it's just grief is
the end of something and we justdon't talk about it enough.
So I think that what you aredoing is very, very special and
something that we should talkabout more often, especially
(30:08):
with our community.
We should talk about more often, especially with our community,
especially with other women, sowe can make this not be so
taboo and so other women can seethat it's normal and that we
don't have to suffer in silence.
Michelle (30:23):
And you hit on something, and you said it
earlier too the appearance ofbeing okay.
I think we can all say thatwe've done that before.
We've.
We've wanted to look OK and weknow we're not OK on the inside.
Well, if that's true for me,that's probably true for you and
it's probably true for theperson next door, and I mean, I
(30:47):
get it it's.
It's hard to be vulnerable,it's hard to admit that things
aren't okay and I mean, you know, I try to make lemons, lemons,
I try to make lemonade out oflemons and I try to see what
good came out of COVID.
(31:07):
Well, this, this is not one ofthem.
We have become even moreisolated and even more kind of
stoic, and the sense ofcommunity has broken down even
more.
But, yeah, realizing I knowthat sometimes I'm not okay and
that probably means other peopleare in the same boat as well.
Audra (31:28):
I would agree.
I recognized in myself thatwhen I walk around in public
that I have developed thisinvisible bubble around myself,
and I think that that startedbecause of the mask that we were
wearing and we were trying tostay six feet apart.
Michelle (32:19):
And we, you know, we're trying to stay six feet
apart, even though we're notstaying six feet apart anymore.
Somehow I have not given thatup and I didn't recognize that
until just this week.
I thought, oh my goodness, I'mwalking around this planet with
this invisible bubble around methat I didn't even realize I was
doing until just now, and it'snow just in its 2024.
Well, yeah, I'm from the Southand we talked to everybody, or
at least we used to and theother day I was in the
supermarket and someone justrandomly asked me a question and
I thought, oh yeah, it's OK.
And so that interaction withpeople and letting people in, I
(32:43):
think, is a skill we have tobring back.
Audra (32:48):
Yeah, we've kind of we've forgotten how to be with each
other.
We've forgotten how to do that,and I agree we need to bring
that back.
Michelle, you have been just adelight and I'm so, I'm so
enamored with the work that youdo, because it certainly is
(33:09):
needed and we don't have enoughof it.
So I'm so appreciative of thework that you're putting out in
the world, and this is the timeof the show that I want to give
you an opportunity where you getto have an intimate moment
directly with the audience,because I want to give you the
opportunity that you can givethem a lasting thought that they
(33:31):
can ruminate with and take withthem throughout the day.
So the mic is yours.
Michelle (33:37):
Thank you, audra.
So, as the audience is mainlywomen, that's who I'm speaking
to.
We can do anything, but wecan't do everything.
But we can't do everything andthere are going to be times that
life just doesn't go the way weexpect and there's change,
(33:58):
there's seismic change, andthat's hard and that's okay.
We have to grieve, we have toget through it, but on the other
side is a gift and I justencourage you, wherever you are
(34:19):
in the process, to remember thatthere is a gift on the other
side.
Audra (34:25):
Even though it doesn't feel like it, change does have
some gifts.
Yes, even though it doesn'tfeel like it, change does have
some gifts.
Yes, even though it doesn'tfeel like it at the time.
Michelle, where can theaudience reach you if they want
to reach out to you, talk to you, find out more about your
organization?
Michelle (34:44):
My preferred mode of communication is through
LinkedIn, so just look me up,michelle Gates Roberts, send me
a message, let me know that thisis where you heard me and I
would love to speak with you.
Audra (34:59):
I will make sure that I put a direct link to you in the
show notes so I'll make it easyfor everybody to reach out to
you.
Wonderful Michelle, once again,thank you for joining me this
afternoon.
You have been wonderful and Ican't thank you enough for
spending this afternoon with meand for being so vulnerable and
being vulnerable with the womenthat you assist.
Michelle (35:22):
Thank you, audra, this has been just a wonderful
conversation.
Audra (35:28):
Thank you, and I want to thank all of you once again for
listening and we'll see youagain next time.
Welcome in everyone and thank you so much for joining me
again this week.
This week I have a very, veryspecial guest because her heart
is with service for others.
My guest this week is MichelleGates Roberts, and she is in
service of others that are intransition.
(00:20):
She is a keynote speaker, acoach and a consultant and she
specializes in supportingindividuals who have to postpone
or give up their dreams thatare due to overwhelming or
systemic change.
Now think about what that means.
They have to postpone or giveup their dreams.
That must be heart-wrenching.
(00:42):
She draws on her ownexperiences and from a global
perspective, and she helpsnavigate their grief and also
explore other possibilities andgive them the courage to dream
again.
It is my pleasure and my honorto introduce to you Michelle.
Michelle, thank you so much forjoining us and welcome to the
(01:05):
show.
Michelle (01:06):
Thank you, audra.
It is an honor to be here.
You have had some of the mostamazing conversations with the
most amazing women, and to behere with you is an honor.
Audra (01:17):
Well, thank you for being here and reading through your
bio and reading those words ofhaving postponed or even pause
your dream.
That just wrecked me, because Ijust had to sit and think about
that for a moment and I thought, oh my gosh, and that is not
(01:40):
just specifically for women,that happens to men too, but I
think that happens more often towomen.
But what made you focus on that, on the idea of these
individuals and more than not,it's women that have to put
(02:04):
pause on the idea of chasingtheir dreams?
What made you focus on them?
Michelle (02:12):
Well, I would love to say that it's because I just
have a big heart.
But I experienced this, and Iexperienced it more than once.
I was newly married andstarting my career and got
pregnant a little sooner than wethought, and so I took time off
(02:33):
for that.
But that was planned, that, youknow.
That was okay, but it still putmy timeline, you know, a little
further out.
But also during this time timeI was diagnosed with a chronic
debilitating disease thatbasically I had no energy,
couldn't do anything, and theprospects of going back to my
(02:56):
career were were pretty slim atthat point, and so you can
imagine the all the feelingsthat come with that.
I was feeling isolated, I feltbad because I couldn't spend
time with my family or my smalldaughter.
But eventually I was able to,with the help of healthcare
professionals, get the diseaseunder control and finally get
(03:21):
back to my career.
And I had fought so hard,through my education, through
the disease, to get to thispoint.
It was wonderful.
I had a wonderful boss, awonderful mentor, and we had
mapped out my career path and itwas bright, it was fulfilling,
(03:42):
it was more than I dreamt itcould be.
And then my husband came homeone day and he said hey,
michelle, how would you like tomove to Japan?
And I said Well, that soundswonderful.
I was really excited.
I was excited to support hiscareer.
And then I thought, oh, wait aminute, what about my career?
(04:04):
I thought, well, ok, we'll onlybe gone for a couple of years.
And so I talked to my employerand I was like OK, well, when
you come back, we're willing tolet you pick back up where you
left off.
We stayed in Asia and we werethere for about 10 years and so,
(04:25):
as you can imagine, youremployer is not going to hold a
position for you for 10 years.
There was a lot of soulsearching going on because in
this new reality of mine, thisnew home, if you will, I wasn't
(04:50):
really allowed to do much as faras working goes, and when I
asked about it or tried toinquire, I was told well, you
know, you just do what the othertrailing spouses do.
You know, you just go to lunchand go to yoga and shop and
drink wine and take care of thefamily.
Lunch and go to yoga and shopand drink wine and take care of
the family.
And while that may sound funfor a couple of days.
(05:10):
That was not who I was calledto be.
That was not my dream for me,and over time I started to lose
my identity and kind of sunkinto isolation and depression,
and it wasn't until a littlewhile later I discovered wait a
(05:31):
minute, what I'm really goingthrough right now is grief.
I'm grieving all of the thingsthat I have left behind and
there's no way to go back andget it.
Audra (05:45):
Sure, You're an educated woman.
You dedicated a lot of yourlife to your education, to your
career.
You have a lot of experience.
You have a lot of thought and alot of intellect and a lot to
(06:06):
offer the world besides of justladies who lunch.
I like to think so, and that'sbasically what they were
inferring.
Is you should just sit stilland look pretty?
Is you should just sit stilland look pretty?
(06:30):
Your husband is taking care ofyou financially and you should
be happy, you should be gratefulbecause all of your financial
needs are being met.
You don't have to worry for athing.
Just go shopping, go have lunch, take care of your children and
don't worry.
Your pretty little head is whatI'm understanding was the
(06:53):
sentiment.
Michelle (06:57):
Yes, and people couldn't understand why I was
unhappy with that.
And then, as I got to know theother ladies who were in the
same position as myself, theyweren't really happy with it
either, but they didn't knowwhat to do, or they found small
(07:20):
ways to occupy their time, likebe a substitute teacher at the
school or be the president ofthe PTO.
And let me tell you, when youtake an educated, ambitious,
motivated, energetic careerwoman and take her out of that
position and the only otheroption for her is to be the
(07:45):
school PTO president, let metell you now, those PTOs were
some of the most successful,highly funded PTOs I've ever
seen.
And there's nothing wrong withbeing the president of the PTO
if that is your calling, ifthat's what you want to do, if
that's what you choose, notbecause that's the only thing
(08:07):
available to you.
Audra (08:10):
So it was you and these other women were grieving what
you had planned for yourself,the life that you thought you
were going to have, but you hadpaused it or delayed it because
your husband had been given anopportunity.
And then you said, okay, I willdo this for the betterment of
(08:35):
our family for now, but maybefor the hopes that at some point
I can have something later.
Michelle (08:44):
Right, some point I can have something later.
Right and again, in thebeginning we thought we would
only be gone for a couple ofyears and as our stay continued,
it was obvious I couldn't goback to that dream or that path.
And I think that's when thereal grieving started.
(09:06):
And once I came to accept it, Iwas able to look around and try
to figure out what was possibleand if there might be another
dream, something different,something maybe even better.
Audra (09:22):
So once you were able to come to an acceptance after you
finished the grieving processand you came to an acceptance,
then you decided well then, ifI'm in this spot, or I have been
in this spot, maybe others havegone through a grieving process
(09:42):
and to an acceptance.
Maybe I can be an ambassador toassist them through a
transition as well.
Maybe not in the same way thatyou had to go through a
transition, maybe they had to gothrough a transition themselves
, through a death, divorce, anillness.
You had decided that maybe youcould be that assistance to them
(10:03):
as well, that maybe you couldbe that assistance to them as
well.
What have you now done to reachout?
Michelle (10:12):
to those women to assist them through that
transition.
Well, so at first I was focusedon they call them trailing
spouses and first of all I hatethat term To trail is not
aspirational and so I've beenworking on changing that
nomenclature to trailblazingspouse and so that's kind of
(10:33):
where I started was with thatgroup of women and I say women
because there's not many men whotrail.
There are a few, and I don'tdiscriminate, but by and large
it's women.
And as I was helping thesewomen through this kind of
process of grieving andacceptance and dreaming again, I
(10:58):
realized this isn't just womenwho have had to pick up their
everything and move to anothercountry.
This is there are women allover the world living in their
hometown that either divorce orempty nest being laid off.
There are many differentreasons why our dreams are
(11:21):
paused or die, why our dreamsare paused or die.
Audra (11:29):
The pool of people that I am trying to help is much
larger now, because this is avery human thing, yeah it's
definitely something that Ihadn't considered before and I
think when you and I first met,I'd shared with you that I'm an
empty nester and I have beengoing through a grieving process
, that it completely caught meoff guard because I'm a put
(11:52):
together woman.
I am a, I am a professionalexecutive woman and I've have
been very prideful of makingsure that I appeared to have it
all together Remember the keyword there is appeared to have
it all together.
And when I came to therealization that it was not
(12:17):
going to go back the way it wasand I had a delayed reaction
because I'm an excellentcompartmentalizer I am so good
at it that I can keep myselfbusy that I have distracted
myself to the reality where Icould no longer ignore that I am
an empty nester.
The grief was overwhelming, andit's something that shouldn't
(12:49):
be, something that's sowonderful.
You would not expect to comewith such waves of grief, but it
did.
It came with overwhelming, justdrowning, just waves of grief
that just caught me by surpriseand I realized what I was
(13:12):
grieving was something that nolonger could be, and it wasn't
(13:35):
necessarily a dream that nolonger was, it was just I could
no longer have what I had hadfor the last 25 years, and that
could be a dream, but I had tolearn to focus on something else
, which I imagine is that's whatthe exact same thing that these
women were doing is.
They had to learn how to focuson something else, and a lot of
those, in a lot of those cases,it was probably focusing on
themselves for the first time,maybe ever, and for me, it was
(14:00):
the first time in 25 plus yearswhere I got the opportunity to
be a focus.
That's terrifying.
Michelle (14:10):
Yes, it is, and you brought up a good point.
Whenever this change happens.
Well, first of all, we all saythat we're okay with change.
We're not.
Change is hard, even the peoplethat claim to be the best at it
(14:31):
.
It's hard, it's a process, it'sa new reality and there are
bumps along the way and if wedon't accept that, the bumps are
even more painful.
But you mentioned like, rightafter the change happened, you
were occupied with all of theseother things and it took time to
(14:55):
figure out oh, something'sgoing on here out, oh
something's going on here, andmaybe I'm grieving this loss of
what was and can never be again.
So let's say it's atrailblazing spouse and she's
now in this new reality.
(15:17):
Well, she's very busy.
She's busy figuring out wherethe grocery store is, how to
read labels in this differentlanguage, how to get to the
school, how to do all of the.
Basically, she's having tolearn how to do everything in a
different language and thattakes a lot of time, a lot of
(15:39):
energy and maybe, besidesfinding a hair salon and a
doctor, she's not thinking aboutherself.
She has to help the familysurvive and if you're in
survival mode, you are notthinking about yourself, and I
(15:59):
think that case is the samewhether you're an empty nester,
a trailblazing spouse, have adeath in the family.
We get caught up in the everydaystuff thing I try to do is to
shorten that process of busy,busy, busy.
(16:21):
Oh here I am.
Wait a minute.
Who am I?
What am I now?
Who do I want to be?
And exploring that so that ispart of the process is getting
to the realization that you'llnever be able to step into that
river again right at that samespot.
(16:44):
And once we can get to thatgrief and acceptance, then we
can see the gift that's on theother side.
Audra (16:53):
So how do you meet them there?
How do you meet that legacy?
You meet that legacy In thiscase we're talking about women
just because for trailblazingspouses it most often happens to
be women, but here on statesideit doesn't necessarily have to
(17:13):
be the trailblazing spouse, itcould be a woman in transition,
for a multitude of reasons.
How do you meet them wherethey're at?
In my case it was in this,engulfed of grief, because we
did such good jobs at beingparents, they left.
That's the reality of it andthat's the goal.
(17:36):
Yeah, that's the goal.
When you are really really goodparents, yeah, that's the goal.
When you are really really goodparents, they leave.
You're all.
Get them to understand thatthey're in grief.
(18:03):
Because for me, it shocked me.
I didn't realize that I was saduntil one day I literally was
like why is my face wet?
And I touched my cheek andrealized I was crying.
(18:24):
Oh, and I was like I'm crying.
And then I was like I'm cryingand then I realized I was in, I
was grieving, that's it.
I was that out of touch from myemotions because I was too busy
.
Being busy that I was, that'show much I was shutting myself
(18:47):
off.
I know I'm not by myself,because that's what mothers do
to survive.
But how do you bridge that gap?
How do you shorten that?
How do you make your clientsget to realization faster so
(19:08):
they can process through thegrief faster, so they can get to
the other side faster?
Michelle (19:23):
One thing is that when we hear the word grief, we
usually think death.
Sometimes we might thinkdivorce, but usually it's death
of a loved one, of a pet, of acelebrity, of an artist that has
touched our lives.
And you know, we think, oh, youknow, what will the world be
like without them?
What will the world be likewithout them?
We don't think of grief interms of loss, whether that's a
(19:48):
child that has moved away orloss of a career.
First it's awareness.
I mean, as women, it is reallyhard for us to sit down and be
still and be quiet.
It just is Getting someone toat least understand that this
might be possibly what's goingon.
(20:10):
So let's sit down and be stilland be quiet.
And if you can't do that, getout a piece of paper and just
write down everything that's inyour head, just everything.
Doesn't matter if it's thegrocery list or oh goodness,
Bobby needs a new pair of shoesor just whatever it is, because
(20:30):
you need to get that out of yourhead so that you can get back
to yourself, because all thosethings are sitting on top of
your feelings.
Now some women are a littlefurther down the road in the
process, but they can't seetheir way out.
And so if you're living abroadand you're trying to get back to
(20:51):
a career path, I mean there aresome very real obstacles, like
you know visa status andgovernmental regulations, and so
it's figuring out what ispossible that you might want to
do Now here in the States.
You know, let's say, you werelaid off from your job and
there's no opportunity to getanother one like it.
(21:15):
It takes for some people it'svery out of the box thinking to
think outside of whateverthey've been doing, whatever
industry they've been in.
And so there's a lot ofimagination, a lot of dreaming,
thinking of possibilities.
Did I say brainstorming?
I don't want to say putting ahappy face on it, because it's
(21:36):
not.
This is hard work.
You know you've been doingsomething for so long and now
that's over.
What's next?
Being able to see that thereare possibilities for you.
Life is not over.
There's something maybe evenbetter on the other side of this
(21:57):
.
And so, again, it kind ofdepends on where the person is
in their grieving process, or ifthey even know they're grieving
, if they're in the anger partof grieving.
So it depends on the individual.
Audra (22:13):
What have you been able to make them see?
I mean what has been the otherside, if you will.
I mean, once you get throughthe hard part, which the hard
part is the grief and the hardpart is the anger hard part,
which the hard part is the griefand the hard part is the anger
(22:34):
and the anger is really anger,is the grief turned up to 10 is
what anger is.
But once you get past that,have you been able to get them
to see the possibility and startliving in the possibility?
Michelle (22:52):
I have a friend who was not happy about moving and
we were.
I mean, she was really angry.
She did it because she knew itwas good for the family.
And I asked her, I said know,it was good for the family.
(23:15):
I asked her, I said is youranger good for the family?
And so we were talking and whenit came down to it, she was not
really happy with the job.
She left Like she was not overthe moon about it.
All she knew was that she washaving to leave everything
behind.
(23:40):
And as we talked she said youknow, michelle, I have like
since I was young, I've alwayswanted to play tennis.
She said now, the dream when Iwas little was to play tennis
professionally.
I was little was to play tennisprofessionally.
She said, no, obviously that'sthat ship has sailed.
I said, well, has it?
I said, no, you're not going tobe Serena Williams.
But I said there's a tenniscourt and a tennis pro and
there's, you know anyway.
(24:02):
So basically, she, that's whatshe did.
She poured her life into tennisand now she's back in the US.
She's kept up.
The tennis has now foundsomething else that she's moved
on to because she didn't want totry to figure out how to be in
the same industry and do thesame thing, because what she
(24:24):
realized was she wasn't reallythat happy doing that job anyway
.
And so she found this went backto a dream that she had.
Audra (24:33):
She used it as a vehicle to bridge the gap, so she was
able to find happiness insomething that she originally
dreamed about, to help bridgethe gap, to find something else
that she can dream about.
That's something that we couldall do.
(24:56):
Find something to bridge thegap until you can find the next
spot on where you're supposed togo.
What about women that justcan't see their way out, that
they feel like they're juststuck, that they're like there's
, that they've been like?
(25:16):
The harder they try, the morestuck they get?
Specifically here in the US,the economy is starting to take
a really hard hit and there area lot of women, especially 40
(25:38):
plus, that are findingthemselves looking for work
Again.
Unfortunately, it always seemsto hit 40 plus women the hardest
.
I don't know why, but it alwaysis, and these women are trying
very hard and I know lots ofthem that they seem like the
harder they try, the more theyget stuck.
How do we encourage them?
Michelle (26:01):
Also, many times these women are single and they have
children and there's no othersupport around and so that is a
really tough place to be and Ifind that just sitting with them
and just listening is the firststep, because they have no one
(26:24):
there listening or trying tounderstand or that can empathize
.
Listening or trying tounderstand or that can empathize
and to try to make a careerchange can be risky if you're
over 40 single mom or just over40 female.
So it takes a different kind ofintention.
(26:45):
Because you know trailblazingspouse yeah, she probably has
resources.
Because you know trailblazingspouse yeah, she probably has
(27:05):
resources, maybe resources tospare.
But when we look at this otherdemographic, there's probably
not a lot to spare.
So that's be able to see what'son the other side.
But you can gently startexploring the possibilities,
even if they don't quite believeyet.
But yeah, so building trustwith the client is very
important, because having some,letting someone help you think
(27:27):
through the possibilities, canbe quite vulnerable.
Audra (27:31):
Now you do this one-on-one for individual
clients, but I'm a strongbeliever in doing this for each
other.
How can you help us aslisteners, how can you guide us
to do this for each other?
Michelle (27:52):
Yeah, so I do one-on-one but I also do group
coaching.
Personally, I think that's aricher experience for everyone
in the group Because not onlyare you getting some guidance,
but also you're there withothers who maybe don't have the
(28:13):
same exact problem.
But I promise you're probablyfeeling some of the same things.
You're feeling the pressure,you're feeling despondent or
angry.
Community is everything itreally is, thing it really is.
And if you don't have community, the first step is reaching out
(28:35):
, and that can be hard.
I've been the new girl many,many times and it is a skill to
put yourself out there and say,hey, I think I would like to get
to know you.
Let's have coffee or a Zoomdate or whatever it is.
Finding one or two people thatyou trust and can sit and talk
(29:00):
with, sit and listen, that's thefirst step.
Audra (29:04):
Michelle, I think what you are doing is such a
remarkable gift because it's notsomething that is, first of all
, readily available and I don'tthink that people would even
think about it, because thesethings are all things that we
sit in silence about and wedon't typically want to talk
(29:27):
about, because grief is notsomething that people like to
talk about outwardly, especiallywhen we're grieving about
things that people should justassume that we should be happy
about, because, like you saidbefore, people just assume that
grief only comes with death anddivorce, and grief is a spectrum
(29:48):
of many different things and itcan be the it's just grief is
the end of something and we justdon't talk about it enough.
So I think that what you aredoing is very, very special and
something that we should talkabout more often, especially
(30:08):
with our community.
We should talk about more often, especially with our community,
especially with other women, sowe can make this not be so
taboo and so other women can seethat it's normal and that we
don't have to suffer in silence.
Michelle (30:23):
And you hit on something, and you said it
earlier too the appearance ofbeing okay.
I think we can all say thatwe've done that before.
We've.
We've wanted to look OK and weknow we're not OK on the inside.
Well, if that's true for me,that's probably true for you and
it's probably true for theperson next door, and I mean, I
(30:47):
get it it's.
It's hard to be vulnerable,it's hard to admit that things
aren't okay and I mean, you know, I try to make lemons, lemons,
I try to make lemonade out oflemons and I try to see what
good came out of COVID.
(31:07):
Well, this, this is not one ofthem.
We have become even moreisolated and even more kind of
stoic, and the sense ofcommunity has broken down even
more.
But, yeah, realizing I knowthat sometimes I'm not okay and
that probably means other peopleare in the same boat as well.
Audra (31:28):
I would agree.
I recognized in myself thatwhen I walk around in public
that I have developed thisinvisible bubble around myself,
and I think that that startedbecause of the mask that we were
wearing and we were trying tostay six feet apart.
Michelle (32:19):
And we, you know, we're trying to stay six feet
apart, even though we're notstaying six feet apart anymore.
Somehow I have not given thatup and I didn't recognize that
until just this week.
I thought, oh my goodness, I'mwalking around this planet with
this invisible bubble around methat I didn't even realize I was
doing until just now, and it'snow just in its 2024.
Well, yeah, I'm from the Southand we talked to everybody, or
at least we used to and theother day I was in the
supermarket and someone justrandomly asked me a question and
I thought, oh yeah, it's OK.
And so that interaction withpeople and letting people in, I
(32:43):
think, is a skill we have tobring back.
Audra (32:48):
Yeah, we've kind of we've forgotten how to be with each
other.
We've forgotten how to do that,and I agree we need to bring
that back.
Michelle, you have been just adelight and I'm so, I'm so
enamored with the work that youdo, because it certainly is
(33:09):
needed and we don't have enoughof it.
So I'm so appreciative of thework that you're putting out in
the world, and this is the timeof the show that I want to give
you an opportunity where you getto have an intimate moment
directly with the audience,because I want to give you the
opportunity that you can givethem a lasting thought that they
(33:31):
can ruminate with and take withthem throughout the day.
So the mic is yours.
Michelle (33:37):
Thank you, audra.
So, as the audience is mainlywomen, that's who I'm speaking
to.
We can do anything, but wecan't do everything.
But we can't do everything andthere are going to be times that
life just doesn't go the way weexpect and there's change,
(33:58):
there's seismic change, andthat's hard and that's okay.
We have to grieve, we have toget through it, but on the other
side is a gift and I justencourage you, wherever you are
(34:19):
in the process, to remember thatthere is a gift on the other
side.
Audra (34:25):
Even though it doesn't feel like it, change does have
some gifts.
Yes, even though it doesn'tfeel like it, change does have
some gifts.
Yes, even though it doesn'tfeel like it at the time.
Michelle, where can theaudience reach you if they want
to reach out to you, talk to you, find out more about your
organization?
Michelle (34:44):
My preferred mode of communication is through
LinkedIn, so just look me up,michelle Gates Roberts, send me
a message, let me know that thisis where you heard me and I
would love to speak with you.
Audra (34:59):
I will make sure that I put a direct link to you in the
show notes so I'll make it easyfor everybody to reach out to
you.
Wonderful Michelle, once again,thank you for joining me this
afternoon.
You have been wonderful and Ican't thank you enough for
spending this afternoon with meand for being so vulnerable and
being vulnerable with the womenthat you assist.
Michelle (35:22):
Thank you, audra, this has been just a wonderful
conversation.
Audra (35:28):
Thank you, and I want to thank all of you once again for
listening and we'll see youagain next time.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!