February 28, 2024 • 39 mins
This podcast episode features a conversation with Bracha Goetz, a Harvard-educated author of over 40 children's books and a memoir focused on her personal journey to finding joy through spiritual enlightenment. Goetz and I share our experiences as INFJs, exploring the unique perspective this personality type brings to our lives, including a deep intuition and a drive to help others. The conversation delves into Goetz's struggle with recognizing her spiritual needs and how fulfilling these needs led to happiness. We discuss the importance of living a meaningful life, deep connections, and the role of gratitude in overcoming a scarcity mindset. Goetz introduces the 'pleasure ladder,' a concept from ancient mystical wisdom that outlines five levels of pleasure correlating with the soul's elements, offering a pathway out of addiction and towards abundance. Additionally, the episode touches on the transformative power of dream interpretation in uncovering subconscious beliefs and behaviors.
Free download of The Pleasure Ladder chart from: https://www.goetzbookshop.com.
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Music: An Mhaighdean Mhara, Margot Krimmel, solo harp from Ever the New Time Comes. https://www.boulderharp.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Megan Mary (00:00):
Welcome.
(00:01):
Today I have Bracha Goetz.
She is a Harvard educated authorof 41 books that help children's
souls shine and a candid memoirabout her journey to joy.
Thank you for being here today,Bracha.
I really appreciate
Bracha Goetz (00:19):
it.
Thank you.
I'm so happy to be with you.
Megan Mary (00:23):
One of the very special things about Bracha is
that she is the same personalitytype as me.
So we were both tickled when wefound that out and I'm so happy
to have another INFJ here todaythat I want to talk about that
in depth and let our listenerswho are that connect with that
(00:46):
and who don't know what thatmeans find out a little bit more
about us through that.
So basically, I'm just going totalk for a little bit about the
INFJ thing.
And then, and then I'm going tosay some, some characteristics
of INFJs and we'll talk aboutit.
So for people that don't knowwhat we're talking about there's
the Myers Briggs personalityassessment.
(01:07):
And we are basically one of thevery rare types.
It is 1 percent of the femalepopulation.
So.
Yes, there you have it.
Now, the primary function, ofcourse, of INFJs is introverted
intuition.
And so, of course, that lets usreally hold a special place in
(01:31):
the world because we are sointuitive.
And INFJs are often referred toas counselors and nurturers for
that reason.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhat you feel the INFJ is, and
then I'm going to read someother statements that really
resonated with me and we'll
Bracha Goetz (01:52):
play with those.
Yeah, and also like, this isMyers Briggs we're really strong
idealists.
If I had to pick a word aboutmyself, that's who I am.
I, in some ways, I'm almostbarely in this physical world.
Because I'm, I, I live so muchin a spiritual world.
(02:13):
So actually for many years I wassuffering because I was never
taught about the spiritualworld.
And I, I felt something was somissing from my life, but I had
no idea what it was because Iwas only taught about this
physical world.
And so I didn't even understandthe desperation that I was
(02:36):
feeling and the intense hunger.
Where was it coming from?
I didn't know I was a soul.
So learning, finally getting thespiritual nourishment I was
craving, totally changed my lifeand brought me so much
happiness.
It, it, it really fills my lifeup every day with joy now
(02:56):
because I'm getting thatspiritual nourishment.
Without it.
It's really hard for me tosurvive in the world.
Megan Mary (03:03):
Yes, and I resonate very much with that feeling like
you're not really completely inthe physical world.
And people going, come backhere, come back to this, this
is, this is reality.
It's like, well, maybe, maybe itis, but it's an illusion also,
Bracha Goetz (03:20):
right?
Yes, exactly.
And the J part of that I N F J.
Is interesting in that we liketo get things done.
We like to accomplish things.
even in this world.
But what we like to accomplishis kind of in the spiritual vein
(03:41):
of helping people of healingpeople of making the world a
better place.
That's what our lives aredevoted to.
And sometimes what's it's eithera J or a P at the end and the P
people sometimes might have aharder time in accomplishing,
but we're that part of us isconcrete.
(04:02):
We like to get the things done.
That helped the world be better.
Megan Mary (04:07):
Yes, and that plays perfectly into the first bullet
point on my list, which isintrinsic drive to help others
realize their potential.
Yes.
It's so spot on.
Bracha Goetz (04:21):
I gotta tell you this.
On my application to go toHarvard, I didn't even know why
Harvard wanted, accepted me andwanted me there, but on my
application, in fact, for allthe Ivy League schools, that's
what I wrote about, how we'vegot to utilize the human
potential.
I didn't even know, you know, Ididn't know about this INFTP
(04:41):
stuff back then.
But that my whole essay wasabout actualizing our potential.
Yeah.
Well,
Megan Mary (04:49):
that's why they admitted you, of course.
The second thing I have is cravea meaningful life and deep
connections.
And that is.
Though there's two things there,and both things are really
important.
Having meaningful life, having,living a purpose, knowing what
your purpose is, knowing thatyou're making a difference, but
(05:11):
also the deep connections, whichis part of the reason that I
created this podcast and calledit subtitled deep discussions,
because that's the kind ofconversation that I want to
have.
I would rather have one small.
Moment of a deep conversationthan an hour of polite
conversation.
Bracha Goetz (05:29):
Oh, it's unbearable.
It's actually unbearable forpeople like us, you know, I
love.
Podcasts.
Because it's we have a DMCimmediately.
That's all we do is talk aboutthe most important stuff.
I feel like podcasts were madefor people like us.
Megan Mary (05:48):
Absolutely.
Yes.
And I'm so glad to havediscovered them for a while.
But I mean, so Complex, complex,you know, we are very complex
characters and we live in aworld of hidden meaning and
possibilities.
Now, if that isn't true, if thatisn't what drove me to dream
(06:08):
analysis, I don't know what elsewould have.
Just that whole desire, knowingthat there is a hidden meaning.
Gifted with deep insight intopeople is the last bullet point,
which, of course, yes.
Bracha Goetz (06:26):
Beautiful, beautiful.
I'm so grateful that you foundyour way to this.
It's so rare.
What you're doing is such a rarething in this world.
I never met another dreamanalyst before, you know, and
this is something so importantin, in my religion in Judaism in
(06:48):
the Hebrew Bible.
Dreams play a really significantrole.
So this is fascinating to me tomeet you and and just learning
about what you do.
Megan Mary (07:01):
Thank you.
Thank you.
That means a lot.
Well, I want the listeners tohear about your enlightenment
journey too.
And you mentioned a little bitabout it at the beginning that
you had a spiritual hunger thatyou did not realize that you
had.
And you, you wrote aautobiography about that.
(07:24):
So talk a little minute.
First, let me ask you, what doesenlightenment mean to you?
Bracha Goetz (07:32):
Enlightenment.
You know, when things werereally difficult for me, the
whole world seemed gray.
Nothing mattered.
Everything lost its color.
And then, you know, it, itbecame like in the, in the
movie, The Wizard of Oz, whenthe colors come back,
(07:55):
everything's vivid andbeautiful.
That's enlightenment to me.
The light is shining out.
From everything now, it's awhole different kind of world
than that world that I barelywanted to live in anymore, where
nothing mattered and everythingwas gray.
Yes,
Megan Mary (08:15):
that is a beautiful analogy.
I love that.
So talk a little bit about thescarcity mindset versus the
abundance mindset.
I, I love this concept.
I feel like so many, so manypeople, including so many women
struggle with this.
(08:36):
Mindset maintaining thatabundance mindset and how the
scarcity mindset can really justaffect your whole life course
when you're when you're clingingto that.
Bracha Goetz (08:47):
Yes, clinging.
That's a good word.
That's the word.
When there's a scarcity, you areclinging to any little pleasure
you get.
And a very easy pleasure to getis the pleasure from food.
Let me food is designed to bepleasurable.
(09:08):
I mean, it could have been wetook a tasteless pill every day
and that would fuel us or itcould have been.
We didn't need any food at alland we just survived like that.
Instead, it was designed withall these natural, amazing,
pleasurable experiences for usto consume.
(09:30):
But what happens is.
When we feel that there's ascarcity of pleasure in our life
and we're eating somethingpleasurable, we just keep
stuffing our faces with it.
If we feel that sense ofscarcity, that there's not
enough pleasure in our life, itdoesn't happen as much.
(09:51):
With the natural pleasures,like, like an orange, it's, it's
hard to eat a whole bag oforanges.
That's not what happens, but aperson will eat a whole tub of
ice cream, a whole bag of potatochips, a whole box of chocolate
chip cookies, because that food,it's designed to be.
(10:14):
as delicious as possible and asaddictive as possible.
Well, this, the natural foodsare designed to be as delicious
as possible and as nutritious aspossible.
They're, they're totallydifferent substances.
So we, we can't even blameourselves when we overeat
(10:34):
because We're just our bodiesare responding in the way the
food is kind of programming usto respond in an addictive way.
So, that, that just that thoughtalone can take away a lot of the
shame and guilt that a personfeels when they're overeating
because their bodies justresponding in the way that The
food is, is making the personrespond, actually.
(10:57):
But anyway, back to what we weresaying, which is that the
feeling like there's not enoughpleasure in this world is one of
the things that makes a personovereat or take other addictive
substances into their lives oraddictive behaviors.
They get stuck there as a way ofcomforting themselves and as a
(11:21):
coping mechanism to.
not face the emptiness within.
Yes.
Megan Mary (11:31):
And like you said, that can happen in any, any form
of addiction and also anybehavioral pattern, even if it's
not full blown addiction in thatway.
Yes.
Bracha Goetz (11:43):
When we feel like there's not enough of something
or we're stressed or panicked orworried about the lack of
something.
And we're focused on the stateof lack, then we can't at the
same time be focused on thestate of gratitude.
(12:05):
Yes, yes, we can't have thosetwo feelings at the same moment.
If we're being grateful, thenwe're not being miserable in
that moment.
It's amazing.
It's all like you said, thefocus, what we focus on grows.
That's what gets bigger.
(12:26):
And, so that, that focus on whatwe're lacking in life.
just causes us to feel even aslight disappointment.
A person gets in the habit ofjust filling up with that
comforting food to cover upthose feelings of
disappointment.
And it just becomes, after awhile, it's just a habit of in
(12:50):
life.
But when we become aware of thathabit, Then we can start to come
out of it.
And also the recognition thatthere's truly an abundance of
ways to bring pleasure into ourlives at any moment changes
everything.
I, I just want to mention in my600 pound life, that, that
(13:12):
Netflix show, they all say thesame thing.
This is the only thing bringingme pleasure anymore, the food.
So it's, it's about.
Opening up to the possibilitiesof all the other ways.
We can bring pleasure into ourlives at any moment.
Megan Mary (13:32):
Yes.
And I connecting with, as yousaid, acknowledging the fact
that we're even in that mindsetbecause that's not obvious and
it's a continual process.
And I find with dreaminterpretation that can.
very often uncover thosesubconscious feelings that you
(13:57):
don't realize that you'rewalking around with in your
waking life, you may think,well, I don't feel that way.
And I'm okay with the way thingsare.
But in the back of your mind,you're actually not you're
actually focused on some othersense of Construct the way your
life is perceived.
(14:18):
And I found the stories oftentell that very well.
Bracha Goetz (14:24):
Have you?
It's such an awesome healingthing that you're doing.
And like I said, so few peopleare doing this.
I mean, you probably know otherpeople, but I don't know of any.
And it's such.
It's getting to that otherhemisphere, and again, that's a
better, it's, it's such ahealing way to come out of where
(14:45):
we're, where we're stuck.
Megan Mary (14:47):
So beautiful.
And it holds that for us.
It had, it holds that potential.
It holds that possibility withthrough dream work.
We can uncover those unconsciousblocks.
We can reprogram those repressedfeelings that we, that we're
(15:07):
holding and we can heal throughthe dream work because the more
that we understand what's goingon in the dreams, the more we
can address it, the more that itaffects our waking life, the
more that then affects thesleeping life and the dreaming
life.
And it really has anevolutionary, as you said,
(15:28):
healing quality and
Bracha Goetz (15:30):
capacity.
I want to ask you, Have youhelped women specifically with
their overeating problemsthrough their dreams, that
you've seen them take on adifferent lifestyle and approach
to eating through, through yourwork?
Megan Mary (15:48):
I have dealt with situations where for one reason
or another, their mindset ofscarcity or insecurity or other
mindsets are informing andpromulgating their behavior in
their waking life and they don'trealize it.
So they don't realize thatthere's this undercurrent going
(16:12):
on.
And it certainly could benefitthat.
I just haven't had theopportunity to work with that
specific client yet, but there'sso many potential applications
for DreamWork.
And that certainly is one, whichis part of the reason that I
wanted to discuss it with youtoday, because I feel like so
many women struggle with that.
And this is, this is another.
(16:34):
layer of self care and self careis so important and it's even
more empowering when that selfcare can be done with yourself
from answers inside yourselfversus someone's trying to apply
something to your problem andyou struggling to integrate that
into yourself.
(16:55):
Why not just try and.
get that answer from withinyourself.
It is already part of you.
It is just separated.
And that integration of thatother self and those other
feelings and those otherpreconceptions then leads to a
(17:16):
wholeness, which in itself canbe very healing.
Bracha Goetz (17:20):
Yes.
I'm just, if you don't mind, Iknow I'm supposed to, but I
just, I'm curious to know.
Like what other what changesyou've seen in people's lives
through your work like otheraddictive behaviors that have
decreased or what types ofprogress you've seen.
Megan Mary (17:42):
I think that, in general, it's, it has the, I've
seen that it can uncoversubconscious.
I'll call them blocks, butthere's a lot of better ways to
refer to that, that they are notaware of.
So it could be a feeling ofinsecurity or lack of self
(18:03):
confidence or basically lostmany times.
So having dreams about beinglost or being chased are very
common.
And I'm not going to say thatthey mean the same thing for
everyone because they don't.
But usually if you're beingchased, obviously you're, you're
(18:25):
running from something, usuallypart of yourself.
If you're feeling, if you'refeeling lost in a dream or that
you've lost your possessions oryou've lost track of someone,
that is your disconnection withthat part of yourself.
And many times I talk about thisin a, in another episode.
(18:49):
If you have a dream that yourteeth are falling out, that is
also a very common dream thatpeople report and that can have
its basis in loss.
It's a, it's a feeling of loss,and it's also can be a feeling
of embarrassment or instability,transition, so many, so many
(19:13):
different layers to that.
And so our dreams really.
speak to us in our own uniquelanguage, even though there's a
lot of commonalities amongst,amongst dreams.
And sometimes people can easilycategorize them and say, Oh,
well, I had a dream about beingchased.
(19:33):
So it's just another one ofthose chase dreams.
And it's like everybody else'schase dreams.
And it's like, well, no, it'svery specific.
What did you have on?
What was the weather like?
Was it night?
Was it day?
Where were you?
How did you feel?
Who was it?
Who was it?
Did you know them?
Did you turn around and confrontthem?
Where did you go when you ranfrom them?
(19:53):
There's so many details thatunravel the true meaning for
you.
Bracha Goetz (20:00):
Beautiful.
Yeah.
I love this.
Thank you.
Yes.
Megan Mary (20:06):
And you mentioned that, you're obviously very,
very intrigued in them andthey're part of your culture.
Have you had experiences wherein your journey, where your
dreams helped you or.
Tipped you off or let you seesomething you didn't know was
there.
Bracha Goetz (20:27):
When I was back in college, I was in some type of
seminar where you had to keep adream journal for a week.
And I, I don't usually remembermy dreams.
So, I was up to the sixth dayand I had nothing in my journal.
I didn't remember any of thedreams.
(20:49):
So that night I went to sleepand I said, please come up with
something.
I've got to hand in something.
Well, I sat there and I wrotefor like an hour.
I remembered this whole seriesof dreams that night.
It was so fascinating.
I guess I just really forcedmyself to have a consciousness
to remember it.
(21:10):
And I don't remember much aboutwhat I wrote.
I just remember one aspect thatstill stays with me.
It was my mother.
That she was like not happy, butwhen she'd greet people at the
door, she had a big smile and Ijust I felt the phoniness of it
and it bothered me so much.
(21:31):
I was so upset by her being twodifferent faces.
That's all I remember.
From that whole complicateddream that I had, but that's the
part that stayed with
Megan Mary (21:42):
me.
It's interesting the part thatstays with you.
Yes.
And I find that storyfascinating.
I love that you didn't rememberthem, which is a situation for
so many people.
So many.
Yeah.
And I didn't realize this goinginto it because I do.
And I, wow.
But I didn't realize that somany people were interested, but
didn't know how and didn't.
(22:05):
And it really is.
That's where affirmations likewhat you did make a huge
difference.
If you go to sleep and whenyou're going to sleep, say, I
will remember my dream tonight.
I will remember my dream.
That is one of the ways you canactually induce that recall.
And it is a trained skill, likeanything else, like typing on a
(22:29):
keyboard or, you know, anythingelse that you, once you start
doing it, the more you do it,the more you remember.
So I think it's great that youfinally.
figured out how to will thatbecause that is really what so
many people would need to do tokickstart this process and to be
able to harness that power.
(22:49):
You have to be able to remember
Bracha Goetz (22:50):
them first.
Yeah.
It was funny.
I was like desperate.
I got to hand in something,please.
I was amazed.
That it worked,
Megan Mary (22:59):
Yes.
And that same, that sameapplication is one of the
methods and one of thetechniques for lucid dreaming.
I don't know if you've had oneof those, but those can be
really, really healing, really.
transformative because yourealize that you're dreaming and
you can actually influence thecourse of the dream.
(23:19):
And one of the techniques forinducing lucid dreaming is the
affirmations before you go tosleep that Just translate the
put the insert the word lucid.
I will have a lucid dreamtonight.
Well, over and over and there'smany other techniques, but that
is one of them where you'rebasically telling yourself, OK,
this is I can influence myreality.
(23:42):
This is what's going to happen.
And amazing,
Bracha Goetz (23:45):
amazing.
Although I don't remember mydreams.
Usually what does happen to meis that I wake up in the
morning.
Where like a whole book iswritten, I mean, and I didn't
know how to write it before Iwent to sleep, I get up, I have
a pad by my bed, and I'mscribbling furiously in the
dark, you know, so I don't wakemy husband up and I want to
(24:09):
write it all down as it'scoming.
It's amazing to me that almostalways it happens.
Early, early in the morningbefore it's even light before
dawn, all the books cometogether the words I was missing
everything, everything that Ineed.
It just comes.
Megan Mary (24:28):
Yes.
And as an, as an author with somany books, which is very
impressive.
I love hearing that, because I,Think that the, that's part of
the reason I created the dreamjourney called the treasure box,
which works both with luciddreaming, but it also works in
just tapping dreams for yourcreativity because that's, our
(24:50):
brain is still working whilewe're sleeping and it's really
working on things for us.
And it gives us that clarity andaccess to that creativity that
the busy waking mind cannot,cannot access.
And I, have been inspired by mydreams and my writing.
(25:11):
And I know I've, of course,there's so many great authors
who have as well.
So I, I love, I love thathearing about
Bracha Goetz (25:20):
that.
Yeah, it's fascinating to me.
I can get the title of theentire book because it's a
picture book.
So I can get the whole thingjust like that.
And also then I remember things.
In the morning that happenedduring the day, but no way was I
going to remember it and thereit is right there for me to
(25:42):
remember I love how that works.
What is going on in the mind allthe processing fascinating
integrating integrating it's.
Yeah, it's amazing.
We spend so much of our livesdreaming.
And yet we don't even not awareof what's going on
Megan Mary (26:00):
there.
Yes, absolutely.
That's what I find socaptivating about it is that
it's not just this inventedthing or invented system where
we're going to say okay andapply it to our lives.
It's happening.
Whether you pay attention to itor not, it's happening, and
everyone is doing it whetherthey think they are or not.
(26:21):
Even if they say, Oh, I don'tdream.
I've never dreamed.
I don't remember you are stilldreaming.
You just haven't, you know,transformation is about how much
we're willing to see.
And you have to be willing tothin that veil and to have that
curiosity and to have thatbravery, even sometimes to
(26:46):
uncover those.
parts of yourself.
It really is a personal growthjourney.
Bracha Goetz (26:55):
Yes.
Yes.
Beautiful.
And I guess there's a lot ofchildlike parts to it too.
I imagine because it's thatplayful side, it's the
imaginative side of you.
It's the, it's a flowing part ofyou that, is awesome to be able
(27:16):
to capture glimpses of.
Megan Mary (27:20):
Yes.
And I assume that talk, tell ushow it led you to what you're
doing now, because you'vewritten over 40 children's
books.
And so how did your, from yourmemoir, I know your, what your
memoir after, but from yourmemoir to the children's books
(27:40):
and that trajectory, how did youarrive at that point where you
decided that's what you weregoing to do?
Bracha Goetz (27:47):
Yeah, well, my goal is to write the books that
I wanted to have as a childbooks that explain from the
beginning of life that we'respiritual beings that need
nourishment every day, just likeour bodies need nourishment.
So some of my books are about.
(28:11):
Healing the body to a booksabout the prevention of abuse
books about disabilities, how toinclude Children with
disabilities, books aboutswimming safely, eating in a
healthy way, exercising allthese things.
Teaching children about howamazing our fruits and
(28:31):
vegetables are like theawesomeness, but other books are
just spiritual like theinvisible book.
There's so many things that webelieve in that are invisible
like time, like gravity, likeour feelings, our thoughts.
So, It becomes less far fetchedthen as we realize that to
(28:56):
believe that we too areinvisible spiritual beings.
When you see the effects in theworld of all these forces, you
know they exist the same thingwith our souls.
So I'm, I'm loving teaching thisto children in a concrete way
and also teaching gratitudeskills.
So.
(29:17):
So they can learn thesehappiness skills throughout the
rest of their lives when youwere when you teach these habits
early on, then the road becomeseasier to.
to to keep those habits goingonce they're implanted in
children.
Megan Mary (29:35):
Yeah.
That's wonderful.
Yes.
When we're younger, we do havecloser access.
I feel to that and we lose it aswe get older, partly because we
feel like we need to lose it.
We need to set it aside and wecompletely lose touch with that
perspective that we might've hadis as a child and that
(29:57):
acceptance of the unseen.
And I, I love what you saidabout that because I feel like
we always, like you said,there's things that like wifi,
for example, and you know, thatwe take for granted that we say,
well, yes, of course, this ishow it works.
(30:19):
And that's normal and part oflife and everything.
Well, that's energy.
And so are we, and when you walkinto a room and you, and you
walk into a group of people, youcan feel their energy and they
can feel yours before you sayanything.
That's part of how wecommunicate with animals and
everything else.
And to pretend that that doesn'texist and that that doesn't have
(30:43):
a place in our wellness and inour purpose is missing a whole
part of our existence.
Bracha Goetz (30:53):
Yes.
And we're, we're to recognizethat we're all connected to the
same source energy and to eachother.
It's, it's, it's just such ajoyful feeling.
And all of that is what made mebegin to trust again in life.
Trust in myself.
(31:16):
Recognize that there's a goodpurpose to everything.
Eventual good purpose toeverything.
So that's, how I began to trustagain in the world and not need
to be having the bingesconstantly because I wasn't so
(31:38):
fearful of this world anymore,afraid of
Megan Mary (31:41):
it, and not feeling so separate as
Bracha Goetz (31:44):
yes, exactly, because an addictions, they add
to that separation, you feelestrangement, it closes you into
a prison that gets narrower andnarrower, and the prison is made
of our thoughts.
And the thing is like that wehave the key and part of the
(32:07):
key, I think that you'reoffering.
It is within our subconscious,in our dreams, unconscious, and
I found in ancient mysticalwisdom too, that key to how to
get out of the prison andreconnect, form those
connections again.
Megan Mary (32:28):
Absolutely.
So what are three takeaways thatyou hope listeners learn from
this
Bracha Goetz (32:35):
interview?
Okay, so I did want to share.
I don't know if there's time forme to share about the pleasure
ladder, but that really affectedmy life.
Okay.
The lowest physical, there'sfive levels to the pleasure
ladder, which I think correspondto our by fingers, we can bring
(32:57):
pleasure into our lives at anymoment.
And these five levels correspondto the five levels of the human
soul.
So the lowest level, this is notfor me.
This is again, ancient mysticalwisdom.
So the lowest level of the soulis the part that's connected to
our body.
This is the part that when weEnjoy these natural, physical,
(33:20):
sensual pleasures.
They have the potential tonourish our bodies as well as
our souls.
When we experience them withgratitude, that's the key.
So when we experience themwithout gratitude, it doesn't
uplift our soul in the same way.
And love is the next level up.
(33:42):
How can that be totallyempowering?
You'd think it's dependent onsomeone else, love.
But it's really focusing on thevirtues of another.
Even in prison, a person couldfocus on a grandmother that did
a kindness and be uplifted witha warm emotional feeling of
love.
(34:02):
That inspires them so we canbring love into our lives at any
moment by focusing on thevirtues of another.
So first it's a physical thing,then another being, and then
meaning, doing something goodand meaningful in the world,
something positive.
We are, we are giving back withgratitude that we can give.
(34:28):
I was on a show where a personsaid he was, he ate two slices
of pizza and he was about toplow through the rest of the box
because he was just sittingthere lonely.
A knock on the door and hisneighbor wants his help with
something for two minutes.
He comes back after.
(34:49):
He doesn't want the pizzaanymore.
He filled up.
He just filled up his soul withgratitude, giving back to
someone.
He could put the rest in thefridge for the next day.
So that's, we can all relate tothat.
Higher than that creativity.
When we're in a state of beingcreative, we don't notice time
(35:12):
is passing.
We don't feel like eating orsleeping.
We're in a whole nother zone ofpleasure.
And the highest level istranscendence.
That's when we transcend our ownlimitations.
We make a tiny crack in a badhabit.
We, we do something new wehaven't done before.
(35:34):
Something positive.
It's also what we feel under astarry, starry sky when we know
we're a part of a greateruniverse.
It's that feeling that ittranscends the barriers between
us.
So each level up brings moreconnection.
And this is how we can break outof our addictions, break out of
(35:59):
our habits, bring the sense ofabundance into our lives and
overcome that.
Sense of scarcity, and peoplecould put this on their fridge
on their on their, you know,cabinets to remind them that
there's an abundance of ways.
So, yeah, and this isdownloadable from my website,
(36:23):
where it's in more much moredetails about how each level.
Is helpful.
So that's something that I loveto share with people.
Yeah.
Megan Mary (36:35):
Thank you for sharing that.
I think that's extremelypowerful and I'm so glad that I
will put a link in the shownotes so that everyone can
download that chart as well.
I think having that handy is agreat reminder of all the
different ways that we can dothis and that I love the
transcendence piece, of course,that's The road to
(36:58):
enlightenment.
Once you get out of your ownway, set yourself aside, realize
that it's bigger than you.
And then you're not so separateanymore.
Also, then you're part of abigger thing that, that supports
you.
It's not just, it's not givingyourself over to it and kind of
(37:19):
losing your identity, but it'sactually supporting your
Existence.
Bracha Goetz (37:26):
Beautiful, beautiful.
It's that feeling of alonenessthat gets people to feel that
scarcity of pleasure.
It's recognizing the connectionthat we're always connected that
it changes everything.
Yes,
Megan Mary (37:44):
it does.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here today, Bracha.
I had a wonderful time chattingwith you about so many different
things and I, I know ourlisteners will love hearing all
about your wisdom as well.
Bracha Goetz (37:57):
Thank you so much.
A great pleasure to be with you,Megan.
Thank you.
Welcome.
(00:01):
Today I have Bracha Goetz.
She is a Harvard educated authorof 41 books that help children's
souls shine and a candid memoirabout her journey to joy.
Thank you for being here today,Bracha.
I really appreciate
Bracha Goetz (00:19):
it.
Thank you.
I'm so happy to be with you.
Megan Mary (00:23):
One of the very special things about Bracha is
that she is the same personalitytype as me.
So we were both tickled when wefound that out and I'm so happy
to have another INFJ here todaythat I want to talk about that
in depth and let our listenerswho are that connect with that
(00:46):
and who don't know what thatmeans find out a little bit more
about us through that.
So basically, I'm just going totalk for a little bit about the
INFJ thing.
And then, and then I'm going tosay some, some characteristics
of INFJs and we'll talk aboutit.
So for people that don't knowwhat we're talking about there's
the Myers Briggs personalityassessment.
(01:07):
And we are basically one of thevery rare types.
It is 1 percent of the femalepopulation.
So.
Yes, there you have it.
Now, the primary function, ofcourse, of INFJs is introverted
intuition.
And so, of course, that lets usreally hold a special place in
(01:31):
the world because we are sointuitive.
And INFJs are often referred toas counselors and nurturers for
that reason.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhat you feel the INFJ is, and
then I'm going to read someother statements that really
resonated with me and we'll
Bracha Goetz (01:52):
play with those.
Yeah, and also like, this isMyers Briggs we're really strong
idealists.
If I had to pick a word aboutmyself, that's who I am.
I, in some ways, I'm almostbarely in this physical world.
Because I'm, I, I live so muchin a spiritual world.
(02:13):
So actually for many years I wassuffering because I was never
taught about the spiritualworld.
And I, I felt something was somissing from my life, but I had
no idea what it was because Iwas only taught about this
physical world.
And so I didn't even understandthe desperation that I was
(02:36):
feeling and the intense hunger.
Where was it coming from?
I didn't know I was a soul.
So learning, finally getting thespiritual nourishment I was
craving, totally changed my lifeand brought me so much
happiness.
It, it, it really fills my lifeup every day with joy now
(02:56):
because I'm getting thatspiritual nourishment.
Without it.
It's really hard for me tosurvive in the world.
Megan Mary (03:03):
Yes, and I resonate very much with that feeling like
you're not really completely inthe physical world.
And people going, come backhere, come back to this, this
is, this is reality.
It's like, well, maybe, maybe itis, but it's an illusion also,
Bracha Goetz (03:20):
right?
Yes, exactly.
And the J part of that I N F J.
Is interesting in that we liketo get things done.
We like to accomplish things.
even in this world.
But what we like to accomplishis kind of in the spiritual vein
(03:41):
of helping people of healingpeople of making the world a
better place.
That's what our lives aredevoted to.
And sometimes what's it's eithera J or a P at the end and the P
people sometimes might have aharder time in accomplishing,
but we're that part of us isconcrete.
(04:02):
We like to get the things done.
That helped the world be better.
Megan Mary (04:07):
Yes, and that plays perfectly into the first bullet
point on my list, which isintrinsic drive to help others
realize their potential.
Yes.
It's so spot on.
Bracha Goetz (04:21):
I gotta tell you this.
On my application to go toHarvard, I didn't even know why
Harvard wanted, accepted me andwanted me there, but on my
application, in fact, for allthe Ivy League schools, that's
what I wrote about, how we'vegot to utilize the human
potential.
I didn't even know, you know, Ididn't know about this INFTP
(04:41):
stuff back then.
But that my whole essay wasabout actualizing our potential.
Yeah.
Well,
Megan Mary (04:49):
that's why they admitted you, of course.
The second thing I have is cravea meaningful life and deep
connections.
And that is.
Though there's two things there,and both things are really
important.
Having meaningful life, having,living a purpose, knowing what
your purpose is, knowing thatyou're making a difference, but
(05:11):
also the deep connections, whichis part of the reason that I
created this podcast and calledit subtitled deep discussions,
because that's the kind ofconversation that I want to
have.
I would rather have one small.
Moment of a deep conversationthan an hour of polite
conversation.
Bracha Goetz (05:29):
Oh, it's unbearable.
It's actually unbearable forpeople like us, you know, I
love.
Podcasts.
Because it's we have a DMCimmediately.
That's all we do is talk aboutthe most important stuff.
I feel like podcasts were madefor people like us.
Megan Mary (05:48):
Absolutely.
Yes.
And I'm so glad to havediscovered them for a while.
But I mean, so Complex, complex,you know, we are very complex
characters and we live in aworld of hidden meaning and
possibilities.
Now, if that isn't true, if thatisn't what drove me to dream
(06:08):
analysis, I don't know what elsewould have.
Just that whole desire, knowingthat there is a hidden meaning.
Gifted with deep insight intopeople is the last bullet point,
which, of course, yes.
Bracha Goetz (06:26):
Beautiful, beautiful.
I'm so grateful that you foundyour way to this.
It's so rare.
What you're doing is such a rarething in this world.
I never met another dreamanalyst before, you know, and
this is something so importantin, in my religion in Judaism in
(06:48):
the Hebrew Bible.
Dreams play a really significantrole.
So this is fascinating to me tomeet you and and just learning
about what you do.
Megan Mary (07:01):
Thank you.
Thank you.
That means a lot.
Well, I want the listeners tohear about your enlightenment
journey too.
And you mentioned a little bitabout it at the beginning that
you had a spiritual hunger thatyou did not realize that you
had.
And you, you wrote aautobiography about that.
(07:24):
So talk a little minute.
First, let me ask you, what doesenlightenment mean to you?
Bracha Goetz (07:32):
Enlightenment.
You know, when things werereally difficult for me, the
whole world seemed gray.
Nothing mattered.
Everything lost its color.
And then, you know, it, itbecame like in the, in the
movie, The Wizard of Oz, whenthe colors come back,
(07:55):
everything's vivid andbeautiful.
That's enlightenment to me.
The light is shining out.
From everything now, it's awhole different kind of world
than that world that I barelywanted to live in anymore, where
nothing mattered and everythingwas gray.
Yes,
Megan Mary (08:15):
that is a beautiful analogy.
I love that.
So talk a little bit about thescarcity mindset versus the
abundance mindset.
I, I love this concept.
I feel like so many, so manypeople, including so many women
struggle with this.
(08:36):
Mindset maintaining thatabundance mindset and how the
scarcity mindset can really justaffect your whole life course
when you're when you're clingingto that.
Bracha Goetz (08:47):
Yes, clinging.
That's a good word.
That's the word.
When there's a scarcity, you areclinging to any little pleasure
you get.
And a very easy pleasure to getis the pleasure from food.
Let me food is designed to bepleasurable.
(09:08):
I mean, it could have been wetook a tasteless pill every day
and that would fuel us or itcould have been.
We didn't need any food at alland we just survived like that.
Instead, it was designed withall these natural, amazing,
pleasurable experiences for usto consume.
(09:30):
But what happens is.
When we feel that there's ascarcity of pleasure in our life
and we're eating somethingpleasurable, we just keep
stuffing our faces with it.
If we feel that sense ofscarcity, that there's not
enough pleasure in our life, itdoesn't happen as much.
(09:51):
With the natural pleasures,like, like an orange, it's, it's
hard to eat a whole bag oforanges.
That's not what happens, but aperson will eat a whole tub of
ice cream, a whole bag of potatochips, a whole box of chocolate
chip cookies, because that food,it's designed to be.
(10:14):
as delicious as possible and asaddictive as possible.
Well, this, the natural foodsare designed to be as delicious
as possible and as nutritious aspossible.
They're, they're totallydifferent substances.
So we, we can't even blameourselves when we overeat
(10:34):
because We're just our bodiesare responding in the way the
food is kind of programming usto respond in an addictive way.
So, that, that just that thoughtalone can take away a lot of the
shame and guilt that a personfeels when they're overeating
because their bodies justresponding in the way that The
food is, is making the personrespond, actually.
(10:57):
But anyway, back to what we weresaying, which is that the
feeling like there's not enoughpleasure in this world is one of
the things that makes a personovereat or take other addictive
substances into their lives oraddictive behaviors.
They get stuck there as a way ofcomforting themselves and as a
(11:21):
coping mechanism to.
not face the emptiness within.
Yes.
Megan Mary (11:31):
And like you said, that can happen in any, any form
of addiction and also anybehavioral pattern, even if it's
not full blown addiction in thatway.
Yes.
Bracha Goetz (11:43):
When we feel like there's not enough of something
or we're stressed or panicked orworried about the lack of
something.
And we're focused on the stateof lack, then we can't at the
same time be focused on thestate of gratitude.
(12:05):
Yes, yes, we can't have thosetwo feelings at the same moment.
If we're being grateful, thenwe're not being miserable in
that moment.
It's amazing.
It's all like you said, thefocus, what we focus on grows.
That's what gets bigger.
(12:26):
And, so that, that focus on whatwe're lacking in life.
just causes us to feel even aslight disappointment.
A person gets in the habit ofjust filling up with that
comforting food to cover upthose feelings of
disappointment.
And it just becomes, after awhile, it's just a habit of in
(12:50):
life.
But when we become aware of thathabit, Then we can start to come
out of it.
And also the recognition thatthere's truly an abundance of
ways to bring pleasure into ourlives at any moment changes
everything.
I, I just want to mention in my600 pound life, that, that
(13:12):
Netflix show, they all say thesame thing.
This is the only thing bringingme pleasure anymore, the food.
So it's, it's about.
Opening up to the possibilitiesof all the other ways.
We can bring pleasure into ourlives at any moment.
Megan Mary (13:32):
Yes.
And I connecting with, as yousaid, acknowledging the fact
that we're even in that mindsetbecause that's not obvious and
it's a continual process.
And I find with dreaminterpretation that can.
very often uncover thosesubconscious feelings that you
(13:57):
don't realize that you'rewalking around with in your
waking life, you may think,well, I don't feel that way.
And I'm okay with the way thingsare.
But in the back of your mind,you're actually not you're
actually focused on some othersense of Construct the way your
life is perceived.
(14:18):
And I found the stories oftentell that very well.
Bracha Goetz (14:24):
Have you?
It's such an awesome healingthing that you're doing.
And like I said, so few peopleare doing this.
I mean, you probably know otherpeople, but I don't know of any.
And it's such.
It's getting to that otherhemisphere, and again, that's a
better, it's, it's such ahealing way to come out of where
(14:45):
we're, where we're stuck.
Megan Mary (14:47):
So beautiful.
And it holds that for us.
It had, it holds that potential.
It holds that possibility withthrough dream work.
We can uncover those unconsciousblocks.
We can reprogram those repressedfeelings that we, that we're
(15:07):
holding and we can heal throughthe dream work because the more
that we understand what's goingon in the dreams, the more we
can address it, the more that itaffects our waking life, the
more that then affects thesleeping life and the dreaming
life.
And it really has anevolutionary, as you said,
(15:28):
healing quality and
Bracha Goetz (15:30):
capacity.
I want to ask you, Have youhelped women specifically with
their overeating problemsthrough their dreams, that
you've seen them take on adifferent lifestyle and approach
to eating through, through yourwork?
Megan Mary (15:48):
I have dealt with situations where for one reason
or another, their mindset ofscarcity or insecurity or other
mindsets are informing andpromulgating their behavior in
their waking life and they don'trealize it.
So they don't realize thatthere's this undercurrent going
(16:12):
on.
And it certainly could benefitthat.
I just haven't had theopportunity to work with that
specific client yet, but there'sso many potential applications
for DreamWork.
And that certainly is one, whichis part of the reason that I
wanted to discuss it with youtoday, because I feel like so
many women struggle with that.
And this is, this is another.
(16:34):
layer of self care and self careis so important and it's even
more empowering when that selfcare can be done with yourself
from answers inside yourselfversus someone's trying to apply
something to your problem andyou struggling to integrate that
into yourself.
(16:55):
Why not just try and.
get that answer from withinyourself.
It is already part of you.
It is just separated.
And that integration of thatother self and those other
feelings and those otherpreconceptions then leads to a
(17:16):
wholeness, which in itself canbe very healing.
Bracha Goetz (17:20):
Yes.
I'm just, if you don't mind, Iknow I'm supposed to, but I
just, I'm curious to know.
Like what other what changesyou've seen in people's lives
through your work like otheraddictive behaviors that have
decreased or what types ofprogress you've seen.
Megan Mary (17:42):
I think that, in general, it's, it has the, I've
seen that it can uncoversubconscious.
I'll call them blocks, butthere's a lot of better ways to
refer to that, that they are notaware of.
So it could be a feeling ofinsecurity or lack of self
(18:03):
confidence or basically lostmany times.
So having dreams about beinglost or being chased are very
common.
And I'm not going to say thatthey mean the same thing for
everyone because they don't.
But usually if you're beingchased, obviously you're, you're
(18:25):
running from something, usuallypart of yourself.
If you're feeling, if you'refeeling lost in a dream or that
you've lost your possessions oryou've lost track of someone,
that is your disconnection withthat part of yourself.
And many times I talk about thisin a, in another episode.
(18:49):
If you have a dream that yourteeth are falling out, that is
also a very common dream thatpeople report and that can have
its basis in loss.
It's a, it's a feeling of loss,and it's also can be a feeling
of embarrassment or instability,transition, so many, so many
(19:13):
different layers to that.
And so our dreams really.
speak to us in our own uniquelanguage, even though there's a
lot of commonalities amongst,amongst dreams.
And sometimes people can easilycategorize them and say, Oh,
well, I had a dream about beingchased.
(19:33):
So it's just another one ofthose chase dreams.
And it's like everybody else'schase dreams.
And it's like, well, no, it'svery specific.
What did you have on?
What was the weather like?
Was it night?
Was it day?
Where were you?
How did you feel?
Who was it?
Who was it?
Did you know them?
Did you turn around and confrontthem?
Where did you go when you ranfrom them?
(19:53):
There's so many details thatunravel the true meaning for
you.
Bracha Goetz (20:00):
Beautiful.
Yeah.
I love this.
Thank you.
Yes.
Megan Mary (20:06):
And you mentioned that, you're obviously very,
very intrigued in them andthey're part of your culture.
Have you had experiences wherein your journey, where your
dreams helped you or.
Tipped you off or let you seesomething you didn't know was
there.
Bracha Goetz (20:27):
When I was back in college, I was in some type of
seminar where you had to keep adream journal for a week.
And I, I don't usually remembermy dreams.
So, I was up to the sixth dayand I had nothing in my journal.
I didn't remember any of thedreams.
(20:49):
So that night I went to sleepand I said, please come up with
something.
I've got to hand in something.
Well, I sat there and I wrotefor like an hour.
I remembered this whole seriesof dreams that night.
It was so fascinating.
I guess I just really forcedmyself to have a consciousness
to remember it.
(21:10):
And I don't remember much aboutwhat I wrote.
I just remember one aspect thatstill stays with me.
It was my mother.
That she was like not happy, butwhen she'd greet people at the
door, she had a big smile and Ijust I felt the phoniness of it
and it bothered me so much.
(21:31):
I was so upset by her being twodifferent faces.
That's all I remember.
From that whole complicateddream that I had, but that's the
part that stayed with
Megan Mary (21:42):
me.
It's interesting the part thatstays with you.
Yes.
And I find that storyfascinating.
I love that you didn't rememberthem, which is a situation for
so many people.
So many.
Yeah.
And I didn't realize this goinginto it because I do.
And I, wow.
But I didn't realize that somany people were interested, but
didn't know how and didn't.
(22:05):
And it really is.
That's where affirmations likewhat you did make a huge
difference.
If you go to sleep and whenyou're going to sleep, say, I
will remember my dream tonight.
I will remember my dream.
That is one of the ways you canactually induce that recall.
And it is a trained skill, likeanything else, like typing on a
(22:29):
keyboard or, you know, anythingelse that you, once you start
doing it, the more you do it,the more you remember.
So I think it's great that youfinally.
figured out how to will thatbecause that is really what so
many people would need to do tokickstart this process and to be
able to harness that power.
(22:49):
You have to be able to remember
Bracha Goetz (22:50):
them first.
Yeah.
It was funny.
I was like desperate.
I got to hand in something,please.
I was amazed.
That it worked,
Megan Mary (22:59):
Yes.
And that same, that sameapplication is one of the
methods and one of thetechniques for lucid dreaming.
I don't know if you've had oneof those, but those can be
really, really healing, really.
transformative because yourealize that you're dreaming and
you can actually influence thecourse of the dream.
(23:19):
And one of the techniques forinducing lucid dreaming is the
affirmations before you go tosleep that Just translate the
put the insert the word lucid.
I will have a lucid dreamtonight.
Well, over and over and there'smany other techniques, but that
is one of them where you'rebasically telling yourself, OK,
this is I can influence myreality.
(23:42):
This is what's going to happen.
And amazing,
Bracha Goetz (23:45):
amazing.
Although I don't remember mydreams.
Usually what does happen to meis that I wake up in the
morning.
Where like a whole book iswritten, I mean, and I didn't
know how to write it before Iwent to sleep, I get up, I have
a pad by my bed, and I'mscribbling furiously in the
dark, you know, so I don't wakemy husband up and I want to
(24:09):
write it all down as it'scoming.
It's amazing to me that almostalways it happens.
Early, early in the morningbefore it's even light before
dawn, all the books cometogether the words I was missing
everything, everything that Ineed.
It just comes.
Megan Mary (24:28):
Yes.
And as an, as an author with somany books, which is very
impressive.
I love hearing that, because I,Think that the, that's part of
the reason I created the dreamjourney called the treasure box,
which works both with luciddreaming, but it also works in
just tapping dreams for yourcreativity because that's, our
(24:50):
brain is still working whilewe're sleeping and it's really
working on things for us.
And it gives us that clarity andaccess to that creativity that
the busy waking mind cannot,cannot access.
And I, have been inspired by mydreams and my writing.
(25:11):
And I know I've, of course,there's so many great authors
who have as well.
So I, I love, I love thathearing about
Bracha Goetz (25:20):
that.
Yeah, it's fascinating to me.
I can get the title of theentire book because it's a
picture book.
So I can get the whole thingjust like that.
And also then I remember things.
In the morning that happenedduring the day, but no way was I
going to remember it and thereit is right there for me to
(25:42):
remember I love how that works.
What is going on in the mind allthe processing fascinating
integrating integrating it's.
Yeah, it's amazing.
We spend so much of our livesdreaming.
And yet we don't even not awareof what's going on
Megan Mary (26:00):
there.
Yes, absolutely.
That's what I find socaptivating about it is that
it's not just this inventedthing or invented system where
we're going to say okay andapply it to our lives.
It's happening.
Whether you pay attention to itor not, it's happening, and
everyone is doing it whetherthey think they are or not.
(26:21):
Even if they say, Oh, I don'tdream.
I've never dreamed.
I don't remember you are stilldreaming.
You just haven't, you know,transformation is about how much
we're willing to see.
And you have to be willing tothin that veil and to have that
curiosity and to have thatbravery, even sometimes to
(26:46):
uncover those.
parts of yourself.
It really is a personal growthjourney.
Bracha Goetz (26:55):
Yes.
Yes.
Beautiful.
And I guess there's a lot ofchildlike parts to it too.
I imagine because it's thatplayful side, it's the
imaginative side of you.
It's the, it's a flowing part ofyou that, is awesome to be able
(27:16):
to capture glimpses of.
Megan Mary (27:20):
Yes.
And I assume that talk, tell ushow it led you to what you're
doing now, because you'vewritten over 40 children's
books.
And so how did your, from yourmemoir, I know your, what your
memoir after, but from yourmemoir to the children's books
(27:40):
and that trajectory, how did youarrive at that point where you
decided that's what you weregoing to do?
Bracha Goetz (27:47):
Yeah, well, my goal is to write the books that
I wanted to have as a childbooks that explain from the
beginning of life that we'respiritual beings that need
nourishment every day, just likeour bodies need nourishment.
So some of my books are about.
(28:11):
Healing the body to a booksabout the prevention of abuse
books about disabilities, how toinclude Children with
disabilities, books aboutswimming safely, eating in a
healthy way, exercising allthese things.
Teaching children about howamazing our fruits and
(28:31):
vegetables are like theawesomeness, but other books are
just spiritual like theinvisible book.
There's so many things that webelieve in that are invisible
like time, like gravity, likeour feelings, our thoughts.
So, It becomes less far fetchedthen as we realize that to
(28:56):
believe that we too areinvisible spiritual beings.
When you see the effects in theworld of all these forces, you
know they exist the same thingwith our souls.
So I'm, I'm loving teaching thisto children in a concrete way
and also teaching gratitudeskills.
So.
(29:17):
So they can learn thesehappiness skills throughout the
rest of their lives when youwere when you teach these habits
early on, then the road becomeseasier to.
to to keep those habits goingonce they're implanted in
children.
Megan Mary (29:35):
Yeah.
That's wonderful.
Yes.
When we're younger, we do havecloser access.
I feel to that and we lose it aswe get older, partly because we
feel like we need to lose it.
We need to set it aside and wecompletely lose touch with that
perspective that we might've hadis as a child and that
(29:57):
acceptance of the unseen.
And I, I love what you saidabout that because I feel like
we always, like you said,there's things that like wifi,
for example, and you know, thatwe take for granted that we say,
well, yes, of course, this ishow it works.
(30:19):
And that's normal and part oflife and everything.
Well, that's energy.
And so are we, and when you walkinto a room and you, and you
walk into a group of people, youcan feel their energy and they
can feel yours before you sayanything.
That's part of how wecommunicate with animals and
everything else.
And to pretend that that doesn'texist and that that doesn't have
(30:43):
a place in our wellness and inour purpose is missing a whole
part of our existence.
Bracha Goetz (30:53):
Yes.
And we're, we're to recognizethat we're all connected to the
same source energy and to eachother.
It's, it's, it's just such ajoyful feeling.
And all of that is what made mebegin to trust again in life.
Trust in myself.
(31:16):
Recognize that there's a goodpurpose to everything.
Eventual good purpose toeverything.
So that's, how I began to trustagain in the world and not need
to be having the bingesconstantly because I wasn't so
(31:38):
fearful of this world anymore,afraid of
Megan Mary (31:41):
it, and not feeling so separate as
Bracha Goetz (31:44):
yes, exactly, because an addictions, they add
to that separation, you feelestrangement, it closes you into
a prison that gets narrower andnarrower, and the prison is made
of our thoughts.
And the thing is like that wehave the key and part of the
(32:07):
key, I think that you'reoffering.
It is within our subconscious,in our dreams, unconscious, and
I found in ancient mysticalwisdom too, that key to how to
get out of the prison andreconnect, form those
connections again.
Megan Mary (32:28):
Absolutely.
So what are three takeaways thatyou hope listeners learn from
this
Bracha Goetz (32:35):
interview?
Okay, so I did want to share.
I don't know if there's time forme to share about the pleasure
ladder, but that really affectedmy life.
Okay.
The lowest physical, there'sfive levels to the pleasure
ladder, which I think correspondto our by fingers, we can bring
(32:57):
pleasure into our lives at anymoment.
And these five levels correspondto the five levels of the human
soul.
So the lowest level, this is notfor me.
This is again, ancient mysticalwisdom.
So the lowest level of the soulis the part that's connected to
our body.
This is the part that when weEnjoy these natural, physical,
(33:20):
sensual pleasures.
They have the potential tonourish our bodies as well as
our souls.
When we experience them withgratitude, that's the key.
So when we experience themwithout gratitude, it doesn't
uplift our soul in the same way.
And love is the next level up.
(33:42):
How can that be totallyempowering?
You'd think it's dependent onsomeone else, love.
But it's really focusing on thevirtues of another.
Even in prison, a person couldfocus on a grandmother that did
a kindness and be uplifted witha warm emotional feeling of
love.
(34:02):
That inspires them so we canbring love into our lives at any
moment by focusing on thevirtues of another.
So first it's a physical thing,then another being, and then
meaning, doing something goodand meaningful in the world,
something positive.
We are, we are giving back withgratitude that we can give.
(34:28):
I was on a show where a personsaid he was, he ate two slices
of pizza and he was about toplow through the rest of the box
because he was just sittingthere lonely.
A knock on the door and hisneighbor wants his help with
something for two minutes.
He comes back after.
(34:49):
He doesn't want the pizzaanymore.
He filled up.
He just filled up his soul withgratitude, giving back to
someone.
He could put the rest in thefridge for the next day.
So that's, we can all relate tothat.
Higher than that creativity.
When we're in a state of beingcreative, we don't notice time
(35:12):
is passing.
We don't feel like eating orsleeping.
We're in a whole nother zone ofpleasure.
And the highest level istranscendence.
That's when we transcend our ownlimitations.
We make a tiny crack in a badhabit.
We, we do something new wehaven't done before.
(35:34):
Something positive.
It's also what we feel under astarry, starry sky when we know
we're a part of a greateruniverse.
It's that feeling that ittranscends the barriers between
us.
So each level up brings moreconnection.
And this is how we can break outof our addictions, break out of
(35:59):
our habits, bring the sense ofabundance into our lives and
overcome that.
Sense of scarcity, and peoplecould put this on their fridge
on their on their, you know,cabinets to remind them that
there's an abundance of ways.
So, yeah, and this isdownloadable from my website,
(36:23):
where it's in more much moredetails about how each level.
Is helpful.
So that's something that I loveto share with people.
Yeah.
Megan Mary (36:35):
Thank you for sharing that.
I think that's extremelypowerful and I'm so glad that I
will put a link in the shownotes so that everyone can
download that chart as well.
I think having that handy is agreat reminder of all the
different ways that we can dothis and that I love the
transcendence piece, of course,that's The road to
(36:58):
enlightenment.
Once you get out of your ownway, set yourself aside, realize
that it's bigger than you.
And then you're not so separateanymore.
Also, then you're part of abigger thing that, that supports
you.
It's not just, it's not givingyourself over to it and kind of
(37:19):
losing your identity, but it'sactually supporting your
Existence.
Bracha Goetz (37:26):
Beautiful, beautiful.
It's that feeling of alonenessthat gets people to feel that
scarcity of pleasure.
It's recognizing the connectionthat we're always connected that
it changes everything.
Yes,
Megan Mary (37:44):
it does.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here today, Bracha.
I had a wonderful time chattingwith you about so many different
things and I, I know ourlisteners will love hearing all
about your wisdom as well.
Bracha Goetz (37:57):
Thank you so much.
A great pleasure to be with you,Megan.
Thank you.
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