June 30, 2025 • 52 mins
Henrik Järleskog, has been on my radar for some time. He’s an active member of the ‘future of work’ community on LinkedIn, frequently contributing articles, keynotes, posts, panel discussions, podcasts appearances and more. I knew I’d have him on eventually….
And then he dropped the post … ‘Not one hand went up’
And went on to describe his team of AI agents, working for him.
His dirty dozen, cabinet, team of rivals, assistants, advisors, and worker bees, helping Henrik 3x to 4x himself as he described. From Ambinet.ai to Veed.io , the list is long and detailed.
So the time is now.
Please join me in welcoming Henrik Jarleskog to Work 20XX
We delve deep into the concept of ‘Full Stack Hospitality’ and it’s relevance in the future of work, workplaces, offices, and places where people gather. Sodexo is the 420,000+ employee behemoth you may not be familiar with, serving over 80 million consumers daily in over 45 countries, so Henrik has data, especially after being tasked to focus on the post pandemic workplace.
And then there is his AI adoption story.
While many struggle to find GenAI applications in daily life, Henrik has jumped in with both feet, taking courses, joining communities, and actively upping his game, not only in the name of future of work, but helping to define how organizations move forward with everyone brings a team of 30 assistants to work. How much faster can we go? How much more can we accomplish when 80% solutions are delivered in hours, not days?
I think you’re going to enjoy this episode.
Henrik Jarleskog: AI Squad, BarCeptionist, Full Stack Hospitality | Work 20XX podcast with Jeff Frick Ep50
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(00:00):
[Laughter]
All right
I’ll count us down
in three, two, one.
Hey welcomeback everybody.
Jeff Frick here coming to you
for another episode of Work 20XX.
And we're going across the pond to Stockholm today
for our next guest.
That’s the beauty
One of the great things
that came out of Covid iseveryone is pretty used to
doing these types of callsand it's not that strange
(00:21):
to have calls with peopleall over the world.
So thankfully
through the magicof the internet
all the way from Stockholm
he's Henrik Jarleskog, the Head of Future of Work at Sodexo.
Henrik, great to see you.
Great to see you, Jeff.
And I'm happy to be here.
And you know, we are in thisnew type of global work, right?
Right, right, And we
our paths have crossed manymany times online.
(00:43):
So it's greatto finally get to
I don’t knowmeet in person
almost in personvirtual in person, whatever we
whatever we describe this,but it certainly feels good.
Yeah, I think, you know,
you are and this podcast is
one of the OGsin this area
the future of work you know,
it was one of the first podcasts
I really started listeningto in the beginning
(01:03):
you know, when,
when the pandemicand everything hit and
I always usedto have your sessions
in my headphones,walking to work suddenly
because I used totake a train, but,
many memories ofpast sessions with you Jeff
and listening to it onmy way to work walking.
So that's great.
[Jeff] Well thank you again[Henrik] Happy to be here.
(01:24):
Thankfully Darren wasDarren Murph was
was gracious enoughto accept my invitation
for episode number one.
So I knew if I could getDarren that the
that the seas would part for me
and everyone else would be
Okay, that's legitimate. So
Sodexo
Big giantcompany.
Not everybody knows about it
certainly here in the States.
So give a quick overview of Sodexo
(01:44):
because I think it's a big behemoth
that maybe not everyone is aware of.
I think you areabsolutely right, Jeff.
You know, we areI think we are still
the 18th largest companyin the world.
When you look at the amount of employees
we exist in pretty much every country in the world
where, you know, we doa lot of food business
(02:06):
and we also dofacilities management.
We do kind of the fullworkplace spectrum.
We do itfor corporates
and we do it for the likes of
hospitals, schools, offshore, remote
We ran the Olympics games this summer.
and Roland-Garrosand
(02:27):
in the NFL stadiums where
we also take careof a lot of services,
including food and beverage.
Yeah.
So just I'm goingto put a number on it
because you're very
you're very gracious.
It's over 400,000 employees.
I mean that is a lot of people.
And over €20 billion euros of revenues
or north of that in revenue.
So that is a significant,a significant company.
(02:49):
Yeah.It's huge.
Yeah,It’s huge
Yeah.
It's a really big it's a behemoth as you say
and it's a B2B one.
Therefore, most people haven't heard the company
because we don't make
a big fuss aroundwho we are
you knowto people
but B2Bwe're really big.
So you've had this positionHead of Future Work
(03:11):
for a littlewhile and
I've heard getting ready for this.
You tell a story about asit down with the CEO
and I wonder if you could share this
because for such a company
that's been arounda long time
a very bigspecialty
in food and facilityservices and
tangential to that
to have a person focusedon the future of work
talk about thatconversation
(03:32):
because I think it showssome really progressive thinking
in the mindsof the boss.
Yeah.
I really have a vivid memory
of sitting down with the CEO
just when thepandemic had hit, right.
Because we are a B2B company.
And we diddo a lot of
and still do of coursetransactional business. So,
(03:52):
and that businessbills on
people beingin the office
serving them witheither food or
certainly receptionist services
or taking careof the buildings
cleaning the officesor the trains
or the airplanesyou know
everything altered a bit
when people wasn'tin the offices anymore.
So I sat down with theCEO at the time
(04:16):
and at the time, I was headingup strategy for Europe.
Where he said, Henrik
our industry or kind ofthe workplace industry
will never becomewhat it was
before the pandemic again.
It will change.
It will irreversibly change.
But we don't know how.
So I want you to take the lead of understanding that
(04:37):
I want you to analyze
do surveys,write whitepapers
educate yourself,us and the market
because I believehe said
if you own the problem statement
you can also becomea market maker.
This was five years ago.
So I got thattask of
really figuring out the future of work five years ago
(04:58):
but as a part timeor a double hat
with my strategy jobat the time.
Yeah, that's pretty progressive
because as you know my
my one and only all time favorite business book
‘Innovator's Dilemma’by Clayton Christiansen
I know even know how old it is now
it's probablyI don't know
40 years old30 years old.
the whole idea thatyou know
mature businesses
with smart executives
making sound business decisions
(05:20):
based on marginalimprovements
that their customers are asking for
will always miss discontinuous change
because their customersaren't asking for it.
They're askingfor better, faster,
or smarter of the thingsyou're already selling them.
So to a minute and to pluck somebody out
and say really startto think about
how this is going to change our world forever.
And own the problem statementthat's pretty progressive.
(05:42):
It is.
And I just loved it
because this is exactly how to motivatesomebody like me
because I've been doingthese kind of heavy lifts
few times before
doing the new things or trying to
infuse new type ofinnovations in markets.
Same time at my timeat Ernst and Young
where we introduced
invest in partnerships
(06:02):
instead of transactionaloutsourcing
kind of a win-win model.
I was, the same wayof looking at a market.
How can we really change it forever?
And it's reallyI would say energizing
to figure outhow to
to change for an industryto make it better.
[Jeff] Right
To build back betterfor everyone who works.
I think that's somethingthat motivates at least me.
(06:25):
[Jeff] Yeah. That's great.
So seems like one of the bigthemes in terms of the
the change
well we know that is right
in the change in the role
of what the office is andwhat the role of facilities is
has changeddramatically.
And in terms of the facilities people and what you measure
it's not so much about SGA anymore.
Nobody wants to be a cost center.
It has to be in supportof the people
(06:47):
doing the main business.
So it feelslike the
the focus has really shifted from
attendance which is stupid in the first place
to experience, right.
[Jeff] And how you deliver that experience.[Henrik] Yeah, yeah.
And coming from a food background
I think that's pretty uniqueposition to come from.
One of my favoriteshows on the internet
is Hot Ones with Sean Evans
and one of the magic formulas of that show
(07:10):
is breaking bread over shared pain.
When you break bread with somebody
you create an intimacy
and you create a type of relationship
that, you know, kind of goes back deep into our
our roots ofthe power of hospitality
and community.
So you guys are in apretty unique place
starting from foodand food as a base
(07:30):
and what that means to people
to start to help build out
some of these experience capabilities
in these facilities.
Absolutely.
And, you know,there are a few
really large companiesthat we compete with.
All of them come from different, angles.
You have the real estatecompanies who,
you know,
comes from the transactional business
of selling and buying real estate.
(07:52):
You have afew of them
coming from the cleaning business
a couple of themcoming from the
food business or safetyand security business.
But over timethey kind of
widen the portfolio
at least overthe last
21 years I've beenin this industry
or the workplace industryit has evolved over time.
It has been growingI would say
(08:12):
widening the scopefrom 3 or 4 services.
You kind of started with maybe cleaning, reception services
and lighter building maintenance.
Then you're building up moreand more services,
outdoor maintenance,grounds and landscaping,
concierge services.
And now lately, you know,it's everything is just,
(08:33):
around experiencesas you say.
How can we create
offices and workplaces to
places where peopleactually want to go
where it's meaningful to travel in
not being forced to it.So I think,
absolutelyfascinating.
And as you say for us
we are more relevant than ever
(08:55):
because breaking bread is number one, right?
Right.
On the list why people wantto meet with their peers.
They get into the officesit down
have a Swedish fika
share a little piece of breadhave some coffee.
That's really what brings relationship
to a strongerand better level.
(09:17):
Yeah.It’s a
as our mutual friendBrian Elliott loves to say, right.
Distributed doesn't mean never together.
And it's reallyabout intentional
which was my great word that Darren
you know, turned me on to years ago and so
You know, I was justat the Atlassian show.
And they talkabout their facilities
and really tryingto make them
attractive placesfor people to come.
And also to think about thingsthat you can't do at home
(09:38):
or you can't necessarilydo at a remote location
that the main office
or an office is really,really suited for.
And the frameworkthat I,
that I foundcoming out of Covid
that helps peoplethink about it is ‘off-sites.’
Everybody knows what an off-site is, right.
What makesan off-site work?
An off-siteis intentional.
You've gotobjectives.
Everybody's focused
(09:58):
who is there for a day
or two days onwhatever the problem is.
You have a varietyof different activities
over the course of your off site
and you do some work
but you do some funand you break some bread.
And then you leave itand you have objectives
and you have goals andyou've accomplished stuff so.
I always tell people‘on-site’ is the new ‘off-site’.
What arethe things
(10:19):
that you can do to your on site to make it appealing
for people to come inand do that type of work?
Really intense, high value,great delivery, community.
And it really begs for
almost this hospitality like point of view because
you do off sites often at really nice resorts
or really nice places.Well why?
Because they have all of the great resources
(10:42):
from a hospitalitypoint of view.
To deliverthat experience
so people go homeenergized, productive,
and you accomplishsome things.
Exactly you know,it's all coming back
to ‘Full-Stack Hospitality’in a way.
If you look at what happens in building today
kind of a multi-tenantbuilding
given, you know,in any city.
A lot of the timeyou get into kind of
(11:02):
an entrance hall, with ahigh loft and high ceilings.
And maybeif you’re lucky
there is a logo on the wall.
Maybe a sofa
and behind the glasswalls, you have
a couple of security guards
and they may sayhello to you.
That's pretty commonexperience when you get into
multi-tenant building, right?
So what I am doingand what we are doing
(11:22):
is completely rethinkthese areas
because what you can dois to open these areas up
in your multi-tenantbuilding, for example
create an experience
through a great dining experience.
It could be breakfastit could be lunch, dinner
It could be theSwedish fika again.
We can combineit with
(11:44):
podcast studios orpubs for meetings
where pretty muchanyone can go in.
You can combine thatwith a community host
that really creates a vibein that space day by day.
You can launch
hybrid town hall meetingswhich are seamless
from a food and beverage perspective
with the audio videojust working without hassle.
(12:05):
That type of experienceis something that
any company really wants
to have as part of a lease.
And that's also whyI think the dialogs I have
with real estate executives right now
is just completely newtype of dialog
where we as an outsourcing providerof workplace services, food and F.M.
(12:28):
we can start working directlywith the real estate owners
unlocking that valuefor the tenants in that building
because they would share that space
they would share that vibe.
[Jeff] Right.
No longerdoes any
you know, all of the companies
create their own vibe
because they can take partof something bigger.
And I think that ispart of this
full stack hospitalitymovement that I see.
(12:51):
It's a great thing.
I love that because
you know, shared services is the thing
that's transformed techin a huge way, right?
In terms of cloud,what is cloud?
It's a shared computer
It’s sharedinfrastructure.
Pay by the drink.Pay for what you use.
Don't have a big piece of investment
in an asset that you don't use all the time.
(13:11):
So are you seeing moreand more then,
you know kind of this suite of shared services
within a facility that can be used
by different tenants for whatever
you knowfor different times
when they have different demand.
Is that anincreasing
increasing way to solve
kind of the flexibilitychallenge?
Yeah, exactly.
So not everyone sitsin a multi-tenant building,
but a lot of companiesand people do.
(13:33):
A lot of companiesover the last years
they've beenrightsizing
actually shrinkingtheir space because of
because ofhybrid work.
They have too much space.
They may have utilizationcircling around maybe 30%
so they can easily get ridof, let's say 30%, 40%
without having two small,small space.
(13:54):
But what happens then isthat they also want to have
access to the larger hybridtown hall meeting spaces or
more I would say mediumlarge meeting spaces.
And they also want a restaurant
because maybe they can’t have that
in that smaller, right sized office anymore.
So they want to share that.
So in a way it's moresustainable as well
(14:16):
because you use that building for more companies
and you usethat space
you know, toa higher utilization
which is goodfor the environment too.
Right?
And it's good for the value
and the valuationof the
in the actual buildingfor the real estate owner.
I think this is a movement
that we will seemore and more,
because nobody wants to comeinto an empty space
(14:38):
where they, you know,are maybe mandated
to work from the office.
Nothing is more deflatingthan an empty quiet
space
Yeah, we've all have felt that I think
most of us as leaders at least.
And, I think, a lot ofcompanies still struggle
with making hybrid workwork because of
(14:58):
space that is not designed to
their new way of working.
Right.
So I just had an interview with
Charles Corley from M Moser and Associates from Singapore.
And he, you know,he said
one of their things they push people to do
is even have a dedicated person focused on
making sure that the communityspaces have things going on
all the time
(15:19):
to actually make theinvestment so that
it's not just kind ofa nice space
that no one really uses or utilizes
but actually havesomebody focused on that
from kind of a communitybuilding point of view
so that not onlyare there a lot of things,
but there's a varietyof things, you know, there's
there's yoga,there's lunch and learns
you know, there's allthese different things that
that createan environment
(15:39):
and create an opportunityfor people, again, to do things
and to come there
honey instead of vinegar
because they can do thingsand get experiences
that they can'tget anyplace else.
But it's not only that
it's also being seen
being remembered
feeling a connectionto a human.
Right. Because
that’s not something thatwe have an abundance of
(16:03):
in daily worklife anymore.
So just to givean example
I can't really namethe names here.
But I can explain what I'm
what I'm seeing is that
in probably the coolest workplacein Sweden right now.
It's a brand new office
it's a collectiveof consultancies
creative companies,tech startups.
(16:26):
They have this fantastic workplace
and they are investingin kind of a
meet and greet personwhen you get there
but it's actually a security guard.
But that person knows your name
and says, Hello, Welcome.
How are you today?
Then you can walkyour way to in
into that workspace.
The first thing that happensis a young lady
and she is combination of a
(16:48):
of a barista and receptionistcall it a bar-ceptionist.
And she also remembers names.
Remembers what kind of coffee you want and everything
and really creates this vibe without
managing maybe those thingslike yoga sessions but
really playing that role of
(17:09):
the heart of the workplace.
And so wheneveryou ask people
what's the bestwith that
coolest workplace
that is, you know, outfittedin really cool ways
and has every thinkablegreat thing in that space
the feedback is always
that lady who runs the barista reception.
(17:30):
That's what people remember and love
because they feela connection, they seem
they feel seen.
I think that's a sign of the times, Jeff.
They feel seen.
I love that
you knowit's funny
it comes backto people, right?
We're not that complicated
we’re people and we like other people.
When you seekind of
really futuristic citiesor really futuristic buildings
(17:52):
and a lot of times
these kind ofreally futuristic renderings
they don’t have any people in them, like
[Jeff] Where are the people?[Henrik] Yeah, exactly.
[Henrik] How much fun is that?[Jeff] It’s people that make it.
Yeah, buildingsare boring.
People aremore fun.
Yes
When done right.
So shifting gears a little bit
in terms of the role of data
and kind of the technical challenges
and what you have to overcome.
(18:12):
I mean, I think probably
one of the hardest things not
maybe one of thehardest things
for people runninga facility is planning food.
When they don't,
they're not surehow many people
are going to come in and out.
And you know whata huge contrast
to pre-COVID when you pretty much knew.
So I'm just curious
in kind of the role of data,the role of forecasting,
(18:33):
you know, kind of
upping the game in termsof the increased dynamism
of the marketplaceand activity,
how are, you know,your clients
using technology andnew ways to better manage
a much more dynamic and shifting
I don’t know, unpredictable
[Jeff] Maybe it feels like I can predict it[Henrik] Right
How do you managefood in 2025?
(18:56):
Yeah.
You're on to somethingreally complex here Jeff.
Appreciatethe question,
but I think I need to back the tape a bit for
for the listenersto follow on this.
If you are a huge playerin outsourcing
generally the business builds onresponding to requests for
partnershipsfor example
where you're askedto provide a lot of services
(19:18):
on a service level agreement, maybe
15, 20, 30 countries
easily it becomes quite a big contract volume,
because you also employ maybe
500 people in your own organization that suddenly
takes care of a lot of businessfor that client
connected tofor example
food, cleaning
(19:39):
building maintenance,whatever it can be.
So I think we needto understand that first.
And in 2014, for example,I was part of
or actually led thenegotiation between
between Sodexoand one of the largest
life science companiesin this world.
So I was a consultant at Ernst and Young at that time but
(20:02):
everything is about to understand
and what's the volume per service
and what's it going to cost
in those 30 countriesand really negotiate that.
And negotiatethe contract claims
was easy back then, right
Because the businesswas similar Monday, Tuesday,
Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
And nowadaysit's much more complex
(20:24):
because you really haveto understand the people flow
into buildings.
So people flow in Hungary.
Are they the sameas in Spain or in Finland?
Sweden, the US?
You can't really guesson that because,
if you guess wrong, eitheryou're come in to cheap
or come in to expensiveand it will never win.
(20:47):
So what you really need to understand is
how many people are in a building.
If you're going to serve food?
How many people will be in
this building in three weekson the Monday between
half past 11 and 1:00,for example.
How many will be in two days later
Wednesday, or example.
So if you don't know that,you will have a problem from
(21:09):
a supply chain perspectiveof ordering ingredients,
making sure that you don'tproduce too much waste,
all of these things hasbecome much more complex.
And this is also why
everything needs to become digitalized.
[Jeff] Right
So it's a good question.
And are the systemscatching up?
Are you seeingyou know, are the
is the sophistication of the modeling and things adjusting
(21:30):
now that we you know,
you've got a few yearsworth of data.
So it's not quite asthe shock as it was before.
Yeah.
[Jeff] More complicated. Right.[Henrik] It is
It is more complicated.
It's catching up.
But there is no blueprint
I would say for this.
Different clients and different companies
We do, andyou know
in certain waysfor example take a
(21:51):
if you look at our office right sizing service
that we’ve innovated over the last year
here in Sweden
it's a combination of a meeting booking platform,
co-working spaceusage and sensors
coming from the cleaning service that we do
kind of cross-referencing that
then we canreally understand
(22:11):
exactly how the building is utilized.
And from thattype of information
can also understand.
Are we overstaffedon Mondays or Fridays?
Because everyone knows that we
usually have itWednesday mountain but
today it’s actuallythe Tuesday mountain.
Tuesdays are biggerthan Wednesdays
because we know,
the movement of peoplein buildings suddenly.
(22:32):
So we arecatching up
from a digitalization perspective in that sense
but also,of course
in the platform of running restaurants.
That's also somethingthat has to be more
and more digitalizedto keep up the speed.
You have been doing this.
I think you said you've been in thisfor like 20 plus years.
Congratulations
Yeah, 21 years
[Jeff] 21[Henrik] Thank you
(22:53):
But what you haven'tbeen doing for 21 years
is playingwith AI.
And I knew I would have you on eventually
but why I had to reach out to you
the other day
and I'm just going topull up the post
because I think it's pretty wild.
You put out a postand you talked about
and I joke I call them your
your chief of staff
your cabinetyour dirty dozen.
I don't know what
what you call yourlittle worker bees
(23:15):
but this was a fascinating.
So you said that
I've got this great, effective team
and I'm just going to read it real quick
because I think it'spretty insightful.
You've got ChatGPT as your Chief Strategy and Innovation Officer
Claude as your Executive Editor-in-Residence
Perplexity as VP Research and Insight
Gemini as your Director of Real-Time Verification
(23:36):
Midjourney, Creative Director of Visual Production
Canva, Head of Rapid Design and Branding
Eleven Labs, Senior Manager of Voice Experience
Notebook LM, Chief Knowledge Curator
Gamma AI,Director of Presentation
Otter AI,Chief Meeting Historian
Ambient AI,Chief Workflow Orchestrator
and VeedThe Director of Video Content.
(23:58):
I about fell off my chair when you
when do youdropped this?
And what's interesting is
you couched it in the
that you were actually talking
to a group of executives
and asking them about their AI engagement.
And it reminds me,too, of the time
I had an interviewwith Bill Schmarzo
So he had just moved to Iowa
and went to some likeIowa development thing.
(24:19):
And they asked people, you know,
how AI is goingto impact their worlds.
And nobody,nobody raised their hand.
Yeah.
it was in like the lower,lower quadrant.
So clearly they weren't
kind of clued in towhat's going on.
So many questions.
First off this is amazing.
Thank you for thinkingand helping people.
I think yeah,
I think we're at a stagein this adoption
(24:40):
where people really need models
that we can look to other people to,
to basically patterntheir behavior
after if they're notnaturally curious.
But, you know,some basic things.
How do you keep upwith this stuff?
Do you have an AI buddy,that helps you,
you know, kind of evaluatenew applications?
You can't hardlykeep up with it
(25:00):
because there's new things
being introducedall the time.
So share a little bit generally.
And then I want to go intosome of the specifics
about how you're
using some of these toolsto really change your,
your own workflowand your own productivity.
Yeah. It'sfascinating. Jeff,
journey that I've been on
over the last year is just something else.
(25:22):
I feel today that I'm 3x’ing myself
or 3 to 4x’ing myselfin many dimensions.
And it's all part actually
I think that's worth mentioning first
personal journey.
I do pay for these thingson my own.
I need to say that first.
And, some five years ago,when the pandemic started
(25:43):
you know, I went through a divorce,
my grandmother died,my cousin died.
My father died.
I had twosmall kids.
I used to travela lot over the world
managing 16countries.
It was a big hassle actually.
And before that, I was a management consultant
traveling the world to work so
from maybe 2018,
(26:04):
I've been on a personal journey
to be more healthy,
spend more timeon stuff that I love
less on shit,
you know,
and really become a new version of myself.
And that's whatI felt last spring
that this train was aboutto leave the station.
(26:24):
The train of AI
I need to figure this out because
AI is one of the two strongest legs
in the future of work like it’s
it's AI and distributed work
and those together
kind of will dictate
how companies operating models are built going forward.
And everythingconnected to that.
So you know, I can’t be in the role of
future of work not knowing and really
(26:46):
using AI on a daily basis.
So that’s kind of the
the platform for where I am today.
I joined Daan van Rossumhave you met Daan any time?
I don't think so.
He’s a fantastic guy.
He's known in the globalmedia magazines and he runs,
(27:07):
his, FlexOS companyis a media platform today,
but they also doAI training for executives.
I jumped onthat course.
That's kind of a
from Newb to Master course
in 28 days whereyou do self studies
most of the time,but you also had meetings
with Daan.
(27:28):
And, the whole point of that is to
go in kind of naked and then you end that
course with your own AI team.
So that's respondingto one of your questions.
Do you havean AI buddy?
How do youkeep up?
Because the ingenuity with
with what Daan doesis that he also provides
(27:50):
a community that's for freeon a life time basis.
So everyone
who takes that coursewho have their,
AI team, also kind of vibesevery day.
Did you see that thing
on that AI?
Oooh
Karma just droppedanother version.
Grammarly came with this,
Copilot did this today.Did you see it?
(28:11):
That thing iswhat is
very helpful to keep up to datewith what's happening, but
to be honest
I always feel behind.
Although I know probably I’m at the top 5% in the world
user of this.
Share for peoplehow important
it is to have an AI person, buddy
(28:32):
to bounce ideas off
to share these things,to learn about new things.
Cause I think that'sa really important
piece of the puzzle.You gotta
You got to have kind ofsomebody with you.
It's so much easier to go on a journey with somebody
versus by yourself and,you know, expose blind spots
and really
help you discover new things.
(28:54):
Yeah.
And so, just sowe are super clear on this
you mean like having AIas a thinking partner?
No, I mean a person, person
like your little group.
Like yourlittle group
that you're talking about.
Yeah.
Yeah. But that's.
That's the way to do it.
I've understood that now,from spending a year
(29:15):
of really digging deepinto AI, the power of AI is,
from the individualperspective,
people getting curious.
So sharing experiencesas a social movement
that is what's going to really bring
powerful transformation in companies.
You can't really
(29:36):
set up AI strategyfor a company
and let's automatethat process.
Give an AI to people,figure this out.
You know,it's never going to happen,
because you really needto bring this power
from inside out,kind of
if you will.
Right
When you get thatsocial movement going
(29:58):
then
you know,AI is a fantastic thing
because then the skepticism disappears.
You try new thingsand be excited when
a new functionality drops and
kind of a bit of a FOMO situation as well.
Like, my buddy's been usingthat new version of ChatGPT-4.5 now
(30:18):
I haven’t eventried I need to do it.
That kindof feeling, is fantastic.
So havinga buddy
is absolutely key,
I would say
to createthis social movement.
And it's great that you wereconfused by my question
because Charles also,
who's also way down the AI path
talks about using AI as his thought buddy
(30:39):
as really a thought partner.
And the otherframing that he used
which I thought wasreally powerful
is think of it as ajunior colleague.
A smart junior colleague,but a junior colleague
there still needs to have theirwork checked now and then
before you make some kind of big commitment.
So I thought that framing was so
was so good
I wonder if you can share some of
(30:59):
the specific little tasksthat have been transformed
for you, in kind of your daily,
your daily existence byusing some of these tools.
I think we need to goby example actually
because, I do use it so much
in all of these different tools or AI tech
day by daynow so
you know, if I say
(31:19):
‘Oh I use all the toolsevery day.’
Yeah, nobody understandswhat it means.
So exactly
let's, put it like this then.
I was asked last
autumn, sometime in November,
to present at a conferenceon the future work.
From IFMA.[International Facility Management Association]
(31:40):
Can you please kind ofcome here and talk about how
distributed work and AI is developing?
So I was like, yeah,of course I can do that.
Ex-consultant. Right.
How do you doyour presentation?
How do you go about it?
You start,you know, sit down.
You do your straw manon the PowerPoint,
you can startputting in headlines,
maybe you find,
(32:01):
some presentations that you've been using before
and you try to order them and
they don't really get there.
You start writingbullet points on the slides
and it takes forever
to create such ayou know
powerful presentationthat you’re really satisfied with.
It could easilytake a week
you know if you do it part time.
That's how
I did it, at least as a management consultant
(32:22):
for many years.
But nowadaysto give that example
is that I downloadthe relevant reports
that I have.
Think kind of the Gensler report,
McKinsey, Boston Consulting Group
whatever.
That is up to dateand quite new,
into Notebook LM for example.
(32:43):
It's a Notebook LM
It's a Google product,
where you can kind of summarizes,
let's say 3,000 PDF pagesand a couple of podcasts
in a few minutes,
and I get thatbrief document
on exactly what these are about.
Suddenly I have a pretty good source
for information where
(33:03):
the world of work is going.
Take that and I lift it inmaybe to ChatGPT.
This time I would not probably choose
the 0.3 modelbecause it digs so deep.
If I'm going to do
a presentation it's
good enough with 4.5 or 4.0,
and I ask it to help mecreate that presentation.
And it really digsdeep on all of that data
(33:26):
that I foundin those reports.
And I can downloadmaybe earlier presentations
as well that I've been doing,
I ask it to prepare for PowerPoint.
Please do it on a 15-page PowerPoint
and it should take around20 minutes to present.
Then does that ina couple of seconds.
And just because ChatGPT is not that good with words,
I may take itto Claude.
(33:47):
Because Claude, it's much better with language
can instructwhat kind of tone?
In, I want the presentation to have.
Should it sound like the Monocle magazine?
Or should we should like the Financial Times
or Bloomberg or, you know,
should we use Henrik's voice and tone?
and canchoose that.
And then when we've done that
it's important to just bring it into Gamma
(34:10):
For example,the PowerPoint producer.
So lift that prepared contentof 15 page
with that specific contentinto Gamma
ask it to preservewhat I'm going to present
with the content thatI've been developing
hit generate when you’ve kind of decided
the color schemeand fonts.
Then in one minute or so
(34:30):
I have that 15 minute presentation done and ready.
So having done thatmaybe took around
let's say 30 minutes of work, everything
We are atdraft level
80% doneand good
Because the picturesmight be AI generated
I want to shift them outwith real pictures probably
(34:53):
Right
maybe add a few corporate logos.
Because I don't wantto use that in these things.
I want to be mindful and ethical
about the AI I'm using
and here's the cool stuff Jeff
We come down from maybe a week of work
to maybe an hour
to come to 80% of the presentation.
Right.
If you go back.
If you remember,
(35:13):
the first step I did herewas the notebook LLM thing
If you havetried that
you can also pick studio,the audio file.
Presentation of that
of those 3,000 pages of reports.
And you get a 17 minutesound file where you have
two podcast host talkingabout most important things.
What you can do then
is that you save that sound file
(35:37):
and you bring that into your video production AI
tool and say, can you build me a video
from that soundbitethey're talking about
from what they are talking about
and then it does that.
So suddenly you sit there
with an intro video
oh, let's saya minute or so,
(35:57):
with that audio sound file
narrating the video that the AI has developed
based on the data that I provided Notebook LM.
So, in two hours, maybe
you have an intro videoof your presentation.
You have the presentation content
PowerPoint and the outro video done.
That's pretty muchthe process because
(36:20):
you learn how to kind ofwork in a different way.
And I really like whatyou said.
It's like being a partner at McKinsey.
Right?
You have that hat on
and you have these fantastic
people around youthat are really
upbeat and really want to do a good job,
and they overdeliverall the time.
You give them tasksand you are
always in the loopas a human.
But, you know,you save so much time,
(36:42):
you get so much deeper into detail
much morecreative
and different thoughtsthat I’ve
never thought about myself, of course
Right, right.
That is agreat example.
I mean, it's so it's so funny because
when you do start making a stupid PowerPoint
and thankfully I try not to make them at all anymore
if I can avoid it.
But you always get stuck
in the colors and the fonts
(37:02):
and you knowthe simple things that
ChatGPT or these toolsare so good at will
as youjust said like
make it 15 pagesand 20 minutes.
That is like the hardest thing to do
as an authorof your own stuff.
At least for me.
I always have 10x what I need and
so when youyou know
even just to have an assistantto take your garbage and
and condense it and clean it up and
(37:23):
give me something nice and clean
is a huge value.
I love thatI love that example.
And you know, even more. Jeff. So,
as you learn, I'm a quite opentransparent guy.
I am completely okay with saying
that I have challengeswith procrastination,
because
(37:43):
Just you
You’re the only one Henrikin the whole world
that has problemswith procrastination
I admit it.
[Laughter]
I think you have a few compadres out there
that you could shuttle with.
Yeah.
This is the more
the more complex questions
that you have to deal within your everyday work.
(38:04):
Probably the more personalprocrastination you have as a human
because you really need to progress
your really needto figure out,
find the dots, the patternsin this, in this complexity
to turn it intosomething simple.
This is probably top two at least
on what I feel the power of AI is on the individual level.
(38:26):
I never get stuck anymore
because I can come easilyjust pick up the phone
and start talkingto my thinking buddy
ChatGPT for example
in advanced voice mode and say
this challenge we have with
employee engagement in that area.
(38:47):
Said I don't know whatto do it, with it.
Can we just talk about it for a while?
And maybe I do that onmy way to work or from work.
And suddenly, you know,the aha moment comes immediately
because it helps you slice the elephant
in a way that you never get stuck
if you use itin the right way.
So I think that's thethinking buddy in the AI
(39:11):
which is the most powerful thing.
Yeah, it's pretty wild.
So just to steal anothergreat line from
from Brian Elliott, whichI think is really impactful.
You know his focushas always been on
the future of workand distributed work.
And he was at Slack and,
and Future Forumand all these things.
But he made a reallyimpactful statement
that the same management attributes
(39:33):
that make a managerand a team successful,
moving to distributed work,
are the same thingsthat will enable
that same managerto basically help his team
be successful in AI,because it's about
experimentation and empowerment and
trial and error and support and you know
not being afraid to make mistakes
(39:54):
a couple hereand there along the way.
So yeah, I think it'sa really interesting
kind of progression, as you said,
distributed work isthe thing going forward.
And distributed teams,excuse me
really more importantly.
Work’s always been distributed.
But now within thisAI, overlay
it happens to be it's the same management skills,
(40:16):
it’s about risk taking and empowerment and trial and error
and encouraging people to,to embrace these new things.
Yeah, yeah, and really enthuse people to do it, you know.
Can you make your job more fun?
Can it suck less?
Can you get more creative?
Can yoube faster?
You know, can you end earlier on Friday?
(40:37):
Try, try to make it happen.
You may have to lead like that.
I think that's the right way to do it and
fun you mentioned Brian, because Brian is in the same AI
community that I am in and
It actually today andyesterday I was talking to
to Dave Cairns
I know you know Dave pretty well,
(40:57):
because he had been following my journey
with AI as well for a while and
I kind of have beentelling him you need to
you need to get into this
and today, I get these messages from Dave saying
Wow! This is thewildest thing
for the creative process.
You can utilize AI to really think deeper
(41:18):
challenge your own thinking
find your own blind spots
get deeperbecause you can
you can talk to the tech
forever on any topic,and it will bring down
the most ingenious thingsif you know how to use it.
[Jeff] Right.
So again, proof
of the social movementto creating curiosity
(41:40):
and really sharing,how you do stuff.
I think that's thezeitgeist as well.
And I want to double downon something you said.
Charles said
most people who are
having some success on this journey
in terms of theconversational interface
and the fact that just start asking it questions
I think there's ayou know
we're seeing on the posts
where these people put outthese huge poster things
(42:01):
with, you know, six pointfont on prompt engineering.
And it's
I don't even know how manywords and lines and sections
you can't even readthe stupid thing
which is so the wrong approach
and probably intimidatesthe hell out of people
because they're trying toengineer the perfect prompt.
But that's nothow it works at all.
No it isn't.
It's,
it's more like having a conversation
(42:23):
knowing how to be clear when you talk
how to kind of program
the tech early onin a new chat.
Take the role
as my world class economic analyston the food supply chain
because I really want to know
what the bottlenecksin Poland are.
How do I procure meat?
(42:45):
You know
that's the type of discussions
you can run into and
really spend hours on.
And the thing is Jeff that
it's not,compared, it
The big thing isnot comparing it
for example tohow to
how to search forinformation internet
(43:05):
But the thing is that
you think when you write
you thinkwhen you talk to this AI.
And just a year ago
I did not think when I wrote
or think when I spoke to an AI.
But today I may be spending one hour
maybe spending two hours of writing or talking to that AI
(43:29):
meaning that I'm thinkingtwo hours more per day.
So this is also part of it right?
It’s a big thing.
To spend more time thinkingyes, you will be
probably better offwhatever you're doing.
I love that.
So we're getting towardsthe end of our time.
2025.
You've been in workspace for 20 plus years.
(43:50):
You've been in this role for
the better partof a year.
As you look forward
What are some of your priorities?
What are youexcited about?
Are we making
Are we making the right moves?
Are you seeing the rightstuff in the marketplace,
or what is still some ofyour frustrations?
What’s kind of your plan for 2025?
What's yourpriorities?
Yes, I think
(44:10):
It's difficult to sound smart, right,
in these times when
on that question becausethere's so many things happening
[Jeff] That’s why I didn't say 3 to 5 years.[Henrik] in the world
I would never do that to you
[Laughter]
Even though we’ve got amacroeconomic climate
and everything but
I'm really excited about the exactly
those two societal shifts
of distributed workand AI.
(44:31):
You know, we have never seen companies
doing so much with fewer resources.
At the same time
they are laying off people.
Right?
And that's a sad story.
And AI is really coming in now
really changingthe game.
Many companies,
are trying to figure out the next generation operating model
(44:51):
This is what I'm thinking is themost interesting topic for me
How do we create and design corporate bodies?
How will they work?
How will it governthis mechanism
when people have maybe20, 30 agents each
every member of your 30 people strong
(45:12):
CFO team have 30 agents.
Every memberof your marketing team
may have 30 agents.
Just imagining.
Imagine how fastthings can be done
or how deep or how many thingswe are able to accomplish.
Can be scary
but also really fascinatingto think about.
(45:32):
So if you can take my perspective as a former
head of strategyfor Europe, for example,
usually we could spenda couple of months
or three monthsa year
to really figure outthese strategic analysis.
In 16 countriesand 100 services,
calculating compoundaggregated growth rate,
(45:53):
in every country,
in every servicefor three years ahead.
Now, you know,you can do that
within a weekif you wanted to.
But the thing isthat most companies,
they aren't there yet,but it's fascinating
to see the speed of development
and how you designthese organizations.
And what you needwhat kind of skills you need.
(46:15):
And I think people should ask themselves
exactly thatquestion.
What kind of skills do I need in my role going forward?
Because if I do not invest in, for example
AI or creating this teamsomeone else will
and I will probably not be able to get
that next real cool job.
(46:35):
Yeah.
Feels like curiosityis moving up the list
[Henrik] Curiosity[Jeff] in terms of skills and attributes.
What do you think Jeff?
If you,
had a kid today who wasaround ten years old
you were figuring outkind of
what will that kid need
when it entersthe workforce,
(46:56):
in let's say, ten years from now?
[Jeff] Yeah[Henrik] it's difficult
I think it is, it’s Curiositybecause we have no idea.
Right?
You have to be open to change
it’s curiosity and agility and resilience.
It has zero to do with any actual
tangible skill that you would learn from an apprenticeship.
It's about those.
Really more your attributes,your characteristics
(47:18):
to deal with the crazy change that is
[Jeff] is coming each and every day.[Henrik] Creativity
Yeah, exactly.
And really being able to
start ona fresh
every time you run into a challenge.
What kind of technologycan I use to get
towards this challenge and really solve it in a fast way?
(47:43):
I've been playing around with
the likes ofLovable for example.
Because, you knowwhat Lovable is?
No.
It's another AI
where you can create a home page or
kind of a
business ready platformwithin a couple of hours.
So let's say you startwith looking for
(48:04):
How can I make a cheese deliverycompany in Washington?
What do I need?
What do I need? Different types of cheese?
How will I
can solve the food supply chain for it?
And when you've done thatwithin maybe half a day
you can putall of that content
for that business planthat strategy, that campaign
(48:25):
into Lovable
and Lovableturns it into
a home page readybusiness for you.
You know, that typeof creativity
or as you say,curiosity
will be golden for anyprofessional going forward.
Yeah, yeah.
Well Henrik, we'reat the end of our time.
(48:46):
And I reallyappreciate.
I lovethe fact
that you are just pushing on edges
pushing on edges,pushing on edges. And,
you know, you mentionedthe word governance.
We didn't get into that.
We'll have to save thatfor next time.
And I think we're goingto have to rely on
on our friends on that side of the Atlantic
because, you know,based on our lack of success
around any type ofgovernance in social media
we still struggleon the privacy side.
(49:08):
You guys came up with GDPRwe can't even get
a national breachnotification policy.
And it doesn't make mefeel very confident
about what's going to happen
on these technologiesthat are moving even faster, so
We'll save the governancefor another day.
But certainlyit's exciting.
And people like youwho are
(49:28):
both embracingit with
jumping in with both feet
but also sharing the journey
so other people, you know,like Dave, even yesterday,
you know, can benefit
I think is really, really,really important
and a huge benefit toa lot of people.
Thank you very much, Jeff,
and it has beena real pleasure
to be part of thisfantastic podcast.
Thank you.
I really appreciate you coming on
and have agreat day.
(49:50):
He's Henrik,I'm Jeff
you're watching Work 20XX.
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for listeningon the podcast.
We'll see you next time.
Take care.
Cool
That was great. Man.
Yeah itwas good
and good flow
and you’re, you know
you have that magic
that most podcasthosts don’t.
Oh, that’s nice to say.
And take that with you
because it is a
(50:11):
it is still black magic for most people.
Good podcasts don’t grow on trees
as we say in Sweden.
[laughter]
Well thank you very much.
Talk to you.
Bye bye.
bye now.
Hey, Jeff Frick here.
If you've made itthis far,
thank you very much.
I really appreciate your
ongoing supportas we celebrate
Work 20XX Episode 50 with Hendrick really
(50:33):
talking about the future that,
that future of work’s evolved
from talking about days of the week
to talking about
how do you build your own
AI team behind youto help you
3x yourself,as Hendrick said.
But one of the questions he asked me,
what advice would you give someone,
say, a ten year old
who's going to be entering the workforce in ten years?
(50:54):
What do you think it’s going to be?
A skill.
And we talked aboutsome really attributes,
but I said incorrectlyprobably
or definitely that, you know
there's no skill that you could learn in an apprenticeship
that would protect youfrom this onslaught.
And the moreI think about it,
and I've actually seen some quotes,
where people say,
(51:14):
you know, be a plumber.
It’s going to be a long timebefore the robots.
And I've done a lot of work in robots
are in people's homes repairing
clogged toilets and,
doing complex remodels and
just all the thingsthat plumbers do.
So plumbers,electricians,
those are probably going
to become moreand more valuable,
(51:35):
as maybe they're
one of the latter ones to, to get automated.
We'll see.
We'll see how it shakes out.
But again, thank you for listening.
If you got this far,I really appreciate it.
Take care. Sharewith a friend.
Like subscribe and smashthat notification bell.
Leave a review.Thanks. Take care.
Bye bye.
(51:56):
Hey, Jeff Frick Here
big shout out to the podcast audience.
Thanks for listening in.
You can get show notes and transcripts at Work20XX.com
And that also has links to the videos as well.
Appreciate you listeningin on the podcast
Do reach out
say hello, like subscribeand smash that notification bell.
Thanks for listening.Take care. Bye bye.
[Laughter]
All right
I’ll count us down
in three, two, one.
Hey welcomeback everybody.
Jeff Frick here coming to you
for another episode of Work 20XX.
And we're going across the pond to Stockholm today
for our next guest.
That’s the beauty
One of the great things
that came out of Covid iseveryone is pretty used to
doing these types of callsand it's not that strange
(00:21):
to have calls with peopleall over the world.
So thankfully
through the magicof the internet
all the way from Stockholm
he's Henrik Jarleskog, the Head of Future of Work at Sodexo.
Henrik, great to see you.
Great to see you, Jeff.
And I'm happy to be here.
And you know, we are in thisnew type of global work, right?
Right, right, And we
our paths have crossed manymany times online.
(00:43):
So it's greatto finally get to
I don’t knowmeet in person
almost in personvirtual in person, whatever we
whatever we describe this,but it certainly feels good.
Yeah, I think, you know,
you are and this podcast is
one of the OGsin this area
the future of work you know,
it was one of the first podcasts
I really started listeningto in the beginning
(01:03):
you know, when,
when the pandemicand everything hit and
I always usedto have your sessions
in my headphones,walking to work suddenly
because I used totake a train, but,
many memories ofpast sessions with you Jeff
and listening to it onmy way to work walking.
So that's great.
[Jeff] Well thank you again[Henrik] Happy to be here.
(01:24):
Thankfully Darren wasDarren Murph was
was gracious enoughto accept my invitation
for episode number one.
So I knew if I could getDarren that the
that the seas would part for me
and everyone else would be
Okay, that's legitimate. So
Sodexo
Big giantcompany.
Not everybody knows about it
certainly here in the States.
So give a quick overview of Sodexo
(01:44):
because I think it's a big behemoth
that maybe not everyone is aware of.
I think you areabsolutely right, Jeff.
You know, we areI think we are still
the 18th largest companyin the world.
When you look at the amount of employees
we exist in pretty much every country in the world
where, you know, we doa lot of food business
(02:06):
and we also dofacilities management.
We do kind of the fullworkplace spectrum.
We do itfor corporates
and we do it for the likes of
hospitals, schools, offshore, remote
We ran the Olympics games this summer.
and Roland-Garrosand
(02:27):
in the NFL stadiums where
we also take careof a lot of services,
including food and beverage.
Yeah.
So just I'm goingto put a number on it
because you're very
you're very gracious.
It's over 400,000 employees.
I mean that is a lot of people.
And over €20 billion euros of revenues
or north of that in revenue.
So that is a significant,a significant company.
(02:49):
Yeah.It's huge.
Yeah,It’s huge
Yeah.
It's a really big it's a behemoth as you say
and it's a B2B one.
Therefore, most people haven't heard the company
because we don't make
a big fuss aroundwho we are
you knowto people
but B2Bwe're really big.
So you've had this positionHead of Future Work
(03:11):
for a littlewhile and
I've heard getting ready for this.
You tell a story about asit down with the CEO
and I wonder if you could share this
because for such a company
that's been arounda long time
a very bigspecialty
in food and facilityservices and
tangential to that
to have a person focusedon the future of work
talk about thatconversation
(03:32):
because I think it showssome really progressive thinking
in the mindsof the boss.
Yeah.
I really have a vivid memory
of sitting down with the CEO
just when thepandemic had hit, right.
Because we are a B2B company.
And we diddo a lot of
and still do of coursetransactional business. So,
(03:52):
and that businessbills on
people beingin the office
serving them witheither food or
certainly receptionist services
or taking careof the buildings
cleaning the officesor the trains
or the airplanesyou know
everything altered a bit
when people wasn'tin the offices anymore.
So I sat down with theCEO at the time
(04:16):
and at the time, I was headingup strategy for Europe.
Where he said, Henrik
our industry or kind ofthe workplace industry
will never becomewhat it was
before the pandemic again.
It will change.
It will irreversibly change.
But we don't know how.
So I want you to take the lead of understanding that
(04:37):
I want you to analyze
do surveys,write whitepapers
educate yourself,us and the market
because I believehe said
if you own the problem statement
you can also becomea market maker.
This was five years ago.
So I got thattask of
really figuring out the future of work five years ago
(04:58):
but as a part timeor a double hat
with my strategy jobat the time.
Yeah, that's pretty progressive
because as you know my
my one and only all time favorite business book
‘Innovator's Dilemma’by Clayton Christiansen
I know even know how old it is now
it's probablyI don't know
40 years old30 years old.
the whole idea thatyou know
mature businesses
with smart executives
making sound business decisions
(05:20):
based on marginalimprovements
that their customers are asking for
will always miss discontinuous change
because their customersaren't asking for it.
They're askingfor better, faster,
or smarter of the thingsyou're already selling them.
So to a minute and to pluck somebody out
and say really startto think about
how this is going to change our world forever.
And own the problem statementthat's pretty progressive.
(05:42):
It is.
And I just loved it
because this is exactly how to motivatesomebody like me
because I've been doingthese kind of heavy lifts
few times before
doing the new things or trying to
infuse new type ofinnovations in markets.
Same time at my timeat Ernst and Young
where we introduced
invest in partnerships
(06:02):
instead of transactionaloutsourcing
kind of a win-win model.
I was, the same wayof looking at a market.
How can we really change it forever?
And it's reallyI would say energizing
to figure outhow to
to change for an industryto make it better.
[Jeff] Right
To build back betterfor everyone who works.
I think that's somethingthat motivates at least me.
(06:25):
[Jeff] Yeah. That's great.
So seems like one of the bigthemes in terms of the
the change
well we know that is right
in the change in the role
of what the office is andwhat the role of facilities is
has changeddramatically.
And in terms of the facilities people and what you measure
it's not so much about SGA anymore.
Nobody wants to be a cost center.
It has to be in supportof the people
(06:47):
doing the main business.
So it feelslike the
the focus has really shifted from
attendance which is stupid in the first place
to experience, right.
[Jeff] And how you deliver that experience.[Henrik] Yeah, yeah.
And coming from a food background
I think that's pretty uniqueposition to come from.
One of my favoriteshows on the internet
is Hot Ones with Sean Evans
and one of the magic formulas of that show
(07:10):
is breaking bread over shared pain.
When you break bread with somebody
you create an intimacy
and you create a type of relationship
that, you know, kind of goes back deep into our
our roots ofthe power of hospitality
and community.
So you guys are in apretty unique place
starting from foodand food as a base
(07:30):
and what that means to people
to start to help build out
some of these experience capabilities
in these facilities.
Absolutely.
And, you know,there are a few
really large companiesthat we compete with.
All of them come from different, angles.
You have the real estatecompanies who,
you know,
comes from the transactional business
of selling and buying real estate.
(07:52):
You have afew of them
coming from the cleaning business
a couple of themcoming from the
food business or safetyand security business.
But over timethey kind of
widen the portfolio
at least overthe last
21 years I've beenin this industry
or the workplace industryit has evolved over time.
It has been growingI would say
(08:12):
widening the scopefrom 3 or 4 services.
You kind of started with maybe cleaning, reception services
and lighter building maintenance.
Then you're building up moreand more services,
outdoor maintenance,grounds and landscaping,
concierge services.
And now lately, you know,it's everything is just,
(08:33):
around experiencesas you say.
How can we create
offices and workplaces to
places where peopleactually want to go
where it's meaningful to travel in
not being forced to it.So I think,
absolutelyfascinating.
And as you say for us
we are more relevant than ever
(08:55):
because breaking bread is number one, right?
Right.
On the list why people wantto meet with their peers.
They get into the officesit down
have a Swedish fika
share a little piece of breadhave some coffee.
That's really what brings relationship
to a strongerand better level.
(09:17):
Yeah.It’s a
as our mutual friendBrian Elliott loves to say, right.
Distributed doesn't mean never together.
And it's reallyabout intentional
which was my great word that Darren
you know, turned me on to years ago and so
You know, I was justat the Atlassian show.
And they talkabout their facilities
and really tryingto make them
attractive placesfor people to come.
And also to think about thingsthat you can't do at home
(09:38):
or you can't necessarilydo at a remote location
that the main office
or an office is really,really suited for.
And the frameworkthat I,
that I foundcoming out of Covid
that helps peoplethink about it is ‘off-sites.’
Everybody knows what an off-site is, right.
What makesan off-site work?
An off-siteis intentional.
You've gotobjectives.
Everybody's focused
(09:58):
who is there for a day
or two days onwhatever the problem is.
You have a varietyof different activities
over the course of your off site
and you do some work
but you do some funand you break some bread.
And then you leave itand you have objectives
and you have goals andyou've accomplished stuff so.
I always tell people‘on-site’ is the new ‘off-site’.
What arethe things
(10:19):
that you can do to your on site to make it appealing
for people to come inand do that type of work?
Really intense, high value,great delivery, community.
And it really begs for
almost this hospitality like point of view because
you do off sites often at really nice resorts
or really nice places.Well why?
Because they have all of the great resources
(10:42):
from a hospitalitypoint of view.
To deliverthat experience
so people go homeenergized, productive,
and you accomplishsome things.
Exactly you know,it's all coming back
to ‘Full-Stack Hospitality’in a way.
If you look at what happens in building today
kind of a multi-tenantbuilding
given, you know,in any city.
A lot of the timeyou get into kind of
(11:02):
an entrance hall, with ahigh loft and high ceilings.
And maybeif you’re lucky
there is a logo on the wall.
Maybe a sofa
and behind the glasswalls, you have
a couple of security guards
and they may sayhello to you.
That's pretty commonexperience when you get into
multi-tenant building, right?
So what I am doingand what we are doing
(11:22):
is completely rethinkthese areas
because what you can dois to open these areas up
in your multi-tenantbuilding, for example
create an experience
through a great dining experience.
It could be breakfastit could be lunch, dinner
It could be theSwedish fika again.
We can combineit with
(11:44):
podcast studios orpubs for meetings
where pretty muchanyone can go in.
You can combine thatwith a community host
that really creates a vibein that space day by day.
You can launch
hybrid town hall meetingswhich are seamless
from a food and beverage perspective
with the audio videojust working without hassle.
(12:05):
That type of experienceis something that
any company really wants
to have as part of a lease.
And that's also whyI think the dialogs I have
with real estate executives right now
is just completely newtype of dialog
where we as an outsourcing providerof workplace services, food and F.M.
(12:28):
we can start working directlywith the real estate owners
unlocking that valuefor the tenants in that building
because they would share that space
they would share that vibe.
[Jeff] Right.
No longerdoes any
you know, all of the companies
create their own vibe
because they can take partof something bigger.
And I think that ispart of this
full stack hospitalitymovement that I see.
(12:51):
It's a great thing.
I love that because
you know, shared services is the thing
that's transformed techin a huge way, right?
In terms of cloud,what is cloud?
It's a shared computer
It’s sharedinfrastructure.
Pay by the drink.Pay for what you use.
Don't have a big piece of investment
in an asset that you don't use all the time.
(13:11):
So are you seeing moreand more then,
you know kind of this suite of shared services
within a facility that can be used
by different tenants for whatever
you knowfor different times
when they have different demand.
Is that anincreasing
increasing way to solve
kind of the flexibilitychallenge?
Yeah, exactly.
So not everyone sitsin a multi-tenant building,
but a lot of companiesand people do.
(13:33):
A lot of companiesover the last years
they've beenrightsizing
actually shrinkingtheir space because of
because ofhybrid work.
They have too much space.
They may have utilizationcircling around maybe 30%
so they can easily get ridof, let's say 30%, 40%
without having two small,small space.
(13:54):
But what happens then isthat they also want to have
access to the larger hybridtown hall meeting spaces or
more I would say mediumlarge meeting spaces.
And they also want a restaurant
because maybe they can’t have that
in that smaller, right sized office anymore.
So they want to share that.
So in a way it's moresustainable as well
(14:16):
because you use that building for more companies
and you usethat space
you know, toa higher utilization
which is goodfor the environment too.
Right?
And it's good for the value
and the valuationof the
in the actual buildingfor the real estate owner.
I think this is a movement
that we will seemore and more,
because nobody wants to comeinto an empty space
(14:38):
where they, you know,are maybe mandated
to work from the office.
Nothing is more deflatingthan an empty quiet
space
Yeah, we've all have felt that I think
most of us as leaders at least.
And, I think, a lot ofcompanies still struggle
with making hybrid workwork because of
(14:58):
space that is not designed to
their new way of working.
Right.
So I just had an interview with
Charles Corley from M Moser and Associates from Singapore.
And he, you know,he said
one of their things they push people to do
is even have a dedicated person focused on
making sure that the communityspaces have things going on
all the time
(15:19):
to actually make theinvestment so that
it's not just kind ofa nice space
that no one really uses or utilizes
but actually havesomebody focused on that
from kind of a communitybuilding point of view
so that not onlyare there a lot of things,
but there's a varietyof things, you know, there's
there's yoga,there's lunch and learns
you know, there's allthese different things that
that createan environment
(15:39):
and create an opportunityfor people, again, to do things
and to come there
honey instead of vinegar
because they can do thingsand get experiences
that they can'tget anyplace else.
But it's not only that
it's also being seen
being remembered
feeling a connectionto a human.
Right. Because
that’s not something thatwe have an abundance of
(16:03):
in daily worklife anymore.
So just to givean example
I can't really namethe names here.
But I can explain what I'm
what I'm seeing is that
in probably the coolest workplacein Sweden right now.
It's a brand new office
it's a collectiveof consultancies
creative companies,tech startups.
(16:26):
They have this fantastic workplace
and they are investingin kind of a
meet and greet personwhen you get there
but it's actually a security guard.
But that person knows your name
and says, Hello, Welcome.
How are you today?
Then you can walkyour way to in
into that workspace.
The first thing that happensis a young lady
and she is combination of a
(16:48):
of a barista and receptionistcall it a bar-ceptionist.
And she also remembers names.
Remembers what kind of coffee you want and everything
and really creates this vibe without
managing maybe those thingslike yoga sessions but
really playing that role of
(17:09):
the heart of the workplace.
And so wheneveryou ask people
what's the bestwith that
coolest workplace
that is, you know, outfittedin really cool ways
and has every thinkablegreat thing in that space
the feedback is always
that lady who runs the barista reception.
(17:30):
That's what people remember and love
because they feela connection, they seem
they feel seen.
I think that's a sign of the times, Jeff.
They feel seen.
I love that
you knowit's funny
it comes backto people, right?
We're not that complicated
we’re people and we like other people.
When you seekind of
really futuristic citiesor really futuristic buildings
(17:52):
and a lot of times
these kind ofreally futuristic renderings
they don’t have any people in them, like
[Jeff] Where are the people?[Henrik] Yeah, exactly.
[Henrik] How much fun is that?[Jeff] It’s people that make it.
Yeah, buildingsare boring.
People aremore fun.
Yes
When done right.
So shifting gears a little bit
in terms of the role of data
and kind of the technical challenges
and what you have to overcome.
(18:12):
I mean, I think probably
one of the hardest things not
maybe one of thehardest things
for people runninga facility is planning food.
When they don't,
they're not surehow many people
are going to come in and out.
And you know whata huge contrast
to pre-COVID when you pretty much knew.
So I'm just curious
in kind of the role of data,the role of forecasting,
(18:33):
you know, kind of
upping the game in termsof the increased dynamism
of the marketplaceand activity,
how are, you know,your clients
using technology andnew ways to better manage
a much more dynamic and shifting
I don’t know, unpredictable
[Jeff] Maybe it feels like I can predict it[Henrik] Right
How do you managefood in 2025?
(18:56):
Yeah.
You're on to somethingreally complex here Jeff.
Appreciatethe question,
but I think I need to back the tape a bit for
for the listenersto follow on this.
If you are a huge playerin outsourcing
generally the business builds onresponding to requests for
partnershipsfor example
where you're askedto provide a lot of services
(19:18):
on a service level agreement, maybe
15, 20, 30 countries
easily it becomes quite a big contract volume,
because you also employ maybe
500 people in your own organization that suddenly
takes care of a lot of businessfor that client
connected tofor example
food, cleaning
(19:39):
building maintenance,whatever it can be.
So I think we needto understand that first.
And in 2014, for example,I was part of
or actually led thenegotiation between
between Sodexoand one of the largest
life science companiesin this world.
So I was a consultant at Ernst and Young at that time but
(20:02):
everything is about to understand
and what's the volume per service
and what's it going to cost
in those 30 countriesand really negotiate that.
And negotiatethe contract claims
was easy back then, right
Because the businesswas similar Monday, Tuesday,
Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
And nowadaysit's much more complex
(20:24):
because you really haveto understand the people flow
into buildings.
So people flow in Hungary.
Are they the sameas in Spain or in Finland?
Sweden, the US?
You can't really guesson that because,
if you guess wrong, eitheryou're come in to cheap
or come in to expensiveand it will never win.
(20:47):
So what you really need to understand is
how many people are in a building.
If you're going to serve food?
How many people will be in
this building in three weekson the Monday between
half past 11 and 1:00,for example.
How many will be in two days later
Wednesday, or example.
So if you don't know that,you will have a problem from
(21:09):
a supply chain perspectiveof ordering ingredients,
making sure that you don'tproduce too much waste,
all of these things hasbecome much more complex.
And this is also why
everything needs to become digitalized.
[Jeff] Right
So it's a good question.
And are the systemscatching up?
Are you seeingyou know, are the
is the sophistication of the modeling and things adjusting
(21:30):
now that we you know,
you've got a few yearsworth of data.
So it's not quite asthe shock as it was before.
Yeah.
[Jeff] More complicated. Right.[Henrik] It is
It is more complicated.
It's catching up.
But there is no blueprint
I would say for this.
Different clients and different companies
We do, andyou know
in certain waysfor example take a
(21:51):
if you look at our office right sizing service
that we’ve innovated over the last year
here in Sweden
it's a combination of a meeting booking platform,
co-working spaceusage and sensors
coming from the cleaning service that we do
kind of cross-referencing that
then we canreally understand
(22:11):
exactly how the building is utilized.
And from thattype of information
can also understand.
Are we overstaffedon Mondays or Fridays?
Because everyone knows that we
usually have itWednesday mountain but
today it’s actuallythe Tuesday mountain.
Tuesdays are biggerthan Wednesdays
because we know,
the movement of peoplein buildings suddenly.
(22:32):
So we arecatching up
from a digitalization perspective in that sense
but also,of course
in the platform of running restaurants.
That's also somethingthat has to be more
and more digitalizedto keep up the speed.
You have been doing this.
I think you said you've been in thisfor like 20 plus years.
Congratulations
Yeah, 21 years
[Jeff] 21[Henrik] Thank you
(22:53):
But what you haven'tbeen doing for 21 years
is playingwith AI.
And I knew I would have you on eventually
but why I had to reach out to you
the other day
and I'm just going topull up the post
because I think it's pretty wild.
You put out a postand you talked about
and I joke I call them your
your chief of staff
your cabinetyour dirty dozen.
I don't know what
what you call yourlittle worker bees
(23:15):
but this was a fascinating.
So you said that
I've got this great, effective team
and I'm just going to read it real quick
because I think it'spretty insightful.
You've got ChatGPT as your Chief Strategy and Innovation Officer
Claude as your Executive Editor-in-Residence
Perplexity as VP Research and Insight
Gemini as your Director of Real-Time Verification
(23:36):
Midjourney, Creative Director of Visual Production
Canva, Head of Rapid Design and Branding
Eleven Labs, Senior Manager of Voice Experience
Notebook LM, Chief Knowledge Curator
Gamma AI,Director of Presentation
Otter AI,Chief Meeting Historian
Ambient AI,Chief Workflow Orchestrator
and VeedThe Director of Video Content.
(23:58):
I about fell off my chair when you
when do youdropped this?
And what's interesting is
you couched it in the
that you were actually talking
to a group of executives
and asking them about their AI engagement.
And it reminds me,too, of the time
I had an interviewwith Bill Schmarzo
So he had just moved to Iowa
and went to some likeIowa development thing.
(24:19):
And they asked people, you know,
how AI is goingto impact their worlds.
And nobody,nobody raised their hand.
Yeah.
it was in like the lower,lower quadrant.
So clearly they weren't
kind of clued in towhat's going on.
So many questions.
First off this is amazing.
Thank you for thinkingand helping people.
I think yeah,
I think we're at a stagein this adoption
(24:40):
where people really need models
that we can look to other people to,
to basically patterntheir behavior
after if they're notnaturally curious.
But, you know,some basic things.
How do you keep upwith this stuff?
Do you have an AI buddy,that helps you,
you know, kind of evaluatenew applications?
You can't hardlykeep up with it
(25:00):
because there's new things
being introducedall the time.
So share a little bit generally.
And then I want to go intosome of the specifics
about how you're
using some of these toolsto really change your,
your own workflowand your own productivity.
Yeah. It'sfascinating. Jeff,
journey that I've been on
over the last year is just something else.
(25:22):
I feel today that I'm 3x’ing myself
or 3 to 4x’ing myselfin many dimensions.
And it's all part actually
I think that's worth mentioning first
personal journey.
I do pay for these thingson my own.
I need to say that first.
And, some five years ago,when the pandemic started
(25:43):
you know, I went through a divorce,
my grandmother died,my cousin died.
My father died.
I had twosmall kids.
I used to travela lot over the world
managing 16countries.
It was a big hassle actually.
And before that, I was a management consultant
traveling the world to work so
from maybe 2018,
(26:04):
I've been on a personal journey
to be more healthy,
spend more timeon stuff that I love
less on shit,
you know,
and really become a new version of myself.
And that's whatI felt last spring
that this train was aboutto leave the station.
(26:24):
The train of AI
I need to figure this out because
AI is one of the two strongest legs
in the future of work like it’s
it's AI and distributed work
and those together
kind of will dictate
how companies operating models are built going forward.
And everythingconnected to that.
So you know, I can’t be in the role of
future of work not knowing and really
(26:46):
using AI on a daily basis.
So that’s kind of the
the platform for where I am today.
I joined Daan van Rossumhave you met Daan any time?
I don't think so.
He’s a fantastic guy.
He's known in the globalmedia magazines and he runs,
(27:07):
his, FlexOS companyis a media platform today,
but they also doAI training for executives.
I jumped onthat course.
That's kind of a
from Newb to Master course
in 28 days whereyou do self studies
most of the time,but you also had meetings
with Daan.
(27:28):
And, the whole point of that is to
go in kind of naked and then you end that
course with your own AI team.
So that's respondingto one of your questions.
Do you havean AI buddy?
How do youkeep up?
Because the ingenuity with
with what Daan doesis that he also provides
(27:50):
a community that's for freeon a life time basis.
So everyone
who takes that coursewho have their,
AI team, also kind of vibesevery day.
Did you see that thing
on that AI?
Oooh
Karma just droppedanother version.
Grammarly came with this,
Copilot did this today.Did you see it?
(28:11):
That thing iswhat is
very helpful to keep up to datewith what's happening, but
to be honest
I always feel behind.
Although I know probably I’m at the top 5% in the world
user of this.
Share for peoplehow important
it is to have an AI person, buddy
(28:32):
to bounce ideas off
to share these things,to learn about new things.
Cause I think that'sa really important
piece of the puzzle.You gotta
You got to have kind ofsomebody with you.
It's so much easier to go on a journey with somebody
versus by yourself and,you know, expose blind spots
and really
help you discover new things.
(28:54):
Yeah.
And so, just sowe are super clear on this
you mean like having AIas a thinking partner?
No, I mean a person, person
like your little group.
Like yourlittle group
that you're talking about.
Yeah.
Yeah. But that's.
That's the way to do it.
I've understood that now,from spending a year
(29:15):
of really digging deepinto AI, the power of AI is,
from the individualperspective,
people getting curious.
So sharing experiencesas a social movement
that is what's going to really bring
powerful transformation in companies.
You can't really
(29:36):
set up AI strategyfor a company
and let's automatethat process.
Give an AI to people,figure this out.
You know,it's never going to happen,
because you really needto bring this power
from inside out,kind of
if you will.
Right
When you get thatsocial movement going
(29:58):
then
you know,AI is a fantastic thing
because then the skepticism disappears.
You try new thingsand be excited when
a new functionality drops and
kind of a bit of a FOMO situation as well.
Like, my buddy's been usingthat new version of ChatGPT-4.5 now
(30:18):
I haven’t eventried I need to do it.
That kindof feeling, is fantastic.
So havinga buddy
is absolutely key,
I would say
to createthis social movement.
And it's great that you wereconfused by my question
because Charles also,
who's also way down the AI path
talks about using AI as his thought buddy
(30:39):
as really a thought partner.
And the otherframing that he used
which I thought wasreally powerful
is think of it as ajunior colleague.
A smart junior colleague,but a junior colleague
there still needs to have theirwork checked now and then
before you make some kind of big commitment.
So I thought that framing was so
was so good
I wonder if you can share some of
(30:59):
the specific little tasksthat have been transformed
for you, in kind of your daily,
your daily existence byusing some of these tools.
I think we need to goby example actually
because, I do use it so much
in all of these different tools or AI tech
day by daynow so
you know, if I say
(31:19):
‘Oh I use all the toolsevery day.’
Yeah, nobody understandswhat it means.
So exactly
let's, put it like this then.
I was asked last
autumn, sometime in November,
to present at a conferenceon the future work.
From IFMA.[International Facility Management Association]
(31:40):
Can you please kind ofcome here and talk about how
distributed work and AI is developing?
So I was like, yeah,of course I can do that.
Ex-consultant. Right.
How do you doyour presentation?
How do you go about it?
You start,you know, sit down.
You do your straw manon the PowerPoint,
you can startputting in headlines,
maybe you find,
(32:01):
some presentations that you've been using before
and you try to order them and
they don't really get there.
You start writingbullet points on the slides
and it takes forever
to create such ayou know
powerful presentationthat you’re really satisfied with.
It could easilytake a week
you know if you do it part time.
That's how
I did it, at least as a management consultant
(32:22):
for many years.
But nowadaysto give that example
is that I downloadthe relevant reports
that I have.
Think kind of the Gensler report,
McKinsey, Boston Consulting Group
whatever.
That is up to dateand quite new,
into Notebook LM for example.
(32:43):
It's a Notebook LM
It's a Google product,
where you can kind of summarizes,
let's say 3,000 PDF pagesand a couple of podcasts
in a few minutes,
and I get thatbrief document
on exactly what these are about.
Suddenly I have a pretty good source
for information where
(33:03):
the world of work is going.
Take that and I lift it inmaybe to ChatGPT.
This time I would not probably choose
the 0.3 modelbecause it digs so deep.
If I'm going to do
a presentation it's
good enough with 4.5 or 4.0,
and I ask it to help mecreate that presentation.
And it really digsdeep on all of that data
(33:26):
that I foundin those reports.
And I can downloadmaybe earlier presentations
as well that I've been doing,
I ask it to prepare for PowerPoint.
Please do it on a 15-page PowerPoint
and it should take around20 minutes to present.
Then does that ina couple of seconds.
And just because ChatGPT is not that good with words,
I may take itto Claude.
(33:47):
Because Claude, it's much better with language
can instructwhat kind of tone?
In, I want the presentation to have.
Should it sound like the Monocle magazine?
Or should we should like the Financial Times
or Bloomberg or, you know,
should we use Henrik's voice and tone?
and canchoose that.
And then when we've done that
it's important to just bring it into Gamma
(34:10):
For example,the PowerPoint producer.
So lift that prepared contentof 15 page
with that specific contentinto Gamma
ask it to preservewhat I'm going to present
with the content thatI've been developing
hit generate when you’ve kind of decided
the color schemeand fonts.
Then in one minute or so
(34:30):
I have that 15 minute presentation done and ready.
So having done thatmaybe took around
let's say 30 minutes of work, everything
We are atdraft level
80% doneand good
Because the picturesmight be AI generated
I want to shift them outwith real pictures probably
(34:53):
Right
maybe add a few corporate logos.
Because I don't wantto use that in these things.
I want to be mindful and ethical
about the AI I'm using
and here's the cool stuff Jeff
We come down from maybe a week of work
to maybe an hour
to come to 80% of the presentation.
Right.
If you go back.
If you remember,
(35:13):
the first step I did herewas the notebook LLM thing
If you havetried that
you can also pick studio,the audio file.
Presentation of that
of those 3,000 pages of reports.
And you get a 17 minutesound file where you have
two podcast host talkingabout most important things.
What you can do then
is that you save that sound file
(35:37):
and you bring that into your video production AI
tool and say, can you build me a video
from that soundbitethey're talking about
from what they are talking about
and then it does that.
So suddenly you sit there
with an intro video
oh, let's saya minute or so,
(35:57):
with that audio sound file
narrating the video that the AI has developed
based on the data that I provided Notebook LM.
So, in two hours, maybe
you have an intro videoof your presentation.
You have the presentation content
PowerPoint and the outro video done.
That's pretty muchthe process because
(36:20):
you learn how to kind ofwork in a different way.
And I really like whatyou said.
It's like being a partner at McKinsey.
Right?
You have that hat on
and you have these fantastic
people around youthat are really
upbeat and really want to do a good job,
and they overdeliverall the time.
You give them tasksand you are
always in the loopas a human.
But, you know,you save so much time,
(36:42):
you get so much deeper into detail
much morecreative
and different thoughtsthat I’ve
never thought about myself, of course
Right, right.
That is agreat example.
I mean, it's so it's so funny because
when you do start making a stupid PowerPoint
and thankfully I try not to make them at all anymore
if I can avoid it.
But you always get stuck
in the colors and the fonts
(37:02):
and you knowthe simple things that
ChatGPT or these toolsare so good at will
as youjust said like
make it 15 pagesand 20 minutes.
That is like the hardest thing to do
as an authorof your own stuff.
At least for me.
I always have 10x what I need and
so when youyou know
even just to have an assistantto take your garbage and
and condense it and clean it up and
(37:23):
give me something nice and clean
is a huge value.
I love thatI love that example.
And you know, even more. Jeff. So,
as you learn, I'm a quite opentransparent guy.
I am completely okay with saying
that I have challengeswith procrastination,
because
(37:43):
Just you
You’re the only one Henrikin the whole world
that has problemswith procrastination
I admit it.
[Laughter]
I think you have a few compadres out there
that you could shuttle with.
Yeah.
This is the more
the more complex questions
that you have to deal within your everyday work.
(38:04):
Probably the more personalprocrastination you have as a human
because you really need to progress
your really needto figure out,
find the dots, the patternsin this, in this complexity
to turn it intosomething simple.
This is probably top two at least
on what I feel the power of AI is on the individual level.
(38:26):
I never get stuck anymore
because I can come easilyjust pick up the phone
and start talkingto my thinking buddy
ChatGPT for example
in advanced voice mode and say
this challenge we have with
employee engagement in that area.
(38:47):
Said I don't know whatto do it, with it.
Can we just talk about it for a while?
And maybe I do that onmy way to work or from work.
And suddenly, you know,the aha moment comes immediately
because it helps you slice the elephant
in a way that you never get stuck
if you use itin the right way.
So I think that's thethinking buddy in the AI
(39:11):
which is the most powerful thing.
Yeah, it's pretty wild.
So just to steal anothergreat line from
from Brian Elliott, whichI think is really impactful.
You know his focushas always been on
the future of workand distributed work.
And he was at Slack and,
and Future Forumand all these things.
But he made a reallyimpactful statement
that the same management attributes
(39:33):
that make a managerand a team successful,
moving to distributed work,
are the same thingsthat will enable
that same managerto basically help his team
be successful in AI,because it's about
experimentation and empowerment and
trial and error and support and you know
not being afraid to make mistakes
(39:54):
a couple hereand there along the way.
So yeah, I think it'sa really interesting
kind of progression, as you said,
distributed work isthe thing going forward.
And distributed teams,excuse me
really more importantly.
Work’s always been distributed.
But now within thisAI, overlay
it happens to be it's the same management skills,
(40:16):
it’s about risk taking and empowerment and trial and error
and encouraging people to,to embrace these new things.
Yeah, yeah, and really enthuse people to do it, you know.
Can you make your job more fun?
Can it suck less?
Can you get more creative?
Can yoube faster?
You know, can you end earlier on Friday?
(40:37):
Try, try to make it happen.
You may have to lead like that.
I think that's the right way to do it and
fun you mentioned Brian, because Brian is in the same AI
community that I am in and
It actually today andyesterday I was talking to
to Dave Cairns
I know you know Dave pretty well,
(40:57):
because he had been following my journey
with AI as well for a while and
I kind of have beentelling him you need to
you need to get into this
and today, I get these messages from Dave saying
Wow! This is thewildest thing
for the creative process.
You can utilize AI to really think deeper
(41:18):
challenge your own thinking
find your own blind spots
get deeperbecause you can
you can talk to the tech
forever on any topic,and it will bring down
the most ingenious thingsif you know how to use it.
[Jeff] Right.
So again, proof
of the social movementto creating curiosity
(41:40):
and really sharing,how you do stuff.
I think that's thezeitgeist as well.
And I want to double downon something you said.
Charles said
most people who are
having some success on this journey
in terms of theconversational interface
and the fact that just start asking it questions
I think there's ayou know
we're seeing on the posts
where these people put outthese huge poster things
(42:01):
with, you know, six pointfont on prompt engineering.
And it's
I don't even know how manywords and lines and sections
you can't even readthe stupid thing
which is so the wrong approach
and probably intimidatesthe hell out of people
because they're trying toengineer the perfect prompt.
But that's nothow it works at all.
No it isn't.
It's,
it's more like having a conversation
(42:23):
knowing how to be clear when you talk
how to kind of program
the tech early onin a new chat.
Take the role
as my world class economic analyston the food supply chain
because I really want to know
what the bottlenecksin Poland are.
How do I procure meat?
(42:45):
You know
that's the type of discussions
you can run into and
really spend hours on.
And the thing is Jeff that
it's not,compared, it
The big thing isnot comparing it
for example tohow to
how to search forinformation internet
(43:05):
But the thing is that
you think when you write
you thinkwhen you talk to this AI.
And just a year ago
I did not think when I wrote
or think when I spoke to an AI.
But today I may be spending one hour
maybe spending two hours of writing or talking to that AI
(43:29):
meaning that I'm thinkingtwo hours more per day.
So this is also part of it right?
It’s a big thing.
To spend more time thinkingyes, you will be
probably better offwhatever you're doing.
I love that.
So we're getting towardsthe end of our time.
2025.
You've been in workspace for 20 plus years.
(43:50):
You've been in this role for
the better partof a year.
As you look forward
What are some of your priorities?
What are youexcited about?
Are we making
Are we making the right moves?
Are you seeing the rightstuff in the marketplace,
or what is still some ofyour frustrations?
What’s kind of your plan for 2025?
What's yourpriorities?
Yes, I think
(44:10):
It's difficult to sound smart, right,
in these times when
on that question becausethere's so many things happening
[Jeff] That’s why I didn't say 3 to 5 years.[Henrik] in the world
I would never do that to you
[Laughter]
Even though we’ve got amacroeconomic climate
and everything but
I'm really excited about the exactly
those two societal shifts
of distributed workand AI.
(44:31):
You know, we have never seen companies
doing so much with fewer resources.
At the same time
they are laying off people.
Right?
And that's a sad story.
And AI is really coming in now
really changingthe game.
Many companies,
are trying to figure out the next generation operating model
(44:51):
This is what I'm thinking is themost interesting topic for me
How do we create and design corporate bodies?
How will they work?
How will it governthis mechanism
when people have maybe20, 30 agents each
every member of your 30 people strong
(45:12):
CFO team have 30 agents.
Every memberof your marketing team
may have 30 agents.
Just imagining.
Imagine how fastthings can be done
or how deep or how many thingswe are able to accomplish.
Can be scary
but also really fascinatingto think about.
(45:32):
So if you can take my perspective as a former
head of strategyfor Europe, for example,
usually we could spenda couple of months
or three monthsa year
to really figure outthese strategic analysis.
In 16 countriesand 100 services,
calculating compoundaggregated growth rate,
(45:53):
in every country,
in every servicefor three years ahead.
Now, you know,you can do that
within a weekif you wanted to.
But the thing isthat most companies,
they aren't there yet,but it's fascinating
to see the speed of development
and how you designthese organizations.
And what you needwhat kind of skills you need.
(46:15):
And I think people should ask themselves
exactly thatquestion.
What kind of skills do I need in my role going forward?
Because if I do not invest in, for example
AI or creating this teamsomeone else will
and I will probably not be able to get
that next real cool job.
(46:35):
Yeah.
Feels like curiosityis moving up the list
[Henrik] Curiosity[Jeff] in terms of skills and attributes.
What do you think Jeff?
If you,
had a kid today who wasaround ten years old
you were figuring outkind of
what will that kid need
when it entersthe workforce,
(46:56):
in let's say, ten years from now?
[Jeff] Yeah[Henrik] it's difficult
I think it is, it’s Curiositybecause we have no idea.
Right?
You have to be open to change
it’s curiosity and agility and resilience.
It has zero to do with any actual
tangible skill that you would learn from an apprenticeship.
It's about those.
Really more your attributes,your characteristics
(47:18):
to deal with the crazy change that is
[Jeff] is coming each and every day.[Henrik] Creativity
Yeah, exactly.
And really being able to
start ona fresh
every time you run into a challenge.
What kind of technologycan I use to get
towards this challenge and really solve it in a fast way?
(47:43):
I've been playing around with
the likes ofLovable for example.
Because, you knowwhat Lovable is?
No.
It's another AI
where you can create a home page or
kind of a
business ready platformwithin a couple of hours.
So let's say you startwith looking for
(48:04):
How can I make a cheese deliverycompany in Washington?
What do I need?
What do I need? Different types of cheese?
How will I
can solve the food supply chain for it?
And when you've done thatwithin maybe half a day
you can putall of that content
for that business planthat strategy, that campaign
(48:25):
into Lovable
and Lovableturns it into
a home page readybusiness for you.
You know, that typeof creativity
or as you say,curiosity
will be golden for anyprofessional going forward.
Yeah, yeah.
Well Henrik, we'reat the end of our time.
(48:46):
And I reallyappreciate.
I lovethe fact
that you are just pushing on edges
pushing on edges,pushing on edges. And,
you know, you mentionedthe word governance.
We didn't get into that.
We'll have to save thatfor next time.
And I think we're goingto have to rely on
on our friends on that side of the Atlantic
because, you know,based on our lack of success
around any type ofgovernance in social media
we still struggleon the privacy side.
(49:08):
You guys came up with GDPRwe can't even get
a national breachnotification policy.
And it doesn't make mefeel very confident
about what's going to happen
on these technologiesthat are moving even faster, so
We'll save the governancefor another day.
But certainlyit's exciting.
And people like youwho are
(49:28):
both embracingit with
jumping in with both feet
but also sharing the journey
so other people, you know,like Dave, even yesterday,
you know, can benefit
I think is really, really,really important
and a huge benefit toa lot of people.
Thank you very much, Jeff,
and it has beena real pleasure
to be part of thisfantastic podcast.
Thank you.
I really appreciate you coming on
and have agreat day.
(49:50):
He's Henrik,I'm Jeff
you're watching Work 20XX.
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for listeningon the podcast.
We'll see you next time.
Take care.
Cool
That was great. Man.
Yeah itwas good
and good flow
and you’re, you know
you have that magic
that most podcasthosts don’t.
Oh, that’s nice to say.
And take that with you
because it is a
(50:11):
it is still black magic for most people.
Good podcasts don’t grow on trees
as we say in Sweden.
[laughter]
Well thank you very much.
Talk to you.
Bye bye.
bye now.
Hey, Jeff Frick here.
If you've made itthis far,
thank you very much.
I really appreciate your
ongoing supportas we celebrate
Work 20XX Episode 50 with Hendrick really
(50:33):
talking about the future that,
that future of work’s evolved
from talking about days of the week
to talking about
how do you build your own
AI team behind youto help you
3x yourself,as Hendrick said.
But one of the questions he asked me,
what advice would you give someone,
say, a ten year old
who's going to be entering the workforce in ten years?
(50:54):
What do you think it’s going to be?
A skill.
And we talked aboutsome really attributes,
but I said incorrectlyprobably
or definitely that, you know
there's no skill that you could learn in an apprenticeship
that would protect youfrom this onslaught.
And the moreI think about it,
and I've actually seen some quotes,
where people say,
(51:14):
you know, be a plumber.
It’s going to be a long timebefore the robots.
And I've done a lot of work in robots
are in people's homes repairing
clogged toilets and,
doing complex remodels and
just all the thingsthat plumbers do.
So plumbers,electricians,
those are probably going
to become moreand more valuable,
(51:35):
as maybe they're
one of the latter ones to, to get automated.
We'll see.
We'll see how it shakes out.
But again, thank you for listening.
If you got this far,I really appreciate it.
Take care. Sharewith a friend.
Like subscribe and smashthat notification bell.
Leave a review.Thanks. Take care.
Bye bye.
(51:56):
Hey, Jeff Frick Here
big shout out to the podcast audience.
Thanks for listening in.
You can get show notes and transcripts at Work20XX.com
And that also has links to the videos as well.
Appreciate you listeningin on the podcast
Do reach out
say hello, like subscribeand smash that notification bell.
Thanks for listening.Take care. Bye bye.
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