May 24, 2025 • 14 mins
Phil Kirschner returns to Work 20XX with a fresh perspective on how we actually get work done, and exploring a concept he calls “vibe officing.” And yes, it’s a verb. As Phil puts it, “technology should help us be more human,” navigating between spaces, people, and pulse moments with greater flow and fewer barriers.
Sitting face to face from Running Remote in Austin, Phil shares practical insights for leaders navigating change for their teams and organizations, culture shifts, and compliance challenges, with an update on New York City’s Local Law 97.
Please join me in welcoming Phil Kirschner back to the Work 20XX podcast from Running Remote.
As founder of PK Consulting, former McKinsey expert, and veteran of WeWork’s meteoric ride, Phil has seen firsthand how organizations build, adapt, and sometimes stall. His new newsletter, The Workline, has quickly become essential reading for workplace strategists, changemakers, and executives trying to align culture, operations, and experience. We dug a little deeper into a few choice editions.
Thanks again Phil.
Recorded April 24, Running Remote, Austin
Special thanks to Liam Martin, Egor Borushko, Ana Maria Bennett & Team Running Remote
Phil Kirschner v2: Vibe, Pulse, Transparency, Nudge | Work 20XX podcast with Jeff Frick Ep45 from Running Remote
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(00:00):
Okay.
In three,
two, one.
Hey welcome back everybodyJeff Frick here
coming to you from actually Running Remote in Austin.
Work 20XX on the road.
I'm excited to get out and see
so many friends and community people
that I've met over thelast few years in this thing
to actually see them in person.
And this is one of those guys
I got to see him in New York sometime
(00:20):
but here we arein Austin.
So our next guest he’s Phil Kirschner
the founder of PK Consulting
Phil, great to see you
Good to see youin the flesh.
[Jeff] in the flesh.[Phil] here in Austin
[Jeff] Yeah.[Phil] Yes and New York next time
So you're in this,interesting little time.
You’re no longer at McKinsey
you were at WeWork
and now we're going to seewhat's coming up next.
So you're doing a very productivething here with PK Consulting,
(00:41):
I’m doing myown thing again
which is interesting because
I did it betweenWeWork and McKinsey
I never thought I would work for myself
It was a little bit out of necessity
having WeWork kind ofimplode the way it did
when I was therethe first time
it was a fascinating time to try it
[Phil] I guess[Jeff] Right
at a moment of extreme demand
for workplace strategists types
in kind of core pandemic times
(01:03):
Yeah.
But it taught me a hugeamount about like
What it means to do individual business development
and websites and
writing and all these things being on your own
So fast forward after doing thatfor about a year and a half
and then three years at McKinsey
Thankfully when I chose to leave
I kind of just blew the dust off my CRM
and turned on the machine again
(01:23):
and it didn’t feel so crazy
Which, as I think about even like
for my kids who are very young, but
it’s going to be muchmore common for them
probably in 10, 15, 20 years
to be weaving in and out of different forms
[Phil] of employment [Jeff] Oh, for sure.
or gig work or I dohalves and halves
so having done itmyself has been really
[Jeff] Yeah.[Phil] informative and fun
(01:44):
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
I mean, my grandfatherworked for AT&T for
for years and yearsand years and years
and retired and got hisbig fat pension
and then blew all the actuarialsbecause he lived the 100.
That's adifferent story.
Different story
So let's talk about some of your, episodes on Workline.
I think you got somereally cool things so
One of them recently you talked about
the fourforces of inertia.
Or excuse me?
(02:04):
The four forces that are holding people back.
[Phil] Yeah, so that, oh you’re amazing[Jeff] Inertia was one of them
that you’ve gone andchecked that today
cause that’s coming out on Thursday
but I’m happy to
[Phil] tell you about it now[Jeff] Oh, I’m ahead of the curve
[Phil] That’s okay, yeah, you’re ahead of the curve[Jeff] Oh I registered.
You, I know, I know, I really appreciate it
Yes. So would youhinted at, I
despite writing and speaking for years
I’d never kind of focused my writing in any way
especially onLinkedIn
(02:25):
one day itmight have been
very data orientedMcKinsey reports
and then the next day me spouting my mouth off about
something a broker said somewhere about the office.
I don’t knowand everything in between.
And so I launched a newsletter called The Workline
two months ago now.
Right
That word came reallyfrom the idea of like
trying to guide people on the path to the future work
(02:46):
instead of just shouting about what it’s going to be
Yes
And I think having started as a practitioner, I’ve always been
sort of see myselfand seen by others
as a bit of like a sherpa
like come with me
I want to help you do the weird change thing
[Jeff] Right
So like I will help you on the Workline
[Jeff] Right.
And the sort of double entendre.
I realized after the fact is I’m
(03:07):
I’m very tall as you now know in person
and have a mixed backgroundof IT, HR and Real Estate
So I tend to thinkI can like
see over the linesof the organization.
Yeah.
and help peoplethat way
So that's where the name came from
I like it. And I love the graphic.
[Jeff] I’ve told you, I love the graphic[Phil] Thank you yes, my half head
[Jeff] Yeah. You're half a head[Phil] Grey haired guy, easy to see
half a Phil.
But I’ve been tryingto share like
(03:28):
Share practical stories thatpeople really in the weeds of
leading change for workplace and the future of work
can hopefully useto inspire something
to unblock barriers to change
I’m still exploring with
with what I'm talking about kind of week over week
profiles of individual companies like Atlassian
kind of explainers on the nature of
(03:50):
clear digital ways of working
more sharing our work rhythms
and the newsletter that will come out this coming Thursday
I’m not sure when this video comes out
[Jeff] That's right.[Phil] Is on a
something called the Four Forces diagram
or the forces diagram
Right
which is part of the
[Phil] ‘Jobs to be done’ framework [Jeff] Good old Michael Porter
A new version of Michael Porter here.
Well there’s yeah,
there’s multipleforces diagrams, right.
(04:10):
Like McKinsey’s got oneeverybody’s got one
but the four forces diagramis designed to help figure out
Again, for the ‘jobs to be done’ frameworks.
So it comes from this mindset of
we as humans hire and fire services and products
to meet certain criteria for us
[Jeff] Okay.
and if you’re thinking about ahh
I used to buylike iPhones
(04:31):
and now I'm going to switchto like Google phones
what's holding me back
or pushing mein that direction
so it describes
both, literally, two forces in the direction that I want to go
or I want someone to go
So what’s pushing mefrom my current state
What’s pulling mefor my future state
or to the future state
and then what anxiety might I have
(04:51):
about that future state
and what inertia or habit do I have that holds me back
and it's
it is not the most comprehensive or complicated
model that I know for getting to the bottom of resistance to change
but it’s a really easy one for anyone to try.
And I hope thatmy little explainer
encourages someone to give it a whirl if they feel stuck
[Phil] with something[Jeff] Right, right
(05:12):
Do you find on the four forces
I always think of aviation, right.
Because you have gravityand you have lift,
and then you have propulsionand you have drag
[Jeff] and it's all a big trade off, right?[Phil] exactly the same
You can change the wing,but you,
you're always picking up oneand giving up the other.
Exactly
Do you find those are prettyinterrelated forces?
I mean, I think that
that model works like 100%
It’s just about balance and something that’s really
(05:33):
I’ll hear a lot for workplace change like
Oh the users don’t like it
but the group leading that change hasn’t
been guided through the process
to figure out like why don’t they
is it that they
they don’t like thething your selling them?
or they’re actually so in lovewith the current state
or have not been convinced that anything is wrong with the current state
(05:53):
they just don’twant to move.
[Jeff] Right
It’s not even like they don’t like what you’re selling
they’ve not decided thatthey need anything.
Right
And it's not so difficult to distinguish
but it’s very uncommon
so many change programs just leap right into
tell them about the new thing
and they’re going to figure it out
and they’re going to love it which
almost never happens.
Yeah, never happening.
Okay, you had another really cool one
talking about the Vibe.
(06:15):
You know, I mean one of the hugetopics of this conference
is all about culture and engagementand well-being and all these things
that are very muchrolled up into vibe.
Yeah
So talk about the vibeand how the vibe is changing
and how you get a better vibe.
Yes
So it came from two things like so
as somebody who consumes a lot of newsletters
I was seeing a lot of people talking about
(06:36):
kind of the vibe economy at this moment
the particular one being vibe coding
So AI tools allowing people to go from like
idea tosimple product
[Jeff] Just like that?[Phil] very quickly.
Even if you don't know how to code.
And once it makes something for you.
You’re just like yeah,I like this, I don’t like that
It’s all very looseand goosey and
(06:56):
was inspired originallyby a tweet
from one of theoriginal Tesla AI guys
and so fist it wasvibe coding
and then vibe revenueand all this stuff
and I then coined the phrase
vibe officing because I think we’re at this moment where
technology should be able to help us like
just be more flowy through the built environment to
(07:18):
seek things that we need for ourselves.
or to be with others
and maybe we goto our own office
maybe we go to some kind of third place
maybe one day we’re taking autonomous vehicles
because I see Waymo’s
[Jeff] Yeah, Waymo's are here.[Phil] driving around right outside, Yeah
And it shouldn’t be that hard
to just go with the flow
instead of the static model that we’re used to.
but it relates to existing real estate conversations
(07:39):
because a lot of designer, architects, and workplace types will talk about
Vibes, as like the noun
Oh, there's good vibes here we have a coffee shop vibes
[Jeff] Right, right
And then there are people who will plan spaces to be vibrant
as the, or kind of like vibrancybut vibrant is the adjective.
Right.
(07:59):
Even CBRE in a major kind of occupancy insights report
a couple of months ago
talked about like vibrancy indexes
and how people youneed to be in a place
in order for it to feel vibrant
[Jeff] to have it vibrant
But my model, as like vibe officing
I sort of imagine, it’s the verbit’s the thing you do
[Jeff] Right
It’s not just the energy around us
(08:21):
or what you’re trying to design
but it is the action that we take
and the way that technology
somewhat counterintuitively let’s us be more human
about those choices.
Right.
This is aperfect segue.
You have another one on
on really taking the pulse.
So what is the vibe?
You got to take the pulse
and really getting a better feel for
what is going onin the organization.
(08:41):
Yeah, so that article wasabout really understanding like
rhythms of the business orcadences of the business
the major you know heartbeat or pulse moments
either for regular meetings
regulardecisions
regularcommunications
regularevents.
And it's something thatI think we take for granted.
And somethingalso that
leaders tend to know intuitively.
Like board meetings are the first week
(09:03):
of every other month.
[Phil] or something, they know[Jeff] Right, whatever
Right. Right.
But it’s not transparent, hardly ever
and in particular in a more distributed and remote environment
where like people are coming and going
a lot of the time
I think there’stremendous value
in the transparency of those rhythms
so that I can plugmyself into that
(09:24):
Right, right.
Whether I’m planning gatherings, like
Oh, you shouldn’t try to plan a team gathering the same week
of every other monthwhen the board meets.
[Jeff] Right, [Phil] It’s just like
[Phil] you can’t do that[Jeff] right.
And it’s so likeseemingly difficult to
create the mega calendar of every regular meeting
or every regular cadence
in every groupin the whole company
but again AI makesthat possible today
(09:45):
Right
so that if I’m just trying to plan something
even a new like roll out of a product
Airbnb was just on the stagesaying that they do
two major releases a year.
And that guides everything for everybody
[Jeff] Yeah. [Phil] Right? And like
That's more than a pulse,that’s a major drumbeat
(10:06):
Right
So at that level it’s transparent
but when you get downto individual departments
Why shouldn't I be able to know
when the marketing group that I’m not in
meets for regular community events
cause maybe I have an idea that I can bring to them.
Absent thatinformation
and I’ve experienced this first hand
(10:26):
you’re sending emailsand having calls or meetings
just to find out
when some other groupget’s together
and that’s crazy.
Right
Like I should just be able to look that up
And then assert something
if I have ideas for how to
Right
best use of my time in that rhythm.
Right
And I love how you extend it
that really helps define the culture and the vibe
(10:48):
because like you said
I don’t have to go chase every stupid email
to find out every stupid thingthat's going on.
Yeah, we need a culture of search first
as someone said earlier this morning
So last time we talkedI don't think
local law 97 had come inin New York.
I think it has since then.
I know you're not super directlyinvolved in big transactions,
but I'm curious your perception.
(11:09):
How has that changed things?I know
when we last we talked,you know, you said
there's kind of this middletier of buildings that are
going to be in real trouble,
and this might bethe tipping point.
So has any that come to fruition?
[Phil] Yeah [Jeff] What's going on?
I’m involved inthat I mean
I live in a building that issubject to local law 97
So for anyone listening to thiswho doesn‘t’ t know
Not just offices
[Jeff] but apartments[Phil] not just offices
[Jeff] and condos[Phil] any building over 25,000 square feet
(11:30):
Okay.
So New York City now has an energy efficiency law
buildings get grades and over time
there will be penalties if you can’t meet certain requirements
And as said, it’s been very real for me
as an owner
of an apartment
in a building
that has to comply with this law
And hearing our kind of Co-op board talk about
Yeah, the first line of compliancelike, we’ll be okay.
The second lineof compliance
(11:51):
we will probably have to do a big thing.
Replace a boiler.
Do something like big and dramatic
which like the residents will have to pay for in some way.
And then when you look beyond that one
beyond maybe like level two
you’re going to start to get into
and this maybe where the interesting parallels for office is
we as a building community
(12:12):
are going to have to start to cooperate
and behave and even collaborate in certain ways
because the fines and measurement come
at total building load.
And thatis influenced
by the behavior of individual apartments.
Right.
So we all have certain kinds of equipment
we all have terrible light bulbswhatever it is
We’re blowing air conditioners 24x7
(12:32):
We’re goin to screw ourselves
like as a building.
Right.
And you could think about that
from the occupier from the real estate side
at some point
even if you have the smartest building in the world
You’re gonna have to have
populations of people who are willing to be
kind of nudged around
so that the building for example could
(12:53):
you know, shut a floor on a Friday
when only some people are around
Right
And say I’m not gonna tocondition that floor today
I’m not going to run the elevator
I moved all your meetings
I’ve rebooked all your desks
I’ve done all the stuff
you just have tofollow the nudge
and that’s like the at scale example of
you know communities will have to collaborate
even on the employer side
(13:14):
to achieve thesesustainability ratings.
[Jeff] Yeah.[Phil] But
Today, yeah, most of the New York City building stock
does not meet these kind of 2025 - 2030 requirements
And the costs are going to get passed to somebody
Right, right.
it just remains to be seenwho that is
Do you think it gets baked into the HOA
at some pointin time?
Somebody right I
there’s a rental building on my block
(13:35):
which has a much lower ratingthan my building does
and I’m thinking like where
mine’s a coop, so everyone’s an owner
but in that buildingit’s a rental
They are going to add it to the fee somewhere
and I assume thatthat will
create a bit of a flight to quality, as it should
Right right.
Well, Phil, I dig ‘The Workline’
[Jeff] Keep it up.[Phil] Thank you so much
I know, some point
(13:56):
you're going to be at some othercool big company like
[Jeff] WeWork or McKinsey or[Phil] I hope, thank you so much
[Jeff] one of those great places.[Phil] for saying that I’m
But, in themeantime,
we're all enjoying‘The Workline’
and it's really great
[Jeff] and useful information[Phil] Thank you Jeff
[Jeff] and great to meet you[Phil] I appreciate it
in personas well
Thanks
[Jeff] All right.[Phil] Take Care
He's PhilI'm Jeff
You're watchingWork 20XX
coming to you from Austin, Texasat Running Remote
Thanks for watching.Thanks for listening.
(14:16):
Catch you next time. Take care.
All right.
Boom. Wow.
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Hey, Jeff Frick Here
big shout out to the podcast audience.
Thanks for listening in.
You can get show notes and transcripts at Work20XX.com
And that also has links to the videos as well.
Appreciate you listeningin on the podcast
(14:37):
Do reach out
say hello, like subscribeand smash that notification bell.
Thanks for listening.Take care. Bye bye.
Okay.
In three,
two, one.
Hey welcome back everybodyJeff Frick here
coming to you from actually Running Remote in Austin.
Work 20XX on the road.
I'm excited to get out and see
so many friends and community people
that I've met over thelast few years in this thing
to actually see them in person.
And this is one of those guys
I got to see him in New York sometime
(00:20):
but here we arein Austin.
So our next guest he’s Phil Kirschner
the founder of PK Consulting
Phil, great to see you
Good to see youin the flesh.
[Jeff] in the flesh.[Phil] here in Austin
[Jeff] Yeah.[Phil] Yes and New York next time
So you're in this,interesting little time.
You’re no longer at McKinsey
you were at WeWork
and now we're going to seewhat's coming up next.
So you're doing a very productivething here with PK Consulting,
(00:41):
I’m doing myown thing again
which is interesting because
I did it betweenWeWork and McKinsey
I never thought I would work for myself
It was a little bit out of necessity
having WeWork kind ofimplode the way it did
when I was therethe first time
it was a fascinating time to try it
[Phil] I guess[Jeff] Right
at a moment of extreme demand
for workplace strategists types
in kind of core pandemic times
(01:03):
Yeah.
But it taught me a hugeamount about like
What it means to do individual business development
and websites and
writing and all these things being on your own
So fast forward after doing thatfor about a year and a half
and then three years at McKinsey
Thankfully when I chose to leave
I kind of just blew the dust off my CRM
and turned on the machine again
(01:23):
and it didn’t feel so crazy
Which, as I think about even like
for my kids who are very young, but
it’s going to be muchmore common for them
probably in 10, 15, 20 years
to be weaving in and out of different forms
[Phil] of employment [Jeff] Oh, for sure.
or gig work or I dohalves and halves
so having done itmyself has been really
[Jeff] Yeah.[Phil] informative and fun
(01:44):
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
I mean, my grandfatherworked for AT&T for
for years and yearsand years and years
and retired and got hisbig fat pension
and then blew all the actuarialsbecause he lived the 100.
That's adifferent story.
Different story
So let's talk about some of your, episodes on Workline.
I think you got somereally cool things so
One of them recently you talked about
the fourforces of inertia.
Or excuse me?
(02:04):
The four forces that are holding people back.
[Phil] Yeah, so that, oh you’re amazing[Jeff] Inertia was one of them
that you’ve gone andchecked that today
cause that’s coming out on Thursday
but I’m happy to
[Phil] tell you about it now[Jeff] Oh, I’m ahead of the curve
[Phil] That’s okay, yeah, you’re ahead of the curve[Jeff] Oh I registered.
You, I know, I know, I really appreciate it
Yes. So would youhinted at, I
despite writing and speaking for years
I’d never kind of focused my writing in any way
especially onLinkedIn
(02:25):
one day itmight have been
very data orientedMcKinsey reports
and then the next day me spouting my mouth off about
something a broker said somewhere about the office.
I don’t knowand everything in between.
And so I launched a newsletter called The Workline
two months ago now.
Right
That word came reallyfrom the idea of like
trying to guide people on the path to the future work
(02:46):
instead of just shouting about what it’s going to be
Yes
And I think having started as a practitioner, I’ve always been
sort of see myselfand seen by others
as a bit of like a sherpa
like come with me
I want to help you do the weird change thing
[Jeff] Right
So like I will help you on the Workline
[Jeff] Right.
And the sort of double entendre.
I realized after the fact is I’m
(03:07):
I’m very tall as you now know in person
and have a mixed backgroundof IT, HR and Real Estate
So I tend to thinkI can like
see over the linesof the organization.
Yeah.
and help peoplethat way
So that's where the name came from
I like it. And I love the graphic.
[Jeff] I’ve told you, I love the graphic[Phil] Thank you yes, my half head
[Jeff] Yeah. You're half a head[Phil] Grey haired guy, easy to see
half a Phil.
But I’ve been tryingto share like
(03:28):
Share practical stories thatpeople really in the weeds of
leading change for workplace and the future of work
can hopefully useto inspire something
to unblock barriers to change
I’m still exploring with
with what I'm talking about kind of week over week
profiles of individual companies like Atlassian
kind of explainers on the nature of
(03:50):
clear digital ways of working
more sharing our work rhythms
and the newsletter that will come out this coming Thursday
I’m not sure when this video comes out
[Jeff] That's right.[Phil] Is on a
something called the Four Forces diagram
or the forces diagram
Right
which is part of the
[Phil] ‘Jobs to be done’ framework [Jeff] Good old Michael Porter
A new version of Michael Porter here.
Well there’s yeah,
there’s multipleforces diagrams, right.
(04:10):
Like McKinsey’s got oneeverybody’s got one
but the four forces diagramis designed to help figure out
Again, for the ‘jobs to be done’ frameworks.
So it comes from this mindset of
we as humans hire and fire services and products
to meet certain criteria for us
[Jeff] Okay.
and if you’re thinking about ahh
I used to buylike iPhones
(04:31):
and now I'm going to switchto like Google phones
what's holding me back
or pushing mein that direction
so it describes
both, literally, two forces in the direction that I want to go
or I want someone to go
So what’s pushing mefrom my current state
What’s pulling mefor my future state
or to the future state
and then what anxiety might I have
(04:51):
about that future state
and what inertia or habit do I have that holds me back
and it's
it is not the most comprehensive or complicated
model that I know for getting to the bottom of resistance to change
but it’s a really easy one for anyone to try.
And I hope thatmy little explainer
encourages someone to give it a whirl if they feel stuck
[Phil] with something[Jeff] Right, right
(05:12):
Do you find on the four forces
I always think of aviation, right.
Because you have gravityand you have lift,
and then you have propulsionand you have drag
[Jeff] and it's all a big trade off, right?[Phil] exactly the same
You can change the wing,but you,
you're always picking up oneand giving up the other.
Exactly
Do you find those are prettyinterrelated forces?
I mean, I think that
that model works like 100%
It’s just about balance and something that’s really
(05:33):
I’ll hear a lot for workplace change like
Oh the users don’t like it
but the group leading that change hasn’t
been guided through the process
to figure out like why don’t they
is it that they
they don’t like thething your selling them?
or they’re actually so in lovewith the current state
or have not been convinced that anything is wrong with the current state
(05:53):
they just don’twant to move.
[Jeff] Right
It’s not even like they don’t like what you’re selling
they’ve not decided thatthey need anything.
Right
And it's not so difficult to distinguish
but it’s very uncommon
so many change programs just leap right into
tell them about the new thing
and they’re going to figure it out
and they’re going to love it which
almost never happens.
Yeah, never happening.
Okay, you had another really cool one
talking about the Vibe.
(06:15):
You know, I mean one of the hugetopics of this conference
is all about culture and engagementand well-being and all these things
that are very muchrolled up into vibe.
Yeah
So talk about the vibeand how the vibe is changing
and how you get a better vibe.
Yes
So it came from two things like so
as somebody who consumes a lot of newsletters
I was seeing a lot of people talking about
(06:36):
kind of the vibe economy at this moment
the particular one being vibe coding
So AI tools allowing people to go from like
idea tosimple product
[Jeff] Just like that?[Phil] very quickly.
Even if you don't know how to code.
And once it makes something for you.
You’re just like yeah,I like this, I don’t like that
It’s all very looseand goosey and
(06:56):
was inspired originallyby a tweet
from one of theoriginal Tesla AI guys
and so fist it wasvibe coding
and then vibe revenueand all this stuff
and I then coined the phrase
vibe officing because I think we’re at this moment where
technology should be able to help us like
just be more flowy through the built environment to
(07:18):
seek things that we need for ourselves.
or to be with others
and maybe we goto our own office
maybe we go to some kind of third place
maybe one day we’re taking autonomous vehicles
because I see Waymo’s
[Jeff] Yeah, Waymo's are here.[Phil] driving around right outside, Yeah
And it shouldn’t be that hard
to just go with the flow
instead of the static model that we’re used to.
but it relates to existing real estate conversations
(07:39):
because a lot of designer, architects, and workplace types will talk about
Vibes, as like the noun
Oh, there's good vibes here we have a coffee shop vibes
[Jeff] Right, right
And then there are people who will plan spaces to be vibrant
as the, or kind of like vibrancybut vibrant is the adjective.
Right.
(07:59):
Even CBRE in a major kind of occupancy insights report
a couple of months ago
talked about like vibrancy indexes
and how people youneed to be in a place
in order for it to feel vibrant
[Jeff] to have it vibrant
But my model, as like vibe officing
I sort of imagine, it’s the verbit’s the thing you do
[Jeff] Right
It’s not just the energy around us
(08:21):
or what you’re trying to design
but it is the action that we take
and the way that technology
somewhat counterintuitively let’s us be more human
about those choices.
Right.
This is aperfect segue.
You have another one on
on really taking the pulse.
So what is the vibe?
You got to take the pulse
and really getting a better feel for
what is going onin the organization.
(08:41):
Yeah, so that article wasabout really understanding like
rhythms of the business orcadences of the business
the major you know heartbeat or pulse moments
either for regular meetings
regulardecisions
regularcommunications
regularevents.
And it's something thatI think we take for granted.
And somethingalso that
leaders tend to know intuitively.
Like board meetings are the first week
(09:03):
of every other month.
[Phil] or something, they know[Jeff] Right, whatever
Right. Right.
But it’s not transparent, hardly ever
and in particular in a more distributed and remote environment
where like people are coming and going
a lot of the time
I think there’stremendous value
in the transparency of those rhythms
so that I can plugmyself into that
(09:24):
Right, right.
Whether I’m planning gatherings, like
Oh, you shouldn’t try to plan a team gathering the same week
of every other monthwhen the board meets.
[Jeff] Right, [Phil] It’s just like
[Phil] you can’t do that[Jeff] right.
And it’s so likeseemingly difficult to
create the mega calendar of every regular meeting
or every regular cadence
in every groupin the whole company
but again AI makesthat possible today
(09:45):
Right
so that if I’m just trying to plan something
even a new like roll out of a product
Airbnb was just on the stagesaying that they do
two major releases a year.
And that guides everything for everybody
[Jeff] Yeah. [Phil] Right? And like
That's more than a pulse,that’s a major drumbeat
(10:06):
Right
So at that level it’s transparent
but when you get downto individual departments
Why shouldn't I be able to know
when the marketing group that I’m not in
meets for regular community events
cause maybe I have an idea that I can bring to them.
Absent thatinformation
and I’ve experienced this first hand
(10:26):
you’re sending emailsand having calls or meetings
just to find out
when some other groupget’s together
and that’s crazy.
Right
Like I should just be able to look that up
And then assert something
if I have ideas for how to
Right
best use of my time in that rhythm.
Right
And I love how you extend it
that really helps define the culture and the vibe
(10:48):
because like you said
I don’t have to go chase every stupid email
to find out every stupid thingthat's going on.
Yeah, we need a culture of search first
as someone said earlier this morning
So last time we talkedI don't think
local law 97 had come inin New York.
I think it has since then.
I know you're not super directlyinvolved in big transactions,
but I'm curious your perception.
(11:09):
How has that changed things?I know
when we last we talked,you know, you said
there's kind of this middletier of buildings that are
going to be in real trouble,
and this might bethe tipping point.
So has any that come to fruition?
[Phil] Yeah [Jeff] What's going on?
I’m involved inthat I mean
I live in a building that issubject to local law 97
So for anyone listening to thiswho doesn‘t’ t know
Not just offices
[Jeff] but apartments[Phil] not just offices
[Jeff] and condos[Phil] any building over 25,000 square feet
(11:30):
Okay.
So New York City now has an energy efficiency law
buildings get grades and over time
there will be penalties if you can’t meet certain requirements
And as said, it’s been very real for me
as an owner
of an apartment
in a building
that has to comply with this law
And hearing our kind of Co-op board talk about
Yeah, the first line of compliancelike, we’ll be okay.
The second lineof compliance
(11:51):
we will probably have to do a big thing.
Replace a boiler.
Do something like big and dramatic
which like the residents will have to pay for in some way.
And then when you look beyond that one
beyond maybe like level two
you’re going to start to get into
and this maybe where the interesting parallels for office is
we as a building community
(12:12):
are going to have to start to cooperate
and behave and even collaborate in certain ways
because the fines and measurement come
at total building load.
And thatis influenced
by the behavior of individual apartments.
Right.
So we all have certain kinds of equipment
we all have terrible light bulbswhatever it is
We’re blowing air conditioners 24x7
(12:32):
We’re goin to screw ourselves
like as a building.
Right.
And you could think about that
from the occupier from the real estate side
at some point
even if you have the smartest building in the world
You’re gonna have to have
populations of people who are willing to be
kind of nudged around
so that the building for example could
(12:53):
you know, shut a floor on a Friday
when only some people are around
Right
And say I’m not gonna tocondition that floor today
I’m not going to run the elevator
I moved all your meetings
I’ve rebooked all your desks
I’ve done all the stuff
you just have tofollow the nudge
and that’s like the at scale example of
you know communities will have to collaborate
even on the employer side
(13:14):
to achieve thesesustainability ratings.
[Jeff] Yeah.[Phil] But
Today, yeah, most of the New York City building stock
does not meet these kind of 2025 - 2030 requirements
And the costs are going to get passed to somebody
Right, right.
it just remains to be seenwho that is
Do you think it gets baked into the HOA
at some pointin time?
Somebody right I
there’s a rental building on my block
(13:35):
which has a much lower ratingthan my building does
and I’m thinking like where
mine’s a coop, so everyone’s an owner
but in that buildingit’s a rental
They are going to add it to the fee somewhere
and I assume thatthat will
create a bit of a flight to quality, as it should
Right right.
Well, Phil, I dig ‘The Workline’
[Jeff] Keep it up.[Phil] Thank you so much
I know, some point
(13:56):
you're going to be at some othercool big company like
[Jeff] WeWork or McKinsey or[Phil] I hope, thank you so much
[Jeff] one of those great places.[Phil] for saying that I’m
But, in themeantime,
we're all enjoying‘The Workline’
and it's really great
[Jeff] and useful information[Phil] Thank you Jeff
[Jeff] and great to meet you[Phil] I appreciate it
in personas well
Thanks
[Jeff] All right.[Phil] Take Care
He's PhilI'm Jeff
You're watchingWork 20XX
coming to you from Austin, Texasat Running Remote
Thanks for watching.Thanks for listening.
(14:16):
Catch you next time. Take care.
All right.
Boom. Wow.
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Hey, Jeff Frick Here
big shout out to the podcast audience.
Thanks for listening in.
You can get show notes and transcripts at Work20XX.com
And that also has links to the videos as well.
Appreciate you listeningin on the podcast
(14:37):
Do reach out
say hello, like subscribeand smash that notification bell.
Thanks for listening.Take care. Bye bye.
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