December 1, 2025 • 23 mins
Allyship at work isn’t just about being “nice” — it’s about how people actually experience you. In this episode, Jess & Claude take the Ally Mindset Profile™ and unpack how they each show up as allies at work: where they shine in connection and compassion, and where candor, vulnerability, and follow-through are still a work in progress.
You’ll hear them walk through the five Ally Mindset practices (abundance & generosity, connection & compassion, courage & vulnerability, candor & debate, and action & accountability) and connect them to the “four yeses”: Can I count on you? Can I depend on you? Do I care about you? Do I trust you? Then they invite you to take the quiz yourself and compare results with your own work bestie.
🔹 Take the Ally Mindset Profile (free quiz):
https://skyeteam.cloud/youmewe
🔹 Listen next – the episodes we mention:
Morag Barrett – Unlocking Career Success Through Relationships
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2320118/episodes/17012072-unlocking-career-success-through-relationships-with-morag-barrett
Ruby Vesely – The Power of Work Bestie Culture
https://workbestieswhopodcast.buzzsprout.com/2320118/episodes/18080530-the-power-of-work-bestie-culture-5-leadership-practices-that-build-trust-joy-at-work
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Please rate, comment and provide suggestions for upcoming episodes
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jess K (00:00):
We've had the absolute joy of interviewing two of the
authors of You, Me, and We,Farag Barrett, and Ruby Vesley.
Both conversations blew usaway.
Claude F (00:09):
So today we are keeping that energy going.
We both took the Ally Mindsettest to find out how we show up
as allies at work.
And we are going to share theresults.
Hi, I'm Claude.
And I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night, and
work besties for life.
Jess K (00:28):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other
up, laugh through the chaos,and thrive together in every
industry.
Work besties.
Welcome back, Work Besties.
So if you've been followingalong, you know we've been deep
diving into You, Me, and We, thebook that sparked so many aha
(00:49):
moments about friendship andallieship at work.
Claude F (00:52):
We've now talked with two of the three authors, Morag
Barrett and Ruby Vesley.
And each of them reminded ushow real connection isn't just
nice to have, is the foundationof every strong workplace.
Jess K (01:07):
Exactly.
And after our chat with Ruby,we decided to take the Ally
mindset test ourselves and seehow we both personally show up
as allies.
Spoiler, it revealed a lot.
Claude F (01:19):
It really did.
But at the same time, we kindof knew about it, right?
We were not that surprised.
So let's break down what thistest measures and why it does
matter.
Jess K (01:31):
First, let's give you some grounding on what the Ally
mindset test is.
It's going to measure five keytraits.
It's going to go through yourabundance and generosity,
connection and compassion,courage and vulnerability,
candor and debate, and actionand accountability.
Claude F (01:49):
And all five link back to what Ruby and Moag called
the four yeses.
They are can I count on you?
Can I depend on you?
Do I care about you?
That that one cracks me up.
Jess K (02:01):
And do I trust you?
What I love about thatframework is it's mutual.
It's not just can I say yesabout you?
It's can I say yes about me aswell.
Claude F (02:12):
Exactly.
Ella ship is built in the spacebetween people.
Is the daily proof that youryeses go both ways.
Jess K (02:20):
And when even one of those yeses slips, when we can't
fully depend on, care for, ortrust each other, connection
starts to erode.
Claude F (02:29):
Which is why awareness matters more than perfection,
and how why it is important totake the test.
All right.
What did your ally mindset testreveal?
Jess K (02:41):
We talked about it goes through the five different
traits and then it gives youwhat's your strengths, so the
ones that you have the highestpercentages in and the lowest.
And I think we both decidedthat we're not going to share
the exact percentages, but weinstead went through what we had
as our top strengths.
So my top two were connectionand compassion.
So I really lead with empathyand build trust quickly.
(03:03):
Which is so true.
My second one was courage andvulnerability.
I'm open about my ownchallenges.
And then my areas that I reallyneeded to work on the candor
and debate, and I see myself dothis at times.
I'm sugarcoat feedback versusdirectly being honest.
That's an area of working on.
And then the last one where Ihave the most opportunity is
(03:27):
action and accountability.
I need to be a little bit moreconsistent on that.
Follow through and maybe notovercommitting to so many
things.
Claude F (03:35):
Well, it's also because you have so much, right?
Jess K (03:38):
You're working with a lot of teams, so it's hard
sometimes to say no.
Right.
So that's the one thing too,when you're taking this, you
want to think about it in themind, at least when we chose to
take it.
We thought about it in theworkplace of where we work from
our nine to five, not in ourrelationship.
Claude F (03:57):
Nine to five.
Yes.
Jess K (03:59):
So when you think about that, everybody's role is a
little bit different.
There's challenges constantlygoing on, which I think is
what's so cool about this quizis you probably could take it
day to day and have differentresults.
Claude F (04:10):
Totally.
Jess K (04:10):
Um, but at the same time, it gives you those areas
of where you can lean in on alittle bit more versus those
that you want to really becognizant of and work on.
Claude F (04:20):
I like also the your your strength, warm and
thoughtful, and really havingthis empathy with the team.
Oh, thank you.
Jess K (04:28):
I'll take that.
I do think my biggest strengthsreally are that connection and
compassion.
And what we've talked aboutbefore, I definitely have that
courage.
I don't suffer with impostersyndrome.
But I try to really build thattrust and lead with empathy,
empathy, and openness when I'min there.
Um, but I and I also do agreewith my areas of opportunity.
(04:52):
I I know for a fact that Iovercommit.
And um, as you commented about,I do support multiple different
teams, and there are timeswhere I commit to certain
things, but then something evenmore pressing comes out.
So I have to reassess theworkload and prioritization
daily, if not multiple times aday.
And that's hard.
Claude F (05:12):
Yeah, that must I would not like to be you.
That sucks.
Thanks.
Appreciate that.
But it's just the realreflection, right?
Because sometimes caring verydeeply makes it harder to
deliver the tough truth.
Right.
(05:33):
But there's a that can be bothways, both ways, because at the
end it goes back to truth totrust as well, right?
You can have empathy and thenyour team trusts you to tell you
the hot truth as well.
Jess K (05:46):
Yeah.
I agree with that.
I think what this did make mereflect on, though, is even
though I know and my team sitsthere and does the
reprimatization and reflectionmultiple times a day, um, that
it does at times make it looklike from the outsides that
maybe I can't be uh relied on orcounted on.
So that's something for thiswhole uh learning.
(06:09):
I do need to take that stepback and learn how can I
leverage my empathy to really bea part of that follow-through
process too, and maybe bringthose people into the journey to
say, I'm committing to ittoday, but keep in mind as the
day progresses or the weekprogresses, I may have to assess
when and what I can do.
Claude F (06:26):
Yep.
And it goes to accountability,right?
For sure.
Jess K (06:30):
Yeah, all right, my friend.
Now it is your turn.
What did you find out from yourresults?
Claude F (06:36):
So, and not that much surprise there.
My biggest one was connectionand compassion as well, because
I really do care about peoplewell-being, and I always try to
make it also fun at the sametime, having conversations.
Um, for me, it's importantbecause we are our just trying
(06:59):
to five jobs, we are more funwith our co-workers, our team
than with you know our family.
So you want to have it, havefun.
And then my second one wascandor and debate.
I'm comfortable in being directin some ways, um, because I
(07:20):
have this empathy with my team.
My team knows that and trustsme, and they know that when I
mean something, I really mean.
And I sometimes don't sugarcutas much.
Uh, I'm being nice about it, ofcourse, but I'm very factual.
And I do think that my teamappreciates that.
(07:42):
My growth area is courage andvulnerability.
Um, sometimes I hold backemotionally because I don't want
to burden others.
So that is a fault, also.
I always had is kind of umdelegating.
I'm afraid because I haveempathy, I'm afraid to burden my
(08:05):
team.
So I will sometimes do thework, or because I forgot to
tell them and now the timing istoo tight.
So I will do it because I feellike it's not fair on them.
Um, and then the second one isaction and accountability.
I tend to procrastinate.
Um, so I'll wait until the lasttime to do the last minute to
(08:29):
do a project.
I'll still do it.
It's still, I think, donecorrectly, but I'll go crazy
until it's done.
Uh, unfortunately, that'ssomething that I've been dealing
with dealt with since even Iwas in college.
Jess K (08:45):
Yeah, I think you brought that up in a different
episode too, how that'ssomething that you try and work
on as well.
Yeah, but at the end of theday, it works, so I don't learn
my lesson.
Well, that feels very on brandfor you.
You happen to be very warm, andI I get you're direct, but you
definitely are still warm whenyou do it.
Yeah.
And I think the thing that youlean in on where you're much
(09:07):
stronger than me is you're neverafraid to say what those others
are thinking.
So I did notice that themajority of our results were
similar, but I think we had someslight tweaks, which really the
main difference was the umcando and debate.
Yes, cando the courage andvulnerability for me.
(09:30):
The only two that were likeslightly flip-flop between the
two of us, which is interesting.
So I feel that goes back tosome of the things we've talked
about in the past too, and whatwe both lean in on um and how
we've both been working ondifferent parts of ourselves.
It's interesting because thearea that I know I still need to
(09:51):
be better about is being thatdirect and building that
relationship from thatperspective.
Claude F (09:56):
Yeah.
Jess K (09:56):
So it's cool that we have the complementary element.
Claude F (10:00):
If you take that test, it's really, really interesting
because you're going to learnall those different yeses, but
also what it means.
Yeah.
And also you can go back andsee, you know, you it's not only
about the others, aboutyourself as well.
So that I think it's reallycool because I can see that I'm
(10:21):
strong for the others, but notfor myself.
Looks like a Kendra and debatefirst.
So question your status quo.
Yeah.
So that is for myself.
Ask for what you need and thenrecalibrate relationship
expectations.
Jess K (10:36):
So I feel like I don't know, from my perspective, on
the myself, like focusing onwhat I'm doing for me.
I don't know that I have theissues.
That's gotta be on the others.
Claude F (10:47):
So on the others is ask what's working and what's
not working.
I definitely do that.
You do that.
I do that.
Yeah.
Do that.
Seek to increase sharedunderstanding of other
perspectives, especially duringdisagreement.
I do that.
Name and address the elephantin the room.
Jess K (11:05):
That's probably it.
I'm not great about that.
Yeah.
Claude F (11:08):
So I do that, but I make it in a sneaky way.
Okay.
Like I'll ask a question when Iknow the answer, so that people
will answer and they'll findout by themselves the elephant
in the room.
Jess K (11:24):
You're asking them a question that gets them to
specifically say, Oh, I see theelephant right there.
Correct.
Got it.
Instead of saying being rude,it's not a yes-no, but it's
open-ended of what the result,what you created, what is that
result, and how will it apply tothis elephant?
Claude F (11:41):
Like, I won't say, Hey, that won't work.
Right.
You know?
Right.
That's the elephant in theroom, and I'm like, but I'll be
sneaky.
I'm like, okay, so what's out?
Play it out.
I'll find out.
Jess K (11:54):
Okay, that's smart.
All right, you're helping me.
Claude F (11:59):
Uh, and then finally is provide clarity through
powerful questions andarticulation, no, and
articulating your perspective.
So it's kind of what I said,even that.
Jess K (12:10):
But I feel like I do that.
I think it depends on if thefeedback is the part that I
probably am the weakest in, butI definitely do articulate to
people.
Claude F (12:18):
But so I just want to make sure that's your growth
opportunity.
But when we look at percentage,you're still in the average.
It's not like you're Oh, yeah,it was above the average.
You're still above the average,right?
But it's still like you canmake it.
You're not there.
Jess K (12:35):
I wasn't needed 100%.
So if we wanted to work on onearea of that, what what would be
the point?
I think what we're trying to dois deduce where that's a gap
better.
All right, so let's do yours.
Yours is courage andvulnerability.
Let's go through what that is,and then you you can kind of do
the same assessment that I wastrying to figure out.
(12:55):
Okay, so being a friend toyourself.
Do you feel like the courageand vulnerability is more on
yourself or to others?
I think it's more on myself.
Okay, ask questions.
Let's ask a question.
So the first one is show moreof who you really are.
Claude F (13:07):
So if we I'm I'm kind of an open book.
Jess K (13:10):
Yeah, I don't think people.
So I share too much actually.
Speak your truth to self andothers.
I think you do that.
I do that.
Expand your comfort zone.
I do that.
Claude F (13:23):
Honor your beliefs and values.
Not always.
So, like honor my my belief.
So, for example, in in a worksetting, there's something that
has to be done.
I don't agree.
I will say once time, twotimes, three times, and say my
point of view.
But at the end, this time Ipaycheck.
(13:44):
So after saying I don't agree,I'll do it.
Obviously, if it's not likeillegal or in illegal or hurting
someone.
Jess K (13:53):
Oh, I know, I know what you mean about to do the
disclaimer.
No, I know.
Okay.
Um, so do you think it's moreon that?
We can go over what the otherones are too, just in case.
So being a friend to others,um, encourage others to share
their truth by creating asession.
I do this, model vulnerabilityby sharing your own challenges
and uncertainties.
(14:13):
I do that.
Support informed risk taking.
Claude F (14:17):
Nah, maybe not.
Support informed.
What does that mean?
Jess K (14:20):
Uh support informed risk.
So it would be like um thosethat are risk taking, you
support them even if it mightnot be the right approach.
Claude F (14:31):
Yeah, that maybe not.
That might be the one where I'mnot that good at.
Jess K (14:40):
So I think you're strong in that one.
Claude F (14:41):
So it's probably stronger, but I still don't like
it.
Jess K (14:46):
Doesn't yeah, I don't know that this rated us based on
what we like to do versusdon't.
Yeah.
Claude F (14:53):
I don't think.
Well, I will procrastinate, butat the end of the day, I will do
it.
Jess K (14:59):
Right.
Well, I think to be yeah, well,that goes to what we both had
the largest opportunities, whichwas the action and
accountability.
And I think we both agreed thatthose are things that we
actively are aware of andworking on, which um I think we
both already called out, butit's probably worth it to say,
go through what these lists areso it ties back to.
Claude F (15:19):
And it's going to be more on ourselves than on the
other people.
Yeah.
Jess K (15:24):
Sure.
So we'll go through the thefriend to others first because
we know we probably are okaywith that.
And then we can talk aboutthat.
Okay.
So the being the friend toothers is demonstrate peer
accountability.
Have your colleagues back,provide reminders on their goals
as needed.
We definitely do that a lot.
We've talked about how when wewere on the same team, we used
(15:44):
to send emails exactly at thesame time to make sure and keep
each other accountable to dohave the exact date that was
needed.
Exactly.
Claude F (15:52):
And reminding the other one because we didn't want
one to look better than theother.
Yeah.
So from a peer perspective, Idon't I gotta do it.
Jess K (15:59):
I think you and I are strong in this, but we'll go
through this.
Yeah, okay.
Go first, take personalresponsibility for the health of
your professionalrelationships.
I can say I see you doing thisalready and me as well.
Like, this is just showcasingthat you still are responsible,
like helping others at the sametime as keeping yourself strong.
Claude F (16:18):
Yeah.
Jess K (16:19):
Strive for joint ownership versus individual
blame.
Oh, yeah.
We definitely both do that.
Claude F (16:24):
And to uh fault actually, like at the end, no,
well, at the end of the day, Ido believe that when you're a
manager and you're managingpeople, at the end of the day,
it's a reflection on you, right?
So I know that if my like, forexample, my boss or whatever
will say, Hey, that wasn't done,what I'm going to say is say,
(16:47):
Yep, it's on me on that onebecause I didn't explain well or
I didn't give.
So, and I think it showsmaturity, right?
And being there for your team.
Jess K (16:58):
Yeah, yeah.
I think the joint ownershipversus individual blame,
especially individual blame,especially when it is warranted,
but and then the last one iscelebrating other successes and
joint wins, which we bath wedefinitely both do for sure.
Claude F (17:10):
And I know I say that several times in all the other
podcasts.
What I like doing, and I seenow my team doing that.
When someone goes above andbeyond, I will send them an
email and CC the boss.
We tend to always say somethingwent wrong, but not when it
goes well.
So I always make sure I dothat.
(17:31):
I do being a friend toyourself.
Perfect.
Create new patterns or ritualsthrough continuous learning and
practice.
Jess K (17:41):
I don't know about you, but I definitely do that.
So that's not where I'mfalling.
Because I do anytime thingsdidn't work, I do a quick
assessment of why and create newrituals of how to fix things.
Claude F (17:52):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Always like, you know, at theend, not everything is always
going to go right.
So how can we make itunderstood?
Practice brutal focus.
Jess K (18:04):
That's where I'm not so good.
I don't know how you can dothat in any organization,
though.
People are in meetings non-stopand still expected to have
answers to things while you'rein meetings.
During that day, at the end ofthe day, you're constantly doing
two to three things at onetime.
It's really hard.
But if you block out the times,I yes, there's tips and tricks
(18:25):
we could do to try and get tothat, but it's it's a harder one
to accomplish.
All right, so celebrate smallwins about yourself.
Claude F (18:34):
Yeah, I know.
Um I'm like, it's my job.
I'm support well, I'll do it tomyself.
Sometimes I'm like, yes, I'mhappy, but not on everything.
Jess K (18:44):
You do, but you don't do it consistently.
Like there was one time Iremember you like telling the
your team, like, oh look at IDM,and you're like so proud of it.
I know it was so stupid.
Oh, I do that.
I do that, yeah.
I do it probably more so to mypeer set andor my boss than
maybe to the team.
So I probably should celebratemore with the team.
But I still I do celebrate thesmall wins because goodness
(19:08):
knows you need something thathelps keep you going.
Claude F (19:12):
Remember when I was so proud of myself.
I did tell you when I couldpull from that database.
Jess K (19:18):
Oh, I was thinking about like some deck that you had
done that you were like superexcited about.
For me, it was the pull of thedatabase.
Um, all right, what's the lastone?
Claude F (19:27):
Hold yourself accountable to do what you see
you will.
Jess K (19:32):
That's where I fall.
I get inundated with tasks,projects from many different
teams.
So every day I have to sitthere and reassess.
Okay, I did commit to you thatI would have this to you by the
end of the day, but somebodyasks for something that's going
directly to the CEO, so I'myours gets Trump.
So the problem that I have is Ihave to constantly go back and
(19:52):
say, here's the new date I can Ican hit.
Um so and some of that is someof that's a resourcing versus a
true reality.
But the it does look like anaccountability issue because it
looks like I'm avoiding or notdoing when that's usually not I
I even say it's like whoshouldn't it's usually it's
never not the case.
I'm always working.
(20:12):
Yeah, you do.
Yeah.
Claude F (20:14):
I for me I'll do okay, I can let me get back to you,
I'll give it to you later on.
Jess K (20:20):
But the majority in you were in one of these meetings of
the people will say, I need it,I need this date.
And they're even when I say oneof them say, Okay, where's the
date?
I tried it.
You were one of them where Isaid it's unrealistic for me to
have this by your date.
What's an actual date?
Or I just can't do it.
And your response was great, Istill need it by that date.
(20:40):
Yeah, so that doesn't seem towork.
Maybe that goes back to myissue with some of the other
opportunities I have of callingpeople out.
But yeah, it's it's aninteresting.
You can call me out.
Claude F (20:55):
I didn't need to.
Jess K (20:56):
I did, and everyone on my peer set was like, You were
so close, girl, you were soclose.
Claude F (21:02):
Yeah.
Jess K (21:03):
All right, anyway.
So now we've gone through ours.
It's time for you, work bestie,to do the same thing.
Um, again, we'll link in ourshow notes how to take the ally
mindset test.
It's super easy, it's free.
You get the results likeinstantly.
Um, and it's fun.
(21:25):
It is fun.
And it does make you reflect onthings.
Claude F (21:28):
Oh, totally.
And also what you can dobetter, because at the end,
we're always there to try tobetter ourselves.
Yeah.
Jess K (21:36):
Um, and if you're interested, we as we mentioned,
we did have episodes with booktwo out of the three authors.
Eric, we're coming at you next.
Um, we had interviews withMirag and Ruby, and we will link
those as well.
They are fantastic, both ofthem.
And we learned so much.
Claude F (21:53):
Yeah, go back and listen to those episodes.
In the meantime, you take thetest, speak about it with your
work besties, and also tag us,tag at work besties podcast, and
tell us your top ally mindsettrait, because we would really
love to hear from you and whereyou shine and where you want to
work on.
(22:14):
And maybe if you have tips andtricks for us.
Yeah, it's go back to thelittle community, right?
Jess K (22:20):
And helping each other.
Yeah, because being a greatally and a great friend
definitely go hand in hand.
And until next time, keepshowing up and keep connecting.
Claude F (22:30):
And remember, work is always better with your work
bestie by your side.
Jess K (22:36):
Remember, whether you're swapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings, or just
sending that perfectly timedmeme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
spot.
Claude F (22:49):
So keep lifting each other up, laughing through the
chaos, and of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive, and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
We've had the absolute joy of interviewing two of the
authors of You, Me, and We,Farag Barrett, and Ruby Vesley.
Both conversations blew usaway.
Claude F (00:09):
So today we are keeping that energy going.
We both took the Ally Mindsettest to find out how we show up
as allies at work.
And we are going to share theresults.
Hi, I'm Claude.
And I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night, and
work besties for life.
Jess K (00:28):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other
up, laugh through the chaos,and thrive together in every
industry.
Work besties.
Welcome back, Work Besties.
So if you've been followingalong, you know we've been deep
diving into You, Me, and We, thebook that sparked so many aha
(00:49):
moments about friendship andallieship at work.
Claude F (00:52):
We've now talked with two of the three authors, Morag
Barrett and Ruby Vesley.
And each of them reminded ushow real connection isn't just
nice to have, is the foundationof every strong workplace.
Jess K (01:07):
Exactly.
And after our chat with Ruby,we decided to take the Ally
mindset test ourselves and seehow we both personally show up
as allies.
Spoiler, it revealed a lot.
Claude F (01:19):
It really did.
But at the same time, we kindof knew about it, right?
We were not that surprised.
So let's break down what thistest measures and why it does
matter.
Jess K (01:31):
First, let's give you some grounding on what the Ally
mindset test is.
It's going to measure five keytraits.
It's going to go through yourabundance and generosity,
connection and compassion,courage and vulnerability,
candor and debate, and actionand accountability.
Claude F (01:49):
And all five link back to what Ruby and Moag called
the four yeses.
They are can I count on you?
Can I depend on you?
Do I care about you?
That that one cracks me up.
Jess K (02:01):
And do I trust you?
What I love about thatframework is it's mutual.
It's not just can I say yesabout you?
It's can I say yes about me aswell.
Claude F (02:12):
Exactly.
Ella ship is built in the spacebetween people.
Is the daily proof that youryeses go both ways.
Jess K (02:20):
And when even one of those yeses slips, when we can't
fully depend on, care for, ortrust each other, connection
starts to erode.
Claude F (02:29):
Which is why awareness matters more than perfection,
and how why it is important totake the test.
All right.
What did your ally mindset testreveal?
Jess K (02:41):
We talked about it goes through the five different
traits and then it gives youwhat's your strengths, so the
ones that you have the highestpercentages in and the lowest.
And I think we both decidedthat we're not going to share
the exact percentages, but weinstead went through what we had
as our top strengths.
So my top two were connectionand compassion.
So I really lead with empathyand build trust quickly.
(03:03):
Which is so true.
My second one was courage andvulnerability.
I'm open about my ownchallenges.
And then my areas that I reallyneeded to work on the candor
and debate, and I see myself dothis at times.
I'm sugarcoat feedback versusdirectly being honest.
That's an area of working on.
And then the last one where Ihave the most opportunity is
(03:27):
action and accountability.
I need to be a little bit moreconsistent on that.
Follow through and maybe notovercommitting to so many
things.
Claude F (03:35):
Well, it's also because you have so much, right?
Jess K (03:38):
You're working with a lot of teams, so it's hard
sometimes to say no.
Right.
So that's the one thing too,when you're taking this, you
want to think about it in themind, at least when we chose to
take it.
We thought about it in theworkplace of where we work from
our nine to five, not in ourrelationship.
Claude F (03:57):
Nine to five.
Yes.
Jess K (03:59):
So when you think about that, everybody's role is a
little bit different.
There's challenges constantlygoing on, which I think is
what's so cool about this quizis you probably could take it
day to day and have differentresults.
Claude F (04:10):
Totally.
Jess K (04:10):
Um, but at the same time, it gives you those areas
of where you can lean in on alittle bit more versus those
that you want to really becognizant of and work on.
Claude F (04:20):
I like also the your your strength, warm and
thoughtful, and really havingthis empathy with the team.
Oh, thank you.
Jess K (04:28):
I'll take that.
I do think my biggest strengthsreally are that connection and
compassion.
And what we've talked aboutbefore, I definitely have that
courage.
I don't suffer with impostersyndrome.
But I try to really build thattrust and lead with empathy,
empathy, and openness when I'min there.
Um, but I and I also do agreewith my areas of opportunity.
(04:52):
I I know for a fact that Iovercommit.
And um, as you commented about,I do support multiple different
teams, and there are timeswhere I commit to certain
things, but then something evenmore pressing comes out.
So I have to reassess theworkload and prioritization
daily, if not multiple times aday.
And that's hard.
Claude F (05:12):
Yeah, that must I would not like to be you.
That sucks.
Thanks.
Appreciate that.
But it's just the realreflection, right?
Because sometimes caring verydeeply makes it harder to
deliver the tough truth.
Right.
(05:33):
But there's a that can be bothways, both ways, because at the
end it goes back to truth totrust as well, right?
You can have empathy and thenyour team trusts you to tell you
the hot truth as well.
Jess K (05:46):
Yeah.
I agree with that.
I think what this did make mereflect on, though, is even
though I know and my team sitsthere and does the
reprimatization and reflectionmultiple times a day, um, that
it does at times make it looklike from the outsides that
maybe I can't be uh relied on orcounted on.
So that's something for thiswhole uh learning.
(06:09):
I do need to take that stepback and learn how can I
leverage my empathy to really bea part of that follow-through
process too, and maybe bringthose people into the journey to
say, I'm committing to ittoday, but keep in mind as the
day progresses or the weekprogresses, I may have to assess
when and what I can do.
Claude F (06:26):
Yep.
And it goes to accountability,right?
For sure.
Jess K (06:30):
Yeah, all right, my friend.
Now it is your turn.
What did you find out from yourresults?
Claude F (06:36):
So, and not that much surprise there.
My biggest one was connectionand compassion as well, because
I really do care about peoplewell-being, and I always try to
make it also fun at the sametime, having conversations.
Um, for me, it's importantbecause we are our just trying
(06:59):
to five jobs, we are more funwith our co-workers, our team
than with you know our family.
So you want to have it, havefun.
And then my second one wascandor and debate.
I'm comfortable in being directin some ways, um, because I
(07:20):
have this empathy with my team.
My team knows that and trustsme, and they know that when I
mean something, I really mean.
And I sometimes don't sugarcutas much.
Uh, I'm being nice about it, ofcourse, but I'm very factual.
And I do think that my teamappreciates that.
(07:42):
My growth area is courage andvulnerability.
Um, sometimes I hold backemotionally because I don't want
to burden others.
So that is a fault, also.
I always had is kind of umdelegating.
I'm afraid because I haveempathy, I'm afraid to burden my
(08:05):
team.
So I will sometimes do thework, or because I forgot to
tell them and now the timing istoo tight.
So I will do it because I feellike it's not fair on them.
Um, and then the second one isaction and accountability.
I tend to procrastinate.
Um, so I'll wait until the lasttime to do the last minute to
(08:29):
do a project.
I'll still do it.
It's still, I think, donecorrectly, but I'll go crazy
until it's done.
Uh, unfortunately, that'ssomething that I've been dealing
with dealt with since even Iwas in college.
Jess K (08:45):
Yeah, I think you brought that up in a different
episode too, how that'ssomething that you try and work
on as well.
Yeah, but at the end of theday, it works, so I don't learn
my lesson.
Well, that feels very on brandfor you.
You happen to be very warm, andI I get you're direct, but you
definitely are still warm whenyou do it.
Yeah.
And I think the thing that youlean in on where you're much
(09:07):
stronger than me is you're neverafraid to say what those others
are thinking.
So I did notice that themajority of our results were
similar, but I think we had someslight tweaks, which really the
main difference was the umcando and debate.
Yes, cando the courage andvulnerability for me.
(09:30):
The only two that were likeslightly flip-flop between the
two of us, which is interesting.
So I feel that goes back tosome of the things we've talked
about in the past too, and whatwe both lean in on um and how
we've both been working ondifferent parts of ourselves.
It's interesting because thearea that I know I still need to
(09:51):
be better about is being thatdirect and building that
relationship from thatperspective.
Claude F (09:56):
Yeah.
Jess K (09:56):
So it's cool that we have the complementary element.
Claude F (10:00):
If you take that test, it's really, really interesting
because you're going to learnall those different yeses, but
also what it means.
Yeah.
And also you can go back andsee, you know, you it's not only
about the others, aboutyourself as well.
So that I think it's reallycool because I can see that I'm
(10:21):
strong for the others, but notfor myself.
Looks like a Kendra and debatefirst.
So question your status quo.
Yeah.
So that is for myself.
Ask for what you need and thenrecalibrate relationship
expectations.
Jess K (10:36):
So I feel like I don't know, from my perspective, on
the myself, like focusing onwhat I'm doing for me.
I don't know that I have theissues.
That's gotta be on the others.
Claude F (10:47):
So on the others is ask what's working and what's
not working.
I definitely do that.
You do that.
I do that.
Yeah.
Do that.
Seek to increase sharedunderstanding of other
perspectives, especially duringdisagreement.
I do that.
Name and address the elephantin the room.
Jess K (11:05):
That's probably it.
I'm not great about that.
Yeah.
Claude F (11:08):
So I do that, but I make it in a sneaky way.
Okay.
Like I'll ask a question when Iknow the answer, so that people
will answer and they'll findout by themselves the elephant
in the room.
Jess K (11:24):
You're asking them a question that gets them to
specifically say, Oh, I see theelephant right there.
Correct.
Got it.
Instead of saying being rude,it's not a yes-no, but it's
open-ended of what the result,what you created, what is that
result, and how will it apply tothis elephant?
Claude F (11:41):
Like, I won't say, Hey, that won't work.
Right.
You know?
Right.
That's the elephant in theroom, and I'm like, but I'll be
sneaky.
I'm like, okay, so what's out?
Play it out.
I'll find out.
Jess K (11:54):
Okay, that's smart.
All right, you're helping me.
Claude F (11:59):
Uh, and then finally is provide clarity through
powerful questions andarticulation, no, and
articulating your perspective.
So it's kind of what I said,even that.
Jess K (12:10):
But I feel like I do that.
I think it depends on if thefeedback is the part that I
probably am the weakest in, butI definitely do articulate to
people.
Claude F (12:18):
But so I just want to make sure that's your growth
opportunity.
But when we look at percentage,you're still in the average.
It's not like you're Oh, yeah,it was above the average.
You're still above the average,right?
But it's still like you canmake it.
You're not there.
Jess K (12:35):
I wasn't needed 100%.
So if we wanted to work on onearea of that, what what would be
the point?
I think what we're trying to dois deduce where that's a gap
better.
All right, so let's do yours.
Yours is courage andvulnerability.
Let's go through what that is,and then you you can kind of do
the same assessment that I wastrying to figure out.
(12:55):
Okay, so being a friend toyourself.
Do you feel like the courageand vulnerability is more on
yourself or to others?
I think it's more on myself.
Okay, ask questions.
Let's ask a question.
So the first one is show moreof who you really are.
Claude F (13:07):
So if we I'm I'm kind of an open book.
Jess K (13:10):
Yeah, I don't think people.
So I share too much actually.
Speak your truth to self andothers.
I think you do that.
I do that.
Expand your comfort zone.
I do that.
Claude F (13:23):
Honor your beliefs and values.
Not always.
So, like honor my my belief.
So, for example, in in a worksetting, there's something that
has to be done.
I don't agree.
I will say once time, twotimes, three times, and say my
point of view.
But at the end, this time Ipaycheck.
(13:44):
So after saying I don't agree,I'll do it.
Obviously, if it's not likeillegal or in illegal or hurting
someone.
Jess K (13:53):
Oh, I know, I know what you mean about to do the
disclaimer.
No, I know.
Okay.
Um, so do you think it's moreon that?
We can go over what the otherones are too, just in case.
So being a friend to others,um, encourage others to share
their truth by creating asession.
I do this, model vulnerabilityby sharing your own challenges
and uncertainties.
(14:13):
I do that.
Support informed risk taking.
Claude F (14:17):
Nah, maybe not.
Support informed.
What does that mean?
Jess K (14:20):
Uh support informed risk.
So it would be like um thosethat are risk taking, you
support them even if it mightnot be the right approach.
Claude F (14:31):
Yeah, that maybe not.
That might be the one where I'mnot that good at.
Jess K (14:40):
So I think you're strong in that one.
Claude F (14:41):
So it's probably stronger, but I still don't like
it.
Jess K (14:46):
Doesn't yeah, I don't know that this rated us based on
what we like to do versusdon't.
Yeah.
Claude F (14:53):
I don't think.
Well, I will procrastinate, butat the end of the day, I will do
it.
Jess K (14:59):
Right.
Well, I think to be yeah, well,that goes to what we both had
the largest opportunities, whichwas the action and
accountability.
And I think we both agreed thatthose are things that we
actively are aware of andworking on, which um I think we
both already called out, butit's probably worth it to say,
go through what these lists areso it ties back to.
Claude F (15:19):
And it's going to be more on ourselves than on the
other people.
Yeah.
Jess K (15:24):
Sure.
So we'll go through the thefriend to others first because
we know we probably are okaywith that.
And then we can talk aboutthat.
Okay.
So the being the friend toothers is demonstrate peer
accountability.
Have your colleagues back,provide reminders on their goals
as needed.
We definitely do that a lot.
We've talked about how when wewere on the same team, we used
(15:44):
to send emails exactly at thesame time to make sure and keep
each other accountable to dohave the exact date that was
needed.
Exactly.
Claude F (15:52):
And reminding the other one because we didn't want
one to look better than theother.
Yeah.
So from a peer perspective, Idon't I gotta do it.
Jess K (15:59):
I think you and I are strong in this, but we'll go
through this.
Yeah, okay.
Go first, take personalresponsibility for the health of
your professionalrelationships.
I can say I see you doing thisalready and me as well.
Like, this is just showcasingthat you still are responsible,
like helping others at the sametime as keeping yourself strong.
Claude F (16:18):
Yeah.
Jess K (16:19):
Strive for joint ownership versus individual
blame.
Oh, yeah.
We definitely both do that.
Claude F (16:24):
And to uh fault actually, like at the end, no,
well, at the end of the day, Ido believe that when you're a
manager and you're managingpeople, at the end of the day,
it's a reflection on you, right?
So I know that if my like, forexample, my boss or whatever
will say, Hey, that wasn't done,what I'm going to say is say,
(16:47):
Yep, it's on me on that onebecause I didn't explain well or
I didn't give.
So, and I think it showsmaturity, right?
And being there for your team.
Jess K (16:58):
Yeah, yeah.
I think the joint ownershipversus individual blame,
especially individual blame,especially when it is warranted,
but and then the last one iscelebrating other successes and
joint wins, which we bath wedefinitely both do for sure.
Claude F (17:10):
And I know I say that several times in all the other
podcasts.
What I like doing, and I seenow my team doing that.
When someone goes above andbeyond, I will send them an
email and CC the boss.
We tend to always say somethingwent wrong, but not when it
goes well.
So I always make sure I dothat.
(17:31):
I do being a friend toyourself.
Perfect.
Create new patterns or ritualsthrough continuous learning and
practice.
Jess K (17:41):
I don't know about you, but I definitely do that.
So that's not where I'mfalling.
Because I do anytime thingsdidn't work, I do a quick
assessment of why and create newrituals of how to fix things.
Claude F (17:52):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Always like, you know, at theend, not everything is always
going to go right.
So how can we make itunderstood?
Practice brutal focus.
Jess K (18:04):
That's where I'm not so good.
I don't know how you can dothat in any organization,
though.
People are in meetings non-stopand still expected to have
answers to things while you'rein meetings.
During that day, at the end ofthe day, you're constantly doing
two to three things at onetime.
It's really hard.
But if you block out the times,I yes, there's tips and tricks
(18:25):
we could do to try and get tothat, but it's it's a harder one
to accomplish.
All right, so celebrate smallwins about yourself.
Claude F (18:34):
Yeah, I know.
Um I'm like, it's my job.
I'm support well, I'll do it tomyself.
Sometimes I'm like, yes, I'mhappy, but not on everything.
Jess K (18:44):
You do, but you don't do it consistently.
Like there was one time Iremember you like telling the
your team, like, oh look at IDM,and you're like so proud of it.
I know it was so stupid.
Oh, I do that.
I do that, yeah.
I do it probably more so to mypeer set andor my boss than
maybe to the team.
So I probably should celebratemore with the team.
But I still I do celebrate thesmall wins because goodness
(19:08):
knows you need something thathelps keep you going.
Claude F (19:12):
Remember when I was so proud of myself.
I did tell you when I couldpull from that database.
Jess K (19:18):
Oh, I was thinking about like some deck that you had
done that you were like superexcited about.
For me, it was the pull of thedatabase.
Um, all right, what's the lastone?
Claude F (19:27):
Hold yourself accountable to do what you see
you will.
Jess K (19:32):
That's where I fall.
I get inundated with tasks,projects from many different
teams.
So every day I have to sitthere and reassess.
Okay, I did commit to you thatI would have this to you by the
end of the day, but somebodyasks for something that's going
directly to the CEO, so I'myours gets Trump.
So the problem that I have is Ihave to constantly go back and
(19:52):
say, here's the new date I can Ican hit.
Um so and some of that is someof that's a resourcing versus a
true reality.
But the it does look like anaccountability issue because it
looks like I'm avoiding or notdoing when that's usually not I
I even say it's like whoshouldn't it's usually it's
never not the case.
I'm always working.
(20:12):
Yeah, you do.
Yeah.
Claude F (20:14):
I for me I'll do okay, I can let me get back to you,
I'll give it to you later on.
Jess K (20:20):
But the majority in you were in one of these meetings of
the people will say, I need it,I need this date.
And they're even when I say oneof them say, Okay, where's the
date?
I tried it.
You were one of them where Isaid it's unrealistic for me to
have this by your date.
What's an actual date?
Or I just can't do it.
And your response was great, Istill need it by that date.
(20:40):
Yeah, so that doesn't seem towork.
Maybe that goes back to myissue with some of the other
opportunities I have of callingpeople out.
But yeah, it's it's aninteresting.
You can call me out.
Claude F (20:55):
I didn't need to.
Jess K (20:56):
I did, and everyone on my peer set was like, You were
so close, girl, you were soclose.
Claude F (21:02):
Yeah.
Jess K (21:03):
All right, anyway.
So now we've gone through ours.
It's time for you, work bestie,to do the same thing.
Um, again, we'll link in ourshow notes how to take the ally
mindset test.
It's super easy, it's free.
You get the results likeinstantly.
Um, and it's fun.
(21:25):
It is fun.
And it does make you reflect onthings.
Claude F (21:28):
Oh, totally.
And also what you can dobetter, because at the end,
we're always there to try tobetter ourselves.
Yeah.
Jess K (21:36):
Um, and if you're interested, we as we mentioned,
we did have episodes with booktwo out of the three authors.
Eric, we're coming at you next.
Um, we had interviews withMirag and Ruby, and we will link
those as well.
They are fantastic, both ofthem.
And we learned so much.
Claude F (21:53):
Yeah, go back and listen to those episodes.
In the meantime, you take thetest, speak about it with your
work besties, and also tag us,tag at work besties podcast, and
tell us your top ally mindsettrait, because we would really
love to hear from you and whereyou shine and where you want to
work on.
(22:14):
And maybe if you have tips andtricks for us.
Yeah, it's go back to thelittle community, right?
Jess K (22:20):
And helping each other.
Yeah, because being a greatally and a great friend
definitely go hand in hand.
And until next time, keepshowing up and keep connecting.
Claude F (22:30):
And remember, work is always better with your work
bestie by your side.
Jess K (22:36):
Remember, whether you're swapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings, or just
sending that perfectly timedmeme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
spot.
Claude F (22:49):
So keep lifting each other up, laughing through the
chaos, and of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive, and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
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