August 4, 2025 • 36 mins
EP 61: Finding Hope — The Power of Starting Over with Gretchen Schoser
What if your greatest breakdown became the foundation for your most powerful breakthrough?
This week, we’re joined by Gretchen Schoser — suicide survivor, mental health advocate, and co-host of the award-winning podcast Sh!t That Goes On In Our Heads — for a raw and deeply inspiring conversation about resilience, healing, and the messy beauty of starting over.
At 61, Gretchen launched a new career and a new company, blending technical know-how with lived experience to support others in their mental health journey. In this episode, she gets real about the signs we often ignore (in ourselves and others), why laughter can be just as therapeutic as therapy, and how storytelling helps us feel less alone.
Whether you’ve faced your own battles or want to show up better for someone who has, this episode reminds us:
✨ It’s never too late to rewrite your story
✨ Self-care is a survival tool — not a luxury
✨ Owning your reality is where healing begins
🔑 Topics include:
• Recognizing signs of mental health struggles
• Setting boundaries and prioritizing self-care
• Podcasting as a path to healing
• Reinventing life after 60
• Why finding joy is an act of resilience
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Work Besties! Theme Song Written by Ralph Lentini @therallyband
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jess (00:00):
They say it's never too late to start over, but what
does that really look like?
Today?
We're joined by Gretchen mentalhealth advocate, podcast host
and tech founder, who provesthat resilience doesn't retire.
So, as you listen, ask yourselfwhat story about your life or
your limits are you ready torewrite?
(00:20):
And stay with us to the veryend, because Gretchen will
answer the one thing you can dotoday to start again, no matter
what age, no matter what yousurvive.
Claude (00:30):
Hi.
I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night and
work besties for life.
Jess (00:39):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry.
Work besties.
Gretchen Schoser (00:51):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Claude (00:54):
We are so excited to have you as well.
Thank you so much.
I mean, your biography isincredible and so inspiring.
You have shared your journey asa suicide attempt survivor, and
it is incredible to really sayit out loud right, it's such a
courage.
Can you take us back to amoment that really redefined
(01:18):
what resilience really means toyou and what came next?
Gretchen Schoser (01:23):
Well, for me it was the day after my suicide
attempt.
I'm a true extrovert and anempath, so nobody knew how
depressed I was, not even mywife.
We'd been together 28 years atthat point and I opened up onto
social media and let people knowwhat was going on with me,
because these were people that Iwould show up to work every day
(01:44):
, smiling and making sureeverybody else was laughing
except for me.
And as soon as I did that, Ihad about 200 people reach back
out to me and say thank you,because now they didn't feel so
terrified and alone in their ownjourney.
But they were also terrified,right, because they had no idea
how depressed I was.
If you're an extrovert out thereand you have that mask on, take
(02:06):
it off, because the only personyou end up hurting is yourself.
And so for me, my resiliencewas I started therapy right away
and I just started to put onefoot back in front of another
and dug into therapy and I knewI wanted to live.
There was that small glimmer ofhope that something was going
to get better, and it did, butit came in like an avalanche
(02:27):
form, not in a little trickle.
Claude (02:31):
I love when you say for whoever the extrovert, take off
your mask.
How do you do that?
Do you confide?
Gretchen Schoser (02:40):
to someone.
Yeah, that's one way, like ifyou don't have somebody that you
would call a good friend or aspouse or you didn't feel
comfortable opening up to youknow somebody in your inner
circle.
There are crisis hotlinesacross the world and if you live
in an area other than the US orCanada, you can go out to the
helphubco and that lists out allthe crisis lines across the
(03:05):
world.
At least talk to one person, atleast let somebody know that
you're not okay, because when wesock away all that pain and
that hurt into our belly, wedon't give anybody the
opportunity to help us make itto that next minute, that next
hour, the next day, and it'skind of like vice versa, right?
(03:26):
So if you have, if you're afriend to somebody who's an
extrovert and you're not surehow to dig it out of them, ask
us a question that we actuallyhave to answer.
Don't ask us like, hey, how'sthe day going?
Because my typical response was, oh, I'm living the dream, like
everything's good.
Ask a question hey, how's yourmental health today?
(03:46):
Or check in on them via text.
Everybody loves a good text.
Maybe send a funny meme thatwould drag it out of them to
like laugh, but it works bothways.
So we not only have to open up,but people have to notice signs
, and I think that for me,that's what people missed is
they missed the signs.
Jess (04:04):
I was going to ask you what were some signs that people
did miss with you?
Or now that you've becomeinvolved in it, are you seeing
as signs that are kind of moreuniversal?
Gretchen Schoser (04:14):
Funny you say that.
So I just finished my thirddraft of my book, right?
And if you ever want to learnabout yourself, write a book.
So, like, a few things werelike I started to just check out
.
I didn't want to go to parties,I didn't want to hang out with
people, all I wanted to do wassit in my recliner and color.
I got super disengaged withwork Around.
(04:38):
The same time I had beenoffered an early retirement and
like they had taken away all myduties.
So I was sitting around workfor like eight hours a day doing
nothing.
So if you've ever been in acareer and something that you
really, really love and it'sbeing taken away from you and
then all of a sudden you findout you have nothing to do, it
(04:59):
makes you feel worthless, rightLike so I would like just check
out.
I'd like surf the web all day,doom scrolling stuff that you
shouldn't do.
And then the final thing wasand people should have picked up
on this when we went to NewYork City a couple weeks before
I attempted suicide, I got superdrunk, like super, super drunk,
(05:20):
so uncharacteristic for me.
I got so drunk I lost my cellphone in New York City.
I fell and broke my nose in thehotel room and then had to go
get a brand new thousand dollarphone.
And if you've ever lost yourphone, right despite if you're
drunk or not, it's veryheart-wrenching because I was
(05:40):
thinking to myself I'm not goingto be able to log into work now
because of authentication andall that.
Nobody put two and two together.
They just thought I was havinga good time, but I was slowly.
Claude (05:51):
It was a cry for help.
Gretchen Schoser (05:52):
It was a cry for help that I didn't realize
that I needed At the time.
I was 59 and a half, so in mygeneration we've all been taught
not to talk about our mentalhealth.
Kind of suck it up and movealong your day, and that's
exactly what I did.
I also didn't realize what wasgoing on inside me.
I just wanted to check out.
Claude (06:16):
I was done because a lot had happened between September
and December in 2022.
It is important for us,especially with a friend or
extrovert, to check and reallylook at their mental health,
because they might hide it.
Gretchen Schoser (06:27):
We are masters at it, okay, not a badge of
honor.
When you approach people, justbe kind.
Especially right now, the worldis literally on fire, literally
.
So if you're not sure how, whatsomebody else's mental health
statuses, just be nice.
It costs absolutely nothing tobe nice.
If you don't have anything niceto say, walk away, because that
(06:51):
can really hurt somebody.
Claude (06:53):
We always say right, be nice, because you never know
what someone is going through.
Gretchen Schoser (06:57):
It's so true For me.
I would show up to meetings andbe laughing and smiling and
cracking jokes and helpingeverybody else out.
What I didn't do is I didn'ttake care of me.
And you know how they sayself-love and self-care are the
buzzwords, but they are notbuzzwords.
If you are not taking care ofyourself, there's absolutely no
way you can help anybody else.
Jess (07:18):
Gretchen, I get being extroverted and really trying to
take on that persona at work,but at home that's kind of your
place, right.
So do you still do that?
Were you still doing that there?
Gretchen Schoser (07:31):
To give you a little bit of context of what
happened.
Those couple of months beforeeverything happened, my wife had
shingles and she was down foreight weeks.
So if you've ever been aroundanybody that has shingles, you
know how devastating that is.
During that time I hit andkilled a deer and then I got
(07:53):
catfish.
Thankfully I woke up from thedepression dream long enough to
make sure I didn't end upspending any money.
Then we had a good friend ofours pass away unexpectedly.
My father-in-law passed awaytwo days before Thanksgiving,
throw in some seasonaldepression and some holiday
depression.
So I'm absorbing everybodyelse's pain but still showing up
with a smile on my face everyday because that's what people
(08:13):
needed.
Claude (08:14):
So you were taking care of others instead of really
taking care of yourself that youneeded at this point, or even
someone to take care of you.
Gretchen Schoser (08:22):
you know it was just a whole lot of things
that happened in a really shortperiod of time.
Yeah, that is a lot.
Jess (08:29):
Thank you for sharing all of that.
You're welcome I think there'shelping to just ask those
questions, regardless if you'resomebody close or not, and
helping to tease that out ofsomebody is so important and I
know you've now become veryactive in it in and of yourself.
Would you mind sharing some ofthat and how you became an
advocate?
Gretchen Schoser (08:49):
been friends for like seven years.
Every day, after everythingwent down, we would call each
other and laugh, and we wouldlaugh about things you should
never, ever, ever, ever laughabout.
(09:10):
But here's the thing aboutlaughter it really.
It breaks up your cortisol, itincreases your serotonin, gets
your endorphins going.
So no matter how crappy the daywas going to be, we could
always go back to thatconversation and laugh and we
did Mm-hmm.
We left at stuff that I'm surewe're going to go to hell for.
I'm almost positive.
(09:31):
But like it just helped changethe trajectory of the day.
And so it was during one ofthose phone calls.
It was in the middle of the dayand she was asking me what
somebody was doing.
I was like I don't know and westarted talking about squirrels
and a whole bunch of like crazystuff.
And it was after thatconversation because we had
laughed for like 40 minutes Ihad tears in my eyes.
She's like let's do a podcast.
(09:54):
And I was like, okay, we'll doa podcast.
We thought we would do likethree episodes and be done,
joke's on us.
But we wanted to start a podcastwhere we can normalize how we
talk about mental health Because, like I said, everybody that
knew me was terrified that theydidn't see the signs.
They didn't understand how Icould go from 10 to a zero and
(10:20):
not have anybody know.
Every time we share ourjourneys, we unlock somebody
else's prison, because here inthe United States we have mental
health crises like every singleday.
We don't have theinfrastructure to really help
those that need it.
Some people don't haveinsurance and can't get into
C-therapy.
Some people have devised newtechniques that aren't
sanctioned anyplace else, andthen there's also, like websites
(10:41):
that we even gave out, like twoyears ago, that are no longer
available.
So having people come onto thepodcast and share those insights
and those tips and tricksreally helps people feel seen
and feel heard.
We unlock their prison and nowthey're not so alone in what
they're going through, and sothat was one of the first things
(11:03):
that we did.
I wanted to write a book aboutmy experience.
I just finished my third draft.
I'm super happy with it,getting ready to chug through
and finish it, but I want peopleto see me as a story of hope,
because, even though I was sodepressed and so horribly
checked out, I'm a story of hopebecause I didn't give up and I
(11:27):
refuse to give up.
I refused to stop movingforward because life keeps
throwing these amazingopportunities into my lap and I
keep showing up, and I thinkthat's what part of my
resilience is, that I keepshowing up, but I show up a
little bit different now than Idid back in the day.
The first thing my therapisttaught me was boundaries.
(11:48):
If you have not set boundariesyet, please set your boundaries.
They are life-changing.
The power of no is an amazingfeeling.
And then the other thing theytaught me is how to put my
shields up, because I am anempath.
So instead of being everybody'scome and suck the life out of
me, now I get to pick and choosewho gets to suck the life out
of me, and that's reallyimportant for everybody.
(12:12):
Even if you're not an empath,learn when to put up your
shields, because you need toreflect some of that energy back
on yourself and take care ofyour inner child.
I also figured out it's okay toplay.
I'm going to be 62 next month.
I still play.
Playing is good.
It's good for my heart.
It's good to play.
I am going to be 62 next month.
I still play.
Playing is good.
It's good for my heart.
It's good for my soul.
Those three things reallyhelped push me through and my
(12:37):
co-host, dirty Skittles.
We are still the best offriends.
I still call her every morning,we laugh about things she
should never, ever, ever laughabout.
And what's hard is like shestill works.
Works there and I have sinceopened up my own company, so my
free time is a little bit morethan what hers is, but I still
can make her laugh and I thinkthat's crucial.
Claude (12:57):
Definitely.
You just say in the samesentence next month is I'm 62
and I just opened my own company.
Can you a bit like let us knowa bit about that, Because a lot
of times we think 62, that's it,I'm retired.
So it's really having newbeginning and it's never too
late.
Gretchen Schoser (13:16):
It's never too late.
So here's what happened.
After I retired, I got reallybored and decided to go work for
a small consulting firm, andthat's exactly what I wanted.
I didn't want to go back to abig business.
I didn't want to work for 8million people, so I wouldn't
work for this company for untilNovember of last year.
And then in November that smallconsulting firm got picked up
(13:38):
by, or acquired by, one of thetop five consulting firms and
immediately I was like no, thisis not going to happen.
We would be on camera and Iwould just have resting bitch
face.
I couldn't make it go away.
Right?
People are like you need tocome off your camera.
And I'm like I'm going to comeoff the camera and I'm going to
come back on.
It's going to be the same face.
And I had gotten to the pointwhere I wasn't going to
(13:59):
compromise anymore.
I wanted to do the things thatmade me happy and this time,
when I got depressed, everybodyknew I got in and hide it.
I let everybody know around methat I was checked out and, like
everybody, rallied around me.
It was an amazing feeling.
We had gotten a couple ofsponsors for the podcast, but
this big consulting firm thatwas taking us over.
(14:21):
They had like an independentclause, and so what that meant
is that we couldn't do businesswith these sponsors because that
company had done audits withthem.
And I was like, well, this isnot going to work for me,
because if it was just me, I'dbe like, oh okay.
But you know what?
I had a co-host to think about,and then I'd had a couple of
people approach me about my bookand I really wanted to finish
(14:43):
my book, and so I was likehemming and hawing about, like I
just want to quit.
I just wanted to quit.
So like I didn't want to bringit up to my wife because like a
few other things were going on.
We celebrated our 30thanniversary a couple months ago,
we were trying to plan a cooltrip, so like I didn't want to
broach the subject.
But we're in New York City forChristmas and we were at dinner
(15:06):
and she's like, hey, I know youreally hate your job.
You can quit.
If you've ever felt like aweighted x-ray blanket, come off
your shoulders.
It was the best feeling in theworld, but I still wanted to
work.
So we're flying home on the22nd of December.
I forgot how long it takes tothe isoplane, it takes like a
couple hours, which was perfectfor me.
(15:28):
So I had my phone and I had myresume on my phone and I had
ChatGPT.
And I'm like so I fed my resumeinto ChatGPT, I said, based on
my 45 years in corporate Americaand everything I've done with
the podcast, help me form anindependent consulting firm.
Two minutes later it spit outpretty much everything I wanted
to do, except for like the lasttwo thirds no-transcript to work
(15:57):
.
On January 2nd I turned in mytwo weeks and people were like
shocked.
Honestly, remember my face?
Remember the face?
Do you not know how to read theroom?
And so, like it was likeanother moment of like where the
you know the weight just gotlifted off of me.
And so I, that same day, Iopened up my company and formed
(16:19):
my LLC.
And on December, on January 22ndof this year, um went ahead and
um opened my company for realand I just did it.
And people are like, how didyou do that?
Aren't you ready to check out?
And I'm like no, because Istill have so much to offer the
world and I'm truly a subjectmatter expert in my technical
(16:40):
field and I have a lot ofpassion around the wellness
field Because now more than ever, people need to feel like it's
okay to talk about their mentalhealth, not to be ashamed to
talk about your mental healthand to be okay with your mental
messiness.
I'm going to tell you, 98% ofthe people out there have some
(17:03):
mental messiness going on andthey may not want to talk about
it, but the more we talk aboutit, the less stigma there is
Totally, and it helps morepeople too, right, yeah?
Claude (17:12):
And I know someone that you know know that should go to
therapy but doesn't want becauseagain, older generation, et
cetera.
And I'm like look, if you havea headache or you have the
measles, you go and see a doctor, right.
Why is the same thing?
You know mental health is thesame thing.
You go and see you have a need.
You go and see a doctor, right.
(17:33):
Why is the same thing?
You know mental health is thesame thing.
You go and see you have a need,you go and see someone.
There's nothing to shame aboutit, it's funny.
Gretchen Schoser (17:36):
I had to speed date my therapist, and that's a
term that Dirty Skittles cameup with.
I had to go through threetherapists before I found the
one that worked.
And, you know, person-to-persontherapy may not work for
everybody, which is cool,because there's 80,000 different
types of therapies out therethat will work for you.
I also dabble in a little bitof art therapy.
(17:58):
I, you know, do tapping, I donature as therapy when it's not
super cold or super hot outside,and I practice gratitude every
day, like I will tell everybodyI am so grateful to be alive
every single day.
Claude (18:20):
Yeah, it goes back again of your message of hope that
you're like really the hope.
Gretchen Schoser (18:23):
It wasn't easy .
I shed a lot of tears, I lost alot of friends because they
don't like the new me.
But you know what?
I am not everybody's Mattanymore.
Yeah right, I am my own Matt.
So if mama's not happy,nobody's happy.
Jess (18:38):
Right, right, and they weren't obviously providing back
to you.
So if they wanted to leave,that's probably the best.
Hey, you know what.
Gretchen Schoser (18:43):
I leave the door open, always a smidge, if
they want to come back in.
Jess (18:50):
I don't completely shut the door Going along the lines
of the reinvention and youstarting your business which
congratulations, knowing thatyou did do this later in life.
What do you want other people,especially kind of those women
that are in that same age or anyadults in the same age range,
to know about starting over?
Gretchen Schoser (19:05):
Just do it.
Don't be afraid to start over,don't?
It's not the first time Ireinvented myself.
It's the biggest time Ireinvented myself.
Don't be afraid to do it,because you're never going to
know if it's going to work outunless you try it.
I did write out my pros andcons list.
You know I had a lot more prosthan I had cons.
For the first time in my life Idon't have health insurance.
(19:27):
I can't justify the cost.
I'm pretty careful about walkingoutside because here's what
happens when you turn 60 pluslike things don't heal like they
used to, so you have to beextra careful.
But be adventurous.
Go find your joy.
You know there's so many peopleout there in their twenties and
thirties and forties that areout there chasing the money and
(19:47):
chasing the dream.
Don't chase any of that.
Go chase your happiness,because at the end of the day,
that's what's going to get youexcited, to get up every morning
.
That's what's going to get youexcited about working 10-hour
days and not even realize thatyou're working 10-hour days.
I do that a lot now.
Find your passion.
Go with lead, with your heart,because there's so many
(20:08):
different things you can do outthere in the world today that
you don't need to work for acompany to do it.
You can work for yourself andstill find the same joy, and
that's what I do.
Every day.
I find a different joy insomething I'm doing.
Claude (20:22):
And what do you want other people, especially women
and older people you know toknow about?
Gretchen Schoser (20:29):
starting over.
Don't be afraid, because youcan be a tiny bit afraid, but
don't let fear hold you back.
You know you've had all theseyears of doing life, living life
.
You've lived experiences.
Lived experiences are huge,right.
It's so much better than havinga college degree in something.
If you walk into a company andsay, I've had these lived
(20:51):
experiences, or if you createyour own company based on your
lived experiences, it'sauthentically yours.
Nobody gets to steal that fromyou.
Okay, the same thing goes fortherapy.
How are you know it's not goingto work?
If you don't try, at least try.
Right, if it fails, it fails,but at least you tried, and
(21:11):
that's always been my why.
If it doesn't work out, I canalways try again.
But that's what life is about.
It's like finding those thingsin your life that bring you joy
and that service your purposeand, I don't know, makes you get
up and smile in the morning.
I smile more now than I have in20 years, and my wife even said
that.
She said that's the happiestshe's seen me in 20 years,
(21:32):
because I get to do this on myown.
I'm not working for the man.
I get to decide who I want towork with, when I want to work
Like yesterday.
I took a three-hour nap.
It was perfect.
You know.
I turned to the boss.
I, perfect.
I turned to the boss.
I'm like, hey, can we take athree-hour nap?
And the boss said sure, and soI did it.
Sure, go ahead, but don't beafraid.
Just get out there and makethat list of things that you
(21:55):
maybe have dabbled in in earlieryears.
Go back and put some focus onthat.
There's so many ways to makemoney now.
But when you're making it,you're also smiling, Because how
many other times have you goneto a corporate job and you sit
in your chair and you're likeGod, is it five o'clock yet?
And it's like two minutes aftereight.
Yeah, we've all been there.
Claude (22:16):
Yes, or is it Friday yet and it's only Monday?
Jess (22:20):
Yeah, gretchen you mentioned about your podcasting.
It sounds like you gotsponsorships from that too, so
you are making some money off ofthat as well.
Gretchen Schoser (22:28):
Crazy.
Thing.
Jess (22:30):
It's amazing.
We know the challenges andhustle that it takes for
podcasting, so we commend you onthat.
You kind of explained whatinspired the podcast.
Gretchen Schoser (22:48):
But I'm curious what's been some of the
most surprising elements ofhaving that podcast that's
helped you with your healingprocess?
Wow, what a great question soearly on in the podcast.
It was just Dirty Skittles andI and we started bringing on
guests and as we brought onthose guests, we got to heal
along with our guests.
You know, most people that wehad talked to up until that
point had shared their storywith us over a microphone but
(23:11):
had never shared it with anybodyface-to-face, and so you know
like I felt honored that theywould come onto our show and
talk to us about their mentalhealth journey and things like
that, and we're very willing tolike share their resources and
really wanted to get the messageout there that there is help.
You can still put one foot infront of the other.
(23:33):
But we had a guest and she wasby far one of my favorite guests
.
It was our friend Bookie, alsoknown as Liz, and she had
end-stage breast cancer,terminal breast cancer, and when
she came on, her episode wasthe most life-altering podcast
I'd ever listened to, justbecause of her whole outlook
(23:55):
about life.
She didn't have a bucket list,she lived every moment to its
fullest.
She made sure that her kids andher family were taken care of.
For us, you know, we went andgot our wills done and took care
of all that.
It was just her outlook on life.
And she passed away a monthafter we our episode aired and
(24:17):
it was heartbreaking, but Istill refer back to that episode
because of everything that shetaught me.
Jess (24:23):
It's touching, that's amazing.
Wow, that's heavy.
I mean, yeah, it's heavy, butit's kind of uplifting at the
same time too.
Gretchen Schoser (24:33):
It's heavy and we do talk about a lot of heavy
, heavy topics on the podcast werecord one Saturday a month and
we record five to eightepisodes one Saturday a month
and because I'm in charge of thecalendar, I get to make sure
that it's not a bunch of heavytopics all on one Saturday
because we have to go take careof our own mental health.
It's super therapeutic for bothof us.
(24:55):
We call it our free therapy andyou know we always inject some
type of laughter into ourepisodes, even though we talk
about some really heavy topics,because once again we go back to
laughter.
Laughter is a natural healerand it just really breaks up.
You know that hard stuff andyou know makes it feel real.
Claude (25:15):
And for our listener, can you share the name of your
podcast?
Gretchen Schoser (25:19):
I sure can.
So the name of our podcast isShit that Goes On In Our Heads,
and when you look it up it's gotan exclamation point for the
eye because apparently shit isstill a bad word.
Don't understand why Stilltrying to figure that out, and
we are on every platform outthere and how fun.
Claude (25:37):
Do you have Dozie Drops?
Gretchen Schoser (25:39):
So right now we are dropping one episode a
week on Tuesdays.
Starting mid-July we are goingto drop two episodes a week.
That's a lot.
We have a huge backlog and Ifeel bad for our guests.
And the other thing with us iswe're fully booked with guests
until June of 2026.
Jess (26:00):
Congratulations.
Gretchen Schoser (26:02):
It's insane.
Jess (26:03):
Yeah, it's crazy.
That's amazing, though.
Congratulations.
That's a good sign good signthat you'll continue to share
those stories.
Gretchen Schoser (26:12):
My little nuggets, the little nuggets that
are out there Like, but for us,for me, like it's not work.
It's my passion project and youknow, my wife would always say
to me she's like I've never seenyou work so hard on something
you don't get paid for.
Well joke on her because we nowdo get paid, but like it has
nothing to do with the moneybecause the mission was never
(26:33):
around making money for us.
It's about sharing thesestories and these journeys and
helping the world heal.
Jess (26:40):
Why do you believe that storytelling is so therapeutic
for the mental health recovery?
Gretchen Schoser (26:46):
I think that people, like even with when I
was, you know, sitting upwaiting to like take my life is
that we feel so alone andterrified and sometimes we don't
know how to open up.
For me, I didn't know how to, Icouldn't find my voice and I
couldn't find my footing becauseI didn't understand what was
going on inside of my head.
By us sharing our stories, onelittle thing that we say may
(27:09):
unlock something in somebodyelse's head.
Being like this is exactly howI'm feeling and I can see how
they were able to get from pointA to point B.
Maybe, since it worked for them, it'll work for me.
We have listeners from all overthe world and in some cases,
they may not know how to reachout to a crisis hotline, so we
want to make sure that peoplehave those resources.
(27:31):
They may not have a closefriend that lives nearby, so
they don't know who to open upto.
That's why you can contact acrisis line Because, like with
the 988 crisis line here in theUS and Canada, it's not just for
suicide ideation, it's for anytype of crisis, and those
numbers are free and anonymous.
And, you know, the lady thatpicked up the phone the day I
(27:53):
called was the mostcompassionate lady I'd ever
spoken to.
So getting that information outto our listeners, letting them
know it's okay to open up, evenat 59 and a half, even at 62,
it's okay to open up Like we arenot we are not perfect humans
right?
We all have messiness in ourlife that we don't know how to
(28:15):
deal with, and the nice thingabout podcasts is that they are
not geographical based.
We don't have any boundaries.
We are listened to all over theworld, just like you guys are.
What may have worked for mehere in the US may work for
somebody in Germany, and that'swhy I think it's so important
that we keep sharing our stories.
We keep getting the message outthere that it's okay to talk
(28:38):
about your mental health andthat there should be no shame
and you're not weak, asking forhelp.
Claude (28:43):
I really see this community that help each other
and really take away the wholetaboo about mental health.
I mean, it is a huge withoutborder community.
Gretchen Schoser (28:54):
I've seen a huge shift, even in the last two
years, especially on LinkedIn.
You know companies are reallystarting to tune in and if you
ever wonder why you're notmaking your bottom line, I don't
know, maybe check in on youremployees and make sure that
their mental health is okay.
They are a key factor to youbeing successful.
Jess (29:14):
That's probably one that most companies are not even
thinking of at all.
Gretchen Schoser (29:17):
Not now, but that's part of my company's
mission is to give themresources that can help them
think about that that can helpthem think about that.
Claude (29:30):
A lot of companies start to see that and start to give
resources like women's resources, mental health resources, even
sometimes having some classesduring the day about burnout,
stress and etc.
It's starting.
Still a lot of improvement areneeded, but I think that,
especially since COVID, itreally triggered the whole
(29:50):
message of mental health 100%.
Gretchen Schoser (29:53):
I will tell you that during COVID I felt
like I was in prison as anextrovert, you know.
I couldn't talk to people, Icouldn't touch people, I
couldn't go outside For me.
I still had a job to go toevery day and had things to do.
But I can't imagine somebodythat was stuck at home with
somebody that they didn't reallylove or were in an abusive
(30:15):
situation and how that reallyaffected their mental health.
And thankfully now people aregetting super in tune with their
own feelings and opening upabout it and not feeling shame,
especially men.
It's okay to ask for help.
There is absolutely zero shameand if people are shaming you,
(30:37):
then shame on them.
You know, what?
Maybe like turn around and lookat the mirror.
Claude (30:41):
And I think it's.
On the contrary, it's astrength right To be able to
open up.
On the contrary, it's astrength right to be able to
open up.
It's you really need to bestrong to be able to do that.
Gretchen Schoser (30:53):
And you have to be super vulnerable.
I hope my voice and my storyhelps somebody make it through
the next day or the next week orthe next month.
It's never too late to startover.
There's no shame in asking forhelp and find your joy.
That's what I do Every morning.
I start with a 20-minute funnyvideo.
It's cats and goats.
Lately I don't know what'swrong with me, maybe a few
(31:16):
raccoons thrown in there.
But I also end that with whatI'm grateful for, and I've done
that every day since January20th and it's really helped my
mental health.
Jess (31:25):
I get up and do affirmations, but I feel like
that's still in my mind whatkeeps me from sanity.
But maybe I'll switch it up tosome cat and goat video.
Gretchen Schoser (31:35):
Maybe throw in a few baby raccoon videos,
because you know they're cuteand funny.
Jess (31:41):
They are cute.
They look like little burglars.
They are, they're littlehamburglars.
I feel like your littlesynopsis right there was almost
like the ending to a podcastright there.
That was fantastic.
I do think those are threemantras that everybody should be
thinking about every day andincorporating into their life
for sure.
(32:01):
So what's one belief aboutmental health, age or resilience
you wish more people wouldchallenge?
Gretchen Schoser (32:14):
It's never too late to start over.
Not at all.
You can start small, right?
Maybe don't just up and quityour job, but start small.
Start thinking about thosethings that you did back in your
20s and 30s that made you happy, and figure out ways that you
can take that and turn it into apassion project.
Go from that passion projectand think about how you can help
somebody with their mentalhealth struggles.
Part of that is being kind.
(32:36):
You have no idea what a kindstatement is to somebody who's
really struggling.
Even the same thing with a text.
Just send them a funny text ifyou can get them out of their
head.
But make sure that you'resincere in what your intentions
are and know that you are lovedand you are wanted and needed in
(32:57):
this world and that, no matterhow hard things are today, they
may not be as hard tomorrow.
Claude (33:02):
That's so beautiful and I agree.
Just sending a little hearttext saying I know I'm here for
you.
You know you don't have torespond, but if you need me I'm
here.
Gretchen Schoser (33:15):
Yes.
Claude (33:16):
Just from time to time, little hearts.
Gretchen Schoser (33:18):
There's a great Simon Sinek video on
YouTube.
It's called Eight Minutes, yes,and it is one of my favorite
clips ever.
If you ever get reached out toby somebody who is depressed,
give them that eight minutes.
But when you listen, listenwith your ears and not with your
mouth, because a lot of timeswhat we need is just somebody to
(33:38):
listen to us and maybe not giveus any verbal help, because
sometimes those words are evenmore hurtful than the thoughts
that are already going on in ourheads.
Claude (33:48):
I love about that eight minute where one of his friends
reached out and he didn'tunderstand that they needed the
help.
And now they have this code,this code.
I need eight minutes.
That means like help.
I need you to call me.
Gretchen Schoser (34:03):
And that's such a crucial thing and be
fortunate that when people doreach out to you and say I need
eight minutes, give them thoseeight minutes.
You could save a life.
Jess (34:15):
And be appreciative that they thought of you to call for
that too, yeah, for sure.
Something special about thatbond and the trust and ability
to be vulnerable.
So, gretchen, this has beensome really amazing content that
you shared with us.
I do have one final questionfor you what's that one thing
(34:37):
someone can do today to startrewriting their story, no matter
how old they are, or even whatthey've survived or where they
are in their life?
Gretchen Schoser (34:45):
Just start and never give up.
You are the owner of your ownreality and you don't know what
that looks like until you startto open up and figure out what
it is.
But just start and don't giveup on yourself, because the rest
of the world's not going togive up on you either.
Claude (35:03):
So beautiful.
Gretchen, thank you so muchfrom the bottom of our heart.
It was so powerful and reallyit was incredible to really open
up, like you are the statue ofhope and it's so important for
people to understand that andthe importance of mental health.
So thank you so much and to beso vulnerable and sharing your
(35:27):
story with us and our audience.
In the meantime Work Besties Ihope you enjoyed as much as we
did.
You learned so much.
Check up on your Work Besties.
Make sure, on your friends,even your colleagues right, be
nice.
You never know what the otherone is going through, and I
think that is really a biglesson.
(35:48):
We learned even more duringthis podcast.
So, thank you so much and, ifyou loved it, make sure to also
reach out and go listen toGretchen's podcast and follow us
.
Listen to us and subscribe andsee you next week.
Thank you so much.
Gretchen Schoser (36:07):
Thank you so much for having me.
Jess (36:08):
Remember whether you're swapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings or just sending
that perfectly timed meme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
squad.
Claude (36:21):
So keep lifting.
Each other laughing through thechaos, and of course, each
other laughing through the chaosand, of course, thriving.
Jess (36:30):
Until next time, stay positive stay productive and
don't forget to keep supportingeach other.
Work besties.
They say it's never too late to start over, but what
does that really look like?
Today?
We're joined by Gretchen mentalhealth advocate, podcast host
and tech founder, who provesthat resilience doesn't retire.
So, as you listen, ask yourselfwhat story about your life or
your limits are you ready torewrite?
(00:20):
And stay with us to the veryend, because Gretchen will
answer the one thing you can dotoday to start again, no matter
what age, no matter what yousurvive.
Claude (00:30):
Hi.
I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night and
work besties for life.
Jess (00:39):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry.
Work besties.
Gretchen Schoser (00:51):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Claude (00:54):
We are so excited to have you as well.
Thank you so much.
I mean, your biography isincredible and so inspiring.
You have shared your journey asa suicide attempt survivor, and
it is incredible to really sayit out loud right, it's such a
courage.
Can you take us back to amoment that really redefined
(01:18):
what resilience really means toyou and what came next?
Gretchen Schoser (01:23):
Well, for me it was the day after my suicide
attempt.
I'm a true extrovert and anempath, so nobody knew how
depressed I was, not even mywife.
We'd been together 28 years atthat point and I opened up onto
social media and let people knowwhat was going on with me,
because these were people that Iwould show up to work every day
(01:44):
, smiling and making sureeverybody else was laughing
except for me.
And as soon as I did that, Ihad about 200 people reach back
out to me and say thank you,because now they didn't feel so
terrified and alone in their ownjourney.
But they were also terrified,right, because they had no idea
how depressed I was.
If you're an extrovert out thereand you have that mask on, take
(02:06):
it off, because the only personyou end up hurting is yourself.
And so for me, my resiliencewas I started therapy right away
and I just started to put onefoot back in front of another
and dug into therapy and I knewI wanted to live.
There was that small glimmer ofhope that something was going
to get better, and it did, butit came in like an avalanche
(02:27):
form, not in a little trickle.
Claude (02:31):
I love when you say for whoever the extrovert, take off
your mask.
How do you do that?
Do you confide?
Gretchen Schoser (02:40):
to someone.
Yeah, that's one way, like ifyou don't have somebody that you
would call a good friend or aspouse or you didn't feel
comfortable opening up to youknow somebody in your inner
circle.
There are crisis hotlinesacross the world and if you live
in an area other than the US orCanada, you can go out to the
helphubco and that lists out allthe crisis lines across the
(03:05):
world.
At least talk to one person, atleast let somebody know that
you're not okay, because when wesock away all that pain and
that hurt into our belly, wedon't give anybody the
opportunity to help us make itto that next minute, that next
hour, the next day, and it'skind of like vice versa, right?
(03:26):
So if you have, if you're afriend to somebody who's an
extrovert and you're not surehow to dig it out of them, ask
us a question that we actuallyhave to answer.
Don't ask us like, hey, how'sthe day going?
Because my typical response was, oh, I'm living the dream, like
everything's good.
Ask a question hey, how's yourmental health today?
(03:46):
Or check in on them via text.
Everybody loves a good text.
Maybe send a funny meme thatwould drag it out of them to
like laugh, but it works bothways.
So we not only have to open up,but people have to notice signs
, and I think that for me,that's what people missed is
they missed the signs.
Jess (04:04):
I was going to ask you what were some signs that people
did miss with you?
Or now that you've becomeinvolved in it, are you seeing
as signs that are kind of moreuniversal?
Gretchen Schoser (04:14):
Funny you say that.
So I just finished my thirddraft of my book, right?
And if you ever want to learnabout yourself, write a book.
So, like, a few things werelike I started to just check out
.
I didn't want to go to parties,I didn't want to hang out with
people, all I wanted to do wassit in my recliner and color.
I got super disengaged withwork Around.
(04:38):
The same time I had beenoffered an early retirement and
like they had taken away all myduties.
So I was sitting around workfor like eight hours a day doing
nothing.
So if you've ever been in acareer and something that you
really, really love and it'sbeing taken away from you and
then all of a sudden you findout you have nothing to do, it
(04:59):
makes you feel worthless, rightLike so I would like just check
out.
I'd like surf the web all day,doom scrolling stuff that you
shouldn't do.
And then the final thing wasand people should have picked up
on this when we went to NewYork City a couple weeks before
I attempted suicide, I got superdrunk, like super, super drunk,
(05:20):
so uncharacteristic for me.
I got so drunk I lost my cellphone in New York City.
I fell and broke my nose in thehotel room and then had to go
get a brand new thousand dollarphone.
And if you've ever lost yourphone, right despite if you're
drunk or not, it's veryheart-wrenching because I was
(05:40):
thinking to myself I'm not goingto be able to log into work now
because of authentication andall that.
Nobody put two and two together.
They just thought I was havinga good time, but I was slowly.
Claude (05:51):
It was a cry for help.
Gretchen Schoser (05:52):
It was a cry for help that I didn't realize
that I needed At the time.
I was 59 and a half, so in mygeneration we've all been taught
not to talk about our mentalhealth.
Kind of suck it up and movealong your day, and that's
exactly what I did.
I also didn't realize what wasgoing on inside me.
I just wanted to check out.
Claude (06:16):
I was done because a lot had happened between September
and December in 2022.
It is important for us,especially with a friend or
extrovert, to check and reallylook at their mental health,
because they might hide it.
Gretchen Schoser (06:27):
We are masters at it, okay, not a badge of
honor.
When you approach people, justbe kind.
Especially right now, the worldis literally on fire, literally
.
So if you're not sure how, whatsomebody else's mental health
statuses, just be nice.
It costs absolutely nothing tobe nice.
If you don't have anything niceto say, walk away, because that
(06:51):
can really hurt somebody.
Claude (06:53):
We always say right, be nice, because you never know
what someone is going through.
Gretchen Schoser (06:57):
It's so true For me.
I would show up to meetings andbe laughing and smiling and
cracking jokes and helpingeverybody else out.
What I didn't do is I didn'ttake care of me.
And you know how they sayself-love and self-care are the
buzzwords, but they are notbuzzwords.
If you are not taking care ofyourself, there's absolutely no
way you can help anybody else.
Jess (07:18):
Gretchen, I get being extroverted and really trying to
take on that persona at work,but at home that's kind of your
place, right.
So do you still do that?
Were you still doing that there?
Gretchen Schoser (07:31):
To give you a little bit of context of what
happened.
Those couple of months beforeeverything happened, my wife had
shingles and she was down foreight weeks.
So if you've ever been aroundanybody that has shingles, you
know how devastating that is.
During that time I hit andkilled a deer and then I got
(07:53):
catfish.
Thankfully I woke up from thedepression dream long enough to
make sure I didn't end upspending any money.
Then we had a good friend ofours pass away unexpectedly.
My father-in-law passed awaytwo days before Thanksgiving,
throw in some seasonaldepression and some holiday
depression.
So I'm absorbing everybodyelse's pain but still showing up
with a smile on my face everyday because that's what people
(08:13):
needed.
Claude (08:14):
So you were taking care of others instead of really
taking care of yourself that youneeded at this point, or even
someone to take care of you.
Gretchen Schoser (08:22):
you know it was just a whole lot of things
that happened in a really shortperiod of time.
Yeah, that is a lot.
Jess (08:29):
Thank you for sharing all of that.
You're welcome I think there'shelping to just ask those
questions, regardless if you'resomebody close or not, and
helping to tease that out ofsomebody is so important and I
know you've now become veryactive in it in and of yourself.
Would you mind sharing some ofthat and how you became an
advocate?
Gretchen Schoser (08:49):
been friends for like seven years.
Every day, after everythingwent down, we would call each
other and laugh, and we wouldlaugh about things you should
never, ever, ever, ever laughabout.
(09:10):
But here's the thing aboutlaughter it really.
It breaks up your cortisol, itincreases your serotonin, gets
your endorphins going.
So no matter how crappy the daywas going to be, we could
always go back to thatconversation and laugh and we
did Mm-hmm.
We left at stuff that I'm surewe're going to go to hell for.
I'm almost positive.
(09:31):
But like it just helped changethe trajectory of the day.
And so it was during one ofthose phone calls.
It was in the middle of the dayand she was asking me what
somebody was doing.
I was like I don't know and westarted talking about squirrels
and a whole bunch of like crazystuff.
And it was after thatconversation because we had
laughed for like 40 minutes Ihad tears in my eyes.
She's like let's do a podcast.
(09:54):
And I was like, okay, we'll doa podcast.
We thought we would do likethree episodes and be done,
joke's on us.
But we wanted to start a podcastwhere we can normalize how we
talk about mental health Because, like I said, everybody that
knew me was terrified that theydidn't see the signs.
They didn't understand how Icould go from 10 to a zero and
(10:20):
not have anybody know.
Every time we share ourjourneys, we unlock somebody
else's prison, because here inthe United States we have mental
health crises like every singleday.
We don't have theinfrastructure to really help
those that need it.
Some people don't haveinsurance and can't get into
C-therapy.
Some people have devised newtechniques that aren't
sanctioned anyplace else, andthen there's also, like websites
(10:41):
that we even gave out, like twoyears ago, that are no longer
available.
So having people come onto thepodcast and share those insights
and those tips and tricksreally helps people feel seen
and feel heard.
We unlock their prison and nowthey're not so alone in what
they're going through, and sothat was one of the first things
(11:03):
that we did.
I wanted to write a book aboutmy experience.
I just finished my third draft.
I'm super happy with it,getting ready to chug through
and finish it, but I want peopleto see me as a story of hope,
because, even though I was sodepressed and so horribly
checked out, I'm a story of hopebecause I didn't give up and I
(11:27):
refuse to give up.
I refused to stop movingforward because life keeps
throwing these amazingopportunities into my lap and I
keep showing up, and I thinkthat's what part of my
resilience is, that I keepshowing up, but I show up a
little bit different now than Idid back in the day.
The first thing my therapisttaught me was boundaries.
(11:48):
If you have not set boundariesyet, please set your boundaries.
They are life-changing.
The power of no is an amazingfeeling.
And then the other thing theytaught me is how to put my
shields up, because I am anempath.
So instead of being everybody'scome and suck the life out of
me, now I get to pick and choosewho gets to suck the life out
of me, and that's reallyimportant for everybody.
(12:12):
Even if you're not an empath,learn when to put up your
shields, because you need toreflect some of that energy back
on yourself and take care ofyour inner child.
I also figured out it's okay toplay.
I'm going to be 62 next month.
I still play.
Playing is good.
It's good for my heart.
It's good to play.
I am going to be 62 next month.
I still play.
Playing is good.
It's good for my heart.
It's good for my soul.
Those three things reallyhelped push me through and my
(12:37):
co-host, dirty Skittles.
We are still the best offriends.
I still call her every morning,we laugh about things she
should never, ever, ever laughabout.
And what's hard is like shestill works.
Works there and I have sinceopened up my own company, so my
free time is a little bit morethan what hers is, but I still
can make her laugh and I thinkthat's crucial.
Claude (12:57):
Definitely.
You just say in the samesentence next month is I'm 62
and I just opened my own company.
Can you a bit like let us knowa bit about that, Because a lot
of times we think 62, that's it,I'm retired.
So it's really having newbeginning and it's never too
late.
Gretchen Schoser (13:16):
It's never too late.
So here's what happened.
After I retired, I got reallybored and decided to go work for
a small consulting firm, andthat's exactly what I wanted.
I didn't want to go back to abig business.
I didn't want to work for 8million people, so I wouldn't
work for this company for untilNovember of last year.
And then in November that smallconsulting firm got picked up
(13:38):
by, or acquired by, one of thetop five consulting firms and
immediately I was like no, thisis not going to happen.
We would be on camera and Iwould just have resting bitch
face.
I couldn't make it go away.
Right?
People are like you need tocome off your camera.
And I'm like I'm going to comeoff the camera and I'm going to
come back on.
It's going to be the same face.
And I had gotten to the pointwhere I wasn't going to
(13:59):
compromise anymore.
I wanted to do the things thatmade me happy and this time,
when I got depressed, everybodyknew I got in and hide it.
I let everybody know around methat I was checked out and, like
everybody, rallied around me.
It was an amazing feeling.
We had gotten a couple ofsponsors for the podcast, but
this big consulting firm thatwas taking us over.
(14:21):
They had like an independentclause, and so what that meant
is that we couldn't do businesswith these sponsors because that
company had done audits withthem.
And I was like, well, this isnot going to work for me,
because if it was just me, I'dbe like, oh okay.
But you know what?
I had a co-host to think about,and then I'd had a couple of
people approach me about my bookand I really wanted to finish
(14:43):
my book, and so I was likehemming and hawing about, like I
just want to quit.
I just wanted to quit.
So like I didn't want to bringit up to my wife because like a
few other things were going on.
We celebrated our 30thanniversary a couple months ago,
we were trying to plan a cooltrip, so like I didn't want to
broach the subject.
But we're in New York City forChristmas and we were at dinner
(15:06):
and she's like, hey, I know youreally hate your job.
You can quit.
If you've ever felt like aweighted x-ray blanket, come off
your shoulders.
It was the best feeling in theworld, but I still wanted to
work.
So we're flying home on the22nd of December.
I forgot how long it takes tothe isoplane, it takes like a
couple hours, which was perfectfor me.
(15:28):
So I had my phone and I had myresume on my phone and I had
ChatGPT.
And I'm like so I fed my resumeinto ChatGPT, I said, based on
my 45 years in corporate Americaand everything I've done with
the podcast, help me form anindependent consulting firm.
Two minutes later it spit outpretty much everything I wanted
to do, except for like the lasttwo thirds no-transcript to work
(15:57):
.
On January 2nd I turned in mytwo weeks and people were like
shocked.
Honestly, remember my face?
Remember the face?
Do you not know how to read theroom?
And so, like it was likeanother moment of like where the
you know the weight just gotlifted off of me.
And so I, that same day, Iopened up my company and formed
(16:19):
my LLC.
And on December, on January 22ndof this year, um went ahead and
um opened my company for realand I just did it.
And people are like, how didyou do that?
Aren't you ready to check out?
And I'm like no, because Istill have so much to offer the
world and I'm truly a subjectmatter expert in my technical
(16:40):
field and I have a lot ofpassion around the wellness
field Because now more than ever, people need to feel like it's
okay to talk about their mentalhealth, not to be ashamed to
talk about your mental healthand to be okay with your mental
messiness.
I'm going to tell you, 98% ofthe people out there have some
(17:03):
mental messiness going on andthey may not want to talk about
it, but the more we talk aboutit, the less stigma there is
Totally, and it helps morepeople too, right, yeah?
Claude (17:12):
And I know someone that you know know that should go to
therapy but doesn't want becauseagain, older generation, et
cetera.
And I'm like look, if you havea headache or you have the
measles, you go and see a doctor, right.
Why is the same thing?
You know mental health is thesame thing.
You go and see you have a need.
You go and see a doctor, right.
(17:33):
Why is the same thing?
You know mental health is thesame thing.
You go and see you have a need,you go and see someone.
There's nothing to shame aboutit, it's funny.
Gretchen Schoser (17:36):
I had to speed date my therapist, and that's a
term that Dirty Skittles cameup with.
I had to go through threetherapists before I found the
one that worked.
And, you know, person-to-persontherapy may not work for
everybody, which is cool,because there's 80,000 different
types of therapies out therethat will work for you.
I also dabble in a little bitof art therapy.
(17:58):
I, you know, do tapping, I donature as therapy when it's not
super cold or super hot outside,and I practice gratitude every
day, like I will tell everybodyI am so grateful to be alive
every single day.
Claude (18:20):
Yeah, it goes back again of your message of hope that
you're like really the hope.
Gretchen Schoser (18:23):
It wasn't easy .
I shed a lot of tears, I lost alot of friends because they
don't like the new me.
But you know what?
I am not everybody's Mattanymore.
Yeah right, I am my own Matt.
So if mama's not happy,nobody's happy.
Jess (18:38):
Right, right, and they weren't obviously providing back
to you.
So if they wanted to leave,that's probably the best.
Hey, you know what.
Gretchen Schoser (18:43):
I leave the door open, always a smidge, if
they want to come back in.
Jess (18:50):
I don't completely shut the door Going along the lines
of the reinvention and youstarting your business which
congratulations, knowing thatyou did do this later in life.
What do you want other people,especially kind of those women
that are in that same age or anyadults in the same age range,
to know about starting over?
Gretchen Schoser (19:05):
Just do it.
Don't be afraid to start over,don't?
It's not the first time Ireinvented myself.
It's the biggest time Ireinvented myself.
Don't be afraid to do it,because you're never going to
know if it's going to work outunless you try it.
I did write out my pros andcons list.
You know I had a lot more prosthan I had cons.
For the first time in my life Idon't have health insurance.
(19:27):
I can't justify the cost.
I'm pretty careful about walkingoutside because here's what
happens when you turn 60 pluslike things don't heal like they
used to, so you have to beextra careful.
But be adventurous.
Go find your joy.
You know there's so many peopleout there in their twenties and
thirties and forties that areout there chasing the money and
(19:47):
chasing the dream.
Don't chase any of that.
Go chase your happiness,because at the end of the day,
that's what's going to get youexcited, to get up every morning
.
That's what's going to get youexcited about working 10-hour
days and not even realize thatyou're working 10-hour days.
I do that a lot now.
Find your passion.
Go with lead, with your heart,because there's so many
(20:08):
different things you can do outthere in the world today that
you don't need to work for acompany to do it.
You can work for yourself andstill find the same joy, and
that's what I do.
Every day.
I find a different joy insomething I'm doing.
Claude (20:22):
And what do you want other people, especially women
and older people you know toknow about?
Gretchen Schoser (20:29):
starting over.
Don't be afraid, because youcan be a tiny bit afraid, but
don't let fear hold you back.
You know you've had all theseyears of doing life, living life
.
You've lived experiences.
Lived experiences are huge,right.
It's so much better than havinga college degree in something.
If you walk into a company andsay, I've had these lived
(20:51):
experiences, or if you createyour own company based on your
lived experiences, it'sauthentically yours.
Nobody gets to steal that fromyou.
Okay, the same thing goes fortherapy.
How are you know it's not goingto work?
If you don't try, at least try.
Right, if it fails, it fails,but at least you tried, and
(21:11):
that's always been my why.
If it doesn't work out, I canalways try again.
But that's what life is about.
It's like finding those thingsin your life that bring you joy
and that service your purposeand, I don't know, makes you get
up and smile in the morning.
I smile more now than I have in20 years, and my wife even said
that.
She said that's the happiestshe's seen me in 20 years,
(21:32):
because I get to do this on myown.
I'm not working for the man.
I get to decide who I want towork with, when I want to work
Like yesterday.
I took a three-hour nap.
It was perfect.
You know.
I turned to the boss.
I, perfect.
I turned to the boss.
I'm like, hey, can we take athree-hour nap?
And the boss said sure, and soI did it.
Sure, go ahead, but don't beafraid.
Just get out there and makethat list of things that you
(21:55):
maybe have dabbled in in earlieryears.
Go back and put some focus onthat.
There's so many ways to makemoney now.
But when you're making it,you're also smiling, Because how
many other times have you goneto a corporate job and you sit
in your chair and you're likeGod, is it five o'clock yet?
And it's like two minutes aftereight.
Yeah, we've all been there.
Claude (22:16):
Yes, or is it Friday yet and it's only Monday?
Jess (22:20):
Yeah, gretchen you mentioned about your podcasting.
It sounds like you gotsponsorships from that too, so
you are making some money off ofthat as well.
Gretchen Schoser (22:28):
Crazy.
Thing.
Jess (22:30):
It's amazing.
We know the challenges andhustle that it takes for
podcasting, so we commend you onthat.
You kind of explained whatinspired the podcast.
Gretchen Schoser (22:48):
But I'm curious what's been some of the
most surprising elements ofhaving that podcast that's
helped you with your healingprocess?
Wow, what a great question soearly on in the podcast.
It was just Dirty Skittles andI and we started bringing on
guests and as we brought onthose guests, we got to heal
along with our guests.
You know, most people that wehad talked to up until that
point had shared their storywith us over a microphone but
(23:11):
had never shared it with anybodyface-to-face, and so you know
like I felt honored that theywould come onto our show and
talk to us about their mentalhealth journey and things like
that, and we're very willing tolike share their resources and
really wanted to get the messageout there that there is help.
You can still put one foot infront of the other.
(23:33):
But we had a guest and she wasby far one of my favorite guests
.
It was our friend Bookie, alsoknown as Liz, and she had
end-stage breast cancer,terminal breast cancer, and when
she came on, her episode wasthe most life-altering podcast
I'd ever listened to, justbecause of her whole outlook
(23:55):
about life.
She didn't have a bucket list,she lived every moment to its
fullest.
She made sure that her kids andher family were taken care of.
For us, you know, we went andgot our wills done and took care
of all that.
It was just her outlook on life.
And she passed away a monthafter we our episode aired and
(24:17):
it was heartbreaking, but Istill refer back to that episode
because of everything that shetaught me.
Jess (24:23):
It's touching, that's amazing.
Wow, that's heavy.
I mean, yeah, it's heavy, butit's kind of uplifting at the
same time too.
Gretchen Schoser (24:33):
It's heavy and we do talk about a lot of heavy
, heavy topics on the podcast werecord one Saturday a month and
we record five to eightepisodes one Saturday a month
and because I'm in charge of thecalendar, I get to make sure
that it's not a bunch of heavytopics all on one Saturday
because we have to go take careof our own mental health.
It's super therapeutic for bothof us.
(24:55):
We call it our free therapy andyou know we always inject some
type of laughter into ourepisodes, even though we talk
about some really heavy topics,because once again we go back to
laughter.
Laughter is a natural healerand it just really breaks up.
You know that hard stuff andyou know makes it feel real.
Claude (25:15):
And for our listener, can you share the name of your
podcast?
Gretchen Schoser (25:19):
I sure can.
So the name of our podcast isShit that Goes On In Our Heads,
and when you look it up it's gotan exclamation point for the
eye because apparently shit isstill a bad word.
Don't understand why Stilltrying to figure that out, and
we are on every platform outthere and how fun.
Claude (25:37):
Do you have Dozie Drops?
Gretchen Schoser (25:39):
So right now we are dropping one episode a
week on Tuesdays.
Starting mid-July we are goingto drop two episodes a week.
That's a lot.
We have a huge backlog and Ifeel bad for our guests.
And the other thing with us iswe're fully booked with guests
until June of 2026.
Jess (26:00):
Congratulations.
Gretchen Schoser (26:02):
It's insane.
Jess (26:03):
Yeah, it's crazy.
That's amazing, though.
Congratulations.
That's a good sign good signthat you'll continue to share
those stories.
Gretchen Schoser (26:12):
My little nuggets, the little nuggets that
are out there Like, but for us,for me, like it's not work.
It's my passion project and youknow, my wife would always say
to me she's like I've never seenyou work so hard on something
you don't get paid for.
Well joke on her because we nowdo get paid, but like it has
nothing to do with the moneybecause the mission was never
(26:33):
around making money for us.
It's about sharing thesestories and these journeys and
helping the world heal.
Jess (26:40):
Why do you believe that storytelling is so therapeutic
for the mental health recovery?
Gretchen Schoser (26:46):
I think that people, like even with when I
was, you know, sitting upwaiting to like take my life is
that we feel so alone andterrified and sometimes we don't
know how to open up.
For me, I didn't know how to, Icouldn't find my voice and I
couldn't find my footing becauseI didn't understand what was
going on inside of my head.
By us sharing our stories, onelittle thing that we say may
(27:09):
unlock something in somebodyelse's head.
Being like this is exactly howI'm feeling and I can see how
they were able to get from pointA to point B.
Maybe, since it worked for them, it'll work for me.
We have listeners from all overthe world and in some cases,
they may not know how to reachout to a crisis hotline, so we
want to make sure that peoplehave those resources.
(27:31):
They may not have a closefriend that lives nearby, so
they don't know who to open upto.
That's why you can contact acrisis line Because, like with
the 988 crisis line here in theUS and Canada, it's not just for
suicide ideation, it's for anytype of crisis, and those
numbers are free and anonymous.
And, you know, the lady thatpicked up the phone the day I
(27:53):
called was the mostcompassionate lady I'd ever
spoken to.
So getting that information outto our listeners, letting them
know it's okay to open up, evenat 59 and a half, even at 62,
it's okay to open up Like we arenot we are not perfect humans
right?
We all have messiness in ourlife that we don't know how to
(28:15):
deal with, and the nice thingabout podcasts is that they are
not geographical based.
We don't have any boundaries.
We are listened to all over theworld, just like you guys are.
What may have worked for mehere in the US may work for
somebody in Germany, and that'swhy I think it's so important
that we keep sharing our stories.
We keep getting the message outthere that it's okay to talk
(28:38):
about your mental health andthat there should be no shame
and you're not weak, asking forhelp.
Claude (28:43):
I really see this community that help each other
and really take away the wholetaboo about mental health.
I mean, it is a huge withoutborder community.
Gretchen Schoser (28:54):
I've seen a huge shift, even in the last two
years, especially on LinkedIn.
You know companies are reallystarting to tune in and if you
ever wonder why you're notmaking your bottom line, I don't
know, maybe check in on youremployees and make sure that
their mental health is okay.
They are a key factor to youbeing successful.
Jess (29:14):
That's probably one that most companies are not even
thinking of at all.
Gretchen Schoser (29:17):
Not now, but that's part of my company's
mission is to give themresources that can help them
think about that that can helpthem think about that.
Claude (29:30):
A lot of companies start to see that and start to give
resources like women's resources, mental health resources, even
sometimes having some classesduring the day about burnout,
stress and etc.
It's starting.
Still a lot of improvement areneeded, but I think that,
especially since COVID, itreally triggered the whole
(29:50):
message of mental health 100%.
Gretchen Schoser (29:53):
I will tell you that during COVID I felt
like I was in prison as anextrovert, you know.
I couldn't talk to people, Icouldn't touch people, I
couldn't go outside For me.
I still had a job to go toevery day and had things to do.
But I can't imagine somebodythat was stuck at home with
somebody that they didn't reallylove or were in an abusive
(30:15):
situation and how that reallyaffected their mental health.
And thankfully now people aregetting super in tune with their
own feelings and opening upabout it and not feeling shame,
especially men.
It's okay to ask for help.
There is absolutely zero shameand if people are shaming you,
(30:37):
then shame on them.
You know, what?
Maybe like turn around and lookat the mirror.
Claude (30:41):
And I think it's.
On the contrary, it's astrength right To be able to
open up.
On the contrary, it's astrength right to be able to
open up.
It's you really need to bestrong to be able to do that.
Gretchen Schoser (30:53):
And you have to be super vulnerable.
I hope my voice and my storyhelps somebody make it through
the next day or the next week orthe next month.
It's never too late to startover.
There's no shame in asking forhelp and find your joy.
That's what I do Every morning.
I start with a 20-minute funnyvideo.
It's cats and goats.
Lately I don't know what'swrong with me, maybe a few
(31:16):
raccoons thrown in there.
But I also end that with whatI'm grateful for, and I've done
that every day since January20th and it's really helped my
mental health.
Jess (31:25):
I get up and do affirmations, but I feel like
that's still in my mind whatkeeps me from sanity.
But maybe I'll switch it up tosome cat and goat video.
Gretchen Schoser (31:35):
Maybe throw in a few baby raccoon videos,
because you know they're cuteand funny.
Jess (31:41):
They are cute.
They look like little burglars.
They are, they're littlehamburglars.
I feel like your littlesynopsis right there was almost
like the ending to a podcastright there.
That was fantastic.
I do think those are threemantras that everybody should be
thinking about every day andincorporating into their life
for sure.
(32:01):
So what's one belief aboutmental health, age or resilience
you wish more people wouldchallenge?
Gretchen Schoser (32:14):
It's never too late to start over.
Not at all.
You can start small, right?
Maybe don't just up and quityour job, but start small.
Start thinking about thosethings that you did back in your
20s and 30s that made you happy, and figure out ways that you
can take that and turn it into apassion project.
Go from that passion projectand think about how you can help
somebody with their mentalhealth struggles.
Part of that is being kind.
(32:36):
You have no idea what a kindstatement is to somebody who's
really struggling.
Even the same thing with a text.
Just send them a funny text ifyou can get them out of their
head.
But make sure that you'resincere in what your intentions
are and know that you are lovedand you are wanted and needed in
(32:57):
this world and that, no matterhow hard things are today, they
may not be as hard tomorrow.
Claude (33:02):
That's so beautiful and I agree.
Just sending a little hearttext saying I know I'm here for
you.
You know you don't have torespond, but if you need me I'm
here.
Gretchen Schoser (33:15):
Yes.
Claude (33:16):
Just from time to time, little hearts.
Gretchen Schoser (33:18):
There's a great Simon Sinek video on
YouTube.
It's called Eight Minutes, yes,and it is one of my favorite
clips ever.
If you ever get reached out toby somebody who is depressed,
give them that eight minutes.
But when you listen, listenwith your ears and not with your
mouth, because a lot of timeswhat we need is just somebody to
(33:38):
listen to us and maybe not giveus any verbal help, because
sometimes those words are evenmore hurtful than the thoughts
that are already going on in ourheads.
Claude (33:48):
I love about that eight minute where one of his friends
reached out and he didn'tunderstand that they needed the
help.
And now they have this code,this code.
I need eight minutes.
That means like help.
I need you to call me.
Gretchen Schoser (34:03):
And that's such a crucial thing and be
fortunate that when people doreach out to you and say I need
eight minutes, give them thoseeight minutes.
You could save a life.
Jess (34:15):
And be appreciative that they thought of you to call for
that too, yeah, for sure.
Something special about thatbond and the trust and ability
to be vulnerable.
So, gretchen, this has beensome really amazing content that
you shared with us.
I do have one final questionfor you what's that one thing
(34:37):
someone can do today to startrewriting their story, no matter
how old they are, or even whatthey've survived or where they
are in their life?
Gretchen Schoser (34:45):
Just start and never give up.
You are the owner of your ownreality and you don't know what
that looks like until you startto open up and figure out what
it is.
But just start and don't giveup on yourself, because the rest
of the world's not going togive up on you either.
Claude (35:03):
So beautiful.
Gretchen, thank you so muchfrom the bottom of our heart.
It was so powerful and reallyit was incredible to really open
up, like you are the statue ofhope and it's so important for
people to understand that andthe importance of mental health.
So thank you so much and to beso vulnerable and sharing your
(35:27):
story with us and our audience.
In the meantime Work Besties Ihope you enjoyed as much as we
did.
You learned so much.
Check up on your Work Besties.
Make sure, on your friends,even your colleagues right, be
nice.
You never know what the otherone is going through, and I
think that is really a biglesson.
(35:48):
We learned even more duringthis podcast.
So, thank you so much and, ifyou loved it, make sure to also
reach out and go listen toGretchen's podcast and follow us
.
Listen to us and subscribe andsee you next week.
Thank you so much.
Gretchen Schoser (36:07):
Thank you so much for having me.
Jess (36:08):
Remember whether you're swapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings or just sending
that perfectly timed meme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
squad.
Claude (36:21):
So keep lifting.
Each other laughing through thechaos, and of course, each
other laughing through the chaosand, of course, thriving.
Jess (36:30):
Until next time, stay positive stay productive and
don't forget to keep supportingeach other.
Work besties.
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