May 5, 2025 • 36 mins
What happens when your career takes an unexpected pivot—from high-powered agent to published author—and your work friendships evolve into personal lifelines?
In this episode, Jess and Claude dive deep with Clélia Castro-Malaspina, a former literary agent turned award-winning children’s author, who’s rewriting the rules of connection, creativity, and career.
💬 We talk:
- How critique groups can save your sanity—and your story
- What coffee shops and connection have in common
- Why keeping work friendships alive can launch your next chapter
- And how to build meaningful support networks in remote or creative careers
Clélia also opens up about her powerful new book, Girls with Goals: How Women’s Soccer Took Over the World—a fierce, inspiring history of the women who kicked down barriers, built a global movement, and lit the way for future generations of female athletes. 🌍⚽
Whether you're chasing a dream, changing careers, or cheering from the sidelines—this episode is for you.
🎧 Plus: Learn how her first book, Your Freedom, Your Power, teaches kids the First Amendment like never before—one protest sign at a time. 🗽📚
📅 Girls with Goals hits shelves May 6th in the U.S. and May 8th in the UK—published by Holler, an imprint of Quarto.
📚 Your Freedom, Your Power is out now from Running Press Kids.
🔗 Connect with Clélia:
Website: https://mossypinescreative.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mossypinesclelia/
✨ Come for the book talk, stay for the inspiration—and maybe the goosebumps.
🎙️ Listen now on all platforms or watch the full conversation on YouTube.
You can watch the full episode on Youtube
Follow us on IG , TikTok, Threads and LinkedIn
Please rate, comment and provide suggestions for upcoming episodes
Work Besties! Theme Song Written by Ralph Lentini @therallyband
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jess (00:00):
What happens when your work bestie becomes your life
partner, and how do you find newwork besties when you step away
from that corporate life andmove into entrepreneurship?
Well, today's guest, cleliaCastro Malaspino, has navigated
these transitions, and more so.
She was a former literary agentand she's turned to an
(00:20):
entrepreneur, and Clelia nowruns her own editorial and
consulting company called MossyPines Creative and is the author
of an upcoming book that we'resuper excited to preview and
talk about.
Stay tuned, because Clelia isgoing to drop some really
powerful insights on findingconnections in every stage of
life.
Claude (00:40):
Hi, I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night and
work besties for life.
Jess (00:49):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry.
Claude (01:01):
Welcome, Clelia.
So happy to have you here.
Please introduce yourself tothe audience.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (01:07):
Yes , I'm Clelia Castro Malaspina.
I'm so excited to be here.
Thank you.
I am a former literary agent.
I work in the children's bookindustry, but now I am a
freelance editor, a consultantand an author.
Do you ever sleep?
Well, you know, I'm a mother ofa three-year-old, so the answer
to that is no, no.
Jess (01:25):
That's how you do it all.
Now I get it.
Yes.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (01:28):
You know, adrenaline takes you
pretty far in life.
Jess (01:31):
It really does, especially during those ages.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (01:35):
For sure.
Jess (01:36):
So, clelia, you've got a lot for us to chat about.
One of the things that I thinkis kind of unique, that you
don't hear often, is how one ofyour original or early on work
besties has now become your lifepart.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (01:50):
That is true.
Jess (01:52):
Would you mind sharing about that?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (01:54):
So my husband, mike, and I, we met
.
So before I was a literaryagent, I was actually a lawyer.
I've had many chapters in lifebut I was a lawyer for a few
years.
That I didn't last very long.
But my husband I actually metfirst as interns at the law firm
we eventually both worked at.
So we were law students and weboth happened to go to law
(02:15):
school in DC.
The firm was in New York andthen we worked together in New
York the first two years of ourlegal careers the only two years
of my legal career and then we,you know, we hit it off right
away.
Actually we were friends,definitely friends first.
We were both dating otherpeople, sort of not interested
in each other in that way, butwe really just hit it off right
(02:36):
away.
I first met him in Union Station, which is in DC, waiting for
the train to go to Philadelphiafor the like kickoff summer
intern work event.
It was like in March of oursecond year of law school and I
was kind of looking around forsomeone who looked about my age
and a suit like maybe looked lawfor me, and so I went up to
this guy who's like hey, are youhere for the thing.
(02:57):
And he was like, yeah, and sowe, we stood next to each other,
we sat next to each other onthe train and we just started
yapping.
We had really similar sense ofhumor and I was like, okay, this
guy you know he's funny, thisis good.
I was kind of nervous.
It was my first real job and Iwas like this is going to be
okay.
And then that summer came aroundand we were kind of like
(03:18):
buddies the whole time.
We always sat next to eachother on the bus, sat next to
each other on the bus.
I'd go to his office to chat,we'd kind of like put our heads
together on projects and stufflike that.
There was a lot of events.
We were hung out at events.
A lot Just thought each otherwere funny.
We both were reading.
The last Harry Potter came outthat summer and there are all
these serious lawyers in NewYork and then I remember we were
(03:39):
the only two who were sort ofjust like in our offices
pretending to work but just likefuriously reading the last
Harry Potter and then talkingabout it.
So that was a good sign.
And then when we ended upworking together for real about
a year later after we'd takenthe bar exam and all that.
I kind of realized.
Well, maybe, like we're suchgood friends for a reason, mike
(04:00):
was definitely sort of like mybud, my main bud, and then it
blossomed.
Jess (04:04):
Yeah, so do you think that working together had
strengthened that bond?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (04:09):
For sure.
I mean especially so.
We were a summer associates andfirst year, second year
associates in New York City in acorporate law firm in 2008 and
2009, when it was like a crazytime to be in that situation and
it's a kind of notoriouslydifficult environment and so
you're kind of like in thetrenches together.
(04:29):
It's like we would be at theoffice till like 10 pm,
sometimes midnight, and justhaving a bud there.
Who understood what was what?
was going on and to someone whocould always make you laugh,
even if, like people were beingmean to you, stress was high and
you had a million things to do.
Claude (04:46):
It was it was great having that go-to person and did
you become an item during that,uh, that time, or?
Clelia Castro-Malasp (04:55):
afterwards oh no, we certainly did.
It was like this big secret.
For a while, though it was kindof annoying.
Everyone was like yeah, we knewyou guys would get together,
which was like such an annoyingcomment, because that for a long
time I was like no, he's justmy friend, he's just my friend,
he's just my friend.
But then everyone else wasright, I guess, and I was yeah,
(05:16):
they saw the connection as well.
Yes, yeah, I mean, I guess therewas definitely like obvious
sparks, but I thought it waslike no, we just have the same
sense of humor, but it was morethan that.
I was wrong.
Jess (05:26):
So you two then became together and then you left and
created a whole nother pivotyeah.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (05:32):
So I totally pivoted.
Well, actually there is someoverlap.
I'd say I left my legal career.
I'd say I left my career as alawyer but as a literary agent,
and I did that for about nineyears.
There is this whole contractnegotiation element of it.
I did that for about nine years.
There is this whole contractnegotiation element of it.
But basically, for those whodon't know what a literary agent
does, is they representcreators, writers and
illustrators too in my industryfor children's books and you
(05:55):
basically work with them todevelop their work and then you
pitch it to publishers hoping tosell their work, and when you
sell them you negotiate theircontracts and then you also kind
of manage their career fromthen on in.
So it's definitely like amulti-faceted job.
It was a cool job.
It was a big, big, big pivotbecause I worked from this like
big international law firm.
You know where we'd have virtualmeetings with the Hong Kong
(06:16):
office and there'd be like work,happy hours and Christmas
parties and and weekly groupmeetings, monthly firm meetings
to like a company.
At first it was just me and oneother woman and then it grew to
three and then it grew to fourwhen I was there and it was
based in Seattle but like mostlyremote, and so that was like a
totally big pivot and I wouldsay, for the most part I like
(06:39):
that pivot.
But one of the biggestchallenges was that I am, like
inherently a very social person.
I you know, when I was at thefirm I had a lot of friends like
hung out.
I was happy to sit at the lunchtable to chat.
Going to people's office tovisit, went to the happy hours,
went to the events always gamefor that sort of stuff and to
(07:01):
day I still remain good friendswith some people I worked with
15 years ago there.
So going to this situationwhere Hybrid or a remote
situation.
Jess (07:12):
Yeah, it was how did you navigate getting that kind of
social connection still?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (07:17):
I pretty much figured out that
that was going to be a challengefor me right away.
And so to me it was like how canI figure out ways to get that
socialization and a job that'slike not by design super social?
And so I came up with kind oflike a plan that ended up
working out and then later on,when I started my own business
it's a business of one I wasable to employ that too and and
(07:41):
it's continue, continue that.
So basically in a couple ways,right.
So first I did work with a fewwomen, and we're all generally
in the same area, and so, eventhough we worked remotely, we
would meet up periodically tohave like a group lunch,
whatever One of the women wholived near me.
We would meet up periodicallyat like a coffee shop, just to
like have someone to sit next toand chat with and do work next
(08:03):
to.
For a while I also made sure tojust like every month I had to
like go meet someone in person,so like people in your industry.
So to me there were publishingis a small industry in Seattle,
which is where I live, but weall know each other, right and
so, and most of us work byourselves at home, remotely, so
(08:25):
it's an easy, yes, to getsomeone to come have coffee with
you, come have lunch with youbecause they're also sort of
happy to see someone.
Sort of like, every month Ihave to make a coffee or lunch
date with someone and I considerit networking, right, even if
it's just a social call, butit's someone in your industry.
You definitely always talkabout industry stuff, so it's a
networking thing.
I also join groups that areassociated with my industry.
(08:47):
So in the children's book worldthere's this awesome
organization called the Societyof Children's Books, writers and
Illustrators, which is creatorswho live in the area get
together.
It's a national organizationbut it has local branches and
this branch, you know, iswonderful, the Western
Washington branch.
They have events and meetupsand stuff, and the people are
all like-minded, have the sameinterests, the same
(09:09):
appreciations in life.
So it's great to meet peoplethat way.
The other thing I do so I can'tlike work at the same desk like
every day, right, I need to likechange it up.
So I have my coffee shops that Ilike, that I base on vibes,
right, if they're good vibes,you get to be one of my regular
shop coffee shops.
And sometimes you see the samepeople over and over again and
(09:32):
so a few years into me workingremotely, I'd seen the same
people so I was like you knowwhat, I'm just gonna talk to
these people and just like sayhi, it'll be awkward, but like,
and in the end you kind of havelike your coffee shop buddies,
yeah, you know, and sometimesyou'll like lock eyes across the
shop when something funnyhappens, or you know what I mean
or chat like a complicatedorder comes in and you're like
(09:56):
yeah, so maybe you know I'm adesperate woman and just to make
it, you know what it's likeit's probably like when you were
in the corporate environment asyour lawyer you still had to
work with the accounting team,or you had to work the it team
and you still have thoseconnections, even though you
don't really see your work, soit's not like work besties, but
(10:19):
coffee besties.
Claude (10:20):
So did you yeah?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (10:21):
sure ?
Well, I mean, we're just inthere doing work.
It's our alternative workplace,I guess, but it's funny.
You do like see the same peopleover and over again.
And what's funny?
Now, in my new job we alsomoved to a suburb of Seattle so
I had to find a whole newonslaught of good vibes coffee
shops.
But one of them randomly endedup being like this place where
(10:42):
other kid books creators go to.
I did not know, but like I wasthere a couple times I'd be like
I'd be like rob kevin ellie,like it has become.
This place for whatever reasonattracts that type of people so
that one's great to go tobecause you might just run into
someone who you actually workwith yeah, so that was cool.
(11:04):
Yeah, and then the last thing Iwant to say, which I'm most
proud of, is that you kind oflike make your own group.
In my author life, I reallywanted to have the benefit of
other writers looking at my work, critiquing my work.
Critique groups are common withwriters and it's just you kind
of like I'll put your headstogether, read your stuff, give
each other feedback Cheerleadingis great so I didn't have that,
(11:28):
and so I put out a call for onethrough this organization,
scbwi, and was able to get agroup of five writers together
that we meet in person everyWednesday morning, the same
coffee shop for two hours.
I fully consider this a part ofmy job, but in the best
possible way, and it has becomesuch a absolute wonderful part
of my life and my week, andthese people were just like each
(11:51):
other's cheerleaders.
Our work has gotten betterbecause of the time we spent
together and we're just alsohappy to have this group, and it
was something that I came outof my need to have more work
friends.
Claude (12:03):
That's incredible, that is a great you know insight and
for people that are the same,you know working for their, for
their own, to go, so to do thisgroup to build their own group.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (12:15):
Yeah , I mean, I think, like you'll
find that people like spendingtime with people.
I think it's like literallyscience of happiness, like
having interactions, personalinteractions with other people
like gives you joy.
Even if it's like a mediuminteraction, it's better than
being alone.
So I think people would bereally receptive and maybe are
(12:36):
too shy or don't know how orwhatever.
So if you go out there and tryand create something like people
will come.
Jess (12:41):
You know, and it's a really eclectic group thing like
people will come, you know, andit's a really eclectic group.
Yeah, over time you probablybuild that trust.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (12:48):
So now you share more, maybe not
even just the work related, butthe personal stuff too, that's
for sure, yes, and it's like wehave a baby boomer, gen x, three
millennials, like coming fromthe east side, the west side.
It's like it's a good group,that's a good hat A lot of
diversity.
Claude (13:06):
That is great because we always say also with World
Besties.
A lot of times you have thisinter-generation friendship.
So we need to have a generationof millennials.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (13:19):
Yeah , and I feel like work is a
special place where you canactually have those
intergenerational relationships,even though I had to sort of
like make it on my own, like itis related to my work and part
of my job.
Jess (13:32):
Well, it's related to your work.
It's helping for all of you,I'm sure.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (13:35):
For sure.
Jess (13:36):
But it's also probably a really good, almost like the
equivalent of meditation, whereyou take that step back and
appreciate what you're doing,because you have these other
people to discuss it with.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (13:47):
Yeah , no, a hundred percent.
It's just like and we're alllike trusted people in each
other's lives.
Now, writing is inherently sucha personal activity right.
And so every week we're sharingreally personal stuff and, you
know, helping each other make itbetter.
There's so much frustrationthat comes with being an
aspiring writer or aspiringauthor, and so you know, getting
(14:09):
out those frustrations, comingup with strategies, tactics,
sharing information, stuff likethat.
It's just been really wonderful.
And you know, I've been in theindustry for a long time, but
some of the others haven't, andso but I think I feel like I've
taken something from all of them.
Like I feel like I probablythink I can give a lot, but I
feel like I've gotten from everysingle one of them and it's
(14:31):
been just a really positiveexperience.
Jess (14:33):
It's amazing, you're all giving as much as you're taking.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (14:35):
Yeah , for sure, and we're all taking
.
We're all taking yeah.
Jess (14:38):
But that's the whole point of a relationship like that,
and work besties in general ismeant to do that.
It's the person that's going tochallenge you but also applaud
you, so it's a good For sure,for sure, and like the nature of
a critique group literally hasthe word critique inside of it,
so there's some challenging.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (14:58):
You know of it being like this
isn't good and here's why.
Claude (15:02):
But, like said, nicely Right right, but that's what is
important.
Yeah, that's what is importantwhen you trust again, I'm going
back to the same jess, you know,but the trust right, when you
trust someone and you trusttheir point of view I would
think at least I know in.
Jess (15:18):
even in my industry, when I ask for critiques on some
stuff, I take the feedback morereadily from people that they
know how to do it too, because Ifeel like the experience adds
another layer to it as well.
But, yes, you also need tobuild that trust too, which is,
it sounds like you guys did.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (15:36):
Yeah , no for sure, and it's now.
The group's been in existencefor almost two years, so
everyone's safe.
Jess (15:43):
That's awesome, because you threw that out.
Claude (15:45):
there Are you thinking even to bring more people, or
it's just that this is you, westarted as a five and then we
brought in a six.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (15:57):
We have six members.
Claude (15:59):
Six now.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (16:00):
She was a wonderful ad.
I remember everyone was alittle nervous at first, yeah,
yeah, because we had a greatthing going right, but then it
was good and also not everyonecan come every week, so it's
good to have.
You're pretty much guaranteedto have like three seats filled,
which makes for a good critiquesession.
(16:21):
That's good, I would say.
We are still open to otherpeople, but we also meet in the
middle of the week, during theday, so you kind of can't have a
regular job if you're availableat the time we're meeting you
have to fit a certain persona tobe able to do that.
Jess (16:35):
Yeah, for certain job requirements.
Wow, you've given us a lot ofinteresting tactics and unique
opportunities then, when you arean entrepreneur or work by
yourself, of how to make those.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (16:46):
Yeah , yeah, I think it would be
unhealthy if I, like, was justsitting alone by myself every
day.
I'm a mom so I'm happy to besitting at home a lot and like
run and do the laundry, do thisthing, that thing for my girls.
But I think having that socialpart is super important for my
mental health and has helped meso much in my career.
(17:07):
Just having these peopleenriching like the art that I do
, the business that I do, likeit's been wonderful.
Jess (17:15):
So I think that's a perfect segue.
So you move from being aliterary agent to now writing
yourself.
Yes, how did you move from thatone agent to now writing
yourself.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (17:24):
How did you move from that one to
this?
Yes, so that's an interestingone.
It's like I feel like I tookbaby steps towards getting here.
So first, as a kid, I was oneof these many people who dreamed
of being a writer, especiallychildren's books.
It's just like it's always beena draw to me.
I kept reading picture books,even as like an adult.
My old law firm was in acrossfrom Grand Central Station and
there was this little bookstorenamed Poseman Books in Grand
(17:47):
Central and when I was feelinglike super stressed, I would
just walk over to there and goto the kids book section and
just like, look at the picturebooks, I just find them like
plumbing.
And so when I pivoted, I waslike I'm for sure going into
children's books, and so Istarted representing clients.
And then I went, I ghost wrotea book.
And then I had my friend, who'san agent, also had a client who
(18:12):
wanted to write a book, but sheherself wasn't a writer.
She had this nice platform andthis great idea, and my agent
knew that I had specialized inmiddle grade nonfiction and that
I had a ghost written this book.
And she's like.
She's like you have the goods,you can do this?
Why don't you just talk to thiswoman, let's prepare the
(18:33):
proposal?
I think you can do this.
And I was like are you sure?
And my agent to this day, LilyGaramani from Full Circle
Literary Angel Woman?
She was like you can do, youcan do this, you circle literary
angel woman.
She was like you can do, youcan do this, you can do this.
So I was like okay.
So then I talked to the woman.
This woman, Allison Matuli,amazing woman, really hit it off
.
And then we end up preparingthis proposal for a book, a
kid's book, about the firstamendment.
Um sold the book and thenLily's like so you're gonna
(18:54):
write it.
I was like okay.
So then I started doing thatand then the project went off
great.
The book came out two years ago.
It's called called your Freedom, your Power A Kid's Guide to
the First Amendment.
It got starred reviews, whichis kind of a big deal in our
industry and was a reallypositive, wonderful experience,
Really proud of that.
So then I had co-authored abook.
I went from representingghostwriting co-authoring and so
(19:16):
now, standing on my own twofeet, I decided to write a book
on my own.
And I I decided to write a bookon my own, and the other passion
I had since I was a kid wassoccer, specifically women's
soccer.
I played as a kid.
I was in high school when the1999 World Cup happened the
whole Mia Hamm, Brandi Chastainand I was 16.
(19:41):
I attended the opening match ofthe whole tournament with my
friends and it was like awatershed moment for me.
It was like I don't know.
Growing up in like the 80s and90s, I was a sports girl, right.
I have all these brothers and Ilove, like Michael Jordan and
Wayne Gretzky and all these likelarger than life athletes who
are all men.
And then I went to this stadiumthat was filled with girls
(20:03):
Everyone on the field was awoman ponytail were all men.
And then I went to this stadiumthat was filled with girls
Everyone on the field was awoman ponytail, sports bra and
it was just such an incredibleexperience.
I felt my own power as a girlfor one of the first times in my
life and it was so awesome, itwas so celebratory and it just
stuck with me and that just gotme hooked on women's soccer
forever the US Women's NationalTeam forever and have been a fan
(20:24):
ever since.
So when it came time to write myown book again.
My amazing agent, Lily's, likegot to write this book, you got
to find a great topic and I waslike what should I write about?
What should I write about?
And then it just hit me likethere has not been like a book
for teens about the wholehistory of women's soccer, the
(20:46):
whole history of women's soccer,so not just these women in 1999
and after the amazing equal payfight that went down and Title
IX and all that.
But 100 years before that, 150years before that, the sport had
these incredible beginnings inthe UK where women, the first
women, these Victorian ladies,would take off their corsets,
put on these scandalizing pantsand they were literally chased
(21:07):
off the field by men.
But they went out there, justwanted to play and they just
defied all social norms at thetime.
And then there was this wholeincredible history that happened
from then, these first games inthe 80s through to now, and so
this book it's called Girls withGoals how Women's Soccer Took
Over the World is the firstgames in the 80s through to now,
and so this book it's calledGirls with Goals how Women's
Soccer Took Over the World isthe first book in the children's
and teen market.
That basically goes through thevery, very beginnings of the
(21:30):
sport till now and it justcelebrates all the amazing women
and the amazing wins that theyhad throughout this whole thing.
Like people don't know thatwomen's soccer was banned for 50
years in England.
It was just.
Claude (21:45):
What Like in which years , like when was it banned?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (21:49):
So the late 1920s until about the
1970s.
Claude (21:53):
Wow yeah 1971.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (21:56):
And what happened was um, there was
so okay, how you guys have seenthe movie, a league of their
own, how the women's team.
Okay, so take that, but make itworld war.
One put it in england, and itwas with soccer.
So all the men went to war,they left the factories, so the
women the women went to thefactories and at the time.
Jess (22:15):
I want to see this movie like my, if this movie needs to
be made.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (22:19):
My book's available for option.
But so the men left to go towar.
The women worked in thefactories for the first time and
at the time all these towns wholove football, right, their
local teams were actually teamsmade from people who worked at
the factory.
So the women were allowed toform these teams because it was
a charitable venture they wereraising money for, like the boys
(22:40):
on the forefront of the war,and so that's why it was allowed
.
And out of these teams, thisincredible team called Dick Kerr
, and it was named after thefactory it was the Dick Kerr
Munition Factory and they werejust this unstoppable,
incredible team with these greatpersonalities and they would
gather crowds of like 50,000people.
There's like what this was inthe late twenties and it kind of
(23:04):
like pissed off the footballassociation, the formal, like
men's football association, andthen they issued a ban that no
women were able to play in anystadium associated with the FA,
which is all of them.
And so that basically bannedthem from playing.
That happened for 50 years andso basically they got so
incredibly popular Like theywould make international news.
(23:27):
They were beloved.
It was called the first goldenage of women's soccer, and then
nothing, poof nothing, andeveryone forgot about it.
You barely hear about it and itwas just like this incredible,
incredible team that was sobeloved.
And then, basically, women'ssoccer was resurrected in the
1970s with title nine in the us.
It basically awoke the sleepinggiant of america, and then we
(23:49):
became freaking awesome atsoccer.
And then all these other thingshappened.
But it the book kind of goesthrough all of it and it's it's
just.
Women were told no every stepof the way and every single time
they overcame it.
They won every single time.
So it's such a victorious,uplifting story.
It can feel tough right now tobe a girl or a woman and like to
(24:12):
have something that's just souplifting where women are, like
always, the victors.
It's wonderful.
It's a wonderful story.
Jess (24:20):
So I am a huge fan of soccer.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (24:23):
I played it my whole childhood
Amazing.
Jess (24:26):
I also have a memory.
I was at that same game withMia.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina G (24:29):
Hayes .
Jess (24:29):
And I actually got to meet her randomly once when I lived
in Chicago.
To this day, it's probably oneof my absolute favorite meetings
.
And the poor woman I wentrunning up no one was bothering
her, I was the only one that waslike Dude.
I hug you.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina (24:43):
You're so cool Like come on I think
that is a person where I wouldnot be able to be cool in front
of Like I would not be able tobe cool in front of you.
She's just like she's very shy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what I've read and seen,but.
I think, I'm a huge dork aroundher.
Jess (25:03):
Yeah, I was a very big dork.
She was very kind because I'veheard after the fact, when I
told people the story they werelike she does not like that type
of stuff and she said okay tothe hug and I hugged her like
barely, Wow, you hugged her, Idid.
Well, I asked.
I wasn't like just ran in but,um, which would not have been
unlike me.
No, I did ask, cause she wassitting there waiting and it was
(25:26):
pretty.
It was a pretty empty bar.
It wasn't like there was likelots of people around her.
She's very nice, but you couldtell she didn't really want to
chit chat, sure.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (25:32):
Sure .
But that was like the highlightof my life, like just being able
to be in the presence ofsomebody that was so monumental
to women and empowering yeahthis day when I see that, like
you know, julie Fowdy will oftenbe on commentate on sports, or
Brandi Tostini's or BriannaScrape, I see them and I feel
powerful.
You know what I mean, becausethey were so impactful to girls
(25:56):
of my generation, young women ofour generation, just like at at
the time and it was, it was, itwas just huge, like their
impact was just so huge and Ilove that they're all kind of
still out there doing theirthing, like still inspiring and
still supportive and still, yeah, so cool and I love that.
Jess (26:12):
The book I didn't even realize it's about the book, so
I'm so excited to get my handson a copy and read it to my
daughter too.
But the cool thing about it isthe hit like the history.
I didn't know any of that stuff, so yeah, I like you know maybe
I don't even know where I wouldstart to learn any of that.
So it's so great that you'reable to put that in front of
people and kind of remind themyeah, and I have to say like so
(26:32):
we're even educating.
I don't even remind.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (26:33):
Yeah well, a lot of the research
done was from these incredibleacademics.
The number one main gal is, uh,this woman, jean williams, who's
in the uk, but so women'shistory is so often unwritten,
unrecorded and so, yes, thesehistorians had to like dig
through old newspapers, churchregisters just for, like, a
(26:56):
mention of anything, and so hardto dig up that kind of history.
So the first woman who reallydid it was this woman, jean
Williams, who's still around,still amazing, and then inspired
all these other academics tostart looking into their own
region.
So I mean there's still a lotto uncover.
Look, I basically went put inthe book like the things that
are out there, but there's stillwork being done and I feel like
(27:17):
there's going to be some moreamazing stories that we learn,
especially out of, like SouthAmerica, africa, asia, like
there's going to be some reallycool stuff I should mention.
I should mention the book islike super global in theme.
It's the world's game, right.
So we really tried to have thatbook reflected in the book.
So we cover all the continents,are in here and we bring in as
(27:42):
much of the love as possible inthis book.
Claude (27:44):
And are you looking to have it translated?
Because, if you think about it,soccer is the number one sport.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (27:50):
I mean, I think the publisher is
really smart and really wantingto sell it in lots of
territories.
It's actually coming out in theUK with a slightly different
title how Women's Football TookOver the World on two days later
, may 8th.
So it's definitely coming outin the US and UK, but I think
there are plans to expand whereit's coming out and that would
make me so so, so proud.
Jess (28:11):
So what kind of message do you want young girls, or even
the parents of these young girls, to take away from this?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (28:18):
If you have a passion, if you have
something that you love, like,just go and do it, find a way to
do it.
There will be people tell youno, but there will be people say
yes, and there will also beother girls and women who feel
the same way you do and findthem.
Make a work, bestie, you knowwhat I mean In what you just
(28:39):
like, just if you love somethinglike, no one can tell you not
to do that, um, and just find away.
There's always a way and thesewomen always found a way.
Even when it was looking realbleak during that band, they
found a way and now like, lookwhat women's soccer is today.
It's an absolute behemoth andcontinuing to just bring so much
joy and inspiration to millionsand millions and millions of
(29:02):
people.
Not just girls and women, men,you know, boys, that's great.
Claude (29:06):
And especially together.
Right, it's that togethernessagain, that strength that those
women were together to be ableto show up.
Sometimes we say women goagainst women, but no, women go
together and really try to makethe world better.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (29:25):
Yeah , 100%, and you hear over and
over again from the playerswe're just trying to make it
better for the girls of thefuture From very early on in the
sports.
We're just trying to lay thepath.
We're fighting for this now,not for us, but for them.
(29:48):
There's a otherness to it.
You know they're not justthinking about themselves.
There's a togetherness.
Jess (29:52):
It's beautiful.
Yeah, how can mentorship andthose strong friendships that we
are talking about, the workbesties, how can they help young
girls reach these goals?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (29:59):
Just don't forget about the girls,
right?
I just feel like there's somuch of the world I mean, we
know this so much of the worldis created for men and boys in
mind, and just don't forgetabout them.
Sometimes they need a specifickind of mentorship.
There's a bit in Mia Hamm whenthey won the first World Cup.
So their coach, toni DiCicco.
(30:20):
At the time she said coacheslike men, treat us like women,
and what that meant was give uspositive reinforcement.
Don't just yell at us.
Be aware of our like emotionalstate.
You know what I mean, likethings like that.
So just like catering how youtreat people, how you mentor
people, with that in mind, thatjust what you do for the general
population, what you do for menand boys isn't necessarily what
the girl and women isn'tnecessarily how they will thrive
(30:43):
best.
And just keep the girls in mind.
Keep them in mind.
Jess (30:48):
Yes, like the training, the tactics, the skills,
potentially the same, but themotivation, the encouragement,
keep in mind the group, and itmight not even be, to be fully
transparent, the differencebetween male, between male
female, but just the dynamics ofthe group working together yeah
, for sure, of course.
I love this.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (31:06):
You have this book coming up with
mention when it's launching andwhere people will yeah, so it's
out May 6th in the US and it'savailable just kind of like
wherever books are available.
Pre-orders are open now and inthe UK it is coming out two days
later on May 8th.
Jess (31:21):
What's next on your horizon?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (31:24):
Yes , so I talked about my love of
picture books, working on somepicture books.
I would love to do some more inthe women's sports space.
I mean basketball right now,women's basketball right now is
just on fire and it's likeamazing to watch and I see a lot
of parallels to the women'ssoccer rise and it's just so
(31:45):
cool to like be able to witnessthis again.
Right, and I'd love to do dosort of like something in in the
basketball space for sure andthey're going to have to do the
equal pay too in basketballright yes, and luckily we have
some ladies who paved the way onthat yes still some work to
come, but yes it's gettingbetter, so that's awesome.
Jess (32:07):
It sounds like you've got a lot coming up.
We're excited for you and nowthat you've given behind your
evolution and some ideas forthose that are also in a similar
situation, do you have anyadvice for people considering a
career pivot, because you'vedone it a couple of times?
Do you have any advice forpeople considering a career
pivot, because you've done it acouple of times?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (32:23):
Yes , I have.
I just think life has manychapters and just because you
decided to do this one thingwhen you were 22, 25, like,
doesn't mean you have to do thatfor the next 60 years.
If you think of all the reasonswhy not to do something, you're
not going to do something.
Yes, obviously, especially ifyou have a family and stuff like
that.
Like you have to think about,weigh some of that stuff.
(32:45):
But I also think just take thathead first step into this new
thing that you feel like couldmake you happy and go for it.
Um, I just feel like so oftenpeople don't have regrets when
they make that kind of decisionand you only live once and again
.
Life has many chapters, so justtime for a new one sometimes.
Jess (33:04):
I think the way you said it is so smart.
You usually don't have theregrets on the change.
It's the regret for not doingit.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (33:09):
Yeah , for sure.
Claude (33:11):
Say people don't be scared of making the change
Scrape together some courage.
Jess (33:15):
Nothing but positivity will come from it.
So last question how can ourlisteners follow you on?
Find me on Instagram at atMossy Pines, Clelia.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (33:44):
And there I post about what it's
like being a you know, a writerand freelancer in the Pacific
Northwest.
I talk about kids books, ifyou're into that, and some of my
work too.
Jess (33:55):
Show notes for those that didn't get get to quickly write
that down so you'll be able toclick directly.
Clelia, your down so you'll beable to click directly, clélia,
your journey is so cool, fromhow many minutes you've forged
your path.
And, yes, you have manychapters and it sounds like you
still have more chapters to come.
If I could just wrap it up,it's almost like saying
everything you're doing is allabout empowering women.
(34:16):
I mean, yes, the specific bookthat we just talked about but,
everything, yeah.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (34:20):
I appreciate that.
Jess (34:26):
Yeah, it's such a great reminder that forge your path
and and find the people tosupport you, because they're out
there For sure, that's mychallenge All you work besties
out there going into a bookstoreand maybe flipping through the
chat, the books with the kids'pictures and finding other
people doing it or whatever yourkind of niche is really create
that book or that group ofpeople that can be your sounding
(34:48):
board.
I think that is such a smartidea.
You could do it in thecorporate environment where you
take 20, 30 minutes on a Zoomcall, that you connect and chat
about what's going on with youor do it live.
Find your creative way to dothat.
So we challenge all of way todo that.
So we challenge all of you tocreate that and share that story
with us.
What are your creative ways thatyou've created these unique
groups of people and how you goabout doing it and keeping it
(35:10):
active?
Let's keep that conversationgoing.
We'd love to hear from all ofour work besties any empowering
books they're currently readingthemselves or even to their kids
, and tag us at work besties whopodcast.
So if you've loved this episode, show us some love like,
subscribe and follow so younever miss an episode, and leave
us a review, because it helpsus provide you even more work
(35:30):
bestie fun.
Share this episode with yourfellow book lovers, and please
look out for Clelia and followher.
So until next time rememberwhether you're swapping snacks
in the break room, rescuing eachother from endless meetings or
just sending that perfectlytimed meme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
(35:51):
squad.
Claude (35:52):
So keep lifting each other, laughing through the
chaos and, of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Work besties.
What happens when your work bestie becomes your life
partner, and how do you find newwork besties when you step away
from that corporate life andmove into entrepreneurship?
Well, today's guest, cleliaCastro Malaspino, has navigated
these transitions, and more so.
She was a former literary agentand she's turned to an
(00:20):
entrepreneur, and Clelia nowruns her own editorial and
consulting company called MossyPines Creative and is the author
of an upcoming book that we'resuper excited to preview and
talk about.
Stay tuned, because Clelia isgoing to drop some really
powerful insights on findingconnections in every stage of
life.
Claude (00:40):
Hi, I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night and
work besties for life.
Jess (00:49):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry.
Claude (01:01):
Welcome, Clelia.
So happy to have you here.
Please introduce yourself tothe audience.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (01:07):
Yes , I'm Clelia Castro Malaspina.
I'm so excited to be here.
Thank you.
I am a former literary agent.
I work in the children's bookindustry, but now I am a
freelance editor, a consultantand an author.
Do you ever sleep?
Well, you know, I'm a mother ofa three-year-old, so the answer
to that is no, no.
Jess (01:25):
That's how you do it all.
Now I get it.
Yes.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (01:28):
You know, adrenaline takes you
pretty far in life.
Jess (01:31):
It really does, especially during those ages.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (01:35):
For sure.
Jess (01:36):
So, clelia, you've got a lot for us to chat about.
One of the things that I thinkis kind of unique, that you
don't hear often, is how one ofyour original or early on work
besties has now become your lifepart.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (01:50):
That is true.
Jess (01:52):
Would you mind sharing about that?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (01:54):
So my husband, mike, and I, we met
.
So before I was a literaryagent, I was actually a lawyer.
I've had many chapters in lifebut I was a lawyer for a few
years.
That I didn't last very long.
But my husband I actually metfirst as interns at the law firm
we eventually both worked at.
So we were law students and weboth happened to go to law
(02:15):
school in DC.
The firm was in New York andthen we worked together in New
York the first two years of ourlegal careers the only two years
of my legal career and then we,you know, we hit it off right
away.
Actually we were friends,definitely friends first.
We were both dating otherpeople, sort of not interested
in each other in that way, butwe really just hit it off right
(02:36):
away.
I first met him in Union Station, which is in DC, waiting for
the train to go to Philadelphiafor the like kickoff summer
intern work event.
It was like in March of oursecond year of law school and I
was kind of looking around forsomeone who looked about my age
and a suit like maybe looked lawfor me, and so I went up to
this guy who's like hey, are youhere for the thing.
(02:57):
And he was like, yeah, and sowe, we stood next to each other,
we sat next to each other onthe train and we just started
yapping.
We had really similar sense ofhumor and I was like, okay, this
guy you know he's funny, thisis good.
I was kind of nervous.
It was my first real job and Iwas like this is going to be
okay.
And then that summer came aroundand we were kind of like
(03:18):
buddies the whole time.
We always sat next to eachother on the bus, sat next to
each other on the bus.
I'd go to his office to chat,we'd kind of like put our heads
together on projects and stufflike that.
There was a lot of events.
We were hung out at events.
A lot Just thought each otherwere funny.
We both were reading.
The last Harry Potter came outthat summer and there are all
these serious lawyers in NewYork and then I remember we were
(03:39):
the only two who were sort ofjust like in our offices
pretending to work but just likefuriously reading the last
Harry Potter and then talkingabout it.
So that was a good sign.
And then when we ended upworking together for real about
a year later after we'd takenthe bar exam and all that.
I kind of realized.
Well, maybe, like we're suchgood friends for a reason, mike
(04:00):
was definitely sort of like mybud, my main bud, and then it
blossomed.
Jess (04:04):
Yeah, so do you think that working together had
strengthened that bond?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (04:09):
For sure.
I mean especially so.
We were a summer associates andfirst year, second year
associates in New York City in acorporate law firm in 2008 and
2009, when it was like a crazytime to be in that situation and
it's a kind of notoriouslydifficult environment and so
you're kind of like in thetrenches together.
(04:29):
It's like we would be at theoffice till like 10 pm,
sometimes midnight, and justhaving a bud there.
Who understood what was what?
was going on and to someone whocould always make you laugh,
even if, like people were beingmean to you, stress was high and
you had a million things to do.
Claude (04:46):
It was it was great having that go-to person and did
you become an item during that,uh, that time, or?
Clelia Castro-Malasp (04:55):
afterwards oh no, we certainly did.
It was like this big secret.
For a while, though it was kindof annoying.
Everyone was like yeah, we knewyou guys would get together,
which was like such an annoyingcomment, because that for a long
time I was like no, he's justmy friend, he's just my friend,
he's just my friend.
But then everyone else wasright, I guess, and I was yeah,
(05:16):
they saw the connection as well.
Yes, yeah, I mean, I guess therewas definitely like obvious
sparks, but I thought it waslike no, we just have the same
sense of humor, but it was morethan that.
I was wrong.
Jess (05:26):
So you two then became together and then you left and
created a whole nother pivotyeah.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (05:32):
So I totally pivoted.
Well, actually there is someoverlap.
I'd say I left my legal career.
I'd say I left my career as alawyer but as a literary agent,
and I did that for about nineyears.
There is this whole contractnegotiation element of it.
I did that for about nine years.
There is this whole contractnegotiation element of it.
But basically, for those whodon't know what a literary agent
does, is they representcreators, writers and
illustrators too in my industryfor children's books and you
(05:55):
basically work with them todevelop their work and then you
pitch it to publishers hoping tosell their work, and when you
sell them you negotiate theircontracts and then you also kind
of manage their career fromthen on in.
So it's definitely like amulti-faceted job.
It was a cool job.
It was a big, big, big pivotbecause I worked from this like
big international law firm.
You know where we'd have virtualmeetings with the Hong Kong
(06:16):
office and there'd be like work,happy hours and Christmas
parties and and weekly groupmeetings, monthly firm meetings
to like a company.
At first it was just me and oneother woman and then it grew to
three and then it grew to fourwhen I was there and it was
based in Seattle but like mostlyremote, and so that was like a
totally big pivot and I wouldsay, for the most part I like
(06:39):
that pivot.
But one of the biggestchallenges was that I am, like
inherently a very social person.
I you know, when I was at thefirm I had a lot of friends like
hung out.
I was happy to sit at the lunchtable to chat.
Going to people's office tovisit, went to the happy hours,
went to the events always gamefor that sort of stuff and to
(07:01):
day I still remain good friendswith some people I worked with
15 years ago there.
So going to this situationwhere Hybrid or a remote
situation.
Jess (07:12):
Yeah, it was how did you navigate getting that kind of
social connection still?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (07:17):
I pretty much figured out that
that was going to be a challengefor me right away.
And so to me it was like how canI figure out ways to get that
socialization and a job that'slike not by design super social?
And so I came up with kind oflike a plan that ended up
working out and then later on,when I started my own business
it's a business of one I wasable to employ that too and and
(07:41):
it's continue, continue that.
So basically in a couple ways,right.
So first I did work with a fewwomen, and we're all generally
in the same area, and so, eventhough we worked remotely, we
would meet up periodically tohave like a group lunch,
whatever One of the women wholived near me.
We would meet up periodicallyat like a coffee shop, just to
like have someone to sit next toand chat with and do work next
(08:03):
to.
For a while I also made sure tojust like every month I had to
like go meet someone in person,so like people in your industry.
So to me there were publishingis a small industry in Seattle,
which is where I live, but weall know each other, right and
so, and most of us work byourselves at home, remotely, so
(08:25):
it's an easy, yes, to getsomeone to come have coffee with
you, come have lunch with youbecause they're also sort of
happy to see someone.
Sort of like, every month Ihave to make a coffee or lunch
date with someone and I considerit networking, right, even if
it's just a social call, butit's someone in your industry.
You definitely always talkabout industry stuff, so it's a
networking thing.
I also join groups that areassociated with my industry.
(08:47):
So in the children's book worldthere's this awesome
organization called the Societyof Children's Books, writers and
Illustrators, which is creatorswho live in the area get
together.
It's a national organizationbut it has local branches and
this branch, you know, iswonderful, the Western
Washington branch.
They have events and meetupsand stuff, and the people are
all like-minded, have the sameinterests, the same
(09:09):
appreciations in life.
So it's great to meet peoplethat way.
The other thing I do so I can'tlike work at the same desk like
every day, right, I need to likechange it up.
So I have my coffee shops that Ilike, that I base on vibes,
right, if they're good vibes,you get to be one of my regular
shop coffee shops.
And sometimes you see the samepeople over and over again and
(09:32):
so a few years into me workingremotely, I'd seen the same
people so I was like you knowwhat, I'm just gonna talk to
these people and just like sayhi, it'll be awkward, but like,
and in the end you kind of havelike your coffee shop buddies,
yeah, you know, and sometimesyou'll like lock eyes across the
shop when something funnyhappens, or you know what I mean
or chat like a complicatedorder comes in and you're like
(09:56):
yeah, so maybe you know I'm adesperate woman and just to make
it, you know what it's likeit's probably like when you were
in the corporate environment asyour lawyer you still had to
work with the accounting team,or you had to work the it team
and you still have thoseconnections, even though you
don't really see your work, soit's not like work besties, but
(10:19):
coffee besties.
Claude (10:20):
So did you yeah?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (10:21):
sure ?
Well, I mean, we're just inthere doing work.
It's our alternative workplace,I guess, but it's funny.
You do like see the same peopleover and over again.
And what's funny?
Now, in my new job we alsomoved to a suburb of Seattle so
I had to find a whole newonslaught of good vibes coffee
shops.
But one of them randomly endedup being like this place where
(10:42):
other kid books creators go to.
I did not know, but like I wasthere a couple times I'd be like
I'd be like rob kevin ellie,like it has become.
This place for whatever reasonattracts that type of people so
that one's great to go tobecause you might just run into
someone who you actually workwith yeah, so that was cool.
(11:04):
Yeah, and then the last thing Iwant to say, which I'm most
proud of, is that you kind oflike make your own group.
In my author life, I reallywanted to have the benefit of
other writers looking at my work, critiquing my work.
Critique groups are common withwriters and it's just you kind
of like I'll put your headstogether, read your stuff, give
each other feedback Cheerleadingis great so I didn't have that,
(11:28):
and so I put out a call for onethrough this organization,
scbwi, and was able to get agroup of five writers together
that we meet in person everyWednesday morning, the same
coffee shop for two hours.
I fully consider this a part ofmy job, but in the best
possible way, and it has becomesuch a absolute wonderful part
of my life and my week, andthese people were just like each
(11:51):
other's cheerleaders.
Our work has gotten betterbecause of the time we spent
together and we're just alsohappy to have this group, and it
was something that I came outof my need to have more work
friends.
Claude (12:03):
That's incredible, that is a great you know insight and
for people that are the same,you know working for their, for
their own, to go, so to do thisgroup to build their own group.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (12:15):
Yeah , I mean, I think, like you'll
find that people like spendingtime with people.
I think it's like literallyscience of happiness, like
having interactions, personalinteractions with other people
like gives you joy.
Even if it's like a mediuminteraction, it's better than
being alone.
So I think people would bereally receptive and maybe are
(12:36):
too shy or don't know how orwhatever.
So if you go out there and tryand create something like people
will come.
Jess (12:41):
You know, and it's a really eclectic group thing like
people will come, you know, andit's a really eclectic group.
Yeah, over time you probablybuild that trust.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (12:48):
So now you share more, maybe not
even just the work related, butthe personal stuff too, that's
for sure, yes, and it's like wehave a baby boomer, gen x, three
millennials, like coming fromthe east side, the west side.
It's like it's a good group,that's a good hat A lot of
diversity.
Claude (13:06):
That is great because we always say also with World
Besties.
A lot of times you have thisinter-generation friendship.
So we need to have a generationof millennials.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (13:19):
Yeah , and I feel like work is a
special place where you canactually have those
intergenerational relationships,even though I had to sort of
like make it on my own, like itis related to my work and part
of my job.
Jess (13:32):
Well, it's related to your work.
It's helping for all of you,I'm sure.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (13:35):
For sure.
Jess (13:36):
But it's also probably a really good, almost like the
equivalent of meditation, whereyou take that step back and
appreciate what you're doing,because you have these other
people to discuss it with.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (13:47):
Yeah , no, a hundred percent.
It's just like and we're alllike trusted people in each
other's lives.
Now, writing is inherently sucha personal activity right.
And so every week we're sharingreally personal stuff and, you
know, helping each other make itbetter.
There's so much frustrationthat comes with being an
aspiring writer or aspiringauthor, and so you know, getting
(14:09):
out those frustrations, comingup with strategies, tactics,
sharing information, stuff likethat.
It's just been really wonderful.
And you know, I've been in theindustry for a long time, but
some of the others haven't, andso but I think I feel like I've
taken something from all of them.
Like I feel like I probablythink I can give a lot, but I
feel like I've gotten from everysingle one of them and it's
(14:31):
been just a really positiveexperience.
Jess (14:33):
It's amazing, you're all giving as much as you're taking.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (14:35):
Yeah , for sure, and we're all taking
.
We're all taking yeah.
Jess (14:38):
But that's the whole point of a relationship like that,
and work besties in general ismeant to do that.
It's the person that's going tochallenge you but also applaud
you, so it's a good For sure,for sure, and like the nature of
a critique group literally hasthe word critique inside of it,
so there's some challenging.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (14:58):
You know of it being like this
isn't good and here's why.
Claude (15:02):
But, like said, nicely Right right, but that's what is
important.
Yeah, that's what is importantwhen you trust again, I'm going
back to the same jess, you know,but the trust right, when you
trust someone and you trusttheir point of view I would
think at least I know in.
Jess (15:18):
even in my industry, when I ask for critiques on some
stuff, I take the feedback morereadily from people that they
know how to do it too, because Ifeel like the experience adds
another layer to it as well.
But, yes, you also need tobuild that trust too, which is,
it sounds like you guys did.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (15:36):
Yeah , no for sure, and it's now.
The group's been in existencefor almost two years, so
everyone's safe.
Jess (15:43):
That's awesome, because you threw that out.
Claude (15:45):
there Are you thinking even to bring more people, or
it's just that this is you, westarted as a five and then we
brought in a six.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (15:57):
We have six members.
Claude (15:59):
Six now.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (16:00):
She was a wonderful ad.
I remember everyone was alittle nervous at first, yeah,
yeah, because we had a greatthing going right, but then it
was good and also not everyonecan come every week, so it's
good to have.
You're pretty much guaranteedto have like three seats filled,
which makes for a good critiquesession.
(16:21):
That's good, I would say.
We are still open to otherpeople, but we also meet in the
middle of the week, during theday, so you kind of can't have a
regular job if you're availableat the time we're meeting you
have to fit a certain persona tobe able to do that.
Jess (16:35):
Yeah, for certain job requirements.
Wow, you've given us a lot ofinteresting tactics and unique
opportunities then, when you arean entrepreneur or work by
yourself, of how to make those.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (16:46):
Yeah , yeah, I think it would be
unhealthy if I, like, was justsitting alone by myself every
day.
I'm a mom so I'm happy to besitting at home a lot and like
run and do the laundry, do thisthing, that thing for my girls.
But I think having that socialpart is super important for my
mental health and has helped meso much in my career.
(17:07):
Just having these peopleenriching like the art that I do
, the business that I do, likeit's been wonderful.
Jess (17:15):
So I think that's a perfect segue.
So you move from being aliterary agent to now writing
yourself.
Yes, how did you move from thatone agent to now writing
yourself.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (17:24):
How did you move from that one to
this?
Yes, so that's an interestingone.
It's like I feel like I tookbaby steps towards getting here.
So first, as a kid, I was oneof these many people who dreamed
of being a writer, especiallychildren's books.
It's just like it's always beena draw to me.
I kept reading picture books,even as like an adult.
My old law firm was in acrossfrom Grand Central Station and
there was this little bookstorenamed Poseman Books in Grand
(17:47):
Central and when I was feelinglike super stressed, I would
just walk over to there and goto the kids book section and
just like, look at the picturebooks, I just find them like
plumbing.
And so when I pivoted, I waslike I'm for sure going into
children's books, and so Istarted representing clients.
And then I went, I ghost wrotea book.
And then I had my friend, who'san agent, also had a client who
(18:12):
wanted to write a book, but sheherself wasn't a writer.
She had this nice platform andthis great idea, and my agent
knew that I had specialized inmiddle grade nonfiction and that
I had a ghost written this book.
And she's like.
She's like you have the goods,you can do this?
Why don't you just talk to thiswoman, let's prepare the
(18:33):
proposal?
I think you can do this.
And I was like are you sure?
And my agent to this day, LilyGaramani from Full Circle
Literary Angel Woman?
She was like you can do, youcan do this, you circle literary
angel woman.
She was like you can do, youcan do this, you can do this.
So I was like okay.
So then I talked to the woman.
This woman, Allison Matuli,amazing woman, really hit it off
.
And then we end up preparingthis proposal for a book, a
kid's book, about the firstamendment.
Um sold the book and thenLily's like so you're gonna
(18:54):
write it.
I was like okay.
So then I started doing thatand then the project went off
great.
The book came out two years ago.
It's called called your Freedom, your Power A Kid's Guide to
the First Amendment.
It got starred reviews, whichis kind of a big deal in our
industry and was a reallypositive, wonderful experience,
Really proud of that.
So then I had co-authored abook.
I went from representingghostwriting co-authoring and so
(19:16):
now, standing on my own twofeet, I decided to write a book
on my own.
And I I decided to write a bookon my own, and the other passion
I had since I was a kid wassoccer, specifically women's
soccer.
I played as a kid.
I was in high school when the1999 World Cup happened the
whole Mia Hamm, Brandi Chastainand I was 16.
(19:41):
I attended the opening match ofthe whole tournament with my
friends and it was like awatershed moment for me.
It was like I don't know.
Growing up in like the 80s and90s, I was a sports girl, right.
I have all these brothers and Ilove, like Michael Jordan and
Wayne Gretzky and all these likelarger than life athletes who
are all men.
And then I went to this stadiumthat was filled with girls
(20:03):
Everyone on the field was awoman ponytail were all men.
And then I went to this stadiumthat was filled with girls
Everyone on the field was awoman ponytail, sports bra and
it was just such an incredibleexperience.
I felt my own power as a girlfor one of the first times in my
life and it was so awesome, itwas so celebratory and it just
stuck with me and that just gotme hooked on women's soccer
forever the US Women's NationalTeam forever and have been a fan
(20:24):
ever since.
So when it came time to write myown book again.
My amazing agent, Lily's, likegot to write this book, you got
to find a great topic and I waslike what should I write about?
What should I write about?
And then it just hit me likethere has not been like a book
for teens about the wholehistory of women's soccer, the
(20:46):
whole history of women's soccer,so not just these women in 1999
and after the amazing equal payfight that went down and Title
IX and all that.
But 100 years before that, 150years before that, the sport had
these incredible beginnings inthe UK where women, the first
women, these Victorian ladies,would take off their corsets,
put on these scandalizing pantsand they were literally chased
(21:07):
off the field by men.
But they went out there, justwanted to play and they just
defied all social norms at thetime.
And then there was this wholeincredible history that happened
from then, these first games inthe 80s through to now, and so
this book it's called Girls withGoals how Women's Soccer Took
Over the World is the firstgames in the 80s through to now,
and so this book it's calledGirls with Goals how Women's
Soccer Took Over the World isthe first book in the children's
and teen market.
That basically goes through thevery, very beginnings of the
(21:30):
sport till now and it justcelebrates all the amazing women
and the amazing wins that theyhad throughout this whole thing.
Like people don't know thatwomen's soccer was banned for 50
years in England.
It was just.
Claude (21:45):
What Like in which years , like when was it banned?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (21:49):
So the late 1920s until about the
1970s.
Claude (21:53):
Wow yeah 1971.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (21:56):
And what happened was um, there was
so okay, how you guys have seenthe movie, a league of their
own, how the women's team.
Okay, so take that, but make itworld war.
One put it in england, and itwas with soccer.
So all the men went to war,they left the factories, so the
women the women went to thefactories and at the time.
Jess (22:15):
I want to see this movie like my, if this movie needs to
be made.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (22:19):
My book's available for option.
But so the men left to go towar.
The women worked in thefactories for the first time and
at the time all these towns wholove football, right, their
local teams were actually teamsmade from people who worked at
the factory.
So the women were allowed toform these teams because it was
a charitable venture they wereraising money for, like the boys
(22:40):
on the forefront of the war,and so that's why it was allowed
.
And out of these teams, thisincredible team called Dick Kerr
, and it was named after thefactory it was the Dick Kerr
Munition Factory and they werejust this unstoppable,
incredible team with these greatpersonalities and they would
gather crowds of like 50,000people.
There's like what this was inthe late twenties and it kind of
(23:04):
like pissed off the footballassociation, the formal, like
men's football association, andthen they issued a ban that no
women were able to play in anystadium associated with the FA,
which is all of them.
And so that basically bannedthem from playing.
That happened for 50 years andso basically they got so
incredibly popular Like theywould make international news.
(23:27):
They were beloved.
It was called the first goldenage of women's soccer, and then
nothing, poof nothing, andeveryone forgot about it.
You barely hear about it and itwas just like this incredible,
incredible team that was sobeloved.
And then, basically, women'ssoccer was resurrected in the
1970s with title nine in the us.
It basically awoke the sleepinggiant of america, and then we
(23:49):
became freaking awesome atsoccer.
And then all these other thingshappened.
But it the book kind of goesthrough all of it and it's it's
just.
Women were told no every stepof the way and every single time
they overcame it.
They won every single time.
So it's such a victorious,uplifting story.
It can feel tough right now tobe a girl or a woman and like to
(24:12):
have something that's just souplifting where women are, like
always, the victors.
It's wonderful.
It's a wonderful story.
Jess (24:20):
So I am a huge fan of soccer.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (24:23):
I played it my whole childhood
Amazing.
Jess (24:26):
I also have a memory.
I was at that same game withMia.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina G (24:29):
Hayes .
Jess (24:29):
And I actually got to meet her randomly once when I lived
in Chicago.
To this day, it's probably oneof my absolute favorite meetings
.
And the poor woman I wentrunning up no one was bothering
her, I was the only one that waslike Dude.
I hug you.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina (24:43):
You're so cool Like come on I think
that is a person where I wouldnot be able to be cool in front
of Like I would not be able tobe cool in front of you.
She's just like she's very shy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what I've read and seen,but.
I think, I'm a huge dork aroundher.
Jess (25:03):
Yeah, I was a very big dork.
She was very kind because I'veheard after the fact, when I
told people the story they werelike she does not like that type
of stuff and she said okay tothe hug and I hugged her like
barely, Wow, you hugged her, Idid.
Well, I asked.
I wasn't like just ran in but,um, which would not have been
unlike me.
No, I did ask, cause she wassitting there waiting and it was
(25:26):
pretty.
It was a pretty empty bar.
It wasn't like there was likelots of people around her.
She's very nice, but you couldtell she didn't really want to
chit chat, sure.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (25:32):
Sure .
But that was like the highlightof my life, like just being able
to be in the presence ofsomebody that was so monumental
to women and empowering yeahthis day when I see that, like
you know, julie Fowdy will oftenbe on commentate on sports, or
Brandi Tostini's or BriannaScrape, I see them and I feel
powerful.
You know what I mean, becausethey were so impactful to girls
(25:56):
of my generation, young women ofour generation, just like at at
the time and it was, it was, itwas just huge, like their
impact was just so huge and Ilove that they're all kind of
still out there doing theirthing, like still inspiring and
still supportive and still, yeah, so cool and I love that.
Jess (26:12):
The book I didn't even realize it's about the book, so
I'm so excited to get my handson a copy and read it to my
daughter too.
But the cool thing about it isthe hit like the history.
I didn't know any of that stuff, so yeah, I like you know maybe
I don't even know where I wouldstart to learn any of that.
So it's so great that you'reable to put that in front of
people and kind of remind themyeah, and I have to say like so
(26:32):
we're even educating.
I don't even remind.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (26:33):
Yeah well, a lot of the research
done was from these incredibleacademics.
The number one main gal is, uh,this woman, jean williams, who's
in the uk, but so women'shistory is so often unwritten,
unrecorded and so, yes, thesehistorians had to like dig
through old newspapers, churchregisters just for, like, a
(26:56):
mention of anything, and so hardto dig up that kind of history.
So the first woman who reallydid it was this woman, jean
Williams, who's still around,still amazing, and then inspired
all these other academics tostart looking into their own
region.
So I mean there's still a lotto uncover.
Look, I basically went put inthe book like the things that
are out there, but there's stillwork being done and I feel like
(27:17):
there's going to be some moreamazing stories that we learn,
especially out of, like SouthAmerica, africa, asia, like
there's going to be some reallycool stuff I should mention.
I should mention the book islike super global in theme.
It's the world's game, right.
So we really tried to have thatbook reflected in the book.
So we cover all the continents,are in here and we bring in as
(27:42):
much of the love as possible inthis book.
Claude (27:44):
And are you looking to have it translated?
Because, if you think about it,soccer is the number one sport.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (27:50):
I mean, I think the publisher is
really smart and really wantingto sell it in lots of
territories.
It's actually coming out in theUK with a slightly different
title how Women's Football TookOver the World on two days later
, may 8th.
So it's definitely coming outin the US and UK, but I think
there are plans to expand whereit's coming out and that would
make me so so, so proud.
Jess (28:11):
So what kind of message do you want young girls, or even
the parents of these young girls, to take away from this?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (28:18):
If you have a passion, if you have
something that you love, like,just go and do it, find a way to
do it.
There will be people tell youno, but there will be people say
yes, and there will also beother girls and women who feel
the same way you do and findthem.
Make a work, bestie, you knowwhat I mean In what you just
(28:39):
like, just if you love somethinglike, no one can tell you not
to do that, um, and just find away.
There's always a way and thesewomen always found a way.
Even when it was looking realbleak during that band, they
found a way and now like, lookwhat women's soccer is today.
It's an absolute behemoth andcontinuing to just bring so much
joy and inspiration to millionsand millions and millions of
(29:02):
people.
Not just girls and women, men,you know, boys, that's great.
Claude (29:06):
And especially together.
Right, it's that togethernessagain, that strength that those
women were together to be ableto show up.
Sometimes we say women goagainst women, but no, women go
together and really try to makethe world better.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (29:25):
Yeah , 100%, and you hear over and
over again from the playerswe're just trying to make it
better for the girls of thefuture From very early on in the
sports.
We're just trying to lay thepath.
We're fighting for this now,not for us, but for them.
(29:48):
There's a otherness to it.
You know they're not justthinking about themselves.
There's a togetherness.
Jess (29:52):
It's beautiful.
Yeah, how can mentorship andthose strong friendships that we
are talking about, the workbesties, how can they help young
girls reach these goals?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (29:59):
Just don't forget about the girls,
right?
I just feel like there's somuch of the world I mean, we
know this so much of the worldis created for men and boys in
mind, and just don't forgetabout them.
Sometimes they need a specifickind of mentorship.
There's a bit in Mia Hamm whenthey won the first World Cup.
So their coach, toni DiCicco.
(30:20):
At the time she said coacheslike men, treat us like women,
and what that meant was give uspositive reinforcement.
Don't just yell at us.
Be aware of our like emotionalstate.
You know what I mean, likethings like that.
So just like catering how youtreat people, how you mentor
people, with that in mind, thatjust what you do for the general
population, what you do for menand boys isn't necessarily what
the girl and women isn'tnecessarily how they will thrive
(30:43):
best.
And just keep the girls in mind.
Keep them in mind.
Jess (30:48):
Yes, like the training, the tactics, the skills,
potentially the same, but themotivation, the encouragement,
keep in mind the group, and itmight not even be, to be fully
transparent, the differencebetween male, between male
female, but just the dynamics ofthe group working together yeah
, for sure, of course.
I love this.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (31:06):
You have this book coming up with
mention when it's launching andwhere people will yeah, so it's
out May 6th in the US and it'savailable just kind of like
wherever books are available.
Pre-orders are open now and inthe UK it is coming out two days
later on May 8th.
Jess (31:21):
What's next on your horizon?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (31:24):
Yes , so I talked about my love of
picture books, working on somepicture books.
I would love to do some more inthe women's sports space.
I mean basketball right now,women's basketball right now is
just on fire and it's likeamazing to watch and I see a lot
of parallels to the women'ssoccer rise and it's just so
(31:45):
cool to like be able to witnessthis again.
Right, and I'd love to do dosort of like something in in the
basketball space for sure andthey're going to have to do the
equal pay too in basketballright yes, and luckily we have
some ladies who paved the way onthat yes still some work to
come, but yes it's gettingbetter, so that's awesome.
Jess (32:07):
It sounds like you've got a lot coming up.
We're excited for you and nowthat you've given behind your
evolution and some ideas forthose that are also in a similar
situation, do you have anyadvice for people considering a
career pivot, because you'vedone it a couple of times?
Do you have any advice forpeople considering a career
pivot, because you've done it acouple of times?
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (32:23):
Yes , I have.
I just think life has manychapters and just because you
decided to do this one thingwhen you were 22, 25, like,
doesn't mean you have to do thatfor the next 60 years.
If you think of all the reasonswhy not to do something, you're
not going to do something.
Yes, obviously, especially ifyou have a family and stuff like
that.
Like you have to think about,weigh some of that stuff.
(32:45):
But I also think just take thathead first step into this new
thing that you feel like couldmake you happy and go for it.
Um, I just feel like so oftenpeople don't have regrets when
they make that kind of decisionand you only live once and again
.
Life has many chapters, so justtime for a new one sometimes.
Jess (33:04):
I think the way you said it is so smart.
You usually don't have theregrets on the change.
It's the regret for not doingit.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Go (33:09):
Yeah , for sure.
Claude (33:11):
Say people don't be scared of making the change
Scrape together some courage.
Jess (33:15):
Nothing but positivity will come from it.
So last question how can ourlisteners follow you on?
Find me on Instagram at atMossy Pines, Clelia.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gor (33:44):
And there I post about what it's
like being a you know, a writerand freelancer in the Pacific
Northwest.
I talk about kids books, ifyou're into that, and some of my
work too.
Jess (33:55):
Show notes for those that didn't get get to quickly write
that down so you'll be able toclick directly.
Clelia, your down so you'll beable to click directly, clélia,
your journey is so cool, fromhow many minutes you've forged
your path.
And, yes, you have manychapters and it sounds like you
still have more chapters to come.
If I could just wrap it up,it's almost like saying
everything you're doing is allabout empowering women.
(34:16):
I mean, yes, the specific bookthat we just talked about but,
everything, yeah.
Clelia Castro-Malaspina Gore (34:20):
I appreciate that.
Jess (34:26):
Yeah, it's such a great reminder that forge your path
and and find the people tosupport you, because they're out
there For sure, that's mychallenge All you work besties
out there going into a bookstoreand maybe flipping through the
chat, the books with the kids'pictures and finding other
people doing it or whatever yourkind of niche is really create
that book or that group ofpeople that can be your sounding
(34:48):
board.
I think that is such a smartidea.
You could do it in thecorporate environment where you
take 20, 30 minutes on a Zoomcall, that you connect and chat
about what's going on with youor do it live.
Find your creative way to dothat.
So we challenge all of way todo that.
So we challenge all of you tocreate that and share that story
with us.
What are your creative ways thatyou've created these unique
groups of people and how you goabout doing it and keeping it
(35:10):
active?
Let's keep that conversationgoing.
We'd love to hear from all ofour work besties any empowering
books they're currently readingthemselves or even to their kids
, and tag us at work besties whopodcast.
So if you've loved this episode, show us some love like,
subscribe and follow so younever miss an episode, and leave
us a review, because it helpsus provide you even more work
(35:30):
bestie fun.
Share this episode with yourfellow book lovers, and please
look out for Clelia and followher.
So until next time rememberwhether you're swapping snacks
in the break room, rescuing eachother from endless meetings or
just sending that perfectlytimed meme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
(35:51):
squad.
Claude (35:52):
So keep lifting each other, laughing through the
chaos and, of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Work besties.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com