September 1, 2025 • 45 mins
In this thought-provoking episode, Jess and Claude dive into the power of work besties and intentional communication with Colleen Robinson and Deanna Pemberton, founders of Digital Dojo. Their work blends martial arts, coaching, and integral medicine—bringing fresh insights into how relationships thrive in both personal and professional settings.
Together, they unpack:
- Why listening is more than just hearing.
- How setting standards can be more empowering than boundaries.
- The role empathy plays in building authentic connections.
- Why two perspectives can be valid at the same time.
- Practical steps for self-empowerment and stronger relationships.
From “breath-to-breath listening” to reframing how we think about boundaries, this conversation challenges old patterns and equips you with tools for personal growth, better communication, and deeper connections.
🔑 Takeaways
- Work besties make work better.
- Communication is the foundation of any relationship.
- Standards > boundaries.
- Listening actively leads to understanding.
- Empowerment starts with self-awareness.
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Work Besties! Theme Song Written by Ralph Lentini @therallyband
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jess (00:00):
What do martial arts, trauma healing and leadership
coaching all have in common?
Well, according to today'sguest, everything.
We're joined today by ColleenRobinson and Dana Pemberton,
founders of the Digital Dojo andthe Black Belt Mind.
Claude (00:14):
They've helped everyone, from individuals in crisis to
corporate teams realign, releaseand rise.
Jess (00:21):
Whether you're feeling stuck, overwhelmed or ready to
reclaim your power, this episodehas something for you.
Claude (00:29):
And stay with us.
We'll tell you how to accessthe free white belt mind
framework that could help youshift today.
Hi, I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night and
work besties for life.
Jess (00:45):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry Work besties WelcomeDana and Colleen.
We're so excited to have youguys.
Dana Pemberton (01:00):
Thank you, we've been looking forward to this.
Colleen Robinson (01:02):
Yes, we have Thanks for having us.
Dana Pemberton (01:04):
We're excited to be here we love the feel of how
you do this.
It's beautiful.
Jess (01:08):
Thank you, we feel very big, like the similar energy
from you two, so I think this isgoing to be a fantastic
conversation.
Colleen Robinson (01:16):
I agree fully.
Jess (01:17):
Yes, so Digital Dojo, let's just get right into it.
I feel like there's abackground that got you two
together.
Do you want to tell us a littlebit of how this?
Dana Pemberton (01:27):
all came to be.
There are so many ways I cantell this story.
One of them is longer and wayfunnier, but that's for another
time.
Colleen Robinson (01:35):
Is that the one that involves you
recognizing me by my butt?
Yes, that's a real thing.
By the way, we can get into itor not if you're interested.
Dana Pemberton (01:45):
I did recognize she's like hey, I know that butt
.
Now, to be fair, his butt wason TV, so Okay, now we need the
story.
Jess (01:52):
A famous butt on TV.
Dana Pemberton (01:53):
I had moved from back east and when I first met
Dana just a great human, likeone of the safest humans I'd
ever met, One of the smartestpeople and wisest people I've
ever known, and he had invited afew of us out.
So a bunch of us had gone outand listened to some music
together and he was verygentlemanly, he opened doors for
me, that sort of thing.
(02:14):
It was lovely.
And in the back of my head Ihave no facial recognition
software.
That's weird that I think thatI know you, because I never
recognize anyone.
But I had watched shows thatwere filmed in Vancouver, BC,
before moving out here and wewere in a restaurant in front of
a whole bunch of people.
At midnight he got up to go tothe loo and as he walked away I
went that's how I know you, Iknow your butt and he just froze
(02:37):
and he turned around and saidthank you, Good response.
And in order to make it so muchbetter, I said no, no, no.
There was an episode of theX-Files and it had a young
sheriff on it and as the sheriffwas climbing up this steep hill
to go check on some terriblething that had happened because
X-Files, the camera zoomed inand I remember thinking at the
(02:57):
time why are you doing that tothis poor actor?
Why are you zooming in on hisbutt?
Colleen Robinson (03:09):
And then I had this moment, which I see why
you're zooming in on his buttlike that was a good choice.
I'm blushing really, turn yourwaves, I'll show you blushing.
Yes, my butt doesn't get talkedabout this much normally
broadcasts.
But it's just, we're justcalling for it.
I love it.
We're just diving in,apparently calling.
Facial recognition software wason the fritz, but her butt
recognition software wasapparently firing on all pistons
.
Jess (03:25):
Yes, we know who to go to, colleen if I need to go.
Ran away from the scene of acrime.
Claude (03:32):
That is pretty impressive.
Colleen Robinson (03:34):
Thank you.
It sort of was the biggesticebreaker in the world actually
, because it just sort of brokeall tensions and pretense.
We just were like, oh yeah, wecan just talk freely now.
Jess (03:42):
Someone screams I know your butt.
I feel like there is noboundary line and she was right.
Colleen Robinson (03:48):
I was like she described the episode and I'm
like, yeah, that was me.
Jess (03:51):
Yeah, you guys have been impressed Then, becoming what
you guys are now.
Dana Pemberton (03:55):
The important part is we got to be friends.
He was working in the filmindustry as an actor and a
stuntman at the time.
I came out here to work in thefilm industry.
Things started to shift.
We ended up dating, we ended uptogether.
And then I just had this moment.
I had developed carpal tunnelsyndrome actually, and I
couldn't keyboard, I couldn'tlift a mug, I couldn't turn a
(04:16):
doorknob and my weird friendsuggested I go see her
acupuncturist, which I'm from asmall town.
That was crazy, but I wasdesperate back then.
So I I had this moment where Iwent.
I didn't realize anything couldaffect this much change this
quickly.
I said I think I need to go tothe book for Chinese medicine
and completely change our livesand this is going to be hard and
(04:38):
long.
He was like yep, open my ownpractice on an integral medicine
, because integral medicine iscombined with Chinese medicine.
It just moves things sobeautifully and so quickly.
And then Dana's been coachingsince he was in high school.
We just expanded and startedincluding his coaching and
everything started moving fasterand just to know like coaching
in martial arts right yes,coaching in martial arts,
(05:00):
coaching sports.
Colleen Robinson (05:01):
I had had a lifelong goal from my childhood
to be play professional football, american football.
I was being coached a lot as anathlete and be and then in turn
coaching other athletes.
And when I was a senior in highschool, I coached the freshman
team for football and wrestlingand track and field.
And then when I was a freshmanin university and college, I
coached, you know, the seniorteam in high school.
Coaching has always been amodel that I've worked with and
(05:23):
have benefited from greatly inmy life in terms of being
coached and then really fallingin love.
Because I was in education aswell, I ended up working as a
high school teacher and thatgave me a great opportunity to
be in that coaching role becauseI knew how valuable being
coached as an athlete was and itjust kind of gained more and
more traction in my life.
When I met Colleen, that wasthe catalyst that pushed it over
(05:44):
into this realm that we're innow.
Dana Pemberton (05:47):
Colleen, can you explain that medicine that
you're doing and how do youcombine together that's an
awesome question, and I don'tget to talk about the Chinese
and internal medicine too muchbecause it's not what we focus
on when we're working in groups.
It's always sort of running inthe background.
Chinese medicine is amazing forpattern finding.
Things make sense in Chinesemedicine that don't in the other
(06:09):
models that I knew.
Anyway, I'm sure there areother models that are amazing.
Integral medicine is whatreally started making me realize
how many possibilities are outthere, because integral medicine
uses quantum physics andneuroanatomy and cellular
biology and all of these thingstogether.
What it means is that you canask a person's nervous system to
(06:30):
self-correct.
It speeds things upexponentially when you say that
it helps speed it up.
Jess (06:35):
Is it something to do with your mind?
Is it something to do more so,with affirmations or elements
that help you think about it andbring it to more of the
forefront?
Or how does that come?
Colleen Robinson (06:46):
about.
It really harnesses the powerof intention.
So affirmations and positivemindset all that sort of stuff
you just like you're right on it.
It's all intention driven andthe awareness of intention and
the power of it is pretty,pretty amazing.
Dana Pemberton (07:01):
And the beautiful thing about
affirmations is the people whodo affirmations and it works for
them.
It works amazingly.
Conscious mind processes 40bits of data per second.
The rest of your brainprocesses 20 million bits of
data per second.
So when you can get that partof your brain online so in
computer terms is a consciousbrain can process about a
postage stamp of information,which makes sense.
(07:21):
If I showed you three stamps inthree seconds and said what was
on them, you could go.
It was a dog and a boat in acabin.
The rest of your brain,meanwhile, each second is
processed to three hour movie Inlike 4k definition.
So when you get that part ofyour brain online with
affirmations for the people thataffirmations work through.
It is amazing for people likeme, because of the way my brain
works.
When I say an affirmation and Igo, you know I am the funniest
(07:45):
person in the world and the backof my brain goes yeah, no, but
remember that time when you didthat thing and it was terrible.
Claude (07:53):
It's me, I think that's everyone.
No, you're doing good.
Colleen Robinson (07:57):
But you resonate with that, claudia, I
get it.
Yes, it really lands with you.
It resonates with you when youthink that.
Dana Pemberton (08:03):
So for the people who like affirmations, I
say keep doing them.
It's an amazing technologyreally.
For me, intentional medicine,integral medicine, is a way to
go in, find the things that areglitching and kind of reset the
breakers.
It's a very gentle thing.
In a lot of ways, it's a verysimple and straightforward thing
, and it allows us to correctthings that our conscious mind
(08:24):
doesn't know how to correct.
So how do you correct it?
Asking for a friend part of howyou correct it, and we brought
integral medicine into nap.
Nap is the new agreementprocess.
It's something that I developedout of one of dana's black belt
mind ideas, and the beautifulthing about it is it started as
like a three page, takes 45minutes to go through things.
Now it's six, seven lines inits most basic form.
(08:46):
What it does is it allows yourbrain to address the yeah buts,
because for me, like for you,claude, it's the yeah buts.
Right, I'm the most hilariousperson in the world.
Yeah, but remember when blah,blah, blah.
This starts with the yeah butsand says here's the reason that
you did the yeah buts, here'swhat reason that you did the
yeah, but here's what makes itokay, here's what makes you not
a terrible person, and it'sstill okay to reset it.
(09:06):
So nap is one of the simplest,most accessible you can do it at
home ways that we have found tobe able to correct all the yeah
but.
Claude (09:13):
So it's actually confronting it and say more or
less why Okay, but you know, ithappens, things happen.
And how do you rewire?
I like that, you need that, Ineed that, me too Me too, I'm
going to hop over to you now.
When did you find out that itwas between both the coaching
and that medicine?
The merriment of the two?
Dana Pemberton (09:33):
The merriment Dana's job is to answer the
complicated questions.
My job is to tell the stories.
So at some point you will ask aquestion that is really hard
and I will do what I always do,which is and say something smart
.
Colleen Robinson (09:44):
Or pick up something heavy.
That's what my other job is.
Dana Pemberton (09:47):
I mean it works.
It was just a normal process ofall the things that we did.
I mean, with the two of you,you just click.
You spend so much time together, everything clicks and then
some part of your brain goes.
Why don't we bring this over toa podcast?
That just makes sense.
And same thing for us, where Iwas just like, yeah, when I'm
teaching these classes, when I'mworking with these people, I
(10:07):
wish you could come talk to themabout this, because when you do
that it's so much easier.
Jess (10:11):
And then we just started doing that is exactly our story,
so thanks for narrating it sosuccinctly.
I love to see that it liketranslates to not just work
besties but to actualsignificant others who then
become work besties.
Claude (10:25):
Yeah, that's right, so you were significant others
first and work besties after,right?
Yeah, that's a big thing,because I don't think I would be
able to work with mysignificant other.
Colleen Robinson (10:39):
Sure.
Claude (10:41):
I totally get that statement.
You know your bond must be sostrong.
Jess (10:47):
We've been working together for a while now, so was
there a hurdle in the beginningto working together that you
had to overcome?
Dana Pemberton (10:56):
I'm going to give the hard questions to Dana
and everybody who's watching andlistening to this.
Do you want to be the talk outof the room?
I swear at some point I'll stoptalking, but this is the fun
part for me.
The amazing thing about this iswe teach communication, we work
with communication and this hasmade us really focus on a
communication.
(11:16):
And the funny part about thatis at one point we were both
working with a woman.
Dana left the room to dosomething and she looked at me
and she said, oh, dana would besuch a good partner for me.
He's amazing.
And I said, yeah, thank you, Iappreciate what you're saying
with that, but I don't think so.
And she goes oh no, no, I knowhe was with you.
And I said oh no, honey, notthat I said this conversation
(11:36):
we're having now, that's lesslike let's dig into all the deep
stuff and get it moving.
And she's like yeah, I saidthat's Tuesday at our house,
that's Tuesday before dinner,that's Tuesday after dinner,
that's Saturday morning.
I said do you want to do thatseven days a week?
And she went no, the realityshowed it.
Claude (11:53):
Yeah, Actually my parents worked together.
Yeah, they did.
My father was an interiorarchitect and my mom was working
for him, assistant right hand,telling him what to do.
Dana Pemberton (12:06):
Yeah, and how did it work?
Claude (12:07):
They really have this big connection.
They were talking a lot work athome too, that's a good point.
Jess (12:13):
How do you guys separate or do you separate your actual
personal life from your workwhen you are now so integrated
in both?
Dana Pemberton (12:22):
You're going to have a nice, smart, wise answer.
My answer is so much of what wedo we love so much it almost
doesn't matter.
And for those other points I dothis.
Can we stop talking about?
Colleen Robinson (12:37):
That's the universal signal that it's time
to stop talking.
What's your answer?
You probably have a betteranswer.
No, that's great.
I was just thinking about thebenefits that we've gained from
being business partners andpartners in life are very
present for both of us becausewe're very aware of the pitfalls
.
We work with individuals, wework with couples, whole
families, professionally andpersonally, corporate teams and
(12:58):
where we've been able toidentify the opportunities that
we have because of the lifestylethat we live comes through
really clearly because there areconversations that we can't
avoid having.
We can't avoid having them aspartners in life, we can't avoid
having them as partners inbusiness.
We have to have thoseconversations.
That's such a valuable thing tobe aware of, and part of the
reason why we got so committedto the idea is because we see
(13:21):
the damage of conversationsavoided yes, avoid each other,
right, and a whole bunch of waysthey can avoid talking about
difficult topics or things thatare really foundational to their
(13:42):
happiness or unhappiness in therelationship dynamic.
As we started to work togethermore and more and more, it
became very apparent to both ofus very quickly the idea of a
conflict delayed is a conflictmultiplied Because we face the
reality of having to have thoseconversations that are hard and
would much rather avoid, but wecouldn't if we're going to be
successful.
(14:02):
We started to figure out waysto lean into that.
We discovered a phrase that weused with each other and then
with other people is that you'vegot to start listening breath
to breath.
You've got to start listeningto each other just moment to
moment.
Forget about getting attachedto what was going on before.
Forget about being anxious andanticipating what's coming.
Slow it down, go piece by pieceand communicate and listen
(14:25):
breath to breath.
That has been the foundation ofanything that we do together
that feels successful to both ofus.
That's amazing.
Jess (14:34):
That makes sense in almost all relationships, right?
You really need to be presentand not avoid those topics and
conversations, whether it isyour significant other, your
child, your work besties.
Because that is what starts toslowly erode the trust and
support.
Claude (14:53):
You got it, it's almost being factual that communication
, and just with the fact andremoving the emotional part
behind it, which is not thateasy it takes us.
Colleen Robinson (15:04):
It takes a level of commitment and
discipline to do that and we'renot really taught how to do that
.
Ever way that we've learned todo it is by doing it really
badly for a while, stumbling andtripping over each other and
getting it wrong.
Right with a commitment to youknow, the overall goal, overall
goal, the overall purpose, thedesire and the inspiration that
says well, this feels like apath that's going to be suitable
(15:26):
for both of us.
No one, there's no rule bookand nobody's showing us how, but
let's just figure it out.
That brings us to reallyunderstanding the difference
between hearing someone andactually listening to them.
There's a very different energy.
It's the identification of sortof two different energies, two
different perspectives, twodifferent approaches.
And if you can recognize thedifference between just hearing
someone and actually listeningto them, then that prospect of
(15:47):
moment to moment, breath tobreath, listening and
communicating gets much lessintimidating.
Jess (15:58):
Dana, what would you say is like the most obvious
difference.
Colleen Robinson (16:00):
So, for people who are confused, what is the
difference between hearing andlistening?
Generally speaking, the waythat we language hearing is
ego-driven okay, and it runs onconfirmation bias.
It's it's selectively cherrypicking the information that's
coming at it because it's goingto use it to be right.
Listening is an energy that'svery much more typically
authentic, self-driven, it'sopen-minded, whereas hearing and
(16:22):
ego-driven hearing isclosed-minded.
Listening is open-mindedbecause the authentic self is
not trying to be right, it'sjust looking for the thing that,
the next thing that feels moretruthful.
And it's super simple way,because under pressure you need
to have things simple or elseyou forget them if they're too
complex.
So one of the things that weteach people to do is to really
(16:45):
differentiate hearing andlistening by one simple metric.
When you're hearing things,there's like a radio in the
background, right, you can tellthere's music playing, but you
don't know the lyrics to thesong or the song that's playing.
When you're listening, it'ssuper corny, but it's easy to
remember.
You're able to list the things.
Listening list the things itmeans that you can tell me if
(17:08):
I've been going.
Oh, jess, cloud, blah, blah,blah, blah.
I'm giving you details.
I'm telling you how I feel whenI pause and have correctly or
listening properly.
You said this is bothering you.
Your shoulder hurts from yourold football injury, you're
scared about the job you got togo do with the presentation for
the company that's new andyou're feeling like you want to
barf Right.
(17:28):
When you can list the thingsyou know you're listening.
Jess (17:31):
It's almost the same as when someone's venting to you
and you have to.
You have to preference theconversation.
Are you looking for solutionsor just to talk?
It's the reverse of that, right, you're coming into it with the
.
Am I listening to like, reactand tell you, or to just be able
to regurgitate back what yousaid?
Colleen Robinson (17:56):
So awesome.
From that perspective, yourecognize that true listening is
a very powerful form ofcommunicating and it's not
passive right.
It requires initiative and itdifferentiates between listening
and speaking.
Right, because people oftenthink oh well, you're speaking,
so it's my turn to listen.
You're initiating, it's my turnto be passive and just receive.
Listening is actually a veryactive, dynamic process.
(18:17):
Why?
Because fundamentally, the waywe communicate best with each
other is when we are alsolistening to ourselves.
So if I'm listening to you andyou're telling me a story, I can
be just hearing you, charlieBrown's teacher, wah, wah, wah,
wah, wah, wah.
I'm just hearing the noise, Ican't list the things.
But if I'm really listening,I'm listening to my own inner
reactions and responses and myenergy is communicating with you
(18:39):
.
Even though my mouth is shut,we're always communicating.
We're always sending signalsand messages back and forth to
each other.
That are indicators, if we'repaying attention, of how I'm
receiving what you're saying.
And then I'm also able tounderstand why it's important
for me to be able to list thethings you've shared, because
it's not just the facts I wantto be able to list.
I me to be able to list thethings you've shared, because
(18:59):
it's not just the facts I wantto be able to list.
I want to be able to list yourfeelings as well you guys know
each other.
Claude (19:09):
It's so funny so.
Dana Pemberton (19:11):
So if I'm going to show off my fabulous french
skills insert, I roll here.
I could say something like J'aiseulement un petit peu de
français, mais j'espère que laprochaine année nous pouvons
avoir une conversation très bien.
(19:32):
Because when now even yourresponse, though, claude, even
your response slowed down, youwere like, yes, because you
could tell from the way that Iwas talking that you were like
that wasn't bad, but you wereworking for that, it wasn't bad
(19:53):
at all.
Even your nonverbal slowed downand you went yeah, as opposed
to if you could hear, you knowthe that that this was just
second nature to me, you wouldhave responded with rapid fire.
So you were actually listening.
You don't need to to list thethings back to me, as in Colleen
.
I heard you say this, but whatyou were reflecting back to me
was Colleen, I heard that you,you did okay, but you're not
(20:21):
going to be able to handle fastin return.
So when we're listening, we'reresponding to the intention and
we're responding at the levelthe person can understand it
with.
Jess (20:26):
That's a game changer.
That was a good example it'sreally awesome.
That example poignantly puts it, because you're most often
doing it when you do speak thesame language and you miss those
context because I have no ideawhat's going on in that
conversation.
So I love that you're sayingrespond in the same manner and
style that they did, becausethat's how well they'll receive
(20:46):
it back too.
Claude (20:47):
And you could see also the way I was receiving also the
conversation.
Dana Pemberton (20:51):
Yeah, and you were being lovely right, you
were receiving it beautifully,you weren't going well, that was
good, good for you.
Jess (21:01):
Or what I do.
I'm like hurry up, hurry up,let's go Sure exactly I've done
that you didn't.
You were very kind and patient.
What You're the kind one.
Dana Pemberton (21:11):
That's the beautiful thing when you do have
two languages is it gets you somuch better practiced at
responding to somebody'sintention rather than actually
what they're doing and sayingand how well they're doing or
saying it.
We do this with kids, where werespond to their intention.
We don't say, yeah, honey,thank you, but you said I have
dinner, rather than can I havedinner, try again tomorrow See
(21:35):
you at breakfast.
Colleen Robinson (21:36):
Don't chew on your sheets too hard, yeah.
Dana Pemberton (21:38):
So if we can give anybody that we're talking
to the same space that we givesomebody in a second language,
that we give to a child who'slearning a second language, it
just gets a lot easier.
Colleen Robinson (21:48):
I think a final sort of point to put on
that that was super smart, goodjob, you're super smart, colleen
was saying.
Is that really?
Just simply remember thatverbal communication is about
10% of how we communicate thewords, they're like sort of the
least important part.
We know that because we cantake the same words in any
language, say them with adifferent emotional intent and
they will communicatedifferently every time.
(22:09):
So, and the simplest phrase, wecan say it with a myriad of
different emotional connectionsto it and it will land with us
in either a really pleasing wayand we'll laugh and it'll be
hilarious, or it could be theexact same words that are
entirely insulting because ofthe energy and intent driving
them.
Exploration and recognition ofthe difference between what
we're calling hearing andlistening is rich with really
(22:31):
valuable real world detailsabout how we actually
communicate and how to do iteffectively, because words
account for about 10%.
It's everything else, what ourbody's doing's doing how our
voice sounds, the energy behindit, the rhythm, the cadence, the
pace, the tonality.
That's where we really that 90of the non-verbal stuff is where
we really communicate and it'salso how, in what kind of mood,
(22:53):
you are receiving it as well andhow you come into the
conversation you mean becausesometimes the other person might
say something but, depending onyour mood, you take it the
wrong way.
Absolutely.
Dana Pemberton (23:08):
Can I give another example?
Years ago we were moving and wehad packed up the entire place,
two-story place.
We packed up every single thing.
There was literally one thingstill in the house and we were
getting ready to go dana's veryblack and white.
And so I said van's outside,everything's packed up.
Can you grab my purple purse?
And we're out of here.
And he looks around thiscompletely empty place, looks at
(23:30):
me and goes do you mean theburgundy purse?
Colleen Robinson (23:33):
I thought I was being helpful, like have you
spoken to each other back then?
That's pretty much what.
Dana Pemberton (23:39):
Yeah, it's amazing that they're pretty much
the same reaction a lot ofwomen have that reaction and,
and, like you were saying, partof my reaction leading into that
was it has been a very long dayand a very long month leading
up to it, and what other pursewould I mean?
So please, yes, give me thedamn purse there's nothing in
(24:00):
the house.
Nothing, because I've assumedall sorts of stuff in the
background.
And then it took a little while.
I'd like to say it took acouple hours, it took a couple
of weeks.
And I said, when you asked meif I meant the burgundy purse,
did you just mean, do you meanthe burgundy purse?
And he went, yeah, what elsewould I have meant?
I said you didn't mean.
Why don't you use the rightcolor, colleen?
Or?
And he was like yeah, and hesaid no, how do I know that you
(24:25):
hadn't brought a purple purse aswell, or burgundy purse, and
left it upstairs?
I don't know.
And when I listened to him,like his, I'm being a smart ass.
Face and voice is definitelydifferent than that face and
voice.
I'm a delight.
I don't have that.
Jess (24:38):
You are a delight he knows you well enough to like at a
day where you're moving.
That is not the time.
But yes, I could totally seethat out of context.
Dana Pemberton (24:46):
You would be like, really, that's that's yeah
, yeah, absolutely, and I thinkthat lands us perfectly in the
place.
Colleen Robinson (24:53):
To touch on one of the big tenets that
colleen took from the black beltline and built a nap upon was
really being clear on thedifference between a reaction
and a response.
And it's really interestingbecause I grew up in a military
household.
I was headed in that directionuntil kind of sports took over
my life and that's where I wasallowed to put that discipline
and commitment.
My father was a fighter pilot.
(25:14):
Everything in his language wasvery exact all the time.
Just as a quick example, as akid I'd be like are you an
insane person?
He's so precise abouteverything.
I'm like you're crazy.
Yeah, too much.
But then, as I got older andlearned to understand his
context and perspective, heshared a story with me where he
(25:35):
said look, when you're walking,if you're two degrees off of
your exact direction, if you'reonly walking at two miles an
hour for 20 minutes, well you'reonly going to end up 30 feet
away from your destination.
So if you're going to yourfriend's house and you're trying
(25:55):
to get to his front door,you're going to walk there at
two miles an hour for 20 minutesand then when you get there,
you're still be able to see.
See the house, but you're gonnabe like 30 feet away from the
door.
And he said, when you're flyinga supersonic jet at 800 miles
an hour, two degrees ofdifference in terms of the
precision of your intent, yourvector, your direction.
That means, instead of bombingthe target that you're supposed
(26:17):
to bomb, you're 800 miles offcourse and you're bombing an
innocent village.
I was like, oh okay, sure thatlesson stuck with me.
Flash forward to thatconversation.
Right, that's the automatic,ingrained, natural context that
I come from Precision exactness.
So I'm thinking my bestoffering is, after this long
(26:43):
draining day where call is tired, I'm tired.
It's been stressful and heavy.
The packing, the two months hasbeen stressful and heavy.
I think, hey, if I make sureit's the right purse and there's
no other purse that I might mixit up with, I'm helping.
Jess (26:54):
You're offering the best you can.
This is going to help her.
I'm helping.
Colleen Robinson (26:56):
You're offering the best you can, best
I've got.
This is going to help her andshe's like Because I was tired
and stressed too, but I wastrying to do the best thing I
could do and understand.
So that brings us to anunderstanding of why we need to
have a good awareness oflistening to ourselves, to
understand the differencebetween our reaction and our
response.
Another principle that wereally work with in our work
(27:16):
individually together, is thattwo things can be valid and true
at the same time.
Jess (27:23):
I feel like I say that a lot, but it's so true.
Two people have very differentperspectives, different
backgrounds, different waysyou're coming into the
conversation, so you both areright.
It's just how you listen andreact absolutely.
Colleen Robinson (27:38):
If we're stuck in uh a, only trying to hear
and only reacting, then one ofus has to lose, one of us has to
be wrong.
If I feel like I'm really trulyright from what I can see,
youth call feels like she'struly really really right from
where she can see, then YvesColl feels like she's truly
really really right from whereshe can see, then we're in a
dwindling spiral of resentmentbecause we're then no, I'm right
(27:58):
, no, I'm right, no, I'm right,no, I'm right.
We can switch that into reallylistening, responding.
We can just find the thing thatfeels more productively true.
Next, well, hey, collie, I getwhere you're coming from.
True.
Next, well, hey, call you, Iget where you're coming from.
I get where you're coming from.
Great, where does that leave us?
Where does that put us?
(28:19):
How can we take those truthsand align them even further, so
that we're not just battlingeach other about who's right or
wrong?
We're not being adversaries,we're being allies in alignment,
trying to find the next bestthing to do?
Jess (28:29):
Based off of that, you probably have to coach people a
lot on how to have that pauseand respect for each other.
It probably is an aha moment,but a little bit easier for
recognizing with somebody you'reclose with.
How do you help coach peoplewith when you're in a work
situation and it's maybe acoworker who you don't have a
(28:52):
personal background with, butyou two always do come at it in
very different perspectives?
Dana Pemberton (28:57):
Great question, jess.
My answer is the way you twoare doing this exactly.
I keep watching.
Every single time either of usspeaks, I can see both of you
actually listening, processingand then deciding you're going
to assume that what we're sayingwe're saying in the best
possible way and leading itforward from then You're not
going.
That actually wasn't funny.
(29:18):
I didn't want to talk aboutwearing glasses.
How rude, right?
You're just assuming the bestintention and you're choosing to
reroute back to what works thebest for the people who are
awesome and come out and listento you.
So my simple answer is doexactly what you two are doing.
I mean, you guys are fabulous.
We have many similar ways ofcommunication to you, but we're
not exactly the same.
(29:38):
You're not going like, oh, wecouldn't possibly talk to you
because you're doing thisdifferently than we would.
Claude (29:42):
If I understand well, it would be like the co-worker
we're not happy or we don'tagree.
Colleen Robinson (29:54):
It's actually listening and with an open, and
that's awesome.
I love that.
Let's tie it right to theconversation here.
Right, really simply treatpeople like they're your bestie,
right, because here's the coolthing, it's just the heaviest
sigh I have ever heard.
Jess (30:04):
Oh, my goodness yeah that's okay.
Dana Pemberton (30:07):
Was that a good side?
A hard, hard side?
That seemed heavy.
Colleen Robinson (30:12):
Yeah, I actually love to hear what's
behind that more than I love tohear my own voice.
If you want to share it, claude, what do you think?
What was?
How did that land for you?
I'm curious what resonated andwhat didn't you?
Jess (30:22):
can say it in front of me, I won't get jealous.
Claude (30:23):
No, it's the opposite.
It must be a lot of work forfor me to talk the same way I
talk to Jess than, for example,a co-worker.
That is completely the opposite.
It's not like a friend, it's alot of work.
To treat everybody like abestie.
Yes, to treat someone withkindness and with respect
(30:48):
Absolutely, but treat me like abestie, that's a lot.
Dana Pemberton (30:52):
Yeah, yeah, I get that A lot of effort or a
lot of trust or a lot of Risk,effort.
Claude (30:59):
Not risk effort yeah yeah.
And it has to be authenticbecause, for example, there's a
co-worker.
I cannot stand.
Colleen Robinson (31:07):
Yes.
Let's say for me I can behelpful, but treating and
talking to them like a bestie isnot as authentic for me.
Sure, I get that totally, andpart of the reason why I framed
it in that way was to use someof the language that we've been
building on already, but also torecognize and maybe the best
(31:28):
way to give you an example iswhen you so, just when you you,
you were asking about yeah well,that's cool when we were doing
it with our bestie, but how dowe do that with someone who's
not our bestie?
Like it's easier with yourbestie, I'm like actually, no,
sometimes it's harder with yourbestie.
Why?
Because the stakes are higher,there's more at risk.
Jess (31:49):
I was going to say the way you responded to that.
Now I feel like I stress youout Because you're like I don't
have the, the.
What was your wording?
Claude (31:58):
It was like no, you're my bestie, I know, but you have
that same level of engagementwith other people.
Jess (32:05):
I'm like, what am I doing?
Claude (32:07):
Oh, it's a no, our, it's a no, our, it's a positive way.
Colleen Robinson (32:14):
Yes.
Claude (32:15):
It might work.
Jess (32:16):
We already have, like we cut through a lot of that red
tape.
Colleen Robinson (32:19):
Yeah.
Claude (32:20):
And also it's like my like, even like physical, yes,
and lean more.
That's why, for me, it's likethis genuine conversation.
Absolutely genuine conversation, talking and and leaning or
whatever versus someone that isnot in that state of
relationship.
I cannot do the same thing, somaybe absolutely your element of
(32:41):
genuine could be differentthough right.
Colleen Robinson (32:43):
I love this so much, genuine, yes, it's so
good, I love this.
I'm telling you, yeah, I, Iwant to keep the wraps on it,
because I could go off on this,because we're alive in an
example like right now.
Maybe a simple way to todifferentiate.
Why I positioned it like thatis because in an ideal
(33:04):
circumstance, claude, you'refeeling good on a day, jess,
you're feeling good on a daythat investment and connection
that you have in each other isfree and it's flowing and it's
easy to give and easy to receiveright.
That's the ideal, that's whatwe always want.
But the more interested andintentful we are to anybody that
we invest in right, the higherthe stakes become.
(33:24):
In other words, that means, yes, there's lots to gain, but at
that level of intimacy, there'smore to lose.
And the reason why that'simportant is is because let's
flip reverse engineer for asecond had a terrible sleep
cloud, had a really awful daybefore, jess, come into working
together, not at your best, notfeeling great, not in a great
mood, not really ready to takeon any other feathers on the
(33:48):
camel's back that might break itright.
We all have those moments onany level of intimacy, of
relationship that has deepintimacy, because that's not
just romantic, that's familial,that's friendship.
Right sometimes, that sameperson who can be your beautiful
I will receive you in all yourworst moments kind of person,
right when you're both in thatplace, you're even more afraid
(34:09):
to approach that person not me,because I'm a delight.
Dana Pemberton (34:13):
Yes, always.
Colleen Robinson (34:14):
Always, just for the record, please don't cut
that part up.
Always a delight, but why I'mbringing that into this
conversation and want to buildawareness around it is because
it's not necessarily the timespent with a person.
That is the only way to createintimacy, like just closeness
and relaxation and freedom.
The thing that allows us tostay in an intimate relationship
(34:35):
, that builds it, is knowingwhen not to take things
personally.
Totally Right, when we extendthat idea and that dynamic to a
coworker, let's say that wedon't like.
And I'm with you, claude,because you were right in the
vein which is, hey, I can treateverybody with dignity, respect,
kindness and give them someroom.
You don't have to have apersonally intimate relationship
(35:00):
with that person in order totreat them like you would treat
your bestie.
And maybe the simplest way tosay it is that there's a big
difference.
We treat love and lovingsomeone more like an action than
an energy.
So what does that mean?
That means I don't actuallyhave to know someone personally
or even at all to be lovingtowards them.
(35:20):
Okay, because if I can beloving towards them and then
they respond to me being lovingto them, but I treat them with
respect, I treat them withdignity.
I treat them like they have aright to occupy space.
I treat them like they have aright to occupy space.
I treat them like they have aright to have a voice.
If I can accept all thosethings and not take them
personally, when they saysomething that makes me react, I
open up space to build theenergy that does really create
(35:42):
real intimacy, which is I get tolike them a little bit because
I was loving to them.
They responded Cool, I'mgetting to know you.
I can't like you if I don'tknow you.
I also can't take thingspersonally from you if I don't
know.
Dana Pemberton (35:54):
I want to see how Claude feels with this, with
the imaginary person shedoesn't like.
Sure Right.
Jess (35:58):
Yes, it's fake, guys Fake.
Claude (36:02):
Ask me for a friend again.
Colleen Robinson (36:05):
We're going to challenge our old way of
thinking, because we're taughtthings that only work under
certain circumstances, andsometimes, when we're not in
those circumstances, then we'relost.
Jess (36:14):
Yeah, I'm curious.
So what's your thinking now?
No, it's true that.
Claude (36:18):
so, for example, when you have this strong
relationship with someone,you'll be more forgiving.
You know where they're comingfrom.
We are not always in a goodmood.
Jess (36:28):
We are whatever Like the last couple of weeks I'm coming
to work in a rough state and yourecognize, yeah, and I'm like
okay, yeah, and it's the sameway.
Claude (36:37):
sometimes I'm like not really want to say a word, but
it happens and you understandwhere it's coming from and you
might take offense at thebeginning but then afterwards,
because we are friends, weactually understand each other
and where we are coming from and, like you say, not take
personally.
When you have someone that youdon't have as much investment
(36:58):
with or affinity sometimes whichis not always good you're not
as flexible.
Colleen Robinson (37:04):
You work so good.
Sometimes all of what you justsaid, claude, flips.
There are times where I couldhear the same thing from 100
different people during the day,but because of my deep personal
connection to colleen and myempathy and compassion for her,
she can say one thing to me, onething, completely innocently,
and I will take it worse andmore personally than anybody
(37:27):
else.
I've heard the same thing fromthat whole day Because she knows
you, so she knows why it hurts.
For sure, absolutely.
Claude (37:37):
She knows the but yes.
Jess (37:39):
She probably would never do that she does.
Colleen Robinson (37:42):
Sorry, you missed the joke.
No, no, if we're going to leaveanything in, please leave it
out, because I'm going to nowuse this as a shorthand for how
we communicate.
I'm like, hey, you know my butt.
Come on, just that simplepossibility.
I can be the most forgiving tocolleen and try to cultivate
(38:02):
that all the time when I'm at mybest and hope that she does
that for me, right?
But I can have really bad dayssometimes, right, and when I
have a really bad day, sometimes, you know, you take it on the
people you love the most, right,it's true.
So those are the areas thatwe're talking about, because,
just like me going, do you meanthe burgundy purse?
And see, these are theconversations that we, that
we've learned to not avoid,right?
(38:22):
I can guarantee you therewasn't a whole lot of
understanding and forgivenessfor calling for me in that
moment.
Not a whole lot.
Why?
Because she's like my god.
You, of anyone on the planet,should know me and know my butt
well enough to recognize thatwas the stupidest thing you
could have said to me in thismoment.
And when we can be honest andauthentic about those moments
(38:45):
and then have conversationsaround those moments, right, the
level of intimacy and trust anddeep listening that's available
is miraculous right, but we'renot taught Now.
This is part of why I'm goingon so much, because I want
people to know that there's roomin places to be authentic, to
communicate clearly, to be heard, to be listened to.
Jess (39:08):
That they never thought possible, dana you bring up a
lot of great topics that, likeanybody, can relate to Work
besties for sure.
What is your area of focus?
How are people finding you guysand coming to you?
Dana Pemberton (39:20):
We started off working a lot with trauma.
People were coming to us almostas the like I've tried
everything else and this is mylast chance.
Whether it's my last chance tonot feel this pain or to have
this problem, or we're going toget a divorce if we don't get
this straightened out, or thecompany's going to collapse.
And one of the exciting thingsabout that is that we get to
start introducing these newconcepts and giving everybody
(39:42):
this space to actually have somepower again.
Oftentimes, with work besties,people will come in and that's
their only ally.
They feel when they go to workand everybody else is insane and
it's wonderful to have thatally.
But we can also feel quiteoverloaded because we feel like
we are powerless.
In that situation, everythingsucks except for you.
We help people with isboundaries, because a lot of
(40:05):
times when people are in worksituations where they only have
the one person who understandsthem, they're spending a lot of
time trying to set boundarieswith everybody else because they
feel so pushed and not listenedto and overwhelmed and so
insignificant compared toeverybody else Resonating really
well with the boundaries,because that's one that I
continue to have to work on.
Jess (40:25):
Love hearing that You're touching on a lot of topics that
people don't even know where togo to.
You want to share maybe howpeople would find you and where,
how to.
You want to share maybe howpeople would find you and where,
how would they be able tointeract with you all.
Dana Pemberton (40:36):
We are on thedigitaldojonet.
We named it before.
We tried to say it five timesquickly because you can't and
you can find links there.
You can find us on YouTube.
We're on YouTube, instagram,facebook, those LinkedIn, and we
want to make sure when peoplecome to the website that there's
something for any angle.
If somebody wants 30 seconds orthree minutes, they can watch
(40:58):
one of the YouTube videos on ourblog.
Or if people want to try alittle something, we've got a
free three-day mindset reset.
It's five minutes a day.
You can do the white belt mindwith Dana's ideas and me
bouncing stuff off of people.
The whole white belt mind isfree.
That's the introduction to theBlack Belt Mind stuff, and then
you can do things up to as muchas like a six or seven week
program, live on Zoom with us.
So there's so many ways in.
Jess (41:19):
And I feel like I saw something that you have a class
coming up.
Tell us details, because maybewe need to sign up.
Colleen Robinson (41:26):
Love to have you?
Dana Pemberton (41:27):
Yes, it's coming in September 18th.
We've got a class called theHappiness Pod, so it's a group
that meets on Thursday nightsonce a week for six weeks and we
work on all the stuff.
We work on happiness, we workon joy, we also work on stress
and anxiety and all the oldpatterns, including inherited
old patterns, that are keepingus from leaning into happiness
(41:47):
and leaning into joy.
Claude (41:48):
So is it mind and body, Because when you talk about, you
know the white belt mind rightaway you're thinking martial art
and everything.
Dana Pemberton (42:00):
So is it like a combination of both?
In theory, we're not going togive you physical exercises to
go home with, because all theblack belt mind stuff we're
taking the lessons from the dojo.
We're not actually saying, andnow throw a punch, this, so it's
.
It's the concept of the rightbelt line to help you.
When we, when we do nap whichis what I tend to lead in the
classes we're clearing out theold patterns that are holding
you back, whether or not youknow what they are.
(42:21):
And then, because you don'thave to know what they are,
that's the point of of workingin a group and you can get some
limbic resonance and some limbicrevision happening, which is
really cool neuroscience stuffthat allows your brain to change
without you having to work atit.
Then the Black Belt Mind stuffgives people a new framework
that you can choose to lead youforward.
That's awesome, that is so cool.
Claude (42:39):
If people are interested in that class, do they go to
your website and register.
Dana Pemberton (42:44):
Yeah, they can go to thedigitaldojonet.
Then you'll see somethingcalled a NAP pod as one of the
options there, and the pods arethese groups where we all work
together.
Jess (42:55):
Thank you.
So we do have one finalquestion what's one small shift
someone can make today to feelmore empowered, aligned and at
peace?
Dana Pemberton (43:04):
I'm blatantly stealing from Dana's Black Belt
Mind stuff because I have alwayshated boundaries.
I suck at boundaries.
I used to take classes and thenI'd try to do it and it was
exhausting.
And then in class one day, danastarts talking about standards
versus boundaries and I was justnodding as if I knew what he
was talking about.
Meanwhile I'm madly takingnotes.
This is awesome.
(43:27):
So we swap out boundaries forstandards.
So boundaries are something wedecide on that we try to enforce
on other people.
So every time somebody doesn'tdo it, we let them know and then
we have to manage theirreaction about how they let us
down.
It's a lot of work.
Standard says this is whatmatters to me and I'm going to
act as if it matters to me.
And if you don't respect thatand act as if it matters to you,
(43:49):
that's okay.
I get to choose how we interactfrom now on based on whether or
not you're meeting my standards.
You don't even have to tellthem that, you just start to act
accordingly.
I spend so much more timetrying to police other people
and more time just going.
You're respecting me.
I would love to give you moretime and attention.
And this person gets a verypolite, respectful short answer,
(44:11):
because they're not.
Jess (44:12):
I will take that right now .
Colleen Robinson (44:18):
Awesome.
Love it, Josh, Love it oh.
Jess (44:20):
Colleen and Dana.
This has been amazing.
We so appreciate you guys beingon.
I feel like what I took awayfrom this is working on yourself
and all these differentelements.
It doesn't have to be heavy.
It does come back down to justtaking that pause and thinking
and listening and feeling moregrounded because of it.
Thank you for sharing that.
Claude (44:38):
Thank you and work besties.
If you enjoyed as much as wedid, please make sure to click
subscribe and like this episode.
Forward it to your work bestieas well.
And don't forget september 18th.
Jess (44:53):
There's a great class ready for you and tell us if
you're going to be on it.
Maybe it'll convince claude andI to join too.
We'd love some of you workbestie community yes thank you
and see you next week.
Claude (45:07):
Thank you again, colin and dana.
Dana Pemberton (45:09):
Thank you both so much.
Fabulous people put good intothe world.
Colleen Robinson (45:12):
Thanks for being wonderful responders and
listeners and treating us likebesties.
Jess (45:16):
Remember whether you're swapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings or just sending
that perfectly timed meme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
squad.
Claude (45:29):
So keep lifting each other, laughing through the
chaos and, of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Work besties.
What do martial arts, trauma healing and leadership
coaching all have in common?
Well, according to today'sguest, everything.
We're joined today by ColleenRobinson and Dana Pemberton,
founders of the Digital Dojo andthe Black Belt Mind.
Claude (00:14):
They've helped everyone, from individuals in crisis to
corporate teams realign, releaseand rise.
Jess (00:21):
Whether you're feeling stuck, overwhelmed or ready to
reclaim your power, this episodehas something for you.
Claude (00:29):
And stay with us.
We'll tell you how to accessthe free white belt mind
framework that could help youshift today.
Hi, I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night and
work besties for life.
Jess (00:45):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry Work besties WelcomeDana and Colleen.
We're so excited to have youguys.
Dana Pemberton (01:00):
Thank you, we've been looking forward to this.
Colleen Robinson (01:02):
Yes, we have Thanks for having us.
Dana Pemberton (01:04):
We're excited to be here we love the feel of how
you do this.
It's beautiful.
Jess (01:08):
Thank you, we feel very big, like the similar energy
from you two, so I think this isgoing to be a fantastic
conversation.
Colleen Robinson (01:16):
I agree fully.
Jess (01:17):
Yes, so Digital Dojo, let's just get right into it.
I feel like there's abackground that got you two
together.
Do you want to tell us a littlebit of how this?
Dana Pemberton (01:27):
all came to be.
There are so many ways I cantell this story.
One of them is longer and wayfunnier, but that's for another
time.
Colleen Robinson (01:35):
Is that the one that involves you
recognizing me by my butt?
Yes, that's a real thing.
By the way, we can get into itor not if you're interested.
Dana Pemberton (01:45):
I did recognize she's like hey, I know that butt
.
Now, to be fair, his butt wason TV, so Okay, now we need the
story.
Jess (01:52):
A famous butt on TV.
Dana Pemberton (01:53):
I had moved from back east and when I first met
Dana just a great human, likeone of the safest humans I'd
ever met, One of the smartestpeople and wisest people I've
ever known, and he had invited afew of us out.
So a bunch of us had gone outand listened to some music
together and he was verygentlemanly, he opened doors for
me, that sort of thing.
(02:14):
It was lovely.
And in the back of my head Ihave no facial recognition
software.
That's weird that I think thatI know you, because I never
recognize anyone.
But I had watched shows thatwere filmed in Vancouver, BC,
before moving out here and wewere in a restaurant in front of
a whole bunch of people.
At midnight he got up to go tothe loo and as he walked away I
went that's how I know you, Iknow your butt and he just froze
(02:37):
and he turned around and saidthank you, Good response.
And in order to make it so muchbetter, I said no, no, no.
There was an episode of theX-Files and it had a young
sheriff on it and as the sheriffwas climbing up this steep hill
to go check on some terriblething that had happened because
X-Files, the camera zoomed inand I remember thinking at the
(02:57):
time why are you doing that tothis poor actor?
Why are you zooming in on hisbutt?
Colleen Robinson (03:09):
And then I had this moment, which I see why
you're zooming in on his buttlike that was a good choice.
I'm blushing really, turn yourwaves, I'll show you blushing.
Yes, my butt doesn't get talkedabout this much normally
broadcasts.
But it's just, we're justcalling for it.
I love it.
We're just diving in,apparently calling.
Facial recognition software wason the fritz, but her butt
recognition software wasapparently firing on all pistons
.
Jess (03:25):
Yes, we know who to go to, colleen if I need to go.
Ran away from the scene of acrime.
Claude (03:32):
That is pretty impressive.
Colleen Robinson (03:34):
Thank you.
It sort of was the biggesticebreaker in the world actually
, because it just sort of brokeall tensions and pretense.
We just were like, oh yeah, wecan just talk freely now.
Jess (03:42):
Someone screams I know your butt.
I feel like there is noboundary line and she was right.
Colleen Robinson (03:48):
I was like she described the episode and I'm
like, yeah, that was me.
Jess (03:51):
Yeah, you guys have been impressed Then, becoming what
you guys are now.
Dana Pemberton (03:55):
The important part is we got to be friends.
He was working in the filmindustry as an actor and a
stuntman at the time.
I came out here to work in thefilm industry.
Things started to shift.
We ended up dating, we ended uptogether.
And then I just had this moment.
I had developed carpal tunnelsyndrome actually, and I
couldn't keyboard, I couldn'tlift a mug, I couldn't turn a
(04:16):
doorknob and my weird friendsuggested I go see her
acupuncturist, which I'm from asmall town.
That was crazy, but I wasdesperate back then.
So I I had this moment where Iwent.
I didn't realize anything couldaffect this much change this
quickly.
I said I think I need to go tothe book for Chinese medicine
and completely change our livesand this is going to be hard and
(04:38):
long.
He was like yep, open my ownpractice on an integral medicine
, because integral medicine iscombined with Chinese medicine.
It just moves things sobeautifully and so quickly.
And then Dana's been coachingsince he was in high school.
We just expanded and startedincluding his coaching and
everything started moving fasterand just to know like coaching
in martial arts right yes,coaching in martial arts,
(05:00):
coaching sports.
Colleen Robinson (05:01):
I had had a lifelong goal from my childhood
to be play professional football, american football.
I was being coached a lot as anathlete and be and then in turn
coaching other athletes.
And when I was a senior in highschool, I coached the freshman
team for football and wrestlingand track and field.
And then when I was a freshmanin university and college, I
coached, you know, the seniorteam in high school.
Coaching has always been amodel that I've worked with and
(05:23):
have benefited from greatly inmy life in terms of being
coached and then really fallingin love.
Because I was in education aswell, I ended up working as a
high school teacher and thatgave me a great opportunity to
be in that coaching role becauseI knew how valuable being
coached as an athlete was and itjust kind of gained more and
more traction in my life.
When I met Colleen, that wasthe catalyst that pushed it over
(05:44):
into this realm that we're innow.
Dana Pemberton (05:47):
Colleen, can you explain that medicine that
you're doing and how do youcombine together that's an
awesome question, and I don'tget to talk about the Chinese
and internal medicine too muchbecause it's not what we focus
on when we're working in groups.
It's always sort of running inthe background.
Chinese medicine is amazing forpattern finding.
Things make sense in Chinesemedicine that don't in the other
(06:09):
models that I knew.
Anyway, I'm sure there areother models that are amazing.
Integral medicine is whatreally started making me realize
how many possibilities are outthere, because integral medicine
uses quantum physics andneuroanatomy and cellular
biology and all of these thingstogether.
What it means is that you canask a person's nervous system to
(06:30):
self-correct.
It speeds things upexponentially when you say that
it helps speed it up.
Jess (06:35):
Is it something to do with your mind?
Is it something to do more so,with affirmations or elements
that help you think about it andbring it to more of the
forefront?
Or how does that come?
Colleen Robinson (06:46):
about.
It really harnesses the powerof intention.
So affirmations and positivemindset all that sort of stuff
you just like you're right on it.
It's all intention driven andthe awareness of intention and
the power of it is pretty,pretty amazing.
Dana Pemberton (07:01):
And the beautiful thing about
affirmations is the people whodo affirmations and it works for
them.
It works amazingly.
Conscious mind processes 40bits of data per second.
The rest of your brainprocesses 20 million bits of
data per second.
So when you can get that partof your brain online so in
computer terms is a consciousbrain can process about a
postage stamp of information,which makes sense.
(07:21):
If I showed you three stamps inthree seconds and said what was
on them, you could go.
It was a dog and a boat in acabin.
The rest of your brain,meanwhile, each second is
processed to three hour movie Inlike 4k definition.
So when you get that part ofyour brain online with
affirmations for the people thataffirmations work through.
It is amazing for people likeme, because of the way my brain
works.
When I say an affirmation and Igo, you know I am the funniest
(07:45):
person in the world and the backof my brain goes yeah, no, but
remember that time when you didthat thing and it was terrible.
Claude (07:53):
It's me, I think that's everyone.
No, you're doing good.
Colleen Robinson (07:57):
But you resonate with that, claudia, I
get it.
Yes, it really lands with you.
It resonates with you when youthink that.
Dana Pemberton (08:03):
So for the people who like affirmations, I
say keep doing them.
It's an amazing technologyreally.
For me, intentional medicine,integral medicine, is a way to
go in, find the things that areglitching and kind of reset the
breakers.
It's a very gentle thing.
In a lot of ways, it's a verysimple and straightforward thing
, and it allows us to correctthings that our conscious mind
(08:24):
doesn't know how to correct.
So how do you correct it?
Asking for a friend part of howyou correct it, and we brought
integral medicine into nap.
Nap is the new agreementprocess.
It's something that I developedout of one of dana's black belt
mind ideas, and the beautifulthing about it is it started as
like a three page, takes 45minutes to go through things.
Now it's six, seven lines inits most basic form.
(08:46):
What it does is it allows yourbrain to address the yeah buts,
because for me, like for you,claude, it's the yeah buts.
Right, I'm the most hilariousperson in the world.
Yeah, but remember when blah,blah, blah.
This starts with the yeah butsand says here's the reason that
you did the yeah buts, here'swhat reason that you did the
yeah, but here's what makes itokay, here's what makes you not
a terrible person, and it'sstill okay to reset it.
(09:06):
So nap is one of the simplest,most accessible you can do it at
home ways that we have found tobe able to correct all the yeah
but.
Claude (09:13):
So it's actually confronting it and say more or
less why Okay, but you know, ithappens, things happen.
And how do you rewire?
I like that, you need that, Ineed that, me too Me too, I'm
going to hop over to you now.
When did you find out that itwas between both the coaching
and that medicine?
The merriment of the two?
Dana Pemberton (09:33):
The merriment Dana's job is to answer the
complicated questions.
My job is to tell the stories.
So at some point you will ask aquestion that is really hard
and I will do what I always do,which is and say something smart
.
Colleen Robinson (09:44):
Or pick up something heavy.
That's what my other job is.
Dana Pemberton (09:47):
I mean it works.
It was just a normal process ofall the things that we did.
I mean, with the two of you,you just click.
You spend so much time together, everything clicks and then
some part of your brain goes.
Why don't we bring this over toa podcast?
That just makes sense.
And same thing for us, where Iwas just like, yeah, when I'm
teaching these classes, when I'mworking with these people, I
(10:07):
wish you could come talk to themabout this, because when you do
that it's so much easier.
Jess (10:11):
And then we just started doing that is exactly our story,
so thanks for narrating it sosuccinctly.
I love to see that it liketranslates to not just work
besties but to actualsignificant others who then
become work besties.
Claude (10:25):
Yeah, that's right, so you were significant others
first and work besties after,right?
Yeah, that's a big thing,because I don't think I would be
able to work with mysignificant other.
Colleen Robinson (10:39):
Sure.
Claude (10:41):
I totally get that statement.
You know your bond must be sostrong.
Jess (10:47):
We've been working together for a while now, so was
there a hurdle in the beginningto working together that you
had to overcome?
Dana Pemberton (10:56):
I'm going to give the hard questions to Dana
and everybody who's watching andlistening to this.
Do you want to be the talk outof the room?
I swear at some point I'll stoptalking, but this is the fun
part for me.
The amazing thing about this iswe teach communication, we work
with communication and this hasmade us really focus on a
communication.
(11:16):
And the funny part about thatis at one point we were both
working with a woman.
Dana left the room to dosomething and she looked at me
and she said, oh, dana would besuch a good partner for me.
He's amazing.
And I said, yeah, thank you, Iappreciate what you're saying
with that, but I don't think so.
And she goes oh no, no, I knowhe was with you.
And I said oh no, honey, notthat I said this conversation
(11:36):
we're having now, that's lesslike let's dig into all the deep
stuff and get it moving.
And she's like yeah, I saidthat's Tuesday at our house,
that's Tuesday before dinner,that's Tuesday after dinner,
that's Saturday morning.
I said do you want to do thatseven days a week?
And she went no, the realityshowed it.
Claude (11:53):
Yeah, Actually my parents worked together.
Yeah, they did.
My father was an interiorarchitect and my mom was working
for him, assistant right hand,telling him what to do.
Dana Pemberton (12:06):
Yeah, and how did it work?
Claude (12:07):
They really have this big connection.
They were talking a lot work athome too, that's a good point.
Jess (12:13):
How do you guys separate or do you separate your actual
personal life from your workwhen you are now so integrated
in both?
Dana Pemberton (12:22):
You're going to have a nice, smart, wise answer.
My answer is so much of what wedo we love so much it almost
doesn't matter.
And for those other points I dothis.
Can we stop talking about?
Colleen Robinson (12:37):
That's the universal signal that it's time
to stop talking.
What's your answer?
You probably have a betteranswer.
No, that's great.
I was just thinking about thebenefits that we've gained from
being business partners andpartners in life are very
present for both of us becausewe're very aware of the pitfalls
.
We work with individuals, wework with couples, whole
families, professionally andpersonally, corporate teams and
(12:58):
where we've been able toidentify the opportunities that
we have because of the lifestylethat we live comes through
really clearly because there areconversations that we can't
avoid having.
We can't avoid having them aspartners in life, we can't avoid
having them as partners inbusiness.
We have to have thoseconversations.
That's such a valuable thing tobe aware of, and part of the
reason why we got so committedto the idea is because we see
(13:21):
the damage of conversationsavoided yes, avoid each other,
right, and a whole bunch of waysthey can avoid talking about
difficult topics or things thatare really foundational to their
(13:42):
happiness or unhappiness in therelationship dynamic.
As we started to work togethermore and more and more, it
became very apparent to both ofus very quickly the idea of a
conflict delayed is a conflictmultiplied Because we face the
reality of having to have thoseconversations that are hard and
would much rather avoid, but wecouldn't if we're going to be
successful.
(14:02):
We started to figure out waysto lean into that.
We discovered a phrase that weused with each other and then
with other people is that you'vegot to start listening breath
to breath.
You've got to start listeningto each other just moment to
moment.
Forget about getting attachedto what was going on before.
Forget about being anxious andanticipating what's coming.
Slow it down, go piece by pieceand communicate and listen
(14:25):
breath to breath.
That has been the foundation ofanything that we do together
that feels successful to both ofus.
That's amazing.
Jess (14:34):
That makes sense in almost all relationships, right?
You really need to be presentand not avoid those topics and
conversations, whether it isyour significant other, your
child, your work besties.
Because that is what starts toslowly erode the trust and
support.
Claude (14:53):
You got it, it's almost being factual that communication
, and just with the fact andremoving the emotional part
behind it, which is not thateasy it takes us.
Colleen Robinson (15:04):
It takes a level of commitment and
discipline to do that and we'renot really taught how to do that
.
Ever way that we've learned todo it is by doing it really
badly for a while, stumbling andtripping over each other and
getting it wrong.
Right with a commitment to youknow, the overall goal, overall
goal, the overall purpose, thedesire and the inspiration that
says well, this feels like apath that's going to be suitable
(15:26):
for both of us.
No one, there's no rule bookand nobody's showing us how, but
let's just figure it out.
That brings us to reallyunderstanding the difference
between hearing someone andactually listening to them.
There's a very different energy.
It's the identification of sortof two different energies, two
different perspectives, twodifferent approaches.
And if you can recognize thedifference between just hearing
someone and actually listeningto them, then that prospect of
(15:47):
moment to moment, breath tobreath, listening and
communicating gets much lessintimidating.
Jess (15:58):
Dana, what would you say is like the most obvious
difference.
Colleen Robinson (16:00):
So, for people who are confused, what is the
difference between hearing andlistening?
Generally speaking, the waythat we language hearing is
ego-driven okay, and it runs onconfirmation bias.
It's it's selectively cherrypicking the information that's
coming at it because it's goingto use it to be right.
Listening is an energy that'svery much more typically
authentic, self-driven, it'sopen-minded, whereas hearing and
(16:22):
ego-driven hearing isclosed-minded.
Listening is open-mindedbecause the authentic self is
not trying to be right, it'sjust looking for the thing that,
the next thing that feels moretruthful.
And it's super simple way,because under pressure you need
to have things simple or elseyou forget them if they're too
complex.
So one of the things that weteach people to do is to really
(16:45):
differentiate hearing andlistening by one simple metric.
When you're hearing things,there's like a radio in the
background, right, you can tellthere's music playing, but you
don't know the lyrics to thesong or the song that's playing.
When you're listening, it'ssuper corny, but it's easy to
remember.
You're able to list the things.
Listening list the things itmeans that you can tell me if
(17:08):
I've been going.
Oh, jess, cloud, blah, blah,blah, blah.
I'm giving you details.
I'm telling you how I feel whenI pause and have correctly or
listening properly.
You said this is bothering you.
Your shoulder hurts from yourold football injury, you're
scared about the job you got togo do with the presentation for
the company that's new andyou're feeling like you want to
barf Right.
(17:28):
When you can list the thingsyou know you're listening.
Jess (17:31):
It's almost the same as when someone's venting to you
and you have to.
You have to preference theconversation.
Are you looking for solutionsor just to talk?
It's the reverse of that, right, you're coming into it with the
.
Am I listening to like, reactand tell you, or to just be able
to regurgitate back what yousaid?
Colleen Robinson (17:56):
So awesome.
From that perspective, yourecognize that true listening is
a very powerful form ofcommunicating and it's not
passive right.
It requires initiative and itdifferentiates between listening
and speaking.
Right, because people oftenthink oh well, you're speaking,
so it's my turn to listen.
You're initiating, it's my turnto be passive and just receive.
Listening is actually a veryactive, dynamic process.
(18:17):
Why?
Because fundamentally, the waywe communicate best with each
other is when we are alsolistening to ourselves.
So if I'm listening to you andyou're telling me a story, I can
be just hearing you, charlieBrown's teacher, wah, wah, wah,
wah, wah, wah.
I'm just hearing the noise, Ican't list the things.
But if I'm really listening,I'm listening to my own inner
reactions and responses and myenergy is communicating with you
(18:39):
.
Even though my mouth is shut,we're always communicating.
We're always sending signalsand messages back and forth to
each other.
That are indicators, if we'repaying attention, of how I'm
receiving what you're saying.
And then I'm also able tounderstand why it's important
for me to be able to list thethings you've shared, because
it's not just the facts I wantto be able to list.
I me to be able to list thethings you've shared, because
(18:59):
it's not just the facts I wantto be able to list.
I want to be able to list yourfeelings as well you guys know
each other.
Claude (19:09):
It's so funny so.
Dana Pemberton (19:11):
So if I'm going to show off my fabulous french
skills insert, I roll here.
I could say something like J'aiseulement un petit peu de
français, mais j'espère que laprochaine année nous pouvons
avoir une conversation très bien.
(19:32):
Because when now even yourresponse, though, claude, even
your response slowed down, youwere like, yes, because you
could tell from the way that Iwas talking that you were like
that wasn't bad, but you wereworking for that, it wasn't bad
(19:53):
at all.
Even your nonverbal slowed downand you went yeah, as opposed
to if you could hear, you knowthe that that this was just
second nature to me, you wouldhave responded with rapid fire.
So you were actually listening.
You don't need to to list thethings back to me, as in Colleen
.
I heard you say this, but whatyou were reflecting back to me
was Colleen, I heard that you,you did okay, but you're not
(20:21):
going to be able to handle fastin return.
So when we're listening, we'reresponding to the intention and
we're responding at the levelthe person can understand it
with.
Jess (20:26):
That's a game changer.
That was a good example it'sreally awesome.
That example poignantly puts it, because you're most often
doing it when you do speak thesame language and you miss those
context because I have no ideawhat's going on in that
conversation.
So I love that you're sayingrespond in the same manner and
style that they did, becausethat's how well they'll receive
(20:46):
it back too.
Claude (20:47):
And you could see also the way I was receiving also the
conversation.
Dana Pemberton (20:51):
Yeah, and you were being lovely right, you
were receiving it beautifully,you weren't going well, that was
good, good for you.
Jess (21:01):
Or what I do.
I'm like hurry up, hurry up,let's go Sure exactly I've done
that you didn't.
You were very kind and patient.
What You're the kind one.
Dana Pemberton (21:11):
That's the beautiful thing when you do have
two languages is it gets you somuch better practiced at
responding to somebody'sintention rather than actually
what they're doing and sayingand how well they're doing or
saying it.
We do this with kids, where werespond to their intention.
We don't say, yeah, honey,thank you, but you said I have
dinner, rather than can I havedinner, try again tomorrow See
(21:35):
you at breakfast.
Colleen Robinson (21:36):
Don't chew on your sheets too hard, yeah.
Dana Pemberton (21:38):
So if we can give anybody that we're talking
to the same space that we givesomebody in a second language,
that we give to a child who'slearning a second language, it
just gets a lot easier.
Colleen Robinson (21:48):
I think a final sort of point to put on
that that was super smart, goodjob, you're super smart, colleen
was saying.
Is that really?
Just simply remember thatverbal communication is about
10% of how we communicate thewords, they're like sort of the
least important part.
We know that because we cantake the same words in any
language, say them with adifferent emotional intent and
they will communicatedifferently every time.
(22:09):
So, and the simplest phrase, wecan say it with a myriad of
different emotional connectionsto it and it will land with us
in either a really pleasing wayand we'll laugh and it'll be
hilarious, or it could be theexact same words that are
entirely insulting because ofthe energy and intent driving
them.
Exploration and recognition ofthe difference between what
we're calling hearing andlistening is rich with really
(22:31):
valuable real world detailsabout how we actually
communicate and how to do iteffectively, because words
account for about 10%.
It's everything else, what ourbody's doing's doing how our
voice sounds, the energy behindit, the rhythm, the cadence, the
pace, the tonality.
That's where we really that 90of the non-verbal stuff is where
we really communicate and it'salso how, in what kind of mood,
(22:53):
you are receiving it as well andhow you come into the
conversation you mean becausesometimes the other person might
say something but, depending onyour mood, you take it the
wrong way.
Absolutely.
Dana Pemberton (23:08):
Can I give another example?
Years ago we were moving and wehad packed up the entire place,
two-story place.
We packed up every single thing.
There was literally one thingstill in the house and we were
getting ready to go dana's veryblack and white.
And so I said van's outside,everything's packed up.
Can you grab my purple purse?
And we're out of here.
And he looks around thiscompletely empty place, looks at
(23:30):
me and goes do you mean theburgundy purse?
Colleen Robinson (23:33):
I thought I was being helpful, like have you
spoken to each other back then?
That's pretty much what.
Dana Pemberton (23:39):
Yeah, it's amazing that they're pretty much
the same reaction a lot ofwomen have that reaction and,
and, like you were saying, partof my reaction leading into that
was it has been a very long dayand a very long month leading
up to it, and what other pursewould I mean?
So please, yes, give me thedamn purse there's nothing in
(24:00):
the house.
Nothing, because I've assumedall sorts of stuff in the
background.
And then it took a little while.
I'd like to say it took acouple hours, it took a couple
of weeks.
And I said, when you asked meif I meant the burgundy purse,
did you just mean, do you meanthe burgundy purse?
And he went, yeah, what elsewould I have meant?
I said you didn't mean.
Why don't you use the rightcolor, colleen?
Or?
And he was like yeah, and hesaid no, how do I know that you
(24:25):
hadn't brought a purple purse aswell, or burgundy purse, and
left it upstairs?
I don't know.
And when I listened to him,like his, I'm being a smart ass.
Face and voice is definitelydifferent than that face and
voice.
I'm a delight.
I don't have that.
Jess (24:38):
You are a delight he knows you well enough to like at a
day where you're moving.
That is not the time.
But yes, I could totally seethat out of context.
Dana Pemberton (24:46):
You would be like, really, that's that's yeah
, yeah, absolutely, and I thinkthat lands us perfectly in the
place.
Colleen Robinson (24:53):
To touch on one of the big tenets that
colleen took from the black beltline and built a nap upon was
really being clear on thedifference between a reaction
and a response.
And it's really interestingbecause I grew up in a military
household.
I was headed in that directionuntil kind of sports took over
my life and that's where I wasallowed to put that discipline
and commitment.
My father was a fighter pilot.
(25:14):
Everything in his language wasvery exact all the time.
Just as a quick example, as akid I'd be like are you an
insane person?
He's so precise abouteverything.
I'm like you're crazy.
Yeah, too much.
But then, as I got older andlearned to understand his
context and perspective, heshared a story with me where he
(25:35):
said look, when you're walking,if you're two degrees off of
your exact direction, if you'reonly walking at two miles an
hour for 20 minutes, well you'reonly going to end up 30 feet
away from your destination.
So if you're going to yourfriend's house and you're trying
(25:55):
to get to his front door,you're going to walk there at
two miles an hour for 20 minutesand then when you get there,
you're still be able to see.
See the house, but you're gonnabe like 30 feet away from the
door.
And he said, when you're flyinga supersonic jet at 800 miles
an hour, two degrees ofdifference in terms of the
precision of your intent, yourvector, your direction.
That means, instead of bombingthe target that you're supposed
(26:17):
to bomb, you're 800 miles offcourse and you're bombing an
innocent village.
I was like, oh okay, sure thatlesson stuck with me.
Flash forward to thatconversation.
Right, that's the automatic,ingrained, natural context that
I come from Precision exactness.
So I'm thinking my bestoffering is, after this long
(26:43):
draining day where call is tired, I'm tired.
It's been stressful and heavy.
The packing, the two months hasbeen stressful and heavy.
I think, hey, if I make sureit's the right purse and there's
no other purse that I might mixit up with, I'm helping.
Jess (26:54):
You're offering the best you can.
This is going to help her.
I'm helping.
Colleen Robinson (26:56):
You're offering the best you can, best
I've got.
This is going to help her andshe's like Because I was tired
and stressed too, but I wastrying to do the best thing I
could do and understand.
So that brings us to anunderstanding of why we need to
have a good awareness oflistening to ourselves, to
understand the differencebetween our reaction and our
response.
Another principle that wereally work with in our work
(27:16):
individually together, is thattwo things can be valid and true
at the same time.
Jess (27:23):
I feel like I say that a lot, but it's so true.
Two people have very differentperspectives, different
backgrounds, different waysyou're coming into the
conversation, so you both areright.
It's just how you listen andreact absolutely.
Colleen Robinson (27:38):
If we're stuck in uh a, only trying to hear
and only reacting, then one ofus has to lose, one of us has to
be wrong.
If I feel like I'm really trulyright from what I can see,
youth call feels like she'struly really really right from
where she can see, then YvesColl feels like she's truly
really really right from whereshe can see, then we're in a
dwindling spiral of resentmentbecause we're then no, I'm right
(27:58):
, no, I'm right, no, I'm right,no, I'm right.
We can switch that into reallylistening, responding.
We can just find the thing thatfeels more productively true.
Next, well, hey, collie, I getwhere you're coming from.
True.
Next, well, hey, call you, Iget where you're coming from.
I get where you're coming from.
Great, where does that leave us?
Where does that put us?
(28:19):
How can we take those truthsand align them even further, so
that we're not just battlingeach other about who's right or
wrong?
We're not being adversaries,we're being allies in alignment,
trying to find the next bestthing to do?
Jess (28:29):
Based off of that, you probably have to coach people a
lot on how to have that pauseand respect for each other.
It probably is an aha moment,but a little bit easier for
recognizing with somebody you'reclose with.
How do you help coach peoplewith when you're in a work
situation and it's maybe acoworker who you don't have a
(28:52):
personal background with, butyou two always do come at it in
very different perspectives?
Dana Pemberton (28:57):
Great question, jess.
My answer is the way you twoare doing this exactly.
I keep watching.
Every single time either of usspeaks, I can see both of you
actually listening, processingand then deciding you're going
to assume that what we're sayingwe're saying in the best
possible way and leading itforward from then You're not
going.
That actually wasn't funny.
(29:18):
I didn't want to talk aboutwearing glasses.
How rude, right?
You're just assuming the bestintention and you're choosing to
reroute back to what works thebest for the people who are
awesome and come out and listento you.
So my simple answer is doexactly what you two are doing.
I mean, you guys are fabulous.
We have many similar ways ofcommunication to you, but we're
not exactly the same.
(29:38):
You're not going like, oh, wecouldn't possibly talk to you
because you're doing thisdifferently than we would.
Claude (29:42):
If I understand well, it would be like the co-worker
we're not happy or we don'tagree.
Colleen Robinson (29:54):
It's actually listening and with an open, and
that's awesome.
I love that.
Let's tie it right to theconversation here.
Right, really simply treatpeople like they're your bestie,
right, because here's the coolthing, it's just the heaviest
sigh I have ever heard.
Jess (30:04):
Oh, my goodness yeah that's okay.
Dana Pemberton (30:07):
Was that a good side?
A hard, hard side?
That seemed heavy.
Colleen Robinson (30:12):
Yeah, I actually love to hear what's
behind that more than I love tohear my own voice.
If you want to share it, claude, what do you think?
What was?
How did that land for you?
I'm curious what resonated andwhat didn't you?
Jess (30:22):
can say it in front of me, I won't get jealous.
Claude (30:23):
No, it's the opposite.
It must be a lot of work forfor me to talk the same way I
talk to Jess than, for example,a co-worker.
That is completely the opposite.
It's not like a friend, it's alot of work.
To treat everybody like abestie.
Yes, to treat someone withkindness and with respect
(30:48):
Absolutely, but treat me like abestie, that's a lot.
Dana Pemberton (30:52):
Yeah, yeah, I get that A lot of effort or a
lot of trust or a lot of Risk,effort.
Claude (30:59):
Not risk effort yeah yeah.
And it has to be authenticbecause, for example, there's a
co-worker.
I cannot stand.
Colleen Robinson (31:07):
Yes.
Let's say for me I can behelpful, but treating and
talking to them like a bestie isnot as authentic for me.
Sure, I get that totally, andpart of the reason why I framed
it in that way was to use someof the language that we've been
building on already, but also torecognize and maybe the best
(31:28):
way to give you an example iswhen you so, just when you you,
you were asking about yeah well,that's cool when we were doing
it with our bestie, but how dowe do that with someone who's
not our bestie?
Like it's easier with yourbestie, I'm like actually, no,
sometimes it's harder with yourbestie.
Why?
Because the stakes are higher,there's more at risk.
Jess (31:49):
I was going to say the way you responded to that.
Now I feel like I stress youout Because you're like I don't
have the, the.
What was your wording?
Claude (31:58):
It was like no, you're my bestie, I know, but you have
that same level of engagementwith other people.
Jess (32:05):
I'm like, what am I doing?
Claude (32:07):
Oh, it's a no, our, it's a no, our, it's a positive way.
Colleen Robinson (32:14):
Yes.
Claude (32:15):
It might work.
Jess (32:16):
We already have, like we cut through a lot of that red
tape.
Colleen Robinson (32:19):
Yeah.
Claude (32:20):
And also it's like my like, even like physical, yes,
and lean more.
That's why, for me, it's likethis genuine conversation.
Absolutely genuine conversation, talking and and leaning or
whatever versus someone that isnot in that state of
relationship.
I cannot do the same thing, somaybe absolutely your element of
(32:41):
genuine could be differentthough right.
Colleen Robinson (32:43):
I love this so much, genuine, yes, it's so
good, I love this.
I'm telling you, yeah, I, Iwant to keep the wraps on it,
because I could go off on this,because we're alive in an
example like right now.
Maybe a simple way to todifferentiate.
Why I positioned it like thatis because in an ideal
(33:04):
circumstance, claude, you'refeeling good on a day, jess,
you're feeling good on a daythat investment and connection
that you have in each other isfree and it's flowing and it's
easy to give and easy to receiveright.
That's the ideal, that's whatwe always want.
But the more interested andintentful we are to anybody that
we invest in right, the higherthe stakes become.
(33:24):
In other words, that means, yes, there's lots to gain, but at
that level of intimacy, there'smore to lose.
And the reason why that'simportant is is because let's
flip reverse engineer for asecond had a terrible sleep
cloud, had a really awful daybefore, jess, come into working
together, not at your best, notfeeling great, not in a great
mood, not really ready to takeon any other feathers on the
(33:48):
camel's back that might break itright.
We all have those moments onany level of intimacy, of
relationship that has deepintimacy, because that's not
just romantic, that's familial,that's friendship.
Right sometimes, that sameperson who can be your beautiful
I will receive you in all yourworst moments kind of person,
right when you're both in thatplace, you're even more afraid
(34:09):
to approach that person not me,because I'm a delight.
Dana Pemberton (34:13):
Yes, always.
Colleen Robinson (34:14):
Always, just for the record, please don't cut
that part up.
Always a delight, but why I'mbringing that into this
conversation and want to buildawareness around it is because
it's not necessarily the timespent with a person.
That is the only way to createintimacy, like just closeness
and relaxation and freedom.
The thing that allows us tostay in an intimate relationship
(34:35):
, that builds it, is knowingwhen not to take things
personally.
Totally Right, when we extendthat idea and that dynamic to a
coworker, let's say that wedon't like.
And I'm with you, claude,because you were right in the
vein which is, hey, I can treateverybody with dignity, respect,
kindness and give them someroom.
You don't have to have apersonally intimate relationship
(35:00):
with that person in order totreat them like you would treat
your bestie.
And maybe the simplest way tosay it is that there's a big
difference.
We treat love and lovingsomeone more like an action than
an energy.
So what does that mean?
That means I don't actuallyhave to know someone personally
or even at all to be lovingtowards them.
(35:20):
Okay, because if I can beloving towards them and then
they respond to me being lovingto them, but I treat them with
respect, I treat them withdignity.
I treat them like they have aright to occupy space.
I treat them like they have aright to occupy space.
I treat them like they have aright to have a voice.
If I can accept all thosethings and not take them
personally, when they saysomething that makes me react, I
open up space to build theenergy that does really create
(35:42):
real intimacy, which is I get tolike them a little bit because
I was loving to them.
They responded Cool, I'mgetting to know you.
I can't like you if I don'tknow you.
I also can't take thingspersonally from you if I don't
know.
Dana Pemberton (35:54):
I want to see how Claude feels with this, with
the imaginary person shedoesn't like.
Sure Right.
Jess (35:58):
Yes, it's fake, guys Fake.
Claude (36:02):
Ask me for a friend again.
Colleen Robinson (36:05):
We're going to challenge our old way of
thinking, because we're taughtthings that only work under
certain circumstances, andsometimes, when we're not in
those circumstances, then we'relost.
Jess (36:14):
Yeah, I'm curious.
So what's your thinking now?
No, it's true that.
Claude (36:18):
so, for example, when you have this strong
relationship with someone,you'll be more forgiving.
You know where they're comingfrom.
We are not always in a goodmood.
Jess (36:28):
We are whatever Like the last couple of weeks I'm coming
to work in a rough state and yourecognize, yeah, and I'm like
okay, yeah, and it's the sameway.
Claude (36:37):
sometimes I'm like not really want to say a word, but
it happens and you understandwhere it's coming from and you
might take offense at thebeginning but then afterwards,
because we are friends, weactually understand each other
and where we are coming from and, like you say, not take
personally.
When you have someone that youdon't have as much investment
(36:58):
with or affinity sometimes whichis not always good you're not
as flexible.
Colleen Robinson (37:04):
You work so good.
Sometimes all of what you justsaid, claude, flips.
There are times where I couldhear the same thing from 100
different people during the day,but because of my deep personal
connection to colleen and myempathy and compassion for her,
she can say one thing to me, onething, completely innocently,
and I will take it worse andmore personally than anybody
(37:27):
else.
I've heard the same thing fromthat whole day Because she knows
you, so she knows why it hurts.
For sure, absolutely.
Claude (37:37):
She knows the but yes.
Jess (37:39):
She probably would never do that she does.
Colleen Robinson (37:42):
Sorry, you missed the joke.
No, no, if we're going to leaveanything in, please leave it
out, because I'm going to nowuse this as a shorthand for how
we communicate.
I'm like, hey, you know my butt.
Come on, just that simplepossibility.
I can be the most forgiving tocolleen and try to cultivate
(38:02):
that all the time when I'm at mybest and hope that she does
that for me, right?
But I can have really bad dayssometimes, right, and when I
have a really bad day, sometimes, you know, you take it on the
people you love the most, right,it's true.
So those are the areas thatwe're talking about, because,
just like me going, do you meanthe burgundy purse?
And see, these are theconversations that we, that
we've learned to not avoid,right?
(38:22):
I can guarantee you therewasn't a whole lot of
understanding and forgivenessfor calling for me in that
moment.
Not a whole lot.
Why?
Because she's like my god.
You, of anyone on the planet,should know me and know my butt
well enough to recognize thatwas the stupidest thing you
could have said to me in thismoment.
And when we can be honest andauthentic about those moments
(38:45):
and then have conversationsaround those moments, right, the
level of intimacy and trust anddeep listening that's available
is miraculous right, but we'renot taught Now.
This is part of why I'm goingon so much, because I want
people to know that there's roomin places to be authentic, to
communicate clearly, to be heard, to be listened to.
Jess (39:08):
That they never thought possible, dana you bring up a
lot of great topics that, likeanybody, can relate to Work
besties for sure.
What is your area of focus?
How are people finding you guysand coming to you?
Dana Pemberton (39:20):
We started off working a lot with trauma.
People were coming to us almostas the like I've tried
everything else and this is mylast chance.
Whether it's my last chance tonot feel this pain or to have
this problem, or we're going toget a divorce if we don't get
this straightened out, or thecompany's going to collapse.
And one of the exciting thingsabout that is that we get to
start introducing these newconcepts and giving everybody
(39:42):
this space to actually have somepower again.
Oftentimes, with work besties,people will come in and that's
their only ally.
They feel when they go to workand everybody else is insane and
it's wonderful to have thatally.
But we can also feel quiteoverloaded because we feel like
we are powerless.
In that situation, everythingsucks except for you.
We help people with isboundaries, because a lot of
(40:05):
times when people are in worksituations where they only have
the one person who understandsthem, they're spending a lot of
time trying to set boundarieswith everybody else because they
feel so pushed and not listenedto and overwhelmed and so
insignificant compared toeverybody else Resonating really
well with the boundaries,because that's one that I
continue to have to work on.
Jess (40:25):
Love hearing that You're touching on a lot of topics that
people don't even know where togo to.
You want to share maybe howpeople would find you and where,
how to.
You want to share maybe howpeople would find you and where,
how would they be able tointeract with you all.
Dana Pemberton (40:36):
We are on thedigitaldojonet.
We named it before.
We tried to say it five timesquickly because you can't and
you can find links there.
You can find us on YouTube.
We're on YouTube, instagram,facebook, those LinkedIn, and we
want to make sure when peoplecome to the website that there's
something for any angle.
If somebody wants 30 seconds orthree minutes, they can watch
(40:58):
one of the YouTube videos on ourblog.
Or if people want to try alittle something, we've got a
free three-day mindset reset.
It's five minutes a day.
You can do the white belt mindwith Dana's ideas and me
bouncing stuff off of people.
The whole white belt mind isfree.
That's the introduction to theBlack Belt Mind stuff, and then
you can do things up to as muchas like a six or seven week
program, live on Zoom with us.
So there's so many ways in.
Jess (41:19):
And I feel like I saw something that you have a class
coming up.
Tell us details, because maybewe need to sign up.
Colleen Robinson (41:26):
Love to have you?
Dana Pemberton (41:27):
Yes, it's coming in September 18th.
We've got a class called theHappiness Pod, so it's a group
that meets on Thursday nightsonce a week for six weeks and we
work on all the stuff.
We work on happiness, we workon joy, we also work on stress
and anxiety and all the oldpatterns, including inherited
old patterns, that are keepingus from leaning into happiness
(41:47):
and leaning into joy.
Claude (41:48):
So is it mind and body, Because when you talk about, you
know the white belt mind rightaway you're thinking martial art
and everything.
Dana Pemberton (42:00):
So is it like a combination of both?
In theory, we're not going togive you physical exercises to
go home with, because all theblack belt mind stuff we're
taking the lessons from the dojo.
We're not actually saying, andnow throw a punch, this, so it's
.
It's the concept of the rightbelt line to help you.
When we, when we do nap whichis what I tend to lead in the
classes we're clearing out theold patterns that are holding
you back, whether or not youknow what they are.
(42:21):
And then, because you don'thave to know what they are,
that's the point of of workingin a group and you can get some
limbic resonance and some limbicrevision happening, which is
really cool neuroscience stuffthat allows your brain to change
without you having to work atit.
Then the Black Belt Mind stuffgives people a new framework
that you can choose to lead youforward.
That's awesome, that is so cool.
Claude (42:39):
If people are interested in that class, do they go to
your website and register.
Dana Pemberton (42:44):
Yeah, they can go to thedigitaldojonet.
Then you'll see somethingcalled a NAP pod as one of the
options there, and the pods arethese groups where we all work
together.
Jess (42:55):
Thank you.
So we do have one finalquestion what's one small shift
someone can make today to feelmore empowered, aligned and at
peace?
Dana Pemberton (43:04):
I'm blatantly stealing from Dana's Black Belt
Mind stuff because I have alwayshated boundaries.
I suck at boundaries.
I used to take classes and thenI'd try to do it and it was
exhausting.
And then in class one day, danastarts talking about standards
versus boundaries and I was justnodding as if I knew what he
was talking about.
Meanwhile I'm madly takingnotes.
This is awesome.
(43:27):
So we swap out boundaries forstandards.
So boundaries are something wedecide on that we try to enforce
on other people.
So every time somebody doesn'tdo it, we let them know and then
we have to manage theirreaction about how they let us
down.
It's a lot of work.
Standard says this is whatmatters to me and I'm going to
act as if it matters to me.
And if you don't respect thatand act as if it matters to you,
(43:49):
that's okay.
I get to choose how we interactfrom now on based on whether or
not you're meeting my standards.
You don't even have to tellthem that, you just start to act
accordingly.
I spend so much more timetrying to police other people
and more time just going.
You're respecting me.
I would love to give you moretime and attention.
And this person gets a verypolite, respectful short answer,
(44:11):
because they're not.
Jess (44:12):
I will take that right now .
Colleen Robinson (44:18):
Awesome.
Love it, Josh, Love it oh.
Jess (44:20):
Colleen and Dana.
This has been amazing.
We so appreciate you guys beingon.
I feel like what I took awayfrom this is working on yourself
and all these differentelements.
It doesn't have to be heavy.
It does come back down to justtaking that pause and thinking
and listening and feeling moregrounded because of it.
Thank you for sharing that.
Claude (44:38):
Thank you and work besties.
If you enjoyed as much as wedid, please make sure to click
subscribe and like this episode.
Forward it to your work bestieas well.
And don't forget september 18th.
Jess (44:53):
There's a great class ready for you and tell us if
you're going to be on it.
Maybe it'll convince claude andI to join too.
We'd love some of you workbestie community yes thank you
and see you next week.
Claude (45:07):
Thank you again, colin and dana.
Dana Pemberton (45:09):
Thank you both so much.
Fabulous people put good intothe world.
Colleen Robinson (45:12):
Thanks for being wonderful responders and
listeners and treating us likebesties.
Jess (45:16):
Remember whether you're swapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings or just sending
that perfectly timed meme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
squad.
Claude (45:29):
So keep lifting each other, laughing through the
chaos and, of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Work besties.
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