February 17, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode, Jess and Claude, The Work Besties, sit down with Wendy Alexander to discuss the challenges and opportunities that come with midlife career changes. Wendy shares her inspiring journey of resilience, highlighting the importance of feedback, self-improvement, and community support. They dive into the impact of menopause on careers, the rise of midlife professionals (the "silver tsunami"), and how work besties play a crucial role in navigating transitions. If you're feeling uncertain about your next career move, this episode will leave you with actionable insights and motivation to embrace change with confidence.
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
✔ Your biggest challenges can become stepping stones to success.
✔ Feedback is a powerful tool for growth—embrace it.
✔ Imposter syndrome is common, especially for midlife professionals.
✔ Open conversations about menopause in the workplace matter.
✔ A strong support system, including work besties, is essential.
✔ Midlife professionals are in demand—own your value.
✔ Self-care is the foundation for navigating transitions.
✔ Recognize your transferable skills to open new career paths.
✔ Networking can unlock unexpected opportunities.
✔ It’s never too early (or late!) to explore new career possibilities.
Tune in and get inspired to take the next step in your career journey!
#MidlifeCareer #WorkBesties #CareerChange #WomenAtWork #Podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jess (00:00):
What if your biggest challenges were roadblocks but
stepping stones to your dreamlife?
Today we're talking aboutconquering mid-life career
changes, breaking throughself-doubt and unlocking
successes, all with the power ofwellness and a work bestie by
your side.
So let's get into it.
Claude (00:18):
Hi.
I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night and
work besties for life.
Jess (00:27):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry.
Hello everybody, today we'rethrilled to welcome Wendy
Alexander to our Work Bestieswho podcast Hi Wendy.
(00:47):
Hi.
Wendy's story is nothing shortof extraordinary.
Growing up in apartheid inSouth Africa, thriving as a
single mom while climbing thatcorporate ladder and now
transforming herself as a careerlife coach, Wendy's helped many
professionals, especially thosewho are going through menopause
.
So let's talk to her andunderstand these challenges and
(01:10):
opportunities and how weourselves can land our own
perfect job.
Wendy Alexander (01:14):
Wendy, welcome.
Thank you, it's wonderful tomeet you both and thanks for
having me.
Jess (01:19):
Why don't you start by telling us a little bit about
yourself and your journey?
Wendy Alexander (01:31):
Okay.
So the journey obviously startsback in South Africa, under
very challenging circumstancesand environment, growing up in a
very segregated environment.
So that was probably the firstplace I learned about resilience
and finding ways forwardthrough limitations.
Because in South Africa therewas the classification and there
were opportunities only for acertain class of people.
And so I was told from a veryyoung age by my father his motto
(01:54):
was you're going to have towork twice as hard to get some
of the opportunities, and ofcourse I felt that was unfair,
but I took it on and began thejourney of always finding ways
through challenge and obstacles.
So that was the foundation ofresilience.
But then we migrated toAustralia as a family by choice.
(02:14):
We'd been trying for years toget out of the country, but the
interesting thing about that waswhen we arrived in Australia it
wasn't as easy.
As you know.
You dream of a life, but thensometimes that life isn't what
you think it's going to be,especially navigating all the
new rules in Australia.
Suddenly I could go wherever Iwanted to.
(02:35):
There was a lot moreopportunities for me, but when
you raise and you've grown upfor 21 years, it was at the time
in a very oppressiveenvironment, you don't actually
always know what to do withfreedom, and so, emotionally and
mentally, that was a challengefor all of us my siblings.
I have two brothers and twosisters, so we were five kids
navigating that whole new life.
(02:57):
The first two years weredifficult and then I ended up,
you know, studying, graduating,landing the job, and ended up in
a situation with a relationshipthat was surrounded with
domestic violence.
So that was a difficult time.
I was in that relationship foralmost 10 years and extricated
(03:21):
myself out of the relationshipwhen I was pregnant with my
daughter.
So I was four months pregnantwhen the relationship came to an
end, but it was the catalystthat led me to the career
coaching.
So the career coaching and thecareer transition started many
years ago, even before I turnedit into the business that it now
(03:44):
is, and it was out ofdesperation.
Really, the journey happenedbecause when the relationship
ended there was a lot of debt.
He walked away, I was left withthe debt.
I was four months pregnant andI was like I have to find a way
out of this, I have a child toraise, and so really I was
driven by the desire to makemore money.
(04:06):
I approached recruiters, Istarted to ask people for ways
and means and methods andstrategies on how I could
elevate my career, and I willsay there were many people who
helped me along the journey.
So the first lot of workbesties for me were the
recruiters and the hiringmanagers that I approached.
They gave me strategies.
(04:26):
I started writing and rewritingmy resume.
I've always written, even as achild growing up in South Africa
.
One of the ways that I processedall that difficult time was to
write.
So I wrote poetry.
I wrote little stories.
Writing was always a way for meto figure out the things I
couldn't figure out, and so Iused my love of writing and
(04:47):
words to rejig my resume.
But I approached the hiringpeople in the workplace.
That was the first place I gotsupport.
My first work besties were therecruiters and hiring people.
They taught me strategies onhow to interview and you know,
sometimes people sort of thinkwho's going to help me.
The message I want to say topeople is if you don't ask,
(05:10):
you're never going to know.
So I just asked.
I was pretty upfront.
I said this is my situation Ineed to make more money.
How do I get a job that's goingto make me more money, what are
the strategies I need to use?
And I find that when you'rereally authentic with people,
there are very few people thataren't going to help you.
So many people just stepped up,helped me, showed me what I
(05:31):
needed to do.
I practiced, practiced.
I started sending out my resumefor jobs that were probably not
jobs you would normally get,like.
I looked at my level ofexperience and my skills and I'm
like man, I'm aiming reallyhigh.
But I was like you know what?
I'm going to try it anyway.
You got to try.
You got to put yourself outthere and have a little bit of
(05:52):
courage, a little bit of faith,and I didn't get the very first
what I would call next levelrole that I went for.
I did the interview.
I didn't get the offer, but Iwent back to the interviewer and
I said can you give me feedback?
I know you've got a right tochoose whichever candidate you
want.
(06:12):
Clearly I wasn't the best onewho I would have gotten the job
offer.
But where can I improve?
And they were great.
They gave me the feedback.
They were like these are theareas where you spoke too long.
We asked you these type ofquestions and in some cases you
were just sort of rabbiting on.
You were talking for fiveminutes on an answer that should
have taken you two minutes.
I mean, this was detailedfeedback.
(06:34):
It taught me to start topractice in a way that was very
succinct in my answers.
I need to not leave out anyinformation, but there has to be
a better way to communicatethis information.
And one of the recruitersactually said to me you need to
always keep in mind thatrecruiters and hiring people are
(06:54):
busy people.
So when you show awareness ofhow busy they are by giving
sharp, succinct answers, they'realready impressed with you.
They they already looking atyou as a candidate who's doing
more than simply applying for ajob.
You're aware of the hiringperson as well, and that was a
strategy that was gold for me.
(07:15):
I literally started to applythat in every interview and then
, probably I'd say six or eightmonths after I started my whole
research, I landed the role thatI wanted and the role jumped my
income significantly by like$45,000, $50,000, which I was
not expecting, because my goalwas $20,000.
(07:36):
So I doubled what my vision wasand I was like there's
something here.
But then the people around mewho you know friends, family,
colleagues they knew what I'dbeen through, they knew the rock
bottom that I'd hit and theysaw this really big catapult
within six to eight months.
And so they started coming Likehow did you do that?
(07:58):
That was, in fact, where thebusiness was born, but part time
because I'd landed a big rolein corporate and I worked
corporate for 22 years before Idecided to make a change again,
and that was a change that wasinstigated by midlife and
menopause.
Jess (08:19):
Wendy, before we get into the midlife area, I do want to
ask a couple questions, becausewe do have a lot of work,
besties who are starting out intheir career, and you hit on
some areas that I think weassume everybody knows but is
worth it to comment on, and thatis you did a couple of really
impressive things that I don'tthink everyone likes to do.
(08:39):
One look at accepting that youdidn't get a job as a gift and
asking for feedback because youcan always learn.
I think that is ingenious.
And then the second area youhit on is when you were given
the feedback about being moresuccinct with your answers.
What was your approach?
(09:00):
Knowing, as you said, a lot ofthese individuals don't have a
lot of time and they just wantan answer.
Wendy Alexander (09:04):
Knowing, as you said, a lot of these
individuals, don't have a lot oftime and they just want an
answer.
What was your process toprepare?
So, for me, one of the things Idid was I went to a government
website and I asked the websitehow to interview succinctly,
right, and back then thegovernment had this framework
and they called it the SAOframework, which was describe
the situation, the actions youtook and the outcome.
(09:25):
And I literally started to copythat framework.
But what I did was I timedmyself.
So obviously, the first fewtimes I tried it out, I'm three
and a half.
I'm like no, no, no, they saidto me I need to get down to two
minute answers and so I wouldtime myself.
And then, slowly, from practice, you become more and more
succinct and all I did was likeokay, I just need to describe
(09:45):
the situation really quickly Twoto three actions I took.
What was the outcome?
Because interviewers always wantto see what the outcome is of
the actions you took in a joband you need to be focused on
conveying your contributions andyour achievements.
A lot of people make themistake of conveying their long
(10:06):
list of tasks andresponsibilities, but that
doesn't tell someone how you cancontribute to them.
They already know what aproject manager does.
They know what a CEO does.
They know what a financemanager does.
They don't need you toreiterate that right.
What they want to know is howdid you succeed in that
particular role?
What were some specific stepsyou took in some specific
(10:28):
situations that led to greatoutcomes?
But they don't always seekpositive outcomes because
sometimes you don't get apositive outcome.
Sometimes you might trysomething and it doesn't
actually give you the result youwant.
The key there is to thendescribe the lesson that you
learned, the growth that you hadthrough that particular
(10:50):
challenge, that maybe you didn'tget the outcome you wanted, but
you learned lesson one, two orthree.
What were the top three thingsyou learned through the
experience?
Because I see hiring people andmyself I was in corporate
hiring for a lot of majorprojects in Australia big ones,
$100 million projects and for meI always gave people a shot who
(11:12):
could tell me the growth thatthey went through through a
challenging experience.
If they didn't get the positiveoutcome, fine, what did you
learn?
You know, because growth isalso a positive.
It's another way of having apositive outcome.
Where people make the mistakes,like people starting out, is
they zone in on their long tasksand responsibilities which
(11:33):
nobody cares about, because thejob description already tells
them what it is.
They want to know how did youachieve?
Because the moment they knowhow you achieve, they already
know how you can contribute totheir company.
Right, if you can achieve thishere and here, that means you
can bring that same kind ofthinking, that same kind of
strategy, that same ability topivot and to think on your feet
(11:57):
into their company.
That's what people are lookingfor.
It becomes very much aboutoutlining your achievements
where you've succeeded beforeand using a framework situation,
action, outcome.
It's a very easy framework,easy to remember and you can
actually bring your answers backinto like two or two and a half
(12:18):
minute answers using thatframework.
But it is practice.
It took me a few goes before Iwas able to get and then once I
was able to keep it at that twominute, two and a half minute
mark, that is pretty much how Iinterviewed for the rest of my
career.
Claude (12:34):
Never it never failed me there was something also that
you said that I thought wasinteresting, where you tried
some position where you were notper se at that level.
There's always this impostersyndrome yeah, and we talk a lot
with Jess, I have a huge one.
(12:54):
So how did you actually getaway from this situation, from
this, and having the courage?
And because, at the end of theday, I think that the person
sees if you're not sure ofyourself or not- Absolutely
Women, especially midlife women.
Wendy Alexander (13:13):
I think we really suffer from imposter
syndrome in a big way.
Part of it is to do with allthe changes that's going through
our bodies.
We end up with brain fog, wehave insomnia, and so it dents
the confidence quite a bit.
I've seen that the fact that Iwas in corporate running major
(13:36):
projects for a lot of years whenI hit that midlife journey, I
did start to feel doubt myselfand I did start to feel like I
want to move in a differentdirection.
But who's going to give me theopportunity Now?
I had all the history thatpeople did give me opportunities
, because that's what happenedin my career From that moment
when I had transitioned intothis new job that paid me, you
(13:57):
know, more than I expected, orwell, my goal was 20, they gave
me 50.
I had the evidence that I coulddo it.
But something does happen to usat this stage.
I think also society'ssubliminal messages about women
and their usefulness in midlifegets into the brain somehow, and
so one of the things that I didwhen I was getting ready to
(14:20):
move out of corporate and changemy career, I actually did a
process on myself.
It is now a process that Iactually use with most of my
clients and I call it miningyour story, and I actually sat
down and I went through myentire career, also my personal
life, because people don't onlyachieve in their careers.
We achieve in our personal life.
(14:42):
I looked at what I had overcomein my life, from growing up in
South Africa, from survivingdomestic violence, from starting
women's groups to support womenthrough domestic violence.
I had a meditation group for alot of years that women used to
come to.
There is leadership andtransferable skills in all of
(15:04):
those things that I did.
So, even if I didn't have thejob specific skills at an
advanced level, I had all thesoft skills that those roles
required, and so I just startedto frame my resume, my LinkedIn,
my presence, very differently.
Soft skills are never going togo out of fashion, even with
(15:25):
emerging technology.
You still need peopleleadership.
You still need people to beable to work in teams.
You still need people to beable to be strategic in how they
work with clients.
You still need people to beable to work in teams.
You still need people to beable to be strategic in how they
work with clients.
You still need people to beable to connect to clients so
that they can advocate for theclient's success.
Those kinds of soft skills arenever going out of style, no
(15:45):
matter what industry you're in,and what I teach people to do is
to zone in on that rather thanzone in on the job-specific
skills, and also, to be honest,like I've put, helped people put
applications together wherewe've said, though I may not
have this particular skill.
For example, there's a lady Ijust helped in Denmark.
(16:06):
She wants to go for a role inrecruitment with a
non-for-profit organization whodoes work in Africa Now.
She speaks numerous languages,she's worked across numerous
international companies.
She doesn't have therecruitment skills, but she's
got everything else that theyneed.
So the application right up thefront.
We stated even though I don'thave recruitment skills, here's
(16:29):
where these five or six majorskills of mine is going to
benefit your organization.
And that's how you start toframework.
You zone in on what you do have, not on what you don't have,
because chances are you probablyonly don't have one or two
major skills, but you've goteverything else that they need.
It comes back to framing, notonly in your career documents so
(16:51):
your resume and your LinkedInbranding but when you interview
you need to have your examplesready and if they try and keep
taking you down a road of thisparticular skill, you keep
pushing them down the road ofthese five skills that you do
have.
You know, don't hide away fromthe fact that you don't have a
particular skill, or one skillor two skills that might be in
(17:13):
the job description Zone in onthe many that you do have.
Jess (17:18):
So it isn't that you don't have the skill.
It's like reframing how youhave the skill, but in a
different lens, and this is howyou can then still apply it to
the role that you are looking at.
Wendy Alexander (17:28):
Most of us learn on the job.
We don't come to a job withevery skill.
We learn about teamcollaboration A lot of the jobs.
We don't come to a job withevery skill we know.
We learn about teamcollaboration.
A lot of the jobs we go intouses different systems.
So sometimes we've got to learna different system to do HR
work or we might have to do adifferent system to do project
management work.
But the fact is we're alllearning all the time and I
think if you zone in on the factthat you a willing learner, you
(17:52):
a person that's interested inlifelong learning, that's a very
good phrase.
Lifelong learning, it's thebuzzword now in the hiring
industry and if you throw thatat them, they love it.
Jess (18:02):
Yeah, wendy, you commented before that you started
coaching people early on.
Wendy Alexander (18:08):
Yeah.
Jess (18:09):
Why, specifically, are you focusing on the midlife cohorts
?
What is it about the midlifethat you feel needs the most
area of attention?
Wendy Alexander (18:20):
Well, I think when people get to that midlife
and this is men and women whatI've seen with the men that I
coach is men make decisionsfaster.
So if they get to a stage wherethey're sick of the career,
they hate the job, they arereally onto it right.
They move very, very quickly,they make a decision, they
engage a coach and they goMidlife.
(18:40):
Women we tend to start doubtingourselves.
The imposter syndrome kicks in.
But how can I do it?
How do I make the change?
And I think, because I waschallenged myself.
I have that soft spot for women.
So it's where I've beenchanneling my work in the last
year or two trying to help womenidentify the skills, the
talents that they have to offer,but also help move them into a
(19:03):
career that's a lot lessstressful, because midlife and
menopause is stressful.
If you most of us go through itwith some symptoms, If it's not
mood swings, if it's notinsomnia, brain fog, all of
those things right, Anxiety, Allof us.
I had all the symptoms beingembarrassed because I'd be in a
(19:24):
meeting and at the time I wasthe only female on some of the
leadership teams, and suddenlymy blouse is sticking to my body
and the sweat is running downme and I had hot flashes with
nausea.
So I'd be like, oh my God, I'mgoing to throw up and you just
dash off and you don't even knowhow to explain to them.
(19:47):
Because when you come back intothe room, you're so embarrassed
you don't know how to tell themthat it's a sign or symptom of
menopause.
You're so embarrassed you don'tknow how to tell them that it's
a sign or symptom of menopause.
But that's one of theconversations that I want to
change.
Women should be able to say youknow what?
This is a symptom and I need tobe excused right now, without
getting men shift awkwardly orwhoever's on the leadership team
(20:09):
.
We haven't spoken enough aboutit.
We need our besties to be menthat are also championing our
causes in the workplace, butwe're the first champions.
We're the ones that shouldn'tbe embarrassed about it.
The conversation needs to be alot more open.
Jess (20:25):
I think your work besties can really help make that career
change less overwhelming,because it's somebody with that
support system.
Question for that one would bethen as we all go through these,
sometimes we do feel like we'realone in it.
What would be your advice forthem if they are struggling with
their career or looking forthat change?
Wendy Alexander (20:43):
Well, hr departments are probably the
first place to start, because alot of them have employee
assistant programs and, yes, alot of that might be focused on
something else, but who's goingto open up the conversation if
not you, right?
And also, when you go and speakto an HR representative,
there's a lot of confidentialityaround those conversations.
(21:04):
So, that's probably one of thefirst places you could start is
to go and have a conversation,see if there's something in
place at the organization, andif there isn't, you might have
to be brave enough to take it onand to instigate it and to come
with some recommendations, youknow.
Here's how I think we cansupport midlife women in the
(21:25):
workplace.
What I found as well and it'sinteresting this was an
interesting one for me because Iactually found the men a lot
easier to talk about Once Istarted to have the
conversations.
I got a lot of support from men.
That's interesting.
(21:45):
I think it may have hadsomething to do with the fact
that when I started to open upabout the conversation and bring
it up in the workplace, theyhad the understanding they have
wives, they have partners andsuddenly they were like aha, is
this what this is all about?
I'm living with this at home.
Jess (22:04):
I don't know what it is they're like.
No, it's all making sense yeah.
Wendy Alexander (22:09):
For them it was like wow, tell me more was kind
of the response I gotInteresting.
Now I know that that hasn'thappened in enough workplaces.
I believe that we can alwaysget better.
It goes back to authenticity,to what I said at the start of
the conversation when I wasstruggling as a single mom and I
just went and asked for help.
(22:30):
I didn't try and hide the factthat I was going through a very
difficult time, that I didn'tknow what I was doing, that I
needed to make more money.
I wasn't trying to posture.
I wasn't trying to put a braveface on or whitewash the
situation.
It was no, this is what it isand I need help.
(22:50):
And I found very similarconversations with when you're
authentic people unless they'rereally awful people and
mean-spirited people, peoplestep up to help you.
But what people don't like iswhen you're pretending People
can sense and feel that that'swhen people become reserved and
they won't step up and help orthey'll be a little bit
(23:12):
suspicious.
But if you're authentic and youshare, I certainly found.
Once I started speaking to theexecutive leaders I said look,
we need support for women.
This is what I'm going through.
This is why I'm running out ofthe meetings all the time
because I feel awful, I feellike I'm about to throw up, I
don't want to embarrass myself,whatever.
Whatever I said not every womangets nausea with hot flashes,
(23:32):
but some women do, I said.
But we need to create supportwhere women can feel like they
can say you know what, I'mhaving a moment, or even be
humorous about it.
I'm having a meno moment.
Claude (23:45):
I love it.
The thing is that I feel thatnowadays it's not as taboo as it
used to be.
Like we saw lately, a lot ofcelebrities came out and
actually say I'm going throughthat, I am really uncomfortable,
it's horrible.
So it's really teaching alsothe younger generation well, you
know, that's what's going tohappen and also to finally see
(24:08):
the people that are goingthrough that.
Okay, that's normal, it's notme that is going crazy, because
you believe sometimes thatthere's something wrong with you
.
They all say you know, youbecome another personality or
whatever with all those changes.
Wendy Alexander (24:24):
So what I really appreciate is that more
and more we talk about it andbecome you know, yes, the
conversation is definitely risenaround, like I've done lots of
talks on a lot of differentpodcasts and I can definitely
see that the conversation isopening up a lot more.
My menopause journey probablythe end of the tail end of it
(24:45):
was two or three years ago, butI had seven years.
I started very early.
I started at 45, which that wasanother thing that slammed me.
I wasn't ready for it, I wasn'tprepared mentally, and so I
think that's part of why Ireally struggled through it.
But it pushed me towardsdifferent things in my life,
which is now really supportingthe midlife woman, because I
(25:08):
know that that support has beenslim and I can see it starting
to gain traction, but it'snowhere near where it needs to
be.
Jess (25:15):
You know, there's still so it sounds like more people are
talking about it, there's moresupport, but they don't know
what to do.
Like there is no blueprint oroutside of them being advocates
of listening to you, they're notnecessarily doing anything yet
that's right.
Claude (25:31):
Going back to those symptoms that are not fun and
you know you helping with careercoaching and everything how do
you make those women reallyunderstand OK, it's OK to pivot.
How can you make them OK tochange despite all those changes
?
You know what I mean.
(25:51):
Like, because you cannot get toalleviate the symptoms.
So how do you make them morecomfortable?
Wendy Alexander (26:00):
Well, the Minding your Story is all about
going to look at the patterns,the skills, the things that you
automatically and naturally goodat.
Because if you're going to moveinto a career that, at this
stage of life, you want to moveinto one that's as stress-free
as possible, that means you needto move into something that's
going to make you happy, that'sgoing to make you want to get
(26:22):
out of bed on a Monday morningand go to that job.
If you're going to a job thatyou hate and you're going
through menopause and all theawful symptoms that come with it
, all that's going to do iscompound your stress, and when
we're stressful we don't makewise and smart decisions.
I've never seen anybody make asmart or wise decision when
(26:44):
they're super anxious or superstressed.
The first part of the work thatI do with women is we need to
dig into, we need to go mineyour story for your gold nuggets
.
What are the gold nuggets ofyou know Jess's story or
Claude's story?
Where has there been patternsin your life where things have
come easy to you, where you'renaturally good at it?
(27:05):
In my situation, I realized Ihad the ability to write Like
I've been writing since I wassix years old.
So I recognized that in mypattern was this ability with
words.
I was a wordsmith and I'm likehow can I use this wordsmith or
this love of words?
And the other pattern that keptshowing up was I was always
helping people, from the time Iwas a teenager growing up in
(27:26):
South Africa, working athomeless shelters and things
like that.
And I was like now, how do Icombine this, how do I combine
these two things that I know Iwould get up out of bed to do
every single day and be joyousabout it?
And that's how I actuallyestablished I was like well,
writing as a career coach, I wasdoing it very part time.
(27:47):
I'm like I can turn this into afull time business.
And then the other thing Istarted to do was copywriting
for small businesses, because alot of small businesses they
don't know how to brandthemselves and I'm like they
need words.
I can do words, I like words,and that is, in fact, how I
perverted and it's how I help alot of women identify what they
(28:09):
can contribute in the leaststressful way possible, because
that's the most important thingaround midlife and menopause for
women we need to reduce ourstress.
Jess (28:21):
So when you, if somebody comes to you and they say help
me, mind my story, you're notnecessarily saying to them you
need to shift a career.
You're actually just helpingthem understand what they like
and don't like.
Because you made the leap right, you they like and don't like
because, because you made theleap right, you said okay I like
writing.
I like helping people.
You've had that knowledge ofconnecting the data to an
(28:44):
opportunity, of what are someskill sets and jobs out there
that I can do.
How do these other peoplefigure that out?
Is it you coming to them oryou're just saying here's those
skills that you're strong in andletting them figure?
Wendy Alexander (28:55):
it out.
I help them identify the skillsthat they're strong in.
Then we look at can we usethose skills in the current
company?
Because if you don't have tomove companies and you just end
up sort of going into anotherbusiness unit, well that's
better, that's an easytransition, right.
But if you find that the skillsthat we've now identified are
(29:17):
your strongest and there isn'tan opportunity in your company,
so you now need to shift into anew company.
I never encourage people tojust leave a job because then
you're going to put yourselfunder financial strain.
Jess (29:29):
And you're actually adding more stress, potentially
because you have to reinventyourself.
Wendy Alexander (29:33):
Absolutely.
Jess (29:34):
And if it's not something you really love, why bother?
Wendy Alexander (29:37):
Why bother?
So the other way to gaintraction in something is to go.
Okay, I've identified this setof skills.
How can I do it on a volunteerbasis, for maybe an hour, two
hours a week, potentially at acompany?
I used to actually volunteerwith collecting food for the
homeless here in Australia and Imet some amazing CEO type
(30:00):
people doing the same thing.
One or two of them gave me anopportunity.
Right, we packing food togetheron a Saturday, we start talking
and next thing you know they'regoing.
I could do with someone likeyou in my company.
So you make connections throughvolunteering.
Right, there's so many ways youcan segue into an opportunity,
(30:21):
and that's one of the things Ilike helping people do is shift
the mindset about this is theonly path.
No, it isn't the only way foryou.
There are so many ways.
The other way is we'veidentified where your talents
are.
Now let's go identify the kindof companies you might want to
work with.
Okay, so this is a longer game,but you play the game right.
It's like okay, so these arethe top 10 companies that you
(30:44):
think you might want to go workfor.
Now we go to linkedin.
Who are the decision makers inthat company.
Look at the hr managers, lookat the ceos, look at the middle
management.
Start, start to friend thosepeople, start to follow them,
start to like their posts,comment on their posts, because
now you're going to startnetworking and build a
relationship.
Now maybe that's a six-monthgame or even a 12-month game,
(31:07):
but by the time you've finishedand build those connections, you
are now in front of that personBecause I know with me when
people connect to me.
You are now in front of thatperson Because I know with me.
When people connect to me, ifthey've been following my posts
and they've been commenting onit, I know who they are.
The moment they reach out to meand say can you help me?
I know who they are becauseI've seen them comment and like
(31:28):
on my posts.
So I am likely to accept thatconnection.
And then when they ask for helpor tips or strategies, I'm
happy to send them quick tipsand strategies when they come
ready to work with me.
We already have some kind ofrelationship going.
People don't respond to peoplewho just reach out and go can
you help me?
But you've actually givennothing to that person, right?
Jess (31:49):
You have no connection.
They're like just can you giveme a job?
Wendy Alexander (31:52):
You're like no, it's like no.
I've had people say to me canyou pass my resume around?
Well, actually no, because Idon't know you and I don't know
what you'd like as a person.
I have a reputation inAustralia.
I have a lot of hiring peoplethat I work with.
I'm only going to open mynetwork to you if I get to know
you a little bit, because I'mnot going to tank my reputation,
(32:13):
right?
No, I'm not going to do that,but I will help someone who is
also willing to give, and evenif that giving is commenting on
my post, sharing, asking mequestions and I've now sent you
emails back and forth, or we'vesent messages and I've given you
tips on how to interview andthe other thing that here's a
(32:33):
tip that has always worked andI'll say this to people when you
go for interviews, even if youdon't get the job.
This is something that workedreally well for me and it still
works really well for me, evenin my new business is send thank
you notes to people.
Job, thank people for theopportunity, because I can tell
(32:57):
you one thing you're going to befront of their mind, you're
going to be staying in theirmind and when the next
opportunity comes.
You're the person they're goingto reach out to, because they
remembered you from simplethings like that.
Claude (33:07):
Yeah, it's so funny because, you know, with Jess, at
some point when we were workingtogether, we were interviewing
the same candidate and a lot ofthem we were like, did you
receive a thank you note?
Wendy Alexander (33:19):
I didn't, you know, and we were actually
shocked that people would notsend it it's a simple thing, but
it is a very effective strategyfor putting yourself front of
mind for a hiring person.
I always send them and Iencourage every person I work
with.
I in fact, when someone has hadan interview my clients and
(33:43):
they go oh, I had an interview,I go.
Did you send the thank you note?
They go oops, I go send it now.
Like seriously, because peopleknow people, even if this
recruiter doesn't have the rightjob for you, they're working
with three or four otherrecruiters who might have the
right job for you.
They're working with three orfour other recruiters who might
have the right job for you andthey're going to go.
This person was so great towork with, they had great
(34:03):
manners, they sent me a thankyou note.
They're going to pass yourresume on to that other
recruiter.
Opportunities are everywhereand all it takes is just a
little bit of basic manners.
Jess (34:16):
Not just the recruiting or HR but to the person you're
interviewing with too, becausein some of the examples Klaan
and I are talking, oh, thatindividual would have been
perfect for this otherdepartment not ours and if they
wrote a thank you we could havesaid like hey, we actually know
of another job.
Did you think about applyingfor that one?
And then you instantly havelike a connection in the company
(34:36):
.
So you just that's your point.
Wendy Alexander (34:38):
You never know, just putting it out there can
potentially really lead to abigger, bigger, broader
opportunity yeah, back to thetheme of your podcast, it you
need to be building your workbesties everywhere, everywhere.
Sometimes you have closer workbesties than others, but always
be building them.
Building them everywhere,because you don't know where
(35:01):
your opportunity is going tocome from.
I had people who reported to meI was their manager.
They left, they you know theyleft and went for another job
and then two years later theycontacted me and go, there's a
managerial.
And then two years later theycontacted me and go there's a
managerial, there's a PM managerrole here and they would put my
resume forward.
So some of my opportunitiescame from people that I once
(35:23):
looked after, that once reportedto me.
Right, and so treat people well, create bestie relationships
all over the place, because youdon't know who's going to create
the next one.
Jess (35:35):
Yeah, so I was going to ask you how important is that
community?
But you've already hit that.
Yeah, it would be strongly thatyour community is very
important, so why don't I askthis instead?
Do you have any go-to tips tohelp continue to build that now?
Wendy Alexander (35:49):
So one of the things that I don't see a lot of
people doing but when they doit it is pure gold is okay, you
didn't maybe get the job offerthat you wanted, but if you know
someone is really good for ajob, you know they've got the
kind of skills that potentiallyyou refer that onto that
recruiter.
I'm telling you you will beemployed always, because the
(36:10):
moment you give to people likethat, you go.
You know what?
I know I didn't get that job,that job, but you know, I know
you were looking for this, thisand this, and here's, here's
someone who I know wouldprobably be good, and you refer
that person onto that recruiteror onto that hiring manager.
They will never forget you,they will never forget you and
they will make it their businessto look out for you.
(36:31):
It's just the way the cycleworks.
And also the person that youend up referring on like I've
referred people on to rolesthey've never forgotten what
I've done for them.
So when opportunities come, youknow they send it.
When I was in corporate, theywould send me.
I never, never, had to job huntagain.
Everything happened through thenetwork.
(36:51):
People just kept referring meon for various reasons.
Sometimes it was simply becauseI was a good manager to my
staff and I looked after themand I helped grow their career
and I helped write their resumes.
I never held people to me.
For me it's like if you'reready to grow, then my job as a
manager is that I've got to helpyou grow.
So if I help you write a resumeso you can go to another
(37:13):
company and get what you want,people don't forget that.
And similarly, when you refergood people onto them, the
community just has to keepgrowing.
You keep giving, you keepgiving, you keep being a work
bestie to as many people as youcan be, and you will never have
to hunt for a job.
Claude (37:32):
It's going back again and supporting each other for a
job.
It's going back again andsupporting each other, right,
supporting this community,absolutely.
Jess (37:39):
People, you don't always be just about yourself.
Exactly Like I said, I thinkeven to your point supporting
others and finding solutions orideas for others it winds up
supporting you longer term too.
It's an interesting thing thatcontinues to.
It's just like the gift thatkeeps on giving.
So, wendy, who would be anideal candidate for you?
Like what, what, who?
Who should be thinking to reachout to you?
Wendy Alexander (38:01):
I work with all kinds of people, but I've
pivoted the business to mostlythe midlife woman.
But that doesn't mean I don'twork with midlife men because,
as I said, a lot of my clientsare senior men, senior
executives.
They're easy to work withbecause they tend to make very
fast decisions.
Men I don't know what it is inthe brain, they just go I need
(38:24):
to change and they go boom.
Women need to think through it,but that's the kind of person I
like to work with, because Iwas there too.
I was lacking in confidence andfeeling a little bit battered
by all the changes going on inmy body, and so I can speak to
women from that place.
I can share my journey and howdifficult it was and that,
despite the fact that it wasthat difficult, you can make the
(38:47):
change.
Claude (38:49):
Just thinking about it, making the, you know, making the
changes.
But is it for to go to anothercompany?
Because a lot of time we hearokay, I'm 47, I'm 50, I will
never find a job, right, I amtoo old, I'm so close to
retirement.
So you see that you actuallycompany, do hire midlife,
(39:12):
midlife women and you do hiremidlife women.
Wendy Alexander (39:15):
There's a new buzz phrase called the silver
tsunami and it's going on in theworld.
I work with people all acrossthe world.
Companies have recognizedespecially after the pandemic,
they have recognized that peopleare struggling with confidence.
People are struggling with evenknowing how to communicate with
(39:39):
one another.
What they've seen is that thesilver-haired people, us okay,
so mine's died the midlifepeople.
We come with the experience, wecome with the battle wounds, the
scars of working througheveryday life, challenge, work,
life, all of that.
And so companies are pivotingand they're looking more for the
midlife person, the one that'sgot some experience but it's
also still young enough to workwith the young ones and work
(40:02):
with the older level ofleadership.
So we are actually the silvertsunami is on the rise.
We are in demand, but we needto have the confidence to
present ourselves.
So that's what I'm seeing.
Certainly, I'm seeing thesilver tsunami and if you look
it up, it is the rise in hiringfor that midlife person.
So this is our time and itprobably will be our time for
(40:24):
the next 10 years.
I'd say so if you're going tojump on it, now's the time.
Jess (40:28):
You brought it up all the way in the beginning of the
podcast about including yoursoft skills.
It is one thing I believe wedon't see very often in resumes.
I agree with you, though,because a lot of those soft
skills especially not justmanaging your whole household,
but a lot of us are runningprograms for our kids, their PTA
, whatever.
And then to your point, likeyou're probably doing some stuff
(40:50):
on the side too, whether you'rehosting a book club or, you
know, a weekly social with yourneighborhood A lot of these
things take leadership skillsthat we don't give ourselves the
credit for, and we should beyeah.
Wendy Alexander (41:05):
You're a leader , you're organizing, yeah, just
about framing it up and that's.
I suppose some people can writethey love words, like I do, and
as long as you know how toframe it up, you're going to be
able to get opportunities.
But if you don't, then findsomeone who can help you.
Claude (41:21):
And it's really recognizing what we have and
owning them and being proud ofit.
We always say, woman, or, forexample, something you know, oh,
I love your dress or whatever,oh, I got it on set right.
We always downplay, downplay.
So it is important for us torealize we have to stop that and
(41:42):
really own what we have,because it's fantastic.
We have a lot of great softskill.
Wendy Alexander (41:48):
A simple thank you is a great answer to many
compliments.
I think we're not trained to dothat Society.
I remember being taught as ayoung girl you have to be demure
and you don't boast or brag.
And it's not about boasting orbragging, it's just about simply
saying if someone pays you acompliment, thank you very much.
The more you do that, the moreyou actually hear more
(42:12):
compliments and the more it getsinto the psyche and you become
more and more comfortable owningyour unique skills and hiring
people hire confidence that'sthe fundamental thing that they
do.
So if you're confident and youown your skills, people are
going to go.
I need that person on my teamBecause that is the kind of
(42:32):
person that instills confidencein other people.
But if you're alwaysdownplaying your skills, then
that doesn't instill confidencein someone.
Claude (42:40):
Yeah.
And nobody is going to want tohire you.
Jess (42:43):
So, wendy, I have one last question for you.
What is that?
One piece of advice you'd givesomebody who isn't quite ready
to make the change, or maybeunsure of wanting to make a
change?
Wendy Alexander (42:56):
So I would say to people explore.
Start to dig into yourselfearly.
Do the foundational piecesbefore you're even ready to make
a change right.
Start to identify what is itthat I really love?
What is it that I really wantto do?
Where can I go?
Do it.
Okay, I may not be ready to makethat change in this year, I may
(43:16):
only be ready in 18 months orin 12 months, but start to
explore.
Explore so that you can thenhave some idea of the direction,
because a person withoutdirection or without a plan is
literally not going to hit anykind of goal right.
You're spinning around and so,if you have the time, if you're
(43:38):
the fortunate person who's in ajob and you go, you know what?
I'm not ready to make thechange for another year or 18
months.
Start exploring now, so that bythe time you're ready to make
the change, all the foundationalwork has been done already,
because you don't want to get toa point where you're so
stressed out, you're so anxious,you're hating your job so much.
Now you're trying to make thechange and you've now got to go.
(43:59):
Do all the foundational workfirst, because that's time
wasting, that's going to put youunder more stress.
So if you have even theslightest thought in your mind I
think I want to change mycareer or I think I want to go
work for a different company,but maybe I want to do that in
12 months time or 18 months, Getmoving on the foundational
pieces now.
Claude (44:22):
Thank you so much, Wendy .
Any parting words?
Wendy Alexander (44:26):
One thing I will say to women, midlife women
self-care is super important.
Make sure that that's happening.
Alongside any kind of change.
Self-care is my number onepriority, because if this body
and this mind isn't working,then nothing works, not for a
long period of time, so true.
Claude (44:45):
Well, thank you so much, Wendy, for your incredible
insight.
We love it Really.
This episode was a masterclassin transforming midlife
challenges into opportunities.
And again, some great words,mind your story and important to
(45:06):
have those lifelong you knowlearning.
It's never too late, so makesure that you have a work bestie
to help you on this journey.
And thank you so much and shareto all the work besties out
there and keep lifting eachother.
Jess (45:23):
Remember whether you're swapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings or just sending
that perfectly timed meme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
squad.
Claude (45:36):
So keep lifting each other, laughing through the
chaos and, of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Work besties.
What if your biggest challenges were roadblocks but
stepping stones to your dreamlife?
Today we're talking aboutconquering mid-life career
changes, breaking throughself-doubt and unlocking
successes, all with the power ofwellness and a work bestie by
your side.
So let's get into it.
Claude (00:18):
Hi.
I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night and
work besties for life.
Jess (00:27):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry.
Hello everybody, today we'rethrilled to welcome Wendy
Alexander to our Work Bestieswho podcast Hi Wendy.
(00:47):
Hi.
Wendy's story is nothing shortof extraordinary.
Growing up in apartheid inSouth Africa, thriving as a
single mom while climbing thatcorporate ladder and now
transforming herself as a careerlife coach, Wendy's helped many
professionals, especially thosewho are going through menopause
.
So let's talk to her andunderstand these challenges and
(01:10):
opportunities and how weourselves can land our own
perfect job.
Wendy Alexander (01:14):
Wendy, welcome.
Thank you, it's wonderful tomeet you both and thanks for
having me.
Jess (01:19):
Why don't you start by telling us a little bit about
yourself and your journey?
Wendy Alexander (01:31):
Okay.
So the journey obviously startsback in South Africa, under
very challenging circumstancesand environment, growing up in a
very segregated environment.
So that was probably the firstplace I learned about resilience
and finding ways forwardthrough limitations.
Because in South Africa therewas the classification and there
were opportunities only for acertain class of people.
And so I was told from a veryyoung age by my father his motto
(01:54):
was you're going to have towork twice as hard to get some
of the opportunities, and ofcourse I felt that was unfair,
but I took it on and began thejourney of always finding ways
through challenge and obstacles.
So that was the foundation ofresilience.
But then we migrated toAustralia as a family by choice.
(02:14):
We'd been trying for years toget out of the country, but the
interesting thing about that waswhen we arrived in Australia it
wasn't as easy.
As you know.
You dream of a life, but thensometimes that life isn't what
you think it's going to be,especially navigating all the
new rules in Australia.
Suddenly I could go wherever Iwanted to.
(02:35):
There was a lot moreopportunities for me, but when
you raise and you've grown upfor 21 years, it was at the time
in a very oppressiveenvironment, you don't actually
always know what to do withfreedom, and so, emotionally and
mentally, that was a challengefor all of us my siblings.
I have two brothers and twosisters, so we were five kids
navigating that whole new life.
(02:57):
The first two years weredifficult and then I ended up,
you know, studying, graduating,landing the job, and ended up in
a situation with a relationshipthat was surrounded with
domestic violence.
So that was a difficult time.
I was in that relationship foralmost 10 years and extricated
(03:21):
myself out of the relationshipwhen I was pregnant with my
daughter.
So I was four months pregnantwhen the relationship came to an
end, but it was the catalystthat led me to the career
coaching.
So the career coaching and thecareer transition started many
years ago, even before I turnedit into the business that it now
(03:44):
is, and it was out ofdesperation.
Really, the journey happenedbecause when the relationship
ended there was a lot of debt.
He walked away, I was left withthe debt.
I was four months pregnant andI was like I have to find a way
out of this, I have a child toraise, and so really I was
driven by the desire to makemore money.
(04:06):
I approached recruiters, Istarted to ask people for ways
and means and methods andstrategies on how I could
elevate my career, and I willsay there were many people who
helped me along the journey.
So the first lot of workbesties for me were the
recruiters and the hiringmanagers that I approached.
They gave me strategies.
(04:26):
I started writing and rewritingmy resume.
I've always written, even as achild growing up in South Africa
.
One of the ways that I processedall that difficult time was to
write.
So I wrote poetry.
I wrote little stories.
Writing was always a way for meto figure out the things I
couldn't figure out, and so Iused my love of writing and
(04:47):
words to rejig my resume.
But I approached the hiringpeople in the workplace.
That was the first place I gotsupport.
My first work besties were therecruiters and hiring people.
They taught me strategies onhow to interview and you know,
sometimes people sort of thinkwho's going to help me.
The message I want to say topeople is if you don't ask,
(05:10):
you're never going to know.
So I just asked.
I was pretty upfront.
I said this is my situation Ineed to make more money.
How do I get a job that's goingto make me more money, what are
the strategies I need to use?
And I find that when you'rereally authentic with people,
there are very few people thataren't going to help you.
So many people just stepped up,helped me, showed me what I
(05:31):
needed to do.
I practiced, practiced.
I started sending out my resumefor jobs that were probably not
jobs you would normally get,like.
I looked at my level ofexperience and my skills and I'm
like man, I'm aiming reallyhigh.
But I was like you know what?
I'm going to try it anyway.
You got to try.
You got to put yourself outthere and have a little bit of
(05:52):
courage, a little bit of faith,and I didn't get the very first
what I would call next levelrole that I went for.
I did the interview.
I didn't get the offer, but Iwent back to the interviewer and
I said can you give me feedback?
I know you've got a right tochoose whichever candidate you
want.
(06:12):
Clearly I wasn't the best onewho I would have gotten the job
offer.
But where can I improve?
And they were great.
They gave me the feedback.
They were like these are theareas where you spoke too long.
We asked you these type ofquestions and in some cases you
were just sort of rabbiting on.
You were talking for fiveminutes on an answer that should
have taken you two minutes.
I mean, this was detailedfeedback.
(06:34):
It taught me to start topractice in a way that was very
succinct in my answers.
I need to not leave out anyinformation, but there has to be
a better way to communicatethis information.
And one of the recruitersactually said to me you need to
always keep in mind thatrecruiters and hiring people are
(06:54):
busy people.
So when you show awareness ofhow busy they are by giving
sharp, succinct answers, they'realready impressed with you.
They they already looking atyou as a candidate who's doing
more than simply applying for ajob.
You're aware of the hiringperson as well, and that was a
strategy that was gold for me.
(07:15):
I literally started to applythat in every interview and then
, probably I'd say six or eightmonths after I started my whole
research, I landed the role thatI wanted and the role jumped my
income significantly by like$45,000, $50,000, which I was
not expecting, because my goalwas $20,000.
(07:36):
So I doubled what my vision wasand I was like there's
something here.
But then the people around mewho you know friends, family,
colleagues they knew what I'dbeen through, they knew the rock
bottom that I'd hit and theysaw this really big catapult
within six to eight months.
And so they started coming Likehow did you do that?
(07:58):
That was, in fact, where thebusiness was born, but part time
because I'd landed a big rolein corporate and I worked
corporate for 22 years before Idecided to make a change again,
and that was a change that wasinstigated by midlife and
menopause.
Jess (08:19):
Wendy, before we get into the midlife area, I do want to
ask a couple questions, becausewe do have a lot of work,
besties who are starting out intheir career, and you hit on
some areas that I think weassume everybody knows but is
worth it to comment on, and thatis you did a couple of really
impressive things that I don'tthink everyone likes to do.
(08:39):
One look at accepting that youdidn't get a job as a gift and
asking for feedback because youcan always learn.
I think that is ingenious.
And then the second area youhit on is when you were given
the feedback about being moresuccinct with your answers.
What was your approach?
(09:00):
Knowing, as you said, a lot ofthese individuals don't have a
lot of time and they just wantan answer.
Wendy Alexander (09:04):
Knowing, as you said, a lot of these
individuals, don't have a lot oftime and they just want an
answer.
What was your process toprepare?
So, for me, one of the things Idid was I went to a government
website and I asked the websitehow to interview succinctly,
right, and back then thegovernment had this framework
and they called it the SAOframework, which was describe
the situation, the actions youtook and the outcome.
(09:25):
And I literally started to copythat framework.
But what I did was I timedmyself.
So obviously, the first fewtimes I tried it out, I'm three
and a half.
I'm like no, no, no, they saidto me I need to get down to two
minute answers and so I wouldtime myself.
And then, slowly, from practice, you become more and more
succinct and all I did was likeokay, I just need to describe
(09:45):
the situation really quickly Twoto three actions I took.
What was the outcome?
Because interviewers always wantto see what the outcome is of
the actions you took in a joband you need to be focused on
conveying your contributions andyour achievements.
A lot of people make themistake of conveying their long
(10:06):
list of tasks andresponsibilities, but that
doesn't tell someone how you cancontribute to them.
They already know what aproject manager does.
They know what a CEO does.
They know what a financemanager does.
They don't need you toreiterate that right.
What they want to know is howdid you succeed in that
particular role?
What were some specific stepsyou took in some specific
(10:28):
situations that led to greatoutcomes?
But they don't always seekpositive outcomes because
sometimes you don't get apositive outcome.
Sometimes you might trysomething and it doesn't
actually give you the result youwant.
The key there is to thendescribe the lesson that you
learned, the growth that you hadthrough that particular
(10:50):
challenge, that maybe you didn'tget the outcome you wanted, but
you learned lesson one, two orthree.
What were the top three thingsyou learned through the
experience?
Because I see hiring people andmyself I was in corporate
hiring for a lot of majorprojects in Australia big ones,
$100 million projects and for meI always gave people a shot who
(11:12):
could tell me the growth thatthey went through through a
challenging experience.
If they didn't get the positiveoutcome, fine, what did you
learn?
You know, because growth isalso a positive.
It's another way of having apositive outcome.
Where people make the mistakes,like people starting out, is
they zone in on their long tasksand responsibilities which
(11:33):
nobody cares about, because thejob description already tells
them what it is.
They want to know how did youachieve?
Because the moment they knowhow you achieve, they already
know how you can contribute totheir company.
Right, if you can achieve thishere and here, that means you
can bring that same kind ofthinking, that same kind of
strategy, that same ability topivot and to think on your feet
(11:57):
into their company.
That's what people are lookingfor.
It becomes very much aboutoutlining your achievements
where you've succeeded beforeand using a framework situation,
action, outcome.
It's a very easy framework,easy to remember and you can
actually bring your answers backinto like two or two and a half
(12:18):
minute answers using thatframework.
But it is practice.
It took me a few goes before Iwas able to get and then once I
was able to keep it at that twominute, two and a half minute
mark, that is pretty much how Iinterviewed for the rest of my
career.
Claude (12:34):
Never it never failed me there was something also that
you said that I thought wasinteresting, where you tried
some position where you were notper se at that level.
There's always this impostersyndrome yeah, and we talk a lot
with Jess, I have a huge one.
(12:54):
So how did you actually getaway from this situation, from
this, and having the courage?
And because, at the end of theday, I think that the person
sees if you're not sure ofyourself or not- Absolutely
Women, especially midlife women.
Wendy Alexander (13:13):
I think we really suffer from imposter
syndrome in a big way.
Part of it is to do with allthe changes that's going through
our bodies.
We end up with brain fog, wehave insomnia, and so it dents
the confidence quite a bit.
I've seen that the fact that Iwas in corporate running major
(13:36):
projects for a lot of years whenI hit that midlife journey, I
did start to feel doubt myselfand I did start to feel like I
want to move in a differentdirection.
But who's going to give me theopportunity Now?
I had all the history thatpeople did give me opportunities
, because that's what happenedin my career From that moment
when I had transitioned intothis new job that paid me, you
(13:57):
know, more than I expected, orwell, my goal was 20, they gave
me 50.
I had the evidence that I coulddo it.
But something does happen to usat this stage.
I think also society'ssubliminal messages about women
and their usefulness in midlifegets into the brain somehow, and
so one of the things that I didwhen I was getting ready to
(14:20):
move out of corporate and changemy career, I actually did a
process on myself.
It is now a process that Iactually use with most of my
clients and I call it miningyour story, and I actually sat
down and I went through myentire career, also my personal
life, because people don't onlyachieve in their careers.
We achieve in our personal life.
(14:42):
I looked at what I had overcomein my life, from growing up in
South Africa, from survivingdomestic violence, from starting
women's groups to support womenthrough domestic violence.
I had a meditation group for alot of years that women used to
come to.
There is leadership andtransferable skills in all of
(15:04):
those things that I did.
So, even if I didn't have thejob specific skills at an
advanced level, I had all thesoft skills that those roles
required, and so I just startedto frame my resume, my LinkedIn,
my presence, very differently.
Soft skills are never going togo out of fashion, even with
(15:25):
emerging technology.
You still need peopleleadership.
You still need people to beable to work in teams.
You still need people to beable to be strategic in how they
work with clients.
You still need people to beable to work in teams.
You still need people to beable to be strategic in how they
work with clients.
You still need people to beable to connect to clients so
that they can advocate for theclient's success.
Those kinds of soft skills arenever going out of style, no
(15:45):
matter what industry you're in,and what I teach people to do is
to zone in on that rather thanzone in on the job-specific
skills, and also, to be honest,like I've put, helped people put
applications together wherewe've said, though I may not
have this particular skill.
For example, there's a lady Ijust helped in Denmark.
(16:06):
She wants to go for a role inrecruitment with a
non-for-profit organization whodoes work in Africa Now.
She speaks numerous languages,she's worked across numerous
international companies.
She doesn't have therecruitment skills, but she's
got everything else that theyneed.
So the application right up thefront.
We stated even though I don'thave recruitment skills, here's
(16:29):
where these five or six majorskills of mine is going to
benefit your organization.
And that's how you start toframework.
You zone in on what you do have, not on what you don't have,
because chances are you probablyonly don't have one or two
major skills, but you've goteverything else that they need.
It comes back to framing, notonly in your career documents so
(16:51):
your resume and your LinkedInbranding but when you interview
you need to have your examplesready and if they try and keep
taking you down a road of thisparticular skill, you keep
pushing them down the road ofthese five skills that you do
have.
You know, don't hide away fromthe fact that you don't have a
particular skill, or one skillor two skills that might be in
(17:13):
the job description Zone in onthe many that you do have.
Jess (17:18):
So it isn't that you don't have the skill.
It's like reframing how youhave the skill, but in a
different lens, and this is howyou can then still apply it to
the role that you are looking at.
Wendy Alexander (17:28):
Most of us learn on the job.
We don't come to a job withevery skill.
We learn about teamcollaboration A lot of the jobs.
We don't come to a job withevery skill we know.
We learn about teamcollaboration.
A lot of the jobs we go intouses different systems.
So sometimes we've got to learna different system to do HR
work or we might have to do adifferent system to do project
management work.
But the fact is we're alllearning all the time and I
think if you zone in on the factthat you a willing learner, you
(17:52):
a person that's interested inlifelong learning, that's a very
good phrase.
Lifelong learning, it's thebuzzword now in the hiring
industry and if you throw thatat them, they love it.
Jess (18:02):
Yeah, wendy, you commented before that you started
coaching people early on.
Wendy Alexander (18:08):
Yeah.
Jess (18:09):
Why, specifically, are you focusing on the midlife cohorts
?
What is it about the midlifethat you feel needs the most
area of attention?
Wendy Alexander (18:20):
Well, I think when people get to that midlife
and this is men and women whatI've seen with the men that I
coach is men make decisionsfaster.
So if they get to a stage wherethey're sick of the career,
they hate the job, they arereally onto it right.
They move very, very quickly,they make a decision, they
engage a coach and they goMidlife.
(18:40):
Women we tend to start doubtingourselves.
The imposter syndrome kicks in.
But how can I do it?
How do I make the change?
And I think, because I waschallenged myself.
I have that soft spot for women.
So it's where I've beenchanneling my work in the last
year or two trying to help womenidentify the skills, the
talents that they have to offer,but also help move them into a
(19:03):
career that's a lot lessstressful, because midlife and
menopause is stressful.
If you most of us go through itwith some symptoms, If it's not
mood swings, if it's notinsomnia, brain fog, all of
those things right, Anxiety, Allof us.
I had all the symptoms beingembarrassed because I'd be in a
(19:24):
meeting and at the time I wasthe only female on some of the
leadership teams, and suddenlymy blouse is sticking to my body
and the sweat is running downme and I had hot flashes with
nausea.
So I'd be like, oh my God, I'mgoing to throw up and you just
dash off and you don't even knowhow to explain to them.
(19:47):
Because when you come back intothe room, you're so embarrassed
you don't know how to tell themthat it's a sign or symptom of
menopause.
You're so embarrassed you don'tknow how to tell them that it's
a sign or symptom of menopause.
But that's one of theconversations that I want to
change.
Women should be able to say youknow what?
This is a symptom and I need tobe excused right now, without
getting men shift awkwardly orwhoever's on the leadership team
(20:09):
.
We haven't spoken enough aboutit.
We need our besties to be menthat are also championing our
causes in the workplace, butwe're the first champions.
We're the ones that shouldn'tbe embarrassed about it.
The conversation needs to be alot more open.
Jess (20:25):
I think your work besties can really help make that career
change less overwhelming,because it's somebody with that
support system.
Question for that one would bethen as we all go through these,
sometimes we do feel like we'realone in it.
What would be your advice forthem if they are struggling with
their career or looking forthat change?
Wendy Alexander (20:43):
Well, hr departments are probably the
first place to start, because alot of them have employee
assistant programs and, yes, alot of that might be focused on
something else, but who's goingto open up the conversation if
not you, right?
And also, when you go and speakto an HR representative,
there's a lot of confidentialityaround those conversations.
(21:04):
So, that's probably one of thefirst places you could start is
to go and have a conversation,see if there's something in
place at the organization, andif there isn't, you might have
to be brave enough to take it onand to instigate it and to come
with some recommendations, youknow.
Here's how I think we cansupport midlife women in the
(21:25):
workplace.
What I found as well and it'sinteresting this was an
interesting one for me because Iactually found the men a lot
easier to talk about Once Istarted to have the
conversations.
I got a lot of support from men.
That's interesting.
(21:45):
I think it may have hadsomething to do with the fact
that when I started to open upabout the conversation and bring
it up in the workplace, theyhad the understanding they have
wives, they have partners andsuddenly they were like aha, is
this what this is all about?
I'm living with this at home.
Jess (22:04):
I don't know what it is they're like.
No, it's all making sense yeah.
Wendy Alexander (22:09):
For them it was like wow, tell me more was kind
of the response I gotInteresting.
Now I know that that hasn'thappened in enough workplaces.
I believe that we can alwaysget better.
It goes back to authenticity,to what I said at the start of
the conversation when I wasstruggling as a single mom and I
just went and asked for help.
(22:30):
I didn't try and hide the factthat I was going through a very
difficult time, that I didn'tknow what I was doing, that I
needed to make more money.
I wasn't trying to posture.
I wasn't trying to put a braveface on or whitewash the
situation.
It was no, this is what it isand I need help.
(22:50):
And I found very similarconversations with when you're
authentic people unless they'rereally awful people and
mean-spirited people, peoplestep up to help you.
But what people don't like iswhen you're pretending People
can sense and feel that that'swhen people become reserved and
they won't step up and help orthey'll be a little bit
(23:12):
suspicious.
But if you're authentic and youshare, I certainly found.
Once I started speaking to theexecutive leaders I said look,
we need support for women.
This is what I'm going through.
This is why I'm running out ofthe meetings all the time
because I feel awful, I feellike I'm about to throw up, I
don't want to embarrass myself,whatever.
Whatever I said not every womangets nausea with hot flashes,
(23:32):
but some women do, I said.
But we need to create supportwhere women can feel like they
can say you know what, I'mhaving a moment, or even be
humorous about it.
I'm having a meno moment.
Claude (23:45):
I love it.
The thing is that I feel thatnowadays it's not as taboo as it
used to be.
Like we saw lately, a lot ofcelebrities came out and
actually say I'm going throughthat, I am really uncomfortable,
it's horrible.
So it's really teaching alsothe younger generation well, you
know, that's what's going tohappen and also to finally see
(24:08):
the people that are goingthrough that.
Okay, that's normal, it's notme that is going crazy, because
you believe sometimes thatthere's something wrong with you
.
They all say you know, youbecome another personality or
whatever with all those changes.
Wendy Alexander (24:24):
So what I really appreciate is that more
and more we talk about it andbecome you know, yes, the
conversation is definitely risenaround, like I've done lots of
talks on a lot of differentpodcasts and I can definitely
see that the conversation isopening up a lot more.
My menopause journey probablythe end of the tail end of it
(24:45):
was two or three years ago, butI had seven years.
I started very early.
I started at 45, which that wasanother thing that slammed me.
I wasn't ready for it, I wasn'tprepared mentally, and so I
think that's part of why Ireally struggled through it.
But it pushed me towardsdifferent things in my life,
which is now really supportingthe midlife woman, because I
(25:08):
know that that support has beenslim and I can see it starting
to gain traction, but it'snowhere near where it needs to
be.
Jess (25:15):
You know, there's still so it sounds like more people are
talking about it, there's moresupport, but they don't know
what to do.
Like there is no blueprint oroutside of them being advocates
of listening to you, they're notnecessarily doing anything yet
that's right.
Claude (25:31):
Going back to those symptoms that are not fun and
you know you helping with careercoaching and everything how do
you make those women reallyunderstand OK, it's OK to pivot.
How can you make them OK tochange despite all those changes
?
You know what I mean.
(25:51):
Like, because you cannot get toalleviate the symptoms.
So how do you make them morecomfortable?
Wendy Alexander (26:00):
Well, the Minding your Story is all about
going to look at the patterns,the skills, the things that you
automatically and naturally goodat.
Because if you're going to moveinto a career that, at this
stage of life, you want to moveinto one that's as stress-free
as possible, that means you needto move into something that's
going to make you happy, that'sgoing to make you want to get
(26:22):
out of bed on a Monday morningand go to that job.
If you're going to a job thatyou hate and you're going
through menopause and all theawful symptoms that come with it
, all that's going to do iscompound your stress, and when
we're stressful we don't makewise and smart decisions.
I've never seen anybody make asmart or wise decision when
(26:44):
they're super anxious or superstressed.
The first part of the work thatI do with women is we need to
dig into, we need to go mineyour story for your gold nuggets
.
What are the gold nuggets ofyou know Jess's story or
Claude's story?
Where has there been patternsin your life where things have
come easy to you, where you'renaturally good at it?
(27:05):
In my situation, I realized Ihad the ability to write Like
I've been writing since I wassix years old.
So I recognized that in mypattern was this ability with
words.
I was a wordsmith and I'm likehow can I use this wordsmith or
this love of words?
And the other pattern that keptshowing up was I was always
helping people, from the time Iwas a teenager growing up in
(27:26):
South Africa, working athomeless shelters and things
like that.
And I was like now, how do Icombine this, how do I combine
these two things that I know Iwould get up out of bed to do
every single day and be joyousabout it?
And that's how I actuallyestablished I was like well,
writing as a career coach, I wasdoing it very part time.
(27:47):
I'm like I can turn this into afull time business.
And then the other thing Istarted to do was copywriting
for small businesses, because alot of small businesses they
don't know how to brandthemselves and I'm like they
need words.
I can do words, I like words,and that is, in fact, how I
perverted and it's how I help alot of women identify what they
(28:09):
can contribute in the leaststressful way possible, because
that's the most important thingaround midlife and menopause for
women we need to reduce ourstress.
Jess (28:21):
So when you, if somebody comes to you and they say help
me, mind my story, you're notnecessarily saying to them you
need to shift a career.
You're actually just helpingthem understand what they like
and don't like.
Because you made the leap right, you they like and don't like
because, because you made theleap right, you said okay I like
writing.
I like helping people.
You've had that knowledge ofconnecting the data to an
(28:44):
opportunity, of what are someskill sets and jobs out there
that I can do.
How do these other peoplefigure that out?
Is it you coming to them oryou're just saying here's those
skills that you're strong in andletting them figure?
Wendy Alexander (28:55):
it out.
I help them identify the skillsthat they're strong in.
Then we look at can we usethose skills in the current
company?
Because if you don't have tomove companies and you just end
up sort of going into anotherbusiness unit, well that's
better, that's an easytransition, right.
But if you find that the skillsthat we've now identified are
(29:17):
your strongest and there isn'tan opportunity in your company,
so you now need to shift into anew company.
I never encourage people tojust leave a job because then
you're going to put yourselfunder financial strain.
Jess (29:29):
And you're actually adding more stress, potentially
because you have to reinventyourself.
Wendy Alexander (29:33):
Absolutely.
Jess (29:34):
And if it's not something you really love, why bother?
Wendy Alexander (29:37):
Why bother?
So the other way to gaintraction in something is to go.
Okay, I've identified this setof skills.
How can I do it on a volunteerbasis, for maybe an hour, two
hours a week, potentially at acompany?
I used to actually volunteerwith collecting food for the
homeless here in Australia and Imet some amazing CEO type
(30:00):
people doing the same thing.
One or two of them gave me anopportunity.
Right, we packing food togetheron a Saturday, we start talking
and next thing you know they'regoing.
I could do with someone likeyou in my company.
So you make connections throughvolunteering.
Right, there's so many ways youcan segue into an opportunity,
(30:21):
and that's one of the things Ilike helping people do is shift
the mindset about this is theonly path.
No, it isn't the only way foryou.
There are so many ways.
The other way is we'veidentified where your talents
are.
Now let's go identify the kindof companies you might want to
work with.
Okay, so this is a longer game,but you play the game right.
It's like okay, so these arethe top 10 companies that you
(30:44):
think you might want to go workfor.
Now we go to linkedin.
Who are the decision makers inthat company.
Look at the hr managers, lookat the ceos, look at the middle
management.
Start, start to friend thosepeople, start to follow them,
start to like their posts,comment on their posts, because
now you're going to startnetworking and build a
relationship.
Now maybe that's a six-monthgame or even a 12-month game,
(31:07):
but by the time you've finishedand build those connections, you
are now in front of that personBecause I know with me when
people connect to me.
You are now in front of thatperson Because I know with me.
When people connect to me, ifthey've been following my posts
and they've been commenting onit, I know who they are.
The moment they reach out to meand say can you help me?
I know who they are becauseI've seen them comment and like
(31:28):
on my posts.
So I am likely to accept thatconnection.
And then when they ask for helpor tips or strategies, I'm
happy to send them quick tipsand strategies when they come
ready to work with me.
We already have some kind ofrelationship going.
People don't respond to peoplewho just reach out and go can
you help me?
But you've actually givennothing to that person, right?
Jess (31:49):
You have no connection.
They're like just can you giveme a job?
Wendy Alexander (31:52):
You're like no, it's like no.
I've had people say to me canyou pass my resume around?
Well, actually no, because Idon't know you and I don't know
what you'd like as a person.
I have a reputation inAustralia.
I have a lot of hiring peoplethat I work with.
I'm only going to open mynetwork to you if I get to know
you a little bit, because I'mnot going to tank my reputation,
(32:13):
right?
No, I'm not going to do that,but I will help someone who is
also willing to give, and evenif that giving is commenting on
my post, sharing, asking mequestions and I've now sent you
emails back and forth, or we'vesent messages and I've given you
tips on how to interview andthe other thing that here's a
(32:33):
tip that has always worked andI'll say this to people when you
go for interviews, even if youdon't get the job.
This is something that workedreally well for me and it still
works really well for me, evenin my new business is send thank
you notes to people.
Job, thank people for theopportunity, because I can tell
(32:57):
you one thing you're going to befront of their mind, you're
going to be staying in theirmind and when the next
opportunity comes.
You're the person they're goingto reach out to, because they
remembered you from simplethings like that.
Claude (33:07):
Yeah, it's so funny because, you know, with Jess, at
some point when we were workingtogether, we were interviewing
the same candidate and a lot ofthem we were like, did you
receive a thank you note?
Wendy Alexander (33:19):
I didn't, you know, and we were actually
shocked that people would notsend it it's a simple thing, but
it is a very effective strategyfor putting yourself front of
mind for a hiring person.
I always send them and Iencourage every person I work
with.
I in fact, when someone has hadan interview my clients and
(33:43):
they go oh, I had an interview,I go.
Did you send the thank you note?
They go oops, I go send it now.
Like seriously, because peopleknow people, even if this
recruiter doesn't have the rightjob for you, they're working
with three or four otherrecruiters who might have the
right job for you.
They're working with three orfour other recruiters who might
have the right job for you andthey're going to go.
This person was so great towork with, they had great
(34:03):
manners, they sent me a thankyou note.
They're going to pass yourresume on to that other
recruiter.
Opportunities are everywhereand all it takes is just a
little bit of basic manners.
Jess (34:16):
Not just the recruiting or HR but to the person you're
interviewing with too, becausein some of the examples Klaan
and I are talking, oh, thatindividual would have been
perfect for this otherdepartment not ours and if they
wrote a thank you we could havesaid like hey, we actually know
of another job.
Did you think about applyingfor that one?
And then you instantly havelike a connection in the company
(34:36):
.
So you just that's your point.
Wendy Alexander (34:38):
You never know, just putting it out there can
potentially really lead to abigger, bigger, broader
opportunity yeah, back to thetheme of your podcast, it you
need to be building your workbesties everywhere, everywhere.
Sometimes you have closer workbesties than others, but always
be building them.
Building them everywhere,because you don't know where
(35:01):
your opportunity is going tocome from.
I had people who reported to meI was their manager.
They left, they you know theyleft and went for another job
and then two years later theycontacted me and go, there's a
managerial.
And then two years later theycontacted me and go there's a
managerial, there's a PM managerrole here and they would put my
resume forward.
So some of my opportunitiescame from people that I once
(35:23):
looked after, that once reportedto me.
Right, and so treat people well, create bestie relationships
all over the place, because youdon't know who's going to create
the next one.
Jess (35:35):
Yeah, so I was going to ask you how important is that
community?
But you've already hit that.
Yeah, it would be strongly thatyour community is very
important, so why don't I askthis instead?
Do you have any go-to tips tohelp continue to build that now?
Wendy Alexander (35:49):
So one of the things that I don't see a lot of
people doing but when they doit it is pure gold is okay, you
didn't maybe get the job offerthat you wanted, but if you know
someone is really good for ajob, you know they've got the
kind of skills that potentiallyyou refer that onto that
recruiter.
I'm telling you you will beemployed always, because the
(36:10):
moment you give to people likethat, you go.
You know what?
I know I didn't get that job,that job, but you know, I know
you were looking for this, thisand this, and here's, here's
someone who I know wouldprobably be good, and you refer
that person onto that recruiteror onto that hiring manager.
They will never forget you,they will never forget you and
they will make it their businessto look out for you.
(36:31):
It's just the way the cycleworks.
And also the person that youend up referring on like I've
referred people on to rolesthey've never forgotten what
I've done for them.
So when opportunities come, youknow they send it.
When I was in corporate, theywould send me.
I never, never, had to job huntagain.
Everything happened through thenetwork.
(36:51):
People just kept referring meon for various reasons.
Sometimes it was simply becauseI was a good manager to my
staff and I looked after themand I helped grow their career
and I helped write their resumes.
I never held people to me.
For me it's like if you'reready to grow, then my job as a
manager is that I've got to helpyou grow.
So if I help you write a resumeso you can go to another
(37:13):
company and get what you want,people don't forget that.
And similarly, when you refergood people onto them, the
community just has to keepgrowing.
You keep giving, you keepgiving, you keep being a work
bestie to as many people as youcan be, and you will never have
to hunt for a job.
Claude (37:32):
It's going back again and supporting each other for a
job.
It's going back again andsupporting each other, right,
supporting this community,absolutely.
Jess (37:39):
People, you don't always be just about yourself.
Exactly Like I said, I thinkeven to your point supporting
others and finding solutions orideas for others it winds up
supporting you longer term too.
It's an interesting thing thatcontinues to.
It's just like the gift thatkeeps on giving.
So, wendy, who would be anideal candidate for you?
Like what, what, who?
Who should be thinking to reachout to you?
Wendy Alexander (38:01):
I work with all kinds of people, but I've
pivoted the business to mostlythe midlife woman.
But that doesn't mean I don'twork with midlife men because,
as I said, a lot of my clientsare senior men, senior
executives.
They're easy to work withbecause they tend to make very
fast decisions.
Men I don't know what it is inthe brain, they just go I need
(38:24):
to change and they go boom.
Women need to think through it,but that's the kind of person I
like to work with, because Iwas there too.
I was lacking in confidence andfeeling a little bit battered
by all the changes going on inmy body, and so I can speak to
women from that place.
I can share my journey and howdifficult it was and that,
despite the fact that it wasthat difficult, you can make the
(38:47):
change.
Claude (38:49):
Just thinking about it, making the, you know, making the
changes.
But is it for to go to anothercompany?
Because a lot of time we hearokay, I'm 47, I'm 50, I will
never find a job, right, I amtoo old, I'm so close to
retirement.
So you see that you actuallycompany, do hire midlife,
(39:12):
midlife women and you do hiremidlife women.
Wendy Alexander (39:15):
There's a new buzz phrase called the silver
tsunami and it's going on in theworld.
I work with people all acrossthe world.
Companies have recognizedespecially after the pandemic,
they have recognized that peopleare struggling with confidence.
People are struggling with evenknowing how to communicate with
(39:39):
one another.
What they've seen is that thesilver-haired people, us okay,
so mine's died the midlifepeople.
We come with the experience, wecome with the battle wounds, the
scars of working througheveryday life, challenge, work,
life, all of that.
And so companies are pivotingand they're looking more for the
midlife person, the one that'sgot some experience but it's
also still young enough to workwith the young ones and work
(40:02):
with the older level ofleadership.
So we are actually the silvertsunami is on the rise.
We are in demand, but we needto have the confidence to
present ourselves.
So that's what I'm seeing.
Certainly, I'm seeing thesilver tsunami and if you look
it up, it is the rise in hiringfor that midlife person.
So this is our time and itprobably will be our time for
(40:24):
the next 10 years.
I'd say so if you're going tojump on it, now's the time.
Jess (40:28):
You brought it up all the way in the beginning of the
podcast about including yoursoft skills.
It is one thing I believe wedon't see very often in resumes.
I agree with you, though,because a lot of those soft
skills especially not justmanaging your whole household,
but a lot of us are runningprograms for our kids, their PTA
, whatever.
And then to your point, likeyou're probably doing some stuff
(40:50):
on the side too, whether you'rehosting a book club or, you
know, a weekly social with yourneighborhood A lot of these
things take leadership skillsthat we don't give ourselves the
credit for, and we should beyeah.
Wendy Alexander (41:05):
You're a leader , you're organizing, yeah, just
about framing it up and that's.
I suppose some people can writethey love words, like I do, and
as long as you know how toframe it up, you're going to be
able to get opportunities.
But if you don't, then findsomeone who can help you.
Claude (41:21):
And it's really recognizing what we have and
owning them and being proud ofit.
We always say, woman, or, forexample, something you know, oh,
I love your dress or whatever,oh, I got it on set right.
We always downplay, downplay.
So it is important for us torealize we have to stop that and
(41:42):
really own what we have,because it's fantastic.
We have a lot of great softskill.
Wendy Alexander (41:48):
A simple thank you is a great answer to many
compliments.
I think we're not trained to dothat Society.
I remember being taught as ayoung girl you have to be demure
and you don't boast or brag.
And it's not about boasting orbragging, it's just about simply
saying if someone pays you acompliment, thank you very much.
The more you do that, the moreyou actually hear more
(42:12):
compliments and the more it getsinto the psyche and you become
more and more comfortable owningyour unique skills and hiring
people hire confidence that'sthe fundamental thing that they
do.
So if you're confident and youown your skills, people are
going to go.
I need that person on my teamBecause that is the kind of
(42:32):
person that instills confidencein other people.
But if you're alwaysdownplaying your skills, then
that doesn't instill confidencein someone.
Claude (42:40):
Yeah.
And nobody is going to want tohire you.
Jess (42:43):
So, wendy, I have one last question for you.
What is that?
One piece of advice you'd givesomebody who isn't quite ready
to make the change, or maybeunsure of wanting to make a
change?
Wendy Alexander (42:56):
So I would say to people explore.
Start to dig into yourselfearly.
Do the foundational piecesbefore you're even ready to make
a change right.
Start to identify what is itthat I really love?
What is it that I really wantto do?
Where can I go?
Do it.
Okay, I may not be ready to makethat change in this year, I may
(43:16):
only be ready in 18 months orin 12 months, but start to
explore.
Explore so that you can thenhave some idea of the direction,
because a person withoutdirection or without a plan is
literally not going to hit anykind of goal right.
You're spinning around and so,if you have the time, if you're
(43:38):
the fortunate person who's in ajob and you go, you know what?
I'm not ready to make thechange for another year or 18
months.
Start exploring now, so that bythe time you're ready to make
the change, all the foundationalwork has been done already,
because you don't want to get toa point where you're so
stressed out, you're so anxious,you're hating your job so much.
Now you're trying to make thechange and you've now got to go.
(43:59):
Do all the foundational workfirst, because that's time
wasting, that's going to put youunder more stress.
So if you have even theslightest thought in your mind I
think I want to change mycareer or I think I want to go
work for a different company,but maybe I want to do that in
12 months time or 18 months, Getmoving on the foundational
pieces now.
Claude (44:22):
Thank you so much, Wendy .
Any parting words?
Wendy Alexander (44:26):
One thing I will say to women, midlife women
self-care is super important.
Make sure that that's happening.
Alongside any kind of change.
Self-care is my number onepriority, because if this body
and this mind isn't working,then nothing works, not for a
long period of time, so true.
Claude (44:45):
Well, thank you so much, Wendy, for your incredible
insight.
We love it Really.
This episode was a masterclassin transforming midlife
challenges into opportunities.
And again, some great words,mind your story and important to
(45:06):
have those lifelong you knowlearning.
It's never too late, so makesure that you have a work bestie
to help you on this journey.
And thank you so much and shareto all the work besties out
there and keep lifting eachother.
Jess (45:23):
Remember whether you're swapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings or just sending
that perfectly timed meme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
squad.
Claude (45:36):
So keep lifting each other, laughing through the
chaos and, of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Work besties.
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