April 28, 2025 • 39 mins
What if building a more inclusive workplace wasn’t as complicated or corporate as you think
This week on Work Besties Who Podcast, Claude and Jess sit down with powerhouse inclusion expert and author Delphia Howze — and this conversation will change how you show up at work 🔥
Delphia, whose new book Including You: Leading Inclusion From Where You Are is a must-read, shares why inclusion is a personal responsibility, not just something for HR or leadership to figure out
She delivers real, honest advice about modeling inclusive behavior, understanding our biases, and why grace and self-reflection are essential tools for real change
If you’ve ever felt excluded, wondered how to actually make a difference, or wanted to be a better ally — this episode gives you the roadmap
And yes, it starts with your work besties too
✨ Inclusion isn’t optional
✨ Leadership is everyone’s job
✨ Changing the culture starts with you
Come listen — your future team will thank you
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jess (00:00):
Hello, workbesties, have you ever felt like your
workplace is missing somethinglike that true inclusivity, the
belonging and the support thatwe always love to talk about?
Well, today we're talking withsomeone very special who's
changing that.
Delphia Howes is a powerhousein HR and diversity inclusivity,
(00:22):
leading the charge in creatingworkplace dynamics where
everyone can thrive.
She's breaking down thosebiggest mistakes that companies
make and how work besties canreally be allies, which I know
you love chatting about.
And stay tuned to the very,very end, because you will hear
that one simple change that youcan make today, that one simple
(00:43):
change that you can make today.
Claude (00:44):
So if you care about workplace culture and making a
real impact, you don't want tomiss that, so let's dive in Hi.
I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
Jess (01:00):
We are corporate employees by day, entrepreneurs by night
and work besties for life.
Join us as we explore how workbesties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry.
Welcome Hi Delphia.
Delphia Howze (01:14):
We're so excited to have you.
How are you?
I'm so happy to be here.
Jess (01:18):
We thought you could kick it off by telling our work
bestie community a little bitabout yourself, sure?
Delphia Howze (01:24):
So my name is Delphia Howes, and I do believe
that I'm probably the only onewith that name in the world, and
so I'm easy to find, but I aman individual who has been doing
the work of inclusion for morethan 25 years, quite honestly,
and I'm very passionate about it.
I am the owner of DHowSolutions, which is a
consultancy around inclusionstrategy.
(01:45):
I am also the author of a booktitled Including you that was
just released, which focuses onhow we can create more inclusive
environments one by one, andthat everyone has a level of
responsibility to do so.
I'm also an executive for alarge scale national entity that
I have to keep separate, um,but it's but.
(02:09):
So I you know, I've been doingthis work for a long time and I
love it.
Jess (02:12):
Very impressive and very important.
So it sounds like you you'vegot a lot on your plate.
But in the past cause I lookedat your resume you've worked at
a number of different industrieskind of varied too, not all
similar.
So I'm curious from yourperspective, what's been that
defining moment in your career?
Delphia Howze (02:34):
My defining moment in my career.
So, full transparency.
When I was in college, my dreamwas to go and become the top
attorney in the world, right,take the world by storm.
I quickly learned once Ientered law school that that
probably was not a good idea forme.
And the defining moment in mycareer was when I was in banking
(02:58):
.
I was in a position where I wasa bank officer and I had
responsibility for a number oflocations regional banks and I
realized that we were not asprofitable in some areas as
opposed to others.
And I just started to do someassessing in terms of who we
were engaging with, how we wereengaging, who were the managers
(03:20):
that I was hiring, who we werebringing in to lead these
efforts?
Were the managers that I washiring, who we were bringing in
to lead these efforts, andrealized quite quickly that
there was a disconnect in termsof who we hired and how they
were able to connect with thecommunity, to build
relationships and essentiallywhat the challenge was.
We would bring in individualsfrom college backgrounds and
(03:40):
have them in urban settings, whothey weren't familiar with,
interacting with that type ofenvironment, and I said, hey,
wait a minute, we have a problemhere, we're missing opportunity
.
I spoke to our president and heliterally said Delphia, I don't
know what to do with it.
If you can figure it out and ifit's that important to you, do
something about it.
(04:01):
And that's probably the worstthing that anyone could ever say
to me, because I go full speedahead From there.
I started the first diversityprogram.
I focused on affirmative actionprogramming.
I also focused on how are webuilding relationships within
the community and built theirfirst program for that bank, and
that's how I got started intothis work.
It was all about how do wecreate connections.
(04:22):
Ultimately, inclusion.
Back then I wasn't thinkingabout the terminology, but that,
I think, was a defining moment.
Jess (04:28):
That's really impressive because it's to your point.
It wasn't necessarily somethingthat was discussed or talked
about then At the ethos of it.
That is how we all need to bethinking, how you want to
connect to your community andreally kind of develop that, and
I love that you leaned in, youwere like challenge me, I will
take that.
Claude (04:45):
And it's so funny because you say it's the worst
that someone can say to me.
But it's actually it's the bestIf you think about it.
That's the best that someonecould tell you, because then you
were able to implement.
You know, this program.
Delphia Howze (05:00):
Yeah, that's true .
And and it made me feel anelement of trust and support at
the same time, because I, youknow, either he really didn't
care, which is possible or hetrusted in my ability to do
something impactful.
So yeah, it's a double edgedsword, but you know I'll take
the challenge any day.
Jess (05:17):
That's great.
So I kind of think that parlaysperfectly into why we were so
excited to chat about you, whichis to really dig into the
diversity and inclusivity.
What's that biggestmisconception about diversity
and inclusivity that you canthink of?
Delphia Howze (05:33):
that happens in the workplace, I think the
biggest misconception is thatit's all about them, those
people over there.
It's only for someone else otherthan me, whoever I am.
I think that lends to thechallenge that it's all about
others, it's all about a certaindemographic group, it's all
(05:54):
about preferential treatment andillegal discrimination and all
of these things.
I think that that hugemisconception has led us to
where we are today with therevoking of executive orders and
the attack on DEI, and I dobelieve that we as a society
(06:15):
have not defined it well, whichis why that's where we are.
Everyone's coming at it from somany different points of
understanding and if you breakdown diversity, equity,
inclusion, independently, not asan acronym, as words, diversity
is about mixture, right.
Equity is about fairness.
Inclusion is about bringingpeople together and so when you
(06:36):
think about it that way, it'sall about eradicating the
misconception that when yousmush those letters together,
that acronym together, that itmeans others and discrimination
and reverse discrimination andall of these negative things.
So I think that's the biggestmisconception in the workplace
that it doesn't have that I,whoever I am, have a part.
(06:58):
I think that's fair.
Jess (06:58):
One of the misconceptions is that it starts at the
executive level and it's justsupposed to be there.
While I do, misconceptions isthat it starts at the executive
level and it's just supposed tobe there.
While I do believe there's arole for the executives and
we'll get to that in a minutewhat do you think?
Where do you think the mostimpact can occur from a DEI
within a workplace?
Delphia Howze (07:16):
Yeah, I think the greatest impact can occur from
individual perspectives.
So we can put policies, laws,regulations out there all day
long, but if they're not withregard to this work, if they're
not coming from a place ofintimacy, passionate intimacy
around this work, then I thinkwe're missing the boat
(07:40):
perspective of someone leaninginto the opportunity to
understand themselves and tounderstand the topic in the
environment and recognize thatothers right, whoever we
consider as others really arevaluable in any in our
environments, in our world.
Claude (07:58):
And how do you handle the resistance from the
leadership?
Delphia Howze (08:03):
I've handled that in many different situations.
Unfortunately, the biggest waythat I've been able to overcome
that resistance is by making itpersonal.
So when I have an executive orany employee or any individual
who I'm working with who says,no, that's not important, and,
believe me, I've had seniorlevel executives say, delphia, I
(08:24):
don't even know why you're here, this isn't important.
But when you break it down tohelp them to see how it impacts
their world, how they are a partof this, it makes it easy.
I'll give you a perfect example.
I once worked with a senior vicepresident in one of my former
organizations and he was blessedwith two daughters, right, and
(08:44):
both were in college.
They were a year apart, one hadgraduated and the other was
preparing to graduate college.
And he said to me Delphia, mydaughter is not getting hired,
getting positions.
And he suspected it was becauseshe was a young woman and he
worked in a male-dominatedindustry, so he kind of knew the
language that was going around.
(09:04):
Long story short, he said Idon't understand why she's not
getting these opportunities whenshe is very well qualified for
it and should be hired.
And I said, well, let's thinkabout it.
Where is she applying and whois she applying with?
And he broke it and I didn'tsay anything else and he started
looking down the list and saidI see what this, this element of
(09:28):
the concept of the reversediscrimination, is coming from.
He was able to now internalizehow he potentially impacted
other women.
Right, that experience that hehad, because prior to that
(09:50):
conversation he said you knowwhat?
I probably have thwartedopportunities for success for
women because I don't believethat they can be successful in
this dynamic workplace.
Right, that was his mindset.
Not that he was wrong for havingthat, but that's what he
believed he believed work wasdemanding, work was challenging,
that women were going to comein, they were going to raise a
(10:12):
family, they were going to gooff and have babies and they
couldn't commit to the work.
But now he saw from the otherside the impact someone that he
loved, someone that was a partof his world and he saw how that
was negatively impacting them.
Claude (10:26):
I think one of the biggest consumption also is that
people think of DEI that wewould put, for example, let's
say, a woman in a positionbecause we need to have more
women.
She got into that positionbecause she's a woman, not
because of her qualificationwhen it's totally woman, not
(10:46):
because of her qualificationwhen it's totally different.
Right At the end of the day,you're not going to push someone
that has better qualificationfor someone that is lesser
qualified, but you need to doyour quota.
I think that's also a bigmisconception.
Delphia Howze (11:01):
Yes, and it's a challenge because we've gotten
into this mindset where somepeople believe that, as women
minorities, whatever the casemay be, we're getting into the
workforce that it wasn'tmerit-based.
Any employer or recruiter ormanager that's hiring someone
(11:21):
should always be looking for thebest qualified candidate,
always right.
It shouldn't be.
Oh well, we need women, we needa person of color, so let's go
and pick one and pluck one, andunfortunately that has happened.
That's probably happened insome organizations, but the
reality is that's not the way itshould be and it doesn't create
(11:42):
an opportunity for ameritocracy for people to get in
based off of their merit andtheir ability to be successful.
Think about the person who getsinto a position just because,
oh yeah, you're the quota, solet's get in here and put you in
here.
That's not setting anyone upfor success, their ability to be
(12:07):
successful, barring anythingelse.
Jess (12:10):
Right and I think the point of the DEI initiatives
wasn't necessarily to createways to navigate around that.
It was to remind people of likeeverybody has strong
qualifications and you shouldn'tbe creating those biases or
misconceptions ahead of time, toput everybody on the level
playing field and let themshowcase those skills and
(12:31):
qualities.
Delphia Howze (12:32):
to you Absolutely .
It's all about opening thedoors right.
Unfortunately, throughout ourhistory, the doors were closed
to certain groups and certainindividuals.
And those individuals some ofthem had the qualifications that
would meet, but they couldn'teven get their toe, couldn't
even get a toenail in the doorright.
So it was all about opening thedoor so that we can really see
(12:55):
a full landscape of viablecandidates from all groups.
Jess (13:11):
Missed that opportunity and somehow we got waylaid in
what our intention was aroundDEI, which I think is part of
the challenge as to why we're soalong that Delphia.
I do think there are someinstances where it's not
intentional.
Let's say that organizations orindividuals are purposely doing
this, but it is a lot of timesbeing overlooked and not
addressed.
So are there certain workplacecultures or elements that you've
(13:31):
consistently seen that areunintentional ways that the DEI
initiatives are being excluded?
Delphia Howze (13:38):
Yeah, that they're being excluded.
When you think about DEI and itbeing excluded away from
opportunities for successtowards the organizational
mission.
I do believe that whenindividuals, whether it's
leadership or employees, or theorganizational culture as a
whole, does not have an elementor a foundation rooted on the
(14:04):
why, why are they doing this?
What's the reason?
Why are they focusing onelements of diversity, equity,
inclusion, belonging, why isthat even necessary?
If they can't answer thatquestion, that's where the
exclusion and themisunderstandings come forward.
Because if you're doing it justto check the box or just to you
(14:25):
know, one up your competitor orjust to you know, for whatever
reason, then and you're notanswering an absolute why,
that's where the challenge comesin and I will say if you're
doing a DEI initiative, it'snever going to be successful.
If you have DEI programming, ifyou have, you know, things that
(14:45):
are set aside from theorganizational structure, that's
where you're missingopportunity.
It should be an everyday, woven, fluid opportunity to create a
foundation and a sustainableenvironment that's rooted in
valuing employees, your people,and creating an environment of
inclusion and, ultimately,success.
Jess (15:07):
Right.
Claude (15:08):
So not creating some of that separation but the
interwoven element, AbsolutelyBecause then when you put it
just a program on its side, thenit doesn't make it authentic,
right?
Yes, yes.
Jess (15:20):
As you know, our whole ethos of this podcast is about
work besties.
As you know, our whole ethos ofthis podcast is about work
besties and we're big proponentsof supporting each other not
just your own individual workbesties, but the whole work
bestie community out there.
So how can this strong workbestie community that we've
created, how can they contributeto this cause and help with?
Delphia Howze (15:40):
the DEI.
Yes, I love that question.
I think the big thing issupporting one another, right?
This isn't easy, right, becauseit deals with emotion, it deals
with baggage that people have,it deals with elements of
discomfort and evenmisunderstanding, and then you
have to add in all of thesocietal rhetoric that goes
along with it.
So I think the big thing is inthe bestie community is really,
(16:03):
I actually have to.
I think the first thing isreally shining the flashlight on
yourself, right, understandingyour very own perspective and
comfort level with this topic,right?
Many of us grow up in areas thatinsulate us, right?
We grow up in a family withpeople who look like us.
(16:24):
We live in communities withpeople who look and think like
us.
We learn from that community incertain ways, and so there's
all these little bubbles ofdifferent types, and I'm not
talking just about race orgender, I'm talking about just
different points of diversity ofthought and things of that
nature.
Once we take time to understandour perspectives, understand our
biases that we have, because weall have them get comfortable
(16:47):
with those biases and understandhow we can mitigate them
effectively, right, I thinkthat's step number one.
You have to do that internalreflection first.
Step number two is then takingtime to pull in your bestie,
your work bestie, and say, hey,I see you right, and realize
that it's impossible to see theworld completely without the
(17:11):
perspectives of others.
It's just impossible.
So, allowing that time forinternal reflection and then the
opportunity to pull in otherswith regard to seeing them
completely, for all the thingsthat you thought you knew and
all the things you do not know.
Claude (17:29):
Yeah, I love this and I have an example actually for
myself where, about pullingsomeone right, we a friend of
mine we have something in commonand like, for example, it was
our children and this is some.
It's an individual that we'rein different work of life,
different you know paths, and Iwould have never been friend
(17:51):
with her and because we had thissomething in common, we became
friends and we really becamevery much friends.
It would have been if we hadthat bias.
And because we are not comingfrom the same you know culture,
the same, whatever social, Iknow that without this friend my
life would have been muchemptier.
(18:12):
So I love to have this, youknow, pulling people that are
different from us.
And again, it doesn't.
It's not about race, aboutgender, about social economy.
If you don't extend yourself topeople, you might miss a lot
and something in your life thatis going to be enriched.
Delphia Howze (18:32):
So, very true, I agree with you 100%.
That's a path that is not easyto do, right, because sometimes
we just want people to be likeus.
Right?
We all like ourselves right, wethink we're great and wonderful
, right, everybody else needs toget their stuff together, right
, we're good, but the reality,reality.
I love what you said, I agreewith your perspective and we
(18:53):
just need to be able to pullpeople in and and um be able to
see the world from differentperspectives in order to fully
understand the world right.
Jess (19:03):
We learn from each other.
We're patchwork.
For a reason we should not beexact replicas of each other.
Claude (19:09):
No, that was it's boring .
Delphia Howze (19:10):
Yes, it would be boring, it would be really
boring, it would be so boring.
Claude (19:14):
Like we always laugh right, like we are the yin and
the yang.
It is so true, we are sodifferent, but we have this
friendship in common and ourdifference what makes it
exciting.
Jess (19:27):
Yeah, we challenge each other every single day.
I love it, whether we want toor what makes it exciting.
Delphia Howze (19:31):
yeah, absolutely yeah, we challenge each other
every single day.
Jess (19:34):
Yeah, it's the same in a marriage right, yeah, oh yeah.
Delphia Howze (19:36):
We we marry, you know, people who we love, and
some will say our best friendsand and all of that.
That's true, they bring adifferent perspective right,
drive you crazy sometimes, yes,but love them dearly because
they, you know, my husband helps.
He is the total opposite of me.
If we do any personalityassessments, we're always, like
(19:58):
you know, the polar opposites.
Polar opposites, right, and.
But I love it because we, we,we ground each other.
Yeah, you know, we bring intolight what the others cannot see
, yeah, what the other can't see.
And it can be frustrating andmaddening sometimes, but it's
definitely valuable when you getover that frustration.
Jess (20:17):
You bring up some really good points too, that you want
to surround yourself withdifferent perspectives and
personalities and ways of being,and you'll get to a point at
some point where you do havethat trust so you don't have to
worry about it.
But you still want to push theboundaries and be okay with
people you don't trust yet, justbecause it's good to have a
(20:38):
remembrance that there's so manydifferent people out there and
that you could lean in and windup becoming close to these
people.
Claude (20:44):
Exactly.
And then sometimes, if you'renot, you don't have this thing
where you have.
It's okay also.
At least you reach out, you canstill help.
You don't become besties orwhatever, but at least you bring
your hand.
Delphia Howze (21:00):
Yes yes, yes, and you don't allow your biases to
impede that opportunity, right.
You know, biases are a part ofus for a reason, right.
They're designed to keep ussafe to, you know, steer are are
a part of us for a reason,right.
They're designed to keep ussafe to, uh, you know, steer us
away from those things thatmight cause us discomfort or
harm or what have you.
And if we encounter someone whovisually represents something
(21:21):
that's not comfortable for us,that we don't understand, that
we may not like or what have you, our natural tendency is to
kind of pull away from that.
I say, lean into it, right?
I've been doing this work formore than 25 years and I still,
very recently even, hadsituations where I saw someone
and I'm like I should stay awayfrom that and, for whatever
(21:42):
reason, we ended up talking justbecause I run my mouth so much.
But we ended up talking and Ilearned so much from this
individual.
I'm thinking about a gentlemanwho had a hat on that was very
offensive to me and we were at ahotel, in the lobby bar, and I
saw him like oh my gosh, I can'tsit next to him, but it was the
(22:06):
only seat, so I sat there andjust through us ordering, we
started talking and then as wetalked, that trust built a
little bit and I was able to askhim about his hat and I said
help me to understand what itmeans.
It was pretty graphic, so Iwon't even say what it was.
I'm curious, and why would youhave that on your head?
(22:26):
And he explained it to me andfrom what he shared it made
perfect sense.
But because it wasn't a part ofmy experience and it gave me
discomfort, I was ready to writehim off and I'm so glad that I
didn't, because we had afantastic conversation it's
again this inclusion right.
Jess (22:44):
It goes back to inclusion absolutely interesting and I'm
like really curious to know whatwas on the hat to tell us off
the pod.
Claude (22:52):
And I think also it takes a strong person to still
go behind the bias and open upand trying to understand the
other side.
It's not that easy?
Jess (23:05):
Not at all.
In fairness, I don't know ifit's not that it's not that easy
.
It's just that our brains arewater to do the easiest thing,
which is shut down and becomecomfort like stay in your little
bubble yeah, so I think it'slike you brought it up in one of
your very first answers it'sthe recognition.
Once you recognize, then itcontinue to challenge yourself
because, I agree, there's somany times, adelphia, that I
(23:28):
randomly will talk to peoplethat I had no real intention of
having a connection with and youwind up having these really
heartwarming conversations andit's just because you took I
took the chance.
I could have been rude, I couldhave just walked right by, but
you took a chance yeah,absolutely, absolutely, and I
love what you said.
Delphia Howze (23:45):
The brain, our brains, are so darn lazy, right,
right, they, they do.
You know, we take those mentalassociations, the path of least
resistance.
Right, that's what, that's whatit does.
And if we don't check ourselvesto go be to step outside of
that, we miss thoseopportunities.
We're, like you said, building,meeting great people, you know,
building good relationshipswith others that we would have
(24:07):
never even given considerationto.
Jess (24:11):
Yeah, all right, so I'm going to bring us back a little
bit to work the workplace.
Let's see, you know, a lot ofthe DEI initiatives that we hear
of are about workplace.
However, I agree, they can beincorporated into everyday life
and should be and it should bewoven into who you are.
From your perspective, though,going back to our work bestie
(24:32):
environment, I do thinkleadership does play a role in
it.
What are some ways thatleadership can really help with
this?
Delphia Howze (24:41):
I think the big one is model the behavior right.
So it's one thing to walk thewalk and it's another thing to
talk the talk right.
You could have a leader whosays, oh yeah, it's one thing to
walk the walk and it's anotherthing to talk the talk right.
You know, you could have aleader who says, oh yeah, it's
important, yes, now go and do itRight.
Or you can have a leader thatsays it's important, here's the
(25:02):
reasons why and here's how we'lldo it together.
And so I think it's, you know,modeling the behavior of being
engaged in the efforts, versusas being a leader who delegates
it off to others and says OK,well, that's your problem, go
ahead and handle it and manageit.
We've heard all about servantleadership and different types
(25:33):
of leadership In this space.
A leader is someone who isreally in lockstep with everyone
to make sure that they aremodeling the behavior and that
they are comfortable with beingvulnerable in this space because
they're not going to knoweverything right.
Jess (25:46):
Yeah and say walk me through what you mean by the
vulnerability.
Delphia Howze (25:49):
Yeah.
So when I was let's see, when Iwas writing my book, right, I
did interviews with CEOs, lotsof leaders, to understand their
perspective around inclusion andhow it works, and what I heard
was and this is what peoplewould say to me I don't want to
touch it because I don't want tosay the wrong thing, I don't
want people to think that Idon't know what I'm talking
(26:10):
about.
I don't want to be wrong, Idon't want to offend.
It was all of these negativepotential outcomes that caused
them to not engage in it at alland caused them to be
uncomfortable.
So my recommendation, mythought, is that's all about
vulnerability.
We, as leaders, need to bevulnerable to be able to say hey
(26:31):
.
I don't got the answers toeverything.
I don't know the answer.
My career wasn't built uponleading inclusion.
My career was built because,you know, I'm great at numbers
or I'm a scientist or whatever.
The case may be right.
That's why I've grownprofessional.
We don't teach people how to dothat and so once a leader is
(26:52):
nominated, selected, hired orwhat have you for the position,
now they have thisresponsibility of inclusion.
Oh my gosh, it's uncomfortable.
Let me just get back to mynumbers right.
Absolutely so that vulnerabilityallowing people to be
vulnerable in the fact that theydon't have to know everything,
(27:15):
so that they can continue tolearn something Does that make
sense.
Jess (27:21):
If I could reframe a little bit of what you're saying
, it isn't just the leadership'sresponsibility.
They're allowed to not knoweverything and by offering up
the vulnerability, it giveseveryone the equal playing field
to say well, I have some ideas.
Here's some things that I wouldthink about and gives them
comfort level to really step upand talk about those things.
Delphia Howze (27:43):
For sure, for sure.
Jess (27:44):
I applaud that I think that's a really different way of
saying it that I haven't heardbefore.
Yeah, I think that really couldmake or break some
organizations in that way.
Agreed.
Delphia Howze (27:54):
Vulnerability is not a weakness, it's actually a
strength.
Claude (27:57):
No on the contrary.
Jess (27:58):
No, and you kind of hit the nail on the head with so.
Many individuals move up theranks to leadership levels
because of the skills that theybring, which usually are more
but not the human side.
Yeah, are are more the tacticalelements that relate to the job
, not the community element, thepeople person, then the people
management.
So having the vulnerability andwherewithal to say, hey, I'm
(28:22):
not strong in this or I don'tknow this or hey let's lean in
together.
Delphia Howze (28:27):
Absolutely.
Claude (28:29):
At the same time, I feel like and I don't know if it's a
bit controversial what I'mgoing to say it is quite
baffling that we need to haveprograms to teach people to be
inclusive.
We are all human right For me,so that's why it's a bit
controversial, but it's like why.
Delphia Howze (28:47):
Yeah yeah.
I agree with you 100%.
I do keynotes and presentations, and one thing I love to say is
let's go back to ourkindergarten selves, right?
Jess (28:57):
What did we?
Delphia Howze (28:57):
learn in kindergarten.
We learned to be nice Don'tbite.
Talk nicely, please thank you.
All of these things right, youlearn to work it out.
Yeah, and then somewhere alongthe line we lose that and become
these crazy humans that we are.
Jess (29:13):
Yeah, right.
Well, I do think, in certainfields and industries, and some
of which you've been in, be likea lawyer.
I think did you have bankingtoo, or something Banking,
banking at the beginning.
Yeah, I mean.
So you're in a lot of theseindustries where when you're
working through the tiers to getup that ladder, you are pushing
past other people, so thatmentality continues along the
(29:37):
ladder.
So I think I get why you'resaying what you're saying.
I don't agree with these peopleand why they're doing it, but I
kind of understand why.
Because there's still some ofthis mentality of I had to do it
, yeah, I had to push through,and that's what I think we have
to break, because it nevershould have happened to anyone,
that never should have been theway of moving through an
(30:00):
organization or an industry.
Claude (30:01):
Oh yeah.
Oh, I'm not saying that weshould not do the program, it's
just that how did we become this?
Jess (30:06):
No, no, no, you're saying, we don't get how we even got
here.
How did we get here?
Yeah, but I think we just wepushed these people out of the
way to make it a certain group.
Delphia Howze (30:16):
Yeah, it is mind-boggling because it makes
you wonder why can't we just,like I said, get back to our
kindergarten selves?
Right, if we do that, andremember what, you know, our
kindergarten teacher taught us,that's the whole empathy side,
that's that whole inclusion side, right, well, the skills, the
(30:36):
knowledge and ability to do ourjob are going to happen, but
somehow we lose sight of thatother I shouldn't say we many
oftentimes.
Yes, that other I shouldn't saywe many oftentimes that sight
is lost of that, all of thoseother human-centric pieces of
information and intellect thathelp us to build relationships.
Jess (30:56):
Yeah, so you've talked a little bit about your book.
Would you mind telling us moreabout it?
I believe in the book you do gointo some of the roles people
play when it comes to this.
Yes, yes.
Delphia Howze (31:09):
So this book was something that was in the making
in my head for probably sevenyears and finally I sat down and
did it.
So the book is titled Includingyou Leading Inclusion from when
you Are, and it's a book thatfocuses on the mindset that
everyone can be a part ofcreating inclusive environments,
(31:29):
even you, yes, you included.
Right, that's why it's calledIncluding you.
And then the premise of it isthe reality is that every person
has likely experienced someelement of exclusion, right and
throughout our lives, whether itwas back in kindergarten,
whether it's yesterday or whathave you.
Somewhere along the line wefelt that feeling of exclusion
(31:52):
and I can guarantee it probablydid not feel good.
Right, there's a visceralresponse, there's a, you know,
chemistry around how exclusionmakes individuals feel, and the
impact and outcome of that arenot usually positive.
And so, realizing that, let'sthink about that.
Why would we want that in ourworkplaces?
Why would we want exclusion tobe a reality for any person,
(32:15):
from any background in ourworkplaces?
If someone's feeling excluded,they can't do their best work.
They won't do their best work,they're not going to feel the
elements of value, because nowthey're focused on something
else and that is trying to getrid of that exclusionary feeling
.
And so if we take theresponsibility to create, to do
(32:37):
something on our own accord,each and every person that
creates an environment ofinclusion, we would have the
most beautiful, dynamicworkplaces If everyone did
something, one thing every daythat would help another person
to feel included.
How wonderful would that be.
And so my basis of the book isthat it's not difficult to
(32:58):
create inclusive environments,and we should not be waiting for
the HR director, the CEO, theleadership team to create that
culture for us.
We have a personalresponsibility to do it and we
can do it very easily.
Jess (33:12):
Oh, my God, I love that, which that does hit on the
question that I teased up in thevery beginning.
What is that?
One simple thing each personcan do that's really quick and
easy, that they could do to helpin the workplace to be more
inclusive.
Delphia Howze (33:28):
Yeah, that is such a wonderful question, and
so I'm trying to narroweverything down to one.
I think that one thing that wecan do is give each other grace,
right, recognizing that we arehuman and because we are human,
we are imperfect.
Giving others grace andlatitude to be able to get into
(33:49):
the space of inclusion takestime, right.
And so if we give someone thatlatitude and don't just write
them off automatically becauseof our biases, because we feel
uncomfortable, because they mayhave said something that was a
little off right Somewhere alongthe line, let's give them grace
(34:11):
and, through that grace, createunderstanding to their
perspective.
I think that's the biggestthing.
We're so quick to write someoneoff.
Oh, they said X, y, z.
The guy with the hat oh, he hasthat hat.
Nope, can't do that.
Right, but give them grace tobe who they are and to allow
them the space to be able toprovide more information about
(34:35):
their perspectives and how theysee the world.
And once we do that, now wehave the opportunity to bridge
the gap and close the gap alittle bit, because we're not
pointing the finger.
We're actually opening the handfor people to come in and share.
Jess (34:51):
I think that's amazing because that's something
everyone can do right, Justgiving everybody that breath and
ability to be themselves.
To stay back and understand.
Continue to train or retrainyour brain, not to jump to
conclusions or to bias.
Delphia Howze (35:05):
That's it exactly yes.
Claude (35:08):
Which a lot of time we go back.
You know it's very easy to goback to this bias or whatever
when you're stressed at work andeverything.
So it's really stepping backand, like you say at the
beginning, looking into yourself.
Yes, right, that's reallysomething that resonates so much
with me is looking at yourselfso that you understand, so that
(35:31):
you can go towards the others.
Delphia Howze (35:34):
Absolutely, Absolutely.
You know we're not as wonderfuland perfect as we think.
We are right, we all have workto do.
And if we do that first, thenwe can have a better opportunity
to connect with people andappreciate them for who they are
and include.
And if we do that first, thenwe can have a better opportunity
to connect with people andappreciate them for who they are
and include and include.
Jess (35:51):
Delphia, do you have any parting words or anything else
you might want to share with us?
Delphia Howze (35:55):
Well, this has been a phenomenal conversation.
I thank you for having me.
One thing that I just want toI'll leave with is the reality
that if we look at the wordinclusion, the way in which it's
spelled, inclusion begins withI, and it always needs you right
.
Think of the letters that arein there, right, and
(36:22):
opportunities as we go forward,navigating our landscape in the
workplace and outside of theworkplace, building more BFFs.
You know all of those things.
We know in our heart of heartsthat inclusion cannot exist
without the letter I and itcannot exist without you.
Jess (36:40):
I love that, Delphia, this conversation has just been so
moving.
I mean I've gotten chills acouple of times and definitely
some ideas of things that I cando to lean in.
Thank you for sharing yourwisdom, your experiences and for
even just reminding us, I mean,some of these things we do know
, but just having theconversation really helps, so we
(37:00):
so appreciate it.
I think all of us can sit thereand say that that daily
commitment you propose to us isnot a hard thing to do, but it's
something we all should lean inon, and I just feel like, the
more we think about theimportance of the Work Bestie
community, that we all areallies of each other and have
the opportunity to really takethis to the next level.
(37:20):
So with that, I just want tosay thank you for these
actionable insights, and we dowant to make sure, just like you
said all you work besties,inclusion does start with I, but
it incorporates you.
So please be a part of this andreally take that small shift
each day.
Claude (37:36):
Yeah, and thank you so much again for your time and
this positivity.
Where can our listeners connectwith you?
Learn more about your book,about your work.
Delphia Howze (37:46):
How can our listeners connect with you,
learn more about your book,about your work?
Yes, sure, so you can find meon LinkedIn Again.
I think I'm the only DelphiaHowes out there, right, and you
can find me on LinkedIn.
You can also find informationon my website, dhowesolutionscom
, and also on Instagram.
Claude (38:02):
Perfect, and we'll make sure to put the link in our you
know bio and story show notes?
Delphia Howze (38:07):
Yes, and you can find the book on Amazon.
It's including you, leadinginclusion from where you are.
Purchase the book, send me apicture and I'll add you all to
the wall of inclusion.
Anyone to the wall of inclusion?
Those who are willing to takethe journey to be more inclusive
.
Jess (38:23):
Perfect.
I feel like that's a call toattention for us.
Yes, we'll find a way to jointhat.
Claude (38:28):
Work besties, you heard Delphia, it is your turn.
So this week, take oneintentional step towards
inclusion.
Invite someone into aconversation, champion a
co-worker's idea, support themand, of course, as usual,
workers at WorkBesties foodpodcast, tell us about it.
(38:51):
And don't forget to like, rateand subscribe.
Thank you all.
Until next time, bye, bye.
Jess (38:59):
Remember whether you're swapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings or just sending
that perfectly timed meme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
squad.
Claude (39:12):
So keep lifting each other, laughing through the
chaos and, of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Work besties.
Hello, workbesties, have you ever felt like your
workplace is missing somethinglike that true inclusivity, the
belonging and the support thatwe always love to talk about?
Well, today we're talking withsomeone very special who's
changing that.
Delphia Howes is a powerhousein HR and diversity inclusivity,
(00:22):
leading the charge in creatingworkplace dynamics where
everyone can thrive.
She's breaking down thosebiggest mistakes that companies
make and how work besties canreally be allies, which I know
you love chatting about.
And stay tuned to the very,very end, because you will hear
that one simple change that youcan make today, that one simple
(00:43):
change that you can make today.
Claude (00:44):
So if you care about workplace culture and making a
real impact, you don't want tomiss that, so let's dive in Hi.
I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
Jess (01:00):
We are corporate employees by day, entrepreneurs by night
and work besties for life.
Join us as we explore how workbesties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry.
Welcome Hi Delphia.
Delphia Howze (01:14):
We're so excited to have you.
How are you?
I'm so happy to be here.
Jess (01:18):
We thought you could kick it off by telling our work
bestie community a little bitabout yourself, sure?
Delphia Howze (01:24):
So my name is Delphia Howes, and I do believe
that I'm probably the only onewith that name in the world, and
so I'm easy to find, but I aman individual who has been doing
the work of inclusion for morethan 25 years, quite honestly,
and I'm very passionate about it.
I am the owner of DHowSolutions, which is a
consultancy around inclusionstrategy.
(01:45):
I am also the author of a booktitled Including you that was
just released, which focuses onhow we can create more inclusive
environments one by one, andthat everyone has a level of
responsibility to do so.
I'm also an executive for alarge scale national entity that
I have to keep separate, um,but it's but.
(02:09):
So I you know, I've been doingthis work for a long time and I
love it.
Jess (02:12):
Very impressive and very important.
So it sounds like you you'vegot a lot on your plate.
But in the past cause I lookedat your resume you've worked at
a number of different industrieskind of varied too, not all
similar.
So I'm curious from yourperspective, what's been that
defining moment in your career?
Delphia Howze (02:34):
My defining moment in my career.
So, full transparency.
When I was in college, my dreamwas to go and become the top
attorney in the world, right,take the world by storm.
I quickly learned once Ientered law school that that
probably was not a good idea forme.
And the defining moment in mycareer was when I was in banking
(02:58):
.
I was in a position where I wasa bank officer and I had
responsibility for a number oflocations regional banks and I
realized that we were not asprofitable in some areas as
opposed to others.
And I just started to do someassessing in terms of who we
were engaging with, how we wereengaging, who were the managers
(03:20):
that I was hiring, who we werebringing in to lead these
efforts?
Were the managers that I washiring, who we were bringing in
to lead these efforts, andrealized quite quickly that
there was a disconnect in termsof who we hired and how they
were able to connect with thecommunity, to build
relationships and essentiallywhat the challenge was.
We would bring in individualsfrom college backgrounds and
(03:40):
have them in urban settings, whothey weren't familiar with,
interacting with that type ofenvironment, and I said, hey,
wait a minute, we have a problemhere, we're missing opportunity
.
I spoke to our president and heliterally said Delphia, I don't
know what to do with it.
If you can figure it out and ifit's that important to you, do
something about it.
(04:01):
And that's probably the worstthing that anyone could ever say
to me, because I go full speedahead From there.
I started the first diversityprogram.
I focused on affirmative actionprogramming.
I also focused on how are webuilding relationships within
the community and built theirfirst program for that bank, and
that's how I got started intothis work.
It was all about how do wecreate connections.
(04:22):
Ultimately, inclusion.
Back then I wasn't thinkingabout the terminology, but that,
I think, was a defining moment.
Jess (04:28):
That's really impressive because it's to your point.
It wasn't necessarily somethingthat was discussed or talked
about then At the ethos of it.
That is how we all need to bethinking, how you want to
connect to your community andreally kind of develop that, and
I love that you leaned in, youwere like challenge me, I will
take that.
Claude (04:45):
And it's so funny because you say it's the worst
that someone can say to me.
But it's actually it's the bestIf you think about it.
That's the best that someonecould tell you, because then you
were able to implement.
You know, this program.
Delphia Howze (05:00):
Yeah, that's true .
And and it made me feel anelement of trust and support at
the same time, because I, youknow, either he really didn't
care, which is possible or hetrusted in my ability to do
something impactful.
So yeah, it's a double edgedsword, but you know I'll take
the challenge any day.
Jess (05:17):
That's great.
So I kind of think that parlaysperfectly into why we were so
excited to chat about you, whichis to really dig into the
diversity and inclusivity.
What's that biggestmisconception about diversity
and inclusivity that you canthink of?
Delphia Howze (05:33):
that happens in the workplace, I think the
biggest misconception is thatit's all about them, those
people over there.
It's only for someone else otherthan me, whoever I am.
I think that lends to thechallenge that it's all about
others, it's all about a certaindemographic group, it's all
(05:54):
about preferential treatment andillegal discrimination and all
of these things.
I think that that hugemisconception has led us to
where we are today with therevoking of executive orders and
the attack on DEI, and I dobelieve that we as a society
(06:15):
have not defined it well, whichis why that's where we are.
Everyone's coming at it from somany different points of
understanding and if you breakdown diversity, equity,
inclusion, independently, not asan acronym, as words, diversity
is about mixture, right.
Equity is about fairness.
Inclusion is about bringingpeople together and so when you
(06:36):
think about it that way, it'sall about eradicating the
misconception that when yousmush those letters together,
that acronym together, that itmeans others and discrimination
and reverse discrimination andall of these negative things.
So I think that's the biggestmisconception in the workplace
that it doesn't have that I,whoever I am, have a part.
(06:58):
I think that's fair.
Jess (06:58):
One of the misconceptions is that it starts at the
executive level and it's justsupposed to be there.
While I do, misconceptions isthat it starts at the executive
level and it's just supposed tobe there.
While I do believe there's arole for the executives and
we'll get to that in a minutewhat do you think?
Where do you think the mostimpact can occur from a DEI
within a workplace?
Delphia Howze (07:16):
Yeah, I think the greatest impact can occur from
individual perspectives.
So we can put policies, laws,regulations out there all day
long, but if they're not withregard to this work, if they're
not coming from a place ofintimacy, passionate intimacy
around this work, then I thinkwe're missing the boat
(07:40):
perspective of someone leaninginto the opportunity to
understand themselves and tounderstand the topic in the
environment and recognize thatothers right, whoever we
consider as others really arevaluable in any in our
environments, in our world.
Claude (07:58):
And how do you handle the resistance from the
leadership?
Delphia Howze (08:03):
I've handled that in many different situations.
Unfortunately, the biggest waythat I've been able to overcome
that resistance is by making itpersonal.
So when I have an executive orany employee or any individual
who I'm working with who says,no, that's not important, and,
believe me, I've had seniorlevel executives say, delphia, I
(08:24):
don't even know why you're here, this isn't important.
But when you break it down tohelp them to see how it impacts
their world, how they are a partof this, it makes it easy.
I'll give you a perfect example.
I once worked with a senior vicepresident in one of my former
organizations and he was blessedwith two daughters, right, and
(08:44):
both were in college.
They were a year apart, one hadgraduated and the other was
preparing to graduate college.
And he said to me Delphia, mydaughter is not getting hired,
getting positions.
And he suspected it was becauseshe was a young woman and he
worked in a male-dominatedindustry, so he kind of knew the
language that was going around.
(09:04):
Long story short, he said Idon't understand why she's not
getting these opportunities whenshe is very well qualified for
it and should be hired.
And I said, well, let's thinkabout it.
Where is she applying and whois she applying with?
And he broke it and I didn'tsay anything else and he started
looking down the list and saidI see what this, this element of
(09:28):
the concept of the reversediscrimination, is coming from.
He was able to now internalizehow he potentially impacted
other women.
Right, that experience that hehad, because prior to that
(09:50):
conversation he said you knowwhat?
I probably have thwartedopportunities for success for
women because I don't believethat they can be successful in
this dynamic workplace.
Right, that was his mindset.
Not that he was wrong for havingthat, but that's what he
believed he believed work wasdemanding, work was challenging,
that women were going to comein, they were going to raise a
(10:12):
family, they were going to gooff and have babies and they
couldn't commit to the work.
But now he saw from the otherside the impact someone that he
loved, someone that was a partof his world and he saw how that
was negatively impacting them.
Claude (10:26):
I think one of the biggest consumption also is that
people think of DEI that wewould put, for example, let's
say, a woman in a positionbecause we need to have more
women.
She got into that positionbecause she's a woman, not
because of her qualificationwhen it's totally woman, not
(10:46):
because of her qualificationwhen it's totally different.
Right At the end of the day,you're not going to push someone
that has better qualificationfor someone that is lesser
qualified, but you need to doyour quota.
I think that's also a bigmisconception.
Delphia Howze (11:01):
Yes, and it's a challenge because we've gotten
into this mindset where somepeople believe that, as women
minorities, whatever the casemay be, we're getting into the
workforce that it wasn'tmerit-based.
Any employer or recruiter ormanager that's hiring someone
(11:21):
should always be looking for thebest qualified candidate,
always right.
It shouldn't be.
Oh well, we need women, we needa person of color, so let's go
and pick one and pluck one, andunfortunately that has happened.
That's probably happened insome organizations, but the
reality is that's not the way itshould be and it doesn't create
(11:42):
an opportunity for ameritocracy for people to get in
based off of their merit andtheir ability to be successful.
Think about the person who getsinto a position just because,
oh yeah, you're the quota, solet's get in here and put you in
here.
That's not setting anyone upfor success, their ability to be
(12:07):
successful, barring anythingelse.
Jess (12:10):
Right and I think the point of the DEI initiatives
wasn't necessarily to createways to navigate around that.
It was to remind people of likeeverybody has strong
qualifications and you shouldn'tbe creating those biases or
misconceptions ahead of time, toput everybody on the level
playing field and let themshowcase those skills and
(12:31):
qualities.
Delphia Howze (12:32):
to you Absolutely .
It's all about opening thedoors right.
Unfortunately, throughout ourhistory, the doors were closed
to certain groups and certainindividuals.
And those individuals some ofthem had the qualifications that
would meet, but they couldn'teven get their toe, couldn't
even get a toenail in the doorright.
So it was all about opening thedoor so that we can really see
(12:55):
a full landscape of viablecandidates from all groups.
Jess (13:11):
Missed that opportunity and somehow we got waylaid in
what our intention was aroundDEI, which I think is part of
the challenge as to why we're soalong that Delphia.
I do think there are someinstances where it's not
intentional.
Let's say that organizations orindividuals are purposely doing
this, but it is a lot of timesbeing overlooked and not
addressed.
So are there certain workplacecultures or elements that you've
(13:31):
consistently seen that areunintentional ways that the DEI
initiatives are being excluded?
Delphia Howze (13:38):
Yeah, that they're being excluded.
When you think about DEI and itbeing excluded away from
opportunities for successtowards the organizational
mission.
I do believe that whenindividuals, whether it's
leadership or employees, or theorganizational culture as a
whole, does not have an elementor a foundation rooted on the
(14:04):
why, why are they doing this?
What's the reason?
Why are they focusing onelements of diversity, equity,
inclusion, belonging, why isthat even necessary?
If they can't answer thatquestion, that's where the
exclusion and themisunderstandings come forward.
Because if you're doing it justto check the box or just to you
(14:25):
know, one up your competitor orjust to you know, for whatever
reason, then and you're notanswering an absolute why,
that's where the challenge comesin and I will say if you're
doing a DEI initiative, it'snever going to be successful.
If you have DEI programming, ifyou have, you know, things that
(14:45):
are set aside from theorganizational structure, that's
where you're missingopportunity.
It should be an everyday, woven, fluid opportunity to create a
foundation and a sustainableenvironment that's rooted in
valuing employees, your people,and creating an environment of
inclusion and, ultimately,success.
Jess (15:07):
Right.
Claude (15:08):
So not creating some of that separation but the
interwoven element, AbsolutelyBecause then when you put it
just a program on its side, thenit doesn't make it authentic,
right?
Yes, yes.
Jess (15:20):
As you know, our whole ethos of this podcast is about
work besties.
As you know, our whole ethos ofthis podcast is about work
besties and we're big proponentsof supporting each other not
just your own individual workbesties, but the whole work
bestie community out there.
So how can this strong workbestie community that we've
created, how can they contributeto this cause and help with?
Delphia Howze (15:40):
the DEI.
Yes, I love that question.
I think the big thing issupporting one another, right?
This isn't easy, right, becauseit deals with emotion, it deals
with baggage that people have,it deals with elements of
discomfort and evenmisunderstanding, and then you
have to add in all of thesocietal rhetoric that goes
along with it.
So I think the big thing is inthe bestie community is really,
(16:03):
I actually have to.
I think the first thing isreally shining the flashlight on
yourself, right, understandingyour very own perspective and
comfort level with this topic,right?
Many of us grow up in areas thatinsulate us, right?
We grow up in a family withpeople who look like us.
(16:24):
We live in communities withpeople who look and think like
us.
We learn from that community incertain ways, and so there's
all these little bubbles ofdifferent types, and I'm not
talking just about race orgender, I'm talking about just
different points of diversity ofthought and things of that
nature.
Once we take time to understandour perspectives, understand our
biases that we have, because weall have them get comfortable
(16:47):
with those biases and understandhow we can mitigate them
effectively, right, I thinkthat's step number one.
You have to do that internalreflection first.
Step number two is then takingtime to pull in your bestie,
your work bestie, and say, hey,I see you right, and realize
that it's impossible to see theworld completely without the
(17:11):
perspectives of others.
It's just impossible.
So, allowing that time forinternal reflection and then the
opportunity to pull in otherswith regard to seeing them
completely, for all the thingsthat you thought you knew and
all the things you do not know.
Claude (17:29):
Yeah, I love this and I have an example actually for
myself where, about pullingsomeone right, we a friend of
mine we have something in commonand like, for example, it was
our children and this is some.
It's an individual that we'rein different work of life,
different you know paths, and Iwould have never been friend
(17:51):
with her and because we had thissomething in common, we became
friends and we really becamevery much friends.
It would have been if we hadthat bias.
And because we are not comingfrom the same you know culture,
the same, whatever social, Iknow that without this friend my
life would have been muchemptier.
(18:12):
So I love to have this, youknow, pulling people that are
different from us.
And again, it doesn't.
It's not about race, aboutgender, about social economy.
If you don't extend yourself topeople, you might miss a lot
and something in your life thatis going to be enriched.
Delphia Howze (18:32):
So, very true, I agree with you 100%.
That's a path that is not easyto do, right, because sometimes
we just want people to be likeus.
Right?
We all like ourselves right, wethink we're great and wonderful
, right, everybody else needs toget their stuff together, right
, we're good, but the reality,reality.
I love what you said, I agreewith your perspective and we
(18:53):
just need to be able to pullpeople in and and um be able to
see the world from differentperspectives in order to fully
understand the world right.
Jess (19:03):
We learn from each other.
We're patchwork.
For a reason we should not beexact replicas of each other.
Claude (19:09):
No, that was it's boring .
Delphia Howze (19:10):
Yes, it would be boring, it would be really
boring, it would be so boring.
Claude (19:14):
Like we always laugh right, like we are the yin and
the yang.
It is so true, we are sodifferent, but we have this
friendship in common and ourdifference what makes it
exciting.
Jess (19:27):
Yeah, we challenge each other every single day.
I love it, whether we want toor what makes it exciting.
Delphia Howze (19:31):
yeah, absolutely yeah, we challenge each other
every single day.
Jess (19:34):
Yeah, it's the same in a marriage right, yeah, oh yeah.
Delphia Howze (19:36):
We we marry, you know, people who we love, and
some will say our best friendsand and all of that.
That's true, they bring adifferent perspective right,
drive you crazy sometimes, yes,but love them dearly because
they, you know, my husband helps.
He is the total opposite of me.
If we do any personalityassessments, we're always, like
(19:58):
you know, the polar opposites.
Polar opposites, right, and.
But I love it because we, we,we ground each other.
Yeah, you know, we bring intolight what the others cannot see
, yeah, what the other can't see.
And it can be frustrating andmaddening sometimes, but it's
definitely valuable when you getover that frustration.
Jess (20:17):
You bring up some really good points too, that you want
to surround yourself withdifferent perspectives and
personalities and ways of being,and you'll get to a point at
some point where you do havethat trust so you don't have to
worry about it.
But you still want to push theboundaries and be okay with
people you don't trust yet, justbecause it's good to have a
(20:38):
remembrance that there's so manydifferent people out there and
that you could lean in and windup becoming close to these
people.
Claude (20:44):
Exactly.
And then sometimes, if you'renot, you don't have this thing
where you have.
It's okay also.
At least you reach out, you canstill help.
You don't become besties orwhatever, but at least you bring
your hand.
Delphia Howze (21:00):
Yes yes, yes, and you don't allow your biases to
impede that opportunity, right.
You know, biases are a part ofus for a reason, right.
They're designed to keep ussafe to, you know, steer are are
a part of us for a reason,right.
They're designed to keep ussafe to, uh, you know, steer us
away from those things thatmight cause us discomfort or
harm or what have you.
And if we encounter someone whovisually represents something
(21:21):
that's not comfortable for us,that we don't understand, that
we may not like or what have you, our natural tendency is to
kind of pull away from that.
I say, lean into it, right?
I've been doing this work formore than 25 years and I still,
very recently even, hadsituations where I saw someone
and I'm like I should stay awayfrom that and, for whatever
(21:42):
reason, we ended up talking justbecause I run my mouth so much.
But we ended up talking and Ilearned so much from this
individual.
I'm thinking about a gentlemanwho had a hat on that was very
offensive to me and we were at ahotel, in the lobby bar, and I
saw him like oh my gosh, I can'tsit next to him, but it was the
(22:06):
only seat, so I sat there andjust through us ordering, we
started talking and then as wetalked, that trust built a
little bit and I was able to askhim about his hat and I said
help me to understand what itmeans.
It was pretty graphic, so Iwon't even say what it was.
I'm curious, and why would youhave that on your head?
(22:26):
And he explained it to me andfrom what he shared it made
perfect sense.
But because it wasn't a part ofmy experience and it gave me
discomfort, I was ready to writehim off and I'm so glad that I
didn't, because we had afantastic conversation it's
again this inclusion right.
Jess (22:44):
It goes back to inclusion absolutely interesting and I'm
like really curious to know whatwas on the hat to tell us off
the pod.
Claude (22:52):
And I think also it takes a strong person to still
go behind the bias and open upand trying to understand the
other side.
It's not that easy?
Jess (23:05):
Not at all.
In fairness, I don't know ifit's not that it's not that easy
.
It's just that our brains arewater to do the easiest thing,
which is shut down and becomecomfort like stay in your little
bubble yeah, so I think it'slike you brought it up in one of
your very first answers it'sthe recognition.
Once you recognize, then itcontinue to challenge yourself
because, I agree, there's somany times, adelphia, that I
(23:28):
randomly will talk to peoplethat I had no real intention of
having a connection with and youwind up having these really
heartwarming conversations andit's just because you took I
took the chance.
I could have been rude, I couldhave just walked right by, but
you took a chance yeah,absolutely, absolutely, and I
love what you said.
Delphia Howze (23:45):
The brain, our brains, are so darn lazy, right,
right, they, they do.
You know, we take those mentalassociations, the path of least
resistance.
Right, that's what, that's whatit does.
And if we don't check ourselvesto go be to step outside of
that, we miss thoseopportunities.
We're, like you said, building,meeting great people, you know,
building good relationshipswith others that we would have
(24:07):
never even given considerationto.
Jess (24:11):
Yeah, all right, so I'm going to bring us back a little
bit to work the workplace.
Let's see, you know, a lot ofthe DEI initiatives that we hear
of are about workplace.
However, I agree, they can beincorporated into everyday life
and should be and it should bewoven into who you are.
From your perspective, though,going back to our work bestie
(24:32):
environment, I do thinkleadership does play a role in
it.
What are some ways thatleadership can really help with
this?
Delphia Howze (24:41):
I think the big one is model the behavior right.
So it's one thing to walk thewalk and it's another thing to
talk the talk right.
You could have a leader whosays, oh yeah, it's one thing to
walk the walk and it's anotherthing to talk the talk right.
You know, you could have aleader who says, oh yeah, it's
important, yes, now go and do itRight.
Or you can have a leader thatsays it's important, here's the
(25:02):
reasons why and here's how we'lldo it together.
And so I think it's, you know,modeling the behavior of being
engaged in the efforts, versusas being a leader who delegates
it off to others and says OK,well, that's your problem, go
ahead and handle it and manageit.
We've heard all about servantleadership and different types
(25:33):
of leadership In this space.
A leader is someone who isreally in lockstep with everyone
to make sure that they aremodeling the behavior and that
they are comfortable with beingvulnerable in this space because
they're not going to knoweverything right.
Jess (25:46):
Yeah and say walk me through what you mean by the
vulnerability.
Delphia Howze (25:49):
Yeah.
So when I was let's see, when Iwas writing my book, right, I
did interviews with CEOs, lotsof leaders, to understand their
perspective around inclusion andhow it works, and what I heard
was and this is what peoplewould say to me I don't want to
touch it because I don't want tosay the wrong thing, I don't
want people to think that Idon't know what I'm talking
(26:10):
about.
I don't want to be wrong, Idon't want to offend.
It was all of these negativepotential outcomes that caused
them to not engage in it at alland caused them to be
uncomfortable.
So my recommendation, mythought, is that's all about
vulnerability.
We, as leaders, need to bevulnerable to be able to say hey
(26:31):
.
I don't got the answers toeverything.
I don't know the answer.
My career wasn't built uponleading inclusion.
My career was built because,you know, I'm great at numbers
or I'm a scientist or whatever.
The case may be right.
That's why I've grownprofessional.
We don't teach people how to dothat and so once a leader is
(26:52):
nominated, selected, hired orwhat have you for the position,
now they have thisresponsibility of inclusion.
Oh my gosh, it's uncomfortable.
Let me just get back to mynumbers right.
Absolutely so that vulnerabilityallowing people to be
vulnerable in the fact that theydon't have to know everything,
(27:15):
so that they can continue tolearn something Does that make
sense.
Jess (27:21):
If I could reframe a little bit of what you're saying
, it isn't just the leadership'sresponsibility.
They're allowed to not knoweverything and by offering up
the vulnerability, it giveseveryone the equal playing field
to say well, I have some ideas.
Here's some things that I wouldthink about and gives them
comfort level to really step upand talk about those things.
Delphia Howze (27:43):
For sure, for sure.
Jess (27:44):
I applaud that I think that's a really different way of
saying it that I haven't heardbefore.
Yeah, I think that really couldmake or break some
organizations in that way.
Agreed.
Delphia Howze (27:54):
Vulnerability is not a weakness, it's actually a
strength.
Claude (27:57):
No on the contrary.
Jess (27:58):
No, and you kind of hit the nail on the head with so.
Many individuals move up theranks to leadership levels
because of the skills that theybring, which usually are more
but not the human side.
Yeah, are are more the tacticalelements that relate to the job
, not the community element, thepeople person, then the people
management.
So having the vulnerability andwherewithal to say, hey, I'm
(28:22):
not strong in this or I don'tknow this or hey let's lean in
together.
Delphia Howze (28:27):
Absolutely.
Claude (28:29):
At the same time, I feel like and I don't know if it's a
bit controversial what I'mgoing to say it is quite
baffling that we need to haveprograms to teach people to be
inclusive.
We are all human right For me,so that's why it's a bit
controversial, but it's like why.
Delphia Howze (28:47):
Yeah yeah.
I agree with you 100%.
I do keynotes and presentations, and one thing I love to say is
let's go back to ourkindergarten selves, right?
Jess (28:57):
What did we?
Delphia Howze (28:57):
learn in kindergarten.
We learned to be nice Don'tbite.
Talk nicely, please thank you.
All of these things right, youlearn to work it out.
Yeah, and then somewhere alongthe line we lose that and become
these crazy humans that we are.
Jess (29:13):
Yeah, right.
Well, I do think, in certainfields and industries, and some
of which you've been in, be likea lawyer.
I think did you have bankingtoo, or something Banking,
banking at the beginning.
Yeah, I mean.
So you're in a lot of theseindustries where when you're
working through the tiers to getup that ladder, you are pushing
past other people, so thatmentality continues along the
(29:37):
ladder.
So I think I get why you'resaying what you're saying.
I don't agree with these peopleand why they're doing it, but I
kind of understand why.
Because there's still some ofthis mentality of I had to do it
, yeah, I had to push through,and that's what I think we have
to break, because it nevershould have happened to anyone,
that never should have been theway of moving through an
(30:00):
organization or an industry.
Claude (30:01):
Oh yeah.
Oh, I'm not saying that weshould not do the program, it's
just that how did we become this?
Jess (30:06):
No, no, no, you're saying, we don't get how we even got
here.
How did we get here?
Yeah, but I think we just wepushed these people out of the
way to make it a certain group.
Delphia Howze (30:16):
Yeah, it is mind-boggling because it makes
you wonder why can't we just,like I said, get back to our
kindergarten selves?
Right, if we do that, andremember what, you know, our
kindergarten teacher taught us,that's the whole empathy side,
that's that whole inclusion side, right, well, the skills, the
(30:36):
knowledge and ability to do ourjob are going to happen, but
somehow we lose sight of thatother I shouldn't say we many
oftentimes.
Yes, that other I shouldn't saywe many oftentimes that sight
is lost of that, all of thoseother human-centric pieces of
information and intellect thathelp us to build relationships.
Jess (30:56):
Yeah, so you've talked a little bit about your book.
Would you mind telling us moreabout it?
I believe in the book you do gointo some of the roles people
play when it comes to this.
Yes, yes.
Delphia Howze (31:09):
So this book was something that was in the making
in my head for probably sevenyears and finally I sat down and
did it.
So the book is titled Includingyou Leading Inclusion from when
you Are, and it's a book thatfocuses on the mindset that
everyone can be a part ofcreating inclusive environments,
(31:29):
even you, yes, you included.
Right, that's why it's calledIncluding you.
And then the premise of it isthe reality is that every person
has likely experienced someelement of exclusion, right and
throughout our lives, whether itwas back in kindergarten,
whether it's yesterday or whathave you.
Somewhere along the line wefelt that feeling of exclusion
(31:52):
and I can guarantee it probablydid not feel good.
Right, there's a visceralresponse, there's a, you know,
chemistry around how exclusionmakes individuals feel, and the
impact and outcome of that arenot usually positive.
And so, realizing that, let'sthink about that.
Why would we want that in ourworkplaces?
Why would we want exclusion tobe a reality for any person,
(32:15):
from any background in ourworkplaces?
If someone's feeling excluded,they can't do their best work.
They won't do their best work,they're not going to feel the
elements of value, because nowthey're focused on something
else and that is trying to getrid of that exclusionary feeling
.
And so if we take theresponsibility to create, to do
(32:37):
something on our own accord,each and every person that
creates an environment ofinclusion, we would have the
most beautiful, dynamicworkplaces If everyone did
something, one thing every daythat would help another person
to feel included.
How wonderful would that be.
And so my basis of the book isthat it's not difficult to
(32:58):
create inclusive environments,and we should not be waiting for
the HR director, the CEO, theleadership team to create that
culture for us.
We have a personalresponsibility to do it and we
can do it very easily.
Jess (33:12):
Oh, my God, I love that, which that does hit on the
question that I teased up in thevery beginning.
What is that?
One simple thing each personcan do that's really quick and
easy, that they could do to helpin the workplace to be more
inclusive.
Delphia Howze (33:28):
Yeah, that is such a wonderful question, and
so I'm trying to narroweverything down to one.
I think that one thing that wecan do is give each other grace,
right, recognizing that we arehuman and because we are human,
we are imperfect.
Giving others grace andlatitude to be able to get into
(33:49):
the space of inclusion takestime, right.
And so if we give someone thatlatitude and don't just write
them off automatically becauseof our biases, because we feel
uncomfortable, because they mayhave said something that was a
little off right Somewhere alongthe line, let's give them grace
(34:11):
and, through that grace, createunderstanding to their
perspective.
I think that's the biggestthing.
We're so quick to write someoneoff.
Oh, they said X, y, z.
The guy with the hat oh, he hasthat hat.
Nope, can't do that.
Right, but give them grace tobe who they are and to allow
them the space to be able toprovide more information about
(34:35):
their perspectives and how theysee the world.
And once we do that, now wehave the opportunity to bridge
the gap and close the gap alittle bit, because we're not
pointing the finger.
We're actually opening the handfor people to come in and share.
Jess (34:51):
I think that's amazing because that's something
everyone can do right, Justgiving everybody that breath and
ability to be themselves.
To stay back and understand.
Continue to train or retrainyour brain, not to jump to
conclusions or to bias.
Delphia Howze (35:05):
That's it exactly yes.
Claude (35:08):
Which a lot of time we go back.
You know it's very easy to goback to this bias or whatever
when you're stressed at work andeverything.
So it's really stepping backand, like you say at the
beginning, looking into yourself.
Yes, right, that's reallysomething that resonates so much
with me is looking at yourselfso that you understand, so that
(35:31):
you can go towards the others.
Delphia Howze (35:34):
Absolutely, Absolutely.
You know we're not as wonderfuland perfect as we think.
We are right, we all have workto do.
And if we do that first, thenwe can have a better opportunity
to connect with people andappreciate them for who they are
and include.
And if we do that first, thenwe can have a better opportunity
to connect with people andappreciate them for who they are
and include and include.
Jess (35:51):
Delphia, do you have any parting words or anything else
you might want to share with us?
Delphia Howze (35:55):
Well, this has been a phenomenal conversation.
I thank you for having me.
One thing that I just want toI'll leave with is the reality
that if we look at the wordinclusion, the way in which it's
spelled, inclusion begins withI, and it always needs you right
.
Think of the letters that arein there, right, and
(36:22):
opportunities as we go forward,navigating our landscape in the
workplace and outside of theworkplace, building more BFFs.
You know all of those things.
We know in our heart of heartsthat inclusion cannot exist
without the letter I and itcannot exist without you.
Jess (36:40):
I love that, Delphia, this conversation has just been so
moving.
I mean I've gotten chills acouple of times and definitely
some ideas of things that I cando to lean in.
Thank you for sharing yourwisdom, your experiences and for
even just reminding us, I mean,some of these things we do know
, but just having theconversation really helps, so we
(37:00):
so appreciate it.
I think all of us can sit thereand say that that daily
commitment you propose to us isnot a hard thing to do, but it's
something we all should lean inon, and I just feel like, the
more we think about theimportance of the Work Bestie
community, that we all areallies of each other and have
the opportunity to really takethis to the next level.
(37:20):
So with that, I just want tosay thank you for these
actionable insights, and we dowant to make sure, just like you
said all you work besties,inclusion does start with I, but
it incorporates you.
So please be a part of this andreally take that small shift
each day.
Claude (37:36):
Yeah, and thank you so much again for your time and
this positivity.
Where can our listeners connectwith you?
Learn more about your book,about your work.
Delphia Howze (37:46):
How can our listeners connect with you,
learn more about your book,about your work?
Yes, sure, so you can find meon LinkedIn Again.
I think I'm the only DelphiaHowes out there, right, and you
can find me on LinkedIn.
You can also find informationon my website, dhowesolutionscom
, and also on Instagram.
Claude (38:02):
Perfect, and we'll make sure to put the link in our you
know bio and story show notes?
Delphia Howze (38:07):
Yes, and you can find the book on Amazon.
It's including you, leadinginclusion from where you are.
Purchase the book, send me apicture and I'll add you all to
the wall of inclusion.
Anyone to the wall of inclusion?
Those who are willing to takethe journey to be more inclusive
.
Jess (38:23):
Perfect.
I feel like that's a call toattention for us.
Yes, we'll find a way to jointhat.
Claude (38:28):
Work besties, you heard Delphia, it is your turn.
So this week, take oneintentional step towards
inclusion.
Invite someone into aconversation, champion a
co-worker's idea, support themand, of course, as usual,
workers at WorkBesties foodpodcast, tell us about it.
(38:51):
And don't forget to like, rateand subscribe.
Thank you all.
Until next time, bye, bye.
Jess (38:59):
Remember whether you're swapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings or just sending
that perfectly timed meme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
squad.
Claude (39:12):
So keep lifting each other, laughing through the
chaos and, of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Work besties.
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