December 8, 2025 • 33 mins
Your Phone Is Not Your Work Bestie: How to Set Screen Boundaries Without Burning Down Your Career
What if the very thing you use to “stay connected” is actually the reason you feel scattered, exhausted, and weirdly lonely?
In this episode, we’re joined by strategist, speaker, and community builder Kelsey Green to talk about digital overload, screen boundaries, and how to reclaim your brain without torpedoing your job, your business, or your creative work.
Kelsey shares how she went from high-intensity roles and constant burnout to experimenting with digital minimalism, 7 p.m.–7 a.m. screen-free blocks, and 24-hour “phone fasts.” We talk about why our attention feels so fractured, how phones are quietly reshaping our relationships, and why real connection still lives in conversations, community, and being fully present with the people right in front of us.
In this episode, we cover:
- Why “always on” culture is wrecking our focus (and what dopamine has to do with it)
- Simple screen boundaries that actually work in real life (even if your job is online)
- How phones feed the loneliness epidemic—and how to start building your circle offline
- The power of sitting with discomfort instead of numbing out with another scroll
To learn more about Kelsey or join one of her communities, visit www.kelseylgreen.com.
If this episode made you rethink how you connect, send it to your work bestie and talk about it… face to face. 💎
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Please rate, comment and provide suggestions for upcoming episodes
Work Besties! Theme Song Written by Ralph Lentini @therallyband
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jess K (00:00):
What if the thing keeping you from real connection
is the way you're trying tostay connected?
Because being always on doesn'tmean we are truly connected.
Today's guest, Kelsey Green,strategist, speaker, and
community builder, helps peoplereclaim focus and creativity
through digital minimalism.
Claude F (00:19):
She's the creator of Summit in Six and how to build
your circle.
Jess K (00:24):
Together, we're exploring how to reconnect to
real life without disconnectingfrom the world.
Hi, I'm Claude.
And I'm Jess.
Claude F (00:32):
We are corporate employees by day, entrepreneurs
by night, and work besties forlife.
Jess K (00:38):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other
up, laugh through the chaos,and thrive together in every
industry.
Work besties! Welcome, Kensty.
Kelsey L Green (00:51):
I'm so excited to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Jess K (00:54):
Awesome.
We know you've spent a lot oftime entangling people from
digital overload.
Let's start with you helping usunderstand what got you into
this journey.
Kelsey L Green (01:05):
Absolutely.
It followed a path, I think,that's similar to many of us
here, right?
Where I was working inhigh-intensity roles, a hip
burnout, right?
And I had sort of lost touchwith what it meant to have any
boundaries in my life in lots ofways, but certainly digital
boundaries, right?
(01:25):
So I was doing the constantscrolling because, of course, if
you have to create content, ifyou are responding to clients,
if you're building a business,it's very tempting.
And sometimes you think youneed to be on all the time.
So I was responding to texts atall hours of the day and night.
I had all the notifications,bing, bing, bing, all the sounds
(01:46):
on my phone, and do themulti-screen thing, like
watching a Netflix show,answering emails, you know, all
of that.
And when I hit a rock bottom inmultiple kinds of ways, that
was one of the things I startedto examine was is this
contributing to my unhappiness,to my inability to focus, and to
(02:10):
my general feeling ofdisconnection from other people.
Claude F (02:14):
When you say when you, you know, you hit rock bottom,
what was when did you find outthat it was not it was time to
step up?
Kelsey L Green (02:24):
That's a great question.
There's been this new diagnosisthat many of my friends have
received, and I'm notquestioning this diagnosis at
all, but that is adult womenbeing diagnosed with ADHD.
Right.
And I thought I had this too.
I'm a pretty hyper person andrun on a fast clock, I've been
told.
(02:44):
And so I was certain I had thistoo, because I just couldn't
produce the work.
And granted, I was in a fieldthat is notorious for burnout,
the nonprofit sector, right?
But even my own personal work,I had in my master's, I had
written a dissertationpost-human geographies, looking
(03:04):
at the relationships betweenhumans and non-humans from a
vulnerability lens.
And that was very, very hard,but I was able to do it, right?
That was 10 years ago, 10 plusyears ago, you know?
And now I'm having a problemputting a one pager together for
a client.
Like, what is happening?
Right?
I don't know.
Have you have you experienced Iknow you talk to lots of women?
Claude F (03:26):
No, definitely, because now with all the
scrolling, right?
It's like every 10 seconds,it's instant.
So you're like, okay, I I seemyself even watching Netflix
when the scene drags a littlebit.
I'm like, okay, let's go, youknow, and it's 30.
Kelsey L Green (03:44):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Right.
And I'm sure this isn't news toyou, but there's a lot of
research coming out.
There's a lot of data that shownow we are essentially mining
for this dopamine when we dothat, right?
And it does physically changeour brains, and it makes it more
(04:06):
difficult for us actually tosit and focus, right?
Our attention is morefractured, we're used to those
quick dopamine hits over andover again.
And it is it is reallychanging, changing the way that
we are able to be present and tofocus.
Claude F (04:22):
So, how do you actually stop this?
Because you're talking aboutdigital minimalism.
So, how do you go to this?
And do you even see adifference?
Kelsey L Green (04:35):
Oh, I love that question, Claude.
Thanks.
Yes, the answer is absolutelyyes.
So, I'll talk about some of thethings that I did and am doing
currently, and in the way thatit's impacted my life in a
positive way.
So, the first thing is I tookall sound notifications and any
(04:57):
flashing notifications off myphone.
So, I, with the exception of mymom, um, she was just
experiencing some health issues.
So, she's a call-through break,you know, breakthrough caller
person.
But with with um everyone else,including clients, I have
notifications off.
So that means that I don't havecalls coming through to my
(05:18):
phone or texts.
And I try to block the timethat I'm going to be answering
texts, answering calls, and haha, you know, on Instagram,
right?
Um, I also use lots of otherapps.
So I'm not a Luddite.
That's someone that doesn'twant to use technology at all.
Like I love technology.
There's so many cool things.
(05:39):
I don't think we can uh denythe benefits that technology has
had on our lives.
So I have a whip strap, whichis like a fitness tracker, just
doesn't have a screen on it.
I use the app on my phone.
I have, you know, I have lotsof cool apps that I use.
It's just that I try to blockthe time that I'm using the
apps.
Does that always work?
(06:00):
No.
Because something we'll talkabout maybe in a minute is that
it does take quite a lot ofintention.
The other things that I do, Iam working very hard on setting
a 7 p.m.
to 7 a.m.
uh no screen block.
And that is where 7 p.m.
(06:22):
hits.
I go to bed early, so I willsay that.
If you go to bed at 12, 7, 7,it's probably gonna be that's a
long stretch, right?
But I go to bed around 8 to8:30.
So at 7 p.m., all screens off.
So phones put away on do notdisturb mode again with a call
through for my mom and stepdad.
Absolutely never ever scrollingin bed.
(06:42):
That's like the worst.
I think we know that, right?
So screens off and Netflix,whatever, all that's off.
Then I will say that I get uparound five and sometimes I want
to write in the morning.
So if I want to do a deepproject, if I want to write, you
know, if I want to do somethinghard, like in the back end of,
you know, Kajabi or something,that's a fine time.
(07:03):
I can get on my computer and dothat, but it's absolutely not a
time to be on Instagram, to beblooping around, you know, just
kind of scrolling.
Yeah, on the desktop, you canstill obviously be on Instagram,
right?
And then I turn the phone backon at seven.
Claude F (07:18):
So I was going to ask, because for example, Kindle, is
that considered a book or is itconsidered a screen?
Kelsey L Green (07:26):
For me personally, I consider that a
screen.
And I one of my goals is tonever own a Kindle.
And I I feel like I see thatI'm a backpacker and a traveler,
and I see people with Kindles,and sometimes I'm quite jealous.
Like, that looks so light, andyou have what, 900 books on
there?
I don't know.
Yeah.
It's an amazing tool for mepersonally.
(07:46):
I just I I love books, I lovephysical books, so I won't plan
to use one.
That could change, you know,maybe, but um, I heard that
Kindle is also different foryour eyes than the blue light
from screens.
Jess K (07:59):
So, Kelsey, knowing that a lot of our listeners are
either personal creators or inin a corporate environment, so
they do use both of the digitalelement for personal and for
professional.
Ultimately, our work isdigital, like we can't avoid it.
So, how do we set thoseboundaries without that checking
out completely?
Kelsey L Green (08:20):
I'll just note, just to echo your point, we're
meeting on this very coolplatform, digital platform,
obviously.
Yeah, and I'm delighted to behere and be connecting like
this.
And there's so many greatthings, the digital space.
So I just want to be clearabout that again.
But the issue is if you have acorporate job, high power job,
(08:40):
if you're on call, if you're adoctor, there's there might be
situations where right now youcan't set as strong of digital
boundaries as you might want to.
You know, I totally understandthat.
The issue is that for most ofus, we absolutely could be
setting better boundaries, butwe use our businesses to justify
completely out of controldigital use, right?
(09:03):
And uh, this is this littlepersonal aside.
This started to really, reallycome to the forefront.
I was in a relationship sort oflong distance, and um, we both
had businesses, but he was justnot able to stay off of his
phone during our very limitedtime together and notifications
going off all the time, socialmedia notifications.
(09:24):
And it got to the point whereI'm like, I have a business too,
I actually have clients aswell.
But if you have set yourself upto be constantly always
available, that's a trap that'sgonna be pretty tough to unwind
from and get out of, right?
And it became a real issue.
And I think that was when I wasjust emerging to understand
(09:46):
that this was a value.
Like this is becoming a corevalue in my life where I am
fully prioritizing in-personrelationships, space for my
mental health, my brain to havea break from screens and really
wanting to build community offof screens as well as on, right?
I don't, but I don't have anyproblem connecting people
(10:06):
online.
That's you know, that's likethere's so many cool spaces for
us to do that, like where wemet.
But the issue is that the moretime that you spend in those
spaces, the less time you'regonna have for your own brain to
come up with really cool ideas,to just have some breaks, to
breathe, to process stuff,right?
(10:27):
And the less time you have tokeep going or keep these
in-person relationships goingand nurture the actual physical
people in your life.
Jess K (10:37):
So I guess the way you'd state it is it's not don't do
it, it's more figure out thatbalance for yourself to still be
able to be both efficient inyour job, but also building
relationships.
Kelsey L Green (10:49):
That's a great way to say it.
And to be honest, one of thethings that I found was, and
you've perhaps heard thisresearch too, the more focused
time you have and the less time,often the more productive you
are.
So one of the very easy tricksis to literally put your phone
out of sight.
There's a study, I think I'vegot it right here, called the
(11:11):
Brain Drain that shows that whenyour phone is in sight of you,
even if it's face down, yourattention is just more
fractured.
So that means that we'reliterally just a bit dumber when
our phones are around.
And so you can imagine that ifyou're also having an in-person
relationship uh conversation andyour phone's sitting there, or
if there are phones sittingthere, you're just not able to
(11:33):
pay as much attention and you'rejust less present.
So, to your point, yes, youknow, I think that setting up
these boundaries is going tohelp with productivity, with
focus, and with feeling like,you know, we all say we we don't
have enough time, there's solittle time and we're all
strapped for time.
(11:54):
I will say when you start tospend more time off of your
screens, you're like, wow, I do.
I got a lot more time.
Claude F (12:02):
So, did you see a difference for you about being
able to focus more from what youhad said earlier?
Kelsey L Green (12:10):
Absolutely.
Yeah, and especially with someof those deeper projects.
I call it deep work.
There's a book by Cal Newport,one of the main thinkers that I
follow.
So he wrote this book, DigitalMinimalism, and he also wrote
Deep Work.
And that is basically all aboutthat.
When you start to, I will say,it it is hard, right?
(12:31):
Especially at first.
Jess K (12:33):
Yeah, yeah.
My next question was gonna belike, How did you start?
And what are tips for people tostart?
Claude F (12:38):
Because that I it's like being, you know, like we
became drug addict on our phone,about our phone.
Kelsey L Green (12:45):
Yeah, I use the addiction metaphor quite a bit.
It can feel a little intense tosome people, but it is that
same that same compulsion.
And I I mentioned earlier I runthese 24-hour screen-free
challenges.
And if you're not sure ifyou're addicted to your screens,
try to go 24 hours or even likesix for a lot of people and see
(13:06):
what happens, right?
And then you you will know howintegral screens are to your
life and how often you are justseeking something to fill that
space.
We're so unaccustomed to beingbored anymore.
And I don't know how old youtwo are, but I recall living
just fine before cell phones anduh yes, yeah, yeah.
Claude F (13:30):
You know, it was you had more connection with people,
you could do like I feel bad,even for the kids nowadays,
where everything is beingrecorded, like we all did stupid
things being young, but justour little circle knew about it,
right?
Or it was an ear say, but nownow it is you can't escape.
Kelsey L Green (13:52):
Yeah, so I feel the same.
I I read a book called TheAnxious Generation, and I get a
lot of questions from parentsabout what to do about the kids.
And I'm not a parent myself, soI'm like, Yeah, I don't know.
I'm just trying to help adultsover here.
We got it pretty bad.
The anxious generation talksabout what's happening with the
youth, and so if you're aparent, this is a critical
reading for anyone that has ayoung person.
Jess K (14:14):
And yeah, I've read it and we I talk about it a lot
with my friends that have kidsthe same age as my daughter.
It's very eye-opening becauseit's impacting us in a very
different way than it's evenimpacting them because to them
to them, they don't know anydifferent.
This is not something that likeyou have a comparison to, and
it's it's causing a lot morethan calls around anxiety and a
(14:37):
lot of uh personal self-doubtthat you we we dealt well worked
with on our own, but didn'thave in the same level.
Kelsey L Green (14:45):
Absolutely, yeah, that's an understatement
for sure.
Yeah, so to go back to Isuppose the the the way to start
and you know just getting somemomentum here, I I'll just say
again that it's going to feelpretty difficult at first,
probably, but I want toemphasize that the stakes here
are very high, right?
(15:07):
This is your actual brain, youractual life that we're talking
about.
And again, I'm not suggestingthat we throw our phones into
the river and like smash ourcomputers, go live in the woods,
right?
I'm saying use the tools astools.
You have a business online,that's amazing.
What a privilege.
But use that platform, use thesocial media as tools instead of
(15:33):
letting it use you.
Because of course, we know thatthis stuff is free.
There's a reason it's free.
You are the product, you know?
The metaphor I often use is uma hammer.
So a hammer can be used tobuild a beautiful house and it
can be used to like bashsomeone's hand, right?
And so I would never say likethrow the hammer away if you're
(15:56):
trying to build a house.
But the problem is if you startto be obsessed with the hammer,
you start to prioritize thehammer over everything else in
your life, and it's making youlike stressy and depressy, you
know.
Like, let's re-evaluate what ishappening here.
Claude F (16:11):
So I can understand, I'm thinking even for myself,
right?
I which I know I'm going to tryto do the challenge, which is
going to be hard.
But where I think it would bevery hard as well as well, is
like a no-screen like Netflix orTV.
You know, that is going to be achallenge as well.
(16:32):
Yeah.
Because I think what am I goingto do?
Jess K (16:37):
But you just before we started recording, you gave an
example of I picked up a bookbecause I didn't want to
interrupt people or how that'swhat I'm saying.
So you got other things youcould do.
And going back, we didn'talways have Netflix.
We had TV.
We had TV, but how many nightswere you're like, oh, I don't
like any of these shows?
So you'd go do something else.
Claude F (16:57):
I know.
I would have something.
No, I'm not like my husbandwatch TV all the time.
Uh well, that's that's adifferent thing.
I couldn't leave to you.
There you go.
You could go.
Kelsey L Green (17:06):
Yeah, and that's a that's a great point.
It is, you know, it's funnybecause when I started running
these challenges, someone theseare hard, they're challenging.
It's a challenge.
Someone said, I think I got alot of people kind of defensive
about it.
Like, I think that you shouldmake it a one screen at a time
challenge.
Claude F (17:22):
Like, oh, that didn't talk to challenge anymore.
Jess K (17:25):
I don't know.
That might still I was gonnasay I'm thinking myself, and
like at night, I'm usually doingwork and then also watching
something, and then usuallydoing something for our podcast
on the side.
So, like, I have like fourscreens going at once.
So, yeah, you're I do I I thinkbut to your point, doing one is
not any better.
It's like just get them all.
Kelsey L Green (17:47):
I think you know, that's I mean, that's an
amazing level of multitasking,and like wow, okay, you know.
Jess K (17:53):
I can do a lot better things with my brain though than
that.
Kelsey L Green (17:57):
I I would have the more that I that I do in
this space, the more I'mfinding, you know, that those,
you know, not saying it's notworking for you, but those kinds
of distractions are sodistracting, you know.
But I will just go back to thethe idea of leisure.
And one of the concepts forwhat to do with that void is
(18:19):
looking at what kinds of things,you know.
I think we all, yeah, TV hasalways been a thing, right?
But to your point, it wasn'talways like we had literally
thousands of options, you know,and so you'd be like, well,
watch an hour of this, but Idon't like the show after that
or whatever.
The idea is are therehigh-quality activities that you
could replace the the screentime with?
(18:42):
So I think I used to do likemultimedia collage watercolor
stuff in college beforesmartphones were a thing.
And I'm like, I just cannot atnight sit around and like
collage and like do art stuff.
And I'm like, gosh, it's toughto recall that time because
instead I just would be watchingso many hours of Netflix.
(19:05):
But the issue is like for yourbrain to have that creative
output and creative, I meancreative and you know, lots of
different things, projectsaround your house, connecting
with people, doing a volunteeractivity, taking a long, boring
walk, doing art, whatever it is.
Can you replace the scrollingin the Netflix just once in a
while?
(19:25):
I'm not saying every night,with a with a high quality
hobby, learning an instrumentor, like I said, doing art or
something like that.
And it sounds hard.
It sounds like it's gonna belike, oh, after work, I don't
want to do a hard thing, likeart or like an instrument or
whatever.
But for your brain and the waythat you're going to feel about
(19:48):
yourself, this is actually goingto be better for your for your
self esteem and for the way thatyou feel like you're showing up
in the world.
Jess K (19:57):
I think that your comment though, that it doesn't
have to be Every single night.
It could just be like a nightor two a week, just enough to
give your brain some exercise ina different way.
Kelsey L Green (20:08):
Exactly.
Or like, okay, I'm gonna do onehour of um something other than
the TV stuff while I still havesome energy, and then like wind
down with Netflix, whatever.
But can you just push back alittle bit, whether it be like a
day of the week or two or withlike time, just limiting that
time?
Claude F (20:26):
Yeah.
It's especially scrolling inbed, right?
That is something that can beremoved and taking a book
instead.
Jess K (20:34):
Kelsey, as we know, we're in this midst of this
loneliness epidemic, which wefeel some of the digital
overload is causing an elementof that.
You have something called howto build your circle, um, where
you do focus on bringing backpeople together.
What is that?
Kelsey L Green (20:50):
Yeah, thanks, Jess.
Thanks for that question.
So it's funny because I used tothink these were two completely
different topics in-personcommunity and digital
boundaries, right?
And I was always like, How do Ibring the messaging together?
And then like one day Irealized, oh my God, this is the
same message, right?
So essentially, and again, I'llsay it one more time just to
(21:15):
make sure everyone's cleardigital relationships are
important too.
And of course, you can meet alot more people than you can in
your local, you know, community.
Claude F (21:24):
Yeah.
Kelsey L Green (21:26):
But again, the issue is that we are longing for
connection.
I personally believe that therise of the smartphone,
especially, is the number onereason for the loneliness
epidemic, you know, reallyexacerbated by COVID.
There's other theories outthere too that have compounded
this, but I believe that's thenumber one reason.
And the issue is the moreconnection that we seek online
(21:50):
through these light touches likelikes and these little comments
and things, the less energy wehave and desire to go out and
build this in-person community.
And just to be clear, when Isay in-person, in my mind, it'd
be neat to like have these biggroups of friends that we all do
(22:13):
stuff with all the time andlike hang out, like besties, and
that's cool.
That's that's a great goal.
But I'm talking about the waythat we evolved as a species,
right?
With having an actual villagearound us with lots of different
ages, lots of different typesof people.
Obviously, we know that socialmedia is creating these echo
(22:36):
chambers, right?
Where we're all we're just kindof hearing the same stuff from
people, becoming less tolerantof each other.
And so I'm talking about can wereestablish chatting up people
in the grocery store and knowingwho your neighbors are, right?
And getting to know people thatare a little bit different.
So yeah, I have this coursecalled How to Build Your Circle.
(22:58):
And that is especially focusedon, well, there's an entire
module on digital boundaries,which will not come as a
surprise.
And then I talk about how totake these relationships to the
next level.
So from an acquaintance thatyou maybe like, if you play
pickleball, you see a pickleballthree times a week, to like how
do you start to build somethingthat you'd consider a
(23:20):
friendship, right?
So it's really focused on that.
Claude F (23:23):
It's almost like going back to basic that we lost
since we had a phone like orscreen, because now you can't
even see people, the way theytalk to each other through the
screen is like you would neversay that in face-to-face in real
person.
So it's going back to what isactually being nice, human,
(23:45):
considerate that I feel likewith screen, all that a lot of
times for some people it goesout the door and there's there
are no filters.
Kelsey L Green (23:55):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I know.
Jess K (23:57):
So, within that too, I think the other cool thing about
it is it kind of gets you toremind yourself that these
people are people, they'rehuman.
So everybody has ways toconnect, and it doesn't have to
be a connection on you know thesame things or you are the same
person, which is kind of similarto the work besties ethos,
right?
Like we see it all the timewhere there's work besties with
(24:18):
huge age gaps, work besties ofvery different diverse
backgrounds, different life,different lives, different
different experiences, butthere's always something that
bonds them.
So you made a comment about howyou like help people figure out
ways to meet in real life.
Do you have any quick tips ortricks that we could share with
the work bestie community onthat?
Kelsey L Green (24:41):
Yeah, sure, Jess.
Well, I think you make a greatpoint about the way that people
come together, you know, and fora lot of people, they don't
maybe have these opportunitiesbecause of, you know, remote
workplaces and again, just thestuff we've been talking about
this entire episode now, right?
But but I guess, you know,unsurprisingly, my number one
(25:02):
tip would be to put your phoneaway in public to really focus
on being present, which isprobably gonna feel super boring
at first because we're so usedto like, oh, we're waiting in
line.
This is a great time to checkemail, like why not?
And the reason is again, we'vejust sort of lost the ability to
(25:23):
just kind of chit-chat witheach other, right?
And so trying to strengthenthat muscle again of being out
in the world.
And I will acknowledge forintroverts, you know, this is
tougher, like absolutely, nodoubt.
But trying to strengthen thatmuscle of chatting with people,
being interested in people,right?
I mean, I go through some, likehonestly, a little bit
(25:46):
painstakingly, the steps youwould take to pull someone into
your circle.
And it's it's not rocketscience, it's like old PR stuff
that you can use, right?
Which is basically just likeask people questions, be
interested in their lives.
Can you find one thing that youcan relate to in what they're
sharing, even if you're verydifferent?
(26:08):
And that's one of my favoritetricks for making buddies is
like we could be reallydifferent.
And usually there's something Ican find about them that I
really like.
Like this guy in his 60s, verydifferent political views from
me.
Okay, okay.
This guy really likes his cat.
I love that he loves his cat.
(26:28):
That is great.
Like, I like that, you knowwhat I mean?
Jess K (26:31):
Yeah, so smart.
Because I think I went back tobefore, like, you can always
find something in someone good,right?
Claude F (26:37):
And and in that case, you don't have the algorithm
that is going to serve you.
You are the algorithm.
What it's true, right?
Yeah.
Because at the end of the day,with your phone, you or
whatever, you have the algorithmthat is going to serve you
things that you believe that youalways want to see.
But you know, you don't have analgorithm when you speak with
(26:58):
someone that is totallydifferent, but you learn from
each other and you can haveconnections.
Kelsey L Green (27:05):
Claude, I think that's actually a really
important point, you know, thatyou're making is that going back
to to the young people, youknow, that's one of the the
issues is that they're losingthat practice of having to
navigate these relationships inreal time.
And I mean embodiedrelationships, right?
Where you're facing a person,you know, and yeah, they might
(27:29):
be really different from you.
You might have like a littlebit of disagreement, it's a
little tense, it's not so easy.
And I think we all, not justthe young people, but we all are
sort of losing the ability tonavigate that, and that's how we
evolved as a species, right?
Oh, totally.
Jess K (27:48):
You made a comment about how when you do take the step
to put your phone down, it mightbe a little bit uncomfortable,
but both sides in thediscomfort.
So, how is leaning intodiscomfort for you really shaped
your work and what you'reseeing in others?
Kelsey L Green (28:07):
Gosh.
Jessia, that's a greatquestion.
And I think one that actuallyinforms a lot more of my life
than just the digital space,digital boundaries.
Let's say we're working on ourmental health, just being able
to manage our emotions better.
Sitting with discomfort is soimportant.
And so I'm actually working onthis in multiple spheres.
(28:31):
So, for example, just beingoutdoors, backpacking, it's so
uncomfortable.
It's like just really suckssometimes.
You're cold, hot, dirty, pee inthe woods, gross.
And it's like, okay, can I sitwith this discomfort and be okay
with it?
Like it's not the end of theworld.
I'm gonna get home fine.
I'll take a shower when I getthere.
It's okay when you're thinkingabout strengthening your mental
(28:55):
health.
Like, are there things that aretough?
Triggers, not to go off on thison this tangent, but discomfort
is really important to be ableto sit with in general, right?
And setting up some boundariesin your life in your digital
space is really no different,right?
We go back to the addictionconversation.
(29:17):
If you're minimizing yourdrinking, if you're working on
overeating, if you're got alittle shoppy habit, like
online.
It's any of these things arethings that you're going to have
to sit with some discomfortaround in order to get a handle
on.
I don't think we'd ever makethe argument if you're an
alcoholic that like, well, it'suncomfortable to stop drinking.
Jess K (29:41):
So I mean you bring up a good point.
I think that's one of thethings we think about with um
whether it's drugs, alcohol, allthese things that are like bad,
being on all of your digitalelements is just as bad for your
health as well.
So it is just as severe andinteresting to see that the
(30:02):
discomfort is probably just aspainful, but it's so important
to figure out that balance foryour personal health.
Kelsey L Green (30:10):
Yeah, and that's it's a nuanced point, I think,
because of course we utilizetechnology, there's a lot of
great things about it, and soit's not so clean cut to say
it's not like heroin.
It's probably just like ahundred percent bad all the
time, no matter what, right?
But there's so many greatthings to be found, and because
(30:33):
of that, I think it's easy tojustify the use across the
board.
So it's the the mindset islike, well, there's some great
things about this, so that meansthat all of it is great, and
you know, out of control use isfine because look at the
benefits.
And the research shows thatonce you start to restrict down
your digital use, you'reprobably gonna reap about the
(30:56):
same level of benefit from itwhile also being able to do so
much more in your life.
Jess K (31:03):
So your health will get better and you're more
productive, so you'll even feelbetter about yourself.
Claude F (31:09):
So, Kelsey, how do we reconnect to real life without
disconnecting from the world?
So, you gave us so many greattools.
Can you give us a little recapof all those tools that the
commun our community canactually do?
Kelsey L Green (31:23):
Absolutely, yes.
Then the number one tip here isthat you can still do, you
know, the things that you needto do online.
You can still scroll your feed.
I would point out you can beruthless with curating your feed
so that you are getting moregood stuff, less crappy stuff,
right, in your feeds.
But the point is you can stilldo all of this stuff, but having
(31:48):
some parameters around it,setting some boundaries for
yourself and then actuallyfollowing them.
That's the tough part, right?
It's like building any otherhabit.
So classic habit building skillhere, following those
boundaries is going to benefityou in both your productivity,
your focus, and your digitaldigital space, as well as in the
(32:09):
rest of your life.
And there is a lot of rest ofyour life to it to address.
Jess K (32:15):
That's awesome.
That was, I think, exactly whatwe needed to hear and what our
work best community needed tohear.
Claude F (32:21):
And you know, that's the reminder we all need
noise, more presence.
And it's not just unpluggingforever, it's about remembering
where the real connection livesand in conversation, community,
and really showing up foreverybody.
I love that.
Jess K (32:37):
Yeah.
So to learn more about Kelseyor to be a part of one of her
communities, visit KelseyLgreen.com because sometimes you
can find out the bestconnections you can make are the
ones right in front of you.
Claude F (32:52):
And if this episode made you rethink how you
connect, send it to your workbestie and maybe talk about it
face to face.
That's right.
Face to face.
Thank you again so much.
Kelsey L Green (33:03):
Thank you.
It's been a pleasure.
So fun to be on today.
Jess K (33:06):
Remember, whether you're swapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings, or just
sending that perfectly timedmeme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
squad.
Claude F (33:19):
So keep lifting each other up, laughing through the
chaos, and of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive, and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Jess K (33:32):
Work besties!
What if the thing keeping you from real connection
is the way you're trying tostay connected?
Because being always on doesn'tmean we are truly connected.
Today's guest, Kelsey Green,strategist, speaker, and
community builder, helps peoplereclaim focus and creativity
through digital minimalism.
Claude F (00:19):
She's the creator of Summit in Six and how to build
your circle.
Jess K (00:24):
Together, we're exploring how to reconnect to
real life without disconnectingfrom the world.
Hi, I'm Claude.
And I'm Jess.
Claude F (00:32):
We are corporate employees by day, entrepreneurs
by night, and work besties forlife.
Jess K (00:38):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other
up, laugh through the chaos,and thrive together in every
industry.
Work besties! Welcome, Kensty.
Kelsey L Green (00:51):
I'm so excited to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Jess K (00:54):
Awesome.
We know you've spent a lot oftime entangling people from
digital overload.
Let's start with you helping usunderstand what got you into
this journey.
Kelsey L Green (01:05):
Absolutely.
It followed a path, I think,that's similar to many of us
here, right?
Where I was working inhigh-intensity roles, a hip
burnout, right?
And I had sort of lost touchwith what it meant to have any
boundaries in my life in lots ofways, but certainly digital
boundaries, right?
(01:25):
So I was doing the constantscrolling because, of course, if
you have to create content, ifyou are responding to clients,
if you're building a business,it's very tempting.
And sometimes you think youneed to be on all the time.
So I was responding to texts atall hours of the day and night.
I had all the notifications,bing, bing, bing, all the sounds
(01:46):
on my phone, and do themulti-screen thing, like
watching a Netflix show,answering emails, you know, all
of that.
And when I hit a rock bottom inmultiple kinds of ways, that
was one of the things I startedto examine was is this
contributing to my unhappiness,to my inability to focus, and to
(02:10):
my general feeling ofdisconnection from other people.
Claude F (02:14):
When you say when you, you know, you hit rock bottom,
what was when did you find outthat it was not it was time to
step up?
Kelsey L Green (02:24):
That's a great question.
There's been this new diagnosisthat many of my friends have
received, and I'm notquestioning this diagnosis at
all, but that is adult womenbeing diagnosed with ADHD.
Right.
And I thought I had this too.
I'm a pretty hyper person andrun on a fast clock, I've been
told.
(02:44):
And so I was certain I had thistoo, because I just couldn't
produce the work.
And granted, I was in a fieldthat is notorious for burnout,
the nonprofit sector, right?
But even my own personal work,I had in my master's, I had
written a dissertationpost-human geographies, looking
(03:04):
at the relationships betweenhumans and non-humans from a
vulnerability lens.
And that was very, very hard,but I was able to do it, right?
That was 10 years ago, 10 plusyears ago, you know?
And now I'm having a problemputting a one pager together for
a client.
Like, what is happening?
Right?
I don't know.
Have you have you experienced Iknow you talk to lots of women?
Claude F (03:26):
No, definitely, because now with all the
scrolling, right?
It's like every 10 seconds,it's instant.
So you're like, okay, I I seemyself even watching Netflix
when the scene drags a littlebit.
I'm like, okay, let's go, youknow, and it's 30.
Kelsey L Green (03:44):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Right.
And I'm sure this isn't news toyou, but there's a lot of
research coming out.
There's a lot of data that shownow we are essentially mining
for this dopamine when we dothat, right?
And it does physically changeour brains, and it makes it more
(04:06):
difficult for us actually tosit and focus, right?
Our attention is morefractured, we're used to those
quick dopamine hits over andover again.
And it is it is reallychanging, changing the way that
we are able to be present and tofocus.
Claude F (04:22):
So, how do you actually stop this?
Because you're talking aboutdigital minimalism.
So, how do you go to this?
And do you even see adifference?
Kelsey L Green (04:35):
Oh, I love that question, Claude.
Thanks.
Yes, the answer is absolutelyyes.
So, I'll talk about some of thethings that I did and am doing
currently, and in the way thatit's impacted my life in a
positive way.
So, the first thing is I tookall sound notifications and any
(04:57):
flashing notifications off myphone.
So, I, with the exception of mymom, um, she was just
experiencing some health issues.
So, she's a call-through break,you know, breakthrough caller
person.
But with with um everyone else,including clients, I have
notifications off.
So that means that I don't havecalls coming through to my
(05:18):
phone or texts.
And I try to block the timethat I'm going to be answering
texts, answering calls, and haha, you know, on Instagram,
right?
Um, I also use lots of otherapps.
So I'm not a Luddite.
That's someone that doesn'twant to use technology at all.
Like I love technology.
There's so many cool things.
(05:39):
I don't think we can uh denythe benefits that technology has
had on our lives.
So I have a whip strap, whichis like a fitness tracker, just
doesn't have a screen on it.
I use the app on my phone.
I have, you know, I have lotsof cool apps that I use.
It's just that I try to blockthe time that I'm using the
apps.
Does that always work?
(06:00):
No.
Because something we'll talkabout maybe in a minute is that
it does take quite a lot ofintention.
The other things that I do, Iam working very hard on setting
a 7 p.m.
to 7 a.m.
uh no screen block.
And that is where 7 p.m.
(06:22):
hits.
I go to bed early, so I willsay that.
If you go to bed at 12, 7, 7,it's probably gonna be that's a
long stretch, right?
But I go to bed around 8 to8:30.
So at 7 p.m., all screens off.
So phones put away on do notdisturb mode again with a call
through for my mom and stepdad.
Absolutely never ever scrollingin bed.
(06:42):
That's like the worst.
I think we know that, right?
So screens off and Netflix,whatever, all that's off.
Then I will say that I get uparound five and sometimes I want
to write in the morning.
So if I want to do a deepproject, if I want to write, you
know, if I want to do somethinghard, like in the back end of,
you know, Kajabi or something,that's a fine time.
(07:03):
I can get on my computer and dothat, but it's absolutely not a
time to be on Instagram, to beblooping around, you know, just
kind of scrolling.
Yeah, on the desktop, you canstill obviously be on Instagram,
right?
And then I turn the phone backon at seven.
Claude F (07:18):
So I was going to ask, because for example, Kindle, is
that considered a book or is itconsidered a screen?
Kelsey L Green (07:26):
For me personally, I consider that a
screen.
And I one of my goals is tonever own a Kindle.
And I I feel like I see thatI'm a backpacker and a traveler,
and I see people with Kindles,and sometimes I'm quite jealous.
Like, that looks so light, andyou have what, 900 books on
there?
I don't know.
Yeah.
It's an amazing tool for mepersonally.
(07:46):
I just I I love books, I lovephysical books, so I won't plan
to use one.
That could change, you know,maybe, but um, I heard that
Kindle is also different foryour eyes than the blue light
from screens.
Jess K (07:59):
So, Kelsey, knowing that a lot of our listeners are
either personal creators or inin a corporate environment, so
they do use both of the digitalelement for personal and for
professional.
Ultimately, our work isdigital, like we can't avoid it.
So, how do we set thoseboundaries without that checking
out completely?
Kelsey L Green (08:20):
I'll just note, just to echo your point, we're
meeting on this very coolplatform, digital platform,
obviously.
Yeah, and I'm delighted to behere and be connecting like
this.
And there's so many greatthings, the digital space.
So I just want to be clearabout that again.
But the issue is if you have acorporate job, high power job,
(08:40):
if you're on call, if you're adoctor, there's there might be
situations where right now youcan't set as strong of digital
boundaries as you might want to.
You know, I totally understandthat.
The issue is that for most ofus, we absolutely could be
setting better boundaries, butwe use our businesses to justify
completely out of controldigital use, right?
(09:03):
And uh, this is this littlepersonal aside.
This started to really, reallycome to the forefront.
I was in a relationship sort oflong distance, and um, we both
had businesses, but he was justnot able to stay off of his
phone during our very limitedtime together and notifications
going off all the time, socialmedia notifications.
(09:24):
And it got to the point whereI'm like, I have a business too,
I actually have clients aswell.
But if you have set yourself upto be constantly always
available, that's a trap that'sgonna be pretty tough to unwind
from and get out of, right?
And it became a real issue.
And I think that was when I wasjust emerging to understand
(09:46):
that this was a value.
Like this is becoming a corevalue in my life where I am
fully prioritizing in-personrelationships, space for my
mental health, my brain to havea break from screens and really
wanting to build community offof screens as well as on, right?
I don't, but I don't have anyproblem connecting people
(10:06):
online.
That's you know, that's likethere's so many cool spaces for
us to do that, like where wemet.
But the issue is that the moretime that you spend in those
spaces, the less time you'regonna have for your own brain to
come up with really cool ideas,to just have some breaks, to
breathe, to process stuff,right?
(10:27):
And the less time you have tokeep going or keep these
in-person relationships goingand nurture the actual physical
people in your life.
Jess K (10:37):
So I guess the way you'd state it is it's not don't do
it, it's more figure out thatbalance for yourself to still be
able to be both efficient inyour job, but also building
relationships.
Kelsey L Green (10:49):
That's a great way to say it.
And to be honest, one of thethings that I found was, and
you've perhaps heard thisresearch too, the more focused
time you have and the less time,often the more productive you
are.
So one of the very easy tricksis to literally put your phone
out of sight.
There's a study, I think I'vegot it right here, called the
(11:11):
Brain Drain that shows that whenyour phone is in sight of you,
even if it's face down, yourattention is just more
fractured.
So that means that we'reliterally just a bit dumber when
our phones are around.
And so you can imagine that ifyou're also having an in-person
relationship uh conversation andyour phone's sitting there, or
if there are phones sittingthere, you're just not able to
(11:33):
pay as much attention and you'rejust less present.
So, to your point, yes, youknow, I think that setting up
these boundaries is going tohelp with productivity, with
focus, and with feeling like,you know, we all say we we don't
have enough time, there's solittle time and we're all
strapped for time.
(11:54):
I will say when you start tospend more time off of your
screens, you're like, wow, I do.
I got a lot more time.
Claude F (12:02):
So, did you see a difference for you about being
able to focus more from what youhad said earlier?
Kelsey L Green (12:10):
Absolutely.
Yeah, and especially with someof those deeper projects.
I call it deep work.
There's a book by Cal Newport,one of the main thinkers that I
follow.
So he wrote this book, DigitalMinimalism, and he also wrote
Deep Work.
And that is basically all aboutthat.
When you start to, I will say,it it is hard, right?
(12:31):
Especially at first.
Jess K (12:33):
Yeah, yeah.
My next question was gonna belike, How did you start?
And what are tips for people tostart?
Claude F (12:38):
Because that I it's like being, you know, like we
became drug addict on our phone,about our phone.
Kelsey L Green (12:45):
Yeah, I use the addiction metaphor quite a bit.
It can feel a little intense tosome people, but it is that
same that same compulsion.
And I I mentioned earlier I runthese 24-hour screen-free
challenges.
And if you're not sure ifyou're addicted to your screens,
try to go 24 hours or even likesix for a lot of people and see
(13:06):
what happens, right?
And then you you will know howintegral screens are to your
life and how often you are justseeking something to fill that
space.
We're so unaccustomed to beingbored anymore.
And I don't know how old youtwo are, but I recall living
just fine before cell phones anduh yes, yeah, yeah.
Claude F (13:30):
You know, it was you had more connection with people,
you could do like I feel bad,even for the kids nowadays,
where everything is beingrecorded, like we all did stupid
things being young, but justour little circle knew about it,
right?
Or it was an ear say, but nownow it is you can't escape.
Kelsey L Green (13:52):
Yeah, so I feel the same.
I I read a book called TheAnxious Generation, and I get a
lot of questions from parentsabout what to do about the kids.
And I'm not a parent myself, soI'm like, Yeah, I don't know.
I'm just trying to help adultsover here.
We got it pretty bad.
The anxious generation talksabout what's happening with the
youth, and so if you're aparent, this is a critical
reading for anyone that has ayoung person.
Jess K (14:14):
And yeah, I've read it and we I talk about it a lot
with my friends that have kidsthe same age as my daughter.
It's very eye-opening becauseit's impacting us in a very
different way than it's evenimpacting them because to them
to them, they don't know anydifferent.
This is not something that likeyou have a comparison to, and
it's it's causing a lot morethan calls around anxiety and a
(14:37):
lot of uh personal self-doubtthat you we we dealt well worked
with on our own, but didn'thave in the same level.
Kelsey L Green (14:45):
Absolutely, yeah, that's an understatement
for sure.
Yeah, so to go back to Isuppose the the the way to start
and you know just getting somemomentum here, I I'll just say
again that it's going to feelpretty difficult at first,
probably, but I want toemphasize that the stakes here
are very high, right?
(15:07):
This is your actual brain, youractual life that we're talking
about.
And again, I'm not suggestingthat we throw our phones into
the river and like smash ourcomputers, go live in the woods,
right?
I'm saying use the tools astools.
You have a business online,that's amazing.
What a privilege.
But use that platform, use thesocial media as tools instead of
(15:33):
letting it use you.
Because of course, we know thatthis stuff is free.
There's a reason it's free.
You are the product, you know?
The metaphor I often use is uma hammer.
So a hammer can be used tobuild a beautiful house and it
can be used to like bashsomeone's hand, right?
And so I would never say likethrow the hammer away if you're
(15:56):
trying to build a house.
But the problem is if you startto be obsessed with the hammer,
you start to prioritize thehammer over everything else in
your life, and it's making youlike stressy and depressy, you
know.
Like, let's re-evaluate what ishappening here.
Claude F (16:11):
So I can understand, I'm thinking even for myself,
right?
I which I know I'm going to tryto do the challenge, which is
going to be hard.
But where I think it would bevery hard as well as well, is
like a no-screen like Netflix orTV.
You know, that is going to be achallenge as well.
(16:32):
Yeah.
Because I think what am I goingto do?
Jess K (16:37):
But you just before we started recording, you gave an
example of I picked up a bookbecause I didn't want to
interrupt people or how that'swhat I'm saying.
So you got other things youcould do.
And going back, we didn'talways have Netflix.
We had TV.
We had TV, but how many nightswere you're like, oh, I don't
like any of these shows?
So you'd go do something else.
Claude F (16:57):
I know.
I would have something.
No, I'm not like my husbandwatch TV all the time.
Uh well, that's that's adifferent thing.
I couldn't leave to you.
There you go.
You could go.
Kelsey L Green (17:06):
Yeah, and that's a that's a great point.
It is, you know, it's funnybecause when I started running
these challenges, someone theseare hard, they're challenging.
It's a challenge.
Someone said, I think I got alot of people kind of defensive
about it.
Like, I think that you shouldmake it a one screen at a time
challenge.
Claude F (17:22):
Like, oh, that didn't talk to challenge anymore.
Jess K (17:25):
I don't know.
That might still I was gonnasay I'm thinking myself, and
like at night, I'm usually doingwork and then also watching
something, and then usuallydoing something for our podcast
on the side.
So, like, I have like fourscreens going at once.
So, yeah, you're I do I I thinkbut to your point, doing one is
not any better.
It's like just get them all.
Kelsey L Green (17:47):
I think you know, that's I mean, that's an
amazing level of multitasking,and like wow, okay, you know.
Jess K (17:53):
I can do a lot better things with my brain though than
that.
Kelsey L Green (17:57):
I I would have the more that I that I do in
this space, the more I'mfinding, you know, that those,
you know, not saying it's notworking for you, but those kinds
of distractions are sodistracting, you know.
But I will just go back to thethe idea of leisure.
And one of the concepts forwhat to do with that void is
(18:19):
looking at what kinds of things,you know.
I think we all, yeah, TV hasalways been a thing, right?
But to your point, it wasn'talways like we had literally
thousands of options, you know,and so you'd be like, well,
watch an hour of this, but Idon't like the show after that
or whatever.
The idea is are therehigh-quality activities that you
could replace the the screentime with?
(18:42):
So I think I used to do likemultimedia collage watercolor
stuff in college beforesmartphones were a thing.
And I'm like, I just cannot atnight sit around and like
collage and like do art stuff.
And I'm like, gosh, it's toughto recall that time because
instead I just would be watchingso many hours of Netflix.
(19:05):
But the issue is like for yourbrain to have that creative
output and creative, I meancreative and you know, lots of
different things, projectsaround your house, connecting
with people, doing a volunteeractivity, taking a long, boring
walk, doing art, whatever it is.
Can you replace the scrollingin the Netflix just once in a
while?
(19:25):
I'm not saying every night,with a with a high quality
hobby, learning an instrumentor, like I said, doing art or
something like that.
And it sounds hard.
It sounds like it's gonna belike, oh, after work, I don't
want to do a hard thing, likeart or like an instrument or
whatever.
But for your brain and the waythat you're going to feel about
(19:48):
yourself, this is actually goingto be better for your for your
self esteem and for the way thatyou feel like you're showing up
in the world.
Jess K (19:57):
I think that your comment though, that it doesn't
have to be Every single night.
It could just be like a nightor two a week, just enough to
give your brain some exercise ina different way.
Kelsey L Green (20:08):
Exactly.
Or like, okay, I'm gonna do onehour of um something other than
the TV stuff while I still havesome energy, and then like wind
down with Netflix, whatever.
But can you just push back alittle bit, whether it be like a
day of the week or two or withlike time, just limiting that
time?
Claude F (20:26):
Yeah.
It's especially scrolling inbed, right?
That is something that can beremoved and taking a book
instead.
Jess K (20:34):
Kelsey, as we know, we're in this midst of this
loneliness epidemic, which wefeel some of the digital
overload is causing an elementof that.
You have something called howto build your circle, um, where
you do focus on bringing backpeople together.
What is that?
Kelsey L Green (20:50):
Yeah, thanks, Jess.
Thanks for that question.
So it's funny because I used tothink these were two completely
different topics in-personcommunity and digital
boundaries, right?
And I was always like, How do Ibring the messaging together?
And then like one day Irealized, oh my God, this is the
same message, right?
So essentially, and again, I'llsay it one more time just to
(21:15):
make sure everyone's cleardigital relationships are
important too.
And of course, you can meet alot more people than you can in
your local, you know, community.
Claude F (21:24):
Yeah.
Kelsey L Green (21:26):
But again, the issue is that we are longing for
connection.
I personally believe that therise of the smartphone,
especially, is the number onereason for the loneliness
epidemic, you know, reallyexacerbated by COVID.
There's other theories outthere too that have compounded
this, but I believe that's thenumber one reason.
And the issue is the moreconnection that we seek online
(21:50):
through these light touches likelikes and these little comments
and things, the less energy wehave and desire to go out and
build this in-person community.
And just to be clear, when Isay in-person, in my mind, it'd
be neat to like have these biggroups of friends that we all do
(22:13):
stuff with all the time andlike hang out, like besties, and
that's cool.
That's that's a great goal.
But I'm talking about the waythat we evolved as a species,
right?
With having an actual villagearound us with lots of different
ages, lots of different typesof people.
Obviously, we know that socialmedia is creating these echo
(22:36):
chambers, right?
Where we're all we're just kindof hearing the same stuff from
people, becoming less tolerantof each other.
And so I'm talking about can wereestablish chatting up people
in the grocery store and knowingwho your neighbors are, right?
And getting to know people thatare a little bit different.
So yeah, I have this coursecalled How to Build Your Circle.
(22:58):
And that is especially focusedon, well, there's an entire
module on digital boundaries,which will not come as a
surprise.
And then I talk about how totake these relationships to the
next level.
So from an acquaintance thatyou maybe like, if you play
pickleball, you see a pickleballthree times a week, to like how
do you start to build somethingthat you'd consider a
(23:20):
friendship, right?
So it's really focused on that.
Claude F (23:23):
It's almost like going back to basic that we lost
since we had a phone like orscreen, because now you can't
even see people, the way theytalk to each other through the
screen is like you would neversay that in face-to-face in real
person.
So it's going back to what isactually being nice, human,
(23:45):
considerate that I feel likewith screen, all that a lot of
times for some people it goesout the door and there's there
are no filters.
Kelsey L Green (23:55):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I know.
Jess K (23:57):
So, within that too, I think the other cool thing about
it is it kind of gets you toremind yourself that these
people are people, they'rehuman.
So everybody has ways toconnect, and it doesn't have to
be a connection on you know thesame things or you are the same
person, which is kind of similarto the work besties ethos,
right?
Like we see it all the timewhere there's work besties with
(24:18):
huge age gaps, work besties ofvery different diverse
backgrounds, different life,different lives, different
different experiences, butthere's always something that
bonds them.
So you made a comment about howyou like help people figure out
ways to meet in real life.
Do you have any quick tips ortricks that we could share with
the work bestie community onthat?
Kelsey L Green (24:41):
Yeah, sure, Jess.
Well, I think you make a greatpoint about the way that people
come together, you know, and fora lot of people, they don't
maybe have these opportunitiesbecause of, you know, remote
workplaces and again, just thestuff we've been talking about
this entire episode now, right?
But but I guess, you know,unsurprisingly, my number one
(25:02):
tip would be to put your phoneaway in public to really focus
on being present, which isprobably gonna feel super boring
at first because we're so usedto like, oh, we're waiting in
line.
This is a great time to checkemail, like why not?
And the reason is again, we'vejust sort of lost the ability to
(25:23):
just kind of chit-chat witheach other, right?
And so trying to strengthenthat muscle again of being out
in the world.
And I will acknowledge forintroverts, you know, this is
tougher, like absolutely, nodoubt.
But trying to strengthen thatmuscle of chatting with people,
being interested in people,right?
I mean, I go through some, likehonestly, a little bit
(25:46):
painstakingly, the steps youwould take to pull someone into
your circle.
And it's it's not rocketscience, it's like old PR stuff
that you can use, right?
Which is basically just likeask people questions, be
interested in their lives.
Can you find one thing that youcan relate to in what they're
sharing, even if you're verydifferent?
(26:08):
And that's one of my favoritetricks for making buddies is
like we could be reallydifferent.
And usually there's something Ican find about them that I
really like.
Like this guy in his 60s, verydifferent political views from
me.
Okay, okay.
This guy really likes his cat.
I love that he loves his cat.
(26:28):
That is great.
Like, I like that, you knowwhat I mean?
Jess K (26:31):
Yeah, so smart.
Because I think I went back tobefore, like, you can always
find something in someone good,right?
Claude F (26:37):
And and in that case, you don't have the algorithm
that is going to serve you.
You are the algorithm.
What it's true, right?
Yeah.
Because at the end of the day,with your phone, you or
whatever, you have the algorithmthat is going to serve you
things that you believe that youalways want to see.
But you know, you don't have analgorithm when you speak with
(26:58):
someone that is totallydifferent, but you learn from
each other and you can haveconnections.
Kelsey L Green (27:05):
Claude, I think that's actually a really
important point, you know, thatyou're making is that going back
to to the young people, youknow, that's one of the the
issues is that they're losingthat practice of having to
navigate these relationships inreal time.
And I mean embodiedrelationships, right?
Where you're facing a person,you know, and yeah, they might
(27:29):
be really different from you.
You might have like a littlebit of disagreement, it's a
little tense, it's not so easy.
And I think we all, not justthe young people, but we all are
sort of losing the ability tonavigate that, and that's how we
evolved as a species, right?
Oh, totally.
Jess K (27:48):
You made a comment about how when you do take the step
to put your phone down, it mightbe a little bit uncomfortable,
but both sides in thediscomfort.
So, how is leaning intodiscomfort for you really shaped
your work and what you'reseeing in others?
Kelsey L Green (28:07):
Gosh.
Jessia, that's a greatquestion.
And I think one that actuallyinforms a lot more of my life
than just the digital space,digital boundaries.
Let's say we're working on ourmental health, just being able
to manage our emotions better.
Sitting with discomfort is soimportant.
And so I'm actually working onthis in multiple spheres.
(28:31):
So, for example, just beingoutdoors, backpacking, it's so
uncomfortable.
It's like just really suckssometimes.
You're cold, hot, dirty, pee inthe woods, gross.
And it's like, okay, can I sitwith this discomfort and be okay
with it?
Like it's not the end of theworld.
I'm gonna get home fine.
I'll take a shower when I getthere.
It's okay when you're thinkingabout strengthening your mental
(28:55):
health.
Like, are there things that aretough?
Triggers, not to go off on thison this tangent, but discomfort
is really important to be ableto sit with in general, right?
And setting up some boundariesin your life in your digital
space is really no different,right?
We go back to the addictionconversation.
(29:17):
If you're minimizing yourdrinking, if you're working on
overeating, if you're got alittle shoppy habit, like
online.
It's any of these things arethings that you're going to have
to sit with some discomfortaround in order to get a handle
on.
I don't think we'd ever makethe argument if you're an
alcoholic that like, well, it'suncomfortable to stop drinking.
Jess K (29:41):
So I mean you bring up a good point.
I think that's one of thethings we think about with um
whether it's drugs, alcohol, allthese things that are like bad,
being on all of your digitalelements is just as bad for your
health as well.
So it is just as severe andinteresting to see that the
(30:02):
discomfort is probably just aspainful, but it's so important
to figure out that balance foryour personal health.
Kelsey L Green (30:10):
Yeah, and that's it's a nuanced point, I think,
because of course we utilizetechnology, there's a lot of
great things about it, and soit's not so clean cut to say
it's not like heroin.
It's probably just like ahundred percent bad all the
time, no matter what, right?
But there's so many greatthings to be found, and because
(30:33):
of that, I think it's easy tojustify the use across the
board.
So it's the the mindset islike, well, there's some great
things about this, so that meansthat all of it is great, and
you know, out of control use isfine because look at the
benefits.
And the research shows thatonce you start to restrict down
your digital use, you'reprobably gonna reap about the
(30:56):
same level of benefit from itwhile also being able to do so
much more in your life.
Jess K (31:03):
So your health will get better and you're more
productive, so you'll even feelbetter about yourself.
Claude F (31:09):
So, Kelsey, how do we reconnect to real life without
disconnecting from the world?
So, you gave us so many greattools.
Can you give us a little recapof all those tools that the
commun our community canactually do?
Kelsey L Green (31:23):
Absolutely, yes.
Then the number one tip here isthat you can still do, you
know, the things that you needto do online.
You can still scroll your feed.
I would point out you can beruthless with curating your feed
so that you are getting moregood stuff, less crappy stuff,
right, in your feeds.
But the point is you can stilldo all of this stuff, but having
(31:48):
some parameters around it,setting some boundaries for
yourself and then actuallyfollowing them.
That's the tough part, right?
It's like building any otherhabit.
So classic habit building skillhere, following those
boundaries is going to benefityou in both your productivity,
your focus, and your digitaldigital space, as well as in the
(32:09):
rest of your life.
And there is a lot of rest ofyour life to it to address.
Jess K (32:15):
That's awesome.
That was, I think, exactly whatwe needed to hear and what our
work best community needed tohear.
Claude F (32:21):
And you know, that's the reminder we all need
noise, more presence.
And it's not just unpluggingforever, it's about remembering
where the real connection livesand in conversation, community,
and really showing up foreverybody.
I love that.
Jess K (32:37):
Yeah.
So to learn more about Kelseyor to be a part of one of her
communities, visit KelseyLgreen.com because sometimes you
can find out the bestconnections you can make are the
ones right in front of you.
Claude F (32:52):
And if this episode made you rethink how you
connect, send it to your workbestie and maybe talk about it
face to face.
That's right.
Face to face.
Thank you again so much.
Kelsey L Green (33:03):
Thank you.
It's been a pleasure.
So fun to be on today.
Jess K (33:06):
Remember, whether you're swapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings, or just
sending that perfectly timedmeme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
squad.
Claude F (33:19):
So keep lifting each other up, laughing through the
chaos, and of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive, and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Jess K (33:32):
Work besties!
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