April 28, 2020 • 23 mins
Randi Weingarten ’80, president of the American Federation of Teachers, and Dean Alex Colvin discuss the “return of the strike” and how Weingarten has worked to build community both inside and outside of the union.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Diane Burton (00:01):
Work is all around us.
It defines us.
The future of work impactsnearly every person on our
planet and the ILR School atCornell University is
influencing policy and practiceon the most pressing issues
facing employees and employers.
In the coming months.
our series,"Work! Exploring thefuture of work, labor and
(00:22):
employment," will featureseveral prominent leaders in the
labor movement.
In this episode, AmericanFederation of Teachers Union
President Randi Weingarten talkswith Dean Colvin.
Alex Colvin (00:36):
So to kick things off, I wanted to talk about
something that took me bysurprise.
I've been studying laborrelations for awhile and I've
been watching the slow declineof the strike as a weapon really
since the 70s and 80s and thoseof us who write about collective
bargaining had been buildingthat into our analysis saying,
look, we're not seeing theresults out of collective
(00:58):
bargaining that you'd hopebecause the strike weapons
gotten weaker and weaker.
But there's been something of aturnaround.
And when I was thinking aboutwhen the turnaround started
happening, one of the big eventswas the 2012 Chicago teachers'
strike that was a real signaturestrike in terms of succeeding as
a strike and suggesting thatthere's a power still in the
(01:22):
strike.
We've seen more recently strikesin a number of settings.
The GM strike last year, thebiggest one since the seventies.
But education has been a realhotbed of strike activity.
The Chicago teachers strikinggain, the LA teachers' strike.
It's been interesting to see thesuccess of those strikes.
Why do you think that we've seenthis return of the strike as a
(01:46):
weapon in your sector ineducation?
Why have they been successfulthere and what can we take away
from that?
Randi Weingarten (01:52):
So I think that the strike in education
actually means somethingdifferent today then it did
30-40 years ago in education inthat there's been an
understanding that we have to beintentional about community and
(02:19):
that community is not only ournew density but our new
responsibility.
So what you've seen in strikesfrom the Chicago teacher strike
in'12 but I would actually sayboth the teacher strikes and the
private sector strikes in'17,'18and'19 was a very intentional
(02:44):
joining of the issues that theworkers were raising with issues
that community needed.
Teachers want what children needwas a signature focus for us in
so many of these.
This was not a strike againstcommunity, this was a strike for
(03:08):
community, for the things thatcommunity needs.
And I think that's why they'vebeen really successful in this
last few years.
There are very few people, Imean in the Trump era, there's
very few institutions that areemitting a constant message of
(03:33):
collective responsibility orwe're building the community or
we're building hope.
You see every single day onTrump's Twitter feed, fear and
division and hate andresentment.
And so something that looks tothis is we were pretty
intentional about saying we aredoing this for community, we are
(03:55):
doing this for our children, weare doing this for a better
life.
And that's why I think they'dbeen really successful.
Alex Colvin (04:05):
So that connects to something that has also been a
surprise and that's in the Redfor Ed strikes where we saw West
Virginia, Oklahoma, Arizona,these massive walkouts by huge
numbers of teachers in stateswhere they don't have the labor
law protections, they don't havesome of the same institutional
(04:29):
supports that they do in otherstates.
And yet we saw this massive waveof action by the teachers
themselves.
It seems really different fromthe days of the a 3% plus COLA
strike to just narrowly benefitthe workers in a traditional
Barney unit.
Randi Weingarten (04:49):
For those who have not been in our space it's
surprising, but for the lastdecade or so, we have actually
been very focused on aninvestment strategy and we've
(05:10):
been pretty focused on how webuild, how we engage our
members, but how we also buildcommunity relationships.
So when I say that thosestrikes.
So when I, when I talk about, you know, Chicago or LA, West
(05:30):
Virginia, Oklahoma, you know, weare not the dominant player in
Arizona, but Oklahoma, WestVirginia, LA, Chicago, the re's
a lot more that is similarbetween West Virginia and LA.
than that is different.
Rural poverty may look differentthan urban poverty, but root cau
(05:52):
ses ar e pretty similar.
So what you saw in terms of WestVirginia is that had ju st had
enough.
What started happening is fromthe women's marches to the fight
against Trump on the issue ofACA.
It starts developing this muscleof activism.
(06:15):
And then that and social mediacreated the kind of impetus,
created the match to say, no, wecan do this.
We are sick and tired of beingsick and tired and, and we can
get together and do this andmobilize.
So our job in places like WestVirginia and Oklahoma, were to
help provide the infrastructureand to help be the support
(06:40):
network for these incrediblycourageous folks who were
willing to take the risk.
And I think that, you know, whenand and so what we try to do.
So, so what I'm saying to you isthat the same kind of very
intentional strategies andtactics that some of us started
(07:04):
learning way back when whendinosaurs roamed at the ILR
School.
But you know, the same kind ofstrategy, tactics and strategies
you learn, you make real.
But it has to be people that aremaking it real.
Like if only five people showedup in Charleston, West Virginia
won't be right, it wouldn'twork.
But what happened was once yousaw a willingness to mobilize,
(07:29):
which teachers had allthroughout West Virginia, when
they got really pissed that theyweren't getting, you know,
their, their salaries were, youknow, what, 46 47, 48th in the
nation.
And then on top of that they gotyet another healthcare hike.
(07:49):
On top of having to pay theirstudent loans.
On top of, you know, constantlydoing more with less because
West Virginia is one of thecapitals of opioid addiction and
where so many of our kids comein with so much trauma.
There's a breaking point.
And there was a snow storm whereschools were close statewide and
(08:10):
people started talking to eachother on Facebook and then all
of a sudden people said,"wait asecond, you agree with me, you
agree with me, you agree withme?
" And so that little ditty thatwe have in labor that you can
get things done together that isimpossible to do alone, that
kind of unison, that kind ofsolidarity.
The match of mobilizationcombined with the strategy of
(08:34):
solidarity and organizing led toa pretty successful strike in
West Virginia.
And what then happened is it wascontagious.
I shouldn't actually say strike.
A pretty successful withdrawalof labor because every school
district was closed in WestVirginia, so it wasn't a strike
(08:55):
because they just closedeverything.
In some ways, what West Virginiashowed us is a modern day
version of sectorial bargainingbecause we in, you know, in
non-labor parlance we talk aboutit as political because all the
rights and responsibilities inschooling get done at the state
(09:18):
Capitol through state law.
But what it really was, if youthink about it was sectoral
bargaining because all theentire sector was together
bargaining with the governorabout what it should look like.
Alex Colvin (09:33):
Yeah, well that connects to something that's
also been a surprise to me andthat's looking at the labor
platforms at the democraticpresidential candidates, broader
policy platforms this year.
What seems really different fromthe past is the extent and depth
of them.
You mentioned sectoralbargaining.
I did not expect 2020 that wewere going to see this degree of
(09:57):
proposals for sectoralbargaining.
Where, where's your read onwhat's going on there in the
presidential candidatesplatforms.
Do you think this is a, this isgoing to be something that is
going to be long lasting and weget to see really fundamental
labor law change now.
Randi Weingarten (10:17):
I'm pleased about it, but you never know
when you get to a tipping point.
But if you actually, and thereason I want to start with none
of it surprises me, is that whenyou've been in the trenches, as
long as I've been in thetrenches, you know, we have
tried to develop a muscle ofactivism, rooted in values and
(10:40):
rooted in so rooted in values toactivism, to organizing and
rooted in community building.
And the union, our union being,you know, a way in which people,
a vehicle in which people seetheir aspirations net as opposed
(11:02):
to a transaction.
So, you know, we, we think aboutbuilding community within the
union and outside of the unionand, but, but to do this, it
takes power, but community powerand power to change to make a
(11:24):
better life, not just for themembers of the bargaining unit,
but for the community itself.
And so this has been somethingthat we've been at as the AFT
for 10 years or so.
And, and, and when I say thatyou get to a tipping point at
(11:44):
one point or another, when yousee a, we have 3,500 locals,
when you actually see people ona local level say,"okay, what
are the issues that are incommon between us and community?
How are we going to build astronger relationship?
How are we going to worktogether on this?" What, what
starts happening is that inplaces like West Virginia,
(12:07):
people realize they can't justdo it in McDowell County, West
Virginia, they can't just do itin another small Mingo County
that, that they need to have thepower on this, the state level.
So what happened was that theyjust, we started intuiting it.
We had a big conference on sectoral bargaining.
Pramila Jayapal came and did a,one of the, you know, head of
(12:31):
the progressive caucus of th e Congress and did one of the
keynotes and so infused withinthe kind of mainstream labor di
alogue a n d a ggressivecongressional dialogue where a
lot of the, you know,presidential candidates were
listening or like how do youcreate power?
The same thing's true, not juston sectorial bargaining, but on
(12:54):
really approaching the gigeconomy and contingent work.
I mean, one could actually, youcan watch what the national
labor relations board has doneunder Trump and, and what
corporations have done.
This kind of slow encroachmentand limitation of what
constitutes employment versuswhat is independent contracting.
And we can diagnose the problema lot and, and you and, and your
(13:20):
colleagues are remarkable in theresearch you do and in
diagnosing this, but those of uswho were kind of s ort o f in
the trenches t rying t o figureout what to do about it.
Alex Colvin (13:31):
That's a great point about the gig economy.
You know, we think about a lotof discussion on Uber, Lyft, the
ride share companies and thishuge battle they're putting up
against AB-5 in California tokeep their independent
contractor model and not haveemployment laws apply to them.
Randi Weingarten (13:48):
Wasn't it pretty amazing that we got AB 5
passed in California?
Alex Colvin (13:54):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
And I think it was thatinteresting combination of a
liberal Supreme Court ofCalifornia that took the step
and then I think put it on thetable that the politicians
realized that this reallymatters.
And there's a huge number ofpeople now who are touched by
this.
I think in my own industry,higher education, we get adjunct
(14:17):
instructors, there's these hugebattles over grad student
organizing, yo u k n ow, acrossthe whole country.
But this is, this is an issuethat goes so far beyond the
ride-share companies, eventhough those are really
important.
Right.
This is, this is the gigeconomization of the whole
country.
Randi Weingarten (14:36):
Right, exactly.
I mean, we have, you know, weare now the, I guess we've been
for awhile, the largest highered union, but of our 230,000
higher ed members, 80,000 areadjuncts.
And you know, we, when, when,graduate worker organizing
(14:58):
ripened again, our door wasknocked on by a whole bunch of
workers in a whole bunch ofuniversities, private and
public.
But what's interesting is thatwhether it's adjuncts or whether
it's graduate workers or thefact that most of the work at
the university level is done bycontingent labor now, not by
(15:22):
tenured professors.
It's, it is the same.
The work may be different, butit's the same kind of
precariousness that a Lyftdriver has an Uber driver has
that, you know, that, that, thatyou don't know how you're going
to put together a living wage, astable living wage for your
(15:43):
family.
It's the same as when a fastfood worker or retail worker
doesn't know what his or herhours are going to be week to
week.
So, well, part of what we'vetried to do is how do we find
ways to bring workers togetherenough so that they have clout,
(16:06):
not just at the bargainingtable, whether that's in state
law or you know, at, at atraditional bargaining table,
but how do we also have clout inelections so that you get a
Gavin Newsome who was willing toactually sign a law like this,
like AB-5.
How do you get a Congress, inthe United States of America and
(16:27):
a president who's going to dothe PRO Act as opposed to
promising EFCA and then walkingaway from it.
And so this is, you know, it's areally interesting time now b
ecause of all the things thatyou're expressing surprise
about.
You see that activism on theground, how do you connect the k
ind o f that activism, which isabsolutely important with and
(16:52):
marry it with elections so thatyou have both short term and l
ong t erm results.
Alex Colvin (16:58):
One of the longterm consequences is that who wins
the elections determines who'spicking who's on our courts.
And one of the things thatlabor's run into as a headwind
at the federal level is a moreconservative judiciary,
certainly the conservativemajority in the Supreme Court.
Really the, the signature labordecision for them in recent
(17:20):
years is the Janus Case wherethey decided that there was a
constitutionalization of the, you k now, what they're calling,
the right to work, but inpractice is the right, t he
right to be a free rid er on aunion contract.
What has, what has Janus meantto, to AFT and what, what do you
see the effects and, an d, andhow do you respond to that?
Randi Weingarten (17:43):
So, first o f a ll, the case was so m iss
decided that it's very hard tosay anything positive.
And so this is g oing t o soundcompletely c ognitively, but, yo
u k n ow, but what has happenedhere is that our union culture
(18:11):
has been fundamentallytransformed for the better.
Wh at w e saw was a comingtogether of rank and file
membership and leadership at thelocal, state and national levels
where people, were not simplywilling to s tick with the union
(18:34):
and, and, and, and to not letthe Koch brothers and the DeVos
family and others basically usethis device to defund and
destabilize, you know, anddestroy our unions.
It was not just a" we'll showthem," f ight back.
(18:56):
What ultimately happened and, and both asked me, and we did
this from the Fri edrich's ca seyears before and I will never
forget having Lee Saunders atone of our Executive Council
meetings that president hav e asked me and whe re, y ou know, t
w o years before Janus or yearbefore Janus, an d where we
(19:20):
really talked about, and he wasas honest with our council as he
had been with his own about whatthe existential threat was.
And we created a path over forthe three years before Janus of
engagement and changing ourpractice from being from
(19:41):
business unionism, from thinkingabout, members really disrupting
that theology of the union asinsurance company, they union as
contract to, you know, the unionas you pay dues and in exchange
you get a contract and wenegotiate your salaries and what
(20:04):
not to the union has communityand to how do you build that
engagement and, and, and, andhave the kind of speaking with
each other and, and membersfeeling engaged and empowered
and energized.
And, and we saw the day beforethe Janus decision, over 500,000
(20:29):
of our members, as an act ofdefiance, sign new membership
cards in the run up to Janus.
So we knew we would lose theagency fee payers, you know,
which were about 85,000 of our1.72 members or 1.73 members at
(20:50):
the time.
We knew that we would lose them,but we lost virtually no one
else.
The real issue is making surethat we're developing that
community with new people.
And that new people are notjoining at the same rate, in all
places as we used to have.
(21:12):
And that's the real issue, butthat's changing as well too.
S o, and the last thing I'll sayis this, we also really believe
that we should representeveryone that we in solidarity a
unit as a unit.
Everyone.
We don't want management to pickand choose and pit people
against each other.
(21:32):
And what we're seeing more andmore is that people are, you
know, people who in, in, instrong unions with strong
programs and strong activism, the s t rong c ommunity building,
you know, you have really,really solid, stronger locals
right now, more vibrant localsdoing many, many more things
(21:53):
then we had three, four and fiveyears ag o.
Alex Colvin (21:56):
Thanks very much for all your comments and I
really appreciate theopportunity to talk to you.
Randi Weingarten (22:00):
Thanks Alex.
Diane Burton (22:00):
Thank you for listening to"Work." Subscribe to
our podcast atwork.ilr.cornell.edu or on
iTunes.
In our next episode, Dean Colvinspeaks with Liz Shuler,
secretary/treasurer of theAFL-CIO.
(22:24):
Do you have a recommendation fora guest or a topic to be
discussed on a future episode?
Just click on the link in theshow notes of this episode and
leave your suggestions.
And thanks again for listening.
Work is all around us.
It defines us.
The future of work impactsnearly every person on our
planet and the ILR School atCornell University is
influencing policy and practiceon the most pressing issues
facing employees and employers.
In the coming months.
our series,"Work! Exploring thefuture of work, labor and
(00:22):
employment," will featureseveral prominent leaders in the
labor movement.
In this episode, AmericanFederation of Teachers Union
President Randi Weingarten talkswith Dean Colvin.
Alex Colvin (00:36):
So to kick things off, I wanted to talk about
something that took me bysurprise.
I've been studying laborrelations for awhile and I've
been watching the slow declineof the strike as a weapon really
since the 70s and 80s and thoseof us who write about collective
bargaining had been buildingthat into our analysis saying,
look, we're not seeing theresults out of collective
(00:58):
bargaining that you'd hopebecause the strike weapons
gotten weaker and weaker.
But there's been something of aturnaround.
And when I was thinking aboutwhen the turnaround started
happening, one of the big eventswas the 2012 Chicago teachers'
strike that was a real signaturestrike in terms of succeeding as
a strike and suggesting thatthere's a power still in the
(01:22):
strike.
We've seen more recently strikesin a number of settings.
The GM strike last year, thebiggest one since the seventies.
But education has been a realhotbed of strike activity.
The Chicago teachers strikinggain, the LA teachers' strike.
It's been interesting to see thesuccess of those strikes.
Why do you think that we've seenthis return of the strike as a
(01:46):
weapon in your sector ineducation?
Why have they been successfulthere and what can we take away
from that?
Randi Weingarten (01:52):
So I think that the strike in education
actually means somethingdifferent today then it did
30-40 years ago in education inthat there's been an
understanding that we have to beintentional about community and
(02:19):
that community is not only ournew density but our new
responsibility.
So what you've seen in strikesfrom the Chicago teacher strike
in'12 but I would actually sayboth the teacher strikes and the
private sector strikes in'17,'18and'19 was a very intentional
(02:44):
joining of the issues that theworkers were raising with issues
that community needed.
Teachers want what children needwas a signature focus for us in
so many of these.
This was not a strike againstcommunity, this was a strike for
(03:08):
community, for the things thatcommunity needs.
And I think that's why they'vebeen really successful in this
last few years.
There are very few people, Imean in the Trump era, there's
very few institutions that areemitting a constant message of
(03:33):
collective responsibility orwe're building the community or
we're building hope.
You see every single day onTrump's Twitter feed, fear and
division and hate andresentment.
And so something that looks tothis is we were pretty
intentional about saying we aredoing this for community, we are
(03:55):
doing this for our children, weare doing this for a better
life.
And that's why I think they'dbeen really successful.
Alex Colvin (04:05):
So that connects to something that has also been a
surprise and that's in the Redfor Ed strikes where we saw West
Virginia, Oklahoma, Arizona,these massive walkouts by huge
numbers of teachers in stateswhere they don't have the labor
law protections, they don't havesome of the same institutional
(04:29):
supports that they do in otherstates.
And yet we saw this massive waveof action by the teachers
themselves.
It seems really different fromthe days of the a 3% plus COLA
strike to just narrowly benefitthe workers in a traditional
Barney unit.
Randi Weingarten (04:49):
For those who have not been in our space it's
surprising, but for the lastdecade or so, we have actually
been very focused on aninvestment strategy and we've
(05:10):
been pretty focused on how webuild, how we engage our
members, but how we also buildcommunity relationships.
So when I say that thosestrikes.
So when I, when I talk about, you know, Chicago or LA, West
(05:30):
Virginia, Oklahoma, you know, weare not the dominant player in
Arizona, but Oklahoma, WestVirginia, LA, Chicago, the re's
a lot more that is similarbetween West Virginia and LA.
than that is different.
Rural poverty may look differentthan urban poverty, but root cau
(05:52):
ses ar e pretty similar.
So what you saw in terms of WestVirginia is that had ju st had
enough.
What started happening is fromthe women's marches to the fight
against Trump on the issue ofACA.
It starts developing this muscleof activism.
(06:15):
And then that and social mediacreated the kind of impetus,
created the match to say, no, wecan do this.
We are sick and tired of beingsick and tired and, and we can
get together and do this andmobilize.
So our job in places like WestVirginia and Oklahoma, were to
help provide the infrastructureand to help be the support
(06:40):
network for these incrediblycourageous folks who were
willing to take the risk.
And I think that, you know, whenand and so what we try to do.
So, so what I'm saying to you isthat the same kind of very
intentional strategies andtactics that some of us started
(07:04):
learning way back when whendinosaurs roamed at the ILR
School.
But you know, the same kind ofstrategy, tactics and strategies
you learn, you make real.
But it has to be people that aremaking it real.
Like if only five people showedup in Charleston, West Virginia
won't be right, it wouldn'twork.
But what happened was once yousaw a willingness to mobilize,
(07:29):
which teachers had allthroughout West Virginia, when
they got really pissed that theyweren't getting, you know,
their, their salaries were, youknow, what, 46 47, 48th in the
nation.
And then on top of that they gotyet another healthcare hike.
(07:49):
On top of having to pay theirstudent loans.
On top of, you know, constantlydoing more with less because
West Virginia is one of thecapitals of opioid addiction and
where so many of our kids comein with so much trauma.
There's a breaking point.
And there was a snow storm whereschools were close statewide and
(08:10):
people started talking to eachother on Facebook and then all
of a sudden people said,"wait asecond, you agree with me, you
agree with me, you agree withme?
" And so that little ditty thatwe have in labor that you can
get things done together that isimpossible to do alone, that
kind of unison, that kind ofsolidarity.
The match of mobilizationcombined with the strategy of
(08:34):
solidarity and organizing led toa pretty successful strike in
West Virginia.
And what then happened is it wascontagious.
I shouldn't actually say strike.
A pretty successful withdrawalof labor because every school
district was closed in WestVirginia, so it wasn't a strike
(08:55):
because they just closedeverything.
In some ways, what West Virginiashowed us is a modern day
version of sectorial bargainingbecause we in, you know, in
non-labor parlance we talk aboutit as political because all the
rights and responsibilities inschooling get done at the state
(09:18):
Capitol through state law.
But what it really was, if youthink about it was sectoral
bargaining because all theentire sector was together
bargaining with the governorabout what it should look like.
Alex Colvin (09:33):
Yeah, well that connects to something that's
also been a surprise to me andthat's looking at the labor
platforms at the democraticpresidential candidates, broader
policy platforms this year.
What seems really different fromthe past is the extent and depth
of them.
You mentioned sectoralbargaining.
I did not expect 2020 that wewere going to see this degree of
(09:57):
proposals for sectoralbargaining.
Where, where's your read onwhat's going on there in the
presidential candidatesplatforms.
Do you think this is a, this isgoing to be something that is
going to be long lasting and weget to see really fundamental
labor law change now.
Randi Weingarten (10:17):
I'm pleased about it, but you never know
when you get to a tipping point.
But if you actually, and thereason I want to start with none
of it surprises me, is that whenyou've been in the trenches, as
long as I've been in thetrenches, you know, we have
tried to develop a muscle ofactivism, rooted in values and
(10:40):
rooted in so rooted in values toactivism, to organizing and
rooted in community building.
And the union, our union being,you know, a way in which people,
a vehicle in which people seetheir aspirations net as opposed
(11:02):
to a transaction.
So, you know, we, we think aboutbuilding community within the
union and outside of the unionand, but, but to do this, it
takes power, but community powerand power to change to make a
(11:24):
better life, not just for themembers of the bargaining unit,
but for the community itself.
And so this has been somethingthat we've been at as the AFT
for 10 years or so.
And, and, and when I say thatyou get to a tipping point at
(11:44):
one point or another, when yousee a, we have 3,500 locals,
when you actually see people ona local level say,"okay, what
are the issues that are incommon between us and community?
How are we going to build astronger relationship?
How are we going to worktogether on this?" What, what
starts happening is that inplaces like West Virginia,
(12:07):
people realize they can't justdo it in McDowell County, West
Virginia, they can't just do itin another small Mingo County
that, that they need to have thepower on this, the state level.
So what happened was that theyjust, we started intuiting it.
We had a big conference on sectoral bargaining.
Pramila Jayapal came and did a,one of the, you know, head of
(12:31):
the progressive caucus of th e Congress and did one of the
keynotes and so infused withinthe kind of mainstream labor di
alogue a n d a ggressivecongressional dialogue where a
lot of the, you know,presidential candidates were
listening or like how do youcreate power?
The same thing's true, not juston sectorial bargaining, but on
(12:54):
really approaching the gigeconomy and contingent work.
I mean, one could actually, youcan watch what the national
labor relations board has doneunder Trump and, and what
corporations have done.
This kind of slow encroachmentand limitation of what
constitutes employment versuswhat is independent contracting.
And we can diagnose the problema lot and, and you and, and your
(13:20):
colleagues are remarkable in theresearch you do and in
diagnosing this, but those of uswho were kind of s ort o f in
the trenches t rying t o figureout what to do about it.
Alex Colvin (13:31):
That's a great point about the gig economy.
You know, we think about a lotof discussion on Uber, Lyft, the
ride share companies and thishuge battle they're putting up
against AB-5 in California tokeep their independent
contractor model and not haveemployment laws apply to them.
Randi Weingarten (13:48):
Wasn't it pretty amazing that we got AB 5
passed in California?
Alex Colvin (13:54):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
And I think it was thatinteresting combination of a
liberal Supreme Court ofCalifornia that took the step
and then I think put it on thetable that the politicians
realized that this reallymatters.
And there's a huge number ofpeople now who are touched by
this.
I think in my own industry,higher education, we get adjunct
(14:17):
instructors, there's these hugebattles over grad student
organizing, yo u k n ow, acrossthe whole country.
But this is, this is an issuethat goes so far beyond the
ride-share companies, eventhough those are really
important.
Right.
This is, this is the gigeconomization of the whole
country.
Randi Weingarten (14:36):
Right, exactly.
I mean, we have, you know, weare now the, I guess we've been
for awhile, the largest highered union, but of our 230,000
higher ed members, 80,000 areadjuncts.
And you know, we, when, when,graduate worker organizing
(14:58):
ripened again, our door wasknocked on by a whole bunch of
workers in a whole bunch ofuniversities, private and
public.
But what's interesting is thatwhether it's adjuncts or whether
it's graduate workers or thefact that most of the work at
the university level is done bycontingent labor now, not by
(15:22):
tenured professors.
It's, it is the same.
The work may be different, butit's the same kind of
precariousness that a Lyftdriver has an Uber driver has
that, you know, that, that, thatyou don't know how you're going
to put together a living wage, astable living wage for your
(15:43):
family.
It's the same as when a fastfood worker or retail worker
doesn't know what his or herhours are going to be week to
week.
So, well, part of what we'vetried to do is how do we find
ways to bring workers togetherenough so that they have clout,
(16:06):
not just at the bargainingtable, whether that's in state
law or you know, at, at atraditional bargaining table,
but how do we also have clout inelections so that you get a
Gavin Newsome who was willing toactually sign a law like this,
like AB-5.
How do you get a Congress, inthe United States of America and
(16:27):
a president who's going to dothe PRO Act as opposed to
promising EFCA and then walkingaway from it.
And so this is, you know, it's areally interesting time now b
ecause of all the things thatyou're expressing surprise
about.
You see that activism on theground, how do you connect the k
ind o f that activism, which isabsolutely important with and
(16:52):
marry it with elections so thatyou have both short term and l
ong t erm results.
Alex Colvin (16:58):
One of the longterm consequences is that who wins
the elections determines who'spicking who's on our courts.
And one of the things thatlabor's run into as a headwind
at the federal level is a moreconservative judiciary,
certainly the conservativemajority in the Supreme Court.
Really the, the signature labordecision for them in recent
(17:20):
years is the Janus Case wherethey decided that there was a
constitutionalization of the, you k now, what they're calling,
the right to work, but inpractice is the right, t he
right to be a free rid er on aunion contract.
What has, what has Janus meantto, to AFT and what, what do you
see the effects and, an d, andhow do you respond to that?
Randi Weingarten (17:43):
So, first o f a ll, the case was so m iss
decided that it's very hard tosay anything positive.
And so this is g oing t o soundcompletely c ognitively, but, yo
u k n ow, but what has happenedhere is that our union culture
(18:11):
has been fundamentallytransformed for the better.
Wh at w e saw was a comingtogether of rank and file
membership and leadership at thelocal, state and national levels
where people, were not simplywilling to s tick with the union
(18:34):
and, and, and, and to not letthe Koch brothers and the DeVos
family and others basically usethis device to defund and
destabilize, you know, anddestroy our unions.
It was not just a" we'll showthem," f ight back.
(18:56):
What ultimately happened and, and both asked me, and we did
this from the Fri edrich's ca seyears before and I will never
forget having Lee Saunders atone of our Executive Council
meetings that president hav e asked me and whe re, y ou know, t
w o years before Janus or yearbefore Janus, an d where we
(19:20):
really talked about, and he wasas honest with our council as he
had been with his own about whatthe existential threat was.
And we created a path over forthe three years before Janus of
engagement and changing ourpractice from being from
(19:41):
business unionism, from thinkingabout, members really disrupting
that theology of the union asinsurance company, they union as
contract to, you know, the unionas you pay dues and in exchange
you get a contract and wenegotiate your salaries and what
(20:04):
not to the union has communityand to how do you build that
engagement and, and, and, andhave the kind of speaking with
each other and, and membersfeeling engaged and empowered
and energized.
And, and we saw the day beforethe Janus decision, over 500,000
(20:29):
of our members, as an act ofdefiance, sign new membership
cards in the run up to Janus.
So we knew we would lose theagency fee payers, you know,
which were about 85,000 of our1.72 members or 1.73 members at
(20:50):
the time.
We knew that we would lose them,but we lost virtually no one
else.
The real issue is making surethat we're developing that
community with new people.
And that new people are notjoining at the same rate, in all
places as we used to have.
(21:12):
And that's the real issue, butthat's changing as well too.
S o, and the last thing I'll sayis this, we also really believe
that we should representeveryone that we in solidarity a
unit as a unit.
Everyone.
We don't want management to pickand choose and pit people
against each other.
(21:32):
And what we're seeing more andmore is that people are, you
know, people who in, in, instrong unions with strong
programs and strong activism, the s t rong c ommunity building,
you know, you have really,really solid, stronger locals
right now, more vibrant localsdoing many, many more things
(21:53):
then we had three, four and fiveyears ag o.
Alex Colvin (21:56):
Thanks very much for all your comments and I
really appreciate theopportunity to talk to you.
Randi Weingarten (22:00):
Thanks Alex.
Diane Burton (22:00):
Thank you for listening to"Work." Subscribe to
our podcast atwork.ilr.cornell.edu or on
iTunes.
In our next episode, Dean Colvinspeaks with Liz Shuler,
secretary/treasurer of theAFL-CIO.
(22:24):
Do you have a recommendation fora guest or a topic to be
discussed on a future episode?
Just click on the link in theshow notes of this episode and
leave your suggestions.
And thanks again for listening.
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