January 30, 2020 • 17 mins
Best-selling author Jon Gordon '93 and Dean Alex Colvin discuss the changing culture of today’s workplace. The duo examines the characteristics common in great leaders, the traits shared by successful teams, and how individuals can influence co-workers.
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Diane Burton (00:00):
Work is all around us.
It defines us and the future ofwork impacts nearly every person
on our planet.
The ILR school at CornellUniversity is at the center of
work, labor and employment,influencing policy and practice
on the most pressing issuesfacing employees and employers.
ILR school Dean Alex Colvin isthe host of our series"Work!"
(00:24):
Exploring the future of work,labor and employment," featuring
discussion with experts on keyworld of work topics.
In this episode, motivationalspeaker and writer Jon Gordon
talks with Dean Colvin aboutworkplace leadership.
Dean Colvin (00:39):
So one of the things that I want to start off
talking about is somethingthat's been a really interesting
change going on in theworkplace.
When we looked at places like,Google, we're starting to see a
lot of workers expressing theirvoice in the, in the workplace.
I was just down there last year,at an event that was all
organized by the engineers abouta big policy issue at the
(01:02):
company.
You know, and it's, it's areally interesting thing we see
going on.
And it kind of begs thisquestion of, leadership by
people who are just, you know,regular people at work rather
than a sort of major leadershiprole.
And one of the questions I waswondering about is what, what
makes it possible going forwardfor people to rise up to kind of
leadership roles out of kind ofregular rank and file employee
(01:25):
kind of positions and employee,you know, their own leadership
and making change in theworkplace?
Jon Gordon (01:30):
Well, I always say that even if you influence one
person, you are a leader.
So when you are coming to workevery day and you're surrounded
by people, you're leading thepeople around you.
So always start with leadingthose in front of you.
Have an influence on them.
I call it love, serve, and careare the three greatest success
(01:50):
principles of all.
The three greatest leadershipprinciple.
If you love people and you areable to serve them in some
capacity, serve them at workthat we're working on a project.
"Hey, I want to work with you onthis.
I want to help you with this."You show that you care.
Then you will stand out amongstthe people who don't care.
And so just by influencing thepeople around you, then you
start to rise up.
(02:11):
So I wrote a book called thePower of Positive Leadership.
And this is what makes greatleaders great.
And even though it's a book forleaders with titles, even if you
don't have a title, you canemploy this framework and really
influence those around you andbe and become a great leader.
Dean Colvin (02:29):
Yeah.
That is one of the interestingthings I noticed about your
books is that you often write,even though you're writing in
that in the genre that, youknow, they're leadership books,
you're actually talking a lot topeople who aren't in those kind
of formal leadership titles.
You know, in stories about thosekinds of peoples, which seems a
really different kind ofperspective on leadership.
Jon Gordon (02:47):
Exactly.
Because, you know, it reallyresonates with people at all
levels.
And when I first started mycareer, I was the guy who was
brought in to speak to thecompany, not leadership.
So as I would speak to thecompany, I would impact the
people at all levels, not reallyat the highest level.
Only in the last probably fiveyears did my work now reach that
(03:07):
the people at the highest level.
So now you'll have an AlanMulally reading my book and
reaching out saying, okay, Iloved your book.
The power of Positive Leadershipand The Power of a Positive
Team.
I heard from Evan Spiegel, the,you know, the founder of
Snapchat, he brought me i ntowork with his leadership team,
you know, to help them deal withall o f the adversity they were
facing from Instagram a nd, and,and challenges, you know, from
(03:28):
competition and so forth.
There was a lot of negativity inthe news.
Well guess what?
They're now weathering the stormand they're doing great work as,
as a leadership team.
And so it took a while for thetop leaders to get this, but now
they're realizing this is theway to lead.
Like you have to lead withoptimism.
You have to create a vision.
You have to build uprelationships with the people
(03:50):
around you.
The old style of,"Hey, just doit because I said so" no longer
works.
You just said it earlier.
There's n ow a voice amongst theemployees.
There's a voice amongst thepeople at all levels and you
have to engage them.
Now you have to get them to be apart of the process, not make
them feel like they're separatefrom the process.
Dean Colvin (04:10):
Is that something that's hard for, for leaders in
that kind of traditional role?
I mean, we do a lot of educationhere at ILR where we're, where
we're, you know, educating, youknow, HR, VPs, about dealing
with their workforce.
You know, you're sort ofdescribing kind of a different
kind of paradigm of how youthink about how you relate to
the subordinates, the regularpeople in your organization.
(04:30):
Do you find that people havetrouble making that adjustment
or what helps them make thatadjustment?
Jon Gordon (04:35):
I think more and more are making the adjustment
is what I should say because I'm, I'm seeing a lot of leaders
move in this direction.
The millennials and now theyounger generation no longer
will work with a company or fora company that doesn't have a
mission.
They want a company that has apurpose.
No longer will, they will workwith someone who doesn't treat
them like an individual or ahuman being.
(04:58):
If you don't care about them,guess what?
They're outta here.
And so today's leader has to bea positive leader where they
engage the people that they areleading.
They have to develop arelationship with those people.
And so it's not just a nice wayto lead, it's the way to lead to
get greater results.
So what I believe is what I'vebeen teaching all these years
(05:18):
and what Ken Blanchard, you knowour, our friend from Cornell as
well, and one of my amazingmentors is, has been teaching
for years.
We're just seeing that realityis now caught up to what we've
always believed to be true.
That if you really want to getresults, you have to lead people
through relationships.
And if you don't know someone,how can you lead them?
If you don't know what motivatesthem, how can you motivate them?
(05:41):
So it's really about more of apersonal level.
I'm a big believer in eachleader connecting with the
people that they lead on a oneon one level, making time for
five to 10 minute meetings on anongoing basis.
This is not, you know, quarterlyreports or, or annual reviews.
Hey I'm just going to meet withyou for a review.
No! You have to meet beforereview is even necessary.
(06:03):
Like you should be gettingtogether with the people that
you lead and getting to knowthem, have an ongoing
conversation about their goals,their vision, their progress,
what skills they want toactually develop and how you can
help them develop them.
And how what they can do,contributes to the bigger vision
of what you're doing as anorganization.
And if you do that, you'd haveso much more engagement and so
(06:25):
much more success.
Dean Colvin (06:26):
Yeah.
And it sounds like, you know,what you're talking about, it's
really kind of a necessity,right?
That if we want to be successful, you know, as leaders in the
future, this is what we're gonnaneed to deal with, right?
It's a changing workforce, achanging realities.
You know, new generations comeup and they, they have
expectations.
We gotta we gotta adapt to that.
Jon Gordon (06:45):
We do.
And I've also just so peopleknow, I work with a lot of
sports teams and so I see thisdynamic taking place in teams,
which I love teams in sportscause it's a very interesting
microcosm of what's happening atthe cultural level and at
organizational levels frombusinesses.
So here I am, I go to thesefortune 500 companies, but then
(07:05):
I'm also working with Clemsonfootball.
I'm working with the LA Rams,the Indiana Pacers, the Miami
Heat, the Chargers, theCleveland Browns.
I actually spoke to this year,which was, which was a lot of
fun to actually interact withthem and see their culture.
And then you see it play out inthe course of the year, right?
So I love seeing the culture,but today's player, they want a
(07:26):
relationship with their coach.
They want to know that the coachcares about them.
And we see the guy in the mediawho is causing a lot of
problems.
But then I see the great coachwho I know and I see how that
coach engages that player anddevelops a relationship with
them.
And that player that's usually aproblem on other teams is no
longer a problem on this team.
So I could see real leadershiphow it takes place firsthand and
(07:49):
that and that in that scenario.
Dean Colvin (07:51):
Yeah, sports are fascinating because you have
this situation where to succeedyou have to succeed as a team.
So there are those lessons thatyou learn from sports about
functioning as a team and beingsuccessful.
One thing I think we share incommon is a, is a Cornell
sports.
I'm, I'm a former fencer.
I'm actually currently theCornell fencing t eams a dvisor.
(08:12):
And I know you played lacrossehere at Cornell.
And you've written about thatprogram you wrote about in your
book The Hard Hat.
And that book really talks a lotdirectly about lessons about how
to be a great teammate.
How do you see those lessonsbeing adapted to the workplace?
Jon Gordon (08:28):
It's really great because a lot of companies have
used this book, The Hard Hat fortheir company.
All the proceeds go to The MarioSt George Boiardi Foundation.
And the book is about GeorgeBoiardi, the Cornell lacrosse
player who played 11 years afterI did and how in 2004, he was
hit in the chest with a ball anddied on the field.
(08:49):
But that team would go on tocarry on his legacy.
They would go o n t o play likehe did.
They would go on to be the kindof teammate that he was.
They wanted t o honor him andthe kind of person he was, they
embodied his character.
And next thing you know, Cornellbecomes a powerhouse lacrosse
program again because they allbecame great teammates,
selfless, loyal, h ardworking.
(09:11):
And for businesses andorganizations, it's about how
can we come together as a team,one team to accomplish a goal.
No one creates success alone.
We all need a team to besuccessful.
It's not just sports.
Every great accomplishment wasdone by a team.
And so I studied this in mybook, The Power of Positive
Team, where I discuss what makesgreat teams great.
(09:33):
And I looked at all the greatteams that have accomplished
amazing things.
Well, not all of them, but abunch of them.
And you see that it is thedynamic of being great
teammates, of having emotionaland psychological safety, right?
Where there's trust, wherethere's connection, where
there's then commitment knowingthat you will never have
commitment without connection.
(09:54):
It's the connection that drivesthe commitment that reads the
commitment that then leads togreat results.
So these dynamics play out.
When you become a greatteammate, you develop a great
team, you then accomplish greatthings together and it's the
leader's job to work, to build agreat team.
So my work now is all aboutdeveloping positive leaders,
helping them become betterleaders who then are able to
build strong teams.
Dean Colvin (10:10):
It's, it's really fascinating kind of idea that,
you know, we learn these, theselessons when we're in the sports
world and you know, many, manypeople d o i t in high school or
even in college if they're, ifthey're lucky enough.
(10:31):
But you know, carrying thoselessons forward to the
workplace, right?
And not treating the workplacelike, you know, we're all a
bunch of little individuals butreally is like a team.
And that being a t eammatesreally critical to showing that
kind of leadership that's g oingt o make the organization
succeed.
It's a powerful metaphor thatyou've got there.
Jon Gordon (11:00):
It really is.
You know, it's funny now I'vespoken to so many college
athletic programs over the yearsand then I'll go into businesses
to speak and I'll have peoplecome up to me and say, Hey, you
spoke to me when I was at NotreDame.
You spoke when I was on theCornell lacrosse team and you
spoke to, you know, our team,blah, blah blah.
And now I'm at this company andyou know what the same
principles apply.
It's so funny cause they seefirsthand how the same
principles apply in sports andalso in business and so on.
If you've done fencing, ifyou've done any score with any
team, even a golf team that'sconsidered individuals and
(11:23):
fencing, you're competing in theway as well.
You still are part of a team andanyone who's ever been a part of
a team is now better able to gointo a work environment and work
more effectively with that team.
Dean Colvin (11:54):
You know one of the things that I think is, is
really interesting to thinkgoing forward is, you know, this
vision you're talking about isdefinitely, you know, a more
sort of egalitarian team-basedworkplace.
But you know, I'm thinking aboutwhat does that mean then for how
we think of the future about ourcompanies, our strategies.
You know, we had this kind ofvery, you know, shareholder,
just make money kind of focus,right?
This seems like a really broadervision of the mission of
organizations and workingtogether for success in the
future.
Jon Gordon (12:07):
I believe that the future is not going to be
accomplished individually,although we are becoming more
and more individual focused.
But even through all the socialmedia, we're very individually
focused.
I see the future that it reallywill be accomplished by people
working together in teams andit's going to be where we have
more virtual teams workingtogether and they have to figure
(12:27):
out a way when they're workingvirtually across the globe, how
to work together in a virtualenvironment where you're not
always connecting person toperson.
It's probably the greatestquestion I get, the most common
question I get is how do youbecome a connected team when
you're working in a virtualenvironment?
And it really just takes moreeffort to make sure that you're
connecting using the latesttechnology to do so.
(12:50):
But now with Skype and zoom andall the, all the, all the, uh,
the tools that we have that alot of software companies have
created, those are a reallyefficient and effective tools
that create that connection.
But nothing is as effective asactually meeting in person and
developing that personalrelationship.
I don't care how much technologychanges, if we're human, it's
(13:11):
always going to be about thepersonal relationship.
Can I trust you and do you careabout me?
Dean Colvin (13:17):
Yeah.
It's interesting you talk aboutthe, the virtual teams.
You know, one of the things, Iwas, I felt really old last
year, I was at a conference andit was talking about sports and
teams and there's a wholesession on, on the E-sports
world.
You know, which, made me feeldated really quickly.
But it was pretty fascinatinghow, you know, even in that
(13:37):
e-sports world, y ou know, thesewere all like mostly college or
recent college kids.
You know, they were, they wereforming teams, you know,
competing in this e-sports worldand they w ere interacting like
teams that I was used to i nthat kind of regular physical
world of competition.
So it seems like i t's, it's,it's extending out.
Jon Gordon (13:57):
It is in all areas.
And you know, it's really a bigtopic that comes up a lot today
is collaborative leadership aswell.
I believe collaborativeleadership where the leader is
now working with their people,where he or she is working with
her team to develop a strongerteam.
Alan Mulally talked a lot aboutthis.
I've talked a lot about thiswith Sandy Barbour, who's the
(14:19):
Penn State athletic director.
It's more about, Hey, what dowe, what do we want to do?
What do we want to accomplish?
Where are we going?
Rather where in the old days itwas, this is where we're going.
Are you on my bus or not?
I wrote the Energy Bus in 2007if I could do it again, George
(14:39):
says to his team, Hey, here'sour vision.
This is where we're going.
Are you on my bus?
In today's economy and today'sworld and where we're going?
I would say, Hey, where do we togo and let's go there together.
Dean Colvin (14:53):
Are we going to see a new Energy Bus, a follow up?
Jon Gordon (14:57):
No.
No.
Because it's become in many waysa classic and a lot of people
are, and I still think it's veryeffective for that one person to
say, where do I want to go?
And I have to build a team herearound me to go there.
You know, I'm just giving alittle nuance.
But y eah, when I wrote ThePower of Positive Leadership,
that was everything I've learnedover the last 12 years working
(15:19):
with all these different leadersand teams.
So that pretty much fills all ofthe practical ideas and
practices and principles aboutwhat makes great leaders great.
And so these are really concreteideas that are being used that
you can use.
And it's not saying, Hey, useall of them, pick what works for
you and your team, get some goodideas, and then go out and start
(15:39):
implementing them and you'll seeresults.
Dean Colvin (15:41):
Yeah.
Well, uh, you've been anincredibly prolific author and I
think, I think our listenerswill be looking forward to the
next, the next offering from theJon Gordon authorship because
you've got some really fantasticideas that I think people g onna
look forward to hearing morefrom.
Jon Gordon (15:58):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you having me.
Dean Colvin (16:00):
Yeah, thanks very much for being on the podcast.
Diane Burton (16:04):
Thank you for joining us for"Work! Exploring
the future of work, labor andemployment." In our next
episode, Dean Colvin talks withRandi Weingarten, president of
the American Federation ofTeachers.
Again, thank you for listeningand learn more about ILR by
visiting us on the web atilr.cornell.edu.
Work is all around us.
It defines us and the future ofwork impacts nearly every person
on our planet.
The ILR school at CornellUniversity is at the center of
work, labor and employment,influencing policy and practice
on the most pressing issuesfacing employees and employers.
ILR school Dean Alex Colvin isthe host of our series"Work!"
(00:24):
Exploring the future of work,labor and employment," featuring
discussion with experts on keyworld of work topics.
In this episode, motivationalspeaker and writer Jon Gordon
talks with Dean Colvin aboutworkplace leadership.
Dean Colvin (00:39):
So one of the things that I want to start off
talking about is somethingthat's been a really interesting
change going on in theworkplace.
When we looked at places like,Google, we're starting to see a
lot of workers expressing theirvoice in the, in the workplace.
I was just down there last year,at an event that was all
organized by the engineers abouta big policy issue at the
(01:02):
company.
You know, and it's, it's areally interesting thing we see
going on.
And it kind of begs thisquestion of, leadership by
people who are just, you know,regular people at work rather
than a sort of major leadershiprole.
And one of the questions I waswondering about is what, what
makes it possible going forwardfor people to rise up to kind of
leadership roles out of kind ofregular rank and file employee
(01:25):
kind of positions and employee,you know, their own leadership
and making change in theworkplace?
Jon Gordon (01:30):
Well, I always say that even if you influence one
person, you are a leader.
So when you are coming to workevery day and you're surrounded
by people, you're leading thepeople around you.
So always start with leadingthose in front of you.
Have an influence on them.
I call it love, serve, and careare the three greatest success
(01:50):
principles of all.
The three greatest leadershipprinciple.
If you love people and you areable to serve them in some
capacity, serve them at workthat we're working on a project.
"Hey, I want to work with you onthis.
I want to help you with this."You show that you care.
Then you will stand out amongstthe people who don't care.
And so just by influencing thepeople around you, then you
start to rise up.
(02:11):
So I wrote a book called thePower of Positive Leadership.
And this is what makes greatleaders great.
And even though it's a book forleaders with titles, even if you
don't have a title, you canemploy this framework and really
influence those around you andbe and become a great leader.
Dean Colvin (02:29):
Yeah.
That is one of the interestingthings I noticed about your
books is that you often write,even though you're writing in
that in the genre that, youknow, they're leadership books,
you're actually talking a lot topeople who aren't in those kind
of formal leadership titles.
You know, in stories about thosekinds of peoples, which seems a
really different kind ofperspective on leadership.
Jon Gordon (02:47):
Exactly.
Because, you know, it reallyresonates with people at all
levels.
And when I first started mycareer, I was the guy who was
brought in to speak to thecompany, not leadership.
So as I would speak to thecompany, I would impact the
people at all levels, not reallyat the highest level.
Only in the last probably fiveyears did my work now reach that
(03:07):
the people at the highest level.
So now you'll have an AlanMulally reading my book and
reaching out saying, okay, Iloved your book.
The power of Positive Leadershipand The Power of a Positive
Team.
I heard from Evan Spiegel, the,you know, the founder of
Snapchat, he brought me i ntowork with his leadership team,
you know, to help them deal withall o f the adversity they were
facing from Instagram a nd, and,and challenges, you know, from
(03:28):
competition and so forth.
There was a lot of negativity inthe news.
Well guess what?
They're now weathering the stormand they're doing great work as,
as a leadership team.
And so it took a while for thetop leaders to get this, but now
they're realizing this is theway to lead.
Like you have to lead withoptimism.
You have to create a vision.
You have to build uprelationships with the people
(03:50):
around you.
The old style of,"Hey, just doit because I said so" no longer
works.
You just said it earlier.
There's n ow a voice amongst theemployees.
There's a voice amongst thepeople at all levels and you
have to engage them.
Now you have to get them to be apart of the process, not make
them feel like they're separatefrom the process.
Dean Colvin (04:10):
Is that something that's hard for, for leaders in
that kind of traditional role?
I mean, we do a lot of educationhere at ILR where we're, where
we're, you know, educating, youknow, HR, VPs, about dealing
with their workforce.
You know, you're sort ofdescribing kind of a different
kind of paradigm of how youthink about how you relate to
the subordinates, the regularpeople in your organization.
(04:30):
Do you find that people havetrouble making that adjustment
or what helps them make thatadjustment?
Jon Gordon (04:35):
I think more and more are making the adjustment
is what I should say because I'm, I'm seeing a lot of leaders
move in this direction.
The millennials and now theyounger generation no longer
will work with a company or fora company that doesn't have a
mission.
They want a company that has apurpose.
No longer will, they will workwith someone who doesn't treat
them like an individual or ahuman being.
(04:58):
If you don't care about them,guess what?
They're outta here.
And so today's leader has to bea positive leader where they
engage the people that they areleading.
They have to develop arelationship with those people.
And so it's not just a nice wayto lead, it's the way to lead to
get greater results.
So what I believe is what I'vebeen teaching all these years
(05:18):
and what Ken Blanchard, you knowour, our friend from Cornell as
well, and one of my amazingmentors is, has been teaching
for years.
We're just seeing that realityis now caught up to what we've
always believed to be true.
That if you really want to getresults, you have to lead people
through relationships.
And if you don't know someone,how can you lead them?
If you don't know what motivatesthem, how can you motivate them?
(05:41):
So it's really about more of apersonal level.
I'm a big believer in eachleader connecting with the
people that they lead on a oneon one level, making time for
five to 10 minute meetings on anongoing basis.
This is not, you know, quarterlyreports or, or annual reviews.
Hey I'm just going to meet withyou for a review.
No! You have to meet beforereview is even necessary.
(06:03):
Like you should be gettingtogether with the people that
you lead and getting to knowthem, have an ongoing
conversation about their goals,their vision, their progress,
what skills they want toactually develop and how you can
help them develop them.
And how what they can do,contributes to the bigger vision
of what you're doing as anorganization.
And if you do that, you'd haveso much more engagement and so
(06:25):
much more success.
Dean Colvin (06:26):
Yeah.
And it sounds like, you know,what you're talking about, it's
really kind of a necessity,right?
That if we want to be successful, you know, as leaders in the
future, this is what we're gonnaneed to deal with, right?
It's a changing workforce, achanging realities.
You know, new generations comeup and they, they have
expectations.
We gotta we gotta adapt to that.
Jon Gordon (06:45):
We do.
And I've also just so peopleknow, I work with a lot of
sports teams and so I see thisdynamic taking place in teams,
which I love teams in sportscause it's a very interesting
microcosm of what's happening atthe cultural level and at
organizational levels frombusinesses.
So here I am, I go to thesefortune 500 companies, but then
(07:05):
I'm also working with Clemsonfootball.
I'm working with the LA Rams,the Indiana Pacers, the Miami
Heat, the Chargers, theCleveland Browns.
I actually spoke to this year,which was, which was a lot of
fun to actually interact withthem and see their culture.
And then you see it play out inthe course of the year, right?
So I love seeing the culture,but today's player, they want a
(07:26):
relationship with their coach.
They want to know that the coachcares about them.
And we see the guy in the mediawho is causing a lot of
problems.
But then I see the great coachwho I know and I see how that
coach engages that player anddevelops a relationship with
them.
And that player that's usually aproblem on other teams is no
longer a problem on this team.
So I could see real leadershiphow it takes place firsthand and
(07:49):
that and that in that scenario.
Dean Colvin (07:51):
Yeah, sports are fascinating because you have
this situation where to succeedyou have to succeed as a team.
So there are those lessons thatyou learn from sports about
functioning as a team and beingsuccessful.
One thing I think we share incommon is a, is a Cornell
sports.
I'm, I'm a former fencer.
I'm actually currently theCornell fencing t eams a dvisor.
(08:12):
And I know you played lacrossehere at Cornell.
And you've written about thatprogram you wrote about in your
book The Hard Hat.
And that book really talks a lotdirectly about lessons about how
to be a great teammate.
How do you see those lessonsbeing adapted to the workplace?
Jon Gordon (08:28):
It's really great because a lot of companies have
used this book, The Hard Hat fortheir company.
All the proceeds go to The MarioSt George Boiardi Foundation.
And the book is about GeorgeBoiardi, the Cornell lacrosse
player who played 11 years afterI did and how in 2004, he was
hit in the chest with a ball anddied on the field.
(08:49):
But that team would go on tocarry on his legacy.
They would go o n t o play likehe did.
They would go on to be the kindof teammate that he was.
They wanted t o honor him andthe kind of person he was, they
embodied his character.
And next thing you know, Cornellbecomes a powerhouse lacrosse
program again because they allbecame great teammates,
selfless, loyal, h ardworking.
(09:11):
And for businesses andorganizations, it's about how
can we come together as a team,one team to accomplish a goal.
No one creates success alone.
We all need a team to besuccessful.
It's not just sports.
Every great accomplishment wasdone by a team.
And so I studied this in mybook, The Power of Positive
Team, where I discuss what makesgreat teams great.
(09:33):
And I looked at all the greatteams that have accomplished
amazing things.
Well, not all of them, but abunch of them.
And you see that it is thedynamic of being great
teammates, of having emotionaland psychological safety, right?
Where there's trust, wherethere's connection, where
there's then commitment knowingthat you will never have
commitment without connection.
(09:54):
It's the connection that drivesthe commitment that reads the
commitment that then leads togreat results.
So these dynamics play out.
When you become a greatteammate, you develop a great
team, you then accomplish greatthings together and it's the
leader's job to work, to build agreat team.
So my work now is all aboutdeveloping positive leaders,
helping them become betterleaders who then are able to
build strong teams.
Dean Colvin (10:10):
It's, it's really fascinating kind of idea that,
you know, we learn these, theselessons when we're in the sports
world and you know, many, manypeople d o i t in high school or
even in college if they're, ifthey're lucky enough.
(10:31):
But you know, carrying thoselessons forward to the
workplace, right?
And not treating the workplacelike, you know, we're all a
bunch of little individuals butreally is like a team.
And that being a t eammatesreally critical to showing that
kind of leadership that's g oingt o make the organization
succeed.
It's a powerful metaphor thatyou've got there.
Jon Gordon (11:00):
It really is.
You know, it's funny now I'vespoken to so many college
athletic programs over the yearsand then I'll go into businesses
to speak and I'll have peoplecome up to me and say, Hey, you
spoke to me when I was at NotreDame.
You spoke when I was on theCornell lacrosse team and you
spoke to, you know, our team,blah, blah blah.
And now I'm at this company andyou know what the same
principles apply.
It's so funny cause they seefirsthand how the same
principles apply in sports andalso in business and so on.
If you've done fencing, ifyou've done any score with any
team, even a golf team that'sconsidered individuals and
(11:23):
fencing, you're competing in theway as well.
You still are part of a team andanyone who's ever been a part of
a team is now better able to gointo a work environment and work
more effectively with that team.
Dean Colvin (11:54):
You know one of the things that I think is, is
really interesting to thinkgoing forward is, you know, this
vision you're talking about isdefinitely, you know, a more
sort of egalitarian team-basedworkplace.
But you know, I'm thinking aboutwhat does that mean then for how
we think of the future about ourcompanies, our strategies.
You know, we had this kind ofvery, you know, shareholder,
just make money kind of focus,right?
This seems like a really broadervision of the mission of
organizations and workingtogether for success in the
future.
Jon Gordon (12:07):
I believe that the future is not going to be
accomplished individually,although we are becoming more
and more individual focused.
But even through all the socialmedia, we're very individually
focused.
I see the future that it reallywill be accomplished by people
working together in teams andit's going to be where we have
more virtual teams workingtogether and they have to figure
(12:27):
out a way when they're workingvirtually across the globe, how
to work together in a virtualenvironment where you're not
always connecting person toperson.
It's probably the greatestquestion I get, the most common
question I get is how do youbecome a connected team when
you're working in a virtualenvironment?
And it really just takes moreeffort to make sure that you're
connecting using the latesttechnology to do so.
(12:50):
But now with Skype and zoom andall the, all the, all the, uh,
the tools that we have that alot of software companies have
created, those are a reallyefficient and effective tools
that create that connection.
But nothing is as effective asactually meeting in person and
developing that personalrelationship.
I don't care how much technologychanges, if we're human, it's
(13:11):
always going to be about thepersonal relationship.
Can I trust you and do you careabout me?
Dean Colvin (13:17):
Yeah.
It's interesting you talk aboutthe, the virtual teams.
You know, one of the things, Iwas, I felt really old last
year, I was at a conference andit was talking about sports and
teams and there's a wholesession on, on the E-sports
world.
You know, which, made me feeldated really quickly.
But it was pretty fascinatinghow, you know, even in that
(13:37):
e-sports world, y ou know, thesewere all like mostly college or
recent college kids.
You know, they were, they wereforming teams, you know,
competing in this e-sports worldand they w ere interacting like
teams that I was used to i nthat kind of regular physical
world of competition.
So it seems like i t's, it's,it's extending out.
Jon Gordon (13:57):
It is in all areas.
And you know, it's really a bigtopic that comes up a lot today
is collaborative leadership aswell.
I believe collaborativeleadership where the leader is
now working with their people,where he or she is working with
her team to develop a strongerteam.
Alan Mulally talked a lot aboutthis.
I've talked a lot about thiswith Sandy Barbour, who's the
(14:19):
Penn State athletic director.
It's more about, Hey, what dowe, what do we want to do?
What do we want to accomplish?
Where are we going?
Rather where in the old days itwas, this is where we're going.
Are you on my bus or not?
I wrote the Energy Bus in 2007if I could do it again, George
(14:39):
says to his team, Hey, here'sour vision.
This is where we're going.
Are you on my bus?
In today's economy and today'sworld and where we're going?
I would say, Hey, where do we togo and let's go there together.
Dean Colvin (14:53):
Are we going to see a new Energy Bus, a follow up?
Jon Gordon (14:57):
No.
No.
Because it's become in many waysa classic and a lot of people
are, and I still think it's veryeffective for that one person to
say, where do I want to go?
And I have to build a team herearound me to go there.
You know, I'm just giving alittle nuance.
But y eah, when I wrote ThePower of Positive Leadership,
that was everything I've learnedover the last 12 years working
(15:19):
with all these different leadersand teams.
So that pretty much fills all ofthe practical ideas and
practices and principles aboutwhat makes great leaders great.
And so these are really concreteideas that are being used that
you can use.
And it's not saying, Hey, useall of them, pick what works for
you and your team, get some goodideas, and then go out and start
(15:39):
implementing them and you'll seeresults.
Dean Colvin (15:41):
Yeah.
Well, uh, you've been anincredibly prolific author and I
think, I think our listenerswill be looking forward to the
next, the next offering from theJon Gordon authorship because
you've got some really fantasticideas that I think people g onna
look forward to hearing morefrom.
Jon Gordon (15:58):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you having me.
Dean Colvin (16:00):
Yeah, thanks very much for being on the podcast.
Diane Burton (16:04):
Thank you for joining us for"Work! Exploring
the future of work, labor andemployment." In our next
episode, Dean Colvin talks withRandi Weingarten, president of
the American Federation ofTeachers.
Again, thank you for listeningand learn more about ILR by
visiting us on the web atilr.cornell.edu.
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