July 30, 2024 • 30 mins
Rhona is joined by Taylor Desseyn, who shares his unconventional approach to tech recruiting, focusing on building a community rather than relying on traditional outreach strategies. He also shares his strategies for engaging his audience, including experimenting with content and listening to the market. Taylor encourages recruiters to embrace the future of online talent communities and leverage talent marketplaces like Gun.io.
📬 Newsletter: https://link.rhonapierce.com/YZEviw
//TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 INTRODUCTION
08:42 Experimenting with Content and Listening to the Market
15:05 The Importance of Building Community
19:11 The Power of Content in Helping Others
24:19 The Future of Talent Acquisition: Online Communities
29:03 In-Person Interactions and Talent Marketplaces
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rhona Pierce (00:00):
What if the key to successful recruiting isn't in
your outreach strategy, but inyour ability to build a
community?
Taylor Desseyn (00:07):
I mean, I think community building is
everything. And I think, I mean,I'm gonna say this, if you're a
recruiting firm and you're notfocused on building community in
the Discord through emailnewsletters, through virtual
events, you are going to be leftbehind.
Rhona Pierce (00:21):
That's Taylor Dessen, a recruiter who's turned
the traditional talentacquisition model on its head.
He's built a following of 1,000across multiple platforms, not
by cold calling or massemailing, but by creating
content that resonates withsoftware engineers.
Taylor Desseyn (00:38):
If you let data lead your content strategy,
you're not building community.I'm a say that again. If if you
focus on data, you're notbuilding community.
Rhona Pierce (00:45):
In this episode, Taylor shares his unconventional
approach to tech recruiting.He'll share how he manages
content across platforms, why heignores analytics, and what he
believes is the future of talentacquisition. Whether you're
starting out with contentcreation or looking to refine
your strategy, Taylor's insightswill challenge you to rethink
(01:07):
your approach to recruiting.Let's hear from Taylor about how
he got started in talentacquisition. So thank you so
much for being on the showtoday, Taylor.
Can you tell us a bit about howyou got started in recruiting?
Taylor Desseyn (01:21):
Yeah. I woke up one afternoon, and I felt a
calling. No. I'm just kidding.Honestly, I fell into it because
I was broke playing music, and Ineeded a day job.
I mean, for real, a lot ofpeople have asked me this
question, like, how'd you makethe transition? Like, did you
have, like, this epiphany? Like,you know, yada yada yada. And I
was like, no. Like, literally, Imoved to Nashville in 2011 to
(01:43):
serve tables and basically wasserving tables 6 nights a week
and I was losing money.
I grew up in the restaurantindustry. My dad owned the
Outback Steakhouse in myhometown, for 25, 30 years. And
so I grew up waiting tables, youknow, started at bus boy, you
know, getting paid under thetable at, like, 12 years old. I
don't know if I'm supposed tosay that out loud, but whatever.
(02:04):
And then essentially, obviously,worked my way up.
So I moved to Nashville, and Iwas like, listen. Like, this is
gonna be great because I madedecent money. Right? Because
when you're when you're in a asmall town, a college town, this
is where I was at, like,everybody eats corporate chain
restaurants. Right?
So I was like, well, I'm movingto Nashville. I'm only gonna
have to work, like, 2 nights aweek and be able to play. Dead
wrong. Nobody in Nashville eatschain restaurants or obviously
(02:24):
not as much as the generalpopulation. So I was, like,
losing money, and, like, myidiot self was gonna get, like,
a a valet job at night.
Like, I just didn't know how tofind a day job. And so I
basically there was a group ofus from my hometown that all
moved up together. I asked thisone person. I was like, Who do
you know? This girl nannied formy first boss.
(02:44):
She's like, Why nanny forsomebody? And I was like, Well,
if they can afford a nanny, Iwanna do what they do. And so so
I was like, what do they do? Andthey were like, well, she's
looking to hire a recruiter. Isaid, great.
So I interviewed, then a fewlike, a week or two later, I got
the offer. And I guess you couldsay the rest is history.
Rhona Pierce (02:58):
Wow. That's such a cool story. And I used to work
for a guy that firmly believesthat the best recruiters start
out working in the foodindustry. Like, it was a
problem. Yeah.
For him, it's like, you've neverworked at a restaurant. I'm
like, no. But I promise you I'mgreat at recruiting.
Taylor Desseyn (03:17):
Yeah. I mean, literally, like, looking back on
it, I mean, the restaurantindustry for sure. I mean, I
worked. Did you see that meme onthe Internet lately? It's like,
for millennials, our World War 2is working in the restaurant
industry.
Rhona Pierce (03:28):
No. I
Taylor Desseyn (03:28):
haven't seen that floating around. It was
like this meme that says, like,r v like, our world war 2 is
like, oh, you did hospitality oryou did restaurant or you did
retail. Like, oh, wow. It's likethose are the branches you
served. So out of the 3branches, hotel, restaurant, and
retail, I did a restaurant andretail.
So
Rhona Pierce (03:47):
Wow. So, so cool. Like many of us, like, no one
plans. Like, let's start as arecruiter. Like, hardly ever
plans that.
So what made you passionateabout, like, building online
communities for techprofessionals?
Taylor Desseyn (04:03):
Yeah. It happened really late in my
career, and that's why I tellpeople if if the people are
like, oh, I feel like I'm late,like you're like you're actually
never late because I didn'tstart this until 2020. But if
you look back on it, I wasactually starting the community
building process early in mycareer. I just didn't know it
then. So, basically, traditionalrecruiter, heads down, you know,
(04:25):
grinding.
One thing I did really well is Icould out grind outwork anybody
on my team. Right? So I was likefirst of the job boards. I mean,
you know, any recruiters thatwatch this. First of the job
boards, led the team insubmittals, led the team in
screens.
Like, I was just a machine. Andand so I did that, and I loved
it. Right? But I started toreally kind of get started to
really become annoyed with therecruiting process. After I I
(04:48):
was through 2020, at that point,I was recruiting for 9 years.
I would say around year 7, so,like, 2 years before the
pandemic, I started to getrestless. I was like, god,
there's gotta be a better way torecruit than just sending a
bunch of DMs, sending a bunch ofemails, getting people on the
phone. And so I started to get alittle frustrated. And then,
like, once COVID hit, I waslike, alright. I think now's my
(05:09):
time to, like, change things up.
Right? And so that's what I did.I started, you know, to really
follow I mean, really, a lot ofmy success is towards Gary
Vaynerchuk. I'm sure if youlisten to this and and, you
know, probably have heard of himat this point, kind of this
master content creator in thebusiness space, really led the
first, like, business personcreating content, right, like,
(05:31):
in my opinion. And so that,like, wasn't a true creator.
And so, you know, followedreally kind of his blueprint.
Right? I did I started my emailnewsletter. I started my texting
community. I started to putcontent on LinkedIn.
I started to put on content onTwitter. And and that really
kind of started my journey into,like, content community and
launched my Discord, I think, ayear like, 2 years ago and have
(05:54):
about 800 engineers on it now.And so so, yeah, again, spent my
entire career, obviously, headsdown, you know, doing the
tactile shaking hands, kissingbabies type thing, but really
kinda moved to more of acommunity mindset, in 2020.
Rhona Pierce (06:08):
Amazing. Amazing. I think that's really the year
where a lot of people started
Taylor Desseyn (06:13):
Yes.
Rhona Pierce (06:13):
Doing it and out of necessity for many reasons.
So I have a similar backgroundas you as far as, like
Taylor Desseyn (06:20):
Nice.
Rhona Pierce (06:20):
There has to be a better way to
Taylor Desseyn (06:22):
do this.
Rhona Pierce (06:23):
I'm so tired of DM ing people. Like
Taylor Desseyn (06:26):
Like, please talk to me. Please talk to me.
Rhona Pierce (06:29):
Yeah. Yes. So and then when everyone started doing
it, it's like, yeah. Now it'scool to do this thing that I've
been doing that every I've hadto convince every boss of, like,
maybe this is a you know, howthey are hesitant when you do
these things. So Oh, yeah.
We all know that contentstrategies that you use to
(06:54):
engage your audience?
Taylor Desseyn (06:57):
Strategies. I'm gonna be honest with you. I wing
everything. And to be honest, Ithink it drives a lot of people
nuts, especially, like,businesses I've consulted for
because they're like, would youhave a and, like, listen. Like,
Like, I'm not a polished socialmedia person.
Like, I'm not. Like, I'veconsulted with businesses and
brands to help grow theirpresence and, you know, I'm I'm
very good at, like, knowing theengineering market and knowing
(07:17):
the software engineering side ofthings and, like, knowing how to
communicate with softwaredevelopers. And so but the thing
is that what drives a lot ofleadership nuts is, like, I'm
not organized. I'm like, listen,just put stuff out. And they're
like, what do you mean just putstuff out?
I'm like, anything is content.Like, anything is content. And
when you start to, like, thinkof it that way, it's really hard
to put frameworks aroundeverything because you just the
(07:39):
the whole point is is trying toget your business or your daily
life that you consistently dooutward onto the Internet.
Right? And to do that, peopleget so muddled with strategies
that they don't put anythingout.
Right? They're just they'relike, well, we should set our
pillars, and we should set our,you know, we should set a
content calendar. This is a hottake here. If you set a content
(08:00):
calendar, that's not content.Because content in my
perspective is spur of themoment.
Prime example. Right? Last week,Gun. Io, the company I work for,
we put out a product. We droppeda product.
It's really, really cool. We'rebasically turning our entire
database of engineers becausewe're a talent marketplace into
a public ATS. Like, literallyany hiring manager, any
recruiter can use it to findengineers and then obviously pay
(08:22):
us a fee if you wanna use thedeveloper. And so I posted
something. What did I do?
I posted about another featurewe have coming out, but I forgot
to post about discover talentthe day it dropped. And I got
upset with myself because I waslike, oh, no. I missed out
because everything is socontextual. And so for me, you
know, when it comes to strategy,like, it's a lot of
(08:43):
experimenting. That's why Idrive a lot of traditional
marketers nuts.
I've worked with a lot oftraditional marketers, and I've
not gotten along with them. Andthat's okay. Like, I I I totally
understand in my pastexperiences. And for me, it's
like, to do content, it's kindof like consistently texting and
communicating with your friendsat scale. Right?
So you don't put metrics on yourtext messaging with friends. You
(09:05):
don't put guardrails on how youtext with friends. You have a
conversation, and that's howbusinesses need to think about
strategy, and that's how I thinkabout strategy. I just post
everything. There's obviouslythere are some nuances that we
can get into it.
But for the most part, postthings who obviously that
resonate with people, Right?That and show your journey,
which is incredibly important.
Rhona Pierce (09:24):
So I know you say that strategy is really not your
thing or anything,
Taylor Desseyn (09:30):
but
Rhona Pierce (09:31):
I've looked at your content. I've looked at
what you do, and I do thinkthere's kind of maybe some
strategy behind it.
Taylor Desseyn (09:39):
There is. I mean, like, that was tongue in
cheek a little bit. I mean, sofor me, like, I did set my
audience in who I wanted to talkto. Right? So as a recruiter, as
a traditional recruiter, I kindasat down.
I was like, alright. Who am Itrying to reach? Who am I trying
to reach? Reach? 1, I'm tryingto reach hiring managers so they
can hire from me.
2, I'm trying to reach thesoftware developer community
(10:02):
because that was the niche thatI doubled down on. So I was
like, alright. How do Icommunicate to those people
without communicating to them? Istarted an engineering podcast
based off the job search. Right?
So, again, like, I didn't starta recruiting podcast. I started
a podcast that had my audiencein mind and then I worked
backwards from that. So and thenbased off how I'm pivoting, I'm
(10:23):
starting to put out more contentaround building content because
I'm building out content at gun.Io, you know, building more
community stuff at gun. Io, soI'm starting to pivot my
content.
But for me to at the start,figure out who you're trying to
talk to and develop content forthat audience. Don't develop
content for you.
Rhona Pierce (10:39):
That is the most important thing, and that's so
crucial. And that's what I wasgonna say. Looking at your
content, it's very clear whoit's for. It's it's like you see
other people's content. You'relike, well, who do they sell to?
Who are they talking to? It'slike, no. I absolutely know
Taylor's talking to engineersand obviously to the people who
hire engineers. So that that'sthat's really great. You are
(11:03):
everywhere.
Podcasting, texting, Discord,Twitter, LinkedIn, literally
everywhere. How do you manageyour time effectively to
maintain engagement across allof these channels and, like, do
your
Taylor Desseyn (11:18):
job. Yeah. So it's Lily, as you said that I
just changed the calendar inviteon my calendar right now as
we're talking for something. So,you know, I'm getting this
question a lot, and I'm veryblessed to have a small
marketing budget, to have acontent team around me to help
distribute this stuff at scale.I did not start out that way.
I literally started in March of2020 on my content journey,
(11:40):
posting manually to LinkedIn,using the scheduling tool on
LinkedIn, and then posting toTwitter. Those are the 2
platforms. Right? You gottafigure out where your platforms
are. For the most part, peoplewho watch this podcast or list
this podcast, you're mostlygonna be on on LinkedIn.
Right? Yeah. Maybe on Twitter,but mainly LinkedIn. And so for
me, like, you know, a lot ofpeople wanna do all the things
at one time, and then they getburned out, and then they just
(12:02):
get dizzy, and they're like, ah,forget it. I can't I can't do
this anymore.
For me, I I have built myaudience and my growth on each
platform year over year. So 2020was LinkedIn, Twitter. That was
it. 2021 was I think we addedTikTok. 2022, we added Instagram
with Discord.
(12:23):
2023 was YouTube, and then 2024this year is much more YouTube
and, like, educational content.And so, again, like, for those
of you listening, like, Istarted posting my own self.
Just to let you know how faralong, like, I've I've come, I
used to sit down in thepandemic, and I bought a $20
(12:43):
Amazon phone stand, and I posted3 minute long videos on LinkedIn
shot horizontal on your phone. Idon't know if you know, but,
like, no one does that now.Right?
You can say, well, that that'sthat's YouTube content, and it
is. But, like, now it'severything's vertical.
Everything's off your phone.Everything's short because none
of us got attention spans. So,again, like, I've kind of walked
(13:04):
through this process and andexperimented experimented with a
lot.
But, again, I started with justmyself. But now I have a team
that helps me, which I'm very,very grateful for. How big is
your team? So I have aghostwriter to help with emails.
So I write my own e I write mostof the email newsletter.
My ghostwriter writes, like, thesummary of the video I put out.
(13:24):
My ghostwriter also puts outTikTok and Instagram posts
because those platforms aren'treally focused on community
building. It's more just theactual video. It's not the text.
So I'm very particular to makesure that my voice comes
through, and I'm very particularon who writes it for me.
I'm very fortunate. The girl whoactually does my ghostwriting,
who works for my content companyor my buddy's content company,
(13:47):
She's like BFFs of my wife.Like, they grew up together. K.
So it's like a really smallworld, but she's an amazing
writer and really writes like Ido, which is incredibly
important, which, you know, wecan dive into about tone and
stuff like that from a businessperspective.
But for me, I try to make sure Icontrol the platforms that,
like, are like, you have to havetone and knowledge of the
market, which for me is Twitterand LinkedIn. So I always
(14:09):
control my Twitter and LinkedIn.We have another guy that does
part time stuff for my YouTubebecause he does all the
thumbnails and curation of it. Ihave a video editor, so 3
people. 3 people.
And then and then we pull infractional video people
depending on what the projectis.
Rhona Pierce (14:22):
Cool.
Taylor Desseyn (14:23):
Yep. Yep.
Rhona Pierce (14:24):
Very, very cool. Have you faced any challenges
in, like, building yourcommunity and, like, creating
content?
Taylor Desseyn (14:31):
Yeah. I mean, a lot of challenges. Right? I
mean, I think experimenting whatworks. I mean, if if you see
some of my old stuff, it'sawful.
And, I think I posted a video onTwitter the other day.
Everyone's like, you don't lookthat bad. And I was like, I
think I look awful. I think thebiggest challenge is is you
can't do this for the likes andfollower count. You just can't.
Like, I've stopped looking atanalytics a long time ago, and I
would say that for businesses.And I sold that to Gun. Io, and
(14:53):
they were very appreciative. Iwas like, listen, we can't look
at analytics for, like, the 1styear. And so, like, everything's
gotta be organic.
It's about building if you getcaught up if you let data lead
your content strategy, you'renot building community. I'm a
say that again. If if you focuson data, you're not building
community. Right? What I mean bythat is if if you let the data
dictate on how you post, you'renot gonna be posting relevant
(15:14):
stuff that your community wantsto listen to because data shows
a lagging indicator, not aforward indicator.
Right? And so so when it comesto content, you gotta be
constantly listening. How do Ilisten? I live on Twitter.
Right?
I literally have TweetDeck open247. I follow a bunch of
developer blogs. I follow abunch of developer podcasts.
(15:34):
Right? I follow a bunch ofconferences.
I follow a bunch of quoteunquote tech influencers. Right?
To try to keep, like, updatedand listen and follow the
industry because I'm not in theindustry. Right? Like, you gotta
remember, I'm a recruiter thatis wolf in sheep's clothing.
Right? And I'm very aware ofthat, so I take my role
seriously to basically be like,listen. Before I speak, I need
(15:54):
to know the industry. Right? Iwent out on a limb today and
posted about back endengineering and AI.
It was very aggressive, verytechie for me. Fortunately, it
was well received, but it'sbecause I've listened and I've
observed before making posts.And so I think the biggest
challenge is is I always wannagrow faster. I always wanna put
out more interesting content.But what I've realized is this
(16:15):
thing's a journey.
It's like going to the gym.You're not gonna get in shape
overnight. Your content, yourcommunity is not gonna get
better or grow overnight either.
Rhona Pierce (16:22):
Yeah. And and I think the difference that we
have as recruiters, as TAprofessionals in creating
content and why what you said isso important. It's not about
likes and follows and stuff likethat. It's about building
community because it goes backto traditional recruiting.
People want to work and they'regonna go with people that they
trust.
(16:43):
Just your content isn't gonnabuild trust. It's building that
community behind your contentthat builds that trust. And at
the end of the day, you're doingit to recruit. Right? You're not
doing it to be an influencer.
Right.
Taylor Desseyn (16:55):
Yeah. And it is interesting. You know, I I hate
the word influencer. You know? Ihate the word content creator.
It's so funny. I I went to thedentist yesterday, and they're
like, so what do you do? And Iwas like, I was like, I
literally can say recruiter orcontent creator, and I hate both
words. And so so for me, yeah,again, I think, like, you have
to want to help people, and thebest way to help people is to
(17:18):
give back at scale throughcontent. Yes.
Rhona Pierce (17:21):
That reminded me of your video that you did a few
days ago or was yesterday about,like, what you do and explaining
it
Taylor Desseyn (17:28):
to your
Rhona Pierce (17:28):
mom when she asked. I was like, I need I need
to
Taylor Desseyn (17:31):
do one of these. All the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. No. I explained it to mymom. Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (17:37):
I explained it to her, and she's like, so you're
an influencer? No. Let's not usethat word to describe me.
Taylor Desseyn (17:42):
Well, we've we've gotten to the point. It
was really funny. And listen,I'm super blessed. I don't say
this to brag, but, like, my wifeeven's gotten to the point now
where if somebody comes to her,like, so my wife's a
photographer and a commercialphotographer. She's on set right
now at a week long photo shootfor doing some product stuff.
And one of the managers on set,their son is trying to get into
(18:03):
software development. And mywife was so funny. She she
humbles me. I love her to death,but she keeps me in check. And
she but she did say she goes,listen.
She was actually my husband's,influencer in the software
engineering space. And for herto say that, I was like,
alright. Thank you. Butbasically, like but it was
really cool. We were at Mother'sDay lunch on Sunday, and the guy
that served tables for us knowsme through my content, through
(18:26):
career advice stuff.
So really cool to be able to goout. I've started to get that
more Nashville, and it's it'sreally humbling, but it also
makes me more motivated, and itputs more responsibility. Like,
people are watching, and and Itake that very seriously.
Rhona Pierce (18:40):
Yeah. And that's something very important to keep
in mind as recruiters, as we'recreating content. It's for job
search. That's a life changingsituation in anyone's life.
Like, and it's a hugeresponsibility what you're
saying, what you're putting outthere because it's potentially
impacting someone's livelihood.
Taylor Desseyn (19:02):
Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
Rhona Pierce (19:03):
How do you decide, like, what type of content
resonates best with yourcommunity? Because you do all of
these things. How and you don'tlook at metrics. So how do you
decide, like, okay. This is theone that works the best, this
type?
Taylor Desseyn (19:17):
Again, it's it's listening to the market. Right?
So the content I put out todaythat's doing very well on
LinkedIn is around back endengineering. And so what I did
is, like, I was like, alright.So it's kind of a twofold.
So the so I created this post,and I talked about how AI and
machine learning are gonna fuelmore back end engineers and that
there's not enough back endengineers right now because
everybody went front end overthe years. So I pulled this so
(19:38):
to kinda get you in my brain tosee how I create a post. So I
was like, well, I was like,well, first off so main thing is
is I tease my topics throughTwitter. So Twitter is a brain
dump for me. I tweet everything.
Right? And I probably so people,like, try to play the game and
get paid by Twitter, which Iget. And so they tweet less and
they try to give hot takes orthey try to give, like it's more
(20:00):
of a scarcity mindset. Set.That's not me.
I tweet everything. I tweetprobably 15, 20 times a day. I
never get a ton of impressions.But what I do is I experiment
with the content that works.Right?
So the post I made today aboutLinkedIn, I made a post
yesterday about back endengineering and how people need
to focus on that. That did verywell. A lot of great
conversations. Like, okay. Sothis is good.
So then I expanded on myLinkedIn post a little bit to
(20:23):
make it a little bit more forLinkedIn, not quite as short
form as Twitter. And I was like,alright. What are some other
data points I can pull from myexperience? I remember
recruiting React when Reactfirst came out and companies
were like, like, if you couldspell React, you get you got
hired. And so I was like,alright, well, I'm gonna put
that into my post because it'smy experience, and it's what
worked on Twitter yesterday.
And so the 2 come together tomake a really meaningful post on
(20:46):
LinkedIn. So that's what I do.Again, it's I grew up playing
drums. I moved to Nashville todo music to play drums. I've
taught drums for a long time.
Sometimes with drums, you eitherhave it or you just don't. And I
think a lot with contentcreation is kinda that way. You
either kinda get it or youdon't. And so I can tell you how
I do it, but to me, it's likeany sport. Right?
(21:10):
I play ice hockey. We won ourchampionships last night. Shout
out. Very excited about that.When I go out on the ice, I
don't think.
I just do. If you play football,you don't think about where your
hand like, when I play hockeyI'm not even gonna try to do
football. I've never playedfootball. I was a band nerd.
But, like, you know, like like,play hockey.
Like, when I get the hockeystick, I don't think or the puck
on my stick, I don't think,okay. The puck's on my stick. I
(21:30):
gotta skate forward. I gottalook up. I gotta pass the the
offensive guy on my left.
I don't think that. It's justit's fluid, and that's the way
it is with me with content. Butthat's probably the best way to
break down on how I think aboutposts.
Rhona Pierce (21:43):
No. That that totally makes sense. So talking
a little bit about the thesourcing aspect of it, do you
find that people in yourcommunities recommend each other
for opportunities?
Taylor Desseyn (21:55):
What do you mean by that?
Rhona Pierce (21:56):
So you have a Discord. You have people on just
followers. When you tweet abouta job or something like that, do
you find that they share itorganically that they tell other
people about it?
Taylor Desseyn (22:09):
Yeah. So, I mean, I'm I think in this
market, I think it's afascinating time, especially for
recruiters that that listen tothis. I I think you have such an
amazing opportunity to shareyour jobs on social like like,
when I was a traditionalrecruiter and at my last company
and I started to train the teamon how to put out content, the
easiest content you could putout as a recruiter is what job
you're working on right now.Like, post it. It'll spread like
(22:31):
wildfire.
Why? Because people genuinelywanna help people right now
because the market sucks. Itjust does. Like, let's not put a
sugarcoat on it. I'm not goingto be the recruiter.
It's like, everything's good.No. It's actually probably
gotten a little worse in thelast, like, 45 days based off
some data I've been seeing. Ithink it's finally starting to
come out that the government maybe giving some false data around
job stuff. Like things arestarting to get a little weird
(22:53):
and I don't like it becausebetween me and you, I thought
we'd be out of this mess at thispoint.
So for example, Prime is April.I have a video post that I did
that my video guy edited that Iwas gonna put out today, and I
listened to it. And it's mesaying the market's getting
better. That was, like, 6 monthsago, but I'm not gonna post it
now because it's not. That'swhat makes it so difficult.
But, yeah, going back to puttingout content, like, jobs, like,
(23:14):
everybody wants to help eachother with jobs. And so if
you're listless and you're arecruiter, I think the best way
to get because I get a lot ofrecruiters. I'm sure you do too.
Like, how do I get started in mycontent journey? Just just post
a job.
Just once a day, just post a jobyou're working on. But give some
context. Right? If you'reworking on a developer, don't
say, hey. I have a JavaScriptdeveloper that pays 90 k.
Say, hey. I have a JavaScriptdeveloper that specializes in
React and Node. Need that'spaying a 150 ks. You really need
(23:36):
some AWS with some Lambdaservices. It's fully remote, but
they want this person like, tella story.
And if you can start getting inthat habit, you're gonna be able
to source candidates from theinternet. Like my candidates
that I find from the internetare way better than anything
you're gonna find on the jobboards.
Rhona Pierce (23:52):
Yes. A 100 a 1000000 percent on that. I don't
think I've sourced from a jobwhere I'm not recruiting
actively right now, but I don'tlast year I was or 2022 I was. I
don't
Taylor Desseyn (24:03):
think
Rhona Pierce (24:03):
I source from any job boards. No.
Taylor Desseyn (24:05):
It's
Rhona Pierce (24:05):
all online. It's all all that. So looking ahead,
what are your thoughts on, like,the future of online talent
communities?
Taylor Desseyn (24:15):
I think community building is
everything. And I think I mean,I'm gonna say this. If you're a
recruiting firm and you're notfocused on building community in
the Discord through emailnewsletters, through virtual
events, you are going to be leftbehind. Because now you could be
a $1,000,000,000 organizationlistening to this right now. And
if you are, thank you forlistening.
I appreciate it. But, like, yougotta focus on community. Like,
(24:39):
people want to feel a part of abrand, and people wanna feel a
part of a community these days.And, like, there's been a huge
shift. There's been a huge shiftin sales.
Right? Everything's contentfocused now. Everything is top
of the funnel awareness and kindof massaging. It's this terrible
term, but massaging that personthrough the process to get a
sale. Right?
I saw a great TikTok the otherday from a from a CMO and she
(25:01):
was like, long gone are thedays. If you wanna make more
sales, make more sales calls.She goes, you wanna make more
sales, put up more content.Right? And so I think every
recruiting organization rightnow needs to be focused on
building content, creatingcontent.
I wanna give a shout out toSpyGlass Partners. Some of my
old team is there that Imanaged, and they are encouraged
to have a live show podcast.Like, every person is
(25:23):
encouraged. And so 2 of my oldcolleagues, shout to Sloan,
shout to Joseph Jewell, youguys, and Sloan Bartley, you
guys are the greatest. They'veboth I've been very proud of
them watching their contentjourney.
They've both started morningshows and turned into podcast
form. And I think everyrecruiting organization needs at
least one. I think I've pitchedthis to other recruiting
companies in the past. Dependingon your specialties, I think you
(25:45):
need to have a podcast perspecialty. So if you do
cybersecurity, you need to havea cybersecurity podcast.
If you have an accountingpractice, you need an accounting
podcast. Right? And it's veryeasy. You just interview people
within your community based offtopics that community would
wanna know. Right?
So, again, I'm not anaccountant, but I'm sure there's
topics that accountants arepassionate about right now. I
don't know what they are, butI'm sure they're out there. And
(26:07):
so I think moving forward, Ithink every company needs a
Discord. Every person needs to Ithink marketing teams are
different now. They need to lookdifferent instead of hiring
traditional marketers.
I think you hire content teamsnow. You hire video editors. You
hire copywriters. You hirepeople who literally just press
post on a post. Right?
Like, that's what it looks likemoving forward. I think the
companies that can trulyunderstand that are gonna be
(26:29):
able to move so much faster andhave such better candidate
quality for your clients.
Rhona Pierce (26:34):
Yeah. And for those listening, I have 2
episodes where I spoke to 2different organizations doing
podcasting to attract talent. Itblew my mind how easy it is for
them to do it, the topics.Because like you said, maybe you
don't know about a contenttopics. But if you're recruiting
for accounting, you should knowwhat the things they're
(26:56):
interested in.
The podcast is really their topstrategy for attracting
Taylor Desseyn (27:01):
That's it.
Rhona Pierce (27:02):
Talent.
Taylor Desseyn (27:03):
That's it.
Rhona Pierce (27:03):
I was it blew my mind. So I'll link those also in
the show notes so that peoplecan see. So we've talked a lot
about online. But now thatpeople are back into, like,
going to conferences and andthings like that, how do you
think that in person is playinga role in this community
building?
Taylor Desseyn (27:22):
In person is everything. Right? So so if you
wanna look top of the funnel,bottom of the funnel in terms of
marketing terms, top of thefunnel is your content online.
Bottom of the funnel is shakinghands and kissing babies. Right?
And so right now, like, again,if I had it my way, if I built
my own recruiting agency, right,the way I wanna build it, I
would hire I would build acontent team, not a marketing
team, and I would have somebodylead the content team. And any
(27:46):
event we go to, I would bring avideo person to document it. My
success has exponentiallyincreased over the last 3 or 4
years because I've had theopportunity with the companies
I've worked for that havesupported me, and shout out Gun.
Io for supporting me in this,they allowed me to bring a video
person with me. And we capturemoments, we capture
(28:09):
conversations, we edit it, wegive it back at scale.
And that does multiple things.It it like, social proof is
everything right now. Like,people to be trusted, and we all
know this in the recruitingspace, you have to, like, break
bread with your people to beaccepted with your people. And I
think, really, I think a lot ofrecruiters miss out on that.
They wanna sit at their desk.
(28:29):
They wanna pound out a bunch ofcalls. They wanna be done for
the day, which is fine. I know aton of recruiters at my last
company. That's all their jobwas. They never went to
conferences.
They never put out content, andthey made way more money than
me. But that's not what I want.I really want that community,
and I will tell you this. Like,going to conferences is
everything. Shaking hands iseverything.
(28:49):
And and I think recruiting firmsright now need a budget for your
recruiters to go to conferences,not just sponsor. And this is a
whole another thing. Justsponsoring a conference is not
enough these days. Again, theplaybook has shifted because of
COVID. And, like, the sooner arecruiting organization
obviously, I'm very passionateabout this right now.
It's between the iced coffee andthe little sleep because I was
up last night. You know, again,it's just it's just so, so
(29:13):
important.
Rhona Pierce (29:14):
Yeah. It really is. And last thing, I also come
from a background of talentmarketplaces. I really believe
in them. I real believe in thedifferences between recruiting
agencies, which I'm notknocking, but I know that talent
marketplaces bring a lot morevalue, especially because of
this community building aspectthat they have and how quickly
(29:38):
they can fill roles.
Is there anything you wanna sayabout Gun. Io or how people can
contact you and learn more aboutyour talent marketplace?
Taylor Desseyn (29:47):
Yeah. I mean, I'm on all socials, t dessin, t
d e s s e y n. I'm on everysocial media platform but
Snapchat. Reach out to me at,this is your taylordessen@gunio.
But, yeah, again, just just hitme up.
We'd love to chat. And, like Isaid, I'm constantly online, so
you all always give me.
Rhona Pierce (30:04):
Perfect. And I'll link in the show notes as well.
So thank you so much for thisconversation today, Taylor. I
think it's gonna be great foreveryone who's wanting to get
started with content andbuilding communities.
Taylor Desseyn (30:17):
Love it. Thank you.
Rhona Pierce (30:19):
Wow. Taylor shared a ton of great information.
Turns out, you don't have tocreate the same type of content
every other recruiter iscreating in order to build a
talent community. Be sure toconnect with Taylor. His contact
info is in the show notes.
Speaking of content, next week,I'm chatting with Joel Lalje. If
you haven't heard of him, you'vedefinitely been living under a
(30:40):
rock. Joel's content iseverywhere. Subscribe to
throughout the playbook whereveryou get your podcasts so that
you don't miss out on ourconversation. It's a free
masterclass in content creationfor recruiters.
Thanks for listening, and I'llchat with you next week.
What if the key to successful recruiting isn't in
your outreach strategy, but inyour ability to build a
community?
Taylor Desseyn (00:07):
I mean, I think community building is
everything. And I think, I mean,I'm gonna say this, if you're a
recruiting firm and you're notfocused on building community in
the Discord through emailnewsletters, through virtual
events, you are going to be leftbehind.
Rhona Pierce (00:21):
That's Taylor Dessen, a recruiter who's turned
the traditional talentacquisition model on its head.
He's built a following of 1,000across multiple platforms, not
by cold calling or massemailing, but by creating
content that resonates withsoftware engineers.
Taylor Desseyn (00:38):
If you let data lead your content strategy,
you're not building community.I'm a say that again. If if you
focus on data, you're notbuilding community.
Rhona Pierce (00:45):
In this episode, Taylor shares his unconventional
approach to tech recruiting.He'll share how he manages
content across platforms, why heignores analytics, and what he
believes is the future of talentacquisition. Whether you're
starting out with contentcreation or looking to refine
your strategy, Taylor's insightswill challenge you to rethink
(01:07):
your approach to recruiting.Let's hear from Taylor about how
he got started in talentacquisition. So thank you so
much for being on the showtoday, Taylor.
Can you tell us a bit about howyou got started in recruiting?
Taylor Desseyn (01:21):
Yeah. I woke up one afternoon, and I felt a
calling. No. I'm just kidding.Honestly, I fell into it because
I was broke playing music, and Ineeded a day job.
I mean, for real, a lot ofpeople have asked me this
question, like, how'd you makethe transition? Like, did you
have, like, this epiphany? Like,you know, yada yada yada. And I
was like, no. Like, literally, Imoved to Nashville in 2011 to
(01:43):
serve tables and basically wasserving tables 6 nights a week
and I was losing money.
I grew up in the restaurantindustry. My dad owned the
Outback Steakhouse in myhometown, for 25, 30 years. And
so I grew up waiting tables, youknow, started at bus boy, you
know, getting paid under thetable at, like, 12 years old. I
don't know if I'm supposed tosay that out loud, but whatever.
(02:04):
And then essentially, obviously,worked my way up.
So I moved to Nashville, and Iwas like, listen. Like, this is
gonna be great because I madedecent money. Right? Because
when you're when you're in a asmall town, a college town, this
is where I was at, like,everybody eats corporate chain
restaurants. Right?
So I was like, well, I'm movingto Nashville. I'm only gonna
have to work, like, 2 nights aweek and be able to play. Dead
wrong. Nobody in Nashville eatschain restaurants or obviously
(02:24):
not as much as the generalpopulation. So I was, like,
losing money, and, like, myidiot self was gonna get, like,
a a valet job at night.
Like, I just didn't know how tofind a day job. And so I
basically there was a group ofus from my hometown that all
moved up together. I asked thisone person. I was like, Who do
you know? This girl nannied formy first boss.
(02:44):
She's like, Why nanny forsomebody? And I was like, Well,
if they can afford a nanny, Iwanna do what they do. And so so
I was like, what do they do? Andthey were like, well, she's
looking to hire a recruiter. Isaid, great.
So I interviewed, then a fewlike, a week or two later, I got
the offer. And I guess you couldsay the rest is history.
Rhona Pierce (02:58):
Wow. That's such a cool story. And I used to work
for a guy that firmly believesthat the best recruiters start
out working in the foodindustry. Like, it was a
problem. Yeah.
For him, it's like, you've neverworked at a restaurant. I'm
like, no. But I promise you I'mgreat at recruiting.
Taylor Desseyn (03:17):
Yeah. I mean, literally, like, looking back on
it, I mean, the restaurantindustry for sure. I mean, I
worked. Did you see that meme onthe Internet lately? It's like,
for millennials, our World War 2is working in the restaurant
industry.
Rhona Pierce (03:28):
No. I
Taylor Desseyn (03:28):
haven't seen that floating around. It was
like this meme that says, like,r v like, our world war 2 is
like, oh, you did hospitality oryou did restaurant or you did
retail. Like, oh, wow. It's likethose are the branches you
served. So out of the 3branches, hotel, restaurant, and
retail, I did a restaurant andretail.
So
Rhona Pierce (03:47):
Wow. So, so cool. Like many of us, like, no one
plans. Like, let's start as arecruiter. Like, hardly ever
plans that.
So what made you passionateabout, like, building online
communities for techprofessionals?
Taylor Desseyn (04:03):
Yeah. It happened really late in my
career, and that's why I tellpeople if if the people are
like, oh, I feel like I'm late,like you're like you're actually
never late because I didn'tstart this until 2020. But if
you look back on it, I wasactually starting the community
building process early in mycareer. I just didn't know it
then. So, basically, traditionalrecruiter, heads down, you know,
(04:25):
grinding.
One thing I did really well is Icould out grind outwork anybody
on my team. Right? So I was likefirst of the job boards. I mean,
you know, any recruiters thatwatch this. First of the job
boards, led the team insubmittals, led the team in
screens.
Like, I was just a machine. Andand so I did that, and I loved
it. Right? But I started toreally kind of get started to
really become annoyed with therecruiting process. After I I
(04:48):
was through 2020, at that point,I was recruiting for 9 years.
I would say around year 7, so,like, 2 years before the
pandemic, I started to getrestless. I was like, god,
there's gotta be a better way torecruit than just sending a
bunch of DMs, sending a bunch ofemails, getting people on the
phone. And so I started to get alittle frustrated. And then,
like, once COVID hit, I waslike, alright. I think now's my
(05:09):
time to, like, change things up.
Right? And so that's what I did.I started, you know, to really
follow I mean, really, a lot ofmy success is towards Gary
Vaynerchuk. I'm sure if youlisten to this and and, you
know, probably have heard of himat this point, kind of this
master content creator in thebusiness space, really led the
first, like, business personcreating content, right, like,
(05:31):
in my opinion. And so that,like, wasn't a true creator.
And so, you know, followedreally kind of his blueprint.
Right? I did I started my emailnewsletter. I started my texting
community. I started to putcontent on LinkedIn.
I started to put on content onTwitter. And and that really
kind of started my journey into,like, content community and
launched my Discord, I think, ayear like, 2 years ago and have
(05:54):
about 800 engineers on it now.And so so, yeah, again, spent my
entire career, obviously, headsdown, you know, doing the
tactile shaking hands, kissingbabies type thing, but really
kinda moved to more of acommunity mindset, in 2020.
Rhona Pierce (06:08):
Amazing. Amazing. I think that's really the year
where a lot of people started
Taylor Desseyn (06:13):
Yes.
Rhona Pierce (06:13):
Doing it and out of necessity for many reasons.
So I have a similar backgroundas you as far as, like
Taylor Desseyn (06:20):
Nice.
Rhona Pierce (06:20):
There has to be a better way to
Taylor Desseyn (06:22):
do this.
Rhona Pierce (06:23):
I'm so tired of DM ing people. Like
Taylor Desseyn (06:26):
Like, please talk to me. Please talk to me.
Rhona Pierce (06:29):
Yeah. Yes. So and then when everyone started doing
it, it's like, yeah. Now it'scool to do this thing that I've
been doing that every I've hadto convince every boss of, like,
maybe this is a you know, howthey are hesitant when you do
these things. So Oh, yeah.
We all know that contentstrategies that you use to
(06:54):
engage your audience?
Taylor Desseyn (06:57):
Strategies. I'm gonna be honest with you. I wing
everything. And to be honest, Ithink it drives a lot of people
nuts, especially, like,businesses I've consulted for
because they're like, would youhave a and, like, listen. Like,
Like, I'm not a polished socialmedia person.
Like, I'm not. Like, I'veconsulted with businesses and
brands to help grow theirpresence and, you know, I'm I'm
very good at, like, knowing theengineering market and knowing
(07:17):
the software engineering side ofthings and, like, knowing how to
communicate with softwaredevelopers. And so but the thing
is that what drives a lot ofleadership nuts is, like, I'm
not organized. I'm like, listen,just put stuff out. And they're
like, what do you mean just putstuff out?
I'm like, anything is content.Like, anything is content. And
when you start to, like, thinkof it that way, it's really hard
to put frameworks aroundeverything because you just the
(07:39):
the whole point is is trying toget your business or your daily
life that you consistently dooutward onto the Internet.
Right? And to do that, peopleget so muddled with strategies
that they don't put anythingout.
Right? They're just they'relike, well, we should set our
pillars, and we should set our,you know, we should set a
content calendar. This is a hottake here. If you set a content
(08:00):
calendar, that's not content.Because content in my
perspective is spur of themoment.
Prime example. Right? Last week,Gun. Io, the company I work for,
we put out a product. We droppeda product.
It's really, really cool. We'rebasically turning our entire
database of engineers becausewe're a talent marketplace into
a public ATS. Like, literallyany hiring manager, any
recruiter can use it to findengineers and then obviously pay
(08:22):
us a fee if you wanna use thedeveloper. And so I posted
something. What did I do?
I posted about another featurewe have coming out, but I forgot
to post about discover talentthe day it dropped. And I got
upset with myself because I waslike, oh, no. I missed out
because everything is socontextual. And so for me, you
know, when it comes to strategy,like, it's a lot of
(08:43):
experimenting. That's why Idrive a lot of traditional
marketers nuts.
I've worked with a lot oftraditional marketers, and I've
not gotten along with them. Andthat's okay. Like, I I I totally
understand in my pastexperiences. And for me, it's
like, to do content, it's kindof like consistently texting and
communicating with your friendsat scale. Right?
So you don't put metrics on yourtext messaging with friends. You
(09:05):
don't put guardrails on how youtext with friends. You have a
conversation, and that's howbusinesses need to think about
strategy, and that's how I thinkabout strategy. I just post
everything. There's obviouslythere are some nuances that we
can get into it.
But for the most part, postthings who obviously that
resonate with people, Right?That and show your journey,
which is incredibly important.
Rhona Pierce (09:24):
So I know you say that strategy is really not your
thing or anything,
Taylor Desseyn (09:30):
but
Rhona Pierce (09:31):
I've looked at your content. I've looked at
what you do, and I do thinkthere's kind of maybe some
strategy behind it.
Taylor Desseyn (09:39):
There is. I mean, like, that was tongue in
cheek a little bit. I mean, sofor me, like, I did set my
audience in who I wanted to talkto. Right? So as a recruiter, as
a traditional recruiter, I kindasat down.
I was like, alright. Who am Itrying to reach? Who am I trying
to reach? Reach? 1, I'm tryingto reach hiring managers so they
can hire from me.
2, I'm trying to reach thesoftware developer community
(10:02):
because that was the niche thatI doubled down on. So I was
like, alright. How do Icommunicate to those people
without communicating to them? Istarted an engineering podcast
based off the job search. Right?
So, again, like, I didn't starta recruiting podcast. I started
a podcast that had my audiencein mind and then I worked
backwards from that. So and thenbased off how I'm pivoting, I'm
(10:23):
starting to put out more contentaround building content because
I'm building out content at gun.Io, you know, building more
community stuff at gun. Io, soI'm starting to pivot my
content.
But for me to at the start,figure out who you're trying to
talk to and develop content forthat audience. Don't develop
content for you.
Rhona Pierce (10:39):
That is the most important thing, and that's so
crucial. And that's what I wasgonna say. Looking at your
content, it's very clear whoit's for. It's it's like you see
other people's content. You'relike, well, who do they sell to?
Who are they talking to? It'slike, no. I absolutely know
Taylor's talking to engineersand obviously to the people who
hire engineers. So that that'sthat's really great. You are
(11:03):
everywhere.
Podcasting, texting, Discord,Twitter, LinkedIn, literally
everywhere. How do you manageyour time effectively to
maintain engagement across allof these channels and, like, do
your
Taylor Desseyn (11:18):
job. Yeah. So it's Lily, as you said that I
just changed the calendar inviteon my calendar right now as
we're talking for something. So,you know, I'm getting this
question a lot, and I'm veryblessed to have a small
marketing budget, to have acontent team around me to help
distribute this stuff at scale.I did not start out that way.
I literally started in March of2020 on my content journey,
(11:40):
posting manually to LinkedIn,using the scheduling tool on
LinkedIn, and then posting toTwitter. Those are the 2
platforms. Right? You gottafigure out where your platforms
are. For the most part, peoplewho watch this podcast or list
this podcast, you're mostlygonna be on on LinkedIn.
Right? Yeah. Maybe on Twitter,but mainly LinkedIn. And so for
me, like, you know, a lot ofpeople wanna do all the things
at one time, and then they getburned out, and then they just
(12:02):
get dizzy, and they're like, ah,forget it. I can't I can't do
this anymore.
For me, I I have built myaudience and my growth on each
platform year over year. So 2020was LinkedIn, Twitter. That was
it. 2021 was I think we addedTikTok. 2022, we added Instagram
with Discord.
(12:23):
2023 was YouTube, and then 2024this year is much more YouTube
and, like, educational content.And so, again, like, for those
of you listening, like, Istarted posting my own self.
Just to let you know how faralong, like, I've I've come, I
used to sit down in thepandemic, and I bought a $20
(12:43):
Amazon phone stand, and I posted3 minute long videos on LinkedIn
shot horizontal on your phone. Idon't know if you know, but,
like, no one does that now.Right?
You can say, well, that that'sthat's YouTube content, and it
is. But, like, now it'severything's vertical.
Everything's off your phone.Everything's short because none
of us got attention spans. So,again, like, I've kind of walked
(13:04):
through this process and andexperimented experimented with a
lot.
But, again, I started with justmyself. But now I have a team
that helps me, which I'm very,very grateful for. How big is
your team? So I have aghostwriter to help with emails.
So I write my own e I write mostof the email newsletter.
My ghostwriter writes, like, thesummary of the video I put out.
(13:24):
My ghostwriter also puts outTikTok and Instagram posts
because those platforms aren'treally focused on community
building. It's more just theactual video. It's not the text.
So I'm very particular to makesure that my voice comes
through, and I'm very particularon who writes it for me.
I'm very fortunate. The girl whoactually does my ghostwriting,
who works for my content companyor my buddy's content company,
(13:47):
She's like BFFs of my wife.Like, they grew up together. K.
So it's like a really smallworld, but she's an amazing
writer and really writes like Ido, which is incredibly
important, which, you know, wecan dive into about tone and
stuff like that from a businessperspective.
But for me, I try to make sure Icontrol the platforms that,
like, are like, you have to havetone and knowledge of the
market, which for me is Twitterand LinkedIn. So I always
(14:09):
control my Twitter and LinkedIn.We have another guy that does
part time stuff for my YouTubebecause he does all the
thumbnails and curation of it. Ihave a video editor, so 3
people. 3 people.
And then and then we pull infractional video people
depending on what the projectis.
Rhona Pierce (14:22):
Cool.
Taylor Desseyn (14:23):
Yep. Yep.
Rhona Pierce (14:24):
Very, very cool. Have you faced any challenges
in, like, building yourcommunity and, like, creating
content?
Taylor Desseyn (14:31):
Yeah. I mean, a lot of challenges. Right? I
mean, I think experimenting whatworks. I mean, if if you see
some of my old stuff, it'sawful.
And, I think I posted a video onTwitter the other day.
Everyone's like, you don't lookthat bad. And I was like, I
think I look awful. I think thebiggest challenge is is you
can't do this for the likes andfollower count. You just can't.
Like, I've stopped looking atanalytics a long time ago, and I
would say that for businesses.And I sold that to Gun. Io, and
(14:53):
they were very appreciative. Iwas like, listen, we can't look
at analytics for, like, the 1styear. And so, like, everything's
gotta be organic.
It's about building if you getcaught up if you let data lead
your content strategy, you'renot building community. I'm a
say that again. If if you focuson data, you're not building
community. Right? What I mean bythat is if if you let the data
dictate on how you post, you'renot gonna be posting relevant
(15:14):
stuff that your community wantsto listen to because data shows
a lagging indicator, not aforward indicator.
Right? And so so when it comesto content, you gotta be
constantly listening. How do Ilisten? I live on Twitter.
Right?
I literally have TweetDeck open247. I follow a bunch of
developer blogs. I follow abunch of developer podcasts.
(15:34):
Right? I follow a bunch ofconferences.
I follow a bunch of quoteunquote tech influencers. Right?
To try to keep, like, updatedand listen and follow the
industry because I'm not in theindustry. Right? Like, you gotta
remember, I'm a recruiter thatis wolf in sheep's clothing.
Right? And I'm very aware ofthat, so I take my role
seriously to basically be like,listen. Before I speak, I need
(15:54):
to know the industry. Right? Iwent out on a limb today and
posted about back endengineering and AI.
It was very aggressive, verytechie for me. Fortunately, it
was well received, but it'sbecause I've listened and I've
observed before making posts.And so I think the biggest
challenge is is I always wannagrow faster. I always wanna put
out more interesting content.But what I've realized is this
(16:15):
thing's a journey.
It's like going to the gym.You're not gonna get in shape
overnight. Your content, yourcommunity is not gonna get
better or grow overnight either.
Rhona Pierce (16:22):
Yeah. And and I think the difference that we
have as recruiters, as TAprofessionals in creating
content and why what you said isso important. It's not about
likes and follows and stuff likethat. It's about building
community because it goes backto traditional recruiting.
People want to work and they'regonna go with people that they
trust.
(16:43):
Just your content isn't gonnabuild trust. It's building that
community behind your contentthat builds that trust. And at
the end of the day, you're doingit to recruit. Right? You're not
doing it to be an influencer.
Right.
Taylor Desseyn (16:55):
Yeah. And it is interesting. You know, I I hate
the word influencer. You know? Ihate the word content creator.
It's so funny. I I went to thedentist yesterday, and they're
like, so what do you do? And Iwas like, I was like, I
literally can say recruiter orcontent creator, and I hate both
words. And so so for me, yeah,again, I think, like, you have
to want to help people, and thebest way to help people is to
(17:18):
give back at scale throughcontent. Yes.
Rhona Pierce (17:21):
That reminded me of your video that you did a few
days ago or was yesterday about,like, what you do and explaining
it
Taylor Desseyn (17:28):
to your
Rhona Pierce (17:28):
mom when she asked. I was like, I need I need
to
Taylor Desseyn (17:31):
do one of these. All the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. No. I explained it to mymom. Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (17:37):
I explained it to her, and she's like, so you're
an influencer? No. Let's not usethat word to describe me.
Taylor Desseyn (17:42):
Well, we've we've gotten to the point. It
was really funny. And listen,I'm super blessed. I don't say
this to brag, but, like, my wifeeven's gotten to the point now
where if somebody comes to her,like, so my wife's a
photographer and a commercialphotographer. She's on set right
now at a week long photo shootfor doing some product stuff.
And one of the managers on set,their son is trying to get into
(18:03):
software development. And mywife was so funny. She she
humbles me. I love her to death,but she keeps me in check. And
she but she did say she goes,listen.
She was actually my husband's,influencer in the software
engineering space. And for herto say that, I was like,
alright. Thank you. Butbasically, like but it was
really cool. We were at Mother'sDay lunch on Sunday, and the guy
that served tables for us knowsme through my content, through
(18:26):
career advice stuff.
So really cool to be able to goout. I've started to get that
more Nashville, and it's it'sreally humbling, but it also
makes me more motivated, and itputs more responsibility. Like,
people are watching, and and Itake that very seriously.
Rhona Pierce (18:40):
Yeah. And that's something very important to keep
in mind as recruiters, as we'recreating content. It's for job
search. That's a life changingsituation in anyone's life.
Like, and it's a hugeresponsibility what you're
saying, what you're putting outthere because it's potentially
impacting someone's livelihood.
Taylor Desseyn (19:02):
Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
Rhona Pierce (19:03):
How do you decide, like, what type of content
resonates best with yourcommunity? Because you do all of
these things. How and you don'tlook at metrics. So how do you
decide, like, okay. This is theone that works the best, this
type?
Taylor Desseyn (19:17):
Again, it's it's listening to the market. Right?
So the content I put out todaythat's doing very well on
LinkedIn is around back endengineering. And so what I did
is, like, I was like, alright.So it's kind of a twofold.
So the so I created this post,and I talked about how AI and
machine learning are gonna fuelmore back end engineers and that
there's not enough back endengineers right now because
everybody went front end overthe years. So I pulled this so
(19:38):
to kinda get you in my brain tosee how I create a post. So I
was like, well, I was like,well, first off so main thing is
is I tease my topics throughTwitter. So Twitter is a brain
dump for me. I tweet everything.
Right? And I probably so people,like, try to play the game and
get paid by Twitter, which Iget. And so they tweet less and
they try to give hot takes orthey try to give, like it's more
(20:00):
of a scarcity mindset. Set.That's not me.
I tweet everything. I tweetprobably 15, 20 times a day. I
never get a ton of impressions.But what I do is I experiment
with the content that works.Right?
So the post I made today aboutLinkedIn, I made a post
yesterday about back endengineering and how people need
to focus on that. That did verywell. A lot of great
conversations. Like, okay. Sothis is good.
So then I expanded on myLinkedIn post a little bit to
(20:23):
make it a little bit more forLinkedIn, not quite as short
form as Twitter. And I was like,alright. What are some other
data points I can pull from myexperience? I remember
recruiting React when Reactfirst came out and companies
were like, like, if you couldspell React, you get you got
hired. And so I was like,alright, well, I'm gonna put
that into my post because it'smy experience, and it's what
worked on Twitter yesterday.
And so the 2 come together tomake a really meaningful post on
(20:46):
LinkedIn. So that's what I do.Again, it's I grew up playing
drums. I moved to Nashville todo music to play drums. I've
taught drums for a long time.
Sometimes with drums, you eitherhave it or you just don't. And I
think a lot with contentcreation is kinda that way. You
either kinda get it or youdon't. And so I can tell you how
I do it, but to me, it's likeany sport. Right?
(21:10):
I play ice hockey. We won ourchampionships last night. Shout
out. Very excited about that.When I go out on the ice, I
don't think.
I just do. If you play football,you don't think about where your
hand like, when I play hockeyI'm not even gonna try to do
football. I've never playedfootball. I was a band nerd.
But, like, you know, like like,play hockey.
Like, when I get the hockeystick, I don't think or the puck
on my stick, I don't think,okay. The puck's on my stick. I
(21:30):
gotta skate forward. I gottalook up. I gotta pass the the
offensive guy on my left.
I don't think that. It's justit's fluid, and that's the way
it is with me with content. Butthat's probably the best way to
break down on how I think aboutposts.
Rhona Pierce (21:43):
No. That that totally makes sense. So talking
a little bit about the thesourcing aspect of it, do you
find that people in yourcommunities recommend each other
for opportunities?
Taylor Desseyn (21:55):
What do you mean by that?
Rhona Pierce (21:56):
So you have a Discord. You have people on just
followers. When you tweet abouta job or something like that, do
you find that they share itorganically that they tell other
people about it?
Taylor Desseyn (22:09):
Yeah. So, I mean, I'm I think in this
market, I think it's afascinating time, especially for
recruiters that that listen tothis. I I think you have such an
amazing opportunity to shareyour jobs on social like like,
when I was a traditionalrecruiter and at my last company
and I started to train the teamon how to put out content, the
easiest content you could putout as a recruiter is what job
you're working on right now.Like, post it. It'll spread like
(22:31):
wildfire.
Why? Because people genuinelywanna help people right now
because the market sucks. Itjust does. Like, let's not put a
sugarcoat on it. I'm not goingto be the recruiter.
It's like, everything's good.No. It's actually probably
gotten a little worse in thelast, like, 45 days based off
some data I've been seeing. Ithink it's finally starting to
come out that the government maybe giving some false data around
job stuff. Like things arestarting to get a little weird
(22:53):
and I don't like it becausebetween me and you, I thought
we'd be out of this mess at thispoint.
So for example, Prime is April.I have a video post that I did
that my video guy edited that Iwas gonna put out today, and I
listened to it. And it's mesaying the market's getting
better. That was, like, 6 monthsago, but I'm not gonna post it
now because it's not. That'swhat makes it so difficult.
But, yeah, going back to puttingout content, like, jobs, like,
(23:14):
everybody wants to help eachother with jobs. And so if
you're listless and you're arecruiter, I think the best way
to get because I get a lot ofrecruiters. I'm sure you do too.
Like, how do I get started in mycontent journey? Just just post
a job.
Just once a day, just post a jobyou're working on. But give some
context. Right? If you'reworking on a developer, don't
say, hey. I have a JavaScriptdeveloper that pays 90 k.
Say, hey. I have a JavaScriptdeveloper that specializes in
React and Node. Need that'spaying a 150 ks. You really need
(23:36):
some AWS with some Lambdaservices. It's fully remote, but
they want this person like, tella story.
And if you can start getting inthat habit, you're gonna be able
to source candidates from theinternet. Like my candidates
that I find from the internetare way better than anything
you're gonna find on the jobboards.
Rhona Pierce (23:52):
Yes. A 100 a 1000000 percent on that. I don't
think I've sourced from a jobwhere I'm not recruiting
actively right now, but I don'tlast year I was or 2022 I was. I
don't
Taylor Desseyn (24:03):
think
Rhona Pierce (24:03):
I source from any job boards. No.
Taylor Desseyn (24:05):
It's
Rhona Pierce (24:05):
all online. It's all all that. So looking ahead,
what are your thoughts on, like,the future of online talent
communities?
Taylor Desseyn (24:15):
I think community building is
everything. And I think I mean,I'm gonna say this. If you're a
recruiting firm and you're notfocused on building community in
the Discord through emailnewsletters, through virtual
events, you are going to be leftbehind. Because now you could be
a $1,000,000,000 organizationlistening to this right now. And
if you are, thank you forlistening.
I appreciate it. But, like, yougotta focus on community. Like,
(24:39):
people want to feel a part of abrand, and people wanna feel a
part of a community these days.And, like, there's been a huge
shift. There's been a huge shiftin sales.
Right? Everything's contentfocused now. Everything is top
of the funnel awareness and kindof massaging. It's this terrible
term, but massaging that personthrough the process to get a
sale. Right?
I saw a great TikTok the otherday from a from a CMO and she
(25:01):
was like, long gone are thedays. If you wanna make more
sales, make more sales calls.She goes, you wanna make more
sales, put up more content.Right? And so I think every
recruiting organization rightnow needs to be focused on
building content, creatingcontent.
I wanna give a shout out toSpyGlass Partners. Some of my
old team is there that Imanaged, and they are encouraged
to have a live show podcast.Like, every person is
(25:23):
encouraged. And so 2 of my oldcolleagues, shout to Sloan,
shout to Joseph Jewell, youguys, and Sloan Bartley, you
guys are the greatest. They'veboth I've been very proud of
them watching their contentjourney.
They've both started morningshows and turned into podcast
form. And I think everyrecruiting organization needs at
least one. I think I've pitchedthis to other recruiting
companies in the past. Dependingon your specialties, I think you
(25:45):
need to have a podcast perspecialty. So if you do
cybersecurity, you need to havea cybersecurity podcast.
If you have an accountingpractice, you need an accounting
podcast. Right? And it's veryeasy. You just interview people
within your community based offtopics that community would
wanna know. Right?
So, again, I'm not anaccountant, but I'm sure there's
topics that accountants arepassionate about right now. I
don't know what they are, butI'm sure they're out there. And
(26:07):
so I think moving forward, Ithink every company needs a
Discord. Every person needs to Ithink marketing teams are
different now. They need to lookdifferent instead of hiring
traditional marketers.
I think you hire content teamsnow. You hire video editors. You
hire copywriters. You hirepeople who literally just press
post on a post. Right?
Like, that's what it looks likemoving forward. I think the
companies that can trulyunderstand that are gonna be
(26:29):
able to move so much faster andhave such better candidate
quality for your clients.
Rhona Pierce (26:34):
Yeah. And for those listening, I have 2
episodes where I spoke to 2different organizations doing
podcasting to attract talent. Itblew my mind how easy it is for
them to do it, the topics.Because like you said, maybe you
don't know about a contenttopics. But if you're recruiting
for accounting, you should knowwhat the things they're
(26:56):
interested in.
The podcast is really their topstrategy for attracting
Taylor Desseyn (27:01):
That's it.
Rhona Pierce (27:02):
Talent.
Taylor Desseyn (27:03):
That's it.
Rhona Pierce (27:03):
I was it blew my mind. So I'll link those also in
the show notes so that peoplecan see. So we've talked a lot
about online. But now thatpeople are back into, like,
going to conferences and andthings like that, how do you
think that in person is playinga role in this community
building?
Taylor Desseyn (27:22):
In person is everything. Right? So so if you
wanna look top of the funnel,bottom of the funnel in terms of
marketing terms, top of thefunnel is your content online.
Bottom of the funnel is shakinghands and kissing babies. Right?
And so right now, like, again,if I had it my way, if I built
my own recruiting agency, right,the way I wanna build it, I
would hire I would build acontent team, not a marketing
team, and I would have somebodylead the content team. And any
(27:46):
event we go to, I would bring avideo person to document it. My
success has exponentiallyincreased over the last 3 or 4
years because I've had theopportunity with the companies
I've worked for that havesupported me, and shout out Gun.
Io for supporting me in this,they allowed me to bring a video
person with me. And we capturemoments, we capture
(28:09):
conversations, we edit it, wegive it back at scale.
And that does multiple things.It it like, social proof is
everything right now. Like,people to be trusted, and we all
know this in the recruitingspace, you have to, like, break
bread with your people to beaccepted with your people. And I
think, really, I think a lot ofrecruiters miss out on that.
They wanna sit at their desk.
(28:29):
They wanna pound out a bunch ofcalls. They wanna be done for
the day, which is fine. I know aton of recruiters at my last
company. That's all their jobwas. They never went to
conferences.
They never put out content, andthey made way more money than
me. But that's not what I want.I really want that community,
and I will tell you this. Like,going to conferences is
everything. Shaking hands iseverything.
(28:49):
And and I think recruiting firmsright now need a budget for your
recruiters to go to conferences,not just sponsor. And this is a
whole another thing. Justsponsoring a conference is not
enough these days. Again, theplaybook has shifted because of
COVID. And, like, the sooner arecruiting organization
obviously, I'm very passionateabout this right now.
It's between the iced coffee andthe little sleep because I was
up last night. You know, again,it's just it's just so, so
(29:13):
important.
Rhona Pierce (29:14):
Yeah. It really is. And last thing, I also come
from a background of talentmarketplaces. I really believe
in them. I real believe in thedifferences between recruiting
agencies, which I'm notknocking, but I know that talent
marketplaces bring a lot morevalue, especially because of
this community building aspectthat they have and how quickly
(29:38):
they can fill roles.
Is there anything you wanna sayabout Gun. Io or how people can
contact you and learn more aboutyour talent marketplace?
Taylor Desseyn (29:47):
Yeah. I mean, I'm on all socials, t dessin, t
d e s s e y n. I'm on everysocial media platform but
Snapchat. Reach out to me at,this is your taylordessen@gunio.
But, yeah, again, just just hitme up.
We'd love to chat. And, like Isaid, I'm constantly online, so
you all always give me.
Rhona Pierce (30:04):
Perfect. And I'll link in the show notes as well.
So thank you so much for thisconversation today, Taylor. I
think it's gonna be great foreveryone who's wanting to get
started with content andbuilding communities.
Taylor Desseyn (30:17):
Love it. Thank you.
Rhona Pierce (30:19):
Wow. Taylor shared a ton of great information.
Turns out, you don't have tocreate the same type of content
every other recruiter iscreating in order to build a
talent community. Be sure toconnect with Taylor. His contact
info is in the show notes.
Speaking of content, next week,I'm chatting with Joel Lalje. If
you haven't heard of him, you'vedefinitely been living under a
(30:40):
rock. Joel's content iseverywhere. Subscribe to
throughout the playbook whereveryou get your podcasts so that
you don't miss out on ourconversation. It's a free
masterclass in content creationfor recruiters.
Thanks for listening, and I'llchat with you next week.
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