#15: Creating High-Impact Recruiting Content with Joel Lalgee

Episode Transcript
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Joel Lalgee (00:00):
A lot of times, we think that we have to
consistently come up with newtopics and new ideas. And when I
looked at people within thebusiness to business space,
people like Gary Vee and AlexHormozi, Cody Sanchez. One of
the thing I've noticed is theyactually kinda say the same
stuff a lot.

Rhona Pierce (00:20):
That's Joel Lalgee. But if you've ever been
on the job search side of theInternet, you probably already
knew that. Joel has gained over500,000 followers by creating
thousands of videos over thepast 2 years. Today, he's
breaking down thecounterintuitive secrets to
creating recruiting content thatactually works.

I think a great recruiting content, you
understand your candidates oryour clients and what they care
about, and that's what you'reposting about.

From mastering repetition to leveraging your
expertise, Joel shares how tocreate content that attracts
candidates, impresses hiringmanagers, and establishes you as
a trusted voice in recruiting.Let's dive into my conversation
with Joel. So you've built anincredible presence on social
media. You've got, I think thelast time I checked around,

(01:10):
500,000 followers across, like,your platforms, and you're known
for, like, authentic andengaging content. What inspired
you to start creating contentalongside your recruiting stuff
that you do?

Yeah. So I don't know if anybody out there
remembers this or if youremember this, but there was a
time on LinkedIn where there wasno video. And then suddenly, I
think it was 2017, they startedto introduce video on a
platform. And I actually had afriend who was one of the first
people who started producingvideos on LinkedIn, and she
would just go viral. Because,you know, sometimes when they

(01:48):
introduce new features, theyreally push it.
And so she went really viral.And so I was like, Oh, that's
really interesting. I don't youknow, and that, in my head, I
was like, maybe I'll do somevideo one day and just went back
and forth in my head for likeyears years. The resonating
message from people with videowas, if you can create video,
that's good and engaging. Youhave to reach out to people,

(02:11):
they'll come to you.
And being a recruiter on theagency side, full desk
recruiter, a large portion of myjob was selling people. A large
part of your portion of sales isreaching out to people. A large
part of reaching out to peopleis getting rejected. And I don't
like getting rejected. It hurts.
It's like the worst part of thejob. So this message around, if

(02:33):
you can create a brand thatpeople like, or people trust,
you don't have to do thatanymore. So that that's really
what inspired me to do it. And Ithink on top of that, when I
started doing it, you know, Iwas like, I had that inspiration
moment. And when I started doingit, I just quickly realized
number 1, I really enjoy theprocess.
And then number 2, I thoughtthat time I was pretty good at

(02:55):
it. And I was creative. And nowlooking back at some of my
original content, that was notthe case. But I believed I was,
and that was enough to keep megoing.

Yeah. That's always a struggle when, when I
look back at, like, my firstvideos, I'm like, can we

keep you

off in or not?

I know. But luckily fires. With LinkedIn, they you
don't go viral. Right? Rightaway.
So I feel for people who makeone video and go viral, and
then, like, that's gonna be aworst video ever. And now I'm
gonna remember you by.

I know. Every time I see a cringe video, I'm like,
I need to create more to pushthat down, like further away so
no one sees it. So talking aboutvideo, I read a post of yours
the other day that you'vecreated 5,000 videos in the last
2 years. That is a lot. How doyou find the topics for your
videos?

I'll start by saying, I think when we think of
the topics for videos asindividuals, a lot of times we
think that we have toconsistently come up with new
topics and new ideas. And when Ilooked at people who
particularly within the businessto business space, so outside of
the entertainment arena, so I'mnot talking about YouTubers like

(04:09):
Mr. Beast, or like, you know,Logan Paul, Jake Paul, those
guys. When I look at people inthe b to b space who are big
name, big creators, I thinkpeople like Gary Vee, I know
like Alex Hormozi has has joinedthe scene, Cody Sanchez. You
have these like influencers andone of the thing I've noticed
and I just noticed with lookingat a lot of these people is they

(04:29):
actually can say the same stuffa lot.
And they repeat, and they justsay it in different ways.
Sometimes they even say the sameexact thing. And I think really
quickly, I realized the reasonthat you can do this is because
in our mind, we think all thatthat person's watching that day
is our video. And that they'resomehow gonna remember it. What
I found is we don't reallyremember individual videos from

(04:53):
people per se, we just as awhole know them.
And so my topics like and withthat being said, doesn't mean
you just have to have one topic,but I've built my topics around
recruitment, career, and thencorporate. And so and then, you
know, if I was to break thosetopics down, I'd say corporate,
we might have remote work, mighthave like flexibility, trust

(05:15):
within the workplace likecorporate politics. Maybe
there's some advice in there.And then career, or just sorry,
job search and career. We'relooking at resumes, like
interview tips, and thenrecruitment, we might look at
ghosting of best practices orsome humorous types of ways to
work with hiring managers.
So kinda like to have broadtopics and then break those

(05:35):
those topics down into smallersegments. But I do not stray
away from those topics. With theexception of on LinkedIn, I'll
occasionally post things aboutmy personal life occasionally.
But if you look at any of myvideo platforms, I don't really
talk a lot about my personallife. Maybe on Instagram, I do
some stories personally, becausepeople seem to like those, but I

(05:56):
just stick with those topics.
And then I say a lot of similarthings. And then just try and do
say those things in differentways. But that helps with the
creation process, because thenI'm not constantly feeling that
pressure to reinvent the wheelor come up with something new.
That can be a challenge. Right?
Because if you're 10 videos inand you're feeling like, oh,
I've got to talk about somethingnew, that you have limited If

(06:18):
you've you've niche down and youhave topics, then you there's
just gonna be limitations withthat.

Yeah. I always tell people when I talk to them
about, like, this and they askme about how to get ideas, it's
like the best videos, your bestcontent is actually the stuff
that you're absolutely bored oftalking. Like, you know, you're
doing good when you yourself arelike, oh my gosh. I have to talk
about this again. But the truthis no one remembers it.
Really. Like, even people whowatch all of your videos or

(06:47):
everything, you say the samething in a different way. And
everyone's like, oh, I lovethis. I love this. So

yeah. We really overestimate the impact of our
own content a lot of the times.And again, the most one of the
most common things I get is, Oh,yeah, I've seen some of your
content. I like that meme youshared the other day. And I'm
like, you've reduced all of my 5years of work content to a meme.
But that that's just the natureof the world that we live in.
And it's you're not justbattling against or I shouldn't

(07:15):
say battling because I don'tlike to use that terminology.
But you're not just out there onan island by yourself. You're
competing against the otherpeople on the platform for
attention. You're you'recompeting against Netflix,
right?
You can be in against the news,you can be in against, LinkedIn
games, LinkedIn news, there's alot of competition for
attention. And because of that,you know, I think about

(07:37):
advertising, you know, withthis, it's like, well, Toyota
has the same commercial, they'llplay the same commercial for 2
months straight. Is a reason forthat. And it's because they're
anticipating that people aren'tgoing to really remember it, and
they need to reinforce theideas. And so understanding that
I think it takes off a lot ofpressure, as well.
And it's just helpful to knowthat that's one of the big
things that holds people back,right? It's just what am I going

(08:00):
to talk about? So I thinkrelieving yourself of that is
huge. And then the otherquestion then is like, well,
when do you get the time forthat? And again, it's it's you
get better, the more videos youget like it at first, it took me
a long time.
And then, you know, video 3,000,you get 3,000 into it. Now I'm
at a point where I can I cancreate 10 videos in 20 minutes,

(08:22):
because there's not as much regoing back and editing? I know
what I'm gonna say I say it. Andthat's it. Whereas at the
beginning, it was a little bitfor a 5 second video, I might
spend 20 minutes making it.
And so it then that kind ofbecomes a cheat code because the
more you do, the better you get,and you can't skip that process
either.

Yeah. So what's can you walk us through your
content creation process?

Yeah. I can try. I would say the first thing to
think about, there was a timewhere I would sit down and plan
things out. And this way, rarelyin in my LinkedIn journey, which
is where I started, I would havetopics picked up each day. Now,
I'm the type of person who andyou think you got to know the
type of person you are, I'm thetype person who I'm not a

(09:08):
planner, by nature.
And there's actually something Ienjoy about not knowing what I'm
going to post, which plays intothe fact of why I enjoy doing
things. So a lot of things arein the moment. But at the
beginning, it was very much I amgonna post a video on this topic
on maybe cold emailing Canvas.Now I'm going to post an image
about, you know, my kid. Now I'mgoing to do a poll on this

(09:29):
topic.
So I'd have like a brief map setout. That's how I did it earlier
on. Now, it is very much and Iagain, now to give some context
to this too, this is my fulltime job. So I don't have any
other job. This is literallywhat I do.
So now it is very much like I'lljust have an hour of time in the

(09:50):
morning, our time in theafternoon. And usually what I'm
doing now is like reacting to alot of things or like getting a
feel for like, what are peopletalking about what's in the
news, and then finding things Ihave opinions on thoughts on,
and I'm just creating things inthe moment. So it's gone from
planning, and, you know, havinglike a framework, which I think

(10:10):
you need to have at thebeginning to keep yourself
accountable to now it's verymuch in in the moment. So I'm
also huge on repurposingcontent. And so when you look at
like, just how many platformsI'm on, I mean, I'm on pretty
much every platform you canthink of.
But I've I've learned whichplatforms are interchangeable

(10:30):
with content, which ones aren't.And because of that, I might say
one thing on LinkedIn a certainway and then say the same thing
on threads, but in a way in athreads way. And then I might
take that. Right, and they couldbe 2 written posts and then make
a video on what I just wroteabout. So I've gotten really
just a good understanding of howto say the same things in the

(10:53):
way that people in there thatare going to respond on the
platform.
And understanding like, hey, wewrite something, you can
literally do a video on what youwrote. And so that's gonna how
that's my thought process. So Imight have a topic that I really
am passionate about. And maybeon LinkedIn, maybe I do a 2
liner that says, you know, becareful who you trust at work,
you might get burned. Okay, sothat's 2 line.

(11:14):
And then I can tweet thatbecause it's so short, I can put
that on threads, Maybe messaround with the verbiage a
little bit. But then I could doa video on that and say, guys,
you know, be careful who youtrust at work and tell a little
bit of a story around it withthe video. I think when I think
of content creation, it's likehave the topic, understand each
platform, and then just kind ofcreate similar content, which

(11:35):
kind of goes back to what wesaid with with that, you know,
with the earlier point of justhaving those topics established
and knowing what you're going totalk about. The last thing I'll
say with that is I think it justtakes time to get to that point.
And I think this is a partthat's really hard is like, you
can't just start out and belike, well, this is it.
This is my message. You almosthave to start speaking and

(11:58):
putting yourself out there tofigure out, like, your voice and
what you're about. I think somepeople, if you're starting out
of nowhere, it's gonna be likethat. Maybe if you've done
public speaking or you've done,like, leadership training, you
might have that a little bitmore thought out. But I think
for a lot of people, you kind offigure out that voice and what
those topics are throughactually just creating and doing

(12:18):
it.
And so it might start out oneway and then you see it evolves
and it changes over time aswell. So I don't know if you
experienced that as well.

Yeah Yeah I've experienced that because it's
like you Like you said, I I havekind of similar way of doing it
like you as far as I have mytopics, and I just know that
these are the 4 or 5 things thatI talk about. And I wish I had,
like, a a calendar full with,like, I've got 2 weeks, 3 months
full of foot. No. I don't. So,yeah, you just get used to it.

(12:50):
But I think the most importantthing that you've said and that
I want, and I always say, and Iwant everyone to remember is the
more you do it, the better youget. And then you have that
moment when you're like, okay,this is me. This is okay. This
is online Rona. It's the sameRona as real life Rona, but this
is online Rona's voice.

(13:10):
Because when I do this, this iswhat works. I know exactly what
types of post are the ones thatmy audience resonates with. I
know my emails that work. I,like, I know it. And I
occasionally try other thingsbecause I'm just human and I
wanna try other things.
You just get to a point whereyou know. But that happens after
doing it over and over and overagain.

100%. Yeah. And it's it's so interesting because
there's a lot of differentfactors because I do think
there's an online persona thatkind of happens because it's a
one way communication. But Ithink the authenticity comes in.
And I'm seeing this a lot more.
And and again, to give somecontext, like I started doing I

(13:53):
started probably really gettinginto content creation about 6
months before COVID, which iswhen a lot of people jumped on.
So I was kinda like be I waslike early on kind of before
that wave of people that camein, which already kinda gave me
an advantage because I had alittle bit, I was already a
little bit more established. Butone thing I hadn't done is I
hadn't really done networking inreal life a lot. And in fact,

(14:17):
when I would go to networkingevents, I was really
uncomfortable at the timebecause I always had that
pressure of selling and beganbeing a recruiter. What you do?
Tell me about your business. Andyou get your sales manager. If
you're gonna go to this event,you better come back with 7
leads that we're gonna turn intobusiness. And because of that, I
just had, like, a phobia ofevents because I've just
genuinely enjoy meeting people.But I genuinely enjoy meeting

(14:39):
people most when I don't have anagenda, and it's so hard to
balance that when you're insales.
So I say all that because nowwhen I go to events, like I went
to event an event last night,like in a small dinner, and, you
know, it's definitely thedumbest person in the room,
which is always where you wannabe. Like, that's that's when you
know you're in a good room whenyou're just like, wow, these
people have amazing experience.I'm like learning a lot, seeing

(15:01):
different perspectives. But wewere talking about I was talking
about some of the messages thatresonate with people with my
content. And I think in thosesettings now, I'm seeing, like,
there's definitely a way to docontent.
And there's a persona that'skind of out there. But I think
when people meet you, thatauthenticity is if there's a

(15:24):
really vast difference betweenyour message and what you're
saying and how you communicate.Or for example, if you're like,
hey, I really care about peopleand people are amazing. And
you're putting all thisinspirational stuff. Then when
you meet people, if you are kindof just not nice, so you're not
asking questions, you're notengaging, then that can cause a
huge issue.
So but it's like balancing that.And then it's also going okay,

(15:47):
well, I have an audience here.And what I found is like
audiences shift and like, what'sgoing on shifts as well. So you
almost have to, you got to caterto the audience to a certain
degree and then stay authentic.And, you know, and that that's
hard.
It's such a hard balance. And,you know, let's face it when it
can when you talk about like,virality, and you talk about

(16:07):
things that are like massappeal. This is a trap that a
lot of people on LinkedIn fallinto, They fall into the mass
appeal and which is, you know,we've all seen those posts like
it could be something like, youknow, people don't leave jobs,
they leave managers. Everyonegoes, yes, thousands of people.
And that you can be tricked intothinking that that's building
like a robust brand, but it'snot.

(16:30):
And so it's again, even that isa balance because you you're
managing, like, the dopamine andall of all of these things.

So Yeah. Because you're human. You want to feel
like you it feels great to getthose likes and stuff. But then
when you look back, it's like Isay it to myself. It's like, I
don't want to go viral becausemy post that, like, a lot of
people see.
Then you you go, like, comingdown from that

Yeah.

To get back to your your regular content and
the audience that you want. And,I mean, we're doing this for a
reason. Right? You and I do thisfull time. We're doing it for a
reason.
Like, there's goals. It's notjust likes and stuff like that.
It's like I can't pay mymortgage likes.

Which I think you can to a certain degree. But and
what I mean by that is likelike, if I'm going to a brand,
for example, and I say to them,hey, I got millions of views and
I got millions. Like, I'm gonnabe able to charge more for
certain things. You know,obviously, with, like, speaking,
if you've got big following, youcan start to leverage things. So
I think that because I hearpeople say that a lot.

(17:31):
And it's like the likes don'tpay the bills. And it's like,
well, I think it can if you knowwhat you're doing with it. But
to your point, there aredefinitely a lot of people and
it's usually not in the b2bspace. You also usually exploded
some at some point with notreally a plan or an intention.
That's where the likes don't paythe bills.
And I think on LinkedIn, forexample, which I do actually

(17:53):
think that like, that's a hardplatform to monetize if you
haven't, like, really thought itout or, like, you don't have the
strategy behind it or you you'renot having conversations. And
out of all the platforms, Ithink that's it's it's the most
lucrative if you can figure outhow to convert those likes into
brand deals, and you can getinto that world. But it's also

(18:14):
the one where I see most peoplewith big followings. They're not
making any money at all. And itkind of goes back to what we you
said where it's like, who isyour actual like, what's the
audience like that's gonna driveyou either business that's not
to do with content, or if youare looking to be like an
influencer and do brand deals?
What's the audience you'rebuilding that brands are going

(18:34):
to want to reach? And and a lotof people aren't thinking that.
They just think, woah, I've gota 100,000 followers. Well, who
who are those 100,000 followers?And like

Exactly. Because when you have those
conversations with brands, theyask you that question.

They always do. They always do. And then they're
gonna expect results. And I'veseen it. I'm not gonna obviously
name any names at all.
But I've I've talked to foundersand people who have worked with
influencers who have really,really big, bigger phones me, I
got like 200,000 followers on mypersonal, like 50 on my business
page, which that's a lot. That'sa lot of we're talking about

(19:10):
250,000 people. It's an enormousamount. But they're talking to
people who have biggerfollowings than me. And then
they try and they do like, somesort of like promotion, and
there's no conversion there.
And I think the thing that Iactually see the most, which is
not talked about enough is whenyou go to their video section,
if you got 2 videos or 3 videos,you got no brand. Brand, it's

(19:32):
built through long form video,short form video, audio. It's
got to be more than just awritten post, unless you're
gonna go, you know, maybe, likea Justin Welsh. He's he's he's
probably one of the people who Ithink has done done miraculously
without doing any video content.But he's also selling like a 1,

(19:52):
you know, 99 widget almost.
That's not a scalable repeatablemodel for most people. And
again, it just has created thiswhole weird ecosystem on on
LinkedIn. But I think, like, thevideo and, like, this type of
content, this is powerfulbecause if we've only got 10
people listening right now tothis, but all of those 10 people

(20:12):
are decision makers that hold abudget, they're engaged in it.
There's a lot high likelihood,you can get a good conversion
even out of just 10 people or 40people or 50 people versus 3,000
people liking a post onLinkedIn, it's like 3 lines, but
zero substance. I'd rather Itake those 10 listeners that are
listening for hours and arereally engaged versus 3,000

(20:36):
people that just in a secondclick something and then scroll
down.

Yeah. And that and that totally applies. So most of
the people who listen to theshow are recruiters. They're not
necessarily like you and I whowanna do this full time. We're
professional content creators.
They're creating content toattract either clients

Yep.

Or candidates. So in your opinion, what makes
great recruiting content?

I think it's it's knowing if you knowing that
number 1, what's the goal.Right? Because some people, it
is just gonna be candidates.It's great. Some people, it's
gonna be clients.
So knowing that ICP knowing whatthey care about. And ICP, what
is that? It's like, ideal clientprofile or whatever. So and that
could still work withcandidates. Like, are you I
think you can think about it inthe in the same exact way, but

(21:22):
knowing what they care about.
So when I train people on what'sthe type of content you want to
post about, I've changed my mindover this over the years,
because it used to be very muchlike, you know, post some
personal stuff, post somesolutions to their problems, and
then talk about some of youryour kind of wins that you've
had, which I think is actually afine model. But the the problem

(21:43):
was it was missing one keycomponent. And that's the news.
I think this is an area thatrecruiters, they miss out
because when people come to arecruiter, it's for two reasons.
For job seekers, they want toknow, do you have any jobs for
me?
And then for the clients, theywant the biggest question you
have to get as recruiters. Tellme about the market. What's
going on in the market? So Ithink a great recruiting

(22:05):
content, you understand yourcandidates or your clients and
what they care about, and that'swhat you're posting about. So if
let's say I'm recruitingsoftware engineers, and that
someone who does really good jobwith this is a guy called Taylor
Dessen.
If you don't know Taylor, gocheck out Taylor. That's like,
we've always done so good. Andhe, you know, gets invited to,
like, tech conferences to speakas a recruiter, which is like,

(22:26):
who how does that even happen?When you look at his content,
he's not really focused ontrying to go viral or likes.
He's like telling a story,consistency, he's built a
community of tech people, but hetalks a lot about stuff that
they care about.
And so he's talking about thenews and talking about how's AI
going to impact thesetechnologies? And how can you,
you know, leverage more money inan interview? So just think

(22:48):
about the people that you'retrying to reach, what do they
care about? And then you want tobe that go to person. And it's a
long game.
This is not like a short game.It's a long game. Just like any
other relationship is a longgame. Relationship doesn't
happen in an hour like becausepeople be like, well, what
about, you know, like a phonecall? And I think, Okay, well,
the phone call isn't arelationship, like multiple

(23:10):
phone calls over a period oftime of meeting real life over
years is a relationship.
And it's that same idea withsocial media. It's like you're
creating a relationship withyour audience over time, a
longer time, but it's talkingabout things they care about,
versus what you think that theycare about or what you care
about. And I think that's thestage that people don't always,

(23:32):
they don't always get to thatpoint. Now, if you look at my
content, the way that I do thisis I do a lot of humor. And then
one is because I just like tolaugh.
And I think I'm funny. And like,when I meet people, like, I
usually am like joke, the jokes.I've always been the jokester.
But number 2, I'm like, manrecruiters, like, you gotta have
a sick sense of humor to be arecruiter. So they all resonate

(23:53):
with it.
And they just resonate with theunpredictability of people in
our job. And so when you look atmy content, that's what I've
thought about. And that was fromyears of creating content, and
then realizing why I took a pageout of Adam Carpia, if you guys
know Adam on on LinkedIn. Yeah.He talks a lot about from a job

(24:14):
seeker's perspective, he talks alot about the hiring process,
how screwed up it is.
I was like, I I kinda wanna belike the Adam Carpiere for
recruiters. So I'm gonna talkabout, like, I'm gonna make
content for recruiters. And Andat the time, I was recruiting
recruiters, and that's why Iwent that direction. Right? And
it's turned into something else,but that's always my advice for
people is, like, think about whothat small market is and just

(24:36):
speak to them speak to themspeak to them.
Doesn't need you don't need toappeal to everybody in the
world. But you want thatcommunity of candidates, that
industry to think of you aslike, you are one of the
recruiters that like, I respectand I follow. You do that over
the long term. That's howeverything in recruitment,
everything in sales just getseasier and easier and easier.

I I like everything you've been saying.
I've been like, yes. Yes. Yes.Because it's like, I've been
I've this week, I've had a lotof, like, workshops that I do
workshops for for companies, andI've done LinkedIn lives and
things like that about thistopic and about I've been
talking a lot about storytellingfor recruiters and how to
incorporate that into yourcontent.
And everyone's always like,well, but what do I talk about?

(25:19):
And it's like, as recruiters, wehave this information. It's so
easy. Like, what questions arepeople asking you at the end of
an interview?

Exactly.

When you say like, hey, do you have any questions
for us? Those questions turnthat stuff into content. Like
and then, one, you won't have tobe answering it over and over
again because I know as arecruiter like that. I got bored
of answering the same questionsover and over. And then it's
like, it appeals to people.
Like, if 3 people, 3 of yourcandidates ask you the same
thing, trust me, a 100 want toknow.

Write it down.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think Amy Millich, she does a good job of
that, like, on her YouTubechannel. But then this is the
other thing that happens iswhenever I bring up any kind of
content, recruiters alwaysgoing, well, someone else saying
this, someone else saying that.And I think that's because your
whole feed is recruiters becausemost of us recruiters like to
connect with other recruiters. Idon't know why it's just like

(26:13):
weird thing we do instead ofconnecting with candidates. But
we love to connect with otherrecruiters.
So our whole newsfeed is full ofAmy Miller or, you know, Andrew
Lewis or like these guys whowere just posting stuff and
you're like, look at it and gowell, they just said something
about resume. Then we need towake up to the fact that, you
know, I think I've got 800,000followers on social media. And
guess what? I go out in public,and nobody knows who the hell I

(26:36):
am. That is not I'm not acelebrity.
Because when you look atLinkedIn user base even there's
1,000,000,000 users. K. So Imight have 200,000 of them who
clicked follow at one point whoknows how engaged any of those
people are really engaged. Soit's not like if that's 200,000
people who are like, obsessedwith me. Just like Gary Vee has
5,000,000 followers, but itdoesn't mean that 5,000,000

(26:57):
people are always liking hisposts.
He has like 2,000 likes, so it'sactually a low percentage. But
my point is there and even withGary v, I talked to my neighbor
the other day. Say, hey. Yeah.Do you know who Gary v is?
No idea. And so I think you justhave to, like, put that out of
the way and go, look, I'm justgonna put good value information
and helpful information. Andyou'll be surprised that I've

(27:19):
had neighbors come up to me. Idid my neighbor. You know, I
think even I hate to say it, butI don't even know.
I can't remember her name. Shewas like, yeah. Like my husband,
like, he's been looking for ajob and he just came across your
content. It's been superhelpful. And I'm like, that is
insane.
You know, and but I could havegot sat back and go, well, I'll
just let the other people whoare putting up I'll let I'll let

(27:41):
this other guy do it. And Ithink we got to get out of that
mindset and just realize like,the other thing too, then is we
think, Oh, well, everything Iknow is simple. Oh, this is
basic information. Let me justtell you basic information is to
you who is highly valuableinformation because it's just
you deal with this stuff all thetime. You deal with the with the
resumes.

(28:01):
You deal with the hiringmanagers, the process.
Candidates don't. They only dealwith it when they're looking for
a job, which is what maybe 2 or3 times in their lifetime, if
they're, you know, if they'vegotten laid up, like, it's not
something that happens everyday. And so we can think, oh,
this is just so basic. But it'sactually not basic.
It's just stuff that you'veknown. And like anything, if you

(28:23):
do something a lot, it doesbecome basic to you. But it's
like highly valuable to otherpeople. And so I always tell
recruiters, like, keep that inmind. Like, you know, it's okay
to say the same thing as someoneelse.
Like, it's you're gonna getdifferent people respond and
some of those people be like,wow, that's mind blowing. I
never knew that. And if youwanna get confirmation, like, go
on TikTok and look at all theterrible content that's on there

(28:44):
that goes viral. It's like we weowe people this.

That that's a great thing. It's like you owe
people putting out good contentand good advice. And, also,
yeah, Amy Miller has a ton offollowers. You have a ton of
followers. But just becauseyou've talked about a topic or
Amy's talked about a topic,doesn't mean that my No.
Way of talking about the topicis different. And, also, it

(29:09):
doesn't mean that, like, I'msure I have followers who don't
follow you because that's justthe the nature of how this
works.

Look. It will exactly. And that's so I'm
saying even, like, Justin Wells,she's got he's got, like, you
know, 100 he's probably gotmillions of followers now on,
like, across these platforms.Trust me, go into a gas station
and be like, you know JustinWelch is. Oh, you know that.
I was thinking about the otherday, I was listening to, like,
an old, it was like a twistedKanye West song. And it's like,

(29:38):
I was thinking in my head, Iwas, I wonder if I went to,
like, teenagers today. You know,twisted. Is it just like, it's
like relevant back in, you know,5 when I was, you know, when I
when I was I was there, butlike, these and that's a
celebrity. You know, I think weagain, it's kind of go back to
that whole idea of like your ownindividual content, like you
think everybody's like, reallydialed in and tuned in.

(30:01):
It's like, no, probably not asmuch as you think. And, yeah,
and that's coming from someonewho is like, I looked at some of
the view time on my videos. I'mlike, oh, my gosh, this has been
viewed like, you know, daysyears worth amount of time, but
no one really knows who I am.Right? It's it's crazy.
At rec at rec fest which I'mgoing to a lot of the recruiters

(30:22):
know me which is great. But assoon as I get out of recruiter
and job search world, it's likeit's not like I can get free
sandwiches at, you know,McDonald's. Right. Don't give me
any huggups.

So another thing I've heard a lot, as far as when
I talk to people about creatingcontent, a lot of companies and
recruiters are afraid of gettingcanceled or like saying
something wrong and that canmake them canceled, especially
on video. Have you ever createdsomething that almost got you
canceled?

Yeah. I mean, look, I'm very careful with the topics
that I talk about. And, again,it's hard to get canceled over
cover letters. And so but Ithink you got to know like your
lane with things as well. And Ithink you've always got to be
able to, if you make a point,you know, this is where I like,
sometimes people will will postup just to go viral, right?
Or just because they wanna dosomething to kind of be seen.

(31:17):
And the problem is if you can'tback it up and like, kind of
defend it, if you have to,you're gonna run into issues.
And then you also like just ingeneral, you've got to
anticipate. And LinkedIn isprobably the safest of all
places in this way because, youknow, everyone's work is tied
into it. Some of these otherplatforms, you're gonna get
trolls and things like that.

(31:37):
But again, it's like, you justgot to know like, what your lane
is and what you're going to talkabout. And now look, if you feel
very, very passionate about DNI,for example, you're not like an
expert or you don't actuallylike, you just you just kind of
making statements like you'regonna say things that are gonna
resonate with some people andare gonna really not resonate

(31:58):
practitioner, you got to be ableto back it up. And you've got to
understand why you're saying theonly time ever that has actually
that I've said something whichlike people came after me on
was, funnily enough, I copy andpasted a post from TikTok and it

(32:23):
was it was just kind of like ait was a what I would consider
like kind of a hustle kind ofpost you know. So I go wake up
at 6 AM. It was just some it wassomething like that.
And a lot of people jumped onthe post about it. And at the
end of day, I just I got to apoint where I had so many
comments. I was like, you knowwhat? I'm actually just gonna
delete this and walk away. Andthat was it.

(32:44):
It was like, sometimes we createthese online worlds where it's
like we read into we just readinto things. But again, I most
of what I talk about is likecover letters, resumes,
interview advice. It's not likeI'm like taking stands on, like,
you know, politics or likesocial justice or things like
that. And sometimes peoplechallenge me in that and like,

(33:07):
well, why don't you talk aboutwhat you think and things? And
I'm like, well, that's notthat's not my platform and it's
actually not what I'm choosingto talk about.
And, I think you have to becomfortable with like not
talking about everything. And ifyou feel pressure in that way,
to me, like, that's not a reasonto post something just because
people are pressuring you intointo things as well. Like,

(33:28):
you've got see a full package,right? And it's you who you're
putting yourself out there. Andso yeah, it's long answer to I
don't run into that that a lot.
And I would say 99% ofrecruiters. I don't know why
that would necessarily even belike a fear. The only thing I
could think about is like youpost something about not
ghosting. And then someone youghosted, like, calls you out.

That would make my life clear. Sorry and

move on. Move on. Exactly.

Yeah. And you brought up a good point. Like,
if you're gonna talk about atopic that you're not very
familiar with, like, let's sayyou want to address something
about DEI or something likethat, then do a video with
someone else who is an expertabout this, and then ask them
questions. And, yes, you'vecreated content about that, and
you've brought on someone whoactually knows. And I think it's

(34:17):
it's very important to rememberthe responsibility you have

with

the platform. Whether you have 1 follower or a
1000000 followers, whoever islooking or reading or watching
your content is you have theresponsibility of providing good
information, information thatyou believe is true and you
stand by. So I think as long asyou do that, you're not gonna
get canceled. And if someonethat yeah. If you talk about

(34:43):
ghosting and someone that youghosted says like, well, you
ghosted me in 2003.
It's like, well, sorry. I was ababy recruiter in 2003, and I
made some mistakes. So then

just like

move on.

And this is something which, like, probably
only recently in, like, last 6months, like, I've really kind
of dealt with. And I wentthrough, like, a phase where I
was pretty snarky with and withcomments. You know, I mean this
and that's okay and there's alot of recruiters who kind of
play that game where likethey'll find a post they don't
agree with and then they gottaleave that comment on it and
that's fine and like, it's inagain, it's like everyone has

(35:17):
their own choices. But I endedup having somebody like
basically send me like emaillike threatening emails and, you
know, my wife was pregnant. It'skinda like weird, you know, it's
just a weird threatening to sueme and all this sort of stuff.
I just started a business andtagged the lawyer on there. My
wife was freaking out. It wasthis whole thing. I kinda just

(35:39):
made a decision where I waslike, why am I being snarky?
Like it because most people whenI meet with it, like, oh, you're
a nice guy.
And I'm like, so why am I tryingto play this, like, sarcastic
person? And like, and I just Ithought like, okay, well, what
do I even want my brand to be?And how do I want people to
think about and and now I'mlike, I stayed away from that.

(36:00):
And this has changed everything.So I don't get as many as meant
stuff like that.
And if someone does commentsomething that seems to be
stirring the pot, I usually justleave it alone and I've just
kinda given myself permission oflike, it's real life but it's
not like human interaction. AndI think the truth is whatever
context people become themselveswhen it's a 1 on 1 actual face

(36:23):
to face interaction. Peoplebecome least themselves when
it's like online and you've gotlike a group of people around
you. And then it's the same likein real life. Right?
That's why you see like a 100people storming into something
in, like, you know, looting. Youcan kinda hide in the crowd. But
to do that just by yourself,you're probably not gonna no.

(36:46):
It's almost a guarantee all 100of those people would not do
that by themselves. Yeah.
So I think you've gotta havethat mentality because what I'll
see sometimes is, like, there's,like, a pack mentality on online
where someone will postsomething and then it's like you
know, the hounds will come from,like, lots of people. But what I
realized, I've met actually somepeople who trolled me online,

(37:06):
and then we get along offlineand so I kind of keep that in
mind where I'm like no matterwhat like when you meet people
face to face to 1 on 1 it'salways different and even if
people are like in a group theyare like hateful A lot of times
when you're actually puttingthat 1 on 1 situation, then not

(37:26):
actually that way because it'slike a humanity thing. This that
happens a lot of the time.Right? Not all of the time, but
I would say more than most ofthe time, I would I would say
that that happens.
And again, I've seen it so manytimes where like, I run into
somebody at an event. And wemaybe had a disagreement. So
they might have even saidsomething, maybe I even block

(37:47):
them. And then it's, like, somuch different in person. So
I've I've kind of just, like,disconnected myself from that
side of things.
I think if that's somethingyou're concerned about, just
always know, like, number 1, ifsomeone comments on something,
someone sends you a DM, you havezero obligation. You don't owe
anybody anything. And the worstthing you can do is like over

(38:08):
emotionalize it internally, andlike, let it own you for an hour
or 2 hours. And I think anyonewho created content knows
exactly what I'm talking about.But it's like, you got to get
past that and just go, look, I'mnot going to focus on the one
I'm going to focus on the 99people who are like, go, Joel.
Go, Rona. Like, you guys areamazing versus the one who's
like, woah. You guys don't knowwhat you're talking about.

(38:29):
Right?

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's give yourself permission to
ignore people. Like, it'sliterally super easy. It's way
easier than in real life.

If someone comments something, you can

just ignore the comment and move on. And, like,
I do this all the time. Like,sometimes someone comments
something and you're like, andI'm like, you know what? I'm
mad. I'm not I'm not evenresponding to this comment next.
Like

Exactly. And that and it unfortunately, it took
me, like, a long time to get tothat point. And it's the same
with a comparison thing. It'slike like you said, like, we're
doing this for a reason. Right?
And it's like, you can getcompare you know, you get you
start to compare and, like, youmake judgments of like where
people are at business wise. Andlike, again, I've had to just
go, okay, I'm just gonna focuson like what I'm doing and try

(39:15):
and support other people but Idon't wanna just get into this
comparison loop either. And thenalso it's just like we again, I
don't know why people don't talkabout this more but it's like
this social, like I was tellingmy wife this the other day. I
was like, sometimes, like, Ifall into a trap of, like, maybe
it's become validation for mefor, like, my identity as well.
Like how many likes I can get.
And it's like I have to almostwork through that and be like,

(39:38):
look, if I do a post that itgets 10 likes, like, that
doesn't mean I'm like, useless,or like, I have zero value as a
person. But it's like, when yourbusiness is tied to that, like
your validation, stuff you gotto work through. And again, I
don't think most people who arelistening to this would even
want to get to that scale. Butit's just, I think it's helpful
to know like, some of thesepitfalls that you can just pull

(40:00):
into or, like, maybe you do postand you're like, oh, nobody
liked it. It's like, it doesn'tmean that nobody likes you.
It's just they didn't see itbecause you're not on their news
feed that they're looking at,like, 10 minutes or, you know,
it's like there are algorithmsand stuff. Right?

Yeah. And also people don't always like things.
It's like when I was activelyrecruiting and creating content,
there were many times where Iwould post something that would,
like, get, like, 2 or 3 likes,and it was like, my mom's best
friend. She likes everything onmy LinkedIn. And, yeah, I love
her.
She supports me in everything.And, like, things like that. It
was like 1 or 2 people, like myboss, my mom's best friend, and

(40:38):
someone else. Yep. But then Iget on call, I would get on my
regular calls that day withcandidates, and they would be
like, I saw that video that youposted about this and this and
this.
That was so great. I wanna askmore because it was about the
company I was recruiting forbecause I've been doing internal
recruiting for a long time. So Iwould post things that were
about the company, and thatwould spark conversations. They

(41:00):
didn't like the video.

No. And why would it if it's like they they would
not gonna let like, again, ifyou're recruiting, like, people
don't wanna say, like, theydon't wanna like it because they
know it's gonna show up on theirboss's feed. Like, why are you
liking what this recruiter issaying? Or, like, how do you
know this person? And likeLinkedIn is definitely one of
those platforms where mostpeople are like, feel awkward on
the platform still.
And unless you're like used toit, and you're creating content,

(41:23):
that's like awkward, or it'sawkward, and people like don't
know how to approach it. Eventhough we you know, like
Facebook and Instagram, we'retotally fine to just like hit
like or repost to share. It's,there is a different culture on
on LinkedIn and I tried a clientwho I'm coaching 1 on 1 and he
said that he said, yeah, I justget my uncle, my brother, my
view of my family. And I waslike, yeah, but look at the view

(41:45):
how many minutes of view timelike you had like 3 hours of
view time on this video. That'samazing.
That's, you know, that meanspeople are

Yeah. My uncle didn't watch it for 3 hours.

No. You watched it for 3. He's like, wait. I
watched it for 3 now. It's, youknow, and we just get caught on
hooked in the wrong things Ithink with this stuff.
And I think when you think aboutLinkedIn as a platform which,
you know, most recruiters areon, you usually connect with
people, you know, people thatyou've worked with. And I just

(42:15):
think of like, when I think ofcontent nowadays, I literally
think of like, my mindset is,like, okay, if I'm, like,
FaceTiming one person, how whatwould I say to them? Kind of
knowing that there might be 10people or 20 people. And I think
we've sensationalized thesenumbers as well. And like,
obviously, like, you might hearon my oh, millions and oh,

(42:35):
millions is the goal.
And I'm like, no, from arecruiting standpoint, if you've
got 10 roles to fill, then 10 isthe goal. If you're running your
own business, and you your dealsize is 25 ks or 50 ks, you
know, for 2 deals, then guesswhat 2 is the goal. If you're a
solopreneur business person,same thing. Like you run a

(42:56):
coaching clinic, and it's 10 ks.And you think, Oh, I could use 5
clients and fives ago, not amillion, 5 of the right people.
I think, again, it trips peopleup and they're like, oh, well,
if I'm not getting this, and I'mlike, you don't need the I don't
know where this mass appeal evencame from to be honest with you.

Oh, I I've Yeah. I had an entire episode of talking
about that with James Ellis

Oh, yeah.

That I'll link for people to watch. But it's like
people companies are obsessedwith this, like, more
candidates. We want to appeal toeveryone. We want everyone to
love us. Like, that's not evenour goal.

Right? Top of funnel, like, how many
applicants? I because of hiringmanagers, that's what that's
what the who got anymore gettingnew candidates for me Instead of
asking like, do you have any oflike the right candidates? Like
and I did, I swear HiringManagers would rather have 10
bad candidates than one greatcandidate. That's like Yeah.
What are those metrics?

Yeah. So having having those conversations,
another thing that a lot ofrecruiters run into is their
leadership sees creating contentas, like, a waste of time
because, I guess, because it'ssuch of a long game, how do you
balance when you were recruitingand creating content? How did
you balance doing both thingsand find time for it?

I was really lucky the on the first company when I
started creating content. Iwouldn't say lucky but the CEO
of the company, number 1, I knewhim. I've known him for a long
time. So that that made it a loteasier. But also his mentality
was very much like or the thementality of the culture of the
company was like entrepreneurbeing an entrepreneur,

(44:34):
entrepreneurial.
And so I was like, well,content, creating content. This
is my entrepreneur thing. Thisis this is me thinking outside
of the box, and that's somethingthey celebrated. So I think if
you're in the right culture,that shouldn't be a problem. I
actually see and I think for ifyou I think if you're working at
a really large company and I wastalking to the chief people
officer at a really largecompany, we're having this exact

(44:55):
conversation.
He was like, Well, I don't knowwhy. Why why why are we just not
like why are we just hittingrecord and having conversation?
Well, because nowadays, you saythe wrong thing and people lose
1,000,000 of dollars. And sobigger companies, man, you say
the wrong thing. Stock pricegets hit.
It's it's literally costingpeople money. And so I think you

(45:17):
got to know your company, yougot to know what their what
their thoughts are. And when Istarted creating content, I was
working for this company whereit was very entrepreneurial. And
then the next company I wentwith or I went to work with, it
was a similar thing. Like, theyreally believed in content.
So I got into organizationswhere this was was acceptable. I
think to the ROI point, youknow, if company leaders are

(45:39):
questioning the ROI, I guess Iwould look at like, because I
talked to some of theserecruiting teams, maybe they've
got 60 people on a recruitmentteam. Number one thing I would
tell people to do it, like,don't jump into creating the
content right away. Look at thecontent that's already been
created by your marketing teamor on your LinkedIn page. And if
you have, you know, if I go toyour marketing page, and those

(46:00):
LinkedIn posts have 2 likes, andthe 60 people on the recruiting
team, It's like, there's anopportunity to hit like, and hit
repost.
And what you do is and there'sno doubt in my mind that if
every recruitment team islistening, just went, you know,
we're gonna get really behindthe marketing team, then no
doubt in my mind, number 1, whenhiring goes down, they're going

(46:20):
to question, they're still goingto know that you bring a value,
which is just like its contentdistribution. And so, you know,
when I look go to a company, Isee 20 recruiters, 40
recruiters, marketing page andit's like 1 like, I'm like,
you're already mess messing up.Right?

And so, like, just start to engage

first and get into that. And just show, don't tell.
Like, I think in my experience,telling people what an ROI is is
hard. Showing them the ROI is alot easier. So if I go to a
client and go, Hey, I just gotyou 50,000 impressions.
They're like, Oh my gosh. But ifI told them I was gonna get the

(46:54):
50,000 impressions, so like,okay. And so if you start with
that engagement, getting behindwhat the marketing team's doing,
you're making an impact. Theythey are going to see an impact
whether it's leads, impressions,whatever the KPIs they have set
out. And then the conversationstarts and you go, look, we've
been engaging with the team andlike, look at how our
impressions have gone over ourfollower and are we generating

(47:17):
new leads?
Do we need to do the same thingfrom a recruitment perspective?
The challenge with that is Ithink if someone's going to lead
this, it's going to be hard foran individual contributor
recruiter to do it. And with anyof these changes, you need
someone who is, you know, at theexecutive level or founder or
somebody who's in a position tohave a seat at that table with

(47:38):
the conversation. And so, like,this is to the chief people
officers, the chief humanresources officer, the people
who are leading. You have toinstigate this and you have to
believe in it.
If you're an IC and you'reyou're not in that environment,
it's gonna be hard. Right?Because you know, you don't even
get that conversation with theCFO or whoever making making
those decisions.

Yeah. I think as a IC, the most that you can do is
what I did in a environmentwhere it wasn't like so well
received. It was part of mysourcing. You want me to source?
This is how I source.
So let's say I had the abilityto spend 3 hours a day sourcing.
An hour of that was creatingcontent. And that helps my other

(48:21):
sourcing. So there there arealways ways to, like, weave it
in and, yeah, be mindful and bedon't go and say things about
your company if that's notaccepted and things like that.
But I think there's always a wayto find time.
You just have to be creativebecause there is a goal behind
what you're doing. And if it'sif it's sourcing, then this is
part of your sourcing strategytype of Yeah.

And and look, you start creating content. You
build up awareness. And then,like, data is also a great way
to to show it. So let let's say,hey, before I started creating
content, my email acceptancerate was 15%. Now that I started
creating content, it's it's 25%.
Right? Now you can attributethat to there's just more
awareness. And there's there'smore awareness. And I would I

(49:03):
would also say like, one of thethings that I've thought a lot
about with just creating contentas recruiters that's underrated
is, yes, the candidates are weobviously want more candidates
but there's also the side whichI think recruiters struggle with
more than even sourcingcandidates and reaching out to
them. And that is getting hiringmanagers bought into them
trusting you, your candidates,because there's nothing worse

(49:25):
with them.
If a hiring manager doesn'ttrust you, you can send them
candidates then not gonna workwith them. And so the number one
thing that a lot of recruiterssay is I wish I had more time
with my hiring managers. So Isay, well, look, if you put out
helpful information, see 3videos a week, helpful
information. Guess who's gonnasee that? Because you connected
to him on LinkedIn, you hire amanager.
And then, there's suddenlythere's this weird thing that

(49:46):
happens. There's a thing calledsocial proof. And if they see
you doing something, it's likeyou're an expert. If you're
making videos on what's going onin the industry, they're gonna
view you as an expert. And thenyou send them candidates, and
you have that trust fill in.
And so, again, what are thequestions that hiring managers
asked? What's the market like?What is our competition doing?
What are how is this going toimpact hiring? How is, you know,

(50:07):
what are the salary bands like?
You can create content aroundthat and then they start to see
you as that trusted person. Andagain, I think this is it's
harder if you're just startingout in recruitment. I hear that
and that can be a challenge. Butfor those recruiters who are,
you know, 3, 5, 10 years in, youknow, you are actually a subject
matter expert, but you canactually use content to get that

(50:28):
FaceTime that you want. And it'sthe same with with c suite.
Right? Because you're gonna beconnected to with them. So
there's this other side of itwhere it's like, yes,
candidates. Yes, employer brand.But what about just building
trust with the business andhaving them see you as this
person's credible?
Because there is a thing, youknow, it's that social proof,
right? That helps them. But theother side where, like, hey, you

(50:49):
can source 10 amazing candidatesto the best fit ever. But that
hiring manager doesn't have thattrust. Good luck.

Yeah. And and that works for for agency recruiters
and for internal. It has workedfor me for internal. I remember
once I posted some advice about,like, how to interview, like, as
an interviewer

Yep.

My hiring managers started asking me questions.
Obviously, no one liked thatvideo. They didn't like it
because everyone wants to everyhiring manager wants to be the
expert at hiring. They know howto interview. But on the side,
those conversations were greatand it builds that trust.
And that's where I that's whenone of my content pillars back
then started to be like yeah. Iwas like, The these are the

(51:34):
questions that they're they havethat they're asking, and it
brought value. It brings thetrust and then any candidates I
would present. And I'm workinginternally. We're coworkers.
It's just it levels up your yourrelationship.

This is the the juxtaposition with recruitment
is you're dealing with people onboth sides that know more about
the position than you. Andyou're given in an ideal world,
you're the one that's almostmaking a decision of like, who
in the pool of candidates wehave going through, based on

(52:08):
what the hiring manager hassaid, based on the job
description, based on theinformation you have, and then
understanding the resume and theconversation, you're the one
who's making a decision of whoI'm going to present to the
hiring manager, and then thehiring managers then present
making decision of who theyactually want to see and have
the conversation with. But inthat, it's like when it comes to
the knowledge level and thecredibility, you're actually the

(52:30):
lowest person on there with thecandidate, especially with
technical, they're not alwaysgoing to have respect for you as
a recruiter. So any way that youcan build that up, changes
everything. And this is where Ilike, again, that valuable and
being a thought leader.
Now, sometimes it's you creatingcontent, but it could also I was
thinking about that example withlike interviews, right? There's

(52:50):
a company out there that theirfounders, they post a lot of
information around that oraround interviews, like who's
speaking, how are they speaking?Like that type of content would
be great if you reposted it oryou reposted it with your
thought on there. Like, youknow, so you don't always have
to be the one that'snecessarily, like, creating it
or coming up with that, butmaybe you're sharing that and

(53:11):
going, no. This is great advice.
But again, it's like your namesassociated with that. As long as
you put your thoughts on there,they see that and then you're
elevated. And then you don't getthat complaint from that, you
know, that engineer that's justlike, oh, yeah. You're just
another recruiter that doesn'tknow anything that has this
agenda. So I actually I thinkthat example that you just
described was, like, is supersmart.

(53:33):
And it's like, is you'd love tohave that 1 on 1 conversation
with them and like, hey, this ishow we do a tour card. This is
how we make decisions. When areyou gonna get that? Right? But
you can make that content andthen suddenly the next thing you
find out, like, hey, can you cantrain our team on how to do
this?

Exactly. Yeah. And and and literally that happened
from that content. That's how Istarted my workshop on
interviewing for hiring teams.It started from me

just

posting a video about it, and then it that
snowballed into all the thingsthat I do today. So it's just I

think you said with with, like, the top voice badge
that you got as well. It waslike you're not going in there
to be like, oh, I wanna be a topvoice or like, oh, I wanna be I
wanna have millions and millionsof followers. I remember you
said to me, start putting outvaluable content that I cared
about that I thought washelpful, gonna be helpful to
people in my network, and thensomebody who makes the decision

(54:26):
to, hey, this person's a topvoice, they've found that
content helpful and engaging andvaluable. And I think what what
I love about that is it's kindof that common threat threat.
Right?
It's like you talk about thingsyou like and that you're an
expert in. And then the rest, itjust kind of takes care of
itself. But I would say like fora lot of recruiters out there if
you're listening you you feellike oh this is great this is

(54:48):
amazing but I just don't know ifI have that expertise or that
subject matter expertise. It'slike, I just want to tell you
right now, you do more than youthink. But there is that.
I think for both of us, we wouldboth say like, yes, sure.
There's probably times of likeimpostor syndrome and these
things, but you do also have tolike, you got to take that step
and go, you know, I believe thatI actually do know what I'm

(55:09):
talking about. And I've actuallyI believe that I have expertise
in these things. And you got tohave that confidence level to be
able to step out. And that'ssomething that you can only
really decide like you.
So again, with creativity,you've got to think you're
creative to be creative. I don'ttalk to I know I've
fantastically creative people.But I tell you what they all
think they all know that they'recreative, but they believe that

(55:31):
they're creative as well. Andit's almost like, you have to
have that self belief in thereas well. I think to get started,
so I just anyone who's listeningto some like, believe in it Just
like you are a subject matterexpert so start Yeah.
Start sharing that, you know?

And candidates always say that you don't know
what you're recruiting forHiring managers think you don't
know. Guess what? You are thesubject matter expert in hiring.
Exactly. That's why you're arecruiter.
That's what you talk about. Youdon't want to be a software
engineer. So you don't try to bean expert in software
engineering. Right? You're anexpert in recruiting.

(56:07):
You're an expert in hiring.Stand in that power and create
content and talk about that. Andlike, you are an expert. So I
love that you call that out. Sothis has been an awesome
conversation.

Yeah. I love it.

I'm so excited to share it. Where can listeners
find you if they want to connectwith you?

Yeah. I just go to, www.therealestrecruiter.com.
It's my website. I've got listall my socials on there. I've
also got a podcast calledRecruiting is No Joke, and all
of the podcast episodes are onthe on the podcast page on the
website.
But yeah, if you go if you gothere, then you can kind of pick

(56:46):
and choose where you want tofind me in terms of like
LinkedIn, which is obviouslywhere I'm where I'm at as well.
I am maxed out at maximumconnections, which is 30,000,
believe it or not, happens onceyou just get over a certain
amount of followers. But what Ialways say is, like, if you send
me a connection request, youknow, say that you heard me on
the podcast, I do DM everybodyback. So, and it's not AI. It's

(57:08):
a copy and pasted message.
It's not AI. It's me. I have tocopy and paste each individual
one. But then that means that wecan DM as well. And so it's kind
of a hack around the the wholelimitation.
Only difference is instead ofsaying like 1, or it's gonna say
second degree connection, but wecan still DM. So it's basically
the same thing. So, yeah, justgo to the
ww.therealistrecruiter. That'swhat this sign says if it's cut

(57:32):
off. And yeah.
If you just go there, you'll beable to find all my information.

Amazing. And there you have it, folks. Joel just
dropped some serious gems aboutcreating recruiting content that
actually works. Remember, it'snot about reinventing the wheel
every time you post. It's aboutconsistency, understanding what
your audience cares about, andyes, repeating yourself, but in

(57:57):
fresh, engaging ways.
Whether you're just starting outor you're looking to level up
your content game, Joel's adviceis gold. Find your niche,
embrace your expertise, anddon't be afraid to hit that
record button. The only thing Iwould add is get really good at
storytelling. That's why I'vecreated a free 7 day email

(58:19):
course, storytelling forrecruiters. This course teaches
you how to proactively answerthe questions that job seekers
really wanna know about yourcompany.
It's based on an anonymoussurvey I ran asking job seekers
what they'd ask in an interviewif they knew their chances of
being hired wouldn't beimpacted. To sign up, visit

(58:40):
ronapierce.com/storytelling. Thelink is in the show notes. And
if you wanna learn even moreabout attracting candidates with
your content, make sure to checkout episode 14, where I chat
with Taylor Dessen aboutbuilding online talent
communities. Trust me.
It's the perfect companion totoday's episode. Thanks for

(59:02):
listening, and I'll chat withyou next week.

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