September 30, 2024 • 32 mins
In this episode, Rhona Pierce and Kamara Toffolo discuss the intricacies of resume writing for talent acquisition professionals. They explore the challenges recruiters face in crafting their own resumes, the importance of quantifying accomplishments, and how to effectively showcase soft skills and leadership qualities. The conversation also delves into tailoring resumes for specific roles, leveraging employer branding experience, and navigating career changes. Additionally, they touch on the significance of staying competitive in a crowded job market and the responsible use of AI tools in the resume writing process. Kamara shares actionable takeaways for TA professionals to enhance their resumes and and stand out in the job market.
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//TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 INTRODUCTION
02:53 Quantifying Accomplishments in Talent Acquisition
06:07 Showcasing Soft Skills and Leadership
08:57 Tailoring Resumes for Specific Roles
12:13 Leveraging Employer Branding Experience
15:04 Navigating Career Changes in TA
17:53 Staying Competitive in a Crowded Market
21:12 Utilizing AI Tools Responsibly
24:05 Key Takeaways for TA Professionals
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rhona Pierce (00:00):
Recruiters know how to spot a good resume, but
do they know how to write onefor themselves? So there are a
Kamara Toffolo (00:07):
few things that I think all TA professional
recruiters should include ontheir resume, and I'm gonna pull
it down to 3 points, and theyall start with the letter p.
Okay? People, we wantaccomplishments that emphasize
what you've done in terms ofmoving a company's people
strategy forward. There'sprocess, What have you done to
(00:29):
improve upon or to completelytransform and overhaul
processes? And
Rhona Pierce (00:35):
That's Kamara Toffolo, a resume writer and job
search strategist strategist.Who's helped countless
recruiters and TA professionalstransform their resumes from not
so good to great. In today'sepisode, she's sharing the
secrets to writing a resume thatstands out. We spoke about why
(00:56):
even recruiters struggle withwriting a good resume, how to
showcase your accomplishmentseffectively, how to tailor your
resume for specific industriesor roles. And Kamara even shared
the three things every TA resumeshould include.
These past few years have beenrough for us in TA, but I can
see things are changing. Ifyou're ready to jump back into
(01:19):
the job market and find yournext TA role, you don't wanna
miss this episode. It's packedwith actionable advice to help
you create a resume that trulyreflects your skills and
experience. Let's dive in to myconversation with Kamara. Thank
you so much for being on theshow today, Kamara.
(01:39):
I'm so excited.
Kamara Toffolo (01:41):
I'm so excited to be here.
Rhona Pierce (01:43):
I know. I think we go way, way back. I was just
telling my husband, you were thefirst and practically much the
only person I've ever pitched tobe on their show or podcast. I
remember I was so nervous. I waslike, can I be on your live show
when you were doing your officehours back?
I think it was 2020, 2021.
Kamara Toffolo (02:05):
Yeah. Some And
Rhona Pierce (02:06):
you were like, sure. So it was the nicest
person ever to pitch because Iwas so scared, and you were
like, oh, yeah. Of course. Let'smake it happen.
Kamara Toffolo (02:13):
Oh, I really appreciate that. But I have to
tell you, like, I had you inmind, like, you were already on
my list of people that I wantedto approach. So it was kinda
kismet that you that you reachedout to me. Like, I really
appreciate that. So and we had agreat episode and it's and I
still get, like, great commentson it, which is wonderful.
(02:34):
So thank you for being on myshow.
Rhona Pierce (02:36):
Amazing. So I'm so happy to have you here today
talking about a topic that Ihate resumes. I'm gonna say it.
I I think everyone knows this. Ihate resumes.
One of the reasons is becauseI'm really bad at writing
resumes. That's what I think.Right? I see resumes all day as
a recruiter. And the past, Iwould say, 4 or 5 years, I've
(02:58):
been in leadership.
I've seen and I've been hiringrecruiters, obviously, for my
recruiting team. And I think I'mnot the only recruiter out there
whose resume is a hot mess. Sowhy do you think it's so
difficult for recruiters and TApros to write their own resumes?
Kamara Toffolo (03:18):
Well, I've thought about this from time to
time because I have had a fewrecruiter and TA clients. And
when I do see their originalresume, I'm like, I'm surprised
this isn't better, and I'msurprised that you need to hire
me. But I feel like it's sort oflike when it comes to resumes,
you know, recruiters and NTApros are are really, like,
(03:41):
connoisseurs. But I feel likeit's a I know a good resume when
I see it scenario. So notnecessarily, like, I can tell
you exactly what makes for anamazing resume.
It's an intuitive, like, youknow, I know a good resume when
I see it, but I have to see it.You know? So I think it's just
because recruiters and TA prosare just bombarded with 1,000
(04:04):
and 1,000 and thousands ofresumes all the time and across
the course of your careers. Andso I think it's just you know
when you like it, but there'syou don't have the specifics
that really jump out to you as,like, this makes for a great
resume. I don't know.
I would love to hear morerecruiter and TA Pro opinions on
their own resumes and why theythink that they're not good.
Rhona Pierce (04:27):
I don't know. I think it's kind of like what you
said. We see so many. We knowhow to spot 1, but I personally
am so done at the end of the dayfrom reading resumes that the
last thing I wanna do is writemy own resume. That's why I for
the last couple of years, I'vealways hired a resume writer.
Kamara Toffolo (04:47):
Fair enough. I can totally understand being
completely sick of it. So thatalso makes a lot of sense.
Rhona Pierce (04:53):
So one of the challenges that I see is folks
have is quantifying theiraccomplishments. Right? So what
are some creative ways that TAprofessionals can, like,
showcase their metrics and,like, the accomplishments that
they've had without it feelingweird.
Kamara Toffolo (05:11):
Yeah. I guess it can really feel weird as a
recruiter or a TA professionalbecause when we think about what
you specialize in, it's people.Right? So what are we doing
counting people? Like, where'sthe value in that?
Right? So I think what it reallyboils down to when we are trying
to quantify and it not feelweird is we want to reinforce
(05:32):
any metric that we share withBusiness Impact. So, for
example, this sounds weird,recruited for and filled 50
technical roles, let's say, asan accomplishment on its own.
But if we were to build on thatand say recruited and filled 50
technical roles within a certaintime frame in order to enable
(05:53):
growth or rapid growth for thecompany, that's a totally
different way to present it. SoI think as long as we're backing
up any numbers we share withthat business impact or business
enablement, that can help itfeel a lot less weird.
I think also using percentagescan be helpful. And this isn't
(06:15):
just, for recruiters or TAprofessionals, but many
professions. Like, we can makeaccomplishments, quantifiable
accomplishments, sound strongerand more impactful often when we
use percentages rather thancounting things out. Because
when we count things outdepending on the audience, it
may seem like a small number,may seem like a huge number, may
(06:36):
seem like a mid number. So whenwe are actually using
percentages, it does a betterjob of of making the
accomplishment a little bit moreuniversal or translatable across
industries or profession.
So I think, especially forrecruiters and TA folks, if
we're trying to measure maybesomething like an increase, I
should say an improvement in,like, time to fill or time to
(06:58):
hire rates, that's where apercentage would come into play
as being really helpful. And wecan also use percentages when
we're talking about efficiencyas well. So if we improve the
process, build a process,optimize how we use technology
platforms, there's probably somesort of quantifiable
accomplishment in there from anefficiency standpoint that we
(07:20):
can measure in percentage, andthat will hopefully make it feel
a little less weird. Like, we'rejust counting heads. You know?
Rhona Pierce (07:27):
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. That's a great way to
think about it and put it. And,also, the real way to stand out
as a recruiter, and I knowsomeone who's hired recruiters,
you don't wanna be the personwho's just like the
transactional recruiter.
You wanna be the strategicrecruiter. And how can you
showcase that you're strategicis by tying back your
(07:48):
accomplishments to the business.And, also, I see it as a way of,
like, putting in like, steppingin the door the right way
because I'm not just filling inroles for you. I'm not just
putting butts in seats. I'mactually making your business
run because without people, itwould not run.
(08:10):
So when you tie back youraccomplishments as a recruiter
to business accomplishments,that's gold.
Kamara Toffolo (08:17):
I love that. And I love how you say I'm making
your business run. That'sexactly what it is. Without
people, like, what are you gonnado? You're gonna go.
Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (08:26):
I mean, I I've always been amazed. And from as
someone coming from a differentindustry because, you know, I
used to be a software engineerbefore I moved into TA. How or
where did that breakdown happenwhere companies and people in
general, even candidates, havedecided that recruiters are like
this disposable, not important.They are essential to your
(08:49):
business. They're bringing inyour people.
Kamara Toffolo (08:52):
A 100%. Yeah. Absolutely. Couldn't be more.
Rhona Pierce (08:55):
So in addition to, like, the accomplishments and
the things that we tie back tothe business, it's also a people
business. Right? Recruiting isabout people. How can people
showcase their soft skills andleadership qualities on a
resume?
Kamara Toffolo (09:11):
So we talk a lot about quantifying
accomplishments and quantifiableaccomplishments on a resume, and
that is kind of the foundationof great resume writing. But I
don't want folks to shy awayfrom qualitative accomplishments
as well. So while numbers conveyimpact really quickly, we can
still use our words to conveythe impact that we've had in our
goals. And so I feel likequalitative accomplishments are
(09:34):
what you're going to wanna leanon when we are talking about the
soccer skills or leadership sideof things. So when we're talking
about, emphasizing leadershipskills, let's say, we'll
probably want to highlightinstances of where we have led a
team to accomplish a certainthing or where we're not a team
leader, where we've mentored orcoached peers or folks who are
(09:54):
junior to us to achieve acertain thing, whatever that
thing may be.
It could even be careerprogression for a particular
person. So there's been manytimes where I've highlighted
helping someone achieve apromotion. So my clients have,
coached someone to achieve apromotion for themselves, and I
think that's a greataccomplishment to demonstrate
leadership skills. From a clientmanagement perspective or like a
(10:18):
hiring manager managermanagement perspective, I think
it would be a great idea toprovide examples of initiatives,
let's say, that maybe you, cameup with or led or champions that
improve the engagement withhiring managers and and that
partnership with those clients,so to speak.
Rhona Pierce (10:39):
Perfect. A lot of TA folks, especially now where a
lot of teams are slashed andyour TA team of 1 to do
everything, they also areinvolved in employer branding
initiatives. Like, can you sharesome tips on how they can
leverage that employer brandingexperience to make their resume
(11:03):
stand out? Sure.
Kamara Toffolo (11:05):
So in an ideal world, there's going to be some
sort of metric, or measurementtied to these employer branding
initiatives. Like, we wannameasure the effort of our
output. Right? That's what wewanna lean on if we can. In the
absence of having an actualmetric, what we can do is maybe
consider where there wereinstances where we maybe came up
(11:27):
with the idea for an employerbranding initiative.
So let's say as a recruiter ortalent acquisition professional,
our idea was to use social mediato start sharing more like daily
or behind the scenes type ofcontent to attract the right
type of talent, to us. So if wecame up with that idea, then
(11:49):
simply explaining we came upwith the idea is is an
accomplishment in in and ofitself and that it was
implemented. If there's a metricto tie to it, even better.
There's many different ways thatyou could highlight various
employer branding initiatives,whether it's something you came
up with or even contributed to.So again, we can quantify where
(12:10):
where possible, but I we canalso use qualitative
accomplishments as well.
Rhona Pierce (12:15):
And now I wanna touch a little bit. I I realized
that at the beginning, I saidthat a lot of recruiter resumes
are a hot mess. One of thereasons why or one of the
reasons why I call recruiterresumes a hot mess is because
you can see in one resume,people try to put everything
(12:35):
about the various industries,job types, every single thing
they've ever recruited for. Howcan TA professionals tailor
their resumes, like, toeffectively showcase their
skills and their experience forspecific roles?
Kamara Toffolo (12:51):
So, yeah, that's a common pitfall fall across
every profession is we alwayswant to cover every possible
scenario in our resume. Right?So this really boils down to
having a clearly defined targetrole. So even if you are staying
within recruiting or talentacquisition, if we still want to
(13:13):
identify at least targetindustries or target companies,
it would be even better. And soin doing that, that's going to
give you a solid base from whichto refine what you're sharing in
your resume.
And if we're making a shift,let's say we recruited for,
like, sales before, now we wannamove more towards software or
(13:36):
engineering, let's say, we wantto consider kind of the common
pain points shared between thesales organization trying to
attract and retain talent andthe software engineering
organization trying to attractand retain that type of talent
and really highlight instancesof where we've done a good job
of solving that pain point. But,again, it really boils down to
(13:59):
that that target and having thattarget clearly defined so you're
not feeling compelled to shareeverything.
Rhona Pierce (14:05):
And I don't know. This is, for some reason,
controversial because somerecruiters think you have to
create a new resume for eachrole. Others like me believe you
tailor per industry. And Iunderstand that right now,
especially in this landscape,people have been without jobs
(14:26):
for a long time, especially TAand recruiting. We've been hit
hard with layoffs.
So you're not like I know peoplelistening to this are thinking,
I don't have a a targetindustry. I just want a job.
What do you think? This is myapproach to this. So I've
recruited across tech, media,and also sales.
(14:46):
I don't like doing sales, so Idon't even create a resume. I
don't even put that on my resumebecause I don't like recruiting.
So I don't want that job. But Iusually create one resume that I
can send for any tech roles,tech companies, one resume for
any media ones, and then I haveone that kind of has, like, the
(15:06):
intersection of both becausethey are companies that have
both. I worked at 1.
That was my last place. Do youagree with that approach?
Kamara Toffolo (15:15):
I do. That would probably be my approach as well.
That approach or more of amaster resume approach, which is
effectively what you're doing.You just have everything in
separate documents. So I thinkthat's a great way to approach
it, and I like that you saidthat you don't include sales
because you don't wanna do it.
So that's really something thatwe should be following for
(15:37):
resume writing across acrossevery profession is don't
include stuff you want less of.So if you don't wanna do sales,
don't put, like, salesrecruiting, don't include sales
recruiting accomplishment. But,yeah, I really like your
approach. I think tailoringespecially when you have a
clearly defined role, like,you're like, I wanna recruit.
And the variation is within oris across industries.
(15:59):
I think that approach is is aperfect one, exactly what I
would do. Worst case scenario,you have a base resume and then
you might tailor it a little bitdepending or tailor your
accomplishments a little bitdepending on what you want to
attract for your next role. But,yeah, I love your approach.
Rhona Pierce (16:19):
Great. Yeah. I I think and when you mentioned the
the not putting things that youdon't wanna do, I learned that
the hard way because I rememberputting something on a resume.
That was back when I was workingin as a software project
manager. I remember putting atype of project that I
absolutely hated.
Well, guess what? Next job,turns out that they hired me
(16:40):
specifically because of thattype of project. And I was like,
I can't get away from this.
Kamara Toffolo (16:46):
Oh, no.
Rhona Pierce (16:46):
And I didn't say anything, but I remember my
manager saying, like, I'm soexcited to hire you to for this
because we're about to startthis. And I was like, great.
Kamara Toffolo (16:54):
Oh, no. More of the stuff I hate.
Rhona Pierce (16:57):
So there I learned, things I hate, even if
I'm great at them, do not go onmy resume.
Kamara Toffolo (17:03):
That's right. That's right. Just because
you're good at it doesn't meanyou have to do it. Right?
Rhona Pierce (17:07):
Yeah. So let's say a TA professional is targeting a
new industry or a new role.
Kamara Toffolo (17:15):
Mhmm.
Rhona Pierce (17:15):
What are some resume tailoring tips that you
can share in that scenario?
Kamara Toffolo (17:20):
So this really, again, comes back to those
common pain points between therecruiting that we've been doing
and the recruiting that we wantto be doing. So I think earlier
I mentioned about maybe, like,retention being a problem. So
let's say you previouslyrecruited for a profession that
has, like, higher, like, newhigher turnover, but you it's
(17:44):
something that you were able tosolve or or improve upon and
that you're move you're lookingto move into a industry that has
that similar challenge, that'sthat's an example of something
that we would want to highlightas an accomplishment. Are you
wondering about going fromrecruiting into a totally
different profession or justindustries mostly?
Rhona Pierce (18:03):
Yeah. Industries is good. But, for example, what
about a lot of recruiters wannago into, like, employee
experience or employer brandingor HR proper, like HR business
partners. How would you tailorthat? Sure.
Kamara Toffolo (18:19):
So if we're planning on making, like, a
profession change a professioncareer change, we really wanna
focus on translating, so tospeak, the the accomplishments
and experience that we do haveto make sense towards that new
direction. So let's say we wannado recruiting to, as you said,
(18:39):
proper HR, we would really wannamake sure that we are
highlighting instances,especially of strategic work,
where we are building,developing, and implementing
people strategies. So that wouldbe really important. Ways that
we've advised hiring managers onwhatever in order to achieve
(19:00):
what are whatever theirobjectives are and how you help
them achieve that. So reallytaking, say, maybe that straight
recruiting experience and justmorphing it a little bit and
massaging it a little bit sothat someone can understand it
in the HR context as as anexample.
Again, this like, before we doany of this, it really comes
(19:22):
down to that target job.
Rhona Pierce (19:24):
It's all about the targeting, and, I know both you
and I are on the same page onthat, so I know it will come up
many times throughout thisinterview. Yes. But Right. It is
it is something important, andit is something that a lot of
people don't take into account.And to me, it's the most
important thing if you're jobsearch.
You need to know what you'relooking for, what you're
(19:45):
targeting.
Kamara Toffolo (19:46):
Mhmm. Agreed.
Rhona Pierce (19:48):
So TA is very competitive. It always has been,
but even more so now. What aresome unique ways that you think
TA professionals can make theirresume stand out from the rest
of the pile?
Kamara Toffolo (20:02):
I think that the TA recruitment folks who really
stand out from the crowd arethose who are really focused on
upskilling. So staying on top oftechnology innovation, staying
on top of the new tech tools andtrends that are emerging, and
maybe even taking it uponthemselves to engage in
(20:25):
additional professionaldevelopment in order to show
that commitment to staying atthe top of their field. I think
that's really what it's what itcomes down to. Of course, we
wanna show we're qualified andthat we are doing great things
for the business. That'spriority 1.
But when we wanna add to that,that's where we want to consider
(20:46):
kind of those stretchopportunities or or where we've
tried to, again, upskill and andreally stay competitive
ourselves and take it uponourselves to stay competitive. I
think that's really where peopleare standing out.
Rhona Pierce (20:59):
Yeah. And I think it's a way of not only
showcasing that you arequalified for the present role,
but recruiting changes reallyquick. So it's a way to future
proof your resume and show thatit's like, okay. This is what
I've done. This is what I'veaccomplished.
But I'm all I'm someone who'sconstantly learning and
evolving. So I'm not just goingto be good at this thing at
(21:23):
whatever they throw at metomorrow, AI 2.0, whatever. Yep.
I'm gonna be good at it.Absolutely.
How can TA professionalsleverage AI tools in their
resume writing process withoutlosing their unique voice?
Kamara Toffolo (21:42):
I I was having a an extensive conversation about
AI today, actually. I admit thatI have not adopted AI
effectively, and I am not themost knowledgeable person about
AI. And I and this is this is acue to me that I need to to do
more, studying andinvestigation. But when we think
(22:03):
about tools like the Chat GPT,and making use of that for our
resume writing, I like Chat GPTfrom a prompt perspective. I
like using it for ideas, but wecan't use its output directly.
I mean, it's I you you couldprobably speak better into this
than I can, but, like, I knowthat folks are are applying with
(22:27):
Chat GPT resumes that screamChat GPT. Right?
Rhona Pierce (22:32):
Yes. They're doing it, and it's not only non TA job
seekers because that's, to behonest, out of control. But
recruiters are also doing it,and it's like, come on, guys. We
expect more from a recruiterresume, to be honest. And I
don't know if it's fair, but Iknow when I'm hiring, I want to
(22:55):
see, yes, I love that you'reusing AI.
That shows me that you'resomeone that's staying at the
cutting edge and all of that. Donot use those AI buzzwords that
we all know unlock, unleash. Noone before AI, I never saw
anyone unleash anything on theirresume. Like, that's not have
(23:18):
you have you ever seen the wordunleash on a resume before and
using it. Really?
Kamara Toffolo (23:23):
I'm guilty of use I I don't think I used
unlock, but I used unleash, afew times to the but I never
used it in an accomplishment. Soit was more so in branding
statement. So guilty as charged.But that's good to know that
that's a buzzword. But I, yeah,I think there's no way to pull,
(23:44):
recruiter pull the wool overrecruiters and tell tell them
what acquisition professionals'eyes.
Like, you're they're gonna knowif it's it's a direct copy paste
from ChatGPT. Let's just usechat AI and ChatGPT for ideas.
And I think that's that's whereit's safe and also advantageous.
Like, if you're really stuck onwhat can I highlight on my
(24:04):
resume, ask chat gpt and maybeit'll give you some really solid
ideas, and then you come up withthe writing on your own?
Rhona Pierce (24:11):
Yeah. And I I wanna say I did not and I would
never disqualify anyone becauseI can tell that their resume was
written with Chat GPT. What Ican say is I would be way more
critical of the accomplishmentsbecause it's like, are they
real? Like, who fed thisaccomplishment? Did TagTPC
Kamara Toffolo (24:34):
come up
Rhona Pierce (24:34):
with it, or is this a real thing? So it's it's
a resume that I would do a lotmore digging into to be like
Right. Okay. Let's try and findwhat's real, what versus what
isn't real. And that's why Istay away from copy and pasting
from chat gpt because it just Ithink it kind of, like, doesn't
(24:55):
build the trust that you need tobuild with a resume.
It's a quick trust of, like, oh,I wanna know more about this
person. But if you're alreadythinking, is this true? Is this
not true? Mhmm. There's a lotmore digging, and ChatGPT
doesn't necessarily help youanswer those extra digging
(25:16):
questions.
Kamara Toffolo (25:17):
Right. Oh, that's that's such a good point.
Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (25:20):
Let's see. So I wanna provide, like, some
actionable takeaways for ourlisteners. Can you share, like,
3 to 5 key things that every TAprofessional should include on
their resume?
Kamara Toffolo (25:35):
For sure. So there are a few things that I
think all TA professionals andrecruiters should include on
their resume, and I'm gonna boilit down to 3 points, and they
all start with the letter p.Okay? So people, we want
accomplishments that emphasizewhat you've done in terms of
moving a company's peoplestrategy forward. There's
(25:58):
process.
What have you done to improveupon or to completely transform
and overhaul processes that dida better job of enabling a
people strategy forward. Andplatforms, how have you
leveraged the technology thatyour organization uses in order
(26:18):
to help grow teams that furtherenable the business to do what
it's wanting to do. So people,process, and platforms, I think
when we stress accomplishmentsin these three categories, we'll
be able to build a really solid,professional experience section.
Rhona Pierce (26:35):
Perfect. I like that.
Kamara Toffolo (26:37):
Thank you.
Rhona Pierce (26:38):
I think there is one other thing I wanted to ask
that I forgot.
Kamara Toffolo (26:42):
Okay.
Rhona Pierce (26:43):
So with AI becoming more prevalent like, I
just came from a conference fromRecFest, and every HR tech
vendor out there or most of themare talking about AI, AI this,
AI I was like, at one point, oneof the hosts said, like, let's
do AI bingo anytime they theword AI happens because it was
(27:04):
like it was that much that youwere hearing
Kamara Toffolo (27:07):
about it.
Rhona Pierce (27:07):
So, yes, AI is important. I don't think AI is
taking over jobs. Like, I'll putthat out there. But it's
important to know AI and to be,like, knowledgeable of what's
out there. How can someonehighlight AI literacy and
experience with AI tools ontheir resume?
Kamara Toffolo (27:29):
That's a really good question because I've done
a horrible job of of building myown AI literacy. A lot of it
comes down to exploration. Soexploring AI and its
capabilities, not necessarilymaking use of it, but kind of
kind of playing around with itand seeing what it could
(27:49):
possibly do. I also think thatthere is a self study component.
That's what I'm gonna strive todo as well.
There are a lot of courses outthere. Mind you, this is a very
still an emerging concept. Sothe courses, they're still just
scratching the surface at thispoint. But I think there is
benefit to taking some evenfreebie courses on AI as it
(28:14):
relates to HR, AI as it relatesto recruiting and talent
acquisition in order to justbuild your base familiarity with
AI. If we have actually used AIon the job, what we wanna make
sure we do is highlight whatbusiness impact resulted from
that, but we also wanna makesure that we are indicating how
we've used AI responsibly.
(28:36):
Because AI is misunderstood in alot of cases and also can run a
little wild in some cases and isalways subject to scrutiny. So
we just wanna make sure thatwe're indicating the action we
took with the AI, what theresult was of that AI, and how
(28:56):
we made sure to remain compliantin our, you know, from a people
perspective while making use ofthat AI.
Rhona Pierce (29:03):
That's a really good call out, and I hadn't
thought about it. But, yes, as aleader, if I were hiring a
recruiter, yes, I want someonewho's familiar with AI, who has
leveraged it in some way, buthas done it responsibly. I don't
want someone who is so into AIthat next thing I know, every
(29:24):
single job description, offerletter, everything is just going
to be, hey, Chad GPT, do thiswithout looking through stuff
because that's legal liabilitiesand a lot of things we slippery
slope, we don't wanna get into.So that's a really good call
out. Thank you.
(29:45):
So this has been a greatconversation. I know folks are
gonna get a lot of benefit outof it. How can listeners connect
with you?
Kamara Toffolo (29:54):
I am Kamara Toffolo everywhere, but where
I'm most active is LinkedIn andYouTube. So if you just look up
my name, Kamara Toffolo, youwill find me there. Perfect.
Rhona Pierce (30:06):
Thank you so much for being on the show today,
Kamara.
Kamara Toffolo (30:10):
Thank you for having me.
Rhona Pierce (30:12):
Thanks to Kamara for being on the show. Remember,
your resume is not just a listof past jobs. It's a strategic
document that should highlightyour unique value proposition as
a TA professional. I don't knowabout you, but I'm ready for
this nightmare TA job market tobe a thing of the past. Over the
(30:34):
next few weeks, I'm sharingepisodes that will help you get
back in the game.
Be sure to subscribe to throwout the playbook podcast
wherever you get your podcast.And if you liked what you heard
today, please leave a 5 starreview. Reviews help other
listeners find us. Thanks forlistening, and I'll chat with
you next week.
Recruiters know how to spot a good resume, but
do they know how to write onefor themselves? So there are a
Kamara Toffolo (00:07):
few things that I think all TA professional
recruiters should include ontheir resume, and I'm gonna pull
it down to 3 points, and theyall start with the letter p.
Okay? People, we wantaccomplishments that emphasize
what you've done in terms ofmoving a company's people
strategy forward. There'sprocess, What have you done to
(00:29):
improve upon or to completelytransform and overhaul
processes? And
Rhona Pierce (00:35):
That's Kamara Toffolo, a resume writer and job
search strategist strategist.Who's helped countless
recruiters and TA professionalstransform their resumes from not
so good to great. In today'sepisode, she's sharing the
secrets to writing a resume thatstands out. We spoke about why
(00:56):
even recruiters struggle withwriting a good resume, how to
showcase your accomplishmentseffectively, how to tailor your
resume for specific industriesor roles. And Kamara even shared
the three things every TA resumeshould include.
These past few years have beenrough for us in TA, but I can
see things are changing. Ifyou're ready to jump back into
(01:19):
the job market and find yournext TA role, you don't wanna
miss this episode. It's packedwith actionable advice to help
you create a resume that trulyreflects your skills and
experience. Let's dive in to myconversation with Kamara. Thank
you so much for being on theshow today, Kamara.
(01:39):
I'm so excited.
Kamara Toffolo (01:41):
I'm so excited to be here.
Rhona Pierce (01:43):
I know. I think we go way, way back. I was just
telling my husband, you were thefirst and practically much the
only person I've ever pitched tobe on their show or podcast. I
remember I was so nervous. I waslike, can I be on your live show
when you were doing your officehours back?
I think it was 2020, 2021.
Kamara Toffolo (02:05):
Yeah. Some And
Rhona Pierce (02:06):
you were like, sure. So it was the nicest
person ever to pitch because Iwas so scared, and you were
like, oh, yeah. Of course. Let'smake it happen.
Kamara Toffolo (02:13):
Oh, I really appreciate that. But I have to
tell you, like, I had you inmind, like, you were already on
my list of people that I wantedto approach. So it was kinda
kismet that you that you reachedout to me. Like, I really
appreciate that. So and we had agreat episode and it's and I
still get, like, great commentson it, which is wonderful.
(02:34):
So thank you for being on myshow.
Rhona Pierce (02:36):
Amazing. So I'm so happy to have you here today
talking about a topic that Ihate resumes. I'm gonna say it.
I I think everyone knows this. Ihate resumes.
One of the reasons is becauseI'm really bad at writing
resumes. That's what I think.Right? I see resumes all day as
a recruiter. And the past, Iwould say, 4 or 5 years, I've
(02:58):
been in leadership.
I've seen and I've been hiringrecruiters, obviously, for my
recruiting team. And I think I'mnot the only recruiter out there
whose resume is a hot mess. Sowhy do you think it's so
difficult for recruiters and TApros to write their own resumes?
Kamara Toffolo (03:18):
Well, I've thought about this from time to
time because I have had a fewrecruiter and TA clients. And
when I do see their originalresume, I'm like, I'm surprised
this isn't better, and I'msurprised that you need to hire
me. But I feel like it's sort oflike when it comes to resumes,
you know, recruiters and NTApros are are really, like,
(03:41):
connoisseurs. But I feel likeit's a I know a good resume when
I see it scenario. So notnecessarily, like, I can tell
you exactly what makes for anamazing resume.
It's an intuitive, like, youknow, I know a good resume when
I see it, but I have to see it.You know? So I think it's just
because recruiters and TA prosare just bombarded with 1,000
(04:04):
and 1,000 and thousands ofresumes all the time and across
the course of your careers. Andso I think it's just you know
when you like it, but there'syou don't have the specifics
that really jump out to you as,like, this makes for a great
resume. I don't know.
I would love to hear morerecruiter and TA Pro opinions on
their own resumes and why theythink that they're not good.
Rhona Pierce (04:27):
I don't know. I think it's kind of like what you
said. We see so many. We knowhow to spot 1, but I personally
am so done at the end of the dayfrom reading resumes that the
last thing I wanna do is writemy own resume. That's why I for
the last couple of years, I'vealways hired a resume writer.
Kamara Toffolo (04:47):
Fair enough. I can totally understand being
completely sick of it. So thatalso makes a lot of sense.
Rhona Pierce (04:53):
So one of the challenges that I see is folks
have is quantifying theiraccomplishments. Right? So what
are some creative ways that TAprofessionals can, like,
showcase their metrics and,like, the accomplishments that
they've had without it feelingweird.
Kamara Toffolo (05:11):
Yeah. I guess it can really feel weird as a
recruiter or a TA professionalbecause when we think about what
you specialize in, it's people.Right? So what are we doing
counting people? Like, where'sthe value in that?
Right? So I think what it reallyboils down to when we are trying
to quantify and it not feelweird is we want to reinforce
(05:32):
any metric that we share withBusiness Impact. So, for
example, this sounds weird,recruited for and filled 50
technical roles, let's say, asan accomplishment on its own.
But if we were to build on thatand say recruited and filled 50
technical roles within a certaintime frame in order to enable
(05:53):
growth or rapid growth for thecompany, that's a totally
different way to present it. SoI think as long as we're backing
up any numbers we share withthat business impact or business
enablement, that can help itfeel a lot less weird.
I think also using percentagescan be helpful. And this isn't
(06:15):
just, for recruiters or TAprofessionals, but many
professions. Like, we can makeaccomplishments, quantifiable
accomplishments, sound strongerand more impactful often when we
use percentages rather thancounting things out. Because
when we count things outdepending on the audience, it
may seem like a small number,may seem like a huge number, may
(06:36):
seem like a mid number. So whenwe are actually using
percentages, it does a betterjob of of making the
accomplishment a little bit moreuniversal or translatable across
industries or profession.
So I think, especially forrecruiters and TA folks, if
we're trying to measure maybesomething like an increase, I
should say an improvement in,like, time to fill or time to
(06:58):
hire rates, that's where apercentage would come into play
as being really helpful. And wecan also use percentages when
we're talking about efficiencyas well. So if we improve the
process, build a process,optimize how we use technology
platforms, there's probably somesort of quantifiable
accomplishment in there from anefficiency standpoint that we
(07:20):
can measure in percentage, andthat will hopefully make it feel
a little less weird. Like, we'rejust counting heads. You know?
Rhona Pierce (07:27):
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. That's a great way to
think about it and put it. And,also, the real way to stand out
as a recruiter, and I knowsomeone who's hired recruiters,
you don't wanna be the personwho's just like the
transactional recruiter.
You wanna be the strategicrecruiter. And how can you
showcase that you're strategicis by tying back your
(07:48):
accomplishments to the business.And, also, I see it as a way of,
like, putting in like, steppingin the door the right way
because I'm not just filling inroles for you. I'm not just
putting butts in seats. I'mactually making your business
run because without people, itwould not run.
(08:10):
So when you tie back youraccomplishments as a recruiter
to business accomplishments,that's gold.
Kamara Toffolo (08:17):
I love that. And I love how you say I'm making
your business run. That'sexactly what it is. Without
people, like, what are you gonnado? You're gonna go.
Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (08:26):
I mean, I I've always been amazed. And from as
someone coming from a differentindustry because, you know, I
used to be a software engineerbefore I moved into TA. How or
where did that breakdown happenwhere companies and people in
general, even candidates, havedecided that recruiters are like
this disposable, not important.They are essential to your
(08:49):
business. They're bringing inyour people.
Kamara Toffolo (08:52):
A 100%. Yeah. Absolutely. Couldn't be more.
Rhona Pierce (08:55):
So in addition to, like, the accomplishments and
the things that we tie back tothe business, it's also a people
business. Right? Recruiting isabout people. How can people
showcase their soft skills andleadership qualities on a
resume?
Kamara Toffolo (09:11):
So we talk a lot about quantifying
accomplishments and quantifiableaccomplishments on a resume, and
that is kind of the foundationof great resume writing. But I
don't want folks to shy awayfrom qualitative accomplishments
as well. So while numbers conveyimpact really quickly, we can
still use our words to conveythe impact that we've had in our
goals. And so I feel likequalitative accomplishments are
(09:34):
what you're going to wanna leanon when we are talking about the
soccer skills or leadership sideof things. So when we're talking
about, emphasizing leadershipskills, let's say, we'll
probably want to highlightinstances of where we have led a
team to accomplish a certainthing or where we're not a team
leader, where we've mentored orcoached peers or folks who are
(09:54):
junior to us to achieve acertain thing, whatever that
thing may be.
It could even be careerprogression for a particular
person. So there's been manytimes where I've highlighted
helping someone achieve apromotion. So my clients have,
coached someone to achieve apromotion for themselves, and I
think that's a greataccomplishment to demonstrate
leadership skills. From a clientmanagement perspective or like a
(10:18):
hiring manager managermanagement perspective, I think
it would be a great idea toprovide examples of initiatives,
let's say, that maybe you, cameup with or led or champions that
improve the engagement withhiring managers and and that
partnership with those clients,so to speak.
Rhona Pierce (10:39):
Perfect. A lot of TA folks, especially now where a
lot of teams are slashed andyour TA team of 1 to do
everything, they also areinvolved in employer branding
initiatives. Like, can you sharesome tips on how they can
leverage that employer brandingexperience to make their resume
(11:03):
stand out? Sure.
Kamara Toffolo (11:05):
So in an ideal world, there's going to be some
sort of metric, or measurementtied to these employer branding
initiatives. Like, we wannameasure the effort of our
output. Right? That's what wewanna lean on if we can. In the
absence of having an actualmetric, what we can do is maybe
consider where there wereinstances where we maybe came up
(11:27):
with the idea for an employerbranding initiative.
So let's say as a recruiter ortalent acquisition professional,
our idea was to use social mediato start sharing more like daily
or behind the scenes type ofcontent to attract the right
type of talent, to us. So if wecame up with that idea, then
(11:49):
simply explaining we came upwith the idea is is an
accomplishment in in and ofitself and that it was
implemented. If there's a metricto tie to it, even better.
There's many different ways thatyou could highlight various
employer branding initiatives,whether it's something you came
up with or even contributed to.So again, we can quantify where
(12:10):
where possible, but I we canalso use qualitative
accomplishments as well.
Rhona Pierce (12:15):
And now I wanna touch a little bit. I I realized
that at the beginning, I saidthat a lot of recruiter resumes
are a hot mess. One of thereasons why or one of the
reasons why I call recruiterresumes a hot mess is because
you can see in one resume,people try to put everything
(12:35):
about the various industries,job types, every single thing
they've ever recruited for. Howcan TA professionals tailor
their resumes, like, toeffectively showcase their
skills and their experience forspecific roles?
Kamara Toffolo (12:51):
So, yeah, that's a common pitfall fall across
every profession is we alwayswant to cover every possible
scenario in our resume. Right?So this really boils down to
having a clearly defined targetrole. So even if you are staying
within recruiting or talentacquisition, if we still want to
(13:13):
identify at least targetindustries or target companies,
it would be even better. And soin doing that, that's going to
give you a solid base from whichto refine what you're sharing in
your resume.
And if we're making a shift,let's say we recruited for,
like, sales before, now we wannamove more towards software or
(13:36):
engineering, let's say, we wantto consider kind of the common
pain points shared between thesales organization trying to
attract and retain talent andthe software engineering
organization trying to attractand retain that type of talent
and really highlight instancesof where we've done a good job
of solving that pain point. But,again, it really boils down to
(13:59):
that that target and having thattarget clearly defined so you're
not feeling compelled to shareeverything.
Rhona Pierce (14:05):
And I don't know. This is, for some reason,
controversial because somerecruiters think you have to
create a new resume for eachrole. Others like me believe you
tailor per industry. And Iunderstand that right now,
especially in this landscape,people have been without jobs
(14:26):
for a long time, especially TAand recruiting. We've been hit
hard with layoffs.
So you're not like I know peoplelistening to this are thinking,
I don't have a a targetindustry. I just want a job.
What do you think? This is myapproach to this. So I've
recruited across tech, media,and also sales.
(14:46):
I don't like doing sales, so Idon't even create a resume. I
don't even put that on my resumebecause I don't like recruiting.
So I don't want that job. But Iusually create one resume that I
can send for any tech roles,tech companies, one resume for
any media ones, and then I haveone that kind of has, like, the
(15:06):
intersection of both becausethey are companies that have
both. I worked at 1.
That was my last place. Do youagree with that approach?
Kamara Toffolo (15:15):
I do. That would probably be my approach as well.
That approach or more of amaster resume approach, which is
effectively what you're doing.You just have everything in
separate documents. So I thinkthat's a great way to approach
it, and I like that you saidthat you don't include sales
because you don't wanna do it.
So that's really something thatwe should be following for
(15:37):
resume writing across acrossevery profession is don't
include stuff you want less of.So if you don't wanna do sales,
don't put, like, salesrecruiting, don't include sales
recruiting accomplishment. But,yeah, I really like your
approach. I think tailoringespecially when you have a
clearly defined role, like,you're like, I wanna recruit.
And the variation is within oris across industries.
(15:59):
I think that approach is is aperfect one, exactly what I
would do. Worst case scenario,you have a base resume and then
you might tailor it a little bitdepending or tailor your
accomplishments a little bitdepending on what you want to
attract for your next role. But,yeah, I love your approach.
Rhona Pierce (16:19):
Great. Yeah. I I think and when you mentioned the
the not putting things that youdon't wanna do, I learned that
the hard way because I rememberputting something on a resume.
That was back when I was workingin as a software project
manager. I remember putting atype of project that I
absolutely hated.
Well, guess what? Next job,turns out that they hired me
(16:40):
specifically because of thattype of project. And I was like,
I can't get away from this.
Kamara Toffolo (16:46):
Oh, no.
Rhona Pierce (16:46):
And I didn't say anything, but I remember my
manager saying, like, I'm soexcited to hire you to for this
because we're about to startthis. And I was like, great.
Kamara Toffolo (16:54):
Oh, no. More of the stuff I hate.
Rhona Pierce (16:57):
So there I learned, things I hate, even if
I'm great at them, do not go onmy resume.
Kamara Toffolo (17:03):
That's right. That's right. Just because
you're good at it doesn't meanyou have to do it. Right?
Rhona Pierce (17:07):
Yeah. So let's say a TA professional is targeting a
new industry or a new role.
Kamara Toffolo (17:15):
Mhmm.
Rhona Pierce (17:15):
What are some resume tailoring tips that you
can share in that scenario?
Kamara Toffolo (17:20):
So this really, again, comes back to those
common pain points between therecruiting that we've been doing
and the recruiting that we wantto be doing. So I think earlier
I mentioned about maybe, like,retention being a problem. So
let's say you previouslyrecruited for a profession that
has, like, higher, like, newhigher turnover, but you it's
(17:44):
something that you were able tosolve or or improve upon and
that you're move you're lookingto move into a industry that has
that similar challenge, that'sthat's an example of something
that we would want to highlightas an accomplishment. Are you
wondering about going fromrecruiting into a totally
different profession or justindustries mostly?
Rhona Pierce (18:03):
Yeah. Industries is good. But, for example, what
about a lot of recruiters wannago into, like, employee
experience or employer brandingor HR proper, like HR business
partners. How would you tailorthat? Sure.
Kamara Toffolo (18:19):
So if we're planning on making, like, a
profession change a professioncareer change, we really wanna
focus on translating, so tospeak, the the accomplishments
and experience that we do haveto make sense towards that new
direction. So let's say we wannado recruiting to, as you said,
(18:39):
proper HR, we would really wannamake sure that we are
highlighting instances,especially of strategic work,
where we are building,developing, and implementing
people strategies. So that wouldbe really important. Ways that
we've advised hiring managers onwhatever in order to achieve
(19:00):
what are whatever theirobjectives are and how you help
them achieve that. So reallytaking, say, maybe that straight
recruiting experience and justmorphing it a little bit and
massaging it a little bit sothat someone can understand it
in the HR context as as anexample.
Again, this like, before we doany of this, it really comes
(19:22):
down to that target job.
Rhona Pierce (19:24):
It's all about the targeting, and, I know both you
and I are on the same page onthat, so I know it will come up
many times throughout thisinterview. Yes. But Right. It is
it is something important, andit is something that a lot of
people don't take into account.And to me, it's the most
important thing if you're jobsearch.
You need to know what you'relooking for, what you're
(19:45):
targeting.
Kamara Toffolo (19:46):
Mhmm. Agreed.
Rhona Pierce (19:48):
So TA is very competitive. It always has been,
but even more so now. What aresome unique ways that you think
TA professionals can make theirresume stand out from the rest
of the pile?
Kamara Toffolo (20:02):
I think that the TA recruitment folks who really
stand out from the crowd arethose who are really focused on
upskilling. So staying on top oftechnology innovation, staying
on top of the new tech tools andtrends that are emerging, and
maybe even taking it uponthemselves to engage in
(20:25):
additional professionaldevelopment in order to show
that commitment to staying atthe top of their field. I think
that's really what it's what itcomes down to. Of course, we
wanna show we're qualified andthat we are doing great things
for the business. That'spriority 1.
But when we wanna add to that,that's where we want to consider
(20:46):
kind of those stretchopportunities or or where we've
tried to, again, upskill and andreally stay competitive
ourselves and take it uponourselves to stay competitive. I
think that's really where peopleare standing out.
Rhona Pierce (20:59):
Yeah. And I think it's a way of not only
showcasing that you arequalified for the present role,
but recruiting changes reallyquick. So it's a way to future
proof your resume and show thatit's like, okay. This is what
I've done. This is what I'veaccomplished.
But I'm all I'm someone who'sconstantly learning and
evolving. So I'm not just goingto be good at this thing at
(21:23):
whatever they throw at metomorrow, AI 2.0, whatever. Yep.
I'm gonna be good at it.Absolutely.
How can TA professionalsleverage AI tools in their
resume writing process withoutlosing their unique voice?
Kamara Toffolo (21:42):
I I was having a an extensive conversation about
AI today, actually. I admit thatI have not adopted AI
effectively, and I am not themost knowledgeable person about
AI. And I and this is this is acue to me that I need to to do
more, studying andinvestigation. But when we think
(22:03):
about tools like the Chat GPT,and making use of that for our
resume writing, I like Chat GPTfrom a prompt perspective. I
like using it for ideas, but wecan't use its output directly.
I mean, it's I you you couldprobably speak better into this
than I can, but, like, I knowthat folks are are applying with
(22:27):
Chat GPT resumes that screamChat GPT. Right?
Rhona Pierce (22:32):
Yes. They're doing it, and it's not only non TA job
seekers because that's, to behonest, out of control. But
recruiters are also doing it,and it's like, come on, guys. We
expect more from a recruiterresume, to be honest. And I
don't know if it's fair, but Iknow when I'm hiring, I want to
(22:55):
see, yes, I love that you'reusing AI.
That shows me that you'resomeone that's staying at the
cutting edge and all of that. Donot use those AI buzzwords that
we all know unlock, unleash. Noone before AI, I never saw
anyone unleash anything on theirresume. Like, that's not have
(23:18):
you have you ever seen the wordunleash on a resume before and
using it. Really?
Kamara Toffolo (23:23):
I'm guilty of use I I don't think I used
unlock, but I used unleash, afew times to the but I never
used it in an accomplishment. Soit was more so in branding
statement. So guilty as charged.But that's good to know that
that's a buzzword. But I, yeah,I think there's no way to pull,
(23:44):
recruiter pull the wool overrecruiters and tell tell them
what acquisition professionals'eyes.
Like, you're they're gonna knowif it's it's a direct copy paste
from ChatGPT. Let's just usechat AI and ChatGPT for ideas.
And I think that's that's whereit's safe and also advantageous.
Like, if you're really stuck onwhat can I highlight on my
(24:04):
resume, ask chat gpt and maybeit'll give you some really solid
ideas, and then you come up withthe writing on your own?
Rhona Pierce (24:11):
Yeah. And I I wanna say I did not and I would
never disqualify anyone becauseI can tell that their resume was
written with Chat GPT. What Ican say is I would be way more
critical of the accomplishmentsbecause it's like, are they
real? Like, who fed thisaccomplishment? Did TagTPC
Kamara Toffolo (24:34):
come up
Rhona Pierce (24:34):
with it, or is this a real thing? So it's it's
a resume that I would do a lotmore digging into to be like
Right. Okay. Let's try and findwhat's real, what versus what
isn't real. And that's why Istay away from copy and pasting
from chat gpt because it just Ithink it kind of, like, doesn't
(24:55):
build the trust that you need tobuild with a resume.
It's a quick trust of, like, oh,I wanna know more about this
person. But if you're alreadythinking, is this true? Is this
not true? Mhmm. There's a lotmore digging, and ChatGPT
doesn't necessarily help youanswer those extra digging
(25:16):
questions.
Kamara Toffolo (25:17):
Right. Oh, that's that's such a good point.
Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (25:20):
Let's see. So I wanna provide, like, some
actionable takeaways for ourlisteners. Can you share, like,
3 to 5 key things that every TAprofessional should include on
their resume?
Kamara Toffolo (25:35):
For sure. So there are a few things that I
think all TA professionals andrecruiters should include on
their resume, and I'm gonna boilit down to 3 points, and they
all start with the letter p.Okay? So people, we want
accomplishments that emphasizewhat you've done in terms of
moving a company's peoplestrategy forward. There's
(25:58):
process.
What have you done to improveupon or to completely transform
and overhaul processes that dida better job of enabling a
people strategy forward. Andplatforms, how have you
leveraged the technology thatyour organization uses in order
(26:18):
to help grow teams that furtherenable the business to do what
it's wanting to do. So people,process, and platforms, I think
when we stress accomplishmentsin these three categories, we'll
be able to build a really solid,professional experience section.
Rhona Pierce (26:35):
Perfect. I like that.
Kamara Toffolo (26:37):
Thank you.
Rhona Pierce (26:38):
I think there is one other thing I wanted to ask
that I forgot.
Kamara Toffolo (26:42):
Okay.
Rhona Pierce (26:43):
So with AI becoming more prevalent like, I
just came from a conference fromRecFest, and every HR tech
vendor out there or most of themare talking about AI, AI this,
AI I was like, at one point, oneof the hosts said, like, let's
do AI bingo anytime they theword AI happens because it was
(27:04):
like it was that much that youwere hearing
Kamara Toffolo (27:07):
about it.
Rhona Pierce (27:07):
So, yes, AI is important. I don't think AI is
taking over jobs. Like, I'll putthat out there. But it's
important to know AI and to be,like, knowledgeable of what's
out there. How can someonehighlight AI literacy and
experience with AI tools ontheir resume?
Kamara Toffolo (27:29):
That's a really good question because I've done
a horrible job of of building myown AI literacy. A lot of it
comes down to exploration. Soexploring AI and its
capabilities, not necessarilymaking use of it, but kind of
kind of playing around with itand seeing what it could
(27:49):
possibly do. I also think thatthere is a self study component.
That's what I'm gonna strive todo as well.
There are a lot of courses outthere. Mind you, this is a very
still an emerging concept. Sothe courses, they're still just
scratching the surface at thispoint. But I think there is
benefit to taking some evenfreebie courses on AI as it
(28:14):
relates to HR, AI as it relatesto recruiting and talent
acquisition in order to justbuild your base familiarity with
AI. If we have actually used AIon the job, what we wanna make
sure we do is highlight whatbusiness impact resulted from
that, but we also wanna makesure that we are indicating how
we've used AI responsibly.
(28:36):
Because AI is misunderstood in alot of cases and also can run a
little wild in some cases and isalways subject to scrutiny. So
we just wanna make sure thatwe're indicating the action we
took with the AI, what theresult was of that AI, and how
(28:56):
we made sure to remain compliantin our, you know, from a people
perspective while making use ofthat AI.
Rhona Pierce (29:03):
That's a really good call out, and I hadn't
thought about it. But, yes, as aleader, if I were hiring a
recruiter, yes, I want someonewho's familiar with AI, who has
leveraged it in some way, buthas done it responsibly. I don't
want someone who is so into AIthat next thing I know, every
(29:24):
single job description, offerletter, everything is just going
to be, hey, Chad GPT, do thiswithout looking through stuff
because that's legal liabilitiesand a lot of things we slippery
slope, we don't wanna get into.So that's a really good call
out. Thank you.
(29:45):
So this has been a greatconversation. I know folks are
gonna get a lot of benefit outof it. How can listeners connect
with you?
Kamara Toffolo (29:54):
I am Kamara Toffolo everywhere, but where
I'm most active is LinkedIn andYouTube. So if you just look up
my name, Kamara Toffolo, youwill find me there. Perfect.
Rhona Pierce (30:06):
Thank you so much for being on the show today,
Kamara.
Kamara Toffolo (30:10):
Thank you for having me.
Rhona Pierce (30:12):
Thanks to Kamara for being on the show. Remember,
your resume is not just a listof past jobs. It's a strategic
document that should highlightyour unique value proposition as
a TA professional. I don't knowabout you, but I'm ready for
this nightmare TA job market tobe a thing of the past. Over the
(30:34):
next few weeks, I'm sharingepisodes that will help you get
back in the game.
Be sure to subscribe to throwout the playbook podcast
wherever you get your podcast.And if you liked what you heard
today, please leave a 5 starreview. Reviews help other
listeners find us. Thanks forlistening, and I'll chat with
you next week.
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