May 13, 2025 • 26 mins
If HR wants to shape the future of work, it has to be part of the conversation.
At Transform 2025, I sat down with John Baldino—HR exec, speaker, and co-host of But First, Coffee—to talk about why content isn’t just for marketers anymore. We got into what it really means to stay visible without being performative, and how creating content can help HR leaders build trust, attract talent, and show up as more than a job title.
Whether you’re already posting or still thinking about it, this one’s full of honest perspective and practical advice.
What we talk about:
- Why consistency builds trust
- What “being real” looks like in content
- How leadership starts with showing up for your own voice
****
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🎬 Workfluencer is produced by: Perceptible Studios
Learn how we can help you create content to attract clients, candidates, and opportunities at www.perceptiblestudios.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rhona Pierce (00:00):
What if the secret to authentic content is liking
who you are off camera?
John Baldino (00:05):
I like myself. That's so ridiculous to say out
loud. I know. But I like myself,and so I don't want my brands to
be counter to who I am even if Imight get more clicks.
Rhona Pierce (00:20):
That's John Baldino, HR leader, speaker, and
cohost of But First Coffee. Werecorded this conversation live
at Transform twenty twenty five,and it's one of the most honest
ones I've had on this show.
John Baldino (00:33):
Overselling that every day you're going to be
changing lives is unrealistic.It's a grind. I think that's
okay.
Rhona Pierce (00:41):
We talk about building trust through content,
showing up without pretending,and why being real beats being
performative every time.
John Baldino (00:51):
There's nothing wrong with being a worker bee. I
really, like, wanna make surepeople know that. It's
tremendous. Not everyone can bethe queen.
Rhona Pierce (00:59):
If you've ever wondered how to stay visible and
stay real, this one's for you.
Hey, John. Thank you so, so much for being here
on the show today.
John Baldino (01:10):
Thank you for asking me. It's awesome.
Rhona Pierce (01:12):
How have you enjoyed Transform so far?
John Baldino (01:15):
It is one of my favorites. So but it is. I just
think it's really communitybased, and so there's a lot of
natural conversation thathappens with people. And I enjoy
that, and there's a lot of spaceto be able to do that. Right?
So it makes it really nice to dothat.
Rhona Pierce (01:32):
You do a lot of everything. You've been in HR
for
John Baldino (01:37):
I'm gonna take that as a compliment. Keep
going.
Rhona Pierce (01:39):
Yeah. You've been in you've been in HR for thirty
plus years, but you're also aspeaker, content creator. You
have a amazing live show everyweek. What made you start
creating content?
John Baldino (01:53):
So background, my undergrad major was English. So
communication minor. I likewriting. So many moons ago, and
I still do write a blog, andthat was a great outlet for me.
But from a business standpoint,it also was really smart, to be
honest, because it gaveidentifying themes of the kind
(02:16):
of work that I do, kinds ofvalues that I have in the work
that I do.
And so it just enables for me,it enables organizations to sort
of find out quickly what's thevibe of this person. So it was
both an outlet and served sortof a marketing purpose,
obviously, as an entrepreneur.But through the years, I think
(02:38):
that has changed. It's actuallyreally interesting. The the blog
numbers are down generally.
Right? In our again, not minespecific, but generally, people
are reading less blogs. And sothe video started to be much
more of the consumable mediathat people wanted. And that
medium made sense, right, tosort of lean into a bit more.
(03:01):
And so I've just evolved thosethings.
In many ways, some of the videois is sort of a spoken blog
Yeah. Right, instead of awritten blog. And I just think
it's worked out well. So just bemindful of that genesis, how
things have changed.
Rhona Pierce (03:17):
You kinda touched on it a little. But other than
than than what you mentioned,have you seen any other, like,
benefits or any other impacts,positive or negative, to
creating content on your careerin general?
John Baldino (03:30):
Yeah. And it's and, I mean, I feel like I'm
preaching to the choir, right,because you do such a great job
and do so much content as well.On the negative, which is a
terrible HR thing to do, startwith the negative. But on the
negative, I think that it issometimes seen as influencer
celebrity something, and that'sunfortunate that that might be
(03:51):
sort of the first to dig thatsome people will think of when
they see all of us doing what wedo. I get it, but it's
unfortunate.
And so I think that partlybecause I think there's been
some folks who have done itbriefly, stepped in, stepped
out, stepped in, stepped out. Sothe inconsistency makes it feel
like it's not genuine, if thatmakes sense.
Rhona Pierce (04:11):
Yeah.
John Baldino (04:11):
Right? But I I think much more positively,
though. Genuinely, at least myexperience. I love coming to a
conference, genuinely seeingpeople who are like, oh my gosh.
Your blog last week was onpoint.
Or I saw you and Jackie do myfirst coffee, and I could not
stop laughing, but you weretotally, you know, speaking the
(04:33):
truth. Because we're in manyways, while we are a dispersed
community, we're a smallcommunity. And so for people to
have that kind of connection ina dispersed manner, I think, is
really valuable. And I feel, forme, a sense of responsibility to
it. And so if there is some ofthe negative that might come
(04:55):
with it, I don't think it'sreally as much of a big deal as
all the positive that I see.
Rhona Pierce (05:00):
True. Yeah. Yeah. And and I think it's very like
you, it's been very little,like, negative things. It's more
I think sometimes people thinkthat when you are a creator and
you're all they see is you onLinkedIn, that you're not a
practitioner as well.
And that's so far from itbecause most of us, I would say
90 ish percent, like, highpercentage of us are still
(05:23):
practitioners.
John Baldino (05:25):
Yeah. And and it's funny because it's a great point
because I'm I'm an entrepreneur,but I'm an entrepreneur who runs
an HR consulting firm
Rhona Pierce (05:33):
Exactly.
John Baldino (05:34):
In the weeds of HR day to day. But if all you know
of me, and I understand thatthis is the give and get, if all
of you know of me is sort ofthat persona. You know, you do
the show. You write this blog.You speak at all these
conferences.
If that's all you know of me,then I can appreciate that it is
(05:54):
two dimensional.
Rhona Pierce (05:55):
Yeah.
John Baldino (05:56):
But my encouragement is always be
discerning. Really vet thecontent. Right? Yeah. Just
because somebody says it doesn'tmean it's true.
It's like the Internet. Exactly.Just because you Google it and
something comes up doesn't meanit's right. I would say the same
thing has to hold true, which iswhy from a content standpoint,
(06:18):
one of the things that I thinkis extraordinarily important is
consistency and continuity. Ifit's a flash in the pan, then I
can appreciate why people don'tfind that to be as valuable.
But if if there's a thread of, Ihave read Baldino's blog for a
dozen years. I get his voice. Ihear his voice when I'm reading
(06:42):
this. I know that what he'ssharing is based on what he has
traveled in the HR world. It'snot conjecture, and we're not
angry.
And we're not angry. Yeah.Right? Yeah. And I think anger
sometimes has been used as sortof a marketing ploy with some of
the content that's created.
(07:03):
That's unfortunate.
Rhona Pierce (07:04):
Agree. Yeah. It's it's just, I mean and I try to
be respectful of everyone'sstyles because that is a style.
I have a I have a client. He'snot in our space.
Yeah. But that's, like, hiswhole thing. He's very not
angry, I should say. But it'slike going against everything in
his industry, and he's extremelysuccessful. But that also you
have to do that strategically.
(07:25):
You can't just be angry on theInternet.
John Baldino (07:27):
Yes. Yes. It's so funny you're saying this. Right?
Because I think part of this toois I like myself.
That's so ridiculous to say outloud. I know. But I like myself,
and so I don't want my brand tobe counter to who I am even if I
might get more clicks orengagement. Do know what I mean?
(07:50):
And it would be so inauthenticfor me to be the angry Baldino.
Rhona Pierce (07:55):
And then everyone meets you, and you're such a
happy person that yeah. It wouldbe to me, the biggest nightmare
would be for someone to meet meat a conference and be like,
John Baldino (08:05):
oh. Right.
Rhona Pierce (08:06):
The first thing people usually say is like, oh,
you're just like you're online.Well, how else would I be?
Right.
John Baldino (08:12):
Right. And your facial expression. So, oh. Yeah.
It's like that's no.
I don't want that. I want and Iwill tell you, for me, that's
probably one of the highestcompliments I can be given is
you are who we see. You are whowe read.
Rhona Pierce (08:27):
Exactly. Exactly. HR leaders, they're used to I
think we're used to being behindthe scenes. HR is never the on
the forefront. Well, AI ischanging these things for us
because, like, now everyonewants our opinion Yes.
And everything.
John Baldino (08:43):
Yes.
Rhona Pierce (08:43):
But we're used to being behind the scenes. And I
think when I speak to people,that's a lot of why they don't
necessarily want to createcontent because they feel that
our place is, like, behind thescenes. What would you say to
someone who who says that, like,no. As an HR person, I just
wanna, like, stay back. I don'twanna be out there.
John Baldino (09:01):
Probably two things come to mind. First,
okay. Because we we do, and weneed certain people to be behind
the scenes. Worker bees. There'snothing wrong with being a
worker bee.
I really, like, wanna make surepeople know that. It's
tremendous. Not everyone can bethe queen. Exactly. That causes
a lot of problems in someorganizations when everyone
(09:24):
wants to be queen.
Right? Yeah. So I think we needto celebrate people who know
themselves enough to say, Ireally would like to serve. It's
I have a servant heart. I likebeing awesome.
I don't wanna make someone feelbadly about that. But I would
say if if the reason thatthey're doing it is fear, so
asking some good discerningquestions with that person to
(09:46):
determine if it's reallypersonality vibe versus fear. I
think there's wisdom in that.Fear can be because it's
unknown. I've never donesomething like this before.
I'm an introvert, so therefore,I must serve behind the scenes.
Well, that's actually not thesame thing.
Rhona Pierce (10:06):
Exactly. Right?
John Baldino (10:07):
So being with people in their statement and
then saying, tell me more aboutthat, where does that come from?
Have you had an experience whereyou tried, and what happened?
You know, those and really justwalk people back and be like, oh
my gosh. You you spoke at anevent once, and it all went
terrible. You are not alone.
Let me tell you about the 10times I've done it, and it's
(10:29):
gone terrible. But I got back upand tried and just trying to be
that encouragement to people.
Rhona Pierce (10:35):
Do you think that I don't know if I wanna say we
have a responsibility, but let'sstart this way. We have a
perception problem with HR andTA. We really do. And I think
part of what the rise of contentcreators in our space has done
is peel back and like, hey,people. This is the type of work
that we do.
So I think it helps with ourperception problem. Do you think
(10:59):
that's kind of like something weshould lean on or a
responsibility per se that wehave of helping? Because, yeah,
some people are like, no. Iwanna stay behind the scenes,
but it's like, but they alsowanna change the perception of
HR.
John Baldino (11:14):
Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (11:14):
Would you encourage them to start creating
content?
John Baldino (11:17):
Not everyone. Okay. Yeah. It's a fair
question. Not everyone sometimesand I think we're seeing a bit
of this, in my opinion, now isthat the amount of content
creation that's going on canreally sort of bottleneck, and
you're not sure who to listen toor how much of it to listen to
(11:38):
or, you know, this week, so andso, next week, this one.
And it can become daunting. Andwe have to remember that the
average HR practitioner, I thinkvery confidently, I can say
this, does not have hours uponhours each week to just sit back
and listen to us go on abouteverything. So if there are
people though, to come back toyour question though, if there
(11:59):
are people that we should be anencouragement to, I like the
idea of trying to do that tostart in bite size ways. Start
in house. Have someone dosomething bite size, ten minutes
with a small group of people.
And that person, that might beterrifying to start with. Okay.
Be afraid. And then breathethrough it. And take the twenty
(12:22):
minutes with these this smallgroup of people that you're
talking about benefits with.
I don't know. Whatever practicalthing it can be, just start with
something comfortable. I don'thave to tell you, okay. You've
got twenty minutes to talk aboutthe three criteria for picking
HR technology. What?
Wait. Why would you do that tosomeone? Right? Let them start
(12:43):
with something they're familiarwith.
Rhona Pierce (12:44):
I think when we talk about content creation,
people think LinkedIn,Instagram. Yes. There's a lot of
content creation that you can doas a practitioner internally.
Amen. Like, your internal commsteam wants the content.
They can help you, like, lean onthis, work with these people
that I've always
John Baldino (13:04):
helped safest audience.
Rhona Pierce (13:06):
Yes.
John Baldino (13:07):
If you and I work together in human resources in
an organization, and my mouth isalways going, Let's try to
imagine that. My mouth is alwaysgoing. And I turn to you and
say, Okay, your turn. Wait,what? Your frame of reference
is, I'm asking you to do it justlike I do it.
That's not good. What I wannasay is, you've got ten minutes
(13:28):
to talk about benefits. What doyou wanna talk about
Rhona Pierce (13:31):
Exactly.
John Baldino (13:32):
With these few people? What makes the most
sense for you? They never fillout the enrollment form
correctly. Okay. Then let'sstart with that.
Yes.
Rhona Pierce (13:40):
Let's teach that. Amazing. Amazing. So a lot of
content is created really toattract talent. Let's face it.
Like, yes, we're educatingpeople and everything, but we're
also attracting talent. Whatmistakes have you seen HR
leaders do when they startcreating content for talent
attraction purposes?
John Baldino (14:01):
What a good question. What a good question.
I'm gonna align talentattraction purpose in some ways
with sales purpose becausesometimes content is created for
business development as well.And I'm aligning them because in
talent attraction, there's a bitof salesperson ship that has to
(14:24):
happen. You're selling thecompany, right, to qualified
talent that you want to work inyour organization.
Okay. I'll take that businessdevelopment angle with it. I
think sometimes the mistakesthat are made are overselling.
It isn't always wonderful towork at your company. It's just
not.
(14:44):
It's just not. It's just not. Itdoesn't mean it's terrible. The
opposite doesn't have to be whatwe emphasize, but there are some
days I'm just doing the grind.Did I leave after eight hours
feeling like I've accomplishedsome things?
Maybe yes. Maybe I'm like,shoot. I've my to do list
carried over to tomorrow, butit's a grind. I think that's
(15:05):
okay. Overselling that every dayyou're going to be changing
lives is unrealistic.
Rhona Pierce (15:12):
I still remember the face of the hiring manager
when I started, like, creatingvideos with him, and I was in
house. And I, okay. We're gonnasit down, and we're gonna do
this video for talentattraction. I asked all the the
normal questions, and I said,what sucks about this job? Like,
I Right?
That we did a blooper that Ishared. It was like, wait. What?
(15:33):
Yeah. I'm like, no.
No. No. Yeah. We're this is aserious question we're talking
about in this, and this is gonnabe part of the video.
John Baldino (15:38):
And after the initial shock of being asked the
question, then usually the nextthought is, oh, I can't say what
I think Yeah. No. It's like I'mgonna get fired, or I'm gonna
get in trouble. And it's like,wow. We no.
I really need to know why onthose days. And I think that,
again, coming back to the theprevious question, if you're
working in a particular industrywhere every day is not hearts
(16:01):
and rainbows, then let's givepeople the right realistic job
preview on the content thatwe're creating. I'm not saying
that we walk around again sayingeverything is awful. But if
you're an educator, as anexample, in a school system,
there are days where the thestudents aren't wonderful. I was
not a wonderful student everyday, so I know what I'm saying
(16:23):
has some merit of truth to it.
So if I just show that here'sall of our educators every day
achieving a % success in contentdelivery, education, and
receptivity, my gosh. That is ahigh bar for a teacher to think
is gonna happen. And when ateacher sees that as what it
(16:45):
might be like to transferdistricts to work somewhere
else, honestly, that talent willself select out because I don't
teach. That's not true for me.They'll never want me.
That's awful. You potentiallymissed out on a wonderful,
wonderful person to be a part ofyour school district because you
set it up at such a level theyself select it out. Silly. Why
(17:07):
do that?
Rhona Pierce (17:08):
And also, if they've been working, if they've
been in the industry longenough, they know it's not true.
Correct. Like, so why spend allthis time and money Right.
Trying to paint this beautifulpicture? Like, most of your
people aren't gonna believe thatunless they're new to the
industry.
They might be like, oh, maybe.Anyone who's been in the
industry is gonna know it'slike, no.
John Baldino (17:27):
That's not how it is. Reason why they'll self
select because that's not true.I don't wanna be a part of a
district that tries to sellthis. And so, again, another
reason to self select. Why arewe doing this?
Rhona Pierce (17:40):
Exactly. What can we in our industry learn about
other content creators and howthey create content when it
comes to, like, talentattraction? So what can we learn
from creators outside of ourindustry?
John Baldino (17:54):
One, creativity. I think it's okay to be a bit on
the edge with some things. And Idon't mean on the edge like you
spell language. That's not onthe edge. Give me a break.
But on the edge of, like, theway it's filmed, the way it's
produced, the messaging thatcomes with it, who's delivering
(18:16):
the messages. If it's the sameone or two people, I just think
we need to be more creativeabout it. Yeah. I think the
visual arts is another area tobe thoughtful of. Does it always
have to be sort of verbaloverlay on a video shot?
Can someone actually createsomething, paint something,
sculpt something? And it's like,no. No. Well, we do we're a
(18:39):
manufacturing company. So what?
So what? You don't think youhave people in in your
establishment that are creative?Yeah. Did you ever ask? I've had
people come in and they do likemetal sculpture, and people are
like, I didn't know you didthat.
Right. So let's start askingpeople. Right? So I think
creativity has to be number one.The other thing that I would say
(19:00):
from an innovation standpoint isbe wise about platform and forum
for where this content is going.
Not everything should beeverywhere. If you are posting
the same thing on six socialmedia platforms that and you're
like, man, we're not getting thenumbers. Well, you're diluting
your content. It's the samestuff everywhere. Be thoughtful
(19:22):
about this is the kind ofcontent we want on Instagram,
and this is the kind of contentwe want on x or blue sky or what
you know?
Yeah. Be thoughtful about havingsome differentiation there for
sure.
Rhona Pierce (19:34):
Yeah. I think there's a lot that we can learn.
I know I personally look atpeople in other like, creators
in other industries becausethere's so much to learn from.
If we look at our own littlebubble and we all do the same
thing, then we're all gonna losebecause it's like we're all
gonna start sounding and anddoing the same exact things. And
there's so like, in this worldthat we live in now, it's all
(19:57):
about content.
All about, like, the marketing.So there's so much to learn
from.
John Baldino (20:01):
So much. Yeah. And and cross to exactly your point,
look outside of HR. Right? Howdoes it happen on Twitch?
How does it happen on Snapchat?Like
Rhona Pierce (20:11):
And you know the thing is, we're trying to
attract people who are most ofus aren't trying to hire other
HR people or other TA people. Sowhy are we catering our content
to what we like
John Baldino (20:22):
Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (20:22):
And how we consume?
John Baldino (20:24):
Yes.
Rhona Pierce (20:24):
Think about the people that you're trying to
attract. So the softwareengineers, they're not on
LinkedIn. Like, when I washiring software engineers, I
didn't even post on LinkedIn.
John Baldino (20:35):
Because they don't want they're harassed so much
that they've all gotten off.Right?
Rhona Pierce (20:40):
I was on Twitter back on the day in the day.
Yeah. That's where they were.That that's where you go hang
out. So
John Baldino (20:46):
Yeah. And I think that you have to also think
about the audience you need. SoI'll give you a for example, if
you're in the casino industry.That's a good one. If you're in
the casino industry, you mighthave a vibe that wants, second
career people, retired peoplewho wanna work part time in a
(21:07):
fun environment, and so they'relooking for a little bit extra.
Okay. You may wanna post a lotmore on Facebook than on
Snapchat for those jobs becausethat's where that audience will
sit a bit more there. Be wise.
Rhona Pierce (21:20):
Yeah. I always say, think like a marketer. And
if you don't know how to thinklike a marketer, talk to your
marketing They will, like, ask amarketer
Right. Idea.
John Baldino (21:30):
Isn't that shocking?
Rhona Pierce (21:31):
They will sit there for hours, and they'll
tell you all about it. Leveragein the people that you have.
John Baldino (21:38):
I'm trying to market these jobs. Did you talk
to anybody in marketing? No.
Rhona Pierce (21:42):
It's what they do all day. It's what they do all
day. And we found them. We know,like, their strength and
everything.
John Baldino (21:50):
Admire them. Right.
Rhona Pierce (21:51):
And then we're like, don't use them when we
need it. It's like, come on.
John Baldino (21:54):
It's such a good blog.
Rhona Pierce (21:55):
Yeah. So what types of content do you find
that have been, like, the mostsuccessful for you in, like,
attracting opportunities?Because a lot of us also do this
to get speaking engagements andthings like that.
John Baldino (22:07):
I'm gonna come out of two different ways. One way
is, in my opinion, the moreauthentic that you are, the more
engagement that you'll have, andthe more likely that it will be
seen as a a standout so thatconference organizers and I will
say things like there are peoplewho so Transform, since we're
(22:28):
here, is a great example. SoTransform has launched about 10
communities across The UnitedStates right now. There's more
in other countries. They'regonna launch another 10 in the
next few months.
That could be a great spot tostart to sort of practice some
things with a smaller community.Right? Yeah. And so test some
things out. Don't be afraid tobe authentic in those moments
(22:50):
of, I'm gonna take fifteenminutes with my small community
and test this thing out and getfeedback from those folks
because you're being authentic.
That then becomes attractive,and your own community is then
gonna talk to the next communityto say, oh my gosh. John spoke,
and he did this twenty minutething. You ought to see if he
(23:11):
would drive over and do that atyour community. Right? It's
authentic.
It stands out to people becauseit feels genuine because it is.
So that's one side I would sayfor me, I find that I'm drawn
the most to people that operatein that kind of authenticity.
Honestly, if you come across asfake to me, I'm not gonna be
mean to you, but I may notconnect to what it is that
(23:33):
you're delivering. It doesn'tfeel genuine. On a sort of
practical side, though, as well,be willing to be on video.
Yeah. Be willing to be on videobecause those moments, at this
point, if you're gonnaproactively submit on a call for
speakers for some conferences,they wanna see something. They
want to see something. Theydon't wanna just hear that you
(23:57):
spoke at x whatever it wasbecause that doesn't mean you
were great, and video is tooaccessible. So if you don't have
video to share, I'm telling you,they're less likely to believe
and take the risk.
Rhona Pierce (24:10):
Yeah. I mean, it's like, if you want someone to pay
you or or just invite you to besomewhere in person talking, you
can't submit blogs and like,yeah, it's fine that you write,
but they don't know how thattranslates into you. But a
video, they can see like, oh,this is an engaging person.
Yeah. This is someone that I canbring to my stage.
John Baldino (24:32):
And there are people that get upset about
that. I've written this blog fortwenty years, and I I will say,
I know. I it's a wonderful blog.They don't know what your
presence is like. Exactly.
How you'll deliver thatinformation in person. A video
gives them insight into that. Mywife is a writer. Okay. She's
(24:57):
awesome.
She would never wanna get onstage with what she's written to
deliver it. It's not her top 10.She has done it, but it's not
her top 10. Okay. So justbecause somebody wrote it
doesn't mean that a conferenceorganizer thinks you want to
deliver it.
Rhona Pierce (25:13):
Exactly. Amazing. So this has been a great
conversation. I I really lovehow you've been open and, like,
honest, but not that I wouldever think that you wouldn't be
with us. And I'm sure people aregonna wanna, like, follow along
and learn more about you.
So where can listeners connectwith you?
John Baldino (25:29):
First of all, thank you. It's a very kind
obviously, LinkedIn that youmentioned. Yeah. Kind of on
there a little bit. So please goto LinkedIn, John Baldino HR.
I'm gonna come up first thing.Please connect with me there.
I'm happy to engage.
Rhona Pierce (25:44):
Amazing. Thank you so much, John.
Thanks again to John for joining me live at
Transform and keeping it real inthe best possible way. If this
episode gave you something tothink about or reminded you that
it's okay to show up as you are,I'd love it if you share it with
someone else who needs to hearit. And make sure you're
following the show because nextweek, I'm sitting down with
(26:07):
Trent Cotton, and we're goingdeep into the world of AI, how
it's reshaping recruiting, howto use it for content creation,
and why your authentic voicestill matters more than ever
before. Workfluencer is producedby Perceptible Studios. Learn
more about how we can help youattract, engage, and retain
qualified talent atperceptiblestudios.com.
(26:30):
If you're enjoying theWorkfluencer pod, share it with
someone who's changing how wetalk about work or who should
be. And, hey, if this episodegave you ideas or inspiration,
leave us a five star review.Reviews help other listeners
find us, and, honestly, theymake my day. Thanks for
listening, and I'll chat withyou next week.
What if the secret to authentic content is liking
who you are off camera?
John Baldino (00:05):
I like myself. That's so ridiculous to say out
loud. I know. But I like myself,and so I don't want my brands to
be counter to who I am even if Imight get more clicks.
Rhona Pierce (00:20):
That's John Baldino, HR leader, speaker, and
cohost of But First Coffee. Werecorded this conversation live
at Transform twenty twenty five,and it's one of the most honest
ones I've had on this show.
John Baldino (00:33):
Overselling that every day you're going to be
changing lives is unrealistic.It's a grind. I think that's
okay.
Rhona Pierce (00:41):
We talk about building trust through content,
showing up without pretending,and why being real beats being
performative every time.
John Baldino (00:51):
There's nothing wrong with being a worker bee. I
really, like, wanna make surepeople know that. It's
tremendous. Not everyone can bethe queen.
Rhona Pierce (00:59):
If you've ever wondered how to stay visible and
stay real, this one's for you.
Hey, John. Thank you so, so much for being here
on the show today.
John Baldino (01:10):
Thank you for asking me. It's awesome.
Rhona Pierce (01:12):
How have you enjoyed Transform so far?
John Baldino (01:15):
It is one of my favorites. So but it is. I just
think it's really communitybased, and so there's a lot of
natural conversation thathappens with people. And I enjoy
that, and there's a lot of spaceto be able to do that. Right?
So it makes it really nice to dothat.
Rhona Pierce (01:32):
You do a lot of everything. You've been in HR
for
John Baldino (01:37):
I'm gonna take that as a compliment. Keep
going.
Rhona Pierce (01:39):
Yeah. You've been in you've been in HR for thirty
plus years, but you're also aspeaker, content creator. You
have a amazing live show everyweek. What made you start
creating content?
John Baldino (01:53):
So background, my undergrad major was English. So
communication minor. I likewriting. So many moons ago, and
I still do write a blog, andthat was a great outlet for me.
But from a business standpoint,it also was really smart, to be
honest, because it gaveidentifying themes of the kind
(02:16):
of work that I do, kinds ofvalues that I have in the work
that I do.
And so it just enables for me,it enables organizations to sort
of find out quickly what's thevibe of this person. So it was
both an outlet and served sortof a marketing purpose,
obviously, as an entrepreneur.But through the years, I think
(02:38):
that has changed. It's actuallyreally interesting. The the blog
numbers are down generally.
Right? In our again, not minespecific, but generally, people
are reading less blogs. And sothe video started to be much
more of the consumable mediathat people wanted. And that
medium made sense, right, tosort of lean into a bit more.
(03:01):
And so I've just evolved thosethings.
In many ways, some of the videois is sort of a spoken blog
Yeah. Right, instead of awritten blog. And I just think
it's worked out well. So just bemindful of that genesis, how
things have changed.
Rhona Pierce (03:17):
You kinda touched on it a little. But other than
than than what you mentioned,have you seen any other, like,
benefits or any other impacts,positive or negative, to
creating content on your careerin general?
John Baldino (03:30):
Yeah. And it's and, I mean, I feel like I'm
preaching to the choir, right,because you do such a great job
and do so much content as well.On the negative, which is a
terrible HR thing to do, startwith the negative. But on the
negative, I think that it issometimes seen as influencer
celebrity something, and that'sunfortunate that that might be
(03:51):
sort of the first to dig thatsome people will think of when
they see all of us doing what wedo. I get it, but it's
unfortunate.
And so I think that partlybecause I think there's been
some folks who have done itbriefly, stepped in, stepped
out, stepped in, stepped out. Sothe inconsistency makes it feel
like it's not genuine, if thatmakes sense.
Rhona Pierce (04:11):
Yeah.
John Baldino (04:11):
Right? But I I think much more positively,
though. Genuinely, at least myexperience. I love coming to a
conference, genuinely seeingpeople who are like, oh my gosh.
Your blog last week was onpoint.
Or I saw you and Jackie do myfirst coffee, and I could not
stop laughing, but you weretotally, you know, speaking the
(04:33):
truth. Because we're in manyways, while we are a dispersed
community, we're a smallcommunity. And so for people to
have that kind of connection ina dispersed manner, I think, is
really valuable. And I feel, forme, a sense of responsibility to
it. And so if there is some ofthe negative that might come
(04:55):
with it, I don't think it'sreally as much of a big deal as
all the positive that I see.
Rhona Pierce (05:00):
True. Yeah. Yeah. And and I think it's very like
you, it's been very little,like, negative things. It's more
I think sometimes people thinkthat when you are a creator and
you're all they see is you onLinkedIn, that you're not a
practitioner as well.
And that's so far from itbecause most of us, I would say
90 ish percent, like, highpercentage of us are still
(05:23):
practitioners.
John Baldino (05:25):
Yeah. And and it's funny because it's a great point
because I'm I'm an entrepreneur,but I'm an entrepreneur who runs
an HR consulting firm
Rhona Pierce (05:33):
Exactly.
John Baldino (05:34):
In the weeds of HR day to day. But if all you know
of me, and I understand thatthis is the give and get, if all
of you know of me is sort ofthat persona. You know, you do
the show. You write this blog.You speak at all these
conferences.
If that's all you know of me,then I can appreciate that it is
(05:54):
two dimensional.
Rhona Pierce (05:55):
Yeah.
John Baldino (05:56):
But my encouragement is always be
discerning. Really vet thecontent. Right? Yeah. Just
because somebody says it doesn'tmean it's true.
It's like the Internet. Exactly.Just because you Google it and
something comes up doesn't meanit's right. I would say the same
thing has to hold true, which iswhy from a content standpoint,
(06:18):
one of the things that I thinkis extraordinarily important is
consistency and continuity. Ifit's a flash in the pan, then I
can appreciate why people don'tfind that to be as valuable.
But if if there's a thread of, Ihave read Baldino's blog for a
dozen years. I get his voice. Ihear his voice when I'm reading
(06:42):
this. I know that what he'ssharing is based on what he has
traveled in the HR world. It'snot conjecture, and we're not
angry.
And we're not angry. Yeah.Right? Yeah. And I think anger
sometimes has been used as sortof a marketing ploy with some of
the content that's created.
(07:03):
That's unfortunate.
Rhona Pierce (07:04):
Agree. Yeah. It's it's just, I mean and I try to
be respectful of everyone'sstyles because that is a style.
I have a I have a client. He'snot in our space.
Yeah. But that's, like, hiswhole thing. He's very not
angry, I should say. But it'slike going against everything in
his industry, and he's extremelysuccessful. But that also you
have to do that strategically.
(07:25):
You can't just be angry on theInternet.
John Baldino (07:27):
Yes. Yes. It's so funny you're saying this. Right?
Because I think part of this toois I like myself.
That's so ridiculous to say outloud. I know. But I like myself,
and so I don't want my brand tobe counter to who I am even if I
might get more clicks orengagement. Do know what I mean?
(07:50):
And it would be so inauthenticfor me to be the angry Baldino.
Rhona Pierce (07:55):
And then everyone meets you, and you're such a
happy person that yeah. It wouldbe to me, the biggest nightmare
would be for someone to meet meat a conference and be like,
John Baldino (08:05):
oh. Right.
Rhona Pierce (08:06):
The first thing people usually say is like, oh,
you're just like you're online.Well, how else would I be?
Right.
John Baldino (08:12):
Right. And your facial expression. So, oh. Yeah.
It's like that's no.
I don't want that. I want and Iwill tell you, for me, that's
probably one of the highestcompliments I can be given is
you are who we see. You are whowe read.
Rhona Pierce (08:27):
Exactly. Exactly. HR leaders, they're used to I
think we're used to being behindthe scenes. HR is never the on
the forefront. Well, AI ischanging these things for us
because, like, now everyonewants our opinion Yes.
And everything.
John Baldino (08:43):
Yes.
Rhona Pierce (08:43):
But we're used to being behind the scenes. And I
think when I speak to people,that's a lot of why they don't
necessarily want to createcontent because they feel that
our place is, like, behind thescenes. What would you say to
someone who who says that, like,no. As an HR person, I just
wanna, like, stay back. I don'twanna be out there.
John Baldino (09:01):
Probably two things come to mind. First,
okay. Because we we do, and weneed certain people to be behind
the scenes. Worker bees. There'snothing wrong with being a
worker bee.
I really, like, wanna make surepeople know that. It's
tremendous. Not everyone can bethe queen. Exactly. That causes
a lot of problems in someorganizations when everyone
(09:24):
wants to be queen.
Right? Yeah. So I think we needto celebrate people who know
themselves enough to say, Ireally would like to serve. It's
I have a servant heart. I likebeing awesome.
I don't wanna make someone feelbadly about that. But I would
say if if the reason thatthey're doing it is fear, so
asking some good discerningquestions with that person to
(09:46):
determine if it's reallypersonality vibe versus fear. I
think there's wisdom in that.Fear can be because it's
unknown. I've never donesomething like this before.
I'm an introvert, so therefore,I must serve behind the scenes.
Well, that's actually not thesame thing.
Rhona Pierce (10:06):
Exactly. Right?
John Baldino (10:07):
So being with people in their statement and
then saying, tell me more aboutthat, where does that come from?
Have you had an experience whereyou tried, and what happened?
You know, those and really justwalk people back and be like, oh
my gosh. You you spoke at anevent once, and it all went
terrible. You are not alone.
Let me tell you about the 10times I've done it, and it's
(10:29):
gone terrible. But I got back upand tried and just trying to be
that encouragement to people.
Rhona Pierce (10:35):
Do you think that I don't know if I wanna say we
have a responsibility, but let'sstart this way. We have a
perception problem with HR andTA. We really do. And I think
part of what the rise of contentcreators in our space has done
is peel back and like, hey,people. This is the type of work
that we do.
So I think it helps with ourperception problem. Do you think
(10:59):
that's kind of like something weshould lean on or a
responsibility per se that wehave of helping? Because, yeah,
some people are like, no. Iwanna stay behind the scenes,
but it's like, but they alsowanna change the perception of
HR.
John Baldino (11:14):
Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (11:14):
Would you encourage them to start creating
content?
John Baldino (11:17):
Not everyone. Okay. Yeah. It's a fair
question. Not everyone sometimesand I think we're seeing a bit
of this, in my opinion, now isthat the amount of content
creation that's going on canreally sort of bottleneck, and
you're not sure who to listen toor how much of it to listen to
(11:38):
or, you know, this week, so andso, next week, this one.
And it can become daunting. Andwe have to remember that the
average HR practitioner, I thinkvery confidently, I can say
this, does not have hours uponhours each week to just sit back
and listen to us go on abouteverything. So if there are
people though, to come back toyour question though, if there
(11:59):
are people that we should be anencouragement to, I like the
idea of trying to do that tostart in bite size ways. Start
in house. Have someone dosomething bite size, ten minutes
with a small group of people.
And that person, that might beterrifying to start with. Okay.
Be afraid. And then breathethrough it. And take the twenty
(12:22):
minutes with these this smallgroup of people that you're
talking about benefits with.
I don't know. Whatever practicalthing it can be, just start with
something comfortable. I don'thave to tell you, okay. You've
got twenty minutes to talk aboutthe three criteria for picking
HR technology. What?
Wait. Why would you do that tosomeone? Right? Let them start
(12:43):
with something they're familiarwith.
Rhona Pierce (12:44):
I think when we talk about content creation,
people think LinkedIn,Instagram. Yes. There's a lot of
content creation that you can doas a practitioner internally.
Amen. Like, your internal commsteam wants the content.
They can help you, like, lean onthis, work with these people
that I've always
John Baldino (13:04):
helped safest audience.
Rhona Pierce (13:06):
Yes.
John Baldino (13:07):
If you and I work together in human resources in
an organization, and my mouth isalways going, Let's try to
imagine that. My mouth is alwaysgoing. And I turn to you and
say, Okay, your turn. Wait,what? Your frame of reference
is, I'm asking you to do it justlike I do it.
That's not good. What I wannasay is, you've got ten minutes
(13:28):
to talk about benefits. What doyou wanna talk about
Rhona Pierce (13:31):
Exactly.
John Baldino (13:32):
With these few people? What makes the most
sense for you? They never fillout the enrollment form
correctly. Okay. Then let'sstart with that.
Yes.
Rhona Pierce (13:40):
Let's teach that. Amazing. Amazing. So a lot of
content is created really toattract talent. Let's face it.
Like, yes, we're educatingpeople and everything, but we're
also attracting talent. Whatmistakes have you seen HR
leaders do when they startcreating content for talent
attraction purposes?
John Baldino (14:01):
What a good question. What a good question.
I'm gonna align talentattraction purpose in some ways
with sales purpose becausesometimes content is created for
business development as well.And I'm aligning them because in
talent attraction, there's a bitof salesperson ship that has to
(14:24):
happen. You're selling thecompany, right, to qualified
talent that you want to work inyour organization.
Okay. I'll take that businessdevelopment angle with it. I
think sometimes the mistakesthat are made are overselling.
It isn't always wonderful towork at your company. It's just
not.
(14:44):
It's just not. It's just not. Itdoesn't mean it's terrible. The
opposite doesn't have to be whatwe emphasize, but there are some
days I'm just doing the grind.Did I leave after eight hours
feeling like I've accomplishedsome things?
Maybe yes. Maybe I'm like,shoot. I've my to do list
carried over to tomorrow, butit's a grind. I think that's
(15:05):
okay. Overselling that every dayyou're going to be changing
lives is unrealistic.
Rhona Pierce (15:12):
I still remember the face of the hiring manager
when I started, like, creatingvideos with him, and I was in
house. And I, okay. We're gonnasit down, and we're gonna do
this video for talentattraction. I asked all the the
normal questions, and I said,what sucks about this job? Like,
I Right?
That we did a blooper that Ishared. It was like, wait. What?
(15:33):
Yeah. I'm like, no.
No. No. Yeah. We're this is aserious question we're talking
about in this, and this is gonnabe part of the video.
John Baldino (15:38):
And after the initial shock of being asked the
question, then usually the nextthought is, oh, I can't say what
I think Yeah. No. It's like I'mgonna get fired, or I'm gonna
get in trouble. And it's like,wow. We no.
I really need to know why onthose days. And I think that,
again, coming back to the theprevious question, if you're
working in a particular industrywhere every day is not hearts
(16:01):
and rainbows, then let's givepeople the right realistic job
preview on the content thatwe're creating. I'm not saying
that we walk around again sayingeverything is awful. But if
you're an educator, as anexample, in a school system,
there are days where the thestudents aren't wonderful. I was
not a wonderful student everyday, so I know what I'm saying
(16:23):
has some merit of truth to it.
So if I just show that here'sall of our educators every day
achieving a % success in contentdelivery, education, and
receptivity, my gosh. That is ahigh bar for a teacher to think
is gonna happen. And when ateacher sees that as what it
(16:45):
might be like to transferdistricts to work somewhere
else, honestly, that talent willself select out because I don't
teach. That's not true for me.They'll never want me.
That's awful. You potentiallymissed out on a wonderful,
wonderful person to be a part ofyour school district because you
set it up at such a level theyself select it out. Silly. Why
(17:07):
do that?
Rhona Pierce (17:08):
And also, if they've been working, if they've
been in the industry longenough, they know it's not true.
Correct. Like, so why spend allthis time and money Right.
Trying to paint this beautifulpicture? Like, most of your
people aren't gonna believe thatunless they're new to the
industry.
They might be like, oh, maybe.Anyone who's been in the
industry is gonna know it'slike, no.
John Baldino (17:27):
That's not how it is. Reason why they'll self
select because that's not true.I don't wanna be a part of a
district that tries to sellthis. And so, again, another
reason to self select. Why arewe doing this?
Rhona Pierce (17:40):
Exactly. What can we in our industry learn about
other content creators and howthey create content when it
comes to, like, talentattraction? So what can we learn
from creators outside of ourindustry?
John Baldino (17:54):
One, creativity. I think it's okay to be a bit on
the edge with some things. And Idon't mean on the edge like you
spell language. That's not onthe edge. Give me a break.
But on the edge of, like, theway it's filmed, the way it's
produced, the messaging thatcomes with it, who's delivering
(18:16):
the messages. If it's the sameone or two people, I just think
we need to be more creativeabout it. Yeah. I think the
visual arts is another area tobe thoughtful of. Does it always
have to be sort of verbaloverlay on a video shot?
Can someone actually createsomething, paint something,
sculpt something? And it's like,no. No. Well, we do we're a
(18:39):
manufacturing company. So what?
So what? You don't think youhave people in in your
establishment that are creative?Yeah. Did you ever ask? I've had
people come in and they do likemetal sculpture, and people are
like, I didn't know you didthat.
Right. So let's start askingpeople. Right? So I think
creativity has to be number one.The other thing that I would say
(19:00):
from an innovation standpoint isbe wise about platform and forum
for where this content is going.
Not everything should beeverywhere. If you are posting
the same thing on six socialmedia platforms that and you're
like, man, we're not getting thenumbers. Well, you're diluting
your content. It's the samestuff everywhere. Be thoughtful
(19:22):
about this is the kind ofcontent we want on Instagram,
and this is the kind of contentwe want on x or blue sky or what
you know?
Yeah. Be thoughtful about havingsome differentiation there for
sure.
Rhona Pierce (19:34):
Yeah. I think there's a lot that we can learn.
I know I personally look atpeople in other like, creators
in other industries becausethere's so much to learn from.
If we look at our own littlebubble and we all do the same
thing, then we're all gonna losebecause it's like we're all
gonna start sounding and anddoing the same exact things. And
there's so like, in this worldthat we live in now, it's all
(19:57):
about content.
All about, like, the marketing.So there's so much to learn
from.
John Baldino (20:01):
So much. Yeah. And and cross to exactly your point,
look outside of HR. Right? Howdoes it happen on Twitch?
How does it happen on Snapchat?Like
Rhona Pierce (20:11):
And you know the thing is, we're trying to
attract people who are most ofus aren't trying to hire other
HR people or other TA people. Sowhy are we catering our content
to what we like
John Baldino (20:22):
Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (20:22):
And how we consume?
John Baldino (20:24):
Yes.
Rhona Pierce (20:24):
Think about the people that you're trying to
attract. So the softwareengineers, they're not on
LinkedIn. Like, when I washiring software engineers, I
didn't even post on LinkedIn.
John Baldino (20:35):
Because they don't want they're harassed so much
that they've all gotten off.Right?
Rhona Pierce (20:40):
I was on Twitter back on the day in the day.
Yeah. That's where they were.That that's where you go hang
out. So
John Baldino (20:46):
Yeah. And I think that you have to also think
about the audience you need. SoI'll give you a for example, if
you're in the casino industry.That's a good one. If you're in
the casino industry, you mighthave a vibe that wants, second
career people, retired peoplewho wanna work part time in a
(21:07):
fun environment, and so they'relooking for a little bit extra.
Okay. You may wanna post a lotmore on Facebook than on
Snapchat for those jobs becausethat's where that audience will
sit a bit more there. Be wise.
Rhona Pierce (21:20):
Yeah. I always say, think like a marketer. And
if you don't know how to thinklike a marketer, talk to your
marketing They will, like, ask amarketer
Right. Idea.
John Baldino (21:30):
Isn't that shocking?
Rhona Pierce (21:31):
They will sit there for hours, and they'll
tell you all about it. Leveragein the people that you have.
John Baldino (21:38):
I'm trying to market these jobs. Did you talk
to anybody in marketing? No.
Rhona Pierce (21:42):
It's what they do all day. It's what they do all
day. And we found them. We know,like, their strength and
everything.
John Baldino (21:50):
Admire them. Right.
Rhona Pierce (21:51):
And then we're like, don't use them when we
need it. It's like, come on.
John Baldino (21:54):
It's such a good blog.
Rhona Pierce (21:55):
Yeah. So what types of content do you find
that have been, like, the mostsuccessful for you in, like,
attracting opportunities?Because a lot of us also do this
to get speaking engagements andthings like that.
John Baldino (22:07):
I'm gonna come out of two different ways. One way
is, in my opinion, the moreauthentic that you are, the more
engagement that you'll have, andthe more likely that it will be
seen as a a standout so thatconference organizers and I will
say things like there are peoplewho so Transform, since we're
(22:28):
here, is a great example. SoTransform has launched about 10
communities across The UnitedStates right now. There's more
in other countries. They'regonna launch another 10 in the
next few months.
That could be a great spot tostart to sort of practice some
things with a smaller community.Right? Yeah. And so test some
things out. Don't be afraid tobe authentic in those moments
(22:50):
of, I'm gonna take fifteenminutes with my small community
and test this thing out and getfeedback from those folks
because you're being authentic.
That then becomes attractive,and your own community is then
gonna talk to the next communityto say, oh my gosh. John spoke,
and he did this twenty minutething. You ought to see if he
(23:11):
would drive over and do that atyour community. Right? It's
authentic.
It stands out to people becauseit feels genuine because it is.
So that's one side I would sayfor me, I find that I'm drawn
the most to people that operatein that kind of authenticity.
Honestly, if you come across asfake to me, I'm not gonna be
mean to you, but I may notconnect to what it is that
(23:33):
you're delivering. It doesn'tfeel genuine. On a sort of
practical side, though, as well,be willing to be on video.
Yeah. Be willing to be on videobecause those moments, at this
point, if you're gonnaproactively submit on a call for
speakers for some conferences,they wanna see something. They
want to see something. Theydon't wanna just hear that you
(23:57):
spoke at x whatever it wasbecause that doesn't mean you
were great, and video is tooaccessible. So if you don't have
video to share, I'm telling you,they're less likely to believe
and take the risk.
Rhona Pierce (24:10):
Yeah. I mean, it's like, if you want someone to pay
you or or just invite you to besomewhere in person talking, you
can't submit blogs and like,yeah, it's fine that you write,
but they don't know how thattranslates into you. But a
video, they can see like, oh,this is an engaging person.
Yeah. This is someone that I canbring to my stage.
John Baldino (24:32):
And there are people that get upset about
that. I've written this blog fortwenty years, and I I will say,
I know. I it's a wonderful blog.They don't know what your
presence is like. Exactly.
How you'll deliver thatinformation in person. A video
gives them insight into that. Mywife is a writer. Okay. She's
(24:57):
awesome.
She would never wanna get onstage with what she's written to
deliver it. It's not her top 10.She has done it, but it's not
her top 10. Okay. So justbecause somebody wrote it
doesn't mean that a conferenceorganizer thinks you want to
deliver it.
Rhona Pierce (25:13):
Exactly. Amazing. So this has been a great
conversation. I I really lovehow you've been open and, like,
honest, but not that I wouldever think that you wouldn't be
with us. And I'm sure people aregonna wanna, like, follow along
and learn more about you.
So where can listeners connectwith you?
John Baldino (25:29):
First of all, thank you. It's a very kind
obviously, LinkedIn that youmentioned. Yeah. Kind of on
there a little bit. So please goto LinkedIn, John Baldino HR.
I'm gonna come up first thing.Please connect with me there.
I'm happy to engage.
Rhona Pierce (25:44):
Amazing. Thank you so much, John.
Thanks again to John for joining me live at
Transform and keeping it real inthe best possible way. If this
episode gave you something tothink about or reminded you that
it's okay to show up as you are,I'd love it if you share it with
someone else who needs to hearit. And make sure you're
following the show because nextweek, I'm sitting down with
(26:07):
Trent Cotton, and we're goingdeep into the world of AI, how
it's reshaping recruiting, howto use it for content creation,
and why your authentic voicestill matters more than ever
before. Workfluencer is producedby Perceptible Studios. Learn
more about how we can help youattract, engage, and retain
qualified talent atperceptiblestudios.com.
(26:30):
If you're enjoying theWorkfluencer pod, share it with
someone who's changing how wetalk about work or who should
be. And, hey, if this episodegave you ideas or inspiration,
leave us a five star review.Reviews help other listeners
find us, and, honestly, theymake my day. Thanks for
listening, and I'll chat withyou next week.
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