February 22, 2024 • 40 mins
In this episode, we delve into the often overlooked aspects of motherhood—financial literacy and the mental load. Our guest, Ana Christina, author of "Kids Ain't Cheap," shares her insights on how to navigate the financial challenges of parenthood while balancing a career. She discusses the hidden costs of parenthood, the importance of financial planning, and strategies for setting your family up for long-term financial success.
WE CHAT ABOUT:
- The hidden costs of parenthood and how to prepare for them
- The importance of understanding your values and financial goals as a family
- Tips for setting up your children for financial success
- The evolving role of women in financial literacy and investing
- Strategies for managing financial stress and building resilience
SHOW LINKS:
- Connect with Ana on Instagram @anakresina and her book "Kid's Ain't Cheap"
- Join the Working Mumma Village: workingmumma.com.au/working-mumma-village.
- Get the 3 steps to sharing the mental load workingmumma.com.au/mental-load
- Let's connect on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/working-mumma
- Let's connect on Instagram @workingmummacommunity
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey there, Mama. Welcome back to another episode of the Working Mama podcast.
I hope your day is going well.
I'm a few weeks into school with my preppy and geez, I have to say it's been a rollercoaster.
We've had some high points, which is probably the start. And then,
(00:21):
geez, we nosedive pretty quick.
And there was a bit of mom guilt that came out, or actually I shouldn't say a little, a lot.
And I really spent a whole car ride into the city, driving into my corporate
gig, going, oh my goodness, what have I done?
I'm such a bad mom, yada, yada, yada.
No, I didn't let myself stay there. I pulled myself out, caught myself in the
(00:45):
stories I was listening and wanted to go, no, I'm moving on from this and then
thinking about strategies on how to improve it. So it's been a journey.
He did go through a little bit, probably not as bad when we started childcare like five years ago.
So it takes me back to those times. But if you've got kids that are going through
(01:06):
a transition at the moment or struggling with something, please know you are not alone.
But also then think about trying to catch yourself. What stories are you telling
yourself if you're a good or bad mum?
So just going to leave that one there. This week on The Potty,
we've got Anna who has written a book called Kids Ain't Cheap.
(01:28):
And you know what? That is so true.
They seem to just cause this never-ending reel of expenses.
So we talk about this. We also talk about the motherhood penalty,
even about not being paid parental leave by the government and a whole range of different things.
But there's also some really actionable things here as well.
(01:49):
So really hope you enjoy it and as always,
it'd be amazing if you would be able to leave a rating or review on Apple and
if you'd be able to share this even just with one other person this podcast,
if you're really enjoying it, I would really appreciate it.
Welcome to the Working Mama Podcast, a show that provides real world tips,
(02:09):
tricks and advice to all working mamas on how they can have a career,
family and hopefully one day break the glass ceiling.
Welcome, Anna. Welcome to the Weck Mama podcast. How's your day going so far?
Yeah, great. Thanks so much for having me.
Well, we've actually been chatting for a little bit before we hit record and
(02:31):
I realized, oh my goodness, we really need to hit record.
I know a little bit about you, but for those of you that don't,
do you want to tell us about yourself and what's been your career journey to date?
Yeah, for sure. I'm a financial educator and now currently I'm an author as
well. Just wrote a book called Kids Ain't Cheap.
I work in the financial technology sector.
(02:53):
So I work in tech and my background is in product management,
which is literally focusing on products on a platform. form.
So when you think of, you know, like the thumbs up on Facebook,
like that, that's a product that someone thought of that they created that there's
a reason they did that. So that's kind of my background and my role.
And I ended up moving into the financial side of things because I was passionate
(03:18):
about personal finance.
I started a blog and somehow got connected with my employer who was like,
Hey, you work in product, you know, tech, but you also know the financial side of things.
Let's chat. And I ended up kind of consulting on the side until I was ready
to move over from my previous employer.
And we started talking during my first parental leave.
(03:42):
So I haven't gone too far back in my career history, but that's kind of where I am right now.
So I work in the financial space in tech, and obviously I'm a parent.
And you're a published author, which is very exciting.
You're definitely wearing a few different hats so
that's exciting and I have to say kids
are certainly not cheap and I
(04:05):
think I discovered that from the moment I started even
thinking and considering about having kids like even just all the doctor's appointments
even before and as what you talk about in your book it's about you know even
going through fertility treatment and and things like that and I know that we
needed that for the first not fertility
treatment but invest do some some investigations before we had kids.
(04:26):
I was like, oh, my goodness, that's even before we got into everything else like that.
And you often talk about the surprising aspects of parenting that catch a lot
of people off guard. Do you have some...
Pretty classic examples of these and provide some insights on how parents can
(04:46):
better prepare for these unexpected financial challenges.
Yeah, there's some that are really big ones that might catch people off guard
in the same way that you talked about fertility.
For me, it was I had endometriosis, like there was surgery that had to happen
before you even tried to get into fertility and that costs a lot of money.
So those things definitely catch people off guard.
(05:07):
But once you you have a kid, there are all these other costs,
the cost of early childhood education and care, that's a huge one that it takes
up a huge part of a parent's budget.
And then as kids get older, there's obviously school fees, activities,
technology that they need to have, and so forth.
So there's a whole chapter in the book that talks about those costs.
(05:28):
But then there's a lot of hidden costs that people don't think about when it comes to kids as well.
Often you need more space, You need to spend money on, you know,
either buying a bigger house or buying a house that has space for you or a rental.
There's also, you know, gas and electricity and all of those things that kids
need that are kind of invisible costs that get taken up. But there are a lot
(05:52):
of financial challenges as well that happen.
And one of the reasons that I kind of wrote the book were things that I never
really thought about from a parental lens.
For example, I've talked to parents who said, hey, I'm on parental leave.
We're looking to buy our first house.
I'm applying for a mortgage, but I'm not working. working.
(06:13):
Makes sense, right? It makes sense. You don't have income coming in,
but it's not something you think about prior to having kids, right?
Like it's not something that you might be thinking about ahead of time.
Then there's other things such as having cap on some of the subsidies.
And for me, one of the biggest surprises for me was we were buying a house.
I wanted to sell some shares that I had from a company because I worked in tech.
(06:35):
So I had equity that I wanted to sell in order to purchase a new house.
And I sold that and ended up throwing me in a tax bracket that was above what
I, in which case I wasn't able to get my paid parental leave and I wasn't able,
I had to pay full price for the childcare subsidy.
Now, again, I'm speaking from a place of privilege, very fortunate that I could
(06:56):
go into this space, but what that ended up doing was impacting our purchase
of a new home, a family home that we wanted to do.
And it really kind of penalized me because at the time, had it been my partner
who was earning the amount that I was, because I'm the higher income earner
in our family, we wouldn't have been penalized.
We still would have been able to get some of the paid parental leave.
(07:20):
But unfortunately, that's not the case.
And it's little situations like this from that parental lens that I really wanted
to kind of write a book and cover all of these unexpected costs. Right.
Yeah. It's one of those things that you never know what comes out.
Like I never actually really cared about the childcare subsidy and had no awareness
of it until I actually started going down that path.
(07:41):
And even parental leave, I had no idea. I thought, yeah, cool.
Like I can get government parental leave.
I'm going to get some leave from my organization because someone had said, don't leave.
But if you're thinking about having kids, you're going to get 12 weeks.
I was like, yep, definitely.
But then when you start to go for it and then I was in the same boat,
I couldn't get paid parental leave from the government, again, in that income bracket.
(08:06):
And then, but my husband at the time was earning less.
And so, if the roles were switched, and it wasn't based on what the family income
is like it is now, it was based on just the female's income earning,
which I find absolutely- It blows your mind, right?
It blows my mind. And it's quite discriminatory.
(08:27):
Because why should it just be based on on females' income and also if we want
more female senior leaders in the organisations, it's what we say,
where are all the females in the boardroom?
Well, if we're not supporting them during their childbearing years and those
really important years of when they're probably climbing the ladder,
(08:48):
no wonder there's no women.
It just absolutely blows my mind. Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox right now.
No, I completely agree with you and some of the other surprises that I think
parents come across as well is around early childhood education and care,
paying for public holidays, rules around kids not attending their first or last
scheduled days and having to pay full price for those.
(09:08):
The cost differences, depending on hours of what a center is open,
is drastic between centers.
And those are all very confusing rules that if you don't know,
if you're not in it, you might end up paying more than you actually budgeted
for your family, right? Yeah.
And just you never know until you're going in it. And it's just,
(09:29):
yeah, there's so much of the focus on when you're having kids,
right, where are you going to go for hospital?
Because even expenses around you go public or private and obstetrician costs and things like that.
And then so much focus on the birth, but it's like, right, birth goes for relatively
a few days potentially or even shorter time.
And then it's like, oh, my God, you've got these kids and all the things that
(09:52):
they need and even the food, grocery bills and the cost of living at the moment.
I've got two young boys, man, they keep eating. Yeah. I'm going to have to work to pay for them to eat.
Exactly. It's just, it's endless, right? Like the costs are endless.
And that's why if we can better equip ourselves with the financial literacy,
hopefully we can do better.
If we have a better understanding of the system at play and how to navigate
(10:15):
that, like in that situation where I didn't get paid parental leave or the childcare
subsidy, I didn't know when we were are going to fall pregnant.
It is hard to financially plan around the tax time, you know, around tax time.
Like, like how insane is that? We have a system where you might need to financially
plan your pregnancy or your adoption around your tax, tax income, taxable income.
(10:39):
And back to your point, how do we support women in these roles to be able to
be senior leaders who might be higher higher incomes, but then we penalize them
for having families. Blows my mind.
Sometimes I said, I don't know, but you know, it's, it's crazy. It's just.
If we want senior women particularly, there's all the classic glass door,
(11:02):
the glass ceiling and all that kind of stuff.
And I'm like, well, probably for those women that are probably 50,
some of them are childless, but then others, where are they?
They probably had very little help along the way.
And then if we want more women there, how can we help them and that?
So yeah, to your point, how can we then better prepare?
And it's what you're saying about improving our literacy. see also
(11:24):
on that if we're not thinking about
it before we have kids how can we then change
then that conversation and that focus really yeah
like anything in in personal finance so you know for people who don't know often
it's about like starting early especially when it comes to investing in compound
interest you want to start early so you want to practice your financial literacy
(11:47):
early but then there's a lot of us who might not have savings and we start a
family and And what do we do?
Like, that's the big question. So if you can go back in time or if you can plan,
it's around budgeting. It's around planning.
It's around projecting how much, how many, what your costs are and what your income is.
But if you are too far down that, the biggest thing that you can do is try to
(12:08):
reduce your costs in any capacity that you can.
So some of the biggest expenses are around housing, are around transportation.
It's around energy. And if you can reduce any of those, that might be a big help. Call your bank.
Ask for a lower mortgage interest rate.
Call your landlord. See if the same thing can happen. It might not happen,
(12:31):
but if you don't ask, you...
You won't get a reduction, right? And the same thing with shopping around for providers.
These are simple things that any family can do, any person can do,
but it can have a big, huge impact.
So reducing those costs and being as frugal as possible can help you.
Now, also the other side of the flip side of it, there's only so much that you
can save as frugal as you can get.
(12:52):
The other side is like, can you increase your income in some ways?
And that might be sometimes hard, But if you can put your name out there,
try to go for a raise, try to apply for other positions or jobs,
or even just taking up a side hustle. I know it sounds impossible.
Like it sounds impossible when you're juggling little humans and life and,
you know, all these things.
(13:12):
But if there's any way that you can bring extra income in, and sometimes it's
as simple as I'm going to sell stuff on Marketplace.
That can really set parents up in a space where they have a little bit more
cash flow coming in and out of their house.
What can we do with childcare? Because I know even personally,
we've got like mortgage and childcare are the two biggest expenses in my family at the moment.
(13:36):
And after that, it's probably the grocery bill for the ever-growing two young boys.
Like what, childcare is just so expensive and such, I know, a blocker and a
burden for so many people.
I know my son's starting school next year. I'm actually so excited that I think
I've worked out it's going to save me like $800 a month.
(13:56):
But you know, it's thousands of dollars, like probably $10,000 a year I'm saving
by him actually going to school. It's crazy.
Yeah. With early childhood education costs, they are insane.
And you see it leave your bank account every month, every week,
whatever your system is. It's a huge blow.
(14:17):
Some of the things that you can do is obviously you want to look for quality
education and it depends on what center you send your child to.
But the other thing is that you can look at is what hours a center is open at,
because it kind of depends on how many hours you're allocated for your subsidy
and that might impact how much you're paying. I know it sounds bizarre.
(14:37):
I have it in my book. I couldn't believe that as well because it was something
I didn't even notice or know, right? Like these little hidden rules.
So looking into that, the other thing that you can do is also run the number
in the math on what income bracket It might make a difference if you move yourself
down to four days as opposed to five days in terms of having your kid in care,
(15:00):
but also at the same time, getting a subsidy that is aligned with more money coming into you.
Not paying as much as you think you would had you had the fifth day.
So just kind of running those numbers as well is a really big one.
Yeah, and certainly trying to reduce your... I know this is not a financial
(15:22):
discussion, but also childcare is based off your taxable income as well.
So if there's ways that you can...
Salary sacrifice or do other things. Yes. Potentially that income as well.
You know, even put in, if you're a female, put in extra money into super.
I know that's like generally women have got a lot less super.
I think it's something like $2 million less a woman will earn over the course of her career.
(15:46):
That in super, if you take 10% of, you know, 12%, I think super's going up too.
That's probably almost $150,000 in the lifetime.
And then you're compounding of that. that's huge so put extra
money into super you're actually then potentially going to reduce your
income as well but also then financially you're going to be much better off
at retirement because women over the age of 55 are actually the fastest growing
(16:08):
group of homelessness in australia so the more you can this is kind of like
the long game as well isn't it when we're talking about working mums it's a
long game there's obviously when you've got your young kids with early education,
situation, you do take a pretty big financial hit because of the cost of kids.
But I guess there are long-term benefits to all this, aren't there?
(16:29):
Yeah, absolutely. I just want to comment on what you said about super.
That's a really big one because especially if you're on parental leave,
there is the ability for spousal contribution.
Also, if you're a low income, there's the government co-contribution and there's
spousal splitting as well.
So there are options if your partner wants to potentially put money into your super as well.
(16:50):
So you can definitely look into these different things and see what works for you.
And back to your comment of around women ending up with less super.
The Australian Institute found that women earn $136,000.
Dollars less in their super over their working
lives than men and when you think about that that's that's
huge that's significant as well and that's
(17:12):
even yeah yeah that's even less that's 150 000
less than what is considered a comfortable retirement so not so you know a comfortable
retirement is like you have your house paid off you know you can take a holiday
but this is this is not the case so we really need to look after ourselves if
we're taking parental leave because you're probably reducing your income.
(17:35):
You're going to have less opportunity potentially in your career.
That's not to say that it happens, but statistically it does.
And you'll have less in your super, which is the big hidden cost that people
don't think about enough when they do take leave.
I know I've been guilty of it that early 30s, why am I going to be thinking about super?
As I've got older, a couple of years ago, we actually did see a financial advisor
(17:59):
to say, look, these are some of the things that we're wanting,
both from like a kid's family life and the like, but also then it was that super
part of like, well, geez, I've got to start thinking about it.
I'm midway point through my career, really sad.
I've still got all these years to go and work, but it's one of those things
that you've got to unfortunately plan for that end game, that retirement.
(18:21):
And, you know, actually going through kids, they are expensive
at that time and you're thinking oh my god can I really afford to put you know
mortgages are high and that but I'm like no I'm quite conscious now yes I do
actually need to put that extra money you know into super so but it's another
thing it's one of those hidden costs those things that I did not even consider.
(18:43):
Before I was even having kids just that financial I don't know it's not the
strain but it's that financial hit that you get from multiple fronts as having
kids not to say look kids are amazing I think that got a lot to my laugh.
I just want to premise that. But there's certainly that part that,
yeah, you don't necessarily consider when you first fall pregnant.
Yeah, for sure. And that's why it's just important to kind of get all the information
(19:08):
from everywhere. And what I found was it doesn't exist.
There's so much about pregnancy and how to raise a good, well-rounded child,
but where is the information around how to prepare for a parenthood financially.
And that's why I kind of wanted to put that all together because no one thinks
about their super, you know, no one thinks about that impact on your career
(19:30):
and the opportunity costs that you're giving up.
And that's okay if you choose to give it up, right?
Like we've chosen to have families and we're navigating it in the best way possible.
And there's going to be a financial hit, but how much of a financial hit is
up to you when you run the numbers and you have have the information.
And also what kind of family life you want. And it comes back down to,
(19:53):
I would say it comes down to the why and the values of what you want for you and your family.
It's generally a discussion that's best had between you and your partner on
how you want them that family life to look like.
So, you know, if you want an overseas holiday, it might mean that you need to
work, but if you're not going to do it, so there might be level,
there's a sliding scale depending on how much you both earn as a collective
(20:15):
for your family versus not.
So but also you're understanding why you do it like I
know that I personally get pressure of like right would you like five days and
sometimes my husband's like you work five days and I'm like no I
want to work four so it's also it comes down to what I want to do my why and
things like that so it's such a personal thing isn't it around this topic there's
(20:36):
no there's no one size fits all it's such don't it's probably almost also don't
look to others focus on yourself isn't it yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I love what you talked about in terms of values, right? Because I took a
longer parental leave my second time around.
I had some family issues that I needed to deal with back in Canada.
Having the ability and the security to be able to do that was a choice.
(20:59):
But because of that, financially, we need to make other choices now,
right? Right. But it comes back to your values.
What do you value as a family? What's important to you?
Obviously, that's hard with the rising cost of living and so forth.
But it is it is a good place to stop and think about that.
I often talk to parents who are like, how do you keep like, keep up with the
Joneses? My neighbor's kid goes and swimming and dance lessons and this and that.
(21:23):
And it's like, what do you value? Do you value all those things?
Do you want to spend that money on or do you not?
We opt for bushwalks. It's cheap. It's free.
It's fun. It's nature. That's just what my family does.
But that might not be something that you value. So going back to that, I love that idea.
So just going back, just on that tangent around understanding your values and
(21:46):
stuff, I guess some of these topics as well, it's not just about the mother, is it?
It's about making sure that it's a collective agreement between both parents, isn't it?
Yeah. The first part of the book, which I think about quite a bit,
is as parents, we often reflect on how we were parented, like how our parents
(22:08):
treated us in so many different ways.
This is how I was disciplined. plan. These are the chores I had.
This is what I did. Same thing when it comes to money.
Some of our earliest memories are probably some kind of transactional thing
that happened with our parents, whether they gave us money or coins or took
us to the shop to go buy candies.
This is a really important thing to focus on. How do I think about money?
(22:31):
What are the myths that I hold? What are the ideas I hold? What are the truths and beliefs that I have?
Do I think that money is the root of of all evil? Do I think that I can never earn enough?
Do I feel that I need to be really frugal because I'm scared that this money will slip away?
So stepping back and having a conversation with yourself about how you feel
about money is really, really important.
And then if you are partnered, sit down and talk to your partner about that.
(22:55):
What are the commonalities around that? What are the differences?
And creating goals together.
Money is one of the leading causes of divorce. divorce, you're already stressed having kids.
Why have the financial stress on top of it? Of course, money is going to be
an ongoing life conversation because...
Money is a means of life, right? You have to. You work to try to get money to spend.
(23:20):
It is a part of life. But how can you best talk about your relationship to money
with your partner is really, really important.
Because if you can talk about your values, how you believe or think about money,
what your goals are, if you're working towards the same goal,
like our goal is to pay off our house, that is number one goal.
Role, how can you work together to enable each other to do that and stay the course?
(23:42):
Because you're always going to have someone who thinks a little bit differently,
who's more of the spender versus the saver.
And there's that balance that you need to find as well. So having those open
conversations is a really, really important one.
And when the time to have that conversation, or there is no time,
it's good to have it anytime.
Yeah, I reckon anytime. I was joking with a friend of mine who's single about
(24:04):
bonus points, talking about it on the first date.
It should be more normalized.
I'm a big advocate of normalizing financial conversations. And that's a thing
that should also happen with your kids as well.
Talking to your kids normally about it. Yes, this is money.
Mama and Papa have to go to work. And why do we go to work? What does that mean?
(24:27):
Creating value and understanding so that it doesn't become a weird taboo thing
is really really important.
So just normalizing it. But it's always great to go on a date and talk about
money goals or what you see your life like. What are the things that you want to do together?
Is it to save up for a holiday? Is it to pay down the mortgage faster?
Is it that you really want to save up and buy that TV or whatever random house
(24:52):
item that will bring joy for whatever that is?
Having those conversations are just really important at any time.
And being open-minded and non-judgmental because sometimes people come from
debt or bad money habits, and that's not your fault often.
It is the way that potentially you were taught or society or even from your
(25:14):
parents, but we can change those habits.
Really good. And what can we then do for our kids?
I know this is really focused around working moms and stuff,
but just from an edge, as what you just said about educating our kids,
just quickly, how can we make sure that we're instilling good money habits with our children?
Yeah, just normalizing conversations around money. So again,
(25:37):
not having these taboo sweeping statements about money, but just bringing it
back to the everyday, right?
Like there's this idea that kids don't like math and because it's not applicable to the everyday.
But money is, you know, so if you can bring math and financial literacy together, it's really great.
Just if when you go to the store, looking at the different costs of things, why does this cost more?
(26:01):
But this package actually has less in it. Having those conversations or creating
budgets for older kids where you're like, this is your budget, go buy the things.
Let's see if we can cook a meal from from that, teaching them to maybe even
shop around for older kids.
Hey, can you get us a better internet service for cheaper?
Having things that really make sense will enable your kids to have better money
(26:25):
habits, to see it in the real world, to appreciate that.
And so that they're kind of set up in the future. But really,
as a parent, you need to look out for yourself.
So once you you kind of examine your own ideas around it, that's a good time
to then talk to your kids as well. Yeah. No, so true. So true.
So what tips do you have for people at the moment in terms of the current economic climate?
(26:50):
Because I know that when I've surveyed people recently around,
you know, what are their biggest challenges?
It seems to be cost of living and then also the mental load,
which we're not talking about tonight.
I'm sure we could, but definitely the cost of living is It's one of the biggest
things that we're all experiencing with rising interest rates.
Even my husband said to me today, is there another interest rate rise coming and things?
(27:11):
So how can we grapple with this?
But also, you know, rising childcare costs is like what we had in July and other
elements of kids' sport and schools and kids don't cheat.
Yeah, I know. It's hard. I'm not going to lie. It's hard.
If there's ways to reduce costs in any way, that's like number one.
(27:34):
I literally the other day called my broker, asked for a mortgage reduction and
got it. And had I not asked, I wouldn't have gotten it.
So I would say go and do that. Go and call those providers and ask if you can
get a better rate or if they can get you with a deal.
Often they have these deals where if you're a new customer, you get X deal,
but you might not. Guess what?
(27:55):
Loyalty. There's a loyalty tax. By staying loyal to the company that you're
at, chances are you're paying more because they don't have to win you over.
So jumping providers, whether it's energy bills, internet, something else, you can do that.
And those are the bigger costs, right? Those are the bigger costs.
Then there's smaller things that you can do, you know, being more frugal in
(28:18):
the sense of buying secondhand and so forth.
But it's unfortunately, kids are expensive, life is expensive.
So if you bring it back to your values, what do you value? What do you want to focus on?
Those are some of the things that you can do. I mean, there's tons of like tips
around cooking and, you know, bulk food and vegetarian meals.
(28:38):
Like there's all of that, but it's, yeah, it's, it is just tough.
Like it is just tough for everyone.
Probably the main message here is if you're experiencing it, no, you're not alone.
There's definitely people out there and there's ways that you can get support if need be. For sure.
You've talked about setting our kid up for long-term success.
(28:59):
And I know that you're really big on as well around investment strategies.
So how can we also set our kids up as what you're saying earlier around our
financial success in the future and for the long run and not just,
I guess, looking at parenting as a long game, as what we said earlier,
it's not just about that pregnancy and falling pregnant where there's so much
(29:21):
commentary around having the right birth and how you're going to feel, but,
There's so much around that periphery that people don't often really think about.
You know, parenting lasts 18, probably 30 years these days until the kids move out.
Yeah. And kids in that time cost around $450,000 to raise to the age of 18. So it's very expensive.
(29:44):
But I love this question because if you yourself spend time with financial literacy,
you're going to help your child as well because you're going to make better
financial decisions for yourself, your family, and for your kids.
And so talking about them normalizing it is one of the first steps.
And going back to us as parents, I often think about it as like putting on your
(30:05):
own oxygen mask. You need to look after yourself.
You need to look after yourself and your retirement and make sure that you are secure.
And once you do feel that you're secure enough and your kids are not going to
have to help you at retirement, like you've got a handle on it,
you're working towards something, then you can actually think about your child
and what their needs are.
(30:26):
And some of that can be investing for them. And this is something that we're doing for our kids.
And there's different types of way that you can invest that I talk about in my book.
But the whole idea around investing is that you put money aside and that compounds
over time and it'll grow over time.
And that's kind of the idea behind investing. You're investing in shares that
(30:49):
will will grow over time. So this is what we do with our super, right?
And you can do this for your kids. And there's different ways.
You can do a minor account.
You can do it in your name through a trust and so forth. I'm not going to get
into the logistics of it.
But the idea is that even if you're putting in $5 or more, that money will grow.
And at one point, you can do something with it in terms of gifting it to your
(31:10):
kids, supporting your kid, helping your kid.
A lot of people do want to invest because they want to help their kid with a
down payment of a house. They don't know what the future is going to hold.
They want to help them with their education, or they just want to give them
money or not, or they want to take them on a trip together.
It's really up to you what you want to do, but it is a smart thing to think
about if you are secure to kind of set yourself, your child up for success potentially in the future.
(31:36):
Because I don't know, generational wealth is something that's really important to me.
And I think about the opportunities that I was provided from an immigrant family
that had nothing, who really wanted to empower me and educate me and help and
support me. And I want to do that for my kids.
I'm not sure exactly in what way, but I do know putting money aside is something
that's really important for me so that I can provide them with the opportunities
(32:00):
that they need in the future. So investing is a big one.
Just on financial literacy, I know that next year's International
Women's Day theme is around you know financial literacy what's
your experience in females knowledge and
awareness of financial literacy because I know say historically
and probably typically it's been the male that's like
(32:20):
right this is my job I'm gonna look after the money and I know I even know some
people in my social circles that don't even know the login detail for some of
their bank accounts which actually scares me yeah oh that's that's a really
important one because I think I think if you're coupled, you really should be across the finances.
(32:40):
Historically, women would do the buying of the groceries and managing a small
budget and not a larger role in that. And now there's a lot of women who are
higher income earners than their partner.
They do manage money and they're actually becoming more and more savvy with
money because women were kind of seen as budgeting and being frugal and finding
(33:03):
the sales, whereas men were seen as like investing, growing wealth,
building wealth, you know, making money.
And now that language has slightly shifted. There are way more women that are investing now.
There are more women that are taking hold of their own financial futures and
setting themselves up for success in that way.
And I love that because it's, you know, there's only, frugality will take you so far.
(33:27):
It's not going to help you in retirement, right? Like you need money, you need money to grow.
And that's essentially what investing is. So I'm a huge, I'm very passionate
about that. I'm very excited that more women are investing.
And actually, we're seeing the statistics to back it up.
And in that financial side, women, as they make more money, they're also more
willing to donate to charities and organizations that they align with.
(33:50):
So that's something that's fascinating.
And they're more likely to think about investing ethically as well.
So there's a new...
Space within the financial space when it comes to women, because they're more
intentional with their money, but they're also, I wouldn't say like the term
isn't smarter, but they're probably more risk adverse,
(34:11):
but instead of taking like risky decisions when it comes to finances,
but it's still about that long-term focus of like, I'm going to invest.
I'm just not going to invest in random hot stocks at the moment.
So that's, and stats show that.
And that's really exciting. I love that there's more women who are interested in that space.
Yeah. And as you say, the ethical investing and that's when I don't even know
(34:34):
the superannuation company, Verve Super, you know, it's just focused in on women
and when you're, you know, they're ethical investing that way and that.
So it's really interesting to see how this goes, but certainly as well,
if you don't know your login details for your bank account, please find them
out, like just for your own.
Very important. And just like making sure you have your finances in order,
(34:55):
know what your net worth is of your family's net worth.
And yeah, that can be a very challenging thing, especially if you have a partner
that passes away or something happens in a situation.
It's really important for us as individuals to have a bit of financial autonomy
and understand how the finances work.
Yeah. And just have that conversation. So it comes back to some of those conversations
(35:18):
around maybe the mental load.
Yes, it might be on someone else, but
definitely from a financial literacy perspective, it is so, so important.
And also that's where sometimes, and I don't mean to digress here,
but that's also where like domestic violence issues happen where women are literally
left stranded because they've got no financial literacy and they've really got
to do this as well. Well, financial abuse is a thing, right?
(35:39):
Like a lot of people don't think about it, but if someone's not letting you
work, not letting you access money, telling you what you can do with your money,
that is a form of financial abuse.
And there are, you know, phone numbers that you can call to talk to someone about that.
But it's really important, especially for parents, women who decide to take
parental leave and look after their kids.
They are at risk of that sometimes as well when they don't have access to their finances.
(36:03):
So if you're in that situation please go
seek to talk to someone yeah and also your
banks i know people like commonwealth bank are actually doing funds for
this so if you're doing that definitely seek help so there a lot of going on
at the moment in terms of how can we just on that around financial stress how
can we just navigate this is is it something that it can be is it short-term
(36:24):
long-term i don't know sometimes also finances can actually stress people out
of like oh my my goodness, I've only got $100 in the bank account.
It is, as you say, one of the biggest elements of divorce.
How can people navigate as well
around this stress of financial household budgets and things like that?
Yeah, there are lines that you can call, especially there's debt lines and whatnot.
(36:49):
So if you are in that situation, please go and seek help. You're not alone.
You're not the only person. A lot of people are in that situation.
I know like I'm speaking from a place of privilege. I work in the finance industry, but it's,
like a lot of people are struggling right now. So definitely reach out to your
bank or organizations who can help and support you and know that you're not alone.
(37:10):
And times shift as well. This might be a rough time right now and interest rates
do change and life does change.
So hang in there, look out for yourself and just remember, you know,
hold your loved ones close.
Often, like obviously you need food and a roof over your head,
but spending time with your kids is probably what they need and want most.
(37:33):
So don't feel like you need to get them the flashiest item.
Spending time with them is really often all they really want.
And so don't forget that. You're an important person in their life.
So well said, so well said.
So around this topic in terms of financial literacy and navigating the financial
elements around parenthood, is there any final thing that you'd like to add
(37:55):
that we may not have already covered?
Yeah, I think the big thing is like as parents, we need to educate ourselves
and make sure that we're equipped.
My financial journey has evolved over my life as well.
And even just like working in the tech space or the finance space,
I've learned more and I'm continuing to learn.
And that's okay. Like our values change, our ideas change, our understanding changes.
(38:16):
And it's like a lifelong journey as we navigate. So don't feel like you're beating
yourself up. You're not where you want to be.
Life goes on. You're going to to learn things as you go, but it is really important
to spend the time to educate yourself around the finances. It doesn't have to be boring.
It can actually be quite empowering. And that's kind of the whole goal of my book.
(38:36):
And all that I really preach about is like, you can empower yourself to make
the best financial decisions. And that in itself is really powerful.
What a good way to summarize and really share it all. It's amazing.
So Anna, how do you fill your cup.
Oh, I would say listening to podcasts like this, you know, it's working in the garden,
(38:59):
my kids running around, listening to podcasts is probably one of the biggest
ones and it costs me nothing, you know, or a good cup of coffee with a friend
is another really big one. So those are the two things that I really, really love.
That's amazing. So how can people find out more about the book and also connect with you?
Yeah, you can find the book under Kids Ain't Cheap, wherever you get your books.
(39:23):
And you can learn more about me or follow me under my name, which is Anna Christina.
Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Anna, for the chat today.
It's been so insightful and thank you so much for publishing a book about parenting
that's not about birth and things like that.
So thank you so much. And also the advocacy that you're doing around this topic
(39:44):
to really educate and also empower parents around the financial literacy,
particularly in a time where we're going through such a high
cost of living and I know it is a really you know stressful time for
a lot of people so if you are going through stress please seek help and
don't be afraid to ask for help either so thank you so much it's been a real
honor and privilege oh thanks so much for having me I appreciate it thank you
(40:06):
for listening to the working mama podcast subscribe to the podcast on itunes
spotify or your favorite podcast catch up please also feel free to contact me
on any of the the Working Mama social channels,
remember mama is M-U-M-M-A,
or website www.workingmama.com.au.
I would appreciate you to share this podcast with friends and colleagues,
(40:28):
especially those that are parents managing the juggle.
And I would really appreciate if you had to take the time out to leave a review of the podcast.
Thank you and see you next time. Have a great week.
Music.
Hey there, Mama. Welcome back to another episode of the Working Mama podcast.
I hope your day is going well.
I'm a few weeks into school with my preppy and geez, I have to say it's been a rollercoaster.
We've had some high points, which is probably the start. And then,
(00:21):
geez, we nosedive pretty quick.
And there was a bit of mom guilt that came out, or actually I shouldn't say a little, a lot.
And I really spent a whole car ride into the city, driving into my corporate
gig, going, oh my goodness, what have I done?
I'm such a bad mom, yada, yada, yada.
No, I didn't let myself stay there. I pulled myself out, caught myself in the
(00:45):
stories I was listening and wanted to go, no, I'm moving on from this and then
thinking about strategies on how to improve it. So it's been a journey.
He did go through a little bit, probably not as bad when we started childcare like five years ago.
So it takes me back to those times. But if you've got kids that are going through
(01:06):
a transition at the moment or struggling with something, please know you are not alone.
But also then think about trying to catch yourself. What stories are you telling
yourself if you're a good or bad mum?
So just going to leave that one there. This week on The Potty,
we've got Anna who has written a book called Kids Ain't Cheap.
(01:28):
And you know what? That is so true.
They seem to just cause this never-ending reel of expenses.
So we talk about this. We also talk about the motherhood penalty,
even about not being paid parental leave by the government and a whole range of different things.
But there's also some really actionable things here as well.
(01:49):
So really hope you enjoy it and as always,
it'd be amazing if you would be able to leave a rating or review on Apple and
if you'd be able to share this even just with one other person this podcast,
if you're really enjoying it, I would really appreciate it.
Welcome to the Working Mama Podcast, a show that provides real world tips,
(02:09):
tricks and advice to all working mamas on how they can have a career,
family and hopefully one day break the glass ceiling.
Welcome, Anna. Welcome to the Weck Mama podcast. How's your day going so far?
Yeah, great. Thanks so much for having me.
Well, we've actually been chatting for a little bit before we hit record and
(02:31):
I realized, oh my goodness, we really need to hit record.
I know a little bit about you, but for those of you that don't,
do you want to tell us about yourself and what's been your career journey to date?
Yeah, for sure. I'm a financial educator and now currently I'm an author as
well. Just wrote a book called Kids Ain't Cheap.
I work in the financial technology sector.
(02:53):
So I work in tech and my background is in product management,
which is literally focusing on products on a platform. form.
So when you think of, you know, like the thumbs up on Facebook,
like that, that's a product that someone thought of that they created that there's
a reason they did that. So that's kind of my background and my role.
And I ended up moving into the financial side of things because I was passionate
(03:18):
about personal finance.
I started a blog and somehow got connected with my employer who was like,
Hey, you work in product, you know, tech, but you also know the financial side of things.
Let's chat. And I ended up kind of consulting on the side until I was ready
to move over from my previous employer.
And we started talking during my first parental leave.
(03:42):
So I haven't gone too far back in my career history, but that's kind of where I am right now.
So I work in the financial space in tech, and obviously I'm a parent.
And you're a published author, which is very exciting.
You're definitely wearing a few different hats so
that's exciting and I have to say kids
are certainly not cheap and I
(04:05):
think I discovered that from the moment I started even
thinking and considering about having kids like even just all the doctor's appointments
even before and as what you talk about in your book it's about you know even
going through fertility treatment and and things like that and I know that we
needed that for the first not fertility
treatment but invest do some some investigations before we had kids.
(04:26):
I was like, oh, my goodness, that's even before we got into everything else like that.
And you often talk about the surprising aspects of parenting that catch a lot
of people off guard. Do you have some...
Pretty classic examples of these and provide some insights on how parents can
(04:46):
better prepare for these unexpected financial challenges.
Yeah, there's some that are really big ones that might catch people off guard
in the same way that you talked about fertility.
For me, it was I had endometriosis, like there was surgery that had to happen
before you even tried to get into fertility and that costs a lot of money.
So those things definitely catch people off guard.
(05:07):
But once you you have a kid, there are all these other costs,
the cost of early childhood education and care, that's a huge one that it takes
up a huge part of a parent's budget.
And then as kids get older, there's obviously school fees, activities,
technology that they need to have, and so forth.
So there's a whole chapter in the book that talks about those costs.
(05:28):
But then there's a lot of hidden costs that people don't think about when it comes to kids as well.
Often you need more space, You need to spend money on, you know,
either buying a bigger house or buying a house that has space for you or a rental.
There's also, you know, gas and electricity and all of those things that kids
need that are kind of invisible costs that get taken up. But there are a lot
(05:52):
of financial challenges as well that happen.
And one of the reasons that I kind of wrote the book were things that I never
really thought about from a parental lens.
For example, I've talked to parents who said, hey, I'm on parental leave.
We're looking to buy our first house.
I'm applying for a mortgage, but I'm not working. working.
(06:13):
Makes sense, right? It makes sense. You don't have income coming in,
but it's not something you think about prior to having kids, right?
Like it's not something that you might be thinking about ahead of time.
Then there's other things such as having cap on some of the subsidies.
And for me, one of the biggest surprises for me was we were buying a house.
I wanted to sell some shares that I had from a company because I worked in tech.
(06:35):
So I had equity that I wanted to sell in order to purchase a new house.
And I sold that and ended up throwing me in a tax bracket that was above what
I, in which case I wasn't able to get my paid parental leave and I wasn't able,
I had to pay full price for the childcare subsidy.
Now, again, I'm speaking from a place of privilege, very fortunate that I could
(06:56):
go into this space, but what that ended up doing was impacting our purchase
of a new home, a family home that we wanted to do.
And it really kind of penalized me because at the time, had it been my partner
who was earning the amount that I was, because I'm the higher income earner
in our family, we wouldn't have been penalized.
We still would have been able to get some of the paid parental leave.
(07:20):
But unfortunately, that's not the case.
And it's little situations like this from that parental lens that I really wanted
to kind of write a book and cover all of these unexpected costs. Right.
Yeah. It's one of those things that you never know what comes out.
Like I never actually really cared about the childcare subsidy and had no awareness
of it until I actually started going down that path.
(07:41):
And even parental leave, I had no idea. I thought, yeah, cool.
Like I can get government parental leave.
I'm going to get some leave from my organization because someone had said, don't leave.
But if you're thinking about having kids, you're going to get 12 weeks.
I was like, yep, definitely.
But then when you start to go for it and then I was in the same boat,
I couldn't get paid parental leave from the government, again, in that income bracket.
(08:06):
And then, but my husband at the time was earning less.
And so, if the roles were switched, and it wasn't based on what the family income
is like it is now, it was based on just the female's income earning,
which I find absolutely- It blows your mind, right?
It blows my mind. And it's quite discriminatory.
(08:27):
Because why should it just be based on on females' income and also if we want
more female senior leaders in the organisations, it's what we say,
where are all the females in the boardroom?
Well, if we're not supporting them during their childbearing years and those
really important years of when they're probably climbing the ladder,
(08:48):
no wonder there's no women.
It just absolutely blows my mind. Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox right now.
No, I completely agree with you and some of the other surprises that I think
parents come across as well is around early childhood education and care,
paying for public holidays, rules around kids not attending their first or last
scheduled days and having to pay full price for those.
(09:08):
The cost differences, depending on hours of what a center is open,
is drastic between centers.
And those are all very confusing rules that if you don't know,
if you're not in it, you might end up paying more than you actually budgeted
for your family, right? Yeah.
And just you never know until you're going in it. And it's just,
(09:29):
yeah, there's so much of the focus on when you're having kids,
right, where are you going to go for hospital?
Because even expenses around you go public or private and obstetrician costs and things like that.
And then so much focus on the birth, but it's like, right, birth goes for relatively
a few days potentially or even shorter time.
And then it's like, oh, my God, you've got these kids and all the things that
(09:52):
they need and even the food, grocery bills and the cost of living at the moment.
I've got two young boys, man, they keep eating. Yeah. I'm going to have to work to pay for them to eat.
Exactly. It's just, it's endless, right? Like the costs are endless.
And that's why if we can better equip ourselves with the financial literacy,
hopefully we can do better.
If we have a better understanding of the system at play and how to navigate
(10:15):
that, like in that situation where I didn't get paid parental leave or the childcare
subsidy, I didn't know when we were are going to fall pregnant.
It is hard to financially plan around the tax time, you know, around tax time.
Like, like how insane is that? We have a system where you might need to financially
plan your pregnancy or your adoption around your tax, tax income, taxable income.
(10:39):
And back to your point, how do we support women in these roles to be able to
be senior leaders who might be higher higher incomes, but then we penalize them
for having families. Blows my mind.
Sometimes I said, I don't know, but you know, it's, it's crazy. It's just.
If we want senior women particularly, there's all the classic glass door,
(11:02):
the glass ceiling and all that kind of stuff.
And I'm like, well, probably for those women that are probably 50,
some of them are childless, but then others, where are they?
They probably had very little help along the way.
And then if we want more women there, how can we help them and that?
So yeah, to your point, how can we then better prepare?
And it's what you're saying about improving our literacy. see also
(11:24):
on that if we're not thinking about
it before we have kids how can we then change
then that conversation and that focus really yeah
like anything in in personal finance so you know for people who don't know often
it's about like starting early especially when it comes to investing in compound
interest you want to start early so you want to practice your financial literacy
(11:47):
early but then there's a lot of us who might not have savings and we start a
family and And what do we do?
Like, that's the big question. So if you can go back in time or if you can plan,
it's around budgeting. It's around planning.
It's around projecting how much, how many, what your costs are and what your income is.
But if you are too far down that, the biggest thing that you can do is try to
(12:08):
reduce your costs in any capacity that you can.
So some of the biggest expenses are around housing, are around transportation.
It's around energy. And if you can reduce any of those, that might be a big help. Call your bank.
Ask for a lower mortgage interest rate.
Call your landlord. See if the same thing can happen. It might not happen,
(12:31):
but if you don't ask, you...
You won't get a reduction, right? And the same thing with shopping around for providers.
These are simple things that any family can do, any person can do,
but it can have a big, huge impact.
So reducing those costs and being as frugal as possible can help you.
Now, also the other side of the flip side of it, there's only so much that you
can save as frugal as you can get.
(12:52):
The other side is like, can you increase your income in some ways?
And that might be sometimes hard, But if you can put your name out there,
try to go for a raise, try to apply for other positions or jobs,
or even just taking up a side hustle. I know it sounds impossible.
Like it sounds impossible when you're juggling little humans and life and,
you know, all these things.
(13:12):
But if there's any way that you can bring extra income in, and sometimes it's
as simple as I'm going to sell stuff on Marketplace.
That can really set parents up in a space where they have a little bit more
cash flow coming in and out of their house.
What can we do with childcare? Because I know even personally,
we've got like mortgage and childcare are the two biggest expenses in my family at the moment.
(13:36):
And after that, it's probably the grocery bill for the ever-growing two young boys.
Like what, childcare is just so expensive and such, I know, a blocker and a
burden for so many people.
I know my son's starting school next year. I'm actually so excited that I think
I've worked out it's going to save me like $800 a month.
(13:56):
But you know, it's thousands of dollars, like probably $10,000 a year I'm saving
by him actually going to school. It's crazy.
Yeah. With early childhood education costs, they are insane.
And you see it leave your bank account every month, every week,
whatever your system is. It's a huge blow.
(14:17):
Some of the things that you can do is obviously you want to look for quality
education and it depends on what center you send your child to.
But the other thing is that you can look at is what hours a center is open at,
because it kind of depends on how many hours you're allocated for your subsidy
and that might impact how much you're paying. I know it sounds bizarre.
(14:37):
I have it in my book. I couldn't believe that as well because it was something
I didn't even notice or know, right? Like these little hidden rules.
So looking into that, the other thing that you can do is also run the number
in the math on what income bracket It might make a difference if you move yourself
down to four days as opposed to five days in terms of having your kid in care,
(15:00):
but also at the same time, getting a subsidy that is aligned with more money coming into you.
Not paying as much as you think you would had you had the fifth day.
So just kind of running those numbers as well is a really big one.
Yeah, and certainly trying to reduce your... I know this is not a financial
(15:22):
discussion, but also childcare is based off your taxable income as well.
So if there's ways that you can...
Salary sacrifice or do other things. Yes. Potentially that income as well.
You know, even put in, if you're a female, put in extra money into super.
I know that's like generally women have got a lot less super.
I think it's something like $2 million less a woman will earn over the course of her career.
(15:46):
That in super, if you take 10% of, you know, 12%, I think super's going up too.
That's probably almost $150,000 in the lifetime.
And then you're compounding of that. that's huge so put extra
money into super you're actually then potentially going to reduce your
income as well but also then financially you're going to be much better off
at retirement because women over the age of 55 are actually the fastest growing
(16:08):
group of homelessness in australia so the more you can this is kind of like
the long game as well isn't it when we're talking about working mums it's a
long game there's obviously when you've got your young kids with early education,
situation, you do take a pretty big financial hit because of the cost of kids.
But I guess there are long-term benefits to all this, aren't there?
(16:29):
Yeah, absolutely. I just want to comment on what you said about super.
That's a really big one because especially if you're on parental leave,
there is the ability for spousal contribution.
Also, if you're a low income, there's the government co-contribution and there's
spousal splitting as well.
So there are options if your partner wants to potentially put money into your super as well.
(16:50):
So you can definitely look into these different things and see what works for you.
And back to your comment of around women ending up with less super.
The Australian Institute found that women earn $136,000.
Dollars less in their super over their working
lives than men and when you think about that that's that's
huge that's significant as well and that's
(17:12):
even yeah yeah that's even less that's 150 000
less than what is considered a comfortable retirement so not so you know a comfortable
retirement is like you have your house paid off you know you can take a holiday
but this is this is not the case so we really need to look after ourselves if
we're taking parental leave because you're probably reducing your income.
(17:35):
You're going to have less opportunity potentially in your career.
That's not to say that it happens, but statistically it does.
And you'll have less in your super, which is the big hidden cost that people
don't think about enough when they do take leave.
I know I've been guilty of it that early 30s, why am I going to be thinking about super?
As I've got older, a couple of years ago, we actually did see a financial advisor
(17:59):
to say, look, these are some of the things that we're wanting,
both from like a kid's family life and the like, but also then it was that super
part of like, well, geez, I've got to start thinking about it.
I'm midway point through my career, really sad.
I've still got all these years to go and work, but it's one of those things
that you've got to unfortunately plan for that end game, that retirement.
(18:21):
And, you know, actually going through kids, they are expensive
at that time and you're thinking oh my god can I really afford to put you know
mortgages are high and that but I'm like no I'm quite conscious now yes I do
actually need to put that extra money you know into super so but it's another
thing it's one of those hidden costs those things that I did not even consider.
(18:43):
Before I was even having kids just that financial I don't know it's not the
strain but it's that financial hit that you get from multiple fronts as having
kids not to say look kids are amazing I think that got a lot to my laugh.
I just want to premise that. But there's certainly that part that,
yeah, you don't necessarily consider when you first fall pregnant.
Yeah, for sure. And that's why it's just important to kind of get all the information
(19:08):
from everywhere. And what I found was it doesn't exist.
There's so much about pregnancy and how to raise a good, well-rounded child,
but where is the information around how to prepare for a parenthood financially.
And that's why I kind of wanted to put that all together because no one thinks
about their super, you know, no one thinks about that impact on your career
(19:30):
and the opportunity costs that you're giving up.
And that's okay if you choose to give it up, right?
Like we've chosen to have families and we're navigating it in the best way possible.
And there's going to be a financial hit, but how much of a financial hit is
up to you when you run the numbers and you have have the information.
And also what kind of family life you want. And it comes back down to,
(19:53):
I would say it comes down to the why and the values of what you want for you and your family.
It's generally a discussion that's best had between you and your partner on
how you want them that family life to look like.
So, you know, if you want an overseas holiday, it might mean that you need to
work, but if you're not going to do it, so there might be level,
there's a sliding scale depending on how much you both earn as a collective
(20:15):
for your family versus not.
So but also you're understanding why you do it like I
know that I personally get pressure of like right would you like five days and
sometimes my husband's like you work five days and I'm like no I
want to work four so it's also it comes down to what I want to do my why and
things like that so it's such a personal thing isn't it around this topic there's
(20:36):
no there's no one size fits all it's such don't it's probably almost also don't
look to others focus on yourself isn't it yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I love what you talked about in terms of values, right? Because I took a
longer parental leave my second time around.
I had some family issues that I needed to deal with back in Canada.
Having the ability and the security to be able to do that was a choice.
(20:59):
But because of that, financially, we need to make other choices now,
right? Right. But it comes back to your values.
What do you value as a family? What's important to you?
Obviously, that's hard with the rising cost of living and so forth.
But it is it is a good place to stop and think about that.
I often talk to parents who are like, how do you keep like, keep up with the
Joneses? My neighbor's kid goes and swimming and dance lessons and this and that.
(21:23):
And it's like, what do you value? Do you value all those things?
Do you want to spend that money on or do you not?
We opt for bushwalks. It's cheap. It's free.
It's fun. It's nature. That's just what my family does.
But that might not be something that you value. So going back to that, I love that idea.
So just going back, just on that tangent around understanding your values and
(21:46):
stuff, I guess some of these topics as well, it's not just about the mother, is it?
It's about making sure that it's a collective agreement between both parents, isn't it?
Yeah. The first part of the book, which I think about quite a bit,
is as parents, we often reflect on how we were parented, like how our parents
(22:08):
treated us in so many different ways.
This is how I was disciplined. plan. These are the chores I had.
This is what I did. Same thing when it comes to money.
Some of our earliest memories are probably some kind of transactional thing
that happened with our parents, whether they gave us money or coins or took
us to the shop to go buy candies.
This is a really important thing to focus on. How do I think about money?
(22:31):
What are the myths that I hold? What are the ideas I hold? What are the truths and beliefs that I have?
Do I think that money is the root of of all evil? Do I think that I can never earn enough?
Do I feel that I need to be really frugal because I'm scared that this money will slip away?
So stepping back and having a conversation with yourself about how you feel
about money is really, really important.
And then if you are partnered, sit down and talk to your partner about that.
(22:55):
What are the commonalities around that? What are the differences?
And creating goals together.
Money is one of the leading causes of divorce. divorce, you're already stressed having kids.
Why have the financial stress on top of it? Of course, money is going to be
an ongoing life conversation because...
Money is a means of life, right? You have to. You work to try to get money to spend.
(23:20):
It is a part of life. But how can you best talk about your relationship to money
with your partner is really, really important.
Because if you can talk about your values, how you believe or think about money,
what your goals are, if you're working towards the same goal,
like our goal is to pay off our house, that is number one goal.
Role, how can you work together to enable each other to do that and stay the course?
(23:42):
Because you're always going to have someone who thinks a little bit differently,
who's more of the spender versus the saver.
And there's that balance that you need to find as well. So having those open
conversations is a really, really important one.
And when the time to have that conversation, or there is no time,
it's good to have it anytime.
Yeah, I reckon anytime. I was joking with a friend of mine who's single about
(24:04):
bonus points, talking about it on the first date.
It should be more normalized.
I'm a big advocate of normalizing financial conversations. And that's a thing
that should also happen with your kids as well.
Talking to your kids normally about it. Yes, this is money.
Mama and Papa have to go to work. And why do we go to work? What does that mean?
(24:27):
Creating value and understanding so that it doesn't become a weird taboo thing
is really really important.
So just normalizing it. But it's always great to go on a date and talk about
money goals or what you see your life like. What are the things that you want to do together?
Is it to save up for a holiday? Is it to pay down the mortgage faster?
Is it that you really want to save up and buy that TV or whatever random house
(24:52):
item that will bring joy for whatever that is?
Having those conversations are just really important at any time.
And being open-minded and non-judgmental because sometimes people come from
debt or bad money habits, and that's not your fault often.
It is the way that potentially you were taught or society or even from your
(25:14):
parents, but we can change those habits.
Really good. And what can we then do for our kids?
I know this is really focused around working moms and stuff,
but just from an edge, as what you just said about educating our kids,
just quickly, how can we make sure that we're instilling good money habits with our children?
Yeah, just normalizing conversations around money. So again,
(25:37):
not having these taboo sweeping statements about money, but just bringing it
back to the everyday, right?
Like there's this idea that kids don't like math and because it's not applicable to the everyday.
But money is, you know, so if you can bring math and financial literacy together, it's really great.
Just if when you go to the store, looking at the different costs of things, why does this cost more?
(26:01):
But this package actually has less in it. Having those conversations or creating
budgets for older kids where you're like, this is your budget, go buy the things.
Let's see if we can cook a meal from from that, teaching them to maybe even
shop around for older kids.
Hey, can you get us a better internet service for cheaper?
Having things that really make sense will enable your kids to have better money
(26:25):
habits, to see it in the real world, to appreciate that.
And so that they're kind of set up in the future. But really,
as a parent, you need to look out for yourself.
So once you you kind of examine your own ideas around it, that's a good time
to then talk to your kids as well. Yeah. No, so true. So true.
So what tips do you have for people at the moment in terms of the current economic climate?
(26:50):
Because I know that when I've surveyed people recently around,
you know, what are their biggest challenges?
It seems to be cost of living and then also the mental load,
which we're not talking about tonight.
I'm sure we could, but definitely the cost of living is It's one of the biggest
things that we're all experiencing with rising interest rates.
Even my husband said to me today, is there another interest rate rise coming and things?
(27:11):
So how can we grapple with this?
But also, you know, rising childcare costs is like what we had in July and other
elements of kids' sport and schools and kids don't cheat.
Yeah, I know. It's hard. I'm not going to lie. It's hard.
If there's ways to reduce costs in any way, that's like number one.
(27:34):
I literally the other day called my broker, asked for a mortgage reduction and
got it. And had I not asked, I wouldn't have gotten it.
So I would say go and do that. Go and call those providers and ask if you can
get a better rate or if they can get you with a deal.
Often they have these deals where if you're a new customer, you get X deal,
but you might not. Guess what?
(27:55):
Loyalty. There's a loyalty tax. By staying loyal to the company that you're
at, chances are you're paying more because they don't have to win you over.
So jumping providers, whether it's energy bills, internet, something else, you can do that.
And those are the bigger costs, right? Those are the bigger costs.
Then there's smaller things that you can do, you know, being more frugal in
(28:18):
the sense of buying secondhand and so forth.
But it's unfortunately, kids are expensive, life is expensive.
So if you bring it back to your values, what do you value? What do you want to focus on?
Those are some of the things that you can do. I mean, there's tons of like tips
around cooking and, you know, bulk food and vegetarian meals.
(28:38):
Like there's all of that, but it's, yeah, it's, it is just tough.
Like it is just tough for everyone.
Probably the main message here is if you're experiencing it, no, you're not alone.
There's definitely people out there and there's ways that you can get support if need be. For sure.
You've talked about setting our kid up for long-term success.
(28:59):
And I know that you're really big on as well around investment strategies.
So how can we also set our kids up as what you're saying earlier around our
financial success in the future and for the long run and not just,
I guess, looking at parenting as a long game, as what we said earlier,
it's not just about that pregnancy and falling pregnant where there's so much
(29:21):
commentary around having the right birth and how you're going to feel, but,
There's so much around that periphery that people don't often really think about.
You know, parenting lasts 18, probably 30 years these days until the kids move out.
Yeah. And kids in that time cost around $450,000 to raise to the age of 18. So it's very expensive.
(29:44):
But I love this question because if you yourself spend time with financial literacy,
you're going to help your child as well because you're going to make better
financial decisions for yourself, your family, and for your kids.
And so talking about them normalizing it is one of the first steps.
And going back to us as parents, I often think about it as like putting on your
(30:05):
own oxygen mask. You need to look after yourself.
You need to look after yourself and your retirement and make sure that you are secure.
And once you do feel that you're secure enough and your kids are not going to
have to help you at retirement, like you've got a handle on it,
you're working towards something, then you can actually think about your child
and what their needs are.
(30:26):
And some of that can be investing for them. And this is something that we're doing for our kids.
And there's different types of way that you can invest that I talk about in my book.
But the whole idea around investing is that you put money aside and that compounds
over time and it'll grow over time.
And that's kind of the idea behind investing. You're investing in shares that
(30:49):
will will grow over time. So this is what we do with our super, right?
And you can do this for your kids. And there's different ways.
You can do a minor account.
You can do it in your name through a trust and so forth. I'm not going to get
into the logistics of it.
But the idea is that even if you're putting in $5 or more, that money will grow.
And at one point, you can do something with it in terms of gifting it to your
(31:10):
kids, supporting your kid, helping your kid.
A lot of people do want to invest because they want to help their kid with a
down payment of a house. They don't know what the future is going to hold.
They want to help them with their education, or they just want to give them
money or not, or they want to take them on a trip together.
It's really up to you what you want to do, but it is a smart thing to think
about if you are secure to kind of set yourself, your child up for success potentially in the future.
(31:36):
Because I don't know, generational wealth is something that's really important to me.
And I think about the opportunities that I was provided from an immigrant family
that had nothing, who really wanted to empower me and educate me and help and
support me. And I want to do that for my kids.
I'm not sure exactly in what way, but I do know putting money aside is something
that's really important for me so that I can provide them with the opportunities
(32:00):
that they need in the future. So investing is a big one.
Just on financial literacy, I know that next year's International
Women's Day theme is around you know financial literacy what's
your experience in females knowledge and
awareness of financial literacy because I know say historically
and probably typically it's been the male that's like
(32:20):
right this is my job I'm gonna look after the money and I know I even know some
people in my social circles that don't even know the login detail for some of
their bank accounts which actually scares me yeah oh that's that's a really
important one because I think I think if you're coupled, you really should be across the finances.
(32:40):
Historically, women would do the buying of the groceries and managing a small
budget and not a larger role in that. And now there's a lot of women who are
higher income earners than their partner.
They do manage money and they're actually becoming more and more savvy with
money because women were kind of seen as budgeting and being frugal and finding
(33:03):
the sales, whereas men were seen as like investing, growing wealth,
building wealth, you know, making money.
And now that language has slightly shifted. There are way more women that are investing now.
There are more women that are taking hold of their own financial futures and
setting themselves up for success in that way.
And I love that because it's, you know, there's only, frugality will take you so far.
(33:27):
It's not going to help you in retirement, right? Like you need money, you need money to grow.
And that's essentially what investing is. So I'm a huge, I'm very passionate
about that. I'm very excited that more women are investing.
And actually, we're seeing the statistics to back it up.
And in that financial side, women, as they make more money, they're also more
willing to donate to charities and organizations that they align with.
(33:50):
So that's something that's fascinating.
And they're more likely to think about investing ethically as well.
So there's a new...
Space within the financial space when it comes to women, because they're more
intentional with their money, but they're also, I wouldn't say like the term
isn't smarter, but they're probably more risk adverse,
(34:11):
but instead of taking like risky decisions when it comes to finances,
but it's still about that long-term focus of like, I'm going to invest.
I'm just not going to invest in random hot stocks at the moment.
So that's, and stats show that.
And that's really exciting. I love that there's more women who are interested in that space.
Yeah. And as you say, the ethical investing and that's when I don't even know
(34:34):
the superannuation company, Verve Super, you know, it's just focused in on women
and when you're, you know, they're ethical investing that way and that.
So it's really interesting to see how this goes, but certainly as well,
if you don't know your login details for your bank account, please find them
out, like just for your own.
Very important. And just like making sure you have your finances in order,
(34:55):
know what your net worth is of your family's net worth.
And yeah, that can be a very challenging thing, especially if you have a partner
that passes away or something happens in a situation.
It's really important for us as individuals to have a bit of financial autonomy
and understand how the finances work.
Yeah. And just have that conversation. So it comes back to some of those conversations
(35:18):
around maybe the mental load.
Yes, it might be on someone else, but
definitely from a financial literacy perspective, it is so, so important.
And also that's where sometimes, and I don't mean to digress here,
but that's also where like domestic violence issues happen where women are literally
left stranded because they've got no financial literacy and they've really got
to do this as well. Well, financial abuse is a thing, right?
(35:39):
Like a lot of people don't think about it, but if someone's not letting you
work, not letting you access money, telling you what you can do with your money,
that is a form of financial abuse.
And there are, you know, phone numbers that you can call to talk to someone about that.
But it's really important, especially for parents, women who decide to take
parental leave and look after their kids.
They are at risk of that sometimes as well when they don't have access to their finances.
(36:03):
So if you're in that situation please go
seek to talk to someone yeah and also your
banks i know people like commonwealth bank are actually doing funds for
this so if you're doing that definitely seek help so there a lot of going on
at the moment in terms of how can we just on that around financial stress how
can we just navigate this is is it something that it can be is it short-term
(36:24):
long-term i don't know sometimes also finances can actually stress people out
of like oh my my goodness, I've only got $100 in the bank account.
It is, as you say, one of the biggest elements of divorce.
How can people navigate as well
around this stress of financial household budgets and things like that?
Yeah, there are lines that you can call, especially there's debt lines and whatnot.
(36:49):
So if you are in that situation, please go and seek help. You're not alone.
You're not the only person. A lot of people are in that situation.
I know like I'm speaking from a place of privilege. I work in the finance industry, but it's,
like a lot of people are struggling right now. So definitely reach out to your
bank or organizations who can help and support you and know that you're not alone.
(37:10):
And times shift as well. This might be a rough time right now and interest rates
do change and life does change.
So hang in there, look out for yourself and just remember, you know,
hold your loved ones close.
Often, like obviously you need food and a roof over your head,
but spending time with your kids is probably what they need and want most.
(37:33):
So don't feel like you need to get them the flashiest item.
Spending time with them is really often all they really want.
And so don't forget that. You're an important person in their life.
So well said, so well said.
So around this topic in terms of financial literacy and navigating the financial
elements around parenthood, is there any final thing that you'd like to add
(37:55):
that we may not have already covered?
Yeah, I think the big thing is like as parents, we need to educate ourselves
and make sure that we're equipped.
My financial journey has evolved over my life as well.
And even just like working in the tech space or the finance space,
I've learned more and I'm continuing to learn.
And that's okay. Like our values change, our ideas change, our understanding changes.
(38:16):
And it's like a lifelong journey as we navigate. So don't feel like you're beating
yourself up. You're not where you want to be.
Life goes on. You're going to to learn things as you go, but it is really important
to spend the time to educate yourself around the finances. It doesn't have to be boring.
It can actually be quite empowering. And that's kind of the whole goal of my book.
(38:36):
And all that I really preach about is like, you can empower yourself to make
the best financial decisions. And that in itself is really powerful.
What a good way to summarize and really share it all. It's amazing.
So Anna, how do you fill your cup.
Oh, I would say listening to podcasts like this, you know, it's working in the garden,
(38:59):
my kids running around, listening to podcasts is probably one of the biggest
ones and it costs me nothing, you know, or a good cup of coffee with a friend
is another really big one. So those are the two things that I really, really love.
That's amazing. So how can people find out more about the book and also connect with you?
Yeah, you can find the book under Kids Ain't Cheap, wherever you get your books.
(39:23):
And you can learn more about me or follow me under my name, which is Anna Christina.
Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Anna, for the chat today.
It's been so insightful and thank you so much for publishing a book about parenting
that's not about birth and things like that.
So thank you so much. And also the advocacy that you're doing around this topic
(39:44):
to really educate and also empower parents around the financial literacy,
particularly in a time where we're going through such a high
cost of living and I know it is a really you know stressful time for
a lot of people so if you are going through stress please seek help and
don't be afraid to ask for help either so thank you so much it's been a real
honor and privilege oh thanks so much for having me I appreciate it thank you
(40:06):
for listening to the working mama podcast subscribe to the podcast on itunes
spotify or your favorite podcast catch up please also feel free to contact me
on any of the the Working Mama social channels,
remember mama is M-U-M-M-A,
or website www.workingmama.com.au.
I would appreciate you to share this podcast with friends and colleagues,
(40:28):
especially those that are parents managing the juggle.
And I would really appreciate if you had to take the time out to leave a review of the podcast.
Thank you and see you next time. Have a great week.
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