May 27, 2024 • 40 mins
In this episode, we welcome Joshua Pruett, a New York Times & USA Today bestselling author, and Emmy Award winner. Pruett has written for both Mystery Science Theater 3000 and Doctor Who. He is currently a writer for the upcoming return of Phineas and Ferb and co-author of the Last Comics on Earth graphic novel series. His first solo middle-grade series, Gyro and the Argonauts, will be released by Andrews McMeel Kids in the summer of 2025.
Key Discussion Points
1. Journey to Success:
- Joshua Pruett shares his excitement about his upcoming middle-grade series, Gyro and the Argonauts. Inspired by a passion for Greek mythology, Pruett has crafted a story that reimagines monsters as heroes.
- He discusses the creative process behind this book, emphasizing the importance of taking control of one's narrative and the theme of breaking free from societal expectations.
2. Writing Collaboratively:
- Pruett discusses his collaborative writing process with Max Brailler on the Last Comics on Earth series. He highlights the dynamic nature of their partnership and the creative synergy that fuels their work.
- He explains the concept of Last Comics on Earth, where the protagonists create their own comic book series within the post-apocalyptic world they inhabit, blending humor and adventure.
3. Transition to Television:
- Reflecting on his transition from feature animation to television, Pruett discusses his experience writing for several popular shows. He appreciates the frequent opportunities for storytelling that TV offers compared to the slower pace of feature animation.
- He shares anecdotes about the collaborative environment in TV writers' rooms and the joy of contributing to beloved series like Doctor Who.
4. Balancing Solo and Collaborative Projects:
- Pruett talks about the contrast between collaborative projects and solo endeavors. He finds value in both approaches, appreciating the solitude of writing novels while also enjoying the team dynamics in TV writing.
- He mentions the strategic aspects of his career, where he balances personal creative control with collaborative opportunities.
5. Advice for Aspiring Writers:
- Joshua Pruett encourages aspiring writers to create and produce their work, especially during challenging times in the industry. He advises against waiting for permission and emphasizes the importance of being proactive.
- He stresses the significance of writing what one loves and strategically planning one’s career to leverage small opportunities into larger successes.
Mentioned Links
Joshua Pruett's Linktree
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Beth McMullen (00:00):
Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen and I'm Lisa
Schmid, and we're the co-hostsof Writers with Wrinkles.
This is season three, episode22.
And today we are excited towelcome Joshua Pruitt to the
show.
Joshua is a New York Times andUSA Today bestselling author and
Emmy award winner, and is theonly human being on earth to
have written for both MysteryScience Theater 3000 and Doctor
(00:23):
who.
He is a writer on the upcomingreturn of Phineas and Ferb and
the co-author of the last comicson Earth graphic novel series.
His first solo middle-gradeseries, euro and the Argonauts,
pitched as the Hitchhiker'sGuide to Greek Mythology, a
revisionist take on classicalmyths where the monsters become
the heroes they were alwaysmeant to be recently sold to
(00:44):
andrews mcmill kids and will hitbookstores and libraries in the
summer of 2025.
So welcome, joshua.
We are super excited to haveyou here.
Joshua Pruett (00:53):
You've been busy I'm thrilled to be here.
Beth McMullen (00:55):
Hi beth, hi lisa, thank you, yes, always busy,
too busy I know, but you knowthe alternative is like sitting
there staring at your inboxgoing why isn't anything
happening?
Joshua Pruett (01:07):
So what if there's an equilibrium that we
reach for?
What if there's that?
Beth McMullen (01:12):
What I don't know .
Are you implying there'sbalance?
Joshua Pruett (01:16):
I don't know what that is Fictional, mythological
place called balance.
Beth McMullen (01:21):
Yeah, so huge congratulations upfront on
hitting, hitting usa today thankyou weekly bestseller for too
many villains, which came out atthe end of april, if I'm
writing that right correct?
Yes we're gonna talk about thatin a minute, but first I want
to hear all about the middlegrade series that andrews and
camille will be putting out nextsummer.
(01:42):
So if you can tell us a littlebit about that, that would be
fabulous.
Joshua Pruett (01:45):
Oh, I'm thrilled too.
Thank you for asking.
I am freaking out about thisone.
This is one I've actually beenworking on for some time and one
of these situations where youwrite a book and then you go do
other things and then you comeback to that book and you
strengthen it, and so this onehas been kind of my baby this to
(02:05):
that book and you strengthen it, and so this one has been kind
of my baby.
This one has been kind of mylabor of love and it comes out
of, you know, growing up withRay Harryhausen special effects
movies like Jason and theArgonauts and Clash of the
Titans, and my parents weresuper into those and so exposed
those to me when I was a youngman and you know, and Mel Brooks
movies, and so I kind of overtime, realized that some of the
(02:30):
choices that were made, thecreative choices in these
stories you know they did notquote unquote adhere to the
original stories that the poetskind of set down.
And in my research, just out ofcuriosity, I discovered that
even the poets did some remixingand that you know it wasn't
Perseus on Pegasus, it wasBellerophon.
(02:50):
Bellerophon was a differentcharacter.
It was not quite as popular asPerseus is and kind of.
The more research I did, themore I realized that there was a
lot of creative invention thatwas going on and kind of the
myths as we understand them oras interpreted by Edith Hamilton
or Bullfinch is they're allreally different.
And so it occurred to me thatlike there was an opportunity
there, but also a thematicopportunity where you know what,
(03:12):
if you have a Greek geek likeme, a kid who loves heroes and
is afraid of monsters, who findshimself in a position where he
realizes that there is a wholelot more to the monsters than he
thought and a whole lot less tothe heroes that he admires, and
, upon rewrite, discovered thatI was actually writing a little
(03:34):
bit of my own story.
Very early in my career Istarted in production, in
animation, and wanted to getinto a creative career as a
storyboard artist and then alsorealized that I wanted to do
some writing and got a lot ofpushback and there were a lot of
obstacles that I had toovercome, a lot of people trying
to dictate my story to me, andso by the time I finished
(03:55):
writing here, I realized that'swhat it was about.
It was about people takingtheir story back, these monsters
taking their story back, andhow important it is to write
your own story.
So I'm so excited to get thisbook into kids' hands.
It's super funny, super warm,lots of big adventure and just
insanely goofy, insanely goofybook.
Beth McMullen (04:18):
I love that.
It sounds like it's hitting allof the marks for middle grade
books.
You can see the kids sitting inthe corner giggling away
reading the book.
I also love that theme of youknow refusing to go in the box.
You're not gonna put me in thisbox and tell me what I am.
(04:38):
I think that's a great theme,especially for those kids of
that age who are trying tofigure out who am I.
Lisa Schmid (04:44):
Am I who you?
Beth McMullen (04:45):
say I am or am I who?
I say I am.
Joshua Pruett (04:47):
And it's as timeless, as kind of those
mythological heroes and villains.
It's like that's something thatI think we all need to hear
from time to time.
Beth McMullen (04:55):
So in your head, how many titles are going to be
in this series?
Are you just saying you knowI'm launching the first one and
then we'll see where we're at?
Joshua Pruett (05:04):
Yeah, a great question.
You know we I'm I'm booked fortwo, I'm contracted for two.
The next one, you know,features the origin of the
Olympics, in a crazy kind ofupside down way, or capital
games, I should say, and youknow I've got stories for a lot
more.
You know, eventually the fun ofit is remixing these stories so
(05:29):
that we kind of back our wayinto the classics and getting a
sense of you know, Euro,actually helping to get things
on track into the myths as weunderstand them, but in a way of
unpacking these heroes andvillains and all of these
multiplicities of relationshipsand getting into.
(05:50):
Medusa is one of my favoritecharacters and in Yiro my
version of her is that she andPerseus used to be boyfriend and
girlfriend and it went southand the poets turned on her and
there's a life that she wouldlove to get back to and most
people think she's dead andshe's not.
And so as the series kind ofgrows, Medusa ends up being kind
(06:14):
of a mentor for Yuro and Ireally love their relationship.
She's kind of like a big sisterto him.
Beth McMullen (06:20):
I think Medusa got old school canceled.
Joshua Pruett (06:23):
Yeah, oh, she really did.
She really did.
Everyone thought she had herhead chopped off, and no, she
just got dumped.
Beth McMullen (06:29):
It's never been easy.
Joshua Pruett (06:31):
No, not, ever, not ever.
Beth McMullen (06:35):
Well, that is super exciting.
We are looking forward to thatin 2025.
And we will definitely try tohave you back right around your
launch so we can talk about howit's gone, I think this sounds
like exactly the kind of bookthat I, when I was writing
middle grade, I was all aboutlike the action, adventure, the
humor, raising up the ridiculous.
Joshua Pruett (06:57):
Oh, wonderful.
Beth McMullen (06:57):
It was fun to write.
It's really fun to write and Ithink it's fun to read, so I
think your book is wellpositioned for success.
Okay, speaking about successToo Many Villains, which is what
entry in the last comics onEarth is it.
Is it number two?
Joshua Pruett (07:15):
or three, it's number two.
We tried to do a clever thingwith the title because
apparently folks, they don'tlike to put numbers in the
sequels anymore, so we thoughtwe were being clever.
And you know, two for too many.
Beth McMullen (07:27):
Right, and clearly I am not clever, because
I just totally missed that.
That was not the first time.
I'm not young enough to get it,I guess maybe that's what we
should say.
Joshua Pruett (07:37):
Yes, we're always trying to be.
Beth McMullen (07:40):
So this is the series that you do with Max
Brailyard.
Is that that's right?
Right, we get a lot ofquestions about partnership,
writing and co-writing, thingsof that nature on the show.
Are you able to tell us just alittle bit about what that is
like working with Max and howyou define your roles and just
how the process works for youguys, because obviously you're
(08:01):
doing it in a successful way?
So if you can just give us apeek, yeah absolutely Well.
Joshua Pruett (08:06):
First off, it's important to note Max is the
worst.
No, he's not.
Max is a dear friend and we hitit off working on the animated
series.
So I was brought on by ScottPeterson, who I also co-write
with on other things, like abook we did called Shipwreckers,
and we also write on Phineastogether.
(08:27):
But coming onto that show, maxand I hit it off.
He and Scott and I have a lotof shared interests in horror,
in gateway horror, monsters andzombies, all these things that
Max and illustrator Doug Holgatebuilt up for the Last Kids
series proper.
And so, working together andkind of building the hive mind
(08:47):
that you make on a writing roomin a writing room, you know we
really hit it off and hadsimilar sensibilities.
And so when the time came topotentially spin off the series,
max asked me on board and andwe built kind of a funky spinoff
where, essentially because inLast Kids Proper these are our
(09:08):
four kids, they are the lastkids on Earth there's a lot of
stakes, a lot of saving theworld, there's a lot of comedy,
a lot of warmth and characterand there's also no more comics
being made.
So there is a comic book storethat Doug and Max put called
Comically Speaking, in thecenter of Wakefield, in the
proper universe, and it occurredto us that there would be no
(09:29):
more comics and that at somepoint the kids would notice they
would probably read every comicin the comic shop and there
wouldn't be any left.
So they do what any kid woulddo they make their own.
So Jack, quint, june and Dirkwrite their own sequel to their
favorite comic book series abouta hero called Z-Man, and they
put themselves with superheroalter egos into that comic book.
(09:51):
So what we're seeing, asillustrated by Jay Cooper, who's
an amazing collaborator and ahilariously funny illustrator
and writer in his own right,essentially he is Quint's hand.
So Quint, the character, isdrawing this book and then all
the kids are writing, and sothat's kind of the comic, the
concept at the heart of it, andwe've built a giant sandbox for
(10:14):
ourselves and essentially itcomes down to Max and I staying
up very late at night because weeach have other
responsibilities and jobs and wetry to make each other laugh at
like three o'clock in themorning and whatever makes us
laugh sticks.
And so we, as far as ourspecific collaboration goes now
that I've given you a very longcontext, the way the
(10:38):
collaboration works is that Maxand I will actually break out an
outline together, so we'recoming up with all of the main
story beats.
Usually we're doing this overZoom.
Sometimes we get the chance tohang out and we'll actually do
like a corkboard and we'll donote cards, kind of in a TV
writing or script writing style,because we both have that
(10:59):
experience and we're coming upwith kind of the large story
beats, four acts, four actstructure, and then we kind of
take that big malleable shapeand then we start putting jokes
in there and it's really aboutcan we find a character story?
You know we pitch things toeach other and, granted, you
know, max is, this is really hisbaby, so he's definitely
(11:22):
driving, but I spend a lot oftime backseat driving and, and
you know, barking orders at himor where we think where I think
we should be headed, but reallyit's like funniest gags, win, um
, you know.
And and if we both are crackingup, that means it's got a good
chance of kind of sticking thelanding and getting in the final
(11:43):
book.
Yeah, we don't, we don't arguetoo much.
There's definitely times where,like I am arguing for something
weirder and stupider and youknow he might give me one or two
.
There's.
There's a character inparticular in this book called
Public Domain Dracula.
We go to an apocalypse full ofvampires and one of them is a
(12:03):
guy named Public Domain Draculawho has like a cheesy, trick or
treat looking costume.
And there's a moment in thebook where we had to convince
our editor two rounds of copyeditors that we have to leave it
in because it's notgrammatically correct or make
any sense at all.
But it's some of my favoritestuff in the book.
(12:25):
Public domain dracula ishilarious.
You know he says things likewelcome to my public domain.
You know it's.
It's weird, it's really weird.
And, like you know, half of thekids won't get it.
Other kids will ask theirparent what public domain means.
Beth McMullen (12:38):
We do define it in the book I can just see a
copy editor losing sleep overthat, you know.
Joshua Pruett (12:45):
Oh my gosh, yes, yes.
Beth McMullen (12:47):
Was it easier for the second book collaborating,
do you?
Did you feel like you were itwas just an easier process on
book two because you'd done italready, or was it?
Did you feel like, okay, youknow?
Joshua Pruett (13:03):
you would think so, for for some reason and I
couldn't I mean, we both have alot on our plate, so that can
certainly make it a challenge,but for some reason, two was
definitely harder, but it's alsoa weirder book, so in some ways
I'm grateful for it because Ithink it pushed us into some
stranger areas.
You know, we introduced aconcept in book one.
(13:26):
We have all these apocalypses,so there's a land called
Apocalyptia.
It's every apocalypse you canthink of exists in this world.
Scott, let's see, max and Iwanted to have the biggest
sandbox possible, and so one ofthem that we threw out as a gag
was the knock-knock jokeapocalypse, which again is
abstract and doesn't make anysense.
(13:46):
But because of where we wereheaded in book two, there was an
opportunity for us to actuallygo there, and so max and I had
to actually think about whatthat meant visually, and then
kind of work in collaborationwith jay, like what are we going
to see when we go to aknock-knock joke apocalypse?
Um, and I think that came outof, you know, a harder process.
(14:06):
I think that came out of usstruggling a little bit more
with the story this time, but Ithink we ended up in a place
where it benefited.
Because it is a it is a wildride book too.
Beth McMullen (14:19):
I'm going to go and get myself a copy because it
sounds like exactly the sort ofstuff that cracks me up.
Oh good, where I you knowpublic domain Dracula.
That's right in my wheelhouse,that's awesome.
Joshua Pruett (14:32):
I literally got a hat made for my signings.
I went to the mall and like hadthem embroider it.
It doesn't, you know, itdoesn't make any sense, but it
makes me deliriously happy.
Lisa Schmid (14:45):
So we are going to transition into television,
because that is a huge part ofyour career and everything that
you've accomplished.
And I should note that I am ahuge Doctor who fan, as I think
you already know, and I'm also ahuge Phineas and Ferb fan.
Yeah, love both of those.
(15:05):
So, with that in mind, what wasyour first television job and
how the heck did you land it?
Like that's, you know that'spretty incredible to get to work
in television every day it is.
Joshua Pruett (15:17):
It's a dream really, and I found the longer
I'm in it, the more I prefer it.
I started my career in featureanimation at DreamWorks and I
worked in production and thenmoved into being a server artist
but was doing a lot of writingand the first gig was Phineas
back in 2011.
So I joined the team in 2011for season four, so that was
(15:39):
actually my first TV job, andthe thing I loved about
television was all the at bats,the opportunities for stories,
the like.
Like essentially, every sixweeks we're doing something new.
Every six to eight weeks we dosomething new, and so I loved
that.
There was a hunger for story.
(15:59):
What I had encountered at thefeature level was that, because
these projects were 80 to $90million, there was so much
writing on it that folks gotprecious or you would be working
on something for months andmonths and months and months or
years in most cases, and thething with TV was that they were
hungry for story.
I didn't always feel like thatwas the case.
(16:20):
I definitely ran intosituations at the feature level
and certainly I was a young, youknow guy, I was still in
training, but, you know, I justhad lots of ideas and would run
into situations where peopledidn't want them and like I just
didn't understand.
Like, of course, you knowthere's politics and diplomacy
and all of that, and sometimesI'm obnoxious about that.
But in the TV side there was,like there's like this need,
(16:44):
it's hungry.
You know the machine of workingon a animated TV series.
You know we've got 22,.
On average, half hours ofmaterial that needs to be
produced, and so in that there'stwo 11 minute episodes, which
means you're talking about 38 to40 stories that need to be
(17:05):
broken, written, storyboarded,edited, et cetera.
And and that's awesome, that isso exciting, that is such a
great, huge, giant opportunity.
And so you can take risks, youcan throw things against the
wall and see what sticks.
You can take 11 minutes andexplore one character and get
(17:25):
into their head, get into theirpersonality and their wants and
needs, and then do somethingcompletely different in the next
episode.
So I just I'm on fire aboutthat.
I love that because I'm I'm thekind of person who, like I'm
sure, like you, both of you youknow you've got your board of
all of your ideas right that youwant to do, and if you started
(17:48):
now and, let's say, you couldafford yourself the opportunity
to pursue each and every one.
You would never run out, and soI'm in a similar position.
So it's like I love playing inother people's sandboxes.
Like you know the audio bookthat I did for Doctor who, for
Big Finish, and you know thework I've done on other TV
series, it's great to play inother people's sandboxes because
(18:09):
I always feel like that sandboxmay appear restrictive but I
think you are free to dig deepin that sandbox and, you know,
go up kind of above that sandbox.
If you stay within kind of theconstraints, I think constraints
can be really freeing.
Lisa Schmid (18:25):
And Phineas and Ferb is such a funny little
irreverent show, Just like itjust rocks me up and the
characters are so unique and tobe able to write for those that
cast of characters must be somuch fun it's a gift, like it's
a gift of a universe and a placeto play in.
Joshua Pruett (18:43):
Yeah, it's wonderful.
I love it.
I would do it forever.
I would I would genuinely do itforever.
Lisa Schmid (18:47):
Well, as a fan, I would say yes, do it there was
one time.
This is just like a little sidestory.
So I started watching itbecause my son was, you know, at
the time when he was watching.
It was like three or four and Iwas like come on, let's watch
this show.
This looks funny and we were atDisneyland one time and they
(19:08):
came walking up, up like thelittle characters.
Joshua Pruett (19:11):
Oh, my goodness.
Lisa Schmid (19:12):
I lost my mind.
I was like my God, it's Phineasand Ferb and my son's just like
, oh my God, mom settle.
And then they walked out and Iwas dancing with them and my
husband has it like on film andI was just like trying to get my
son to dance and he's just like, yeah, now.
Joshua Pruett (19:30):
Oh, I love it.
I love it, mom.
Lisa Schmid (19:31):
You're so cringe, mom, that exists everything, so
that must have just been so muchfun.
And then everything else thatyou've worked on is just you've.
You've got it going on well.
Joshua Pruett (19:43):
Thanks, lisa.
Yeah, being a part of stuffthat people love is like amazing
, because I, because I've been apart of things that people
ignore or they they didn't watchor that they don't embrace that
much.
So you know that, yeah, it's agift to be able to be a part of
something that people feel thatstrongly about.
That's huge and and I feellucky and privileged that I'll.
Lisa Schmid (20:02):
You know, I'm gonna get to carry that with me kind
of forever, you know well, it'sfunny when I saw that was in
your bio when I first likesomehow I can't remember how we
connected on Twitter and when Iread your bio I'm like, oh my
god, this guy is like my newbest friend.
Beth McMullen (20:19):
Lisa is your number one fan.
So, this is actually a good.
This is a good segue into ournext question, because you were
talking about how you enjoybeing creative and, with these
constraints, put on you kind ofthat idea of playing in somebody
else's sandbox, like here's anidea, this is the TV show that
we're making.
You're the writer in thewriter's room.
(20:40):
So how does that collaborationwork?
So you're the writer, you'vegot this idea that you're, you
know, part of a bigger, you know, series, whatever.
How are you working withproducers and directors?
And what are the, I guess, whatare the stakes for you as a
writer who maybe did notoriginate the show Like it's not
(21:02):
your show where you came upwith the idea, but you're in
that room trying to make ithappen.
How do all these parts gotogether?
Joshua Pruett (21:09):
Yeah, that's a great question.
You know, certainly it'sdifferent in show to show.
I will say that kind of thebest, the best experiences I've
had are where it's a very openand collaborative space, and I
don't mean that in a flippantway, I mean like literally.
So in other words, working withpeople who aren't threatened by
(21:29):
new ideas, people who genuinelywant you to push and stretch at
the borders of what defineswhatever that show or that
property or, you know, thatlegacy thing like Doctor who is.
And really it does come down toleadership.
It comes down to, you know,because I've worked with plenty
of people who are threatened bygood ideas and I've been blessed
(21:51):
in my career to work with ahandful of folks who aren't
threatened by a good idea,because they know how to do
everyone's job.
You know there's a directcorrelation I found with folks,
especially in the animated space, you know, who want to go home
at the end of the day.
You know, who have people thatthey care about, you know, in
(22:12):
their lives, and the, the seriesis a part of that, the show is
a part of that, and so thatreally it trickles down from
leadership.
And so I think first it reallystarts with, you know head
writers and producers who, whowant the stuff you know, who are
anxious for it, who are hungryfor it.
So I think that's step one.
(22:33):
One of the things that I learnedin my career that I always
thought was really interestingis that there's there's never a
conversation where someone says,okay, well, we want to make
sure this is really good.
Like nobody says that, likethat's actually a part.
There's a self kind ofsupervisory part of this process
where you have your ownintention, you have goals that
(22:55):
you've set out as a creativeperson.
So for me, part of it is whatdo I bring to the table?
So for me it's like I lovemonster movies, I love science
fiction, I love doctor who, Ilove Theater, so I am going to
automatically pitch things thatpush whatever show I'm on in
those directions.
But I'm also a big softie andI'm a dad and so I you know
(23:20):
Scott kind of coined.
This years ago there was anepisode of Milo Murphy's Law
that I wrote that got nominatedfor an Annie Award.
That was very exciting.
And you know, when I turned inthat script he was like Josh,
you know, this is you, it'sweird, it's funny, it's warm and
it's insane.
And I was like, oh, that's mybrand.
(23:41):
I was like that's what I do.
So that's been kind of mychecklist kind of since then was
identifying oh, like, these aremy superpowers.
And and then for me, for theother part of that puzzle is,
you know, I'm also a bigstructure guy.
So I love getting the chance,especially on some larger
(24:01):
episodes that I might work on.
Like, if you look at mytrajectory, like for people
playing, paying very closeattention, you might notice that
you know, my name is on a lotof these larger specials or mid
season finales or season finales, because my brain tends to go
there, you know, and and I'mkind of a geek for structure,
(24:25):
like I love kind of getting asense of the whole and being
like, oh good, if we line upthese pieces in the right way,
you know we could have somethingthat really pays off and that
feels like a rich reward for theviewers who are invested.
But yeah, I think, as far asthat actual environment goes,
yeah, it's about figuring outhow to support each other,
(24:46):
having a room of folks who wantto support each other's stories.
I've definitely been insituations where I pitched
something and it looks like itwas dying on the vine because
the producers felt one way oranother about it, but then was
supported by my team and thatreally could make or break a
high concept or gettingsomething across the finish line
(25:07):
.
And I've been in situationswhere the opposite was true and
at a certain point that you know, that started to affect my
standing on the show becausefolks' impression of what I was
pitching or writing was that itwasn't up to snuff.
But the reality was, you know,I wasn't getting the support.
That support and advocacy isimportant.
So I think one of the thingsthat I've tried to build as a
(25:28):
discipline, as a muscle, is, youknow, how can I support other
people in the room the way Iwant to be supported, getting
behind other people's storyideas, helping get things across
that finish line, because noone pitches something they don't
like.
The reality is it takes timeand effort, heart, to build
(25:48):
these things and have theconfidence to pitch them to very
smart and talented people on aweekly basis.
So nobody pitches somethingthey think is going to be
terrible.
Everybody pitches stuff theywant to see made.
Lisa Schmid (25:54):
So that is like the perfect segue into the next
question, because you've alreadybeen talking about it and what
it's like in the writer's roomand how this dynamic influences
the scripts and, like I said,you've already touched on it,
but I would love to hear more onthat.
Joshua Pruett (26:10):
Yeah, yeah, it's, and again, I think it's it's.
One of the superpowers of TV isis you know, when you get eight
or 10 people in a room all ofdifferent life backgrounds, life
experiences, funny, and havetheir own superpowers, right,
like, if I'm structure guy andweird sci-fi horror guy, there's
going to be, you know, a womanacross the room who's super into
(26:33):
like character nuance, right?
So then the idea is, if wecombine our superpowers, if we
get these really talented andsmart people, everything gets
better.
And the beauty part aboutworking in animation is that
it's iterative.
So essentially, you haveopportunities at the script
stage to punch things up.
You have opportunity at thestoryboard stage, you have
(26:53):
opportunities in editorial andthen even in color to tweak
jokes, make things sing, makethings better.
But it's like if that room isopen and warm and positive,
everyone is helping each other,everyone is genuinely invested
in making that script, that idea, the best it can possibly be.
(27:16):
And when it's not, you knowthat's how you get into like
toxic spaces where it's reallycompetitive and people are
trying to knock each other downor, like you know, kill ideas,
et cetera.
It's very ugly and you know, Ihave, I have friends in the live
action space and it's verydifferent, very different
environments.
It can be uh, but yeah, whenit's working, that's what it is.
(27:40):
When it's working, it really islike it's a chorus, it's a band
, you know it's.
It's like oh great, you know,sometimes I'll pitch something,
I'll bring something into theroom and there'll be somebody
specific that I want their, Iwant everyone's input.
But absolutely there are timeswhere it's like, oh, I would
really love your instinct onthis because I haven't cracked
(28:00):
it and you know that's a safeand creative place to be in and
I think it shows, you know, Ithink the people yeah, beth,
good I have a question.
Beth McMullen (28:12):
Yes, that just occurred to me.
So you have done all of thiscollaborative work.
The way that you describe thewriter's room very collaborative
, I like what you said aboutthis is this person's superpower
, this is mine.
When we put them together, wow,amazing episode, amazing
character development.
You worked with Max on the LastComics on Earth.
(28:34):
What was it like to do yoursolo middle grade?
The Eurobooks Was that hard,because everything is your
responsibility, is yourresponsibility and we we know,
as fellow writers, that writingnovels is a very solitary
(28:55):
process at least for the bulk ofit.
Joshua Pruett (28:56):
So what was that?
Beth McMullen (28:57):
like for you to go from that one very
collaborative everybody puttingin universe to being alone with
your screen yeah, it's a greatquestion.
Joshua Pruett (29:07):
It's it's a.
It's a funky thing because it'slike, even conceptually, this
idea of like go off by yourselfand be brilliant, and it's like,
okay, sure, how does anybody dothat?
But for me it's like sometimesthat solo is respite, it's a.
You know, something that Ireally need because so much of
(29:30):
what I do is collaborative.
So there's definitely timeswhere I'm like you know what.
I don't want to ask anybody'sopinion about this, I don't want
feedback on this.
I have a really specific notionabout what this is.
I think the other thing is is Iloved, I wanted ownership over
some of the things that I did?
So not just you know, from alegal standpoint which I do and
(29:53):
we should talk about IP andthings like that but also, I
think, you know, emotionally,conceptually, being able to be
the arbiter myself, and you knowI would say I'm very lucky in
the course of my career whereI'm working with a lot of folks
like I've shared that.
That you know I am able tocontribute at a pretty high
level and that makes me feelgood, it makes me feel like I'm
(30:15):
a part of the team, like I'vereally contributed, and you know
, my batting average is getshigher for that as my career
progresses, which I'm hugelygrateful for.
But I think periodically it'sgood to be in the quiet on my
own.
You know where I get to makethose choices and I get to be
(30:36):
the driver.
I think part of it too is theis which projects I'm
determining that I want to dothat with.
So, like on, when ScottPeterson and I did shipwreckers
like, the high concept for thebook was you know, if Indiana
Jones was an idiot and you knowthe kids are short round, you
know they did all the work andyou know, had to save their
(30:59):
bacon, save them from, you know,living temples and big
adventures, jungle cruise typestuff.
But uh, you know that wassomething that really benefited
conceptually at every stage fromScott and I bouncing ideas off
each other and Euro, by itsnature, is a much more intimate
(31:19):
story and so when I'm looking at, you know, my board of ideas,
I'm actually organizing them inthat way.
So there's some things that I'velooked at and I said, nope,
that one's fine, this is the oneI have to get both hands around
and I'm going to just handlethis by myself.
And then there's other oneswhere I look at it and go.
No, no, no.
This project would be great tohave another brilliant head on.
(31:41):
I would love to work withsomebody on this or this, and
even the things that I hadplanned for the next couple of
years.
There's a balance.
There's there's some things I'mso excited about where I'm
going to be working with otherpeople.
Scott and I have another bookthat we're editing right now.
That's middle grade horror.
I'm so excited because wehaven't done anything officially
(32:02):
in that space and you know, maxand I are talking about things
and I have other hugely talentedcollaborators who want to work
with me, which is so exciting.
But yeah, for me it'sidentifying the project.
Which project could benefitfrom this sort of approach
versus a different approach?
Beth McMullen (32:20):
That's an interesting way to frame it.
So, rather than you know, youhave a lot of different options
before you, a lot of differentoptions before you in the way
that you see the story can fitinto these different boxes,
which I think is a cool way tothink about story overall.
Our last question for you andwe ask this of almost everybody
who comes on our show whatadvice would you give to
(32:44):
aspiring writers, either intelevision, somebody sitting
down to write their first middlegrade?
What words of wisdom would youhave to pass on to them?
Joshua Pruett (32:58):
There's a couple of things.
One is the.
I was talking to some folksrecently at a couple events,
some young people, and one ofthe biggest things is you know,
obviously the industry is scaryright now.
Things appear to be contracting.
You know, obviously theindustry is scary right now.
Things appear to be contracting, you know, and certainly I've
seen in my own career, I've seenanimation kind of ebb and flow
and film and TV ebb and flow andthings go up and down, but it's
(33:22):
pretty bleak out there rightnow.
So largely what I'm chattingwith folks about is this is the
perfect time to go and makethings.
Go write those books, go makethose graphic novels.
Go, you know, shoot shorts withyour friends, make stuff,
because there's going to be atime where some of this shakes
(33:42):
itself out and the folks who areinterested in buying and
publishing or television andfilm, they're going to get
hungry again, you know so.
So there is a ebb and flow tothis.
There's a cyclical nature tothis.
Right now is a great time tohunker down and write those
stories.
You know the thing that Ialways have to remind myself I
don't necessarily do as muchdevelopment in TV as I used to
do because I would.
(34:03):
Now I'm in a place where I'dmuch rather go and write the
story, and often development islike an exercise in asking
permission.
You have a lot more masters.
There's things that arebeneficial to that.
Sometimes it's money, sometimesit's networking and
establishing yourself with astudio or producers that you
want to work with but often youdon't get the chance to tell the
(34:23):
story and there's a lot oftalking about the story.
So I think now is a great timeto go and make the book,
actually go tell that story.
You don't have to ask forpermission, you just go do it.
So that's like, honestly, myadvice to myself that I've been
sharing with everybody lately,because you know, if you don't
(34:44):
write it, no one will, and and Ithink that there's a lot of
wisdom in this notion of likewrite what you want to read I
feel like that has reallybenefited me over the years.
It's opened up doors intoworlds that I have wanted to
work in and created newopportunities for me as well.
(35:06):
So I think that's the biggestone.
Beth McMullen (35:08):
I love that.
I think that that is how I havekind of molded my own writing
career.
I'm writing what I want to read, and that changes.
Joshua Pruett (35:17):
It's changed, it does.
Beth McMullen (35:18):
Yes, five years that I've been publishing, I
liked this and now I like this,and I think that's a really
smart way to think about it isthat you need to be doing the
work, and the trends come and go, stuff is popular and then it's
not, and then it is again, butif you don't have stuff ready to
put into the pipeline, you'renever going to get anywhere.
That's very wise.
Joshua Pruett (35:39):
Hopefully people pay attention to that and, you
know, jot it down, stick it ontheir, their board oh, one more
thing, beth, that I would loveto build on that if I could
really quick the.
The other thing is, I think,strategizing your career.
I think us as creatives, wedon't tend to use that other
side of our brain and I think,thinking ahead to where you want
to be in five years, what doesthat look like?
And thinking about itstrategically, you know, for
(36:02):
Scott and I initially it was.
You know, we did a novelizationof Jon Favreau's Jungle Book.
What that did?
Not a lot of money there,certainly not a lot of prestige.
The folks who read the bookenjoyed it, but it sold well and
it proved to the editors thatwe could produce.
And so we use that as anopportunity to pitch
(36:25):
shipwreckers.
And so for me, part of thatstrategy is like leveraging
something that you've done or dowell, or it's something that
you want to do.
On Mystery Science Theater, Ihad an opportunity where they
needed somebody at a price to dostoryboards for the relaunch of
the series for Netflix, and Iwas a fan and I was into it and
(36:45):
I was, you know, sign me updream come true for 13 year old
Josh.
But as I was doing the work anddelivering what they needed.
I asked if I could also writeriffs and Joel the creator he
was, he was down.
He was like, yeah, of course,absolutely.
So I got the chance to writefor one of my favorite shows
ever, ever.
But I was only in that positionbecause there was something
(37:07):
that I could do that they needed.
So I think it's like you know,there's certainly people who you
know can take that into anegative way, where maybe people
are worried about beingmanipulative or something.
But I think it has more to dowith what can you offer somebody
else and how do you be helpful,how can you support others?
And then it's hey, you ask, youknow you ask about that thing
(37:29):
that you really want.
And then it's hey, you ask, youknow you ask about that thing
that you really want.
But I think, taking a beat,thinking short term and long
term about your strategies, as acreative person, I'm not sure
that we do that enough, you know, because largely we're just
trying to find the next thing,trying to make that next
connection or create that nextopportunity.
But I think, if you're thinkingahead, you know, I think
there's a significant benefit tothat.
If you're thinking ahead, youknow, I think there's a
(37:49):
significant benefit to that.
Beth McMullen (37:50):
That is actually really, I think, smart too,
because I know a lot of creativepeople aren't thinking like
that.
It's more reactive.
Yes, and you can be proactive.
I liked your example of I gotmy foot in the door this way.
Yeah, Proved that I'm reliable.
You know, I show up, I do thework and then you ask for the
thing and all they can do is sayno.
(38:11):
That's right, but if you never,ask you never know, so I think
that is a great note for us towrap up on Awesome and thank you
.
Thank you, Josh, for being here.
This has been super interesting.
I know there's always a lot ofinterest in kind of how you can
be a writer in different spaces,so this, I think, will be a
great episode for our listeners.
(38:34):
Oh, my pleasure and listeners,remember you can find out more
about Josh on his website, whichI'll put in the podcast notes
and the blog, and be sure tovisit writerswithfrinklesnet to
follow, support and share aboutthe show.
And we will see you again nextweek, june 3rd, for a deep dive
episode.
So, one more time, thank youfor joining us, josh.
Joshua Pruett (38:53):
My pleasure, my pleasure and until we see you
again.
Beth McMullen (38:57):
Happy reading, writing and listening.
Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen and I'm Lisa
Schmid, and we're the co-hostsof Writers with Wrinkles.
This is season three, episode22.
And today we are excited towelcome Joshua Pruitt to the
show.
Joshua is a New York Times andUSA Today bestselling author and
Emmy award winner, and is theonly human being on earth to
have written for both MysteryScience Theater 3000 and Doctor
(00:23):
who.
He is a writer on the upcomingreturn of Phineas and Ferb and
the co-author of the last comicson Earth graphic novel series.
His first solo middle-gradeseries, euro and the Argonauts,
pitched as the Hitchhiker'sGuide to Greek Mythology, a
revisionist take on classicalmyths where the monsters become
the heroes they were alwaysmeant to be recently sold to
(00:44):
andrews mcmill kids and will hitbookstores and libraries in the
summer of 2025.
So welcome, joshua.
We are super excited to haveyou here.
Joshua Pruett (00:53):
You've been busy I'm thrilled to be here.
Beth McMullen (00:55):
Hi beth, hi lisa, thank you, yes, always busy,
too busy I know, but you knowthe alternative is like sitting
there staring at your inboxgoing why isn't anything
happening?
Joshua Pruett (01:07):
So what if there's an equilibrium that we
reach for?
What if there's that?
Beth McMullen (01:12):
What I don't know .
Are you implying there'sbalance?
Joshua Pruett (01:16):
I don't know what that is Fictional, mythological
place called balance.
Beth McMullen (01:21):
Yeah, so huge congratulations upfront on
hitting, hitting usa today thankyou weekly bestseller for too
many villains, which came out atthe end of april, if I'm
writing that right correct?
Yes we're gonna talk about thatin a minute, but first I want
to hear all about the middlegrade series that andrews and
camille will be putting out nextsummer.
(01:42):
So if you can tell us a littlebit about that, that would be
fabulous.
Joshua Pruett (01:45):
Oh, I'm thrilled too.
Thank you for asking.
I am freaking out about thisone.
This is one I've actually beenworking on for some time and one
of these situations where youwrite a book and then you go do
other things and then you comeback to that book and you
strengthen it, and so this onehas been kind of my baby this to
(02:05):
that book and you strengthen it, and so this one has been kind
of my baby.
This one has been kind of mylabor of love and it comes out
of, you know, growing up withRay Harryhausen special effects
movies like Jason and theArgonauts and Clash of the
Titans, and my parents weresuper into those and so exposed
those to me when I was a youngman and you know, and Mel Brooks
movies, and so I kind of overtime, realized that some of the
(02:30):
choices that were made, thecreative choices in these
stories you know they did notquote unquote adhere to the
original stories that the poetskind of set down.
And in my research, just out ofcuriosity, I discovered that
even the poets did some remixingand that you know it wasn't
Perseus on Pegasus, it wasBellerophon.
(02:50):
Bellerophon was a differentcharacter.
It was not quite as popular asPerseus is and kind of.
The more research I did, themore I realized that there was a
lot of creative invention thatwas going on and kind of the
myths as we understand them oras interpreted by Edith Hamilton
or Bullfinch is they're allreally different.
And so it occurred to me thatlike there was an opportunity
there, but also a thematicopportunity where you know what,
(03:12):
if you have a Greek geek likeme, a kid who loves heroes and
is afraid of monsters, who findshimself in a position where he
realizes that there is a wholelot more to the monsters than he
thought and a whole lot less tothe heroes that he admires, and
, upon rewrite, discovered thatI was actually writing a little
(03:34):
bit of my own story.
Very early in my career Istarted in production, in
animation, and wanted to getinto a creative career as a
storyboard artist and then alsorealized that I wanted to do
some writing and got a lot ofpushback and there were a lot of
obstacles that I had toovercome, a lot of people trying
to dictate my story to me, andso by the time I finished
(03:55):
writing here, I realized that'swhat it was about.
It was about people takingtheir story back, these monsters
taking their story back, andhow important it is to write
your own story.
So I'm so excited to get thisbook into kids' hands.
It's super funny, super warm,lots of big adventure and just
insanely goofy, insanely goofybook.
Beth McMullen (04:18):
I love that.
It sounds like it's hitting allof the marks for middle grade
books.
You can see the kids sitting inthe corner giggling away
reading the book.
I also love that theme of youknow refusing to go in the box.
You're not gonna put me in thisbox and tell me what I am.
(04:38):
I think that's a great theme,especially for those kids of
that age who are trying tofigure out who am I.
Lisa Schmid (04:44):
Am I who you?
Beth McMullen (04:45):
say I am or am I who?
I say I am.
Joshua Pruett (04:47):
And it's as timeless, as kind of those
mythological heroes and villains.
It's like that's something thatI think we all need to hear
from time to time.
Beth McMullen (04:55):
So in your head, how many titles are going to be
in this series?
Are you just saying you knowI'm launching the first one and
then we'll see where we're at?
Joshua Pruett (05:04):
Yeah, a great question.
You know we I'm I'm booked fortwo, I'm contracted for two.
The next one, you know,features the origin of the
Olympics, in a crazy kind ofupside down way, or capital
games, I should say, and youknow I've got stories for a lot
more.
You know, eventually the fun ofit is remixing these stories so
(05:29):
that we kind of back our wayinto the classics and getting a
sense of you know, Euro,actually helping to get things
on track into the myths as weunderstand them, but in a way of
unpacking these heroes andvillains and all of these
multiplicities of relationshipsand getting into.
(05:50):
Medusa is one of my favoritecharacters and in Yiro my
version of her is that she andPerseus used to be boyfriend and
girlfriend and it went southand the poets turned on her and
there's a life that she wouldlove to get back to and most
people think she's dead andshe's not.
And so as the series kind ofgrows, Medusa ends up being kind
(06:14):
of a mentor for Yuro and Ireally love their relationship.
She's kind of like a big sisterto him.
Beth McMullen (06:20):
I think Medusa got old school canceled.
Joshua Pruett (06:23):
Yeah, oh, she really did.
She really did.
Everyone thought she had herhead chopped off, and no, she
just got dumped.
Beth McMullen (06:29):
It's never been easy.
Joshua Pruett (06:31):
No, not, ever, not ever.
Beth McMullen (06:35):
Well, that is super exciting.
We are looking forward to thatin 2025.
And we will definitely try tohave you back right around your
launch so we can talk about howit's gone, I think this sounds
like exactly the kind of bookthat I, when I was writing
middle grade, I was all aboutlike the action, adventure, the
humor, raising up the ridiculous.
Joshua Pruett (06:57):
Oh, wonderful.
Beth McMullen (06:57):
It was fun to write.
It's really fun to write and Ithink it's fun to read, so I
think your book is wellpositioned for success.
Okay, speaking about successToo Many Villains, which is what
entry in the last comics onEarth is it.
Is it number two?
Joshua Pruett (07:15):
or three, it's number two.
We tried to do a clever thingwith the title because
apparently folks, they don'tlike to put numbers in the
sequels anymore, so we thoughtwe were being clever.
And you know, two for too many.
Beth McMullen (07:27):
Right, and clearly I am not clever, because
I just totally missed that.
That was not the first time.
I'm not young enough to get it,I guess maybe that's what we
should say.
Joshua Pruett (07:37):
Yes, we're always trying to be.
Beth McMullen (07:40):
So this is the series that you do with Max
Brailyard.
Is that that's right?
Right, we get a lot ofquestions about partnership,
writing and co-writing, thingsof that nature on the show.
Are you able to tell us just alittle bit about what that is
like working with Max and howyou define your roles and just
how the process works for youguys, because obviously you're
(08:01):
doing it in a successful way?
So if you can just give us apeek, yeah absolutely Well.
Joshua Pruett (08:06):
First off, it's important to note Max is the
worst.
No, he's not.
Max is a dear friend and we hitit off working on the animated
series.
So I was brought on by ScottPeterson, who I also co-write
with on other things, like abook we did called Shipwreckers,
and we also write on Phineastogether.
(08:27):
But coming onto that show, maxand I hit it off.
He and Scott and I have a lotof shared interests in horror,
in gateway horror, monsters andzombies, all these things that
Max and illustrator Doug Holgatebuilt up for the Last Kids
series proper.
And so, working together andkind of building the hive mind
(08:47):
that you make on a writing roomin a writing room, you know we
really hit it off and hadsimilar sensibilities.
And so when the time came topotentially spin off the series,
max asked me on board and andwe built kind of a funky spinoff
where, essentially because inLast Kids Proper these are our
(09:08):
four kids, they are the lastkids on Earth there's a lot of
stakes, a lot of saving theworld, there's a lot of comedy,
a lot of warmth and characterand there's also no more comics
being made.
So there is a comic book storethat Doug and Max put called
Comically Speaking, in thecenter of Wakefield, in the
proper universe, and it occurredto us that there would be no
(09:29):
more comics and that at somepoint the kids would notice they
would probably read every comicin the comic shop and there
wouldn't be any left.
So they do what any kid woulddo they make their own.
So Jack, quint, june and Dirkwrite their own sequel to their
favorite comic book series abouta hero called Z-Man, and they
put themselves with superheroalter egos into that comic book.
(09:51):
So what we're seeing, asillustrated by Jay Cooper, who's
an amazing collaborator and ahilariously funny illustrator
and writer in his own right,essentially he is Quint's hand.
So Quint, the character, isdrawing this book and then all
the kids are writing, and sothat's kind of the comic, the
concept at the heart of it, andwe've built a giant sandbox for
(10:14):
ourselves and essentially itcomes down to Max and I staying
up very late at night because weeach have other
responsibilities and jobs and wetry to make each other laugh at
like three o'clock in themorning and whatever makes us
laugh sticks.
And so we, as far as ourspecific collaboration goes now
that I've given you a very longcontext, the way the
(10:38):
collaboration works is that Maxand I will actually break out an
outline together, so we'recoming up with all of the main
story beats.
Usually we're doing this overZoom.
Sometimes we get the chance tohang out and we'll actually do
like a corkboard and we'll donote cards, kind of in a TV
writing or script writing style,because we both have that
(10:59):
experience and we're coming upwith kind of the large story
beats, four acts, four actstructure, and then we kind of
take that big malleable shapeand then we start putting jokes
in there and it's really aboutcan we find a character story?
You know we pitch things toeach other and, granted, you
know, max is, this is really hisbaby, so he's definitely
(11:22):
driving, but I spend a lot oftime backseat driving and, and
you know, barking orders at himor where we think where I think
we should be headed, but reallyit's like funniest gags, win, um
, you know.
And and if we both are crackingup, that means it's got a good
chance of kind of sticking thelanding and getting in the final
(11:43):
book.
Yeah, we don't, we don't arguetoo much.
There's definitely times where,like I am arguing for something
weirder and stupider and youknow he might give me one or two
.
There's.
There's a character inparticular in this book called
Public Domain Dracula.
We go to an apocalypse full ofvampires and one of them is a
(12:03):
guy named Public Domain Draculawho has like a cheesy, trick or
treat looking costume.
And there's a moment in thebook where we had to convince
our editor two rounds of copyeditors that we have to leave it
in because it's notgrammatically correct or make
any sense at all.
But it's some of my favoritestuff in the book.
(12:25):
Public domain dracula ishilarious.
You know he says things likewelcome to my public domain.
You know it's.
It's weird, it's really weird.
And, like you know, half of thekids won't get it.
Other kids will ask theirparent what public domain means.
Beth McMullen (12:38):
We do define it in the book I can just see a
copy editor losing sleep overthat, you know.
Joshua Pruett (12:45):
Oh my gosh, yes, yes.
Beth McMullen (12:47):
Was it easier for the second book collaborating,
do you?
Did you feel like you were itwas just an easier process on
book two because you'd done italready, or was it?
Did you feel like, okay, youknow?
Joshua Pruett (13:03):
you would think so, for for some reason and I
couldn't I mean, we both have alot on our plate, so that can
certainly make it a challenge,but for some reason, two was
definitely harder, but it's alsoa weirder book, so in some ways
I'm grateful for it because Ithink it pushed us into some
stranger areas.
You know, we introduced aconcept in book one.
(13:26):
We have all these apocalypses,so there's a land called
Apocalyptia.
It's every apocalypse you canthink of exists in this world.
Scott, let's see, max and Iwanted to have the biggest
sandbox possible, and so one ofthem that we threw out as a gag
was the knock-knock jokeapocalypse, which again is
abstract and doesn't make anysense.
(13:46):
But because of where we wereheaded in book two, there was an
opportunity for us to actuallygo there, and so max and I had
to actually think about whatthat meant visually, and then
kind of work in collaborationwith jay, like what are we going
to see when we go to aknock-knock joke apocalypse?
Um, and I think that came outof, you know, a harder process.
(14:06):
I think that came out of usstruggling a little bit more
with the story this time, but Ithink we ended up in a place
where it benefited.
Because it is a it is a wildride book too.
Beth McMullen (14:19):
I'm going to go and get myself a copy because it
sounds like exactly the sort ofstuff that cracks me up.
Oh good, where I you knowpublic domain Dracula.
That's right in my wheelhouse,that's awesome.
Joshua Pruett (14:32):
I literally got a hat made for my signings.
I went to the mall and like hadthem embroider it.
It doesn't, you know, itdoesn't make any sense, but it
makes me deliriously happy.
Lisa Schmid (14:45):
So we are going to transition into television,
because that is a huge part ofyour career and everything that
you've accomplished.
And I should note that I am ahuge Doctor who fan, as I think
you already know, and I'm also ahuge Phineas and Ferb fan.
Yeah, love both of those.
(15:05):
So, with that in mind, what wasyour first television job and
how the heck did you land it?
Like that's, you know that'spretty incredible to get to work
in television every day it is.
Joshua Pruett (15:17):
It's a dream really, and I found the longer
I'm in it, the more I prefer it.
I started my career in featureanimation at DreamWorks and I
worked in production and thenmoved into being a server artist
but was doing a lot of writingand the first gig was Phineas
back in 2011.
So I joined the team in 2011for season four, so that was
(15:39):
actually my first TV job, andthe thing I loved about
television was all the at bats,the opportunities for stories,
the like.
Like essentially, every sixweeks we're doing something new.
Every six to eight weeks we dosomething new, and so I loved
that.
There was a hunger for story.
(15:59):
What I had encountered at thefeature level was that, because
these projects were 80 to $90million, there was so much
writing on it that folks gotprecious or you would be working
on something for months andmonths and months and months or
years in most cases, and thething with TV was that they were
hungry for story.
I didn't always feel like thatwas the case.
(16:20):
I definitely ran intosituations at the feature level
and certainly I was a young, youknow guy, I was still in
training, but, you know, I justhad lots of ideas and would run
into situations where peopledidn't want them and like I just
didn't understand.
Like, of course, you knowthere's politics and diplomacy
and all of that, and sometimesI'm obnoxious about that.
But in the TV side there was,like there's like this need,
(16:44):
it's hungry.
You know the machine of workingon a animated TV series.
You know we've got 22,.
On average, half hours ofmaterial that needs to be
produced, and so in that there'stwo 11 minute episodes, which
means you're talking about 38 to40 stories that need to be
(17:05):
broken, written, storyboarded,edited, et cetera.
And and that's awesome, that isso exciting, that is such a
great, huge, giant opportunity.
And so you can take risks, youcan throw things against the
wall and see what sticks.
You can take 11 minutes andexplore one character and get
(17:25):
into their head, get into theirpersonality and their wants and
needs, and then do somethingcompletely different in the next
episode.
So I just I'm on fire aboutthat.
I love that because I'm I'm thekind of person who, like I'm
sure, like you, both of you youknow you've got your board of
all of your ideas right that youwant to do, and if you started
(17:48):
now and, let's say, you couldafford yourself the opportunity
to pursue each and every one.
You would never run out, and soI'm in a similar position.
So it's like I love playing inother people's sandboxes.
Like you know the audio bookthat I did for Doctor who, for
Big Finish, and you know thework I've done on other TV
series, it's great to play inother people's sandboxes because
(18:09):
I always feel like that sandboxmay appear restrictive but I
think you are free to dig deepin that sandbox and, you know,
go up kind of above that sandbox.
If you stay within kind of theconstraints, I think constraints
can be really freeing.
Lisa Schmid (18:25):
And Phineas and Ferb is such a funny little
irreverent show, Just like itjust rocks me up and the
characters are so unique and tobe able to write for those that
cast of characters must be somuch fun it's a gift, like it's
a gift of a universe and a placeto play in.
Joshua Pruett (18:43):
Yeah, it's wonderful.
I love it.
I would do it forever.
I would I would genuinely do itforever.
Lisa Schmid (18:47):
Well, as a fan, I would say yes, do it there was
one time.
This is just like a little sidestory.
So I started watching itbecause my son was, you know, at
the time when he was watching.
It was like three or four and Iwas like come on, let's watch
this show.
This looks funny and we were atDisneyland one time and they
(19:08):
came walking up, up like thelittle characters.
Joshua Pruett (19:11):
Oh, my goodness.
Lisa Schmid (19:12):
I lost my mind.
I was like my God, it's Phineasand Ferb and my son's just like
, oh my God, mom settle.
And then they walked out and Iwas dancing with them and my
husband has it like on film andI was just like trying to get my
son to dance and he's just like, yeah, now.
Joshua Pruett (19:30):
Oh, I love it.
I love it, mom.
Lisa Schmid (19:31):
You're so cringe, mom, that exists everything, so
that must have just been so muchfun.
And then everything else thatyou've worked on is just you've.
You've got it going on well.
Joshua Pruett (19:43):
Thanks, lisa.
Yeah, being a part of stuffthat people love is like amazing
, because I, because I've been apart of things that people
ignore or they they didn't watchor that they don't embrace that
much.
So you know that, yeah, it's agift to be able to be a part of
something that people feel thatstrongly about.
That's huge and and I feellucky and privileged that I'll.
Lisa Schmid (20:02):
You know, I'm gonna get to carry that with me kind
of forever, you know well, it'sfunny when I saw that was in
your bio when I first likesomehow I can't remember how we
connected on Twitter and when Iread your bio I'm like, oh my
god, this guy is like my newbest friend.
Beth McMullen (20:19):
Lisa is your number one fan.
So, this is actually a good.
This is a good segue into ournext question, because you were
talking about how you enjoybeing creative and, with these
constraints, put on you kind ofthat idea of playing in somebody
else's sandbox, like here's anidea, this is the TV show that
we're making.
You're the writer in thewriter's room.
(20:40):
So how does that collaborationwork?
So you're the writer, you'vegot this idea that you're, you
know, part of a bigger, you know, series, whatever.
How are you working withproducers and directors?
And what are the, I guess, whatare the stakes for you as a
writer who maybe did notoriginate the show Like it's not
(21:02):
your show where you came upwith the idea, but you're in
that room trying to make ithappen.
How do all these parts gotogether?
Joshua Pruett (21:09):
Yeah, that's a great question.
You know, certainly it'sdifferent in show to show.
I will say that kind of thebest, the best experiences I've
had are where it's a very openand collaborative space, and I
don't mean that in a flippantway, I mean like literally.
So in other words, working withpeople who aren't threatened by
(21:29):
new ideas, people who genuinelywant you to push and stretch at
the borders of what defineswhatever that show or that
property or, you know, thatlegacy thing like Doctor who is.
And really it does come down toleadership.
It comes down to, you know,because I've worked with plenty
of people who are threatened bygood ideas and I've been blessed
(21:51):
in my career to work with ahandful of folks who aren't
threatened by a good idea,because they know how to do
everyone's job.
You know there's a directcorrelation I found with folks,
especially in the animated space, you know, who want to go home
at the end of the day.
You know, who have people thatthey care about, you know, in
(22:12):
their lives, and the, the seriesis a part of that, the show is
a part of that, and so thatreally it trickles down from
leadership.
And so I think first it reallystarts with, you know head
writers and producers who, whowant the stuff you know, who are
anxious for it, who are hungryfor it.
So I think that's step one.
(22:33):
One of the things that I learnedin my career that I always
thought was really interestingis that there's there's never a
conversation where someone says,okay, well, we want to make
sure this is really good.
Like nobody says that, likethat's actually a part.
There's a self kind ofsupervisory part of this process
where you have your ownintention, you have goals that
(22:55):
you've set out as a creativeperson.
So for me, part of it is whatdo I bring to the table?
So for me it's like I lovemonster movies, I love science
fiction, I love doctor who, Ilove Theater, so I am going to
automatically pitch things thatpush whatever show I'm on in
those directions.
But I'm also a big softie andI'm a dad and so I you know
(23:20):
Scott kind of coined.
This years ago there was anepisode of Milo Murphy's Law
that I wrote that got nominatedfor an Annie Award.
That was very exciting.
And you know, when I turned inthat script he was like Josh,
you know, this is you, it'sweird, it's funny, it's warm and
it's insane.
And I was like, oh, that's mybrand.
(23:41):
I was like that's what I do.
So that's been kind of mychecklist kind of since then was
identifying oh, like, these aremy superpowers.
And and then for me, for theother part of that puzzle is,
you know, I'm also a bigstructure guy.
So I love getting the chance,especially on some larger
(24:01):
episodes that I might work on.
Like, if you look at mytrajectory, like for people
playing, paying very closeattention, you might notice that
you know, my name is on a lotof these larger specials or mid
season finales or season finales, because my brain tends to go
there, you know, and and I'mkind of a geek for structure,
(24:25):
like I love kind of getting asense of the whole and being
like, oh good, if we line upthese pieces in the right way,
you know we could have somethingthat really pays off and that
feels like a rich reward for theviewers who are invested.
But yeah, I think, as far asthat actual environment goes,
yeah, it's about figuring outhow to support each other,
(24:46):
having a room of folks who wantto support each other's stories.
I've definitely been insituations where I pitched
something and it looks like itwas dying on the vine because
the producers felt one way oranother about it, but then was
supported by my team and thatreally could make or break a
high concept or gettingsomething across the finish line
(25:07):
.
And I've been in situationswhere the opposite was true and
at a certain point that you know, that started to affect my
standing on the show becausefolks' impression of what I was
pitching or writing was that itwasn't up to snuff.
But the reality was, you know,I wasn't getting the support.
That support and advocacy isimportant.
So I think one of the thingsthat I've tried to build as a
(25:28):
discipline, as a muscle, is, youknow, how can I support other
people in the room the way Iwant to be supported, getting
behind other people's storyideas, helping get things across
that finish line, because noone pitches something they don't
like.
The reality is it takes timeand effort, heart, to build
(25:48):
these things and have theconfidence to pitch them to very
smart and talented people on aweekly basis.
So nobody pitches somethingthey think is going to be
terrible.
Everybody pitches stuff theywant to see made.
Lisa Schmid (25:54):
So that is like the perfect segue into the next
question, because you've alreadybeen talking about it and what
it's like in the writer's roomand how this dynamic influences
the scripts and, like I said,you've already touched on it,
but I would love to hear more onthat.
Joshua Pruett (26:10):
Yeah, yeah, it's, and again, I think it's it's.
One of the superpowers of TV isis you know, when you get eight
or 10 people in a room all ofdifferent life backgrounds, life
experiences, funny, and havetheir own superpowers, right,
like, if I'm structure guy andweird sci-fi horror guy, there's
going to be, you know, a womanacross the room who's super into
(26:33):
like character nuance, right?
So then the idea is, if wecombine our superpowers, if we
get these really talented andsmart people, everything gets
better.
And the beauty part aboutworking in animation is that
it's iterative.
So essentially, you haveopportunities at the script
stage to punch things up.
You have opportunity at thestoryboard stage, you have
(26:53):
opportunities in editorial andthen even in color to tweak
jokes, make things sing, makethings better.
But it's like if that room isopen and warm and positive,
everyone is helping each other,everyone is genuinely invested
in making that script, that idea, the best it can possibly be.
(27:16):
And when it's not, you knowthat's how you get into like
toxic spaces where it's reallycompetitive and people are
trying to knock each other downor, like you know, kill ideas,
et cetera.
It's very ugly and you know, Ihave, I have friends in the live
action space and it's verydifferent, very different
environments.
It can be uh, but yeah, whenit's working, that's what it is.
(27:40):
When it's working, it really islike it's a chorus, it's a band
, you know it's.
It's like oh great, you know,sometimes I'll pitch something,
I'll bring something into theroom and there'll be somebody
specific that I want their, Iwant everyone's input.
But absolutely there are timeswhere it's like, oh, I would
really love your instinct onthis because I haven't cracked
(28:00):
it and you know that's a safeand creative place to be in and
I think it shows, you know, Ithink the people yeah, beth,
good I have a question.
Beth McMullen (28:12):
Yes, that just occurred to me.
So you have done all of thiscollaborative work.
The way that you describe thewriter's room very collaborative
, I like what you said aboutthis is this person's superpower
, this is mine.
When we put them together, wow,amazing episode, amazing
character development.
You worked with Max on the LastComics on Earth.
(28:34):
What was it like to do yoursolo middle grade?
The Eurobooks Was that hard,because everything is your
responsibility, is yourresponsibility and we we know,
as fellow writers, that writingnovels is a very solitary
(28:55):
process at least for the bulk ofit.
Joshua Pruett (28:56):
So what was that?
Beth McMullen (28:57):
like for you to go from that one very
collaborative everybody puttingin universe to being alone with
your screen yeah, it's a greatquestion.
Joshua Pruett (29:07):
It's it's a.
It's a funky thing because it'slike, even conceptually, this
idea of like go off by yourselfand be brilliant, and it's like,
okay, sure, how does anybody dothat?
But for me it's like sometimesthat solo is respite, it's a.
You know, something that Ireally need because so much of
(29:30):
what I do is collaborative.
So there's definitely timeswhere I'm like you know what.
I don't want to ask anybody'sopinion about this, I don't want
feedback on this.
I have a really specific notionabout what this is.
I think the other thing is is Iloved, I wanted ownership over
some of the things that I did?
So not just you know, from alegal standpoint which I do and
(29:53):
we should talk about IP andthings like that but also, I
think, you know, emotionally,conceptually, being able to be
the arbiter myself, and you knowI would say I'm very lucky in
the course of my career whereI'm working with a lot of folks
like I've shared that.
That you know I am able tocontribute at a pretty high
level and that makes me feelgood, it makes me feel like I'm
(30:15):
a part of the team, like I'vereally contributed, and you know
, my batting average is getshigher for that as my career
progresses, which I'm hugelygrateful for.
But I think periodically it'sgood to be in the quiet on my
own.
You know where I get to makethose choices and I get to be
(30:36):
the driver.
I think part of it too is theis which projects I'm
determining that I want to dothat with.
So, like on, when ScottPeterson and I did shipwreckers
like, the high concept for thebook was you know, if Indiana
Jones was an idiot and you knowthe kids are short round, you
know they did all the work andyou know, had to save their
(30:59):
bacon, save them from, you know,living temples and big
adventures, jungle cruise typestuff.
But uh, you know that wassomething that really benefited
conceptually at every stage fromScott and I bouncing ideas off
each other and Euro, by itsnature, is a much more intimate
(31:19):
story and so when I'm looking at, you know, my board of ideas,
I'm actually organizing them inthat way.
So there's some things that I'velooked at and I said, nope,
that one's fine, this is the oneI have to get both hands around
and I'm going to just handlethis by myself.
And then there's other oneswhere I look at it and go.
No, no, no.
This project would be great tohave another brilliant head on.
(31:41):
I would love to work withsomebody on this or this, and
even the things that I hadplanned for the next couple of
years.
There's a balance.
There's there's some things I'mso excited about where I'm
going to be working with otherpeople.
Scott and I have another bookthat we're editing right now.
That's middle grade horror.
I'm so excited because wehaven't done anything officially
(32:02):
in that space and you know, maxand I are talking about things
and I have other hugely talentedcollaborators who want to work
with me, which is so exciting.
But yeah, for me it'sidentifying the project.
Which project could benefitfrom this sort of approach
versus a different approach?
Beth McMullen (32:20):
That's an interesting way to frame it.
So, rather than you know, youhave a lot of different options
before you, a lot of differentoptions before you in the way
that you see the story can fitinto these different boxes,
which I think is a cool way tothink about story overall.
Our last question for you andwe ask this of almost everybody
who comes on our show whatadvice would you give to
(32:44):
aspiring writers, either intelevision, somebody sitting
down to write their first middlegrade?
What words of wisdom would youhave to pass on to them?
Joshua Pruett (32:58):
There's a couple of things.
One is the.
I was talking to some folksrecently at a couple events,
some young people, and one ofthe biggest things is you know,
obviously the industry is scaryright now.
Things appear to be contracting.
You know, obviously theindustry is scary right now.
Things appear to be contracting, you know, and certainly I've
seen in my own career, I've seenanimation kind of ebb and flow
and film and TV ebb and flow andthings go up and down, but it's
(33:22):
pretty bleak out there rightnow.
So largely what I'm chattingwith folks about is this is the
perfect time to go and makethings.
Go write those books, go makethose graphic novels.
Go, you know, shoot shorts withyour friends, make stuff,
because there's going to be atime where some of this shakes
(33:42):
itself out and the folks who areinterested in buying and
publishing or television andfilm, they're going to get
hungry again, you know so.
So there is a ebb and flow tothis.
There's a cyclical nature tothis.
Right now is a great time tohunker down and write those
stories.
You know the thing that Ialways have to remind myself I
don't necessarily do as muchdevelopment in TV as I used to
do because I would.
(34:03):
Now I'm in a place where I'dmuch rather go and write the
story, and often development islike an exercise in asking
permission.
You have a lot more masters.
There's things that arebeneficial to that.
Sometimes it's money, sometimesit's networking and
establishing yourself with astudio or producers that you
want to work with but often youdon't get the chance to tell the
(34:23):
story and there's a lot oftalking about the story.
So I think now is a great timeto go and make the book,
actually go tell that story.
You don't have to ask forpermission, you just go do it.
So that's like, honestly, myadvice to myself that I've been
sharing with everybody lately,because you know, if you don't
(34:44):
write it, no one will, and and Ithink that there's a lot of
wisdom in this notion of likewrite what you want to read I
feel like that has reallybenefited me over the years.
It's opened up doors intoworlds that I have wanted to
work in and created newopportunities for me as well.
(35:06):
So I think that's the biggestone.
Beth McMullen (35:08):
I love that.
I think that that is how I havekind of molded my own writing
career.
I'm writing what I want to read, and that changes.
Joshua Pruett (35:17):
It's changed, it does.
Beth McMullen (35:18):
Yes, five years that I've been publishing, I
liked this and now I like this,and I think that's a really
smart way to think about it isthat you need to be doing the
work, and the trends come and go, stuff is popular and then it's
not, and then it is again, butif you don't have stuff ready to
put into the pipeline, you'renever going to get anywhere.
That's very wise.
Joshua Pruett (35:39):
Hopefully people pay attention to that and, you
know, jot it down, stick it ontheir, their board oh, one more
thing, beth, that I would loveto build on that if I could
really quick the.
The other thing is, I think,strategizing your career.
I think us as creatives, wedon't tend to use that other
side of our brain and I think,thinking ahead to where you want
to be in five years, what doesthat look like?
And thinking about itstrategically, you know, for
(36:02):
Scott and I initially it was.
You know, we did a novelizationof Jon Favreau's Jungle Book.
What that did?
Not a lot of money there,certainly not a lot of prestige.
The folks who read the bookenjoyed it, but it sold well and
it proved to the editors thatwe could produce.
And so we use that as anopportunity to pitch
(36:25):
shipwreckers.
And so for me, part of thatstrategy is like leveraging
something that you've done or dowell, or it's something that
you want to do.
On Mystery Science Theater, Ihad an opportunity where they
needed somebody at a price to dostoryboards for the relaunch of
the series for Netflix, and Iwas a fan and I was into it and
(36:45):
I was, you know, sign me updream come true for 13 year old
Josh.
But as I was doing the work anddelivering what they needed.
I asked if I could also writeriffs and Joel the creator he
was, he was down.
He was like, yeah, of course,absolutely.
So I got the chance to writefor one of my favorite shows
ever, ever.
But I was only in that positionbecause there was something
(37:07):
that I could do that they needed.
So I think it's like you know,there's certainly people who you
know can take that into anegative way, where maybe people
are worried about beingmanipulative or something.
But I think it has more to dowith what can you offer somebody
else and how do you be helpful,how can you support others?
And then it's hey, you ask, youknow you ask about that thing
(37:29):
that you really want.
And then it's hey, you ask, youknow you ask about that thing
that you really want.
But I think, taking a beat,thinking short term and long
term about your strategies, as acreative person, I'm not sure
that we do that enough, you know, because largely we're just
trying to find the next thing,trying to make that next
connection or create that nextopportunity.
But I think, if you're thinkingahead, you know, I think
there's a significant benefit tothat.
If you're thinking ahead, youknow, I think there's a
(37:49):
significant benefit to that.
Beth McMullen (37:50):
That is actually really, I think, smart too,
because I know a lot of creativepeople aren't thinking like
that.
It's more reactive.
Yes, and you can be proactive.
I liked your example of I gotmy foot in the door this way.
Yeah, Proved that I'm reliable.
You know, I show up, I do thework and then you ask for the
thing and all they can do is sayno.
(38:11):
That's right, but if you never,ask you never know, so I think
that is a great note for us towrap up on Awesome and thank you
.
Thank you, Josh, for being here.
This has been super interesting.
I know there's always a lot ofinterest in kind of how you can
be a writer in different spaces,so this, I think, will be a
great episode for our listeners.
(38:34):
Oh, my pleasure and listeners,remember you can find out more
about Josh on his website, whichI'll put in the podcast notes
and the blog, and be sure tovisit writerswithfrinklesnet to
follow, support and share aboutthe show.
And we will see you again nextweek, june 3rd, for a deep dive
episode.
So, one more time, thank youfor joining us, josh.
Joshua Pruett (38:53):
My pleasure, my pleasure and until we see you
again.
Beth McMullen (38:57):
Happy reading, writing and listening.
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