April 29, 2024 • 38 mins
In this episode, we interview Bitsy Kemper, a prolific author of children's books and a passionate advocate for authors navigating the publishing industry.
The theme of this episode revolves around the resilience required in the publishing industry, including the personal challenges and triumphs of maintaining a career in writing over time. The discussion also touches on ghostwriting and practical advice for aspiring authors.
Key Discussion Point
1. Bitsy Kemper's Journey: From marketing to becoming a celebrated children's book author, highlighting her persistence and adaptability.
2. Overcoming Rejection: We discuss how to handle rejection in the publishing world, emphasizing it's not personal but rather about finding the right fit.
3. Ghostwriting and Writing for Hire: Bitsy explains her experiences and the skills necessary to succeed in ghostwriting, including how to adopt the voice of the client and the importance of discretion.
4. Advice for Aspiring Authors: Practical tips on navigating the publishing landscape, leveraging platforms like SCBWI, and how to use personal and professional challenges as growth opportunities.
5. Thirty-One Day Author Platform Challenge: Bitsy introduces a program designed to help writers enhance their online presence incrementally, which is crucial in today’s digital-forward publishing environment.
Bitsy's insights provide invaluable lessons on perseverance, not taking rejections personally, and strategic career maneuvers in writing. She emphasizes the importance of community support, continuous learning, and strategic marketing to sustain a successful writing career.
Mentioned Links:
Website
31 Day Platform Challenge
List of Publishers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Beth McMullen (00:00):
Hi friends.
I'm Beth McMullen,
Lisa Schmid (00:02):
and I'm Lisa Schmid ,
Beth McMullen (00:03):
and we're the cohost of writers with wrinkles.
This is season three episodeeighteen, and today we are
excited to welcome Bixie Kemperto the show.
From humble beginnings as theyoungest of five kids raised by
a single dad after her mom diedwhen she was too.
Bitsi was an eager student whowent on to earn two
undergraduate degrees and an MBA.
After a career in techmarketing and PR, including
(00:26):
writing a syndicated newspapercolumn and being interviewed at
places like CNN and CBS NationalRadio, Bizzie found her true
calling as an author.
She has published twenty threechildren's books along with her
brand new devotional mommy andme micro moments, which is
available now wherever you buybooks.
So welcome to the show, Vitzy.
(00:47):
We are super excited to haveyou here today.
Bitsy Kemper (00:50):
Well, thanks for having me.
Gosh, that intro makes me soundmuch more important than I am.
Beth McMullen (00:54):
You know what?
We often have people after Iread their intro.
They're like, wow.
I'm really awesome.
Look at all these things I did.
There's something about havingit in a list that makes it seem
like, I'm pretty cool.
You are pretty cool.
Bitsy Kemper (01:09):
Right.
Something else saying it, notme.
Right?
Beth McMullen (01:11):
Exactly.
Lisa Schmid (01:12):
You're impressive.
Okay.
So I am just gonna say talkabout my first impressions of
Bitsey Kim.
Like, roll back in time.
It's
Bitsy Kemper (01:20):
been a while.
Lisa Schmid (01:21):
That has been a while.
And so this was years ago.
You were my regional advisorfor a CBWI.
And I had no idea I knewnothing about the kidlet world.
I I don't even remember how Ifound out about a CBWI, but I I
stumbled upon it, and I went toour local conference.
(01:42):
And so I was kinda walking in.
I was nervous.
I'm like, am I gonna fit in?
Like, who are these people andso I sat down to the table and
all of a sudden you burst ontothe scene.
Onto the stage and it was likethis wave of energy and just
complete joy.
And I was like, I rememberthinking right in that moment.
(02:05):
I my people.
And I just fell in love withyou.
And we have slowly, over theyears, become friends.
And I remember thinking, like,one of those times, I'm one of
those people that always freaksout that, oh, I have an author
friend.
And I remember at one point, Iwas like, my god.
Betsy Kemper and I are friendsnow.
Like, it was just such a coolmoment for me.
(02:26):
It was because, you know, you,like, personified cadet, and you
do so much in your larger thanlife, and now you're my friend,
and I love you, So I just youknow, you are that person that I
wish was that every SCBWIconference because then people
would know that they're in theright place.
Bitsy Kemper (02:45):
That's very sweet, Lisa.
Now, I had to tell you, Iremember talking to you at one
of the smaller gatherings at thelibrary, the local library, And
I have this impression a lot,so I apologize in advance for
what I'm gonna say.
Like, people come up andthey'll say, oh, yeah.
So I wanna write a book and Idon't know anything about it, so
(03:06):
that's why I'm here.
And I'll be like, oh, how cute.
Like, you know, sure.
You're just gonna write a bookRight?
Everyone everyone thinksthey're just gonna walk in and
write a book.
So you guys said that and Ithought, that's so sweet.
And it feels like a week later,you're like, oh, I got a
contract.
And I was like, what weren'tyou just talking about how you
wanted to write a book?
And now you've written it andit's going to be published?
(03:28):
Like, I was so bored at thespeed at which you ramped up.
Lisa Schmid (03:33):
Was it the Arden library?
Bitsy Kemper (03:35):
No.
I think it was the EldoradoHills library when had one of
the quarterly meetings, I couldbe wrong.
Because I know Beth, that'swhere I first met you.
Was that one of the libraryones?
And you were you were veryyou're like, oh, yeah.
I have written a couple booksand yeah.
I'm gonna do middle grade, andI'm like, okay.
Great.
And I look you up and I'm like,holy cow.
Lisa Schmid (03:55):
For now,
Beth McMullen (03:56):
I was so lost.
Bitsy Kemper (03:57):
How many books do you have,
Beth McMullen (03:59):
Beth?
Tim.
Bitsy Kemper (04:00):
Ten.
Yeah.
Wow.
Beth McMullen (04:02):
Nothing nothing.
This is a perfect segue intoour first question because you,
as I said, and I hope everybodyheard the aw in my voice during
the intro.
You have over twenty books outwith more on the way.
Which is an insane number.
That's an insane number ofbooks to be published.
And for everybody out there whohas published one book, they
(04:24):
know what it would be like to dothat.
Twenty plus times.
So what is your secret tostaying in the publishing game
so long?
We know publishing is changingconstantly.
And when Lisa wrote thisquestion, she put in this line
which cracked me up.
Translation to the question,how have you maintained your
sanity and positive attitude,which I was like, yeah, I think
(04:48):
that gets right to the heart ofwhat we wanna know.
Bitsy Kemper (04:50):
The secret is to just not give up.
I mean, I'm very persistent.
I have been referred to as abulldog, which I assume is not
my looks, but my tenacity.
My refusing to get rid of thatbone that someone has passed my
way.
Right?
So I I don't like hearing nobecause that just challenge me,
challenges me to do more.
To do better.
(05:11):
So that's kind of mypersonality work.
But at the same time, I thinkone of the reasons I kept going
because you hear know a lot inthis industry.
Right?
You hear, oh, how cute when youtell someone you write
children's books.
It's very humbling.
But every time a rejectioncomes through, it it smarts.
(05:31):
Right?
Because we feel, this is uswhere writers and we wrote
something and this is a part ofme.
So I'm sharing a part of mewith you and you just said you
don't like it.
So therefore, you don't like me.
And that is really really hardto not do.
So I'll tell you, I spent atleast two years where I just
said, I I can't, like, I'llwrite a little bit on my own.
(05:53):
But I'm tapped out.
I just can't hear no anymore.
But I did keep writing and Istill have to work at this But
if you can distance yourselffrom the rejection, not being a
rejection of you, not evennecessarily being a rejection of
your work, but it's a rejectionof not for me right now.
(06:14):
And if you could take thatpersonalness away from it, It's
much easier to have a rejection.
That way you can hear, okay,does it work for her right now?
I'll send it to him.
Uh-huh.
K?
Doesn't it work for him rightnow?
I'll send it to him.
It's just so much easier whenyou look at it that way.
Beth McMullen (06:31):
I think that's really wise.
And that that comes with yourlong view your perspective
because you have been in thisgame a very long time Right.
That it is not a personalcharacter of you thing.
It's the work not fitting intowhat that particular editor
wants, needs, has to have atthat time.
(06:51):
It's really It's I know that ineducation, they talk a lot
about growth mindset.
Mhmm.
And that's what that feels liketo me.
It's not right right now.
It might be right later.
Some distant thing, but it'snot a closely open, can keep
going forward.
I love that.
I'm already, like, I'm puttingthose quotes in the social media
(07:12):
for this episode becauseeverybody needs to hear that
fabulous.
Bitsy Kemper (07:15):
I I think it's like auditioning.
If you're an actor and you'reauditioning for a role, Think of
how many actors, like fabulousactors that have talked about
how many roles they didn't get.
It's not that they can't actIt's not that they're a crappy
actor.
It's just that that role wasn'tfor them.
They just didn't fit that partthat they were specifically
looking for.
And a lot of far work is likethat.
(07:35):
Like, an editor can't tell you,I want a cat I want a story
about cats that involves rainand Massachusetts.
I mean, they could have that intheir head, but they won't know
that that's what they'relooking for until they see it.
So How can I possibly know thatthey're looking for a cat with
(07:56):
the rain in Massachusetts?
I just I can't.
And when they find one, That'swhat they're looking for, and
that's why I like it.
It's not personal.
Lisa Schmid (08:04):
That's one of the best analogies I've ever heard.
And I just saw that SteveMartin was talking about
somebody had said, you know, howdo you handle all the rejection
?
How do you, like, keep movingforward?
What's the secret?
And his answer was keep doingthe work.
Just keep doing work, keepgetting better, and you will
eventually find that yes, thatyou're looking for.
(08:25):
It's just a matter of keepmoving forward, keep doing the
work, keep your head down, anddon't take it personally.
I love that.
Bitsy Kemper (08:32):
You guys both know our author friend, Aaron Dealy.
And she always says, which Iappreciate a lot, is it's not a
no.
It's a not yet.
Or it's a no for now.
So if you can add that yet orfor now to the end of your
rejection, that's so helpful.
Lisa Schmid (08:50):
Now, that's huge.
So talking about some of thethings that you've done, you've
also been a successfulghostwriter, which I know so
many people are reallyinterested in because it can be
a way to supplement your incomeas a writer while you're working
on your own original work thatyou can make some income as a
ghost writer.
But that really takes anexceptional skill and an
(09:12):
understanding of the craft.
And can you talk to ourlisteners about the intricacies
of this profession and how tocover these unique opportunities
because I we just had lunch,what was adjusters about six
months ago, and you shared withme, a couple ghostwriting deals
that you got, and I was blownaway.
I'm like, who is it?
And you're like, yeah.
I can't tell you.
Then I was like, you were likea spy.
(09:34):
And like, oh my god.
She just got so much cooler.
So tell you know, talk topeople about that.
How did you get started?
How does it work?
And how do you work on that?
Kind of craft to be aghostwriter.
Bitsy Kemper (09:47):
Okay.
Where do I start with that?
I well, I'll start, I guess,from the beginning, the first
job that I had was writing forhire, which is very similar to
ghost writing.
And I found those opportunitiesthrough s c b w i's, the book.
Right?
And in case people arelistening, that is the Society
of Children's Bookwriters andIllustrators.
(10:07):
And you would think writerscould come up with a better
acronym, but There we are.
S c b w I.
So they have something fromBembers called The Book.
And it is this amazing resourceof editors and agents, their
addresses, what they like, andthere's also a section on
something called packages.
(10:28):
Okay?
And, Beth Lisa, do you guysknow a pack had you heard of
packagers before you wereWriting.
Lisa Schmid (10:37):
This is the first time I've heard of it, so
enlighten me.
Beth McMullen (10:40):
I had heard of them once I started writing.
I had no idea that existed backwhen I was just a person who
read books and didn't write them.
Bitsy Kemper (10:48):
Right.
What I did is I went throughthe book, through s c b w I,
right for hire or packages.
So I just made note of all ofthem.
And similarly, I did coverletter attached to writing
resume and a writing sample.
If you aren't published, youcan still include a writing
(11:10):
sample.
And it may be one fiction, onenon fiction.
And you can emphasize any otherrelated writing tasks.
Maybe you're a member of s c bw I, for example.
And then you submit them.
So I probably sent out twenty.
I don't know.
Then you sit and wait and hopesomeday they'll get back to you.
(11:33):
Some of them responded, thanks.
We'll put you on our list.
Most of them did not respond atall.
One of my first right for hirefrom a packager was they
contacted me and said, hey, wehave a financial book series, a
chapter book series, aboutinvesting and spending.
Would you like to write it?
And I'm like, oh my gosh, didyou know that I have a major
(11:56):
I've majored Nick and Monics andI have a master's degree.
Oh my god.
This is so perfect.
I would love to do that.
That was like, so perfect forme.
Okay.
I didn't say that, but, youknow, that's how I was feeling.
I was so excited.
And as soon as I hit enter,face palm.
Oh my gosh.
Of course, they know that.
I told them I have aundergraduate degree in
(12:18):
economics and a master's in inbusiness.
Right?
So, of course, they knew that.
That's why they asked me to doit.
So, an important part ofapproaching packages and people
that hire, right for hire, isclarifying your expertise, what
you're good at, and or what youlike.
Like I mentioned, travel.
(12:38):
I've never gotten anyone to askme to write about travel, but I
was kind of hoping to use thatas an excuse to go to Greece or
something.
Oh, no, wait, I take that back.
Again, I have four books.
I'm pointing behind me that noone can see.
I do.
I have four books, they'recalled, it's a country series.
And they had probably twentyand they asked me to write four
(12:58):
of them.
Beth McMullen (12:59):
Can I just say this is something that only
happens to people who havewritten twenty plus books where
they forget about four titlesthat they have written?
This is like my favorite momentso far in this episode where
you're like, yeah.
Oh, no, I did.
I wrote four bucks.
Bitsy Kemper (13:16):
Not one.
Four.
I'm it treats I
Beth McMullen (13:19):
love that so much .
Bitsy Kemper (13:21):
So part of the reason is, you you know, we
talked about how this is me andhow personal our work is.
One of the reasons I think itdidn't come to top of mind is
because it wasn't my idea.
I didn't say I'm gonna writeabout the UK.
And not only that, I didn'tcome up with the idea.
I'm gonna write a book aboutthe UK that has seven chapters
that includes a map thatincludes activities that include
(13:43):
right So they present all ofthat to me.
And it depends on how far alongthey are or what specific needs
they have because they may haveit all written out every
chapter and what you have towrite in that chapter.
You just have to do it.
Or they'll give you a title andsay, run with it.
(14:03):
So I would say as far aswriting for hire in a way it's
less creative because you haveto do what they want you to do.
But, Lisa, you had mentionedghost writing.
Very similarly, what'schallenging is you have to match
their voice.
You have to I mean, I couldwrite this beautiful story about
their life, but it has to be intheir words with their
(14:25):
personality to it.
And I can tell you one of thepeople that I interviewed
particularly have no personalitywhatsoever.
Just zero.
And like, how can you be thisfamous and this public and this
amazing public figure.
What happened?
No personality.
So it could be that it didn'tcome across in any of our phone
(14:48):
interviews.
But it could also be that whenthey're not on camera, they're
just a mellow person like we are.
So In that case, I had tocreate a personality that I
thought the public would accept.
I had to create a personalitythat I thought that person would
say, oh, yeah, I could havedone that.
(15:09):
So it was challenging to dothat because I don't really know
them.
But I got experience as adevelopment editor.
I was working for a while for aa packager as their development
editor.
A development editor comes inafter something is written and
makes sure that it's writtenexactly the way they ask the
(15:33):
person to write it.
And there are a lot of famouspeople that I did that for.
Some of them, one person Iwrote was was barely literate.
And I had to rewrite everything.
And I can guarantee you thatthis person is gonna look at
their book and say, I did that.
Wow.
I can't believe I'm this good.
Because I had to takeeverything in their voice and
(15:56):
rework it to make sense.
So I feel like I honed thatskill as a development editor
because I had to go through thebook and figure out what doesn't
fit how come it doesn't fit?
How can I make it fit?
So that was a good entry intomy ghost writing.
And ghost writing kind of comesafter you have done some right
(16:20):
for hire for a while.
You get your name out there, sothat's how I kept kept going
with the ghost writing.
It's the very first one that Idid.
That also was a series of fourbooks.
And they said, yeah, this isgreat.
It's a short time frame.
I can turn things aroundquickly.
I listen.
I don't miss deadlines.
They like me to keep going.
Lisa Schmid (16:40):
How does it feel like when you know you've
ghostwritten something?
And thank you for clarifyingthe difference between
ghostwriting and writing forhire.
And so how does it feel whenyou see your book, your words
with somebody else's name on it?
They're take I mean, takingcredit for it.
And that that must be a reallyinteresting experience.
Bitsy Kemper (17:01):
It's interesting.
Yes.
I still I'm still proud andexcited when I see it on a shelf
.
And sometimes they will put inthe forward or to the
acknowledgments or whatever,they'll thank someone for their
help.
And so I've been included inthat a couple times I have
strongly encouraged some writersto include my name because I've
done I did so much rewritingfor them, but it is kind of
(17:24):
awkward to to know that I didthat, and I I can't really tell
people that I did it.
A couple Oh.
And look, I I helped with this.
I can't believe that I helpedwith this, but I helped with
this.
Lisa Schmid (17:35):
And I applied you with Champagne when we were
celebrating your book deal.
And you had the audacity not totell me which I thought was
Beth McMullen (17:43):
it was digging through the dirt.
That is very funny.
Well, this just is part of thepackage that people get when
they work with you.
You wear lips or sealed.
Bitsy Kemper (17:52):
Right.
But and that's an importantpart of ghostwriting as well.
If I tell people if you justhave to tell one wrong person,
or tell it at the wrong time.
And if they find out that Itold people that I wrote it,
they will never work with meagain.
Beth McMullen (18:07):
Right.
It sounds like your reputationonce you've gotten that first
job and you've done well and youproved yourself in that sort of
, you know, technical writingdomain, then it's really
reputation.
Right?
And if you're reliable, likeyou said, and you turn stuff in
on time, and you're discreetthen they're gonna keep coming
back because you are the wholepackage.
(18:28):
That was very interesting.
I've always wondered about alot of those things So turning a
little bit toward how generousyou are and what a tremendous
this resource you are to thewriting community.
I think of you as kind of anideal literary citizen as they
say Mhmm.
Because you you do give so muchback to this community.
(18:50):
Of course, your extensive workwith SCBWI.
You were running the wholeshebang in our region when I
joined.
Bunch of years ago.
So, but you have a few thingsthat you do with the thirty one
day author platform challengeand your list of publishers.
Can you tell us a little bitabout those so that our
listeners can benefit from them?
Bitsy Kemper (19:10):
Sure.
So I did create somethingcalled the thirty one day author
plaque form challenge.
Because we're writers.
Right?
Most of us are introverts.
We are not marketers.
Especially marketers ofourselves.
Right?
Again, that how personal ourwork is.
So it's really, really hard formost authors to even want to
(19:33):
have a social media presence,but we need one.
And this is how we're gonnasell books, and we don't write a
book to not sell it.
So it is okay to championyourself.
It is okay.
Others I'm telling all of you,it is totally acceptable for you
to be proud of your work andwant other people to know about
it and maybe buy it.
(19:53):
Okay?
So a social media presence isvery important increasingly
important with editors andagents.
They wanna see that you have afollowing because They know
that's a built in bio based.
Some editors and agents say,they don't care.
I feel like that's gettingincreasingly more rare to find
(20:14):
someone that says that, but thepurpose of the author platform
is just to get your name outthere, like a celebrity.
No one's gonna cast a celebrityin a lead role never heard of
them.
Right.
Lisa Schmid (20:26):
I you know, I agree with that.
I've like, we've asked a couplepeople that question, a couple
of editors, and they're like,yeah, no.
It doesn't matter.
But then I hear from agents andI recently watched like a kind
of a state of the union Mhmm.
An agent that she sent to allher clients talking about the
importance of having a platformbecause editors are really
(20:48):
starting to look at that now.
Especially in the kitlet worldbecause there's, you know, all
this kripal on, you know,different markets not doing as
well as they used to.
And so I do believe it'simportant.
So if, you know, if you hearsomebody say, yeah, now I don't
look.
Well, I think they look.
You know, I think they wannaknow what you're doing to help
promote the books.
What you're doing is a you know, and you don't have to have
(21:09):
your I never post my picture.
It's so rare.
I'm I'm usually just postingother things.
But I think it's important tohave some level of a platform.
Bitsy Kemper (21:17):
So I I definitely agree with you.
And that is such a greatprogram.
Now, so the thirty one dayauthor challenge, it's broken
down into thirty one days,obviously.
And Every day, I offer a bitesized maybe fifteen minute thing
that you can do to chip away.
At that platform.
(21:38):
If you're climbing a mountainand you have to swing your
pickaxe up, to pull yourself up,to get to the next step, and
then slap your pickaxe again topull yourself off.
If you have that image, youknow, you don't just arrive at
the top of a mountain.
You have to take steps.
So these are ways to say, don'tdon't look at the top of the
mountain.
(21:58):
Just do what you can when youcan.
So these are all steps that youcan take.
Like, I'll give you an example.
One of them will be to create apoll.
And that encourages you to beinteractive with people.
It encourages people tointeract with you.
But then also, if you do thathold the next day you have to
(22:19):
report on that poll and say,gosh, I was surprised to know
people don't like milk chocolateas it doesn't have to be
literary at all.
It should have something to dowithin your personality, within
your world.
But it doesn't have to alwaysbe in the literature.
So there's things like thatthat people like, oh, I never
(22:40):
thought about doing a poll.
That's a good idea.
Things like that.
Working on your title, goingback, looking at your bio,
making sure that your bio isrelevant, And I have told people
for so many years that theirphoto has to be recent within
the last ten years at leastbecause one time I'd met someone
at the airport that was goingto the same conference as I was
(23:03):
we were both on faculty, so theysent me his his pictures.
So I could look for him in theairport.
Dude.
That photo was at least twentyyears prior.
I'm like, that that's just notfair.
Like, imagine going to his bookreading and you you're like,
what Who was that?
And why isn't the guy that Icame here to speak talking?
Beth McMullen (23:21):
This is making me laugh because a couple years
ago, I had long hair and I cutit super short.
Like pixie short.
So the first thing I did was goout and get new author photos,
put them all over everythingbecause I looked really
different.
Now my hair is growing back,And I'm like, okay, at what
point do I go back and get newauthor photos?
Because I no longer look likethe old author photos but you're
(23:44):
right when you meet somebodyand the author photo is so
clearly from nineteen eightyseven, jarring.
You feel to see yes.
Right.
And sometimes you're like, okay, they just didn't bother.
And, yes, we all are vain.
I totally understand that.
But I think that you're right.
You do feel a little bitdeceived about what it is you're
going into.
Bitsy Kemper (24:03):
After saying that for so many years, I finally
realized, oh my gosh.
I I love my headshot, but Thatthat was was that a kid to go?
I'm not getting sure.
Lisa Schmid (24:11):
I do your thirty one day challenge because this
is I would I would actually liketo build my platform a little
bit more.
Beth McMullen (24:17):
So how often do you run the thirty one day
challenge?
Because it sounds likesomething most people could
really benefit from?
Do you set dates in advance?
Just so that people can do someforward planning on it.
Bitsy Kemper (24:31):
Well, it's on my web site.
Right now, it's live.
Anyone can go there.
It's bitsy camper dot com slashchallenge.
The first time I did it was inNovember.
Then I did it again in Apriljust publicly saying who wants
to join me.
And the fun part is, you can doit anytime, anywhere.
The reason I picked the thirtyone days is you want to commit
(24:52):
to doing something.
How many times have you said,you know what?
I'm just gonna work on my my myvial a little bit.
Or how many times have you said, you know, I really should
consider a headshot.
So this is the opportunity tobook that headshot to change
that bio, to create interactionwith your followers.
(25:13):
And another fun thing, is Ichallenge everyone every day of
the thirty thirty one daychallenge to follow ten people.
In whatever platform you prefer, follow ten people.
And I think the first time Idid it, I I ended up with eight
hundred new new followers.
Because they follow you back.
(25:34):
Oh my god.
Lisa Schmid (25:34):
I can hardly wait to do this now.
Awesome.
You know one thing I would also, like, just kinda throw in
there that I was just thinkingabout.
Is when you do post something,then people respond and, like,
make comments.
Comment at least at the veryminimum, like the comment.
And I always respond tocomments because nothing makes
me more crazy than when somebodylike asks question or post
(25:57):
something and you like comment,and then they completely ignore
it.
And then, you know, if somebodydoes that a couple times with
me, I just unfollow them.
I just unfollowed somebody theother day because I was like,
why are you even posting this ifyou don't wanna engage with
people?
And so just keep that in mindwhen you're posting something
and people are engaging with you.
That is the goal of postingsomething.
(26:19):
So make sure that you arelooking at it and responding and
making like, thanks for sayingsomething or just acknowledge it
.
Nobody wants to be ignoredbecause if you ignore them, they
will go away.
Beth McMullen (26:31):
I think Lisa unfollowed me.
I am really bad.
But I'm trying to learn.
I'm trying to follow herexample.
She sets a very good examplefor engagement, and I'm trying
to do better and I will dobetter.
And once I jump into thisthirty one day challenge, I'm
gonna be a rock star.
You guys just watch.
Bitsy Kemper (26:48):
Good.
Good.
I like hearing that.
That's great.
Because, you know, you like youlike niggling the person that
you're following.
I mean, there's a person that Ifollowed that I didn't even
know who's an author.
And and I'm like, oh my gosh, Ijust love this person.
She's got the greatest posts.
So when she mentioned she had abook coming up, I'm like, yeah,
I'm gonna buy it.
It's nothing I would everreally read, but because I
(27:08):
enjoyed her interaction so much.
I bought a book that I okay.
I haven't read it, but, youknow, I still support it.
I could.
I could.
The the point is it's beenpurchased.
Beth McMullen (27:18):
Right.
And what a great example ofwhat you're saying that you do
have this platform can beleveraged.
This woman has great contentyou enjoyed it.
She has leveraged you into abuyer, which you could not
that's exactly why you're doingit.
Yes.
You're enjoying it.
The participation.
You're getting something out ofthe community, but She You are
(27:38):
also now a customer, which isamazing.
And if if you I don't think weneed to even say anything more,
that is exactly why you'reshowing up in these social
spaces to get that sort ofconnection.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthe list of publishers?
That I know you also offered tothe writing community,
Bitsy Kemper (27:59):
the list of publishers that I shared or
posted was because I was doingso much work constantly
reinventing the wheel.
Every time I would go back andgo I think that publisher was
open for non aging to writers,are they?
And I'd have to go I'd have tolook up their website again.
I'd have to find out wheretheir submission policy is.
(28:21):
I'd have to take notes in adifferent notebook that I had
the first time I found them andI just started thinking I'm
gonna I'm gonna just keep arolling list of everyone that I
know that is open to not havingan agent because I don't have an
agent.
Never have.
Fun fact.
And the list that I startedworking on was so laborious.
(28:41):
It just took so much time thatI figured I can't just keep this
for me.
I wanna share this.
I want how would this to be forthe greater good?
Because I spend so much time onit.
So if you go to bitsy kemperdot com, slash publishers.
There's a list of over onehundred publishing houses that
are open or have been open inthe past to unsolicited
(29:04):
manuscripts and to unagentedwork.
And I do my best to keep it upto date, I have some great
followers that will email me andsay, these guys changed or
here's a new one.
Or I didn't have a goodexperience with that.
I don't think it's a good ideato recommend them.
(29:24):
And I say I don't recommendanybody.
I just have a list.
Beth McMullen (29:28):
What an amazing resource?
Because I there are I don'tthink there's anywhere else to
find that sort of aggregateddata about these publishing
houses that take unsolicitedmanuscripts, and it's a very
unique corner of the the bookpublishing universe.
And if that's if listeners, ifthat's the direction that you're
(29:49):
going, definitely takeadvantage of this list.
It's gonna save you hours andhours of research and, you know,
that's time that you can putinto the marketing, the editing,
all the other things that gointo working on your book.
So it's amazing that that's outthere.
Lisa and I used it for ourpicture book.
Lisa Schmid (30:09):
For ill fated picture book.
Beth McMullen (30:10):
We are it's not ill fated because we haven't
been rejected everywhere yet.
Bitsy Kemper (30:13):
You have at least eighty opportunities from my
list.
I know for sure.
Lisa Schmid (30:17):
I think we've been rejected twice.
But the rest of it is crickets.
So we are we're still in thegame.
So well, and this is a goodtransition to our last question
based on the ever changinglandscape of the publishing
industry, which is like a rollercoaster ride, as you know, What
(30:39):
advice would you give aspiringwriters?
No pressure.
Bitsy Kemper (30:43):
Yeah.
I think my best advice would beto not give up.
To keep going.
If you need to take a breathand step back, take a breath and
step back.
But you don't lose anything bydoing something you enjoy.
My husband loves playing soccer.
He plays soccer every Monday,Wednesday, and Friday.
Does he think he's going to bedrafted by, you know, the SAC
(31:04):
Republic?
No.
They, of course, not.
But he enjoys playing soccer.
So we enjoy writing.
Right?
So you don't lose anything bywriting something by writing
when you enjoy it.
So keep at it.
Stay in touch with the peoplethat you need to know.
You don't have to keep track ofpeople that were promoted or
(31:28):
transferred somewhere else, butbe in the no, do your homework.
Lisa Schmid (31:32):
This is such good advice.
There is a gal that I met.
She was in my debut group yearsago.
And she, you know, super nicedoll.
And it just seemed like rightafter that.
And I'm not kidding.
She was publishing, like, like,book deal after book deal after
book deal.
I think she's done, like,twenty books in the last, you
(31:53):
know, five years or whatever.
Then I just thought, you know,God, this this one is a meeting.
But what had what had actuallytaken place is she had just kept
writing while she was gettingall the rejections for her debut
book.
So when her debut book came out, she had a whole catalog of
books that her agent juststarted sending out because she
(32:13):
had continued to work eventhough she had received, you
know, a zillion rejectionsgetting to that first yes.
So now it's like she has, like,two books coming out a year
because she had just stayed inthe game and done the work and
knew that eventually if she ifher resolve was strong enough
and bigger than the rejectionsand the plancks, that she would
(32:34):
eventually get her yes, andthat's exactly what happened.
And she's now she's one of themost well known, you know,
authors out there.
I see her everywhere.
And so it's one of those thingsjust keep doing the work
because when that big momenthappens, you're gonna be like,
yeah.
As a matter of fact, I do have,like, twenty books over here
you can take a look at.
So
Bitsy Kemper (32:53):
perfect perfect.
Lisa Schmid (32:54):
Keep writing.
And so speaking of which, let'stalk about your book that you
have coming out And let's talkabout your book launch because I
, of course, will be there.
And you're gonna be at basingthe book in Eldar Hills, which
we love.
So tell us about that when itis and tell us about your new
book and give yourself some loveright now.
Bitsy Kemper (33:14):
Okay.
My next book is called mommyand me microm moments, five
minute devotional activities formoms and kids.
Which is a mouthful, which iswhy I always just call it mommy
and me microm moments.
And it's part prayer book, partactivity book, part journal.
(33:35):
Like, if all three of them gottogether and had a bookbaby,
it's this.
So the format is devotionals asa category has they all have a
specific format.
They're basically all the same.
And mine is sort of like that,but it's different.
And there are devotionaljournals that you write in.
Mine is sort of like that, butdifferent.
(33:56):
Because one of the maindifferences is the mom is doing
it with the child.
You're sitting down and you'rechoosing to take five minutes
every day to be present withyour child.
Even the busiest mom can affordfive minutes.
No matter how crazy life gets,you can catch your breath and be
(34:17):
present with your child, onpurpose for five minutes.
So it's thirty five days, fiveweeks, and every entry is
different.
There might be jokes that youcan tell.
Games you play, like, find mesomething yellow.
One of them is drawing thingslike look out the window and
(34:39):
draw what you see.
If your child is very young,you can draw it for them and and
write it.
And the point of that that Iexplain is, you know, that view
is gonna be different in tendays next season.
In winter.
If you stay in this house forten years, that view is going to
be different.
And how fun would it be to lookback and say, oh my gosh, we
(35:02):
didn't even have a tree there.
Or, well, remember when thereweren't any houses in the fields
behind us or you know, whateverit is, but it also makes you
think about how much your childcan change in that short amount
of time as well.
And wouldn't it be great tohave a keepsake of all of these
(35:22):
moments with your child at thistime?
So you end up with a keepsakethat's pretty cool.
Beth McMullen (35:28):
That sounds really beautiful.
Remind us, I think you saidthis when you started talking
about the book.
When does this come out?
When can people actually get it?
Bitsy Kemper (35:37):
Our launch is May twelfth.
It is at Facebook for anybodywho's local.
It's Town Center, EldoradoHills, California.
It's from twelve to three.
Beth McMullen (35:46):
So, okay, we will put the info.
If you are Northern California,then I will put this info about
the book launch also on thepodcast notes, so you can come
and enjoy that event with Etsyfor the launch of this book, all
very exciting.
So, Betsy, thank you so muchfor being here and sharing your
(36:08):
wisdom and experience with us.
This has been such I think, aninsightful and useful
conversation for our listenersto hear, and we are grateful
that you've taken the time today.
Bitsy Kemper (36:18):
Great.
Thank you.
I've had so much fun with youguys.
Can I hang with you all thetime?
Beth McMullen (36:22):
Totally.
Just you can actually kinda bean an extra co host with us.
We're here every week.
And listeners, please rememberthat you can find out more about
Vitzy on her website, and Iwill put those specific links
into the podcast notes and theblog with the challenge and with
the publisher list that wetalked about, so you can go
right to those.
(36:43):
Be sure to visit the writerstrinkles dot net.
That's our website to followsupport and share about the show
.
And we will see you again nextweek, which is May sixth for a
marketing Monday episode.
Those are always a way to crackopen my brain and see the noise
in there.
So please join us for that.
And until then, happy readingwriting and listening.
Hi friends.
I'm Beth McMullen,
Lisa Schmid (00:02):
and I'm Lisa Schmid ,
Beth McMullen (00:03):
and we're the cohost of writers with wrinkles.
This is season three episodeeighteen, and today we are
excited to welcome Bixie Kemperto the show.
From humble beginnings as theyoungest of five kids raised by
a single dad after her mom diedwhen she was too.
Bitsi was an eager student whowent on to earn two
undergraduate degrees and an MBA.
After a career in techmarketing and PR, including
(00:26):
writing a syndicated newspapercolumn and being interviewed at
places like CNN and CBS NationalRadio, Bizzie found her true
calling as an author.
She has published twenty threechildren's books along with her
brand new devotional mommy andme micro moments, which is
available now wherever you buybooks.
So welcome to the show, Vitzy.
(00:47):
We are super excited to haveyou here today.
Bitsy Kemper (00:50):
Well, thanks for having me.
Gosh, that intro makes me soundmuch more important than I am.
Beth McMullen (00:54):
You know what?
We often have people after Iread their intro.
They're like, wow.
I'm really awesome.
Look at all these things I did.
There's something about havingit in a list that makes it seem
like, I'm pretty cool.
You are pretty cool.
Bitsy Kemper (01:09):
Right.
Something else saying it, notme.
Right?
Beth McMullen (01:11):
Exactly.
Lisa Schmid (01:12):
You're impressive.
Okay.
So I am just gonna say talkabout my first impressions of
Bitsey Kim.
Like, roll back in time.
It's
Bitsy Kemper (01:20):
been a while.
Lisa Schmid (01:21):
That has been a while.
And so this was years ago.
You were my regional advisorfor a CBWI.
And I had no idea I knewnothing about the kidlet world.
I I don't even remember how Ifound out about a CBWI, but I I
stumbled upon it, and I went toour local conference.
(01:42):
And so I was kinda walking in.
I was nervous.
I'm like, am I gonna fit in?
Like, who are these people andso I sat down to the table and
all of a sudden you burst ontothe scene.
Onto the stage and it was likethis wave of energy and just
complete joy.
And I was like, I rememberthinking right in that moment.
(02:05):
I my people.
And I just fell in love withyou.
And we have slowly, over theyears, become friends.
And I remember thinking, like,one of those times, I'm one of
those people that always freaksout that, oh, I have an author
friend.
And I remember at one point, Iwas like, my god.
Betsy Kemper and I are friendsnow.
Like, it was just such a coolmoment for me.
(02:26):
It was because, you know, you,like, personified cadet, and you
do so much in your larger thanlife, and now you're my friend,
and I love you, So I just youknow, you are that person that I
wish was that every SCBWIconference because then people
would know that they're in theright place.
Bitsy Kemper (02:45):
That's very sweet, Lisa.
Now, I had to tell you, Iremember talking to you at one
of the smaller gatherings at thelibrary, the local library, And
I have this impression a lot,so I apologize in advance for
what I'm gonna say.
Like, people come up andthey'll say, oh, yeah.
So I wanna write a book and Idon't know anything about it, so
(03:06):
that's why I'm here.
And I'll be like, oh, how cute.
Like, you know, sure.
You're just gonna write a bookRight?
Everyone everyone thinksthey're just gonna walk in and
write a book.
So you guys said that and Ithought, that's so sweet.
And it feels like a week later,you're like, oh, I got a
contract.
And I was like, what weren'tyou just talking about how you
wanted to write a book?
And now you've written it andit's going to be published?
(03:28):
Like, I was so bored at thespeed at which you ramped up.
Lisa Schmid (03:33):
Was it the Arden library?
Bitsy Kemper (03:35):
No.
I think it was the EldoradoHills library when had one of
the quarterly meetings, I couldbe wrong.
Because I know Beth, that'swhere I first met you.
Was that one of the libraryones?
And you were you were veryyou're like, oh, yeah.
I have written a couple booksand yeah.
I'm gonna do middle grade, andI'm like, okay.
Great.
And I look you up and I'm like,holy cow.
Lisa Schmid (03:55):
For now,
Beth McMullen (03:56):
I was so lost.
Bitsy Kemper (03:57):
How many books do you have,
Beth McMullen (03:59):
Beth?
Tim.
Bitsy Kemper (04:00):
Ten.
Yeah.
Wow.
Beth McMullen (04:02):
Nothing nothing.
This is a perfect segue intoour first question because you,
as I said, and I hope everybodyheard the aw in my voice during
the intro.
You have over twenty books outwith more on the way.
Which is an insane number.
That's an insane number ofbooks to be published.
And for everybody out there whohas published one book, they
(04:24):
know what it would be like to dothat.
Twenty plus times.
So what is your secret tostaying in the publishing game
so long?
We know publishing is changingconstantly.
And when Lisa wrote thisquestion, she put in this line
which cracked me up.
Translation to the question,how have you maintained your
sanity and positive attitude,which I was like, yeah, I think
(04:48):
that gets right to the heart ofwhat we wanna know.
Bitsy Kemper (04:50):
The secret is to just not give up.
I mean, I'm very persistent.
I have been referred to as abulldog, which I assume is not
my looks, but my tenacity.
My refusing to get rid of thatbone that someone has passed my
way.
Right?
So I I don't like hearing nobecause that just challenge me,
challenges me to do more.
To do better.
(05:11):
So that's kind of mypersonality work.
But at the same time, I thinkone of the reasons I kept going
because you hear know a lot inthis industry.
Right?
You hear, oh, how cute when youtell someone you write
children's books.
It's very humbling.
But every time a rejectioncomes through, it it smarts.
(05:31):
Right?
Because we feel, this is uswhere writers and we wrote
something and this is a part ofme.
So I'm sharing a part of mewith you and you just said you
don't like it.
So therefore, you don't like me.
And that is really really hardto not do.
So I'll tell you, I spent atleast two years where I just
said, I I can't, like, I'llwrite a little bit on my own.
(05:53):
But I'm tapped out.
I just can't hear no anymore.
But I did keep writing and Istill have to work at this But
if you can distance yourselffrom the rejection, not being a
rejection of you, not evennecessarily being a rejection of
your work, but it's a rejectionof not for me right now.
(06:14):
And if you could take thatpersonalness away from it, It's
much easier to have a rejection.
That way you can hear, okay,does it work for her right now?
I'll send it to him.
Uh-huh.
K?
Doesn't it work for him rightnow?
I'll send it to him.
It's just so much easier whenyou look at it that way.
Beth McMullen (06:31):
I think that's really wise.
And that that comes with yourlong view your perspective
because you have been in thisgame a very long time Right.
That it is not a personalcharacter of you thing.
It's the work not fitting intowhat that particular editor
wants, needs, has to have atthat time.
(06:51):
It's really It's I know that ineducation, they talk a lot
about growth mindset.
Mhmm.
And that's what that feels liketo me.
It's not right right now.
It might be right later.
Some distant thing, but it'snot a closely open, can keep
going forward.
I love that.
I'm already, like, I'm puttingthose quotes in the social media
(07:12):
for this episode becauseeverybody needs to hear that
fabulous.
Bitsy Kemper (07:15):
I I think it's like auditioning.
If you're an actor and you'reauditioning for a role, Think of
how many actors, like fabulousactors that have talked about
how many roles they didn't get.
It's not that they can't actIt's not that they're a crappy
actor.
It's just that that role wasn'tfor them.
They just didn't fit that partthat they were specifically
looking for.
And a lot of far work is likethat.
(07:35):
Like, an editor can't tell you,I want a cat I want a story
about cats that involves rainand Massachusetts.
I mean, they could have that intheir head, but they won't know
that that's what they'relooking for until they see it.
So How can I possibly know thatthey're looking for a cat with
(07:56):
the rain in Massachusetts?
I just I can't.
And when they find one, That'swhat they're looking for, and
that's why I like it.
It's not personal.
Lisa Schmid (08:04):
That's one of the best analogies I've ever heard.
And I just saw that SteveMartin was talking about
somebody had said, you know, howdo you handle all the rejection
?
How do you, like, keep movingforward?
What's the secret?
And his answer was keep doingthe work.
Just keep doing work, keepgetting better, and you will
eventually find that yes, thatyou're looking for.
(08:25):
It's just a matter of keepmoving forward, keep doing the
work, keep your head down, anddon't take it personally.
I love that.
Bitsy Kemper (08:32):
You guys both know our author friend, Aaron Dealy.
And she always says, which Iappreciate a lot, is it's not a
no.
It's a not yet.
Or it's a no for now.
So if you can add that yet orfor now to the end of your
rejection, that's so helpful.
Lisa Schmid (08:50):
Now, that's huge.
So talking about some of thethings that you've done, you've
also been a successfulghostwriter, which I know so
many people are reallyinterested in because it can be
a way to supplement your incomeas a writer while you're working
on your own original work thatyou can make some income as a
ghost writer.
But that really takes anexceptional skill and an
(09:12):
understanding of the craft.
And can you talk to ourlisteners about the intricacies
of this profession and how tocover these unique opportunities
because I we just had lunch,what was adjusters about six
months ago, and you shared withme, a couple ghostwriting deals
that you got, and I was blownaway.
I'm like, who is it?
And you're like, yeah.
I can't tell you.
Then I was like, you were likea spy.
(09:34):
And like, oh my god.
She just got so much cooler.
So tell you know, talk topeople about that.
How did you get started?
How does it work?
And how do you work on that?
Kind of craft to be aghostwriter.
Bitsy Kemper (09:47):
Okay.
Where do I start with that?
I well, I'll start, I guess,from the beginning, the first
job that I had was writing forhire, which is very similar to
ghost writing.
And I found those opportunitiesthrough s c b w i's, the book.
Right?
And in case people arelistening, that is the Society
of Children's Bookwriters andIllustrators.
(10:07):
And you would think writerscould come up with a better
acronym, but There we are.
S c b w I.
So they have something fromBembers called The Book.
And it is this amazing resourceof editors and agents, their
addresses, what they like, andthere's also a section on
something called packages.
(10:28):
Okay?
And, Beth Lisa, do you guysknow a pack had you heard of
packagers before you wereWriting.
Lisa Schmid (10:37):
This is the first time I've heard of it, so
enlighten me.
Beth McMullen (10:40):
I had heard of them once I started writing.
I had no idea that existed backwhen I was just a person who
read books and didn't write them.
Bitsy Kemper (10:48):
Right.
What I did is I went throughthe book, through s c b w I,
right for hire or packages.
So I just made note of all ofthem.
And similarly, I did coverletter attached to writing
resume and a writing sample.
If you aren't published, youcan still include a writing
(11:10):
sample.
And it may be one fiction, onenon fiction.
And you can emphasize any otherrelated writing tasks.
Maybe you're a member of s c bw I, for example.
And then you submit them.
So I probably sent out twenty.
I don't know.
Then you sit and wait and hopesomeday they'll get back to you.
(11:33):
Some of them responded, thanks.
We'll put you on our list.
Most of them did not respond atall.
One of my first right for hirefrom a packager was they
contacted me and said, hey, wehave a financial book series, a
chapter book series, aboutinvesting and spending.
Would you like to write it?
And I'm like, oh my gosh, didyou know that I have a major
(11:56):
I've majored Nick and Monics andI have a master's degree.
Oh my god.
This is so perfect.
I would love to do that.
That was like, so perfect forme.
Okay.
I didn't say that, but, youknow, that's how I was feeling.
I was so excited.
And as soon as I hit enter,face palm.
Oh my gosh.
Of course, they know that.
I told them I have aundergraduate degree in
(12:18):
economics and a master's in inbusiness.
Right?
So, of course, they knew that.
That's why they asked me to doit.
So, an important part ofapproaching packages and people
that hire, right for hire, isclarifying your expertise, what
you're good at, and or what youlike.
Like I mentioned, travel.
(12:38):
I've never gotten anyone to askme to write about travel, but I
was kind of hoping to use thatas an excuse to go to Greece or
something.
Oh, no, wait, I take that back.
Again, I have four books.
I'm pointing behind me that noone can see.
I do.
I have four books, they'recalled, it's a country series.
And they had probably twentyand they asked me to write four
(12:58):
of them.
Beth McMullen (12:59):
Can I just say this is something that only
happens to people who havewritten twenty plus books where
they forget about four titlesthat they have written?
This is like my favorite momentso far in this episode where
you're like, yeah.
Oh, no, I did.
I wrote four bucks.
Bitsy Kemper (13:16):
Not one.
Four.
I'm it treats I
Beth McMullen (13:19):
love that so much .
Bitsy Kemper (13:21):
So part of the reason is, you you know, we
talked about how this is me andhow personal our work is.
One of the reasons I think itdidn't come to top of mind is
because it wasn't my idea.
I didn't say I'm gonna writeabout the UK.
And not only that, I didn'tcome up with the idea.
I'm gonna write a book aboutthe UK that has seven chapters
that includes a map thatincludes activities that include
(13:43):
right So they present all ofthat to me.
And it depends on how far alongthey are or what specific needs
they have because they may haveit all written out every
chapter and what you have towrite in that chapter.
You just have to do it.
Or they'll give you a title andsay, run with it.
(14:03):
So I would say as far aswriting for hire in a way it's
less creative because you haveto do what they want you to do.
But, Lisa, you had mentionedghost writing.
Very similarly, what'schallenging is you have to match
their voice.
You have to I mean, I couldwrite this beautiful story about
their life, but it has to be intheir words with their
(14:25):
personality to it.
And I can tell you one of thepeople that I interviewed
particularly have no personalitywhatsoever.
Just zero.
And like, how can you be thisfamous and this public and this
amazing public figure.
What happened?
No personality.
So it could be that it didn'tcome across in any of our phone
(14:48):
interviews.
But it could also be that whenthey're not on camera, they're
just a mellow person like we are.
So In that case, I had tocreate a personality that I
thought the public would accept.
I had to create a personalitythat I thought that person would
say, oh, yeah, I could havedone that.
(15:09):
So it was challenging to dothat because I don't really know
them.
But I got experience as adevelopment editor.
I was working for a while for aa packager as their development
editor.
A development editor comes inafter something is written and
makes sure that it's writtenexactly the way they ask the
(15:33):
person to write it.
And there are a lot of famouspeople that I did that for.
Some of them, one person Iwrote was was barely literate.
And I had to rewrite everything.
And I can guarantee you thatthis person is gonna look at
their book and say, I did that.
Wow.
I can't believe I'm this good.
Because I had to takeeverything in their voice and
(15:56):
rework it to make sense.
So I feel like I honed thatskill as a development editor
because I had to go through thebook and figure out what doesn't
fit how come it doesn't fit?
How can I make it fit?
So that was a good entry intomy ghost writing.
And ghost writing kind of comesafter you have done some right
(16:20):
for hire for a while.
You get your name out there, sothat's how I kept kept going
with the ghost writing.
It's the very first one that Idid.
That also was a series of fourbooks.
And they said, yeah, this isgreat.
It's a short time frame.
I can turn things aroundquickly.
I listen.
I don't miss deadlines.
They like me to keep going.
Lisa Schmid (16:40):
How does it feel like when you know you've
ghostwritten something?
And thank you for clarifyingthe difference between
ghostwriting and writing forhire.
And so how does it feel whenyou see your book, your words
with somebody else's name on it?
They're take I mean, takingcredit for it.
And that that must be a reallyinteresting experience.
Bitsy Kemper (17:01):
It's interesting.
Yes.
I still I'm still proud andexcited when I see it on a shelf
.
And sometimes they will put inthe forward or to the
acknowledgments or whatever,they'll thank someone for their
help.
And so I've been included inthat a couple times I have
strongly encouraged some writersto include my name because I've
done I did so much rewritingfor them, but it is kind of
(17:24):
awkward to to know that I didthat, and I I can't really tell
people that I did it.
A couple Oh.
And look, I I helped with this.
I can't believe that I helpedwith this, but I helped with
this.
Lisa Schmid (17:35):
And I applied you with Champagne when we were
celebrating your book deal.
And you had the audacity not totell me which I thought was
Beth McMullen (17:43):
it was digging through the dirt.
That is very funny.
Well, this just is part of thepackage that people get when
they work with you.
You wear lips or sealed.
Bitsy Kemper (17:52):
Right.
But and that's an importantpart of ghostwriting as well.
If I tell people if you justhave to tell one wrong person,
or tell it at the wrong time.
And if they find out that Itold people that I wrote it,
they will never work with meagain.
Beth McMullen (18:07):
Right.
It sounds like your reputationonce you've gotten that first
job and you've done well and youproved yourself in that sort of
, you know, technical writingdomain, then it's really
reputation.
Right?
And if you're reliable, likeyou said, and you turn stuff in
on time, and you're discreetthen they're gonna keep coming
back because you are the wholepackage.
(18:28):
That was very interesting.
I've always wondered about alot of those things So turning a
little bit toward how generousyou are and what a tremendous
this resource you are to thewriting community.
I think of you as kind of anideal literary citizen as they
say Mhmm.
Because you you do give so muchback to this community.
(18:50):
Of course, your extensive workwith SCBWI.
You were running the wholeshebang in our region when I
joined.
Bunch of years ago.
So, but you have a few thingsthat you do with the thirty one
day author platform challengeand your list of publishers.
Can you tell us a little bitabout those so that our
listeners can benefit from them?
Bitsy Kemper (19:10):
Sure.
So I did create somethingcalled the thirty one day author
plaque form challenge.
Because we're writers.
Right?
Most of us are introverts.
We are not marketers.
Especially marketers ofourselves.
Right?
Again, that how personal ourwork is.
So it's really, really hard formost authors to even want to
(19:33):
have a social media presence,but we need one.
And this is how we're gonnasell books, and we don't write a
book to not sell it.
So it is okay to championyourself.
It is okay.
Others I'm telling all of you,it is totally acceptable for you
to be proud of your work andwant other people to know about
it and maybe buy it.
(19:53):
Okay?
So a social media presence isvery important increasingly
important with editors andagents.
They wanna see that you have afollowing because They know
that's a built in bio based.
Some editors and agents say,they don't care.
I feel like that's gettingincreasingly more rare to find
(20:14):
someone that says that, but thepurpose of the author platform
is just to get your name outthere, like a celebrity.
No one's gonna cast a celebrityin a lead role never heard of
them.
Right.
Lisa Schmid (20:26):
I you know, I agree with that.
I've like, we've asked a couplepeople that question, a couple
of editors, and they're like,yeah, no.
It doesn't matter.
But then I hear from agents andI recently watched like a kind
of a state of the union Mhmm.
An agent that she sent to allher clients talking about the
importance of having a platformbecause editors are really
(20:48):
starting to look at that now.
Especially in the kitlet worldbecause there's, you know, all
this kripal on, you know,different markets not doing as
well as they used to.
And so I do believe it'simportant.
So if, you know, if you hearsomebody say, yeah, now I don't
look.
Well, I think they look.
You know, I think they wannaknow what you're doing to help
promote the books.
What you're doing is a you know, and you don't have to have
(21:09):
your I never post my picture.
It's so rare.
I'm I'm usually just postingother things.
But I think it's important tohave some level of a platform.
Bitsy Kemper (21:17):
So I I definitely agree with you.
And that is such a greatprogram.
Now, so the thirty one dayauthor challenge, it's broken
down into thirty one days,obviously.
And Every day, I offer a bitesized maybe fifteen minute thing
that you can do to chip away.
At that platform.
(21:38):
If you're climbing a mountainand you have to swing your
pickaxe up, to pull yourself up,to get to the next step, and
then slap your pickaxe again topull yourself off.
If you have that image, youknow, you don't just arrive at
the top of a mountain.
You have to take steps.
So these are ways to say, don'tdon't look at the top of the
mountain.
(21:58):
Just do what you can when youcan.
So these are all steps that youcan take.
Like, I'll give you an example.
One of them will be to create apoll.
And that encourages you to beinteractive with people.
It encourages people tointeract with you.
But then also, if you do thathold the next day you have to
(22:19):
report on that poll and say,gosh, I was surprised to know
people don't like milk chocolateas it doesn't have to be
literary at all.
It should have something to dowithin your personality, within
your world.
But it doesn't have to alwaysbe in the literature.
So there's things like thatthat people like, oh, I never
(22:40):
thought about doing a poll.
That's a good idea.
Things like that.
Working on your title, goingback, looking at your bio,
making sure that your bio isrelevant, And I have told people
for so many years that theirphoto has to be recent within
the last ten years at leastbecause one time I'd met someone
at the airport that was goingto the same conference as I was
(23:03):
we were both on faculty, so theysent me his his pictures.
So I could look for him in theairport.
Dude.
That photo was at least twentyyears prior.
I'm like, that that's just notfair.
Like, imagine going to his bookreading and you you're like,
what Who was that?
And why isn't the guy that Icame here to speak talking?
Beth McMullen (23:21):
This is making me laugh because a couple years
ago, I had long hair and I cutit super short.
Like pixie short.
So the first thing I did was goout and get new author photos,
put them all over everythingbecause I looked really
different.
Now my hair is growing back,And I'm like, okay, at what
point do I go back and get newauthor photos?
Because I no longer look likethe old author photos but you're
(23:44):
right when you meet somebodyand the author photo is so
clearly from nineteen eightyseven, jarring.
You feel to see yes.
Right.
And sometimes you're like, okay, they just didn't bother.
And, yes, we all are vain.
I totally understand that.
But I think that you're right.
You do feel a little bitdeceived about what it is you're
going into.
Bitsy Kemper (24:03):
After saying that for so many years, I finally
realized, oh my gosh.
I I love my headshot, but Thatthat was was that a kid to go?
I'm not getting sure.
Lisa Schmid (24:11):
I do your thirty one day challenge because this
is I would I would actually liketo build my platform a little
bit more.
Beth McMullen (24:17):
So how often do you run the thirty one day
challenge?
Because it sounds likesomething most people could
really benefit from?
Do you set dates in advance?
Just so that people can do someforward planning on it.
Bitsy Kemper (24:31):
Well, it's on my web site.
Right now, it's live.
Anyone can go there.
It's bitsy camper dot com slashchallenge.
The first time I did it was inNovember.
Then I did it again in Apriljust publicly saying who wants
to join me.
And the fun part is, you can doit anytime, anywhere.
The reason I picked the thirtyone days is you want to commit
(24:52):
to doing something.
How many times have you said,you know what?
I'm just gonna work on my my myvial a little bit.
Or how many times have you said, you know, I really should
consider a headshot.
So this is the opportunity tobook that headshot to change
that bio, to create interactionwith your followers.
(25:13):
And another fun thing, is Ichallenge everyone every day of
the thirty thirty one daychallenge to follow ten people.
In whatever platform you prefer, follow ten people.
And I think the first time Idid it, I I ended up with eight
hundred new new followers.
Because they follow you back.
(25:34):
Oh my god.
Lisa Schmid (25:34):
I can hardly wait to do this now.
Awesome.
You know one thing I would also, like, just kinda throw in
there that I was just thinkingabout.
Is when you do post something,then people respond and, like,
make comments.
Comment at least at the veryminimum, like the comment.
And I always respond tocomments because nothing makes
me more crazy than when somebodylike asks question or post
(25:57):
something and you like comment,and then they completely ignore
it.
And then, you know, if somebodydoes that a couple times with
me, I just unfollow them.
I just unfollowed somebody theother day because I was like,
why are you even posting this ifyou don't wanna engage with
people?
And so just keep that in mindwhen you're posting something
and people are engaging with you.
That is the goal of postingsomething.
(26:19):
So make sure that you arelooking at it and responding and
making like, thanks for sayingsomething or just acknowledge it
.
Nobody wants to be ignoredbecause if you ignore them, they
will go away.
Beth McMullen (26:31):
I think Lisa unfollowed me.
I am really bad.
But I'm trying to learn.
I'm trying to follow herexample.
She sets a very good examplefor engagement, and I'm trying
to do better and I will dobetter.
And once I jump into thisthirty one day challenge, I'm
gonna be a rock star.
You guys just watch.
Bitsy Kemper (26:48):
Good.
Good.
I like hearing that.
That's great.
Because, you know, you like youlike niggling the person that
you're following.
I mean, there's a person that Ifollowed that I didn't even
know who's an author.
And and I'm like, oh my gosh, Ijust love this person.
She's got the greatest posts.
So when she mentioned she had abook coming up, I'm like, yeah,
I'm gonna buy it.
It's nothing I would everreally read, but because I
(27:08):
enjoyed her interaction so much.
I bought a book that I okay.
I haven't read it, but, youknow, I still support it.
I could.
I could.
The the point is it's beenpurchased.
Beth McMullen (27:18):
Right.
And what a great example ofwhat you're saying that you do
have this platform can beleveraged.
This woman has great contentyou enjoyed it.
She has leveraged you into abuyer, which you could not
that's exactly why you're doingit.
Yes.
You're enjoying it.
The participation.
You're getting something out ofthe community, but She You are
(27:38):
also now a customer, which isamazing.
And if if you I don't think weneed to even say anything more,
that is exactly why you'reshowing up in these social
spaces to get that sort ofconnection.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthe list of publishers?
That I know you also offered tothe writing community,
Bitsy Kemper (27:59):
the list of publishers that I shared or
posted was because I was doingso much work constantly
reinventing the wheel.
Every time I would go back andgo I think that publisher was
open for non aging to writers,are they?
And I'd have to go I'd have tolook up their website again.
I'd have to find out wheretheir submission policy is.
(28:21):
I'd have to take notes in adifferent notebook that I had
the first time I found them andI just started thinking I'm
gonna I'm gonna just keep arolling list of everyone that I
know that is open to not havingan agent because I don't have an
agent.
Never have.
Fun fact.
And the list that I startedworking on was so laborious.
(28:41):
It just took so much time thatI figured I can't just keep this
for me.
I wanna share this.
I want how would this to be forthe greater good?
Because I spend so much time onit.
So if you go to bitsy kemperdot com, slash publishers.
There's a list of over onehundred publishing houses that
are open or have been open inthe past to unsolicited
(29:04):
manuscripts and to unagentedwork.
And I do my best to keep it upto date, I have some great
followers that will email me andsay, these guys changed or
here's a new one.
Or I didn't have a goodexperience with that.
I don't think it's a good ideato recommend them.
(29:24):
And I say I don't recommendanybody.
I just have a list.
Beth McMullen (29:28):
What an amazing resource?
Because I there are I don'tthink there's anywhere else to
find that sort of aggregateddata about these publishing
houses that take unsolicitedmanuscripts, and it's a very
unique corner of the the bookpublishing universe.
And if that's if listeners, ifthat's the direction that you're
(29:49):
going, definitely takeadvantage of this list.
It's gonna save you hours andhours of research and, you know,
that's time that you can putinto the marketing, the editing,
all the other things that gointo working on your book.
So it's amazing that that's outthere.
Lisa and I used it for ourpicture book.
Lisa Schmid (30:09):
For ill fated picture book.
Beth McMullen (30:10):
We are it's not ill fated because we haven't
been rejected everywhere yet.
Bitsy Kemper (30:13):
You have at least eighty opportunities from my
list.
I know for sure.
Lisa Schmid (30:17):
I think we've been rejected twice.
But the rest of it is crickets.
So we are we're still in thegame.
So well, and this is a goodtransition to our last question
based on the ever changinglandscape of the publishing
industry, which is like a rollercoaster ride, as you know, What
(30:39):
advice would you give aspiringwriters?
No pressure.
Bitsy Kemper (30:43):
Yeah.
I think my best advice would beto not give up.
To keep going.
If you need to take a breathand step back, take a breath and
step back.
But you don't lose anything bydoing something you enjoy.
My husband loves playing soccer.
He plays soccer every Monday,Wednesday, and Friday.
Does he think he's going to bedrafted by, you know, the SAC
(31:04):
Republic?
No.
They, of course, not.
But he enjoys playing soccer.
So we enjoy writing.
Right?
So you don't lose anything bywriting something by writing
when you enjoy it.
So keep at it.
Stay in touch with the peoplethat you need to know.
You don't have to keep track ofpeople that were promoted or
(31:28):
transferred somewhere else, butbe in the no, do your homework.
Lisa Schmid (31:32):
This is such good advice.
There is a gal that I met.
She was in my debut group yearsago.
And she, you know, super nicedoll.
And it just seemed like rightafter that.
And I'm not kidding.
She was publishing, like, like,book deal after book deal after
book deal.
I think she's done, like,twenty books in the last, you
(31:53):
know, five years or whatever.
Then I just thought, you know,God, this this one is a meeting.
But what had what had actuallytaken place is she had just kept
writing while she was gettingall the rejections for her debut
book.
So when her debut book came out, she had a whole catalog of
books that her agent juststarted sending out because she
(32:13):
had continued to work eventhough she had received, you
know, a zillion rejectionsgetting to that first yes.
So now it's like she has, like,two books coming out a year
because she had just stayed inthe game and done the work and
knew that eventually if she ifher resolve was strong enough
and bigger than the rejectionsand the plancks, that she would
(32:34):
eventually get her yes, andthat's exactly what happened.
And she's now she's one of themost well known, you know,
authors out there.
I see her everywhere.
And so it's one of those thingsjust keep doing the work
because when that big momenthappens, you're gonna be like,
yeah.
As a matter of fact, I do have,like, twenty books over here
you can take a look at.
So
Bitsy Kemper (32:53):
perfect perfect.
Lisa Schmid (32:54):
Keep writing.
And so speaking of which, let'stalk about your book that you
have coming out And let's talkabout your book launch because I
, of course, will be there.
And you're gonna be at basingthe book in Eldar Hills, which
we love.
So tell us about that when itis and tell us about your new
book and give yourself some loveright now.
Bitsy Kemper (33:14):
Okay.
My next book is called mommyand me microm moments, five
minute devotional activities formoms and kids.
Which is a mouthful, which iswhy I always just call it mommy
and me microm moments.
And it's part prayer book, partactivity book, part journal.
(33:35):
Like, if all three of them gottogether and had a bookbaby,
it's this.
So the format is devotionals asa category has they all have a
specific format.
They're basically all the same.
And mine is sort of like that,but it's different.
And there are devotionaljournals that you write in.
Mine is sort of like that, butdifferent.
(33:56):
Because one of the maindifferences is the mom is doing
it with the child.
You're sitting down and you'rechoosing to take five minutes
every day to be present withyour child.
Even the busiest mom can affordfive minutes.
No matter how crazy life gets,you can catch your breath and be
(34:17):
present with your child, onpurpose for five minutes.
So it's thirty five days, fiveweeks, and every entry is
different.
There might be jokes that youcan tell.
Games you play, like, find mesomething yellow.
One of them is drawing thingslike look out the window and
(34:39):
draw what you see.
If your child is very young,you can draw it for them and and
write it.
And the point of that that Iexplain is, you know, that view
is gonna be different in tendays next season.
In winter.
If you stay in this house forten years, that view is going to
be different.
And how fun would it be to lookback and say, oh my gosh, we
(35:02):
didn't even have a tree there.
Or, well, remember when thereweren't any houses in the fields
behind us or you know, whateverit is, but it also makes you
think about how much your childcan change in that short amount
of time as well.
And wouldn't it be great tohave a keepsake of all of these
(35:22):
moments with your child at thistime?
So you end up with a keepsakethat's pretty cool.
Beth McMullen (35:28):
That sounds really beautiful.
Remind us, I think you saidthis when you started talking
about the book.
When does this come out?
When can people actually get it?
Bitsy Kemper (35:37):
Our launch is May twelfth.
It is at Facebook for anybodywho's local.
It's Town Center, EldoradoHills, California.
It's from twelve to three.
Beth McMullen (35:46):
So, okay, we will put the info.
If you are Northern California,then I will put this info about
the book launch also on thepodcast notes, so you can come
and enjoy that event with Etsyfor the launch of this book, all
very exciting.
So, Betsy, thank you so muchfor being here and sharing your
(36:08):
wisdom and experience with us.
This has been such I think, aninsightful and useful
conversation for our listenersto hear, and we are grateful
that you've taken the time today.
Bitsy Kemper (36:18):
Great.
Thank you.
I've had so much fun with youguys.
Can I hang with you all thetime?
Beth McMullen (36:22):
Totally.
Just you can actually kinda bean an extra co host with us.
We're here every week.
And listeners, please rememberthat you can find out more about
Vitzy on her website, and Iwill put those specific links
into the podcast notes and theblog with the challenge and with
the publisher list that wetalked about, so you can go
right to those.
(36:43):
Be sure to visit the writerstrinkles dot net.
That's our website to followsupport and share about the show
.
And we will see you again nextweek, which is May sixth for a
marketing Monday episode.
Those are always a way to crackopen my brain and see the noise
in there.
So please join us for that.
And until then, happy readingwriting and listening.
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