May 25, 2025 • 51 mins
When your yard is the Pawcatuck River what do you grow? Sugar Kelp of course! And our guest today Suzie Flores built Stonington Kelp Company in Stonington, CT - with her husband Jay - in the waters of her yard that lead to Long Island Sound. Turns out that growing in the water helps things grow on land (we’ll tell you ALL about that!) AND provides sustainable and delicious food to our community and to the top chef’s in Connecticut. It’s "Tide to Table" with Farmer Suzie on Part 1 on this week’s episode of Yard to Table!
Things we talk about:
Yellow Farmhouse Education Center
And here's the recipe for Kelp Mac & Cheese! YUM!
Follow Stonington Kelp Company on Instagram at @stoningtonkelpco
Questions? Ideas? Things you need to say? Message us!
Follow Yard to Table on Instagram at @yard_to_table_podcast 🌱🍽️ and see what’s happening with Ellen and Trevor by following @stonebrookhouse. And don't forget to follow, like and leave a review wherever you listen to the show! TY 💙
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Trevor (00:00):
Oh. Well, hello Ellen.
Ellen (00:15):
Well, hello Trevor.
Trevor (00:16):
Yet again, we're back at the table. Back here at the
table.
Ellen (00:21):
It's another episode of yard to table, which is,
Trevor (00:25):
did we plan that the back at the table as a podcast,
language as a line, as an introline, it
Ellen (00:33):
does work. Yeah? I mean, I like those little world
building things, niblets that wecreate, yeah? Yardists,
yardists.
Trevor (00:41):
I do like the yardists.
The yardist is fun.
Ellen (00:43):
Our listeners being yardists. I don't know if you
know that you're a yard you arethe listener.
Trevor (00:47):
Everyone out there, all 11 people of you, you're, you
are yardists. And we're veryhappy that you're here and you
are our people. You Oh,definitely you are our people.
And I think that's one of thecool things that we always say,
is that we find more and morepeople that are our people. Each
time we interview people
Ellen (01:03):
I know. And this is an interview episode which is very
exciting.
Trevor (01:07):
I love, I love a guest.
I mean, I always love, you know,I love a guest.
Ellen (01:10):
I love a guest here. And you know, I love talking with
you. I don't get enough oftalking with you. In my life, I
am, let's,
Trevor (01:17):
where is this going?
Because I'm a little I'mnervous, and I'm not sure that's
the right response about that.
No, don't be nervous. I'm notgonna be nervous. No, that's I'm
not gonna be nervous because wehave an amazing guest today. We
do so I don't have to benervous.
Ellen (01:34):
And today's episode really sort of expands the
definition of a yard
Trevor (01:40):
that's and we did say, we did say that season two would
have more kinds of yards in it,
Ellen (01:48):
because that is what is so fun in doing this podcast, is
the yards that we discover, andamazing people that are doing
things in the yards. And as weknow, our guest today, her yard
is literally water,
Trevor (02:06):
which is which you wouldn't normally consider a
yard to be water, right? Itwould be full of dirt and it
would have grass on it, or otherplants water
Ellen (02:16):
where things are growing, pretty exciting. So let
me, should I introduce ourguests? I'm ready. Okay, I'm
100% ready. I am very excited. Imight be more than 100% ready.
Yeah, it's pretty great. So as Isaid, our, our guest yard is
literally water, the ocean,which is pretty exciting River,
and then the ocean, right,amazing. And it's also a farm, a
(02:39):
seaweed farm, in fact, inStonington, Connecticut. And she
is a former market developmentexecutive, and with her husband,
run one of the largestcommercial seaweed farms in our
state. So cool, which is reallyamazing, and they grow and
harvest food grade sugar kelp,which is used by some of the
most outstanding chefs in ourregion, not just our region, but
(03:01):
across the state, and when notfarming. I'll quote from her
site, our guest engages inoutreach education around the
sustainability of seaweedfarming and works to support the
emerging blue economy in thenortheast, which is incredible,
so important. She's beenfeatured in food and wine on
seasons from the ConnecticutPublic Radio and 60 minutes. Oh,
Trevor (03:21):
that show, yeah, just a little 60 Minutes. I've, I've,
I've mentored,
Ellen (03:26):
yeah? Well, we are so excited to welcome our very
special guest today, SusieFlores from Stonington, kelp
Suzy,
Trevor (03:34):
welcome
Suzie Flores (03:35):
you two. Are so cute. I'm so happy to be here.
Trevor (03:40):
We are thrilled, ultra thrilled, to have you here.
Suzie Flores (03:43):
My oldest new friends
Ellen (03:45):
feel the same. We feel the same. And I think we, you
know, we always talk about atthe beginning of the podcast how
we met and we met in your yard,which is water. Before
Trevor (03:57):
that, we actually met at in another place that we've
talked about often, which is theWestport farmers market. Well,
Ellen (04:03):
that is how we heard about you and I met
Trevor (04:05):
very briefly. I remember we sort of heard how to drive by
introduction from Laurie, thedirector of the farmers market,
one of our favorites, and
Ellen (04:15):
what a former guest on our show from season one. And as
we've talked about with you,Susie, you know, Lori is a
connector of people, right? Imean, a
Unknown (04:24):
human conduit. She is, it's very well said, She's,
she's incredible. And thatfarmers market in particular is
a wonderful opportunity to thatfor me, was a really educational
opportunity to explain to peopleabout my weird Yard Farm on the
water.
Ellen (04:43):
We were so fortunate because we got to go out and see
your farm last week, which wasan incredible day. We've been
trying to make it happen for alittle bit, right? A while,
we're a little dependent onweather and tides and waves and
all that good stuff, but we madeit happen, and I'm busting.
Questions. We recorded some onthe boat, which is really
exciting. We're so happy to haveyou today so we can dig into
Suzie Flores (05:06):
I'll keep my language less salty than it was
even more. That's wonderful.
on the boat.
Trevor (05:09):
Oh, salty language. We have it on. We have it on for
those of her who were not on thetour with us, which is sadly,
literally everybody. But you canbe and more leaders you can be,
and you should be, anybody thatcan do a tour with Susie in
Stonington, this is the thing todo. It was so much fun.
Information in the show notes.
Such a great, great time. Butfor those of our wonderful
(05:33):
listeners that did not hear, howdid you go from being in the
advertising and publishingworld, and immediately move to
the water.
Suzie Flores (05:44):
You know, that's a big, yeah, it's a big, like, you
know, when you're big splashlearning how to ski, and you're
at the top of the mountain, andthen you fall, yeah, and then
you wind up at the bottom.
That's
Ellen (05:53):
me, by the way,
Suzie Flores (05:56):
gracefully, I I wanted to eat seaweed. That was
really, really how it all began.
We were making a lot of lifetransitions. My husband and I
were moving from New York City,tri state area to the
Connecticut, Rhode Island, NewYork tri state area, found an
old Marina, started rehabbingit, and in the process of that,
(06:16):
we were thinking, what otherways can we keep being on the
water? Because that is where weare super happy. And my desire
to eat seaweed led me kind ofdown a rabbit hole to look into
cultivating it in the ocean. Ihad read a little bit about it
when I was in college, so I kindof went back and looked at my
notes, yeah. And then we found anon profit based out of New
(06:42):
Haven called Green Wave, who wasestablishing themselves to do
exactly what we were looking todo. So, you know, we were, we
were aspiring ocean farmers.
They were looking for people whothey could help set up ocean
farms. And a lovely relationshipwas born out of that. And that
was eight, this is our eighthharvest. So that was nine years
(07:05):
ago that this all started. Yeah,it's almost a decade.
Trevor (07:08):
That's a long time.
Yeah, that's a really long time.
That's exciting, yeah, were youalways, were you boat people?
Were, you know,
Suzie Flores (07:16):
I No, not even a little bit. I had my body
license. I mean, what? How didit? How'd you get there? I was,
I was one of those.
Ellen (07:24):
Did you just say? Were you pirates? The affinity for
rum? There it is. Susie. We areold friends.
Suzie Flores (07:35):
I was one of those kids. My dad was the same way.
Grew up like, you know, within amiles distance of water Hudson
River, and really had spentlittle to no time actually on
the water. So when we moved uphere, and it was, you know, my
husband was like, let's get asmall little boat that we can
putz around in, the idea wasjust so foreign and wild to me.
(07:55):
But when he did that, I went andgot my boating license, because
I'm also very cautious, and Iwanted to do it by the book.
And, you know, in buying themarina, we were just kind of
thrown into it. He had a muchstronger comfort level on the
water. He grew up fishing. Hehad his family had, you know, a
center console boat that theywould fish off of, so he knew a
little bit more about what wasgoing on. And he is still a
(08:18):
better Captain than I am, but Ihave come a long way
Ellen (08:21):
having ridden with you, knowing you are a good captain,
so I can only imagine how Jayyour husband, yeah, he does it
blindfolded. Yeah, that'sawesome. Well, and I will tell
our listeners, Susie's very muchnot representing herself well
because she was driving the boataround, harvesting kelp, talking
to us, watching everything andalso identifying the ecosystem
Trevor (08:44):
or taking temperature measurements. Very impressive
performance. So Jay is
Ellen (08:50):
going to blow our minds.
Suzie Flores (08:51):
Yes, it's not a it's definitely not a career
path, though, that was presentedin the list of options, you
know, in high school of what youwant to be when you grow up. And
I do love though, that my nowthird grader will say, when
asked what she wants to be whenshe grows up, she'll say, kelp
farmer. That's awesome. It'sreally cute. That's so much. I
(09:12):
don't know if it's true, butit's really cute to hear
Trevor (09:16):
for now. Well,
Ellen (09:18):
so you're in New York, you're still working, yes in
publishing, yes. You moved toConnecticut, and so this idea,
or got your boating license,you're loving you're loving
seaweed, you're loving kelp. Youstart saying, I want to grow it.
So you obviously made thispartnership with green wave. So
to how, how long did that takebefore you were like, That's it.
(09:40):
I'm out of the city. I'm a fulltime kelp farmer.
Suzie Flores (09:42):
I and I should caution anybody listening here,
seaweed is a part of youreconomic portfolio. It really
you're not gonna find a lot ofpeople who are doing this at the
scale that we're doing it, andare not supplementing their
income in other ways. What wasso exciting about this industry?
Three was that it was so new andthere was so much potential. It
(10:04):
was, I mean, it's, it's still,it's a it's an emerging industry
in this region. It's an emergingindustry in this country. In
spite of the fact that it is abillion dollar industry
worldwide, it was a desire tohave a more well rounded
experience in my life I had, youknow, I mean, you know how it
is, I had kids, and I startedrethinking kind of all of the
(10:27):
choices I've ever made in mylife, as you do, as one does, as
you do. I really wanted to makesure that I was living the kind
of life that I would have wantedmy kids to live. So when we
recognized that there was anopportunity to possibly monetize
and support and uplift and maybeeven shape a new industry that
(10:47):
had a lot of environmentalpositives, rather than, you
know, participating in some sortof industry that just is drawing
on resources and not doing, youknow, good things for the
planet. We we jumped on it. Wefigured it was worth trying to
make it work, because even if wefailed, even if we couldn't find
markets for our crops, weabsorbed a bunch of carbon and
nitrogen out of the water. Like,like during COVID, when that did
(11:11):
literally happen, we couldn'tfind any markets, because
everything closed. You know, itwas really, it was comforting to
know, like, at the very least,we did some good. You know, it
wasn't a complete wash. So thatwas, that was, that was really
great driving part. And like,you've been on the boat, it's
fun, it's relaxing. It's notthe, you know, it's, I'm seeing
eagles and seals on my commuteout to the farm.
Ellen (11:31):
And talk a little bit about that more, because you're
going out when no one else isout there. Because what is the
kelp season like?
Suzie Flores (11:39):
It's designed in the state of Connecticut, and
really, most domestic seaweedseasons are designed so that
they are off season, if youwill. So recreational boaters
aren't out when we're out.
Ellen (11:51):
You're not competing with wave runners and day
trippers, correct? Yeah.
Suzie Flores (11:54):
We're not taking up anybody's special space. But
what we are doing is growing avery sustainable crop that is
actually improving theenvironment for everybody who
lives in that kind of coastalregion. So it's really a win
win, sugar kelp. Specifically,it's the only species of seaweed
you legally can grow forcommercial sale in the state of
(12:15):
Connecticut, and it was selectedbecause it grows so fast and it
grows over winter, so you canout plant in November, yeah,
which is, that's what we callit. When we kind of put the
seaweed farm back in the water,
Ellen (12:27):
we're putting our beds to rest, and you are growing
your beds Absolutely.
Suzie Flores (12:31):
Wow. And the whole farming process, the whole, you
know, the seaweed grows, Ialways say, in spite of me, I
don't, there's no fresh water,there's no fertilizing. I love
it. I it's, it does its ownthing. We're essentially just
watching it grow, you know. Andthat's one of the other
wonderful parts about it. Is, ifthe weather turns and it's
really awful out, the seaweedwill be fine, because I don't
(12:51):
have to rush out there to waterit, or, you know, provide any
sort of nutrition to it.
Trevor (12:55):
I love that idea of Susie running out like a Can I
forgot to water the kelp, andthen she goes, and that's a
great
Ellen (13:04):
I'm just thinking of the release of that when I think of,
like, oh, always forgetting towater, that would be amazing,
always obsessing about the waterlevel in the beds, you know? I
mean, this is like a totallydifferent, obviously, entity,
right? So that's pretty cool.
Suzie Flores (13:17):
It's like the gateway. It's the gateway drug.
Ellen (13:20):
We know a lot about those other arenas. Yes, it
Suzie Flores (13:23):
is in for us, with the site that we have, it's like
the easiest thing for us togrow. It, like I said, it grows
in spite of us. We don't. Wejust, we just essentially make
sure it all is staying in thearea where it's supposed to
stay.
Ellen (13:34):
I think that's a little self depreciating, because I've
seen your setup, yeah. So whatdoes a kelp farm look like? Tell
a little bit about that.
Suzie Flores (13:43):
They can look different. Yeah, there's
different arrays, different waysthat you can set your farm up.
And it all kind of depends onwhere your seaweed is going to
go, how you like to harvest,maybe what state you're located
in. There are these really coolfarms in Long Island that I
absolutely thirst after. I wantone. I want to try this set up
so badly. There are helicalanchors. So that's like a you
(14:04):
screw anchor that you'rescrewing into the ground, and
then imagine it has a eye, kindof a hook at the top of the
helical anchored. So it's abouttwo feet maybe. And then there's
a horizontal line with seaweedseeds suspended off of that
helical anchor that'sunderwater, but it's only about,
like, four feet of water. So youcan actually put waders on and
(14:25):
walk out to your seaweed farm,check the line, harvest the
line, make sure everything looksbeautiful. I want one of those
so bad
Ellen (14:31):
I could see that because Susie's farm is they're these
amazing long lines that are inthat you're hauling up on the
boat and sometimes using thewind, depending on the weight of
everything.
Trevor (14:42):
It's a winch. A winch.
It's a pirate theme. We're backto pirates.
Ellen (14:48):
I love a good pirate theme. Wenching the winch. The
Suzie Flores (14:51):
way that our farm is set up is it's a traditional
rope kind of a rope system, ropemethod farming. It is an anchor
that. Set about 30 feet in 30feet depth of water, there is a
mooring ball attached to thatanchor. So, yeah, that's your
kind of vertical and then yourmarker, yeah. And then about
five feet below that mooringball, when the mooring ball
(15:13):
sitting at the surface, we tie alittle loop de loop, and then
you attach a horizontal linethat gets unfurled between sets
of those mooring balls. And sothe seaweed we do scuba on our
farm just for funsies, notbecause it's required, but the
seaweed grows. It's in 30 feetof water, but it grows about
(15:34):
five to eight feet below thesurface of the water because
it's suspended on those lines.
So when we go out to the farm toharvest or to check the lines,
or to take some sort ofmeasurements. All we have to do
is use the boat hook the gaff topull the line up, and then we
can just have a look, which iswhat we saw. Yeah, just very and
on a calm day, it's reallywonderful. But you do not want
to be out there when the weatheris snotty and the wind is
(15:55):
blowing you all over the placebecause of the fact that the,
what we call it, hooking intothe farm because of the fact
that you have anchor suspendedon the ground. Boats can swamp
props. Can get, you know, linetangled in them if you're not
being careful. So we really dopick our days, which is the
thing I'd love to figure outwith the tours. And I think,
Trevor (16:13):
I mean, I think it was one of the things that surprised
me so much was that we weregetting very specific when we
were emailing back and forthabout dates and times. And I
think one of the emails yousaid, Well, tomorrow morning, at
8am we can go out. And I wasthinking, I need a little more
just to just give me just awhiff more space
Ellen (16:32):
I'm giving you what I can give video, but until you're
there,
Trevor (16:36):
yeah, really understand that it is stationary. Yes, the
farm does not move, correct? Itis not like going out and
crabbing or lobster pot, whereyou can kind of hook it and flip
it and bring it in. It's allthere. And the boat, because of
currents and motion of theocean, it moves. So you have to
(16:59):
do these 11 things together, anduntil I was there experiencing
it, I just I didn't know howmuch the time and tides really
matter.
Suzie Flores (17:09):
I try to make it easier on myself when I pick the
days to take folks out. And wewe've had experiences where
we've had to disappoint people,because we get out and, you
know, the wind says it's goingto be blowing at a with a
certain energy, but you get outthere and it's just, it happens
to be a little bit more in thatmoment, and it's, it's a bummer,
but the last thing you wanted isthe ocean like you, you're not,
you're not gonna win. So no,yeah, and
Ellen (17:31):
again, you're, you're, I mean, be respectful, you're like
you said. You're cautious, likeand you're, you're trying to
make sure your guests are safe.
But I think it's one of thoseexperiences that's worth the
wait, so maybe disappointmenthappens, but persevere, because
it's such a incredibleexperience. And seeing, I know
you're in this that shoulderseason, especially now, right
before the real action. What didyou call the boats popping up on
(17:53):
the water?
Suzie Flores (17:55):
That's my signs of spring, the daffodils popping
up. I love that. It's all theboats are coming back in, and I
love seeing them. I feel alittle safer knowing that
there's more folks out there.
Again. You know not that it'shappened. I'm gonna knock on
your table, the counter side tothat is as more boats come into
the water, they tend to get alittle bit more curious, and
(18:16):
might zip around the farm whileI'm hooked in and wake me a
little too hard. And
Ellen (18:21):
that would not be good.
Not good, not great. No, I couldsee that with I was getting
nervous too, with the lines. I'mlike, where's the engine? And
just for you, I'm like, don'tlose that seaweed. So are you
the only seaweed farm inConnecticut? Are there more? How
many seaweed for how many? Thisis so new to us, and it's so
exciting. How many seaweed farmsare there in Connecticut? In New
England? Are we a big producer?
Suzie Flores (18:44):
So Connecticut is actually the first seaweed farm
in the country. Was put outthere in Connecticut waters. And
it was, I believe, associatedwith UConn. It was Dr Charlie
yarish, who's a marinebiologist, and he is called the
godfather of kelp. He he did alot to move the dial. He's
(19:07):
actually a guy from Brooklyntoo. So he has a great accent.
Ellen (19:09):
That's amazing. Love it.
We do like accents oncharacters.
Suzie Flores (19:13):
He is one my fave.
So that was the first farm. Sothis is actually where the
industry was born. The firstcommercial farm came out of
Maine. And so may and Maine hasa really nice setup because they
had such a strong commercialfishing industry. They have a
history of like that workingwaterfront, and it's not just
tolerated, but celebrated muchmore so than than, I think, in
(19:36):
other states, in southern NewEngland. So in Maine, you'll
have the most farmers on theEast Coast, in Massachusetts,
Rhode Island and Connecticut. Wewe have a handful of us. And
what's really nice about thiscommunity is that everybody
works together. We all know eachother. We drink together. We
play foosball together wheneverwe go to our seaweed
(19:57):
conferences, which actually doexist. Best love. And then
there's a whole contingency offarmers that are out in Alaska,
and believe it or not, they haveall become fast friends. We
actually just hosted somefriends of ours from Kodiak who
farm. They left. They stayed fora week. We did a whole bunch of
different farm tours with EastCoast farmers. That's awesome.
It was great. It was so muchfun. But, you know, they came to
(20:17):
my daughter's chorus concert.
It's, we're a big, happy seaweedfamily.
Ellen (20:23):
It is, I mean, community where you find this is another
theme that we talk about a lot.
It's just when you find thosepeople that are like minded,
that are passionate about thething that you're passionate
about, kelp relates tosustainability and doing great
things for our planet and eatinggood things. I mean, it's just
that energy is so great, and youform incredible bonds with,
yeah, well, I love that. And
Trevor (20:45):
I'm sure it's just like in the publishing industry,
where everybody loves eachother, everyone
Ellen (20:50):
gets all the information, no
Trevor (20:55):
difficulty there, and all nothing about entertainment.
It's just the same. It's just,I'm sure. Anyway, I didn't mean
to interrupt, but anyway, but,
Ellen (21:03):
and you were telling us on the boat, which, I mean, of
course, this makes sense, butthe roots of seaweed farming is
really very deep with ourindigenous people here in
Connecticut. Is that correct?
You were talking a little bitabout that. Tell us more. That
was fascinating to me.
Suzie Flores (21:16):
There is actually a seed producer in Long Island
on the Shinnecock territory, andthey have a hatchery where we
will little baby kelp seedstrings from. And they have this
really cool program called thekind words program, where, in
order to preserve theirlanguage, they bring the
children in from the territory,and they will sing songs in
(21:39):
their language that are kindwords to the baby kelp while
they're growing. Isn't thatamazing?
Ellen (21:48):
That's amazing.
Trevor (21:48):
Like, come on,
Suzie Flores (21:49):
using all of these different so that's why every
Ellen (21:53):
you just hit me on every level, it's great.
Trevor (21:56):
That's it. What else can we say that's better than that?
Suzie Flores (21:59):
They also have a system set up where they wade
into the waters. And it is agroup of ladies that are truly,
you know, and they are, they areboth advocates, farmers
themselves. They are just doingso much. They're doing all of
the things there's, there's areally deep history of using
(22:22):
seaweed in all different sortsof ways, all across our country
and into Canada. There's a richhistory, obviously, in Asia, I
think that's where most peopleassume right away. When I when I
told folks that I was going tobe growing seaweed and selling
it to restaurants, immediatelyeveryone thought, Oh, you're
going to sell it to, you know,sushi places? Yeah, I have
(22:42):
exactly one sushi restaurant onmy list. I want to talk about
that because that's fascinatingtoo. Yeah, it's very
interesting. And that brings youto the whole other side of you
know, the business and theindustry developing. But there
are all sorts of different uses.
There's much more culinaryevidence on the in the Pacific
Northwest for eating seaweed. Aseaweed does something in the
(23:05):
diet with a lot of differentindigenous cultures. In New
England, there was use ofseaweed in clambakes and things
like that. It was really usedas, like a flavoring element.
Trevor (23:18):
Still retains, I'm imagining all the wonderful
Ocean Salt and those thoseminerals that were probably
harder to get on from indigenouspeoples than just exactly
Suzie Flores (23:30):
the thing that makes seaweed so credible for
your diet is because it containsall of those macronutrients from
the ocean that people get reallyexcited about for fish. So if
you eat the seaweed, you couldjust cut the middleman out. I
love that. And I grow sugarkelp. I mentioned it's the only
one that you can domestically.
You can grow in the state ofConnecticut commercially. But
(23:50):
that's not because it's the bestone, or it's just because it
worked out in terms of, it's anover the winter crop. They know
how to it is very it's regulatedlike seafood, so the tissue
samples are tested to make surethat the seaweed, while
absorbing carbon and nitrogen,isn't absorbing anything that
would be bad for you. So thathappens every year to our
harvest. That's a unique law tothe state of Connecticut right
(24:12):
now, or I shouldn't say, lawthat's a unique part of our
permitting process. It's not theonly edible seaweed. So there's
a ton that you can forage for aswell, as long as you are acutely
aware of the quality of water inwhich the seaweed has kind of
grown in,
Ellen (24:26):
it's so relational to obviously land farming, we talk
a lot about soil and soilhealth, and we had a long
journey here on our property. Wewere talking about the little
bit before we started recordingabout making sure that all of
the toxic chemicals were out ofour garden and our lawns. We
like a wild lawn. We forageviolets so we can make my
(24:48):
daughter and I love to make theviolet syrup, but you can't do
that if you're puttingpesticides on your lawn, because
you can't eat those violets. Iguess you could, but should you
probably not. But yeah, sothere's so many correlations
about how we treat. Planet, bothour water and our land, that
makes such a huge impact in ourlives.
Trevor (25:05):
As you said, for Connecticut, you have very
unique things that are part ofthe permitting process. There
are different regulations andthings like that. And you'd
mentioned about the blue economyand how much that is sort of up
and down the East Coast. How'syour farm helping to contribute
to that overall economy, becauseeverybody here in along
Connecticut, New York and RhodeIsland, it's such a big part of
(25:27):
our ethos of being on the water,near the water, and having that
as part of the part of who weare as New Englanders.
Ellen (25:36):
And people might not know what blue economy means,
too. Maybe you can give us alittle background on that?
Suzie Flores (25:41):
Well, I mean, that is not my term, but it is a,
essentially an economy that isbeing built out of
sustainability, specificallywhen you're thinking about
things that are coming from theocean and just sustainable
practices in general. And soit's not just food. It's not,
you know, it could be packagingthat is made with seaweed, or,
(26:01):
you know, having creating thatindustry for the invasive green
crabs, or, you know, all sortslike just, even just focusing on
fish species that are closer toshore and in season, rather than
sending fishermen out totreacherous places in the ocean,
super far away from theirfamilies in order to catch, You
know, something that we're all alittle bit more used to, like a
(26:23):
tuna or something like that. Soit encompasses, really, all of
that. What's really interestingabout the farm location, I think
I pointed it out when we were onthe boat, is that I, like you,
saw how much current is comingand going, right? I'm regulated
by the state of Connecticut. Myone one direction of the tide
comes from Rhode Island, and theother direction of the tide
comes from New York. I am, like,right at that kind of crux of,
(26:47):
like, right where the riparian,or, I don't even know the water
borders would be between NewYork, Connecticut and Rhode
Island, but it's all the samewater. Yeah, because it's water,
it's fluid. So there's that,that kind of, the fact that the
way that my farm is essentiallynourished collectively by the
habits that people on fishersIsland are having, how they
(27:08):
treat their lawns, and thatrunoff that goes into the water
will impact my farm, and whathappens in watch Hill Rhode
Island, on all of those lawns,would impact what happens on my
farm. It's a perfect analogy forhow I think the industry has
started to kind of work. Andmaybe not think so much about
borders, but think of us allcollectively as a region. I kind
of forgot what the originalquestion is. I got very excited
(27:29):
about that.
Ellen (27:30):
No, that was a great answer. What do you see? The
role of your farm being as? Ithink you just really answered
it. You see, it's a cycle. Imean, it's a circle, I guess,
yeah,
Suzie Flores (27:39):
time is flat circle,
Ellen (27:41):
and it keeps going, friend,
Suzie Flores (27:44):
I think that what the farm has taught me is to be
a broader advocate. We don'thave the luxury in this industry
right now, for anybody out therewho's farming to be competitive
with each other. Yet weabsolutely got another water
analogy. We have to all risewith the tide.
Trevor (27:57):
There it is. We do love a pun on this podcast that is
very true.
Suzie Flores (28:01):
There's so many, yeah, so it's it's taught me
that collaboration andcooperation is really the only
way forward for this industry togrow. There is a really strong
sense of togetherness, and Ithink that that's how we'll be
able to continue to own theintegrity of this style of
(28:21):
farming. So we're regulatedreally heavily. Other countries
don't have the same sort ofregulations, to my knowledge,
and so we have an opportunity tobe role models, essentially in
being stewards of the ocean,farming responsibly more small
farms that are independentlyowned, spread out across is
(28:43):
going to have little to noimpact on the ecosystem other
than positive impact, right? Wedon't want to have that 100
Acre, massive farm that'sshading out an entire section of
the ocean. So there's, you know,there's ways that we can kind of
continue to grow this industrydomestically, together in a way
that uplifts everybody at thesame time. And that is what I'm
(29:03):
kind of learning from my farm,that it isn't I can't do it
alone. Yeah, I'm not gonna bethe only one. I'm not trying to
do a like hostile takeover ofthe ocean. I really, really love
seeing this community grow, andI want to actively do more of
that. I just need to figure outa way to do that and also pay
for my kids to go to soccer.
Trevor (29:24):
Yeah, and is there's, are there a larger group that,
like, is a, I'd say, like,lobbying organization, or is
that something that that can becreated as it goes? Yeah,
there's helping. Who's helping?
Talk about it?
Suzie Flores (29:38):
I Well, like you guys. Yeah, there's, there's a
lot of I'm also meeting justsome of the coolest people
organically, just from being atthe farmers market and having
people say, Well, I'm interestedin that. Why don't we see what
we can do to try to support thisindustry? There's not anything
that's formalized, but we'retrying. We do work a lot with
that nonprofit, Green Wave.
They're wonderful. People, theyare focused on primarily
(30:01):
establishing farmers, andthey've been doing a lot of
market development, but thereisn't an industry association
here. There are some governmentfunded organizations. But again,
the priorities aren't exactlywhere I would like to see them
focused, but I think that it'ssomething that can be done. I
just don't know exactly how todo it.
Ellen (30:22):
I feel like we're having a moment where it's gonna
happen. I really do.
Trevor (30:25):
Give Ellen only, like, 20 minutes.
Ellen (30:30):
We're gonna have lots of conversation. But I think one of
the things you you just saidwhich resonates. And again,
we've talked, we talk about thisa lot because it's so important,
local farms of any kind can't,yeah, work unless people support
them. We need to be number oneis to go to our local farms, our
kelp farms, our local growers.
That's so critically important,because of all the amazing
(30:51):
things that you're doing whenyou're thinking about it so
holistically. But impact on theplanet, impact on others, that's
huge. But for our listeners whoare like kelp, I only think of
it in terms of Asian dishes thatI enjoy. How would you suggest
people get their intro to kelp?
You've had some amazingpartnerships with some local
(31:13):
chefs. You have recipes I know,but how do we get someone who is
why kelp? How do I eat that? Howdo I get it from Susie? People
eating the kelp? Yeah,
Suzie Flores (31:26):
well, we are working with this awesome
organization called the yellowfarmhouse, which is a food
education nonprofit that's basedin Stonington. They're also
putting in a kelp processingkitchen through a grant that
they won with the sole purposeof trying to help small farmers
like myself have a commercialkitchen where we can process
seaweed to be used as aningredient for bigger deals,
(31:47):
potentially. So that's reallyawesome. Awesome. They're great.
And they're doing, we're doinganother program with them, which
is starting to introduce kelpinto public schools through
culinary education, and thenalso recipe testing directly
with students in the schooldistrict. And my kids schools
are going to be the first kindof test case of this model, and
(32:10):
I'm really excited to embarrassthem. I love it. It's gonna be
great. So that is, that is oneway we're kind of like hoping to
start the education of thisnative, sustainable and very
endemic, locally grown food tothe kids, starting with the with
the use we also offer. Andagain, it's very seasonal. It's
(32:31):
when the kelp harvest comes in,which is April and May.
Primarily, you'll get a littlein March, if we had a good, you
know, growing winter, and youcan get it a little bit into
June, if the waters stay cold,but in April and May, we will
work with very talented chefs tooffer cooking experiences. But
that can be tough because it's,you know, only 12 people at a
max at a time. They tend to sellout. They're, you know, on only
(32:55):
a couple weekends a year or so.
And then we have many, manyamazing, brave restaurant
partners in the state ofConnecticut, whose chefs loved
the story of the seaweed, whoreally liked the idea of trying
a new ingredient. And so you canfind it at those restaurants.
What I always ask people to do,when they say, like, oh, we want
to we want to become moreinvolved. We want to support
(33:16):
your farm. How do we do it?
Please go to your fish market,or wherever you would buy
seafood, and say, Do you carrylocal kelp? And if they say, No,
be like, Well, why not? BecauseConnecticut has one of the
largest commercial seaweed farmsoutside of Maine. So you we
should be carrying it. Everybodyshould be.
Ellen (33:31):
I love that. Okay, I'm taking and that's an action
note. Or do you why do you nothave local kelp
Trevor (33:36):
And listeners, just because you don't have the
benefit of being in the studiowith us. When Susie said, Why
don't you have kelp, there wasso much wonderful rage in her
eyes. It was I immediatelyresponded, awesome. And Ellen
then had like a laser beamconnection to that. Why aren't
you supporting local fisheries,growers and farms? That was just
(33:59):
a very special moment. I had tocomment on that..
Suzie Flores (34:02):
That was a jersey vein.
Ellen (34:05):
We do. We have the jersey connection. That's a
whole other thing. You can takethe girl out of Jersey. But why
would you
Suzie Flores (34:11):
A lot of the seafood places carry seaweed
salad, but it is imported, it isdyed, it is loaded with
preservatives, and it has sugarin it, so it is a very
replicable menu item. Anybodycan make it at home, and you can
use fresh ingredients, you know,it's like, it's like buying the,
like, the pre made, a pre madesalad, versus, you know, just
(34:32):
chopping the vegetables on yourown
Trevor (34:33):
at home. Yeah, for us, we always marvel at how much
less vegetables we buy, becauseyou have asparagus that you
literally crack off from thegarden, and you eat it, and it's
just, I mean, eat it raw, andit's so sweet, and you can't go
back.
Ellen (34:51):
You can't replicate once you go back.
Trevor (34:53):
So that's the same thing, like, if you have the
what everybody knows, brightgreen seaweed salad. And it's
like, neon in color, and itleaves a lot of color. And I'm
always like, what is that? Howdoes that work? Well, that's the
last time I'm meeting that.
Ellen (35:07):
So who are your big supporters in the chef world?
Where? Where can we come and trysome of your dishes in our local
restaurants?
Suzie Flores (35:13):
We I am, so I didn't do any of this work, but
we have had seven James Beardnominated chefs as all this,
this is like that slips my mind.
And this is not just, this is inPhiladelphia, Washington, DC, in
Connecticut, and it's like it'sjust the coolest thing ever. So
OCO and cottage, located inWestport and in Rye, Ryan has
(35:36):
been one of my longest runningcustomers, Brian. Chef Brian
Yes. Chef Brian Lewis, yep. He'sbeen one of my longest
customers, and his his executivechefs at both restaurants are
just so incredible. That was oneof my first stops today, was
going over and meeting ChefNick. Anytime you go to Oh, go
try the seaweed salad. There yougo. You can see, you can see and
(35:58):
taste the difference I am in thein Stonington. So in my area, we
just, we just have a lot of Cheflove, and there's a lot of
talent by us, just like there isin this area. So Chef David
Standridge and Chef Renee two,Ponce, Chef Adam Young. So these
are restaurants, respectively.
Would be shipwright starter,oyster club slash port of call
(36:20):
sift and mix. Gosh, I'm sure forgetting like, 1000 up there.
Yeah, I can, I can give you somein the show so people can try.
It's wonderful. And they do allsorts of different things with
the seaweed that I never wouldhave. Even cookie recipe up,
yeah. Oh, and like, they haveblown it away times 1000 like,
David will candy the kelp, andthen he like, crumbles it and
(36:43):
uses it and like flam styledesserts. And talk about a
conduit for kids, oh yeah. Likehiding your good stuff in, like
a cookie. It is sugar kelp.
Well, I have, there's a chef wework with out of white gate
farms in East slime, who makes,okay, ready for it. She makes a
sugar kelp macaroni and cheesethat is to die for. Okay, where
(37:03):
was this again? Yeah, white GateFarm, and they'd have, like a
farm stand where they doprepared foods. Oh, wow. She has
a recipe up. It's, it's, it'salso up on our website. So if
somebody wanted to buy the kelpand try it themselves, as I
should, yes, but nothing beatshaving somebody else cook for
you.
Ellen (37:22):
Spoke true words, I will say I told you this before I I
love to cook. It's very hardright now, because we're going
through a renovation, to nothave access to my kitchen,
working on our table, working onour table, our new table. But as
a busy parent who works it'slovely to have that choice taken
away from you sometimes, thereis that's a nice feeling. You
(37:45):
know, on a particularly busyday, like you driving many hours
to get down here to deliver to achef partner coming on a
podcast, getting back before thekids get home from school,
right?
Suzie Flores (37:54):
It's great, yeah, we do.
Trevor (37:57):
And it's, I mean, I think that's so much. The whole
idea here is, let's excitepeople through their stomachs,
through, yeah, through what it'sdesigned to be is to eat and
what, outside of sharing youramazing crop with some I guess,
just okay, James Beard, awardwinning chefs. If you can't find
anybody better, that's fine.
What other products you do? Youhave at Stonington?
Suzie Flores (38:21):
So we did a and we will relaunch everything next
year with this new kitchencoming up. But a vegan for a
cock, a and a song, yeah. Sugarkelp. Incredible. Sugar kelp.
Salt, sea salt. And what's coolabout the kelp sea salt is the
sugar kelp naturally has iodinein it, so you can get the
minerals from the sea salt,which is, you know, one of the
(38:43):
reasons why people enjoy addingsea salt to their dishes, in
addition to the tastiness of it,iodine from the kelp. And you
don't need as much salt when youhave the kelp there, acting as
that sort of umami, savoryenhancement to your foods.
Ellen (38:57):
Trevor got me some seaweed salt, which we liked
very much, but I'd rather have
Trevor (39:02):
the sea bean. Yeah, it was that was more from the sea
bean side. Yeah. Wasn't a localsalt. It was not local. Throw
that away and get the goodstuff.
Suzie Flores (39:13):
One, have you guys tried it in your gardens yet?
Ellen (39:15):
Well, that's the other thing I wanted to ask you about.
Tell us about seaweed ingardens.
Suzie Flores (39:19):
You mentioned before, making sure that there
is enough water in the soil, andthat is one of the very cool
things that seaweed does,because obviously, it's cellular
structure, right? You know, itcan hang on to water a little
bit longer. So having seaweedincorporated into your soil, in
theory, will reduce the amountof reduced time between
waterings for you, incredible,right? You know what I mean?
(39:40):
Yeah, it improves the just thesoil composition, the soil
structure. It has obviously thenutrients that are getting
pulled from the ocean, and thesame nutrients that are good for
our bodies will nourish the soilas well. And it has a growth
hormone naturally in it, so it'ssupposed to be very great for
like, root development.
Development, and so fruiting andfruiting development too. So
(40:01):
there's a lot of positives tohaving seaweed in the soil and
using something that is a like,locally cultivated, you know,
it's grown in clean waters. Youdon't have to worry about, you
know, putting heavy metals orsomething like that into your
soil. It can potentially, thisis what I'm hoping, that having
the seaweed kind of soil mealthat we use. And what's cool
(40:22):
about this also is when we drythe seaweed at the end of the
season, whatever I can't sellfor food, it's a great avenue
for farmers like myself to takeall of that, what would be waste
crop, and use it in another kindof way that can still help
support the farms. You stillhave to pull it all out of the
water. So now that kind of soilamendment stuff will pay for the
farm hands that I had to hire todo that work anyway. So it's
(40:44):
nice, but it's it could be analternative to using chemical
inputs in your soil, which wouldbe great.
Ellen (40:53):
It's huge, I mean, and everyone's we're always looking
for, what is the organic compostthat's going to help your
gardens grow? Now are, I know,we talked a little bit about,
and this kind of goes into thenext question about question
about, what do you see for thefuture of Stonington kelp? Yeah,
and because that's not the solefocus of your business,
obviously, it's the fresh kelpand the farming, but that is
(41:13):
another piece. So, or is thereplaces where you can purchase
your kelp for for gardens? Andthen would you see that as a
bigger part of the business inthe future?
Suzie Flores (41:22):
Yeah, I think that that's going to be a really big
part of the business for ourfarm and for the other smaller
regional farmers, because theprocessing infrastructure is
minimum. That's sort of like ourminimal, like viable product
that we could make. We're usingwaste crop, and it's easy, it's
replicable. And I'm actuallyworking on a grant to kind of
(41:43):
learn more about this. And oncewe have this information that
essentially the recipe that Ifollowed in order to make the
soil amendment is going to beavailable to every other farmer,
anybody else who cares to lookat it. But part of sharing the
knowledge, yeah, absolutely eachother, yeah, absolutely. I want
a test patch. Yeah. I want totry 100% I actually thought that
I put one in my car for youtoday, and I didn't cast when
Trevor (42:08):
you come back if,
Suzie Flores (42:09):
If I didn't have to actually think about how to
get from point A to point B, butI imagined what, what my dream
point B would look like. I wouldlove to see the magic wand. I
would love to have a fullyelectric harvest barge that we
can take larger groups out onfor the tour. So something that
would be a little bit morecomfortable, but allow us to
still do the work that we needto do, and do so quietly with
(42:30):
the electric motors, I would.
And so I would love to have abroader outreach with
ecotourism, because that, Ithink, is a really key way in
both uplifting the local economyin terms of driving tourism. It
pushes people to the restaurantso they can try the kelp. And we
love our restaurants in themystic Stonington area. And then
it also, it creates kelp superfans for life. So I would love
to see that. I would love to seethe soil amendment thing just
(42:53):
really take off in this region,that every single garden center
that sells the vegetable plugs,the fruits, all of it that they
all of them, are carrying localseaweed products, and I would
love to see our seaweed on theback of all of the seafood
trucks that are already drivingup and down. I don't want to add
another truck to the road, but Iwould love to cram boxes of
seaweed on the back of saidtrucks, so that the chefs who
(43:15):
all want to try it have accessto it. So again, your action
call listeners is to go to yourlocal sea seafood market and
say, Do you sell kelp? And is itlocal?
Trevor (43:26):
And if you don't - full of rage - "why not?"
Suzie Flores (43:31):
Asking the question of where it came from
is huge. It's so massivebecause, you know, you never
know. I think a lot of peoplethink, especially at least where
I am in Stonington, like we'rein a fishing port, like a
fishing village,
Ellen (43:42):
it's coming from, right there, correct, right?
Suzie Flores (43:44):
Guess what? It is not
Ellen (43:46):
you are. It is amazing how far your food travels and
and I think we are. It's aneducational process to teach
people how to ask that question,yeah, because I don't think it's
I think to your point, it's nota natural people don't think to
ask. But as we learn more andmore about where our food comes
from, as a farmer's market says,who grows your food, well, where
does your food come from? That'sa really important part.
Trevor (44:08):
And I think, and certainly on the water, because
I've looked there's really onlya very, very small handful of
fishers that are truly onlyfocusing on, what can I get in
this very small area around thesound, from the sound right
outside, and to your point thatnot everybody is comfortable
(44:32):
with the kinds of fish that arecoming out of the right, out of
their local waters,
Suzie Flores (44:36):
yeah. And that's ridiculous. It is. And the the I
mean, the water is a change inlike there's new fisheries that
are being introduced in ourarea. Other fisheries are
leaving the area because of thechanges in the water. So having
the the ability to have yourpalate adapt as well is going to
(44:57):
be really important, whether youlike it or not. Unfortunately.
Unfortunately,
Ellen (45:01):
As you said, that we are it's everyone is responding to
how the world is changing andwhat's available. That's that's
super important. What's
Trevor (45:08):
your favorite kelp recipe?
Ellen (45:10):
I think it might be that. Is it the mac and cheese
literally going on favorite,
Suzie Flores (45:14):
the one that I make the most is probably the
kelp, furry cockey that we have,it's just sesame, salt, sugar
and lots and lots and lots ofseaweed. And I make that the
most because I put it oneverything, french fries,
popcorn, eggs, rice,
Ellen (45:28):
oh my God, I want it on popcorn right now. Ice cream,
it's so good.
Trevor (45:33):
Sprinkle in my mouth.
Suzie Flores (45:33):
Yeah, it's delicious. But the one that I do
like the most would be thatusing the sea would Ooh and like
I do like a good Pokeball, but Ithink it might be the macaroni
and cheese. It's that sounds,it's really great. There's also
a seaweed, like, puff, likechip, kind of that David makes
out a ship, right? Starter. Iknow it's really good. Oh, that
(45:55):
sounds, oh, we gotta get upthere. Yeah,
Trevor (45:56):
I do like a kale chip, you know, because they're so
crunchy. And I think this wouldbe, like, yes, because of the
cellular structure, wouldreally, it's changing.
Suzie Flores (46:04):
I think he, I think he uses, like, like a
tapioca flour a little bit on itto keep it dry, so that when you
it just, it's very good there,actually. I mean, there's a lot
of them. Renee did a Buca Tinionce where the seaweed was in
the pot, like it wasn't seaweednext to a piece of pasta. Like
she made the pasta homemade, andthe seaweed flower was happened?
Ellen (46:21):
That would be, yeah, I can see where that structurally,
how that can happen. That soundsamazing. It was so good. So we
ask on the podcast always,what's going on in your yard? So
knowing your yard is the water,what's going on in your yard
right now?
Trevor (46:35):
The yard, yard
Suzie Flores (46:37):
Spring happens in the water too. So my, you know,
the signs of spring in youryard, your beautiful flowers
that are starting to pop up. Isaw the, you know, all of the
harvest poking out through thedirt. The sites that I see of
spring are obviously more boatson the water, but the daffodils
(46:59):
we have, the shellfish Bloomwill be coming soon, and that is
when you start to see tiny, tinylittle mussels and marine snails
on a lot of the gear that holdsthe farm up. And I'm starting to
see more birds. Actually, theBirding of seaweed farming has a
complete shock. Did not thinkthat I was going to become so
(47:22):
accustomed to all of thesedifferent winter ducks, but
yeah, so now we're seeing thetransition of the birds, and the
signs of spring are coming. Thewater temperature is starting to
slightly creep up. It's time.
It's time. So yeah, we got it.
We probably have about five moreweeks of kelping.
Ellen (47:38):
Oh, wow, yeah, the season. And then what do you
what do you do over the summer,
Suzie Flores (47:42):
After we wrap so after the actual seaweed is
taken out of the ocean, we dothe work to remove the gear from
the farm. Kind of do like aninventory winding down. And then
over the summer, I turn rightaround and start grant writing
to see what I can do for nextseason
Ellen (48:00):
the advocacy begins,
Suzie Flores (48:02):
but that's a lot of what that downtime is. It's,
you know, when I can have amoment of silence, maybe before
the kids get up and startthinking about what we want to
do, how we want to grow, yeah?
Trevor (48:12):
Oh, that's exciting. Do you have a land do you do
growing on on land?
Suzie Flores (48:18):
I grow a ton of flowers, yeah, so I love grown
flowers. And then most offlowers, I just love them. Most
of my herbs and things likethat, I have all in raised beds
or, like, big, giant buckets,because I am still working on my
soil, we can talk about, yeah.
Ellen (48:37):
Well, again, Susie, thank you. And what an
incredible experience. We highlyrecommend taking the kelp tour
in for Stonington kelp, becauseit is really such a mind
expander in so many ways. Plusit's beautiful and fun. And
Susie is a consummate captainand host. So that was a
incredibly fun experience. Andthank you for just the education
(48:58):
level and being a farmer anddoing all that you're
contributing to our world andour environment. Thank you.
We're I so thrilled that we hadthis opportunity to talk to you.
Suzie Flores (49:07):
This was great.
Trevor (49:09):
We had such a phenomenal time before and now, and I know
in the future. Thank you so muchfor being here.
Suzie Flores (49:17):
It was absolutely my pleasure. Thank you so much
for having me.
Trevor (49:21):
Ooh, that's Susie, amazing. Original, a real
original, a friend
Ellen (49:27):
now and a friend for life. If you're okay with that,
Susie,
Trevor (49:30):
I think she's, if you're out there, that's, that's what
Ellen really wants.
Ellen (49:35):
Its just, so she's so impressive.
Trevor (49:36):
No, it's awesome.
Ellen (49:37):
And the work that she and her husband Jay are doing is
just so interesting, and it'sright, and just really what we
all need to be doing in thisworld, caring about the
environment and finding new waysto bring healthy, delicious food
to the table. Good, good, tastystuff. Yeah, like that, mac and
cheese. Yeah. What did you thinkabout that?
Trevor (49:56):
I mean, I did as surprising as she mentioned.
Mentioned it, but I think it'swell documented that I have a
long, long love affair with themac and cheese. So that is on
the list, 100% on the list.
Ellen (50:09):
Well, for everyone who is very excited to try that, the
recipe for that delicious kelpmac and cheese is on their
website, on Stonington kelp, CO,C o.com, and we'll drop that in
the show notes for you. And inorder to make it you actually
have to get kelp, and it is theend of the season. So there are
some places where you can pickup fresh kelp. There is the
(50:31):
Diddy bag in Stoningtonwhitegate farm in East lime,
Flanders fish market in Eastlime and fiddleheads food co op
in New London. And if she'scoming to the Westport farmers
market, we'll drop that up. Dropthat in our stories as well.
Trevor (50:44):
And here locally, there's some restaurants too
that are obviously doing
Ellen (50:47):
Fairfield county - huge supporters. Yes,
Trevor (50:51):
maybe going a little you and me, little date night?
Ellen (50:53):
a date night?
Trevor (50:55):
Yeah, we could do oko or the cottage Kelpie, something.
Ellen (51:00):
I love that
Trevor (51:01):
A little date night.
Ellen (51:02):
I like a date night.
Trevor (51:03):
That's the plan.
Ellen (51:05):
Thanks for being with us and having a seat at our table.
Trevor (51:10):
Yard to Table is a production of Macrocosm
Entertainment. Don't forget torate us and subscribe anywhere
you listen to podcasts and fortips and more information,
follow us on Instagram@stonebrookhouse.
Oh. Well, hello Ellen.
Ellen (00:15):
Well, hello Trevor.
Trevor (00:16):
Yet again, we're back at the table. Back here at the
table.
Ellen (00:21):
It's another episode of yard to table, which is,
Trevor (00:25):
did we plan that the back at the table as a podcast,
language as a line, as an introline, it
Ellen (00:33):
does work. Yeah? I mean, I like those little world
building things, niblets that wecreate, yeah? Yardists,
yardists.
Trevor (00:41):
I do like the yardists.
The yardist is fun.
Ellen (00:43):
Our listeners being yardists. I don't know if you
know that you're a yard you arethe listener.
Trevor (00:47):
Everyone out there, all 11 people of you, you're, you
are yardists. And we're veryhappy that you're here and you
are our people. You Oh,definitely you are our people.
And I think that's one of thecool things that we always say,
is that we find more and morepeople that are our people. Each
time we interview people
Ellen (01:03):
I know. And this is an interview episode which is very
exciting.
Trevor (01:07):
I love, I love a guest.
I mean, I always love, you know,I love a guest.
Ellen (01:10):
I love a guest here. And you know, I love talking with
you. I don't get enough oftalking with you. In my life, I
am, let's,
Trevor (01:17):
where is this going?
Because I'm a little I'mnervous, and I'm not sure that's
the right response about that.
No, don't be nervous. I'm notgonna be nervous. No, that's I'm
not gonna be nervous because wehave an amazing guest today. We
do so I don't have to benervous.
Ellen (01:34):
And today's episode really sort of expands the
definition of a yard
Trevor (01:40):
that's and we did say, we did say that season two would
have more kinds of yards in it,
Ellen (01:48):
because that is what is so fun in doing this podcast, is
the yards that we discover, andamazing people that are doing
things in the yards. And as weknow, our guest today, her yard
is literally water,
Trevor (02:06):
which is which you wouldn't normally consider a
yard to be water, right? Itwould be full of dirt and it
would have grass on it, or otherplants water
Ellen (02:16):
where things are growing, pretty exciting. So let
me, should I introduce ourguests? I'm ready. Okay, I'm
100% ready. I am very excited. Imight be more than 100% ready.
Yeah, it's pretty great. So as Isaid, our, our guest yard is
literally water, the ocean,which is pretty exciting River,
and then the ocean, right,amazing. And it's also a farm, a
(02:39):
seaweed farm, in fact, inStonington, Connecticut. And she
is a former market developmentexecutive, and with her husband,
run one of the largestcommercial seaweed farms in our
state. So cool, which is reallyamazing, and they grow and
harvest food grade sugar kelp,which is used by some of the
most outstanding chefs in ourregion, not just our region, but
(03:01):
across the state, and when notfarming. I'll quote from her
site, our guest engages inoutreach education around the
sustainability of seaweedfarming and works to support the
emerging blue economy in thenortheast, which is incredible,
so important. She's beenfeatured in food and wine on
seasons from the ConnecticutPublic Radio and 60 minutes. Oh,
Trevor (03:21):
that show, yeah, just a little 60 Minutes. I've, I've,
I've mentored,
Ellen (03:26):
yeah? Well, we are so excited to welcome our very
special guest today, SusieFlores from Stonington, kelp
Suzy,
Trevor (03:34):
welcome
Suzie Flores (03:35):
you two. Are so cute. I'm so happy to be here.
Trevor (03:40):
We are thrilled, ultra thrilled, to have you here.
Suzie Flores (03:43):
My oldest new friends
Ellen (03:45):
feel the same. We feel the same. And I think we, you
know, we always talk about atthe beginning of the podcast how
we met and we met in your yard,which is water. Before
Trevor (03:57):
that, we actually met at in another place that we've
talked about often, which is theWestport farmers market. Well,
Ellen (04:03):
that is how we heard about you and I met
Trevor (04:05):
very briefly. I remember we sort of heard how to drive by
introduction from Laurie, thedirector of the farmers market,
one of our favorites, and
Ellen (04:15):
what a former guest on our show from season one. And as
we've talked about with you,Susie, you know, Lori is a
connector of people, right? Imean, a
Unknown (04:24):
human conduit. She is, it's very well said, She's,
she's incredible. And thatfarmers market in particular is
a wonderful opportunity to thatfor me, was a really educational
opportunity to explain to peopleabout my weird Yard Farm on the
water.
Ellen (04:43):
We were so fortunate because we got to go out and see
your farm last week, which wasan incredible day. We've been
trying to make it happen for alittle bit, right? A while,
we're a little dependent onweather and tides and waves and
all that good stuff, but we madeit happen, and I'm busting.
Questions. We recorded some onthe boat, which is really
exciting. We're so happy to haveyou today so we can dig into
Suzie Flores (05:06):
I'll keep my language less salty than it was
even more. That's wonderful.
on the boat.
Trevor (05:09):
Oh, salty language. We have it on. We have it on for
those of her who were not on thetour with us, which is sadly,
literally everybody. But you canbe and more leaders you can be,
and you should be, anybody thatcan do a tour with Susie in
Stonington, this is the thing todo. It was so much fun.
Information in the show notes.
Such a great, great time. Butfor those of our wonderful
(05:33):
listeners that did not hear, howdid you go from being in the
advertising and publishingworld, and immediately move to
the water.
Suzie Flores (05:44):
You know, that's a big, yeah, it's a big, like, you
know, when you're big splashlearning how to ski, and you're
at the top of the mountain, andthen you fall, yeah, and then
you wind up at the bottom.
That's
Ellen (05:53):
me, by the way,
Suzie Flores (05:56):
gracefully, I I wanted to eat seaweed. That was
really, really how it all began.
We were making a lot of lifetransitions. My husband and I
were moving from New York City,tri state area to the
Connecticut, Rhode Island, NewYork tri state area, found an
old Marina, started rehabbingit, and in the process of that,
(06:16):
we were thinking, what otherways can we keep being on the
water? Because that is where weare super happy. And my desire
to eat seaweed led me kind ofdown a rabbit hole to look into
cultivating it in the ocean. Ihad read a little bit about it
when I was in college, so I kindof went back and looked at my
notes, yeah. And then we found anon profit based out of New
(06:42):
Haven called Green Wave, who wasestablishing themselves to do
exactly what we were looking todo. So, you know, we were, we
were aspiring ocean farmers.
They were looking for people whothey could help set up ocean
farms. And a lovely relationshipwas born out of that. And that
was eight, this is our eighthharvest. So that was nine years
(07:05):
ago that this all started. Yeah,it's almost a decade.
Trevor (07:08):
That's a long time.
Yeah, that's a really long time.
That's exciting, yeah, were youalways, were you boat people?
Were, you know,
Suzie Flores (07:16):
I No, not even a little bit. I had my body
license. I mean, what? How didit? How'd you get there? I was,
I was one of those.
Ellen (07:24):
Did you just say? Were you pirates? The affinity for
rum? There it is. Susie. We areold friends.
Suzie Flores (07:35):
I was one of those kids. My dad was the same way.
Grew up like, you know, within amiles distance of water Hudson
River, and really had spentlittle to no time actually on
the water. So when we moved uphere, and it was, you know, my
husband was like, let's get asmall little boat that we can
putz around in, the idea wasjust so foreign and wild to me.
(07:55):
But when he did that, I went andgot my boating license, because
I'm also very cautious, and Iwanted to do it by the book.
And, you know, in buying themarina, we were just kind of
thrown into it. He had a muchstronger comfort level on the
water. He grew up fishing. Hehad his family had, you know, a
center console boat that theywould fish off of, so he knew a
little bit more about what wasgoing on. And he is still a
(08:18):
better Captain than I am, but Ihave come a long way
Ellen (08:21):
having ridden with you, knowing you are a good captain,
so I can only imagine how Jayyour husband, yeah, he does it
blindfolded. Yeah, that'sawesome. Well, and I will tell
our listeners, Susie's very muchnot representing herself well
because she was driving the boataround, harvesting kelp, talking
to us, watching everything andalso identifying the ecosystem
Trevor (08:44):
or taking temperature measurements. Very impressive
performance. So Jay is
Ellen (08:50):
going to blow our minds.
Suzie Flores (08:51):
Yes, it's not a it's definitely not a career
path, though, that was presentedin the list of options, you
know, in high school of what youwant to be when you grow up. And
I do love though, that my nowthird grader will say, when
asked what she wants to be whenshe grows up, she'll say, kelp
farmer. That's awesome. It'sreally cute. That's so much. I
(09:12):
don't know if it's true, butit's really cute to hear
Trevor (09:16):
for now. Well,
Ellen (09:18):
so you're in New York, you're still working, yes in
publishing, yes. You moved toConnecticut, and so this idea,
or got your boating license,you're loving you're loving
seaweed, you're loving kelp. Youstart saying, I want to grow it.
So you obviously made thispartnership with green wave. So
to how, how long did that takebefore you were like, That's it.
(09:40):
I'm out of the city. I'm a fulltime kelp farmer.
Suzie Flores (09:42):
I and I should caution anybody listening here,
seaweed is a part of youreconomic portfolio. It really
you're not gonna find a lot ofpeople who are doing this at the
scale that we're doing it, andare not supplementing their
income in other ways. What wasso exciting about this industry?
Three was that it was so new andthere was so much potential. It
(10:04):
was, I mean, it's, it's still,it's a it's an emerging industry
in this region. It's an emergingindustry in this country. In
spite of the fact that it is abillion dollar industry
worldwide, it was a desire tohave a more well rounded
experience in my life I had, youknow, I mean, you know how it
is, I had kids, and I startedrethinking kind of all of the
(10:27):
choices I've ever made in mylife, as you do, as one does, as
you do. I really wanted to makesure that I was living the kind
of life that I would have wantedmy kids to live. So when we
recognized that there was anopportunity to possibly monetize
and support and uplift and maybeeven shape a new industry that
(10:47):
had a lot of environmentalpositives, rather than, you
know, participating in some sortof industry that just is drawing
on resources and not doing, youknow, good things for the
planet. We we jumped on it. Wefigured it was worth trying to
make it work, because even if wefailed, even if we couldn't find
markets for our crops, weabsorbed a bunch of carbon and
nitrogen out of the water. Like,like during COVID, when that did
(11:11):
literally happen, we couldn'tfind any markets, because
everything closed. You know, itwas really, it was comforting to
know, like, at the very least,we did some good. You know, it
wasn't a complete wash. So thatwas, that was, that was really
great driving part. And like,you've been on the boat, it's
fun, it's relaxing. It's notthe, you know, it's, I'm seeing
eagles and seals on my commuteout to the farm.
Ellen (11:31):
And talk a little bit about that more, because you're
going out when no one else isout there. Because what is the
kelp season like?
Suzie Flores (11:39):
It's designed in the state of Connecticut, and
really, most domestic seaweedseasons are designed so that
they are off season, if youwill. So recreational boaters
aren't out when we're out.
Ellen (11:51):
You're not competing with wave runners and day
trippers, correct? Yeah.
Suzie Flores (11:54):
We're not taking up anybody's special space. But
what we are doing is growing avery sustainable crop that is
actually improving theenvironment for everybody who
lives in that kind of coastalregion. So it's really a win
win, sugar kelp. Specifically,it's the only species of seaweed
you legally can grow forcommercial sale in the state of
(12:15):
Connecticut, and it was selectedbecause it grows so fast and it
grows over winter, so you canout plant in November, yeah,
which is, that's what we callit. When we kind of put the
seaweed farm back in the water,
Ellen (12:27):
we're putting our beds to rest, and you are growing
your beds Absolutely.
Suzie Flores (12:31):
Wow. And the whole farming process, the whole, you
know, the seaweed grows, Ialways say, in spite of me, I
don't, there's no fresh water,there's no fertilizing. I love
it. I it's, it does its ownthing. We're essentially just
watching it grow, you know. Andthat's one of the other
wonderful parts about it. Is, ifthe weather turns and it's
really awful out, the seaweedwill be fine, because I don't
(12:51):
have to rush out there to waterit, or, you know, provide any
sort of nutrition to it.
Trevor (12:55):
I love that idea of Susie running out like a Can I
forgot to water the kelp, andthen she goes, and that's a
great
Ellen (13:04):
I'm just thinking of the release of that when I think of,
like, oh, always forgetting towater, that would be amazing,
always obsessing about the waterlevel in the beds, you know? I
mean, this is like a totallydifferent, obviously, entity,
right? So that's pretty cool.
Suzie Flores (13:17):
It's like the gateway. It's the gateway drug.
Ellen (13:20):
We know a lot about those other arenas. Yes, it
Suzie Flores (13:23):
is in for us, with the site that we have, it's like
the easiest thing for us togrow. It, like I said, it grows
in spite of us. We don't. Wejust, we just essentially make
sure it all is staying in thearea where it's supposed to
stay.
Ellen (13:34):
I think that's a little self depreciating, because I've
seen your setup, yeah. So whatdoes a kelp farm look like? Tell
a little bit about that.
Suzie Flores (13:43):
They can look different. Yeah, there's
different arrays, different waysthat you can set your farm up.
And it all kind of depends onwhere your seaweed is going to
go, how you like to harvest,maybe what state you're located
in. There are these really coolfarms in Long Island that I
absolutely thirst after. I wantone. I want to try this set up
so badly. There are helicalanchors. So that's like a you
(14:04):
screw anchor that you'rescrewing into the ground, and
then imagine it has a eye, kindof a hook at the top of the
helical anchored. So it's abouttwo feet maybe. And then there's
a horizontal line with seaweedseeds suspended off of that
helical anchor that'sunderwater, but it's only about,
like, four feet of water. So youcan actually put waders on and
(14:25):
walk out to your seaweed farm,check the line, harvest the
line, make sure everything looksbeautiful. I want one of those
so bad
Ellen (14:31):
I could see that because Susie's farm is they're these
amazing long lines that are inthat you're hauling up on the
boat and sometimes using thewind, depending on the weight of
everything.
Trevor (14:42):
It's a winch. A winch.
It's a pirate theme. We're backto pirates.
Ellen (14:48):
I love a good pirate theme. Wenching the winch. The
Suzie Flores (14:51):
way that our farm is set up is it's a traditional
rope kind of a rope system, ropemethod farming. It is an anchor
that. Set about 30 feet in 30feet depth of water, there is a
mooring ball attached to thatanchor. So, yeah, that's your
kind of vertical and then yourmarker, yeah. And then about
five feet below that mooringball, when the mooring ball
(15:13):
sitting at the surface, we tie alittle loop de loop, and then
you attach a horizontal linethat gets unfurled between sets
of those mooring balls. And sothe seaweed we do scuba on our
farm just for funsies, notbecause it's required, but the
seaweed grows. It's in 30 feetof water, but it grows about
(15:34):
five to eight feet below thesurface of the water because
it's suspended on those lines.
So when we go out to the farm toharvest or to check the lines,
or to take some sort ofmeasurements. All we have to do
is use the boat hook the gaff topull the line up, and then we
can just have a look, which iswhat we saw. Yeah, just very and
on a calm day, it's reallywonderful. But you do not want
to be out there when the weatheris snotty and the wind is
(15:55):
blowing you all over the placebecause of the fact that the,
what we call it, hooking intothe farm because of the fact
that you have anchor suspendedon the ground. Boats can swamp
props. Can get, you know, linetangled in them if you're not
being careful. So we really dopick our days, which is the
thing I'd love to figure outwith the tours. And I think,
Trevor (16:13):
I mean, I think it was one of the things that surprised
me so much was that we weregetting very specific when we
were emailing back and forthabout dates and times. And I
think one of the emails yousaid, Well, tomorrow morning, at
8am we can go out. And I wasthinking, I need a little more
just to just give me just awhiff more space
Ellen (16:32):
I'm giving you what I can give video, but until you're
there,
Trevor (16:36):
yeah, really understand that it is stationary. Yes, the
farm does not move, correct? Itis not like going out and
crabbing or lobster pot, whereyou can kind of hook it and flip
it and bring it in. It's allthere. And the boat, because of
currents and motion of theocean, it moves. So you have to
(16:59):
do these 11 things together, anduntil I was there experiencing
it, I just I didn't know howmuch the time and tides really
matter.
Suzie Flores (17:09):
I try to make it easier on myself when I pick the
days to take folks out. And wewe've had experiences where
we've had to disappoint people,because we get out and, you
know, the wind says it's goingto be blowing at a with a
certain energy, but you get outthere and it's just, it happens
to be a little bit more in thatmoment, and it's, it's a bummer,
but the last thing you wanted isthe ocean like you, you're not,
you're not gonna win. So no,yeah, and
Ellen (17:31):
again, you're, you're, I mean, be respectful, you're like
you said. You're cautious, likeand you're, you're trying to
make sure your guests are safe.
But I think it's one of thoseexperiences that's worth the
wait, so maybe disappointmenthappens, but persevere, because
it's such a incredibleexperience. And seeing, I know
you're in this that shoulderseason, especially now, right
before the real action. What didyou call the boats popping up on
(17:53):
the water?
Suzie Flores (17:55):
That's my signs of spring, the daffodils popping
up. I love that. It's all theboats are coming back in, and I
love seeing them. I feel alittle safer knowing that
there's more folks out there.
Again. You know not that it'shappened. I'm gonna knock on
your table, the counter side tothat is as more boats come into
the water, they tend to get alittle bit more curious, and
(18:16):
might zip around the farm whileI'm hooked in and wake me a
little too hard. And
Ellen (18:21):
that would not be good.
Not good, not great. No, I couldsee that with I was getting
nervous too, with the lines. I'mlike, where's the engine? And
just for you, I'm like, don'tlose that seaweed. So are you
the only seaweed farm inConnecticut? Are there more? How
many seaweed for how many? Thisis so new to us, and it's so
exciting. How many seaweed farmsare there in Connecticut? In New
England? Are we a big producer?
Suzie Flores (18:44):
So Connecticut is actually the first seaweed farm
in the country. Was put outthere in Connecticut waters. And
it was, I believe, associatedwith UConn. It was Dr Charlie
yarish, who's a marinebiologist, and he is called the
godfather of kelp. He he did alot to move the dial. He's
(19:07):
actually a guy from Brooklyntoo. So he has a great accent.
Ellen (19:09):
That's amazing. Love it.
We do like accents oncharacters.
Suzie Flores (19:13):
He is one my fave.
So that was the first farm. Sothis is actually where the
industry was born. The firstcommercial farm came out of
Maine. And so may and Maine hasa really nice setup because they
had such a strong commercialfishing industry. They have a
history of like that workingwaterfront, and it's not just
tolerated, but celebrated muchmore so than than, I think, in
(19:36):
other states, in southern NewEngland. So in Maine, you'll
have the most farmers on theEast Coast, in Massachusetts,
Rhode Island and Connecticut. Wewe have a handful of us. And
what's really nice about thiscommunity is that everybody
works together. We all know eachother. We drink together. We
play foosball together wheneverwe go to our seaweed
(19:57):
conferences, which actually doexist. Best love. And then
there's a whole contingency offarmers that are out in Alaska,
and believe it or not, they haveall become fast friends. We
actually just hosted somefriends of ours from Kodiak who
farm. They left. They stayed fora week. We did a whole bunch of
different farm tours with EastCoast farmers. That's awesome.
It was great. It was so muchfun. But, you know, they came to
(20:17):
my daughter's chorus concert.
It's, we're a big, happy seaweedfamily.
Ellen (20:23):
It is, I mean, community where you find this is another
theme that we talk about a lot.
It's just when you find thosepeople that are like minded,
that are passionate about thething that you're passionate
about, kelp relates tosustainability and doing great
things for our planet and eatinggood things. I mean, it's just
that energy is so great, and youform incredible bonds with,
yeah, well, I love that. And
Trevor (20:45):
I'm sure it's just like in the publishing industry,
where everybody loves eachother, everyone
Ellen (20:50):
gets all the information, no
Trevor (20:55):
difficulty there, and all nothing about entertainment.
It's just the same. It's just,I'm sure. Anyway, I didn't mean
to interrupt, but anyway, but,
Ellen (21:03):
and you were telling us on the boat, which, I mean, of
course, this makes sense, butthe roots of seaweed farming is
really very deep with ourindigenous people here in
Connecticut. Is that correct?
You were talking a little bitabout that. Tell us more. That
was fascinating to me.
Suzie Flores (21:16):
There is actually a seed producer in Long Island
on the Shinnecock territory, andthey have a hatchery where we
will little baby kelp seedstrings from. And they have this
really cool program called thekind words program, where, in
order to preserve theirlanguage, they bring the
children in from the territory,and they will sing songs in
(21:39):
their language that are kindwords to the baby kelp while
they're growing. Isn't thatamazing?
Ellen (21:48):
That's amazing.
Trevor (21:48):
Like, come on,
Suzie Flores (21:49):
using all of these different so that's why every
Ellen (21:53):
you just hit me on every level, it's great.
Trevor (21:56):
That's it. What else can we say that's better than that?
Suzie Flores (21:59):
They also have a system set up where they wade
into the waters. And it is agroup of ladies that are truly,
you know, and they are, they areboth advocates, farmers
themselves. They are just doingso much. They're doing all of
the things there's, there's areally deep history of using
(22:22):
seaweed in all different sortsof ways, all across our country
and into Canada. There's a richhistory, obviously, in Asia, I
think that's where most peopleassume right away. When I when I
told folks that I was going tobe growing seaweed and selling
it to restaurants, immediatelyeveryone thought, Oh, you're
going to sell it to, you know,sushi places? Yeah, I have
(22:42):
exactly one sushi restaurant onmy list. I want to talk about
that because that's fascinatingtoo. Yeah, it's very
interesting. And that brings youto the whole other side of you
know, the business and theindustry developing. But there
are all sorts of different uses.
There's much more culinaryevidence on the in the Pacific
Northwest for eating seaweed. Aseaweed does something in the
(23:05):
diet with a lot of differentindigenous cultures. In New
England, there was use ofseaweed in clambakes and things
like that. It was really usedas, like a flavoring element.
Trevor (23:18):
Still retains, I'm imagining all the wonderful
Ocean Salt and those thoseminerals that were probably
harder to get on from indigenouspeoples than just exactly
Suzie Flores (23:30):
the thing that makes seaweed so credible for
your diet is because it containsall of those macronutrients from
the ocean that people get reallyexcited about for fish. So if
you eat the seaweed, you couldjust cut the middleman out. I
love that. And I grow sugarkelp. I mentioned it's the only
one that you can domestically.
You can grow in the state ofConnecticut commercially. But
(23:50):
that's not because it's the bestone, or it's just because it
worked out in terms of, it's anover the winter crop. They know
how to it is very it's regulatedlike seafood, so the tissue
samples are tested to make surethat the seaweed, while
absorbing carbon and nitrogen,isn't absorbing anything that
would be bad for you. So thathappens every year to our
harvest. That's a unique law tothe state of Connecticut right
(24:12):
now, or I shouldn't say, lawthat's a unique part of our
permitting process. It's not theonly edible seaweed. So there's
a ton that you can forage for aswell, as long as you are acutely
aware of the quality of water inwhich the seaweed has kind of
grown in,
Ellen (24:26):
it's so relational to obviously land farming, we talk
a lot about soil and soilhealth, and we had a long
journey here on our property. Wewere talking about the little
bit before we started recordingabout making sure that all of
the toxic chemicals were out ofour garden and our lawns. We
like a wild lawn. We forageviolets so we can make my
(24:48):
daughter and I love to make theviolet syrup, but you can't do
that if you're puttingpesticides on your lawn, because
you can't eat those violets. Iguess you could, but should you
probably not. But yeah, sothere's so many correlations
about how we treat. Planet, bothour water and our land, that
makes such a huge impact in ourlives.
Trevor (25:05):
As you said, for Connecticut, you have very
unique things that are part ofthe permitting process. There
are different regulations andthings like that. And you'd
mentioned about the blue economyand how much that is sort of up
and down the East Coast. How'syour farm helping to contribute
to that overall economy, becauseeverybody here in along
Connecticut, New York and RhodeIsland, it's such a big part of
(25:27):
our ethos of being on the water,near the water, and having that
as part of the part of who weare as New Englanders.
Ellen (25:36):
And people might not know what blue economy means,
too. Maybe you can give us alittle background on that?
Suzie Flores (25:41):
Well, I mean, that is not my term, but it is a,
essentially an economy that isbeing built out of
sustainability, specificallywhen you're thinking about
things that are coming from theocean and just sustainable
practices in general. And soit's not just food. It's not,
you know, it could be packagingthat is made with seaweed, or,
(26:01):
you know, having creating thatindustry for the invasive green
crabs, or, you know, all sortslike just, even just focusing on
fish species that are closer toshore and in season, rather than
sending fishermen out totreacherous places in the ocean,
super far away from theirfamilies in order to catch, You
know, something that we're all alittle bit more used to, like a
(26:23):
tuna or something like that. Soit encompasses, really, all of
that. What's really interestingabout the farm location, I think
I pointed it out when we were onthe boat, is that I, like you,
saw how much current is comingand going, right? I'm regulated
by the state of Connecticut. Myone one direction of the tide
comes from Rhode Island, and theother direction of the tide
comes from New York. I am, like,right at that kind of crux of,
(26:47):
like, right where the riparian,or, I don't even know the water
borders would be between NewYork, Connecticut and Rhode
Island, but it's all the samewater. Yeah, because it's water,
it's fluid. So there's that,that kind of, the fact that the
way that my farm is essentiallynourished collectively by the
habits that people on fishersIsland are having, how they
(27:08):
treat their lawns, and thatrunoff that goes into the water
will impact my farm, and whathappens in watch Hill Rhode
Island, on all of those lawns,would impact what happens on my
farm. It's a perfect analogy forhow I think the industry has
started to kind of work. Andmaybe not think so much about
borders, but think of us allcollectively as a region. I kind
of forgot what the originalquestion is. I got very excited
(27:29):
about that.
Ellen (27:30):
No, that was a great answer. What do you see? The
role of your farm being as? Ithink you just really answered
it. You see, it's a cycle. Imean, it's a circle, I guess,
yeah,
Suzie Flores (27:39):
time is flat circle,
Ellen (27:41):
and it keeps going, friend,
Suzie Flores (27:44):
I think that what the farm has taught me is to be
a broader advocate. We don'thave the luxury in this industry
right now, for anybody out therewho's farming to be competitive
with each other. Yet weabsolutely got another water
analogy. We have to all risewith the tide.
Trevor (27:57):
There it is. We do love a pun on this podcast that is
very true.
Suzie Flores (28:01):
There's so many, yeah, so it's it's taught me
that collaboration andcooperation is really the only
way forward for this industry togrow. There is a really strong
sense of togetherness, and Ithink that that's how we'll be
able to continue to own theintegrity of this style of
(28:21):
farming. So we're regulatedreally heavily. Other countries
don't have the same sort ofregulations, to my knowledge,
and so we have an opportunity tobe role models, essentially in
being stewards of the ocean,farming responsibly more small
farms that are independentlyowned, spread out across is
(28:43):
going to have little to noimpact on the ecosystem other
than positive impact, right? Wedon't want to have that 100
Acre, massive farm that'sshading out an entire section of
the ocean. So there's, you know,there's ways that we can kind of
continue to grow this industrydomestically, together in a way
that uplifts everybody at thesame time. And that is what I'm
(29:03):
kind of learning from my farm,that it isn't I can't do it
alone. Yeah, I'm not gonna bethe only one. I'm not trying to
do a like hostile takeover ofthe ocean. I really, really love
seeing this community grow, andI want to actively do more of
that. I just need to figure outa way to do that and also pay
for my kids to go to soccer.
Trevor (29:24):
Yeah, and is there's, are there a larger group that,
like, is a, I'd say, like,lobbying organization, or is
that something that that can becreated as it goes? Yeah,
there's helping. Who's helping?
Talk about it?
Suzie Flores (29:38):
I Well, like you guys. Yeah, there's, there's a
lot of I'm also meeting justsome of the coolest people
organically, just from being atthe farmers market and having
people say, Well, I'm interestedin that. Why don't we see what
we can do to try to support thisindustry? There's not anything
that's formalized, but we'retrying. We do work a lot with
that nonprofit, Green Wave.
They're wonderful. People, theyare focused on primarily
(30:01):
establishing farmers, andthey've been doing a lot of
market development, but thereisn't an industry association
here. There are some governmentfunded organizations. But again,
the priorities aren't exactlywhere I would like to see them
focused, but I think that it'ssomething that can be done. I
just don't know exactly how todo it.
Ellen (30:22):
I feel like we're having a moment where it's gonna
happen. I really do.
Trevor (30:25):
Give Ellen only, like, 20 minutes.
Ellen (30:30):
We're gonna have lots of conversation. But I think one of
the things you you just saidwhich resonates. And again,
we've talked, we talk about thisa lot because it's so important,
local farms of any kind can't,yeah, work unless people support
them. We need to be number oneis to go to our local farms, our
kelp farms, our local growers.
That's so critically important,because of all the amazing
(30:51):
things that you're doing whenyou're thinking about it so
holistically. But impact on theplanet, impact on others, that's
huge. But for our listeners whoare like kelp, I only think of
it in terms of Asian dishes thatI enjoy. How would you suggest
people get their intro to kelp?
You've had some amazingpartnerships with some local
(31:13):
chefs. You have recipes I know,but how do we get someone who is
why kelp? How do I eat that? Howdo I get it from Susie? People
eating the kelp? Yeah,
Suzie Flores (31:26):
well, we are working with this awesome
organization called the yellowfarmhouse, which is a food
education nonprofit that's basedin Stonington. They're also
putting in a kelp processingkitchen through a grant that
they won with the sole purposeof trying to help small farmers
like myself have a commercialkitchen where we can process
seaweed to be used as aningredient for bigger deals,
(31:47):
potentially. So that's reallyawesome. Awesome. They're great.
And they're doing, we're doinganother program with them, which
is starting to introduce kelpinto public schools through
culinary education, and thenalso recipe testing directly
with students in the schooldistrict. And my kids schools
are going to be the first kindof test case of this model, and
(32:10):
I'm really excited to embarrassthem. I love it. It's gonna be
great. So that is, that is oneway we're kind of like hoping to
start the education of thisnative, sustainable and very
endemic, locally grown food tothe kids, starting with the with
the use we also offer. Andagain, it's very seasonal. It's
(32:31):
when the kelp harvest comes in,which is April and May.
Primarily, you'll get a littlein March, if we had a good, you
know, growing winter, and youcan get it a little bit into
June, if the waters stay cold,but in April and May, we will
work with very talented chefs tooffer cooking experiences. But
that can be tough because it's,you know, only 12 people at a
max at a time. They tend to sellout. They're, you know, on only
(32:55):
a couple weekends a year or so.
And then we have many, manyamazing, brave restaurant
partners in the state ofConnecticut, whose chefs loved
the story of the seaweed, whoreally liked the idea of trying
a new ingredient. And so you canfind it at those restaurants.
What I always ask people to do,when they say, like, oh, we want
to we want to become moreinvolved. We want to support
(33:16):
your farm. How do we do it?
Please go to your fish market,or wherever you would buy
seafood, and say, Do you carrylocal kelp? And if they say, No,
be like, Well, why not? BecauseConnecticut has one of the
largest commercial seaweed farmsoutside of Maine. So you we
should be carrying it. Everybodyshould be.
Ellen (33:31):
I love that. Okay, I'm taking and that's an action
note. Or do you why do you nothave local kelp
Trevor (33:36):
And listeners, just because you don't have the
benefit of being in the studiowith us. When Susie said, Why
don't you have kelp, there wasso much wonderful rage in her
eyes. It was I immediatelyresponded, awesome. And Ellen
then had like a laser beamconnection to that. Why aren't
you supporting local fisheries,growers and farms? That was just
(33:59):
a very special moment. I had tocomment on that..
Suzie Flores (34:02):
That was a jersey vein.
Ellen (34:05):
We do. We have the jersey connection. That's a
whole other thing. You can takethe girl out of Jersey. But why
would you
Suzie Flores (34:11):
A lot of the seafood places carry seaweed
salad, but it is imported, it isdyed, it is loaded with
preservatives, and it has sugarin it, so it is a very
replicable menu item. Anybodycan make it at home, and you can
use fresh ingredients, you know,it's like, it's like buying the,
like, the pre made, a pre madesalad, versus, you know, just
(34:32):
chopping the vegetables on yourown
Trevor (34:33):
at home. Yeah, for us, we always marvel at how much
less vegetables we buy, becauseyou have asparagus that you
literally crack off from thegarden, and you eat it, and it's
just, I mean, eat it raw, andit's so sweet, and you can't go
back.
Ellen (34:51):
You can't replicate once you go back.
Trevor (34:53):
So that's the same thing, like, if you have the
what everybody knows, brightgreen seaweed salad. And it's
like, neon in color, and itleaves a lot of color. And I'm
always like, what is that? Howdoes that work? Well, that's the
last time I'm meeting that.
Ellen (35:07):
So who are your big supporters in the chef world?
Where? Where can we come and trysome of your dishes in our local
restaurants?
Suzie Flores (35:13):
We I am, so I didn't do any of this work, but
we have had seven James Beardnominated chefs as all this,
this is like that slips my mind.
And this is not just, this is inPhiladelphia, Washington, DC, in
Connecticut, and it's like it'sjust the coolest thing ever. So
OCO and cottage, located inWestport and in Rye, Ryan has
(35:36):
been one of my longest runningcustomers, Brian. Chef Brian
Yes. Chef Brian Lewis, yep. He'sbeen one of my longest
customers, and his his executivechefs at both restaurants are
just so incredible. That was oneof my first stops today, was
going over and meeting ChefNick. Anytime you go to Oh, go
try the seaweed salad. There yougo. You can see, you can see and
(35:58):
taste the difference I am in thein Stonington. So in my area, we
just, we just have a lot of Cheflove, and there's a lot of
talent by us, just like there isin this area. So Chef David
Standridge and Chef Renee two,Ponce, Chef Adam Young. So these
are restaurants, respectively.
Would be shipwright starter,oyster club slash port of call
(36:20):
sift and mix. Gosh, I'm sure forgetting like, 1000 up there.
Yeah, I can, I can give you somein the show so people can try.
It's wonderful. And they do allsorts of different things with
the seaweed that I never wouldhave. Even cookie recipe up,
yeah. Oh, and like, they haveblown it away times 1000 like,
David will candy the kelp, andthen he like, crumbles it and
(36:43):
uses it and like flam styledesserts. And talk about a
conduit for kids, oh yeah. Likehiding your good stuff in, like
a cookie. It is sugar kelp.
Well, I have, there's a chef wework with out of white gate
farms in East slime, who makes,okay, ready for it. She makes a
sugar kelp macaroni and cheesethat is to die for. Okay, where
(37:03):
was this again? Yeah, white GateFarm, and they'd have, like a
farm stand where they doprepared foods. Oh, wow. She has
a recipe up. It's, it's, it'salso up on our website. So if
somebody wanted to buy the kelpand try it themselves, as I
should, yes, but nothing beatshaving somebody else cook for
you.
Ellen (37:22):
Spoke true words, I will say I told you this before I I
love to cook. It's very hardright now, because we're going
through a renovation, to nothave access to my kitchen,
working on our table, working onour table, our new table. But as
a busy parent who works it'slovely to have that choice taken
away from you sometimes, thereis that's a nice feeling. You
(37:45):
know, on a particularly busyday, like you driving many hours
to get down here to deliver to achef partner coming on a
podcast, getting back before thekids get home from school,
right?
Suzie Flores (37:54):
It's great, yeah, we do.
Trevor (37:57):
And it's, I mean, I think that's so much. The whole
idea here is, let's excitepeople through their stomachs,
through, yeah, through what it'sdesigned to be is to eat and
what, outside of sharing youramazing crop with some I guess,
just okay, James Beard, awardwinning chefs. If you can't find
anybody better, that's fine.
What other products you do? Youhave at Stonington?
Suzie Flores (38:21):
So we did a and we will relaunch everything next
year with this new kitchencoming up. But a vegan for a
cock, a and a song, yeah. Sugarkelp. Incredible. Sugar kelp.
Salt, sea salt. And what's coolabout the kelp sea salt is the
sugar kelp naturally has iodinein it, so you can get the
minerals from the sea salt,which is, you know, one of the
(38:43):
reasons why people enjoy addingsea salt to their dishes, in
addition to the tastiness of it,iodine from the kelp. And you
don't need as much salt when youhave the kelp there, acting as
that sort of umami, savoryenhancement to your foods.
Ellen (38:57):
Trevor got me some seaweed salt, which we liked
very much, but I'd rather have
Trevor (39:02):
the sea bean. Yeah, it was that was more from the sea
bean side. Yeah. Wasn't a localsalt. It was not local. Throw
that away and get the goodstuff.
Suzie Flores (39:13):
One, have you guys tried it in your gardens yet?
Ellen (39:15):
Well, that's the other thing I wanted to ask you about.
Tell us about seaweed ingardens.
Suzie Flores (39:19):
You mentioned before, making sure that there
is enough water in the soil, andthat is one of the very cool
things that seaweed does,because obviously, it's cellular
structure, right? You know, itcan hang on to water a little
bit longer. So having seaweedincorporated into your soil, in
theory, will reduce the amountof reduced time between
waterings for you, incredible,right? You know what I mean?
(39:40):
Yeah, it improves the just thesoil composition, the soil
structure. It has obviously thenutrients that are getting
pulled from the ocean, and thesame nutrients that are good for
our bodies will nourish the soilas well. And it has a growth
hormone naturally in it, so it'ssupposed to be very great for
like, root development.
Development, and so fruiting andfruiting development too. So
(40:01):
there's a lot of positives tohaving seaweed in the soil and
using something that is a like,locally cultivated, you know,
it's grown in clean waters. Youdon't have to worry about, you
know, putting heavy metals orsomething like that into your
soil. It can potentially, thisis what I'm hoping, that having
the seaweed kind of soil mealthat we use. And what's cool
(40:22):
about this also is when we drythe seaweed at the end of the
season, whatever I can't sellfor food, it's a great avenue
for farmers like myself to takeall of that, what would be waste
crop, and use it in another kindof way that can still help
support the farms. You stillhave to pull it all out of the
water. So now that kind of soilamendment stuff will pay for the
farm hands that I had to hire todo that work anyway. So it's
(40:44):
nice, but it's it could be analternative to using chemical
inputs in your soil, which wouldbe great.
Ellen (40:53):
It's huge, I mean, and everyone's we're always looking
for, what is the organic compostthat's going to help your
gardens grow? Now are, I know,we talked a little bit about,
and this kind of goes into thenext question about question
about, what do you see for thefuture of Stonington kelp? Yeah,
and because that's not the solefocus of your business,
obviously, it's the fresh kelpand the farming, but that is
(41:13):
another piece. So, or is thereplaces where you can purchase
your kelp for for gardens? Andthen would you see that as a
bigger part of the business inthe future?
Suzie Flores (41:22):
Yeah, I think that that's going to be a really big
part of the business for ourfarm and for the other smaller
regional farmers, because theprocessing infrastructure is
minimum. That's sort of like ourminimal, like viable product
that we could make. We're usingwaste crop, and it's easy, it's
replicable. And I'm actuallyworking on a grant to kind of
(41:43):
learn more about this. And oncewe have this information that
essentially the recipe that Ifollowed in order to make the
soil amendment is going to beavailable to every other farmer,
anybody else who cares to lookat it. But part of sharing the
knowledge, yeah, absolutely eachother, yeah, absolutely. I want
a test patch. Yeah. I want totry 100% I actually thought that
I put one in my car for youtoday, and I didn't cast when
Trevor (42:08):
you come back if,
Suzie Flores (42:09):
If I didn't have to actually think about how to
get from point A to point B, butI imagined what, what my dream
point B would look like. I wouldlove to see the magic wand. I
would love to have a fullyelectric harvest barge that we
can take larger groups out onfor the tour. So something that
would be a little bit morecomfortable, but allow us to
still do the work that we needto do, and do so quietly with
(42:30):
the electric motors, I would.
And so I would love to have abroader outreach with
ecotourism, because that, Ithink, is a really key way in
both uplifting the local economyin terms of driving tourism. It
pushes people to the restaurantso they can try the kelp. And we
love our restaurants in themystic Stonington area. And then
it also, it creates kelp superfans for life. So I would love
to see that. I would love to seethe soil amendment thing just
(42:53):
really take off in this region,that every single garden center
that sells the vegetable plugs,the fruits, all of it that they
all of them, are carrying localseaweed products, and I would
love to see our seaweed on theback of all of the seafood
trucks that are already drivingup and down. I don't want to add
another truck to the road, but Iwould love to cram boxes of
seaweed on the back of saidtrucks, so that the chefs who
(43:15):
all want to try it have accessto it. So again, your action
call listeners is to go to yourlocal sea seafood market and
say, Do you sell kelp? And is itlocal?
Trevor (43:26):
And if you don't - full of rage - "why not?"
Suzie Flores (43:31):
Asking the question of where it came from
is huge. It's so massivebecause, you know, you never
know. I think a lot of peoplethink, especially at least where
I am in Stonington, like we'rein a fishing port, like a
fishing village,
Ellen (43:42):
it's coming from, right there, correct, right?
Suzie Flores (43:44):
Guess what? It is not
Ellen (43:46):
you are. It is amazing how far your food travels and
and I think we are. It's aneducational process to teach
people how to ask that question,yeah, because I don't think it's
I think to your point, it's nota natural people don't think to
ask. But as we learn more andmore about where our food comes
from, as a farmer's market says,who grows your food, well, where
does your food come from? That'sa really important part.
Trevor (44:08):
And I think, and certainly on the water, because
I've looked there's really onlya very, very small handful of
fishers that are truly onlyfocusing on, what can I get in
this very small area around thesound, from the sound right
outside, and to your point thatnot everybody is comfortable
(44:32):
with the kinds of fish that arecoming out of the right, out of
their local waters,
Suzie Flores (44:36):
yeah. And that's ridiculous. It is. And the the I
mean, the water is a change inlike there's new fisheries that
are being introduced in ourarea. Other fisheries are
leaving the area because of thechanges in the water. So having
the the ability to have yourpalate adapt as well is going to
(44:57):
be really important, whether youlike it or not. Unfortunately.
Unfortunately,
Ellen (45:01):
As you said, that we are it's everyone is responding to
how the world is changing andwhat's available. That's that's
super important. What's
Trevor (45:08):
your favorite kelp recipe?
Ellen (45:10):
I think it might be that. Is it the mac and cheese
literally going on favorite,
Suzie Flores (45:14):
the one that I make the most is probably the
kelp, furry cockey that we have,it's just sesame, salt, sugar
and lots and lots and lots ofseaweed. And I make that the
most because I put it oneverything, french fries,
popcorn, eggs, rice,
Ellen (45:28):
oh my God, I want it on popcorn right now. Ice cream,
it's so good.
Trevor (45:33):
Sprinkle in my mouth.
Suzie Flores (45:33):
Yeah, it's delicious. But the one that I do
like the most would be thatusing the sea would Ooh and like
I do like a good Pokeball, but Ithink it might be the macaroni
and cheese. It's that sounds,it's really great. There's also
a seaweed, like, puff, likechip, kind of that David makes
out a ship, right? Starter. Iknow it's really good. Oh, that
(45:55):
sounds, oh, we gotta get upthere. Yeah,
Trevor (45:56):
I do like a kale chip, you know, because they're so
crunchy. And I think this wouldbe, like, yes, because of the
cellular structure, wouldreally, it's changing.
Suzie Flores (46:04):
I think he, I think he uses, like, like a
tapioca flour a little bit on itto keep it dry, so that when you
it just, it's very good there,actually. I mean, there's a lot
of them. Renee did a Buca Tinionce where the seaweed was in
the pot, like it wasn't seaweednext to a piece of pasta. Like
she made the pasta homemade, andthe seaweed flower was happened?
Ellen (46:21):
That would be, yeah, I can see where that structurally,
how that can happen. That soundsamazing. It was so good. So we
ask on the podcast always,what's going on in your yard? So
knowing your yard is the water,what's going on in your yard
right now?
Trevor (46:35):
The yard, yard
Suzie Flores (46:37):
Spring happens in the water too. So my, you know,
the signs of spring in youryard, your beautiful flowers
that are starting to pop up. Isaw the, you know, all of the
harvest poking out through thedirt. The sites that I see of
spring are obviously more boatson the water, but the daffodils
(46:59):
we have, the shellfish Bloomwill be coming soon, and that is
when you start to see tiny, tinylittle mussels and marine snails
on a lot of the gear that holdsthe farm up. And I'm starting to
see more birds. Actually, theBirding of seaweed farming has a
complete shock. Did not thinkthat I was going to become so
(47:22):
accustomed to all of thesedifferent winter ducks, but
yeah, so now we're seeing thetransition of the birds, and the
signs of spring are coming. Thewater temperature is starting to
slightly creep up. It's time.
It's time. So yeah, we got it.
We probably have about five moreweeks of kelping.
Ellen (47:38):
Oh, wow, yeah, the season. And then what do you
what do you do over the summer,
Suzie Flores (47:42):
After we wrap so after the actual seaweed is
taken out of the ocean, we dothe work to remove the gear from
the farm. Kind of do like aninventory winding down. And then
over the summer, I turn rightaround and start grant writing
to see what I can do for nextseason
Ellen (48:00):
the advocacy begins,
Suzie Flores (48:02):
but that's a lot of what that downtime is. It's,
you know, when I can have amoment of silence, maybe before
the kids get up and startthinking about what we want to
do, how we want to grow, yeah?
Trevor (48:12):
Oh, that's exciting. Do you have a land do you do
growing on on land?
Suzie Flores (48:18):
I grow a ton of flowers, yeah, so I love grown
flowers. And then most offlowers, I just love them. Most
of my herbs and things likethat, I have all in raised beds
or, like, big, giant buckets,because I am still working on my
soil, we can talk about, yeah.
Ellen (48:37):
Well, again, Susie, thank you. And what an
incredible experience. We highlyrecommend taking the kelp tour
in for Stonington kelp, becauseit is really such a mind
expander in so many ways. Plusit's beautiful and fun. And
Susie is a consummate captainand host. So that was a
incredibly fun experience. Andthank you for just the education
(48:58):
level and being a farmer anddoing all that you're
contributing to our world andour environment. Thank you.
We're I so thrilled that we hadthis opportunity to talk to you.
Suzie Flores (49:07):
This was great.
Trevor (49:09):
We had such a phenomenal time before and now, and I know
in the future. Thank you so muchfor being here.
Suzie Flores (49:17):
It was absolutely my pleasure. Thank you so much
for having me.
Trevor (49:21):
Ooh, that's Susie, amazing. Original, a real
original, a friend
Ellen (49:27):
now and a friend for life. If you're okay with that,
Susie,
Trevor (49:30):
I think she's, if you're out there, that's, that's what
Ellen really wants.
Ellen (49:35):
Its just, so she's so impressive.
Trevor (49:36):
No, it's awesome.
Ellen (49:37):
And the work that she and her husband Jay are doing is
just so interesting, and it'sright, and just really what we
all need to be doing in thisworld, caring about the
environment and finding new waysto bring healthy, delicious food
to the table. Good, good, tastystuff. Yeah, like that, mac and
cheese. Yeah. What did you thinkabout that?
Trevor (49:56):
I mean, I did as surprising as she mentioned.
Mentioned it, but I think it'swell documented that I have a
long, long love affair with themac and cheese. So that is on
the list, 100% on the list.
Ellen (50:09):
Well, for everyone who is very excited to try that, the
recipe for that delicious kelpmac and cheese is on their
website, on Stonington kelp, CO,C o.com, and we'll drop that in
the show notes for you. And inorder to make it you actually
have to get kelp, and it is theend of the season. So there are
some places where you can pickup fresh kelp. There is the
(50:31):
Diddy bag in Stoningtonwhitegate farm in East lime,
Flanders fish market in Eastlime and fiddleheads food co op
in New London. And if she'scoming to the Westport farmers
market, we'll drop that up. Dropthat in our stories as well.
Trevor (50:44):
And here locally, there's some restaurants too
that are obviously doing
Ellen (50:47):
Fairfield county - huge supporters. Yes,
Trevor (50:51):
maybe going a little you and me, little date night?
Ellen (50:53):
a date night?
Trevor (50:55):
Yeah, we could do oko or the cottage Kelpie, something.
Ellen (51:00):
I love that
Trevor (51:01):
A little date night.
Ellen (51:02):
I like a date night.
Trevor (51:03):
That's the plan.
Ellen (51:05):
Thanks for being with us and having a seat at our table.
Trevor (51:10):
Yard to Table is a production of Macrocosm
Entertainment. Don't forget torate us and subscribe anywhere
you listen to podcasts and fortips and more information,
follow us on Instagram@stonebrookhouse.
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