August 20, 2024 • 39 mins
Jesus dropped the reverse Uno card on leprosy when He touched the man plagued by the disease. Normally, when anyone came in contact with someone with leprosy, they would become unclean and fear they might also become a leper—a death sentence in those days. But Jesus didn’t become unclean. Instead, the reverse happened: the man with leprosy became clean and was able to rejoin the community. Join Your Church Friends as they closely examine the restoring touch of Jesus and how His restoration is an essential component in discovering a Savior.
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Episode Transcript
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>> Muireadhach (00:04):
On a mission, on a quest.
On a search or discovering the truth?
Join us on our journey to
discovering a savior.
>> Chris (00:17):
All right. Welcome to your church, friends. I'm Chris.
>> Muireadhach (00:19):
I'm, uh, Muireadhach
>> Chris (00:21):
Jumping a little bit backwards,
looking at the guy with leprosy. Cause you talked about it
like he approached Jesus. Like, that was
illegal.
>> Muireadhach (00:31):
Right?
>> Chris (00:31):
You know, when you look at the laws of everything, that was the one thing. Cause, uh,
the one for me, what stood out was the
covered in leprosy. That's what I looked into. Some
translations are full of leprosy. That's why
I knew this was the Hansen disease and maybe not
the eczema one, where, like, this
is the big thing. This is an
advanced case. You know, Luke being a doctor,
(00:54):
saying, fool of, this is an advanced case. But him
approaching Jesus is illegal. Uh, in numbers.
It said, uh, the Lord said to Moses, command the
Israelites to send away from the camp anyone who's,
uh, who has a defiling skin disease or
discharge of any kind, or who is ceremonially unclean
because of a dead body. Send away male and female,
(01:14):
like. And send them outside the camp so they will not
defile the camp where I am dwelling. So the Israelites did so,
and they sent them outside the camp just as the. The Lord instructed Moses.
So this became a law. Like, this was a thing that, like, if you're
unclean, you're outside the camp, you're not
allowed in the city, you're not allowed in normal
israeli society. That was illegal.
Uh, but then when you look at this guy and we're talking
(01:37):
about what leprosy was
like, yeah, what did he have to lose?
So this is illegal that I'm in the city and I'm going to
Jesus.
>> Muireadhach (01:47):
You'Re gonna do kill me, right?
>> Chris (01:48):
I'm already going back to.
>> Muireadhach (01:49):
If. If he's going through the same mental stuff that we know
from modern stuff, he'd be like, yeah, what does he have to lose?
>> Chris (01:55):
Yeah, you can do it. You're gonna kill me. Uh, so, like, you
know, again he goes, the Lord, if you're willing to make me clean.
And again, yeah, you're talking about, like, restoration. You're talking about
restoring this person, like, healing what he
has. But there was no previous example of Jesus doing
that up to this point. You know, we're looking at, like, Jesus healing a leper.
It was people with diseases.
(02:15):
Um, but did it say
leper in some of the previous stuff or.
>> Muireadhach (02:19):
No, I was going to say Elijah
healed a leper. Right.
>> Chris (02:23):
Yeah. So that's. I was going there, there is
precedent.
>> Muireadhach (02:27):
For prophets healing lepers.
>> Chris (02:28):
Healing lepers. But like Jesus
doing this, there was none of that. Him coming to him was such
a step of bold
faith, which is one.
>> Muireadhach (02:38):
But based off of the precedent of like
well, the prophet way back when he did it. Here's a prophet
coming through. Like maybe this guy can do it too. Like I can see
how precedent would, would help in
that. Uh, yeah, I mean we see other people in Jesus life that come forward and ask
him to do stuff that they probably never heard of. But.
>> Chris (02:55):
Yeah, so the crazy thing was there's only two
people in the Bible with leprosy getting
healed. And it's uh, the
Elijah one. Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (03:04):
Naaman.
>> Chris (03:04):
Uh, Naaman. Hm.
>> Muireadhach (03:06):
Naaman.
>> Chris (03:06):
Naamanta. Uh, and then Miriam. Name him,
name him, name him. And then Miriam, who God struck with
leprosy, uh, because she was speaking out against
Moses.
>> Muireadhach (03:15):
Sorry, his name is Naaman.
>> Chris (03:17):
Yes.
>> Muireadhach (03:17):
I was making a joke.
>> Chris (03:20):
M. I was going with you just.
>> Muireadhach (03:21):
The way that you said it. I was like, oh, it sounded like.
>> Chris (03:23):
You thought that's what I was going with you.
>> Muireadhach (03:25):
Um.
>> Chris (03:26):
So uh, Miriam got it. God struck her as a
punishment because she was talking about Moses. And then Moses
prayed for her healing. And then seven days of isolation.
Uh, she was back in uh. And then the
other one was like seven times in the Jordan, right? Like dip in the
Jordan seven times. So the great lawgiver and the great
prophet, you know, there's, there is precedent
(03:46):
to it for him to
come to Jesus. He had to think like this
guy is better than at least on par with the lawgiver
and the prophet, if not more capable to do
it again, you know, in this situation,
what does he have to lose? Like, it's a huge
thing.
Um, the other thing I want to touch on was the touch part
(04:07):
aspect of it because we
saw in the other things it was just the
word. The demons.
>> Muireadhach (04:14):
Mhm.
>> Chris (04:14):
Just by his word gone. Sickness gone just by
speaking. Uh, but this one was touched.
And I like what nt Wright put out
here. Uh. Cause to me it's just like, it seemed more like out of
compassion, you know, because if you're a leper, what have you not
had in a long time? And if
you have an advanced case, you haven't, you know, no one's touched
you. But uh. Nt Wright put. Nobody had touched this
(04:37):
man. Uh, we may suppose for years. His
body was now riddled with the disease. It had clearly
been quite literally eating away at him for a long time. And now
Jesus reaches out and touched him. We can only
imagine the sense of awe and joy that that brought to the
mandev. Just like that alone, that,
you know, the touch happened and then the
healing happened. Um, and I thought that was pretty
(04:59):
cool. Uh, even looking at like, how pharisees, again,
going back to how they would treat people, uh, anyone
with skin, uh, diseases, you know, they were like,
they're sinners, right? Cause that's what their thought is.
You've got this, you're a sinner, you're an outcast. I
mean, the way they treated, even Samaritans and tax collectors
were pretty, you know, not
(05:19):
great. It was very elitist type
stuff. But to touch a leper.
And then I heard this and it just like, sparked some other things
in my head as looking at this. But like, the
Samaritan, the good Samaritan story
where, uh, the Levi and the.
>> Muireadhach (05:35):
Rabbit, but they wouldn't touch him. Cause they thought he was dead and.
>> Chris (05:38):
It would make them unclean.
>> Muireadhach (05:39):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Chris (05:40):
But the Samaritan was willing to take that risk. And I was like,
man, that's a huge. Why is no one
teaching that? That's a huge part of, like, that story.
>> Muireadhach (05:48):
Yeah, that's like the main reason why they were just
like, oh, yeah, I gotta keep to my
thing. Which is even weirder because it's not like
if you touch a corpse, you're disqualified.
It's just like, well, you gotta spend
like seven days and you gotta go through this ritual.
>> Chris (06:05):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (06:05):
So it's even like, I don't know. As I've heard, it taught in different
ways. And again, you kind of read into a bit, but it's just
like, if I go deal with this, it's gonna be annoying. It's
almost like when you hear from, like, I don't want to deal with the paperwork.
>> Chris (06:17):
Yes. Yeah. That's really what it comes down
to. Uh, so, you know, the fact that Jesus touched him,
he's reached out and touched someone who was unlovable and
untouchable. Um, and then you,
like, yeah, I was wanting to get to that too.
The. He touched him
and Jesus didn't become unclean,
it reversed.
>> Muireadhach (06:36):
Mhm.
>> Chris (06:37):
It was the reverse uno cardinal. Boom,
here it is. Now you're clean. Um, and he touches him and
he becomes clean. And it just, all of it works
differently. And I think that's where
for me, you start seeing the bigger picture of kind of this conversation.
What's the difference between unclean and what's the difference
between sin? Right. Um,
(06:57):
because once Jesus touches us,
that we're clean, you know, once he comes into
our lives, we're clean of that state. And
then, you know, because of our flesh, there's still those
struggles in there. But we're
clean. We can go before him. We can. We're
allowed to go into his presence. Um, there isn't
that like seven day outside
(07:20):
the camp thing? You know, forgiveness is there,
forgiveness is quicker. And uh, you
know, you kind of see that picture here getting
presented with Jesus
being able not just to,
because that's the big thing. The guy now he has to go do the levitical
thing, right? Go, go, um, present
yourself to the priest. So the priest has to look him over,
(07:42):
make sure he's clean, make sure there's no more disease on
him. And then the guy now gets to go
back to his family, gets to go back to his village, gets to go back to his
community. He's a fully accepted member
now. As if he had no
leprosy.
>> Muireadhach (07:57):
Mhm.
>> Chris (07:58):
And now he's a back part of that. So now not only is this
guy, in the eyes of the Pharisees,
morally clean, but now he's ceremonially
clean and he's back in the community. And Jesus does
that for us.
>> Muireadhach (08:10):
So I'm gonna jump back a
bit and then try and run up to catch up with you in the
conversation is when you're saying on the
touching side of things. I went back, I think we
touched on an earlier conversation. I think it was like when
Simon's, uh, mother in law and kind of we're talking about that. And then
there's the demons, which may have been part of
the next episode, maybe part of that episode.
(08:32):
But it says that Jesus laid his hands
and healed people. So he was laying his hands as
part of the healing. Just I don't
think it's part of the demon stuff. I don't think that that's part of
like exorcism practice. Could be
wrong. There might be other sections that has it. But as far
as the touching, it's. There was our already him
(08:53):
touching and healing people and doing that. But
even with that, I'm not saying that to take away from the
part that you and, uh, Mister Tom Wright came up with. As
far as dude hasn't had a hug in a while.
>> Chris (09:05):
That means a lot, dude.
>> Muireadhach (09:06):
It does. I think that I've ready even like,
I would be making up statistics, but feel
free for anybody to look up.
Like, how long your average
american male goes without
touch. It's pretty
crazy that like, men don't get affectionate
touch.
>> Chris (09:26):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (09:27):
And just like all the psychological studies that have been done on that. And
just like men who are part of society, look at what happens from
not getting touch. This one's like
far outside of that. Yeah, um,
just. There's that. But,
um, looking at
the thing of uncleanness, I know that
we've really talked on it, on unclean doesn't
(09:49):
equal sinfulness. M there is some
sin that could equal uncleanness,
sexual morality and idolatry to mainly highlight
those two. But. So
Leviticus is just like, hey, no, this is just like
ritually, ceremonially unclean. When you get
into like the prophets
Isaiah and otherwise, they are
(10:12):
very heavily drawing on the correlation
and using those examples that like, hey, your sin is
making you unclear. Like, the language does start to
get used.
Um, which I think just part of our conversation to
touch on that, of just like scripture itself
draws those connections of just like, yeah, you know what
that is. And sin is doing that
(10:34):
within you as an individual and within you as a people.
But then you brought it to the point and why that was on
my mind and why I want to touch on is because you were talking about Jesus and what
his restoration does. M
and to link back to why I was saying earlier
with Leviticus of like, you have
eleven through 15 just kind of put in here about what being
(10:56):
clean is, and then you get 16 is talking about the day of
atonement.
>> Chris (10:59):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (11:00):
And the big thing that we look at as far as Jesus being
a messiah is like, we look at
him offering atonement. Mhm. And if we
look at atonement really being on like this purifying
side of things, a lot of times I think that as modern
christians, we think like, oh, yeah, forgiveness, forgiveness of sins.
But atonement for the camp,
(11:21):
atonement for Israel, uh, it was
really part of this thing of like, on this
day, we're going to confess all the sins,
but what's going to happen is this power of
chaos and darkness and death that through
all of our actions has been like encroaching on the camp.
This day of atonement is going to be like
(11:41):
a force of life, pushing it all out
and cleansing everything again. That
like, where we are is like
God's land, it's holy land and it's clean and
it's pure from all these things. And
so when we see Jesus coming through and he's healing leprosy and he's
healing the woman with the issue of blood, and he's like
raising the dead back to life, all of these things that are like ritually
(12:04):
unclean but he's also going and forgiving
sin. Like, I think that the
bigger picture there,
because as we're saying, if you're
ceremonially unclean, you can't come into God's presence.
Mhm. Has nothing to do with, well, you're a sinful person.
You can't come into God's presence. There's a thing of, like,
uncleanness. And when Jesus is offering
(12:25):
purity and cleanness in that sense, but
also forgiveness, like, what's the end
result of that? Like, you can come into God's presence
and it's not a thing that I know I'm jumping
ahead or backwards. I don't even know how or if we'd cover it. But it's
like, really the end goal. What Jesus is
coming to do isn't to allow us to go to the temple that's in
Jerusalem. It's that we are the
(12:48):
temple and God's spirit comes into us.
>> Chris (12:50):
Uh, right.
>> Muireadhach (12:52):
So that's where being made clean really
matters. Because if you're looking at like, oh,
I had a nocturnal mission, I can't go
to the temple for like, seven days or whatever it
is. Like, I can't go into God's presence, and I'm cut off from all
of that. To
the spirit of God is living inside of you.
>> Chris (13:13):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (13:13):
Like, what Jesus is bringing,
it's just so far beyond anything that's even,
like, of what could possibly be on the radar
of, like, the conversations of just like, well,
yeah. What's. What's the proper thing for leprosy?
>> Chris (13:28):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (13:29):
You know what I mean? Which why I'm bringing that in is like,
we're tracking with Jesus on a journey, and I'm kind
of looking towards, because I kind of already know some of the destination that
we're heading towards. And just like, right ahead. Yeah.
Been hearing about it for a long time. Spoiler alerts
it's like we're watching the chosen. It's just
like, is it called a spoiler
(13:49):
if, uh, kind of been written down for 2000
years?
>> Chris (13:53):
It's a horrible show. You create a show and your main character dies at the
end.
>> Muireadhach (13:57):
Gave it away. Yeah, but in that,
that's where I'm looking at these things and like, cool. So we're
on this journey, we're discovering a savior, and it's like, okay.
He's dealing with leprosy, he's dealing with uncleanness, he's dealing
with sinfulness. But looking towards,
like, is that all,
you know, like, oh, cool. Not that, oh, that's all, like, this
(14:18):
guy with leprosy got to go to his family and everything that you just said, it's like that's
a completely changed life.
>> Chris (14:22):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (14:23):
But Jesus offers even so much more than that.
>> Chris (14:26):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (14:26):
Which I think is amazing.
>> Chris (14:28):
The term restoration really does encompass more than
just what this restoration
presents. Right.
>> Muireadhach (14:34):
There's a huge image of it and.
>> Chris (14:36):
It was making me think too. Again, maybe skipping ahead, maybe
not, but like, there are moments when Jesus
heals someone and then tells them,
go and sin no more.
>> Muireadhach (14:46):
Mhm.
>> Chris (14:47):
You don't see this here. You don't see that what you see
is go present. Don't. First don't tell anyone. Right.
Because being known that you're the messiah is going to get you
killed. So that time has not yet come.
So it's don't tell anyone. But it's then
go present yourself to the priest, make the sacrifice. When the time
comes that you need to make the sacrifice to the temple, that's
(15:07):
when you go and you make the sacrifice of the temple. Whatever wealth
you have, whether it's the two doves or the bigger thing,
but you go make the sacrifices that are required,
present yourself to the priest and then that's
it. But it isn't followed with it, uh,
and go and sin no more. So this is a good comparison
to like, well, what was different between him and the other
(15:28):
people. Um, because clearly if he's telling
someone, go and sin no more, there must have been something
inside that Washington,
you know, like the sinfully wise, morally.
Um, but yeah, there's a huge difference. But either
way, what does he do? He restores it all. You know, the
work on the cross did do that. It was a
(15:48):
restoration, not just to make us
ceremonially clean, but also now we can be morally
clean as well.
>> Muireadhach (15:55):
And that's having part of this conversation and camping
out a little bit in Leviticus or even touching on like, I
just don't think that uh, for modern
people who are largely been in a
christian world where so much of this has been like taken
care of for 2000 years, that like
we even care or appreciate
being made clean. Mhm. You know what I mean?
(16:17):
It's just like Leviticus. That's boring. Why would I
ever read that? It doesn't make sense. Also,
it doesn't really apply. Right. Also, and you know,
it's just like to not realize
that big part of Jesus's life
and ministry and death and resurrection, what has been
accomplished, like, you know, it's just like, I, um, don't know,
unappreciative of it, because you don't even know what it is.
>> Chris (16:39):
Yeah. A lot of times when you look at even, I mean, the old testament
enlarged, there's, like, I think sections that are more.
People are more happy with m. You know, you got your psalms.
People love psalms and proverbs and stuff like that.
Um, sorry, just.
>> Muireadhach (16:53):
People love psalms. It's just like, have you read them all?
God? Kill them.
>> Chris (16:57):
Yeah, kill them big, kill them hard,
knock out their teeth. Um, but,
like. And, like, Genesis gets its genesis, and half
of exodus gets its fame. But everything
else after that and in between, like, no one wants to read. No one wants to read
about the Israelites having to wipe out a nation.
No one wants. Or groups of people.
No one wants to read numbers. Cause it's just list of
(17:20):
people and stuff like that. Deuteronomy is a
repetitive thing of what you've already readde.
>> Muireadhach (17:25):
Um, chronicles.
>> Chris (17:26):
Chronicles are gonna put you to sleep for the most
part. And I'm saying a lot of this
sarcastically. Uh, Leviticus is like, that's just the
rules. One, that's the one that tells me I can't have
two different fabrics on, touching each other and stitched in.
That's the one where. Wait, do we follow this now? Do we
make sacrifices? Do we not make sacrifices? Why don't we make
sacrifices anymore? Yes.
(17:49):
Pork ribs. Uh, the good ribs.
>> Muireadhach (17:51):
The other ones don't count as ribs.
>> Chris (17:53):
The mcRib. Can I have the McRib? When it sees Nolan
out? Um, you know, that's what it gets
looked at. That's what it's viewed as. Um. But you
are missing when you don't read Leviticus.
A good chunk of understanding.
>> Muireadhach (18:08):
Sorry.
A couple off topic things, and I'll bring it back in. But the kids
summer thing was today, and they were doing. They had the
leaders go up and they were doing, like, sword drills. So it's like, cool. We're gonna
tell you a Bible verse. You need to, like, put your Bible on your head, pull it
down. Whoever finds it first, right? And they're doing, like, a knockout
challenge. And one of the verses was in Amos.
And I heard someone next to me, like, Amos, like, where is that?
(18:29):
And I was like, yeah, we have an episode on that if
you want to go listen to, uh, our forgotten books of the Bible series.
Like, there's Amos. There's a few episodes on that.
>> Chris (18:37):
He does more than just cookies.
>> Muireadhach (18:38):
And then one of them was Philemon. And then someone's
like, how did you pronounce that? Like, what is
that? And I was like, we have an episode on that you can get.
Just when you talk about all these things, they're like, oh, yeah, the Old Testament, outside of, like,
the popular stuff, tends not to get.
>> Chris (18:52):
I mean, that's the Bible in general. Right? Like, outside of the popular stuff.
Philemon. I mean, most people would just understand it
as Philemon.
>> Muireadhach (18:58):
Yeah, it's a weird Pokemon.
>> Chris (19:00):
Yeah. Gotta catch them all.
>> Muireadhach (19:02):
Um, yeah.
In tracking and all right, so leviticus has
a rulebook. I think that's an important thing to bring
to Jesus as well. Mhm. Is that
Jesus? Yes. He's touching someone with
leprosy, which
unclean. Right. But he does it because
look at what the result. Like, I don't know. Did he touch a person
(19:25):
with leprosy? Because it seems like that person doesn't have leprosy. Like, you know,
it's kind of a thing of just like, well, what's, you know, where's the
fault there? But then also the mercy, how you said, like, it's
illegal. That person shouldn't have come up. But we see time and time again that
Jesus is just like, no. Like, mercy
is important in the law.
>> Chris (19:41):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (19:42):
And that's what he comes against. The Pharisees. Like, you guys are all concerned about
tides. You're forgetting about mercy and righteousness. Like, uh, you're not
getting. The important thing is important. So even there
of seeing, like, it's not that he's
ignoring the law, he's very much keeping it.
Even when it comes to cool. You've been healed. Go
do the proper thing, right? Go to the priest, do the
(20:02):
proper sacrifice, and do it. Like, Jesus very much
keeps to all of this Old Testament stuff. Like, for
Jesus, Leviticus is super important, which
is a thing that I get into conversations a lot with people who,
like, disagree with a lot of the Old Testament,
but they love Jesus. I'm like, jesus had every
opportunity to point out anything wrong with the
(20:22):
Old Testament. You know, if it got, like,
distorted or there was something going on or any of that stuff going on, like, jesus
had every opportunity to point that out. He didn't
attack the Old Testament in the way that modern scholars want
to attack the Old Testament. He's attacking, how are they applying
it?
>> Chris (20:37):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (20:38):
He was like, hey, what they're saying to do is good, but just don't
live it how they're living it. But like, the words are
legit.
>> Chris (20:44):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (20:44):
You know what I mean?
>> Chris (20:45):
Yeah. Like the tithing and all the stuff in the extra minute. Like, none of
that was wrong, but it was like, what was inside like, uh,
the heart of it all. That's what made them
unclean. Yeah. Yeah. I really do
think it's a big chunk of understanding. Even
this, like this story in the Bible,
this moment that Luke hits of knowing the
(21:05):
levitical laws because it doesn't pop
out of all the things that are happening,
covered in leprosy. This guy is like advanced
state, incurable even in today's
probably society where we at least could stop some of it, right.
He's just walking dead.
Mhm. Breaks, um, the law because
he comes to Jesus and then Jesus touches him. And
(21:28):
now he's clean. Like all this. What's clean, what's unclean
thing. And I really like how you
put it together, like the two sons of
Aaron story. Then all of a sudden, here's what makes
you unclean and clean and what allows you to
come into the presence of God and what doesn't. And how you can
get back into the presence of God.
>> Muireadhach (21:47):
Mhm.
>> Chris (21:47):
And then it picks up like, okay, the day of
atonement. And a lot of things like, I
don't think you even mentioned it, but when the day of atonement,
uh, the priest put his hand on the sheep,
right? That went out. The sheep that carries the sins went out to
Azazel.
>> Muireadhach (22:03):
The goat. Right?
>> Chris (22:04):
The goat, yeah. He touches him and it goes out.
>> Muireadhach (22:06):
It's like goat or a sheep. It's a goat, right?
>> Chris (22:07):
Uh, it's one or the other. But he puts his hand on it.
>> Muireadhach (22:10):
Must be a goat, those things.
>> Chris (22:11):
Look, I think it's a goat because they send the goat back to the goat
God and escape goat demon thing. Uh,
escape goat.
>> Muireadhach (22:17):
Yeah, that's what it is.
>> Chris (22:18):
Uh, but the touch, you know, to
me is what there's this parallels of like the
touch is what the sin went out and then,
uh, the other one is
sacrificed. But
again, understanding sacrifice, and this I just learned really,
myself, is like understanding sacrifice wasn't just that we
(22:39):
killed an animal and burned it on an altar, it was
that they ate and consumed it. And the idea is that
they're eating and consuming it with God. So then
Jesus being that, right, that new thing for
us, that cleanses us, that makes us clean, is
when we take communion, when we do something like that, we are
participating and a, ah, cleansing in
(22:59):
a sense.
>> Muireadhach (23:00):
And even so much of, I know that we're going on all
kinds of stuff, but devotonement, uh,
right. The one that is sacrificed,
it's not like, oh, killing was a
punishment that needed to happen. Like
the death was a means to an end for the
blood. Like, the blood is where the
life is, right?
(23:22):
And like, that's how you get the blood. Like, you know what I mean? Which
is where one of the things in the Old Testament and in the New Testament is like,
you don't eat or drink blood. That's a no
no. That's demonic, right.
There may or may not be plenty of groups within
America and globally that, uh, do weird
stuff with blood. Yeah, still, like
(23:42):
big time. It's not conspiracy. It
happens. Christians don't do that. Like, there is
power within the blood which comes with like, jesus on the
cross. Why we sing all those old hymns and the new
songs and everything else. It's like the blood having the
importance for the cleansing. Like we read in the book of
Hebrews that he goes and he puts the blood, like, in
the real temple, in the holy, like, you know, in the heavenly
(24:05):
temple.
And that's what makes things clean forever, that we're not
repeating all of these m offerings. So now that's
going off topic.
>> Chris (24:12):
And that's the thing about the death of Jesus. It's the blood,
right?
>> Muireadhach (24:16):
Mhm.
>> Chris (24:17):
The one goat doesn't, it's not killed.
The sin goat isn't killed.
>> Muireadhach (24:21):
I mean, it dies.
>> Chris (24:23):
It dies, yeah. Out in the desert, in the wilderness with the
sin demon. But it's not like
sacrifice.
>> Muireadhach (24:29):
Mhm.
>> Chris (24:29):
So when we look at what Jesus is doing, this
is always hard for me because it's such a
thing that our church grows up, the protestant
churches. Jesus took on
our sin and died for our sin. And that's
atonement. But it's getting with like
what the eastern orthodox look at it like. No, that's not what
was being presented there. Like,
(24:52):
what they're talking about is that Jesus blood,
his cleansing ness, is what washes us
and makes us clean. He's not taking on our sin in a
sense, as much as he's,
uh. This image touched us and made
us clean. Because he's clean.
>> Muireadhach (25:07):
Yeah.
>> Chris (25:08):
And it's, it's a hard thing because I wrestle with what I've had grown
up knowing and hearing this new thought.
>> Muireadhach (25:13):
It's the cross and the
gospel is. I always think of a multi, I use
the word multifaceted a lot. Which.
Multifaceted. It's like you look like at a diamond. It's got
all the faces and like, as you turn it, there's different faces to it and
you can see the different beauty and the gleaming and everything through that and the clarity
through it. And like
(25:33):
scripture talks about, like
he was, who was without sin being made sin,
which I know that looking at eastern orthodoxy, they'll
send to say that Paul, uh, was using shorthand for
him being made. Sin was shorthand for he was being made into the
sin offering.
>> Chris (25:49):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (25:50):
Rather than, you know, protestant and
otherwise, like understanding of like. No, no, he was
actually taking on the sin. Because when you're looking at,
well, can it all be, can everything
about the cross be summed up in a direct parallel
to the day of atonement? It's like, I don't think so. Like
other stuff was going, like, that's an image of it and he was
making atonement. But I do think that there's other stuff
(26:13):
within the conversation that it's hard because just
like, well, it's this or it's this or it's this, or just
like, well, yeah,
it's, those are all images of what's happening
that if it's kind of like anything where,
um, it's like when you try and hear people talk about the Trinity and they use like
little examples of stuff and it's like eventually all of it breaks the
water ice. Like, yeah. Or, you know, it's just
(26:35):
like eventually analogies break and
images break. And when you, when I look at like atonement,
Jesus that did create, like, he did achieve
atonement, that might not be the fully correct theological word, but,
you know, atonement happened through Jesus to say it.
Um, but many things happen through that,
right? Like day of atonement, I don't think
(26:56):
achieved resurrection
for anybody
yet. Jesus achieved resurrection through the cross. You know what I
mean? Like there's, there's a lot of other stuff.
>> Chris (27:06):
There's a lot of layers to it.
>> Muireadhach (27:08):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Chris (27:08):
Onions to wrap all this up.
>> Muireadhach (27:11):
Wait, I have one more thing.
>> Chris (27:12):
Oh, uh, do you.
>> Muireadhach (27:13):
I didn't get to it and it's gonna be a side note. And then you can wrap
it up in, in the way that it should be, uh.
Uh, going back to some of those things of being
unclean, like the, the food and
the not touching corpses and
uh, the sexual stuff going on.
Mhm. Is an
added layer to
(27:34):
God saying that those things were unclean
and not welcome into the full presence
of the temple or the
tabernacle when it was a tabernacle,
is that those
things couldn't get misused
and appropriated towards the worship of
goddesse. What you see
(27:56):
is, um, in pagan cultures
is that they've got like temple prostitutes in various ways.
>> Chris (28:01):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
>> Muireadhach (28:01):
So there's like, no, like, mhm. Sex isn't part of the
thing. You've got, um, like,
ancestor worship and various things happening on that.
It's like, no dead bodies. Like, that's not part of what's going on.
And, um,
just blood, things related to blood. It's just like, nope. That's
like, it was just
the layers of preventative of, like, this isn't how
(28:24):
you're going to approach me. You're not going to use these things
that the pagan nations are using.
Like, you're coming to me in the way that I'm prescribing.
>> Chris (28:33):
Yeah. This is what separates worship to me from
worship to the other gods, which.
>> Muireadhach (28:38):
Was a huge thing in Leviticus. Like, well, what was the purpose for all this? It
was just like, that you would be a holy people. Holy
meaning set apart, right? You're gonna be different than all the
other nations. So, like, here's some stuff that,
like, outside of everything about, like, oh, well, you're not fully made whole. And,
like, blood goes out and everything. It's just like, this is gonna mark you as
being different, right? Because guess what? This is real different.
(28:59):
Like, and it even prevents you from, like, oh, all of
those pagan, uh,
nations, they're going and offering sacrifices to their God.
A lot of times it was gonna be pig. You don't get to eat
that. Like, it's a preventative measure even from you joining in
with doing that. And then
I love, this is just one last thing on, um, like the.
(29:19):
I think that some of what we,
what I almost
wish that there was something of this train
of thought of keeping clean with some form of rule
is because of this. And I found it when I was
studying, is
in keeping these
day to day laws. Like, it wasn't the responsibility
(29:42):
of the high priest. These laws that were in
Leviticus were disseminated and told to the people. And it was,
uh, the heads of the household, the heads of the patriarch, like, family
and everything that was like, they were keeping these things. And it was a
willingness and a desire to stay clean and to
keep yourself clean. But it's like, in the small
things of, uh, oh, I'm not going to eat
shellfish.
(30:04):
It's every time you're coming to a meal,
you're thinking about, how am I keeping myself holy before
goddess. You know, anytime you're going through
natural things in life, you're going,
oh, I need to keep myself holy and
clean before God. And it's in these small,
seemingly mundane things that like, yeah, every month for a
(30:24):
woman, like, you're going to go through that process it has nothing to do with you being sinful,
but it's always on the forefront of the mind that in
everyday circumstances, how am I keeping
myself clean to where, like, when you're so focused on
like taking care of that,
like, yeah, why am
I gonna go out there and do that crazy sin?
(30:45):
Just how tightly it keeps your mind locked
onto staying clean before
God. I
appreciate that. And I know that at times that's where I've
wanted there to almost be like a rule book in the New
Testament, because it's like, just tell me what I'm supposed to
do. Give me a framework to lock into
(31:05):
that. Like, I can know that I'm really putting it into
practice. So, but it is something
that I think
there's not a leviticus in the New Testament,
but in finding practices
to keep yourself clean and, um, to be
seeking after him in those ways to put practices into your
(31:26):
everyday life, to be pursuing, uh,
I don't know, I just like that concept.
>> Chris (31:31):
Yeah, it's crazy how like the law was given and
how quick, like the wheels fell off of that thing.
>> Muireadhach (31:36):
Oh, yeah.
>> Chris (31:37):
How quickly they were like, here's how you keep yourself clean. And they're like,
and then they did all of this stuff. And then the
Old Testament is just littered with people
not following through from judges to kings
to, you know what we should do?
>> Muireadhach (31:50):
We should sacrifice a pig in the temple,
right?
>> Chris (31:53):
Yeah, it's just like as quickly as they could, they did it.
Uh, the wrap up I have for this is verse, uh,
16. I think I'm going to read a little bit
up front of that, though. It says, uh, yet the news about him
spread all the more so the crowds of people
came to hear Jesus and to be healed of their
sickness. But Jesus often withdrew to
lonely places and prayed. And I love this. Nt
(32:16):
wright put it this way. Uh, he said
that, uh, this would be his source of strength.
And Luke mentioning this going off
to pray in
solitary places is where Jesus would
draw his strength to do what he did, to draw the strength,
uh, to keep on mission. And uh, I didn't
put it down in my notes, but I just remembered from reading the
(32:38):
commentary that, uh, he even
phrased it as like, where are you drawing
your strength? Because there are people in your lives
that needs to be touched with the loving kindness
that Jesus touched this guy. And if you're not drawing your
strength from God, you're not going to meet that need to touch someone
who's untouchable. Uh, and I thought that was like just a
(32:59):
cool way he summed up his little section.
I get it from, um, what
is.
>> Muireadhach (33:05):
It like Luke ferver?
>> Chris (33:07):
Yeah, Luke for everyone, his everyone series. And because he just
breaks it down with stories and everything. And I just sometimes
really love the way he paints the picture of what's happening,
and that was a good one. Uh, but it just makes you think, you know,
we're talking about what makes you clean, what makes you unclean, what makes
you a, uh, sinner and what makes you not. And
kind of tying it all into the idea of like, hey,
(33:27):
jesus went out, you know, because a lot of people are like, well,
if Jesus was around today, who would he hang out with? He would hang out with
the x, y and z, uh,
whatever sin category or group of people you want to
fill in there. But every time he did it
was with the, the goal of making them
clean, presentable, clean and sin no
more. Clean and sin no more. Not just go and hang out with
(33:50):
them and be buddies with them. Um, and I feel like
for us as christians, knowing where our source is,
that putting ourselves in those places
to touch someone who may not be touchable in the
sense, you know, the christian realm,
that if we don't have the right source, uh,
then when we get there, we might become unclean
ourselves, uh, it might defile us
(34:12):
with our thoughts and how we think. But the idea is that we
go to spread the good news and the gospel to
help other people come into this, to make them
clean, um, and be part of it, so
that they can go into God's presence, not just
eternally, but here on earth where we can be
in a state of like, hey, I'm in the presence of
God. Like you said, those, those
(34:34):
daily actions, what am I doing? Is this keeping
me in God's presence? Can this keep me in the
presence of God as far as like how I'm
acting, living and what I'm doing. Um, but yeah, that was
really it. I just really liked how nt rice phrased that all
up, that little small added to the
story.
>> Muireadhach (34:53):
Yeah, there's a fun thing in looking
at biblical stories. It's like a lot of times you're
like, oh, align myself
with a hero.
>> Chris (35:03):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (35:04):
Oh, well, Jesus went and did it. So if that's where Jesus is doing,
like, where are you doing it? Mhm. But also sometimes like, you should be doing
that, especially when it comes to Jesus because like he's
modeling for us what to do. Mhm. So he's like,
can I do everything that Jesus did? Uh,
evidently not. Like, uh,
especially some things that only he could do, like going to the cross
for us and, you know, performing the atonement.
(35:27):
Um, achieving the atonement.
Atonement coming through him. He's the only one. I
just, I don't know about the way I'm phrasing that. I just feel like someone's gonna be
like, heresy. Ah.
>> Chris (35:38):
Um, well, if they made it this far,
they've heard Enoch, so.
>> Muireadhach (35:42):
No, it's a new listener. Um,
but I think that that's really one of those things of him drawing a
way to be with the father
that if
Jesus,
I don't know if it's more appropriate to say wanted to or had
to do that.
Yeah. Like, why do I think that
(36:05):
I can go without doing that? Because
it's either if he was like, having to do
that, then
don't I? Mhm. Uh, or if he was
just wanting to, shouldn't I?
Either way that I cut that is like,
I don't think that's just a. Oh, well, he was on his special mission, so he
(36:25):
had to be with the father in order to do that. I really
think that that's a modeling thing. I'm glad that
you brought it back into that because
he didn't say or do anything that he didn't get from the father.
>> Chris (36:37):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (36:38):
And honestly speaking, I say and do
all kinds of stuff that I know I'm not getting from the
father m because I didn't even check in with him.
>> Chris (36:47):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (36:48):
So it's like, how am I gonna say that that's what I did
if, like, really? So I'm
gonna end it off on that form of confession. Yeah.
>> Chris (36:57):
You know, it's just the idea of, like, sometimes we're like, man,
I keep struggling with this. You know, we're talking about what makes you
clean, sinful sinning. We struggle. But
like, a lot of times the quickest answer
is like, well, how's your prayer life?
Because if you're not getting strength from the source and you're just
trying to combat this on your own, you're gonna struggle.
(37:17):
It is a struggle to combat
sin all on your own.
Uh, if it wasn't a struggle or if it was something we
could do, we wouldn't need a savior.
>> Muireadhach (37:29):
Which is like, imagine there was an example of someone
that could be so bold.
>> Chris (37:33):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (37:34):
To like, go, what else do I have to
lose? Maybe I can go to this Jesus
and say, if you're willing, if you're willing, would you do
this?
>> Chris (37:43):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (37:44):
It would be crazy if there's like an example of that, that
with us in our struggles. If we could
go to this same Jesus and
go, if you're willing, make me clean
and imagine we had an example of seeing Jesus
heart.
>> Chris (37:58):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (37:59):
That he is willing.
>> Chris (38:00):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (38:01):
So much of the time.
>> Chris (38:02):
All the time. Yeah.
Uh, where are we headed next?
>> Muireadhach (38:06):
You tell me.
>> Chris (38:07):
What does it mean to walk in forgiveness?
>> Muireadhach (38:10):
Yeah, I had to ask you because I don't know.
>> Chris (38:12):
Yeah, yeah, that's a big one. I think it's going to be fun.
You know, again, we're pulling out these little things from
these discovering uh, a savior journey through
uh, you know, all the passages we're looking at, but
there's these big concepts sometimes in them that are,
you know, don't get really touched. And walking in
forgiveness is a huge one. I think a lot of times we as
(38:32):
christians we can somewhat
forgive. But like in
myself, how do I myself walk in the forgiveness God gave
me? Uh, that's a little different. That sometimes is harder,
but we'll touch on that next time. So I'm
Chris, I'm um, Muireadhach We are your church friends. Thanks for listening.
On a mission, on a quest.
On a search or discovering the truth?
Join us on our journey to
discovering a savior.
>> Chris (00:17):
All right. Welcome to your church, friends. I'm Chris.
>> Muireadhach (00:19):
I'm, uh, Muireadhach
>> Chris (00:21):
Jumping a little bit backwards,
looking at the guy with leprosy. Cause you talked about it
like he approached Jesus. Like, that was
illegal.
>> Muireadhach (00:31):
Right?
>> Chris (00:31):
You know, when you look at the laws of everything, that was the one thing. Cause, uh,
the one for me, what stood out was the
covered in leprosy. That's what I looked into. Some
translations are full of leprosy. That's why
I knew this was the Hansen disease and maybe not
the eczema one, where, like, this
is the big thing. This is an
advanced case. You know, Luke being a doctor,
(00:54):
saying, fool of, this is an advanced case. But him
approaching Jesus is illegal. Uh, in numbers.
It said, uh, the Lord said to Moses, command the
Israelites to send away from the camp anyone who's,
uh, who has a defiling skin disease or
discharge of any kind, or who is ceremonially unclean
because of a dead body. Send away male and female,
(01:14):
like. And send them outside the camp so they will not
defile the camp where I am dwelling. So the Israelites did so,
and they sent them outside the camp just as the. The Lord instructed Moses.
So this became a law. Like, this was a thing that, like, if you're
unclean, you're outside the camp, you're not
allowed in the city, you're not allowed in normal
israeli society. That was illegal.
Uh, but then when you look at this guy and we're talking
(01:37):
about what leprosy was
like, yeah, what did he have to lose?
So this is illegal that I'm in the city and I'm going to
Jesus.
>> Muireadhach (01:47):
You'Re gonna do kill me, right?
>> Chris (01:48):
I'm already going back to.
>> Muireadhach (01:49):
If. If he's going through the same mental stuff that we know
from modern stuff, he'd be like, yeah, what does he have to lose?
>> Chris (01:55):
Yeah, you can do it. You're gonna kill me. Uh, so, like, you
know, again he goes, the Lord, if you're willing to make me clean.
And again, yeah, you're talking about, like, restoration. You're talking about
restoring this person, like, healing what he
has. But there was no previous example of Jesus doing
that up to this point. You know, we're looking at, like, Jesus healing a leper.
It was people with diseases.
(02:15):
Um, but did it say
leper in some of the previous stuff or.
>> Muireadhach (02:19):
No, I was going to say Elijah
healed a leper. Right.
>> Chris (02:23):
Yeah. So that's. I was going there, there is
precedent.
>> Muireadhach (02:27):
For prophets healing lepers.
>> Chris (02:28):
Healing lepers. But like Jesus
doing this, there was none of that. Him coming to him was such
a step of bold
faith, which is one.
>> Muireadhach (02:38):
But based off of the precedent of like
well, the prophet way back when he did it. Here's a prophet
coming through. Like maybe this guy can do it too. Like I can see
how precedent would, would help in
that. Uh, yeah, I mean we see other people in Jesus life that come forward and ask
him to do stuff that they probably never heard of. But.
>> Chris (02:55):
Yeah, so the crazy thing was there's only two
people in the Bible with leprosy getting
healed. And it's uh, the
Elijah one. Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (03:04):
Naaman.
>> Chris (03:04):
Uh, Naaman. Hm.
>> Muireadhach (03:06):
Naaman.
>> Chris (03:06):
Naamanta. Uh, and then Miriam. Name him,
name him, name him. And then Miriam, who God struck with
leprosy, uh, because she was speaking out against
Moses.
>> Muireadhach (03:15):
Sorry, his name is Naaman.
>> Chris (03:17):
Yes.
>> Muireadhach (03:17):
I was making a joke.
>> Chris (03:20):
M. I was going with you just.
>> Muireadhach (03:21):
The way that you said it. I was like, oh, it sounded like.
>> Chris (03:23):
You thought that's what I was going with you.
>> Muireadhach (03:25):
Um.
>> Chris (03:26):
So uh, Miriam got it. God struck her as a
punishment because she was talking about Moses. And then Moses
prayed for her healing. And then seven days of isolation.
Uh, she was back in uh. And then the
other one was like seven times in the Jordan, right? Like dip in the
Jordan seven times. So the great lawgiver and the great
prophet, you know, there's, there is precedent
(03:46):
to it for him to
come to Jesus. He had to think like this
guy is better than at least on par with the lawgiver
and the prophet, if not more capable to do
it again, you know, in this situation,
what does he have to lose? Like, it's a huge
thing.
Um, the other thing I want to touch on was the touch part
(04:07):
aspect of it because we
saw in the other things it was just the
word. The demons.
>> Muireadhach (04:14):
Mhm.
>> Chris (04:14):
Just by his word gone. Sickness gone just by
speaking. Uh, but this one was touched.
And I like what nt Wright put out
here. Uh. Cause to me it's just like, it seemed more like out of
compassion, you know, because if you're a leper, what have you not
had in a long time? And if
you have an advanced case, you haven't, you know, no one's touched
you. But uh. Nt Wright put. Nobody had touched this
(04:37):
man. Uh, we may suppose for years. His
body was now riddled with the disease. It had clearly
been quite literally eating away at him for a long time. And now
Jesus reaches out and touched him. We can only
imagine the sense of awe and joy that that brought to the
mandev. Just like that alone, that,
you know, the touch happened and then the
healing happened. Um, and I thought that was pretty
(04:59):
cool. Uh, even looking at like, how pharisees, again,
going back to how they would treat people, uh, anyone
with skin, uh, diseases, you know, they were like,
they're sinners, right? Cause that's what their thought is.
You've got this, you're a sinner, you're an outcast. I
mean, the way they treated, even Samaritans and tax collectors
were pretty, you know, not
(05:19):
great. It was very elitist type
stuff. But to touch a leper.
And then I heard this and it just like, sparked some other things
in my head as looking at this. But like, the
Samaritan, the good Samaritan story
where, uh, the Levi and the.
>> Muireadhach (05:35):
Rabbit, but they wouldn't touch him. Cause they thought he was dead and.
>> Chris (05:38):
It would make them unclean.
>> Muireadhach (05:39):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Chris (05:40):
But the Samaritan was willing to take that risk. And I was like,
man, that's a huge. Why is no one
teaching that? That's a huge part of, like, that story.
>> Muireadhach (05:48):
Yeah, that's like the main reason why they were just
like, oh, yeah, I gotta keep to my
thing. Which is even weirder because it's not like
if you touch a corpse, you're disqualified.
It's just like, well, you gotta spend
like seven days and you gotta go through this ritual.
>> Chris (06:05):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (06:05):
So it's even like, I don't know. As I've heard, it taught in different
ways. And again, you kind of read into a bit, but it's just
like, if I go deal with this, it's gonna be annoying. It's
almost like when you hear from, like, I don't want to deal with the paperwork.
>> Chris (06:17):
Yes. Yeah. That's really what it comes down
to. Uh, so, you know, the fact that Jesus touched him,
he's reached out and touched someone who was unlovable and
untouchable. Um, and then you,
like, yeah, I was wanting to get to that too.
The. He touched him
and Jesus didn't become unclean,
it reversed.
>> Muireadhach (06:36):
Mhm.
>> Chris (06:37):
It was the reverse uno cardinal. Boom,
here it is. Now you're clean. Um, and he touches him and
he becomes clean. And it just, all of it works
differently. And I think that's where
for me, you start seeing the bigger picture of kind of this conversation.
What's the difference between unclean and what's the difference
between sin? Right. Um,
(06:57):
because once Jesus touches us,
that we're clean, you know, once he comes into
our lives, we're clean of that state. And
then, you know, because of our flesh, there's still those
struggles in there. But we're
clean. We can go before him. We can. We're
allowed to go into his presence. Um, there isn't
that like seven day outside
(07:20):
the camp thing? You know, forgiveness is there,
forgiveness is quicker. And uh, you
know, you kind of see that picture here getting
presented with Jesus
being able not just to,
because that's the big thing. The guy now he has to go do the levitical
thing, right? Go, go, um, present
yourself to the priest. So the priest has to look him over,
(07:42):
make sure he's clean, make sure there's no more disease on
him. And then the guy now gets to go
back to his family, gets to go back to his village, gets to go back to his
community. He's a fully accepted member
now. As if he had no
leprosy.
>> Muireadhach (07:57):
Mhm.
>> Chris (07:58):
And now he's a back part of that. So now not only is this
guy, in the eyes of the Pharisees,
morally clean, but now he's ceremonially
clean and he's back in the community. And Jesus does
that for us.
>> Muireadhach (08:10):
So I'm gonna jump back a
bit and then try and run up to catch up with you in the
conversation is when you're saying on the
touching side of things. I went back, I think we
touched on an earlier conversation. I think it was like when
Simon's, uh, mother in law and kind of we're talking about that. And then
there's the demons, which may have been part of
the next episode, maybe part of that episode.
(08:32):
But it says that Jesus laid his hands
and healed people. So he was laying his hands as
part of the healing. Just I don't
think it's part of the demon stuff. I don't think that that's part of
like exorcism practice. Could be
wrong. There might be other sections that has it. But as far
as the touching, it's. There was our already him
(08:53):
touching and healing people and doing that. But
even with that, I'm not saying that to take away from the
part that you and, uh, Mister Tom Wright came up with. As
far as dude hasn't had a hug in a while.
>> Chris (09:05):
That means a lot, dude.
>> Muireadhach (09:06):
It does. I think that I've ready even like,
I would be making up statistics, but feel
free for anybody to look up.
Like, how long your average
american male goes without
touch. It's pretty
crazy that like, men don't get affectionate
touch.
>> Chris (09:26):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (09:27):
And just like all the psychological studies that have been done on that. And
just like men who are part of society, look at what happens from
not getting touch. This one's like
far outside of that. Yeah, um,
just. There's that. But,
um, looking at
the thing of uncleanness, I know that
we've really talked on it, on unclean doesn't
(09:49):
equal sinfulness. M there is some
sin that could equal uncleanness,
sexual morality and idolatry to mainly highlight
those two. But. So
Leviticus is just like, hey, no, this is just like
ritually, ceremonially unclean. When you get
into like the prophets
Isaiah and otherwise, they are
(10:12):
very heavily drawing on the correlation
and using those examples that like, hey, your sin is
making you unclear. Like, the language does start to
get used.
Um, which I think just part of our conversation to
touch on that, of just like scripture itself
draws those connections of just like, yeah, you know what
that is. And sin is doing that
(10:34):
within you as an individual and within you as a people.
But then you brought it to the point and why that was on
my mind and why I want to touch on is because you were talking about Jesus and what
his restoration does. M
and to link back to why I was saying earlier
with Leviticus of like, you have
eleven through 15 just kind of put in here about what being
(10:56):
clean is, and then you get 16 is talking about the day of
atonement.
>> Chris (10:59):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (11:00):
And the big thing that we look at as far as Jesus being
a messiah is like, we look at
him offering atonement. Mhm. And if we
look at atonement really being on like this purifying
side of things, a lot of times I think that as modern
christians, we think like, oh, yeah, forgiveness, forgiveness of sins.
But atonement for the camp,
(11:21):
atonement for Israel, uh, it was
really part of this thing of like, on this
day, we're going to confess all the sins,
but what's going to happen is this power of
chaos and darkness and death that through
all of our actions has been like encroaching on the camp.
This day of atonement is going to be like
(11:41):
a force of life, pushing it all out
and cleansing everything again. That
like, where we are is like
God's land, it's holy land and it's clean and
it's pure from all these things. And
so when we see Jesus coming through and he's healing leprosy and he's
healing the woman with the issue of blood, and he's like
raising the dead back to life, all of these things that are like ritually
(12:04):
unclean but he's also going and forgiving
sin. Like, I think that the
bigger picture there,
because as we're saying, if you're
ceremonially unclean, you can't come into God's presence.
Mhm. Has nothing to do with, well, you're a sinful person.
You can't come into God's presence. There's a thing of, like,
uncleanness. And when Jesus is offering
(12:25):
purity and cleanness in that sense, but
also forgiveness, like, what's the end
result of that? Like, you can come into God's presence
and it's not a thing that I know I'm jumping
ahead or backwards. I don't even know how or if we'd cover it. But it's
like, really the end goal. What Jesus is
coming to do isn't to allow us to go to the temple that's in
Jerusalem. It's that we are the
(12:48):
temple and God's spirit comes into us.
>> Chris (12:50):
Uh, right.
>> Muireadhach (12:52):
So that's where being made clean really
matters. Because if you're looking at like, oh,
I had a nocturnal mission, I can't go
to the temple for like, seven days or whatever it
is. Like, I can't go into God's presence, and I'm cut off from all
of that. To
the spirit of God is living inside of you.
>> Chris (13:13):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (13:13):
Like, what Jesus is bringing,
it's just so far beyond anything that's even,
like, of what could possibly be on the radar
of, like, the conversations of just like, well,
yeah. What's. What's the proper thing for leprosy?
>> Chris (13:28):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (13:29):
You know what I mean? Which why I'm bringing that in is like,
we're tracking with Jesus on a journey, and I'm kind
of looking towards, because I kind of already know some of the destination that
we're heading towards. And just like, right ahead. Yeah.
Been hearing about it for a long time. Spoiler alerts
it's like we're watching the chosen. It's just
like, is it called a spoiler
(13:49):
if, uh, kind of been written down for 2000
years?
>> Chris (13:53):
It's a horrible show. You create a show and your main character dies at the
end.
>> Muireadhach (13:57):
Gave it away. Yeah, but in that,
that's where I'm looking at these things and like, cool. So we're
on this journey, we're discovering a savior, and it's like, okay.
He's dealing with leprosy, he's dealing with uncleanness, he's dealing
with sinfulness. But looking towards,
like, is that all,
you know, like, oh, cool. Not that, oh, that's all, like, this
(14:18):
guy with leprosy got to go to his family and everything that you just said, it's like that's
a completely changed life.
>> Chris (14:22):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (14:23):
But Jesus offers even so much more than that.
>> Chris (14:26):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (14:26):
Which I think is amazing.
>> Chris (14:28):
The term restoration really does encompass more than
just what this restoration
presents. Right.
>> Muireadhach (14:34):
There's a huge image of it and.
>> Chris (14:36):
It was making me think too. Again, maybe skipping ahead, maybe
not, but like, there are moments when Jesus
heals someone and then tells them,
go and sin no more.
>> Muireadhach (14:46):
Mhm.
>> Chris (14:47):
You don't see this here. You don't see that what you see
is go present. Don't. First don't tell anyone. Right.
Because being known that you're the messiah is going to get you
killed. So that time has not yet come.
So it's don't tell anyone. But it's then
go present yourself to the priest, make the sacrifice. When the time
comes that you need to make the sacrifice to the temple, that's
(15:07):
when you go and you make the sacrifice of the temple. Whatever wealth
you have, whether it's the two doves or the bigger thing,
but you go make the sacrifices that are required,
present yourself to the priest and then that's
it. But it isn't followed with it, uh,
and go and sin no more. So this is a good comparison
to like, well, what was different between him and the other
(15:28):
people. Um, because clearly if he's telling
someone, go and sin no more, there must have been something
inside that Washington,
you know, like the sinfully wise, morally.
Um, but yeah, there's a huge difference. But either
way, what does he do? He restores it all. You know, the
work on the cross did do that. It was a
(15:48):
restoration, not just to make us
ceremonially clean, but also now we can be morally
clean as well.
>> Muireadhach (15:55):
And that's having part of this conversation and camping
out a little bit in Leviticus or even touching on like, I
just don't think that uh, for modern
people who are largely been in a
christian world where so much of this has been like taken
care of for 2000 years, that like
we even care or appreciate
being made clean. Mhm. You know what I mean?
(16:17):
It's just like Leviticus. That's boring. Why would I
ever read that? It doesn't make sense. Also,
it doesn't really apply. Right. Also, and you know,
it's just like to not realize
that big part of Jesus's life
and ministry and death and resurrection, what has been
accomplished, like, you know, it's just like, I, um, don't know,
unappreciative of it, because you don't even know what it is.
>> Chris (16:39):
Yeah. A lot of times when you look at even, I mean, the old testament
enlarged, there's, like, I think sections that are more.
People are more happy with m. You know, you got your psalms.
People love psalms and proverbs and stuff like that.
Um, sorry, just.
>> Muireadhach (16:53):
People love psalms. It's just like, have you read them all?
God? Kill them.
>> Chris (16:57):
Yeah, kill them big, kill them hard,
knock out their teeth. Um, but,
like. And, like, Genesis gets its genesis, and half
of exodus gets its fame. But everything
else after that and in between, like, no one wants to read. No one wants to read
about the Israelites having to wipe out a nation.
No one wants. Or groups of people.
No one wants to read numbers. Cause it's just list of
(17:20):
people and stuff like that. Deuteronomy is a
repetitive thing of what you've already readde.
>> Muireadhach (17:25):
Um, chronicles.
>> Chris (17:26):
Chronicles are gonna put you to sleep for the most
part. And I'm saying a lot of this
sarcastically. Uh, Leviticus is like, that's just the
rules. One, that's the one that tells me I can't have
two different fabrics on, touching each other and stitched in.
That's the one where. Wait, do we follow this now? Do we
make sacrifices? Do we not make sacrifices? Why don't we make
sacrifices anymore? Yes.
(17:49):
Pork ribs. Uh, the good ribs.
>> Muireadhach (17:51):
The other ones don't count as ribs.
>> Chris (17:53):
The mcRib. Can I have the McRib? When it sees Nolan
out? Um, you know, that's what it gets
looked at. That's what it's viewed as. Um. But you
are missing when you don't read Leviticus.
A good chunk of understanding.
>> Muireadhach (18:08):
Sorry.
A couple off topic things, and I'll bring it back in. But the kids
summer thing was today, and they were doing. They had the
leaders go up and they were doing, like, sword drills. So it's like, cool. We're gonna
tell you a Bible verse. You need to, like, put your Bible on your head, pull it
down. Whoever finds it first, right? And they're doing, like, a knockout
challenge. And one of the verses was in Amos.
And I heard someone next to me, like, Amos, like, where is that?
(18:29):
And I was like, yeah, we have an episode on that if
you want to go listen to, uh, our forgotten books of the Bible series.
Like, there's Amos. There's a few episodes on that.
>> Chris (18:37):
He does more than just cookies.
>> Muireadhach (18:38):
And then one of them was Philemon. And then someone's
like, how did you pronounce that? Like, what is
that? And I was like, we have an episode on that you can get.
Just when you talk about all these things, they're like, oh, yeah, the Old Testament, outside of, like,
the popular stuff, tends not to get.
>> Chris (18:52):
I mean, that's the Bible in general. Right? Like, outside of the popular stuff.
Philemon. I mean, most people would just understand it
as Philemon.
>> Muireadhach (18:58):
Yeah, it's a weird Pokemon.
>> Chris (19:00):
Yeah. Gotta catch them all.
>> Muireadhach (19:02):
Um, yeah.
In tracking and all right, so leviticus has
a rulebook. I think that's an important thing to bring
to Jesus as well. Mhm. Is that
Jesus? Yes. He's touching someone with
leprosy, which
unclean. Right. But he does it because
look at what the result. Like, I don't know. Did he touch a person
(19:25):
with leprosy? Because it seems like that person doesn't have leprosy. Like, you know,
it's kind of a thing of just like, well, what's, you know, where's the
fault there? But then also the mercy, how you said, like, it's
illegal. That person shouldn't have come up. But we see time and time again that
Jesus is just like, no. Like, mercy
is important in the law.
>> Chris (19:41):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (19:42):
And that's what he comes against. The Pharisees. Like, you guys are all concerned about
tides. You're forgetting about mercy and righteousness. Like, uh, you're not
getting. The important thing is important. So even there
of seeing, like, it's not that he's
ignoring the law, he's very much keeping it.
Even when it comes to cool. You've been healed. Go
do the proper thing, right? Go to the priest, do the
(20:02):
proper sacrifice, and do it. Like, Jesus very much
keeps to all of this Old Testament stuff. Like, for
Jesus, Leviticus is super important, which
is a thing that I get into conversations a lot with people who,
like, disagree with a lot of the Old Testament,
but they love Jesus. I'm like, jesus had every
opportunity to point out anything wrong with the
(20:22):
Old Testament. You know, if it got, like,
distorted or there was something going on or any of that stuff going on, like, jesus
had every opportunity to point that out. He didn't
attack the Old Testament in the way that modern scholars want
to attack the Old Testament. He's attacking, how are they applying
it?
>> Chris (20:37):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (20:38):
He was like, hey, what they're saying to do is good, but just don't
live it how they're living it. But like, the words are
legit.
>> Chris (20:44):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (20:44):
You know what I mean?
>> Chris (20:45):
Yeah. Like the tithing and all the stuff in the extra minute. Like, none of
that was wrong, but it was like, what was inside like, uh,
the heart of it all. That's what made them
unclean. Yeah. Yeah. I really do
think it's a big chunk of understanding. Even
this, like this story in the Bible,
this moment that Luke hits of knowing the
(21:05):
levitical laws because it doesn't pop
out of all the things that are happening,
covered in leprosy. This guy is like advanced
state, incurable even in today's
probably society where we at least could stop some of it, right.
He's just walking dead.
Mhm. Breaks, um, the law because
he comes to Jesus and then Jesus touches him. And
(21:28):
now he's clean. Like all this. What's clean, what's unclean
thing. And I really like how you
put it together, like the two sons of
Aaron story. Then all of a sudden, here's what makes
you unclean and clean and what allows you to
come into the presence of God and what doesn't. And how you can
get back into the presence of God.
>> Muireadhach (21:47):
Mhm.
>> Chris (21:47):
And then it picks up like, okay, the day of
atonement. And a lot of things like, I
don't think you even mentioned it, but when the day of atonement,
uh, the priest put his hand on the sheep,
right? That went out. The sheep that carries the sins went out to
Azazel.
>> Muireadhach (22:03):
The goat. Right?
>> Chris (22:04):
The goat, yeah. He touches him and it goes out.
>> Muireadhach (22:06):
It's like goat or a sheep. It's a goat, right?
>> Chris (22:07):
Uh, it's one or the other. But he puts his hand on it.
>> Muireadhach (22:10):
Must be a goat, those things.
>> Chris (22:11):
Look, I think it's a goat because they send the goat back to the goat
God and escape goat demon thing. Uh,
escape goat.
>> Muireadhach (22:17):
Yeah, that's what it is.
>> Chris (22:18):
Uh, but the touch, you know, to
me is what there's this parallels of like the
touch is what the sin went out and then,
uh, the other one is
sacrificed. But
again, understanding sacrifice, and this I just learned really,
myself, is like understanding sacrifice wasn't just that we
(22:39):
killed an animal and burned it on an altar, it was
that they ate and consumed it. And the idea is that
they're eating and consuming it with God. So then
Jesus being that, right, that new thing for
us, that cleanses us, that makes us clean, is
when we take communion, when we do something like that, we are
participating and a, ah, cleansing in
(22:59):
a sense.
>> Muireadhach (23:00):
And even so much of, I know that we're going on all
kinds of stuff, but devotonement, uh,
right. The one that is sacrificed,
it's not like, oh, killing was a
punishment that needed to happen. Like
the death was a means to an end for the
blood. Like, the blood is where the
life is, right?
(23:22):
And like, that's how you get the blood. Like, you know what I mean? Which
is where one of the things in the Old Testament and in the New Testament is like,
you don't eat or drink blood. That's a no
no. That's demonic, right.
There may or may not be plenty of groups within
America and globally that, uh, do weird
stuff with blood. Yeah, still, like
(23:42):
big time. It's not conspiracy. It
happens. Christians don't do that. Like, there is
power within the blood which comes with like, jesus on the
cross. Why we sing all those old hymns and the new
songs and everything else. It's like the blood having the
importance for the cleansing. Like we read in the book of
Hebrews that he goes and he puts the blood, like, in
the real temple, in the holy, like, you know, in the heavenly
(24:05):
temple.
And that's what makes things clean forever, that we're not
repeating all of these m offerings. So now that's
going off topic.
>> Chris (24:12):
And that's the thing about the death of Jesus. It's the blood,
right?
>> Muireadhach (24:16):
Mhm.
>> Chris (24:17):
The one goat doesn't, it's not killed.
The sin goat isn't killed.
>> Muireadhach (24:21):
I mean, it dies.
>> Chris (24:23):
It dies, yeah. Out in the desert, in the wilderness with the
sin demon. But it's not like
sacrifice.
>> Muireadhach (24:29):
Mhm.
>> Chris (24:29):
So when we look at what Jesus is doing, this
is always hard for me because it's such a
thing that our church grows up, the protestant
churches. Jesus took on
our sin and died for our sin. And that's
atonement. But it's getting with like
what the eastern orthodox look at it like. No, that's not what
was being presented there. Like,
(24:52):
what they're talking about is that Jesus blood,
his cleansing ness, is what washes us
and makes us clean. He's not taking on our sin in a
sense, as much as he's,
uh. This image touched us and made
us clean. Because he's clean.
>> Muireadhach (25:07):
Yeah.
>> Chris (25:08):
And it's, it's a hard thing because I wrestle with what I've had grown
up knowing and hearing this new thought.
>> Muireadhach (25:13):
It's the cross and the
gospel is. I always think of a multi, I use
the word multifaceted a lot. Which.
Multifaceted. It's like you look like at a diamond. It's got
all the faces and like, as you turn it, there's different faces to it and
you can see the different beauty and the gleaming and everything through that and the clarity
through it. And like
(25:33):
scripture talks about, like
he was, who was without sin being made sin,
which I know that looking at eastern orthodoxy, they'll
send to say that Paul, uh, was using shorthand for
him being made. Sin was shorthand for he was being made into the
sin offering.
>> Chris (25:49):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (25:50):
Rather than, you know, protestant and
otherwise, like understanding of like. No, no, he was
actually taking on the sin. Because when you're looking at,
well, can it all be, can everything
about the cross be summed up in a direct parallel
to the day of atonement? It's like, I don't think so. Like
other stuff was going, like, that's an image of it and he was
making atonement. But I do think that there's other stuff
(26:13):
within the conversation that it's hard because just
like, well, it's this or it's this or it's this, or just
like, well, yeah,
it's, those are all images of what's happening
that if it's kind of like anything where,
um, it's like when you try and hear people talk about the Trinity and they use like
little examples of stuff and it's like eventually all of it breaks the
water ice. Like, yeah. Or, you know, it's just
(26:35):
like eventually analogies break and
images break. And when you, when I look at like atonement,
Jesus that did create, like, he did achieve
atonement, that might not be the fully correct theological word, but,
you know, atonement happened through Jesus to say it.
Um, but many things happen through that,
right? Like day of atonement, I don't think
(26:56):
achieved resurrection
for anybody
yet. Jesus achieved resurrection through the cross. You know what I
mean? Like there's, there's a lot of other stuff.
>> Chris (27:06):
There's a lot of layers to it.
>> Muireadhach (27:08):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Chris (27:08):
Onions to wrap all this up.
>> Muireadhach (27:11):
Wait, I have one more thing.
>> Chris (27:12):
Oh, uh, do you.
>> Muireadhach (27:13):
I didn't get to it and it's gonna be a side note. And then you can wrap
it up in, in the way that it should be, uh.
Uh, going back to some of those things of being
unclean, like the, the food and
the not touching corpses and
uh, the sexual stuff going on.
Mhm. Is an
added layer to
(27:34):
God saying that those things were unclean
and not welcome into the full presence
of the temple or the
tabernacle when it was a tabernacle,
is that those
things couldn't get misused
and appropriated towards the worship of
goddesse. What you see
(27:56):
is, um, in pagan cultures
is that they've got like temple prostitutes in various ways.
>> Chris (28:01):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
>> Muireadhach (28:01):
So there's like, no, like, mhm. Sex isn't part of the
thing. You've got, um, like,
ancestor worship and various things happening on that.
It's like, no dead bodies. Like, that's not part of what's going on.
And, um,
just blood, things related to blood. It's just like, nope. That's
like, it was just
the layers of preventative of, like, this isn't how
(28:24):
you're going to approach me. You're not going to use these things
that the pagan nations are using.
Like, you're coming to me in the way that I'm prescribing.
>> Chris (28:33):
Yeah. This is what separates worship to me from
worship to the other gods, which.
>> Muireadhach (28:38):
Was a huge thing in Leviticus. Like, well, what was the purpose for all this? It
was just like, that you would be a holy people. Holy
meaning set apart, right? You're gonna be different than all the
other nations. So, like, here's some stuff that,
like, outside of everything about, like, oh, well, you're not fully made whole. And,
like, blood goes out and everything. It's just like, this is gonna mark you as
being different, right? Because guess what? This is real different.
(28:59):
Like, and it even prevents you from, like, oh, all of
those pagan, uh,
nations, they're going and offering sacrifices to their God.
A lot of times it was gonna be pig. You don't get to eat
that. Like, it's a preventative measure even from you joining in
with doing that. And then
I love, this is just one last thing on, um, like the.
(29:19):
I think that some of what we,
what I almost
wish that there was something of this train
of thought of keeping clean with some form of rule
is because of this. And I found it when I was
studying, is
in keeping these
day to day laws. Like, it wasn't the responsibility
(29:42):
of the high priest. These laws that were in
Leviticus were disseminated and told to the people. And it was,
uh, the heads of the household, the heads of the patriarch, like, family
and everything that was like, they were keeping these things. And it was a
willingness and a desire to stay clean and to
keep yourself clean. But it's like, in the small
things of, uh, oh, I'm not going to eat
shellfish.
(30:04):
It's every time you're coming to a meal,
you're thinking about, how am I keeping myself holy before
goddess. You know, anytime you're going through
natural things in life, you're going,
oh, I need to keep myself holy and
clean before God. And it's in these small,
seemingly mundane things that like, yeah, every month for a
(30:24):
woman, like, you're going to go through that process it has nothing to do with you being sinful,
but it's always on the forefront of the mind that in
everyday circumstances, how am I keeping
myself clean to where, like, when you're so focused on
like taking care of that,
like, yeah, why am
I gonna go out there and do that crazy sin?
(30:45):
Just how tightly it keeps your mind locked
onto staying clean before
God. I
appreciate that. And I know that at times that's where I've
wanted there to almost be like a rule book in the New
Testament, because it's like, just tell me what I'm supposed to
do. Give me a framework to lock into
(31:05):
that. Like, I can know that I'm really putting it into
practice. So, but it is something
that I think
there's not a leviticus in the New Testament,
but in finding practices
to keep yourself clean and, um, to be
seeking after him in those ways to put practices into your
(31:26):
everyday life, to be pursuing, uh,
I don't know, I just like that concept.
>> Chris (31:31):
Yeah, it's crazy how like the law was given and
how quick, like the wheels fell off of that thing.
>> Muireadhach (31:36):
Oh, yeah.
>> Chris (31:37):
How quickly they were like, here's how you keep yourself clean. And they're like,
and then they did all of this stuff. And then the
Old Testament is just littered with people
not following through from judges to kings
to, you know what we should do?
>> Muireadhach (31:50):
We should sacrifice a pig in the temple,
right?
>> Chris (31:53):
Yeah, it's just like as quickly as they could, they did it.
Uh, the wrap up I have for this is verse, uh,
16. I think I'm going to read a little bit
up front of that, though. It says, uh, yet the news about him
spread all the more so the crowds of people
came to hear Jesus and to be healed of their
sickness. But Jesus often withdrew to
lonely places and prayed. And I love this. Nt
(32:16):
wright put it this way. Uh, he said
that, uh, this would be his source of strength.
And Luke mentioning this going off
to pray in
solitary places is where Jesus would
draw his strength to do what he did, to draw the strength,
uh, to keep on mission. And uh, I didn't
put it down in my notes, but I just remembered from reading the
(32:38):
commentary that, uh, he even
phrased it as like, where are you drawing
your strength? Because there are people in your lives
that needs to be touched with the loving kindness
that Jesus touched this guy. And if you're not drawing your
strength from God, you're not going to meet that need to touch someone
who's untouchable. Uh, and I thought that was like just a
(32:59):
cool way he summed up his little section.
I get it from, um, what
is.
>> Muireadhach (33:05):
It like Luke ferver?
>> Chris (33:07):
Yeah, Luke for everyone, his everyone series. And because he just
breaks it down with stories and everything. And I just sometimes
really love the way he paints the picture of what's happening,
and that was a good one. Uh, but it just makes you think, you know,
we're talking about what makes you clean, what makes you unclean, what makes
you a, uh, sinner and what makes you not. And
kind of tying it all into the idea of like, hey,
(33:27):
jesus went out, you know, because a lot of people are like, well,
if Jesus was around today, who would he hang out with? He would hang out with
the x, y and z, uh,
whatever sin category or group of people you want to
fill in there. But every time he did it
was with the, the goal of making them
clean, presentable, clean and sin no
more. Clean and sin no more. Not just go and hang out with
(33:50):
them and be buddies with them. Um, and I feel like
for us as christians, knowing where our source is,
that putting ourselves in those places
to touch someone who may not be touchable in the
sense, you know, the christian realm,
that if we don't have the right source, uh,
then when we get there, we might become unclean
ourselves, uh, it might defile us
(34:12):
with our thoughts and how we think. But the idea is that we
go to spread the good news and the gospel to
help other people come into this, to make them
clean, um, and be part of it, so
that they can go into God's presence, not just
eternally, but here on earth where we can be
in a state of like, hey, I'm in the presence of
God. Like you said, those, those
(34:34):
daily actions, what am I doing? Is this keeping
me in God's presence? Can this keep me in the
presence of God as far as like how I'm
acting, living and what I'm doing. Um, but yeah, that was
really it. I just really liked how nt rice phrased that all
up, that little small added to the
story.
>> Muireadhach (34:53):
Yeah, there's a fun thing in looking
at biblical stories. It's like a lot of times you're
like, oh, align myself
with a hero.
>> Chris (35:03):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (35:04):
Oh, well, Jesus went and did it. So if that's where Jesus is doing,
like, where are you doing it? Mhm. But also sometimes like, you should be doing
that, especially when it comes to Jesus because like he's
modeling for us what to do. Mhm. So he's like,
can I do everything that Jesus did? Uh,
evidently not. Like, uh,
especially some things that only he could do, like going to the cross
for us and, you know, performing the atonement.
(35:27):
Um, achieving the atonement.
Atonement coming through him. He's the only one. I
just, I don't know about the way I'm phrasing that. I just feel like someone's gonna be
like, heresy. Ah.
>> Chris (35:38):
Um, well, if they made it this far,
they've heard Enoch, so.
>> Muireadhach (35:42):
No, it's a new listener. Um,
but I think that that's really one of those things of him drawing a
way to be with the father
that if
Jesus,
I don't know if it's more appropriate to say wanted to or had
to do that.
Yeah. Like, why do I think that
(36:05):
I can go without doing that? Because
it's either if he was like, having to do
that, then
don't I? Mhm. Uh, or if he was
just wanting to, shouldn't I?
Either way that I cut that is like,
I don't think that's just a. Oh, well, he was on his special mission, so he
(36:25):
had to be with the father in order to do that. I really
think that that's a modeling thing. I'm glad that
you brought it back into that because
he didn't say or do anything that he didn't get from the father.
>> Chris (36:37):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (36:38):
And honestly speaking, I say and do
all kinds of stuff that I know I'm not getting from the
father m because I didn't even check in with him.
>> Chris (36:47):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (36:48):
So it's like, how am I gonna say that that's what I did
if, like, really? So I'm
gonna end it off on that form of confession. Yeah.
>> Chris (36:57):
You know, it's just the idea of, like, sometimes we're like, man,
I keep struggling with this. You know, we're talking about what makes you
clean, sinful sinning. We struggle. But
like, a lot of times the quickest answer
is like, well, how's your prayer life?
Because if you're not getting strength from the source and you're just
trying to combat this on your own, you're gonna struggle.
(37:17):
It is a struggle to combat
sin all on your own.
Uh, if it wasn't a struggle or if it was something we
could do, we wouldn't need a savior.
>> Muireadhach (37:29):
Which is like, imagine there was an example of someone
that could be so bold.
>> Chris (37:33):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (37:34):
To like, go, what else do I have to
lose? Maybe I can go to this Jesus
and say, if you're willing, if you're willing, would you do
this?
>> Chris (37:43):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (37:44):
It would be crazy if there's like an example of that, that
with us in our struggles. If we could
go to this same Jesus and
go, if you're willing, make me clean
and imagine we had an example of seeing Jesus
heart.
>> Chris (37:58):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (37:59):
That he is willing.
>> Chris (38:00):
Mhm.
>> Muireadhach (38:01):
So much of the time.
>> Chris (38:02):
All the time. Yeah.
Uh, where are we headed next?
>> Muireadhach (38:06):
You tell me.
>> Chris (38:07):
What does it mean to walk in forgiveness?
>> Muireadhach (38:10):
Yeah, I had to ask you because I don't know.
>> Chris (38:12):
Yeah, yeah, that's a big one. I think it's going to be fun.
You know, again, we're pulling out these little things from
these discovering uh, a savior journey through
uh, you know, all the passages we're looking at, but
there's these big concepts sometimes in them that are,
you know, don't get really touched. And walking in
forgiveness is a huge one. I think a lot of times we as
(38:32):
christians we can somewhat
forgive. But like in
myself, how do I myself walk in the forgiveness God gave
me? Uh, that's a little different. That sometimes is harder,
but we'll touch on that next time. So I'm
Chris, I'm um, Muireadhach We are your church friends. Thanks for listening.
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