April 3, 2024 • 55 mins
Where did baptism come from? It’s not practiced in the Old Testament, but then you enter the New Testament and there is John baptizing in the Jordan. Where did he get the idea to baptize people in the Jordan for the forgiveness of sins, and what was the purpose of Jesus being baptized? Join Your Church Friends as they closely examine the origins of baptism and why it's an essential component in discovering a Savior.
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>> Chris (00:00):
All right, welcome to your church friends podcast. I'm Chris.
>> Muireadhach (00:02):
I'm, Muireadhach
>> Chris (00:03):
So we're talking about baptism today.
>> Muireadhach (00:04):
We sure are.
>> Chris (00:05):
And, have you been baptized?
>> Muireadhach (00:07):
A couple times.
>> Chris (00:08):
Couple times? All right. Want to talk about one of them at least?
>> Muireadhach (00:11):
Yeah, baptized when I was
five at the church that we're currently at.
>> Chris (00:17):
Oh, that's cool.
>> Muireadhach (00:17):
By our senior pastor, when he wasn't the senior pastor,
so weird tie ins with all of that. But
basically, yeah, I was at, like
a. I think it was a vacation Bible school. They did the whole thing
of, hey, you want to accept Jesus and what all that looks like?
Like. Yeah. And it made sense to me at the time and moving forward,
and one of the kids leaders met with me just like, here's kind of what
(00:38):
baptism is. Are you for it? And I don't remember being five, but
apparently, you know, I was just as profound back then. And so
they were super impressed and said, yes, we can baptize this child.
I have a vhs tape of.
>> Chris (00:48):
It of you being baptized.
>> Muireadhach (00:49):
Dude, Ken, big old beard, had the long
hair going on. Remember when I had my beard and long hair?
>> Chris (00:54):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Muireadhach (00:55):
I want to say he pulled it off better, though. yeah, but, yeah, so that was
baptized at five. then as I've sprinkled my
testimony throughout the episodes, all of that
happened. Then coming back to the church, I felt
like, yeah. Having a. As
I look at it now is probably rededication. I know at the
time, I was like, I don't know if I really
knew what I was doing the first time. So I felt
(01:17):
like, here's my actual commitment. So I'm taking this step,
but as I look at it over time, m. I'm like, no, God's been
faithful, even though I wasn't.
But, brought me back in as more of a commitment time.
>> Chris (01:28):
Yeah, Remy was baptized, like,
maybe seven. No, couldn't
be seven or eight. Probably around eight or nine. M.
but even then it might have been eight. Even
then I was like, you know, church nowadays
is like, hey, as soon as a kid says they accept Jesus, get them
baptized, like, baptized as quickly as possible. I just wanted the
(01:50):
candy, right, basically, yeah. And then
Reid's been asking about it, and he's eight now,
and I'm like, no, not yet. I don't think you're ready.
because through the time Remy's been baptized
till now. Like, my
understanding of baptism has changed what it really
means, you know, when we get told, like, oh, it's just symbolism
and this and that, which we'll get into a little bit more with this episode. But
(02:13):
for me, I was baptized around the age of
15 at the church I was going to in
the pastor's pool, and it was by one of my mentors. He
baptized me. but it was cool because he was also
being re baptized, and he was, like, in his forties
at the time. doing it. So, I always thought that was a really
cool thing, and it's made me think as of late, you know, just the same
thing. Like, you're saying the rededication
(02:35):
thing. Like, if maybe. Maybe that's a
thing that should happen. Maybe I should do that.
But baptism is weird because
it's just there, right?
Like, it just starts off. And we have, with Luke,
we're. We're looking at just two
verses today, and it's when, all the people were
baptized. John was, Jesus was baptized, too. And as he was
(02:58):
praying, heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit
descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And
a voice came from heaven. You are my
son, whom I love with you. I am well
pleased. And that's basically everything
we're going to look at. But it just made me think, like,
we're discovering a savior. Where did
baptizing come from?
>> Muireadhach (03:19):
Right, which, looking at last
time, we were talking about John the forerunner. John
the Baptist. Right. So he was out there
baptizing people.
>> Chris (03:28):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (03:28):
I know we kind of talked about it, but we were talking more about John, and, you know,
what he had going on. But, yeah, then coming to this point of, I was
saying, discovering a savior and you have Jesus coming
and getting baptized, and.
Yeah, it really is a thing. Like, where is
baptism? Like, what is this? Why did John start
doing it? Huh? Huh? Right?
>> Chris (03:48):
Yeah, it's like, where did John pick this up at? Where does he. Where does
John go? Like, dunking people in water? This is
the new thing. And, yeah, that's. That's
where the big confusion comes in, because, honestly,
it wasn't until maybe last year or
two years ago when we were talking in, ah, my whole
christian life, I'm just sitting here like, yeah, baptism's the thing we
(04:09):
do. And you said, where did it come from?
And I was like, the Bible,
John. But really, why
was this the new practice? Why was this the new thing?
>> Muireadhach (04:21):
Yeah. I love those questions. Yeah, I was
just like, hey, you know how you're living your life right now?
Think about this.
>> Chris (04:28):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (04:28):
And then I'll just walk away.
>> Chris (04:29):
Yeah. Why did you do that to me? Which sparked the whole
reason of why my son isn't baptized yet.
>> Muireadhach (04:34):
Yeah. Which, quick side note, it was the same
thing for me with Casey. Cause I knew that she
had, like, accepted Jesus and was like, okay. Like she
understood something there. And Delilah and I just talking
through it and like, hey, when she's
ready, she'll take this step, which was
really just last year. So that was like seven
years in between.
>> Chris (04:55):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (04:55):
As a parent, you know, trying to get in Bible studies and
praying and asking questions and doing the whole thing. And it's kind of
like, should I be pressuring more? Like, what should this look
like? But it really felt like the timing was right.
It's like, okay, I'm good with that
clarification we're talking about with our kids.
Right. If you're an adult and looking at this like, it's your
responsibility to, fast forward that whole situation,
(05:17):
because, like, it is an act of obedience, which we'll get into.
>> Chris (05:20):
Yeah. And with everything. I mean, we're talking also about
baptism from, our perspective and our
understanding. But throughout church and culture and even today,
there's people who look at baptism differently, where it's
sprinkling of water is okay. Infant baptism is
okay. Where pouring water over the head is what they
do.
>> Muireadhach (05:38):
I, mean, we put them in once, put them in thrice.
>> Chris (05:40):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (05:41):
Or do what I did twice and get everyone all mad at
me.
>> Chris (05:44):
Yeah. and where the didache had it, like, it has to
be running water. And if you don't have running water, then do it this way and do
it that way. So it is this, like,
I don't want to say convoluted, but like this jumbled
up idea of baptism. And we really,
other than this portion of scripture, we don't
know where it came from.
>> Muireadhach (06:03):
Kind of, kind of, yeah. Even
doing some studying. And it's funny because one of the first commentaries that
I opened up, he was like, so looking
at this, this probably came from.
I'm like, you're the experts and you're gonna lead with a.
Probably came from, which is. Cause
it's true 2000 years ago. And you really have, looking at the
(06:24):
old Testament, there is no clear
baptism, so to speak. There's allusions to things
that even in the new jet testament, they'll call back
on, but it's not quite the same
thing, really. What it seems like the
closest thing though that would happen would be the
ritualistic washings that people
would go through. Right. So we've talked a few times on the show
(06:45):
about being ritualistically
unclean.
Right. Which isn't necessarily a, ah, moral
failing. It was just like, what's the word I'm looking
for? Purity laws. Yeah, purity laws. And like ritualistically,
like holy and all that going on.
So it was more to do with washings having to
do with that, which if you were to look at the
(07:05):
words that were being used, if you took like the
greek version of the Old Testament, you could find like the
word baptizo, which is baptism. In
relation to those kinds of things.
>> Chris (07:15):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (07:15):
So they're looking at, okay, there's a ritual washing.
Looks like that kind of evolved into
also, again, it's not in the Bible, but when you're looking back at the
old practices, it does seem like there was
one of those ritualistic washings that would happen
when a gentile would come into
faith in Judaism.
>> Chris (07:35):
Right, right. Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (07:36):
Which is pretty close to baptism. Right. So you can see
this progression going on to where John
as a jew, just like, okay, well here's the thing that happens.
But yeah, if you're gonna go with
everything that explains the Bible is in the Bible. This
is one of those things where you gotta go.
>> Chris (07:53):
No, yeah, with the
purity law too. that was to make themselves
clean again so they would be allowed back into the community. So
when you're unclean, you're excommunicated from
the community, you have to go sit outside. And then once you're, you've
washed and it covered the gauntlet from
mold, on like your fabric, your clothing,
(08:14):
in.
>> Muireadhach (08:14):
Your house, you got some mildew. Mildew. You gotta go get clean.
>> Chris (08:17):
Yep. infectious diseases. and you know,
the way they described them, it wasn't always just leprosy.
If it was just like a red bump on your body, ingrown hair, maybe
at the time it was like, we gotta wash it and check to make.
>> Muireadhach (08:28):
Sure you're not generally being a woman.
>> Chris (08:31):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (08:32):
Every month.
>> Chris (08:33):
Yeah. Right. You were unclean. So is the Washington. Allow yourself
back into the community. I have this too. It's an exodus.
so this is when the priests go to, the
altar and it said, then the Lord said to Moses,
make a bronze, basin with its bronze
stand for washing. Place it between the tent of meeting and
the altar and put water in it. Aaron and his sons
(08:53):
are to wash their hands and feet with water from it.
Whenever they enter the tent of meeting, they shall
wash, with water so that they will not die.
Also, when they approach the altar to minister by
presenting a food offering to the Lord, they shall wash their hands and
feet so they shall not die. this will
be a lasting ordinance for Aaron and his descendants for generations
to come. So here we see this kind of idea of like this
(09:15):
washing, to go before
God in a sense, to get into the altar. and so the priests
had to do this. And so baptism in the same way you could look at, as
washing and purifying. I'm m trying to remember off the top of my
head, so if anyone remembers, you can correct me freely.
But I don't know if this is before or
after Aaron's first two sons died, who
(09:36):
approached the altar incorrectly
and then passed, away.
And this is Exodus what? this is Exodus
30. And I'm trying to remember if that was in one of the
other books, not in Exodus, because then the
timelines all kind of. You gotta, you gotta do some.
>> Muireadhach (09:53):
Yeah, off the top of my head, I'm not sure.
>> Chris (09:55):
But in that story alone,
they, they approach the altar
impurely unclean. And that was their punishment. I
mean, the clear law is like if you do that, you die.
so kind of tying the two somewhat
together.
But I like that you said there's a lot of illusions to
it in the old testament because we
(10:16):
do see that. And one of the other illusions is
circumcision.
So we have way back in Genesis, Abraham
and his family getting called out from
ur.
And I want to read just a little bit of it. It says Terah,
took his son. So this is Genesis eleven and slightly
into twelve. I don't know if I'll get into all of that. But it said Terah
took his son Abram and his grandson lot son,
(10:38):
of Haran, and his daughter in law Sarai, the
wife of his son Abram. And together they set
out for, for ur. set out from ur of the
Chaldeans to go to Canaan. But when
they came to Haran, they settled there. And
then basically it said Terah lived 205 years and
then he died in Haran. which is interesting that the story
(10:58):
begins of Abraham. Like this great journey is coming out
of ur, the Chaldeans, which is Babylon.
>> Muireadhach (11:04):
Babylon. Yeah.
>> Chris (11:06):
So God calling
Abraham out of this. But it starts with
Terah, his dad. And then he got to Haran and was
just like, you know, the goal was to get to
Canaan, the promised land. But once he got
to Haran, he's like, I'm just going to settle here. This is good enough. And then
that's where he died. And then from there, that's when God
(11:27):
calls Abram and says, hey, go from this country
out of this and, go to this land, and I'll bless
you and I'll give it to you and your offsprings. So
the idea here is he's taking him out of the
empire of the world at that time and putting
him kind of creating a new group of people from
it. A new nation, I want to say.
>> Muireadhach (11:46):
And just side weird note that popped in my
head, so the wording might be wrong.
even though God is calling Abram at that time, I
want to say that the way that Genesis is structured, I want to say
that the word, that these structures are called a t dot. Hm. And
that's like, the kind of encapsulating whose story is
this? And what are you covering? Is, like, during that time,
(12:06):
it was the tea dot of his dad. Mmm
m. And that word is coming to my mind
from, like, way back in Bible college. So that might be the wrong. If
there's any, like, Bible students right now. You're like, what the heck is you talking
about? You know what I'm talking about. Writing the show. Put it on the
Facebook page. But, yeah, it's an interesting thing there to, like,
yes, he's calling Abram, but the way that it's
(12:26):
structured is, it's like, it's his dad's part
of the story, which is kind of that weird break of
like, okay, well, now his dad passed away, and then you move into the rest of it to the
Abram. Just weird structuring on
with, on with the story.
>> Chris (12:39):
With that structuring, though, it does make sense that he's calling
them. And then he decides, like, hey, this is a
place I'll settle. but basically, God
wasn't creating a new nation out of anywhere or
nowhere. He was creating his nation out of. Out
of the world, and calling his people out of the
world to be set apart. So then in between that, you have a lot of stuff
that happens. Abraham goes down to Egypt because of a
(13:01):
famine. he rescues lot from being taken captive. There's
the Ishmael and Hagar situation. But then after
all of that, God introduces the covenant of
circumcision. And this happens when Abram is now
99 years old. And it says, I am God
almighty. Walk before me faithfully and be blameless. Then I
will make my covenant between me and you and will
greatly increase your number. So Abram fell face down,
(13:24):
and God said to him, as for me, this is my covenant with
you. You will be the father of many nations. No longer
will you be called Abram. You will be called Abraham, for I have made
you the father of many nations. I will make you very fruitful. I
will make you, make nations of you,
and kings will come from you. I will establish my covenant as an
everlasting covenant between me, you and your descendants
after you for generations to come. to be your
(13:47):
God and the God of your descendants after you. let
me skip to where I want to get to because it's long. And then God
said, as for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your
descendants after you for generations to come. This
is my covenant with you and your descendants after
you. The covenant you are to keep. Every male among you
shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision. It
(14:07):
will be a sign of the covenant between me and you for generations
to come. Every male among you who is eight
days old must be circumcised. And, then it goes on to
talk about, this is foreigners. Anyone who's in your household
has, to be circumcised. And this is the everlasting covenant.
>> Muireadhach (14:22):
Right? So you got that Old Testament going on, right? So
you're like circumcision. I thought we were talking about baptism.
>> Chris (14:27):
Right?
>> Muireadhach (14:27):
Where we get into colossians 211
twelve. you've got in him, you were also
circumcised with the circumcision not performed by human
hands, your whole self ruled by the flesh
was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having
been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also
raised with him through your faith in the working of God,
(14:48):
who raised him from the dead.
So that's where you have. Okay.
Circumcision being linked now with baptism.
>> Chris (14:56):
Right. And Paul's making that connection between the
two of what this circumcision act like.
>> Muireadhach (15:01):
The removal of the flesh.
>> Chris (15:02):
The removal of the flesh. Yeah. And I think Luke kind of
is taking this, idea from Abraham when he
includes the story of Jesus being circumcised.
Because we have that, and only in Luke's gospel
do we have that story. But he went
out of his way to mention on the 8th day Jesus
was circumcised. Taking it back to like Jesus,
fulfilling all these regulations
(15:25):
or laws that the Israelites were supposed to m and I found this
interesting because, why was the commandment made for the
8th day? And I heard this from the Lord of the spirits
podcast, and it said the idea behind it really goes back to
creation. God created everything in seven days, and the
8th day was the beginning of new creation. M
so what we have is like,
(15:46):
8th day old is gone, and then
new life, new beginning, and that's what circumcision is.
Right. and going into baptism, what do we
do when we baptize? you know, it's death
to life.
>> Muireadhach (15:58):
Right.
>> Chris (15:58):
So it's almost that same combination of what you're seeing
there.
>> Muireadhach (16:02):
Okay, can I jump into something that Heiser
brought into my mind in relation
to circumcision, and baptism
coming together. So he's got a multiple part
series on baptism, if you go on his blog, Dr.
Msh, and you can just like use the search bar there for
baptism. But this was the first time that I'd heard this. But he
basically says that there's some sort of connection between
(16:24):
baptism and the circumcision shown through
Colossians. Paul wouldn't pair them if they weren't
meant to be associated in some way. And what follows? I'll give you my
take on what the connection is. Second, let's look at
circumcision. What did it actually do? Well, we
know what it didn't do, so let's start there.
Circumcision didn't guarantee or ensure
salvation. We know that because most circumcised people
(16:46):
wound up apostasizing, prompting that little thing we
call the exile that is patently evident. And
number two, it didn't mark women.
Circumcision did mean something to israelite women,
though the sign of circumcision was physical, visible
reminder to women that their race, their own lives, and the life
of their children began as a supernatural act of God on
behalf of Abraham and Sarah. It was a constant reminder of God's
(17:08):
grace to that couple and their posterity. But
getting one's something cut didn't bestow
salvation. It reminded one of
supernatural beginning by grace. And then he goes on
to say, and I'll stop after this. So what did it do? I think the answer
is painfully easy, which, which in part explains why so many have added
to it for so long. Circumcision granted the
(17:29):
recipient admission into the community of
Israel. Female children were admitted by virtue of being
the property of an admitted male. So that's patriarchal culture,
right? And so don't get all bent out of shape property wise, right?
>> Chris (17:40):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (17:41):
So basically, so what you say?
Why was membership into the community a big deal? What made
this community different? Simple.
This one and only. This one had
the oracles of God, to borrow Paul's phrase. In
short, it had the truth about who was really God among all
gods. So that's where, if you're
(18:01):
looking at circumcision on how Heizer's presenting it, just
like, yeah, here's a sign that you're entering
into this community, right? So like, what did kids do? They
did nothing as far as like obedience or anything, right? It's just like, no, no,
no. You're one of us and you're here and you're going to be able to be taught these things and be
around. It doesn't mean that they'd be faithful to it, but they
were part of that community, which I think that that's where you
(18:21):
can get some of the justifications for like infant baptism.
>> Chris (18:24):
Right? Right, yeah.
>> Muireadhach (18:26):
Versus if like you're at a baptist church like us, it's believer's
baptism. So even how we're talking about with our kids, right. It's
just like, well, we're wanting to see that them taking that step or even me
with a rededication versus some other denominations that
would like. No, they're part of the church. So we're going to
do this thing. We're going to baptize them into the church and then through
the church they'll have a generally where
(18:46):
you'd have like a confirmation, right. Later. Yeah, like, so
you're baptized into this. Now you confirm that you're actually part of it.
Yeah.
>> Chris (18:52):
And Paul doesn't pull this out of nowhere either. And
I'm glad that Hyzer kind of took it that way because
there's wording of all this in the Old Testament.
Jeremiah four four has circumcise yourselves to the
Lord. Circumcise your hearts, you people of Judah and
the inhabitants of Jerusalem, or my wrath will
flare up and burn like a fire because the evil you
(19:12):
have done. And then in deuteronomy, it's the same thing. The Lord your
God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your
descendants so that you will love him with all your heart,
with all your soul, and with all your life. So,
he's not just making these connections because he's
like pulling them out of thin air. What circumcision has to do with
baptism? Because here he's saying like, the
(19:32):
circumcision of the flesh was a symbol,
but there's going to be a moment where the circumcision of your heart where it
becomes more. And I'm glad you brought up the like, not everyone
who is circumcised was saved
because. Yeah, that's where the exile kicked in. We even have
the story of Moses, And as he's headed
back to deliver the people, the angel
stands in front of him and then the wife throws, is it the foreskin
(19:55):
of the kids at his feet? And
she's like, this is why this guy was gonna, the angel was gonna kill
you because you're not even following through completely.
So it's an important thing. But it is that thing that
Heiser says. It's what made people part of God's
kingdom. And in order to be part of God's kingdom, there
had to be a rebirth, in a sense, a new creation
(20:15):
that allowed you to be part of that.
>> Muireadhach (20:17):
So this is my interjection. People like to use,
exceptions to the rules to try and like bend the
norms. What about the thief on the cross?
The thief on the cross gets pulled into so many different
things about like, well no, this is really
bare bones. It like, what's actually essential for the thing. And
just like, that's not the norm that we're called to follow.
(20:38):
Is God's grace there for somebody in that situation?
You know, deathbed, confession, all that? Like, absolutely. And God's good,
so he'll do that. But like, for those of us
that are like
experiencing life in general of like,
what most of us do, here's what we should be doing, right,
of having the, having the baptism. Because you just said entering
(20:59):
into the kingdom. So like what? So the thief didn't enter into the kingdom.
>> Chris (21:01):
Right. Right.
>> Muireadhach (21:02):
You said that he'd be with him in paradise. Like guys,
how many fingers does your hand have?
>> Chris (21:07):
Do you want me to answer that?
>> Muireadhach (21:08):
Yeah.
>> Chris (21:08):
Okay. Five.
>> Muireadhach (21:09):
Did you know some people have six?
>> Chris (21:11):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (21:12):
Okay. go buy some gloves. How many fingers are on it?
Like, it's like I'm sure that there are six fingered gloves for people
too. But you know what I mean? It's just like what's the actual norm within the
situation? And we don't want to take the thing that's not the norm to try and
underpin.
>> Chris (21:24):
Right. To undo all of this, everything that's been
laid out. Because it is laid out pretty
clearly. then we also have the crossing of the Red Sea is
another illusion of it. The crossing of the red sea
or the sea of reeds. By the Israelites.
it's interesting. What I found here is that the
Egyptians believed that the sea of reeds, had to be crossed
in order to get to the afterlife, so that they would offer, like,
(21:47):
gems to their gods and everything. And here, again, where the Bible
is like, no, we're going to show you what the truth is.
The Israelites crossing, they moved from death to life
in the water. You know, that's the illusion there.
the same first corinthians says this, for I do want, I
don't want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our
ancestors were all under the cloud and they
(22:08):
all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into
Moses in the cloud of the sea. So Paul's,
again, making that connection of this moment was that, which
really there?
>> Muireadhach (22:17):
I mean, on that one, it's so where was
Moses and the Israelites leaving? M Egypt,
right? Slavery, oppression, flesh, like, all
the things that Egypt represents. So, like, okay,
you've been freed from that place and now
you're going. But it's not like God was like, oh, cool, you're
free. Like, just go on now. It's like, no, Egypt
(22:37):
was following them. Like, what was the path
forward? It's like they had to die. They had to be
baptized through how you're saying, like, this is the entrance to the underworld, right? So
it's like they had to go in that, through that, and then to the other
side, which was the promised land. So when you're looking at baptism, like, you've been
freed from your sins, the enemy
is not for that. Your flesh still doesn't want to submit to
(22:57):
that. So, like, what's the path forward into? Like, the blessed life that God
is giving you? Baptism. You gotta die to what
was before. Like, yeah. All of these things that are here is just
like, God is so intricate, like,
the real history of what was going on with the people
and then how that ties into something like baptism,
it's just crazy, like, how intricate that is. Yeah.
>> Chris (23:18):
And there's all these little clues that get dropped into, like, all these
illusions, too. the next one I had
was, entering the promised land through the Jordan again,
crossing through a sea. But this is after 40 years
of wandering in the wilderness. And the wilderness
is looked at as well. That's the evil. That's the
Badlands, right? Like, in most cases of the Bible.
>> Muireadhach (23:37):
Like, what is it?
>> Chris (23:38):
The goats to azale. And the bad goat
go to Isael is going into the wilderness. So out of the
wilderness, into the promised land. Again,
it's a picture of what happens with baptism.
It's taking the world out of us. It's taking the
wilderness out of us, the chaos and bringing us into this
new life with God. And then Nahum is
(23:59):
another one who had leprosy. And Elijah tells him to dip seven
times in the Jordan to, cleanse himself. And
he does it, and now he's clean and
it's again, this uncleanness that now gets removed from
him.
>> Muireadhach (24:12):
And that one I like, the one of Nahum, which is a
crazy story. Go, go and look at it like it's cool.
But yeah, that dip, right? That dip is the
immersion. So like he went and he immersed himself in,
into the river there and coming out.
Yeah, his, leprosy was gone.
So whereas you have like, the ritualistic cleansing, they're just
(24:33):
like, oh, you're ritually unclean, but here you have an
illness that's being miraculously taken
away as well. And when I look at these things of like,
okay, these things are all building towards,
baptism. And where,
again, ritualistic has nothing to do with morality, right?
And even a skin condition is
(24:53):
external. So you're looking at these things being washed
away. When we get into baptism in the New
Testament, it does shift to
the moral thing because what
you have in, I guess, Mark and
John, maybe Matthew, is
that when they're going down into the
water, they're confessing their sins.
(25:16):
So either they confess their sins beforehand or when they're in the water, they're confessing
their sins and being baptized. Like they're
repenting and being baptized for the remission of the
forgiveness of those. So now it's turned into a
moral thing. And when they're going down into the water,
what before was happening on the external
now is happening on the internal to where it's just like,
(25:37):
oh, leprosy gets washed away, but now it's
like guilt is getting washed
away. You know what I mean? And just the image of that, of like,
what was happening before isn't what's happening
now. And that's just a cool thing for me
to like, oh, now it's going deeper. Like, yes,
it's the physical representation of you're going down into
the water, but yeah, what God is doing with
(25:59):
that is like, yeah, cleansing you on a whole
different level.
>> Chris (26:02):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (26:03):
I think that Peter, would talk about that.
You go and you have baptism so that you can have a clear conscience before
God. Right. Knowing that you've been forgiven,
which is a whole other thing. Certain denominations say that
it is baptism which cleanses you of your
sins, that that's where the forgiveness and the cleansing happens. So it's
like you can come to God, you can believe in him,
(26:23):
you can repent, but it's not till you're actually
baptized that the sins are actually washed away and put
into remission. And there's several verses that
phrase it that way. So again, it's just like, I can get where the different
denominations understand these things differently.
But regardless, that washing away that's happening,
like, I just think that's so cool. Cause to think of
Naaman with leprosy, right. And just like a decaying
(26:46):
skin condition to realize like, oh, that's like, what sin is on
my soul. Yeah, but like, how am I gonna get, like, leprosy? There's
no cure for leprosy. Like, what are you going to do? And to realize,
like, sin in my life. Like, what's the cure for that thing? Like, what are you going to
do? So when you take these things, it's just like, well, you're repenting and you're
believing, you're going into these waters of death and
like, that is taking away
(27:06):
the. Sin that's there. Like, it's so cool.
>> Chris (27:09):
Yeah. Ah, that story in general too is like, like, he
wasn't going to do it because he's like, why am I going to go washing this filthy.
>> Muireadhach (27:14):
And this guy's just like, just might as well do it. You're already here.
>> Chris (27:17):
Yeah. the next example is Noah's ark, where the
people, and the earth have been so corrupted
by sin. And we've covered this in the excluded
books of the Bible, in the Enoch story. but to
get more context in depth. But it's basically so
God sends the flood to end creation but saves Noah.
And here we see the judgment of sin. The judgment
(27:37):
was the flood, the water that covered the earth. and when the
water went away, the earth was a new creation and
humanity started all over again with Noah.
and I got a little bit more with Noah, but I'll save that towards the
end. but these are the connections that I think that
John, was starting to make when he began baptizing
people, and doing it the way that we understand it
and do it today. it was basically all
(28:00):
these things, all these old Testament illusions
that, led him to saying, like, let's do this. And it's interesting
too that he started in the Jordan or that's where
his ministry was. because the Jordan had such a
big role in a lot of the things. And we talked about the. Into the
promised land was through the Jordan. So again, it's taking the
people who, in a sense, as they're coming to be
(28:20):
baptized, who were corrupted by the roman
society, who were kind of living within the world and saying,
hey, if you want to be part of God's kingdom, we've got to
go through the Jordan again to get into the promised land
of being in God's family. So
there's a lot of connections here with it. I do want to
look at the little verses that we kind of tackled. You
(28:40):
got something else?
>> Muireadhach (28:41):
I'm just gonna say, I know that when I was talking about, like, oh, coming out of
Egypt, and then you go through and you're in the promised land, and then you immediately
went into, like, oh, through the Jordan, get into the promised land. For anybody
listening, the confusion is it's
through the Jordan into the promised land. I did
a hop, skip and a jump of going to that.
So clarification, they are two different rivers. They
(29:01):
were on the journey to get to that place. If they would have just been
obedient to God and said, cool, we can go in, then it would have been
that second crossing. But yeah, there's 40 years in the middle.
So yes, they were going to promised land, but technically
going through the Jordan is what got them there. Although the
Red Sea was also a step towards it. Yes.
>> Chris (29:19):
so we see that John baptizes
Jesus.
>> Muireadhach (29:23):
Ah.
>> Chris (29:23):
And Luke sees this as the climax of John's
ministry. this is kind of like the crescendo
of everything that John was doing. if John
was the herald, of the king, announcing to the people that
the king is coming, then Jesus being baptized is
the anointing of the king. So this is Jesus being
anointed as king. the king is coming. The king is coming. And
now we're hearing, like, the king is here. So all of
(29:45):
the baptism was basically him heralding that
in, and it's interesting that Luke mentions this
and none of the others accounts, of Jesus
baptizing mentions, this, that Jesus was praying
while he was being baptized. I never caught that until I
did study that. No other ones
say it. And it's only here that he says, he was praying.
And this is the first of ten times that Luke's gospel
(30:08):
mentions Jesus praying. And that
again, I just love when, like, there's little, like,
things like that where it's over and over again or someone's really picking
up on something. and every time we see it,
it's a quick, It's just like this is always a gut check to
my own life of like, where's my prayer life? You
know, that's a side note. But three things
(30:29):
happened.
>> Muireadhach (30:29):
That's just us as friends.
>> Chris (30:30):
Yeah, that's just.
>> Muireadhach (30:31):
I'll follow up.
>> Chris (30:32):
After three things happened, during this baptism, the heavens
opened up, the spirit descended on Jesus,
and then God spoke, which are
all really interesting, things here. So the heavens
opening up is kind of echoes. Isaiah 64
one. and it's interesting because it starts off with the
phrase in that day. and then the he, and then
moves into heavens being opened up, which
(30:55):
if going back to our not,
excluded, forgotten books of the bible series, where
all of them had that in that day, in the day,
anytime. I read that now all I can think of. Day of the Lord.
So day of the Lord here Isaiah saying, in that day,
and then the heavens opened up. It's the day of the Lord. and here we
see the same thing where it's the heavens opened up. So it's kind of
(31:16):
tying those two together. But, it allowed the holy spirit
to descend. it was in bodily form of a
dove. Indicates that the spirit had an outward appearance of a
dove. This is one of those ones, again, that's like, can be
twisted or looked at in all the weird ways.
>> Muireadhach (31:30):
Yeah. So it's interesting here because. Yeah,
you get into the different people who talk about it.
It does mention here in Luke in a
bodily form, which when you get into the language there
and you have bodily. I think it's like somatika coming
from soma, or soma meaning body. And it's just
like, that is actual, like corporal
(31:50):
body, like having a bodily form.
So that is interesting that coming down from heaven,
like, was a body coming down like
something physical and corporal coming down to come
upon Jesus. But then it's saying
like a dove. Yeah, and that, like a
dove. That's where it's like, okay, well, did it
(32:11):
look like a dove? Is dove representing like, like the
meekness and gentleness and like that kind of thing?
I'm more just like something physical
just came out of heaven and landed on this. Like, I'm
more on that. Okay, it looks like a dove. It acts like
a, like whatever you're trying to say, like, y'all are just standing
in a river and the heavens opened up, you hear a voice
(32:33):
and something comes from heaven and lands on this man.
It doesn't matter what it looks like.
I mean, it matters to a point. That's why. That's why it's there. But,
like, yeah, I would be inclined.
>> Chris (32:44):
To agree with you on that 100% that there was something
physically that happened. it reminds me of revelation,
a lot, because in revelation, you get, it was
so, this is what it was. And then John then goes,
it was like. And obviously, the like is
like that at his time, was the only thing he could make the connection
to. And just thinking here, if,
(33:05):
Luke is an eyewitness and he's getting this from eyewitness
accounts, this is probably. It was like a dove,
and maybe someone was thinking Genesis one, two, where the
spirit was hovering above the water like a bird, and
kind of making those connections. But like you said, it could be
so many reasons, like the purity of Jesus, like, the
dove is pure. and, all that. So,
(33:25):
yeah, I would agree that it's something
physically burst out of heaven,
and that was their only
way they could make it make sense.
>> Muireadhach (33:35):
Can I go on a little sidetrack before we get to the
blow of sun? Because I know that you're getting to that one next. I don't know if you have anything
on this. or if I'm just gonna go solo,
but before, when we were talking about John's baptism,
right? So he's baptizing, as we said, repentance,
forgiveness of sins, and that's what he's got going on. But
when he talks about, hey, the one that's gonna come, because you were saying he's preparing
(33:55):
the way for the one, here's the king, and, like, here's the anointing of
the king. You can look at it that way. But he was
saying, I'm baptizing you with water. He's
going to baptize you with the holy spirit and with fire.
And to my knowledge, Jesus didn't
baptize anyone during his ministry, right. He never
took anyone to a river like what John was doing. Now. John was
(34:16):
still alive after this point, and he kept baptizing people. And later
on, you get to acts, and you have people who were baptized in John's
baptism. And then Paul would be like,
okay, well, you need to be baptized in what Jesus has going
on. So it's an interesting thing. Jesus didn't baptize
anybody, but then go to the great commission. He
told his followers to go and baptize people into his
name in the name of the Father, the Son, and spirit.
(34:38):
But that thing about baptizing with fire and why it was the connection
for me is like, okay, heaven's opened up and something
like a dove comes onto Jesus when
you get the day of Pentecost. Right. So this is
after the resurrection, which the new covenant that Jesus
is coming to do is like the covenant of the Holy Spirit. So, like, he's going
to baptize you with the Holy Spirit. That didn't happen
(34:58):
during Jesus lifetime, right? Well, I guess
technically it did. Cause he was resurrected and he has life. You get what I mean?
>> Chris (35:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Earthly.
>> Muireadhach (35:06):
He was still on earth.
>> Chris (35:08):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (35:08):
You get what I mean? Anyways, like, he. It's when they're in the
room and again, descending from heaven
is something like flames or
tongues of fire coming down. And that
baptizing of fire and the Holy Spirit, that
happens at that point. just the difference in
like, what's coming down from heaven and what that is. And
the call back to like, here's how he's gonna baptize you.
>> Chris (35:30):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (35:31):
And like, that was the follow up. Is that, like,
that's when that happened?
>> Chris (35:35):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (35:36):
just because we're talking about baptizing and Jesus, and like,
John says he's gonna baptize you and then you kind of don't see
that for a minute. And even when that happens,
he's. Yeah, he's up in heaven sitting on the throne, so he's not
taking somebody and putting them in water.
>> Chris (35:49):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (35:50):
Yeah.
>> Chris (35:50):
It's interesting because I never thought of that either. So that's why I was sitting here
thinking as you're talking about, like, what? No, Jesus
didn't baptize anybody. Then my mind went
like, man, if you were baptized by Jesus, wouldn't have that been the coolest
thing ever, which is probably why no one was
baptized.
>> Muireadhach (36:05):
By Jesus, which is also where Paul is just like, y'all are
fighting who baptized? I'm glad I didn't actually.
I did baptize two of you guys. But beyond that, like, that's
not what this is about.
>> Chris (36:15):
Yeah, yeah. Cause that's not what it's about. And it was about
that fire, that second baptism of the holy
spirit and all of them making, I think, just its illusion
to an illusion to an illusion to get to that big
moment of what that is. God
speaks. So this is the first time God speaks
in the New Testament.
>> Muireadhach (36:33):
You're all about these firsts during this series. You've really
been pulling out a lot of first.
>> Chris (36:37):
They're interesting because they make me understand things
differently. And with this, his first words are,
you are my son, whom I love.
With you I am well pleased. This is before Jesus
has done anything. None of the
miracles, none of the ministry,
the water to wine, the teaching, the preaching, the death on the
cross before he's done anything.
(37:00):
God says, you are my son. With you, I am well
pleased. and I love you. To me,
that's more of a personal thing than a teaching
thing of like, how God can love us
before we've even done anything. and it just shows his love
there. but this lets us know who Jesus is
from gabriel, Elizabeth, Zechariah, the heavenly
(37:20):
host, Simeon and Anna, all saying
this. Now we get like, this big confirmation
of, this is my son with
who.
>> Muireadhach (37:29):
Am I 30 years later?
>> Chris (37:30):
Yeah, yeah. The follow up to all of that,
and I think
Luke's using all those to set the
groundwork for this moment.
>> Muireadhach (37:41):
Yeah, I think that as well. I, wanted to
confirm that. I think that, but I also had another thought of,
you're saying, like, before he's done anything. I think that
really what sets Jesus apart, though,
is like, he actually has done
so much. Like, you lamed
off, like, all these miraculous things that are gonna come, but we go back
(38:02):
to, like, twelve year old Jesus didn't. You know, I'm m about my
father's business. He submitted himself to
obedience under his parents. It's just like he's a,
loved son, and he's well pleased because he's been
faithful to his father. He's been obedient up until this
point, which isn't to take away from, like, God loves us even.
Like, he loved us even when we were sinners. Like, he sent
Jesus to die for us. Right. So it's not taking away, like,
(38:24):
God doesn't love you because you haven't been
perfect. Right. But that's where
I get this is like, this marks Jesus apart, obviously, Jesus
marked apart because this is happening. It's like,
yeah, he was sinless. When you look at, like, this is
my son. Like, the firstborn son, my only
begotten son. You know, all those things are just like, yeah,
(38:44):
he's, he's the special one. And I just want to play
off that. Like, he hadn't done anything yet. And just like, he did the quote
unquote boring thing.
>> Chris (38:51):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (38:52):
Obedience of just living life
obediently.
>> Chris (38:56):
Yeah. Being circumcised on the 8th day,
all.
>> Muireadhach (39:00):
This stuff, listening to mom and dad.
>> Chris (39:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's a good point.
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (39:05):
Which just is like, God is pleased with just
going to that personal thing. Why, that's a personal thing for me. Like, don't think
that God's not pleased with you because amazing things aren't happening in your
life. Just go live a.
But doesn't, say in scripture, like, hey, just go live a quiet, good life.
Yeah, all this crazy stuff
doesn't have to happen. Just go be obedient to God. Live a quiet life, love the people around
(39:25):
you, and, like, it's not a confirmation by all of the
extra stuff. Like, yeah, you get to the end, and well
done.
>> Chris (39:32):
Yeah. It made me think of, Jesus talking
about. I don't know if it's when he hands out
the parable of the,
money, and then some people bury it, some people put
it in deposit, whatever it is. and then it's, at the end
of it. Those who are faithful in the little will
be given much. and I. I don't
(39:52):
know. I'm pretty sure this is just me making odd
connections. But you talking about, like, well, he was
obedient in the little. Before the big came.
>> Muireadhach (40:00):
Right.
>> Chris (40:01):
If, as he's saying that, that's personalized. Like,
I live this life. I, ah, know that being
faithful in the little, then God will entrust you
with much more.
>> Muireadhach (40:11):
Dang. Yeah.
>> Chris (40:13):
Again, could be reading a little bit much into it, but I like what
you're reading.
>> Muireadhach (40:17):
I'll read that book.
>> Chris (40:17):
Yeah. I did
read, in a commentary, that this, is kind of a
pooling of psalms two. this you are my
son thing. And that's why do the nations
conspire and the people plot in vain? The kings of the earth
rise up, and the rulers, and rulers together
against the lord and against his anointed, saying,
let us break their chains and throw off their shackles. The
(40:39):
anointed or the one enthroned and one is capitalized?
The one enthroned in heaven lasts. The lord scoffs at
them. He rebukes them in anger and terrifies them in
his wrath, saying, I have installed my king on Zion,
my holy mountain. I will proclaim the lord's
decree. He said to me, you are my son. Today I have
become your father. so
(41:00):
you see this like, this old Testament kind of, callback?
because here, the way David's talking in the psalm, it's obviously
not david being writing about
himself. He's writing about someone to come and a king
that will sit on Zion on the holy
mountain.
>> Muireadhach (41:15):
But psalm two was
used as a coronation psalm in ancient
Israel.
>> Chris (41:21):
Oh, okay.
>> Muireadhach (41:22):
Did you know that, so like when a king was being corona.
Coronation. When a king was becoming king.
>> Chris (41:26):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (41:27):
I don't know what the past tense of coronation is coordinated. That's all
I could think of my life.
yeah. So when a king was being installed, that
psalm would be read during the coronation service.
>> Chris (41:39):
Oh, that's interesting.
>> Muireadhach (41:40):
So the idea was that the psalm would remind the davidic king
of his calling to represent God's rule on earth and everything else
that kind of comes with that. So even here, that's
where, when you said earlier, they're like, oh, he's the king.
And this was like his anointing, I thought that you were making the call back to that
because.
>> Chris (41:55):
No, not yet.
>> Muireadhach (41:56):
No saying. And that callback
is what that means.
>> Chris (41:59):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (42:00):
So yes, he's the son, but it's also like, here's
the king.
>> Chris (42:04):
Yeah. And then you have. That's what God says, you are my son
today. So it's the,
>> Muireadhach (42:07):
So it's like, yeah, the fulfillment of, like you were saying, like, yeah,
he's looking to a future one. It's like, so here is the future one. But
also in practice, this is what you would say
for a king.
>> Chris (42:17):
Yeah, that's pretty cool. No, I didn't make those two connections. I just had
those random notes on my, my thing. the other
thing is, if we look at this, like God's message every time he
speaks audibly in the new testament, the transfiguration,
I, think it's when Jesus, is in the garden, he speaks
again. They're all doing the same thing, declaring
that this is my son and I'm well pleased with him.
(42:39):
It's, over and over again, this is my son, who I'm well
pleased. So it is just this
God highly speaking of who Jesus is,
and confirming with everybody,
this is the king, he's here. The savior that you're looking for,
the one you're trying to find, the one you've been waiting for,
here he is over and over again. for the most
(43:00):
part, that's all I have. and then I have some stuff on Noah
that I got from Hyzer as well.
>> Muireadhach (43:05):
I want to hear that. But also, as you were
talking about, the well pleased. And just
like, well pleased, well pleased. There's the concept
of Jesus being the second
Adam. Right, right. And looking at
the new creation and kind of taking things back there, and I
think about when Adam and Eve are created and God
says, very good, that seems like a
(43:27):
well pleased. So now when we're looking at, like,
this new creation for humanity.
And he's saying, like, yeah, look, here's my son.
I'm well pleased. And just kind of, I don't know, I'm
making that kind of restoration. When we're entering
into a Christ like life, we're going back to like,
yeah, it's very good, you know, being
(43:47):
made back into not just like the image of
God, but back into the likeness of God.
>> Chris (43:52):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (43:53):
And, like, that's where he's well pleased with that. Okay,
noah.
>> Chris (43:56):
I like that. That was really cool. so this again, something I heard
from Heiser. It's from first Peter
318 to 22. and
basically, I'll read it. It says, for Christ also suffered once
for sins, the righteous and the unrighteous, to bring you to
God. He was put to death in the body, but made
alive in the spirit. After being made alive, he
(44:16):
went and made proclamation to the imprisoned
spirits, to those who were disobedient. Long
ago, when God waited patiently in the days of
Noah, while the ark was being built in it, only a few
people, eight in all, were saved through the water. And this
water symbolized baptism that now saves you
also. Not the removal of dirt from your
body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward,
(44:39):
God. It saves you by the resurrection of
Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at
God's right hand with angels, authorities, powers and submission
to him. So I'm just going to read his
answer. but this is his response to all of this,
because he asked, if we follow what we read, and
wondered what it has to do with baptism, the ark, knowing the prison
(44:59):
stuff, like, what does all this have to do with this concept?
So he says in Genesis six, there's a connection with two,
Peter and Jude. These texts refer to the jewish
tradition and the book verse Enoch describing fallen
angels imprisoned in the underworld. Enoch, a
biblical prophet, was asked by the angels to intercede
for them, but God denied their appeal. Their
imprisonment is until the end of time. Peter
(45:22):
sees a, theological connection between Genesis six
events and the gospels resurrection. Jesus, like
Enoch, descended, to announce defeat to the
fallen angels, emphasized in one Peter. What I just
read, this victory declaration is why baptism
is, linked to this concept.
Baptism symbolizes a pledge of loyalty to the
(45:42):
risen savior and serves as a reminder to the
defeated angels. It's a public declaration
of loyalty. In the cosmic war between good and evil,
baptism in early christian understanding is
a form of spiritual warfare against the fallen angels in
Genesis six. So, here he sees baptism
as this connection between, our proclamation and
(46:02):
declaration to the evil principalities, the
rulers of the world, that we belong to
God.
And I really love that because I
never got that connection to it. I would look
at it as growing up again talking about how we grew up
knowing baptism as just the symbolic thing
of it's just a symbol, it's like a wedding
(46:22):
ring. and a lot of people say that, and I
get it for basic understanding. but at
some point there's got to be a deeper understanding of why this
has been a tradition that's been kept going on and on. And I just
love that this was, our loyalty to
the principalities of saying
we're on God's side now.
>> Muireadhach (46:41):
Yeah. Ever since I came across that, I've started integrating
that. Not a lot because it's hard for new believers to
kind of get fully onto that, but I'll, I'll bring some of
that up. When kind of counseling people through who are getting ready to get
baptized, I'm like, a lot of people are like, I don't want to get up there in
front of everybody and all this stuff. I'm like, well, little do you
know, you're getting up in front of
(47:02):
a lot more than just the people sitting in the chairs. And here's why it's
such a good thing. and really like, hey, like, why is it that you're
wanting to follow Jesus? Like, what's going on there? It's just like,
yeah, you're wanting to get away from the life that you're living. Like, this is the
moment of declaration. And like, to kind of
just take all the things that we talked about was like, yeah, you're going to look at a declaration
of loyalty. There's like, no, I'm done with
(47:22):
following any thing other than Jesus.
I'm declaring that, and in declaring that, I'm
going to show that by going down into the waters
and basically going, I'm dying to. Everything that was
there, that person who was following that person is not even alive
anymore to follow. Like when I come up out of those waters,
I'm a new person and everything is following
(47:42):
God. And in that, like,
that actually is a real thing that takes
place because I'm actually forgiven.
And I'm received the holy spirit that
is making me Christ, like, to where I am a child of God. Right. Jesus says
for all who believe, he gives the right to become children of God. So it's just
like so much there
(48:03):
within like baptism. I know I'm stretching a little bit outside of
baptism towards this. Like, a lot of people look at it
like, well, I believe, like, do I really need to do that? And it's
like, man, with the proper
perspective on it. I mean, it's good even if you don't
have all this stuff. But, like, if this isn't enticing
you to go, like, yeah,
(48:23):
I do want that. Like, let me step fully into
that.
>> Chris (48:27):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (48:28):
it should. I would hope that it would.
>> Chris (48:30):
Yeah. That's why I think it's important. Like, I know we could get caught up,
and I love that you brought in the, the thief,
on the cross as people's ways of saying, like, well,
I don't need to do the thing because it's just symbolic anyways.
And I know in my heart it's different. But
what really, through the studying and things that I've done
and what we presented is a
(48:50):
glimpse of what's really out there. We're trying to do
something in 60 minutes. And,
really, this could be like hours and hours and hours of
study to get to an understanding. But what,
what baptism does is
way more important than where it came from,
in my opinion. because what it does is it removes a
(49:10):
person from the world, the world system of evil,
the source of sin that's in our lives, the way of thinking. Like the
world, that we need to be purified from the way of life
we've been living. And all its residue that's on
us, it's a declaration of spiritual warfare, saying
that we are on God's team, we are on his
side. It's the beginning of membership in the family of God, just
like how we saw circumcision. And then finally, and this is
(49:33):
the best part, it makes us co heirs with Christ.
All the promises of Christ, all the promises given to him,
the well done. This is my son. With whom am I well
pleased. All of that falls onto us,
and that's why baptism is so important. again,
we did our best to bring up ideas and concepts from the Old Testament
to see how they connect to the New Testament and
(49:54):
why John started doing it. But to me, I think
what it actually does is more important than where it
came from. and that's all I got. What do you got?
>> Muireadhach (50:02):
I don't have a lot to say. I already kind of said my big thing, but a couple things
just off of the way more important with what it does.
Paul really looks at like,
baptism being the defining event of
salvation. And cause a lot of it was just like, okay, you might say that
you believe, but it's when you're confessing and repenting and
being baptized, it's just like, that's really taking
(50:23):
that step and like, that's a defining moment. And
in that, he uses that
event as a callback as part of his argument for
why sin is inappropriate in the life of a believer. If you
look at Romans six one four, that disunity
among believers is not permissible. First Corinthians
110 13. Then again in chapter twelve, that,
gentiles are Abraham's children, Galatians three. Kind
(50:45):
of how you're talking about joint heirs and you're coming into the family.
or that one should remain free of human philosophy and traditions.
And that's in Colossians two. So kind of this event
of baptism, Paul, when he's like, remember how you guys are
baptized? That's why this thing is a different
thing. But, yeah, I feel like that really
is more on the entry point. It's the entry point into like, cool, you've
done that. You're in. That's why this whole thing changes.
>> Chris (51:08):
Yeah, yeah. So what do we got? Next
episode?
>> Muireadhach (51:11):
next episode, jesus
takes a, cheek swab, sends it off, and we
get the results back from his, 23 andme.
>> Chris (51:19):
Yeah, we're gonna look at the genealogy of Jesus.
>> Muireadhach (51:22):
Yeah, that'll be fun.
>> Chris (51:23):
That will be so, I'm Chris.
>> Muireadhach (51:24):
I'm, Muireadhach
>> Chris (51:25):
We are your church friends. Thanks for listening.
All right, welcome to your church friends podcast. I'm Chris.
>> Muireadhach (00:02):
I'm, Muireadhach
>> Chris (00:03):
So we're talking about baptism today.
>> Muireadhach (00:04):
We sure are.
>> Chris (00:05):
And, have you been baptized?
>> Muireadhach (00:07):
A couple times.
>> Chris (00:08):
Couple times? All right. Want to talk about one of them at least?
>> Muireadhach (00:11):
Yeah, baptized when I was
five at the church that we're currently at.
>> Chris (00:17):
Oh, that's cool.
>> Muireadhach (00:17):
By our senior pastor, when he wasn't the senior pastor,
so weird tie ins with all of that. But
basically, yeah, I was at, like
a. I think it was a vacation Bible school. They did the whole thing
of, hey, you want to accept Jesus and what all that looks like?
Like. Yeah. And it made sense to me at the time and moving forward,
and one of the kids leaders met with me just like, here's kind of what
(00:38):
baptism is. Are you for it? And I don't remember being five, but
apparently, you know, I was just as profound back then. And so
they were super impressed and said, yes, we can baptize this child.
I have a vhs tape of.
>> Chris (00:48):
It of you being baptized.
>> Muireadhach (00:49):
Dude, Ken, big old beard, had the long
hair going on. Remember when I had my beard and long hair?
>> Chris (00:54):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Muireadhach (00:55):
I want to say he pulled it off better, though. yeah, but, yeah, so that was
baptized at five. then as I've sprinkled my
testimony throughout the episodes, all of that
happened. Then coming back to the church, I felt
like, yeah. Having a. As
I look at it now is probably rededication. I know at the
time, I was like, I don't know if I really
knew what I was doing the first time. So I felt
(01:17):
like, here's my actual commitment. So I'm taking this step,
but as I look at it over time, m. I'm like, no, God's been
faithful, even though I wasn't.
But, brought me back in as more of a commitment time.
>> Chris (01:28):
Yeah, Remy was baptized, like,
maybe seven. No, couldn't
be seven or eight. Probably around eight or nine. M.
but even then it might have been eight. Even
then I was like, you know, church nowadays
is like, hey, as soon as a kid says they accept Jesus, get them
baptized, like, baptized as quickly as possible. I just wanted the
(01:50):
candy, right, basically, yeah. And then
Reid's been asking about it, and he's eight now,
and I'm like, no, not yet. I don't think you're ready.
because through the time Remy's been baptized
till now. Like, my
understanding of baptism has changed what it really
means, you know, when we get told, like, oh, it's just symbolism
and this and that, which we'll get into a little bit more with this episode. But
(02:13):
for me, I was baptized around the age of
15 at the church I was going to in
the pastor's pool, and it was by one of my mentors. He
baptized me. but it was cool because he was also
being re baptized, and he was, like, in his forties
at the time. doing it. So, I always thought that was a really
cool thing, and it's made me think as of late, you know, just the same
thing. Like, you're saying the rededication
(02:35):
thing. Like, if maybe. Maybe that's a
thing that should happen. Maybe I should do that.
But baptism is weird because
it's just there, right?
Like, it just starts off. And we have, with Luke,
we're. We're looking at just two
verses today, and it's when, all the people were
baptized. John was, Jesus was baptized, too. And as he was
(02:58):
praying, heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit
descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And
a voice came from heaven. You are my
son, whom I love with you. I am well
pleased. And that's basically everything
we're going to look at. But it just made me think, like,
we're discovering a savior. Where did
baptizing come from?
>> Muireadhach (03:19):
Right, which, looking at last
time, we were talking about John the forerunner. John
the Baptist. Right. So he was out there
baptizing people.
>> Chris (03:28):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (03:28):
I know we kind of talked about it, but we were talking more about John, and, you know,
what he had going on. But, yeah, then coming to this point of, I was
saying, discovering a savior and you have Jesus coming
and getting baptized, and.
Yeah, it really is a thing. Like, where is
baptism? Like, what is this? Why did John start
doing it? Huh? Huh? Right?
>> Chris (03:48):
Yeah, it's like, where did John pick this up at? Where does he. Where does
John go? Like, dunking people in water? This is
the new thing. And, yeah, that's. That's
where the big confusion comes in, because, honestly,
it wasn't until maybe last year or
two years ago when we were talking in, ah, my whole
christian life, I'm just sitting here like, yeah, baptism's the thing we
(04:09):
do. And you said, where did it come from?
And I was like, the Bible,
John. But really, why
was this the new practice? Why was this the new thing?
>> Muireadhach (04:21):
Yeah. I love those questions. Yeah, I was
just like, hey, you know how you're living your life right now?
Think about this.
>> Chris (04:28):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (04:28):
And then I'll just walk away.
>> Chris (04:29):
Yeah. Why did you do that to me? Which sparked the whole
reason of why my son isn't baptized yet.
>> Muireadhach (04:34):
Yeah. Which, quick side note, it was the same
thing for me with Casey. Cause I knew that she
had, like, accepted Jesus and was like, okay. Like she
understood something there. And Delilah and I just talking
through it and like, hey, when she's
ready, she'll take this step, which was
really just last year. So that was like seven
years in between.
>> Chris (04:55):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (04:55):
As a parent, you know, trying to get in Bible studies and
praying and asking questions and doing the whole thing. And it's kind of
like, should I be pressuring more? Like, what should this look
like? But it really felt like the timing was right.
It's like, okay, I'm good with that
clarification we're talking about with our kids.
Right. If you're an adult and looking at this like, it's your
responsibility to, fast forward that whole situation,
(05:17):
because, like, it is an act of obedience, which we'll get into.
>> Chris (05:20):
Yeah. And with everything. I mean, we're talking also about
baptism from, our perspective and our
understanding. But throughout church and culture and even today,
there's people who look at baptism differently, where it's
sprinkling of water is okay. Infant baptism is
okay. Where pouring water over the head is what they
do.
>> Muireadhach (05:38):
I, mean, we put them in once, put them in thrice.
>> Chris (05:40):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (05:41):
Or do what I did twice and get everyone all mad at
me.
>> Chris (05:44):
Yeah. and where the didache had it, like, it has to
be running water. And if you don't have running water, then do it this way and do
it that way. So it is this, like,
I don't want to say convoluted, but like this jumbled
up idea of baptism. And we really,
other than this portion of scripture, we don't
know where it came from.
>> Muireadhach (06:03):
Kind of, kind of, yeah. Even
doing some studying. And it's funny because one of the first commentaries that
I opened up, he was like, so looking
at this, this probably came from.
I'm like, you're the experts and you're gonna lead with a.
Probably came from, which is. Cause
it's true 2000 years ago. And you really have, looking at the
(06:24):
old Testament, there is no clear
baptism, so to speak. There's allusions to things
that even in the new jet testament, they'll call back
on, but it's not quite the same
thing, really. What it seems like the
closest thing though that would happen would be the
ritualistic washings that people
would go through. Right. So we've talked a few times on the show
(06:45):
about being ritualistically
unclean.
Right. Which isn't necessarily a, ah, moral
failing. It was just like, what's the word I'm looking
for? Purity laws. Yeah, purity laws. And like ritualistically,
like holy and all that going on.
So it was more to do with washings having to
do with that, which if you were to look at the
(07:05):
words that were being used, if you took like the
greek version of the Old Testament, you could find like the
word baptizo, which is baptism. In
relation to those kinds of things.
>> Chris (07:15):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (07:15):
So they're looking at, okay, there's a ritual washing.
Looks like that kind of evolved into
also, again, it's not in the Bible, but when you're looking back at the
old practices, it does seem like there was
one of those ritualistic washings that would happen
when a gentile would come into
faith in Judaism.
>> Chris (07:35):
Right, right. Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (07:36):
Which is pretty close to baptism. Right. So you can see
this progression going on to where John
as a jew, just like, okay, well here's the thing that happens.
But yeah, if you're gonna go with
everything that explains the Bible is in the Bible. This
is one of those things where you gotta go.
>> Chris (07:53):
No, yeah, with the
purity law too. that was to make themselves
clean again so they would be allowed back into the community. So
when you're unclean, you're excommunicated from
the community, you have to go sit outside. And then once you're, you've
washed and it covered the gauntlet from
mold, on like your fabric, your clothing,
(08:14):
in.
>> Muireadhach (08:14):
Your house, you got some mildew. Mildew. You gotta go get clean.
>> Chris (08:17):
Yep. infectious diseases. and you know,
the way they described them, it wasn't always just leprosy.
If it was just like a red bump on your body, ingrown hair, maybe
at the time it was like, we gotta wash it and check to make.
>> Muireadhach (08:28):
Sure you're not generally being a woman.
>> Chris (08:31):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (08:32):
Every month.
>> Chris (08:33):
Yeah. Right. You were unclean. So is the Washington. Allow yourself
back into the community. I have this too. It's an exodus.
so this is when the priests go to, the
altar and it said, then the Lord said to Moses,
make a bronze, basin with its bronze
stand for washing. Place it between the tent of meeting and
the altar and put water in it. Aaron and his sons
(08:53):
are to wash their hands and feet with water from it.
Whenever they enter the tent of meeting, they shall
wash, with water so that they will not die.
Also, when they approach the altar to minister by
presenting a food offering to the Lord, they shall wash their hands and
feet so they shall not die. this will
be a lasting ordinance for Aaron and his descendants for generations
to come. So here we see this kind of idea of like this
(09:15):
washing, to go before
God in a sense, to get into the altar. and so the priests
had to do this. And so baptism in the same way you could look at, as
washing and purifying. I'm m trying to remember off the top of my
head, so if anyone remembers, you can correct me freely.
But I don't know if this is before or
after Aaron's first two sons died, who
(09:36):
approached the altar incorrectly
and then passed, away.
And this is Exodus what? this is Exodus
30. And I'm trying to remember if that was in one of the
other books, not in Exodus, because then the
timelines all kind of. You gotta, you gotta do some.
>> Muireadhach (09:53):
Yeah, off the top of my head, I'm not sure.
>> Chris (09:55):
But in that story alone,
they, they approach the altar
impurely unclean. And that was their punishment. I
mean, the clear law is like if you do that, you die.
so kind of tying the two somewhat
together.
But I like that you said there's a lot of illusions to
it in the old testament because we
(10:16):
do see that. And one of the other illusions is
circumcision.
So we have way back in Genesis, Abraham
and his family getting called out from
ur.
And I want to read just a little bit of it. It says Terah,
took his son. So this is Genesis eleven and slightly
into twelve. I don't know if I'll get into all of that. But it said Terah
took his son Abram and his grandson lot son,
(10:38):
of Haran, and his daughter in law Sarai, the
wife of his son Abram. And together they set
out for, for ur. set out from ur of the
Chaldeans to go to Canaan. But when
they came to Haran, they settled there. And
then basically it said Terah lived 205 years and
then he died in Haran. which is interesting that the story
(10:58):
begins of Abraham. Like this great journey is coming out
of ur, the Chaldeans, which is Babylon.
>> Muireadhach (11:04):
Babylon. Yeah.
>> Chris (11:06):
So God calling
Abraham out of this. But it starts with
Terah, his dad. And then he got to Haran and was
just like, you know, the goal was to get to
Canaan, the promised land. But once he got
to Haran, he's like, I'm just going to settle here. This is good enough. And then
that's where he died. And then from there, that's when God
(11:27):
calls Abram and says, hey, go from this country
out of this and, go to this land, and I'll bless
you and I'll give it to you and your offsprings. So
the idea here is he's taking him out of the
empire of the world at that time and putting
him kind of creating a new group of people from
it. A new nation, I want to say.
>> Muireadhach (11:46):
And just side weird note that popped in my
head, so the wording might be wrong.
even though God is calling Abram at that time, I
want to say that the way that Genesis is structured, I want to say
that the word, that these structures are called a t dot. Hm. And
that's like, the kind of encapsulating whose story is
this? And what are you covering? Is, like, during that time,
(12:06):
it was the tea dot of his dad. Mmm
m. And that word is coming to my mind
from, like, way back in Bible college. So that might be the wrong. If
there's any, like, Bible students right now. You're like, what the heck is you talking
about? You know what I'm talking about. Writing the show. Put it on the
Facebook page. But, yeah, it's an interesting thing there to, like,
yes, he's calling Abram, but the way that it's
(12:26):
structured is, it's like, it's his dad's part
of the story, which is kind of that weird break of
like, okay, well, now his dad passed away, and then you move into the rest of it to the
Abram. Just weird structuring on
with, on with the story.
>> Chris (12:39):
With that structuring, though, it does make sense that he's calling
them. And then he decides, like, hey, this is a
place I'll settle. but basically, God
wasn't creating a new nation out of anywhere or
nowhere. He was creating his nation out of. Out
of the world, and calling his people out of the
world to be set apart. So then in between that, you have a lot of stuff
that happens. Abraham goes down to Egypt because of a
(13:01):
famine. he rescues lot from being taken captive. There's
the Ishmael and Hagar situation. But then after
all of that, God introduces the covenant of
circumcision. And this happens when Abram is now
99 years old. And it says, I am God
almighty. Walk before me faithfully and be blameless. Then I
will make my covenant between me and you and will
greatly increase your number. So Abram fell face down,
(13:24):
and God said to him, as for me, this is my covenant with
you. You will be the father of many nations. No longer
will you be called Abram. You will be called Abraham, for I have made
you the father of many nations. I will make you very fruitful. I
will make you, make nations of you,
and kings will come from you. I will establish my covenant as an
everlasting covenant between me, you and your descendants
after you for generations to come. to be your
(13:47):
God and the God of your descendants after you. let
me skip to where I want to get to because it's long. And then God
said, as for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your
descendants after you for generations to come. This
is my covenant with you and your descendants after
you. The covenant you are to keep. Every male among you
shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision. It
(14:07):
will be a sign of the covenant between me and you for generations
to come. Every male among you who is eight
days old must be circumcised. And, then it goes on to
talk about, this is foreigners. Anyone who's in your household
has, to be circumcised. And this is the everlasting covenant.
>> Muireadhach (14:22):
Right? So you got that Old Testament going on, right? So
you're like circumcision. I thought we were talking about baptism.
>> Chris (14:27):
Right?
>> Muireadhach (14:27):
Where we get into colossians 211
twelve. you've got in him, you were also
circumcised with the circumcision not performed by human
hands, your whole self ruled by the flesh
was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having
been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also
raised with him through your faith in the working of God,
(14:48):
who raised him from the dead.
So that's where you have. Okay.
Circumcision being linked now with baptism.
>> Chris (14:56):
Right. And Paul's making that connection between the
two of what this circumcision act like.
>> Muireadhach (15:01):
The removal of the flesh.
>> Chris (15:02):
The removal of the flesh. Yeah. And I think Luke kind of
is taking this, idea from Abraham when he
includes the story of Jesus being circumcised.
Because we have that, and only in Luke's gospel
do we have that story. But he went
out of his way to mention on the 8th day Jesus
was circumcised. Taking it back to like Jesus,
fulfilling all these regulations
(15:25):
or laws that the Israelites were supposed to m and I found this
interesting because, why was the commandment made for the
8th day? And I heard this from the Lord of the spirits
podcast, and it said the idea behind it really goes back to
creation. God created everything in seven days, and the
8th day was the beginning of new creation. M
so what we have is like,
(15:46):
8th day old is gone, and then
new life, new beginning, and that's what circumcision is.
Right. and going into baptism, what do we
do when we baptize? you know, it's death
to life.
>> Muireadhach (15:58):
Right.
>> Chris (15:58):
So it's almost that same combination of what you're seeing
there.
>> Muireadhach (16:02):
Okay, can I jump into something that Heiser
brought into my mind in relation
to circumcision, and baptism
coming together. So he's got a multiple part
series on baptism, if you go on his blog, Dr.
Msh, and you can just like use the search bar there for
baptism. But this was the first time that I'd heard this. But he
basically says that there's some sort of connection between
(16:24):
baptism and the circumcision shown through
Colossians. Paul wouldn't pair them if they weren't
meant to be associated in some way. And what follows? I'll give you my
take on what the connection is. Second, let's look at
circumcision. What did it actually do? Well, we
know what it didn't do, so let's start there.
Circumcision didn't guarantee or ensure
salvation. We know that because most circumcised people
(16:46):
wound up apostasizing, prompting that little thing we
call the exile that is patently evident. And
number two, it didn't mark women.
Circumcision did mean something to israelite women,
though the sign of circumcision was physical, visible
reminder to women that their race, their own lives, and the life
of their children began as a supernatural act of God on
behalf of Abraham and Sarah. It was a constant reminder of God's
(17:08):
grace to that couple and their posterity. But
getting one's something cut didn't bestow
salvation. It reminded one of
supernatural beginning by grace. And then he goes on
to say, and I'll stop after this. So what did it do? I think the answer
is painfully easy, which, which in part explains why so many have added
to it for so long. Circumcision granted the
(17:29):
recipient admission into the community of
Israel. Female children were admitted by virtue of being
the property of an admitted male. So that's patriarchal culture,
right? And so don't get all bent out of shape property wise, right?
>> Chris (17:40):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (17:41):
So basically, so what you say?
Why was membership into the community a big deal? What made
this community different? Simple.
This one and only. This one had
the oracles of God, to borrow Paul's phrase. In
short, it had the truth about who was really God among all
gods. So that's where, if you're
(18:01):
looking at circumcision on how Heizer's presenting it, just
like, yeah, here's a sign that you're entering
into this community, right? So like, what did kids do? They
did nothing as far as like obedience or anything, right? It's just like, no, no,
no. You're one of us and you're here and you're going to be able to be taught these things and be
around. It doesn't mean that they'd be faithful to it, but they
were part of that community, which I think that that's where you
(18:21):
can get some of the justifications for like infant baptism.
>> Chris (18:24):
Right? Right, yeah.
>> Muireadhach (18:26):
Versus if like you're at a baptist church like us, it's believer's
baptism. So even how we're talking about with our kids, right. It's
just like, well, we're wanting to see that them taking that step or even me
with a rededication versus some other denominations that
would like. No, they're part of the church. So we're going to
do this thing. We're going to baptize them into the church and then through
the church they'll have a generally where
(18:46):
you'd have like a confirmation, right. Later. Yeah, like, so
you're baptized into this. Now you confirm that you're actually part of it.
Yeah.
>> Chris (18:52):
And Paul doesn't pull this out of nowhere either. And
I'm glad that Hyzer kind of took it that way because
there's wording of all this in the Old Testament.
Jeremiah four four has circumcise yourselves to the
Lord. Circumcise your hearts, you people of Judah and
the inhabitants of Jerusalem, or my wrath will
flare up and burn like a fire because the evil you
(19:12):
have done. And then in deuteronomy, it's the same thing. The Lord your
God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your
descendants so that you will love him with all your heart,
with all your soul, and with all your life. So,
he's not just making these connections because he's
like pulling them out of thin air. What circumcision has to do with
baptism? Because here he's saying like, the
(19:32):
circumcision of the flesh was a symbol,
but there's going to be a moment where the circumcision of your heart where it
becomes more. And I'm glad you brought up the like, not everyone
who is circumcised was saved
because. Yeah, that's where the exile kicked in. We even have
the story of Moses, And as he's headed
back to deliver the people, the angel
stands in front of him and then the wife throws, is it the foreskin
(19:55):
of the kids at his feet? And
she's like, this is why this guy was gonna, the angel was gonna kill
you because you're not even following through completely.
So it's an important thing. But it is that thing that
Heiser says. It's what made people part of God's
kingdom. And in order to be part of God's kingdom, there
had to be a rebirth, in a sense, a new creation
(20:15):
that allowed you to be part of that.
>> Muireadhach (20:17):
So this is my interjection. People like to use,
exceptions to the rules to try and like bend the
norms. What about the thief on the cross?
The thief on the cross gets pulled into so many different
things about like, well no, this is really
bare bones. It like, what's actually essential for the thing. And
just like, that's not the norm that we're called to follow.
(20:38):
Is God's grace there for somebody in that situation?
You know, deathbed, confession, all that? Like, absolutely. And God's good,
so he'll do that. But like, for those of us
that are like
experiencing life in general of like,
what most of us do, here's what we should be doing, right,
of having the, having the baptism. Because you just said entering
(20:59):
into the kingdom. So like what? So the thief didn't enter into the kingdom.
>> Chris (21:01):
Right. Right.
>> Muireadhach (21:02):
You said that he'd be with him in paradise. Like guys,
how many fingers does your hand have?
>> Chris (21:07):
Do you want me to answer that?
>> Muireadhach (21:08):
Yeah.
>> Chris (21:08):
Okay. Five.
>> Muireadhach (21:09):
Did you know some people have six?
>> Chris (21:11):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (21:12):
Okay. go buy some gloves. How many fingers are on it?
Like, it's like I'm sure that there are six fingered gloves for people
too. But you know what I mean? It's just like what's the actual norm within the
situation? And we don't want to take the thing that's not the norm to try and
underpin.
>> Chris (21:24):
Right. To undo all of this, everything that's been
laid out. Because it is laid out pretty
clearly. then we also have the crossing of the Red Sea is
another illusion of it. The crossing of the red sea
or the sea of reeds. By the Israelites.
it's interesting. What I found here is that the
Egyptians believed that the sea of reeds, had to be crossed
in order to get to the afterlife, so that they would offer, like,
(21:47):
gems to their gods and everything. And here, again, where the Bible
is like, no, we're going to show you what the truth is.
The Israelites crossing, they moved from death to life
in the water. You know, that's the illusion there.
the same first corinthians says this, for I do want, I
don't want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our
ancestors were all under the cloud and they
(22:08):
all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into
Moses in the cloud of the sea. So Paul's,
again, making that connection of this moment was that, which
really there?
>> Muireadhach (22:17):
I mean, on that one, it's so where was
Moses and the Israelites leaving? M Egypt,
right? Slavery, oppression, flesh, like, all
the things that Egypt represents. So, like, okay,
you've been freed from that place and now
you're going. But it's not like God was like, oh, cool, you're
free. Like, just go on now. It's like, no, Egypt
(22:37):
was following them. Like, what was the path
forward? It's like they had to die. They had to be
baptized through how you're saying, like, this is the entrance to the underworld, right? So
it's like they had to go in that, through that, and then to the other
side, which was the promised land. So when you're looking at baptism, like, you've been
freed from your sins, the enemy
is not for that. Your flesh still doesn't want to submit to
(22:57):
that. So, like, what's the path forward into? Like, the blessed life that God
is giving you? Baptism. You gotta die to what
was before. Like, yeah. All of these things that are here is just
like, God is so intricate, like,
the real history of what was going on with the people
and then how that ties into something like baptism,
it's just crazy, like, how intricate that is. Yeah.
>> Chris (23:18):
And there's all these little clues that get dropped into, like, all these
illusions, too. the next one I had
was, entering the promised land through the Jordan again,
crossing through a sea. But this is after 40 years
of wandering in the wilderness. And the wilderness
is looked at as well. That's the evil. That's the
Badlands, right? Like, in most cases of the Bible.
>> Muireadhach (23:37):
Like, what is it?
>> Chris (23:38):
The goats to azale. And the bad goat
go to Isael is going into the wilderness. So out of the
wilderness, into the promised land. Again,
it's a picture of what happens with baptism.
It's taking the world out of us. It's taking the
wilderness out of us, the chaos and bringing us into this
new life with God. And then Nahum is
(23:59):
another one who had leprosy. And Elijah tells him to dip seven
times in the Jordan to, cleanse himself. And
he does it, and now he's clean and
it's again, this uncleanness that now gets removed from
him.
>> Muireadhach (24:12):
And that one I like, the one of Nahum, which is a
crazy story. Go, go and look at it like it's cool.
But yeah, that dip, right? That dip is the
immersion. So like he went and he immersed himself in,
into the river there and coming out.
Yeah, his, leprosy was gone.
So whereas you have like, the ritualistic cleansing, they're just
(24:33):
like, oh, you're ritually unclean, but here you have an
illness that's being miraculously taken
away as well. And when I look at these things of like,
okay, these things are all building towards,
baptism. And where,
again, ritualistic has nothing to do with morality, right?
And even a skin condition is
(24:53):
external. So you're looking at these things being washed
away. When we get into baptism in the New
Testament, it does shift to
the moral thing because what
you have in, I guess, Mark and
John, maybe Matthew, is
that when they're going down into the
water, they're confessing their sins.
(25:16):
So either they confess their sins beforehand or when they're in the water, they're confessing
their sins and being baptized. Like they're
repenting and being baptized for the remission of the
forgiveness of those. So now it's turned into a
moral thing. And when they're going down into the water,
what before was happening on the external
now is happening on the internal to where it's just like,
(25:37):
oh, leprosy gets washed away, but now it's
like guilt is getting washed
away. You know what I mean? And just the image of that, of like,
what was happening before isn't what's happening
now. And that's just a cool thing for me
to like, oh, now it's going deeper. Like, yes,
it's the physical representation of you're going down into
the water, but yeah, what God is doing with
(25:59):
that is like, yeah, cleansing you on a whole
different level.
>> Chris (26:02):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (26:03):
I think that Peter, would talk about that.
You go and you have baptism so that you can have a clear conscience before
God. Right. Knowing that you've been forgiven,
which is a whole other thing. Certain denominations say that
it is baptism which cleanses you of your
sins, that that's where the forgiveness and the cleansing happens. So it's
like you can come to God, you can believe in him,
(26:23):
you can repent, but it's not till you're actually
baptized that the sins are actually washed away and put
into remission. And there's several verses that
phrase it that way. So again, it's just like, I can get where the different
denominations understand these things differently.
But regardless, that washing away that's happening,
like, I just think that's so cool. Cause to think of
Naaman with leprosy, right. And just like a decaying
(26:46):
skin condition to realize like, oh, that's like, what sin is on
my soul. Yeah, but like, how am I gonna get, like, leprosy? There's
no cure for leprosy. Like, what are you going to do? And to realize,
like, sin in my life. Like, what's the cure for that thing? Like, what are you going to
do? So when you take these things, it's just like, well, you're repenting and you're
believing, you're going into these waters of death and
like, that is taking away
(27:06):
the. Sin that's there. Like, it's so cool.
>> Chris (27:09):
Yeah. Ah, that story in general too is like, like, he
wasn't going to do it because he's like, why am I going to go washing this filthy.
>> Muireadhach (27:14):
And this guy's just like, just might as well do it. You're already here.
>> Chris (27:17):
Yeah. the next example is Noah's ark, where the
people, and the earth have been so corrupted
by sin. And we've covered this in the excluded
books of the Bible, in the Enoch story. but to
get more context in depth. But it's basically so
God sends the flood to end creation but saves Noah.
And here we see the judgment of sin. The judgment
(27:37):
was the flood, the water that covered the earth. and when the
water went away, the earth was a new creation and
humanity started all over again with Noah.
and I got a little bit more with Noah, but I'll save that towards the
end. but these are the connections that I think that
John, was starting to make when he began baptizing
people, and doing it the way that we understand it
and do it today. it was basically all
(28:00):
these things, all these old Testament illusions
that, led him to saying, like, let's do this. And it's interesting
too that he started in the Jordan or that's where
his ministry was. because the Jordan had such a
big role in a lot of the things. And we talked about the. Into the
promised land was through the Jordan. So again, it's taking the
people who, in a sense, as they're coming to be
(28:20):
baptized, who were corrupted by the roman
society, who were kind of living within the world and saying,
hey, if you want to be part of God's kingdom, we've got to
go through the Jordan again to get into the promised land
of being in God's family. So
there's a lot of connections here with it. I do want to
look at the little verses that we kind of tackled. You
(28:40):
got something else?
>> Muireadhach (28:41):
I'm just gonna say, I know that when I was talking about, like, oh, coming out of
Egypt, and then you go through and you're in the promised land, and then you immediately
went into, like, oh, through the Jordan, get into the promised land. For anybody
listening, the confusion is it's
through the Jordan into the promised land. I did
a hop, skip and a jump of going to that.
So clarification, they are two different rivers. They
(29:01):
were on the journey to get to that place. If they would have just been
obedient to God and said, cool, we can go in, then it would have been
that second crossing. But yeah, there's 40 years in the middle.
So yes, they were going to promised land, but technically
going through the Jordan is what got them there. Although the
Red Sea was also a step towards it. Yes.
>> Chris (29:19):
so we see that John baptizes
Jesus.
>> Muireadhach (29:23):
Ah.
>> Chris (29:23):
And Luke sees this as the climax of John's
ministry. this is kind of like the crescendo
of everything that John was doing. if John
was the herald, of the king, announcing to the people that
the king is coming, then Jesus being baptized is
the anointing of the king. So this is Jesus being
anointed as king. the king is coming. The king is coming. And
now we're hearing, like, the king is here. So all of
(29:45):
the baptism was basically him heralding that
in, and it's interesting that Luke mentions this
and none of the others accounts, of Jesus
baptizing mentions, this, that Jesus was praying
while he was being baptized. I never caught that until I
did study that. No other ones
say it. And it's only here that he says, he was praying.
And this is the first of ten times that Luke's gospel
(30:08):
mentions Jesus praying. And that
again, I just love when, like, there's little, like,
things like that where it's over and over again or someone's really picking
up on something. and every time we see it,
it's a quick, It's just like this is always a gut check to
my own life of like, where's my prayer life? You
know, that's a side note. But three things
(30:29):
happened.
>> Muireadhach (30:29):
That's just us as friends.
>> Chris (30:30):
Yeah, that's just.
>> Muireadhach (30:31):
I'll follow up.
>> Chris (30:32):
After three things happened, during this baptism, the heavens
opened up, the spirit descended on Jesus,
and then God spoke, which are
all really interesting, things here. So the heavens
opening up is kind of echoes. Isaiah 64
one. and it's interesting because it starts off with the
phrase in that day. and then the he, and then
moves into heavens being opened up, which
(30:55):
if going back to our not,
excluded, forgotten books of the bible series, where
all of them had that in that day, in the day,
anytime. I read that now all I can think of. Day of the Lord.
So day of the Lord here Isaiah saying, in that day,
and then the heavens opened up. It's the day of the Lord. and here we
see the same thing where it's the heavens opened up. So it's kind of
(31:16):
tying those two together. But, it allowed the holy spirit
to descend. it was in bodily form of a
dove. Indicates that the spirit had an outward appearance of a
dove. This is one of those ones, again, that's like, can be
twisted or looked at in all the weird ways.
>> Muireadhach (31:30):
Yeah. So it's interesting here because. Yeah,
you get into the different people who talk about it.
It does mention here in Luke in a
bodily form, which when you get into the language there
and you have bodily. I think it's like somatika coming
from soma, or soma meaning body. And it's just
like, that is actual, like corporal
(31:50):
body, like having a bodily form.
So that is interesting that coming down from heaven,
like, was a body coming down like
something physical and corporal coming down to come
upon Jesus. But then it's saying
like a dove. Yeah, and that, like a
dove. That's where it's like, okay, well, did it
(32:11):
look like a dove? Is dove representing like, like the
meekness and gentleness and like that kind of thing?
I'm more just like something physical
just came out of heaven and landed on this. Like, I'm
more on that. Okay, it looks like a dove. It acts like
a, like whatever you're trying to say, like, y'all are just standing
in a river and the heavens opened up, you hear a voice
(32:33):
and something comes from heaven and lands on this man.
It doesn't matter what it looks like.
I mean, it matters to a point. That's why. That's why it's there. But,
like, yeah, I would be inclined.
>> Chris (32:44):
To agree with you on that 100% that there was something
physically that happened. it reminds me of revelation,
a lot, because in revelation, you get, it was
so, this is what it was. And then John then goes,
it was like. And obviously, the like is
like that at his time, was the only thing he could make the connection
to. And just thinking here, if,
(33:05):
Luke is an eyewitness and he's getting this from eyewitness
accounts, this is probably. It was like a dove,
and maybe someone was thinking Genesis one, two, where the
spirit was hovering above the water like a bird, and
kind of making those connections. But like you said, it could be
so many reasons, like the purity of Jesus, like, the
dove is pure. and, all that. So,
(33:25):
yeah, I would agree that it's something
physically burst out of heaven,
and that was their only
way they could make it make sense.
>> Muireadhach (33:35):
Can I go on a little sidetrack before we get to the
blow of sun? Because I know that you're getting to that one next. I don't know if you have anything
on this. or if I'm just gonna go solo,
but before, when we were talking about John's baptism,
right? So he's baptizing, as we said, repentance,
forgiveness of sins, and that's what he's got going on. But
when he talks about, hey, the one that's gonna come, because you were saying he's preparing
(33:55):
the way for the one, here's the king, and, like, here's the anointing of
the king. You can look at it that way. But he was
saying, I'm baptizing you with water. He's
going to baptize you with the holy spirit and with fire.
And to my knowledge, Jesus didn't
baptize anyone during his ministry, right. He never
took anyone to a river like what John was doing. Now. John was
(34:16):
still alive after this point, and he kept baptizing people. And later
on, you get to acts, and you have people who were baptized in John's
baptism. And then Paul would be like,
okay, well, you need to be baptized in what Jesus has going
on. So it's an interesting thing. Jesus didn't baptize
anybody, but then go to the great commission. He
told his followers to go and baptize people into his
name in the name of the Father, the Son, and spirit.
(34:38):
But that thing about baptizing with fire and why it was the connection
for me is like, okay, heaven's opened up and something
like a dove comes onto Jesus when
you get the day of Pentecost. Right. So this is
after the resurrection, which the new covenant that Jesus
is coming to do is like the covenant of the Holy Spirit. So, like, he's going
to baptize you with the Holy Spirit. That didn't happen
(34:58):
during Jesus lifetime, right? Well, I guess
technically it did. Cause he was resurrected and he has life. You get what I mean?
>> Chris (35:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Earthly.
>> Muireadhach (35:06):
He was still on earth.
>> Chris (35:08):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (35:08):
You get what I mean? Anyways, like, he. It's when they're in the
room and again, descending from heaven
is something like flames or
tongues of fire coming down. And that
baptizing of fire and the Holy Spirit, that
happens at that point. just the difference in
like, what's coming down from heaven and what that is. And
the call back to like, here's how he's gonna baptize you.
>> Chris (35:30):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (35:31):
And like, that was the follow up. Is that, like,
that's when that happened?
>> Chris (35:35):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (35:36):
just because we're talking about baptizing and Jesus, and like,
John says he's gonna baptize you and then you kind of don't see
that for a minute. And even when that happens,
he's. Yeah, he's up in heaven sitting on the throne, so he's not
taking somebody and putting them in water.
>> Chris (35:49):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (35:50):
Yeah.
>> Chris (35:50):
It's interesting because I never thought of that either. So that's why I was sitting here
thinking as you're talking about, like, what? No, Jesus
didn't baptize anybody. Then my mind went
like, man, if you were baptized by Jesus, wouldn't have that been the coolest
thing ever, which is probably why no one was
baptized.
>> Muireadhach (36:05):
By Jesus, which is also where Paul is just like, y'all are
fighting who baptized? I'm glad I didn't actually.
I did baptize two of you guys. But beyond that, like, that's
not what this is about.
>> Chris (36:15):
Yeah, yeah. Cause that's not what it's about. And it was about
that fire, that second baptism of the holy
spirit and all of them making, I think, just its illusion
to an illusion to an illusion to get to that big
moment of what that is. God
speaks. So this is the first time God speaks
in the New Testament.
>> Muireadhach (36:33):
You're all about these firsts during this series. You've really
been pulling out a lot of first.
>> Chris (36:37):
They're interesting because they make me understand things
differently. And with this, his first words are,
you are my son, whom I love.
With you I am well pleased. This is before Jesus
has done anything. None of the
miracles, none of the ministry,
the water to wine, the teaching, the preaching, the death on the
cross before he's done anything.
(37:00):
God says, you are my son. With you, I am well
pleased. and I love you. To me,
that's more of a personal thing than a teaching
thing of like, how God can love us
before we've even done anything. and it just shows his love
there. but this lets us know who Jesus is
from gabriel, Elizabeth, Zechariah, the heavenly
(37:20):
host, Simeon and Anna, all saying
this. Now we get like, this big confirmation
of, this is my son with
who.
>> Muireadhach (37:29):
Am I 30 years later?
>> Chris (37:30):
Yeah, yeah. The follow up to all of that,
and I think
Luke's using all those to set the
groundwork for this moment.
>> Muireadhach (37:41):
Yeah, I think that as well. I, wanted to
confirm that. I think that, but I also had another thought of,
you're saying, like, before he's done anything. I think that
really what sets Jesus apart, though,
is like, he actually has done
so much. Like, you lamed
off, like, all these miraculous things that are gonna come, but we go back
(38:02):
to, like, twelve year old Jesus didn't. You know, I'm m about my
father's business. He submitted himself to
obedience under his parents. It's just like he's a,
loved son, and he's well pleased because he's been
faithful to his father. He's been obedient up until this
point, which isn't to take away from, like, God loves us even.
Like, he loved us even when we were sinners. Like, he sent
Jesus to die for us. Right. So it's not taking away, like,
(38:24):
God doesn't love you because you haven't been
perfect. Right. But that's where
I get this is like, this marks Jesus apart, obviously, Jesus
marked apart because this is happening. It's like,
yeah, he was sinless. When you look at, like, this is
my son. Like, the firstborn son, my only
begotten son. You know, all those things are just like, yeah,
(38:44):
he's, he's the special one. And I just want to play
off that. Like, he hadn't done anything yet. And just like, he did the quote
unquote boring thing.
>> Chris (38:51):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (38:52):
Obedience of just living life
obediently.
>> Chris (38:56):
Yeah. Being circumcised on the 8th day,
all.
>> Muireadhach (39:00):
This stuff, listening to mom and dad.
>> Chris (39:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's a good point.
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (39:05):
Which just is like, God is pleased with just
going to that personal thing. Why, that's a personal thing for me. Like, don't think
that God's not pleased with you because amazing things aren't happening in your
life. Just go live a.
But doesn't, say in scripture, like, hey, just go live a quiet, good life.
Yeah, all this crazy stuff
doesn't have to happen. Just go be obedient to God. Live a quiet life, love the people around
(39:25):
you, and, like, it's not a confirmation by all of the
extra stuff. Like, yeah, you get to the end, and well
done.
>> Chris (39:32):
Yeah. It made me think of, Jesus talking
about. I don't know if it's when he hands out
the parable of the,
money, and then some people bury it, some people put
it in deposit, whatever it is. and then it's, at the end
of it. Those who are faithful in the little will
be given much. and I. I don't
(39:52):
know. I'm pretty sure this is just me making odd
connections. But you talking about, like, well, he was
obedient in the little. Before the big came.
>> Muireadhach (40:00):
Right.
>> Chris (40:01):
If, as he's saying that, that's personalized. Like,
I live this life. I, ah, know that being
faithful in the little, then God will entrust you
with much more.
>> Muireadhach (40:11):
Dang. Yeah.
>> Chris (40:13):
Again, could be reading a little bit much into it, but I like what
you're reading.
>> Muireadhach (40:17):
I'll read that book.
>> Chris (40:17):
Yeah. I did
read, in a commentary, that this, is kind of a
pooling of psalms two. this you are my
son thing. And that's why do the nations
conspire and the people plot in vain? The kings of the earth
rise up, and the rulers, and rulers together
against the lord and against his anointed, saying,
let us break their chains and throw off their shackles. The
(40:39):
anointed or the one enthroned and one is capitalized?
The one enthroned in heaven lasts. The lord scoffs at
them. He rebukes them in anger and terrifies them in
his wrath, saying, I have installed my king on Zion,
my holy mountain. I will proclaim the lord's
decree. He said to me, you are my son. Today I have
become your father. so
(41:00):
you see this like, this old Testament kind of, callback?
because here, the way David's talking in the psalm, it's obviously
not david being writing about
himself. He's writing about someone to come and a king
that will sit on Zion on the holy
mountain.
>> Muireadhach (41:15):
But psalm two was
used as a coronation psalm in ancient
Israel.
>> Chris (41:21):
Oh, okay.
>> Muireadhach (41:22):
Did you know that, so like when a king was being corona.
Coronation. When a king was becoming king.
>> Chris (41:26):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (41:27):
I don't know what the past tense of coronation is coordinated. That's all
I could think of my life.
yeah. So when a king was being installed, that
psalm would be read during the coronation service.
>> Chris (41:39):
Oh, that's interesting.
>> Muireadhach (41:40):
So the idea was that the psalm would remind the davidic king
of his calling to represent God's rule on earth and everything else
that kind of comes with that. So even here, that's
where, when you said earlier, they're like, oh, he's the king.
And this was like his anointing, I thought that you were making the call back to that
because.
>> Chris (41:55):
No, not yet.
>> Muireadhach (41:56):
No saying. And that callback
is what that means.
>> Chris (41:59):
Yeah.
>> Muireadhach (42:00):
So yes, he's the son, but it's also like, here's
the king.
>> Chris (42:04):
Yeah. And then you have. That's what God says, you are my son
today. So it's the,
>> Muireadhach (42:07):
So it's like, yeah, the fulfillment of, like you were saying, like, yeah,
he's looking to a future one. It's like, so here is the future one. But
also in practice, this is what you would say
for a king.
>> Chris (42:17):
Yeah, that's pretty cool. No, I didn't make those two connections. I just had
those random notes on my, my thing. the other
thing is, if we look at this, like God's message every time he
speaks audibly in the new testament, the transfiguration,
I, think it's when Jesus, is in the garden, he speaks
again. They're all doing the same thing, declaring
that this is my son and I'm well pleased with him.
(42:39):
It's, over and over again, this is my son, who I'm well
pleased. So it is just this
God highly speaking of who Jesus is,
and confirming with everybody,
this is the king, he's here. The savior that you're looking for,
the one you're trying to find, the one you've been waiting for,
here he is over and over again. for the most
(43:00):
part, that's all I have. and then I have some stuff on Noah
that I got from Hyzer as well.
>> Muireadhach (43:05):
I want to hear that. But also, as you were
talking about, the well pleased. And just
like, well pleased, well pleased. There's the concept
of Jesus being the second
Adam. Right, right. And looking at
the new creation and kind of taking things back there, and I
think about when Adam and Eve are created and God
says, very good, that seems like a
(43:27):
well pleased. So now when we're looking at, like,
this new creation for humanity.
And he's saying, like, yeah, look, here's my son.
I'm well pleased. And just kind of, I don't know, I'm
making that kind of restoration. When we're entering
into a Christ like life, we're going back to like,
yeah, it's very good, you know, being
(43:47):
made back into not just like the image of
God, but back into the likeness of God.
>> Chris (43:52):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (43:53):
And, like, that's where he's well pleased with that. Okay,
noah.
>> Chris (43:56):
I like that. That was really cool. so this again, something I heard
from Heiser. It's from first Peter
318 to 22. and
basically, I'll read it. It says, for Christ also suffered once
for sins, the righteous and the unrighteous, to bring you to
God. He was put to death in the body, but made
alive in the spirit. After being made alive, he
(44:16):
went and made proclamation to the imprisoned
spirits, to those who were disobedient. Long
ago, when God waited patiently in the days of
Noah, while the ark was being built in it, only a few
people, eight in all, were saved through the water. And this
water symbolized baptism that now saves you
also. Not the removal of dirt from your
body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward,
(44:39):
God. It saves you by the resurrection of
Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at
God's right hand with angels, authorities, powers and submission
to him. So I'm just going to read his
answer. but this is his response to all of this,
because he asked, if we follow what we read, and
wondered what it has to do with baptism, the ark, knowing the prison
(44:59):
stuff, like, what does all this have to do with this concept?
So he says in Genesis six, there's a connection with two,
Peter and Jude. These texts refer to the jewish
tradition and the book verse Enoch describing fallen
angels imprisoned in the underworld. Enoch, a
biblical prophet, was asked by the angels to intercede
for them, but God denied their appeal. Their
imprisonment is until the end of time. Peter
(45:22):
sees a, theological connection between Genesis six
events and the gospels resurrection. Jesus, like
Enoch, descended, to announce defeat to the
fallen angels, emphasized in one Peter. What I just
read, this victory declaration is why baptism
is, linked to this concept.
Baptism symbolizes a pledge of loyalty to the
(45:42):
risen savior and serves as a reminder to the
defeated angels. It's a public declaration
of loyalty. In the cosmic war between good and evil,
baptism in early christian understanding is
a form of spiritual warfare against the fallen angels in
Genesis six. So, here he sees baptism
as this connection between, our proclamation and
(46:02):
declaration to the evil principalities, the
rulers of the world, that we belong to
God.
And I really love that because I
never got that connection to it. I would look
at it as growing up again talking about how we grew up
knowing baptism as just the symbolic thing
of it's just a symbol, it's like a wedding
(46:22):
ring. and a lot of people say that, and I
get it for basic understanding. but at
some point there's got to be a deeper understanding of why this
has been a tradition that's been kept going on and on. And I just
love that this was, our loyalty to
the principalities of saying
we're on God's side now.
>> Muireadhach (46:41):
Yeah. Ever since I came across that, I've started integrating
that. Not a lot because it's hard for new believers to
kind of get fully onto that, but I'll, I'll bring some of
that up. When kind of counseling people through who are getting ready to get
baptized, I'm like, a lot of people are like, I don't want to get up there in
front of everybody and all this stuff. I'm like, well, little do you
know, you're getting up in front of
(47:02):
a lot more than just the people sitting in the chairs. And here's why it's
such a good thing. and really like, hey, like, why is it that you're
wanting to follow Jesus? Like, what's going on there? It's just like,
yeah, you're wanting to get away from the life that you're living. Like, this is the
moment of declaration. And like, to kind of
just take all the things that we talked about was like, yeah, you're going to look at a declaration
of loyalty. There's like, no, I'm done with
(47:22):
following any thing other than Jesus.
I'm declaring that, and in declaring that, I'm
going to show that by going down into the waters
and basically going, I'm dying to. Everything that was
there, that person who was following that person is not even alive
anymore to follow. Like when I come up out of those waters,
I'm a new person and everything is following
(47:42):
God. And in that, like,
that actually is a real thing that takes
place because I'm actually forgiven.
And I'm received the holy spirit that
is making me Christ, like, to where I am a child of God. Right. Jesus says
for all who believe, he gives the right to become children of God. So it's just
like so much there
(48:03):
within like baptism. I know I'm stretching a little bit outside of
baptism towards this. Like, a lot of people look at it
like, well, I believe, like, do I really need to do that? And it's
like, man, with the proper
perspective on it. I mean, it's good even if you don't
have all this stuff. But, like, if this isn't enticing
you to go, like, yeah,
(48:23):
I do want that. Like, let me step fully into
that.
>> Chris (48:27):
Right.
>> Muireadhach (48:28):
it should. I would hope that it would.
>> Chris (48:30):
Yeah. That's why I think it's important. Like, I know we could get caught up,
and I love that you brought in the, the thief,
on the cross as people's ways of saying, like, well,
I don't need to do the thing because it's just symbolic anyways.
And I know in my heart it's different. But
what really, through the studying and things that I've done
and what we presented is a
(48:50):
glimpse of what's really out there. We're trying to do
something in 60 minutes. And,
really, this could be like hours and hours and hours of
study to get to an understanding. But what,
what baptism does is
way more important than where it came from,
in my opinion. because what it does is it removes a
(49:10):
person from the world, the world system of evil,
the source of sin that's in our lives, the way of thinking. Like the
world, that we need to be purified from the way of life
we've been living. And all its residue that's on
us, it's a declaration of spiritual warfare, saying
that we are on God's team, we are on his
side. It's the beginning of membership in the family of God, just
like how we saw circumcision. And then finally, and this is
(49:33):
the best part, it makes us co heirs with Christ.
All the promises of Christ, all the promises given to him,
the well done. This is my son. With whom am I well
pleased. All of that falls onto us,
and that's why baptism is so important. again,
we did our best to bring up ideas and concepts from the Old Testament
to see how they connect to the New Testament and
(49:54):
why John started doing it. But to me, I think
what it actually does is more important than where it
came from. and that's all I got. What do you got?
>> Muireadhach (50:02):
I don't have a lot to say. I already kind of said my big thing, but a couple things
just off of the way more important with what it does.
Paul really looks at like,
baptism being the defining event of
salvation. And cause a lot of it was just like, okay, you might say that
you believe, but it's when you're confessing and repenting and
being baptized, it's just like, that's really taking
(50:23):
that step and like, that's a defining moment. And
in that, he uses that
event as a callback as part of his argument for
why sin is inappropriate in the life of a believer. If you
look at Romans six one four, that disunity
among believers is not permissible. First Corinthians
110 13. Then again in chapter twelve, that,
gentiles are Abraham's children, Galatians three. Kind
(50:45):
of how you're talking about joint heirs and you're coming into the family.
or that one should remain free of human philosophy and traditions.
And that's in Colossians two. So kind of this event
of baptism, Paul, when he's like, remember how you guys are
baptized? That's why this thing is a different
thing. But, yeah, I feel like that really
is more on the entry point. It's the entry point into like, cool, you've
done that. You're in. That's why this whole thing changes.
>> Chris (51:08):
Yeah, yeah. So what do we got? Next
episode?
>> Muireadhach (51:11):
next episode, jesus
takes a, cheek swab, sends it off, and we
get the results back from his, 23 andme.
>> Chris (51:19):
Yeah, we're gonna look at the genealogy of Jesus.
>> Muireadhach (51:22):
Yeah, that'll be fun.
>> Chris (51:23):
That will be so, I'm Chris.
>> Muireadhach (51:24):
I'm, Muireadhach
>> Chris (51:25):
We are your church friends. Thanks for listening.
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