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October 14, 2025 16 mins

If you’re second-guessing your pacing, give your turning point this two-part check.

Where the heck is the turning point?

If you’ve ever tried to spot the turning point in a story you love, you’ve probably asked some version of this question.

I always feel like I’m playing that old children’s video game: Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego?

(In my imagination, the turning point is captured in shadowy profile, wearing a red hat with a wide brim.) (this is also called, tell me you’re a 90s baby without telling me you’re a 90s baby.)

Anyway. When you’re analyzing someone else’s story, it feels like a hunt for something you just can’t spot.

When you’re analyzing your own story, it feels like second-guessing your pacing.

Did you put the turning point in the right spot? Is it happening too early? Too late? Will the reader get bored waiting for it to happen? Or have you rushed something critical?

If any of those questions sound familiar, you won’t want to miss this episode.

It’s all about where in the story the turning point is located—and yes, this question is complicated enough to require an entire episode to unpack.

You’ll hear:

  • 2 guiding principles I use for the location of every turning point
  • Where the turning point is located in a novel, novella, and scene—and why those can be different places
  • What happens when you move the turning point earlier or later
  • Whether the turning point and the midpoint are ever the same point
  • And more!

You know what the turning point is—the moment that makes it clear the protagonist cannot achieve their goal in the way they wanted to.

You know what it does—it forces the protagonist into a crisis choice.

And now, you’ll know where to look for it—and where to put it in your own stories.

Links mentioned in the episode:

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Where the heck is the turningpoint?

(00:03):
You know what the turning pointis?
It's the moment.
It makes it clear theprotagonist cannot achieve their
goal in the way that they wantedto.
And you know what it does?
It forces the protagonist into acrisis choice.
But where is it?
Where is it?
In the books that you'rereading, the movies you're
watching, are you spotting itcorrectly or are you confusing

(00:27):
it with other major disruptiveevents?
And where is it in your story?
Have you put it in the rightplace?
Or is the balance off?
Is it happening too early or toolate?
If you've ever wondered whetheryou're getting the pacing of
your story right?
This is an important question toanswer, and the answer is, well,

(00:47):
it's less straightforward thanyou'd think.
So let's unpack it.
We'll look at all the places theturning point can be.
We'll explore how shifting thelocation of the turning point in
any segment of the story impactsthe emphasis of that segment.
And I'll give you two guidingprinciples to help you make sure
that your turning point ishappening in the exact right

(01:08):
spot.

(01:57):
Welcome to your next draft.
Where in the story does theturning point appear?
This feels like it should be asimple question, but every time
I tried to write out a simpleanswer, I found so many
exceptions that it felt like thesimple answer was immediately
invalidated, so I decided tomake a whole episode out of it.

(02:18):
Where does the turning pointappear?
Let's find out.
I've got two principles for you.
The first principle to know isthat the six elements of story
always appear in order.
Inciting incident, progressivecomplications, turning point,
crisis, climax resolution.
this means that the turningpoint always appears at the end

(02:41):
of the progressive complicationsand before the crisis and
climax.
Woo.
That's an easy measurement.
One down.
now for the second one.
The next principle is the longerthe story is, the more fixed the
location of the turning pointis.
As the story or the segment ofstory gets shorter, the location

(03:02):
of the turning points I havefound gets more flexible.
So in a novel or a featurelength film, the turning point
is usually going to be aroundthe 70 to 75% mark.
That's fairly consistent.
You might find it a little bitearlier than that or a little
later than that, but it'sprobably going to be pretty
close to 75%.

(03:24):
If you pause the movie at the75% mark or flip the book open
about three quarters of the waythrough, you're probably
somewhere in the ballpark of theturning point.
Take Pride and Prejudice by JaneAusten, which is roughly 120,000
words.
If you listen to the lastepisode of your next draft,
which is all about what theturning point is, then you know

(03:45):
Elizabeth Bennett's goal.
She wants X to marry for lovewithout y admitting she is
wrong.
And the turning point of prideand prejudice is when Lydia runs
off with Wickham.
That is when it becomesinescapably clear that Elizabeth
cannot X without Y.

(04:06):
There is no marrying for lovewithout admitting she was wrong.
That happens at the 70% mark,right in our 70 to 75% range.
Okay?
Now what if we shrink it downfrom a full length novel to a
novella?
A full length novel is typicallyaround 80,000 words.

(04:27):
Could be shorter, could be a lotlonger, but a novella is no
longer than 50,000 words.
Stephen King's novella, RitaHayworth and Shawshank
Redemption is roughly 40,000words, so about a third of the
length of pride and prejudice.
I won't tell you the full storyof Shaw and Redemption here, but
the basics go like so.

(04:48):
Andy Dre's wife and her loverare shot and killed in the
inciting incident of the story,Andy is convicted of the double
murder and sentenced to life inShawshank Prison.
his goal is that he wants X, hisfreedom without y defying the
system.
Which would put him on the wrongside of the law and prevent him

(05:10):
from returning to his normallife.
Prison life is hard, but after afew years he figures out how to
make it work well enough.
But on page 55, the narratorread tells us this.
Maybe you'll understand why theman spent about 10 months in
oblique depressed days.
See, I don't think he knew thetruth until 19 63, 15 years

(05:35):
after he came into this sweetlittle hellhole, until he met
Tommy Williams.
I don't think he knew how bad itcould get.
Red is bracing us for theturning point.
The event that makes it clear toAndy that X without why is not
possible because Tommy Williamsis a new inmate who's
transferred to Shawshank, and healso happens to know who

(05:59):
actually killed Andy's wife, Aman incarcerated in another
prison on different charges.
Andy believes that this is histicket out.
If he can find the other man,contact his own lawyer and build
a new trial.
With Tommy's testimony, he couldclear his name so he brings all
of this to the prison Warden andWarden Norton Has Tommy

(06:22):
transferred to another prisonand denies Andy the chance to
pursue a new trial.
Andy is not getting out ofShawshank by any legal means.
His ex without Y is anon-starter kaput.
It's very likely that it wasnever a real possibility in the
first place.

(06:43):
All of this happens betweenpages 53 and 69 of the book,
which is 111 pages long.
That means that it's a span fromabout 47% to 62%.
And that makes it a little bitearlier than our typical 70 to
75% mark, but we're going toneed the next 42 pages for the

(07:04):
crisis climax and resolution.
We have a lot of story left andnot much space left in this
novella.
Only about 15,000 words to coverit all.
you'll notice too that the 47%to 62% span covers something
else.
The mid points.
In a full length novel, theturning points and the midpoint

(07:25):
are not the same thing.
There's the midpoint at the 50%mark, and then there's the
turning point around the 70 to75% mark, and they serve two
different distinct roles in thestory, though I'll save those
differences for another episodeIn Shawshank Redemption, the
midpoint and the turning pointsare the same sequence.

(07:49):
I am not an expert in novellas.
Most stories that I work withare full length novels, but my
hypothesis is that as youcontract the word count, the
turning point and the midpointcan squish together into one
moment.
So in a novella where the wordcount is under 50,000 words, The
midpoint and the turning pointsmight be the same moment, even

(08:09):
though they won't be in a fulllength novel.
Now, what about when we go evensmaller than the novella?
What about when we go down tothe scene level?
Now we're talking about asegment of story that's
typically somewhere between 1000and 3000 words.
Remember, the six elements ofstory are fractal, so there's a

(08:29):
turning point here too.
Where does the turning pointfall in a scene?
Well here the space is evenshorter and the location of the
turning point gets even morevariable.
It can honestly range reallywidely.
It can fall at that 75% mark.
Again, It could fall at the 50%mark.

(08:50):
I don't measure a midpoint ofscenes, but the turning point
could happen right around themiddle.
It could even come before the50% mark.
Take the opening scene ofSeafire by Natalie C.
Parker.
Seafire is like a piratedystopia in the opening scene.
Caledonia and her family andfriends are sailing on a ship in

(09:11):
waters controlled by a tyrant.
They're planning to sneakthrough the tyrant's barrier
tonight and enter open watersand freedom.
But in order to do that, theyneed a lot of food because they
don't know what they'll find onthe other side.
So they anchor near an islandAnd in the inciting incidents of
this scene, Caledonia's mothertells her, you and your brother

(09:31):
prep for the short runcaledonia's goal is established.
She wants X to execute this mostimportant shore run of all
shore, runs the best that shecan without why disobeying her
mother.
If we take it one level deeperthan that, if we read between
the lines to see what'sunderneath the surface level

(09:53):
want Caledonia's goal becomes,she wants X to follow her own
intuition about what will makethis the best short run without
y disobeying her mother.
And there's an immediateconflict between Caledonia's
intuition and her mother'sorder.
Caledonia knows that her brotherwill be terrified all night if

(10:14):
he comes on the shore run.
So she negotiates with hermother to go with her friend
Pisces instead, and her motheragrees.
So Caledonia and Pisces sail forthe island.
They arrive safely and for awhile they gather food without
incident.
And then Caledonia alone on oneend of the island without
Pisces.

(10:34):
Here's footsteps.
They're not alone.
There's a bullet that is anenemy.
Child soldier here with them.
Caledonia knows the order thather mother would give.
Shoot first, but Caledonia hasnever killed anyone before, and
the bullet is a drugged childand she wants to save him, not

(10:56):
kill him.
Her intuition is telling her notto shoot that the best possible
short run is one where she savesa child soldier, not one where
she kills for the first time hermother is telling her to shoot.
That bullets are beyond savingand the danger is too great to
risk trying, and the bestpossible short run is the one

(11:16):
where she guarantees a safereturn to the ship.
That approach of the bullet isour turning point.
X without Y is not possible.
Caledonia cannot execute whatshe believes is the best
possible short run withoutbreaking her mother's rules.
It's either disobey her motheror compromise her own values.

(11:38):
So where is all this located?
That turning point happensroughly 31% into the scene.
The scene is 16 pages long andthe bullet walks into the scene
at the bottom of page five.
The next 44% of the scene is thecrisis.
Caledonia spends seven pagesweighing, shoot or don't shoot,

(12:00):
obey her mother, or follow herinstinct, protect her community,
or save a drugged child.
It is a really enormous internaldebate that sets up the moral
crisis Caledonia will wrestlewith for the entire rest of the
trilogy.
and the final 25% of the scene.
The last four pages are theclimax and resolution.

(12:22):
Note that in this scene, thecrisis is really, really long.
Not every crisis of every scenewill be this long.
They shouldn't all be this long,or your readers will start to
think that your protagonist'smain problem is their absolute
inability to make any decisionever.
But in this case, in thisspecific scene, this internal
debate sets the stage for theentire rest of the story.

(12:46):
It merits the page space.
And it also pushes the turningpoint earlier in the scene in
order to create space for thatlevel of debate.
Notice what happens when theturning point comes early.
This segment of story shifts itsemphasis from progressive
complications to the crisis.
Caledonia spends most of thescene wrestling with her choice,

(13:07):
not dealing with escalatingobstacles in the first part of
the scene.
Another impact that this couldhave, could still be a pretty
short crisis, but it could be areally long climax.
basically you're shifting theamount of page space that you're
giving to each of the sixelements.
you're shifting it away from theprogressive complications and
towards any of the elements thatcome later in the scene.

(13:29):
In contrast, when the turningpoint comes at 70%, like in
pride and prejudice, most of thestory emphasizes the progressive
complications.
All those obstacles andchallenges that make the stakes
of Elizabeth's crisis choiceclear before the turning point
hits, and she has to face thatchoice head on on the other end

(13:49):
of the spectrum, if we go backto the scene level, the turning
point can happen even later than75% of the way through the
scene.
They can happen really close tothe end for a quick crisis
climax resolution.
That would put a heavy emphasison the inciting incident and the
progressive complications andthe crisis climax and resolution
would make for a quick wrap upbefore we bump into the next

(14:10):
scene.
I'd say that this is a lesscommon pacing, but it is
possible.
I've also speculated that endinga chapter right after the
turning points of a scene couldbe one method for creating a
cliffhanger, But I haven'tstudied cliffhangers
extensively, so right now that'sjust speculation.
A little half-baked idea with aDoy middle for you.

(14:31):
the most common location for theturning point, though is
definitely around the 70 to 75%mark.
This is the case for both scenesand entire novels.
In novels.
It hovers near the end of thethird quadrant, the third act of
four act structure.
It's right there on the linethat's pushing us into Act four.

(14:51):
It feels kind of funny.
I will say that I've spent somuch more time unpacking the
flexibility of the turning pointthan I have on emphasizing
what's most common.
But I want to leave this as yourlanding place for this question.
The most common location for theturning point is around 70 to
75% through the story, and italways comes at the end of the

(15:13):
progressive complications andbefore the crisis.
So that is the long, long answerto the short question.
Where in the story does theturning point appear?
It also opens up anotherexcellent question.
one that I've heard fromlisteners and debated among
story grid editors.
Is there a difference betweenthe midpoint and the turning

(15:34):
point?
And if so, what is thedifference?
But that's a topic for adifferent episode.
If you spent this episodethinking, wait, what actually is
a turning point?
Well, you are in luck.
I answer that question in theprevious episode.
So just scroll one episode downin your feed and you'll find
that.
And if you've listened to thatepisode already, then you're now

(15:57):
armed with the knowledge both ofwhat the turning point is and
where in the story it falls.
And so I challenge you to gospot some turning points in
stories you love.
You've seen the turning point inPride and Prejudice, Shawshank
Redemption, and the openingscene of Seafire.
What other turning points canyou find?

(16:18):
And in future episodes we'll diginto what makes great Turning
Points work and where turningpoints go wrong.
Much more to come.
Until next time, happy editing.
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