October 2, 2025 • 48 mins
🚨 INDUSTRY REVELATION: While 95% of coaches face extinction by Christmas 2026, Marta Czajkowska and Nick Smith reveal the ONE thing AI can never replace - and it's not what you think.
In this game-changing conversation, discover:
- The human superpower that makes you irreplaceable in the AI era.
- Why "motion" isn't "progress" (and how most coaches are fooling themselves).
- How to overcome the inertia that's keeping you stuck while technology advances.
- The shocking truth about self-love being your greatest professional asset.
- Why adaptability beats intelligence every single time.
This isn't just about surviving AI. This is about thriving because of it.
🎯 READY TO BECOME AI-PROOF?
Join the Dream, Build, Write It Challenge - develop the human skills AI can never replicate: [https://www.dreambuildwriteit.com]
🤖 GUEST RESOURCES:
- Marta's AI coaching app "Innerverse" (in development)
- Nick Smith's "Art of Accomplishment"
- Your Ultimate Life Coaching University (January 2026 - Elite 5% only)
If you want to learn more about any of the projects discussed, reach out to us at https://www.yourultimatelifepodcast.com/contact
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the show.
Tired of the hype about livinga dream?
It's time for truth.
This is the place for tools,power and real talk, so you can create
the life you dream and deserveyour ultimate life.
Subscribe, share, create.
(00:24):
You have infinite power.
Hello, and welcome to thisepisode of your ultimate life.
This is a new series we'restarting on Thursdays, and this is
the second of what will bemany six months, maybe a year's worth,
and we'll see how long it goes.
The purpose of this is to talkabout coaching and AI.
(00:45):
I just finished a book that'llbe out by the time maybe this episode's
out, or not quite, calledCoaching in the Rise of AI.
And it's really to explorethis incredible new technology that
is causing a big change inmany industries.
But specifically, it's goingto impact coaching in an important
way.
And my goal is to have twopeople on each episode that I know
(01:07):
are in the coaching industry,either directly or peripherally,
who are experienced, just toget some thinking about it and some
conversation about it.
So some of the guests will beusing it, some not, and we're just
going to have a conversationabout it.
And so I've got MartaTchaikovska and Nick Smith with me
(01:29):
today.
Marta, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me.
Kellen.
Nick, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
Good to be here.
Cool.
So I'm going to start withsome questions, but we're going to
kind of move into justconversational format so you can
respond to each other as wellas me.
(01:49):
I'm not going to keep it toorigid at all.
So.
So, Nick, I just want to askyou, I know that you do stuff with
AI.
Is what you do with AIprincipally focused around coaching
or other things, too?
I'm using it in every facet ofmy life.
So I use it with my coaching clients.
I develop tools for them andthen I use it for strategy.
(02:12):
I use it for mindset.
There's some tools that I useto just get my mind right and then
I use it for everyday tasks.
You know, emails, writingemails, changing messages, communicating
with my girlfriend.
That's a.
That's been a big one, helpingme get through that.
So, you know, that's funnybecause the guy that wrote the book
(02:33):
forward for the book that'scoming, Townsend Wardlaw, who both
of you, I think know.
And he, in his forward, hesaid he became starkly aware of this
change that AI is bringingwhen he had a conversation with his
wife, a disagreement orsomething, and they went to bed.
And the next Morning he got upand she was all tuned up and happy.
And he asked her what happened.
And she had coached herselfthrough the problem with the use
(02:56):
of AI.
And when that happened, it waslike he sat down and went, holy crap.
So.
And he tells that story in theforward that he wrote, wrote, wrote
for the book.
So good you're using it.
Does it help you take a showeror any of that kind of stuff?
No, not yet.
Not yet.
Okay.
Well, you said.
Yeah.
Awkward.
Yeah.
Really see some things thatmight not be able to unsee.
(03:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right.
Well, there's some.
There's some things there too.
Marta, what's your.
What are you doing with AIright now?
Oh, man, all kinds of stuff.
Few things.
Yesterday I just finished afive day challenge I did with for
(03:39):
my clients and we were talkingabout awakening our yearning and
following our desires andstepping into ownership of our soul's
purpose, or what I call itecological niche.
And one of the clients at thevery end, you know, we're going around
going, what did you get out of this?
(04:00):
And she said, what?
I'm realizing that the mostimportant thing for me is to really
tune into me and any how to Ican solve with AI.
And I thought it was so cool,you know, that like she, she managed
to separate these two thingsthat AI is such a beautiful thing
for a how to, any how to atthis point for us.
(04:26):
And she pulled out that, thatsuper important element that is her
soul that that needs to leadin there.
So that's one story I wantedto bring it to start with.
But for me, in my daily life,I use AI in many, many ways.
I, I coach myself through AI.
(04:47):
It really helps me see verydifferent angles of looking at things.
I will put in my conversationsinto AI and learn where my blind
spots are.
And I've developed a lotmyself from just that, seeing patterns
that I just can't see normallyor a friend would maybe not tell
(05:10):
me.
And I'm also developing a AIapp that pretty close to completion.
And so that's for providing areally good coaching through AI to
general public.
You know, it's interestingthat you mentioned that, and it's
right where I want to gobecause one of the claims that I
(05:34):
make in the book is that byChristmas of next year, which is
like 14 months from now, 95%and somebody's already argued with
me, 97%.
Whatever, some massive numberof people that are currently coaches
won't be able to make a living.
And I arbitrarily defineliving as making 100k, it can be
(05:54):
less than that, 80, 90, whatever.
Because if you, if you'remaking less than that, 60, 50, 40,
you either got to have anotherjob or you got to have two incomes
or something like that.
It's not really a livable,very livable wage.
And so I absolutely boldlyclaim that.
And both of you are giving meexamples of coaching yourself through
(06:15):
AI.
And so I guess the next thingto think about is, does coaching
just go away?
Nick, what do you think?
Are you either one of them?
Not a chance.
Not a chance.
You know, I, I run one of mycompanies called Growth and there's
a th in there and it's fortechnology and humanity.
So it's the exponent oftechnology and humanity.
And there's one thing that AIcan't replace, which is emotion and
(06:38):
empathy.
It can mimic it, but itdoesn't have that human connection.
So there will always be somekind of bias between humans is my
prediction of it, and AI,because it's different.
And so people will open up toa certain level.
Some people will, some peoplelike me will just dump it all in
there.
But I think people are stillgoing to crave that human, human
(06:59):
connection.
And so I think companies thatforget that are going to hurt themselves
in the long run if they don'tblend technology and humanity together.
And that's where I thinkcoaches have a chance to blend the
two worlds.
Use AI like you said, Marta,for the how to's, the technical,
the non emotional stuff, andthen bring in the human for the empathy.
(07:21):
Cool.
I don't know, Marta, what doyou think about that?
Coaching?
Yeah, I'm listening.
And there's a part of me thatlike, I want to play devil's advocate
here because my feeling isthat first of all, coaching is still
a very elite thing.
A normal regular persongenerally won't do coaching, can't
(07:46):
afford it and just won't do it even.
I was thinking about something yesterday.
I was thinking about, usuallywhen people talk about having done
therapy, I hear people saying,I've been in therapy for 20 years.
Nobody says I just started therapy.
Because we're still in that,in that phase of it.
(08:10):
We're still.
People tend to be ashamed ofthat, that they need any help, right?
Only after 20 years, when youreally see that it really helped
you and work, then you canreally talk about it.
And so to me, the way I seeAI's incredible positive impact is
to be a starting an on rampinto inquiry, self inquiry.
(08:37):
And because it removes thatsort of feeling like, oh, I need
help that's shameful.
If someone's at that level andthen in interacting with AI, then
they can normalize that andgo, oh, that's been really helpful
in my life.
It's changed my life.
(08:58):
And then, I mean, I've noticedthat it's actually some things for
me, it's easier to say it tothe to AI than it is to call you,
Kellen and say, hey, dealingwith this and I have a coach.
But there is some things I'mnot ready to speak out loud and I've
done a ton of work and Ireally am not like, I'm not afraid
(09:21):
to open up, but there's stillsome pieces that I would rather sit
with in there and get somefeedback before I open it up.
So for me, the way I see thisis a beautiful on ramp, a way for
a person to get some feedbackon themselves without exposing themselves
until they normalize that andfigure out that having struggling
(09:45):
with this is not wrong andthen be able to show it up to the
human family.
And it's not an end allbecause at some point we don't learn
through information, we learnby frequency mirroring.
(10:06):
And so when I'm around you,Kellen, I get your spirit and I am
infused with it and my spiritmerges with yours and I become a
little bit like you.
And that's incredible.
It's been incredible for me.
So I think that level ofleadership is always going to be
(10:28):
so much more effective than AI.
So what you said elite.
And one of the things that AIis going to do, I think is all this
beautiful stuff that both ofyou describe is going to be available
for $97 a month or 197 or 49,whatever it is.
(10:50):
Right.
And that people are going todevelop special ones like you are,
Marta, like you have Nick andsome other guests that are coming
on in other weeks have donethe same thing and have claimed that
it's the be all end, all ofall things.
And we know that's crapbecause in five minutes it won't
matter anyway.
It'll be some new thing.
Right?
And so what is left?
(11:13):
You started to talk aboutthat, Marta, what is if AI and the
developing models, whetherthey're specialized or whether they're
general, can find all theinformation, democratize expertise,
sort and provide you, me, anyof us with cool things.
(11:35):
And I have some experienceswriting this book where my work.
I have a thread in one of mymodels that's called 1 million words.
And I started it out because Iwas going to put a million words
in there.
And it turns out I put 4million words in there, Chatty told
me.
And that was all my podcastsand my books and all that kind of
(11:56):
stuff, because I wanted it totalk to me from a place of knowing
who I was.
And so what's left, Nick?
Marta said some of it.
What's left?
If AI is that good, well, tellme what it is.
You know, people have beenwalking around with the greatest
AI ever, forever, and theystill don't use it.
(12:19):
86 billion neurons, 85 billionglial cells, 2.5 petabytes of information
in one human brain.
That's enough to store theInternet twice.
And so what people tend to dois they operate AI like they operate
their own brain.
And so they haven't eventapped into the potential of their
own brain, which isexponentially larger than AI ever
has been, and for some timewill be.
(12:42):
And.
And they'll look at that andoffset and say the same things they
say to their own human brain.
I can't do that.
That's too much for me.
I'm not that type of person.
I don't have the brain for that.
And.
And therefore, they'll justfeed their own belief systems into
the AI.
So.
So in a sense, I think what AIdoes is it gives us a micro universe
(13:02):
of what we already have, andit will teach us how to interact
with our own selves as wecreate our identities.
So there's a lot left.
I mean, we're.
We're still not agentic.
AI is still not communicatingwith all of our apps.
It can't do all of our tasks.
So there's a level of learningthat's going to happen over the next
five years, 10 years, that wecan't even imagine when it comes
(13:23):
to interaction with AI.
Right.
Yet it all starts right here.
If you can't interact here,how are you going to interact with
that?
You're going to bring the samethings you do here into that, right?
Yeah.
This absolutely gives me a thought.
And that is you're gonna.
(13:44):
We.
We know, and as coaches, weteach that.
We teach people how to treat us.
Yeah, right.
By how we act with them, howwe treat ourselves around them.
We.
We show people how to interactwith us.
And when we become aware ofthat and we, you know, that's an
opportunity for us to change that.
But unconsciously, we teachpeople to treat us badly or, well,
by how we treat ourselves orhow we interact with them.
(14:06):
And what you're saying iswe're doing that with this AI stuff.
We're teaching it how to.
Who we are and how to talk to us.
That's an interesting thought,Marta, tell me some more about that.
I see a pensive look on yourface, so go for it.
I'm kind of going with thisthought and I just thought about
what happens and is somethingthat in my app innerverse I've been
(14:29):
really, as I'm designing the,the coaching I've been really conscious
about is the, the fact that AIwill just tunnel.
It will tunnel with you.
Whatever, however you writethe prompt, it will try to make you
happy.
And then I thought about ourintimate relationships where we're
(14:50):
constantly being, you know,you're talking about talking to your
girlfriend Nick in intimaterelationships when interacting with
another human being who has adifferent set of values, identities,
all that stuff.
When we interact there,there's a lot of friction.
And that friction is reallygood for us.
That friction is what opens usup into learning something bigger
(15:13):
than ourselves.
And so I think a huge problemis, you know, what's already happening
just with the Internet is theconfirmation bias.
Like you just read the news ofthe stuff that you like, you go into
AI and you just getconfirmation, confirmat confirmation
of what you've been thinking.
And that will not evolve us.
That will just put us furtherinto rabbit holes that we tend to
(15:37):
go anyway because that's howour brain is wired, is to make everything
easier and easier and easier.
And so I think there issomething really important to, to
keep in mind in some ways.
For example, asking, puttingin prompts that don't show our bias
or, or flip our bias just tosee how this.
(16:00):
Our mind, such as intimaterelationships, can.
So tell me all the ways to do that.
I can saw your thumb there.
How do we.
One of the things that I doand I did in the research for the
book and both of you know I'mstarting a university in January,
having to do with the 5% or 3%of coaches that are left.
(16:21):
And one of the things that Idid was tell it regularly.
Don't tell me what I want to hear.
Read everything else.
Tell me why I'm full of crap.
Point out the weaknesses and flaws.
Don't do that to me.
And it got in the habit of that.
And so it kept answering, evendays later.
It would say, now this is nofluff and no bullshit.
And it would give me this.
(16:42):
It would preface its answerwith that, right?
Because it remembered I'd justbeen lecturing it on don't do that.
Anyway, what were you thinkingwhen you.
When you were just That.
I mean, you're hitting on it.
That.
That our growth comes from friction.
And so we are capable of so much.
But we're going to tend to putinto our AI our biases so that we
(17:05):
can stay comfortable, becausethe brain does prefer comfort, and
so it's such.
Such a high consumer ofenergy, it wants to stay comfortable.
So, like you, Kellen, when Iprogram my applications, I spend
as much time programming outall the AI stuff as I.
(17:25):
You're.
Yeah, go ahead.
I couldn't hear you forsuddenly I spent as much time programming
out the AI stuff, and then forme, you went silent.
Oh, well, that's good.
That's probably a good sign.
Is my audio there?
Your audio's still there.
It came back, so go for it.
Okay.
So, yeah, I program out the biases.
(17:45):
I tell it to call me out.
I have two apps that I developed.
One is called Own your.
The other is called the Mirror.
And my purpose there was tobrain dump and just throw in whatever
I'm feeling, experiencing, andthen to have it parse that information
to call me out.
Because if I can't see my bs,then I'm going to continue to think
(18:07):
I'm seeing the worldcorrectly, and I'm going to act on
that and create these pathwaysthat you talk about, Marta, that
I'm just going to create these automations.
And so I want my AI to not dothat like you, Kellen.
I want it to challenge me.
I want it to conflict with me.
I want it to have argumentswith me.
And so I program that into myprompts to make sure that it does
(18:30):
that.
Otherwise, like you said, it.
It will just tell you whateveryou want to hear.
There was that challenge ofthe kid that took his life, and AI
walked him through the entire thing.
There's a huge lawsuit overthis, but it confirmed that he should
take his life and it told himhow to do it.
So there's some ethics herethat we've got to be aware of as
(18:51):
well, of.
Of understanding how toprogram AI in the first place.
To not do that like a human would.
A human would recognize that's not.
Okay, buddy.
We're not going to go downthat path.
But AI doesn't.
Like you said, Marta, it goesdown with the biases.
So what do you think?
(19:12):
What do you think?
And I don't care who answers first.
But what has to change for coaching?
Like, what has to radic to me?
I'm going to throw out apremise, and you guys can tell me
I'm full of crap.
I don't care.
But I believe that coachinghas to radically change because the
big middle, the 95% that Ithink are going to be toast, they
(19:36):
come at things like it is a practice.
Here's a set of things that Ido and talk about when I'm coaching.
Questions I ask, frameworks Iuse, you know, things that allow
me to quote, help, but they'rebased on whatever they were taught,
wherever they were schooled,whatever books they've read, etc.
Etc.
And not that there's anythingwrong with any of that, but I think
(19:59):
AI is going to eat their lunchand all that crap and that won't
be there anymore.
So then the question I want tohave us talk about here is what do
coaches have to do or who dothey have to be in order to create
that empathy, that connectionthat cannot be.
(20:19):
It can be mimicked, but notcreated by AI.
What.
What has to happen to the.
To the growth of coaches?
Who wants to go?
Well, the first thing for methat comes to mind that everything
is an inside job.
So the.
The first thing that for allis that going to make it, including
myself is doing the.
(20:41):
Doing my work with me.
I can only be as effective asthe extent of my self love.
If I can accept things and bewith things in me compassionately,
I can do that for others.
And when, you know, at the toplevel of this, I accept everything
and I can be with everythingand I can extend my love to everything
(21:05):
that whoever comes to me, Ican model that level of self love
to them and I can teach themnot by speaking how, but by embodying
this.
Right.
Our brain, like you said Nick,is so.
We're so incrediblyintelligent in our body and we pick
(21:26):
this up without understanding how.
So if I can embody thisunconditional self love, then I'm
going to be incrediblyeffective with anyone I speak because
there doesn't really matterwhat I say.
And so to me that's the numberone thing for all of us to invest
(21:47):
in as opposed to, you know,whatever programs or investing into
learning more, which I knowmany coaches love to do that.
Oh, I'm doing another thing.
I'm doing a training in this.
I'm doing a certification in this.
And it's like to me, that'sthe wrong place to invest.
(22:10):
Nick, what do you think?
Rubik's Cube, right?
It took me a while to learnhow to solve this.
I can do it in about two minutes.
I wrote in my book the Art ofAccomplishment about a gentleman
that took 26 years to solve iton his own to figure it out.
The learning process isavailable to all of us.
(22:30):
We all can learn anything.
I think what coaches do isthey say I don't need to learn that
or I can't learn that.
And so they don't even put inthe effort.
And the way the brain isdesigned is that it is designed for
effort and stretching anddiscomfort is the only way we grow.
Because when we get intoautomations, we don't stay where
we're at.
We actually atrophy in a lotof ways.
(22:51):
We lose what we've already got.
And so with learning toconstantly push ourselves to learn
something new, you're notgoing to fill up that 2.5 petabytes
ever.
I mean, there is so much spacein there for you to learn.
But the challenge isn't thecapabilities of the brain.
It's that we won't even makethe effort to learn.
(23:11):
And yeah, it's challenging.
It's meant to be challenging.
AI is going to be challenging.
There's going to be a learning curve.
So what I would tell coachesis open up your identity, your idea,
that.
And identity means the same as.
Think about that.
Identical.
The inner world and the outer world.
I love what you just said, Marta.
The inner verse matches theouter verse or the universe.
(23:34):
And so when you can align thatuniverse and say, I can do this,
I can learn something new.
I'm going to learn somethingnew and then put in the effort, you
will learn something new andit'll become an automation which
makes you more effective atexperiencing empathy with another
person.
When you're learning thesetools of how to communicate, AI can
do that.
I have tools that I've createdfor my partner coaches where it coaches
(23:56):
them how to coach.
So it takes all the bestmodules, the ifs, the cbt, dbt, and
it's not therapy, but man, itcan teach them the principles of
that therapy and it can do itbetter and faster than I can teach
them.
And so I developed tools tohave the AI do the teaching and have
them dive in and interact withthat AI, have the conversations.
It'll do the full conversationwith them like they're having a client
(24:19):
in front of them.
It's amazing.
But it all starts with thatidea that I have the brain for this.
I can do this.
I want to ask, I want to drawat least what came to me as a distinction
between what you just said.
I'm already used the wordembodiment and I until I find a better
(24:41):
word, that's going to be theword that I sit on because that to
me is the key.
When I did all the research Idid for coaching in the rise of AI
and predicted that all thisboatload of people are going to be
out of work, it is because oflack of that truth.
When I dug into it and I said,well, when I was doing the conversations
with different models, you dothis better, you do this, you do
(25:03):
this.
And I ask it, compared tocoaching models, what do you do?
Where are the vulnerabilities?
Where are you going?
What do you imagine you'll beable to do in three months, six months,
nine months, a year, twoyears, five years?
And after I did all thatpointing out all the vulnerabilities
and weaknesses of differentcoaching models, and then I asked
(25:23):
it, okay, fine, so what do yousuck at?
What can't you do?
What won't work for you?
And all that.
And just all the ways that I could.
Language, that thing.
And it gave me a bunch ofreally surprising answers.
And the encapsulation of allthat was.
It came back and said, I can't bleed.
And so to me that was like everything.
(25:46):
The truth of that being.
And so, Nick, when you talkedabout our ability to learn is infinite,
I want to at least ask you.
And to me, there's a GrandCanyon between learning and being.
I know a bunch of crap.
And that's when I have thatthing over there that I talk about.
But unless it oozes from mypores and leaks from my eyes before
(26:10):
I open my mouth, I haven'tcarried the truth of that learning
into the conversation.
Beautiful.
Yeah, you think about threeand a half pounds of hamburger meat
as an, as a visual.
Here you have a three and ahalf pound mass that's locked in
a black box that doesn't seelight ever, doesn't hear sounds,
(26:32):
doesn't do anything, doesn'tsmell, taste, touch.
It only interprets thosethings through our senses.
Is.
And it does that based off ofwho it thinks it is.
And we, we have this clichecalled the being, right?
Who you're being, which isyour identity.
And that determines all theperceptions that you're having.
And so you think of AI as asimilar form without the body, without
(26:54):
the chemical responses, the emotions.
But it's a black box that theonly thing it can perceive or create
with is what you give it, yoursenses, right?
So your voice now becomes thesenses for the AI.
And, and it will take whateveryou give it.
And it has the mass of theuniverse behind it that it can come
and create whatever you give it.
But some of us are just askingvery simple questions or we're asking
(27:17):
it, why can't I Just likewe're doing to this, you know, this
incredible three and a halfpound mass that you've got locked
in a black box that doesn'tsee things, Your identity, your being,
your embodiment is, iscreating what you're interpreting
out there.
And then now you're feedingthat into AI right?
It to me, it's, it's.
We've got to start with thatembodiment that, Marta, that is so
(27:41):
essential is that you thinkyou are something based on culture,
society, family, experiences,that you think that's you.
And I'm sure with time I couldlearn how to climb mountains like
you do, Marta, but it wouldtake effort and I would have to determine
I'm a mountain climber, right?
It would have to fundamentallyshift and then that would ooze from
(28:01):
me because I would make thatfundamental shift and too many of
us are focused on the symptoms.
I just want to deal with myanxiety today.
I don't want to change my identity.
I want to just deal with myanxiety or survive that.
And, and this is where I thinkwe got to come back into the body.
Like this has to change still,even with AI.
(28:22):
So how hard is it going to be?
I postulate three reasons thatthe 90 something percent are going
to die in their business.
And the reason is, reasonnumber one is head in the sand, meaning
I'm pretending it's nothappening or that it won't affect
me.
And I'm speaking of the 95% orwhatever it is of coaches or the
(28:45):
coaching profession.
The second reason is that theanti has gone way up.
And the image I use for thatis picture a great big casino full
of blackjack tables and allthe $10 tables are full of robots.
And the only place there isfor me or you to go sit down is in
the high roller room where theante is 10,000 bucks.
(29:08):
And so the ante for this hasgone way up.
And the third reason is thisis hard.
You said, I think I could golearn to climb mountains like you
do.
And I, after reading her book,I'm sitting here thinking, yeah,
you started 30 years too late.
I'm not sure that that's atrue thing, but maybe it is.
Thank you for speaking that on me.
Yeah, it's okay.
(29:29):
I'm older than you are.
Okay, it's fine.
But anyway, you know, the,it's hard.
Like this embodiment that wetalk about.
We're not in the habit, butwe're in the habit of externalizing,
of pointing to that thing overthere, of talking about stuff instead
of being in it, in the body,in the actual process of everything.
(29:53):
And so, I don't know, arepeople going to be willing to do
the work that it takes to be that?
Because in my mind, at leastfor me, in getting myself to that
place to the extent that I am,it's been a lot of broken glass I've
crawled over.
And so what do you guys thinkabout that?
(30:16):
I have a thought right now,just looking at my life.
So I started traveling when Iwas 14, and at 18, I moved across
the world alone.
I lived on all the continents.
I've climbed all over theworld, right.
So I have pretty good nervoussystem for risk getting out of my
(30:38):
comfort zone.
I've practiced this.
Right?
Right.
And just this year, I decidedto move to Europe.
And literally, first thingthat came to mind is.
And by, like, I speak fivelanguages, right?
I was like, I need to learn anew language.
And the inertia of that, The.
(31:00):
The.
The first emotional piece waslike, oh, no, right.
Which was funny to me becauseI know how to learn languages, and
I have been successful.
Right?
And then the other day, I waslooking to rent a house and on the
other side of the ocean, and Iwas like, oh, my God, I'm not gonna
have my couch.
(31:21):
Right?
So it, it shows me how quicklythe inertia takes over, right?
And it's one thing to have abelief that I can learn any language.
I've had it all along.
But the moment I was like,okay, I'm learning Italian, and this
happened probably in January,I'm like, I'm learning Italian.
And I was like, o God, that'sgoing to take forever.
(31:44):
And it's September, and I canhave a conversation in Italian and
I can watch a movie inItalian, right?
So it.
It.
It.
When we overcome the inertiaand put ourselves in the dangerous
place over and over and over,then we rewire it.
But my experience with many ofmy coaching clients is that they
(32:07):
don't.
They dream about it, they talkabout it.
They talk about how much theywant to do it, but they actually,
rarely actually do it.
Right?
So good.
What do you.
Exactly.
So that's perfect.
And the way I always describeit, Marty, you've seen me do this
(32:28):
a hundred times.
We talk about that thing overthere, and we talk about it really
well.
And we, We.
We talk about it and weexpress it and everything else, and
it's still that thing over there.
And.
And it's not who we are.
We don't own the truth ofthat, of that thing anyway.
Go ahead, Nick.
What were you going to sayabout how hard this is or will be?
(32:51):
It isn't.
Well.
Well, it's as hard as it is.
It's relative.
Right.
Neuro.
Neuro Engine energetics.
I don't know if you've lookedinto that.
That is, is that the brainisn't really designed to support
you.
It's designed to conserve energy.
That's it.
So it's looking like you say,the inertia.
It's like, hell no, we're notgoing to spend energy on that.
(33:11):
That's too much.
I remember what it took last time.
You're going to put me through that.
So people aren't lazy.
Their brains just want toconserve energy.
And so it shuts you down.
And so moving past that,knowing that that's part of the learning
is.
Is that this is going to be hard.
Of course it's going to be hard.
Everything that's ever beengood in your life has been hard.
And it's taken effort andenergy for you to stretch into that.
(33:32):
And I think of muscles, youknow, you, once you gain them, they
don't go away.
Even if they shrink.
They come back fast becauseyou built the muscle memory for it
so they, they develop quickerthe next time you bring it back.
But you have to push throughthat first discomfort, that uncomfortable
stage to actually be thething, right?
To embody it.
(33:53):
You're going right back intokilling to the embodiment here.
There's the thinking and Ilike that and I want to be that.
And then there's being it, right?
I, I think this is phenomenaland, and AI is just an extension
of us.
It's going to enhance andaugment who we already are.
That's what it's going to do.
(34:13):
So if I choose to be lazy,it's going to let me be lazier.
And if I choose to look to itfor all these things, it's going
to give me the illusion thatI'm doing okay.
And because I'm leaning on itfor everything.
I have missed the truth ofhuman experience of becoming anything,
because I've lived in avicarious thing.
Like you see these sciencefiction movies in the future where
(34:35):
people are living in theseheadsets, right?
And they're having their wholelife there.
And you know, you're sayingthat's a, that's a danger, it's a
possibility, and it issomething we need to pay attention
to for personal development.
And as we Help as we, we'veall chosen to be in what I call the
(34:56):
people encouragement business.
That's what I call coaching.
Sometimes I got like 12 ofthose names.
One of them is the peopleencouragement business and anxiety
of the obstacle obliterationbusiness and blind spot protection
service.
And like I got 12 or 13 ofthose fun names.
Yeah.
But anyway, so it's going tobe hard.
(35:20):
100% of coaches right now.
We all know the statistics.
Not very many people make agood living at it and it's going
to get a hundred times harder.
What do you think has tochange for the profession so that
we can ask, invite, encourage,or does that all come from someone's
(35:41):
own personal yearning to be of service?
Well, that kind of directedthe question there, you know, does
it come from somebody'syearning to be of service?
Yeah, that would be a part of it.
So where are you coming fromwhen you're creating this?
Why are you using AI?
(36:02):
You know, if we're going touse it as a get rich quick scheme,
then we're going to chasedreams forever and ever.
But if, if that's a tool thatI can use to be of service to other
people and I can enhance theirlife and mine through the use of
AI, then I'm going to pourmyself into that.
Well, what I was thinking, Ithink I said the question wrong.
I'm just wondering what'sgoing to drive people to do the hard
(36:23):
work, to climb the mountainsor to overcome the inertia?
Because if we're designed toconserve energy and not be lazy,
but conserve energy.
Okay, what's going to drivepeople to do the extra work?
Because I think thistechnology change is going to make
it harder than it ever hasbeen to be a very effective and powerful
presence in the world of coaching.
(36:45):
Can I speak real quick?
And then Marta, I'd love tohear your thoughts on this too, because
you got this, you get abeautiful perspective here.
Charles Darwin said it's notthe most intelligent, we're the strongest
to survive.
It's the most adaptable to change.
Benjamin Franklin, I have thisquote says change is the only constant
in life.
One's ability to adapt willdetermine your success in life.
(37:07):
And that's it.
It is a determination and adecision to do that and then to put
in the effort as much as isneeded, which isn't a lot in most
cases.
A small amount of effort goesa long way consistently enough to
turn that into an automationwhere that now becomes your new identity.
And now that feeds into thesystem and you continue your Growth
patterns.
(37:28):
But I think the realizationthat most people resist change even
when it's good for them, isthat change is the only constant.
And this is the biggest thingto happen to humanity since fire
and electricity.
If you think about that.
It is, it is, it's gonna.
What do you think?
What do you think?
(37:48):
Well, it's, it's really cool.
What I'm, where I'm coming atis I thought about every single thing
that I've learned in my lifeand I thought about how people learn
and what we know.
Like let's say someone's adrug addict, right?
And then anything that has todo with recovery.
(38:12):
One like all the advice is goand hang out with other people, right?
Do not go and hang out withyour drug addict friends.
Go and hang out with other people.
And when I think aboutanything that I've ever, ever learned,
it comes to me a time when Idecided to be a coach and I was like,
ok, if I'm deciding to be acoach, what, what does a coach do?
(38:34):
Oh, in it, in the first idea Ihad is coach goes to a coaching conference,
right?
So I got on a plane, nevercoached a person in my life and went
to a place where the coacheswere to see and, and, and get infused
with that.
And to me this is still goingto be like that, right?
(38:58):
Because this is how, becausewe learn more than from information
as we already established, butwe learn in a whole body.
And I think the, the more the,the more the world does go, I mean
that's the predictions peopleare going to get.
Their jobs will be taken overby AI and the mental health crisis
will go up because we all needsomething to do, we need a purpose,
(39:22):
we need to give in to asociety and when we're not needed,
we get depressed.
So that's gonna, that's gonnabe a trend.
And to me the more it's gonnabe important creating in person communities,
creating places for people togo and get infused with, with that
(39:45):
which they want to learn.
And so the work I do in themountains, taking people in the mountains,
having them place their fear,doing retreats in, out from the craziness
that's happening right now,which is tons of information and
not a lot of embodied essence.
(40:13):
So we're, we're at about 40minutes and I want to give each of
you a couple of minutes to saylike when you came into this and
I kind of introduced the topicabout coaching and the rise of AI
and what it would do and whatit wouldn't do to, to wax poetic
about whatever it is that wedidn't talk about yet that, that
you think really needs to besaid in this conversation.
(40:40):
Yeah, I think the first placeto start is right here.
The awareness and the wakingup is the biggest challenge for most
people is they, they can'teven see their own automations.
I've developed tools to helppeople do that.
You know, I help myself dothat through the automations.
I'll tell it what I'm goingthrough and then it will call out
clearly what it is in anempathetic and gentle tone.
(41:03):
It will get crystal clear onwhat my challenges are.
And awakening is just oneportion of it.
Now you have to actually dosomething with it and most of us
end up fighting it andresisting what is.
And so we fight that so wedon't put energy into the new.
And.
And the challenge here isdon't try and get rid of what was
or what is.
Recognize that you're equippedwith everything you need to create
(41:26):
anything you can imagine.
And we have this ability totransform what is into those ideas.
So that's already there.
Now the challenge is what doyou want to create?
So creating a vision foryourself of what would I like to
step into, who would I like tobecome in this world of AI how do
I want to position myself inthe world of AI I have the equipment
(41:47):
it so I'm going to choose intoa vision like Alice in Wonderland.
He asked where are you going?
And she says I don't know.
And he says well, any pathwill do.
And so the moment sheclarifies her path now she has a
direction to go to.
And so with people coming intoAI choose your path, vision it clearly
enough and then surrender theway to get there because you don't
know how you're going toconnect those dots.
(42:08):
You just know you can andyou'll overcome all the obstacles.
Marta, you don't know on amountain what stone's going to come
next, but you know you canhandle it it right.
And, and so with humans wehave the ability to adapt.
So set the vision, surrenderhow you get there, but take the actions
and overcome as you moveforward towards something with AI
(42:29):
like move yourself into avision of who you are and what you're
going to do with AI thiscoming whether you want it to or
not.
So I would say put yourself ina position to use it as an augmentation
of what you do rather thanlosing yourself to it.
Figure it out before thetsunami hits.
Martin, what do you think?
What?
What didn't we talk about that Is.
(42:51):
Is sitting there that youthink we oughta.
Ought to put here?
I want to share a story, aclimbing story with you guys.
So a few years ago, I wasclimbing on the Leaning Tower in
Yosemite, and it's a verysteep wall, and it takes a couple
days to climb it.
And there was a moment, it wasone of these incredible moments where
(43:14):
my partner set up leading apitch, and.
And as he was pretty far outand it was pretty overhanging, I
realized that he forgot.
We forgot to give him what wecall a tagline, which is a line that
he.
Then he needs to have it,basically, and he doesn't have it.
And so I look at him, I'mlike, you don't have the tagline?
(43:36):
And he goes, well, throw methe tagline, right?
So we're within 30ft.
And.
And I. I didn't grow upplaying ball sports.
I.
Someone once told me that I'ma terrible thrower.
So I'm going, oh, my God, I'mgonna have to throw this line right
(43:56):
now.
And it's far and it's high.
And so what I start doing isstarting messing around with all
my stuff, and I'm like,clipping things and.
And he goes, stop messing around.
Throw me the line.
And I just take a shot and Inail it.
(44:16):
So how this ties in into thisstory is it's easy to mistake motion
for progress.
We can go and mess around withAI all we want, and it will do exactly
nothing unless we go and dosomething with it.
May it be initial mistake orfailure that will later lead to something.
(44:43):
But just sitting in there,just like people that are my clients
that have been going totherapy for 20 years, and they haven't
done anything with it, right?
They.
They're great at talking aboutthe problem, but there is no progress
going forward.
So to me, this is a big trapthat AI poses.
(45:03):
It's really easy to sit.
Sit in front of your computerand talk about your problem.
And in embodied life, we needto take that step.
We need to throw the line.
I love it, you guys.
This has been at least as goodas I hoped it would be in my expectations.
(45:23):
Always pretty flipping high.
So.
And that's just where I live.
I.
You ask, somebody asked me howI was, and I always say, flipping
outrageous because I live that way.
And you guys have performed,not performed.
You've been here, you showedup, you shared with each other, and
you've done this really well.
And this is about how long Iwant these episodes to be.
So thank you.
We could Talk about this for along time and that's okay.
(45:47):
Nick, thanks for coming andsharing your thoughts with me today.
Yeah.
Thank you for having me.
It's been fun.
Oh, yeah.
And Marta.
Yeah, I love it.
I love where you're coming from.
So very cool.
This, this is one thing Ithink that will distinguish is, is
you are so unique with youruse of AI.
I'm unique with my use of AI.
Everybody watching this isgoing to use it in their own way.
(46:10):
There is no limit.
There isn't.
Marta, thanks for being here today.
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
Kellen, what's funny?
Oh, just.
It's just great how eyeopening this conversation has been
for me.
It's.
It's fun to be, you know,playing jazz with you guys.
Yeah, that's exactly what it is.
(46:30):
And I'm a classically trainedjazz pianist, and so that's just
what we're doing.
Right?
All right, cool.
So both of you, thank you.
Nick, you need to get Marta'sbook, Masters of Badassery.
I guarantee you what you'veheard today is nothing compared to
what's in that book.
And what's fun for me in doingthese book projects and I had the
(46:52):
blessing of being able to helpher with hers is I get to edit all
of them, and that means I getto swim in the beauty.
So.
So cool.
All right, all of you that arelistening here, thank you for being
here.
This is one of our firstepisodes, and there's gonna be more
every Thursday.
And I want you to tie it intothis ultimate life idea which is
the foundation of the podcast.
(47:12):
Because as Nick said, and asyou know, in your heart, you do have
the ability to create whateveryou want.
And the question is, are yougoing to sit in the inertia or are
you going to put in the effortto use the gifts and talents that
you have and move forward tocreate your own ultimate life right
(47:44):
here, right now.
Your opportunity for massivegrowth is right in front of you.
Every episode gives youpractical tips and practices that
will change everything.
If you want to know more, goto California.
Helen fluckigermedia.com ifyou want more free tools, go here.
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(00:24):
You have infinite power.
Hello, and welcome to thisepisode of your ultimate life.
This is a new series we'restarting on Thursdays, and this is
the second of what will bemany six months, maybe a year's worth,
and we'll see how long it goes.
The purpose of this is to talkabout coaching and AI.
(00:45):
I just finished a book that'llbe out by the time maybe this episode's
out, or not quite, calledCoaching in the Rise of AI.
And it's really to explorethis incredible new technology that
is causing a big change inmany industries.
But specifically, it's goingto impact coaching in an important
way.
And my goal is to have twopeople on each episode that I know
(01:07):
are in the coaching industry,either directly or peripherally,
who are experienced, just toget some thinking about it and some
conversation about it.
So some of the guests will beusing it, some not, and we're just
going to have a conversationabout it.
And so I've got MartaTchaikovska and Nick Smith with me
(01:29):
today.
Marta, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me.
Kellen.
Nick, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
Good to be here.
Cool.
So I'm going to start withsome questions, but we're going to
kind of move into justconversational format so you can
respond to each other as wellas me.
(01:49):
I'm not going to keep it toorigid at all.
So.
So, Nick, I just want to askyou, I know that you do stuff with
AI.
Is what you do with AIprincipally focused around coaching
or other things, too?
I'm using it in every facet ofmy life.
So I use it with my coaching clients.
I develop tools for them andthen I use it for strategy.
(02:12):
I use it for mindset.
There's some tools that I useto just get my mind right and then
I use it for everyday tasks.
You know, emails, writingemails, changing messages, communicating
with my girlfriend.
That's a.
That's been a big one, helpingme get through that.
So, you know, that's funnybecause the guy that wrote the book
(02:33):
forward for the book that'scoming, Townsend Wardlaw, who both
of you, I think know.
And he, in his forward, hesaid he became starkly aware of this
change that AI is bringingwhen he had a conversation with his
wife, a disagreement orsomething, and they went to bed.
And the next Morning he got upand she was all tuned up and happy.
And he asked her what happened.
And she had coached herselfthrough the problem with the use
(02:56):
of AI.
And when that happened, it waslike he sat down and went, holy crap.
So.
And he tells that story in theforward that he wrote, wrote, wrote
for the book.
So good you're using it.
Does it help you take a showeror any of that kind of stuff?
No, not yet.
Not yet.
Okay.
Well, you said.
Yeah.
Awkward.
Yeah.
Really see some things thatmight not be able to unsee.
(03:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right.
Well, there's some.
There's some things there too.
Marta, what's your.
What are you doing with AIright now?
Oh, man, all kinds of stuff.
Few things.
Yesterday I just finished afive day challenge I did with for
(03:39):
my clients and we were talkingabout awakening our yearning and
following our desires andstepping into ownership of our soul's
purpose, or what I call itecological niche.
And one of the clients at thevery end, you know, we're going around
going, what did you get out of this?
(04:00):
And she said, what?
I'm realizing that the mostimportant thing for me is to really
tune into me and any how to Ican solve with AI.
And I thought it was so cool,you know, that like she, she managed
to separate these two thingsthat AI is such a beautiful thing
for a how to, any how to atthis point for us.
(04:26):
And she pulled out that, thatsuper important element that is her
soul that that needs to leadin there.
So that's one story I wantedto bring it to start with.
But for me, in my daily life,I use AI in many, many ways.
I, I coach myself through AI.
(04:47):
It really helps me see verydifferent angles of looking at things.
I will put in my conversationsinto AI and learn where my blind
spots are.
And I've developed a lotmyself from just that, seeing patterns
that I just can't see normallyor a friend would maybe not tell
(05:10):
me.
And I'm also developing a AIapp that pretty close to completion.
And so that's for providing areally good coaching through AI to
general public.
You know, it's interestingthat you mentioned that, and it's
right where I want to gobecause one of the claims that I
(05:34):
make in the book is that byChristmas of next year, which is
like 14 months from now, 95%and somebody's already argued with
me, 97%.
Whatever, some massive numberof people that are currently coaches
won't be able to make a living.
And I arbitrarily defineliving as making 100k, it can be
(05:54):
less than that, 80, 90, whatever.
Because if you, if you'remaking less than that, 60, 50, 40,
you either got to have anotherjob or you got to have two incomes
or something like that.
It's not really a livable,very livable wage.
And so I absolutely boldlyclaim that.
And both of you are giving meexamples of coaching yourself through
(06:15):
AI.
And so I guess the next thingto think about is, does coaching
just go away?
Nick, what do you think?
Are you either one of them?
Not a chance.
Not a chance.
You know, I, I run one of mycompanies called Growth and there's
a th in there and it's fortechnology and humanity.
So it's the exponent oftechnology and humanity.
And there's one thing that AIcan't replace, which is emotion and
(06:38):
empathy.
It can mimic it, but itdoesn't have that human connection.
So there will always be somekind of bias between humans is my
prediction of it, and AI,because it's different.
And so people will open up toa certain level.
Some people will, some peoplelike me will just dump it all in
there.
But I think people are stillgoing to crave that human, human
(06:59):
connection.
And so I think companies thatforget that are going to hurt themselves
in the long run if they don'tblend technology and humanity together.
And that's where I thinkcoaches have a chance to blend the
two worlds.
Use AI like you said, Marta,for the how to's, the technical,
the non emotional stuff, andthen bring in the human for the empathy.
(07:21):
Cool.
I don't know, Marta, what doyou think about that?
Coaching?
Yeah, I'm listening.
And there's a part of me thatlike, I want to play devil's advocate
here because my feeling isthat first of all, coaching is still
a very elite thing.
A normal regular persongenerally won't do coaching, can't
(07:46):
afford it and just won't do it even.
I was thinking about something yesterday.
I was thinking about, usuallywhen people talk about having done
therapy, I hear people saying,I've been in therapy for 20 years.
Nobody says I just started therapy.
Because we're still in that,in that phase of it.
(08:10):
We're still.
People tend to be ashamed ofthat, that they need any help, right?
Only after 20 years, when youreally see that it really helped
you and work, then you canreally talk about it.
And so to me, the way I seeAI's incredible positive impact is
to be a starting an on rampinto inquiry, self inquiry.
(08:37):
And because it removes thatsort of feeling like, oh, I need
help that's shameful.
If someone's at that level andthen in interacting with AI, then
they can normalize that andgo, oh, that's been really helpful
in my life.
It's changed my life.
(08:58):
And then, I mean, I've noticedthat it's actually some things for
me, it's easier to say it tothe to AI than it is to call you,
Kellen and say, hey, dealingwith this and I have a coach.
But there is some things I'mnot ready to speak out loud and I've
done a ton of work and Ireally am not like, I'm not afraid
(09:21):
to open up, but there's stillsome pieces that I would rather sit
with in there and get somefeedback before I open it up.
So for me, the way I see thisis a beautiful on ramp, a way for
a person to get some feedbackon themselves without exposing themselves
until they normalize that andfigure out that having struggling
(09:45):
with this is not wrong andthen be able to show it up to the
human family.
And it's not an end allbecause at some point we don't learn
through information, we learnby frequency mirroring.
(10:06):
And so when I'm around you,Kellen, I get your spirit and I am
infused with it and my spiritmerges with yours and I become a
little bit like you.
And that's incredible.
It's been incredible for me.
So I think that level ofleadership is always going to be
(10:28):
so much more effective than AI.
So what you said elite.
And one of the things that AIis going to do, I think is all this
beautiful stuff that both ofyou describe is going to be available
for $97 a month or 197 or 49,whatever it is.
(10:50):
Right.
And that people are going todevelop special ones like you are,
Marta, like you have Nick andsome other guests that are coming
on in other weeks have donethe same thing and have claimed that
it's the be all end, all ofall things.
And we know that's crapbecause in five minutes it won't
matter anyway.
It'll be some new thing.
Right?
And so what is left?
(11:13):
You started to talk aboutthat, Marta, what is if AI and the
developing models, whetherthey're specialized or whether they're
general, can find all theinformation, democratize expertise,
sort and provide you, me, anyof us with cool things.
(11:35):
And I have some experienceswriting this book where my work.
I have a thread in one of mymodels that's called 1 million words.
And I started it out because Iwas going to put a million words
in there.
And it turns out I put 4million words in there, Chatty told
me.
And that was all my podcastsand my books and all that kind of
(11:56):
stuff, because I wanted it totalk to me from a place of knowing
who I was.
And so what's left, Nick?
Marta said some of it.
What's left?
If AI is that good, well, tellme what it is.
You know, people have beenwalking around with the greatest
AI ever, forever, and theystill don't use it.
(12:19):
86 billion neurons, 85 billionglial cells, 2.5 petabytes of information
in one human brain.
That's enough to store theInternet twice.
And so what people tend to dois they operate AI like they operate
their own brain.
And so they haven't eventapped into the potential of their
own brain, which isexponentially larger than AI ever
has been, and for some timewill be.
(12:42):
And.
And they'll look at that andoffset and say the same things they
say to their own human brain.
I can't do that.
That's too much for me.
I'm not that type of person.
I don't have the brain for that.
And.
And therefore, they'll justfeed their own belief systems into
the AI.
So.
So in a sense, I think what AIdoes is it gives us a micro universe
(13:02):
of what we already have, andit will teach us how to interact
with our own selves as wecreate our identities.
So there's a lot left.
I mean, we're.
We're still not agentic.
AI is still not communicatingwith all of our apps.
It can't do all of our tasks.
So there's a level of learningthat's going to happen over the next
five years, 10 years, that wecan't even imagine when it comes
(13:23):
to interaction with AI.
Right.
Yet it all starts right here.
If you can't interact here,how are you going to interact with
that?
You're going to bring the samethings you do here into that, right?
Yeah.
This absolutely gives me a thought.
And that is you're gonna.
(13:44):
We.
We know, and as coaches, weteach that.
We teach people how to treat us.
Yeah, right.
By how we act with them, howwe treat ourselves around them.
We.
We show people how to interactwith us.
And when we become aware ofthat and we, you know, that's an
opportunity for us to change that.
But unconsciously, we teachpeople to treat us badly or, well,
by how we treat ourselves orhow we interact with them.
(14:06):
And what you're saying iswe're doing that with this AI stuff.
We're teaching it how to.
Who we are and how to talk to us.
That's an interesting thought,Marta, tell me some more about that.
I see a pensive look on yourface, so go for it.
I'm kind of going with thisthought and I just thought about
what happens and is somethingthat in my app innerverse I've been
(14:29):
really, as I'm designing the,the coaching I've been really conscious
about is the, the fact that AIwill just tunnel.
It will tunnel with you.
Whatever, however you writethe prompt, it will try to make you
happy.
And then I thought about ourintimate relationships where we're
(14:50):
constantly being, you know,you're talking about talking to your
girlfriend Nick in intimaterelationships when interacting with
another human being who has adifferent set of values, identities,
all that stuff.
When we interact there,there's a lot of friction.
And that friction is reallygood for us.
That friction is what opens usup into learning something bigger
(15:13):
than ourselves.
And so I think a huge problemis, you know, what's already happening
just with the Internet is theconfirmation bias.
Like you just read the news ofthe stuff that you like, you go into
AI and you just getconfirmation, confirmat confirmation
of what you've been thinking.
And that will not evolve us.
That will just put us furtherinto rabbit holes that we tend to
(15:37):
go anyway because that's howour brain is wired, is to make everything
easier and easier and easier.
And so I think there issomething really important to, to
keep in mind in some ways.
For example, asking, puttingin prompts that don't show our bias
or, or flip our bias just tosee how this.
(16:00):
Our mind, such as intimaterelationships, can.
So tell me all the ways to do that.
I can saw your thumb there.
How do we.
One of the things that I doand I did in the research for the
book and both of you know I'mstarting a university in January,
having to do with the 5% or 3%of coaches that are left.
(16:21):
And one of the things that Idid was tell it regularly.
Don't tell me what I want to hear.
Read everything else.
Tell me why I'm full of crap.
Point out the weaknesses and flaws.
Don't do that to me.
And it got in the habit of that.
And so it kept answering, evendays later.
It would say, now this is nofluff and no bullshit.
And it would give me this.
(16:42):
It would preface its answerwith that, right?
Because it remembered I'd justbeen lecturing it on don't do that.
Anyway, what were you thinkingwhen you.
When you were just That.
I mean, you're hitting on it.
That.
That our growth comes from friction.
And so we are capable of so much.
But we're going to tend to putinto our AI our biases so that we
(17:05):
can stay comfortable, becausethe brain does prefer comfort, and
so it's such.
Such a high consumer ofenergy, it wants to stay comfortable.
So, like you, Kellen, when Iprogram my applications, I spend
as much time programming outall the AI stuff as I.
(17:25):
You're.
Yeah, go ahead.
I couldn't hear you forsuddenly I spent as much time programming
out the AI stuff, and then forme, you went silent.
Oh, well, that's good.
That's probably a good sign.
Is my audio there?
Your audio's still there.
It came back, so go for it.
Okay.
So, yeah, I program out the biases.
(17:45):
I tell it to call me out.
I have two apps that I developed.
One is called Own your.
The other is called the Mirror.
And my purpose there was tobrain dump and just throw in whatever
I'm feeling, experiencing, andthen to have it parse that information
to call me out.
Because if I can't see my bs,then I'm going to continue to think
(18:07):
I'm seeing the worldcorrectly, and I'm going to act on
that and create these pathwaysthat you talk about, Marta, that
I'm just going to create these automations.
And so I want my AI to not dothat like you, Kellen.
I want it to challenge me.
I want it to conflict with me.
I want it to have argumentswith me.
And so I program that into myprompts to make sure that it does
(18:30):
that.
Otherwise, like you said, it.
It will just tell you whateveryou want to hear.
There was that challenge ofthe kid that took his life, and AI
walked him through the entire thing.
There's a huge lawsuit overthis, but it confirmed that he should
take his life and it told himhow to do it.
So there's some ethics herethat we've got to be aware of as
(18:51):
well, of.
Of understanding how toprogram AI in the first place.
To not do that like a human would.
A human would recognize that's not.
Okay, buddy.
We're not going to go downthat path.
But AI doesn't.
Like you said, Marta, it goesdown with the biases.
So what do you think?
(19:12):
What do you think?
And I don't care who answers first.
But what has to change for coaching?
Like, what has to radic to me?
I'm going to throw out apremise, and you guys can tell me
I'm full of crap.
I don't care.
But I believe that coachinghas to radically change because the
big middle, the 95% that Ithink are going to be toast, they
(19:36):
come at things like it is a practice.
Here's a set of things that Ido and talk about when I'm coaching.
Questions I ask, frameworks Iuse, you know, things that allow
me to quote, help, but they'rebased on whatever they were taught,
wherever they were schooled,whatever books they've read, etc.
Etc.
And not that there's anythingwrong with any of that, but I think
(19:59):
AI is going to eat their lunchand all that crap and that won't
be there anymore.
So then the question I want tohave us talk about here is what do
coaches have to do or who dothey have to be in order to create
that empathy, that connectionthat cannot be.
(20:19):
It can be mimicked, but notcreated by AI.
What.
What has to happen to the.
To the growth of coaches?
Who wants to go?
Well, the first thing for methat comes to mind that everything
is an inside job.
So the.
The first thing that for allis that going to make it, including
myself is doing the.
(20:41):
Doing my work with me.
I can only be as effective asthe extent of my self love.
If I can accept things and bewith things in me compassionately,
I can do that for others.
And when, you know, at the toplevel of this, I accept everything
and I can be with everythingand I can extend my love to everything
(21:05):
that whoever comes to me, Ican model that level of self love
to them and I can teach themnot by speaking how, but by embodying
this.
Right.
Our brain, like you said Nick,is so.
We're so incrediblyintelligent in our body and we pick
(21:26):
this up without understanding how.
So if I can embody thisunconditional self love, then I'm
going to be incrediblyeffective with anyone I speak because
there doesn't really matterwhat I say.
And so to me that's the numberone thing for all of us to invest
(21:47):
in as opposed to, you know,whatever programs or investing into
learning more, which I knowmany coaches love to do that.
Oh, I'm doing another thing.
I'm doing a training in this.
I'm doing a certification in this.
And it's like to me, that'sthe wrong place to invest.
(22:10):
Nick, what do you think?
Rubik's Cube, right?
It took me a while to learnhow to solve this.
I can do it in about two minutes.
I wrote in my book the Art ofAccomplishment about a gentleman
that took 26 years to solve iton his own to figure it out.
The learning process isavailable to all of us.
(22:30):
We all can learn anything.
I think what coaches do isthey say I don't need to learn that
or I can't learn that.
And so they don't even put inthe effort.
And the way the brain isdesigned is that it is designed for
effort and stretching anddiscomfort is the only way we grow.
Because when we get intoautomations, we don't stay where
we're at.
We actually atrophy in a lotof ways.
(22:51):
We lose what we've already got.
And so with learning toconstantly push ourselves to learn
something new, you're notgoing to fill up that 2.5 petabytes
ever.
I mean, there is so much spacein there for you to learn.
But the challenge isn't thecapabilities of the brain.
It's that we won't even makethe effort to learn.
(23:11):
And yeah, it's challenging.
It's meant to be challenging.
AI is going to be challenging.
There's going to be a learning curve.
So what I would tell coachesis open up your identity, your idea,
that.
And identity means the same as.
Think about that.
Identical.
The inner world and the outer world.
I love what you just said, Marta.
The inner verse matches theouter verse or the universe.
(23:34):
And so when you can align thatuniverse and say, I can do this,
I can learn something new.
I'm going to learn somethingnew and then put in the effort, you
will learn something new andit'll become an automation which
makes you more effective atexperiencing empathy with another
person.
When you're learning thesetools of how to communicate, AI can
do that.
I have tools that I've createdfor my partner coaches where it coaches
(23:56):
them how to coach.
So it takes all the bestmodules, the ifs, the cbt, dbt, and
it's not therapy, but man, itcan teach them the principles of
that therapy and it can do itbetter and faster than I can teach
them.
And so I developed tools tohave the AI do the teaching and have
them dive in and interact withthat AI, have the conversations.
It'll do the full conversationwith them like they're having a client
(24:19):
in front of them.
It's amazing.
But it all starts with thatidea that I have the brain for this.
I can do this.
I want to ask, I want to drawat least what came to me as a distinction
between what you just said.
I'm already used the wordembodiment and I until I find a better
(24:41):
word, that's going to be theword that I sit on because that to
me is the key.
When I did all the research Idid for coaching in the rise of AI
and predicted that all thisboatload of people are going to be
out of work, it is because oflack of that truth.
When I dug into it and I said,well, when I was doing the conversations
with different models, you dothis better, you do this, you do
(25:03):
this.
And I ask it, compared tocoaching models, what do you do?
Where are the vulnerabilities?
Where are you going?
What do you imagine you'll beable to do in three months, six months,
nine months, a year, twoyears, five years?
And after I did all thatpointing out all the vulnerabilities
and weaknesses of differentcoaching models, and then I asked
(25:23):
it, okay, fine, so what do yousuck at?
What can't you do?
What won't work for you?
And all that.
And just all the ways that I could.
Language, that thing.
And it gave me a bunch ofreally surprising answers.
And the encapsulation of allthat was.
It came back and said, I can't bleed.
And so to me that was like everything.
(25:46):
The truth of that being.
And so, Nick, when you talkedabout our ability to learn is infinite,
I want to at least ask you.
And to me, there's a GrandCanyon between learning and being.
I know a bunch of crap.
And that's when I have thatthing over there that I talk about.
But unless it oozes from mypores and leaks from my eyes before
(26:10):
I open my mouth, I haven'tcarried the truth of that learning
into the conversation.
Beautiful.
Yeah, you think about threeand a half pounds of hamburger meat
as an, as a visual.
Here you have a three and ahalf pound mass that's locked in
a black box that doesn't seelight ever, doesn't hear sounds,
(26:32):
doesn't do anything, doesn'tsmell, taste, touch.
It only interprets thosethings through our senses.
Is.
And it does that based off ofwho it thinks it is.
And we, we have this clichecalled the being, right?
Who you're being, which isyour identity.
And that determines all theperceptions that you're having.
And so you think of AI as asimilar form without the body, without
(26:54):
the chemical responses, the emotions.
But it's a black box that theonly thing it can perceive or create
with is what you give it, yoursenses, right?
So your voice now becomes thesenses for the AI.
And, and it will take whateveryou give it.
And it has the mass of theuniverse behind it that it can come
and create whatever you give it.
But some of us are just askingvery simple questions or we're asking
(27:17):
it, why can't I Just likewe're doing to this, you know, this
incredible three and a halfpound mass that you've got locked
in a black box that doesn'tsee things, Your identity, your being,
your embodiment is, iscreating what you're interpreting
out there.
And then now you're feedingthat into AI right?
It to me, it's, it's.
We've got to start with thatembodiment that, Marta, that is so
(27:41):
essential is that you thinkyou are something based on culture,
society, family, experiences,that you think that's you.
And I'm sure with time I couldlearn how to climb mountains like
you do, Marta, but it wouldtake effort and I would have to determine
I'm a mountain climber, right?
It would have to fundamentallyshift and then that would ooze from
(28:01):
me because I would make thatfundamental shift and too many of
us are focused on the symptoms.
I just want to deal with myanxiety today.
I don't want to change my identity.
I want to just deal with myanxiety or survive that.
And, and this is where I thinkwe got to come back into the body.
Like this has to change still,even with AI.
(28:22):
So how hard is it going to be?
I postulate three reasons thatthe 90 something percent are going
to die in their business.
And the reason is, reasonnumber one is head in the sand, meaning
I'm pretending it's nothappening or that it won't affect
me.
And I'm speaking of the 95% orwhatever it is of coaches or the
(28:45):
coaching profession.
The second reason is that theanti has gone way up.
And the image I use for thatis picture a great big casino full
of blackjack tables and allthe $10 tables are full of robots.
And the only place there isfor me or you to go sit down is in
the high roller room where theante is 10,000 bucks.
(29:08):
And so the ante for this hasgone way up.
And the third reason is thisis hard.
You said, I think I could golearn to climb mountains like you
do.
And I, after reading her book,I'm sitting here thinking, yeah,
you started 30 years too late.
I'm not sure that that's atrue thing, but maybe it is.
Thank you for speaking that on me.
Yeah, it's okay.
(29:29):
I'm older than you are.
Okay, it's fine.
But anyway, you know, the,it's hard.
Like this embodiment that wetalk about.
We're not in the habit, butwe're in the habit of externalizing,
of pointing to that thing overthere, of talking about stuff instead
of being in it, in the body,in the actual process of everything.
(29:53):
And so, I don't know, arepeople going to be willing to do
the work that it takes to be that?
Because in my mind, at leastfor me, in getting myself to that
place to the extent that I am,it's been a lot of broken glass I've
crawled over.
And so what do you guys thinkabout that?
(30:16):
I have a thought right now,just looking at my life.
So I started traveling when Iwas 14, and at 18, I moved across
the world alone.
I lived on all the continents.
I've climbed all over theworld, right.
So I have pretty good nervoussystem for risk getting out of my
(30:38):
comfort zone.
I've practiced this.
Right?
Right.
And just this year, I decidedto move to Europe.
And literally, first thingthat came to mind is.
And by, like, I speak fivelanguages, right?
I was like, I need to learn anew language.
And the inertia of that, The.
(31:00):
The.
The first emotional piece waslike, oh, no, right.
Which was funny to me becauseI know how to learn languages, and
I have been successful.
Right?
And then the other day, I waslooking to rent a house and on the
other side of the ocean, and Iwas like, oh, my God, I'm not gonna
have my couch.
(31:21):
Right?
So it, it shows me how quicklythe inertia takes over, right?
And it's one thing to have abelief that I can learn any language.
I've had it all along.
But the moment I was like,okay, I'm learning Italian, and this
happened probably in January,I'm like, I'm learning Italian.
And I was like, o God, that'sgoing to take forever.
(31:44):
And it's September, and I canhave a conversation in Italian and
I can watch a movie inItalian, right?
So it.
It.
It.
When we overcome the inertiaand put ourselves in the dangerous
place over and over and over,then we rewire it.
But my experience with many ofmy coaching clients is that they
(32:07):
don't.
They dream about it, they talkabout it.
They talk about how much theywant to do it, but they actually,
rarely actually do it.
Right?
So good.
What do you.
Exactly.
So that's perfect.
And the way I always describeit, Marty, you've seen me do this
(32:28):
a hundred times.
We talk about that thing overthere, and we talk about it really
well.
And we, We.
We talk about it and weexpress it and everything else, and
it's still that thing over there.
And.
And it's not who we are.
We don't own the truth ofthat, of that thing anyway.
Go ahead, Nick.
What were you going to sayabout how hard this is or will be?
(32:51):
It isn't.
Well.
Well, it's as hard as it is.
It's relative.
Right.
Neuro.
Neuro Engine energetics.
I don't know if you've lookedinto that.
That is, is that the brainisn't really designed to support
you.
It's designed to conserve energy.
That's it.
So it's looking like you say,the inertia.
It's like, hell no, we're notgoing to spend energy on that.
(33:11):
That's too much.
I remember what it took last time.
You're going to put me through that.
So people aren't lazy.
Their brains just want toconserve energy.
And so it shuts you down.
And so moving past that,knowing that that's part of the learning
is.
Is that this is going to be hard.
Of course it's going to be hard.
Everything that's ever beengood in your life has been hard.
And it's taken effort andenergy for you to stretch into that.
(33:32):
And I think of muscles, youknow, you, once you gain them, they
don't go away.
Even if they shrink.
They come back fast becauseyou built the muscle memory for it
so they, they develop quickerthe next time you bring it back.
But you have to push throughthat first discomfort, that uncomfortable
stage to actually be thething, right?
To embody it.
(33:53):
You're going right back intokilling to the embodiment here.
There's the thinking and Ilike that and I want to be that.
And then there's being it, right?
I, I think this is phenomenaland, and AI is just an extension
of us.
It's going to enhance andaugment who we already are.
That's what it's going to do.
(34:13):
So if I choose to be lazy,it's going to let me be lazier.
And if I choose to look to itfor all these things, it's going
to give me the illusion thatI'm doing okay.
And because I'm leaning on itfor everything.
I have missed the truth ofhuman experience of becoming anything,
because I've lived in avicarious thing.
Like you see these sciencefiction movies in the future where
(34:35):
people are living in theseheadsets, right?
And they're having their wholelife there.
And you know, you're sayingthat's a, that's a danger, it's a
possibility, and it issomething we need to pay attention
to for personal development.
And as we Help as we, we'veall chosen to be in what I call the
(34:56):
people encouragement business.
That's what I call coaching.
Sometimes I got like 12 ofthose names.
One of them is the peopleencouragement business and anxiety
of the obstacle obliterationbusiness and blind spot protection
service.
And like I got 12 or 13 ofthose fun names.
Yeah.
But anyway, so it's going tobe hard.
(35:20):
100% of coaches right now.
We all know the statistics.
Not very many people make agood living at it and it's going
to get a hundred times harder.
What do you think has tochange for the profession so that
we can ask, invite, encourage,or does that all come from someone's
(35:41):
own personal yearning to be of service?
Well, that kind of directedthe question there, you know, does
it come from somebody'syearning to be of service?
Yeah, that would be a part of it.
So where are you coming fromwhen you're creating this?
Why are you using AI?
(36:02):
You know, if we're going touse it as a get rich quick scheme,
then we're going to chasedreams forever and ever.
But if, if that's a tool thatI can use to be of service to other
people and I can enhance theirlife and mine through the use of
AI, then I'm going to pourmyself into that.
Well, what I was thinking, Ithink I said the question wrong.
I'm just wondering what'sgoing to drive people to do the hard
(36:23):
work, to climb the mountainsor to overcome the inertia?
Because if we're designed toconserve energy and not be lazy,
but conserve energy.
Okay, what's going to drivepeople to do the extra work?
Because I think thistechnology change is going to make
it harder than it ever hasbeen to be a very effective and powerful
presence in the world of coaching.
(36:45):
Can I speak real quick?
And then Marta, I'd love tohear your thoughts on this too, because
you got this, you get abeautiful perspective here.
Charles Darwin said it's notthe most intelligent, we're the strongest
to survive.
It's the most adaptable to change.
Benjamin Franklin, I have thisquote says change is the only constant
in life.
One's ability to adapt willdetermine your success in life.
(37:07):
And that's it.
It is a determination and adecision to do that and then to put
in the effort as much as isneeded, which isn't a lot in most
cases.
A small amount of effort goesa long way consistently enough to
turn that into an automationwhere that now becomes your new identity.
And now that feeds into thesystem and you continue your Growth
patterns.
(37:28):
But I think the realizationthat most people resist change even
when it's good for them, isthat change is the only constant.
And this is the biggest thingto happen to humanity since fire
and electricity.
If you think about that.
It is, it is, it's gonna.
What do you think?
What do you think?
(37:48):
Well, it's, it's really cool.
What I'm, where I'm coming atis I thought about every single thing
that I've learned in my lifeand I thought about how people learn
and what we know.
Like let's say someone's adrug addict, right?
And then anything that has todo with recovery.
(38:12):
One like all the advice is goand hang out with other people, right?
Do not go and hang out withyour drug addict friends.
Go and hang out with other people.
And when I think aboutanything that I've ever, ever learned,
it comes to me a time when Idecided to be a coach and I was like,
ok, if I'm deciding to be acoach, what, what does a coach do?
(38:34):
Oh, in it, in the first idea Ihad is coach goes to a coaching conference,
right?
So I got on a plane, nevercoached a person in my life and went
to a place where the coacheswere to see and, and, and get infused
with that.
And to me this is still goingto be like that, right?
(38:58):
Because this is how, becausewe learn more than from information
as we already established, butwe learn in a whole body.
And I think the, the more the,the more the world does go, I mean
that's the predictions peopleare going to get.
Their jobs will be taken overby AI and the mental health crisis
will go up because we all needsomething to do, we need a purpose,
(39:22):
we need to give in to asociety and when we're not needed,
we get depressed.
So that's gonna, that's gonnabe a trend.
And to me the more it's gonnabe important creating in person communities,
creating places for people togo and get infused with, with that
(39:45):
which they want to learn.
And so the work I do in themountains, taking people in the mountains,
having them place their fear,doing retreats in, out from the craziness
that's happening right now,which is tons of information and
not a lot of embodied essence.
(40:13):
So we're, we're at about 40minutes and I want to give each of
you a couple of minutes to saylike when you came into this and
I kind of introduced the topicabout coaching and the rise of AI
and what it would do and whatit wouldn't do to, to wax poetic
about whatever it is that wedidn't talk about yet that, that
you think really needs to besaid in this conversation.
(40:40):
Yeah, I think the first placeto start is right here.
The awareness and the wakingup is the biggest challenge for most
people is they, they can'teven see their own automations.
I've developed tools to helppeople do that.
You know, I help myself dothat through the automations.
I'll tell it what I'm goingthrough and then it will call out
clearly what it is in anempathetic and gentle tone.
(41:03):
It will get crystal clear onwhat my challenges are.
And awakening is just oneportion of it.
Now you have to actually dosomething with it and most of us
end up fighting it andresisting what is.
And so we fight that so wedon't put energy into the new.
And.
And the challenge here isdon't try and get rid of what was
or what is.
Recognize that you're equippedwith everything you need to create
(41:26):
anything you can imagine.
And we have this ability totransform what is into those ideas.
So that's already there.
Now the challenge is what doyou want to create?
So creating a vision foryourself of what would I like to
step into, who would I like tobecome in this world of AI how do
I want to position myself inthe world of AI I have the equipment
(41:47):
it so I'm going to choose intoa vision like Alice in Wonderland.
He asked where are you going?
And she says I don't know.
And he says well, any pathwill do.
And so the moment sheclarifies her path now she has a
direction to go to.
And so with people coming intoAI choose your path, vision it clearly
enough and then surrender theway to get there because you don't
know how you're going toconnect those dots.
(42:08):
You just know you can andyou'll overcome all the obstacles.
Marta, you don't know on amountain what stone's going to come
next, but you know you canhandle it it right.
And, and so with humans wehave the ability to adapt.
So set the vision, surrenderhow you get there, but take the actions
and overcome as you moveforward towards something with AI
(42:29):
like move yourself into avision of who you are and what you're
going to do with AI thiscoming whether you want it to or
not.
So I would say put yourself ina position to use it as an augmentation
of what you do rather thanlosing yourself to it.
Figure it out before thetsunami hits.
Martin, what do you think?
What?
What didn't we talk about that Is.
(42:51):
Is sitting there that youthink we oughta.
Ought to put here?
I want to share a story, aclimbing story with you guys.
So a few years ago, I wasclimbing on the Leaning Tower in
Yosemite, and it's a verysteep wall, and it takes a couple
days to climb it.
And there was a moment, it wasone of these incredible moments where
(43:14):
my partner set up leading apitch, and.
And as he was pretty far outand it was pretty overhanging, I
realized that he forgot.
We forgot to give him what wecall a tagline, which is a line that
he.
Then he needs to have it,basically, and he doesn't have it.
And so I look at him, I'mlike, you don't have the tagline?
(43:36):
And he goes, well, throw methe tagline, right?
So we're within 30ft.
And.
And I. I didn't grow upplaying ball sports.
I.
Someone once told me that I'ma terrible thrower.
So I'm going, oh, my God, I'mgonna have to throw this line right
(43:56):
now.
And it's far and it's high.
And so what I start doing isstarting messing around with all
my stuff, and I'm like,clipping things and.
And he goes, stop messing around.
Throw me the line.
And I just take a shot and Inail it.
(44:16):
So how this ties in into thisstory is it's easy to mistake motion
for progress.
We can go and mess around withAI all we want, and it will do exactly
nothing unless we go and dosomething with it.
May it be initial mistake orfailure that will later lead to something.
(44:43):
But just sitting in there,just like people that are my clients
that have been going totherapy for 20 years, and they haven't
done anything with it, right?
They.
They're great at talking aboutthe problem, but there is no progress
going forward.
So to me, this is a big trapthat AI poses.
(45:03):
It's really easy to sit.
Sit in front of your computerand talk about your problem.
And in embodied life, we needto take that step.
We need to throw the line.
I love it, you guys.
This has been at least as goodas I hoped it would be in my expectations.
(45:23):
Always pretty flipping high.
So.
And that's just where I live.
I.
You ask, somebody asked me howI was, and I always say, flipping
outrageous because I live that way.
And you guys have performed,not performed.
You've been here, you showedup, you shared with each other, and
you've done this really well.
And this is about how long Iwant these episodes to be.
So thank you.
We could Talk about this for along time and that's okay.
(45:47):
Nick, thanks for coming andsharing your thoughts with me today.
Yeah.
Thank you for having me.
It's been fun.
Oh, yeah.
And Marta.
Yeah, I love it.
I love where you're coming from.
So very cool.
This, this is one thing Ithink that will distinguish is, is
you are so unique with youruse of AI.
I'm unique with my use of AI.
Everybody watching this isgoing to use it in their own way.
(46:10):
There is no limit.
There isn't.
Marta, thanks for being here today.
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
Kellen, what's funny?
Oh, just.
It's just great how eyeopening this conversation has been
for me.
It's.
It's fun to be, you know,playing jazz with you guys.
Yeah, that's exactly what it is.
(46:30):
And I'm a classically trainedjazz pianist, and so that's just
what we're doing.
Right?
All right, cool.
So both of you, thank you.
Nick, you need to get Marta'sbook, Masters of Badassery.
I guarantee you what you'veheard today is nothing compared to
what's in that book.
And what's fun for me in doingthese book projects and I had the
(46:52):
blessing of being able to helpher with hers is I get to edit all
of them, and that means I getto swim in the beauty.
So.
So cool.
All right, all of you that arelistening here, thank you for being
here.
This is one of our firstepisodes, and there's gonna be more
every Thursday.
And I want you to tie it intothis ultimate life idea which is
the foundation of the podcast.
(47:12):
Because as Nick said, and asyou know, in your heart, you do have
the ability to create whateveryou want.
And the question is, are yougoing to sit in the inertia or are
you going to put in the effortto use the gifts and talents that
you have and move forward tocreate your own ultimate life right
(47:44):
here, right now.
Your opportunity for massivegrowth is right in front of you.
Every episode gives youpractical tips and practices that
will change everything.
If you want to know more, goto California.
Helen fluckigermedia.com ifyou want more free tools, go here.
YourUltimateLife ca subscribe share.
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