February 5, 2024 • 25 mins
We are finally diving into the book, Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft! In today's episode we are uncovering the mystery behind an abuser's toxic behavior. If you find yourself constantly saying, "I don't understand," after your man has an explosive episode, this one may be for you! Listen in as we kick-off this book study series and learn why our partners behave the way they do. When we arm ourselves with this information, we are a step-ahead and a step further toward freedom from the cycle of abuse. No, he won't change. But you will!
Thank you so much for listening! I hope you enjoyed this podcast. If so, please leave a rating and review so we can spread the word to the women who need it the most. Below you'll find links to my website, social media, and resources for victims. If you believe you're in danger, please seek help immediately. There are people out there who want to help and who truly care. Myself included! You're worth so much more.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to wake up witches.
I'm your host, cat Adams, andI'm here to remind you that, no
matter where you're at in life,you're not stuck.
Hello again, and welcome backto the show.
(00:30):
I am all sorts of Frizzledtoday, not gonna laugh, because
last week was my first week atthe not at the new job, but it
starts somewhere else is in mynew role, and it kicked my ass.
It is such a shift for me that,yeah, having a hard time
(00:57):
Finding my rhythm, but when Ifind my rhythm, hopefully things
will go smoother and I can getback on track because, yeah, I
mean, my energy was just Notwhere it should be.
It was, yeah, as rough.
But Anyways, we're not here totalk about me today.
Today we're gonna talk about isactually the first episode
(01:21):
we're starting on the book whydoes he do that?
Inside the minds of angry andcontrolling men by Lundy
Bancroft, and I know you'veheard me talk about this plenty
of times.
This is one of my favoritebooks to recommend.
If you are Trying to understandwhat's going on with the jerk
(01:45):
you're with, you know, like I'vetold my story before about how,
when I first, I didn't knowabout abuse, so I was like
googling why is my boyfriendmean?
And then it led me down thispath to understand like, oh,
he's not mean, he's actuallyabusive and why he was doing
those things.
And this book Talks about that.
(02:05):
And now I know my podcast isabout empowering women, helping
women grow and helping women getout of these situations by
realizing that they have thepower to change their situation.
But it's important for women toknow what's going on, the why,
the how and how your mind'sbeing twisted Into being in that
(02:27):
situation.
So that's kind of why we'retalking about this book and
we're gonna go Chapterish bychapterish kind of it might
bleed one into the other, but Iam going to kind of focus in on
some key points here so youunderstand Exactly what's going
through his mind, so you canprepare yourself for that.
(02:50):
And a little bit of a backgroundabout the author is he works
with abusive men to try tounderstand them, to try to help
them.
It's not If you're coming hereto look for, oh, will he change?
I mean, you just read this book, it probably not.
We, you know, we say that onthis podcast no, he won't change
(03:12):
, but you will.
So don't be looking for allthat shit, because, yeah, I'm
not gonna blow smoke up your ass, and neither is this author.
So let me read to you a couplepassages that stuck out at me,
because one of the things whenwe talk about toxic men is, you
know, like the the violentphysical aspect, because you
(03:33):
think of abusive relationshipsand that's like the first thing
in your mind and from a lot ofabuse situations, that's not the
case.
It's psychological, it'semotional, it's not all about,
you know, black eyes, and it'shard to pinpoint that, it's hard
to define, like how oftenthat's happening, because we say
(03:55):
one in three women in the US isbeing abused, but it's hard to
define emotional andpsychological abuse.
It could very well be more, andit probably is in my experience
, maybe yours too.
So let me read this.
It says during the 1990s, thelegal system became much more
involved than it had been in thepast in responding to domestic
(04:15):
abuse, with the result thatcourt mandated clients started
at first to trickle and thenpour in the doors of our program
.
These men often had a muchgreater propensity for physical
violence than our earlierclients, sometimes involving the
use of weapons or viciousbeatings resulting in the
hospitalization of theirpartners.
Yet we observed that in otherways that these men were
(04:35):
generally not significantlydifferent from our verbally
abusive clients.
Their attitudes and excusestended to be the same and they
used mental cruelty side by sidewith their physical assaults.
Equally important was that thefemale partners of these
battering men were largelydescribing the same distresses
in their lives that we that wewere hearing about from other
women who had beenpsychologically abused, showing
(04:58):
us that different forms of abusehave similar destructive
impacts on women.
And I've always tried to defineexactly what I want my niche to
be.
And, yeah, we can talk aboutviolence.
That's horrible.
I am not an expert onresponding to violence okay, so
(05:18):
if you're not in a safesituation, there's resources out
there.
I am not that resource, but Ican talk a lot about emotional
and psychological abuse, and itusually goes hand-in-hand and
results in violence eventually.
Even in my past abusiverelationship, it did not start
out with violence.
Was there violence?
Yes, but it was mostlypsychological and emotional
(05:41):
abuse and the things youexperience if you don't ever get
a black eye and you're stillbeing emotionally and physically
abused.
This author is saying you sufferthe same destructive patterns
and the same destructivefeelings and you get stuck in
the same destructive cycle as ifyou were being physically
(06:04):
abused.
So there's a lot to say aboutemotional, psychological abuse.
It totally breaks your spiritto where you feel like you're
stuck, and you know peoplealways want to focus on the
physical, I think, because it'smore like.
They think it's more impactfulbecause you can see it, whereas
emotional, psychological,financial, those things you
(06:26):
can't.
But it's just as destructive.
So I like that he points thatout here.
And if you are, you know, oneof those people stuck in a
relationship and you're like,well, he's not hitting me, dude,
you're suffering the same as awoman that is being hit.
It is all the same.
So don't think like, oh well,it's not so bad, I could have it
(06:51):
worse, like you could have itbetter too, all right.
So the first chapter is calledthe mystery, and the mystery is
about this whole persona.
Outside perception the abusercreates is all on purpose, like
when you feel so fuckingconfused, that's all on purpose.
(07:12):
So let me read to you somequotes from some women that he
interviewed.
One says he's two differentpeople I feel like I'm living
with Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.
He really doesn't mean to hurtme, he just loses control.
Everyone else thinks he's great.
I don't know what it is aboutme that sets him off.
He's fine when he's sober, butwhen he's drunk, watch out.
(07:34):
I feel like he's never happywith anything I do.
He's scared me a few times, buthe never touches the children.
He's a great father.
He calls me disgusting namesand then an hour later he won't
sex.
I don't get it.
He messes up my mind sometimes.
The thing is he reallyunderstands me.
Why does he do that?
So those are all words fromwomen describing the conflicts
(07:57):
and their relationship.
They're women trying to figureout what the fuck is going on
inside their partner's head, andthey have been there and done
that.
And maybe you can relateHopefully not, but if you listen
to this show, you probably can.
And I remember I always used tosay, like what did I do?
I don't understand.
(08:17):
I don't understand, what did Ido.
Those were like my mostrepeated words when I was in my
toxic marriage was I don'tunderstand.
Because I didn't.
I was so confused I had no ideawhat was going through his head
to treat me a certain way when,like, I thought I had done
everything right.
And then when you do what theywant and you think, okay, I
(08:37):
learned my lesson last time, soI'm going to do it different
this time.
It's still not what they want.
They're going to change thescript and it's all on purpose.
It's all part of the mystery.
So Lani describes a few of thesecases he's worked with and then
he goes back to talking aboutthe different kinds of abuses.
(08:57):
He says we also know thatphysical assaults are just the
beginning of the abuse thatwomen may be subjected to.
There are millions more womenwho have never been beaten but
who live with repeated verbalassaults, humiliation, sexual
coercion and other forms ofpsychological abuse, often
accompanied by economicexploitation.
The scars from mental crueltycan be as deep and long lasting
(09:21):
as the wounds from punches orslaps, but are often not as
obvious.
In fact, even among women whohave experienced violence from a
partner, half or more reportthat the man's emotional abuse
is what is causing them thegreatest harm.
The differences between theverbally abusive man and the
physical batter are not as greatas many people believe.
The behavior of either style ofabuse or grows from the same
(09:44):
roots and it is driven by thesame thinking.
Men in either category followsimilar processes of change in
overcoming their abusiveness.
If they do change whichunfortunately is not common.
Boom fucking might drop.
It is not common.
There you go.
This man works with abusive menand he's been doing this for
decades.
(10:04):
And look, he just fucking toldyou don't hive your hopes up,
get out of that shit.
Foul for that divorce, but yougotta be safe first.
Where was I?
And the categories tend to blur.
Physically assaultive men arealso verbally abusive to their
partners.
Mentally cruel and manipulativemen tend to gradually drift
(10:25):
into using physical intimidationas well.
In this book you'll meetabusers on a spectrum ranging
from those who never usedviolence to those who are
terrifying.
The extent of their commonground may startle you.
One of the obstacles torecognizing chronic mistreatment
in relationships is that mostabusive men simply don't seem
like abusers.
(10:45):
They have many good qualities,including times of kindness,
warmth and humor, especially inthe early period of a
relationship.
Love bombing and abusers.
Friends may think the world ofhim.
He may have a successful worklife and have no problems with
drugs or alcohol.
He may simply not fit intoanyone's image of a cruel or
intimidating person.
So when a woman feels herrelationship spinning out of
(11:08):
control, it's unlikely to occurto her that her partner is an
abuser.
The symptoms of abuse are thereand the women usually see them
the escalating frequency of putdowns, early generosity turning
more and more to selfishness,verbal explosions when he has
irritated or when he doesn't gethis way.
Her grievances constantlyturned around on her so that
everything is her own fault.
(11:29):
His growing attitude that heknows what is good for her
better than she does, and, inmany relationships, a mounting
sense of fear or intimidation.
But the woman also sees thather partner is a human being who
can be caring and affectionateat times, and she loves him.
She wants to figure out why hegets so upset, so that she can
help him break his patterns ofups and downs.
Right, I don't understand.
(11:50):
I don't understand.
What did I do?
Right?
She gets drawn into thecomplexity of complexities of
his inner world, trying touncover clues, moving pieces
around in an attempt to solve anelaborate puzzle.
The abuser's mood changes areespecially perplexing.
He can be a different personfrom day to day or even from
hour to hour, and that is bydesign.
(12:14):
It's part of this mystery.
They are creating to fuck youup so you don't know which way
is up from down.
I've heard it described as thefog.
You are in the fog and that ison purpose.
He goes on to explain it.
He says I came to realizethrough my experience with over
2,000 abusers that the abusiveman wants to be a mystery, to
(12:39):
get away with his behavior andto avoid having to face his
problem.
He needs to convince everyonearound him and himself that his
behavior makes no sense.
He needs his partner to focuson everything except the real
causes of his behavior.
To see the abuser as he reallyis, it is necessary to strip
away layer after layer ofconfusion, mixed messages and
(13:01):
deception.
Like anyone with a seriousproblem, abusers work hard to
keep their true selves hidden.
Part of how the abuser escapesconfronting himself is by
convincing you that you're thecause of his behavior or that
you at least share the blame.
But abuse is not a product of abad relationship dynamic and
you cannot make things better bychanging your own behavior or
(13:23):
by attempting to manage yourpartner better.
Abuse is a problem that liesentirely within the abuser.
So there you go.
He said it Like.
This is all on purpose.
He's miss mysterious.
You know, like I, and if youare in this situation, you do
see the Dr Jekyll, mr High thing, I'm sure, because they can be
(13:45):
so charismatic.
Right, most of them werenarcissists not all but they can
be so charismatic and everyoneloves them.
Maybe they even like go tochurch and they're like, oh,
it's upstanding citizen on theoutside, but behind closed doors
he's tearing you down.
You know he's being just acomplete jerk.
He's breaking your spirit.
He might be hitting you like itIs flip-flop, because he needs
(14:09):
you to Be confused.
He needs you to not understandhim.
That's whole, all part of theway he traps you into this cycle
and it also makes you blameyourself because you're like
what can I do better?
I have to fix something.
Let me change for him.
And remember on this podcast,we don't do that shit.
(14:31):
We change for us.
Don't change thinking.
Next time he'll react betterbecause I'm gonna do it this way
.
Next time he's not gonna reactbetter, all right, there might
not even be a next time.
I'm here to advise you to getthe fuck out while you can't.
This is not a podcast and ifyou're new here, you're gonna
learn this.
This is not a podcast where Itell you to stay.
(14:54):
Work on your marriage.
No, I am your divorce buddy,all right.
I am highly encouraging ofdivorcing a toxic man or someone
you're miserable with, andmaybe this sounds harsh, but
Maybe he's not that bad.
But you're just, you know, adead relationship.
I'm here for you to tell youthat there's life out there to
(15:16):
be living and there are peopleout there who are going to show
you the world.
But you can't sit aroundfeeling sorry for yourself and
Expect things to change, becauseI won't.
Especially your man.
He won't change and I knowthat's like oh, blanket
statement.
But at this point look aroundyou like I might get flat for
(15:40):
saying this many of the cause ofmost problems All right, look
at that.
Violence rates.
I think it was like 80% of menare the are the ones committing
violent crimes, probably evenmore than that.
Like it's not gonna change.
It's not gonna change.
You have to change for you.
And that's as far as we'regetting today in the book,
(16:02):
because I just wanted to focuson the mystery, the illusion,
the confusion.
In the next chapter is going tobe the mythology, so like those
myths of why he might not, whyhe is acting that way.
Like, well, maybe he wasbrought up, you know, in this
situation, or maybe a girlreally broke his heart and it's
(16:23):
gonna break that shit down too.
This is an amazing book.
It goes step by step, intogetting into their minds.
And then one of the Chapters Ithink it's several chapters.
It's been a while since I'veread this.
I'm reading it along with thispodcast now again.
But one of them breaks down likewhat kind of abuser he is.
I think there's like four orfive, there's one that's like
(16:46):
the terrorist, and those arejust downright terrifying.
You know, and Maybe it's hardto believe, but this happens
where they do lock you into likea closet or a room all day and
give you a bucket to use For thebathroom because they don't
want you to escape.
This is Happening, like allover the world.
(17:10):
Yes, right here, probably evenin your city, if you know,
already know I have worked oncases where it's that level of
Abuse going on.
But this book here is tellingyou that even if you're not at
that level and you're beingemotionally and psychologically
(17:31):
abused, you're gonna experiencethe same like PTSD, trauma
symptoms as the woman beinglocked in a closet and it's
fucking awful.
It all bleeds into one another.
So I don't want to hear oh, atleast he's not hitting me.
Or don't ever tell a friend, atleast he's not hitting you,
because Emotional andpsychological abuse is just as
(17:54):
fucking dangerous.
And I get so tired of peoplelike setting the bar at black
eyes like we don't want to dothat.
We're not gonna set the bar ata broken nose or a black eye or
Anything that we can see,because that shit we can't see
is Gonna break you down just asmuch.
So that's all I have today.
(18:16):
I know this episode is kind of alittle bit different because
it's like, oh you know, I'mgetting more Not as free
thinking, but more Like into thescience of things, into the
educational Peace and also y'all, I'm not gonna lie, I feel like
shit.
I feel like shit.
So I am running on empty rightnow because my last week was so
(18:40):
draining and I'm like I debated,even recording this podcast of
I'm gonna be totally real andtransparent.
I was like I, I don't want todo it, I don't feel good.
I've got so much stuff to dotoday.
I've got a prep for my jobtomorrow because Monday is like
my biggest, my biggest day forme, because I got a lot of
pressure on me Mondays now toExplain why my departments met
(19:08):
their goal or did not meet theirgoal, and it's stressful for me
.
So yeah, just being fullytransparent, not to switch gears
here, but I I just I'm a littlebit out of it today.
So if this episode I was not asbubbly and funny as Normal,
just forgive me.
I promise to do better nexttime when I hopefully have my
(19:31):
shit together.
But I was like I'm not gonnalet my listeners down and skip a
Monday posting because I know Idid that a couple weeks back
when I was sick and I'm like Ijust can't, I'm not gonna do it.
I'm gonna get my shit togetherand start batch recording again.
So maybe these will flow better.
But not doing that todaybecause I know when I need to Do
(19:58):
some self-care and someself-love and remember go back
to that episode like summonyourself Seance Sundays or
whatever.
I think that was like my secondor third episode, I don't
remember, but I'm doing that.
I am having a seance of one andand Checking in with me today
because I need it.
So this is me Apologizing ifthis episode didn't float your
(20:22):
boat, but at least I recorded anepisode right, I Hope you stay
safe.
I hope you did get something outof this episode.
I hope, if you're on the fenceon like, should I stay, should I
go?
You heard it from the manhimself who works with these
people is very uncommon for themto change.
But you're gonna hear it fromme I don't.
(20:42):
I don't think they change.
So don't, don't stay, but besafe For a plan.
Go back, listen, listen toprevious podcast episodes where
I talk about all that.
Read the book.
Read my book.
You're not stuck.
Oh my gosh, that's gonna be sohelpful for you because on this
podcast we again I know I say ita million times we do not focus
(21:03):
on if he will change.
We focus on.
We need to change so we can getout and enjoy the other side.
It is amazing and I also I talkabout this all the time.
There are men out there who arenot like this.
There are men out there whoactually are equal partners and
it is freaking, exhilaratingy'all.
(21:27):
I just I had a date night lastnight with my husband and we've
been together for four years now, married for coming up on two,
and we're still not immune phase.
I mean, we hardly ever, ever,ever have arguments, and the
other day I Found out somethinghe was working on was like 365
(21:52):
things I love about you, so Icould have one for every day.
He's got a list going y'alllike what the fuck?
What kind of me and does that?
You can have that.
So if you are stuck with afuddy-duddy or someone who's not
gonna put in the effort, orjust a plain asshole, don't do
that to yourself.
You can truly find a passionate, fun, loving man or woman,
(22:17):
whatever you want, out there, oryou don't.
Just, you don't even have tohave that.
If you want to just be alone,that's okay too, because that's
way better than being with atoxic partner, whether they are
emotionally, physically,psychologically, financially
abusive or Just a bore, a stickin the mud.
(22:38):
I know, right, that sounds mean.
Like, oh, you shouldn't saydivorce, you're sticking the mud
, husband, you.
I mean, I am kind of sayingthat I was gonna say no, I'm not
saying that.
I am kind of saying thatbecause I believe you are worth
life.
I believe you are worth findingout for yourself that the short
(23:00):
time you have on earth can beabsolutely thrilling.
You can be having your bestlife ever If you stop wondering
like should I stay or should Igo?
Whatever decision you makeyou're gonna have to live with
and I'm just a living testimonyof saying, hey, it is possible
(23:23):
to go and not be.
Oh, I can't survive withoutthis person, to holy shit.
I had missed out on so muchalready, so don't do that.
I talked about that in the lastepisode.
Like man, I had missed out onabout 20 years of my life and I
(23:46):
can't get that back.
Don't be like me.
Life is out there and it'swaiting for you.
So stay safe.
That's all I have I promisenext episode I will be back to
bubbly self.
I hope we'll see.
We'll see what I have toexplain tomorrow in my meetings,
fingers crossed.
It's not too stressful and toomuch pressure for me.
(24:08):
I'm learning, I'm learning andI'm growing.
But yeah, I'll see you nexttime and we're gonna discuss
those myths on the bullshit youtell yourself on why he's
treating you that way.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you love the show, pleaseleave a rating, a review, and if
you know anyone who also mightlove the show or who could
(24:30):
benefit from this information,please be sure to share it and
subscribe.
The more we get this out topeople, the more people we can
help, and I truly believethere's so many women who need
to hear these words, because somany women are feeling stuck.
Also, if you're looking for me,you can usually find me on the
ground at author Cat Adams, andbe sure to head over to my
(24:53):
website, and that's catadamsadamswithadoubled'scom.
Subscribe to my newsletter forthe latest information.
Also, when you subscribe,you're gonna get a free novella.
And just be forewarned, myOronti romcom is as dirty as my
mouth.
So if that's your thing, go forit.
It's super hilarious.
(25:13):
But thank you again for tuningin.
Until next time, please staysafe and I'll see you on the
other side, nctzeniel.
It's time to wake up witches.
I'm your host, cat Adams, andI'm here to remind you that, no
matter where you're at in life,you're not stuck.
Hello again, and welcome backto the show.
(00:30):
I am all sorts of Frizzledtoday, not gonna laugh, because
last week was my first week atthe not at the new job, but it
starts somewhere else is in mynew role, and it kicked my ass.
It is such a shift for me that,yeah, having a hard time
(00:57):
Finding my rhythm, but when Ifind my rhythm, hopefully things
will go smoother and I can getback on track because, yeah, I
mean, my energy was just Notwhere it should be.
It was, yeah, as rough.
But Anyways, we're not here totalk about me today.
Today we're gonna talk about isactually the first episode
(01:21):
we're starting on the book whydoes he do that?
Inside the minds of angry andcontrolling men by Lundy
Bancroft, and I know you'veheard me talk about this plenty
of times.
This is one of my favoritebooks to recommend.
If you are Trying to understandwhat's going on with the jerk
(01:45):
you're with, you know, like I'vetold my story before about how,
when I first, I didn't knowabout abuse, so I was like
googling why is my boyfriendmean?
And then it led me down thispath to understand like, oh,
he's not mean, he's actuallyabusive and why he was doing
those things.
And this book Talks about that.
(02:05):
And now I know my podcast isabout empowering women, helping
women grow and helping women getout of these situations by
realizing that they have thepower to change their situation.
But it's important for women toknow what's going on, the why,
the how and how your mind'sbeing twisted Into being in that
(02:27):
situation.
So that's kind of why we'retalking about this book and
we're gonna go Chapterish bychapterish kind of it might
bleed one into the other, but Iam going to kind of focus in on
some key points here so youunderstand Exactly what's going
through his mind, so you canprepare yourself for that.
(02:50):
And a little bit of a backgroundabout the author is he works
with abusive men to try tounderstand them, to try to help
them.
It's not If you're coming hereto look for, oh, will he change?
I mean, you just read this book, it probably not.
We, you know, we say that onthis podcast no, he won't change
(03:12):
, but you will.
So don't be looking for allthat shit, because, yeah, I'm
not gonna blow smoke up your ass, and neither is this author.
So let me read to you a couplepassages that stuck out at me,
because one of the things whenwe talk about toxic men is, you
know, like the the violentphysical aspect, because you
(03:33):
think of abusive relationshipsand that's like the first thing
in your mind and from a lot ofabuse situations, that's not the
case.
It's psychological, it'semotional, it's not all about,
you know, black eyes, and it'shard to pinpoint that, it's hard
to define, like how oftenthat's happening, because we say
(03:55):
one in three women in the US isbeing abused, but it's hard to
define emotional andpsychological abuse.
It could very well be more, andit probably is in my experience
, maybe yours too.
So let me read this.
It says during the 1990s, thelegal system became much more
involved than it had been in thepast in responding to domestic
(04:15):
abuse, with the result thatcourt mandated clients started
at first to trickle and thenpour in the doors of our program
.
These men often had a muchgreater propensity for physical
violence than our earlierclients, sometimes involving the
use of weapons or viciousbeatings resulting in the
hospitalization of theirpartners.
Yet we observed that in otherways that these men were
(04:35):
generally not significantlydifferent from our verbally
abusive clients.
Their attitudes and excusestended to be the same and they
used mental cruelty side by sidewith their physical assaults.
Equally important was that thefemale partners of these
battering men were largelydescribing the same distresses
in their lives that we that wewere hearing about from other
women who had beenpsychologically abused, showing
(04:58):
us that different forms of abusehave similar destructive
impacts on women.
And I've always tried to defineexactly what I want my niche to
be.
And, yeah, we can talk aboutviolence.
That's horrible.
I am not an expert onresponding to violence okay, so
(05:18):
if you're not in a safesituation, there's resources out
there.
I am not that resource, but Ican talk a lot about emotional
and psychological abuse, and itusually goes hand-in-hand and
results in violence eventually.
Even in my past abusiverelationship, it did not start
out with violence.
Was there violence?
Yes, but it was mostlypsychological and emotional
(05:41):
abuse and the things youexperience if you don't ever get
a black eye and you're stillbeing emotionally and physically
abused.
This author is saying you sufferthe same destructive patterns
and the same destructivefeelings and you get stuck in
the same destructive cycle as ifyou were being physically
(06:04):
abused.
So there's a lot to say aboutemotional, psychological abuse.
It totally breaks your spiritto where you feel like you're
stuck, and you know peoplealways want to focus on the
physical, I think, because it'smore like.
They think it's more impactfulbecause you can see it, whereas
emotional, psychological,financial, those things you
(06:26):
can't.
But it's just as destructive.
So I like that he points thatout here.
And if you are, you know, oneof those people stuck in a
relationship and you're like,well, he's not hitting me, dude,
you're suffering the same as awoman that is being hit.
It is all the same.
So don't think like, oh well,it's not so bad, I could have it
(06:51):
worse, like you could have itbetter too, all right.
So the first chapter is calledthe mystery, and the mystery is
about this whole persona.
Outside perception the abusercreates is all on purpose, like
when you feel so fuckingconfused, that's all on purpose.
(07:12):
So let me read to you somequotes from some women that he
interviewed.
One says he's two differentpeople I feel like I'm living
with Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.
He really doesn't mean to hurtme, he just loses control.
Everyone else thinks he's great.
I don't know what it is aboutme that sets him off.
He's fine when he's sober, butwhen he's drunk, watch out.
(07:34):
I feel like he's never happywith anything I do.
He's scared me a few times, buthe never touches the children.
He's a great father.
He calls me disgusting namesand then an hour later he won't
sex.
I don't get it.
He messes up my mind sometimes.
The thing is he reallyunderstands me.
Why does he do that?
So those are all words fromwomen describing the conflicts
(07:57):
and their relationship.
They're women trying to figureout what the fuck is going on
inside their partner's head, andthey have been there and done
that.
And maybe you can relateHopefully not, but if you listen
to this show, you probably can.
And I remember I always used tosay, like what did I do?
I don't understand.
(08:17):
I don't understand, what did Ido.
Those were like my mostrepeated words when I was in my
toxic marriage was I don'tunderstand.
Because I didn't.
I was so confused I had no ideawhat was going through his head
to treat me a certain way when,like, I thought I had done
everything right.
And then when you do what theywant and you think, okay, I
(08:37):
learned my lesson last time, soI'm going to do it different
this time.
It's still not what they want.
They're going to change thescript and it's all on purpose.
It's all part of the mystery.
So Lani describes a few of thesecases he's worked with and then
he goes back to talking aboutthe different kinds of abuses.
(08:57):
He says we also know thatphysical assaults are just the
beginning of the abuse thatwomen may be subjected to.
There are millions more womenwho have never been beaten but
who live with repeated verbalassaults, humiliation, sexual
coercion and other forms ofpsychological abuse, often
accompanied by economicexploitation.
The scars from mental crueltycan be as deep and long lasting
(09:21):
as the wounds from punches orslaps, but are often not as
obvious.
In fact, even among women whohave experienced violence from a
partner, half or more reportthat the man's emotional abuse
is what is causing them thegreatest harm.
The differences between theverbally abusive man and the
physical batter are not as greatas many people believe.
The behavior of either style ofabuse or grows from the same
(09:44):
roots and it is driven by thesame thinking.
Men in either category followsimilar processes of change in
overcoming their abusiveness.
If they do change whichunfortunately is not common.
Boom fucking might drop.
It is not common.
There you go.
This man works with abusive menand he's been doing this for
decades.
(10:04):
And look, he just fucking toldyou don't hive your hopes up,
get out of that shit.
Foul for that divorce, but yougotta be safe first.
Where was I?
And the categories tend to blur.
Physically assaultive men arealso verbally abusive to their
partners.
Mentally cruel and manipulativemen tend to gradually drift
(10:25):
into using physical intimidationas well.
In this book you'll meetabusers on a spectrum ranging
from those who never usedviolence to those who are
terrifying.
The extent of their commonground may startle you.
One of the obstacles torecognizing chronic mistreatment
in relationships is that mostabusive men simply don't seem
like abusers.
(10:45):
They have many good qualities,including times of kindness,
warmth and humor, especially inthe early period of a
relationship.
Love bombing and abusers.
Friends may think the world ofhim.
He may have a successful worklife and have no problems with
drugs or alcohol.
He may simply not fit intoanyone's image of a cruel or
intimidating person.
So when a woman feels herrelationship spinning out of
(11:08):
control, it's unlikely to occurto her that her partner is an
abuser.
The symptoms of abuse are thereand the women usually see them
the escalating frequency of putdowns, early generosity turning
more and more to selfishness,verbal explosions when he has
irritated or when he doesn't gethis way.
Her grievances constantlyturned around on her so that
everything is her own fault.
(11:29):
His growing attitude that heknows what is good for her
better than she does, and, inmany relationships, a mounting
sense of fear or intimidation.
But the woman also sees thather partner is a human being who
can be caring and affectionateat times, and she loves him.
She wants to figure out why hegets so upset, so that she can
help him break his patterns ofups and downs.
Right, I don't understand.
(11:50):
I don't understand.
What did I do?
Right?
She gets drawn into thecomplexity of complexities of
his inner world, trying touncover clues, moving pieces
around in an attempt to solve anelaborate puzzle.
The abuser's mood changes areespecially perplexing.
He can be a different personfrom day to day or even from
hour to hour, and that is bydesign.
(12:14):
It's part of this mystery.
They are creating to fuck youup so you don't know which way
is up from down.
I've heard it described as thefog.
You are in the fog and that ison purpose.
He goes on to explain it.
He says I came to realizethrough my experience with over
2,000 abusers that the abusiveman wants to be a mystery, to
(12:39):
get away with his behavior andto avoid having to face his
problem.
He needs to convince everyonearound him and himself that his
behavior makes no sense.
He needs his partner to focuson everything except the real
causes of his behavior.
To see the abuser as he reallyis, it is necessary to strip
away layer after layer ofconfusion, mixed messages and
(13:01):
deception.
Like anyone with a seriousproblem, abusers work hard to
keep their true selves hidden.
Part of how the abuser escapesconfronting himself is by
convincing you that you're thecause of his behavior or that
you at least share the blame.
But abuse is not a product of abad relationship dynamic and
you cannot make things better bychanging your own behavior or
(13:23):
by attempting to manage yourpartner better.
Abuse is a problem that liesentirely within the abuser.
So there you go.
He said it Like.
This is all on purpose.
He's miss mysterious.
You know, like I, and if youare in this situation, you do
see the Dr Jekyll, mr High thing, I'm sure, because they can be
(13:45):
so charismatic.
Right, most of them werenarcissists not all but they can
be so charismatic and everyoneloves them.
Maybe they even like go tochurch and they're like, oh,
it's upstanding citizen on theoutside, but behind closed doors
he's tearing you down.
You know he's being just acomplete jerk.
He's breaking your spirit.
He might be hitting you like itIs flip-flop, because he needs
(14:09):
you to Be confused.
He needs you to not understandhim.
That's whole, all part of theway he traps you into this cycle
and it also makes you blameyourself because you're like
what can I do better?
I have to fix something.
Let me change for him.
And remember on this podcast,we don't do that shit.
(14:31):
We change for us.
Don't change thinking.
Next time he'll react betterbecause I'm gonna do it this way
.
Next time he's not gonna reactbetter, all right, there might
not even be a next time.
I'm here to advise you to getthe fuck out while you can't.
This is not a podcast and ifyou're new here, you're gonna
learn this.
This is not a podcast where Itell you to stay.
(14:54):
Work on your marriage.
No, I am your divorce buddy,all right.
I am highly encouraging ofdivorcing a toxic man or someone
you're miserable with, andmaybe this sounds harsh, but
Maybe he's not that bad.
But you're just, you know, adead relationship.
I'm here for you to tell youthat there's life out there to
(15:16):
be living and there are peopleout there who are going to show
you the world.
But you can't sit aroundfeeling sorry for yourself and
Expect things to change, becauseI won't.
Especially your man.
He won't change and I knowthat's like oh, blanket
statement.
But at this point look aroundyou like I might get flat for
(15:40):
saying this many of the cause ofmost problems All right, look
at that.
Violence rates.
I think it was like 80% of menare the are the ones committing
violent crimes, probably evenmore than that.
Like it's not gonna change.
It's not gonna change.
You have to change for you.
And that's as far as we'regetting today in the book,
(16:02):
because I just wanted to focuson the mystery, the illusion,
the confusion.
In the next chapter is going tobe the mythology, so like those
myths of why he might not, whyhe is acting that way.
Like, well, maybe he wasbrought up, you know, in this
situation, or maybe a girlreally broke his heart and it's
(16:23):
gonna break that shit down too.
This is an amazing book.
It goes step by step, intogetting into their minds.
And then one of the Chapters Ithink it's several chapters.
It's been a while since I'veread this.
I'm reading it along with thispodcast now again.
But one of them breaks down likewhat kind of abuser he is.
I think there's like four orfive, there's one that's like
(16:46):
the terrorist, and those arejust downright terrifying.
You know, and Maybe it's hardto believe, but this happens
where they do lock you into likea closet or a room all day and
give you a bucket to use For thebathroom because they don't
want you to escape.
This is Happening, like allover the world.
(17:10):
Yes, right here, probably evenin your city, if you know,
already know I have worked oncases where it's that level of
Abuse going on.
But this book here is tellingyou that even if you're not at
that level and you're beingemotionally and psychologically
(17:31):
abused, you're gonna experiencethe same like PTSD, trauma
symptoms as the woman beinglocked in a closet and it's
fucking awful.
It all bleeds into one another.
So I don't want to hear oh, atleast he's not hitting me.
Or don't ever tell a friend, atleast he's not hitting you,
because Emotional andpsychological abuse is just as
(17:54):
fucking dangerous.
And I get so tired of peoplelike setting the bar at black
eyes like we don't want to dothat.
We're not gonna set the bar ata broken nose or a black eye or
Anything that we can see,because that shit we can't see
is Gonna break you down just asmuch.
So that's all I have today.
(18:16):
I know this episode is kind of alittle bit different because
it's like, oh you know, I'mgetting more Not as free
thinking, but more Like into thescience of things, into the
educational Peace and also y'all, I'm not gonna lie, I feel like
shit.
I feel like shit.
So I am running on empty rightnow because my last week was so
(18:40):
draining and I'm like I debated,even recording this podcast of
I'm gonna be totally real andtransparent.
I was like I, I don't want todo it, I don't feel good.
I've got so much stuff to dotoday.
I've got a prep for my jobtomorrow because Monday is like
my biggest, my biggest day forme, because I got a lot of
pressure on me Mondays now toExplain why my departments met
(19:08):
their goal or did not meet theirgoal, and it's stressful for me
.
So yeah, just being fullytransparent, not to switch gears
here, but I I just I'm a littlebit out of it today.
So if this episode I was not asbubbly and funny as Normal,
just forgive me.
I promise to do better nexttime when I hopefully have my
(19:31):
shit together.
But I was like I'm not gonnalet my listeners down and skip a
Monday posting because I know Idid that a couple weeks back
when I was sick and I'm like Ijust can't, I'm not gonna do it.
I'm gonna get my shit togetherand start batch recording again.
So maybe these will flow better.
But not doing that todaybecause I know when I need to Do
(19:58):
some self-care and someself-love and remember go back
to that episode like summonyourself Seance Sundays or
whatever.
I think that was like my secondor third episode, I don't
remember, but I'm doing that.
I am having a seance of one andand Checking in with me today
because I need it.
So this is me Apologizing ifthis episode didn't float your
(20:22):
boat, but at least I recorded anepisode right, I Hope you stay
safe.
I hope you did get something outof this episode.
I hope, if you're on the fenceon like, should I stay, should I
go?
You heard it from the manhimself who works with these
people is very uncommon for themto change.
But you're gonna hear it fromme I don't.
(20:42):
I don't think they change.
So don't, don't stay, but besafe For a plan.
Go back, listen, listen toprevious podcast episodes where
I talk about all that.
Read the book.
Read my book.
You're not stuck.
Oh my gosh, that's gonna be sohelpful for you because on this
podcast we again I know I say ita million times we do not focus
(21:03):
on if he will change.
We focus on.
We need to change so we can getout and enjoy the other side.
It is amazing and I also I talkabout this all the time.
There are men out there who arenot like this.
There are men out there whoactually are equal partners and
it is freaking, exhilaratingy'all.
(21:27):
I just I had a date night lastnight with my husband and we've
been together for four years now, married for coming up on two,
and we're still not immune phase.
I mean, we hardly ever, ever,ever have arguments, and the
other day I Found out somethinghe was working on was like 365
(21:52):
things I love about you, so Icould have one for every day.
He's got a list going y'alllike what the fuck?
What kind of me and does that?
You can have that.
So if you are stuck with afuddy-duddy or someone who's not
gonna put in the effort, orjust a plain asshole, don't do
that to yourself.
You can truly find a passionate, fun, loving man or woman,
(22:17):
whatever you want, out there, oryou don't.
Just, you don't even have tohave that.
If you want to just be alone,that's okay too, because that's
way better than being with atoxic partner, whether they are
emotionally, physically,psychologically, financially
abusive or Just a bore, a stickin the mud.
(22:38):
I know, right, that sounds mean.
Like, oh, you shouldn't saydivorce, you're sticking the mud
, husband, you.
I mean, I am kind of sayingthat I was gonna say no, I'm not
saying that.
I am kind of saying thatbecause I believe you are worth
life.
I believe you are worth findingout for yourself that the short
(23:00):
time you have on earth can beabsolutely thrilling.
You can be having your bestlife ever If you stop wondering
like should I stay or should Igo?
Whatever decision you makeyou're gonna have to live with
and I'm just a living testimonyof saying, hey, it is possible
(23:23):
to go and not be.
Oh, I can't survive withoutthis person, to holy shit.
I had missed out on so muchalready, so don't do that.
I talked about that in the lastepisode.
Like man, I had missed out onabout 20 years of my life and I
(23:46):
can't get that back.
Don't be like me.
Life is out there and it'swaiting for you.
So stay safe.
That's all I have I promisenext episode I will be back to
bubbly self.
I hope we'll see.
We'll see what I have toexplain tomorrow in my meetings,
fingers crossed.
It's not too stressful and toomuch pressure for me.
(24:08):
I'm learning, I'm learning andI'm growing.
But yeah, I'll see you nexttime and we're gonna discuss
those myths on the bullshit youtell yourself on why he's
treating you that way.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you love the show, pleaseleave a rating, a review, and if
you know anyone who also mightlove the show or who could
(24:30):
benefit from this information,please be sure to share it and
subscribe.
The more we get this out topeople, the more people we can
help, and I truly believethere's so many women who need
to hear these words, because somany women are feeling stuck.
Also, if you're looking for me,you can usually find me on the
ground at author Cat Adams, andbe sure to head over to my
(24:53):
website, and that's catadamsadamswithadoubled'scom.
Subscribe to my newsletter forthe latest information.
Also, when you subscribe,you're gonna get a free novella.
And just be forewarned, myOronti romcom is as dirty as my
mouth.
So if that's your thing, go forit.
It's super hilarious.
(25:13):
But thank you again for tuningin.
Until next time, please staysafe and I'll see you on the
other side, nctzeniel.
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