May 12, 2025 • 17 mins
GREEN ENERGY IS EXPENSIVE AND UNRELIABLE ENERGY And Amy Oliver Cooke writes about it here for Complete Colorado. This is my favorite part:
Environmentalists appealed to consumers by saying wind and solar would save ratepayers money. From the outset, Governor Polis refused to provide a detailed cost analysis of his plan while rejecting Independence Institute’s 2017 projection that the transition could cost $45 billion. Polis insisted the Institute’s estimates were inflated and modeled a plan that wasn’t even his. Yet, Polis never offered an alternative figure, saying, instead, he knows it will be less.Fast forward to 2024. The Colorado Energy Office’s (CEO) Ascend Analytics report offered an acknowledgment and a sobering warning: Polis’s wind, solar, and battery-only system would require 69,000 megawatts of new capacity by 2040 and still “barely meet reliability targets.” At $61 billion, it’s also the most expensive scenario studied. That figure doesn’t even include the billions of dollars needed for transmission costs. The total system cost will be far greater.Once again, the Institute did the math. The total system cost for Polis’ plan, including storage, necessary overbuild, backup, property taxes, and utility profits, new wind and solar costs $280–$319 per megawatt-hour, compared to $32 for existing coal and $40 for gas. Wind and solar costs aren’t just expensive—they’re economically destabilizing.
Amy is on the show to discuss at 1pm, but you really should watch her great show with Jake Fogelman called Power Gab here.
Environmentalists appealed to consumers by saying wind and solar would save ratepayers money. From the outset, Governor Polis refused to provide a detailed cost analysis of his plan while rejecting Independence Institute’s 2017 projection that the transition could cost $45 billion. Polis insisted the Institute’s estimates were inflated and modeled a plan that wasn’t even his. Yet, Polis never offered an alternative figure, saying, instead, he knows it will be less.Fast forward to 2024. The Colorado Energy Office’s (CEO) Ascend Analytics report offered an acknowledgment and a sobering warning: Polis’s wind, solar, and battery-only system would require 69,000 megawatts of new capacity by 2040 and still “barely meet reliability targets.” At $61 billion, it’s also the most expensive scenario studied. That figure doesn’t even include the billions of dollars needed for transmission costs. The total system cost will be far greater.Once again, the Institute did the math. The total system cost for Polis’ plan, including storage, necessary overbuild, backup, property taxes, and utility profits, new wind and solar costs $280–$319 per megawatt-hour, compared to $32 for existing coal and $40 for gas. Wind and solar costs aren’t just expensive—they’re economically destabilizing.
Amy is on the show to discuss at 1pm, but you really should watch her great show with Jake Fogelman called Power Gab here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Please as punch to have one of the smarty pantss
from the Independence Institute. She's Amy Oliver Cook, and she
and Jake Fogelman do a very nerdy but also entertaining
show on the Independence Institute's YouTube channel called power Gab,
which is a clever play power Grab, power Gab Get
it Only they just talk about energy stuff and it's very,
(00:22):
very interesting. And Amy's on the show now to talk
about a column she just wrote about how our governor's
net zero dreams are going to not only make us
a lot poorer, they are also going to have us
wondering if the lights will come on when we need
them to.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Amy, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Hey, thanks Mandy. I appreciate you and appreciate the kind
words about Power Gab. Yeah, it is quite nerdy. I
haven't often heard it called entertaining, but I guess you know,
even people who don't think they're funny occasionally can be funny.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Sometimes a blind squirrel finds a nut. Amy, But I
know you're very funny. Wait, we have to get a
little piece of business out of the way really quickly.
You are in a regulatory boot camp. There are easier
ways to lose weight. Amy, Okay, there's got to be
what is that?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
This just goes to show you why I do something
called power gab. This is actually eight to five Monday
through Friday this week. It is the basics of utility
and electricity regulation. Wow, it's the stuff that dec commissioners
look at. Right And in fact, in just a moment,
(01:31):
we'll be talking about revenue requirements. Oh yeah, if you
know how to party.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I do.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I do. I know how to have a great time.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
You're free to join me. No, I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
This is why the independence ins to do is so necessary.
So Amy can go to regulatory boot camp and the
rest of us don't have to.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Let's talk about your columns exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, Colorado's forced march to energy uncertainty. This is almost
a victor relap in a way, because you guys predicted
what is now happening in terms of what this green
transition is going to cost a few years ago. But
of course the governor said na uh yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
And actually I should say this. I really want to
be wrong, right, like there is no pleasure in being
right in any of this. First time I wrote about
increased prices and decrease reliability was in December I think
it was December twenty ten, and oh no, that's not
(02:37):
going to happen. And you know, and the thing is
you could just see where all of this was going,
and that once you can see it, then you can't
unsee it. And yeah, we are. The governor thinks we
are going to power this state with wind, boler plus
(02:59):
battery and and then and then I love this, back
it up with quote clean unquote hydrogen. What that means
is hydrogen produced from wind, solar and batteries. I also
think they're going to power you know, these data centers,
(03:24):
AI platforms and electrify the entire state with you know,
evs and home heating and and listen, the math just
doesn't work. It and math is math. I don't care
if you want to go two plus two equals four,
but the math, the math just does not work. One
(03:47):
of two things will happen. Will be on an energy
starvation diet, meaning you're not going to always have power
when you need it, or the state's gonna be bankrupt
trying to trying to do all of this because and
based on the load growth that we were looking at
(04:09):
the load in twenty twenty three. Commissioned of paper in
twenty twenty three or twenty twenty two, and it was
released in twenty twenty three. And we looked at the
load growth and that was before AI these data plan
you know, all of the data centers and AI platforms,
and we looked at but we looked at what Polus's
(04:32):
We looked at what his goal was, which was the
entire electrification of the state. And at that point, you know,
you'd need a peak load right now is about twenty
thousand megawatts. It doesn't mean a lot other than to
say this that to accommodate peak load, including evs and
(04:53):
home heating, we will have to build out ten times
that about in when solar and batteries. And the cost
you're looking at almost seven hundred billions with a b
billion dollars in costs. Now, Polus has in the past said, oh,
(05:17):
you know, it's not going to cost that much. We
did our first study in twenty seventeen, I think it
was or maybe twenty eight. I can't you know, date's
all run together at my age. But anyway, with the
first one we came up with he said, and I
think our price tech was forty five billion with a
B and we said you could do it cheaper if
(05:38):
you buy energy credits, you know, which is sort of
like indulgences to Poluke. And he said, no, it won't
be I don't know how much it'll cost, but it
won't be that expensive. And so we did it again
and came up with another figure that was in the
hundreds of billions of dollars, and they sort of, you
(05:59):
know it, mocked it, and here we are. We did
a third one, and we also showed that you could
do it. If you want to totally decarbonize, you could
do it for cheaper with nuclear. It's still going to
be intensive, but it's just going to cost far less
than the wind and solar model, the couple of things.
And of course everybody's like, no, that's not true. Nobody
(06:22):
has ever given us a cost.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Well, and that's the part amy that I always find
so comical. And that's why I joke when I say
the governor responded by saying nah, because that's all he's
responded as saying, like, no, your numbers are wrong, Well,
then give us your numbers.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Your numbers are wrong. It's like this circular kind.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Of thing you know, I went down a rock, give
us a total system costs and that's the problem.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Well, here's the thing.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
We already have nations that have done this, right. We've
got Germany because I went down this rabbit hole like
a month ago and I was like, okay, where are
Germany's energy prices?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Well, they're the highest in the EU.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
They also rely most on wind and solar, but in
Germany it's gloomy all winter long, so they don't get
soler and when the wind stops blowing, they have to
buy natural gas or they buy power from surrounding states.
But their energy prices are are literally destroying their their
industrial production.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
It's it's it's.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Driving people out of Germany to take their production elsewhere.
We already know how this song ends, you know, So
why do we even have to have fake numbers coming
from the government. The first place we can just say, look,
they're already doing this.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
It does it doesn't end. Well, nobody has done this successfully.
No one, no state, no state, No one's done this successfully.
They won't provide you a full system cost because they
know that you will absolutely say no. And to to
your point about the de industrialization, that's why the important
(07:52):
thing is we're it will be the economic ruin of
the state. And that doesn't just mean the state not
being able to afford it. You're talking about the complete
the industrialization.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Right. Well, we went through this one.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I've kind of lived and I know, let me know
when you have to go, I'm gonna keep you as
long as I can. In Kentucky, there was a big
scuttle butt about aluminum plants closing, and at the same
moment that we're trying to bring the industry back. The
reason what one of these aluminum plants was closing was because.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Of the power usage.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Right it just become unsustainable for variety of reasons. But
that was the first time I really thought about how
those things are connected.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
And right now in the.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
United States, I just checked and this number may not
be right right at this second, but power here is
about sixteen cent per kilowatt hour in the United States
average from what I just saw.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
In Germany it's thirty nine. So we're talking about, you know,
almost triple.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So when we're talking about being competitive, this is incredibly important.
And Utah is right next door, and you've got you know,
Nebraska right next door, and they're competing for the same
business we're competing for.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Right, So why someone going to come to Colorado when
they know that their their costs, especially tech.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Is going to come here and then all of a
sudden their AI farm you know, uh, server farm is
going to cost them just you know, through the route,
because power costs so much. I just how do they
not see this?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Amy? It's so clear to me.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Clear to you, and clear to a whole bunch of
other people, including our surrounding states, who are sort of like, Okay,
Colorado wants to go off a cliff. Yeah, just let it,
because I tell my friends on the western slope, just
throw a throw a giant extension cord across the state
line if you're out of power. But no, seriously, you
(09:39):
had a downtown Denver developer, developer in downtown Denver who
is just trying to build apartments and like at first
in Broadway or something. I mean, we're talking about downtown Denver.
And he said, beside, besides financing, which is always kind
of an issue, right, he said, his other number one
concern is is reliable power. Now you're not talking about
(10:03):
downtown Aleppo or Mogadishu, talking about downtown Denver. And you
have other developers saying that these some of these regulations,
these force you know, these building codes, that it's they
can't do business down there.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Well, our real estate, some of our commercial real estate
is absolutely collapsed because people are looking at the cost
to retrofit these buildings and they can't pay twenty five
million for a building and then spend fifty million to
retrofit it. I mean, they're destroying the market for older
office buildings in Denver.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, you are. I mean all of that, all of
that is true. And to the point, why don't they
see it? Boy, that's the question I've been asking myself
for the last fifteen years in this state. How do
they not see what they're doing? Actually the governor Polish,
(11:02):
for sure, should take a lion's share of the blame
on this. But we've had state legislatures that have you know,
codified all of these crazy ideas by saying things like, oh,
what's not to like win in solar are are free
and it'll create jobs, as if it's some kind of panacea,
(11:27):
it's going to solve all of our problems. You know
what else. The other thing is those very lawmakers that
did that initially back you know we're talking like during
the Ritter administration, they're all gone. All of those people
are gone, and they will be gone when all proverbial
you know what hits the fan and folks don't have power.
(11:47):
And that's why I think the state knows it. That's
why they're giving away medicaid or they're giving away giant
batteries to medicaid patients who have life staining equipment.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
So Amy, let me ask you about batteries for a second,
because I know you know more about them than I do.
What is our actual battery potential right now? Can we
power a city the size of Denver for any length
of time on battery power?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Currently?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
No? No, no, no, we don't have No, you can't.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And how big?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
What those batteries have to be gigantic? And the other
thing is they have to be in some kind of
climate controlled facility. I mean, the whole thing's almost comical.
And how do you have the climate controlled?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I was going to ask that, but then I thought
maybe my IQ would drop if I asked that question.
I heard the answer because I have a feeling I
know what it is.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry about that. But all of this
is is is comical almost if we weren't actually doing it,
and they are in search of this net zero utopia
and putting putting the emissions above people. I think Chris
(13:07):
Wright said it best, and he called net zero this
goal that the Colorado legislature and the governor, and of
course you have the PUC by the way, the PUC.
We can all be angry at the PUC, but their
hands are tied. They have to do what the legislature
tells them to do. So they're they're they're going after
(13:30):
this goal that Chris Right, you know, a Secretary of Energy, said,
is sinister. It is because it puts emissions and a
political agenda above human thriving. It is. It is just
it's it's downright evil for.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Political posturing purposes. That that's the thing. All it is
is about political posturing. I want to ask you one
more question before you have to go back to your
regulatory boot camp. I can't even believe that's a thing,
but I'm going to keep saying it. I'm just shocked
by this. Please ask your guest, and I'm talking to
Amy Oliver Cook from.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
The Independence Institute.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
You can watch your show power GAB on IV's YouTube channel.
This one says, please ask your guest to comment on
the failure of the Spanish electric grid last week, which
took out Spain, Portugal, and parts of southern France as well.
From what I understand, the problem with that is that
when you have a renewable grid, when it all shuts
down and you have to start it from zero, it
(14:27):
takes a really long time.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Is that accurate?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, okay, yes to some extent, yes, yeah, but it's
not the whole thing. So we actually did an entire
power gap on this. So I would encourage people to
go look, just watch that. Two people first murdered than
Jake and I would could ever be but well, at
least me Jake first. But we had two guys on
(14:52):
there talking about it, and there are a couple of
things with that. The problem is something called a nurse.
The grid went down and there was nothing that, there
was nothing rotating. You need some kind of movement, some
kind of energy to get started, and they just didn't.
(15:15):
They didn't have it. And actually I'm going to give
Spain a lot of credit for this. They actually came
back online far faster than anyone would have thought that
they would have because they relied on get this Morocco.
So Morocco actually saved them, and my apologies, I've got
(15:39):
another call. Somebody else that doesn't know I'm in regulatory
boot camp keeps trying to beat me.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
But I'll leave you with this one last question to
that point. When everybody goes green and renewable, who are
we going to buy our energy from it when we
need it?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
When Morocco's green, it can't.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Well, you can't. And so that's the other thing. Colorado
also thinks the way it's going to solve its problem
is it's going to import power when it needs it.
The problem with that is every other state also thinks
it's going to import power. And I was in North
Carolina and in twenty twenty two Christmas Eve twenty twenty two,
(16:17):
they also thought they were importing power. But when you
have a regional weather event, there is no power available.
So even though you have a power purchase agreement and
somebody has agreed to sell power to you, if they
have customers that need it, guess what, Yep, you're not
(16:37):
getting it. So this idea that we're going to rely
on somebody else to get power, I mean, think about
how crazy that is If it's a regional weather event.
If you think Wyoming or Utah or anybody else is
going to sell us power I've got you know, some
Swampland in Arizona for you too, Amy.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oliver Cook. I watch Power Gap.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
It's very good, and you guys keep it nice and short, right,
so people if they if they are trying to learn,
it's a very it's half an hour at most. I
actually listened to it in my car, which frustrates me
when you show a graph. So try and keep that
to a minimum if you could. Yeah, if you could
just be.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Thinking about describing.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
There you go, just like Mandy's in her car right now.
How do I make this work? Thank you so much
for the time today, Amy, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
All right. I talked to you later
Please as punch to have one of the smarty pantss
from the Independence Institute. She's Amy Oliver Cook, and she
and Jake Fogelman do a very nerdy but also entertaining
show on the Independence Institute's YouTube channel called power Gab,
which is a clever play power Grab, power Gab Get
it Only they just talk about energy stuff and it's very,
(00:22):
very interesting. And Amy's on the show now to talk
about a column she just wrote about how our governor's
net zero dreams are going to not only make us
a lot poorer, they are also going to have us
wondering if the lights will come on when we need
them to.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Amy, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Hey, thanks Mandy. I appreciate you and appreciate the kind
words about Power Gab. Yeah, it is quite nerdy. I
haven't often heard it called entertaining, but I guess you know,
even people who don't think they're funny occasionally can be funny.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Sometimes a blind squirrel finds a nut. Amy, But I
know you're very funny. Wait, we have to get a
little piece of business out of the way really quickly.
You are in a regulatory boot camp. There are easier
ways to lose weight. Amy, Okay, there's got to be
what is that?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
This just goes to show you why I do something
called power gab. This is actually eight to five Monday
through Friday this week. It is the basics of utility
and electricity regulation. Wow, it's the stuff that dec commissioners
look at. Right And in fact, in just a moment,
(01:31):
we'll be talking about revenue requirements. Oh yeah, if you
know how to party.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I do.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I do. I know how to have a great time.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
You're free to join me. No, I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
This is why the independence ins to do is so necessary.
So Amy can go to regulatory boot camp and the
rest of us don't have to.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Let's talk about your columns exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, Colorado's forced march to energy uncertainty. This is almost
a victor relap in a way, because you guys predicted
what is now happening in terms of what this green
transition is going to cost a few years ago. But
of course the governor said na uh yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
And actually I should say this. I really want to
be wrong, right, like there is no pleasure in being
right in any of this. First time I wrote about
increased prices and decrease reliability was in December I think
it was December twenty ten, and oh no, that's not
(02:37):
going to happen. And you know, and the thing is
you could just see where all of this was going,
and that once you can see it, then you can't
unsee it. And yeah, we are. The governor thinks we
are going to power this state with wind, boler plus
(02:59):
battery and and then and then I love this, back
it up with quote clean unquote hydrogen. What that means
is hydrogen produced from wind, solar and batteries. I also
think they're going to power you know, these data centers,
(03:24):
AI platforms and electrify the entire state with you know,
evs and home heating and and listen, the math just
doesn't work. It and math is math. I don't care
if you want to go two plus two equals four,
but the math, the math just does not work. One
(03:47):
of two things will happen. Will be on an energy
starvation diet, meaning you're not going to always have power
when you need it, or the state's gonna be bankrupt
trying to trying to do all of this because and
based on the load growth that we were looking at
(04:09):
the load in twenty twenty three. Commissioned of paper in
twenty twenty three or twenty twenty two, and it was
released in twenty twenty three. And we looked at the
load growth and that was before AI these data plan
you know, all of the data centers and AI platforms,
and we looked at but we looked at what Polus's
(04:32):
We looked at what his goal was, which was the
entire electrification of the state. And at that point, you know,
you'd need a peak load right now is about twenty
thousand megawatts. It doesn't mean a lot other than to
say this that to accommodate peak load, including evs and
(04:53):
home heating, we will have to build out ten times
that about in when solar and batteries. And the cost
you're looking at almost seven hundred billions with a b
billion dollars in costs. Now, Polus has in the past said, oh,
(05:17):
you know, it's not going to cost that much. We
did our first study in twenty seventeen, I think it
was or maybe twenty eight. I can't you know, date's
all run together at my age. But anyway, with the
first one we came up with he said, and I
think our price tech was forty five billion with a
B and we said you could do it cheaper if
(05:38):
you buy energy credits, you know, which is sort of
like indulgences to Poluke. And he said, no, it won't
be I don't know how much it'll cost, but it
won't be that expensive. And so we did it again
and came up with another figure that was in the
hundreds of billions of dollars, and they sort of, you
(05:59):
know it, mocked it, and here we are. We did
a third one, and we also showed that you could
do it. If you want to totally decarbonize, you could
do it for cheaper with nuclear. It's still going to
be intensive, but it's just going to cost far less
than the wind and solar model, the couple of things.
And of course everybody's like, no, that's not true. Nobody
(06:22):
has ever given us a cost.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Well, and that's the part amy that I always find
so comical. And that's why I joke when I say
the governor responded by saying nah, because that's all he's
responded as saying, like, no, your numbers are wrong, Well,
then give us your numbers.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Your numbers are wrong. It's like this circular kind.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Of thing you know, I went down a rock, give
us a total system costs and that's the problem.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Well, here's the thing.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
We already have nations that have done this, right. We've
got Germany because I went down this rabbit hole like
a month ago and I was like, okay, where are
Germany's energy prices?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Well, they're the highest in the EU.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
They also rely most on wind and solar, but in
Germany it's gloomy all winter long, so they don't get
soler and when the wind stops blowing, they have to
buy natural gas or they buy power from surrounding states.
But their energy prices are are literally destroying their their
industrial production.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
It's it's it's.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Driving people out of Germany to take their production elsewhere.
We already know how this song ends, you know, So
why do we even have to have fake numbers coming
from the government. The first place we can just say, look,
they're already doing this.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
It does it doesn't end. Well, nobody has done this successfully.
No one, no state, no state, No one's done this successfully.
They won't provide you a full system cost because they
know that you will absolutely say no. And to to
your point about the de industrialization, that's why the important
(07:52):
thing is we're it will be the economic ruin of
the state. And that doesn't just mean the state not
being able to afford it. You're talking about the complete
the industrialization.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Right. Well, we went through this one.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I've kind of lived and I know, let me know
when you have to go, I'm gonna keep you as
long as I can. In Kentucky, there was a big
scuttle butt about aluminum plants closing, and at the same
moment that we're trying to bring the industry back. The
reason what one of these aluminum plants was closing was because.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Of the power usage.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Right it just become unsustainable for variety of reasons. But
that was the first time I really thought about how
those things are connected.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
And right now in the.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
United States, I just checked and this number may not
be right right at this second, but power here is
about sixteen cent per kilowatt hour in the United States
average from what I just saw.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
In Germany it's thirty nine. So we're talking about, you know,
almost triple.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So when we're talking about being competitive, this is incredibly important.
And Utah is right next door, and you've got you know,
Nebraska right next door, and they're competing for the same
business we're competing for.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Right, So why someone going to come to Colorado when
they know that their their costs, especially tech.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Is going to come here and then all of a
sudden their AI farm you know, uh, server farm is
going to cost them just you know, through the route,
because power costs so much. I just how do they
not see this?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Amy? It's so clear to me.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Clear to you, and clear to a whole bunch of
other people, including our surrounding states, who are sort of like, Okay,
Colorado wants to go off a cliff. Yeah, just let it,
because I tell my friends on the western slope, just
throw a throw a giant extension cord across the state
line if you're out of power. But no, seriously, you
(09:39):
had a downtown Denver developer, developer in downtown Denver who
is just trying to build apartments and like at first
in Broadway or something. I mean, we're talking about downtown Denver.
And he said, beside, besides financing, which is always kind
of an issue, right, he said, his other number one
concern is is reliable power. Now you're not talking about
(10:03):
downtown Aleppo or Mogadishu, talking about downtown Denver. And you
have other developers saying that these some of these regulations,
these force you know, these building codes, that it's they
can't do business down there.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Well, our real estate, some of our commercial real estate
is absolutely collapsed because people are looking at the cost
to retrofit these buildings and they can't pay twenty five
million for a building and then spend fifty million to
retrofit it. I mean, they're destroying the market for older
office buildings in Denver.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, you are. I mean all of that, all of
that is true. And to the point, why don't they
see it? Boy, that's the question I've been asking myself
for the last fifteen years in this state. How do
they not see what they're doing? Actually the governor Polish,
(11:02):
for sure, should take a lion's share of the blame
on this. But we've had state legislatures that have you know,
codified all of these crazy ideas by saying things like, oh,
what's not to like win in solar are are free
and it'll create jobs, as if it's some kind of panacea,
(11:27):
it's going to solve all of our problems. You know
what else. The other thing is those very lawmakers that
did that initially back you know we're talking like during
the Ritter administration, they're all gone. All of those people
are gone, and they will be gone when all proverbial
you know what hits the fan and folks don't have power.
(11:47):
And that's why I think the state knows it. That's
why they're giving away medicaid or they're giving away giant
batteries to medicaid patients who have life staining equipment.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
So Amy, let me ask you about batteries for a second,
because I know you know more about them than I do.
What is our actual battery potential right now? Can we
power a city the size of Denver for any length
of time on battery power?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Currently?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
No? No, no, no, we don't have No, you can't.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And how big?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
What those batteries have to be gigantic? And the other
thing is they have to be in some kind of
climate controlled facility. I mean, the whole thing's almost comical.
And how do you have the climate controlled?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I was going to ask that, but then I thought
maybe my IQ would drop if I asked that question.
I heard the answer because I have a feeling I
know what it is.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry about that. But all of this
is is is comical almost if we weren't actually doing it,
and they are in search of this net zero utopia
and putting putting the emissions above people. I think Chris
(13:07):
Wright said it best, and he called net zero this
goal that the Colorado legislature and the governor, and of
course you have the PUC by the way, the PUC.
We can all be angry at the PUC, but their
hands are tied. They have to do what the legislature
tells them to do. So they're they're they're going after
(13:30):
this goal that Chris Right, you know, a Secretary of Energy, said,
is sinister. It is because it puts emissions and a
political agenda above human thriving. It is. It is just
it's it's downright evil for.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Political posturing purposes. That that's the thing. All it is
is about political posturing. I want to ask you one
more question before you have to go back to your
regulatory boot camp. I can't even believe that's a thing,
but I'm going to keep saying it. I'm just shocked
by this. Please ask your guest, and I'm talking to
Amy Oliver Cook from.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
The Independence Institute.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
You can watch your show power GAB on IV's YouTube channel.
This one says, please ask your guest to comment on
the failure of the Spanish electric grid last week, which
took out Spain, Portugal, and parts of southern France as well.
From what I understand, the problem with that is that
when you have a renewable grid, when it all shuts
down and you have to start it from zero, it
(14:27):
takes a really long time.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Is that accurate?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, okay, yes to some extent, yes, yeah, but it's
not the whole thing. So we actually did an entire
power gap on this. So I would encourage people to
go look, just watch that. Two people first murdered than
Jake and I would could ever be but well, at
least me Jake first. But we had two guys on
(14:52):
there talking about it, and there are a couple of
things with that. The problem is something called a nurse.
The grid went down and there was nothing that, there
was nothing rotating. You need some kind of movement, some
kind of energy to get started, and they just didn't.
(15:15):
They didn't have it. And actually I'm going to give
Spain a lot of credit for this. They actually came
back online far faster than anyone would have thought that
they would have because they relied on get this Morocco.
So Morocco actually saved them, and my apologies, I've got
(15:39):
another call. Somebody else that doesn't know I'm in regulatory
boot camp keeps trying to beat me.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
But I'll leave you with this one last question to
that point. When everybody goes green and renewable, who are
we going to buy our energy from it when we
need it?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
When Morocco's green, it can't.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Well, you can't. And so that's the other thing. Colorado
also thinks the way it's going to solve its problem
is it's going to import power when it needs it.
The problem with that is every other state also thinks
it's going to import power. And I was in North
Carolina and in twenty twenty two Christmas Eve twenty twenty two,
(16:17):
they also thought they were importing power. But when you
have a regional weather event, there is no power available.
So even though you have a power purchase agreement and
somebody has agreed to sell power to you, if they
have customers that need it, guess what, Yep, you're not
(16:37):
getting it. So this idea that we're going to rely
on somebody else to get power, I mean, think about
how crazy that is If it's a regional weather event.
If you think Wyoming or Utah or anybody else is
going to sell us power I've got you know, some
Swampland in Arizona for you too, Amy.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oliver Cook. I watch Power Gap.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
It's very good, and you guys keep it nice and short, right,
so people if they if they are trying to learn,
it's a very it's half an hour at most. I
actually listened to it in my car, which frustrates me
when you show a graph. So try and keep that
to a minimum if you could. Yeah, if you could
just be.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Thinking about describing.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
There you go, just like Mandy's in her car right now.
How do I make this work? Thank you so much
for the time today, Amy, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
All right. I talked to you later
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