Godzilla 70th Anniversary Retrospective (Fanbase Feature Crossover)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hello, and welcome to Geek History Lesson. I am Ashley
Victoria Robinson, a comic book writer from Canada, and I'm
going to say welcome to your mind University because you
have stumbled onto the podcast where we take one character
construct or Giant Kaiju that I love very very much
and I'm completely obsessed with. I need you everything you
need to know about them in about an hour.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Now.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
You may be listening to this today and say this
isn't the normal intro, and that is so true. Now
I'm going to give you a little impression of what
we're going to be talking about on the episode today.
That was my best Godzilla so please feel free to
take that and make it your text ring tones at
any time. If you are a diet in the Wall

(00:54):
GHL listener, you may be saying to yourself, Ashley, you've
done episodes on Godzilla before, including a super great one
with Eric Burnham, who wrote Godzilla comic books.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
That is so true.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
But today I'm bringing you some deeper Godzilla discourse. What
you are about to hear is a collaboration between Geek
History Lesson and fan Base Weekly and incredible podcast made
by the lovely folks Over at fan Base Press, they
do a fan Base feature where they highlight important films
that have anniversaries, milestones, and cultural significance in our Geekee sphere.

(01:31):
Last year, I was so honored to be asked by
Bryant Dylan to join them to discuss Godzilla, the og
Godzilla film on its seventieth anniversary. If you listen to
our previous episode on Godzilla, you know that I defended
the honor of this feature film to Jason Edman and
Eric Burnham, and I was so thrilled to come back
and speak more. I am joined in this incredible discourse hosted,

(01:52):
like I said, by Bryant Dylan, who is the president
of fan Base Press and co host a fan Base Weekly,
but also by Jack Phoenix Rurian and a writer, and
by matthe you know, the lead collection and knowledge management
librarian at Harvard Medical School. Yeah, by people way smarter
than me to talk about our favorite baby Kaiju. So

(02:15):
I am so grateful to the fine folks over at
fan Base Weekly for lending us this audio. Please check
them out and support everything that they are doing. iSER
award winning creators over there. Let's get ready, Let's get monstrous.
Take it away past Ashley.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Hi, this is Mark Haines from American Mythologies, Stargate Universe
and Stargate Atlantis Comic Books, and you are entering the
fan Base.

Speaker 4 (02:45):
Hello listeners, and welcome to a new episode of the
fan Base Weekly Podcast. This is a special edition of
the show as we are conducting a panel discussion on
the seventieth anniversary of the feature film Godzilla. Now, before
I get to my panelists for this episode, I do
want to note that all episodes of the fan Base
Weekly Podcast this month are sponsored by biolumin Press. We're

(03:08):
honored to have biolumin Press as a sponsor and look
forward to sharing details about that publisher with you later
in the episode. But let me introduce myself. I'm Brian Dylan.
I'm president of fan Base Press and co host of
the fan Base Weekly Podcast, as well as the writer
behind several projects, including our Horo graphic novels Something Animal
and Identity Thief. And I will also serve as your

(03:30):
moderator for this discussion. So who's joining me? I am
joined by two fantastic returning guests.

Speaker 5 (03:37):
First up, we have Ashley V. Robinson.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
She's a three time ringo nominated comic book writer whose
credits include Jupiter Jet and Aurora and the Eagle, and
Ashley is also co host of the Geek History Lesson podcast. Ashley,
always great to have you on the show. Thank you
for coming back.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
So excited to live my giant monster fantasy today.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
This is going to be so much fun. Thank you
for having me back.

Speaker 4 (04:01):
Of course, eager to dive into discussion. We're also joined
by Matthew no He's the lead collection and Knowledge Management
librarian at Harvard Medical School and a part time instructor
in library science at the University of Kentucky. Matthews well
known for mixing comics and health science librarianship and is
an author slash, co author of several book chapters, a

(04:22):
scoping review on graphic Medicine, and he's a regular contributor
to Diamond, Bookshelf and Bookless Matthew is also the one
who wrote the foreword for fan Base Presses Eisner nominated
Graphic Medicine superhero comic Ripple Effects. Matthew always good to
talk with you, Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 6 (04:39):
Yeah, always happy to be here and always feel awkward
to have my obnoxiously long job title for now it's.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
All very well learned, so we're happy to do it
all right, So if you've been waiting seventy years, here's
your spoiler awarding. You know it surprisingly enough, and we'll
get into this. This was my first time actually watching
the original guys. I have read many synopsises, but I
don't think I've ever sat down with the film. So
maybe there are some of you out there like myself.

(05:06):
If you're worried about spoilers, go ahead watch the film.
It's on Max right now, and you can come back
and enjoy this podcast afterwards for those who are continuing on.
Godzilla of Course is a nineteen fifty four Japanese kaiju
film directed and co written by Shiro Honda. It's produced
and distributed by Toho and it is the first film

(05:27):
in the Godzilla franchise.

Speaker 5 (05:29):
Of course now.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
In the film, underwater hydrogen bomb testing awakens a fire
breathing monster from it's centuries long sleep, and it soon
starts to terrorize Japan. Japan's authorities deal with the sudden
appearance of the giant monster, whose attacks trigger fears of
nuclear holocaust in a post war Japan.

Speaker 7 (05:48):
Now.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
The film was met with mixed reviews upon release, but
was a box office success, winning the Japanese Movie Associate
Association Award for Best Special Effects then and in nineteen
fifty six, a heavily re edited Americanized version retitled Godzilla,
King of the Monsters was released in the United States.

(06:10):
The film of corresponded a multi media franchise that was
recognized by the Guinness World Records as the longest running
film franchise in history, and the character Godzilla has become
an international pop culture icon. The film received reappraisal in
later years and has since been regarded as one of
the best monster films ever made. Just diving a little

(06:32):
bit more into that. One thing that I found interesting
is that prior to the release of the film, skeptics
predicted the film would flop, and at the time of
the film's release, Japanese critics accused the film of exploiting
the widespread devastation that the country had suffered in World
War Two, as well as the Digo Fukiro Maru incident,
which occurred a few minutes before filming began, or a

(06:55):
few months rather before filming began. Definitely, we'll dive a
little bit into that later in the episode. There are
others who said that depicting a fire breathing organism was strange,
but Honda believed that the Japanese critics began to change
their minds after good reviews of the film were received

(07:15):
in the United States. He said, quote the first film's
critics to appreciate godzill were those in the US when
Godzilla was released as Godzilla, King of the Monsters in
nineteen fifty six. The critics said such things as for
the start, this film frankly depicts the horrors of the
atomic bomb, and by these evaluations, the assessment began to
impact critics in Japan and has changed their opinions over

(07:37):
the years end quote. As he noted, as time went on,
the film gained more respect in its home country, and
that includes Akira Kirosawa even listing in as one of
his one hundred favorite films. Just two points of miscellaneous
points of interest that I wanted to share before we
dive into our discussion. This film actually pioneered a form

(07:58):
of special effects called supman. I'm sure we were all
familiar with because of the Godzilla movie Godzilla movies, but
this is when a stun performer wearing a suit interacts
with miniatures on set as opposed to stop go animation,
and this Godzilla suit that was produced for this film
was so heavy that the performer was only able to

(08:20):
act for three minutes before he would literally pass out
from heat and exhaustion. So I'm sure that was a
fun shooting schedule there. But let's let's dive in. I
would love to start, obviously with overall reactions to revisiting
this film, but one thing I also love to do,
especially with these long existing iconic characters, is let's dive

(08:43):
into each individual's personal relationship. What's your personal history with
godzill When did he come into your life? What are
your what are your shared relationships with them? Actually, why
don't you start us off?

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Well, we're all familiar with the Kaiju dating app of
and I got on that right as it was. I
couldn't come up with a clever name for it in
the allotted time.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
I'm sorry for not famous bloody as.

Speaker 8 (09:06):
I wanted to speak.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
You know, I feel like if you were born after
maybe nineteen eighty, no matter where you were born, excuse me,
Godzilla is kind of like comic book heroes in that
I mean, I knew who Godzilla was long like in
that Godzilla was a giant monster, big dinosaur guy, long long,

(09:30):
long before I ever watched a Godzilla movie. The first
Godzilla movie that I remember coming out was the nineteen
ninety nine classic Godzilla remake, where you are no longer
allowed to call that creature Godzilla. He is simply referred
to as Zilla, and that is slaughtered by the Japanese
counterparts in I Believe Final Wars. But it wasn't until

(09:52):
I got into university and was in my film snob
Era that I was like, well, I guess I'm going
to watch at least the original Godzilla and I thought
it was amazing.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
We'll get into it.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
I think it has so much to say about Japan
culturally and why Americans shouldn't make Godzilla movies. And I
then went down the rabbit hole of watching every single
other Godzilla movie. I've seen, all the mathra movies, Like,
I love a big dumb monster movie, and a big
dumb monster movie that actually every once in a while

(10:30):
has something to say in a.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Point of view. It truly can't love something more.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
The fact that Pluto TV has a Godzilla channel that
is everything up and till all the Japanese offerings up
until shin Godzilla. I can put that on at any time.
I can tell you which movie it is, which one
the banana guys are in. This is just like a
secret fave of mine. So Godzilla's bit an important part
of my life in terms of like my cultural landscape

(10:57):
for a long time and ages and ages ago, maybe
maybe eight or ten years ago, I spent like a
year on a campaign pitching bloody disgusting to let me
write an article called why Mathra is a feminist icon?
And they did not like me and blocked my email address.

Speaker 5 (11:12):
Wow, I think that would be a fascinating article.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
I think so too.

Speaker 6 (11:16):
I'd love to read that.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah, maybe we'll make her happen somedays. So that's yeah.
I think I've embarrassed myself enough about my Japanese boyfriend
and I will throw it over to Matthew.

Speaker 5 (11:28):
Well, well, before we go to Matthew, let me ask
you one other question.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
Is there is there anything that particularly stuck out to
you upon revisiting it this round?

Speaker 5 (11:37):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yes, you know what stuck out to me this time,
because this is maybe the first time I've had to
watch this movie with the critical eye is actually how
good the acting is, because especially with American adaptations, I'm
always like, I don't care about these people, Let's just
stuff on them and with our lives. And I think

(11:58):
the original Godzilla couple others as well. The acting is
so good, even though it is very stylized nineteen fifty
style acting, which is super different than than what we know.
But it's the only one where I actually know most
of the characters' names and care about what they are

(12:19):
doing and their relative safety, which is quite something. It's
also the other thing is I recently revisited the James
Bond feature Yuli Lip Twice, which shot on the Toho
Studio sets and borrowed.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
A bunch of the save actors. I was like, oh,
it's that guy.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
So if there's anyone else in the Godzilla James Bond
crossover Ben Diagram, there are some fun Easter.

Speaker 5 (12:40):
Eggs that's so interesting.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
As I mentioned before I handed over to Mathew, I'll
share I did not. I think this is the first
time I've seen this film, but one thing that we
had at my local library as a kid is very
much like you, Ashley. I knew Godzilla had the same
way I had knowledge of him without having seen his films,
But there was also this amazing I want to say

(13:04):
it was like a universal Monsters kind of focused book
series at my local library, and like they had books
that would cover like wolf Man in Dracula, and they
had a Godzilla one, and I remember reading the entire
plot and knowing all these characters and knowing that there
was this oxygen destroyer that they got rid of Godzilla with,
and so the whole story has existed in my head

(13:27):
to some degree, and to finally see it on screen
was really really interesting. Matthew, what's your relationship with Godzilla
and when did you come to this film?

Speaker 9 (13:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (13:40):
So, I mean I guess similar like you know, you
always kind of grew up knowing Godzilla was a thing
with the superhero kind of energy.

Speaker 6 (13:49):
I'll be honest, My first Godzilla movie is something that
should never be watched by anyone.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
The ninety eight Matthew brought her at Godzilla is my
first Godzilla movie because I was a child of I
was born in nineteen eighty nine, so you know, of
course that's the first.

Speaker 6 (14:05):
Thing I'm going to see.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
I thought I might have a nostalgic soft spot for it.
But I tried to rewatch it when I was home
sick a couple of years ago, and it's not a
rewatchable bad. It's just bad, at least for me. And
then I kind of, you know, as Ashley mentioned, we
all kind of go through this like I'm a film
snob phase, I think.

Speaker 6 (14:28):
So I've got a.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Pretty healthy Criterion collection at home now and that that
nice Godzilla release is one of them, and so I've
been working my way through those and watching the originals.
And this is actually the second or third time I've
watched this one, but it's the first time i've watched
it since Minus one came out, and you know, you

(14:54):
could those two they're basically hitting the same theme points.
It's just it's almost as if Minus one is the
updated version of the original, right, and that so that
was on my mind as I was watching this. I
actually think this the o G seventy years later holds
up pretty well.

Speaker 9 (15:13):
You know.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
You you you have human story happening here and Godzilla
it's not like monsters just fighting each other, which you know,
I love a good monster movie, but in this case,
it's the monster is actually representative of you know, this
this force that's larger than.

Speaker 6 (15:31):
Humanity and that we have to learn to contend with.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
And what was really holding up and standing out to
me on the rewatches my wife was watching it with me,
is the score was really drawing this in and we
couldn't like it was like the the symphonics were carrying
us along the entire way through the film in a
way that we often you know, it's it's as if
the soundtrack is less valued a lot of the time

(15:56):
now and then this one it was like, no, it
was key and it hit every moment.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
I read that the composer composer thought that this was
his best work of his career was this score, and
it definitely has an impact for sure. It's interesting because
I feel like the reason this works so well is
it's simplistic, straightforward, and they take it. They tell everyone

(16:23):
takes it serious and doing research on this. It was
really interesting to see that the director of Honda, he
even had a moment, I guess when he started the
film where he addressed everyone and was like, listen, we're
doing this, We're committing to it. If you're not committed
one hundred percent, you can leave now, like we will
stay here.

Speaker 5 (16:43):
And make this film.

Speaker 4 (16:45):
But it seems like that it was a real k
key that there was no as much as it seems
like there was a anticipation of.

Speaker 5 (16:51):
It being silly or I don't know, just just a.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
Childish exercise, it was approached with such seriousness and tapped
into things that were present within the culture and it.

Speaker 5 (17:06):
Works because of that.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
And I guess the interesting thing I would ask both
of you based on that is, as we noted, there
are many, many, many Godzilla movies at this point, and
they have been able to embrace a goofiness at time
and a fun at time. There's no goofiness or fun
in this film, and it's interesting to me that the
franchise is so malleable. Do you think that that is something?

(17:32):
I guess what I would ask is, what do you
think allows the franchise to be that flexible? And do
you think there's a key to success long term in
the fact that they've been able to balance that to
some degree that they can return to you know, goofy
over the top, you know, monster fights, but also come
back to something like you know, minus zero and tap

(17:54):
into what you originally made the first film of success.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Do you think Ashley, I think you nailed it in
that it's because the first movie does take itself very seriously,
and I think even as fans of genre, we are
more inclined to be like, oh, well, it's just to
this or it's just to that. And then when something
comes up like this original film or like Godzilla minus

(18:22):
one and it is actually high drama, I think we're
like take it of act in a weird way because
we're so used to settling for less, like we've obviously
maligned than Matthew Brodert Godzilla movie. But also even in
the world of superheroes, right like we're used to when
meteor Man, which no shade to Meet your Man, great film,
but when that was the best we had, when something

(18:43):
comes out this more serious, it feels almost surprising. And
I think with the with this film in particular, I
this might be I don't mean this to be rude,
but I wonder if it's almost accidental because all the
things that we are seeing reflected through the long lens
of history would have been present for people who were

(19:03):
making this, who had lived through all of these tremendous
tragedies at the hands of our colonizer ancestors, So I
wonder if it's because the drama was inherent from the beginning,
so it was easier to find the silliness or the
more lightheartedness to the point of camp and then come

(19:25):
all the way back. I also think a huge reason
why they can do this with Godzilla as a franchise
is because of the approach by Toho and the producers.
Because my understanding, because this whole conversation kind of came
out around minus one, was that when you pitch a
Godzilla movie, it's like continuity.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
We don't know her, we don't really care.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Do you have a pitch in a tone and a style,
we would absolutely love to see it, which is a
freedom creatively that I think we all know by this point.
A Warner Brothers or a Disney doesn't necessarily forward or creators.
So when you allow people to simply I'm trying to
think of a nicer metaphor than.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Have enough rope to hang themselves because that's so ugly.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
But when you allow people to just try different things,
I think you get some really amazing results. And like,
let's be honest, Godzilla is not a character. Godzilla is
the backdrop around which you can mount your story and
create your characters, and I think that lack of absolute

(20:31):
dedication to canon allows for different things to come in totally.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
But it is a bit of an enigma.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
In that it can achieve this, and that it has
done this for the better part of a century, because
I think we can look at a lot of other
monster movies, action movies, genre movies that don't even come
anywhere close unfortunately.

Speaker 5 (20:53):
Matthew, what are your thoughts on this?

Speaker 6 (20:56):
Yeah, I mean I think actually kind of nailed it there.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
I was just stating here thinking about you know, I
think I just what I described Gadzilla as like a
force of nature, right, Like that that backdrop element, right,
it lends itself to you can almost put anything into
it and you're gonna get something back. So you might
approach it from a from a humorous perspective, or you
might be feeling pretty campy that day and you can

(21:20):
throw that at Godzilla and it's just gonna fling back
at you whatever absurdity you have in mind, and it
will work in a from a creative sense, it's kind
of like they've allowed the flexibility of the old else
World's kind of comic series, but without any attempts in

(21:40):
the future to like rite on it all back. Right,
They let these alternate realities, these alternate takes, this idea
that canon is silly and why.

Speaker 6 (21:49):
Do we need that.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
They let it go without any try to forcing it
all back into the can. I don't know why I'm
imagining a can, but that's.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
I can't watch.

Speaker 6 (22:02):
Godzilla.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Yeah, but right, so, uh, it lets you play with
all of that without any try to forcing it back
in in a way that most of our other genre
are franchises, don't let us do anymore. I'm I'm just
I'm constantly in dread of the way they're going to
attempt to string along superhero movies infinitely with everyone having

(22:25):
to know everything right, whereas Godzilla you can kind of
just drop someone in and they'll figure it out.

Speaker 5 (22:31):
It's very true, It's very true.

Speaker 4 (22:34):
Well, let's talk about what was the standout moment of
the film for you during this viewing, Matthew, when to
start us off, was there was there one moment that
really stood out to you this time?

Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah, the I'm always struck by the decision for Sarahsaala,
like that scene where he's deciding that you know, I've.

Speaker 6 (22:59):
Created did something terrible.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
I don't want to let it out into the world,
but the world needs it at this moment, and the
decision making I mentioned the score there. This plays out
well in that scene, the moment where he decides that no,
he's actually going to let this terrible oxygen destroyer weapon,
which is, you know, another version of an H bomb
effectively out into the world. But I'm going to make

(23:25):
sure that I go with it. No one will ever
have my research. I'm going to make sure that if
anyone attempts to recreate this, it's going to be as
difficult for them as possible, and I will have no
part in unleashing this on the wider world. And that
that's just like the Crux moment, and there's a weight
to that that they actually captured really well, and it

(23:46):
could have gone really silly, and it could have played poorly,
like a false nobility kind of thing, but they everyone
took that scene seriously, as we've mentioned, and it lands,
and then you get to it pays off at the
end where you see real grief happening in spite of
the supposed victory over Godzilla.

Speaker 6 (24:08):
And that just it lands. It lands really well.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Every time I watch it and it's just for me
the standout moment of the movie definitely.

Speaker 4 (24:17):
The ending of that film is I think a key
to it success definitely and taps into, you know, deeper
things that will definitely get into in a little bit. Ashley,
was there a scene that particularly stood out to you.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
It's it's really hard not to just be like the
train scene is so iconic, again to Matthew's point earlier,
so much so that it is aped and I would
dare even say elevated in Godzilla minus one, as it
should be with a film coming sixty plus years later,
right like you would expect it to be, to be
able to do something with some different tricks. I really

(24:53):
love sort of the first scene where everyone is sitting
around the dinner table, very explaining to the characters but
also to us the audience, like what is actually going
on and what the stakes are because this is why
credited the acting earlier. It's it is something that we've
seen a hundred times and it feels very silly, but

(25:13):
because they are playing it as deadly serious, you're right
there with them the whole time, and you really are like,
it's it's the Tyra Banks Gift like I'm rooting for you,
we were all rooting for you. And it's such a nice, quiet,
understated moment that you would never have in a modern
day film. It's very of its time as a as

(25:37):
a white person, I'm going to sue, it's also very
Japanese and that like nobody's screaming, nobody's bombastic, Like it's
just like, this is the point of fact, and this
is how we have to deal with it. And there's
a ton of empathy for Godzilla as a creature in this.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
We don't jump right.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
To what if we explode him, which I mean ultimately
is what we do, but there is consideration for like
what if we did, what if we're at fault? And
that is something that in the campier movies we sort
of lose that moral point of view, and I think
that's a huge strength of this film.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
It really really struck me this time.

Speaker 4 (26:12):
It's really it is a really interesting point and I
will I do want to get deeper into talking about
is it doctor Yamming and his kind of his philosophy
is so interesting because he maintains it throughout the film
for the most part, that that we shouldn't be trying
to kill this creature and that that just uh, I

(26:36):
don't know, it's it's such an interesting take, and you know,
I would love to dive deeper into that in a
moment and talk about what what our reaction is to that,
because it's a very Unamerican reaction to.

Speaker 5 (26:49):
A threat and not just immediately shoot everything.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
Right, not like, hey, let's destroy it. Can we have
do we have a bigger club? We have a bigger club?

Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Or dare I say, could we weaponize it? Which is
always the super weird discussion right.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
Right right, exactly exactly, Jack, welcome, digit do di do?

Speaker 1 (27:14):
So this is where in the nineteen eighties we would
introduce the second act month a standard chowally.

Speaker 5 (27:20):
I'm yes, total surprise.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
All right, Well, I we are joined by one of
our other panelists, so let me quickly introduce him. We
have librarian writer Jack Phoenix. He is the author of
a School Library Journal star reviewed book, Maximizing the Impact
of Comics in Your Library, graphic novels, manga, and more.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
He resides in the Greater Cleveland area with.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
His husband, two dogs, and two cats, where he works
as the collection develop manager for the Cuyahoga Falls Library.

Speaker 5 (27:50):
Jack so excited to have you.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
I know you're joining a little late, but thank you
so much for joining our Godzilla conversation.

Speaker 8 (27:58):
I apologize, I thought it so twelve, my mistake.

Speaker 5 (28:01):
No worries, no worries at all.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
So we're just diving into sort of our our standout
moments from the film. I was actually just going to
mention mine and I'll handle it over to you, Jack,
but they It's a very small moment, but it hit
me so hard. The moment where the mother is essentially
like comforting your children and saying like, oh, we're going

(28:28):
to see dad soon. We're going to go with Dad.
It's going to be okay. It's just such a I
don't know. I don't know if it's the times that
we live in, the horrors that we see, you know,
being inflicted on individuals all over the world in various ways,
or another subject that I want to get into.

Speaker 5 (28:46):
How how this film is.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
I think we may interpret it as Americans differently post
a global pandemic. But yeah, it was just an incredibly
impactful scene and just one of many that I think
reflect real world worse. You know that the that the
film is supposed to to be using Godzilla as a
metaphor for.

Speaker 5 (29:10):
Jack. Was there a particular scene that stood out to you?

Speaker 8 (29:14):
So it was that scene, but I came prepared because
I had a feeling that someone else would mention that scene.
So for me, though, it's the aftermath, especially when folks
are in like the the hospitals or or the makeshift
hospital and you see the horror and destruction done to

(29:36):
their bodies, you know. I mean, it's not all that
gory because it was the fifties, but you know, the
folks with with covered eyes and burns and Geiger counters
going off. That really sells home. Like the terror more
than the action, more than the than the Godzilla special effects,
more than the monster himself, Like what sets the you know,

(29:59):
what affirms the tone for me for the movie is.

Speaker 5 (30:03):
That it is is kind.

Speaker 4 (30:06):
It's so stark that scene where they they they have
these children who are just like traumatized, the point where
they're just staring off, you know, and and and the
Geiger counter specifically, I remember sitting there and going that kid,
I didn't even think about this when it comes to
God'szilla movies, I feel like it's has gotten so pushed
into the background. But the idea that the creature could

(30:29):
leave you, radiate simply by being in your presence, and
what that the horrors of that would be.

Speaker 5 (30:36):
It's really an interesting element of this film.

Speaker 8 (30:39):
Yeah, but you know, there's a a implication there that
that these quote survivors, they're not they're they're might not survive.

Speaker 6 (30:48):
Yeah, very much true.

Speaker 8 (30:49):
They're doomed.

Speaker 5 (30:50):
It's very true. It's very true.

Speaker 4 (30:53):
Well, let's let's dive into some of these themes because
we've kind of been dancing around them a little bit,
and I.

Speaker 5 (30:58):
Feel like there's a lot to cover.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
Obviously, the most obvious one, and we've sort of addressed this,
is that Godzilla symbolizes nuclear holocaust from Japan's perspective, and
this is I guess what I would ask is what
do we each think that that this film has to
say specifically about nuclear weapons and and also specifically how

(31:21):
the Japanese audience views them. There's a there's a few
moments or a few quotes from from the film's creators.

Speaker 5 (31:30):
I know that, excuse me.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
Director Honda said that if Godzilla had been a dinosaur
or some of an animal, he would have been killed
by just one cannon ball. But if he were equal
to an atomic bomb, we wouldn't know how, we wouldn't
know what to do.

Speaker 5 (31:46):
So I took the characteristic characteristics.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
Of an atomic bomb and applied them to Godzilla. And
obviously I think that just you know, there is almost
like a supernatural I guess I'm Matthew. You sort of
mentioned he's a force in nature or a force for God.
There's almost nothing that can destroy him. He leaves wreckage.
He's got a mystery or a supernatural sort of ethos

(32:13):
to him. So, yeah, what do we think that the
film is specifically trying to say about nuclear weapons and
specifically from the Japanese perspective? Ashley, why don't you start
us off on this one?

Speaker 1 (32:27):
I think they make a really intelligent choice by having
something like a big giant monster is a fun idea, right, Like,
it's way more fun than the idea of even though
we do get a glimpse of it in this movie,
and it's some of the more serious ones of looking
at the human cost of this. It's a really intelligent

(32:48):
way to like put like, oh, you've ruined this creature's life,
you've destroyed its environment, you've questioned its future, when all
it was doing was what it has been doing from
time immemoriam, which is exactly what the United States did
to Japan at this time. It's also like a big

(33:08):
kaiju is more fun than don't they call the Hiroshima
angels like the women who survived the bombing and were
horribly disfigured. Like It's a much more fun way to
address something super super serious. I think it also shows
how present like this is less than ten years after

(33:32):
what happened. And so I've heard people.

Speaker 9 (33:38):
I would say stupid people contend that Godzilla is like
a disrespectful way or this type of storytelling is a
disrespectful way to address this a serious issue, and I
completely disagree, because, like, if you've ever come up against
a medical.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Issue or grieved like a displacement like this can be
pretty healthy. And I think this is why now I'm
gonna take myself off that I think this is why
American gods Alla movies are not as good as Japanese
Godzilla movies, because we inherently don't understand what happened, even
though the people who are making these films now are

(34:12):
obviously several generations removed, like for people who were boarded
race in North America, like, these events that preceded this
film are just something on a history page, and I
just think like we lack that deep cultural insight that
even in the silliest movies runs underneath it. I think

(34:33):
it also speaks a great deal to the Japanese people
that there was a willingness to confront such horrors in
art and entertainment. Yeah, I just like can't. I also
feel I have like a tremendous white guilt right now
discussing this, being like this is just my thoughts. I
don't know if any of this, but I mean, ultimately

(34:56):
I don't. I don't think that you could get some
thing like this if it were not preceded by like
there probably would have been a movie called Godzilla.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
But would we be talking about.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
It almost a century later. Probably not. And although that
is horrible, I think it speaks to the great healing
power of art. And yes, I'll say Godzilla's art and
I will die on that hill happily that we are
that we're doing this podcast right now.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
It is interesting to think about it because we can
obviously only see it from our own perspective, from an
American perspective, And one thing that is very clear is
like the way the film was changed and edited for
its American release, and the political elements are watered down.
Certain things are the American aids just didn't have according

(35:46):
to what I saw, the distributors didn't have a taste
for the discussion of these themes. And it seems like
it's very straightforward. I mean, we have a character I
can't remember which one, but at the beginning of the
film say oh, yeah, you know I I barely you know,
got out of Nagasaki before the bombs dropped, and now
like this is happening. And to me that I mean,

(36:08):
there's part of me that can relate to that, because
I feel like, again, certain things like for example, the
Marvel Snap if you will, feels different in a having
gone through the COVID pandemic, so you know, it feels
more tangible to some degree, and so there's a there's.

Speaker 5 (36:25):
A certain.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
There's a certain I guess way I feel like it
can relate to what you know, these people must have
been feeling to some degree. But then there's a complete
gap of like as you said, Ashley, I don't think
that an American audience can completely grasp I would even
argue maybe an American audience. Maybe it's changed now, but
at least of the time, American audience did not have
the taste to handle this film unfiltered in its original form. Matthew,

(36:54):
you have any any thoughts on what you think this
film says about nuclear war and maybe the difference between
Japanese an American perspective on it.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
Yeah, I mean, I as you all were talking, I'm
just thinking back to like old fights I used to
have with coworkers about the morality of dropping those bombs
in the first place, right, And it was just someone
two generations older than me defending the decision, and I'm
down here, like, no, there's no defense for that kind
of mass death and destruction, especially because it it's not

(37:27):
just immediate, it's generational.

Speaker 6 (37:28):
And it's almost.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
Like a blastpheme of the earth, right, And so I'm
always so I look at Godzelda through that lend, and
I'm a very like.

Speaker 6 (37:40):
Anti proliferation kind of person.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
You know, We've got some archives here at work that
are like we've got a lot of adoptors and scientists
against nuclear war stuff in the archives at Harvard and
thinking about it through that lens, and like there might
have been a lefty, hippie academic audience for or the
Japanese presentation of Godzilla in the fifties, but it was

(38:04):
never going to sell well in the US because we
were still pretty like and we still are today, ra rah.

Speaker 6 (38:10):
We won the war, we saved the world.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Kind of about it, and we had to do this
one bad thing to save everybody, and looking at the
nuance of the consequences is not really historically the American way,
let's say. And so the look making it more just
monster movie and silly and we have to save the

(38:35):
day is much more of an American presentation to my mind,
and I'm thinking about it a lot through you know,
seventy years later. I'm wondering if we got a creator
for a Godzilla film with a background of someone who
has survived Katrina and looked at it through a natural disaster,

(38:56):
climate change driven lens production of Godzilla that might look
like and if that would speak more clearly to a
shared American experience, Especially as we move forward, we're going
to see a lot more of that, unfortunately, So thinking
about like maybe there's maybe the localization for the for
the heavier, more nuanced themes of these movies would have

(39:18):
to do with like what disasters have befallen a particular
culture and are really ultimately the response the fault of
man man's disregard for nature and the backlash that that
throws at us.

Speaker 6 (39:33):
Right, So for.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
Japan, they're dealing with, you know, uh, nuclear fallout and
H bomb testing as the US continues to do H
bomb testing or in the islands surrounding them, because we
never test things on our own soil, right, We're going
to make everyone else suffer. So yeah, thinking like the

(39:54):
thingatics might change depending on a localization, which makes me
really want to see more localized versions of this.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
Uh No, not at all, I think I think that's
a fantastic suggestion. I mean there is something, there is
something that we are going to deal with that that
has some shared DNA.

Speaker 5 (40:15):
When we're talking about the way that we.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
Have thoughtlessly, uh you know, run towards you know, the
most drastic climate change possible and now are going to
reap the the the tragedies that will come with it. There,
they are going to be inescapable and there will be
I think some of this this feeling of like what
were we doing if we're not already there? You know,

(40:41):
one thing that's interesting that we mentioned earlier that I
think is important to bring up at this point in
the conversation is the idea of what you were just saying, Matthew,
that the that this isn't just a reflection on the
dropping of the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But a
few months before this film was made, there was an
incident that's referred to by the vessel's name. It's Dago

(41:05):
Fukaru Maru, which translates to Lucky Dragon number five.

Speaker 5 (41:09):
This is a Japanese fishing.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
Vessel that was showered with radioactive fallout from the US
military's fifteen megaton Castle Bravo hydrogen bomb, and this was
a test that took place at Bikinia Toll at.

Speaker 5 (41:23):
The boat's catch was contaminated.

Speaker 4 (41:24):
It spurred a panic in Japan about the safety of
eating fish, and the crew was sickened. One crew member
eventually died of radiation sickness, and this led to an
emergence of a large anti nuclear movement in general within Japan,
but then spread beyond that, and the film's opening scene,

(41:45):
you know, with this Japanese vessel is supposed to be
a direct reference to these events. Some of the public
at the time, Japanese public thought that was exploitive, but
I think it, at least for as an American audience,
I think what immediately makes me go I.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
Was like, wow, we were still I don't know that
I have.

Speaker 4 (42:07):
Completely taken in the idea of like the atrocities of
radiation did not cease after these two bombs, that we're
still sending panic radiating individuals in another country because we
got to test new weapons.

Speaker 5 (42:23):
For what purpose, I'm not sure, but.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
It's definitely something that I think hangs over the film
that speaks to I guess some of the distaste that
maybe American audience had at the time, and why there
was a localized version that was so heavily edited.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
I almost wonder if that kind of event had been
that close to release today, if the film would have
still come out, right.

Speaker 5 (42:48):
Yeah, I don't think they would.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yeah, Well, because last year there was a film that
came out about the attacks on America during Not eleven
and people were like, too soon, too soon? Right, So
we do love to precious about ourselves.

Speaker 5 (43:02):
Very very precious.

Speaker 4 (43:03):
Yeah, we feel we feel very different about it when
it's our history and we relate to it. And before
I go to Jack and get his thoughts on this,
I do want to throw one other question to you,
Matthew and get your opinion. Do you feel like this film?
I guess my instinct and feel free to disagree with me.
My instinct is that this film does not want One

(43:24):
of the reasons that it seems so I don't know
intelligent in its approach is that it does not seem
like it's going. Oh, as much as we can blame
the Americans, it doesn't seem to be like that's the
rest of the film. I feel like there's a lot
of introspect in this film about what have we done

(43:45):
as a Japanese society and what sins have we caused?

Speaker 5 (43:48):
And what are we paying for? What sins will we do?
Like even the.

Speaker 4 (43:51):
Whole idea of this, this Oxygen Destroyer, seems to suggest
like this is a human problem. You know, it's not
a United problem, it's not a Japanese problem. This is
a problem of people handling god like powers irresponsibly.

Speaker 5 (44:09):
Do you think that's present in there?

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (44:12):
Absolutely, yeah, it's there's a there's a sense of that
that that conflict. I am forgetting the older scientist's name
you were mentioning earlier who was questioning whether we actually
had the right to kill Godzillah and what are we
doing right that kind of like what has science wrought
a Jurassic Park?

Speaker 6 (44:32):
Well this pre dates Draassic Park by decades.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
But that same question of right, like, we've done these
terrible things, there are consequences to those terrible things. Do
we have a right to go further to negate past consequences?

Speaker 6 (44:47):
And what would those future consequences be, right?

Speaker 3 (44:51):
Or should we just kind of let this It's almost
like karmic idea of we have to let this karma happen.
The longer we stretch this out, the worse it's going
to be. And that it's very much a human, human
wide problem, right, And I think there is. I mean
I can't speak from the Japanese perspective, as you know,

(45:11):
an American guy born in the eighties, but there's this
sense of like.

Speaker 5 (45:19):
Retribution happening right for for past sins.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
And yeah, I don't think that's specifically only a Japanese
versus American problem. That's a human versus human individual and
society level kind of problem.

Speaker 5 (45:36):
Definitely. Yeah, Jack, what are.

Speaker 4 (45:39):
Your thoughts on the themes that that god Will represents
and this conversation we've been have.

Speaker 8 (45:45):
So I was actually going to bring up how in
the in the original movie, they really they don't name
drop the Americans as the one testing bomb and I
that is something that I always thought was fascinating. You know, obviously,
historically everyone knew that, you know, well who are the

(46:06):
ones testing the mind? But you know, but but the
fact that they did kind of resist. They very easily
could have, but they they did resist that temptation to
name drop. I was going to bring that up as
an interesting to me, that is thematic to me that
that does say that the Japanese creators wanted this to

(46:28):
be more of a universal story, and that obviously there
are nuances like Godzilla's skin and all of those things
that are directly invoking Japanese fears of the trauma that
they had just gone through. But it seemed to me

(46:50):
that they they still wanted to tell a universal story
just about humanity and the problems that we get ourselves into.
And I think that's why it's able to work so
well as God's the Loo King of the Monsters. You know,
I think if it had been more specifically tied to

(47:17):
a Japanese experience, and that I don't think it could
have worked. I don't think all the all the splicing
in of Richard Burr would have we really would have
worked all that. Well was it Richard Burr? Why am
I forgetting his name? But yeah, so, but I was
also I was listening to some contrary by a film historian,

(47:40):
David Collette, and he was saying that this is He
was arguing that this is the first disaster movie.

Speaker 5 (47:47):
Okay, yeah, definitely I can see that.

Speaker 8 (47:49):
Yeah, and I really, you know, when I really look
at it, it is more of a disaster movie than
it is a monster movie because of the stuff that
has already been mentioned since I joined, you know, like
it has more of a focus on like Godzilla's origins
are not even all that important, you know, it's it's

(48:12):
more of other than how they were caused by us,
and but like how to deal with them, what to
do all of that, It all just it's almost kind
of it's almost sort of an afterthought of the actual
just uh, the actual event and the aftermath that is

(48:32):
left by this creature, Like an American movie would have
been more of like like I was watching them the
other day, you know, and it just kind of struck
me the differences. And I mean, now them, you know,
of course has hindsight to look at God's a little later,
but but it just it cracks me out how they
managed to American monster movies, they always managed to stop

(48:56):
the horror. They always managed to stop the New York
from burning. It's always this, it's always this ticking time
bomb in American monster movies. It's always like, oh my god,
if we don't stop this thing, this city will be destroyed,
this horror will spread, this will happen. But Godzilla, it
happens like the worst of the worst happens. The biggest

(49:19):
city in Japan is destroyed. How do you get much
worse than that? Just what other cities will be destroyed? Okay, sure,
but I mean the worst of the worst happens in
this movie. And so it's it's more of a disaster
movie than it is a monster movie. For sure.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
In my book, you make some great points, and I did.
I did get the same feeling of like, oh, this
is this is one of the parents of the modern
disaster film, you know, like there obviously was a split
at some point where we began to play with Monster
verse monster and it becomes more of like a fun rumble.
But everything about a disaster film is present within this one,

(49:59):
and that's I think speaks to what Ashley and Matthew
were talking about earlier about like Godzilla being less of
a character more of a force of nature. And what
is really interesting, and I would love maybe to get
some feedback from all of you on this, is that
the difference that I have seen between now I wouldn't

(50:21):
say specifically Japanese stories, but specifically American versus non American
stories is exactly what you're.

Speaker 5 (50:29):
Speaking to, Jack.

Speaker 4 (50:30):
We always have a we have a sense of we're
going to overcome this, We're gonna there's gonna be a
happy ending.

Speaker 5 (50:36):
And I feel like.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
This story very much plays with, you know, the idea
that I've seen in many other cultures that I find
very interesting and truthful, and that's the idea of like, hey,
something sometimes something comes out of the darkness, can't be explained,
leaves you in a you know, a disaster and a
wreckage and you just have to pick the pieces up

(51:01):
and go on. There's not always an explanation, there's not
always a sort of conclusion, you know, emotionally for you
sometimes it's just a traumatic, life changing event that changes
everything and then life continues.

Speaker 5 (51:18):
And I mean, even as.

Speaker 4 (51:20):
You were talking about the idea of beating Godzilla, I mean,
we clearly find that in this movie, but it comes
with the idea of like, well, if we introduce something
almost as bad or maybe worse than Godzilla or that
will continue the the you know, the the legacy of
death that we're experiencing, Well, maybe we can defeat this creature.

Speaker 5 (51:42):
But have we really defeated it.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
I mean, we have the one of the characters saying
at the end, hey, if we keep doing this, there's
going to be another Godzilla. And I don't even know
if he specifically means another creature like that or just
something of that level. And there's there's discussion too of
like Godzilla. There's like reporters going, I guess Godzilla is
just going to destroy the world. He's unstoppable everyone, He's

(52:04):
just going to continue going. I mean, there really is
a sense of like we are small, the world is big,
and this is not something that we can comprehend, almost
in a love Craftian type of way.

Speaker 5 (52:18):
Yeah, I guess, goo ahead. Good.

Speaker 8 (52:20):
I want to say this also like thematically too, you know,
this concept of the big unknowable thing. So you mentioned Lovecraft, right,
and so like Lovecraft starts writing around the twenties, it's
it's interesting to look at horror, like especially particularly monsters.

(52:41):
It's interesting to look at the changes that sort of
happen in monster storytelling. So before the Great War, monsters
were more relegated to the domestic sphere, and they were.

Speaker 7 (52:57):
Sneaky and they would seek into your life, you know,
and and it was more of a monsters are more
of a personal, smaller thing, that type of stuff. And
then we enter then with the Great War happens and
the world wakes up to this concept of globalism and
that we all affect each other, and that they start,

(53:21):
you know, people start becoming scared of other groups of
people and and things that are out there. The world
becomes more scary.

Speaker 8 (53:27):
And this idea that Lovecraft hits very well, but that
I feel like Godzilla is a perfect you know, other
side of the ocean sort of culmination of this idea
is that there there there are unknowable, terrifying things in
the world, and we might wake them up as we

(53:50):
continue to get bigger and kind of uh, fuck with
things and fuck with each other and fuck with the world.
We might, you know, there are things that we can't
imagine that will that will come for us sort of
thing or that might We just can't imagine what's out there.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
This concept, Brian, I think you super nail that we
were talking about, like the idea of something big versus
us as humans being small. Because even though like we're
very much hitting on sort of the American aspect of
this film, even though it is unspoken by the actual
films creators, but I think this also sort of echoes

(54:31):
that same idea that like, if we keep pushing these boundaries,
like if we keep cracking atoms and blah blah blah,
then what we're gonna unleash is going to be so untenable.
And whether or not it's a giant monster or not,
we'll leave that up to your interpretation. That it seems
to me that it's like positing the idea that like

(54:52):
maybe we should roll back, maybe we should not be
playing God quite as much, like not the point of
going all the way back to like a feudal traditionalist
point of view, but it definitely.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Asked the same questions.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
That become echoed later and more obviously in something like
The Jurassic Park, where it's like, well, should we even
be doing this because ultimately, when it comes to quote
unquote fighting the natural elements, we are the ants and
we will lose.

Speaker 8 (55:22):
That's like a question that dates back to Frankenstein, you know.
And but it's just it gets bigger with Godzilla, like
much literally just figure bigger, literally and figuratively bigger.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
I like to think Mary Shelley would have been a
Gonzilla fan.

Speaker 8 (55:36):
I think.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
I get it accepted. We're gonna announce uh Family Express's
newest Mary Shelley.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Uh Ree, I don't know.

Speaker 10 (55:48):
Yeah, actually it to.

Speaker 8 (55:50):
Host Frankenstein Conker's the World is one of the feu
to movies.

Speaker 5 (55:53):
I can't see.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Oh it's a good one. It's got it. You gotta
Bookie season just ended, so was got homework to watch it?

Speaker 4 (56:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (56:01):
Definitely.

Speaker 4 (56:02):
Well let me ask this before we wrap up taking
discussing themes and take take a quick break. The one
thing that I did want to touch on that we
have only dabbled on is applying this to our our
current world. And I mentioned a little bit about the
way that I view sort of the snap in the MCU,
but COVID, the COVID pandemic, I think has changed so much,

(56:26):
and it's it's simply because it was you know, a
number of generations experience that you know, changed the world
the same way that I would imagine something like a
world war affects it. And now I find myself relating
differently to so many things, whether it's stories that were

(56:50):
created previously before the pandemic or stories that are created afterwards.
Even the idea of I feel like to something. My
own faith in humanity has lowered even a bit more now,
Like when people are like, you know, oh yeah, someone
would get together and make a second Jurassic Park and

(57:11):
call it Jurassic World and just ignore the the obvious problems,
I'm like, Okay, now I can understand why that might happen.
Before I thought it was ridiculous. Now it happened is
no longer ridiculous, you know. But but I feel like
that's what I sense with this film. And I did
find a quote from some academics with Ann Allison, Thomas Schnellbacher,

(57:34):
and Stephen Riffel have all said that, you know, this
film contains political and cultural undertones. These obviously contribute to
the Japanese experience and after World War Two, but also,
like I guess, they mentioned what Ashley mentioned earlier, that
the Godzilla is somewhat.

Speaker 5 (57:53):
Of a tragic figure.

Speaker 4 (57:55):
They could that Japanese audience is connected emotionally to this
monster even in this.

Speaker 5 (58:01):
And also that this is.

Speaker 4 (58:04):
This film served as a cultural coping method to help
the people of Japan move on from the events of
the war. And I think this is such an important
thing with especially the genre stories. I feel like when
we look at things like Star Trek, Star Wars, Godzilla,
there's so many out there. We're dealing with things that
sometimes we can't put our finger on, but culturally we're
trying to cope with things that either don't add up

(58:27):
or we have trauma associated with and that's clearly president
in the story. And so I just want to take
a moment to talk about how stories like Godzilla help
us contextualize overwhelming events and devastation. And do you see
any of this present like I do in a post
pandemic world.

Speaker 5 (58:47):
Let's go around once more. Jack, I'll throw it to
you first.

Speaker 8 (58:50):
So I feel like, I mean, I know that Godzilla
is more of a sci fi movie, but Horror is
so cathartic and being able to take something that we
are culturally or personally, that that terrifies us or that
even traumatized us, and condense it down onto a screen

(59:15):
into a limited run time where in a way you
have control because you can turn it on or off,
or you can get up and leave the theater, you
could just stop watching. I think that is so healthy
and gets us through a lot. And I don't think that,
you know, horror gets enough credit for that, and I
think that Godzilla represents that. So I'm sure I have
no doubt that Godzilla did that for the Japanese people,

(59:39):
who you know, for contemporary audiences who are watching it.
And I also I wanted to bring up like the
twenty fourteen Godzilla I thought did a really good job
of Yes, it was very Americanized, even in some some
bad ways, but I really you know, you talked about
looking back on some thing like after COVID and stuff.

(01:00:02):
So I look back on that movie now and I
see a sort of more updated story about climate change
and about something like COVID where the the countries that
are kind of more quote advanced that are are kind
of at a disadvantage, you know, like the more populated countries,

(01:00:25):
the quote first world countries, the the the powerhouses, the
superpowers are actually at a disadvantage with these monsters that
show up in that move because they are more targets.
And I feel like that with climate change and COVID, like, yeah,
everyone suffers, everyone will suffer through those, but it's mostly

(01:00:51):
the superpower is causing the problems, and it will mostly
be the superpowers dealing with the problems as well. Some
other countries can actually with less population or more spread
out population, I won't. We'll actually be able to get

(01:01:12):
by a little bit better in some situations.

Speaker 4 (01:01:16):
It's a good point, and I think we're obviously we
see signs of erosion of belief in institutions and nations
and the ability for them to provide for their people.
I think everywhere, you know, definitely in our own country. Matthew,
what are your thoughts on cultural coping through stories like this?

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
I mean, I think I would be out of work
if I didn't think culture should get.

Speaker 6 (01:01:47):
Help with cultural coping or with any sort of coping.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
That's kind of one of the ideas behind all the
graphic medicine stuff right is it's there can be a
chance for Catharsis, both for creator and for reader, though
there is often opportunity for re traumatizing oneself by approaching
these stories if you're not careful. So why you should
get reading suggestions for someone who knows what they're talking

(01:02:12):
about and watching suggestions too. But yeah, I think, I
mean it's I've always felt that, you know, stories were
important for things like that, but it does seem really
vital now and I'm always looking for Uh. For me,
I want something that's got a little bit of hope

(01:02:32):
to it more than I used to because I struggle
to find it in you know, the real real world
we're living in. But I also don't want it to
be like, uh, false optimism, which to me is most optimism.

Speaker 6 (01:02:46):
I'm a little pessimistic.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
But uh, I'm thinking of what book was it?

Speaker 6 (01:02:54):
Kim Stanley Robinson book.

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
It's not a movie, but you know, I'd love to
see some of his stuff adapted. The Ministry for the
Future did a decent job of like capturing a lot
of this like fear around climate change and predicting what
could possibly happen, and also showing that, yeah, our systems
aren't going to work. Our systems got us here, and

(01:03:20):
mass death might not actually lead people to pay attention
and make a change, right, which is kind of the
where I'm sitting with COVID. Like a lot of us
individually have had realizations and have wanted to make changes,
and may have made.

Speaker 6 (01:03:34):
Some personal life changes.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
But I feel like if anything were kind of being
drug in a different direction in the face of mass
death with you mentioned the erosion of trusts and systems,
which some people were already there, we basically just empowered
a lot of conspiracy theories in the face of all
of this.

Speaker 5 (01:03:56):
And by we, I mean you know, not those of
us on this call.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
Unless someone on here is a billionaire tech company person,
then I don't know that Jack might have a secret
life or something. Yeah, but right, there's this chance, you know,
to feel seen. I think, is what's really important here
that I'm trying to get to in a really roundabout way.
Like I mentioned that book Ministry for the Future.

Speaker 6 (01:04:20):
It gave me.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
It didn't give me hope, but it let me know
that someone else is out there thinking similar thoughts and
similar problems in in a thoughtful way. Instead of a
screaming on the internet way, and someone applied some creativity
and art to it, and that makes me feel a
little bit better because there's possibilities and chances even when
it feels like there aren't possibilities and chances.

Speaker 6 (01:04:45):
So if anyone has a good film version of that
for me, let me know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
But I struggle finding positive hope field things in film.
Really it's all kind of disaster and conquer in films.

Speaker 6 (01:04:57):
It feels like a lot of the time.

Speaker 5 (01:05:01):
It's you make a good point, And I mean, we
are in a.

Speaker 4 (01:05:06):
Bizarre position where we if we just look at it,
for example, of a global pandemic. We have messages out
there right now as we approach the presidential election in
the United States where people are asking on ironically, were
you better for four years ago? And we were, you know,
we had thousands of people that you know that you

(01:05:28):
know four years ago we were. We were crippled in
many ways. So yeah, I don't, I don't. I don't
know that hope. I totally agree with you, Matthew, that
hope is necessary for us to get through. But I
I guess I lament or empathize with this idea of
like trying to balance it as an individual in these

(01:05:50):
times where you want to be able to not give
up one hundred percent and have some hope that things
can change, but you also don't want to uh put
yourself in some sort of bubble where you're lying to
yourself or giving yourself false hope, and that seems to
be a mental struggle. I think that many of us
go through, I imagine all over the world.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
Right false hope or just blatant refusal to acknowledge what's
happening at all, right.

Speaker 5 (01:06:18):
Right exactly?

Speaker 4 (01:06:20):
Ashley, what are your thoughts on this film as a
way to culturally cope with things?

Speaker 5 (01:06:26):
And I guess stories in general. Overall.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
I think it's so interesting because in a post COVID
you know that we're not and will never be post
COVID world. I feel like we're coping in a very
similar way.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
When I think about.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
All the movies that I've enjoyed that have come out
this year, or that I found the most exciting or
that I am looking forward to in the sort of
final months, they're all horror and yeah, and some of
them are revisits of old like I'll fight anyone who
didn't think Illian Roymulst was great, Andy, come on, what

(01:07:06):
more do you want? And a lot of them are
about dealing with like an untenable, unknowable threat, even something
like long Legs, which I think was phenomenal, even if
you can see the direct threats going all the way
back to something like Silence of the Lambs, like it
hinges on the idea of like, we don't quite know
what we're up against. And I think that for a

(01:07:27):
lot of people during the COVID pandemic at its height
and lockdown, I think that's what it felt like because
we weren't being given accurate or enough information. Because Delta
decided that they wanted people to go back to work
after five days. So suddenly we were allowed to go
back to work after five days, and we got things like, oh,
you can get your vaccine. Well, no, you can't get

(01:07:49):
your vaccine. Oh well you can get your vaccine if
you drive to the Red County because less people want
their vaccines there than in the Blue county that you
live in.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Am I talking about where I live? Who could possibly say?

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Hey? And I find it sort of fascinating that obviously horror, monsters, disaster,
all of that has evolved a lot since the time
of Godzilla, like we're tugging out those same threads to
be like, well, at least at least it's not bad,

(01:08:20):
right am I right right? We're doing okay, yeah, yeah, okay,
But ultimately I think it's healthier than getting into the
pains of addiction or violence. So I'm gould say we're
doing okay. I'm pretty happy without how we're.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Shaking it out.

Speaker 4 (01:08:38):
Well, I think we'll all continue to use stories to
culturally cope. But yeah, Godzilla is a perfect example, and
I think if you haven't watched it, definitely definitely check
it out. Simply for those reasons. We're going to take
a quick break. We've got a lot more to cover,
including I want to dive into the iconic Godzilla roar,

(01:08:58):
which is just unmistakable and used fantastically in this film.

Speaker 5 (01:09:02):
But we will be back in just a minute. Listeners,
stick with us. Welcome back, listeners.

Speaker 4 (01:09:07):
We are once again diving into our seventieth anniversary retrospective
on the original Godzilla feature film, and as I mentioned
before the break, I want to talk about this iconic roar.

Speaker 5 (01:09:20):
It's one of the first things we hear in the film.

Speaker 4 (01:09:23):
And I was unaware of this, but I guess it
was created by loosening the strings of a contrabass and
rubbing them with a leather glove. Then they take that
sound after it's recorded and place it at a play
it at a reduced speed, and this achieves the effect
of the roar used in the film. And like many
of the things like the suit mation and other elements,

(01:09:45):
this one became a technique that was adopted by Toho
as a standard method in creating monster wars in the
following years. So obviously I do want to hear everyone's
thoughts on what makes this roar so definitive. You know,
what makes it so iconic why?

Speaker 5 (01:10:03):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
It just works for me. It hits something inside me
that is just that's a monster roar. That's a you know,
supernatural of another world type of creature.

Speaker 5 (01:10:14):
And I also think.

Speaker 4 (01:10:15):
That that can lead us into a discussion of just
what makes Godzilla such an iconic monster. I mean, he
sets the standard in this film and influences film and monsters,
specifically Kaiju films. But but you know, we talked about
disaster films. There's so much that is established. I think
in this first film. So I would love to dissect

(01:10:37):
a little bit about what you think makes Godzilla so
iconic and why he has endured with little changes for
so long.

Speaker 5 (01:10:49):
Ashley, why don't you start us off on this one?

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Happy too.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
It's funny when you were explaining how the Godzilla roar
was made. It reminds me of what I considered to
be two other really iconic sounds. It's the sound of
the tartis shifting in and out of time from Doctor Who.
And it's the sounds that the oliphants make in the
Lord of the Rings, And the tartar sound was also
made and then I guess the lightsaber but Star Wars

(01:11:16):
gets enough fan first Wars. The tartar sound was also
made by scratching an object that's maybe not necessarily supposed
to be. And the olifant sound is the sound of
a male stallion said male stallion applies male in heat
who is unhappy to be in heat. And I think
the reason that all three of these are sort of

(01:11:38):
iconic sounds in the filmic soundscape is because they just
don't sound right. I know that is like a wild
and silly thing to say, but they almost sound antithetical.
To the soundscapes that we're used to in our natural

(01:11:58):
worlds and in our lives. And because you are experiencing
something that is unnatural Godzilla arguably super or hyper natural,
but certainly not something that we see walking around every
single day unless we live in a very blessed universe.
And I think that's why it resonates, and because you're right,
it just sounds right the way it builds. Like if

(01:12:19):
you saw a movie and you didn't have the Gozilla roar,
or you didn't have the you'd be like, what are
we even doing here? Why are we watching this? Matthew Roderick,
What is happening? They've become such intrinsic building blocks amidst
all the other tropes that we that we want, And
I think it's because they are singular and they just
simply don't sound like anything else.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
I think that's why it's so iconic.

Speaker 4 (01:12:44):
Well, and you make make a great point that they
changed a lot with that Matthew Godzilla design, but they
did not change the roar. Am I correcting that it
was the same roar, right.

Speaker 8 (01:12:55):
They added a screech to the screen.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
Okay, and it only happens once.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
Tragically, it was really.

Speaker 4 (01:13:04):
I have not revisited that film in a long time.
I do remember it being somewhat similar.

Speaker 5 (01:13:08):
But yeah, I all.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
Coming back for that anniversary episode. I'm understand.

Speaker 4 (01:13:14):
Oh boy and the animated series of course. Well you
know that is is an interesting point. I guess what
I would I just follow that up with Ashbaz. Is
there anything else any other elements of this creature that
you think I I sealed the deal the fire breathing nuclear.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
Breath and it being blue.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
I mean I did. I did really love Godzilla X
con Colon, Rise of a New Empire or whatever the
fuck that movie was called, making Godzilla a bisexual icon
by adding the pink for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

Speaker 5 (01:13:48):
But because it was cool, right, And I could go.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
With that for a lot of things, however, but the
blue to me is iconic.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
I like to tell the story where when I saw
the twenty fourteen movie in theaters, there was a woman
wearing a very very loud momou sitting in front of me,
and when Godzilla powered up into the atomic breath for
the first time, she put her hands over her head
and clapped and screamed, and I was like, that's correct,
that is the feeling and that is what I want.

(01:14:18):
So I think I think for me, it's the it's
the it's the theme, it's the roar, and it's the
atomic breath, which I think once obviously the movie has
become colorized, is accompanied by that that specific it's like
X Men pink. It's like that Godzilla blue. You've got
to have the Godzilla blue well, and it is.

Speaker 4 (01:14:34):
It's such a great visual image to watch, like those
dorsal fins like light up and charge.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fun.

Speaker 5 (01:14:45):
Jack.

Speaker 4 (01:14:45):
What are your thoughts on on the Godzilla scream and
what else makes this creature iconic?

Speaker 5 (01:14:50):
Oh?

Speaker 8 (01:14:50):
I have so many thoughts. So if we go back
in time to to little Jack growing up on Godzilla movies,
because Godzilla raised to me, like he probably raised all
of you. You know, my vhss were worn down of
the variety of Gutsla movies. But as a little kid,
when I would watch these movies where he was support

(01:15:12):
where he was alone, there were no other monsters, which
I guess what really was just this one. But like
most of the movies where he was the antagonist, I
would always think about the fact that, you know, animal
calls are for communication, so I was like, what is
he trying to communicate? And who is he trying to

(01:15:34):
I would always think about that, and that's a great time.

Speaker 5 (01:15:37):
It made me.

Speaker 8 (01:15:37):
It made me sad for him because I would always
just like in my in my head can and my
little kid head canon, I was like, he's looking for
his family, he's looking for other others of his kind.
But what really just so so something that Ashley said
about how like there's something about it that's just not right,

(01:15:57):
but at the same time is right, Like or the
fact that it's just there's something about the sound that
isn't right, it isn't natural, but that somehow makes it natural, right,
I mean, because it does seem if I were to
try to come up with a sound for a giant
monster to make on my own, it would not have
been that, you know. And and it is one of

(01:16:20):
the uh it's one of the most recognizable sounds in
all of cinema. It is probably my favorite sound on
the world, the scree ONC and uh. I do really
like the added screen part to the ONC, you know,

(01:16:40):
like which they kind of removed for Godzilla minus one.
If I have on that's the only complaint I have
about Godzilla minus one is that we don't get the
scree with the ONC. We just get the ONNC part
of his call. But it's it does it sounds like
if you were to imagine like a sound sound that

(01:17:00):
just blasts out of the O ship that can be
heard by an entire city. It kind of is like
a siren sort of sound. It's I mean, not like
like myth logical siren. I mean like an actually blaring
sort of siren sound, like as a warning, like oh shit,
this is company. And I'm always fascinated by the different

(01:17:24):
calls in the movies, by the different interpretations of them,
So like, I love how in this movie it is
kind of basic. It's more of a basic roar. Occasionally
you get the scree in there, but then later the
srink becomes the standard and it becomes a little bit
more pitchy, you know, of a of a tone, of

(01:17:45):
a of a sound. And then we get to my
favorite version of it, which is in I grew up
with it as Godzilla in nineteen eighty five, but it's
Return of Godzilla.

Speaker 5 (01:17:55):
I love that movie.

Speaker 8 (01:17:56):
Oh my god, this sound his call, his whatever you
want to call it in that and in the two
movies after that is to me is absolutely perfect. I
mean I just love it, absolutely love it. It's ferocious sounding,
it's intimidating, I absolutely and it sounds kind of pissed.
I really love it. The other the other qualities of him, though,

(01:18:20):
that stand out. You know, I had taken for granted
a long like. I read an article years ago about
how litigious Toho is, how they are worse than Disney
when it comes to being lawsuit happy and defending for that,
and it got me. This article made me realize how

(01:18:42):
we take for granted, just because Godzilla is that much
of an icon and he is so proliferated pop culture.
We take for granted that a bipedal, big giant reptilian
thing with jagged scales down its fact that drags tail,

(01:19:04):
we take for granted that that is Godzilla, that we
see that all that's become like we just think that's
like a trope, that's standard, that's just oh, that's any
other creature. But no, really, Godzilla was the first. Godzilla
was the first, like upright on two legs, dragging the tail,
jagged spines down the back, reptilian thing. Nothing else had

(01:19:25):
really been that and I didn't realize that until I
read that article, Like, and that's what Toho will. You know, Well,
we'll see like if anyone else does a bipedal reptilian
jagged scales down the back thing, they will sue. And
and it seems kind of silly because it's like, well,
that could anything could be that, right, that's just the
standard giant monster. No, it's really not Godzilla set that trend.

(01:19:50):
I mean, Godzilla is the first, and so like everything
about him is so iconic that we don't even realize
that it's iconic, Like we actually think that it's generic
because he he's just that much of a part of
our culture, of our culture.

Speaker 5 (01:20:04):
That's a great point. And you know, it makes me think.

Speaker 4 (01:20:06):
I was watching a documentary on giant monsters the other night,
and they were talking about how unique Godzilla was and
the creatures that followed him in the films, because so
much of the other giant monster films are just like, hey,
what if ants were big, what if crabs were big?
What if spiders were really big?

Speaker 8 (01:20:32):
You know, cong's just the giant ape. I mean, he's
not the script ape, but Godzilla is. There's nothing that
exists that is like Godzilla. He was like, you're saying
they didn't just take something and make it big. They
he's a uniquely designed monster.

Speaker 5 (01:20:47):
Very much.

Speaker 4 (01:20:48):
Then, Matthew, what are you What are your thoughts on
Godzilla's scream and what made him iconic?

Speaker 6 (01:20:55):
Yeah, before I forget the.

Speaker 3 (01:20:59):
Question of the iconic, how iconic he is, I'm not
going to be able to say the other version of
that word right now. And thinking about trademark and lutigiousness,
I got curious and looked up public domain for Godzilla
is not likely for some time. Just putting that out there,

(01:21:20):
but it's really really messy, and it depends on which
film and which version because Japan's copyright is different than
the US copyright, so it might be in public domain
and Japan but not in the United States. And some
of the collapse are even more messy. There's like a
whole world of people trying to figure out when they
can make use of Godzilla on their own and it's

(01:21:41):
a mess. But yeah, so I mean, for me, I
think you mentioned how they created the sound, and I
think that's really part of it.

Speaker 6 (01:21:52):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:21:52):
It has no and Ashley was talking about this, it
is no basis and what we would expect to hear
an animals sound like necessary because lizards don't really speak
or make sound so much as far as I know.
And when you compare that to we've mentioned Jurassic part
compare that to other giant lizard creatures we see, well,

(01:22:15):
the t Rex was made of a mashup of like
an elephant and a tiger, mashing these sounds together to
create this iconic like long roar.

Speaker 5 (01:22:26):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:22:27):
This this more like low pitched energy kind of thing.
And so I think, you know, I compare those two
in my head a lot, and you've got this actual
living we know this creature existed kind of energy versus
we said, force of nature energy and giving it this
other worldly kind of feel I think helps really draw in.

Speaker 6 (01:22:47):
The immensity of the potential.

Speaker 3 (01:22:50):
Threat or depending on the movie, the potential ally right,
and it just it it draws.

Speaker 6 (01:22:57):
You in and you instantly know that that it's.

Speaker 3 (01:22:59):
God's and you know, I can understand them wanting to
protect the legal rights to that.

Speaker 6 (01:23:08):
Yeah, and the flames.

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
It's funny I was as we were watching rewatching this
because you can't actually see the coloration so much in
the original, right, It's almost at first you have to
you have to tell yourself that it's a flame a
little bit, because it's almost more of like a force
sitting in the ground.

Speaker 6 (01:23:30):
It's got the weight to the fire in a way
that I mean, fire does have weight to it. We
don't think.

Speaker 3 (01:23:35):
About it that way a lot, naturally, I don't think.
But it's more like pushing things more than it's burning
things in the original and that really like that effect
stands out a lot, and it's like, oh, a bomb
going off kind of energy that I don't know that
I always see in the more colorized modern versions of it.

Speaker 6 (01:23:57):
It's more like an energy blast.

Speaker 9 (01:23:59):
Right.

Speaker 6 (01:23:59):
It is still fire, but it's got an energy blast
feel to it.

Speaker 5 (01:24:04):
There.

Speaker 4 (01:24:04):
There's definitely an atomic age feel to a lot of
these things, even the even the scream. I think, I
don't know that it's something you can like substantiate in
some way like how did how did they nail that?
But it feels both like ancient and mythological, like a dinosaur.
But there's something, yeah, we all noted something weird or

(01:24:28):
almost technological about it, you know. And the same as
with the with the breath, it could just be like
a fire breathing dragon, but they they definitely achieved something
that feels more modern and ancient.

Speaker 5 (01:24:41):
At the same time. It's it's really fascinating.

Speaker 6 (01:24:44):
Well go ahead, Jack, No, I.

Speaker 8 (01:24:48):
Was just gonna say one thing that actually bothers me
is that I've always, I always referred to it as
thermonuclear breath. But then, but then I watched the actual
Godzilla movies, like and they just call it a heat
rat and I was.

Speaker 5 (01:25:03):
Like, oh, ray all it Like, well.

Speaker 6 (01:25:09):
If it's a ray, then the way that it impacts
objects makes even less.

Speaker 8 (01:25:12):
Sense, right right, yeah, because like where's the concussive force
coming from? But yeah, I was just like, oh heat right.

Speaker 4 (01:25:19):
You know, if Godzilla is here, we'd all have a
different word for his for his breath. We just describe
it differently in different parts. Its like soda and pop.

Speaker 7 (01:25:28):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:25:31):
Well, let me let me ask this because a few
of you brought up various sequels of the of these films. Uh,
let's take a moment to just talk about what did
follow the original film. Are there any specifically notable Godzilla
films in your opinion? And what are the I guess
looking forward, what are the type of Godzilla films that

(01:25:54):
you would still like to see on the big screen.
What have we not seen yet that would be interesting
to see with this character or this creature?

Speaker 5 (01:26:02):
Ashley, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (01:26:04):
I got to give a.

Speaker 1 (01:26:04):
Shout out to nineteen sixty fourth Mathra versus Godzilla. It's
the first time Mathra and Godzilla crossover. It's so good.
And then you can watch all the Mathra movies starting
in nineteen sixty one. So I truly don't know what
more you could want with your life. It's so good. Also,
I know everybody loves Minus one and it absolutely deserves

(01:26:25):
to be a lauded But like shin, Godzilla is so
good and it's a it's a by comparison to Minus One,
a much campier tone.

Speaker 2 (01:26:35):
There's a wiggly boy in it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
If you if you want to see a bunch of
dumb monsters, it's a really really great one for that.
I also think if you are listening this to this
because you're dedicated to listen to everything, maybe you haven't
watched the movie we're talking about, but you were like,
I would like the best dumb Godzilla movie of all time.
Like I cannot recommend Final Wars to you enough. It

(01:27:00):
is It's like the Pacific rim of its time where
it's like the best dumb monster movie you could ever watch.

Speaker 2 (01:27:08):
It's like such such a good time.

Speaker 1 (01:27:11):
More of what I would like to see in future
I would like to see more animated Godzilla. Netflix has
a pretty good offering, But I really think, because I'm
a big anime girly, I really think there's a really
cool Venn diagram that we could fill there that I
would be super super excited to see, like in a

(01:27:34):
post attack on Titan the mha JJK world. I think
we could do some really cool stuff that I would
love to see. I really just want to see more
things in more genres.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
I never would have thought.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
That a historical piece reflecting on the World Wars would
have been something that would be so meaningful. So I know,
whatever is going to how next that's going to knock
our socks off in that same way, it's going to
be something that's untenable to me. So maybe it's a
rom com. Maybe what I want is a good Zilla

(01:28:07):
rom com, and I want him to officiate a wedding
for some nice lesbians, Like I want something just completely.

Speaker 4 (01:28:17):
Unfathomable my god Zilla Mary's Matra.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
Yeah, I mean they are married yes, correct, But yeah,
I just I'm excited to keep being It's such a
non answer, but I'm excited to keep being surprised because
every time I think, I'm like, well, I guess, I
guess maybe the idea has petered out. I'm just continually surprised,
and that's that's what I want to see more of.

Speaker 5 (01:28:42):
There's definitely got to got to be some interesting things.

Speaker 4 (01:28:45):
I would you know, just spawn by your suggestions, I'm like,
I would love to see like a I will I
always go to like the animal documentaries.

Speaker 5 (01:28:55):
We should have a Kaiju animal documentary?

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
Who narrates it? Though, Well, Marco's dead, so like we
need an iconic Japanese voice.

Speaker 4 (01:29:05):
I don't know if I have the expertise to suggest,
but I think there's something there to be a.

Speaker 5 (01:29:11):
Mind I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
That's a great idea.

Speaker 4 (01:29:15):
Just before I move on, is shin Godzilla the one
that had I when watching this documentary and Giant Monsters.
They were talking about a recent release that had sort
of a parody or satire of the bureaucracy of dealing
with a giant monster.

Speaker 5 (01:29:30):
Yeah, that sound is so fascinating.

Speaker 1 (01:29:32):
Yeah, you also have a character in there who claims
to have come back from America and she speaks a
bunch of English, and she's clearly a Japanese actress who
probably spoke the most English at the audition. But when
you are, you know, someone who lives in North America
and you speak English, You're like, oh, my friends, is
this what it sounds like when we hire people who
are like, yes, I'm Japanese. You know, like, is this

(01:29:52):
what Lost sounded like to the Koreans?

Speaker 5 (01:29:57):
Awesome?

Speaker 4 (01:29:58):
Well, Matthew, what your thoughts on the sequels and what
do you want to see from the future of Godzilla films?

Speaker 3 (01:30:06):
Yeah, so my pitch for that documentary, by the way,
is going to be Roamy Park.

Speaker 6 (01:30:12):
She does Edward Alricket among other things, and she would
be great.

Speaker 3 (01:30:19):
But yeah, I mean, I think I said earlier. You know,
I'm going to pitch Godzilla minus one. My big pitch
for anyone listening if you're iffy about Godzilla is that
my wife is also iffy about Godzilla and loved that
movie because she doesn't as much enjoy the monster destroys
everything for the sake of it energy and really enjoys

(01:30:40):
the human driven side.

Speaker 6 (01:30:41):
And I think it does that well. So I'm going
to pitch that out there.

Speaker 3 (01:30:45):
And there is another film apparently coming from that creative
team they just announced, so that should be something to
look forward to.

Speaker 6 (01:30:55):
Him Godzilla is always worth a watch.

Speaker 3 (01:30:58):
I actually have a soft spot for Mega Godzilla, as
dumb as it is, so if you're looking for something
kind of absurdist, that's always something fun to go back
and watch. The Terror of Mega Godzilla is actually by
is Shiro Honda, so there's you know, you got some
directoral continuity there, and I guess for future things.

Speaker 6 (01:31:20):
You know, I'm feeling this.

Speaker 3 (01:31:22):
Rom com because I would have never thought of that
in my life.

Speaker 1 (01:31:27):
Let's get Kevin Kwan in here, you know, crazy rich
Godzilla's I.

Speaker 8 (01:31:31):
Don't know, Oh yes, I love it.

Speaker 6 (01:31:35):
That would be amazing. But I think I mentioned earlier
wanting some like these ideas.

Speaker 3 (01:31:41):
For like localized kind of localization versions of this, and
I just think like a feathered mecho meso American kind
of version of Godzilla would be amazing to see. So
I don't know how who we need to put in
touch with who to make that happen, but I would
watch that in a heartbeat. That has the energy of
maybe we'll get it in a before we'll get it

(01:32:01):
in a movie. But let's let's figure out who to
call right for certain for certain Jack, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 4 (01:32:10):
What what sequels really have a place in your heart?
And what do you want from the future of Godzilla films?

Speaker 8 (01:32:16):
So my two favorites have already been mentioned, that's Mathra
Versus Godzilla and Return of Godzilla. But some others it's
it's difficult because I like every fucking Godzilla movie. Even
my least favorite, which is uh a Monster's Attack, I

(01:32:37):
still enjoy because it's nothing but clip you know, it's
nothing about a clip show. But I have to say
everyone should watch. If you're a true I don't know, patriot,
you need to watch Goedora the Three Headed Monster because
that is just so much fun. It is just good,

(01:33:01):
and it introduces Godzilla's arch true arch enemy. And it's
also the first time that we get it. It's when
we get the closest to Godzilla as the thing that
he would become, which is like sort of a hero,
a good guy. It's it's the ultimate crossover, and I
love it. I also love Godzilla versus the Smog Monster,

(01:33:22):
also not as Godzilla versus hetera. I grew up with
that movie. That movie is so imaginative, It is such
a trip. It's one of the good guy Godzilla movies
that is still dealing thematically with similar issues that the
original was dealing with, but this time instead of being
the atomic age, it's pollution. And the end of that

(01:33:46):
movie's got animated sequences and fun music. Oh my god,
I love that movie. Just if it's legal in your state,
watch it high. It's which I've never been done, but
I bet it's I bet it's wonderful.

Speaker 3 (01:34:00):
That when is Godzilla me, he's Captain Planet in my brain,
so oh it's.

Speaker 8 (01:34:03):
I mean, it's just it's wonderful. I was like, and
Heaterist is such a good villain. I mean, I just,
oh my god, I love that movie. And then also
GMK all Monsters Attack or well Godzilla mathor King Gadora
Giant All Out Monster's Attack, whatever the Japanese title is.

(01:34:23):
You know, we mentioned someone mentioned earlier like the sort
of guilt factor that uh, the Japanese sort of thematically incorporate.
There's undertones of like that, you know, like we sort
of did this to ourselves a little bit, like you know,
this has sort of come up and for our behavior,
for our which you see a lot of in minus one,
but uh, GMK beat the beat minus one to it,

(01:34:46):
and gmk's got They add the supernatural element to Godzilla,
the supernatural possibility that Godzilla is and encompassed by all
those who died to the Japanese actions in the Pacific War.
And I think that and that is why Godzilla will

(01:35:07):
always come back and always resurrect and always continue to
to attack Japan. I thought that was a fascinating element
to add to the character. Even though it's a one
off movie in its own continuity, it was. It was wonderful.
I loved it. Something that I'd like to see is
a little bit of my answer is a little bit
of a cheat. What I've always wanted to see is

(01:35:28):
Superman versus Godzilla and the comic books.

Speaker 1 (01:35:33):
Okay, you are reading, you have read the comics.

Speaker 5 (01:35:37):
But y'all, yeah, it was Justice Leader, was it Avengers?
Because I feel like I heard both.

Speaker 8 (01:35:48):
Ye'all, it's not I'm gonna be a brat about it.
Reading this thing. As soon as they announced it, I
was like, no, not like that, that's not what.

Speaker 1 (01:35:57):
I just just when I just take your toxicon of choice.
You forget about the words and you look at that
sweet sweetheart.

Speaker 8 (01:36:07):
For what it is. But it's just it's it is
just it's the Monster Verse version, which I'm.

Speaker 10 (01:36:13):
Like, eh, yeah, it's Justice League versus Godzilla versus Kong,
and it's the Justice League running around fighting all these
other monsters that I don't care about because they're Monster
Verse monsters.

Speaker 8 (01:36:26):
And you know, I just was like.

Speaker 5 (01:36:28):
Oh, what do you what do you want, Jack? You
want to team up? What do you want?

Speaker 8 (01:36:32):
I want classic Superman fighting classic Godzilla oka a for
a classic version of Godzilla. Godzilla a simple story. Godzilla
shows up on the is heading towards Metropolis, Superman has
to stop him. It's one of those times that even
Superman is faced with something that that is that he

(01:36:53):
might not be able to handle on his own.

Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
Like, oh uh tight, god zillion tights.

Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
I like to see it.

Speaker 8 (01:37:03):
About Superman trunks or no trunks my outfit to what.
I also would like to see Monster Verse versions of
some of the other Toho characters. Yeah, we want at all,
but apparently we're not going to get that because Legendary
is like, well that costs money and we've proved that
we don't need those other monsters. We don't have to
pay Toho. We just make them. Audience doesn't care.

Speaker 5 (01:37:27):
So well, I'll just add that I do.

Speaker 4 (01:37:32):
I think that sounds fascinating and I think that once
again it makes me think that, well, not that this
is a controversial opinion, Warner Brothers really really messed up
that that first round of of DC films, and they
could have so made themselves stand out of part by
I think adopting something that we talked about before, where

(01:37:54):
it is like let the cannon go out the window
and just focus on doing individual films with these characters
and doing things like this like the I if you
want to compete with the Avengers man, make a Superman
versus Godzilla movie like you knock people's socks off, just
the announcement, have a Batman Predator movie, like figure this
stuff out, like set yourself apart.

Speaker 5 (01:38:16):
I I wish you were at Warner Brothers, Jack.

Speaker 8 (01:38:22):
Saying you don't tell them, I will get I'll.

Speaker 5 (01:38:24):
Put in my best recommendation.

Speaker 4 (01:38:26):
But they don't really you know, they didn't listen to
They don't listen to creators anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:38:31):
They listen to bank sheets now so yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38:35):
That's right.

Speaker 8 (01:38:35):
I am a secret billionaire, so I'll just.

Speaker 4 (01:38:39):
Well will The one thing that I do want to
discuss real quick quickly before we wrap up is our
Stories Matter initiative, And I think for anyone that doesn't
know that's listening our Stories Matter Initiative, fan Base Press
is really just addressing the role that storytelling plays in
our culture and the fact that that obviously extends to

(01:39:00):
the stories that we're discussing, like Godzilla in this case.
And I think we've touched on a number of things,
discussing the themes and you know, the way that we've
connected with this film, the way other audiences connected this film.
But I always like to just have a moment to
focus on, you know, beyond this the simple entertainment factor.

(01:39:21):
What's something that we can take away with from this
film that that is, you know, speaks to humanity, speaks
to the human condition, beyond what we've already talked about.
I guess an example for me would be, like, what
I think is really important, and I think sometimes we
become numb to it is seeing moral choices hard and

(01:39:42):
moral choices made in stories. And I think it's especially
important for young people. I think back to a quote
about Star Wars. I think Lawrence Kasten made this that
I might be misquoting, and it was a quote about
you know what is a fairy tale? And they idea
that a fairy tale is something that we share with

(01:40:03):
young people that shows them like courage and morality can
get you through a wall of fire. And I think
we really don't always honor what these stories, how important
they are to that why these messages have to be
over told over and over. And when I think about
the end, the decision that's made with the Oxygen Destroyer,

(01:40:29):
and the somber tone of this film, I feel like
this is a great film because it's like digestible by
younger audience. This is something you could watch with a
preteen or a teenager and have some really serious discussion
about difficult choices, choices in the world where there isn't

(01:40:50):
an easy choice, there isn't a completely white and black
moral choice, and that those choices still need to be
made and that we all tackle them differently and what
we uh. I'd say, sometimes people sacrifice everything for the
greater good, which is unfortunately, I think something that you
know is not always the most popular message these days.

Speaker 5 (01:41:11):
So I'll throw it back to the three of you.

Speaker 4 (01:41:13):
Is there is there something that you feel like you
can take away from this film that that really speaks
to our world, us the human condition.

Speaker 5 (01:41:22):
Jack, Why don't you start us off?

Speaker 8 (01:41:26):
Hmm, Well, certainly I think empathy. You know how how
we mentioned that there were those in the movie who
questioned whether or not chilling Godzilla was the right thing
to do, and and the fact that like you kind

(01:41:48):
of just alluded to that. You know, when Godzilla is
defeated at the end of the movie, it's it's a
somber moment. It is not a try unfin like you
know roll credits.

Speaker 1 (01:42:02):
We won.

Speaker 8 (01:42:03):
I mean, it is we got our revenge against this thing.
There is none of that when they kill God's Allah. Instead,
the audience feels for him and kind of regrets that
it that this is has to be done and that
it's come to this. So I to me, like, just
having understanding and empathy even for the thing, the object

(01:42:30):
of your ire, the the even the thing that hurt
you is uh something that I I feel like it's
rarely kind of told in a lot of American horror
and sci fi. I mean, I guess sometimes, but it's
a little bit more heavy handed, and this was not
heavy handed about it. It's just there.

Speaker 4 (01:42:52):
These a notable absence of bloodlust in this film, which
is it's very interesting. Yeah, Matthew, what do you think
we could take away from this film?

Speaker 3 (01:43:06):
Yeah, so I this may come across sillier glibs, so
bear with me. I am struck by their attempt to
erect an giant electric fence to keep Godzilla out after
attempting to destroy him with fighter jets fils. The idea
that we could put up this physical barrier that was

(01:43:29):
going to keep out the perceived threat is a great
example of how putting up those those barriers is not
really helpful to us. It's a little blunt in the
presentation for the point I'm making, right, but the idea
that we're going to quote unquote build a wall and
keep out everyone that we don't want in our spaces

(01:43:51):
in our country is absurd.

Speaker 6 (01:43:53):
It's a little political here, but like.

Speaker 3 (01:43:57):
You can take it's a great example of how putting
up wall is not helpful.

Speaker 8 (01:44:00):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:44:01):
We should be opening doors and windows and engaging and
maybe someone should have asked Godzilla why he was so
upset tried some form of communication or something. He's clearly
trying to communicate with somebody, and it is. Yeah, So
opening up and being more willing to have interactions with

(01:44:23):
people creatures threats that are coming at us and figuring
out how to address it without being you know, violent
and exclusionary about it is something great that I think
you can take from the film, and something stories can
really help us do is mirrors and windows.

Speaker 6 (01:44:39):
Man, It's all about mirrors and windows.

Speaker 4 (01:44:42):
That's a great point, Ashley. You what are your thoughts.
What do you think we can take away from this film?

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
I think the biggest takeaway that I'm always struck by
is sometimes the most human thing to do is to
look beyond yourself. For all of these characters their faced
with a very hulking, real scary, cool version of how
they have to look beyond themselves and in a very

(01:45:08):
again i think unintentionally un American way. We have a
lot of tremendous characters who are willing to come together
and put their needs and their lives on the line
because it's going to be better for everyone else. It's
very antithetical to the idea of a war or a
global conflict in anyway, So the Mash fan in me

(01:45:28):
wants to say it's just the war as hell thing,
but I think it's a little bit more than that,
because even though it's a big dumb monster movie and
we love it because it's a big dumb monster movie,
at the end of the day, it ended up coming
together to do something that's best for everyone. And again,
I think the fact that you can do that through
the story of a dude to river suit is nothing
short of incredibly impressive.

Speaker 4 (01:45:50):
It's a great point, and it makes me think, as
you're saying that, if I think about each of the
main characters, everyone is forced to compromise, there's no one
who gets what they hope for, and everyone is left.

Speaker 5 (01:46:03):
She can traumatized by this event, you know, and also kind.

Speaker 8 (01:46:07):
Of adding to what Matt was saying too, like, I mean,
you know, arguably they developed Godzilla's land like they developed
on his path.

Speaker 5 (01:46:18):
Yeah, and you know, that's just.

Speaker 8 (01:46:20):
Another example of how he can kind of represent natural
disaster that we just can't have control and we might
build something, but nature can always bring it down.

Speaker 6 (01:46:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:46:31):
Yeah, the arrogance of human superiority is definitely on display. Well,
this has been a fantastic discussion. Thank you all three
of you for being part of it. We always love
to wrap up by giving people somewhere else to go.
And I know we've already suggested some other Godzilla films

(01:46:55):
that they can check out, but with our recommendations, I
love to open it up. It doesn't have to be
specific Godzilla. It can be Godzilla related, but it doesn't
even have to be Kaiju Related's just something that you
think might be enjoyable for our listeners. If they enjoyed
revisiting Godzilla or this discussion, what else do you think
that they would also enjoy that's worth checking out? Ashley,

(01:47:17):
I'll throw it back to.

Speaker 1 (01:47:18):
You, highly recommend checking out RuPaul's Drag Race season three
finale episode because as part of their challenges they have
to make basically a Godzilla music video. It's three of
the most iconic drag queens, most of them Mala Bas,
who dress up in draggy Godzilla costumes and destroy a
virtual city. So we got real serious here at the end.

(01:47:40):
So I am going to go the opposite and recommend
nothing but completed total camp.

Speaker 5 (01:47:45):
I love it. I love it. Matthew, what would you recommend?

Speaker 6 (01:47:52):
So speaking of Camp in the Godzilla theme.

Speaker 3 (01:47:55):
There's this relatively recent comic series called Godzilla, Monster Island
Summer Camp. It's a kid's comic series and it's basically
like what if you wanted to befriend the Kaiju instead
of fight them? And it's really cute and silly.

Speaker 6 (01:48:10):
So I thought it was fun.

Speaker 3 (01:48:11):
It's not going to be like a literary masterpiece, but
I think it's really enjoyable and the.

Speaker 6 (01:48:15):
Artists fun to look at if you want.

Speaker 3 (01:48:18):
Because we keep saying, because Ashley keeps saying people in
rubber suits. I just keep imagining Power Rangers monsters this
entire conversation. And I'm a huge power I'm a huge
Power Rangers fan. So the comics that have been out
are pretty good. But just go rewatch the nineties Power
Rangers cartoon. It's can't be and really silly, but it's

(01:48:41):
fun and it's very nineties.

Speaker 5 (01:48:44):
Excellent. And Jack, what would you recommend?

Speaker 8 (01:48:47):
I would definitely recommend if you're in the mood for
something old. Creature from twenty thousand fathoms because it is
the movie that the Godzilla people have said, uh directly
inspired Godzilla and would not Godzilla would not exist without
and you know, and knowing that originally they were thinking

(01:49:08):
of doing that, they you know, they had wanted to
do stop motion like what's in that movie for Godzilla
and King Kong. You know, I think that would It's
just it's interesting. It's interesting to watch that and to
compare and contrast, because I do think that Godzilla is
a far superior movie, but you know, this is its predecessor.
And I would also recommend a lot of the I

(01:49:31):
d W comics that are out, uh you know, matt
just Matthew just mentioned one, but uh here.

Speaker 5 (01:49:38):
There'd Be Dragons was really good.

Speaker 8 (01:49:40):
You know, I really like the comics format just allows
for a lot of experimentation and telling kind of else
world's god's little stories that you're not going to get
in in any of the movies or anything. And last,
I would recommend a little gem called Colossal, which is
a very very offbeat kaiju movie of American giant monster

(01:50:04):
movie starring Jason Sedeikis and and uh I forget who,
but it's it was Haway in it that was Ann
halfway yes yes, oh yeah right. And it's this like
dark comedy where these two people learn that if they
stand at a certain spot they like become like they

(01:50:26):
manifest a giant monster that they are sort of that
is sort of like their avatar on the other side
of the world. Wow, it's just it is a darkly
funny movie and it's it's interesting. It was way better
that I would expect it to be. I highly recommend
that movie excellent.

Speaker 4 (01:50:46):
Well, I'll throw out some quick recommendations as well. I
will say, if you have not watched Godzilla in nineteen
eighty five, we're going to be tackling that next year.
It's an anniversary coming up, so be sure to check
that one out and then and yeah, I'm sure you'll
be on that one.

Speaker 6 (01:51:04):
Check.

Speaker 8 (01:51:05):
I need it to be I need the new erl
version to be available, though, like on official Blu ray, it's.

Speaker 4 (01:51:10):
Apparent I'm gonna I'm gonna have to get all the
specifics from you. It's just for me.

Speaker 5 (01:51:13):
It's just a beloved video rental from my child.

Speaker 8 (01:51:18):
The first movie I ever saw in theaters. I was
three years old. My grandma took me to see it.
Oh wow, I have the poster from anyway. Sorry to interrupt, No,
not at all. The other thing that I would recommend
and maybe needs no recommendation. But it struck me when
we are talking about various themes, and that was the
original Watchman graphic novel. I feel like there's so many

(01:51:41):
elements that that type taps into, specifically, you know, fears
of nuclear holocaust, but also the the arrogance of humanity
and and and.

Speaker 5 (01:51:53):
The americanized view.

Speaker 4 (01:51:56):
There was one line specifically from the comedian where he
talks about America going crazy if they hadn't won Vietnam,
and it just spoke to me when I came up
in my mind when we were talking about the different
ways that this film would be created in I think
nineteen fifty four, if it was directed towards a initially

(01:52:19):
directed towards an American audience, I don't think we were
ready to confront, you know, the evils perpetuated in the war,
and might still not be ready to confront that. So
another another story that ties into those thoughts and themes.
The last thing I'll recommend is a fan base press recommendation.

(01:52:41):
There's a review for Godzilla Skate or Die number one
that we posted this year by our contributor Forest Status,
and just I don't know that I need to say
anything besides it's called Godzilla, Skate or Die.

Speaker 5 (01:52:56):
Check it out. Well worth your time?

Speaker 4 (01:53:00):
All right, Well, I definitely want everyone to know where
to find the three of you online because you do
a lot of cool things beyond just talk about Godzilla.
So let's give a shout out to where people can
find out find out more about your work, or find
you online. I want to go around once more, Ashley,
go ahead and start us off.

Speaker 1 (01:53:18):
You can find me on all social media at Ashley V. Robinson.
The v is very important. Ashley Robinson is a WNBA player.
I don't want to fight for SEO, although if you
know her, she lives in LA and I would like
to meet her, so tell her. You could find my
podcast Keek History Lesson where all fine pods are had.

(01:53:39):
We teach character histories in about an hour, and this
year we put out a Godzilla Mega episode where we
combined three previous Godzillas episodes. So if you're only here
for the monsters, I've got you covered. And then you
can find me hosting videos including a complete watch order
in both chronological.

Speaker 2 (01:53:58):
And a mythologue order on Godzilla.

Speaker 1 (01:54:01):
At pop first dot com. I am their video host
and producer. So if you go to YouTube dot com,
slash the pop verse. You can find my dumb face
there doing dumb stuff every single thing, dang day.

Speaker 4 (01:54:13):
Excellent. I recommend that you do check that out. Listeners, Matthew,
where can we find you and your work online?

Speaker 1 (01:54:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:54:21):
So I'm on all the socials that I use. I
have an account on basically all of them.

Speaker 3 (01:54:26):
I don't use all of them, but you can find
me at know the Matt that's my last name, noe
the Matt all over the place. I still post far
too much on Twitter, but also a blue Sky and
Facebook and the like. And if you need an easy
way to find me, you can always reach out to
me via the Graphic Medicine website which is Graphicmedicine dot org,

(01:54:47):
where I am one of our editors and on the
board for the organization.

Speaker 6 (01:54:51):
So yeah, excellent.

Speaker 5 (01:54:53):
And Jack, where can we find you in your work online?

Speaker 8 (01:54:56):
I am a comics librarian on pretty much all the
social media accept for Twitter, and Folks can also reach
me at Jackphoenix dot com. Shoot me an email or whatever.
I'm that at updating it, but I do still get
the emails on the messages.

Speaker 6 (01:55:15):
Excellent.

Speaker 4 (01:55:18):
Well, if you want to find me online, You can
find me at Comic book Slayer on Twitter. I'm at
Comic Book Sniffer on Instagram. But I also want to
be sure to encourage you to like fan Base Press
and the Fan Based Weekly on Facebook and Twitter. You
can also subscribe to the fan Base Weekly podcast on

(01:55:38):
Apple Podcasts. You can rate the show, leave reviews. Those
are very helpful for us to get more visibility get
new listeners, so we're very appreciative of those.

Speaker 5 (01:55:49):
But I would also say don't forget.

Speaker 4 (01:55:51):
You can email us comments, questions, anything that you want
to send as feedback, or even better, you can leave
us a voicemail at eight one eight eight five zero
three seven sixty five.

Speaker 5 (01:56:03):
That's our official voicemail.

Speaker 4 (01:56:06):
You can leave a message and we would love to
include an upcoming message, an upcoming podcast, tell us what
your thoughts are on Godzilla seventy years out.

Speaker 5 (01:56:17):
But yeah, we're looking forward to hearing from all of you.

Speaker 4 (01:56:21):
I also want to give a shout out to biolumin Press.
Biolumin Press is our sponsor and an independent press for
all things monstrous, mysterious and haunting, founded in twenty thirteen
by non binary artists kaj E K. Biolumin Press creates
illustrative stories and still wonder and convey the emotional tones
of the human condition. Kaj's flagship comic, Warhead, is a

(01:56:45):
surreal story about the struggle of carving out a creative career,
and it's available in a collected box set trilogy to
commemorate the end of its arc. You can find the
Warhead Trilogy at bioluminpress dot com, at Hive Gallery in
downtown Los Angeles, and at Golden Apple Comics. Follow along
at k Underscore, Sonzo and biolumin Press on Instagram and

(01:57:07):
Etsy for more. Thank you for listening everyone. This has
been Brian Dyllan for fan Base Press, where we celebrate
fandoms and create new ones.

Speaker 5 (01:57:16):
Until next time.

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