Werewolves

Unleash the beast and join us as we howl into the fascinating world of werewolves in pop culture! From their ancient folklore origins to their terrifying transformations on the big screen, we’ll explore the myths, legends, and iconic portrayals of these shapeshifting creatures. Discover how werewolves have evolved over time, from classic horror films to modern TV shows and beyond. Whether you're a fan of The Wolf Man, Teen Wolf, or the werewolves of Twilight, this episode dives deep into the enduring appeal of these legendary creatures. Additional writing and research by Diego Anthony Nuñez

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
In the wild, wolves are majestic, they're elusive, they're seldom
a danger to people. But in folklore, the where wolf
stands as a terrifying creature. Now it's the perfect creature
to talk about this holiday season. But Ashley, Yeah, why
does the idea of turning into a wolf, from a

(00:33):
human to a wolf stir such dread and fascination in
the realm of horror?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
I think it hits on the same thing as vampires.
I think the idea of being a wolf is a
it's kind of sexy.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
You think being a werewolf is sexual. I do think
the idea of being a wolf is kind of sexy.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Take disagreeable, I take do agree Because you're turning into
an apex predator, You're turning into a beautiful creature. You're
allowed by association to do things that are taboo to
human beings. Like it touches on all those same things. Yeah,
And if you look back at a lot of folklore,

(01:08):
from Celtic folklore to indigenous North American folklore to African folklore,
there's always like a transformation into an animal, whether it's
a skin walker, like, there's a ton of traditions around that,
and so I think it's just a story that's been
baked into our brains ever since wolves and big creatures
started sitting with us around the fire. I really think

(01:30):
it's just this thing that kind of we're like, ooh scary, but.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Ooh fun, I mean, ooh fun for you. I don't
think skin ripping away to reveal fur is fun.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, that's a mythological debate, because that's not always That's
not always.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
The name of this podcast. Debate.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Honestly, I embrace it. Let's fight about crampas next.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Well, you're wrong, because the name of this podcast is
geek History Lesson. Welcome everyone, I'm Jason in Mean and I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Ashley Victoria Robinson. Welcome or should I say ooh to
your mind university?

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
I've had that one story for hours because you have
skided with a wolves do run pack discovered onto the
podcast where we take one character contract or mythological being
from pop culture and teach you everything you need to
know about them in about an hour. And today we're
doing were Wolves one because it's.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
A spooky holidays pokyooky too, and also because jolly horror.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
We could talk about the long history of horror in
Christmas traditions. Maybe we'll talk about the Yuel Cats someday.
But also because very early next year, a potential first
blockbuster of twenty twenty five is the Wolfman Universal Monster's remake.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, and also I will say that our schedule just
gotten the waiter in October.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Jason was busy making the TV that's right, that's right.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
We also assist though this by our lovely research assistant,
Diego Anthony Nuniez, who did some heavy lifting on this one.
Let's hop into the ten cent origin. It's gonna be
a little bit different than our normal tencent origin. Ashley,
would you like to give our listeners a brief what's
up of the what that is?

Speaker 2 (03:07):
The ten cent Origin is the first part of the
podcast where Professor Jason is going to break down all
the hoo'sits and what's its galore. Uh So, if you
ever go to a monster themed cocktail party and someone's like,
why are you dressed like a wolf? You can have
a really great answer.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Okay, So this again, because we're going to talk about
the entirety of werewolves. There's no one's specific werewolf book.
Settle down, nerds. Yeah, this is just kind of the
basics of a warlfs. We all have an established baseline,
if you will. So the werewolf is an individual who
can shape shift into a wolf or a hybrid human

(03:42):
like wolf like creature. Okay, there's anthromorphic wolf just kind
of depends on. Yeah. It is either caused by a curse,
a bite, or a scratch. Sometimes the curse can be
a bit or a scratch. It usually happens on the
night of a full moon when the individual transforms into
a werewolf. This is based on and inspired by a

(04:03):
real life medical condition known aschanthropy, where an individual beliefs
they can actually transform into a wolf. There is also
another medical condition where sometimes humans just have hair on
every part of their skinical disition.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
That's what was believed to be like the bearded woman
in the circus.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
And stuff like that is also another inspiration for people
thinking that, oh they are warwolf. Other diseases have factories
disease at the belief, such as rabies, perferria. Oh wow,
that's a word that means a lot to Jason Piper.
Triconosis and werewolves also is such a real life belief
that such similar to witch trials, there were werewolf trials,

(04:43):
and the werewolf as a concept has been spread through folklore,
religious beliefs, literature, and film for over a millennium.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
See our Van Helsing episode for more on werewolves.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yes, and if you want more on us, I just
want to tell you guys, Hey, I want to throw
out the war wolf flag. Oh that's not a flag,
that's just a shot. This is a sound.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
This is an audio medium.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Okay, so you know it is the holidays, it's the
spooky holidays, as we announced. But if you want to
have some fun holidays, come on over to patreon dot
com slash John Wing I want announce over there we're
gonna be doing the first Justice League slash Teen Titans crossover.
What the hell does that mean?

Speaker 2 (05:22):
It's never been done before, It's never been done before
the first one.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
We're the first ones. Uh. We are going to watch
do a special episode over at the Justice Level on
our Patreon at the Justice Level for all those patrons
and above, We're gonna watch Teen Titans go the movie. Now,
why are we watching that movie? Because it is a
movie that uh, you know, the Just League shows up
in the Teen Titans. But where are the first Justice
League Teen Titans crossover. But we're gonna do a crossover

(05:47):
between our Patreon exclusive podcast, Talking Titans, which is Diego
Anthony Nuniaz and Ashley Victoria Robinson True and also on
that episode, this is his crossover. It's gonna be myself
and Jeremy Skinner, the Jason and Jeremy John About Just
League Patreon Excooze process. So both podcasts are teaming up
for a very special episode of covering Teen Titans Go
the movie, which you can only hear over at Patreon

(06:08):
dot com slash job.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
I didn't realize that Talking Titans was the three name
podcast and Jason and Jeremy John About Just's League with.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
The two name podcasts. So if you want an extra
special thing that'll come out round Christmas e times, you
can enjoy it during your holiday travels. Kind over joy
ad free episodes. It's a geekish lesson exclusive discord all
kinds of stuff like that. Come over to Patreon dot
com slash jah Join the book club. Please join the
book club. It's much fun. Okay, now let's get back
to were Wolves.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
I guess alright, you're gonna get so sick of that
by the end.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Of this, please. Uh. Werewolves are sort of fascinating because
they are believed to be a real thing in the
real world, just like witches y, just like Bigfoot. Just
sure yep. In fiction, a lot of times werewolves stories
were informed by a lot of what was happening during history.
So I will try to provide historical contact context and

(07:00):
how it is informed by the era. Now, there at
least three known archetypes in terms of werewolves. There is
the victim, who is an innocent bystander who is cursed
and transformed unwillingly. There is the damned, who is a
violent person that is cursed as a means of punishment.
And there is the warrior, who is an individual who

(07:23):
takes the guise of a wolf as an aid to battle.
Now we're gonna talk about something that I love to
talk about on this podcast, and that's some damn literature. Yay, Ashley.
Would you like to take a wild guess because I
have read this thing, Sure one if I give it
away several times, I have a guess. And I did

(07:43):
not realize that this was considered to be a possible
first reference of a werewolf. I was surprised by this
actually when Diego presented this in research, and I've read
this before.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
I have a guess based on the based on.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
What you just said. Okay, what do you think is
the first possible reference, first known reference to a possible
werewolf in literature.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
So it's it's either based on what I know about
Jason and Jason's literary leanings, it's either the Bible, okay
or the Odyssey.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
Incorrect on both counts.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Oh, Gilgamesh.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
It is Gilgamesh. Ah, Yes, it is the epic. That
was my Yeah, that was my number three of Gilgamesh.
And if you do not know what it is, that
is the oldest known piece of literature from thirteen hundred
b C. That's before common era, just use it. It's
what sided get.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Your self reading Gilgamesh. One, it's beautiful. Two, it's pretty
accessible in modern translation.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Also would make an awesome movie.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Three it's kind of the birth of what becomes the
hero's journey.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Now. Gilgamesh was a hero of the poem epic of
ancient Mesopotamia, which is a region of East Asia. Look
at the map, people. Gilgamesh rejects a potential lover after
learning that she turned her x into a wolf.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Honestly good for her. It's giving sirce vibes.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
And this is believed to be the oldest known reference
to the idea of the transformation. Now, the first appearance
of a warrewhelf. By the way, also just go read Yogomeshia.
It's awesome.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, and if you're not familiar with ancient goad, go
read some articles again.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Would make an awesome like movie trilogy. Absolute. So the
first appearance of a werewolf in Western literature was metamorphosis.
Love it of it. Yes, I was gonna say, ovid,
I didn't know.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
I'm not going to pretend like either of the which
pronunciation is actually correct by ancient Greek standards.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
But I've always heard all this. It's early. I'm going
to pronounce a lot of names wrong. So just buckle up, everybody. Now,
that epic poem chronicles the history of the world from
its creation to the deification of Julius Caesar in a
mythical historical framework, meaning it's mostly based around history with
some embellishment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, that massive epic is
comprised of over fifteen books that have two hundred and

(09:58):
fifteen mix and in all that there is a story
where Zeus got a thunder and rock and roll in
Greek mythology. I don't know they believe with the rock
and roll things. So that's that's an embelocement from is
there kisser.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Of absolutely everyone, whether they want to or not.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Zeus he visits Leekon for dinner.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Great now liecn oh lican see you Now, I look
this licanthrope.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
I understand. But I look this up and everybody says
that according to Google, really he's pronounced now it's it's
written l y c a o N. Google Translate says
it's leaking. Well, then I found a couple of interviews
that said leacoln Well.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
I apologize and I defer to you, and I thank
you for doing your appropriate level of research.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
That could be wrong, but that's what Google told me.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Look, look all of these, even the ones that we're
pretty sure about the pronunciations of all of these are
ancient words that.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Nobody actually said. But I believe it. Yeah it is
like it. But yeah, but I saw I found it's probably.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
The root word that became like it. So I apologize
for that.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Uh now, Lichen, now you've got me all A. Beth fettled.
Sorry God, this this spooky holiday episode, like in testing,
the God of Thunder kills and cooks his own son, Nike,
I picked the wrong episode for too many. I feel
like I'm hopping through ancient Greek class.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
What you're doing is and of course this is an
audio medium, so no one can see is you yourself
are solely transforming into a werewolf. So your human brain
is leaching out, and this is the wolf coming forth.
So everyone have some freaking respect.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
I just feel bad because this is an awesome episode
and I'm just funneling. You're absolutely saying, yes you are.
So this person cooks his own son who has a name,
serving him for dinner to see if the God of
Thunder is in fact all knowing and would recognize the
taste of human flesh. So to brack that up for you,
lichen Leacoln whatever the hell their damn name is, Okay,

(11:52):
we love cooked a meal of their own son and
is going to serve it to Zeus, basically to be like, hey,
do you recognize the taste the human flesh? I heard
you might like it some Christmases. Obviously, upset by such shenanigans,
Zeus transforms leacoln into a wolf and killed his offspring,

(12:13):
but restored his son to life for such a horrible deed.
According to legend, this became a habit of Zeus, as
he would turn men into wolves as punishment for the wrongdoings,
and the curse would lift after a decade on the
condition that the victim did not taste human flesh within
that time. So if you got turned into a wolf,
as long as you needn't eat a human, you get
turned back into a human.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Very classic mythological moralizer.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
But if they did eat a human, they'd stay as
a wolf. The other other white yeah, humans, Yes, it's
the pink meat, all right. So let's talk about this
of monster creatures, pros and crowns Ashley of becoming a werewolf?
Is this a good curse? Let's hear the let's some
pros of being a werewolf with some cons of being
a werewolf.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
I think it's a great curse.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Like I do.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
I've always thought werewolves were really, really interesting.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
I'm gonna make you say the cons first.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Then cons massively painful.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Big con. You might eat everybody, you know.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, but you could simply move away, Especially in the
ancient world. You could move like ten miles away and
you'd be fine.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
What happens if you eat your mom?

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Most people didn't go that far. That'sr go fifty miles
away and you'd be fine.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
So you're probably eating your mom an ancient Greek, so
you a con.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
To be fair, your expectancy's like forty.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Con you're gonna eat your mom.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Con you're gonna eat your mom massively painful. Three As
a woman, there's a lot of societal norms about being hairy,
so that's upsetting. Con. Well, it's the thing where it's like, well,
what's the healing factor on this?

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Are we immortal? Like? And I got questions. I don't know,
I don't know. It depends on the story.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
So to me, there's a little con. You're probably gonna
wake up naked in the forest. Possible con depending on
the mythology, you're not gonna remember what you did when.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
You're aware of more cons than pros.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
No, pros get to be a wolf, uh pro massively powerful.
Pro probably have a healing factor. Pro probably have immortality,
and pro you always get some kind of crossover, so
you get kind of the Wolverine of it all, where

(14:19):
you get some level of like, heightened smell, heightened sense
of sight in your human life. So that's five pros
and four con to being a werewolf of Silhouin.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
If you say so. I don't agree with this. I
don't agree with this at all. I think this is
some werewolf propaganda that's coming onto this podcast. Fight me,
let's talk about it. Well, I'm not going to fight
you because you might be a werewolf, okay, and you
don't care about eating your mom. So here we go.
Let's talk about some more literature.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
My almost five thousand miles away, I feel confident about
meatological literature debates.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
That's what the name name of this podcast. It's a
logical debate pronounced old names badly because it's too early
in the morning. All right, here we go. Let's talk
about Saga of the vol Songs. Sure everyone knows that. Yes,
it's a late thirteenth century collection of stories of old
Nordic legends about the vol Song clan. No fun fact.
Oh I did not know about this. I also did
not before the research was presented to me. But then

(15:10):
I started reading into some of the legends that were
involved in this, and I think you might some of
you people might be more familiar with this than you think.
You just don't know that. It's called saga the vol song.
Oh okay now. The Sorer contains multiple references based around
the werewolf, including a first known reference to a she wolf. Yes,
also includes a legend of the wolf skin. One story

(15:32):
involved Sigmund and his brothers who ended up captured by
King Segear. King Segar is married to Sigmund's sister, Singing
h She pleads for her husband to let her brother
suffer rather than to be outright executed, which provided an
opportunity for her brothers to make an escape plan. Now,

(15:52):
the brother's feet are imprisoned in a large tree trunk
and left out into the woods. It was the thirteenth century. Yeah,
that sounds like a good time to be I don't
know about you, but anyways, Now, during the night, a
she wolf would attack and kill each brother, and one
by one they were all killed and tell Sigmund was
the last one left. Now, Signy, devastated by the news

(16:13):
of her brothers, gives her servant honey and instructs Sigmund
to smear it onto his face and in his mouth.
When the she wolf arrives for her last meal, she
starts to lick the honey off of Sigmund's face and mouth,
reaching her tongue into Sigmund's mouth grows. Sigmund bites down
and jerks away. The she wolf panics as she tries

(16:35):
to break free, using her strength to break the tree
trunk holding down Sigmund, and he makes his escape. Now
within the sog, we also learned about the magic of
wolf skins. Sigmund seeking revenge on this king for killing
all his brothers, and stick aim In in a tree truck
and force it in to make out with a she
wolf recruit. It no sounds hot to be sien fault Lee,

(16:56):
son of King Sagir, who wants to overthrow his father.
Now an attempt to harden the boy, he helps them
kill many men and take their bounty. The two come
across the home where they discover two men asleep with
a wolf skin hung over them, and it is said
that you can only shed this skin every tenth day.

(17:17):
The two take the skins, put them on, and to
their surprise, Sigmund and the boy find that they cannot
take them off. They turn into wolves, running off into
the forest, killing many men, and after the ten days
the two take off their wolf skins and burn them
into a fire.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
There is so much Tolkien that comes directly from this.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
There's just a lot. There's a lot of you know,
we've all heard Sigmund, We've all heard you know Cigare.
There's a lot of BeO Wolf in this.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
There's a lot of Beowolf in this.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Now let's talk about the wolf skin of this. He
is the fact that you can use a totem and
transform transform into a whirlolf like a weapon, like a
power up. This is interesting. This is like the first
time I ever heard of this. Like, you put on
this like wolf scanning, you become a werewolf.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
No, And there's a direct line between this and a
lot of superhero is. Like think about Prince Adam and
the sword who turns into he man. Like, you're absolutely
right calling this like a power tote them all.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Right Now, the cloacal evitation, we get to the introduction
of Christianity. Yay, how fun and it's a good time,
and it recontextualizes the werewolf as a myth. Yeah, as
a pagan curse by that dastardly Satan remember him.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Look, I'm gonna say the pagans have all the fun.
That's where Christmas trees come from.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
I will say the GHL episode on Satan's one of
our best.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
If you would like a GL episode on Satan, please
request on threads that geekis realized that in.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Terms of storytelling, werewolves are depicted technically, typically through mental
illness or being demonic, usually giving stories to the sympathetic werewolf,
a tortured soul trapped within the beast that can only
be saved by the grace of God. Now there is
a story called Topakra. This is a hell of a
lesson for me everybody. To Apocryphia Hibernica by Gerald of Wales. Yes, yes,

(19:06):
this is another collection of stories, including one that features
the werewolves of Ossery, which was a kingdom in Ireland
based around the legends of warriors that were constantly compared
to wolves. An unnamed priest encounters a wolf in the woods,
and in his astonishment, he is told by the wolf
to not be afraid and talks to him about God.

(19:26):
Urging further explanation, the wolf explains he's actually a man
who was cursed by a saint. His lover, who was
also cursed, is sick and he begs the priest for
communion and the last rites for his wife. The priest
decides to help the sick female wolf. In gratitude, the
wolf provides a number of prophecies about the future of Ireland.

(19:48):
Ireland excuse me and its English invaders. Now, this story
is noteworthy for a couple of reasons. It' showcases that
a werewolf can talk, the were wolves are not fully transformed,
and it is revealed that they are human beings under
their wolf skins. They are Christianized werewolves, created in the
image of God who changed their appearance but retain their

(20:09):
human intelligence and their forms underneath, which was pretty new
actually for these legends.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
This is also around the same time that when Christianity
became prevalent in the United what would become the United
Kingdom and Great Britain, a lot of Celtic gods and
goddesses became saints, like Brigid, for example, became one of
the patron saints of Ireland. And if you ever are
interested in reading about Celtic mythology, anything with Hibernica or

(20:35):
hybridic come at the end is going to have all
them fun stories in it.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Well. Speaking of fun stories, fun thories, and stories. Huh.
You know thories are made by thorps. I love AUTHORI
got a thunder. We're finally to the sixteenth century, everyone's
favorite centry.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Honestly for literature. The sixteenth centuries banger.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
But here's the real kicker of the sixteenth century. It's
time for the werewolf trials. Heck yeah, So get your
lawyer suit ready, get your objections ready, objection, because we're
going to talk about the werewolf trials right after this GJL.
We're back. We're talking about werewolves. That's a spooky holiday season.

(21:16):
And I'm ready to mispronounce some more names. Here we go.
Oh boy, I forgot about that one. It's called a render.
Welcome to the sixteenth century, everybody.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yay, fifteen hundreds tutors are taking over England.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
We love to see it. Diseases rampant, people wear wigs
on their heads, and rats are everywhere.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
An you better love lice in that bed.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
In the late fifteenth century, werewolf trials started spreading through Europe.
Oh we hate that, and they hit its peak in
the seventeenth century, and they finally subsided in the eighteenth century.
This was fueled by conditions we talked about like licanthropy, syndrome,
and hypertrichosis. Now like thropy, damn this lesson, This is

(22:02):
my werewolf curse exactly. This is you know, I will,
I will just throw a thing like this is. This
is President Jason screwing. Pass Jason over because pass Jason
did a lot of research making sure he knew how
to pronounce everything, and he even put stuff in this
lesson to make sure that I knew how to pronounce
thisself and present Jason is letting that Pass Jason down.
It's okay.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
We our listeners are amazing, incredible people, and they understand
we've mispronounced many things failings.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
I don't know her. I love Felix. Like anthropy is
a rare condition where an individual suffers delusions believing they
are enduring a metamorphosis into an animal. Hyper Trichosis is
a condition where a person is imbued with long, silky
light colored hair around the face, ears, shoulders, and nose.
This is where the common condition you might have heard

(22:50):
of it called before werewolf boy. M hmm. Now, combining
these two ailments helped fuel the delusion that werewolves were real,
because guess what, in medical conditions you can have more
than one ailment. Wait why Yep, it's very true. And
as a person who just recently wrote on a medical
television show, you might see that happen in a lot
of episodes.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Tell me more, no spoilers here, Please watch Watson Lot.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
On CBS January twenty twenty five. Okay, so this is
what helped propagate the woochhows were a lot of people
with fur on their face, basically hair on their face,
and you know, they suffered from delusions that they thought
they were an animal.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
Or they probably needed to scapegoat so they wouldn't be
thrown in jail until they blamed the nice lady who
lived at the end of the street.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
The whirl of trials, in many ways, were a way
for people to rationalize that those that were eating flesh
like cannibals and random killings. It was also an inkling
of our first known serial killers in history. The most
famous example is Peter Stoop, who claimed the devil had
given him a magical girdle which allowed him to practice

(23:56):
black magic and transform into a mighty wolf. This is
what you said to justify his insatiable lust for flesh.
He ate goats, he ate lambs, he ate sheep, he
ate women, he ate children, including his own son, and
to add to the holidays spooky seasony uh Stoop was

(24:18):
executed on October thirty first, fifteen eighty nine.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
I also have to say, I cannot believe there has
not been like an HBO mini series or a movie
about mister stoop Yep. It's kind of a legendary story.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
This his stoop reinvigorated the werewolf story, which, because you imagine,
was dying out due the werewolf trials. And this is
the kind of the closest thing you kind of get
to a true crime novel. It's called The Damnable Life
and Death of One Stoop Peter. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
I also think it's wild that you started with lamb
and goat and I was like, that's not that weird,
and then jumped.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Right to women, children.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
His own child. Yes, it was a sharp escalation.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Well let me let's get into this because let's talk
about this because you know, hindsight is always twenty twenty, right.
We can look at these people from the fifteen, sixteen, seventeen,
eighteenth century. Yeah, and I think a lot of times
we can be like, what stupid idiots, But if you know,

(25:15):
I think people will say that about us five hundred
years from now. Like hindsight is always twenty So I
don't think we can immediately throw these people under the
bus that for going through werewolf trials. Now, of course,
there was a lot of prejudice, and there was a
lot of just you know, people that just you know,
village elders that just wanted to kill people left right
and center. But like I mean, I want, I want
to talk about the you know, the understanding of medical
science today that has changed the course around werewolves. I

(25:38):
think now, of course, we see a person with a
lot of hair on their face, and we don't automatically
go wear a wolf.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
No, we go, oh, they probably have yeah, werewolf syndromer.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
But I also, like I said, I don't like throwing
people in the past and just saying they're dumb. No.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
And I think a really easy example of that is
when you look at ancient religions that had a god
of the sun, and you're like, yeah, the sun gives
you everything that makes complete sense. Even though most people
today don't worship us on God, this is the same
thing like this man, this man also had a disease
whether it's just straight up psychopathy or maybe King James madness.

(26:17):
And at the time, particularly when you consider let's not
get too deep into the historical and anthropological examination, but
when you consider that this is just emerging from the
dark ages, so humanity is really regaining a lot of
lost knowledge and intelligence. I don't think it's a huge leap.
It is very easy to look at this and be like, yeah,
look at these dummies, But if you think about it
for five seconds, it's not a huge I actually.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Think it's pretty obvious. Where like when you have a
guy like Peter Stoob and he does all this stuff
like eating his own son, yeah, I could totally understand.
And especially when the main communication mode of that time
was the traveling merchants would tell his story about the
next village over or Bard yeah yeah, or something like that,

(26:58):
and I could understand where like if you heard this
story and then somebody in your village is a cannibal,
how you would immediately be like werewolf?

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Well, or it becomes the game of telephone, right like
one person tells one person, tells one turfs and tells
one person and then there are tiny embellishment and then
by the time it gets three villages over there were work.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
And suddenly Peter Stoop is thirty feet tall and is
growling at the moon. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
I can also understand the will to be like, that's
not a normal person, because because being a serial killer
is not a normal thing to do, we do the
same thing where we look at contemporary serial killers and
we're like, well, I'm not like that. We're always looking
to excuse that type of behavior.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
All right, So let's get back to barking at the moon.
Oh oh boy, I forgot about that. Let's head into
the nineteenth century. Ooh, what a leap, hundreds and hundreds
of years. Let's do it. Well, we were in the
eighteenth century, but yeah, yeah, werewolves pivoted back into the
forefront of fiction. Now, modern literature and the rise of
cinema breathe new life into werewolves in a way that

(27:55):
it became a juggermut juggernaut to this day that has
basically not stopped. Starting with the Brothers Grim's fairy Tales.
The Brothers Grim, of course, were German storytellers that created
an anthology of classic fairy tales. You know these fairy tales.
If you do not know the Brothers Grim. They wrote
some things like snow White, Sleeping Beauty, the Frog, Prince
Hansel and Gretel. Yes they could. They could have a

(28:16):
hell of a lawsuit to Disney if they wanted to.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, they're also the English translation of The Brothers Grim
is what is responsible for making it an evil step
mother instead of straight up and evil mother.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah. Notably, they wrote a few fairy tales about where
wolves and wolves, generally known as the Wolf in the Fox,
The Wolf and the Seven Kids, and also famously Little
Red Bridehood. The wolves in these stories are portrayed as
conniving and villainous, and in the story of the Wolf
in the Fox, the wolf cohorts the fox and defeating him,

(28:47):
otherwise the fox himself would be eaten by the wolf.
The story ends with the wolf getting a taste of
his own medicine as he ends up trapped in the
cellar belonging to a farmer. The wolf eats everything in sight,
but becomes too fat to make it a escape and
is killed by the farmer. Now, let's talk about the
wolf story that everybody knows. Little Red Riding Hood. It's
a little girl who's on our way to visit her

(29:08):
ailing Grammy, the mischievous wolf discovers where Granny lives, eats
Granny alive, takes her place dressed up as Granny right.
He then makes his move to eat the little girl
whole as well. Now, interestingly, the original story ends with
the wolf eating Little Red riding Hood. In case you
didn't know that, the brothers Graham introduces a woodsman that
saves a day, cutting the wolf open while he was

(29:29):
asleep to free Granny and Little Red, who are somehow
still alive. They magic. They then fill his stomach with
stones as the wolf awakes to make his escape, and
he follows over and dies. This version of Little Red
riding Hood becomes a story about the folly of greed
and gluttony, and similar to our vampire episode That's Gjail
episode four sixty five. Go take a listen of it.

(29:52):
Where wolves were also featured in Penny Dreadfuls. Yeah. For
those are not aware, Penny Dreadfolds are horror pulp magazines
of the nineteenth century that told horror stories. There's a
story in that called Wagner the Werewolf. And this is
very German. It's it's w e h R Yeah by G. W. M. Rudnold.

(30:13):
He is the first English text that has printed werewolf.
Oh cool, that's so cool. I bet that it's worth
a lot of money. As the character name, the story
is about an old man that makes a devil's bargain
to regain his youth and becomes immortal. However, he must
drink a potion that will turn him into a werewolf

(30:34):
once a month. The story in particular is famous for
its truly horrific and graphic detail of the werewolf transformation,
using descriptors like the man becoming elongated and shedding his
human flesh.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
You know, considering this is a once a month curse,
it's amazing to me that were wolf and like anthropy
stories are almost always in the beginning centering men.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
That's true. I just leave it at that. This transformation
is iconic because it influences a lot of what we
will see in the films that come in the twentieth century.
In the late nineteenth century, we started to see some
more revitalation of the werewolf myth, with more female werewolves.
They were portrayed as beautiful and alluring, with the physical
attributes of yellow eyes and white fur, usually serving as

(31:21):
a temptress of some kind, and in the case of
the Wolf of Coxtopchin, absolutely I hope that's how it's pronounced.
A man who is widowed with children meets a woman
who agrees to marry him. Then all hail breaks loose
as she manages to take the man's heart literally and
eats one of his children, while the other child vanquishes

(31:42):
this female werewolf. Then there's another one called the other Side,
which is a bit more ambiguous. This ties into the
notion of the she wolf, who is named Lilith, which
might be a very familiar demon name to.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
You, Yeah, especially if you're a family with Christian Judeo Christian.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
And it's hinted that Lilith, the she wolf is a
demon herself and her wolf keeper may also be Satan.
Remember him wanted ghl on him?

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah yeah, requested on threads Agi Kiss realized that although
this might be a matter of interpretation, but it's elluded
that this keeper might be safe. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah. Lillith serves as a temptress who is after a
young boy named Gabriel, trying to allure him to the
Other side, which is to imply the other Side is
turning him to a wolf. Uniquely, Gabriel goes to an
experience of uncertainty, as he has a lot of dreams
and hallucinations and is uncertain about what is real. So
but let's let's let's settle this right now, Ashley, he

(32:38):
is are she wolves cooler than were wolves? You did
make an illusion? Should were wolves be female?

Speaker 2 (32:44):
I mean, should anything be anything? I don't think they
have to be, but I.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Think could anything be anything? No?

Speaker 2 (32:51):
I think I just I say that. I say that
to be tried, of course, but I also say that
because we're so far from the creation of these archetypes.
Like it's interesting to deconstruct myths, right, But I think
when you sort of look at the baseline structure and
you think about a woman's natural cycle, it makes more sense.
Men go through a twenty four hour cycle. Women go
through a thirty day cycle. It just makes a little

(33:13):
more sense, especially with the full moon and gravity. And
please don't make me explain menstruation to you. I just
think it makes more sense for it to be women.
But I understand the hair thing is what makes it
a more masculine tracks. We think of men as being
hairier creatures.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Now it's time to get to the twentieth century. Probably
I'm familiar with that one. Are you I was alive?
I think you lived in it briefly? Probably my least
favorite centry, really, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Hot take geek history lesson on threads. What's your least
favorite century?

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Your least favorite century? Because I gotta say, I don't
know if the twenty first is going to be up there,
the tenth is going to be high in the list.
I'm just gonna throw that off. King are there times?
Let's talk about film and the impact that it had
on werewolves. In nineteen thirteen, we had our first feature
film about werewolves. I was not a talkie. They would
say appropriately called Silently the were Wolf. I love it. Unfortunately,

(34:05):
this film has been lost to time sad face, because
it was destroyed in the nineteen twenty five nineteen twenty
four Universal Studios lot fire.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Oh wow wow.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
The plot of this film involved a Navajo woman who
becomes a witch after believing her husband, a white man,
has abandoned her.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Okay, I have to say, that sounds really cool, but
I bet this was incredibly culturally insensitive.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Probably so, but let me finish the plot please. She
raises her daughter to hate white men, teaching her how
to transform into a wolf and take vengeance upon white settlers.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Remake this movie. Remake it right now, green Light, green Light,
green Lights.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
This film was part of a whole slew of films
around the time. They were about demonizing non white people
and showcasing a very skewed perception of Indigenous legends and culture.
So you were probably right, this is very probably, very
culturally insensitive. But I think you could update this the baseline.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yes, you give it to some nice indigenous film, but
like the baseline idea of this, the premise is interesting.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
Now, of course we're gonna get to the first werewolf
film produced by Universal Studios. It's not The Wolf Man,
what it's nineteen thirty Five's The Way Wolf of London. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, And so, if you, like myself, are a fan
of an American werewolf in London, here's the Inspill.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
It was the first depiction of a werewolf biting another
person and infecting them oh as.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Opposed to occur or something magical juice.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
To the budget and the lack of special effects, this
is the film that solidified the overall look of a
wolf man, a man who looks more man than wolf
yep yep yep, where the creature was a hybrid of
man with a wolf like features. The film was released
around the same time as The Mark of the Vampires,

(35:55):
starring Dracula himself, Bela Lugosi and the bride the Frankstenstein,
which is why is believed the case why this film
has been kind of ignored.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Well because Brita frames sign really has a much more
stronger cultural impact for sure.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
Six years later, Universe was like, you know what we
like to do, reboot stuff, So let's reboot them werewolves
into nineteen forty one's The wolf Man, and they said, do.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
You think Batman's good at reboots? Let us show you
something kids, And.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
Everybody at the time was like, what's a Batman? I
don't know what's a reboot? And The wolf Man? Nineteen
forty one's wolf Man is what sparked the werewolf surge
in pop culture. This is the film which has been
the fundamentals of basic storytelling of werewolves going forward, like
transforming during the full moon, the lack of memory when
one becomes a wolf man, and it also added an
element of tragedy. Now what do you think it is?

(36:47):
Why was it the power of the film and this
film specifically Ashley, that's sort of solidified because basically everything
we know about war wolves comes from this movie. What
do you think it is about? Because we've had lots
I've just been I've been talking about literature for almost
thirty seven minutes. Now, I've been mispronouncing names of literature
for thirty seven Welcome to literature history lesson. That's what

(37:08):
this episode has been about.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
But what I can't wait tweet to our Little Women episode?

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Why do you think? Oh man? I would love to
marry Louise Elcott. Can we get Bob Odenkirk on that episode? Great?
Can we get Florence Pugh on that episode? Probably not,
but we can probably get Bob Odenkirk. Great. We're really
fun fat Now we're like one degree of We're like
one degree separation. But it's a big it's a big leap.
It's a big leap. But we know a person that
knows if we get Bob Odenker, we'll do it.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Ever, can we please only talk to him about the
three scenes a little that he's ind because he's honestly
great in it.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
I would hijack that podcast and talk about I think
you should leave with Tim Robinson and his one amazing sketch,
the entire t and the birthday. Yep, but what why
do you think it's this movie that is everything we
know about werewolves? Because you know.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
I have such an answer for you.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
Well, I was gonna say, think about Greek mythology and
the Yeah, we still talk about Greek mythology, but everything
about Where Wolls is this movie? Why is it?

Speaker 2 (38:04):
So if you look at most of our modern pop culture,
even the previously mentioned Batman, you can trace so much.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Batman we exactly well, he's a psychopath.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
We talked about psychopathy earlier.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
I wish that was the answer nowadays, I'm sorry, what's
the Batman? He's a psychopath?

Speaker 2 (38:22):
So much of what we are doing now in modern
pop culture, which tragically is mostly tied to film and television,
and even more tragically TikTok as opposed to literature, as
opposed to theater, as opposed to dance at literally any
other art form. Film has only been around for one

(38:45):
hundred years, one hundred and ten years. In this sort
of you can go to a cinema and sit down
and watch something that's long form. So when this movie
was made. Everyone who was going to see a movie
saw this movie. There was so much less influence, and
as a result, every time they made a new werewolf movie,

(39:06):
they said, well, there's only one other were wolf movie.
Let's just borrow that set, that costume, that act. That's
why Bela Goosi plays Dracula eighty five thousand times, because
the world of early film was so small, and all
we've done is recycle and regurgitate and repack it all
the way up through Twilight, all the way up through
Being Human. That's why all of those have a direct

(39:28):
line to this, and because obviously it was popular. So
why not ape something that's popular. Okay, thank you for
coming to my Ted talk on early film his history.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
I would I would watch your Ted talk on a
werewolf on the Universal horror movies. By the way, I
would throw that thank you. I'd have to watch a
lot more of them. Okay, So remember hashtag bob Odenkirk
for the Little Women.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yes no, no on your social media platform choice at
Bob Odenkirk. Tell him you wanted to come on Geekstchilla
to talk about a Little Women performance and Little Women?

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, all right, So the eighties are where we kind
of get the gold standard teen Wolf for practical effects
and what it comes to with werewolf. I'm so bad
we're talking about teen Wolf. She don't think we're gonna
talk about it.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
We'renna talk about American Werewolf in London, the best werewolf
movie you ever made.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
No, we're not. Oh, I'm jumping ahead. This is my lesson.
What are you Alegenthrope.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
No, I'm a person on the internet.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
I know better. Werewolves got to bathe and be seen
in full graphic glory with the release of a movie
that I think a lot of people have forgotten about
because of an American werewolf in London.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
So good.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Nineteen eighty one's The Howling. Oh, The Howling is also
very good. Directed and edited. Yeah, he edited by Joe Dante,
famous director. Fun fact, the success of this film is
what got Dante the job of directing nineteen eighty four's GM.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
I was gonna say GM wants Jo Dante.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Grammonts Jo Dante. He's willing for a lot more about that.
We're going to talk about The Howling. And there's a
very specific Star Trek connection. Wow, And you know we
love Star Trek connections over here. It's a whole segment
Star Trek connection. That's not the theme song, but I'll
have a theme song when we come back and you
get to hear it. We just had somebody write this

(41:16):
theme song. It's great, you'll get to hear that. Read it.
For this Welcome back to GHL, we're talking about Joe Dante. Yes,
this whole episode is about Joe Dante and how much
he brought to werewolves, he created.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Them, and how good he was at practical effects.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
That's right. He frankly, he is amazing at practical effects. Now.
He directed a film called The Howling nineteen eighty one
werewolf film. It was ground breaking because it was considered
to be the first film to show the complete, from
start to end, transformation of a man to a werewolf. Now,

(41:56):
it broke also broke the mold of the hybrid wolf
man which we talked about, which was seen for most
of the twentieth century. His werewolf had long ears, an
extended snout, and canine fangs and it was specific to
him because he wanted to create a full on body
horror scene. That's why he went through this. Now, remember

(42:20):
I mentioned there was a star Trek Connection, a brand
new segment that were hands inationally on this show that
we will probably never ever remember. Great Yes Connection.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Patreon super fans are very familiar with the cut effect.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Actor Robert Picardo, star Trek Voyager's own doctor. Remember Hikhan
Ink He's in this film. And he had a very
funny quote about his time making the film. He said,
and I quote, one day after spending six and a
half hours in the makeup chairity and I was thinking
trained at Yale, two leading roles on Broadway, my first

(42:55):
acting role in California, and my face gets melted in
a low budget horror movie. And he says, and all
the crew had to say to My comment was, Bob,
next time, read the script the whole way through first.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
But also this movie is iconic, and his work in this.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Movie is iconic. See, I think this movie is forgotten
because the movie that I think everybody talks about in
the eighties in werewolves is nineteen eighty one's an American
Werewolf in London.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yes, because American Wolf in London is the one that
everyone credits with being the first full transformation. But the Howling, Okay,
the Howling is a cult, but it is iconic.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
It's a cult film. Film Snobs has a better title too. Yes,
But I think I don't know. I think that the
general public, I think most I hear more people talk
about American Werewolf in London.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Than I do the hot I just hope, I just
hope Robert Riccardo has come back around and understands that
it was not waste of time. No, that that movie
is incredible, and he's a big part. If you cast
great actors, usually stage actors, they can make silly things work.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
So American Werewolf in London also had an incredible practical
effects transformation scene. Yeah. And it also reflected a lot
of the centuries old European lord that we talked about
earlier in this lesson. Yeah, it showcased the protagonist having
a mental deterioration and in anticipation of the upcoming full mood.
If you've never seen any one of these movies, I
highly recommend them. They make for a perfect spooking the

(44:15):
very streamable. There are also illusions of a demonic cause
for the original Werewolf, and there's a metaphorical inner beast
as the main character. Interestingly enough, Rick Baker, famous special
effects artists, was working on The Howling but left that
production to work on an American warwid London, so he

(44:35):
has touched both transformation sequence coached poach poach. Rick Baker
ways legendary of special effects artist who you do not know.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yeah, if you're a film or a creative person or
aspiring to be, Rick Baker's definitely one of those people
that you need to be googling.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Now, Ashley, I know you are more of a horror
fan than I am, So I've got a bunch of
werewolf movie questions that I want to go through with you.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Great, are these rapid fire sort of a you can.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Expand on them as much as you Okay, okay, but
you only have it until the next full move okay, Okay, Well.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
That's about two weeks away the time of this recording,
so we got time.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
When you think of movie werewolf, what image pops into
your head? Uh?

Speaker 2 (45:14):
Definitely the universal monster movies, the wolf Man.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Okay, So do you prefer that in a movie over
or do you do you want to see like wolf creature?

Speaker 2 (45:23):
I want like kind of a jacked wolf, yes, because
the other image that comes to mind for me is
ginger and ginger snaps. If you're a Canadian iconic film.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yes, all right? Now, do you prefer full on makeup
and practical effects for a werewolf or let me say this, Okay,
if you are making a movie now, yeah, you know
the werewolf transmission would be full CG yep. But would
you prefer to see some makeups, some practical effects on
a human I would.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
I would prefer to do an enhanced probably if it was.
If it was, if I was in charge of it,
I would be like, how did I get here? I'm
a terrible director and I know this, And I would
be like, oh, I see, I'm working for Marble.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
That's how this happened. But you did cast Robert Poccardo,
so show Robert pop Paccardo. He's my That's another.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
I would advocate for having an actor to play the
human side, and then probably a jacked stunt person to play.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
You do a classic nineteen eighties TV.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
I would yeah, and then obviously enhanced because I'm not
I'm not going to put some poor person in power
risers to be on set all day. But I do
think the most charming thing about were wolf movies, and
the ones that remain the most iconic, do have practical effects.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
So were wolves in the eighties, of course, were popularized again.
Yeah uh, And they started making appearances in video games
like Altered Beasts. Remember that game were Wolf the Apocalypse.
They appeared on the Do you remember Altered Beasts? I
knew that was a lie. I remember Altered Beast. It
was sort of a weird Second Genesis fighting game where
you were all monsters sort of fight. It was like

(46:58):
street fight. That sounds fun. Honestly, it's a great title.
I played it a couple Bring it back. It's not bad.
Bring it Back. We probably played on the switch. I
don't know. They also appeared on television like Big Wolf
on Campus.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Okay, I got Big Wolf on Camp.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Goose Bumps, very famously, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Seth Green
is a werewolf in that. We can't talk about teen
Wolf and teen Wolf two. We can't. Well, we're not
going to, okay. I just wanted to name check them
because I knew people'd be like, oh, teen Wolf and
then t Wolf also became a series. But I had
to talk. There's one thing, because there's so many werewolf
media at this point, it's kind of were wolf exploded.

(47:32):
But I want to talk about very interesting werewolf film
that happened in the late twentieth century, early twenty first century,
twenty first century. My favorite ta Twilight.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
No'out this because I don't think there must have seen it.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Look, if you're listening to this, by the way, I'm
just gonna throw this out here, because this is my
werewolf mode right before I talk about this film that
I actually think is good. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna throw
this out to the listeners of GHAW. And this is
a very small subsection of you. This hasn't happened for
a while, but every once in a while at one
of these comments, and it frustrates the hell out of me.

(48:07):
I literally cannot list every single film that has a
werewolf in it.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Oh god, yeah, I would be here if we forget
your favorite one.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
I would be here for three hours. If I did,
it would just be that. And frankly, there's a Wikipedia.
Just because I do not mention something doesn't mean I
don't know about it. So but we still get those
comments with you forgot to mention this, So shut up,
all right, We're gonna talk about the ones that I
care about. This is my podcast. Shut up, everybody, all right?
Here we go. Now that was my werewolf mode. I apologize.

(48:35):
I'm back to normally.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Happy, happy, spooky season of Jason's Spooky Holidays.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
I literally saw one of those like yesterday, so that's why.
But you guys are great. But anyways, I want to
talk about Ginger Snaps. It was released in two thousand.
It is a two thousand Canadian supernatural horror film directed
by John Fawcett, written by Karen Walton. If you've not
seen it, I highly recommend. It's probably a little dated,

(49:02):
but I still think it's worth the while.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
I watched it again two years ago.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Oh okay, how did you think it helped? It is?

Speaker 2 (49:07):
It's icon inc It's definitely of it.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
It's time. But you might talk about the plots. I
don't give it away, but it's not.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
It's not dated in a way that you're going to
find anything offense.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
It's just like two thousands of data.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
Like everyone definitely is wearing flow Rice flarepants.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Okay. In this film, they showcase werewolf ism as a
sexual transmitted condition, which correlated with women experiencing puberty. The
main's character, whorwolf translations transformations coincided with the beginning of
their menstrual cycles, and the film refocused. Werewolves were used
to be about the inner beast from a male's perspective,

(49:41):
now about a change from within, specifically be an allegory
for the birth of one sexuality. That's all I want
to talk about it. It's a really interesting update.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
It's a very just post Riot Girl's early two thousands
feminist reading of.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
I think it's perfect for the spooky holiday family viewing.
If you want to watch it. Yeah, it's probably not everyone,
and it's very pretty.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
It's also, you know, a little bit kind of queer,
so that's fine.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Watch ginger snaps. So I'm gonna name check here. We're
gonna name check for some of those people come in
with those comments. There's a bunch of werewolf meeting, right,
So werewolves got affected by the post nine to eleven feeling.
There were some militant threats in films, such as werewolves
were in military films sort as dog soldiers were war
wolves and battle dogs a oh, for goodness, see any

(50:33):
of them those were werewolves where they were hell as
a reflection as like weapons of mass destruction. There also
were warwor centric television shows like Teen Wolf, Hemlock, Hemlock
grow remember that thing and wolf Pack and of.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Course I've seen every episode of Wolfback.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Werewolves Gotten To Some Sexy Times and Underworld, Twilight, True
Blood Vampire Diaries. Yeah. Now we're now at a point
where there really isn't a definitive traditional definition for what
happens with werewolves and how they transformed. So, based on

(51:11):
Ashley everything you have learned in this lesson, this is
the end of the lesson. I want to know your
werewolf story. Yep, what is necessary and what is your
preferred version? Oh?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
I love this? I also okay, yes, my preferred version
of werewolves is is the teen wolf TV show Slash
being human rules?

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Okay, so you explain those rules. I will.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
So it's a curse that is either and it can
be inherited or it can be transferred by a bite.
You transform always, seld Dute on the full moon. You
can transform other times, but it's much harder and it's
much more painful and it takes a lot more out
of you. Uh. There is a pack struck sure, So

(52:00):
there are like alpha wolves who are more leader driven.
There are lone wolves who sort of can exist outside
of the structure. What are considered threatening. There's a healing
factor and there's not immortality, but there is a longer lifespan.
And I do like the idea that it's usually like

(52:23):
emotionally driven, so you really have to keep yourself in check.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
It's like that's those are my very wolf. By the way,
stan Lee in the early Hulk's a straight up horror character.
He's a straight up werewolf because in the early issues
I actually forgot about that. I should have brought this up
in the lesson. In the early issues of Hulk the
Incredible Hulk, he only turned on the moon. Yeah, yeah,
it turned on the It was interesting.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
So that's that's my preferred Because I don't know if
you're going to ask if we're going to talk about
what our favorite werewolf media.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Is, well, I will say over at the Patreon are
episode of j JO Extra, which is an exclusive bonus
episode for everybody, if you come over and support the pod,
is gonna be I have a list of Okay, so
we'll do that. Empire made a list of the top
ten best were wolf movies. I thought we would go
through them and see if we agree.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Fantastic. Okay, So then I will leave off that that
until there, but yeah, that's my that's my preferred so
I do. I I like a mixture of the curse
in the superhero aspects, I guess and I and I
do like that in both of those mythologies where wolves
can be male of fema, of any gender expression.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Yeah, I agree. I think it should be an I
like breaking it away from the moon as well, because
the moon really limits your storytelling ability where it's like
you only get three days, you know, a month where
the guy is going to turn. I think it needs to.
I like the idea that it's an emotional I like
the idea that it's a curse. I even like the
idea that it it just you can't control what that
it just happens.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Did you, I don't know if you answered this when
you asked me earlier. Do you prefer an anthropomorphized wolf
or more of a wolf monster creature.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
I want it to be a wolf monster. I wanted
to go to completely not look like a human. Yeah
at all. But here's the thing. I even like the
idea of that there is a wolf that has been
cursed to turn into a human. Whoa Yeah, why do
you flip it on its head.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Copyright Jason, and then look for that pilot coming to streaming.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
So Wolf, I don't care. That's a it's an interesting
to be honest with you, it's probably out there.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
I definitely, there's no way there's it's been around for
so long.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
It's probably out there. But I was gonna say, like, yeah,
so like that would be an interesting thing. It would be,
you know, to flip that dynamic. And then he becomes
president of America.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
I'm gonna leave off any starky comments anything, all right,
So everybody, Uh, that's it for were wolves.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Oh I forgot about that. I've done it like six
I know it's so early. I'm sorry, it's not really
that really, I just this look. I feel like I've
been up paling at the moon. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
This has been I think people have sus to this
out from the feed. This is first time Jason and
I recorded together.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
In a minute. So go over to geek history lesson
dot com slash recommended reading if you want to check
out some werewolf related books. It'll be like Ashley choice
at this point, and let's get to the honor roll. Ashley,
what is that?

Speaker 2 (55:24):
The honor roll is if you go over to Apple
podcast and you leave us a five star review. We
will read anything that you say. I will say if
you want to review us on any other podcast platforms,
please send us screenshot to geek history listen at gmail
dot com. Or if you're a nice international friend on
your Apple podcast, we can't see it, please send us
a nice screenshot. Let us know where you're from. Today

(55:46):
we have a lovely human person joining the autit role
called Betto loves Martha Perez, Panama.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Do you live in Panama? Do you have a guest room?
Please let us now. Ge Kissy listen at gmail.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Dot com and they said, love this show. Hi, thanks
for making this podcast.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
You're welcome.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
This is my favorite podcast of all.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Time only cause you. Thank you, only because you think.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
I really love the X Men and I found your
episode on Emma Frost. After the episode, I was hooked.
I look forward to a new episode every week. It's
a great stress reliever from a long day at work.
Keep up the good work well, Betto. I'm assuming your
name is better maybe maybe it's Beto. I'm so glad
that we can be part of your destressing routine. And
also shout out to Research assistant diego at the unions

(56:29):
for all the heavy lifting that he did on the
Emma Frost episode much against my better judgment, and welcome
into the teachers Lab.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Yeah, that's cool. Also, don't forget you can follow a
geekish lesson on threads where.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Ashley at geek History lesson.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
And you follow us on Instagram where at geek history lesson?
And where's the Facebook?

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Uh? Facebook dot com slash.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
Geek history lesson and do you think any updates on
well geekschels in beginning a Blue Sky.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
They will be getting a blue Sky by the end
of this recording day at but.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
I'm hoping it's going to be geek History. It'll be
linked everywhere else. Yeah, yeah you can find me. I
just want to write everybody, I'm over a blue Sky
at Jason inman if and I know it's John went
everywhere else, but I claim Jason imman. It's the first
time I've been able to grab it.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Yeah, we're doing we're doing a rebranding for Jason.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
I don't know, I just decided to grab it instead.
Maybe that's why people can't find me. But what that's
your TikTok as well? Is at Jason himman. No, it's not.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
No, it's not as the person who tags you every
single day and in a TikTok Jason, iimman fairly certain
my TikTok is at Jason Inman, writer was already taken.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
I'm not on TikTok hardly. Ever. Don't come look at me.
But you've been tagging somebody else in all those videos
because it's your icon, So have fun with that, Ashley,
where do you want people to find you all over
the internet? At? Ashley V. Robinson? Okay, and now we're
glad that we sticked around for stick around? What have

(57:51):
we learned today?

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (57:52):
We need a new sound fact. I'm sorry. Well, today
we've learned that werewolves are nature's way of saying, why
settle for one pet when you can be your own?
Oh my god? Stop? All right, thank you all for
listening to this spooky holiday season. Hope you have a
spooky holiday season. Don't eat your son or your parents.

(58:14):
Don't do it. I know they look tasty, but don't
do it. Ashley, can he give us one last howl
of the moon?

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Oh I'm Jason Inman, I'm aster Victoria Robinson X.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Oh what what are we gonna say? And Professor Jason
will he pleased. This episode's all over the place. Have
you turned into a werewolf? Are you a she wolf? No?

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Not for two more weeks.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
You know, werewolf can be like gender fluid.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Yeah, gender neutral, chef. I'm sure there's lots of nice
non binary folks who are.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Werewolves werewolves, and there's a non brionere werewolf out there
for sure, that's true.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
I mean, arguably a non binary, gender fluid or two
spirit person should be the most werewolf because they would
contain both masculine and feminine traits, as we all do
if we really want to get into that debate.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
But who knew what this is? Where this ups? By
the way, you want to recommend that Satan episode, we're
happy to do anytime.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
That's how you'll know when we start doing with religious figures.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
That's how you'll know details on its way out. Were
we thrown yours your lesson all caution to the wind.
Have a happy holidays, have a happy spooky holidays holiday.
Watch out for that yul cut. Thanks for listening. Everybody
by class is now dismissed. Bye,