Why Sherlock Needs a Watson a.k.a. Why We Need Sidekicks

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Is there a duo more well known than Sherlock Holmes
and John Watson. Don't say Batman and Robin, because they
are arguably the blueprint for Batman and Robin.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Jason Well, I mean that's the answer, though Batman and
Robin are more well known than Sherlock and Watson at
this point. Sherlock and I mean Batman and Robin are
the modern Sherlock and Watson. That's honestly, like they're literally
they're literally the twentieth century version of the nineteenth century
Sherlock and Watson. So I guess the real question I'm

(00:44):
going to put a question back to you is, by the.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Way, Sherlock and Watson did exist into the twentieth century.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
No, but you get what I'm saying, Like when you
look at like that was the period that they're most famous.
I guess the real question here is who's going to
be the twenty first century Batman and Robin? Oh, who
will be the also the twenty first entry version of
Sherlock and Watson? Like, who is going to be that
those two characters?

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, with the proliferation of media the way, because we keep.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Making that really like really awesome smart person and emotional
heart pal because Watson and Robin sort of fulfill those roles.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
They're the more emotionally stable characters. Yeah, certainly they're the heart.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, and the other person is the smartie that's kind
of detached. Yes, yeah, you know, so like they're the
person that like, you know, like Watson and Dick Grayson
have very similar you know. I mean, Dick Grayson is
not a medical doctor, huh, but he has a lot
of experience being a trapeze artist.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
He has a lot of skills that are different and
complimentary to that.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
They're very complimentary Batman, but he is also like the
guy that will hug Alfred the way that Watson will
hug his wife, Yeah, the way that Batman doesn't like hugs,
and the way that Sherlock Holmes think the thinks that
women are gross.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Well, also is Batman to be fair?

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah? Yeah, you like. So you're trying to say, is
there a better duo?

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Is there a more iconic duo?

Speaker 2 (02:07):
No? I mean, I hate to say it, Batman and
Robin are more iconic than Surelock can Wanton at this point,
and that is simply because of just the TV shows,
in the movies, the Carl Pop Yeah, there has just
been more Batman stuff than there has been Charlock Holmes stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
It's interesting because I wouldn't have thought of it the
way that you you sort of professed it that. Like,
so we're looking at what is the next that we're
on the precipice of what it's the next evolution of
this type of duo.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
I mean like I'm trying to think about, like I
am trying to put my head into what is the
culture of what are the movies or television shows or
even books of the last twenty years. Yeah, yeah, and
trying to see if a duo pops up. And I'm
just gonna start saying franchises. I mean, like I don't
think you can really Twilight's a romance, so it doesn't

(02:53):
quite work. Yeah, Hunger Games also romance. Yeah, but Catinust
doesn't really have a partner. Yeah, you could argue that
it's Pete, but like Peta is not a Watson. The
catness Peter bates spread also because she spends most of
the first book by herself. Yeah, I don't really think
you can throw Harry Potter out here because it's three
of them. Yeah, it's also horrible and it's also a romance.

(03:16):
There's a romance for two of us.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, you can't.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
You can't throw that out there. What's another is there anymore?
Like who's a I mean, I bet.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
You, because my brain immediately went to something like I'm
trying to think of what a big popular franchise is,
like the Walking Dead, Stranger Things.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, walking Dead doesn't have that many duos. Yeah, and
then if you want to go, like I bet you
some people out there screaming, CW is Supernatural. But here's
the problem with that is that, well they're brothers. Well,
but we don't know if that is going to have
the staining power twenty years from now or if they
reboot Supernatural then maybe yeah, But like right now, it's
just one television check.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
You know where I think you and I are looking
at it from the wrong standpoint is both Batman and
Robin Ans Sherlock and Holmes, and I'm going to talk
about who I think the precursor to them is in
a little bit. They're all literary based, they're all we
have adaptations, but these are book characters. So I don't
know if a character who's created initially for a movie
on television is going to have this kind of stayingpoint
because they come out of a literary trow.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
What's the name of what's the what's the kid from
How to Treat Your Dragon a Hiccup? Hiccup and and
what's his dragon guy? Toothless? What's his dragon guy? Clearly
Jason is invested in this How to Treat It's Hiccup
and Toothless. That's that's a character. Sure, they're there. You
know what it was that book published in the twenty

(04:31):
first century or that remember that twenty century book? I
have no idea. I was like, give it, give a
quick google to that. I don't know, because I was like,
my theory might be invalid immediately. But you know, I'm
gonna make the argument that it's Hiccup and Toothless or
the modern sure, like can watch two thousand and three,
so you just barely Toothless is the heart and Hiccup
is the guy that sort of likes ladies the brain.

(04:53):
I guess, well, I mean he makes he makes the
wing for the dragon.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Sure, Okay, I just hic ups on a character I
think in particularly smart, and.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
We're getting a live action. It's a bit of book.
It's like four movies we had a cartoon, we had
video games, now we're having more movies. I think it's
take up a too less all right, Well, with that deduction,
I think you probably deduced that you are an Ashley.
You're listening to geek Ast your lessons, So it's time
for me to say hello and welcome to Geekist your lesson.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
I am Ashley Victoria Robinson.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
And I am Jason the Dragon whisper in Man. Welcome
to your mind University. That's what we call this podcast
where one TV writer from Kandas and one comic a
writer from Canada talk about one subject in pop culture
in a little bit less than an hour to fill
your delicious little hearts. And today, what are we talking about, Ashley?

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Today? We are talking about Sherlock Holmes and John Watson,
and we are bravely asking does Sherlock need a Watson
because we're gonna probably get into a deeper discussion on
sidekicks and on the things that they have influent And
we're doing this for a very special reason, My dear friend.

(06:03):
If you want to see Jason's television writing press in action,
as you heard him introduce in the beginning of this podcast,
you can do just that by watching Watson on The
new series debuts on January twenty six, which is quite
close to when this episode comes out.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
In fact, after the AFC Championship game.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah, I'm not gonna tell, like I know what that means,
but that is true.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
It's like the lead up to the super Bowl. If
you're not if you're nothing, Yeah, if you're a non
I think you mean the superbowel, Yes, the Superbowl. It's
the lead up to the superb Bowl, which is you know,
so it's it's it's it's one of the championship games
that determines one of the two teams that are going
to be in the Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
I had literally no.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, great.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
This show puts literature's most famous sidekick in the starring role.
And here's a little here's a little description that I
got for you. A year after the death of his
friend Sherlock Holmes, doctor John Watson resumes his medical career
at a clinic dedicated to the treatment of rare diseases,
but his old life is not over done. Done done
dune dun doune. You can watch it on CBS or

(07:03):
streaming on Paramount Plus Jason anything else you want to
say about Wilson.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Uh, it's a really cool show. It is. Somebody described
it as house meets Diagnosis Murder, which I don't know
if many people do you know what diagnosis murder is?

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Never heard of it for a single second.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
So diagnosis Murder. It was a weird I heard. I
heard somebody younger than me describe it as that, which
surprised me. Diagnosis Murder was a CBS medical show, right,
that was Dick Van Dyke, Wow as a doctor great
with a big fancy mustas just after the DVD show
After the Way After was in the nineties. Okay, I

(07:40):
didn't know, and he sort of like was a doctor
that solved murders?

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (07:45):
So yes, I actually was like when the person said that,
I was like, that is a very that's a very actor. Yes. Uh,
you know. I was privileged and lucky enough. I'm one
of the writers of Watson.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Which episode even though everybody works on everything.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
EPISO love them, so you gotta watch all. I'll watch
them all, watch them because they're a great Please go
to Paramount Plus and click five times on every episode.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
And then click ten times on episode.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Then tell your grandmother to click ten times in every
episode because I will tell you, uh, as somebody who
works in the tent industry and whose paycheck is derived
from the television industry. Uh, those clicks matter. Those studios
pay attention to those clicks.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
So the show is the shows that even if the
show's on a bubble, and I think Watson's gonna fine
because it's a great show. Yeah, the shows that are
in the bubble, those clicks make a difference.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, so watch it on your terrestrial television and then
click it and watch it again on CBS. Yep, I'm
paramoun plus right.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah. No, it's a it's a fun like if you're
really into a medical mystery show that really like has
a twist of like, oh, it's the there's a it's
a nice it's a nice mix between like a police
mystery and a medical show. It's a nice twist, and
it twists in ways you're not going to be expected.

(08:56):
And there's little there's Sherlock characters throughout the first season,
and Morris Chestnuts a great Watson. Yeah, and there's lots
of winks to Sherlock Holmes war. And you don't have
to be a Sherlock Holmes fan to watch it if
you are, It's there for you if you are. Yeah,
you're gonna You're gonna dig it. You're gonna dig it. Yeah,
it's a it's got a good energy. It's a fun show.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
So we took this opportunity to say, we want to
talk more about Sherlock Holmes. Uh, Jason worked on Watson
with a lot of incredible writers and uh, you probably
know this because you listen to this podcast. We're based
in LA We know a lot of great entertainment people.
We know a lot of great people outside of entertainment
who've all been affected by something kind of not great
right now.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yes, all the Los Angeles uh, basically wildfires of the
beginning of this year. There's been a lot of people affected,
and we just basically want to, you know, give a
shout out to everybody and and our hearts reach out
to everybody that has, you know, lost a house or
lost a person, or helped out or haven't lost it,
or just felt general anxiety. It's been a rough time

(09:55):
and you know, we want to encourage everybody to that
if you can donate to the relief efforts, or even
offer a listening ear or simply help with basic needs
we need to come together and we want to promote
I think the unsung heroes of this whole just rough
time that Los Angeles been happened in the beginning of
twenty twenty five. One of the places you can really

(10:17):
help out is by providing support to the Los Angeles
Fire Department Fire Foundation. This is critical support to the
over seven thousand firefighters and emergency personnel, the people that
have been boots on the ground, the people that have
really been ensuring that as much of Los Angeles can
survive this. And you know, and Ashley and I know

(10:39):
this because at one point it looked like it was
going to come our way, and the firefighters and all
the emergency personnel really just like, did such want to talk
about you know, we talk a lot about Batman, Robbins
and Sherlock and watch the VI's of the real heroes.
So we literally watched Zat, We watched them fire basically
to us stop the fire right in front of us.
So this is the way that you who can support them.

(11:00):
And also this is cool, I looked this up before
that they also help the surviving families of fallen firefighters. Yeah,
so if you'd like to help, donate directly to them.
There will be a link in this episode you can
go to support LAFD dot org. Again, this is the
way that they can get their equipment, they can get
like wattled water, their meals. It's it's it's you know again,

(11:23):
I've seen some people say this that they're like, well,
I know I need to support the firefighters, don't. They
are paid by tax dollars. Look, they are supported by
tax dollars, and they have all the equipment they need,
and they have the stuff they need. But when you
are facing a once set a lifetime wildfire, you might
need a little bit extra support. Yeah, when you've been
fighting fires for like basically three weeks straight or two
weeks straight or how like in twenty four hours a day,

(11:46):
you need a little bit of help. This is the
place to do it. We really support them. They are
the heroes. They are the Sherlocks and the Watsons and
the Batman and the Robins and the Hiccups and the
what was his name? Twos black Dragon Guy Cat support
LAFD dot or. There will be a link of the
topic description. Even again, even five dollars helps.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yeah, and we've been saying this right now, sharing the
link helps right now, the best thing that you can
do if you're not in LA and you're not able
to do anything usually and the best thing you can
do right now is money.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yep. So thanks for.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Your support in advance. Yeah, all right, back to the fun, silly,
frivolous nonsense, because even in times like nonsense, frivolous nonsense
is important and it's our spirits. We're doing this for us.
We're doing this for you because we love.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
You, Watts and Insure like I mean, you know, because
it's fun. Fact, a lot of people don't know this.
You can find this in our Patreon fee, but it
is not available in the JHL feed. Our episode zero,
which tightly our episode one was five Facts about Sherlock BBC,
so you know, right out of the gate, Ashley and I.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
We have we have three separate copies of the complete
works of Sherlock Holmes in our home.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, you know. Also, I want to say something I
see I've been told this by some fans of this show.
I don't mind a comment, but it's interesting to see.
I've seen fans before be like, guys are just a
comic book show, and I want to be like, you know,
our first two episodes. We're not We're not about comic
books at all. Sherlock Holmes and roebook cop Baby and
also Hunger Games was in our first year. Yeah, yeah,

(13:12):
so was Sarah connorcle So like this is like coming
back old school baby.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Oh I wonder if that you know, if idiot, there.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Have also been so many Sherlock comic books if you
want to be that derivative of it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
One of our first character that ever appeared on this show,
Lord Carlton, appeared in episode zero Bend Carrabadge's father. He
only appeared in one episode two. Yes, I think so, but.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
He surprised was not invited back by You know what,
maybe when we do our last episode, Lord Carlton will
make another appearance.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
It's just Jason with the British accent at that point,
I think we just get a zoom and talked about
in a Corra Batch is real.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Lord Carlton all right, tents in origin time, Jason, would
you be so kind as to let people know.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
What this is where Ashley's going to give you the
basic who's its of Sherlock Holmes in case you go
to a cocktail party. Right. Besides Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's
grave and he's his ghost raises up and with his
hounds of the basket. They'll ask you, do you even
know what my character, Sherlock Holmes is?

Speaker 1 (14:08):
First you pop him in the nose, and then you
tell him to respect women, and then you can give
him the ghost drink.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
But we're we're gonna do a lot of Sherlock talk.
And I just want to point out that, you know,
the last Sharlet Holmes official Shirlock Holmes book was published
one hundred years ago, so we just want to make
sure you know what we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yes. So, Sherlock Holmes and doctor John Watson are the
stars of a fictional detective series of books based in
London and England, as well as a series of short stories.
There are sixty Sherlock Holmes stories in all four books.
Not enough, I agree, fifty six, So if you think
your writing output, it's good. It was created by Sir
Arthur Conan Doyle, who Jason and I have referenced. He's

(14:46):
a Scotsman. The first appearance of both of these characters Scotsman.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
I didn't know that scotsman. Yeah, cool.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
First appearance was a study in Scarlet in eighteen eighty seven.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Believe he wrote that when he was twenty nine.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Nineteenth century weird.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
A huge part of this book. More of this book is.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Set in the United States, which were not yeah in
the United States of this time, and then in England.
And there's a ton of Mormons in it.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
This book is weird, weird book.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
I don't recommend reading it as.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Your first auctorically inaccurate to hell, well, so is most
Charlock comes. Yeah, a lot of cholo coombs this fantasy. Look,
let's be honest. They didn't have the Internet. It's fine.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
The best he could do was just being like going
down to the pub and being like, hey, well you
know about this?

Speaker 1 (15:26):
So home stories do this thing that Ian Fleming also
did in the James Bond novels was basically Arthur Conan
Doyle learned about something cool or a cool place and
was like, what if I write a book about it?
And that is how a lot of people pre Internet
would learn about a place like Utah.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
What if there?

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yeah, exactly, he doesn't go to Utah. These stories were
originally published in the Strand magazine. Please Don't Charlotte considers
himself a consulting detective. He is known for his proficiency
with observation, deduction, forensic science, and logical reasoning that borders
on the fantastic, and he employs his tools investigating cases

(16:02):
of a wide variety of clients, often including Scotland Yard,
the official British Police, and John H. Watson. Jason. What's
John Watson's middle name?

Speaker 2 (16:11):
So here is the kicker. Everybody thinks there is an
official middle name to doctor John Watson. There is not.
There is a cannon accepted answer. No, there is a
Cannon accepted answer.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
There is no candidate.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
It is never said in any of the books. And
I know this because we did this research for the show.
But I will tell you the accepted answer by most
Sherlock Cannons is Hamish. That's right, John Watson, and I
will reveal this right here. Gee gets your lesson exclusive
in CBS is Watson? His middle name is Hamish? Do
you know?

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Okay? So John Hamish Watson is an army surgeon. Turn
because it's just an h. It's never actually said. Yeah,
do you know Jason? Which like which part of the army? Johnson?

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oh god, I think it's rifle tears.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
You're so close. He's part of the fifth Northumberland fuse
a leaders Okay, yeah, yeah, So he's a marksman, yeah,
I mean he's he's a doctor.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Well, he wasn't a marksman, but he had the training for.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
It, yes, yes, but he's he's proficient.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
With and I know he served in Afghanistan. He certainly did.
He also was a doctor at Saint Mark's for a while.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yuess he was, yeah, yeah, and then he went to
medical college at Saint Barts, which is where he first
met That's right, all right, so let's that's your tensent origin, Jason.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
I are clearly should we or should we say a shilling?
Your ten shilling ansa?

Speaker 1 (17:37):
I don't understand shillings and old British moneys really confusing.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
I have read so many from here's the thing. I
could google this answer, but I.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Have googled it so many times and it doesn't make
me not a I'm.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Gonna go even weirder. I could google this and this
is going to sound like a very arrogant American answer,
and it is an American, arrogant American question, and it
is But to any of our British listeners, please email
us at Geekstra Lesson at gmail dot com and explo
Stone to me because I know that weight class.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Occasions point five pounds or something.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, never bothered to look it up, but every time
I hear it, and like an English broadcast or a
task master, I'm always like, I'm always like, what does
that mean?

Speaker 1 (18:14):
This isn't true. You and I have looked up Stone
every single season we watched the Craft.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
I forget it. Every time I forget it. Here's looking
at you, asking one of our wonderful British.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Listener's pod Jordan Dunn listener.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Multiple British people, Cameron Cuff. Cuff explains Dominic keaty. Yeah,
but Dominic lives in the States now, he don't like, Yeah,
please explain Stone to me in a way that I'll
remember it. Yes, because I obviously keep forgetting it.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Okay, shall we get into the less hun Yes. A.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
We're gonna teach people about what.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
What stone is.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
I could simply google it any doctor John Watson.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Look, I also support this way of thinking because I
refuse to learn Fahnheit because it's stupid, it doesn't make
any sense.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
It's for Briani, for Weather, Celsius grow up America, spoken
like a non American. Everybody asked, that's my American passport.
Let's get the everybody.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
So we have been referring to John as Sherlock's side cake.
That's actually not strictly speaking true.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Nope, Charlotte comes in.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
John Watson are a perfect example of the literary concept
of a foil. We have talked about foils for years
and years and years and years here on geek History. Lesson.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
You're a tiny sword, right, Yes, this is the type
of they pay. But I would like us this is
so theater nerd. No one is gonna like this. We've
lost everybody. Everybody, Bye, What do you want to talk
about now that they're gone?

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Morelock homes cool?

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Okay, I do actually have a question about the let's
do foils swords now, it's not about there's a severe
Charlot Coms has a severe lack of sword.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
More of a gun story. Watson always has a gun.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
You know. That's thing that I actually it's funny I
brought up in the Watson room.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
They're much more modern actually than you think.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Though. It's interesting because there is a this is gonna
get on weird tangent, right, there is a very in
a lot of modern Shehrlock adaptations, there is a very
common trope to avoid having Sherlock carry a gun, and
that is like he carries a gun in a lot
of the books.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, he Watson carries one in every single story.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Give it to Watson and the often has one.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, and then you get like the Adventure of the
Empty House where you have a silencer on a sniper.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Right. Well, I think about the Robert Downey Junior movies
where they made him. They've particularly made him like he
carried a gun here and there, but they were like
more like, oh, he'll fist fight people, whereas Watson will
shoot people. Yeah, And it's like Sherlock shot a couple
of people in the books.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yes, he shoots somebody in the Adventure of the Blue Carmel.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
But I like to not think about the movies.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
So there's there's your gun tangent talk. That is what
you come here for the gun show for sure.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Okay, But I want to take the time to define
Foyle because we often throw that word around assuming that
you know what it is and we're going to dive
down deep on it.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
We got to make sure you know it if you're
making the pie before you put it the oven. You
put it over your pie, and it just gives it
a nice oil. It gives it a nice crusty. If
you want it to crisp on top, you don't put it.
I know, I was just I was improviy and it
went wrong.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
You're breaking my brain permasterclass dot com quote. A literary
foil is a character whose purpose is to accentuate or
draw attention to the qualities of another character, most often
the protagonist. This literary term is named after an old
jewelry trick of selling a gem on a foil base
and to enhance its shine. So you put it pece

(21:32):
of a foil behind the diamond and it would shine
brighter the In my opinion, the classic literary example of
this is Hamlet and Larties from William Shakespeare's Hamlet. Hamlet
is a man of thought and in action and indecision.
Laerties is a man of action and no thought.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
But it's interesting because that's more like they are more
antagonists against each other, like Larities is Hamlet's antagonist, whereas
Watson is not.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
The beginning of the play.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
There close friends. It's interesting, I see I don't. I
don't know if I see Shirlock and Watson as foils,
but I will trust your research. So I'd never thought.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Of them interesting because you actually said something in our
intro that I think illustrates this very clearly.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Because it's super easy and a bit reductive. But we'll
start here to reduce.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Holmes and Watson to Sherlock Holmes is the head and
John Watson is the heart, and together that may be a
perfectly functional human being. To me, that's what literary foils are. Hamlet,
I actually.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Think that's great writing too, if you can do that
with your character.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Hamlet and Laerties are the same thing. If if Hamlet,
if you could take Hamlet's intelligence and Laerties willing to action,
you have a perfect leading man. Okay, okay, So anyway,
so do you think this for for Homes and Watson
the head and the heart? Do you think this is accurate?
Or do you think that it goes.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Deeper than I don't know, I don't understand your meaning
with you deeper?

Speaker 1 (22:50):
So, like, is it is it reductive to just say that, well,
Sherlock is the head and Watson is the heart, or
do you think like they're more that's an easy sort
of service level. Or do you think their relationship is
more complicated.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Is way more complicated than that? I really do. I mean,
I know the Conan Doyle stories are very like adventure mysteries.
Here's the thing. If you read chock Holms, they're very simple.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
They're pulp stories. They were published in the strand that's why.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
That's why they're dimestore novel sixteen pages long, like they
are meant to be. Like it's not quite pulp, but
it's like a step above pulp. They're not they're not
deep character pieces. Yeah, and generally you know exactly how
Sharlock's gonna act, and you generally know how exactly Watson's
gonna act. But I will say it is interesting that
like the strength of the writing is like how much character,

(23:35):
how much character Conan Doyle was able to put in?
There was so little. Yeah, so I do think their
relationship is more complex than just like Sherlock is the
brain and Watson is the heart. I do think that
is kind of I do think Conan Doyle was thinking
about that, uh huh when he was writing it, because
it's it's kind of there. Yeah, you know, that you

(23:57):
can kind of make that metaphor, but I don't know
if I that's the entirety of it.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Okay, I want to drill down on that. I want
to ask you, Jason, what is the greatest value that
you think Watson provides to homes? Huh? But we've got
to go do some deductive reasoning of ourselves.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
What is Scotland Yard? Call exactly on the phone. We
gotta go about everyone.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
So we're going to take an ad deal with it
by Okay, who just ran all the way back from
solving the mystery at Scotland Yard.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yes, the mystery of the legged lamp. And Jason is obviously.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
I like him though.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
He's a good time really, Yes, kind of a drip.
First of all, Gregson is the drip, not straw. Yeah,
you're right, greg I can't like fight.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
I'll fight you on that anytime. Jason is clearly the head,
I am clearly the heart. We're being reductive, but I.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Think we're that word today.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah, I'm really in my literary era. Okay, cool, Jason.
So let's go back to the question we asked before.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
What is a stone? I'm ready to.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
See seventeen point fives. I don't even know if that's right.
It just sounds right in my brain. English people are
screaming in it.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
Right now, what do you think is the greatest value
that Watson provides? Two homes And we can expand this
out a bit to be like, what is the value
of having a sidekick to like an infallible leading character?
Because because homes in Sherlock homes in Sherlock. You know
those two guys, Homes and Batman. Again, it's really easy
to make that comparison.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
I mean, Batman did meet Sherlock Holmes, so it's it's
fair to put them in the same story. They also
in their respective universes, google their world, screens, detectives. I'm
not joking. I own a copy. It's a very famous cover.
It's a great cover. It's actually a great story too.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, but the cover. Just look at the cover, like,
what is what value does a sidekick provide to a
leading character?

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Well, it's it's the same as like any other character
in a story. You're looking for characters that will show
or reveal things about your main character that you cannot
just get from reading or observing. Right, You're trying to
pull something out of the main character. It's the interesting thing.

(26:14):
Like again, you know, I'm a star trek guy. So
like the best example is Kirk Spock McCoy. Right, it's
always like the id, the the ego and the super egoa, right,
And you could look at as that like, you know,
McCoy is the heart, Spock is the brain, and Kirk
is like basically like courage or like or Rezilli Will
yeah yeah Will.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
I actually think for this particular example, I think you
would be better off pulling from T ANDG. Honestly, I
think you'd be better off contrasting Picard and Riker. Okay,
the brain elder learned statesman. He very much breaches like understanding, morality, contemplation,
and Riker is a more like younger enthusiastic man of
action shoot from the hip. Yeah again, Together they always

(26:56):
come to the best.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Writer's passion and the card is logic.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Even if you want to go further down the TNG,
you could even look at like a Jordi Data team
up right, because Jordi is, like all, George's a very emotional,
very intelligent, but very emotional character, and Data is trying
to learn that.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Well. It's also I mean here if do you want
the real writer answer of why you want a sidekick?

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Of course I want writer brain.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Okay, here is the real peel everything back of why
you give a character a sidekick because you need somebody
for them to talk to. Well, I was gonna echo
that because there's a lot of you can't have Sherlock.
It would be very boring to have Sherlock just walk
into a room and go mm hmmm mm hmmm mm
hmmm mm hmm. I've solved it.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
It's the very reason why the BBC Sharlock for example,
and I know the Robertsendi Junior movie does this as well,
where they do the super composed like like where there
he's very quickly doing formulas and making it.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Done because a montage where you see like the NC scene.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Because otherwise you're just exactly what you say. You you're
giving them someone.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
To speak to. You need somebody. You needed somebody to
speak to him. So then if you're gonna give them
somebody to speak to, you need to give them somebody
that is generally the opposite of them. Because every scene
in everything you write, whether it is a comedy or
a drama or a romance, has to be about conflicts. Now,

(28:17):
what most people think that is is absolutely not No.
What it needs to be conflict is as simple as
if you take it from like a Sherlock and Watson.
It's as simple as Sherlock Holmes has a big, fancy
brain that thinks like a computer. He's very logical, and
he doesn't quite understand people. Watson doesn't understand this man well.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
And Watson unders the conflict people because he's a doctor.
He has a great bedside manner, he has a wife.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
And here's the other kicker. And this is again I
go back to Conan DOYLEA has to be a great
writer because there is I think a very specific reason
why Watson is an army vet.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Tell me why it is.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Because you put Sherlock Holmes, the ultimate loaner with an
army vet. What does the army do? It puts you
into a group of people that you have to bond
and work with, no matter what. If you're a vet,
you're the ultimate joiner. So it puts the ultimate loaner
with the ultimate joiner.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Wow, I would have never can hear that?

Speaker 2 (29:21):
So that's what that again, is another form of conflict.
Like you have Watson that generally trusts people and is
willing to work. It's why he's like friendly with Gregson
and Lestrade and Selanck's get out of my face, you know,
honestly like justice for Lestrade.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
I love Lestrade. I think he's a great character.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
I've been different on both of them. I can go
either way on an. Every time Gregson shows up, I'm like,
give me a straw. I like Lestrade because it's interesting
because yeah, when you go back to the television show Elementary,
they go Gregson and then like wow, strong words, and
then you couple. There's some people that we should not
you should not say that to. Yeah, they'll be fine

(29:58):
with it, and it's not personal. It's my prefer they're
still getting he's about about you. I know you're going
to bring up BBC, BBC. It's a it's it's a straw.
But BBC Sherlock.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Their character's name is greg Lestrade, so they are eating
their cake and having it too.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Nice character. I really actually like I like that little detail.
But okay, let me to your question. You didn't let
me ask. I want to push out on the.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Sidekick thing writer TV writer, Yeah, sure, yes, come book writer.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Not as good, not as good.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
I read the comments, Then what is the value of
having an animal sidekick? Why would you give a character
And I'm not talking like Sabrina and Salem. I'm talking
like I'm sure, or I'm talking like Pocahontas and Miko.
I'm talking like Aladdin and a Boo.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Like.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
I understand there's a different in media you're aiming for
children versus adults, But like, why would you choose to
give a character an animal sidekick who can't speak instead
of another human being humanized beings?

Speaker 2 (30:57):
The discussion? What is an example of an animal psychic?
That's not a Disney movie? Because the Disney movie again
we're gonna we're gonna strip off the story. Yeah, the
Disney movie is merchandise.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Oh how how true? Okay, then then why do we
want to I have an example? Yeah, that's not they
are not currently owned to by this name. Sure, why
bother with crypto?

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Ah? Okay?

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Did I say that because I can see a Superman
cover out of the corner of my eye?

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Who could possibly say krypto want no? But I saw
the Superman and lowis landel Oh okay, I don't think
I have a crypto So okay. Interesting because I don't.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
I don't want to do Sabrina Salem, which I think
is very obvious example because Salem is just a human
being trapped in a castle.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Well, it's funny because I hate to I don't want
to like kind of like poo poo your point already.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
No, no, you please do.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
But when you look at Crypto was introducing like the
fifties or sixties, so it's kind of almost the same
thing as the Disney sidekicks. It's like it's from a
very similar Arab storytelling feel to kids. Yeah, but I'm
trying to come up with your question. This is without
coming with this specific example. This would be my idea, right,
My idea would be you give somebody an animal sidekick

(32:04):
because you want to you are committing to that they
are a loner and that their story is alone. That's fine.
There are lots of stories where it is the lone
wanderer loan. Yeah, great example, lone Wolf and Cub. I
was just gonna say that, right, Cub is a baby, Yeah,
does not speak. Go to the Mandalorian, which is a

(32:26):
rip off of Lone Wolf and Cub gro grou doesn't speak.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
We're not saying that by the way because you can't speak,
you can't communicate. They just don't speak.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
And he talks to lots of little little people yea.
And I think why you make that choices because you
are trying to You are very much wanting to show
how alone that main character is.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Ye And which is interesting because I think I think
great writers can achieve that in absentia of of yeah,
being alone.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
In a perfect version of that story, In a perfect
version of that story, you're only beginning, that character is alone.
And by the time but I always meet someone and
connect with them. And that's it's like it's like the
Logan movie. But yes, but by the yes exactly, it's
by the time you get to the end of the arc.
Even though that other character doesn't speak, of that animal
doesn't speak, that character is very much like, oh you
get me.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
I've learned empathy or sympathy.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
I do love you now. And in good versions of
that story.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Because because I'm also thinking now, I'm thinking it.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
John Wick when he learns to love the new dog.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yes, I'm thinking of like Frodo and Sam, because Frodo
and Sam Ritano.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Oh heare you call Sam an animal? No?

Speaker 1 (33:31):
But Frodo and samarch together for the whole book, basically
the whole trilogy of books, but Frodo is isolated, even
though Sam is physically present with him out there.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Weirdly, Gollum is almost an animal sidekick's evil bat He's
an evil, but they drag him around by a rope
for a lot of that sea.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
But they're another example of the id ego super ego
if you want to, if you want to, sort of
that way, almost an animal sidekick almost. Yeah, he's very animalistic, certainly. Okay,
writer brain, once again, sure, why is it important to
have this type of balance between two characters? Like why
not have a whole story of Sherlock Holmes or John
Watson's is or Iren?

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Do we like the stripped off answers?

Speaker 1 (34:12):
What do you mean?

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Well, because at this point, like we know nobody's listening,
we've already said that, so like, do we do we
like that? I'm like literally ripping off all your like
and just going to like here's the real reason, Yes,
for sure. Okay, So why don't you have a story
of all Batman's.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Or a robins are all night Wings.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Even all Superman's right? Yeah? Because they would be boring? Yeah, seriously, no, but.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
I I know that that's the answer. But I just
this is the thing that I see people asking.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Sure. I mean, because okay, so let's let's look it out. Okay,
let's let's do the movie x Men uh huh. From
the first movie right, it's it's Cyclops, It's Wolverine, Jean Gray,
story Storm, that's it right there, the Chorea and then
professor x Yakay, all right, that movie in Rogue and Rogue. Yeah,

(34:58):
you can count. Okay, let's put Rogan. They're sure you
could count roue and a pack one? Yes, from The
Affair Showtime's the Affair don't want Yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
What everyone knows her from. Everyone knows her from The
Good Dinosaur. That's yeah, she's one of the like, uh
redneck t rexes.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Is she really? Yes, she's the female one. Wow, I
know Sam Elliott was that Wow, we did you know?
We were to go to Good Dielight. By the way,
I like The Good Dinosaurs, so I don't care. I
love I made it my best movie of that year.
I will defend The Good dinast. I don't know she
was in the movie. Yes she has, because I interviewed
the Assair is the last thing I can remember seeing her,
and I'm certain she's been in other stuff, but the
Aair yeah, well was before that. Okay, So okay, so

(35:38):
we're going in a back wind rogue and all these
various people. Okay, you could tell that movie with six Wolverines,
Yeah right, you could do that where all those characters
are loaners who when they got their mutant powers, they've
joined an illegal fight ring and they're driving around an
r v's and every time a villain shows up, and
every time a villain shows up, they grit their and

(36:00):
they punch him in the face. Right, that's Logan. Yeah,
But if you do that, then what every scene of
the X Men becomes is remember there's that scene where
in the middle of that movie, the first X Men
v Rogue disappears, right, and they all had that confrontation,
and I remember Professor X, and I might just remembering
this wrong, so I'm just please forgive me, h Professor

(36:21):
X says something like, Logan, we can't go after her.
It's a trap. Magneto's trying to draw you out. Yes, yeah, right, yeah,
And and then what happens, Logan just goes anywhere, and
then we get the.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Scene on the train where they reconcile and then Magneto
takes kicks out of his money exactly.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
The all Wolverine version of that scene is like Professor X,
Wolverine is just like, yeah, it's a great idea. Let's
all go and punch Maggietto.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
On the face.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
And they're all like and the scene is just like
every it's like six people just being like, Yeah, that's awesome.
I'm gonna do it. No, I'm gonna be with like
a twenty four pack under there. But when you look
at it as is right, like that's the great thing
about like the choices they made. And you can see
this in multiple you see his fellowship, the Ring, you
can see this in a good version of Eve Avengers
stuff like that. You know, you have Wolverine, the ultimate loaner,

(37:07):
Cyclops the ultimate rule follower, but.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Also the old in a lot of ways, the ultimate
like legacy character sidekick because he's trying to step up
out of Professor's.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Sidekick Professor X. Yeah, you have Professor X, who's the
dad mentor you have jing Jean.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
The the loose cannon.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
I was gonna say sort of like I've got I
was gonna say the Angeny. Really I kind of think
she's she doesn't really have that much. She's sort of
the doctor. But yeah, but I'm gonna say the Ogeny
because shes sort of the love it. Yeah. Yeah, you
have a Storm who is like secretly the most powerful
person but it's.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
It and in and in not the X Men movie,
she's like the elder stateswoman, right, Like she's the sort
of smart strategist of this.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
And then you have Rogue, who is sort of the
rookie character, right, So like you get all these different
viewpoints on how to handle this issue, whereas again, if
you had seven logans, they just be like, drink a
beer and get over it, and that would be every scene.
And again then every scene has no conflict. Yeah again
you want you need a Robin to tell Batman, hey,

(38:09):
I think you're punching him too hard. Yeah, you need
a Watson to tell Sherlock, Hey, I know you don't
like Lestrade, but he's helping us. Well, okay, let me
ask you. Let's go.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Let's go to Batman. Because the short of secondary example
that we've been carrying throughout, well, then what happens when
you bring in a character like Jason Todd, who's a
looser cannon and who is a devil on the shoulder
instead of an angel on the shoulder.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
So why would you choose to explore that relationship? Well, okay,
so that is primarily a thing because we or has.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Jason Todd become a foil to Dick Grayson.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
No, no, no, no, So that I actually think is
when you're inverting so so that is still a foil,
that is still a partner. But what you're doing then
is you're kind of making Batman the heart look more
human and you're making Robin the brain. You're making you're
making Robin tough to make Batman so soft.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, it's it's sort of like what Morrison explored when
Jamie and d Yeah, it's a sort of.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
In version of that. But it's also because you wouldn't
want your second Robin to basically be exactly like Robin. Now,
of course, just what they.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
Did, and that's why he does now and now I
want to acknowledge that was a ret con.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
I also want to acknowledge that every nerd is out there. Well,
when Jesus did for but the writers recognized what they
were doing and they they understood that they had to
make this character different from Dick Grayson, which is the
reason why Tim Drake is different from Jason Todd. It's
why Damien is different from Tim Drake.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Steph who I have absolutely respectful.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, so far with everybody that's sort of been Robin,
they have, even Stephanie Brown, they've been different, Yes they have.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yeah, there's too many of them, but they've much done
a good job at differentiating their personalities in their funcation.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
It's always like the thing I say about stories, and
I sometimes I think about this with stories is I
always think about stories have to do kind of two things.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Stories have to one make you feel something. It doesn't
matter what you feel. Yeah, it just has to make
you feel happy, sad, you know, like excited, Like.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Even things that frustrate you, even things that you don't enjoy.
If it's gotten a reaction out of you, it served
its function.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Look, Requiem for a Dream is a rough movie, and
it's sort of a running gag between me and Ashley
because every time we see it in the wild, I'm like,
I want to watch Requiem for a Dream. I hate
it because it is a tough watch. But you walk
away from that movie being like, oh my god, I
good god. I hope that never happens to me. That's
and you know what create a reaction to you, So

(40:35):
that means I think it's good. Yeah. The second thing
is is that we as human beings create patterns in everything.
That's why we can talk about a foil as a trope,
our lives, everything like that. So I always say a
good story is a pattern that you can recognize that
happens in a way you didn't.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Predict, in a surprising way, has one little twist in it.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah. It's so like it's always about like manipulating those patterns.
And that's why I keep bringing up these tropes where
I'm like, once you like have written enough stuff or
you've studied enough stuff, you can start seeing the patterns.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Like it's like it's like it's like when you've beene
watched thirty six episodes of reality TV show, You're like, oh,
I understand how what the plot of every.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Episode is going to? You can you can figure? Yeah?
Reality tell me to saying that you can. You can
start seeing like it's like it's like the mystery and locks.
Yeah you know.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Okay, we've talked about what if you had six wolverines
in a thing?

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Did you think that was gonna happen? In six wolverines?
That's an old You can bring me six wolferenes. You
want wolverines? Absolutely? How many stones do you think that
would be? Six? Six people? What do you know? How
much does a wolverine? Way? I don't have any clue.
Bring me wolverine. I'll google that and i'll tell you
after the brain okay, And.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
But we're now we're going to talk about what happens
if you only have one wolverine?

Speaker 2 (41:50):
What?

Speaker 1 (41:50):
But we're gonna do it right after this. Okay, we
are back on geek history lesson, and we are going
to explore how much does a wolverine?

Speaker 2 (41:58):
Way? Okay, So I will tell you if you put
into Google immediately what does a wolverine weigh? It is
going to tell you two hundred and ninety two pounds,
which I saw, and I mean it was like, that
is not true because Google's automatic?

Speaker 3 (42:13):
Is that?

Speaker 2 (42:14):
To Jackman? Why is the character not the animal? Oh?

Speaker 1 (42:17):
They put away like thirty pounds.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
So I had to I said that how much does
a wolverine the animal weigh? An adult can weigh from
twenty to fifty five pounds. Okay, So if we're assuming
fifty five pounds, let's say it's a chunky wolverine. Six
of those are three hundred and thirty pounds, which I'm
gonna assume at this point is a thousand stone.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
So six wolverines would be six thousand stone.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Sure, why not? Fantastic? Okay? I tease, I tease with
the wolverine metaphor, and I'm sure everyone is lost in it.
So six wolverine. We we sort.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Of talked about, like what have you had a bunch
of watson'sses? What would that look like? And a bunch
of home ziz? But what happens when you strip away
the other side of a litter Foyle and Jason, I'm
particularly interested in what you have to say about this because, uh,
and we don't have to go down spoiler territory or
anything like that. But that's what Watson he is exploring

(43:10):
in the first season, and that's what this character is
emotionally going through. It's like, who is he an absentia
of his relationship to Sherlock Holmes. So as a writer,
you know, what what's the value and how do you
explore a character when you remove them from their literary foil.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
So the interesting thing about that is that I would say,
and I will first off say, like I will answer
the Watson CBS answer. Yeah, sure, Yeah. So the interesting
side of that story is that you have to show
them who are they without that character. We've seen lots
of versions of that. To go back to the Batman
or Robin, we have seen the Dick Grayson knight Wing

(43:47):
version of that without Bruce Wayne. Yeah, We've seen Tim
Drake do solo Robin. We've meant, we've seen that like
what is what is who is Dick Grayson Robin?

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Without Bruce Wayne Batman, Well, he stepped up and he
becomes Batman himself. The end waits the gosh dang Justice Leader. Yeah.
So doctor John Watson on the CBS is Watson is
kind of the same thing where he's like a big
thread that my shore runner Craig Sweeney put into the
show is Watson is constantly going to be am I Worthy?

(44:21):
Am I Worthy? An equal of Sherlock Holmes.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Which is something that I will note that you and
I in particular really love seeing and we love that
about Dick Grayson. We love that about Wally West, We
love that about Kyle Rayner.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yeah, and so like that is a big sort of
like emotional thread of this season, and it plays into
a lot of the episodes it plays in. It plays
into my episode a lot too, and the pilot as well.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
I would be curious because I've never been tasked with this,
which is more difficult and maybe ultimately more rewarding, is
to find the balance between two characters like this, or
to have to sort of design them in a solo story.
And because you're still trying to fill that void just
by a different tact of storytelling.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Can you give me a version of that? I guess
I'm stumbling on your question.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
I would be curious if I was tasked to write
two Holmes books, okay, and one of them was like
you have to write one with Holmes and Watson, I'd
be like dope, and I would.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
And then you got to write woman that's just about what?

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Just about?

Speaker 2 (45:15):
Yeah? And like, how would you in the first book
probably go out of your way to make sure that
you were illustrating that and giving them both, serving them
both versus like you have to fill if you take
Sherlock away, you have to still fill that Sherlock void
in different whether it's in that type of story you're telling,
in the characters that you're bringing in.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
I'm just curious if you were doing both which was harder.
And I know you haven't necessarily done it, but we.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
With that thing. It's on the Watson TV show. It
is kind of a thing because the new characters that
are in the cast, who I won't tell you that
much about it.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Ye, yeah you can.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
You can find all the amazing actors online there. The
character names are out there, but that's the role they feel.
But and they sort of do that as a group,
so like as a group they become like the missing
Sherlock piece.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Yeah, I will say if you were asking which do
I want to write?

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Which would you write?

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Which do I think is easier and harder? I think
the Watson only story is way easier. Really, I think
the Sherlock and Watson story is harder. That's fastening. Yes,
every Sherlock and Watson story you write is going to
be compared to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle no matter what
you do. That's true.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
Whereas if you do some wild tact if you write
the Irene Adler story.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
If you write Watson on your own, you can do
whatever you want and there is no comparison. The only
comparison you're gonna get is just people gonna be like
Watson acts a little different from that Sherlock Holmes story.
But if you write a Sherlock Holmes and Watson's story.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Straight up classic adventure, another story from the case book,
we've never heard before.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
And here's the kicker. The other reason why I wouldn't
want to write that is because there have been a
million pastiches done by better writers than me, including Nicholas Meyer,
the director of Ratha Kahan wrote a whole bunch of
those in the seventies and they're pretty damn good. Yeah,
So like I would, I Defael has one. I don't
want to put myself on that pedestal with those guys. Yeah,
who I know are better writers.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Look, I will also say, as someone who's read a
lot of Sherlock Holmes past, he's just a lot of
way worse writers.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
But I would, Yeah, I would. I think I would
go with the Watson story because it's such uncharted territory.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Okay, Yeah, I want to ask you this, Jason, because
I often think that John Watson's intelligence is overlooked. It's
underestimated because he spends all of his time standing next
to Sherlock Holmes. And in my opinion, one of the
reasons why John and Sherlock are such a good pair
is because if you take John away, you just have Microft,

(47:32):
And to me, Microft is a way less interesting character
than Sherlock. I also don't ascribe to the belief that
he's smarter than Sherlock. I do not believe that.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
I think they're equal.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
But like, John Watson is a doctor, highly educated in
the nineteenth century or by today's standard. He is an
ex soldier, an ex officer, so like he would have
had a level of training and strategy. Like he's a
really smart guy. And there are there are different point
points throughout the books where Sherlock says that he respects

(48:04):
Watson's insights even if he's like, well, they're still not
as good as mine, Like he goes out of his
way in Hown to the Baskerbill to point that out.
He goes out of his way and Scandal in Bohemia
to point that out, by the way in the Book Club,
in Our Patreot, in Our discord on our patreo.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
We haven't shout out the Patreon yet.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
We haven't. I'm sure I'm choosing this exactly wants to.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Do it.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
M slash Jaway last October jw I in we do
this cool thing. If you join at one of the
discord levels, we do a quarterly prose discord. We're thinking
about starting a manga discord this year, so if you're
a manga girl, he come and join us. But we
spent three months breaking down hown to the Baskert Bill.
We had a wonderful time there. We did a video

(48:44):
chat at the end of it. So if you, first
of all, if you want to come join the best
discord of the whole ding dang Internet with the coolest
group of people, and you want to read along with us,
we do classics, we do contemporary. Everyone votes on these.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Another cool thing that we do over there we should
just shout at is we do this extra podcast every
week called JJL Extra. We do you do that and
this week the episode is going to be about me
my time working on Watson or writing on Watson. Yeah,
we're gonna go. We're not giving any spoilers away because
we want you enjoy the show, but we're gonna give
you know behind the scenes sort of like you know,
I'll tell you what it was like working on the show.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
So come and join us, especially specially if you want
your lock talker. So what's sherlock stuff going on?

Speaker 2 (49:22):
This week?

Speaker 1 (49:23):
At patreon dot com slash jawin again jaw.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Thanks to everybody over there there already does.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Yeah, you're beautiful, sexy people, and we'd love you the most.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
That and one, do you tell us what the hell
at Stone is? Please? What's the Stone? I'm not Emma Stone,
I know who I know what that is. That is
a stage name of the actress Emily Stone, and that
is beautiful. Do you like her new haircut? I haven't
seen it. Oh it's she's got a pixie cut. Now
it's really don't leave me mystery, don't. I'm going to
google us right now, but keep talking great? How me Stone?

(49:54):
Do you think she wais one? Don't? I don't know
how much.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
A stone is. So I just wanted to I just
wanted to say that that I do think John is
smarter than people give him credit for. At first blush
and that's uh. Just to go back to the Watson
TV show. But that's something I'm really interested in seeing
it explored a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
It is cute. I wonder she's doing what movies doing.
She just wanted short hair. That's true. Yes, And here's
the other kicker, if you want to like follow that
through in the fact that like and again, Conan Doua
didn't do this, but it's there. You can see it.
He's a good enough writer that he's doing it subconsciously. Yeah,
as Sherlock becomes more human as the story is from

(50:32):
the course of the second story, and he becomes friendly.
That's the superpower that he learns just by being around John.
John becomes smarter, Yes.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
And particularly at one point John opens his own practice
again right after.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
He can become better to marry. He becomes a better detective,
and he craffers.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
He becomes more current on his medical knowledge, so he
also is able to like drop more interesting things, like
I will.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Put this out there. I actually think by the end
of their adventures that if doctor John Watson was to
go out and about in the uh, because they make
it all the way to the nineteen twenties, don't they
in the books. Yeah, let's say like in the nineteen tens,
John Watson is like, I'm gonna go out and do
some solo detecting the adventures my own. I think he

(51:18):
would be the equal of Sherlock Holmes, and in some cases,
depending on the case, especially cases they had more of
an emotional background, I think he'd be better than Sherlock
atsolving them because I think he would see the human
element in a way that Sherlock would not. Yeah, Sherlock
hat's a crying woman in all don't you don't spend
that much time. It happens in all of our lives. Yeah,
when you spend several years with somebody, you pick up

(51:42):
their skills and their traits subconsciously. And if you don't,
you're just not paying attention. I don't know what's going
on there.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
So just if anyone was wonderings, Jason's mentioned a couple times. Canonically,
the last story of Sherlock and Watson together that we
see bow No, no, it's his last bow is the
one it's the end of one of the Short's re collects. Canonically,
the last story is the Adventure of the Shoshcombe Old Place.
I'm probably mispronouncing that, and that book per Cannon takes place,

(52:12):
that story takes place in nineteen twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Yeah, because Shearlock is already a beekeeper at that point,
I believe.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Yeah, nineteen twenty seven, by the way, same year that
my grandmother was born, my maternal grandmother, so she crossed
over with SHERLOCKO.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
My grandfather was born in twenty six.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
He crossed over with SHERLOCKO and.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Sidebar.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
When you were a little person, did you ever think
that Charlocke Combs was real?

Speaker 2 (52:34):
No?

Speaker 1 (52:34):
I used to think Charlie Comes as a real person
really when I was a kid.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Yeah, okay, Now did you think that he was in
England at the time you were alive? No? No, No, I
knew in the past.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Yes, I thought he was like a real person in
the past that they wrote books about.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
Really, yeah, I really that's kind of charming. Really, that's
kind of cheremy.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
So that's a window into the brain of little Ashletty dude, Right, Jason,
do you think that Charlock Combs considers John Watson a friend?

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yes? Sorry, right, just digging a little.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
Further into that, or maybe a little more broadly, I
guess if you want to, if you want to take
that away So do you think, because you were saying
that you have disagreed with me on the Hamlet layerties
of it all?

Speaker 2 (53:19):
I do.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Do you think that in order to be foils, characters
have to have a good relationship with each other? Do
you think enemies can be foils?

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Yes? I actually think enemies are better foils than friends.
You know, I'm gonna bring an old reference kids, just
because we're currently rewatching it. Two of the best foils
ever are Sam and Diane from the sitcom Cheers hot Take.
I can't stand but that's why there's such good foils,

(53:46):
because I love and hate each other so much. Yeah,
at the same time, yeah, it's probably was true with
the Crazier and ros Well, they're not really foils. Actually
the Fall the foils in that show are Nile and Fraser.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
No, no, no, it's definitely frasieran Roz because Fraser is
like the snooty intellect and Roz is the.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Working class streets. I don't know if, but this is
again again, I've never thought of Sherlock and Watson as foils.
I do think I do think antagonists make better foils.
That's interesting. It's as much as I hate this character.
It's the Joker in Batman.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Absolutely, it's a joker Batman, yeah, Lex.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
And Superman, Yeah, you know, Hiccup in whatever Viking he
fot and movie number two of Train. You know Jack
O'Neill from Stargate and Ball the System Lord from Target
and if you if you watch Stargate, you know that reference.
I love there are perfect foils.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
Oh dare you, Jack O'Neill, Ball, You're going out?

Speaker 2 (54:47):
I always dare, always dare. That's so good. Yeah to me,
foils are like the ones that like it's it's that
Frank Miller has a great line in The Dark Knight
Returns where it's that final story where like and there's
this line has sort of echoed in The Dark Knight
Christopher Nolan movie, where Joker says to Batman, He's like,

(55:07):
oh I love you. We could do this for years.
Oh yeah, you know. It's like it's like you hate
the person as much as you love them. And it's
funny because like, I don't know if I ever get
the sense that Sherlock and Watson hate each other, like
I'm certain.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
That, like I mean, there is there are several short
stories where Sherlock is such a dick to John that
John's like, I'm going away for a while.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
And look, let's say and I understand that also Conan Doyle.
There's a lot of stories because again it's written in
the nineteenth century, there's a lot of stories where Watson
is just window dressing. Yeah, so that Charlock can be
like listen to how smart I am Watson? Yeah, you know,
But I don't know. I think they're annoyed by each other.
But I don't know that they hate. No.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
I actually I think we've talked about this on the
podcast before. I think they love each other. And I
don't mean that in that I think they want to
sleep together.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Like there.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
This is something that was lost in like the mid
twentieth century, this love, this brotherly love. And I don't
mean in that someone who has a blood relationship of you.
But it's like Froto and Sam love each other and
would and would die in each other's arms for each other.
But it's not because they want to make out and
because we lost that. And I'm not sure at what

(56:21):
point in the evolution of toxic masculinity.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
This Patrand it was so it was in the sixties,
the fifties and sixties. It's it's the it's the what
that book, what's the book that that congre that came seduction? Yeah,
it's that book, but it's the it's the idea that like,
to me, that's that's that's Sherlock and John. It's like
they like like they would die for each other, and
they would they would be like, I love you, you're

(56:44):
my brother. It's it's like Eric Gordon BORI remember my brother,
my captain, my king and now and this is what
has opened up shipping from the female perspective is people
are like, uh, some women look at a relationship like
that and they're like, oh, well they're in love, and
it's like, no, they love each other, they are not
in love with each other. And then men look at
that and when they're very rude, they go no homo,
and you're like, but it wasn't even there. Gona gin with, Yeah,
it's the whole idea of The Batman sixty sixth television show,

(57:07):
where they were like, we have to introduce Aunt Harriet
because there's no possible way that this eighteen year old
boy Dick Grayson and this and this thirty year old
man Bruce Wayne can live in the same house and
not be kidding. Yeah, and you're just like and and
you know what, I'm sorry, Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne
love each other. Yes, because another family, because you can
love a person like a brother. Yes, you know it

(57:31):
is possible. Yes, And like in my mind's that's Watson
and Sherlock. Yeah, Sherlock and Watson love each other. I
actually think it happens. I would if I were to say,
like where in the stories yea, to me, it's like
four or five stories before the Richenbock falls that's where
they love each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah, somewhere in the
Adventures of Like that's where it flips where Watson's like, oh,
I really like this guy. Yeah, he is my best friend. Yes,

(57:54):
you know, and I think before that he's just like,
I mean, I like him, but damn he pisses me
off side although not it's interesting again, it's I'm just
still trying to wrap my head around the foil thing.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
They're foils that foils, and so it's especially sons, What
in your mind is the difference between a perfect sidekick
and a perfect supporting character if any.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Oh, that's so interesting. A perfect sidekick has I think
equal screen time. Uh huh, and the sidekick has to
be looked at as the equal. At certain points, you
can still have your main character be the hero guy. Yeah,
but like Spock is very much the equal of Captain Kirk. Yes, yeah,

(58:41):
McCoy is very much the equal of Kirk. I'm trying
to think about some other examples here. Robin is definitely
the equal of Batman. Yeah, you know, that's what I
think you have to And I think if you're not
seen as the equal, your a supporting character, like Lois
is the equal of Superman. Yeah, Jimmy is not the
equals super Okay, I don't forgive me Jimmy. I do

(59:04):
not know these characters names. Go for it. In Jurassic Park,
Uh uh, you're talking Aboutlaura Dern and Samuel Yes, doctor
Grant and God, I couldn't tell you her name.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Like you, would you classify one of them as a
sidekick or a suborting character or would you call them both?
Would you call them co leads?

Speaker 2 (59:19):
They're co leads. They're very much co leads because they
spend because it's interesting. Because to me, she's Ellie, Ellie.
I couldn't tell you the doctor her doctor. I should
give her her royal due because I know him as doctor.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Grant Sadler, doctor Ellie Sadler.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. Yeah,
Slimar Stephen Ray Morris is like they're talking about Jurassic Park.
I only like the first movie, and I don't like
the rest of them.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
I'm only seen the first movie.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
But I love the books. I read the books. I
love my Craton. They're equals because they spend the story
separate and then they carry the stories on both sides. Okay,
that's so to me. I don't think they're sidekicks. They're
literally partners. Yeah, I was. It's interesting. I'm trying to think,
are you trying any other any other relationships like duo

(01:00:04):
as you think like fit out that remark, like Doc
Brown and Marty McFly are not partner or sidekick like
a lot of people would be like Marty's the sidekick,
and it's like no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
There, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Because the story is very much the very The story
is very much Marty's in the way that the Sherlock
stories are Shrlock's. But like Doc Brown is so important
to those stories, you cannot make that story about Doc Brown.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Yeah, like it's it's just it's tough because.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Very old references here should we throw up? I mean
I put it how to Train your Dragon? So get
out of here, people. Sure I came to the twenty
first century.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Look in squid Get No, no.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
No, squid Game is definitely just the lead character. Definitely. Well,
let me tell you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
You season two. I've seen the spoilers. I haven't, I haven't,
and I will not. Everybody's everybody watching season two. I've
seen the clips. I've seen the spoilers, and there is
a definite uh part ship and sidekick roll in season two.
It's kind of a I'll tell you for I don't
want to spoil it. You don't have to tell me.
I don't care, Okay, I tell you that, I don't care.
There's a there's a Watson Sherlock relationship in season two,

(01:01:11):
and it's surprising who the Watson is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
I don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Everybody seems squid Game season two knows what I'm talking about,
and they're going crazy right now.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
I don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
I bought him back as no no, here you go.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
This is a reference from like I don't know two
thousand and two or whatever. In Spirited Away, uh, she
hero is clearly the lead and Haku is the sidekick character.
But without Haku, there's no like he's so integral to
her evolution in the spirit world into getting her home,
Like you can't do it without Hockey. Let's go to

(01:01:42):
avatar their growth together, they're all partners.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
They're like, there's no I don't are kind of the
sidekick Katara is to. It's Ang's story. They are integral,
but it's a story, a story. Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Think Legend of Korra try tries to expand that, but
it's still the same thing because them being avatars puts
them on a pedestal above the rest of them.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
It does it makes them the special case. It's the
same thing.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Like I'm like, I'm trying to go through animes and
I'm like, well, card type of soccer is the same thing,
Like Soccer is the lead and like Lee is her
main sidekick. Or it's like in Digimon it's like tai
Chi is the lead and Yamato is the sidehick, even
though he's the better character.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Sidekicks also often are the better characters. I will also
most of the time often yea.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
The more interesting characters because they can be more fallible.
They can, which makes them ultimately more empathetic and more
dare I say human like Spock? Again? Perfect like Spock
is the best character from all the star trek.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Okay, Jason, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
We've talked a lot about sidekicks and their rules and
what literary foils mean, so.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
I've people might say too much.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
They can get the heck out.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
They can give us five stars and write whatever they want.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
I want to ask you one final question.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Okay, final answer.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Does Sherlock Holmes need a doctor John Hamish Watson?

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Because without doctor Watson, Sherlock Holmes is just a stuffy,
arrogant sob.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Maggod x y.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
He's really smart, Yeah, he's really good at his job.
But he would be a very annoying character to read about.
And I'll bring it back to comic books again for
this read Richard's without the rest of his family of
the Fantastic Four. Absolutely, it would be a very annoying

(01:03:41):
character to read about. But because you have Sue who
loves him dearly, Ben who will protect him no matter what,
and Johnny who's going to drink a beer in the corner,
and Muck stuff up, he becomes interesting. Yeah, so without Watson,
Sherlock Holmes does not work, and Sherlock Holmes I don't
think would be I don't think we'd remember Charlotte Colmes.
You're still talking about Sherlock Holmes after like he's been

(01:04:05):
around for over one hundred years now, that is a
like legendary.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
Doyle's literally rolling in his grave.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Oh yeah, because he hated Charlock. Google what Charlotte Arthur
Conan Doyle thought about Charlock Holmes.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
He hated him. He would be horrified that we love him.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
He would he would be horrified that I just worked
on a show called Watson.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
No, I think you've actually be delighted by that. Also,
if you're googling, uh, Doyle. He believed in fairies, and
I highly encourage you to read his book on why
he believes the Fay.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
He loved it. He was friends with Houdini. Yeah, he was.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
He was also did some very bad things.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
He's a very problem with the human being.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
At the end of he's a fascinating human being as well.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
But no, Watson, Charlotte doesn't know work with Watson. Do
you agree?

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah, he's his only friend, his only friend.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
And that picture of Irene out there he keeps in
like the desk, and those are women and Toby like
those are his three friends.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Woman the woman exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Ye, just about as kind as he gets towards any
woman in the whole franchise.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
Yeah, he doesn't even remember her name, just calls her
the woman. He knows her name, I don't know. He
keeps her photographed. I don't know. He doesn't helps her
move to Florida though, that's body the tech to sound
very Shakespearean. Thee doesn't say he remembers her name. He
just says he calls her at the wall. Oh my god,
you're you are something right now?

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
So that's your That's our discussion on does Charlotte me
to watch?

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Say? I'm just gonna say, if you've been listening to
this podcast for a long time, or you've been listening
to this podcast for only like a couple of days. Uh.
Watson premieres on CBS Sunday, January twenty sixth. Working on
the show was a blast. It was a dream come true.
I've been a long time Charlock Holmes fan, and to
be able to even daintily touch the legacy of Sherlock

(01:05:51):
Holmes is pretty damn awesome. I mean, I also got
to briefly touch the world of Star Trek. So it's like,
you know, you know, I've been listening to this podcast.
You know, I've been working with this for a long time.
So like, please go tell your family, go check it out.
Off the AMC Championship Game Sunday, January sixth, and then
it's going.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
To be January twenty sixth.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
Oh what did I say six? Oh I'm sorry, Yeah, Sunday,
January twenty six and then it's going to be on
Sunday's around going forward, going forward around I think seventy
eight pm Pacific Center time, I don't know, somewhe around
eight o'clock after Tracker. That's where it's coming Sunday nights.
Check out Watson go clear on a paramount plus because

(01:06:31):
I would dearly, dearly love to have a season.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
And again, come over to J Jill Extra, where we're
going to get into some Watson specific.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
Mors Chestnut is our star is doctor John Watson, and
I will tell you he is delightful.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
There we go.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
He is delightful and ever vesant. Yeah, yeah, he's a
good Watson. Yeah, he's a good one. He's a good actor.
Can take I mean that. There's no argument there, there's
no there's no debate. He's a hottie. Oh did you
see that red suit at the Golden Globs? I saw
it in person, yea, I saw. Actually, it's funny. Morris

(01:07:04):
would find this conversation very funny. Maybe he'll listen. He's
a great Watson, So come please come check it out.
Go give it to some clicks and decide for yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Yes, all right, that was your episode. So now it's
time for what have we learned today?

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Oh? No, honorall.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
No, it's hoorall. See I can't remember. This is why
Jason's my once.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
Well, you ended the episodes, so I thought you were
just going to end the red What we learned? Go
to the honor roll. See that's the part where we
ask people to go over to Apple Podcasts and leave
us a five star review, and if they do, we'll
read their review live on the air because it helps
us in the Apple algorithm, because our lives are controlled
by algorithms. Now, do not test the algorithm. The algorithm
tells you to watch Watson on CBS.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Yes, So this episode comes to us from Frank J.
Leoni cool, who, by the way, sent me this message
specifying that you send this message to me on Instagram Instagram.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
We got a review on Instagram.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
On Instagram because he couldn't figure out how to send
me a screenshot from Apple Podcasts, so.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
This is the review that he first. I think that
he copied into Instagram and sent it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
To gey history until it also a podcast. I think
it's on an international Apple podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
If you're an international listener, you got to email it
to as a geek history lesson at gmail dot com,
along with an explanation of please explain what the hell
of stone is in terms of weight, and we will
read it in the first few future episodes. So I'm
not joking. We will, Yes, we will. Here's Frank J.
Leoni's review. Is he is he? Is he not married?
Is he related to Sergio?

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
I'm going to say yes. I'm gonna say yes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
Let's listen to Text.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
Men episode two. I listened to it the other day
and it's one of the funniest things I've ever heard
of my life.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Keep creating great content. Five stars.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
I think this is Jason's favorite, Sir.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
I love it of all times. I love it. I
love it, Sonny.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
Thank you so much, Frank.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
You That's our holiday special. Go check it out. Everybody.
Thank you first of all for writing the review, and
thank you for the love of text Men episode. I
do remember we were making Jason's entire Saturday reading this room.
Do you remember recording that episode? And at one point
I think text, what's the thing that Text doesn't think

(01:09:23):
is real? Like a state or something like no Antarctica?
He doesn't think Antarctica is real? And I will say
when recording that episode, the confusion on Ashley's face when
I made that joke, and it was clearly a joke,
I can see Ashley be like, does he believe that's true?
Ashley actually processed that in real time to be like,
does Jason not think Antarctica is real?

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
I know, and I know you know Antarked is real
because I asked you if you wanted to go there
and you said absolutely, absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
I didn't want to go through Drake's past. I don't
need to go to Hoff.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Here's what I remember about recording that episode. Sure, we
we pulled, we stopped recording, and we finished it up.
Jason tested to make sure that the audio I'll record
and everything. We were doing a little bit of bybye
chit chat with Omar, and I said, every time we
record with you, I just go Omer's really good at
improv and I'm not, and it's very intimidating every time
we record a Christmas episode with him.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
So that's what I remember.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
So I'm glad that our joy translated into everybody else's joy,
because sometimes I think it's too.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Yeah. Well, what I also remember is you can come
over to patreon dot com slash jawin and support us
over there, get some exclusive podcasts and everything like that.
You can follow Gee kish Lesson on Instagram where.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Ashley at gee History Lesson.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
And you can follow us now on Blue Sky. Yeah,
we're up geek History Lesson. Oh that's cool. It's the same. Yeah,
they don't have the same character restrictions, so we can
be Gee Kisser Lesson. That's great. Well, for the first
time ever, I'm over on Blue Sky now at Jason
inmem I precedents. Frankly, I know it's the first time.
That's what I've been jollin for years and years and years.
The first time I've been That's the reason why I
was never jawing on Twitter, and I'll never call it X.
I don't care is because in Instagram and all those

(01:10:55):
places I could never get I can never get Jason Emmon.
Now I can blue skies for me, baby, I'm fine, only.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Me finally, Yeah, you I love that for you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Where are you at on the sky or wherever? I mean?
Are you? Are you? Are you over in four chand
maybe I don't think I ever had a four Chan
user day. I think I just scrolled it. It's gonna
be scary. I don't want to be if it was
gonna be at angry hobbit. No, I can tell.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
I will not say out loud because I don't know
if there's still markers of it on the Internet, but
I could definitely tell you what it would have been
when I was fifteen.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Or over on like a tumbler or a live journal thing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Way before Tumblr. Baby.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
Yeah, where are you at in the internet?

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
I'm everywhere at Ashley V. Robinson come find me all right?

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
And Ashley here we are. Yes, we need this, by
the way, I want to throw out to our listeners.
Besides sending us an email at get cash us on
at gmail dot com, we need a sound effect for
what we have learned or a little music diddy. I
need a sound effect because you know, we've had this
sound effect for stick around, stick around, but we don't
do stick arounds anymore. We want to do what have
we learned today? So I need a little ditty or

(01:11:59):
something like that. And anybody that sends us a sound
effect at geekcash Lesson at gmail dot com, I'll send
you something fun. I'll send you a couple of comic
books and some art prints and some stuff. I'll give
you a swag bag, don't you worry, nice little ghl
pin for your troubles. Yeah, I'd love to play it.
I'd love to give you a shout out. So uh
for now, stick around, stick around? For what have we

(01:12:21):
learned today?

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
What have we learned today? Toley, We've learned that a
foil is a sword. John Watson has no middle name,
and nobody on the planet Earth knows what a stone is.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
I mean, not in America at least in the world,
in the whole planet. I also learned that wolverine waste
likens apparently, and if you ask Google, it's gonna tell
you the comic book character.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
I love the idea that a wolverine is like the
size of a small beer.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
That delights me to absolutely know ed. Thank you everybody
for listening to this week's geek history lesson. I'm Jason Inman.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
I'm Ashley Victoria Robinson.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Professor Ashley, will you please dismiss the class.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
The gay him as a phooh Watson. Class iss dismissed.

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