May 30, 2023 • 32 mins
Join Eveline Oehrlich and Eduardo Briceño, global keynote speaker, facilitator, and program provider, to discuss a framework for building a growth mindset culture.
Eduardo is a global keynote speaker, facilitator, and program provider who supports organizations in developing cultures of learning and high performance. Prior to that, he was the CEO of Mindset Works, the pioneer in growth mindset development services, which he co-founded in 2007 with Stanford professor Carol Dweck, Lisa Blackwell, and others, and led for over a decade.
Eduardo’s TEDx talk on growth mindset and TED Talk on the Learning Zone and the Performance Zone have been viewed over eight million times. His book, The Performance Paradox: Turning the Power of Mindset into Action, will be published by Penguin Random House in September. He is a Pahara-Aspen Fellow, a member of the Aspen Institute’s Global Leadership Network, and an inductee in the Happiness Hall of Fame.
The Humans of DevOps Podcast is incredibly grateful to be voted one of the Best 25 DevOps Podcasts by Feedspot.
Want access to more DevOps-focused content and learning? Join SKILup IT Learning to gain access to a toolbox of hyper-relevant skills in a convenient, online learning platform focused entirely on DevOps and IT with courses tailored to sharpen your IT and essential human skills.
Eduardo is a global keynote speaker, facilitator, and program provider who supports organizations in developing cultures of learning and high performance. Prior to that, he was the CEO of Mindset Works, the pioneer in growth mindset development services, which he co-founded in 2007 with Stanford professor Carol Dweck, Lisa Blackwell, and others, and led for over a decade.
Eduardo’s TEDx talk on growth mindset and TED Talk on the Learning Zone and the Performance Zone have been viewed over eight million times. His book, The Performance Paradox: Turning the Power of Mindset into Action, will be published by Penguin Random House in September. He is a Pahara-Aspen Fellow, a member of the Aspen Institute’s Global Leadership Network, and an inductee in the Happiness Hall of Fame.
The Humans of DevOps Podcast is incredibly grateful to be voted one of the Best 25 DevOps Podcasts by Feedspot.
Want access to more DevOps-focused content and learning? Join SKILup IT Learning to gain access to a toolbox of hyper-relevant skills in a convenient, online learning platform focused entirely on DevOps and IT with courses tailored to sharpen your IT and essential human skills.
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Episode Transcript
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Narrator (00:02):
You're listening to the humans of DevOps podcast, a
podcast focused on advancing thehumans of DevOps through skills,
knowledge, ideas, and learning,or the skil framework.
Eduardo Briceño (00:16):
This particular framework became really helpful
for them to align with eachother about how they wanted to
foster a growth mindset culture,and what it addresses is the
confusion that the way toimprove is to work hard, that is
simplistic and it gets us intotrouble.
Eveline Oehrlich (00:34):
Welcome to the humans of DevOps Podcast. I'm
Evelyn knowlage, Chief ResearchOfficer at DevOps Institute. I'm
skipping the introduction today.So we get more time with a very
special guest, who is a thoughtleader, author and very popular
keynote speaker on developingcultures of learning and high
performance. Up podcast titlefor today is exploring different
(00:59):
zones. Stay tuned. And today wehave with us and I have a
drumroll. Eduardo bird Sanyo,who is a very, very popular
keynote speaker as I mentioned.Hello, Eduardo.
Eduardo Briceño (01:13):
Hello, Evelyn's Great to see you. Great to be
here.
Eveline Oehrlich (01:16):
Likewise, very excited to have you on our
podcast today. So let me quicklyand I will read this in third
person. So this will feelstrange to you, Eduardo. So I'm
going to just share with ouraudience a little bit on your
bio. So Eduardo is a globalkeynote speaker, as I already
mentioned, facilitator andprogram provider who supports
(01:38):
organizations in developingcultures of learning and high
performance. Prior to that, hewas the CEO of mindset works,
the pioneer in growth mindsetdevelopment services, which he
co founded in 2007, withStanford professor Carol Dweck,
Lisa Blackwell and others, andled for over a decade before
(02:02):
that he was taking on investorswith Credit Suisse venture
capital arm, the sprout groupand served on several for profit
and nonprofit boards. It bordersTED talks on growth mindset, and
Ted Talk on learning zone andthe performance zone have been
viewed by over 8 million havebeen viewed over 8 million
(02:24):
times. And I'm one of them. Hisbook, the performance paradox,
turning the power of mindsetinto action, will be published
by Penguin Random House inSeptember of this year. He is
Behera Aspen fellow, a member ofthe Aspen Institute's Global
Leadership Network, and aninductee into happiness Hall of
(02:46):
Fame. Eduardo grew up inCaracas, Venezuela, he holds a
Bachelor degree in economics andengineering from the University
of Pennsylvania, as well as anMBA and MA in education from
Stanford University. Mostimportantly, he continues to
enjoy lifelong learning everyday. And that's exactly while
you why you are here, Eduardo,for our listeners to share your
(03:11):
experience and how to actuallydo that. So welcome again to our
podcast.
Eduardo Briceño (03:16):
Thank you, Evelyn. Great to be here. I feel
like we have kindred hearts. Ilook forward to the
conversation.
Eveline Oehrlich (03:21):
Yes, the first one. The first thing which I
really want to know, of course,everything else is exciting, but
happiness Hall of Fame. I didsome research and check that
out. You have to tell us aboutthat. What? What is that?
Eduardo Briceño (03:36):
Yeah, I didn't know either. And it is actually
one of the things I'm most proudof, because, to me, it
symbolizes a lot of change thatI have done in myself. I grew up
being very unhappy, actually.And I have really transformed
myself over a lot of years. AndI lead a very happy life now
(04:02):
with a lot of joy. And that's,that's involved a lot of change
in myself a lot of work inmyself. And so I was doing a
keynote once and afterwards, aman came to me and he said he
was the executive director ofthe happiness Hall of Fame. And
I hadn't heard of it either. Butthey had looked at my work and
the impact that they felt thatwas having on people and how I
(04:25):
was spreading joy. And theywanted to induct me into the
happiness Hall thing so that youknow that to me, was striking in
in symbolizing how much of achange I had made myself.
Eveline Oehrlich (04:37):
Wow. Fantastic. For our listeners,
check it out. There are Eduardois in great company out there.
There are a whole range of folksyou you got you listeners will
all recognize. So that'sfantastic. Congratulations for
being there. All right. So as Imentioned to you already, when
(04:59):
we did a little bit Have a precall. I'm a big fan of Professor
Carol Dweck work, particularlythe work around the growth
mindset. But I don't want toassume that everybody on
listening here has actually readher book mindset or is familiar
with. So why don't you sharewith us a little bit about what
(05:24):
a growth mindset is?
Eduardo Briceño (05:27):
Sure. And I'm glad you're asking that because
it's something that is reallyeasily to get distorted. It is
something that a lot of peoplehaven't heard about, like you
said, but also a lot of peoplehave, and a lot of people have
read the book you just mentionedMindset by Carol Dweck. It's
been a bestseller. But even forfor people who learn about
(05:48):
mindset and do work on mindset,and I'll start there. We, when
we ask people who think they'refamiliar with growth mindset,
what a growth mindset is, theyoften describe something
different, like they might say,it's, it means being open
minded, or it means working hardor persevering. And a growth
(06:12):
mindset is none of those things.A growth mindset is not
something we do. It's not abehavior. But it's a belief
about the nature of human beingsis the belief that we can change
the belief that our abilities orqualities are malleable, or we
can develop them. And the reasonso for example, if we think that
some people are natural leadersand others aren't, and that's
(06:33):
what determines whethersomebody's a good leader, that
would be the opposite of agrowth mindset is what we call a
fixed mindset about leadership.Or if we think that some people
are introverted, and othersextroverted, and that's fixed,
those are things that don'tchange, that would be a fixed
mindset. Versus we can work todevelop any of those dimensions
we can we can work to becomemore introverted, right, like
(06:56):
more mindful, more reflective,more more present more
comfortable in solitude, andmore extroverted, more, more
more in a state of enjoymentwhen we're with other people,
and great at conversation andgreat at being funny, or
whatever it is. So those that'sdifferent from a fixed mindset.
(07:16):
And a growth mindset is when wesee ourselves as fixed, or when
we see ourselves as able tochange. And the reason that
that's important, is that whatdoctor mindset with Dr. Dweck
research has shown and lots ofother researchers as well now is
that we will try to change thebehaviors is really hard if we
(07:37):
are in a fixed mindset. So if wethink that we can't change, then
telling somebody, you know, towork hard, or to be open minded,
or to try to experiment beyondthe known that doesn't tend to
work if people are thinking thattheir abilities are fixed, or
that other people's abilitiesare fixed. And so we need to
work on both changing ourbeliefs about the nature of
(07:59):
ourselves and others, andchanging our behaviors and
habits. And those two things gohand in hand.
Eveline Oehrlich (08:06):
Interesting. I love that. I wish this book I
haven't really checked, if thatbook is also in German. I have a
few colleagues who potentiallyshould read this, because we
just had this conversation onthese assumptions. And I felt
that they had a very fixedmindset. So but I would love
(08:29):
them to read it in German. Iwill check on that.
Eduardo Briceño (08:33):
Later, too. I think you know, 17 languages, if
I recall correctly, yes. I betit is available in German and
lots of other languages.
Eveline Oehrlich (08:41):
I will do that research tonight and check with
our favorite retailer, if that'spossible, right. So let me know
I would like yeah, yes,absolutely. So how did you
actually get into the space ofdeveloping cultures of learning?
Eduardo Briceño (08:56):
Well, you know, the first time that I got into
learning, I think was a timethat we all got into learning,
which is when we when I wasreally, really young. When I was
a baby, when I was a young kid,I think all of us are passionate
about learning them, right? Ifyou look at a baby or young kid,
(09:16):
they're trying to get up or likecrawl and like failing and
trying again, and trying againand trying a different strategy.
Or they might be really lookingmesmerized at what we're doing
with our voice in making allthese sounds that seem to you
know, we seem to communicatewith each other and they don't
understand what's going on. Andthey're so interested and trying
(09:40):
to understand that eventuallythey come to understand language
and they come to to understandwhat it is that we're doing with
our mouths. That's incredible.And so, we have so many
questions, right? kids ask somany questions, but then what
happens is that we get to schooland in school I think what tends
(10:01):
to happen in school is tragicbecause schools haven't, the
goal of school hasn't been todevelop lifelong learners,
right? It hasn't been to ignitea fire for people to pursue
whatever path they want topursue, to experiment and
discover, rather, is being totry to teach people some things
(10:22):
that they might not beinterested in at the time. And
so we start associating learningwith something that's boring and
tedious and like something thatwe do in school. And when we're
home, we do it only when we'redoing homework, and when we're
done with homework, then we'redone learning, right, and we go
do something else. And so and sowe learn in school, that
(10:43):
learning sucks that learning isnot relevant, it's not useful.
And and we also learn to performall the time because so many
things in school are graded witha letter or a number that we we
we get the message that whatwe're supposed to do on a daily
basis is to do things well to dothings we already know how to do
(11:04):
to try to minimize mistakes. Andso I like many people, I
believe, I went from lovinglearning, to just trying to
perform and to show that I'mgood and to validate myself. And
I ended up you know, afterschool, like there's no more
tests and almost grades, but theway that the best way that I
(11:25):
could figure out to do well isto get a high paying job, right?
So I I went and I work in theinvestment banking in New York
City. And I know you, you youworked at Forrester Research
where you were in that kind ofsimilar world as well. Then I
got into venture capital, and Iwas investing in technology
companies in Silicon Valley. Andafter a few years of that, you
(11:47):
know, it was it was interesting,but after a few years of that I
realized I actually gotphysically sick. I was my I got
a repetitive strain injurycalled myofascial pain syndrome,
it was painful and difficult touse my hands to do simple things
like brushing my teeth or opendoors or driving. And I met
(12:07):
people with my condition who hadgotten so bad that they couldn't
use their hands for more than 10minutes a day. So I, I ended up
stretching for an hour and ahalf for every day for three
years and getting treatment ofall kinds. You know, I went to
Washington DC for six weeks toget a particular treatment every
(12:28):
day. So it was a big journey forme to heal. But one of the
things that I learned was that Ineeded to, I couldn't take my
hands for granted. I couldn'ttake my ability to do things for
granted. And so I needed to findsomething that I was passionate
about, and that I felt wasmaking a difference in the
world. And so I went to gradschool to build that different
(12:50):
path for myself. And over there.I met Carol Dweck. And I read
her book and I, she's my mentor.She's been my mentor for since,
you know, over 15 years, and herwork just learning about her
work, I realized how my fixedmindsets had gotten in the way
of my goals. I was selfsabotaging. I realized how I
(13:13):
needed to change my thinking andmy habits in order to really try
things that I hadn't done beforeand, and learn and develop
myself. And I realized how a lotof people could benefit from
those same insights that I wasgaining from Dr. Dweck. So we
partnered and co founded acompany called mindset works.
And I led it for over 15 years,my job became more and more
(13:35):
public speaking. And that's whatI'm focused on 100% for for the
last several years now. Wow.
Eveline Oehrlich (13:43):
fits very well with, with my belief in how we
want to lead our work in theDevOps Institute. Because,
again, if you think about whatwe do, I'm sure you probably
don't know, but I'll, I'll shareit with you and again with
others. We're trying to help.We're not trying but we are we
(14:04):
know we are helping ourcommunity members to learn. We
call it upskilling or skillbuilding, right. And we do this
by developing content, we dotrainings, we do certifications,
we have events, and weencouraged and fostered a fairly
tight community. We have over Ithink 90,000 or so fellow
(14:24):
followers on LinkedIn. I justlearned that today. And we hope
we can make a difference forthese individuals who want to
learn and grow but it ischallenging. And so when I went
off to help us give get someinsights in this learning and
growth, that's how I found youand I find your explanation on
learning and performance zonesextremely helpful. And I would
(14:48):
love for you to share a bit moredetails with our community
members to help them understandthese different zones. So please
do share with us. What are thezones Since you call them
learning zones and performingzones, and what what must we
know about them for our dailywork?
Eduardo Briceño (15:08):
Sure. So the learning zone and performance
zone came from when I, at somepoint, my work, businesses
started reaching out to mebecause they wanted to build a
growth mindset culture. And inthose workshops, in getting into
the conversations and trying tohelp them build a growth,
mindset culture, I trieddifferent frameworks and
(15:30):
different routes to theconversation. And this
particular framework reallyresonated and became really
helpful for them to generateinsight and to align with each
other about how they wanted tofoster a growth mindset culture,
and what the the the one thataddresses is the the confusion
(15:51):
that a lot of us have, that theway to improve is to work hard.
That is too simplistic, and itgets us into trouble. So the
reality is that there's gettingbetter at things or innovating
is not just about working hard.Because there's two different
types of hard work, there's hardwork to get things done as best
(16:14):
as we know how trying tominimize mistakes. That's what
we call the performance zone.But in order to improve, we have
to actually work to go beyondthe known and to ask questions
and to experiment and to dothings that may or may not work.
That's what we call the LearningZone. And it is by engaging in
the learning zone that we getbetter. So my book is called the
(16:34):
performance paradox toperformance paradox is the
counterintuitive fact that if weperform all the time, we hinder
our performance, we actuallystop ourselves from performing
even higher if all we're doingis performing. And that's that
is a paradox, but it's true. Andso what we need to do in order
to get better is to go beyondthe known and to do things like
(16:56):
when you talk about upskillingand skill building. Those are
the things that happen withgreat performers, right. So if
you look at a great athlete, forexample, if they're playing a
championship final, they'regoing to be focused on the
things that they do best, andthey're trying to minimize
mistakes and be if they have aweakness, they're going to try
(17:17):
to avoid that weakness in thatmatch. That's all for
performance. And because theonly goal during the match is to
try to win the game. But whatthey do after the game is the
learning zone right after thegame, if they were having
trouble with a particular move,they're gonna go to their coach
and say, Coach, I need to workon that particular move. And
that's a very different activityand area of attention than what
(17:40):
we do during the match. Right,it's actually completely
different. And it is what theydo in the learning zone that
allows them to perform so well,in court in the performance only
if they're only playing games,then they get stuck, right, they
don't get better, in fact thatthe Williams sisters, which
became the best in the world,Valium played any championships,
(18:01):
any games. For years before theyturned professional, they were
just in the performance zone,sorry, in the Learning Zone. So
the learning zone can be a purelearning zone, like taking a
course, or you know, doing youknow, reading is a pure learning
zone activity. But we can alsointegrate these two zones so
that we do them together so thatas we're getting things done,
(18:23):
we're doing things in a waythat's also going to lead to
insight and to new skills andstrategies and to getting
better. And so it's a byintegrating these two zones. We
we can get better while alsodoing all the things we need to
do in our long to do list.
Narrator (18:43):
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(19:04):
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(19:26):
our community now.
Eveline Oehrlich (19:28):
So a quick side note for everybody
listening in. There are some twofantastic TED talks from Eduardo
one is called How to get betterat things you care about. Check
that out. The other one is thepower of belief. So listeners go
to the TED Talk, easy to find,and listen to it. Let's come
back to what you just said. Andthis is very specific to our, to
(19:53):
our folks in IT, particularlythe DevOps folks and others. We
do a lot of, well, a lot If it'sa little bit of an exaggeration,
we do something called a postmortem, right? Actually, it's
because it's such a nasty word,we have renamed it to call the
retrospective, because postmortem sounds like we're killing
something. But we don't want todo that, we want to actually
(20:17):
step back and look at what hashappened. And so that, I think,
is an excellent example of anintegration of a learning zone
and the performance zone. Wouldyou agree with that?
Eduardo Briceño (20:28):
Absolutely. Yeah. That's a great way to
integrate the Learn thelearnings and the performance on
the retrospective is a wonderfulstrategy. And it's also kind of
what you know, greatperformance, like athletes do,
right? They perform. And thenafterwards, they might watch a
video and see, hey, let's, let'sthink about how that game went,
and what can I learn? And whatdo I need to practice. So that's
the retrospective, in additionto a retrospective, think about
(20:52):
doing because retrospective,also, can be called an after
action review. That's a termthey use in the military. But
and that's great, that's allwonderful. But also consider
doing kind of mid actionreviews, something that happens
also kind of in the middle ofprojects, and as a habit, rather
than only when things go wrong.When when people make a mistake,
(21:16):
it's just we can always getbetter, right? And so whether it
is after projects, or afterthere's an incident, which is
wonderful to do think aboutalso, how can you do this
proactively and as a habit, sothat you're doing it all the
time regularly. And so it isnormalized is something that we
all want to be doing on aregular basis, because we can
all continue to improve.
Eveline Oehrlich (21:37):
And, and it becomes part of our day. Now,
that I guess is the challenge.Because, again, if I think of my
times in it, I didn't have a lotof time, it was very dynamic,
very fast paced, I had lots ofperforming to do, right. And
even so in, we encourage peopleto make mistakes and learn from
(21:58):
that. At the same time, becauseI'm delivering outcomes and
values and our lives deliverresults. It is very difficult to
actually combine those two andand and kind of integrate them.
Do you have any additional tipsfor people? What What can our
listeners do is just somethingwould you say? Do this once a
(22:19):
day or once a week or somethinglike this? Because everybody is
probably hungry, saying yeah,this sounds all great. This is
very theoretical, but be in myshoes one day, write anything
you would suggest?
Eduardo Briceño (22:32):
Sure. So first, yeah, there's there's so
strategies, I'll share a couple.But first, I want to start by
just recognizing the issue,which is that if we only stay
only worried about getting thetasks done, then over time,
we're going to make to be tohave a lot less time, right? If
(22:54):
we want to create time and makemore time both for learning and
for performance, then we have tofind ways to work smarter. And
to get more work more done, likemore important things done in
less time. And the way to findthat is to engage in the
learning zone. So so we have tofigure out a way to engage in
the learning zone, so that wehave more time, right so we can
(23:15):
create time. And and so ingeneral, one way to get started
is to do something as likedoesn't take a lot of time is
very, very quick. And that youcan do frequently. So rather
than try to say block two hoursevery Friday like which is
becomes really hard. It's betterto just spend like five minutes
(23:36):
a day doing something or evenjust one minute a day. Because
what that that Prime's a growthmindset and an interest. And
then it is it is very frequent.So we start building a habit,
and then it becomes easier to gofrom one minute to three
minutes, and from five minutesto 10 minutes, or then even
more. So just to change ourthinking as we're going about
(23:57):
getting things done throughoutthe day. So we're just paying
more attention to the thingsthat we can learn isn't isn't
doesn't really involve doingsomething differently. But it
involves paying attention to thethings that we can learn. In
fact, there's research thatshows that for people measured
people's mindset, so they askthem things like, Do you believe
(24:18):
that you can become smarter? Andfor the people who answered yes,
I believe I can become smarter.They looked at people's brains
inside of a brain scan machine.And they while they were solving
problems inside of the machine.And what they realized is that
people who thought they couldbecome smarter, so who had a
growth mindset aboutintelligence, their brain was
more active when they weregetting information about what
(24:41):
mistakes they made during theproblems. And so they learn from
those mistakes, and they weremore effective in solving
subsequent problems. So theybecame better problem solvers,
because they paid more attentionto our mistakes. And they pay
more attention to mistakesbecause they thought they could
become smarter. And so theyweren't spending any more time
solving problems. They were alljust solving problems. but some
of them were paying attention towhat they could learn and others
(25:03):
weren't. And that made all thedifference. But some something
that is very simple that anybodycan do. And I think it's really,
really powerful is to build ahabit to every morning remind
ourselves of what it is that I'mworking to improve. We're like,
what one thing am I working toget better at right now and, and
review that every morning. Andwhat that does is first, it
(25:27):
makes sure that you're alwaysworking at improving something,
a that be that's top of mind sothat you're thinking throughout
the day and identifyingopportunities to improve so that
when something comes up, you'relike, oh, that's relevant to
what I'm interested in and youpay more attention to it right?
And then it Prime's a growthmindset, it Prime's the reminder
that we can always continue toimprove and develop ourselves.
(25:51):
And so it gets us to thinkdifferently throughout the day,
every day. So that's just oneexample of something simple that
we can all do.
Eveline Oehrlich (25:57):
Perfect, fantastic. I am going to make
that for myself important. Solet's talk about quickly on the
upcoming book, the performanceparadox, turning the power of
mindset into action. It'sreleasing September 5 2023. Give
us a few things, what to lookout for what's in that book, I
(26:20):
already ordered it. So I'llshare with everybody else how to
preorder it but give us a littlebit of a like two minutes on,
what can we find in it? Sure.And
Eduardo Briceño (26:31):
thank you for pre ordering. And and yes, it's
available for preorder in anybookseller now. And yeah, I'll
describe a little bit thestructure that sounds good,
because it also gives people anidea of what kinds of things we
can all work on in order tobecome better at learning and
performing. So the book is hashas three parts. The first one
is driving individual growth,which is about individual growth
(26:54):
and the foundational ideas. Parttwo is about overcoming the
performance paradox in teams andorganizations. So how do we
create strong teams andorganizations? And part three is
from individual transformationto global impact? So how do we
take everything we're learningand apply it in the performance
zone and apply it to changelives. So in part one, about
(27:14):
individual growth, like ChapterOne is about the performance
paradox, which describes whatthe challenge is the problem.
Chapter Two is the solution,which is about the two zones
that we talked about thelearning zone and the
performance zone. Chapter Threeis about integrating the two
zones so that we do themtogether, right? So instead,
it's not about learning by doingbecause we don't learn by doing,
(27:37):
but it's about learning whiledoing how do we change the way
we do things in order to, toalso improve? Chapter Four is
about six essential learningstrategies that we can all use.
Chapter Five is about mistakes.And mistakes are interesting,
because mistakes on one hand, weknow that we can learn from
mistakes, and on the other hand,mistakes, lower performance. And
(27:59):
so Chapter Five is about gettingmore and more nuanced
understanding of mistakes andgetting clear about how can we
elicit mistakes in a way that'sgoing to increase learning, but
also increased performance aswell. And when do we want to
avoid mistakes. Chapter Six isabout common misconceptions
about learning and about growthmindset that gets in the way of
(28:21):
growth. Chapter Seven is about aframework called the growth
propeller, which is the five keyelements that drive growth that
any of us can work on in orderto become stronger learners and
performance. And those are ouridentity, our purpose, our
beliefs, our habits, and ourcommunity. And so that's part
one of the book. Part two isabout teams and organizations.
(28:43):
So chapter eight is aboutvisions of a strong learning
organization with examples ofvery, very strong learning and
performing organizations.Chapters nine and 10 are about
teams, chapters, 11 and 12, areabout how to lead for growth to
leadership. And finally, thethird, the final part of the
(29:04):
book, chapter 13, is about theperformance zone, what can we do
in the performance zone in orderto perform at our best, and
chapter 14 is about howovercoming the paradox changes
lives. So not only can we get tobetter destinations, and to
improve and to increase ourresults, but in in overcoming
(29:25):
the performance paradox, we alsochange the process, right what
what the experience of life andwork feels like? Because we find
more joy, we find morehappiness, we also experience
less anxiety, less depression,and we build deeper
relationships with each otherbecause we become more curious.
We're more supportive of oneanother we learn about each
(29:46):
other's needs and perspectives.We can learn more from each
other. And so we we change notonly this nation, but also the
process and the everyday lifethat we live.
Eveline Oehrlich (29:56):
Beautiful. I cannot wait. I kind of wish it's
September. So I can't have it.But then the year will be over.
So we'll we'll look forward toit if anybody on the call or on
this listening into it is easilypreorder PL orderable add
performance paradox.com Go thereand, and preorder it. So we have
(30:19):
come to the end, I have one morequestion for you. What do you do
for fun? Well, you
Eduardo Briceño (30:25):
know, I feel so grateful that from so many
things, I mean, the first thingI do every morning is to express
gratitude for so many things.But I find most of my days like
really fun. And I'm I'm veryprivileged that way. But some of
the things kind of outside ofwork because I love my work, and
I have fun in my work. But someof the things I do outside of
(30:47):
work is I've been playing moreand more tennis with my wife we
played yesterday and the priorday. And we're really enjoying
kind of being playful andchallenging one another in the
tennis court. I also travel alot for work, and my wife does
too. So we like traveling witheach other and kind of when I
when I'm in a place I take sometime to either visit a museum or
(31:10):
see somebody there that Ihaven't seen in a long time as
something that that I enjoydoing as well. But I love my
work. I love how I'm I'm youknow, in a way obsessed about
it, and I like being obsessedabout it. So I'm privileged to
kind of have fun throughout theday, every day.
Eveline Oehrlich (31:28):
I can feel that I can sense it through
through the through the lines ofcommunication with you. This has
been absolutely wonderful. Wehave been talking to Eduardo
percent. Your Thank you,Eduardo. This has been a very,
very, very nice treat for ourlisteners and for myself. Thanks
again for joining me today onhumans of DevOps podcast.
Eduardo Briceño (31:49):
Thank you, Evelyn. It's great to speak with
you.
Eveline Oehrlich (31:52):
Humans of DevOps podcast is produced by
DevOps Institute. Our audioproduction team includes Julia
Papp and Brendan Leigh andDaniel Schultz Newman, shout out
to my teammates who make thisreally great equate production.
I'm humans of DevOps podcastexecutive producer Evelyn
earlyish. If you would like tojoin us on a podcast, please
(32:14):
contact us at humans of DevOpspodcast at DevOps institute.com.
And I said that this timewithout really tripping up so I
remember literally talk to yousoon.
Narrator (32:28):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the humans of
DevOps podcast. Don't forget tojoin our global community to get
access to even more greatresources like this. Until next
time, remember, you are part ofsomething bigger than yourself.
You belong
You're listening to the humans of DevOps podcast, a
podcast focused on advancing thehumans of DevOps through skills,
knowledge, ideas, and learning,or the skil framework.
Eduardo Briceño (00:16):
This particular framework became really helpful
for them to align with eachother about how they wanted to
foster a growth mindset culture,and what it addresses is the
confusion that the way toimprove is to work hard, that is
simplistic and it gets us intotrouble.
Eveline Oehrlich (00:34):
Welcome to the humans of DevOps Podcast. I'm
Evelyn knowlage, Chief ResearchOfficer at DevOps Institute. I'm
skipping the introduction today.So we get more time with a very
special guest, who is a thoughtleader, author and very popular
keynote speaker on developingcultures of learning and high
performance. Up podcast titlefor today is exploring different
(00:59):
zones. Stay tuned. And today wehave with us and I have a
drumroll. Eduardo bird Sanyo,who is a very, very popular
keynote speaker as I mentioned.Hello, Eduardo.
Eduardo Briceño (01:13):
Hello, Evelyn's Great to see you. Great to be
here.
Eveline Oehrlich (01:16):
Likewise, very excited to have you on our
podcast today. So let me quicklyand I will read this in third
person. So this will feelstrange to you, Eduardo. So I'm
going to just share with ouraudience a little bit on your
bio. So Eduardo is a globalkeynote speaker, as I already
mentioned, facilitator andprogram provider who supports
(01:38):
organizations in developingcultures of learning and high
performance. Prior to that, hewas the CEO of mindset works,
the pioneer in growth mindsetdevelopment services, which he
co founded in 2007, withStanford professor Carol Dweck,
Lisa Blackwell and others, andled for over a decade before
(02:02):
that he was taking on investorswith Credit Suisse venture
capital arm, the sprout groupand served on several for profit
and nonprofit boards. It bordersTED talks on growth mindset, and
Ted Talk on learning zone andthe performance zone have been
viewed by over 8 million havebeen viewed over 8 million
(02:24):
times. And I'm one of them. Hisbook, the performance paradox,
turning the power of mindsetinto action, will be published
by Penguin Random House inSeptember of this year. He is
Behera Aspen fellow, a member ofthe Aspen Institute's Global
Leadership Network, and aninductee into happiness Hall of
(02:46):
Fame. Eduardo grew up inCaracas, Venezuela, he holds a
Bachelor degree in economics andengineering from the University
of Pennsylvania, as well as anMBA and MA in education from
Stanford University. Mostimportantly, he continues to
enjoy lifelong learning everyday. And that's exactly while
you why you are here, Eduardo,for our listeners to share your
(03:11):
experience and how to actuallydo that. So welcome again to our
podcast.
Eduardo Briceño (03:16):
Thank you, Evelyn. Great to be here. I feel
like we have kindred hearts. Ilook forward to the
conversation.
Eveline Oehrlich (03:21):
Yes, the first one. The first thing which I
really want to know, of course,everything else is exciting, but
happiness Hall of Fame. I didsome research and check that
out. You have to tell us aboutthat. What? What is that?
Eduardo Briceño (03:36):
Yeah, I didn't know either. And it is actually
one of the things I'm most proudof, because, to me, it
symbolizes a lot of change thatI have done in myself. I grew up
being very unhappy, actually.And I have really transformed
myself over a lot of years. AndI lead a very happy life now
(04:02):
with a lot of joy. And that's,that's involved a lot of change
in myself a lot of work inmyself. And so I was doing a
keynote once and afterwards, aman came to me and he said he
was the executive director ofthe happiness Hall of Fame. And
I hadn't heard of it either. Butthey had looked at my work and
the impact that they felt thatwas having on people and how I
(04:25):
was spreading joy. And theywanted to induct me into the
happiness Hall thing so that youknow that to me, was striking in
in symbolizing how much of achange I had made myself.
Eveline Oehrlich (04:37):
Wow. Fantastic. For our listeners,
check it out. There are Eduardois in great company out there.
There are a whole range of folksyou you got you listeners will
all recognize. So that'sfantastic. Congratulations for
being there. All right. So as Imentioned to you already, when
(04:59):
we did a little bit Have a precall. I'm a big fan of Professor
Carol Dweck work, particularlythe work around the growth
mindset. But I don't want toassume that everybody on
listening here has actually readher book mindset or is familiar
with. So why don't you sharewith us a little bit about what
(05:24):
a growth mindset is?
Eduardo Briceño (05:27):
Sure. And I'm glad you're asking that because
it's something that is reallyeasily to get distorted. It is
something that a lot of peoplehaven't heard about, like you
said, but also a lot of peoplehave, and a lot of people have
read the book you just mentionedMindset by Carol Dweck. It's
been a bestseller. But even forfor people who learn about
(05:48):
mindset and do work on mindset,and I'll start there. We, when
we ask people who think they'refamiliar with growth mindset,
what a growth mindset is, theyoften describe something
different, like they might say,it's, it means being open
minded, or it means working hardor persevering. And a growth
(06:12):
mindset is none of those things.A growth mindset is not
something we do. It's not abehavior. But it's a belief
about the nature of human beingsis the belief that we can change
the belief that our abilities orqualities are malleable, or we
can develop them. And the reasonso for example, if we think that
some people are natural leadersand others aren't, and that's
(06:33):
what determines whethersomebody's a good leader, that
would be the opposite of agrowth mindset is what we call a
fixed mindset about leadership.Or if we think that some people
are introverted, and othersextroverted, and that's fixed,
those are things that don'tchange, that would be a fixed
mindset. Versus we can work todevelop any of those dimensions
we can we can work to becomemore introverted, right, like
(06:56):
more mindful, more reflective,more more present more
comfortable in solitude, andmore extroverted, more, more
more in a state of enjoymentwhen we're with other people,
and great at conversation andgreat at being funny, or
whatever it is. So those that'sdifferent from a fixed mindset.
(07:16):
And a growth mindset is when wesee ourselves as fixed, or when
we see ourselves as able tochange. And the reason that
that's important, is that whatdoctor mindset with Dr. Dweck
research has shown and lots ofother researchers as well now is
that we will try to change thebehaviors is really hard if we
(07:37):
are in a fixed mindset. So if wethink that we can't change, then
telling somebody, you know, towork hard, or to be open minded,
or to try to experiment beyondthe known that doesn't tend to
work if people are thinking thattheir abilities are fixed, or
that other people's abilitiesare fixed. And so we need to
work on both changing ourbeliefs about the nature of
(07:59):
ourselves and others, andchanging our behaviors and
habits. And those two things gohand in hand.
Eveline Oehrlich (08:06):
Interesting. I love that. I wish this book I
haven't really checked, if thatbook is also in German. I have a
few colleagues who potentiallyshould read this, because we
just had this conversation onthese assumptions. And I felt
that they had a very fixedmindset. So but I would love
(08:29):
them to read it in German. Iwill check on that.
Eduardo Briceño (08:33):
Later, too. I think you know, 17 languages, if
I recall correctly, yes. I betit is available in German and
lots of other languages.
Eveline Oehrlich (08:41):
I will do that research tonight and check with
our favorite retailer, if that'spossible, right. So let me know
I would like yeah, yes,absolutely. So how did you
actually get into the space ofdeveloping cultures of learning?
Eduardo Briceño (08:56):
Well, you know, the first time that I got into
learning, I think was a timethat we all got into learning,
which is when we when I wasreally, really young. When I was
a baby, when I was a young kid,I think all of us are passionate
about learning them, right? Ifyou look at a baby or young kid,
(09:16):
they're trying to get up or likecrawl and like failing and
trying again, and trying againand trying a different strategy.
Or they might be really lookingmesmerized at what we're doing
with our voice in making allthese sounds that seem to you
know, we seem to communicatewith each other and they don't
understand what's going on. Andthey're so interested and trying
(09:40):
to understand that eventuallythey come to understand language
and they come to to understandwhat it is that we're doing with
our mouths. That's incredible.And so, we have so many
questions, right? kids ask somany questions, but then what
happens is that we get to schooland in school I think what tends
(10:01):
to happen in school is tragicbecause schools haven't, the
goal of school hasn't been todevelop lifelong learners,
right? It hasn't been to ignitea fire for people to pursue
whatever path they want topursue, to experiment and
discover, rather, is being totry to teach people some things
(10:22):
that they might not beinterested in at the time. And
so we start associating learningwith something that's boring and
tedious and like something thatwe do in school. And when we're
home, we do it only when we'redoing homework, and when we're
done with homework, then we'redone learning, right, and we go
do something else. And so and sowe learn in school, that
(10:43):
learning sucks that learning isnot relevant, it's not useful.
And and we also learn to performall the time because so many
things in school are graded witha letter or a number that we we
we get the message that whatwe're supposed to do on a daily
basis is to do things well to dothings we already know how to do
(11:04):
to try to minimize mistakes. Andso I like many people, I
believe, I went from lovinglearning, to just trying to
perform and to show that I'mgood and to validate myself. And
I ended up you know, afterschool, like there's no more
tests and almost grades, but theway that the best way that I
(11:25):
could figure out to do well isto get a high paying job, right?
So I I went and I work in theinvestment banking in New York
City. And I know you, you youworked at Forrester Research
where you were in that kind ofsimilar world as well. Then I
got into venture capital, and Iwas investing in technology
companies in Silicon Valley. Andafter a few years of that, you
(11:47):
know, it was it was interesting,but after a few years of that I
realized I actually gotphysically sick. I was my I got
a repetitive strain injurycalled myofascial pain syndrome,
it was painful and difficult touse my hands to do simple things
like brushing my teeth or opendoors or driving. And I met
(12:07):
people with my condition who hadgotten so bad that they couldn't
use their hands for more than 10minutes a day. So I, I ended up
stretching for an hour and ahalf for every day for three
years and getting treatment ofall kinds. You know, I went to
Washington DC for six weeks toget a particular treatment every
(12:28):
day. So it was a big journey forme to heal. But one of the
things that I learned was that Ineeded to, I couldn't take my
hands for granted. I couldn'ttake my ability to do things for
granted. And so I needed to findsomething that I was passionate
about, and that I felt wasmaking a difference in the
world. And so I went to gradschool to build that different
(12:50):
path for myself. And over there.I met Carol Dweck. And I read
her book and I, she's my mentor.She's been my mentor for since,
you know, over 15 years, and herwork just learning about her
work, I realized how my fixedmindsets had gotten in the way
of my goals. I was selfsabotaging. I realized how I
(13:13):
needed to change my thinking andmy habits in order to really try
things that I hadn't done beforeand, and learn and develop
myself. And I realized how a lotof people could benefit from
those same insights that I wasgaining from Dr. Dweck. So we
partnered and co founded acompany called mindset works.
And I led it for over 15 years,my job became more and more
(13:35):
public speaking. And that's whatI'm focused on 100% for for the
last several years now. Wow.
Eveline Oehrlich (13:43):
fits very well with, with my belief in how we
want to lead our work in theDevOps Institute. Because,
again, if you think about whatwe do, I'm sure you probably
don't know, but I'll, I'll shareit with you and again with
others. We're trying to help.We're not trying but we are we
(14:04):
know we are helping ourcommunity members to learn. We
call it upskilling or skillbuilding, right. And we do this
by developing content, we dotrainings, we do certifications,
we have events, and weencouraged and fostered a fairly
tight community. We have over Ithink 90,000 or so fellow
(14:24):
followers on LinkedIn. I justlearned that today. And we hope
we can make a difference forthese individuals who want to
learn and grow but it ischallenging. And so when I went
off to help us give get someinsights in this learning and
growth, that's how I found youand I find your explanation on
learning and performance zonesextremely helpful. And I would
(14:48):
love for you to share a bit moredetails with our community
members to help them understandthese different zones. So please
do share with us. What are thezones Since you call them
learning zones and performingzones, and what what must we
know about them for our dailywork?
Eduardo Briceño (15:08):
Sure. So the learning zone and performance
zone came from when I, at somepoint, my work, businesses
started reaching out to mebecause they wanted to build a
growth mindset culture. And inthose workshops, in getting into
the conversations and trying tohelp them build a growth,
mindset culture, I trieddifferent frameworks and
(15:30):
different routes to theconversation. And this
particular framework reallyresonated and became really
helpful for them to generateinsight and to align with each
other about how they wanted tofoster a growth mindset culture,
and what the the the one thataddresses is the the confusion
(15:51):
that a lot of us have, that theway to improve is to work hard.
That is too simplistic, and itgets us into trouble. So the
reality is that there's gettingbetter at things or innovating
is not just about working hard.Because there's two different
types of hard work, there's hardwork to get things done as best
(16:14):
as we know how trying tominimize mistakes. That's what
we call the performance zone.But in order to improve, we have
to actually work to go beyondthe known and to ask questions
and to experiment and to dothings that may or may not work.
That's what we call the LearningZone. And it is by engaging in
the learning zone that we getbetter. So my book is called the
(16:34):
performance paradox toperformance paradox is the
counterintuitive fact that if weperform all the time, we hinder
our performance, we actuallystop ourselves from performing
even higher if all we're doingis performing. And that's that
is a paradox, but it's true. Andso what we need to do in order
to get better is to go beyondthe known and to do things like
(16:56):
when you talk about upskillingand skill building. Those are
the things that happen withgreat performers, right. So if
you look at a great athlete, forexample, if they're playing a
championship final, they'regoing to be focused on the
things that they do best, andthey're trying to minimize
mistakes and be if they have aweakness, they're going to try
(17:17):
to avoid that weakness in thatmatch. That's all for
performance. And because theonly goal during the match is to
try to win the game. But whatthey do after the game is the
learning zone right after thegame, if they were having
trouble with a particular move,they're gonna go to their coach
and say, Coach, I need to workon that particular move. And
that's a very different activityand area of attention than what
(17:40):
we do during the match. Right,it's actually completely
different. And it is what theydo in the learning zone that
allows them to perform so well,in court in the performance only
if they're only playing games,then they get stuck, right, they
don't get better, in fact thatthe Williams sisters, which
became the best in the world,Valium played any championships,
(18:01):
any games. For years before theyturned professional, they were
just in the performance zone,sorry, in the Learning Zone. So
the learning zone can be a purelearning zone, like taking a
course, or you know, doing youknow, reading is a pure learning
zone activity. But we can alsointegrate these two zones so
that we do them together so thatas we're getting things done,
(18:23):
we're doing things in a waythat's also going to lead to
insight and to new skills andstrategies and to getting
better. And so it's a byintegrating these two zones. We
we can get better while alsodoing all the things we need to
do in our long to do list.
Narrator (18:43):
Do you want to advance your career and organization we
can help you do that DevOpsInstitute offers a wide range of
educational experiences for youto begin your upskilling
journey. Whether you're lookingfor a defined path to
certification, exploring thelatest in DevOps, or connecting
with the larger community, wecan help you develop the
(19:04):
specialized skills needed forthe future of it. And it won't
just be good for your career. Itwill also make you indispensable
at work with our lineup ofindustry recognized DevOps
certifications, digital learningopportunities, and engaging
events. You can connect with ournetwork of experts and expand
your potential today. VisitDevOps institute.com and join
(19:26):
our community now.
Eveline Oehrlich (19:28):
So a quick side note for everybody
listening in. There are some twofantastic TED talks from Eduardo
one is called How to get betterat things you care about. Check
that out. The other one is thepower of belief. So listeners go
to the TED Talk, easy to find,and listen to it. Let's come
back to what you just said. Andthis is very specific to our, to
(19:53):
our folks in IT, particularlythe DevOps folks and others. We
do a lot of, well, a lot If it'sa little bit of an exaggeration,
we do something called a postmortem, right? Actually, it's
because it's such a nasty word,we have renamed it to call the
retrospective, because postmortem sounds like we're killing
something. But we don't want todo that, we want to actually
(20:17):
step back and look at what hashappened. And so that, I think,
is an excellent example of anintegration of a learning zone
and the performance zone. Wouldyou agree with that?
Eduardo Briceño (20:28):
Absolutely. Yeah. That's a great way to
integrate the Learn thelearnings and the performance on
the retrospective is a wonderfulstrategy. And it's also kind of
what you know, greatperformance, like athletes do,
right? They perform. And thenafterwards, they might watch a
video and see, hey, let's, let'sthink about how that game went,
and what can I learn? And whatdo I need to practice. So that's
the retrospective, in additionto a retrospective, think about
(20:52):
doing because retrospective,also, can be called an after
action review. That's a termthey use in the military. But
and that's great, that's allwonderful. But also consider
doing kind of mid actionreviews, something that happens
also kind of in the middle ofprojects, and as a habit, rather
than only when things go wrong.When when people make a mistake,
(21:16):
it's just we can always getbetter, right? And so whether it
is after projects, or afterthere's an incident, which is
wonderful to do think aboutalso, how can you do this
proactively and as a habit, sothat you're doing it all the
time regularly. And so it isnormalized is something that we
all want to be doing on aregular basis, because we can
all continue to improve.
Eveline Oehrlich (21:37):
And, and it becomes part of our day. Now,
that I guess is the challenge.Because, again, if I think of my
times in it, I didn't have a lotof time, it was very dynamic,
very fast paced, I had lots ofperforming to do, right. And
even so in, we encourage peopleto make mistakes and learn from
(21:58):
that. At the same time, becauseI'm delivering outcomes and
values and our lives deliverresults. It is very difficult to
actually combine those two andand and kind of integrate them.
Do you have any additional tipsfor people? What What can our
listeners do is just somethingwould you say? Do this once a
(22:19):
day or once a week or somethinglike this? Because everybody is
probably hungry, saying yeah,this sounds all great. This is
very theoretical, but be in myshoes one day, write anything
you would suggest?
Eduardo Briceño (22:32):
Sure. So first, yeah, there's there's so
strategies, I'll share a couple.But first, I want to start by
just recognizing the issue,which is that if we only stay
only worried about getting thetasks done, then over time,
we're going to make to be tohave a lot less time, right? If
(22:54):
we want to create time and makemore time both for learning and
for performance, then we have tofind ways to work smarter. And
to get more work more done, likemore important things done in
less time. And the way to findthat is to engage in the
learning zone. So so we have tofigure out a way to engage in
the learning zone, so that wehave more time, right so we can
(23:15):
create time. And and so ingeneral, one way to get started
is to do something as likedoesn't take a lot of time is
very, very quick. And that youcan do frequently. So rather
than try to say block two hoursevery Friday like which is
becomes really hard. It's betterto just spend like five minutes
(23:36):
a day doing something or evenjust one minute a day. Because
what that that Prime's a growthmindset and an interest. And
then it is it is very frequent.So we start building a habit,
and then it becomes easier to gofrom one minute to three
minutes, and from five minutesto 10 minutes, or then even
more. So just to change ourthinking as we're going about
(23:57):
getting things done throughoutthe day. So we're just paying
more attention to the thingsthat we can learn isn't isn't
doesn't really involve doingsomething differently. But it
involves paying attention to thethings that we can learn. In
fact, there's research thatshows that for people measured
people's mindset, so they askthem things like, Do you believe
(24:18):
that you can become smarter? Andfor the people who answered yes,
I believe I can become smarter.They looked at people's brains
inside of a brain scan machine.And they while they were solving
problems inside of the machine.And what they realized is that
people who thought they couldbecome smarter, so who had a
growth mindset aboutintelligence, their brain was
more active when they weregetting information about what
(24:41):
mistakes they made during theproblems. And so they learn from
those mistakes, and they weremore effective in solving
subsequent problems. So theybecame better problem solvers,
because they paid more attentionto our mistakes. And they pay
more attention to mistakesbecause they thought they could
become smarter. And so theyweren't spending any more time
solving problems. They were alljust solving problems. but some
of them were paying attention towhat they could learn and others
(25:03):
weren't. And that made all thedifference. But some something
that is very simple that anybodycan do. And I think it's really,
really powerful is to build ahabit to every morning remind
ourselves of what it is that I'mworking to improve. We're like,
what one thing am I working toget better at right now and, and
review that every morning. Andwhat that does is first, it
(25:27):
makes sure that you're alwaysworking at improving something,
a that be that's top of mind sothat you're thinking throughout
the day and identifyingopportunities to improve so that
when something comes up, you'relike, oh, that's relevant to
what I'm interested in and youpay more attention to it right?
And then it Prime's a growthmindset, it Prime's the reminder
that we can always continue toimprove and develop ourselves.
(25:51):
And so it gets us to thinkdifferently throughout the day,
every day. So that's just oneexample of something simple that
we can all do.
Eveline Oehrlich (25:57):
Perfect, fantastic. I am going to make
that for myself important. Solet's talk about quickly on the
upcoming book, the performanceparadox, turning the power of
mindset into action. It'sreleasing September 5 2023. Give
us a few things, what to lookout for what's in that book, I
(26:20):
already ordered it. So I'llshare with everybody else how to
preorder it but give us a littlebit of a like two minutes on,
what can we find in it? Sure.And
Eduardo Briceño (26:31):
thank you for pre ordering. And and yes, it's
available for preorder in anybookseller now. And yeah, I'll
describe a little bit thestructure that sounds good,
because it also gives people anidea of what kinds of things we
can all work on in order tobecome better at learning and
performing. So the book is hashas three parts. The first one
is driving individual growth,which is about individual growth
(26:54):
and the foundational ideas. Parttwo is about overcoming the
performance paradox in teams andorganizations. So how do we
create strong teams andorganizations? And part three is
from individual transformationto global impact? So how do we
take everything we're learningand apply it in the performance
zone and apply it to changelives. So in part one, about
(27:14):
individual growth, like ChapterOne is about the performance
paradox, which describes whatthe challenge is the problem.
Chapter Two is the solution,which is about the two zones
that we talked about thelearning zone and the
performance zone. Chapter Threeis about integrating the two
zones so that we do themtogether, right? So instead,
it's not about learning by doingbecause we don't learn by doing,
(27:37):
but it's about learning whiledoing how do we change the way
we do things in order to, toalso improve? Chapter Four is
about six essential learningstrategies that we can all use.
Chapter Five is about mistakes.And mistakes are interesting,
because mistakes on one hand, weknow that we can learn from
mistakes, and on the other hand,mistakes, lower performance. And
(27:59):
so Chapter Five is about gettingmore and more nuanced
understanding of mistakes andgetting clear about how can we
elicit mistakes in a way that'sgoing to increase learning, but
also increased performance aswell. And when do we want to
avoid mistakes. Chapter Six isabout common misconceptions
about learning and about growthmindset that gets in the way of
(28:21):
growth. Chapter Seven is about aframework called the growth
propeller, which is the five keyelements that drive growth that
any of us can work on in orderto become stronger learners and
performance. And those are ouridentity, our purpose, our
beliefs, our habits, and ourcommunity. And so that's part
one of the book. Part two isabout teams and organizations.
(28:43):
So chapter eight is aboutvisions of a strong learning
organization with examples ofvery, very strong learning and
performing organizations.Chapters nine and 10 are about
teams, chapters, 11 and 12, areabout how to lead for growth to
leadership. And finally, thethird, the final part of the
(29:04):
book, chapter 13, is about theperformance zone, what can we do
in the performance zone in orderto perform at our best, and
chapter 14 is about howovercoming the paradox changes
lives. So not only can we get tobetter destinations, and to
improve and to increase ourresults, but in in overcoming
(29:25):
the performance paradox, we alsochange the process, right what
what the experience of life andwork feels like? Because we find
more joy, we find morehappiness, we also experience
less anxiety, less depression,and we build deeper
relationships with each otherbecause we become more curious.
We're more supportive of oneanother we learn about each
(29:46):
other's needs and perspectives.We can learn more from each
other. And so we we change notonly this nation, but also the
process and the everyday lifethat we live.
Eveline Oehrlich (29:56):
Beautiful. I cannot wait. I kind of wish it's
September. So I can't have it.But then the year will be over.
So we'll we'll look forward toit if anybody on the call or on
this listening into it is easilypreorder PL orderable add
performance paradox.com Go thereand, and preorder it. So we have
(30:19):
come to the end, I have one morequestion for you. What do you do
for fun? Well, you
Eduardo Briceño (30:25):
know, I feel so grateful that from so many
things, I mean, the first thingI do every morning is to express
gratitude for so many things.But I find most of my days like
really fun. And I'm I'm veryprivileged that way. But some of
the things kind of outside ofwork because I love my work, and
I have fun in my work. But someof the things I do outside of
(30:47):
work is I've been playing moreand more tennis with my wife we
played yesterday and the priorday. And we're really enjoying
kind of being playful andchallenging one another in the
tennis court. I also travel alot for work, and my wife does
too. So we like traveling witheach other and kind of when I
when I'm in a place I take sometime to either visit a museum or
(31:10):
see somebody there that Ihaven't seen in a long time as
something that that I enjoydoing as well. But I love my
work. I love how I'm I'm youknow, in a way obsessed about
it, and I like being obsessedabout it. So I'm privileged to
kind of have fun throughout theday, every day.
Eveline Oehrlich (31:28):
I can feel that I can sense it through
through the through the lines ofcommunication with you. This has
been absolutely wonderful. Wehave been talking to Eduardo
percent. Your Thank you,Eduardo. This has been a very,
very, very nice treat for ourlisteners and for myself. Thanks
again for joining me today onhumans of DevOps podcast.
Eduardo Briceño (31:49):
Thank you, Evelyn. It's great to speak with
you.
Eveline Oehrlich (31:52):
Humans of DevOps podcast is produced by
DevOps Institute. Our audioproduction team includes Julia
Papp and Brendan Leigh andDaniel Schultz Newman, shout out
to my teammates who make thisreally great equate production.
I'm humans of DevOps podcastexecutive producer Evelyn
earlyish. If you would like tojoin us on a podcast, please
(32:14):
contact us at humans of DevOpspodcast at DevOps institute.com.
And I said that this timewithout really tripping up so I
remember literally talk to yousoon.
Narrator (32:28):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the humans of
DevOps podcast. Don't forget tojoin our global community to get
access to even more greatresources like this. Until next
time, remember, you are part ofsomething bigger than yourself.
You belong
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