March 21, 2023 • 46 mins
This week on “Bachelor Happy Hour,” Becca and Michelle take the reins as they recap an emotional and intense Fantasy Suite week. From polarizing moments to heart-wrenching conversations, nothing is off-limits as Becca and Michelle share their thoughts on an episode that will surely have Bachelor Nation talking.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to another week Happy Hour listeners. I'm one
of your hosts, Becky Poufriend and I'm Michelle Young, and
we are back with a very juicy, a very intense,
and emotional week to catch up on that just unfolded
with these fantasy suites. Yes, we have so many thoughts
(00:24):
on all that went down with Zach this week and
can't wait to hash out what has happened on our screens.
So let's get right into it. Back up, where do
we begin? I feel like when the host says, like,
first time in bachelor history, is this the first that
everything that unfolded tonight or the last night? Well, what
(00:47):
is he saying is a first? Like that's when Jesse's
like this is the first? It's like, well, what, what's
what's the first? Like a guy saying something and that
they're not doing it, because that's not that's not a first.
But I mean, I definitely think it's one of the
more intense fantasy suite weeks that we've ever seen, especially
(01:10):
probably within I would say recent years. The only other
one that comes to mind that was an intense time
this week was I think Colton's week when he jumped
the fence. Yeah, I do remember that, but for completely
different reasons. But I would say, I see my mind
(01:31):
goes to Clayton's season, but that was the episode after
when he had to tell all of the women. We're
just kind of having that same situation a little bit,
just a little bit earlier. So let's get into it,
and before we talk, you know, episode specifics, let's talk
(01:53):
about the whole significance of fantasy suites. What do you
remember about your mindset going into fantasy suits? Yeah, And
I want to say, I hate how they keep saying
it's sex week because, like I think that people just
have this connotation where it's like you're only going to
go to bang these people. Like that's not the case.
This is really the first alone time that the leads
(02:17):
have with any of their contestants where it's not just sex.
It's a chance to ask important conversations, to just get
to know somebody on a much more deep intimate level
without necessarily having to be intimate. Like it's really pivotal,
and you do learn a lot about the other person
(02:38):
that you're spending the night with. Yeah, I'm like trying
to think going back eons ago of when I was
going into fantasy suites, I spoke about finances, didn't you.
Oh yeah, well I went in. I ask certain questions
(03:02):
that I think were really good, and then I did
not ask certain questions which I probably should have during
this week, which when I went I will say what
I went into Paradise I was much more mindful of.
But yeah, I remember one one question I really wanted
to ask them. This is something that another contestant on
when I was on The Bachelor had brought up, and
it was about finances and like like what kind of
(03:25):
debt do you have? Because if you have it, like
I'd rather be well aware of that, Like if we're
going to be in this together and potentially, you know,
had this proposal, like what am I taking on as
your partner? Right? So yeah, I again this was so
long ago, but I was just ready to be alone,
(03:45):
and like I wanted to see the little things like
how do we interact with each other when there's no
one kind of narrating our topics of conversation or what
we're doing for the day. Like I really just wanted
to see like the fluidity of like is it awkward?
Can we carry on this conversation? Like how do we
feel with each other? Is it comfortable to the point
where like we could take the next step. So that
(04:07):
was my mindset of just like seeing the level. And
to be honest, I went into it and I only
I only had overnights with two guys. I ended up
sending one person home that week. But what was your
mindset going into it? Very similar? I was just really
really looking forward to the conversations that we didn't have
(04:27):
to pause if someone was interruptingly, if a producer was interrupting,
or if some a cameraman needed to switch over tape
or like whatever. It was. That just the little nuances
that are pig nuances honestly that go on when you're
filming a massive TV show and so being able to
just like sit there and hang out with somebody, and
when you're with somebody for eight hours straight, when you're
going on a one on one, when you're going on
(04:49):
a group day, like you might be around that person,
but like even when you're on a one on one,
you have them all to yourself, you're really not physically
with them the entire day. Like there's a lot of
breaks to get pulled away for interviews, they get pulled
away for interviews, like you have pauses where you're talking
to producers, they're talking to producers. So it's really just
like cut up quite a bit your time together. And
(05:09):
so I was looking forward to like nobody, nobody's going
to interrupt because like our conversations, nobody's gonna, you know,
gear anything a different direction, and so I get to
talk about what I want to talk about when I
want to talk about it, whether that's finances, financial goals,
whether that's getting more in depth about families or views
or whatever it is. I just that's the biggest thing,
(05:31):
is the fact that I felt like I was able
to just go back to being me or just because
that's me the whole time. But you know what I mean,
like going back to the basics of let's pull ourselves
off a TV show for a second. Yeah, really see,
like is this actually possible? It's so important And again
just to see that like comfort level of what you
(05:54):
could have with somebody is so important. And just like,
let's be honest, every time you spend the night with
somebody new, like for the first time, like emotions are high,
you're a little bit more anxious, you don't know how
it's going to go, you overthink things like, Okay, do
I brush my teeth in front of you? Do I
spit my toothpaste out? Like little things like that that
(06:14):
are you know, like until you're alone with somebody you
don't know. And so I think it was just for me,
like and also I really wanted to take the pressure off.
Like I didn't want to go into the week or
the night with any expectations. Again, like I knew that
there were certain things that I wanted to talk about
and like stories for me that were super important that
(06:36):
I wanted to share in that moment away from absolutely
everybody else. But other than that, I didn't want to
set myself up for like I'm gonna say this or
I have to do this, or I have to not
do that, because I know myself and in the past,
every time I set myself up and like have this
like level or standard, it never goes that way. Or
(06:58):
you know, like I've always joked in the podcast of
like if I definitely say no to something, the opposite's
going to happen. Like we sat with Paradis. I said
I was not going to do Paradise. Did Paradise, So,
like I didn't want to go into overnights with that mindset,
which wasn't necessarily the case here, which yeah, it's it's tough.
(07:20):
It puts you in a weird headspace, which as we're
trying to recap this episode, I want people to realize,
like we're trying to see all sides here and remember
what it was like to be a contestant in Fantasy
Sweet Week or be a lead in Fantasy Sweet Week.
But let's get into it. Because we see Zach, Ariel, Gabby,
(07:41):
and Katie all head to Thailand, and right away Zach
sets the tone, sets this precedence with Jesse and has
this very in depth, intentional conversation. He really sets this
up at the beginning of like, I'm going to be
very intentional this week. I am not going to be intimate.
(08:03):
I do not want to sleep with any of these women.
I just want to be able to have a lone
time have conversations with them, but like sex is off
the table. What did you think in that moment, Like
did you take it well, like okay, you know, good
for him, he's setting a bar here, or were you
(08:25):
like okay, buddy, Like this doesn't always go as planned.
I think with where I stood is just it's Sacks season,
so he can stand by the like whatever choices he feels,
whatever focus he feels, and all those different things. I
(08:47):
also was just kind of looking at him and just
how he's kind of carried himself throughout the season. And
he's a very strong, physical, touched person. Let's just say that,
like he he's noted that himself. And so he really
made this like huge, massive announcement that really got spoken about,
spoken about, spoken about, spoken about, and I was curious
(09:12):
to see, Okay, is this something that he's going to
be able to stick to, because that's a large statement
and that's great if you choose to focus or handle
it in that manner, but you're also putting yourself in
a situation to not live up to your word. And
that's what happened, And that's where I struggled, or didn't struggle,
(09:35):
but just I felt for the women going through this episode.
I and just kind of as everything started to unfold
and going back to Arial's fantasy steep because she was
the first one they seemed to really connect. And I'm
(09:59):
curious if this would have this whole statement would have
gotten retracted even quicker, if it would have been Katie
or Gabby in the first Fantasy Suite. What are your thoughts? Well,
I think that, and again like I don't really know Zach.
We've only had him on the podcast a couple of times.
(10:20):
Like all I can go off of is what I
see when we interview him and what I see as
a viewer. But to me, Zach has never been a
guy that this has been such a highlighted thing. It's
not like what we've seen in the past, where we
have had several people who are virgins on the show
or born again virgins on the show. And so I
(10:44):
think for somebody to kind of remove themselves from like
who they are, how they might typically act and like
turn it a complete one eighty, I don't think we'll
set you up for success. Like I think he went
into its adamant and again, he is a very physical
touch person. He said that himself on our podcast. It's
(11:08):
it's I feel like you're changing yourself so much for
this one week or what you stand by or how
you've operated in the past, that it might potentially lead
to failure because you're trying to be an act in
such a different way. And again, like I don't know
Zach's past. I can only assume in like what I'm
seeing as a critical thinker here, but I think he
(11:30):
was so adamant up front, which might not like this,
This might not be how he usually operates. So I'm like, okay,
like I understand where you're coming from and like wanting
to be very open and like have this even playing
field with all the women. But if this is how
you usually don't operate in your other relationships, it's it
might not be beneficial in this regard. And then after that,
(11:54):
I just I'm going to be completely honest, he just
really lost me with how everything beyond that was handled,
because it'd be one thing to just say that that
and you know, go into your overnights to have that
conversation and just like actually stand by what you say.
But I just got really lost after everything because again,
like I felt for these women in very different ways.
(12:17):
But yeah, again, like I don't even know where to
begin with this. I think it's so much and I
think like his date with Ariel was fine, his overnight
was fine. I think it was kind of what he
expected and wanted out of it. So let's get into Gabby,
because Gabby's date is we see her very much so
(12:42):
in her head, very much struggling with as she said,
like being chosen second or second best. And this is
where I'm starting to see bits of Zac where I
think he might and again I could be totally off base,
but I think he might like to be a protector.
And I do quotes like in a way or like
(13:02):
a fixer, and like, you know, we've always seen an
area like pretty confident, pretty strong, very mysterious, like doesn't
really need much help. But with the other two women,
I think he needs to be there a little bit more,
as like that shoulder to cry on, to pick them up.
But we start to see him like take on a
different role with both Gabby and then with Katie. But
(13:23):
I think he probably feels most comfortable in that role
as like trying to take care of somebody else. And
so Gabby's really struggling again with confidence being second best,
chosen second, even though in this situation it's not up
to Zach. He can't pick the news flash everyone, you
can't pick what order your fantasies. Who doesn't It is
(13:43):
just handed to you and it is what it is.
So he's helping Gabby on this date and they have
this moment where he's there to support her and pick
her up and kind of get her past this hump
of this self doubt. They go into the night portion,
they have this overnight which they both seem and correct
(14:05):
me if I'm wrong, but they both seem to be
very happy at ease in that moment. When they wake
up the next day, they feel very connected. It seems
like it went well, right, Yes, but I want to
pause you there for a second, because even before they
get into this overnight date or fantasy suite, when Zach
(14:26):
tells Gabby that he's not having sex with anybody, her
reaction is very strong. She feels very strongly about this,
and she seems to She seems to be very just
like she's understood, like she comes across understanding, but we
also get to see kind of her process this and
(14:47):
she's understanding, but she says that she's also very disappointed
that this decision was kind of just boldly made and
that it wasn't something that they discussed, you know, within
the relationship. She almost seemed like she was going to
challenge it a little bit, but like respectfully challenge it, right,
I think with both women with first aerial and then Gabby.
(15:09):
They were both very taken aback, and it wasn't what
they expected, right, Like, I don't think they totally thought
sex and intimacy would be taken off the table, but yeah,
but I think it was like right before they closed
the door, Gabby said something to like, well, he says,
we're not sleeping together, but we'll see something along those lines,
and she's like, the bed is so big for so
(15:29):
many activities, like during the day she does as these
funny one liners as Gabby always does. Yeah, yeah, and
so I think that's definitely foreshadowing and alluding to something
that is to come. We don't know what switched overnight.
(15:50):
We don't know what happened, nor do I want to.
That is between them. But the part where I really
felt for Gabby was they seemed great in that morning,
in that moment, they seem very connected. And then he
leaves and then he has this moment where in his
interviews he's like, I feel guilty and it kind of
(16:12):
takes this like negative turn, And all I can think
about is how Gabby is feeling watching this back now
after they just shared this moment, after her insecurities, and
she was very vocal and being very vulnerable about what
her struggles in this process are and then to have
to hear and see that has got to be so
freaking tough. It's so tough. And as a lead, at
(16:38):
what point you want to be honest and you want
to be vulnerable and this is your journey, this is
your love journey. And it's hard because typically you're up
to discretion of sharing what you would like to share
about your journey. But at what point, Again, it was
like this constant sight of them, like one eighty of decisions.
(17:02):
It was this bold statement of I'm not taking part
in any of these physical activities, and then it we
find out that it flipped, but then we find out
then he needs to talk about it, and so like
now fantasy sweets is not private, and she kind of
I would feel like I had whiplash too a little
(17:23):
bit in her position, just because it's like, okay, well,
what pieces are safe? Because you say one thing and
then you did the other. And I get that she
part took in the activities as well, But then at
the same time, you have that certain amount of trust,
you have what you said that you talk about very
intimate private things as well, and you would hope that
somebody keeps those to themselves or want to protect you
(17:46):
with it, or at least asks you and has that
convert like asks you about your thoughts on having that
conversation before just boldly making a decision, because at the
end of the day, if you're approaching this as a team,
then you need to play as a team even when
you're a lead. Which I'm so happy you said that,
(18:06):
because that is the main point where I got lost
in this from Zach is at some point, when does
it stop becoming just your show and when does it
become your teammate and you together. And I think in
the conversation where he goes back and talks to Gabby
after he feels guilty, he basically he starting out he
(18:28):
made the decision I'm not going to sleep with anyone,
but then he does, and then he goes to Gabby
makes the decision of well, I have to let these
other women know. And that's the part where I was like, Zach,
I understand your mindset and wanting to be honest, and
you cannot lie and this is weighing on you. But
also it takes two to tango, and you're not even
(18:50):
asking for Gabby's thoughts side of things, for how she
feels she would want you to handle this. We did
not see any of that, which is what caught me.
And that is to the point where I'm like, again,
it is so one sided, where you're not making this
decision about what you did with another woman and bringing
it into another relationship that it might guess you are
(19:12):
the lead, but it might not be solely your plays,
and it becomes so public, like something so intimate becomes
so public now, and it's it's not that that conversation
couldn't have maybe happened if you ended up with you know,
like if you end up with whatever person, Like I
(19:34):
know a lot of people talk about what has taken
place in fantasy suits because it's like you want to
have all of those different different conversations to be just
open about everything. But it was, yeah, it was him
making the decision. And then at what point did you
did you ever think, like what about Ariel? Because I
know that we kind of start to get into this
(19:55):
where he really comes into I have to tell the women,
like I have to let everybody know about what happened,
what I did, like my misstep, how things have changed,
and he talks to Gabby or he speaks to Gabby
and then we can assume that he's going to speak
to Katie because he's about to see her on her
fantasy suite. But that I'm like, what about Ariel, Like
(20:19):
are we gonna go tell the girl that we already
had a fantasy suite with that? Like we said this
bold thing and then we flip fop because that's that's
a respect thing too. For me, it's like, why are
we were respecting two women over here? But like, Ariel
is the third party in there. She's a third party
in this and whether regardless of whatever it is, you
(20:39):
made the energy, you put the energy forward to put
this out there in such a large way, So I
think you need to also address it to Ariel. And
that's not something we see And so I'm kind of
thrown off by that. I'm thrown off by everything. If
I'm being completely honest, I don't understand, like I'm trying to.
I'm really trying to as a viewer, and again, like
(21:00):
I'm trying to put myself back in the lead shoes
to be like, Okay, how if I was Zack, Like
how would I be feeling how would I handle this?
And like, quite honestly, like I don't know how. I
don't have an answer because we would go into these
weeks totally different, right. But but yeah, I think if
you're gonna if in the in the like matter of
(21:22):
being totally transparent and honest, I mean, you can't just
pick and choose who and when you're gonna be honest.
It's gonna have to be across the board, which which
wasn't the case here. And so it's a struggle I
think also to what is what's hard with the Gabby
conversation before he goes on his date with Katie is
(21:44):
and again, Gabby's gonna watch us all back, and it's
just going to be a lot to take it because
she'll see his interviews, she'll see his conversation again that
he had with Gabby where he's now saying, I'm falling
in love with you, and it's what did you think
about this timing of that? By the way, I well,
(22:05):
I don't think it was the right place or the
right time. I don't and that's just me and maybe
Zach was Zach has his own thought process, But I
don't think it was the right place or the right time,
especially given this is now this is turning into a
bigger deal than it maybe ever needed to be because
(22:25):
of this beginning proclamation. But now it's just I think
you're just adding on more and more potential hurt for
not only Gabby or the whoever, like the second person
is at the end of this, Like right, I think, yeah,
I think he entered this week with the correct intentions
(22:46):
of not wanting to put this weight of how like
this thought of having intimacy with another person on whoever
he ends up with. I think that was his prime
or I hope that that was his prime thought or
her first thought of I really just don't want to
(23:07):
put those women through that, so then let's hold off.
But I think once you say it, like you got
to be a man of your word, so that means
and you just don't sleep with anybody period, truly, Like
and I know that it's important, but it's just like,
so is your word. And then the way that it
was it was out of respect for the women at
the beginning, and it kind of tries to continue to
(23:30):
do that, but like we're continuing to miss the ball,
and then it's like the you know, it's really easy
to say, wait, no, I'm falling in love with you
when you feel like a relationship is threatened and they're
about to walk away. Of course you feel that intense fear,
and those are those moments where you have less of
a filter and you just want to say something. But
it's like, I wish I would have seen more discipline
(23:52):
with his actions and more discipline with his words, because
it seemed like he was basically telling Gabby, it's basically you.
And then he flips around and goes on the date
with Katie and it's the same conversation in reverse. I
slept with this other person, and like, I want you
(24:13):
to stick through this because I can really see at
the end of this I'm falling love it. So it
was just like everywhere, okay, and let me ask you this,
and maybe it's and again everyone's answer here could be
vastly different. But do you think it holds more weight
to Okay, say Zach never went into this week saying
(24:34):
I'm not going to sleep with anyone or be intimate, Okay,
But what if he went into this week saying I'm
not going to tell anyone I love them? Do you
think it holds more weight to sleep with somebody or
to say you're that you are falling in love or
you love someone like, what do you think ultimately would
hurt Gabby in the end more or hurt the other
women in the end more. I think that it's such
(24:58):
a personal preference. I think, I mean, both of them
hold very strong weights. I think for me, it's just
like you have to picture that person being with somebody else.
That's really hard. It's hard to hear someone say I
love you to somebody else as well. Right, so they're
both difficult. I don't know. I don't know if one's
easier than the other. I just think that if I think,
(25:19):
it's all about sticking to your word with what you say,
and that's what goes back to. So it's like if
you say, they both would have raised question, they both
would have broken my trust. If you tell me you're
not going to say I love you too anyone until
the final then that you need to stick by that.
If you tell me that you're not going to sleep
with anybody, then you need to stick with that. Otherwise,
when you're speaking your actions, your words aren't met meeting
(25:41):
up and so what can I trust you? On period.
I think from my perspective and from living through the
show as a contestant, you know, obviously, like we both
made it to fantasy suits with our respected lead, respective leads.
I was in the position and where two women were
(26:03):
told that the lead was falling in love with them,
and to be honest, that was harder I think to
digest than what would happen in overnights because again this
is me, but like physical intimacy is one thing, but
like the deep feelings of love, like that is such
a big word and such a big statement, a statement
(26:26):
slash action. That that is what was harder. In the end,
did your lead those say, did your lead say, I'm
not going to say this until the end, because that's
where I play into it is no, really, just you're
putting yourself in a situation where, like you, it is
very likely for you to fall in love with more
(26:47):
than one person, and that's it's it's hard to navigate that.
I think what's more difficult is like if you're going
to establish boundaries that you're not going to stick to. Yeah, yeah, no,
And in that case, I mean, as far as I'm
aware that like that I love you, I'm not going
to say I love you that anyone. He never did.
But that's why I went into my season being like,
(27:09):
I'm only going to reserve this for one final person
at the end, and that was my boundary that I
said that I knew I would be able to stick to.
That's the thing. So again, like with Gabby, I don't
think that was the time or the place to say that.
(27:30):
And then now let's fast forward to Katie's date. He
tells her during the day, so basically their whole date
is fixated on this conversation. And again, like I don't
know how in depth he needed to be, but I
could understand Katie's reaction and being like I kind of
assumed as an adult certain things would happen. I don't
(27:51):
need you to vocalize them and talk to me about
them and tell me this now, and that just you know,
made me pull away in some sense. Yeah, I appreciated
her saying I'm not happy right now, so I'm not
going to put on a fake face. I'm not going
to put on a smile. I appreciated her vocalizing that
because I do think that there's times where it's like, okay,
(28:14):
she actually said this herself, it's like, Okay, you told
me you do you want a cookie? Do you want
a gold star? She said something? She said something, How
do you want my reaction to be? Do you want
me to pack? It was like, it was like we do.
Honesty is a very very good thing. But I think
it's a huge reminder that when we hurt somebody, and
even though telling the truth isn't easy, it's not this
instant gratification of the other person being okay and for
(28:37):
them to stab out of it. And that's just part
of hurting people, like when you hurt people in relationships,
regardless across the board, not just Zach. Is that a
lot of times when we apologize, we expect it to
just be like this flip of a switch too. They
need to be back to normal, we're all happy again,
we're letting it go. And it's like, this girl needs
(28:58):
a minute to process this because she's not going to
just snap out of this right now, and she she
doesn't deserve to snap out of it right now. It's like, yeah,
it takes a minute to establish that back, but she
what did you think about she? When they're hugging in there,
it's raining and it's it's always raining in these intense moments.
It's always raining. Mother nature has like always shows up,
(29:25):
always always answers to this assignment. But what did you
think about him then telling Katie that she he can
see her at the end of this. He didn't say
it's you at the end of this, but pretty much
I did not. Well, no, he said it to her end, Gabby,
And that's where it's like, Okay, you're at this point.
(29:45):
I understand that it's your thought process, like I'm hoping
if you're getting to the end into a potential engagement
with women, like you could see a future with them.
But again, not everything has to be said, Like you
can feel certain things and you don't always have to
vocalize them in every scenario. And I think I think
(30:05):
he's like kind of in this panic mode now after
everything that's happened, where he's afraid of losing Gabby. He's
telling her, okay'm falling in love with you. I can
see a future with you. But on the flip side,
he's also afraid of losing Katie, so he tells her,
I can see a future with you and I could
really see this long term with you, which again like
(30:27):
you can feel those things for both women, but maybe
don't vocalize it given the situation, right, right, because then
it just comes off to viewers and us that you're
just trying to like save something, and it's like, well,
you didn't stick to your word and now you're saying
all of these things at this moment, and it's just
(30:51):
I would have appreciated a little bit again, more discipline
with holding back your words at that time. I think
it ran a little more respectful. Yeah. Well, because now
fast forward again, this is months later now that this
is airing, but both women are going to be seeing them,
but all three women, Ariel's gonna be seeing this too.
Like I'm trying to think of like if I was
(31:14):
Gabby watching this show back with my family or friends,
or if I was Katie watching this show back and
seeing what Zach is saying, I would be I feel
like I'd be taking steps back and I'd be so
confused of like, well, you told me this, but you
also told the same woman, a different woman, this same sentiment,
like you know, like what is it that you want?
Like you can be falling for both of us and
(31:34):
have these feelings, but just don't say the same damn
thing to both of us, like, there's got to be
some differentiation here all. I hope to God that just
I hope to God Ariel knows a situation like I
hope to God that she's not learning about this whole
situation as well as you know, Bachelor Nations watching it
(31:55):
live to find out that you know, it wasn't no
sex week, you know, Yeah, I really hope that conversation
was had at some point with her so that she's
also prepared and she's not getting kind of taken out
with it. And again, it doesn't it's not intentional, it's
(32:20):
just getting a little messy, yes, very How would you, Okay,
how do you like if you were in Katie's position
and you have this day portion where like your person,
your partner tells you what Zach had told Katie, how
would you have responded or handled it? Because there was
a point where Katie basically said she didn't want to
go and spend the overnight with him. You know, she
(32:42):
was very confused. She shows up. How would you How
do you think you would have responded if you were her?
I think that would have been pissed off, just as
pissed off. I think I would have. I don't know.
I think I think when it's hard, when you're like
(33:02):
in that position and you're close to end, you really
have put yourself through a lot of pain to get
to this point, and you're like, Okay, I could just
walk away now, or I can sit down and have
another conversation about it. And I think that's where I
would have done what I've done, as I would have
sat down to have another conversation about it with whoever
the like, whoever the lead was, especially because at that point,
(33:25):
like Katie's feelings or like if you are falling in
love or maybe you're in love by now and you're
not saying it, or you have these just really strong feelings,
I would want to sit down and have another conversation.
But me showing up to the table does not mean
that I'm stepping into that fantasy suite, because if that
conversation doesn't go how I or if I don't get
what I need out of that conversation, like bye. I
(33:49):
feel like there was something that we missed between between
their date portion and the night portion, because it seems
like Katie came back and it was in better spirits
and like they talked through it pretty quickly. It was
a very quick adjustment. I don't know if that was
just Katie really taking time to process, and some people
(34:11):
process quicker than others and are able to just like refocus,
and that's kind of what it seemed like she did.
Seemed like she refocused, and it seemed like they were
back on the same page. Of course, there's parts to
me that I'm like, no, put up a little bit
more of a fight, like you know what I mean,
make them work for it. But at the end of
the day, they're on the same page, and that's what
(34:31):
they want, you know, that's what we want for them too,
And so it seemed like they're able to get past it,
you know, all smiles forward or whatever whatever it was.
Who wasn't on the same page was Gabby at the
Rose ceremony, and I totally understand where she was also
(34:52):
coming from where she she wasn't feeling great during the
Row ceremony, and she basically said that she feels like
Zach clear his conscious conscience at the expense of her heart.
How do you feel hearing that statement? That was so powerful,
That was so powerful, But it's it's such both sides
(35:15):
are such a controversial statement to argue because I think, okay,
so I think what gab okay, so I think what
Gabby meant by this is when she said when she
said that phrase, it was like she felt like he
(35:36):
said all these things and then actually, I'm gonna retract
what I'm saying. I don't think there is an argument
because when it goes when I'm actually like thinking about
processing that episode and everything, she's going off the body
language too. She's going off the bottom language where she
feels like Zach's not looking at her. She's talking about
he cleared his conscious in the in the fact that
(35:58):
he you know, when you clear conscience, you feel lighter,
you feel happy, You're you're like no sweat anymore. But
but but she's still hurting, and it doesn't matter that
she's still hurting because he's like, oh, thank god, I'm
moving on with it. So actually, yeah, that's that's kind
of when you like sit down and think about what
she personally meant and all the other thoughts that she
expressed in her interviews of Zach's not looking at me,
(36:22):
he said all these things. He made this decision without me.
I could I got one hundred percent feel like why
she felt that way. What about not only that, but
if I was Gabby and there was the little bit
I don't know if you caught this, but when Zach
was walking area all out where it's just gabbing Katie
talking Katie basically, it's like, I know it was you,
you know, like I know that you're the one Zach
(36:43):
slept with. I feel like there's a moment where I
would have felt very unprotected from my partner of like, Okay,
I know Zach was like being honest with you, but
he also didn't need to name names and like bring
your name into it. It was frustrating. It was frustrating
to why, just because I know that you always want
to in Like I said, Zack's not a bad person,
(37:06):
and this is a very intense situation to be in.
It's just hard to it's hard to see that, and
it's hard to see so many inconsiderate mistakes made after
each other. I think that's what it comes down to.
It just ended up being very inconsiderate, step after step
after step. Yeah, and that's what's really frustrating to see
(37:29):
because there's at one point it's not a mistake, it's
just inconsiderate. Well with that, those are art takes on
Fantasy Sweet week. That's that that was a lot. I mean,
Zach was a line when we had him on, he
said it was juicy and so, I I mean, I
(37:51):
don't know what's going to happen next week. We got
our two ladies left. Yeah, one week left, and we'll
see who ends up with Zach the end before that though, Michelle,
I know, usually we have our guests on to do
the resource and Rosenthorne, but since it's just us this week,
let's get into that. So to all of our new
(38:13):
listeners who maybe haven't heard this part before. Every week
we share important resources that we like to have on
hands that are easily accessible for anyone to access on
our instagrams where you can either go, watch, read, listen,
check out whatever resource we were recommending. This week, one
of my resources and it's similar, it's kind of similar
to one that you had shared a few weeks ago,
(38:34):
or maybe like a month or two ago now, Michelle.
But it's a website called we Buy Black And this
is something that we've we've talked about supporting black owned
businesses before, but this website is one that you can
go to and it's all black owned businesses from I
mean they have literally everything from apparel to books, to electronics,
to home goods to like really you name it whatever.
(38:58):
And so again, it's just so good to go out
and support black owned businesses. And again, like when you're traveling,
especially to to check out black owned restaurants or shops
in whatever areas you're in. So that is my resource
for the week. What about you, Michelle amazing, I am
going to So this is a little bit of a
different one. It's called it's like just this new groundbreaking
(39:22):
technology piece that came out. It's called like the Virtual Project.
Actually this really cool experience or so I don't even
know if I want to call it a social experiment,
but an experience where you can put on a VR
headset and you can experience going through what it is
(39:44):
like to live day to day as a person of color.
This is very similar to what my resource was last
episode where I talked about this short film. This piece
is more about like the experience of microggressions. Now, I'm
going to be very clear to say that you don't
(40:05):
just put on this VR headset and like understand everything right,
but it can be or it seems to be a
very eye opening experience that actually results in just different
you know, emotions that could potentially be experienced. And that's
what I found really interesting about reading about it as
(40:28):
far as like where you can access it. There's different
things where you can kind of watch videos of it
taking place. And again this is this is remind you
of people who are like kind of learning in these
processes as well. It's really nice when you can take
a VR headset on and off and that's what determines
what you're what you're going through. But for other people,
(40:49):
it's not this like full this is not a full
experience where you all of a sudden understand where it's
just a snippet of what a person could potentially really experience. Okay, interesting, Yeah,
so it's a project, is it? Um? Like, so, say
somebody does have their VR headset, now, is it something
that they can like actually accessors. It's still in the works,
(41:11):
like you can watch videos about it. But so right now,
it seems like it's very much in like a social
experiment stage. Okay, it's it's you know, I think it
would be. I think it's going to be handled with
a little bit more care. It's not one of those
things where it's like here, go buy that app and
experience microaggressions, like that's really wrong. But it's more of
this m VR technology that they're kind of working on
(41:36):
and backing with science and just doing these different things
with it as something kind of like you know, you
go to a museum and you learn about different things
African American Museum, Holocaust museum, you experience different emotions there.
It's kind of the same concept except through VR headset,
but with more like personalized experience. Yeah. But yeah, it's
(42:00):
not like it's not like get yours here story so
I can I can link the article and I can
link the just the article has all the videos and
a little bit about the social experiment that has been
taking place and just people's reactions that have okay, experienced it. Yeah,
I'm very intrigued to follow that along. It would be
(42:20):
interesting to see like what settings it would be most
beneficial in. I mean, I would say a lot of them,
but like for career path likes her career paths and
education definitely, So okay, that's yeah, handle with care. It
was just kind of really interesting of just something that people, Yeah,
(42:40):
when when you're able to. It might potentially allow you
to steve in someone else's shoes. Yeah, is what it
kind of sounds like. So we'll see, I'll keep, I'll keep,
I'll keep up to date on okay, and see what happens.
All right, Well, thank you for that one, um. And then,
since again we don't have a guest, you and I
have to share our rose and thorn from this week's episode.
(43:05):
Let's start with our rose or are thrown first, and
then we'll end on a good note. We'll end with
a rose. Okay, I'm gonna go first, you want, okay? Um,
my thorn would have to be just the this whole
(43:26):
week being labeled sex week, um, and really making it
up so intensely and about something that it's really not
for a lot of people. So I would say that
my rose is watching the women continue to be honest
with what they're feeling, and so with Gabby being vulnerable
(43:51):
and continue to challenge herself to be open about her discomfort, Um,
Katie with not wanting to bounce back and just areal
as she handled that situation when she was let go
or sent home. Just I think they all all the
women conducted themselves in a very nice manner. So, okay,
it's my rose, all right, I love that. Okay, my
(44:15):
thorn is going to be I think just overall seeing
someone so adamant in something not stand by their word,
and I'm just gonna leave it at that, that would
probably be my thorn because I think it was the
catalyst for many many other things that just spiraled from there.
(44:37):
So that's the beginning of it. And then, you know what,
my rose is going to be them in Thailand because
it is a place I've traveled to several times. It
is absolutely such a stunning country, the culture, the food, everything,
and so to see that back on the screen and
(44:57):
see parts of it highlighted again, I think was just
really fun for me. And yeah, I'm glad that they've
been able to go to some really cool cities and
countries this year. So that is going to be my rose.
And with that, Michelle, thank you for joining me on
Happy Hour once again. What a crazy season, what a
(45:18):
crazy episode. Yeah, next week's the finale, so everyone, thanks
for tuning in too, Happy Hour, but make sure you
tune in next week for Zach's journey coming to an end.
After the final Rows will be on Monday, March twenty
seventh at eight seventh Central on ABC, and you can
also stream it the next day on Hulu and make
(45:38):
sure to hit us up on social. You can follow
us at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram and from there
you'll find everything you need to know to follow us
on Twitter and TikTok and prior members. You can listen
about your happy hour ad free on Amazon Music to
some of the Amazon Music app today, or you can
listen ad free with Wondering Plus in Apple Podcasts. But
before you go, tell us all about yourself by completing
(46:00):
a short survey at wondaree dot com slash survey. Thank
you everyone, and see you next week. Cheers
Welcome back to another week Happy Hour listeners. I'm one
of your hosts, Becky Poufriend and I'm Michelle Young, and
we are back with a very juicy, a very intense,
and emotional week to catch up on that just unfolded
with these fantasy suites. Yes, we have so many thoughts
(00:24):
on all that went down with Zach this week and
can't wait to hash out what has happened on our screens.
So let's get right into it. Back up, where do
we begin? I feel like when the host says, like,
first time in bachelor history, is this the first that
everything that unfolded tonight or the last night? Well, what
(00:47):
is he saying is a first? Like that's when Jesse's
like this is the first? It's like, well, what, what's
what's the first? Like a guy saying something and that
they're not doing it, because that's not that's not a first.
But I mean, I definitely think it's one of the
more intense fantasy suite weeks that we've ever seen, especially
(01:10):
probably within I would say recent years. The only other
one that comes to mind that was an intense time
this week was I think Colton's week when he jumped
the fence. Yeah, I do remember that, but for completely
different reasons. But I would say, I see my mind
(01:31):
goes to Clayton's season, but that was the episode after
when he had to tell all of the women. We're
just kind of having that same situation a little bit,
just a little bit earlier. So let's get into it,
and before we talk, you know, episode specifics, let's talk
(01:53):
about the whole significance of fantasy suites. What do you
remember about your mindset going into fantasy suits? Yeah, And
I want to say, I hate how they keep saying
it's sex week because, like I think that people just
have this connotation where it's like you're only going to
go to bang these people. Like that's not the case.
This is really the first alone time that the leads
(02:17):
have with any of their contestants where it's not just sex.
It's a chance to ask important conversations, to just get
to know somebody on a much more deep intimate level
without necessarily having to be intimate. Like it's really pivotal,
and you do learn a lot about the other person
(02:38):
that you're spending the night with. Yeah, I'm like trying
to think going back eons ago of when I was
going into fantasy suites, I spoke about finances, didn't you.
Oh yeah, well I went in. I ask certain questions
(03:02):
that I think were really good, and then I did
not ask certain questions which I probably should have during
this week, which when I went I will say what
I went into Paradise I was much more mindful of.
But yeah, I remember one one question I really wanted
to ask them. This is something that another contestant on
when I was on The Bachelor had brought up, and
it was about finances and like like what kind of
(03:25):
debt do you have? Because if you have it, like
I'd rather be well aware of that, Like if we're
going to be in this together and potentially, you know,
had this proposal, like what am I taking on as
your partner? Right? So yeah, I again this was so
long ago, but I was just ready to be alone,
(03:45):
and like I wanted to see the little things like
how do we interact with each other when there's no
one kind of narrating our topics of conversation or what
we're doing for the day. Like I really just wanted
to see like the fluidity of like is it awkward?
Can we carry on this conversation? Like how do we
feel with each other? Is it comfortable to the point
where like we could take the next step. So that
(04:07):
was my mindset of just like seeing the level. And
to be honest, I went into it and I only
I only had overnights with two guys. I ended up
sending one person home that week. But what was your
mindset going into it? Very similar? I was just really
really looking forward to the conversations that we didn't have
(04:27):
to pause if someone was interruptingly, if a producer was interrupting,
or if some a cameraman needed to switch over tape
or like whatever. It was. That just the little nuances
that are pig nuances honestly that go on when you're
filming a massive TV show and so being able to
just like sit there and hang out with somebody, and
when you're with somebody for eight hours straight, when you're
going on a one on one, when you're going on
(04:49):
a group day, like you might be around that person,
but like even when you're on a one on one,
you have them all to yourself, you're really not physically
with them the entire day. Like there's a lot of
breaks to get pulled away for interviews, they get pulled
away for interviews, like you have pauses where you're talking
to producers, they're talking to producers. So it's really just
like cut up quite a bit your time together. And
(05:09):
so I was looking forward to like nobody, nobody's going
to interrupt because like our conversations, nobody's gonna, you know,
gear anything a different direction, and so I get to
talk about what I want to talk about when I
want to talk about it, whether that's finances, financial goals,
whether that's getting more in depth about families or views
or whatever it is. I just that's the biggest thing,
(05:31):
is the fact that I felt like I was able
to just go back to being me or just because
that's me the whole time. But you know what I mean,
like going back to the basics of let's pull ourselves
off a TV show for a second. Yeah, really see,
like is this actually possible? It's so important And again
just to see that like comfort level of what you
(05:54):
could have with somebody is so important. And just like,
let's be honest, every time you spend the night with
somebody new, like for the first time, like emotions are high,
you're a little bit more anxious, you don't know how
it's going to go, you overthink things like, Okay, do
I brush my teeth in front of you? Do I
spit my toothpaste out? Like little things like that that
(06:14):
are you know, like until you're alone with somebody you
don't know. And so I think it was just for me,
like and also I really wanted to take the pressure off.
Like I didn't want to go into the week or
the night with any expectations. Again, like I knew that
there were certain things that I wanted to talk about
and like stories for me that were super important that
(06:36):
I wanted to share in that moment away from absolutely
everybody else. But other than that, I didn't want to
set myself up for like I'm gonna say this or
I have to do this, or I have to not
do that, because I know myself and in the past,
every time I set myself up and like have this
like level or standard, it never goes that way. Or
(06:58):
you know, like I've always joked in the podcast of
like if I definitely say no to something, the opposite's
going to happen. Like we sat with Paradis. I said
I was not going to do Paradise. Did Paradise, So,
like I didn't want to go into overnights with that mindset,
which wasn't necessarily the case here, which yeah, it's it's tough.
(07:20):
It puts you in a weird headspace, which as we're
trying to recap this episode, I want people to realize,
like we're trying to see all sides here and remember
what it was like to be a contestant in Fantasy
Sweet Week or be a lead in Fantasy Sweet Week.
But let's get into it. Because we see Zach, Ariel, Gabby,
(07:41):
and Katie all head to Thailand, and right away Zach
sets the tone, sets this precedence with Jesse and has
this very in depth, intentional conversation. He really sets this
up at the beginning of like, I'm going to be
very intentional this week. I am not going to be intimate.
(08:03):
I do not want to sleep with any of these women.
I just want to be able to have a lone
time have conversations with them, but like sex is off
the table. What did you think in that moment, Like
did you take it well, like okay, you know, good
for him, he's setting a bar here, or were you
(08:25):
like okay, buddy, Like this doesn't always go as planned.
I think with where I stood is just it's Sacks season,
so he can stand by the like whatever choices he feels,
whatever focus he feels, and all those different things. I
(08:47):
also was just kind of looking at him and just
how he's kind of carried himself throughout the season. And
he's a very strong, physical, touched person. Let's just say that,
like he he's noted that himself. And so he really
made this like huge, massive announcement that really got spoken about,
spoken about, spoken about, spoken about, and I was curious
(09:12):
to see, Okay, is this something that he's going to
be able to stick to, because that's a large statement
and that's great if you choose to focus or handle
it in that manner, but you're also putting yourself in
a situation to not live up to your word. And
that's what happened, And that's where I struggled, or didn't struggle,
(09:35):
but just I felt for the women going through this episode.
I and just kind of as everything started to unfold
and going back to Arial's fantasy steep because she was
the first one they seemed to really connect. And I'm
(09:59):
curious if this would have this whole statement would have
gotten retracted even quicker, if it would have been Katie
or Gabby in the first Fantasy Suite. What are your thoughts? Well,
I think that, and again like I don't really know Zach.
We've only had him on the podcast a couple of times.
(10:20):
Like all I can go off of is what I
see when we interview him and what I see as
a viewer. But to me, Zach has never been a
guy that this has been such a highlighted thing. It's
not like what we've seen in the past, where we
have had several people who are virgins on the show
or born again virgins on the show. And so I
(10:44):
think for somebody to kind of remove themselves from like
who they are, how they might typically act and like
turn it a complete one eighty, I don't think we'll
set you up for success. Like I think he went
into its adamant and again, he is a very physical
touch person. He said that himself on our podcast. It's
(11:08):
it's I feel like you're changing yourself so much for
this one week or what you stand by or how
you've operated in the past, that it might potentially lead
to failure because you're trying to be an act in
such a different way. And again, like I don't know
Zach's past. I can only assume in like what I'm
seeing as a critical thinker here, but I think he
(11:30):
was so adamant up front, which might not like this,
This might not be how he usually operates. So I'm like, okay,
like I understand where you're coming from and like wanting
to be very open and like have this even playing
field with all the women. But if this is how
you usually don't operate in your other relationships, it's it
might not be beneficial in this regard. And then after that,
(11:54):
I just I'm going to be completely honest, he just
really lost me with how everything beyond that was handled,
because it'd be one thing to just say that that
and you know, go into your overnights to have that
conversation and just like actually stand by what you say.
But I just got really lost after everything because again,
like I felt for these women in very different ways.
(12:17):
But yeah, again, like I don't even know where to
begin with this. I think it's so much and I
think like his date with Ariel was fine, his overnight
was fine. I think it was kind of what he
expected and wanted out of it. So let's get into Gabby,
because Gabby's date is we see her very much so
(12:42):
in her head, very much struggling with as she said,
like being chosen second or second best. And this is
where I'm starting to see bits of Zac where I
think he might and again I could be totally off base,
but I think he might like to be a protector.
And I do quotes like in a way or like
(13:02):
a fixer, and like, you know, we've always seen an
area like pretty confident, pretty strong, very mysterious, like doesn't
really need much help. But with the other two women,
I think he needs to be there a little bit more,
as like that shoulder to cry on, to pick them up.
But we start to see him like take on a
different role with both Gabby and then with Katie. But
(13:23):
I think he probably feels most comfortable in that role
as like trying to take care of somebody else. And
so Gabby's really struggling again with confidence being second best,
chosen second, even though in this situation it's not up
to Zach. He can't pick the news flash everyone, you
can't pick what order your fantasies. Who doesn't It is
(13:43):
just handed to you and it is what it is.
So he's helping Gabby on this date and they have
this moment where he's there to support her and pick
her up and kind of get her past this hump
of this self doubt. They go into the night portion,
they have this overnight which they both seem and correct
(14:05):
me if I'm wrong, but they both seem to be
very happy at ease in that moment. When they wake
up the next day, they feel very connected. It seems
like it went well, right, Yes, but I want to
pause you there for a second, because even before they
get into this overnight date or fantasy suite, when Zach
(14:26):
tells Gabby that he's not having sex with anybody, her
reaction is very strong. She feels very strongly about this,
and she seems to She seems to be very just
like she's understood, like she comes across understanding, but we
also get to see kind of her process this and
(14:47):
she's understanding, but she says that she's also very disappointed
that this decision was kind of just boldly made and
that it wasn't something that they discussed, you know, within
the relationship. She almost seemed like she was going to
challenge it a little bit, but like respectfully challenge it, right,
I think with both women with first aerial and then Gabby.
(15:09):
They were both very taken aback, and it wasn't what
they expected, right, Like, I don't think they totally thought
sex and intimacy would be taken off the table, but yeah,
but I think it was like right before they closed
the door, Gabby said something to like, well, he says,
we're not sleeping together, but we'll see something along those lines,
and she's like, the bed is so big for so
(15:29):
many activities, like during the day she does as these
funny one liners as Gabby always does. Yeah, yeah, and
so I think that's definitely foreshadowing and alluding to something
that is to come. We don't know what switched overnight.
(15:50):
We don't know what happened, nor do I want to.
That is between them. But the part where I really
felt for Gabby was they seemed great in that morning,
in that moment, they seem very connected. And then he
leaves and then he has this moment where in his
interviews he's like, I feel guilty and it kind of
(16:12):
takes this like negative turn, And all I can think
about is how Gabby is feeling watching this back now
after they just shared this moment, after her insecurities, and
she was very vocal and being very vulnerable about what
her struggles in this process are and then to have
to hear and see that has got to be so
freaking tough. It's so tough. And as a lead, at
(16:38):
what point you want to be honest and you want
to be vulnerable and this is your journey, this is
your love journey. And it's hard because typically you're up
to discretion of sharing what you would like to share
about your journey. But at what point, Again, it was
like this constant sight of them, like one eighty of decisions.
(17:02):
It was this bold statement of I'm not taking part
in any of these physical activities, and then it we
find out that it flipped, but then we find out
then he needs to talk about it, and so like
now fantasy sweets is not private, and she kind of
I would feel like I had whiplash too a little
(17:23):
bit in her position, just because it's like, okay, well,
what pieces are safe? Because you say one thing and
then you did the other. And I get that she
part took in the activities as well, But then at
the same time, you have that certain amount of trust,
you have what you said that you talk about very
intimate private things as well, and you would hope that
somebody keeps those to themselves or want to protect you
(17:46):
with it, or at least asks you and has that
convert like asks you about your thoughts on having that
conversation before just boldly making a decision, because at the
end of the day, if you're approaching this as a team,
then you need to play as a team even when
you're a lead. Which I'm so happy you said that,
(18:06):
because that is the main point where I got lost
in this from Zach is at some point, when does
it stop becoming just your show and when does it
become your teammate and you together. And I think in
the conversation where he goes back and talks to Gabby
after he feels guilty, he basically he starting out he
(18:28):
made the decision I'm not going to sleep with anyone,
but then he does, and then he goes to Gabby
makes the decision of well, I have to let these
other women know. And that's the part where I was like, Zach,
I understand your mindset and wanting to be honest, and
you cannot lie and this is weighing on you. But
also it takes two to tango, and you're not even
(18:50):
asking for Gabby's thoughts side of things, for how she
feels she would want you to handle this. We did
not see any of that, which is what caught me.
And that is to the point where I'm like, again,
it is so one sided, where you're not making this
decision about what you did with another woman and bringing
it into another relationship that it might guess you are
(19:12):
the lead, but it might not be solely your plays,
and it becomes so public, like something so intimate becomes
so public now, and it's it's not that that conversation
couldn't have maybe happened if you ended up with you know,
like if you end up with whatever person, Like I
(19:34):
know a lot of people talk about what has taken
place in fantasy suits because it's like you want to
have all of those different different conversations to be just
open about everything. But it was, yeah, it was him
making the decision. And then at what point did you
did you ever think, like what about Ariel? Because I
know that we kind of start to get into this
(19:55):
where he really comes into I have to tell the women,
like I have to let everybody know about what happened,
what I did, like my misstep, how things have changed,
and he talks to Gabby or he speaks to Gabby
and then we can assume that he's going to speak
to Katie because he's about to see her on her
fantasy suite. But that I'm like, what about Ariel, Like
(20:19):
are we gonna go tell the girl that we already
had a fantasy suite with that? Like we said this
bold thing and then we flip fop because that's that's
a respect thing too. For me, it's like, why are
we were respecting two women over here? But like, Ariel
is the third party in there. She's a third party
in this and whether regardless of whatever it is, you
(20:39):
made the energy, you put the energy forward to put
this out there in such a large way, So I
think you need to also address it to Ariel. And
that's not something we see And so I'm kind of
thrown off by that. I'm thrown off by everything. If
I'm being completely honest, I don't understand, like I'm trying to.
I'm really trying to as a viewer, and again, like
(21:00):
I'm trying to put myself back in the lead shoes
to be like, Okay, how if I was Zack, Like
how would I be feeling how would I handle this?
And like, quite honestly, like I don't know how. I
don't have an answer because we would go into these
weeks totally different, right. But but yeah, I think if
you're gonna if in the in the like matter of
(21:22):
being totally transparent and honest, I mean, you can't just
pick and choose who and when you're gonna be honest.
It's gonna have to be across the board, which which
wasn't the case here. And so it's a struggle I
think also to what is what's hard with the Gabby
conversation before he goes on his date with Katie is
(21:44):
and again, Gabby's gonna watch us all back, and it's
just going to be a lot to take it because
she'll see his interviews, she'll see his conversation again that
he had with Gabby where he's now saying, I'm falling
in love with you, and it's what did you think
about this timing of that? By the way, I well,
(22:05):
I don't think it was the right place or the
right time. I don't and that's just me and maybe
Zach was Zach has his own thought process, But I
don't think it was the right place or the right time,
especially given this is now this is turning into a
bigger deal than it maybe ever needed to be because
(22:25):
of this beginning proclamation. But now it's just I think
you're just adding on more and more potential hurt for
not only Gabby or the whoever, like the second person
is at the end of this, Like right, I think, yeah,
I think he entered this week with the correct intentions
(22:46):
of not wanting to put this weight of how like
this thought of having intimacy with another person on whoever
he ends up with. I think that was his prime
or I hope that that was his prime thought or
her first thought of I really just don't want to
(23:07):
put those women through that, so then let's hold off.
But I think once you say it, like you got
to be a man of your word, so that means
and you just don't sleep with anybody period, truly, Like
and I know that it's important, but it's just like,
so is your word. And then the way that it
was it was out of respect for the women at
the beginning, and it kind of tries to continue to
(23:30):
do that, but like we're continuing to miss the ball,
and then it's like the you know, it's really easy
to say, wait, no, I'm falling in love with you
when you feel like a relationship is threatened and they're
about to walk away. Of course you feel that intense fear,
and those are those moments where you have less of
a filter and you just want to say something. But
it's like, I wish I would have seen more discipline
(23:52):
with his actions and more discipline with his words, because
it seemed like he was basically telling Gabby, it's basically you.
And then he flips around and goes on the date
with Katie and it's the same conversation in reverse. I
slept with this other person, and like, I want you
(24:13):
to stick through this because I can really see at
the end of this I'm falling love it. So it
was just like everywhere, okay, and let me ask you this,
and maybe it's and again everyone's answer here could be
vastly different. But do you think it holds more weight
to Okay, say Zach never went into this week saying
(24:34):
I'm not going to sleep with anyone or be intimate, Okay,
But what if he went into this week saying I'm
not going to tell anyone I love them? Do you
think it holds more weight to sleep with somebody or
to say you're that you are falling in love or
you love someone like, what do you think ultimately would
hurt Gabby in the end more or hurt the other
women in the end more. I think that it's such
(24:58):
a personal preference. I think, I mean, both of them
hold very strong weights. I think for me, it's just
like you have to picture that person being with somebody else.
That's really hard. It's hard to hear someone say I
love you to somebody else as well. Right, so they're
both difficult. I don't know. I don't know if one's
easier than the other. I just think that if I think,
(25:19):
it's all about sticking to your word with what you say,
and that's what goes back to. So it's like if
you say, they both would have raised question, they both
would have broken my trust. If you tell me you're
not going to say I love you too anyone until
the final then that you need to stick by that.
If you tell me that you're not going to sleep
with anybody, then you need to stick with that. Otherwise,
when you're speaking your actions, your words aren't met meeting
(25:41):
up and so what can I trust you? On period.
I think from my perspective and from living through the
show as a contestant, you know, obviously, like we both
made it to fantasy suits with our respected lead, respective leads.
I was in the position and where two women were
(26:03):
told that the lead was falling in love with them,
and to be honest, that was harder I think to
digest than what would happen in overnights because again this
is me, but like physical intimacy is one thing, but
like the deep feelings of love, like that is such
a big word and such a big statement, a statement
(26:26):
slash action. That that is what was harder. In the end,
did your lead those say, did your lead say, I'm
not going to say this until the end, because that's
where I play into it is no, really, just you're
putting yourself in a situation where, like you, it is
very likely for you to fall in love with more
(26:47):
than one person, and that's it's it's hard to navigate that.
I think what's more difficult is like if you're going
to establish boundaries that you're not going to stick to. Yeah, yeah, no,
And in that case, I mean, as far as I'm
aware that like that I love you, I'm not going
to say I love you that anyone. He never did.
But that's why I went into my season being like,
(27:09):
I'm only going to reserve this for one final person
at the end, and that was my boundary that I
said that I knew I would be able to stick to.
That's the thing. So again, like with Gabby, I don't
think that was the time or the place to say that.
(27:30):
And then now let's fast forward to Katie's date. He
tells her during the day, so basically their whole date
is fixated on this conversation. And again, like I don't
know how in depth he needed to be, but I
could understand Katie's reaction and being like I kind of
assumed as an adult certain things would happen. I don't
(27:51):
need you to vocalize them and talk to me about
them and tell me this now, and that just you know,
made me pull away in some sense. Yeah, I appreciated
her saying I'm not happy right now, so I'm not
going to put on a fake face. I'm not going
to put on a smile. I appreciated her vocalizing that
because I do think that there's times where it's like, okay,
(28:14):
she actually said this herself, it's like, Okay, you told
me you do you want a cookie? Do you want
a gold star? She said something? She said something, How
do you want my reaction to be? Do you want
me to pack? It was like, it was like we do.
Honesty is a very very good thing. But I think
it's a huge reminder that when we hurt somebody, and
even though telling the truth isn't easy, it's not this
instant gratification of the other person being okay and for
(28:37):
them to stab out of it. And that's just part
of hurting people, like when you hurt people in relationships,
regardless across the board, not just Zach. Is that a
lot of times when we apologize, we expect it to
just be like this flip of a switch too. They
need to be back to normal, we're all happy again,
we're letting it go. And it's like, this girl needs
(28:58):
a minute to process this because she's not going to
just snap out of this right now, and she she
doesn't deserve to snap out of it right now. It's like, yeah,
it takes a minute to establish that back, but she
what did you think about she? When they're hugging in there,
it's raining and it's it's always raining in these intense moments.
It's always raining. Mother nature has like always shows up,
(29:25):
always always answers to this assignment. But what did you
think about him then telling Katie that she he can
see her at the end of this. He didn't say
it's you at the end of this, but pretty much
I did not. Well, no, he said it to her end, Gabby,
And that's where it's like, Okay, you're at this point.
(29:45):
I understand that it's your thought process, like I'm hoping
if you're getting to the end into a potential engagement
with women, like you could see a future with them.
But again, not everything has to be said, Like you
can feel certain things and you don't always have to
vocalize them in every scenario. And I think I think
(30:05):
he's like kind of in this panic mode now after
everything that's happened, where he's afraid of losing Gabby. He's
telling her, okay'm falling in love with you. I can
see a future with you. But on the flip side,
he's also afraid of losing Katie, so he tells her,
I can see a future with you and I could
really see this long term with you, which again like
(30:27):
you can feel those things for both women, but maybe
don't vocalize it given the situation, right, right, because then
it just comes off to viewers and us that you're
just trying to like save something, and it's like, well,
you didn't stick to your word and now you're saying
all of these things at this moment, and it's just
(30:51):
I would have appreciated a little bit again, more discipline
with holding back your words at that time. I think
it ran a little more respectful. Yeah. Well, because now
fast forward again, this is months later now that this
is airing, but both women are going to be seeing them,
but all three women, Ariel's gonna be seeing this too.
Like I'm trying to think of like if I was
(31:14):
Gabby watching this show back with my family or friends,
or if I was Katie watching this show back and
seeing what Zach is saying, I would be I feel
like I'd be taking steps back and I'd be so
confused of like, well, you told me this, but you
also told the same woman, a different woman, this same sentiment,
like you know, like what is it that you want?
Like you can be falling for both of us and
(31:34):
have these feelings, but just don't say the same damn
thing to both of us, like, there's got to be
some differentiation here all. I hope to God that just
I hope to God Ariel knows a situation like I
hope to God that she's not learning about this whole
situation as well as you know, Bachelor Nations watching it
(31:55):
live to find out that you know, it wasn't no
sex week, you know, Yeah, I really hope that conversation
was had at some point with her so that she's
also prepared and she's not getting kind of taken out
with it. And again, it doesn't it's not intentional, it's
(32:20):
just getting a little messy, yes, very How would you, Okay,
how do you like if you were in Katie's position
and you have this day portion where like your person,
your partner tells you what Zach had told Katie, how
would you have responded or handled it? Because there was
a point where Katie basically said she didn't want to
go and spend the overnight with him. You know, she
(32:42):
was very confused. She shows up. How would you How
do you think you would have responded if you were her?
I think that would have been pissed off, just as
pissed off. I think I would have. I don't know.
I think I think when it's hard, when you're like
(33:02):
in that position and you're close to end, you really
have put yourself through a lot of pain to get
to this point, and you're like, Okay, I could just
walk away now, or I can sit down and have
another conversation about it. And I think that's where I
would have done what I've done, as I would have
sat down to have another conversation about it with whoever
the like, whoever the lead was, especially because at that point,
(33:25):
like Katie's feelings or like if you are falling in
love or maybe you're in love by now and you're
not saying it, or you have these just really strong feelings,
I would want to sit down and have another conversation.
But me showing up to the table does not mean
that I'm stepping into that fantasy suite, because if that
conversation doesn't go how I or if I don't get
what I need out of that conversation, like bye. I
(33:49):
feel like there was something that we missed between between
their date portion and the night portion, because it seems
like Katie came back and it was in better spirits
and like they talked through it pretty quickly. It was
a very quick adjustment. I don't know if that was
just Katie really taking time to process, and some people
(34:11):
process quicker than others and are able to just like refocus,
and that's kind of what it seemed like she did.
Seemed like she refocused, and it seemed like they were
back on the same page. Of course, there's parts to
me that I'm like, no, put up a little bit
more of a fight, like you know what I mean,
make them work for it. But at the end of
the day, they're on the same page, and that's what
(34:31):
they want, you know, that's what we want for them too,
And so it seemed like they're able to get past it,
you know, all smiles forward or whatever whatever it was.
Who wasn't on the same page was Gabby at the
Rose ceremony, and I totally understand where she was also
(34:52):
coming from where she she wasn't feeling great during the
Row ceremony, and she basically said that she feels like
Zach clear his conscious conscience at the expense of her heart.
How do you feel hearing that statement? That was so powerful,
That was so powerful, But it's it's such both sides
(35:15):
are such a controversial statement to argue because I think, okay,
so I think what gab okay, so I think what
Gabby meant by this is when she said when she
said that phrase, it was like she felt like he
(35:36):
said all these things and then actually, I'm gonna retract
what I'm saying. I don't think there is an argument
because when it goes when I'm actually like thinking about
processing that episode and everything, she's going off the body
language too. She's going off the bottom language where she
feels like Zach's not looking at her. She's talking about
he cleared his conscious in the in the fact that
(35:58):
he you know, when you clear conscience, you feel lighter,
you feel happy, You're you're like no sweat anymore. But
but but she's still hurting, and it doesn't matter that
she's still hurting because he's like, oh, thank god, I'm
moving on with it. So actually, yeah, that's that's kind
of when you like sit down and think about what
she personally meant and all the other thoughts that she
expressed in her interviews of Zach's not looking at me,
(36:22):
he said all these things. He made this decision without me.
I could I got one hundred percent feel like why
she felt that way. What about not only that, but
if I was Gabby and there was the little bit
I don't know if you caught this, but when Zach
was walking area all out where it's just gabbing Katie
talking Katie basically, it's like, I know it was you,
you know, like I know that you're the one Zach
(36:43):
slept with. I feel like there's a moment where I
would have felt very unprotected from my partner of like, Okay,
I know Zach was like being honest with you, but
he also didn't need to name names and like bring
your name into it. It was frustrating. It was frustrating
to why, just because I know that you always want
to in Like I said, Zack's not a bad person,
(37:06):
and this is a very intense situation to be in.
It's just hard to it's hard to see that, and
it's hard to see so many inconsiderate mistakes made after
each other. I think that's what it comes down to.
It just ended up being very inconsiderate, step after step
after step. Yeah, and that's what's really frustrating to see
(37:29):
because there's at one point it's not a mistake, it's
just inconsiderate. Well with that, those are art takes on
Fantasy Sweet week. That's that that was a lot. I mean,
Zach was a line when we had him on, he
said it was juicy and so, I I mean, I
(37:51):
don't know what's going to happen next week. We got
our two ladies left. Yeah, one week left, and we'll
see who ends up with Zach the end before that though, Michelle,
I know, usually we have our guests on to do
the resource and Rosenthorne, but since it's just us this week,
let's get into that. So to all of our new
(38:13):
listeners who maybe haven't heard this part before. Every week
we share important resources that we like to have on
hands that are easily accessible for anyone to access on
our instagrams where you can either go, watch, read, listen,
check out whatever resource we were recommending. This week, one
of my resources and it's similar, it's kind of similar
to one that you had shared a few weeks ago,
(38:34):
or maybe like a month or two ago now, Michelle.
But it's a website called we Buy Black And this
is something that we've we've talked about supporting black owned
businesses before, but this website is one that you can
go to and it's all black owned businesses from I
mean they have literally everything from apparel to books, to electronics,
to home goods to like really you name it whatever.
(38:58):
And so again, it's just so good to go out
and support black owned businesses. And again, like when you're traveling,
especially to to check out black owned restaurants or shops
in whatever areas you're in. So that is my resource
for the week. What about you, Michelle amazing, I am
going to So this is a little bit of a
different one. It's called it's like just this new groundbreaking
(39:22):
technology piece that came out. It's called like the Virtual Project.
Actually this really cool experience or so I don't even
know if I want to call it a social experiment,
but an experience where you can put on a VR
headset and you can experience going through what it is
(39:44):
like to live day to day as a person of color.
This is very similar to what my resource was last
episode where I talked about this short film. This piece
is more about like the experience of microggressions. Now, I'm
going to be very clear to say that you don't
(40:05):
just put on this VR headset and like understand everything right,
but it can be or it seems to be a
very eye opening experience that actually results in just different
you know, emotions that could potentially be experienced. And that's
what I found really interesting about reading about it as
(40:28):
far as like where you can access it. There's different
things where you can kind of watch videos of it
taking place. And again this is this is remind you
of people who are like kind of learning in these
processes as well. It's really nice when you can take
a VR headset on and off and that's what determines
what you're what you're going through. But for other people,
(40:49):
it's not this like full this is not a full
experience where you all of a sudden understand where it's
just a snippet of what a person could potentially really experience. Okay, interesting, Yeah,
so it's a project, is it? Um? Like, so, say
somebody does have their VR headset, now, is it something
that they can like actually accessors. It's still in the works,
(41:11):
like you can watch videos about it. But so right now,
it seems like it's very much in like a social
experiment stage. Okay, it's it's you know, I think it
would be. I think it's going to be handled with
a little bit more care. It's not one of those
things where it's like here, go buy that app and
experience microaggressions, like that's really wrong. But it's more of
this m VR technology that they're kind of working on
(41:36):
and backing with science and just doing these different things
with it as something kind of like you know, you
go to a museum and you learn about different things
African American Museum, Holocaust museum, you experience different emotions there.
It's kind of the same concept except through VR headset,
but with more like personalized experience. Yeah. But yeah, it's
(42:00):
not like it's not like get yours here story so
I can I can link the article and I can
link the just the article has all the videos and
a little bit about the social experiment that has been
taking place and just people's reactions that have okay, experienced it. Yeah,
I'm very intrigued to follow that along. It would be
(42:20):
interesting to see like what settings it would be most
beneficial in. I mean, I would say a lot of them,
but like for career path likes her career paths and
education definitely, So okay, that's yeah, handle with care. It
was just kind of really interesting of just something that people, Yeah,
(42:40):
when when you're able to. It might potentially allow you
to steve in someone else's shoes. Yeah, is what it
kind of sounds like. So we'll see, I'll keep, I'll keep,
I'll keep up to date on okay, and see what happens.
All right, Well, thank you for that one, um. And then,
since again we don't have a guest, you and I
have to share our rose and thorn from this week's episode.
(43:05):
Let's start with our rose or are thrown first, and
then we'll end on a good note. We'll end with
a rose. Okay, I'm gonna go first, you want, okay? Um,
my thorn would have to be just the this whole
(43:26):
week being labeled sex week, um, and really making it
up so intensely and about something that it's really not
for a lot of people. So I would say that
my rose is watching the women continue to be honest
with what they're feeling, and so with Gabby being vulnerable
(43:51):
and continue to challenge herself to be open about her discomfort, Um,
Katie with not wanting to bounce back and just areal
as she handled that situation when she was let go
or sent home. Just I think they all all the
women conducted themselves in a very nice manner. So, okay,
it's my rose, all right, I love that. Okay, my
(44:15):
thorn is going to be I think just overall seeing
someone so adamant in something not stand by their word,
and I'm just gonna leave it at that, that would
probably be my thorn because I think it was the
catalyst for many many other things that just spiraled from there.
(44:37):
So that's the beginning of it. And then, you know what,
my rose is going to be them in Thailand because
it is a place I've traveled to several times. It
is absolutely such a stunning country, the culture, the food, everything,
and so to see that back on the screen and
(44:57):
see parts of it highlighted again, I think was just
really fun for me. And yeah, I'm glad that they've
been able to go to some really cool cities and
countries this year. So that is going to be my rose.
And with that, Michelle, thank you for joining me on
Happy Hour once again. What a crazy season, what a
(45:18):
crazy episode. Yeah, next week's the finale, so everyone, thanks
for tuning in too, Happy Hour, but make sure you
tune in next week for Zach's journey coming to an end.
After the final Rows will be on Monday, March twenty
seventh at eight seventh Central on ABC, and you can
also stream it the next day on Hulu and make
(45:38):
sure to hit us up on social. You can follow
us at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram and from there
you'll find everything you need to know to follow us
on Twitter and TikTok and prior members. You can listen
about your happy hour ad free on Amazon Music to
some of the Amazon Music app today, or you can
listen ad free with Wondering Plus in Apple Podcasts. But
before you go, tell us all about yourself by completing
(46:00):
a short survey at wondaree dot com slash survey. Thank
you everyone, and see you next week. Cheers
Hosts And Creators
Joe Amabile
Susan Noles
Serena Pitt
Kathy Swarts
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