June 11, 2024 • 52 mins
Jason Timpf is joined by The Athletic's Sam Vecenie to discuss what changes Luka Doncic, Kyrie Irving, and the Dallas Mavericks must attempt in order to find new life in their NBA Finals matchup with the Boston Celtics. How can the Mavs offense find its groove against Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, and the staunch Boston defense? Is this series already over heading back to Dallas for Game 3? Later, Jason and Sam react to UConn coach Dan Hurley turning down the head coaching job with LeBron James, Anthony Davis, and the Los Angeles Lakers.
3:00 - What defensive changes should Dallas make?
7:30 - Dallas should defend for contain and not for pressure
13:30 - Best strategy for containing Boston’s offense
18:00 - #1 factor disrupting Dallas is Tatum on the center
28:00 - Dallas needs to add more complications in screens and the pick n roll
37:00 - Boston is MORE engaged on the road
39:30- Sweep more likely than 2-2
41:30 - What should you want in a title contender for 2025
44:30 - Both Denver and Minnesota would have been tougher for Boston
52:00 - Dan Hurley turns down Laker job to stay at UConn
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
All right, welcome to here tonight. You're at the volume.
Happy Tuesday, everybody. Oh, all of you guys are having
a great week. We're actually recording this on Monday. We're
airing it on Tuesday. I've got Sam Asine, one of
the basketball minds in the world that I respect the most,
someone who I learned a lot from, someone who's super
well connected, helps me learn a lot more about some
of the uh the way that the NBA works behind
the scenes as well. Also a good friend of mine.
(00:36):
I'm excited to dive into the NBA Finals with you. Sam.
We have to this point not a whole lot to
be optimistic about for Dallas, and I've spent a good
amount of time over the course of the last couple
of you know, four days or so, explaining all the
reasons why Boston is giving Dallas problems. But I kind
(00:58):
of want to focus today more solutions based. So let's start.
Let's start with Boston on defense. I think the primary
issue at this point is they're just really struggling to
contain the basketball. But I also don't view it as
a problem that's going away. I think they just have
too many entry points between Gafford and Luca, and even
(01:21):
like Kaliba was struggling a little bit with some guys
on the perimeter, Kyrie has been gambling in the post
and giving up straight line drives as well. So I
don't necessarily see a universe where Dallas suddenly just puts
the clamps on Boston on the perimeter. So if you
were coaching Dallas, what would you do on the defensive
end to try to gain control of the situation with Boston.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
So, yeah, this is the side of the court where
the solutions are really hard. I think I think I
can come up with some solutions on offense where I'm like, okay,
I think these are okay. The real problem for Dallas
on defense is that Boston has been very intentional with
its spacing, right. They are making sure that Derek Lively
(02:04):
and Daniel Gafford are above the break basically at all times,
or if Chris Stops is in, they might have them
like deep in the corner, and they're just making it
so that those guys can't contest at the basket, Like
Derek Lively has played what probably thirty five forty minutes
in the series and as zero blocks because there's just
he's not around the basket in those circumstances. So the
(02:27):
idea here is to try and find a way to
get their bigs around the basket a little bit more
and bet on like shooting variants in my opinion, like
I would want to try and bet on you know
last night, right, I think it was Christops, sam Hauser,
Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown combined went two for twenty from
the three point line. That's the kind of variance you
(02:49):
need for it to be a you know, what was it?
It was a six point game with like a minute
left something like that.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, Boston only had one.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, Like I think it was relatively okay, But it
was okay, not in terms of process. It was in
terms of shooting variants, I thought, because Sam Houser missed
like four wide open threes and Christops missed a couple
of open threes and Tata missed an open three. Like
when Dallas fans like bring up the fact that you know, oh,
we also shot twenty three percent from three, I'm just like, well, guys,
(03:23):
they're leaving Josh Green and Derek Jones open for a reason.
You aren't leaving Sam Hauser and Jason Tatum and Jaylen
Brown open for a reason, So I think the shooting
variants gods are much more likely to be favorable to Boston.
Even at this point, it feels like Boston has only
shot well from three and like one quarter maybe like
(03:43):
a quarter and a half of this series, and it
was the first quarter and a half, So I would
look at going toward more of like a matchup zone
based kind of scheme. They ran a possession of a
kind of similar matchup be zone situation, I want to say,
(04:06):
was at like the nine to thirty mark of the
first quarter against Boston, and I kind of liked the
way it looked because they would like essentially pre switch
any sort of screening action, keeping gaffered around the basket
a little bit more often. That would kind of be
my idea, go toward more of like a Zony matchup
(04:26):
based zone. And you might think zoning Boston is a
terrible idea. I don't disagree. I just don't know that
they have better options either.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, that's kind of the way I look at it too,
in the sense that at the like what you're doing
right now is not working, and yeah, you know, zone
at the very least service to disrupt rhythm, even if
you just kind of alternated zone and away from zone
at kind of random sequences. There's a couple of things
that they're doing that I really don't understand. Like one
thing is I think they're applying their ball pressure a
(04:58):
little too far out, which is a it was, which
is trump a problem when you're struggling to contain the
basketball in the sense that like, like there was a
play where Drew Holliday's bringing the ball up the floor
on the left side and PJ. Washington's like kicking him
up like full court and Drew ends up making like
kind of like a spin move towards the sideline, and
he's a little out of control. But when you're that
(05:19):
far away from the basket, you're not immediately ending up
in bodies. You have an opportunity to regain control and
kind of get your feet straight as you're kind of
going downhill and making a play. So like part of
it is I kind of would lean more on going
more passive in the sense that not just not just
in ball pressure, but also in isolation situations, giving ground
(05:41):
baiting pull up jump shots rather than trying to pressure
the basketball. So much. I like what you talked about
with the pre switching too. It's it's comical to me
how easily they're allowing, you know, Gafford to end up
on Tatum twenty five feet from the basket or Luca
to end up that far away. You called it a
matchup zone, and that's a great way to kind of
(06:02):
look at it, in the sense that if you have
guys out above the break who are essentially there to guard,
and if Gafford's man runs up to go set a
screen or something like that, if you just let those
guys solve that problem and just kind of rejigger the
matchups behind them, you can figure out a way to
kind of keep your situation more favorable. But in general,
(06:22):
I think focusing more on contained rather than pressure in
the sense that it's almost like a more passive version
of defense. Because one of the things is like, we're
so accustomed to Boston losing their head and playing a
really silly brand of basketball, and they just haven't done
that in this series. There was a brief stretch spanning
(06:43):
the end of the second quarter in early third in
Game one where they went like five minutes of game
clock where they didn't get a single touch in the
paint where you're like, what are you guys doing? But
aside from that, they've actually played like a grown up
basketball team. I got a credit Tatum and Brown. I
think they've just done a really nice job of just
yea understanding the assignment. I think Joe Mizzoula talks about
like the different phases of the drive, like don't try
(07:06):
to hit a home run on the first drive. To me,
that's like advantage creation versus advantage extending. Like your job
is not to get an assist on the first drive.
You just need to compromise the defense. And they've done
a really good job of that. And so if you
can get into a situation where you have more favorable
matchups on Tatum and Brown and you focus more on contain,
I think that serves to better bait Boston into their
(07:29):
worst tendencies. But no matter what, they've got to do
something I don't understand as a scenario where you just
continue to let Luca kind of sit on an island.
I don't think this is Harden and PG. Remember how
like Harden and Paul George, like Luca kind of sort
of started to contain them a little bit in some moments.
I don't think he's going to be able to do
that about against Brown and Tatum.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
To you, well, he's a good matchup for Harden because
Harden can't really blow by like he can just body
up against Harden. Paul George is like a little bit
more willing to settle from three than what Jason's. Them
and Jalen Brown are Jalen and Jason. They're going to
try and get downhill and get to the rim at
the end of the day. And a big piece of
that is I think that Boston's again, like I brought
up spacing earlier, it can't go unnoticed here, right, the
(08:15):
fact that they have five guys on the court at
all times who can shoot, and not just shoot, but
are probably like forty percent three point shooters if you
leave them open, outside of maybe Drew Holiday, but Drew
Holiday hit forty percent of his catch and shoot threes
this year. I think that it makes it a lot
harder to kind of do what you're suggesting. I'm not
(08:37):
saying that you're wrong. I think you are right that
they need to play more conservatively, but it makes it
harder because the driving lanes are just wider. Right, they're
wider against Boston than they are against even like Oklahoma
City or Cleat or the Clippers. Right, it just makes
it way more difficult, I think to contain those drives,
Like Derek Jones Junior is like pressuring Jalen Brown at
(08:59):
the three point line even, which is kind of what
you have to do. And the lane to Jalen Brown's
right is just so wide and his first step is
so good that it almost doesn't matter. Right, Like, I
agree with you, like some of the like silly bs
stuff that you know PJ. Washington is doing, right, Like
(09:19):
the fact that he like keeps same side helping and
doubling and like digging into guy's handles on these drives
is just driving me crazy. Like he had he had
the one in Game two where it was like a
bounce pass out to Derek White and Derek White just
like caught and like immediately gathered into no pointer, no
dipped it. It was just like, well, come on, like
what are we doing here? Also, they need to stop
(09:43):
with like the scrambled double team stuff that they've done,
you know, sparingly in game one. In Game two, you know,
I think they did a decent amount when they panicked
in Game one, and then there's another possession in Game two,
I believe where PJ. Washington did like a post to
post double on I think it was Tatum who got
(10:03):
a mismall.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
They've been doubling Tatum in the post a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I hate it. You can't do it. He's too good
of a passer. Boston is too good at keeping the
advantage by rolling that ball around the perimeter. I truly
think that you need to make Tatum just like a
fade away post scorer at the end of the day
in those circumstances, kind of like you're saying.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, the when you play solid positional defense against Tatum,
where like you just keep your body in front, even
though he will have his possessions in the game where
he just goes right through you like a superstar and
dunks it, he'll settle for you know, two or three
right shoulder fades and left shoulder fades as well. And
like they're doing this too, where it's like it'll be
like Kyrie catches in the post against Tatum and he'll
(10:44):
just immediately overplay the high side and then they'll zone
up on the backside and then Tatum will just make
an easy bounce pass out of it, like they're the
over aggression is crazy, the strong side corner help from PJ. Washington.
In general, they were better in game two than they
were in Game one, but in general, through two games,
I think they overhelped, which is part of it. I
feel like is reprogramming yourself because Minnesota was the series
(11:05):
where you wanted to overhelp, like that was how they
beat you. And in so many ways, to me, this
comes down to matchups, like matchups have determined so much
of the championship picture this year because Denver was ill
equipped to deal with what Minnesota brought defensively, Minnesota was
ill equipped to deal with what Dallas brought defensively, and
(11:26):
Dallas is now ill equipped for Boston on both ends
of the floor. And like again, the I like to
bring it back to something you've said at the beginning, too,
if do what Boston's doing, like we're about to move
to Boston on offense or defense. And I thought Joe
Miszula's game plan has been literally brilliant, And I can't
say enough how much I've I've appreciated just not just
(11:49):
the not just the game plan itself, but the execution
of it through the first two games. But everything with
Joe Mizula is about tilting Dallas's offense towards above the
breakthree for guys like Derek Jones, Junior, PJ. Washington maxically,
but Josh Green, you know, Dante X, some of these
kinds of guys. And to your point, like you gotta
lean into that with Boston too, in the sense that
(12:12):
you overplay the corners, and if Porzingis is gonna take
a bunch of above the break threes, or Horford is
gonna take a bunch of above the break threes, or
even Jaylen Brown, you kind of have to live with
it to a certain extent. With a contest, obviously, you
want to offer that contest because that's the other thing too,
Like Boston's getting out on those guys, they're just they're
they're offering a contest after the fact, and so like
(12:33):
I think you have to kind of choose the lesser
of two evils, and taking away the rim and taking
away the corner I think is the best pathway to
them for them to try to play Boston towards their
lowest shot quality. And then you pointed this out, but
like Porzingis. I think he looked a little shaky in
game two. Uh, Drew Holliday went hit a couple of threes,
(12:55):
But if he's above the break instead of in the corner,
I think you like those results a little bit better.
So I think like trying to be smart about where
you help from would go a long way. But to
your point, like, this is the end of the floor
that I think Dallas has the fewest answers. Yeah, And
honestly I don't. I don't see a universe where they
like just strangle this Boston offense. And the worst part
(13:17):
about it is this was the game you had to win.
Boston got zero points seventy five points per jump shot
in game two. That's the one you have to win.
Dallas actually out shot Boston on jump shots in game two.
You had to get that one, and you didn't get it. Yeah,
moving over to the other side of the floor, go ahead,
did you?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I was going to say, like maybe this will be
the way to transition from that's out of the court
to this side of the court. A big problem for
me has been just Derek White has been like or
not Derek White. Derek Lively has been like completely ineffectual
in this series, right, I am wondering if they should
use some of those minutes that you're giving to Derek
(13:57):
Lively and go small with like PJ. Washington at the
five and just see what happens. I don't think it
could be worse because the end of the day, like
you're not getting the rim protection anyway from Lively because
they're just pulling them away from the basket. Now, Like,
if they're gonna play zone and adjust that way, great,
Like I'm I'm interested in seeing that playing more of
(14:18):
a matchup zone, Like we talked about finding ways to
get their rim protectors at the rim. If you're gonna
do that, great. Another option here could just be to
tried out gun Boston at the end of the day
and say, hey, we're not getting the rim protection anyway,
let's try and go like full you know, being able
to contain them on the perimeter on defense, just trying
(14:39):
to stop them from getting to the rim. Derek Lively
is not going to be better at that than our
perimeter defenders are, and just try and go five out
and go like PJ. Washington at the five. You probably
have to play Derek Jones still because Derek Jones is
such a critical defender against Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum.
But then you play, you know, honestly, like I might
dust off Tim Hardaway June Year next to Kyrie and
(15:01):
Luca and just try and outgun them and outshoot them
and hope that Tim Hardaway catches fire while you're containing
them on the perimeter a little bit, Tim makes it
harder to contain them. But like you're just not getting
anything from that center position anyway. And that's why I
think it might be worth like transitioning talking about this
now when we transition from defense to offense, if you're
(15:21):
able to space them out, I think that that would
cause Boston's defense, particularly when Christops is on the court,
a little bit more stress than what we've seen so far.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
No, I think this is a really good take, And
I actually was talking about this with my buddy Combo
this morning. I went on his podcast and he actually
presented this idea. And I find it fascinating in two ways.
Because to your point, yeah, you're not getting any rim
protection from Livelier Gafford because of the way they're setting
up the floor. In addition to that, Boston's doing a
pretty solid job of making decisions when they get to
(15:53):
the rim. Their speed that and it doesn't matter how
good Derek Jones is at containing the basketball if he's
never on the ball, because they're switching and ending up
with Luca and just attacking through Luca, and so rotational
speed becomes more valuable. So, for instance, like a guy
like Tim Hardaway Junior, if you put him on the ball,
his value is pretty low. But like if you're asking
(16:16):
him to sprint around in rotation, as long as he's
playing hard and understands where he's supposed to be next,
he might be able to do that job at least
to a certain extent. Then that pushes us to the
other end of the floor because you're right, like to me,
the number one factor that is disrupting Dallas's offense is
Tatum on the center because essentially what's happening is it's
(16:38):
not just that because Horford is switching onto Luca beautifully.
In general, Jalen Brown is doing a great job on
the ball. It's a team effort. I'm not trying to
underestimate that. But the entire geometry, the way that Denver
or Dallas wants to attack in the half court with
their pick and roll game is thrown off by the
fact that Lively and Gafford are in the dunker spot
rather than setting screens and rolling towards a vacant painted area.
(17:02):
And so to me, like to your point, they need
to try to mess with the spacing the same way
that Boston has been And what that means is you
need to make sure that you have above the break
three point shooters above the break. So who are the
guys for Dallas that I actually like shooting above the
break threes? It's Kyrie, It's Luca, It's Tim Hardaway Junior.
(17:24):
And if there was one of the role guys that
I feel most comfortable up there, it's probably Dante Exhum
believe it or not. He actually hit one in Game two,
but he's just got a really good set shot where
if he's got all day, I actually like him up there.
But he's not a great option. But the point is,
if you can find a way to set up the
floor to where you have Derek Jones and PJ. Washington
(17:45):
in the corners and you don't have an occupied dunker
spot and you're running action up top with Tim Hardaway
Junior and Luca just like ghost screens and stuff, and
Luca's compromising the defense and working with a vacant paint.
I think that that's serves to at least open things
up for you on the offensive end of the floor.
But the one problem I would have there is, to
(18:07):
this point in this series, Dallas has held up pretty
well in the glass. As a matter of fact, it's
fifty to fifty in rebound percentage through the two games.
I do worry about just the sheer athleticism advantage for
Boston tilting in that sense and them starting to do
a bunch of damage on the offensive glass. Do you
think that that would be an issue.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I don't know that it would be necessarily. I think
it could be for sure, But like with how much
they're spacing their bigs away from the rim, it would
be an awful big ass for you to say, Christops,
we need you to crush the offensive glass and then
get all the way back on defense against Kyrie, who
(18:45):
does tend to push the pace. Like if it was
just Luca on the court, I think that would be
a bit more of a concern. But when Kyrie is
out there, and Kyrie is willing to go a little
bit more often whereas Luke is going to slow it
up a little bit more. I don't think they would
crush them necessarily, given how intentional they're being about their
spacing with their bigs away from the rim right now,
(19:05):
particularly now. The way that I felt Dallas got the
advantage on Minnesota in that series was utilizing more double
screen actions double drags, particularly where you'd have Mike Conley
be the guy having to guard that first ball screen
defender or be the first ball screen defender, right, because
(19:28):
typically the way teams that the wait teams navigate those
is they will switch the first one and then they
will play drop in the second one, right, Especially Minnesota
with Ridy Gobert, right, they want to be able to
play switch and then drop. That ended up resulting in
a lot of mismatches where Mike Conley was on Luka
Doncic or Mike Conley was on Kyrie Irving coming off
(19:51):
and that was able to create an advantage, or when
Minnesota started to adjust, it created a lot of communication errors. Right,
been surprised about the level to which Dallas has not
really run as many double drags double screen actions in
this series.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
To this point.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I would like to see more of them. I think, now,
who were you trying to attack? This kind of solves
the problem that you were saying. I actually think that
Jason Tatum has been incredible off the ball in this series,
A sneaky think. He's kind of been the one guy
that you can get on the ball a little bit
more often than what people think. I might try and
(20:35):
get him switched on to Luca a little bit more often,
or switched particularly onto Kyrie a little bit more often
to get him going and then try and make that
work that way where like you have Christops in a drop,
but again to do this, man, it gets hard though,
because like then you have Christops and drop and he's
probably gonna out high point Daniel Gafford, but they caught
(20:56):
Rudy in these circumstances, and maybe this is it, Like
maybe you just go if you're still gonna play big,
you go with like a double drag at the top,
you try and get Luca on. You're trying to get
Jason Tatum on Luca, and then you see how it goes.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
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(23:02):
Because Luca is hunting Tatum a lot in the first
half of game two, and it's just the simple thing
that Luca does to everybody wants to get that little
bit of an angle on you. It's just over because
he's so damn big. The what I worry about with
like the double screen action is especially when Horford's out there,
I think Boston is just totally fine with Horford on Luca.
(23:24):
Now the one thing that I've struggled to understand, as
it pertains to in the Porzingis lineups, Why in the
world have they not tried to go ahead?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Well, the Porzingis lineups are the ones that are killing
them though, like that, if you take away those lineups,
like it's basically an even series so far.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
M Well, and so the specifically with Porzingis, And I've
been so impressed by Porzingis defensively in the series, even
on switches. I think he's done a pretty good job.
Why because when you actually see Boston end up with
poor Zingus, whether it's a transition cross match or something,
or Porzingis is on Lively or Gafford, you can actually
(24:05):
see Dallas's offense click back into shape. They're like the
big dunk that Derek Lively had in the second half
over Derek White. It was a miss pushing transition cross match.
Tatum ended up on Derek Jones in the right corner
or left corner. They ran the ball screen, just easy
pocket pass to Lively. Lively dunks all over Derek White.
(24:28):
Why hasn't and I called for this after game one
and maybe there has to be something I'm missing. Why
hasn't Dallas tried a ram screen to just get Tatum
to concede the switch, cause and basically what I'm what
I'm looking at there is like just adding that if
you're gonna if you're gonna let Boston guards your pick
(24:51):
and roll three on three, meaning like you're gonna let
them have Tatum parked underneath the basket while you have
Derek Jones either trying to roll into all that traff
or pop above the break, why not instead of having
Gafford or Lively just stand there because they're not doing
damage on the offensive glass. Neither team is really doing
that much damage on the offensive glass, how do you
keep him engaged? And to me, like what I would
(25:14):
like to see And part of this is like they
got to get the ball up the floor quicker, Like
they've got to get up into their offense quicker. But
once they get up the floor, what I'd love to
see is have PJ or Derek Jones Junior just run
like sprint down and screen Tatum hard, and then as
the screen is to have Lively sprint up into the action,
(25:35):
I think they'll concede the switch and let Porzingis run
up into the ball screen. From there, I would literally
turn around and turn it into stack pick and roll,
And as Luca comes off the ball screen and Lively's rolling,
I turn around in backscreen porzingis again and just kind
of adds some confusion because to me, this is ending
up in way too many ISOs, Like in general, there's
(25:57):
very few roll man opportunities, a very few spot up oppertunities.
I pulled this stat this morning. Through two games, sixty
eight spot up opportunities for Boston, twenty eight for Dallas
according to Synergy. That's just insane. And part of the
reason is is like, because of the fact that Boston
has Tatum parked under the basket, they haven't needed to
(26:17):
engage any of the corner defenders in to guard the action,
so those guys aren't getting open. And so like I
through two games, I haven't seen a single ram screen.
Am I like just screaming at the ether here? Or
do you think that that Boston would just switch all
those things easily and shut it off? Like, what do
you think is the reason why we haven't seen to
your point, the double drag I think falls into this
(26:37):
list too. Haven't we seen more complications in pick and roll?
To try to make this work.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, and like you brought up like stack spain ball
screens too, Like that was literally going to be my
next point. It's like, why haven't we seen too many
of those? Like it's just that they're making it so easy.
The thing that I feel like they're doing most often
when Christops is out there is they're just running like
empty ball screens to try and just like make him
guard in like a big o't of space basically. And
that's where I'm glad that you brought up that you
(27:03):
think he's done a pretty good job. They're just willing
to concede. Like a lot of times It'steric White who
ends up on Christops, or it's one of the other
wings or whatever, and they're just like willing to concede
that three to those guys, and that ends up being
a little bit too easy for them. So I completely
agree with you. It requires much more screening and movement.
I thought that what they ran early in the second
(27:23):
quarter actually is kind of similar to what you're saying.
It was a little bit different in terms of functionality,
but they ran a set three straight times to start
the second quarter where they essentially set a similar it's
not a ram screen. It's just like a middle screen
for Luca to come up and get the ball at
(27:43):
the elbow essentially, And the first time he got switched
on to Peyton Pritchard and ended up shooting like a
mid range jumper over him, and it was an easy
shot and he drilled it. The second one they ran
a counter off of it where they had the screener
come down screen for Luca, who then veered off to
the right, and then Dante exum sprinted down and set
(28:04):
like a second screen for Luca to give him a
wide open corner.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Three.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I agree with you that I think engaging those defenders
right around the basket with screening actions is a really,
really good way to actually be able to try and
get the matchups in the mismatches that you're kind of
hoping for in those circumstances, be it out of ram
screens or screen middle ball screens just to get Luca
the ball at the elbow, or whatever you want to do.
(28:30):
But completely one hundred percent agree with you, and I
think that running like a stack or spain off of
that is even more lethal, and I'm surprised that they
haven't gone to it more it really is just more
I am surprised that they have not run more like
combo screen actions basically to be able to try and
get their guys free and to be able to force
(28:51):
more communication within the Boston defense.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
I think they need to do it off ball too, Like,
if Gafford and Lively are not catching lobs out of
the dunkers and they're not getting offensive rebounds out of
the dunker spot, you need to have them running off
ball screening actions like they just at this point, what
Boston has done is they've taken all of the strengths
of your role players and they've just kind of reconfigured
(29:16):
where they are on the floor to make it so
that their weaknesses. PJ. Washington great corner three point shooter,
he's not getting corner three point looks, you know. Derrek
Jones Jr. Great a good corner three point shooter, a
good slasher of closeouts, but he's like he's operating as
a pick and roll roll man now, which is like
a completely different kind of job for him. Lively and
Gafford are these rim runners who are not running. They're
(29:37):
stuck in the mud down in the dunker spot, and
so in general, I just want to see so much
more off ball screening action. And the main reason why
is like, I do not think Dallas can beat Boston
by isoating them to death. I don't think this is
I don't think this is you know, the twenty sixteen
calves where you're gonna get like, you know, forty a
(29:58):
piece out of them the rest. So I think the
deep defensive personnel for Boston is too good. Those those
Cavs teams had matchups that they could attack. This is
not that type of series. I think they've got to
try to find a way to free some things up there.
And again, like to me, it's it's just got to
be more of that kind of screening action. I did
like that Lucas seemed to target the smaller guards more
(30:20):
in game two. They didn't that they scored a lot
more in the post in game two than they did
in game one. I thought Luca ran out of gas
there towards the end as he missed those couple over
over Pritchard that he normally makes. But like the I
don't think attacking Horford is an option. Horford is, you know,
Horford is probably in my lifetime, the best that I've
(30:41):
seen of like as a positional just like read where
you're going, beat you to the spot, take the contact,
and make you shoot over the top of any center
I've seen. I think he's one of the best at that.
I think that's why he did such a good job
on him Bead over the years. I think that's why,
like the the big power players, he just guards so
well and like every time Luca gets him on a switch,
(31:02):
I just don't think that's an option. And so one
of the things I liked about that sequence that you
were talking about there in the start of the second
quarter is kind of like targeting, Like instead of having
Luca just hunt in like ball screen switch, then work
off the dribble, dribble twenty five times, get him catches
where he already is in a good, strong position where
it's the jobs a little bit easier. But no matter what,
(31:23):
they're going to have to do more in terms of
those screening actions to try to free things up. What
do you think what's your just overall opinion of this
series at this point with Boston up two ozho, how
do you see things changing slash not changing as we
go to Dallas.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
I don't see much changing because last night was like
you kind of said the night that Dallas had to
get it. And the fact that those four guys I
mentioned earlier, Howser, Porzingis, Tatum, and Brown went two for
twenty from three, that just feels deeply troubling to me
if I'm a fan, Like the fact that this game
(32:02):
probably should have been a twenty point loss in my opinion, Like,
even while Dallas was up four, I was texting with
my podcast partner Bryce, and we were just sitting there, going,
this is gonna be ten before halftime, Like they're gonna
start shooting at some point, they're gonna start making these shots,
and they never did, and they never really did throughout
the course of the entire game outside of Drew Holiday
I think made two, when Derek White made maybe four
(32:24):
of ten if I remember correctly. But like they shoot
twenty six percent from three, They're not gonna shoot twenty
six percent from three again in all likelihood, Like, man,
I don't I don't know that we've come up with
good enough solutions here to change the tenor of this series. Unfortunately,
it's that's what.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
We're trying, though.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
You were trying, like I want, I want like there
to be excitement. I would love for Dallas to come
back and like luc could go out and dropped like
a fifty point triple double. But I don't know, man,
what do you think?
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Well? And then Boston is also just like a but
there I do. I do think they're a better road
team than they are home team, in large part because
I think that there's something about the challenge on the
road that keeps them more engaged. I mean, I think
they're a victim of their own talent in so many cases.
I mean, both of their home losses in this playoff
run were just absolute dud defensive efforts, Like, I don't
(33:19):
think we're going to see that sort of thing. Let's
just put it this way. What's more likely this series
comes back to Boston to two or it's a sweep.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I think a sweep is more likely. The thing that
I will ask you though, Christops didn't look super hot
at the end of Game two, right, Like, he wasn't
moving as fluidly. This is what we've seen. If he is,
you know, unable to play twenty minutes in game three,
or you know, if he god forbid, he sits like
(33:52):
nobody's rooting for that. But whatever, I actually do think
that changes the series substantially in terms of the matchup
to the Boston will be able or Dallas will be
able to get on the defensive side of the court
whenever Al Horford is out. And again, the Poorzingis minutes
are the ones that are killing Dallas right now, because
(34:14):
those are the minutes where Boston is like five out,
extremely well spaced, you can't help off anybody like from anywhere.
If Porzingis was to miss time, I do think that
genuinely changes the entire schematics of what we're talking about here,
and like really would change the series drastically.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Well, to put it simply, if Cornette was out there,
it would just be a disaster. If I was Boston,
I'd probably even look to go small if that were
I would, just because, you know, because Dallas hasn't been
able to capitalize in seize mismatches in this series. But yeah,
that's I mean, that's the one wrinkle is the is
the Porzingis injury piece of it. And even then even
then I think I'd probably lean Boston. But yeah, that's
(34:57):
the that's the one wrinkle I look at. I agree
with you, I think it's far more likely this is
a sweep than to two. Coming back to Boston. The
problem is is, like, the game plan is the game plan. Like,
I don't think Joe Miszula is gonna overreact if Derek
Jones and PJ. Washington hit seven above the break threes
(35:18):
in game three. The game plan is the game plan.
The quality opportunities aren't gonna be there.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
You know what's amazing about that this was exactly what
Oklahoma City wanted to do. This is exactly what their
strategy was. We're gonna let Eric Jones and PJ. Washington
beat us. And I think that Boston is executing it better,
particularly in terms of the corners, right. They're denying them the.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah I remember more corner corner threes, Yeah, which is
the key.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
And I actually think that's a really really important point
that you made earlier, that they're denying them the spots
that they want to shoot threes. But man, it is
a little bit funny that like everyone like roasted Oklahoma
City a little bit for just being like, we're gonna
leave PJ. Washington open and now here, Boston is basically
executing the strategy of leaving PJ. Washington open, And it's working.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Dude. I felt so confident that Oklahoma City was going
to lose. I picked against him in that series, but
I felt very confident they were going to lose in
the first two rounds, and they did. But I left
that playoff run being so much higher on Oklahoma City
for next year. Like they're they're nasty, they're mean, their
physical lou dort is just that is like such a weapon.
(36:30):
I love that Oklahoma City team. All right, So we
have two more quick things I want to hip four
get out here. One. You had texted me about a
question you wanted to ask I do surrounding this series.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Okay, so I'm pulling it up right now. I want
to get it like that on it. Do you have
an overarching big takeaway from this playoff run in terms
of if you were building a team for next year's
title picture, is there something you would be looking at
from an overall Skars perspective that you see as a
(37:02):
potential you know, point of attack or like something that
is exceptionally valuable or a marginal advantage beyond just like
having superstars, right, Because if anything, I think what you know,
this series has shown us and this playoffs has shown
us is it doesn't take one of the top three
guys in the league to win a title right now
(37:23):
with how the NBA is, So, is there a schematic
marginal advantage or like a roster construction marginal advantage that
you're looking at you're taking away from the playoffs to
take forward into the future.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Okay, So I've been thinking a lot about this. First
of all, that the last bit there. I do generally
think you need a top three player. I think Jokic was,
I think Steph Was, I think Giannis Was, I think
Lebron Was, I think Kawhi Was. I think I think this.
I think this is five thirty million dollar players on
one team. I think that's what Boston is. So I
I do. But from the schematic angle, I I do
(37:59):
think that five out is a more resilient offense than
four out in the sense that like just one simple
matchup tweak just let's put our centers on bad above
the break three point shooters and let's put Tatum on
the center has like completely crumbled Dallas's offense in so
many different ways, Whereas like when you run a five
(38:22):
out attack, there are just so many different angles that
you can work in. So many different ways you can
reconfigure spots on the floor to make things work, whereas
like if you're a spread, pick and roll four out
one end team, it's just as difficult. And so I
do think from a I do think from a stylistic standpoint,
(38:42):
I think teams have to have a five out look,
and I wouldn't be surprised if that's something that we
I think we'll see Luca in a five out offense
before too long here, in the next few years, I
think that there will be a team that tries to
put him in that type of situation. That said, though,
the reason why I've struggled so much with this question
because in transparency, Sam did text me this question so
I could think about it. Denver is so different from
(39:07):
this Boston team in so many different ways. Then even
just the difference between like like play finishers versus like
do it all guys like to me, KCP and Michael
Porter Junior and Aaron Gordon are play finishers. They can
operate in a five out offense. But like we saw
in the Minnesota series, how how much Denver struggled as
(39:27):
soon as they solved the Jamal and jokis like it
just it just kind of crumbled from there, right, Like
I I think that, I think that in general, you've
got to build a roster base or you've got to
build a game plan based on what your roster is.
So for instance, like to Missoula's credit, he really has
kind of maximized this group offensively in so many different
(39:49):
ways by getting them to buy into drive and kick.
But at the end of the day, if I had
to pick one thing, it'd be versatility of play style
on both ends of the floor. Yeah, I think that inevitably,
Like the Eastern Conference was really easy this year because
there were five good teams and four of them ended
up on one side of the bracket and they all
beat the heck out of each other and got hurt.
(40:10):
And then Boston had the other three bad teams and
they and they got out of it. But I do
think the East is going to be tougher in the future.
I think Orlando is gonna be tougher. I think teams
are going to enter into that picture. So in general,
we saw this in the West. We just talked about
at the beginning of the show. The matchup, like the
matchup resiliency as you're working through the Conference. I think
(40:30):
you've got to be able to beat different types of
teams along the way, and so I do think you
have to be like I think you have to be
able to defend in a deep drop and in a
high drop. I think you got to have his own look.
I think you got to be able to have some
guys that can hold up on switches. I think on
the offensive end of the floor, I think you have
to be able to play out of the post. I
think you have to be able to play out of
pick and roll. I think you have to be able
to match up hunt in isolation. I think there's a
(40:52):
certain like variety that you need to have, because I
don't think this Dallas team was the best basketball team
in the Western Conference. Personally. Yeah, I think Denver was,
But I think Denver caught a really difficult matchup and
then that team had a really bad time with Dallas.
And I would argue that both Minnesota and Denver would
(41:13):
have fared better against Boston than Dallas did. Would you
agree there?
Speaker 1 (41:17):
So yes, I do. But like what you're saying, though,
is actually why I was higher on Dallas than most
people were. You know, when we did our like championship
tier grades. At the deadline, I said I'd bought Dallas
in the top five. It's exactly that. It's because I
thought that they had different ways to stop different things,
right and now against Boston, and Boston is just like
(41:39):
this whole different beast that they just didn't have the
answer to this test. But I thought Dallas had more
answers to the test than most other teams. It's just
like in Denver's case, right, Like Denver probably I think
Denver probably beats Dallas for what it's worth, But like
I think that I do too, answer to the test
(42:01):
is like just better than everybody else, right, Like on
some level, it's just that Minnesota is built to stop
that single thing, right, which is great. The two things
that stand out to me, you're spacing on offense and
ground coverage on defense. Having that five out spacing look,
which you kind of emphasize. I don't really need to
go into that, you I think broke down perfectly. Ground
(42:23):
coverage on defense is what Minnesota had. I think it's
what Boston has. I think it's what Dallas has as well,
with those lively lineups being able to cut off the
court and cut off like large swaths of the court
right now is like, by far the most important thing
that you can do, even when their guys are getting
beaten off the bounce in this series, having that ground coverage,
being able to rotate around is at least giving them
(42:45):
a chance on some level. But that's kind of where
I'm at. Ground coverage on defense, long athletes, you know,
shooting on offense, and a lot of the times it's
hard to find those two things in a single player package,
which is what makes things so difficult.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
To your point, if Derek Jones and PJ. Washington were
good above the break three point shooters, this is a
totally different series. Like, like they the problem that I
can't tell you how often I'm seeing on the on
these when I'm doing my film sessions, because Luca's kind
of got his defender in jail and he's working downhill.
(43:22):
The entire above the break line is either empty, yeah,
or Derek Jones is up there, yeah, or Josh Green
is up there. But so like, and there's the thing
they're not. They're making themselves easy to guard because they
they're not occupying that side of the floor with the threat.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
But here's the piece of that that makes it really hard.
And this is why building a team is so exceptionally difficult. Right,
if Derek Jones is a good above the break three
point shooter, you couldn't have gotten him for the minimum.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Right, He's a twenty.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Million dollar player and he's gonna be like a twelve
million dollar player this year. So like that's what that's
what makes this really hard if you're a team builder, right,
if you're a GM like having this is what has
made Brad Stevens so good his job, right, Like he
has gone out and paid the price to be able
to go get the guys that make his scheme, the
(44:08):
scheme that Boston wants to build so functional.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Well and again, like anybody could have had those guys,
and Brad went out and got them, you know today
his credit Sam, before we get you out of here,
I'm just gonna see you up for a quick monologue.
What was your takeaway on the Dan Early News this morning?
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, So my takeaway is I was very impressed that
there were no leaks and that everybody did not know
the way this was going to go. Like you should
have seen my text messages. It was hysterical, Like everyone's
asking me, like what's he gonna do, like, what do
you think is gonna happen? And I would just be like,
(44:59):
I don't know. My answer was, I thought fifty five
forty five he stays at Connecticut. If you would have
asked me the night that the story broke, I would
have said, sixty forty goes to the Lakers. And I
thought that, like, the further along it went, the more
likely it was that he would say Yukon. But the
fact that it was that close in that like nobody knew,
like I talked to I don't want to put this
person on blast, like one of the premier college basketball
(45:21):
insiders last night there this morning, your time, and he goes, yeah,
I think I'd say fifty five to forty five, he goes,
So A was really impressed that like none of this
got out, because typically it gets out in some way
shape or for him. B I have no idea why
the Lakers only offered six seventy If you're going out
(45:43):
and trying to get Danny Hurley, that's just not a
good enough offer, point blank. With the way that like
the coaching market has inflated over the course of the
last five years, really over the course of the last
twelve months. At the end of the day, Steve Kurr
is making seventeen. I think Greg it's just making like
eighteen or so.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Bud and Oles is making ten a year.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I mean, come on, right, Like, if you really believe
in Danny Hurley, you have to go and make it
so that he's turning down. Like I'm not saying you
have to offer him like five years one hundred and
forty or whatever it is, but like you probably have
to offer him five years eighty. You probably have to
offer him sixteen a year. You have to give him
the money Williams offer at least, right. So that leads
me to my next question, which is how worried were
(46:28):
they that Danny Hurley was serious maybe and that they
were inflating their own coaching market potentially by having that
offer get out there saying you were willing to pay
six seventy for a guy that you know has never
won an NBA game. So, you know, let's say it's
JJ Reddick. I don't know if it's going to be
JJ Reddick. You know, I'm yeah, I don't know if
(46:50):
it's gonna be JJ Redick.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
I'm hearing brago noise, Are you hearing that too.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
I have heard a lot of different things, to the
point where my impression has been this entire time that
there they were undergoing a process, that there was no
decision that was made, that there was no like yeah,
like I felt like they were undertaking a process. Was
the whole thing that there was never never certainty that
(47:18):
it was going to be Jj, never certainty that it
was going to be Barrego. Like they were really trying
to go down the road and explore everything that was
available to them, and they never made any choices. Now,
maybe that was it. Maybe they were trying to make
sure that their market was not so overinflated that, you know,
they have to pay James Barrego, you know, nine million
dollars a year now because you offer Danny Hurley eleven
(47:39):
point six or something. I don't know. I think if
you're chasing Danny Hurley, you just have to chase them
and say, like, screw it, we're going balls to the
wall here and we're trying to get the guy we want.
And to me, in my opinion, I know, it's twenty
million dollars more than the Connecticut offer, but six years
seventy million is not a good enough offer given the
current market of NBA coaches.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yeah, Colin had dropped to me last night on the
show that he had heard a much lower number than
the one hundred million dollar number that was getting thrown around. Yeah,
And that was where I started to get a little
bit worried, because Colin's really connected, obviously in the LA area,
and I felt the same way. My thing was, like,
especially like in the grand scheme of the television deal
that's coming around, in the grand scheme of what your
(48:23):
luxury tax bill is, what's fifteen million a year for
a coach that could be a culture setter? Like I
really struggled with that. I will say that it wouldn't
have been a perfect fit. I think that asking a
year twenty two Lebron to be held accountable by someone
like Danny Hurley would have presented some challenges. I'm sure that,
(48:44):
but I thought, especially like Dan's ability to create space
with non shooters on the floor, I thought that would
have been a wonderful fit with Vanderbilt and Anthony Davis.
I was so so optimistic about it, but at the
same time, like I just had this underlying ominous The
Lakers find a way to botch stuff like this typically
(49:04):
kind of thing, and that that that tempered any sort
of of over excitement on my part.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
You know, what I'll say on the Lebron front, though,
is like everybody around the league will tell you that,
like if Lebron like really respects the guy who's in
charge and like really believes in him, he has no
problem being coached hard, Like he's like totally fine with
like hey, like I mean, look like he might not
want Danny Hurley like get in his face and like
f bombing him, which might have happened at some point.
(49:33):
Like we just need to be realistic about that. But
like I think Lebron gets this rap as like a
coach killer right like throughout his career, and I think
as long as he respects the guy, and it seems
like he would have been going into this relationship with
like a real degree of respect for Danny Hurley, he's
fine from what I know, like being able to like
(49:54):
you know take that right like he'll he'll he'll respond
to that from what I know. So you know, whether
or not there's another coach out there on the market
that would be able to coax that out of him,
I don't know. Necessarily. But you know, I do think
that is a bit of a misconception about Lebron. Not
that you're saying that like he was, you know, gonna
be a problem, but I do think that there's a
(50:15):
little bit more to Lebron than than what the current
overarching philosophy is that I get in my Twitter mentions
every night.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Unfortunately, no, I totally agree. Well, the thing too, is like,
it's not David Blatt. He's not coming over from Europe.
There's something right, you know, there's something about like the
domestic dominance of Yukon that I think would resonate.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
One hundred percent. Like I had somebody ask me, like,
why is this different than David Blatt? David Blatt won
multiple euro League championships. I was like, you think twenty
eight year old Lebron was watching the EuroLeague like every night.
He's definitely watching Connecticut, watching the NCAA tournament and seeing
what that looks like. He's not watching euro League every night.
He's not staying up until two am in the morning
to watch like Osville versus Redstone. Are you know what
(51:00):
I mean? So, yeah, No, it's it's interesting. Look, I mean,
shout out Danny Hurley saying it Connecticutte, you know, stay
where you're happy. I'm a big, big proponent. I live
in Melbourne, Australia, because you know, be worried or happy
at the end of the day. That's it. So I
respect Danny Hurley's choice in that respect.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
I'm just sad because I thought he could have turned
that organization around. All right, that's all we have time
for today, Sam, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time
out of your busy schedule to come on. I need
to call you soon so that we can catch up,
and then we also need to take more time to
talk more this summer on the show. I'm sure we'll
find some time to do that. I'm hoping to see
you out at Summer League as well. Before we get
you out of here, can you shout out what you're
(51:41):
working on on your end?
Speaker 1 (51:43):
So NBA Draft Guide, I wrote far too many works
for the NBA Draft Guide. It's going to be over
one hundred and fifty thousand words on seventy five draft
prospects this year. That will be up next week at
some point over at the Athletic And then go to
the Game Theory podcast over on YouTube over on whatever
podcasting platform you use, and you'll be able to kind
of hang out with us every second night whenever we
(52:06):
go live.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
That's a perfect excuse to get you back on because
I don't pay any attention to the draft until after
the NBA Finals, so maybe we'll get you on at
that point. All right, guys, that is all we have
for today. As always, we sincerely I appreciate you guys
for supporting the show. I will be back to calling
Coward on Wednesday night after the final buzzer of Game three.
I will see you guys.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Thay the volume
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
All right, welcome to here tonight. You're at the volume.
Happy Tuesday, everybody. Oh, all of you guys are having
a great week. We're actually recording this on Monday. We're
airing it on Tuesday. I've got Sam Asine, one of
the basketball minds in the world that I respect the most,
someone who I learned a lot from, someone who's super
well connected, helps me learn a lot more about some
of the uh the way that the NBA works behind
the scenes as well. Also a good friend of mine.
(00:36):
I'm excited to dive into the NBA Finals with you. Sam.
We have to this point not a whole lot to
be optimistic about for Dallas, and I've spent a good
amount of time over the course of the last couple
of you know, four days or so, explaining all the
reasons why Boston is giving Dallas problems. But I kind
(00:58):
of want to focus today more solutions based. So let's start.
Let's start with Boston on defense. I think the primary
issue at this point is they're just really struggling to
contain the basketball. But I also don't view it as
a problem that's going away. I think they just have
too many entry points between Gafford and Luca, and even
(01:21):
like Kaliba was struggling a little bit with some guys
on the perimeter, Kyrie has been gambling in the post
and giving up straight line drives as well. So I
don't necessarily see a universe where Dallas suddenly just puts
the clamps on Boston on the perimeter. So if you
were coaching Dallas, what would you do on the defensive
end to try to gain control of the situation with Boston.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
So, yeah, this is the side of the court where
the solutions are really hard. I think I think I
can come up with some solutions on offense where I'm like, okay,
I think these are okay. The real problem for Dallas
on defense is that Boston has been very intentional with
its spacing, right. They are making sure that Derek Lively
(02:04):
and Daniel Gafford are above the break basically at all times,
or if Chris Stops is in, they might have them
like deep in the corner, and they're just making it
so that those guys can't contest at the basket, Like
Derek Lively has played what probably thirty five forty minutes
in the series and as zero blocks because there's just
he's not around the basket in those circumstances. So the
(02:27):
idea here is to try and find a way to
get their bigs around the basket a little bit more
and bet on like shooting variants in my opinion, like
I would want to try and bet on you know
last night, right, I think it was Christops, sam Hauser,
Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown combined went two for twenty from
the three point line. That's the kind of variance you
(02:49):
need for it to be a you know, what was it?
It was a six point game with like a minute
left something like that.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, Boston only had one.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, Like I think it was relatively okay, But it
was okay, not in terms of process. It was in
terms of shooting variants, I thought, because Sam Houser missed
like four wide open threes and Christops missed a couple
of open threes and Tata missed an open three. Like
when Dallas fans like bring up the fact that you know, oh,
we also shot twenty three percent from three, I'm just like, well, guys,
(03:23):
they're leaving Josh Green and Derek Jones open for a reason.
You aren't leaving Sam Hauser and Jason Tatum and Jaylen
Brown open for a reason, So I think the shooting
variants gods are much more likely to be favorable to Boston.
Even at this point, it feels like Boston has only
shot well from three and like one quarter maybe like
(03:43):
a quarter and a half of this series, and it
was the first quarter and a half, So I would
look at going toward more of like a matchup zone
based kind of scheme. They ran a possession of a
kind of similar matchup be zone situation, I want to say,
(04:06):
was at like the nine to thirty mark of the
first quarter against Boston, and I kind of liked the
way it looked because they would like essentially pre switch
any sort of screening action, keeping gaffered around the basket
a little bit more often. That would kind of be
my idea, go toward more of like a Zony matchup
(04:26):
based zone. And you might think zoning Boston is a
terrible idea. I don't disagree. I just don't know that
they have better options either.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, that's kind of the way I look at it too,
in the sense that at the like what you're doing
right now is not working, and yeah, you know, zone
at the very least service to disrupt rhythm, even if
you just kind of alternated zone and away from zone
at kind of random sequences. There's a couple of things
that they're doing that I really don't understand. Like one
thing is I think they're applying their ball pressure a
(04:58):
little too far out, which is a it was, which
is trump a problem when you're struggling to contain the
basketball in the sense that like, like there was a
play where Drew Holliday's bringing the ball up the floor
on the left side and PJ. Washington's like kicking him
up like full court and Drew ends up making like
kind of like a spin move towards the sideline, and
he's a little out of control. But when you're that
(05:19):
far away from the basket, you're not immediately ending up
in bodies. You have an opportunity to regain control and
kind of get your feet straight as you're kind of
going downhill and making a play. So like part of
it is I kind of would lean more on going
more passive in the sense that not just not just
in ball pressure, but also in isolation situations, giving ground
(05:41):
baiting pull up jump shots rather than trying to pressure
the basketball. So much. I like what you talked about
with the pre switching too. It's it's comical to me
how easily they're allowing, you know, Gafford to end up
on Tatum twenty five feet from the basket or Luca
to end up that far away. You called it a
matchup zone, and that's a great way to kind of
(06:02):
look at it, in the sense that if you have
guys out above the break who are essentially there to guard,
and if Gafford's man runs up to go set a
screen or something like that, if you just let those
guys solve that problem and just kind of rejigger the
matchups behind them, you can figure out a way to
kind of keep your situation more favorable. But in general,
(06:22):
I think focusing more on contained rather than pressure in
the sense that it's almost like a more passive version
of defense. Because one of the things is like, we're
so accustomed to Boston losing their head and playing a
really silly brand of basketball, and they just haven't done
that in this series. There was a brief stretch spanning
(06:43):
the end of the second quarter in early third in
Game one where they went like five minutes of game
clock where they didn't get a single touch in the
paint where you're like, what are you guys doing? But
aside from that, they've actually played like a grown up
basketball team. I got a credit Tatum and Brown. I
think they've just done a really nice job of just
yea understanding the assignment. I think Joe Mizzoula talks about
like the different phases of the drive, like don't try
(07:06):
to hit a home run on the first drive. To me,
that's like advantage creation versus advantage extending. Like your job
is not to get an assist on the first drive.
You just need to compromise the defense. And they've done
a really good job of that. And so if you
can get into a situation where you have more favorable
matchups on Tatum and Brown and you focus more on contain,
I think that serves to better bait Boston into their
(07:29):
worst tendencies. But no matter what, they've got to do
something I don't understand as a scenario where you just
continue to let Luca kind of sit on an island.
I don't think this is Harden and PG. Remember how
like Harden and Paul George, like Luca kind of sort
of started to contain them a little bit in some moments.
I don't think he's going to be able to do
that about against Brown and Tatum.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
To you, well, he's a good matchup for Harden because
Harden can't really blow by like he can just body
up against Harden. Paul George is like a little bit
more willing to settle from three than what Jason's. Them
and Jalen Brown are Jalen and Jason. They're going to
try and get downhill and get to the rim at
the end of the day. And a big piece of
that is I think that Boston's again, like I brought
up spacing earlier, it can't go unnoticed here, right, the
(08:15):
fact that they have five guys on the court at
all times who can shoot, and not just shoot, but
are probably like forty percent three point shooters if you
leave them open, outside of maybe Drew Holiday, but Drew
Holiday hit forty percent of his catch and shoot threes
this year. I think that it makes it a lot
harder to kind of do what you're suggesting. I'm not
(08:37):
saying that you're wrong. I think you are right that
they need to play more conservatively, but it makes it
harder because the driving lanes are just wider. Right, they're
wider against Boston than they are against even like Oklahoma
City or Cleat or the Clippers. Right, it just makes
it way more difficult, I think to contain those drives,
Like Derek Jones Junior is like pressuring Jalen Brown at
(08:59):
the three point line even, which is kind of what
you have to do. And the lane to Jalen Brown's
right is just so wide and his first step is
so good that it almost doesn't matter. Right, Like, I
agree with you, like some of the like silly bs
stuff that you know PJ. Washington is doing, right, Like
(09:19):
the fact that he like keeps same side helping and
doubling and like digging into guy's handles on these drives
is just driving me crazy. Like he had he had
the one in Game two where it was like a
bounce pass out to Derek White and Derek White just
like caught and like immediately gathered into no pointer, no
dipped it. It was just like, well, come on, like
what are we doing here? Also, they need to stop
(09:43):
with like the scrambled double team stuff that they've done,
you know, sparingly in game one. In Game two, you know,
I think they did a decent amount when they panicked
in Game one, and then there's another possession in Game two,
I believe where PJ. Washington did like a post to
post double on I think it was Tatum who got
(10:03):
a mismall.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
They've been doubling Tatum in the post a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I hate it. You can't do it. He's too good
of a passer. Boston is too good at keeping the
advantage by rolling that ball around the perimeter. I truly
think that you need to make Tatum just like a
fade away post scorer at the end of the day
in those circumstances, kind of like you're saying.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, the when you play solid positional defense against Tatum,
where like you just keep your body in front, even
though he will have his possessions in the game where
he just goes right through you like a superstar and
dunks it, he'll settle for you know, two or three
right shoulder fades and left shoulder fades as well. And
like they're doing this too, where it's like it'll be
like Kyrie catches in the post against Tatum and he'll
(10:44):
just immediately overplay the high side and then they'll zone
up on the backside and then Tatum will just make
an easy bounce pass out of it, like they're the
over aggression is crazy, the strong side corner help from PJ. Washington.
In general, they were better in game two than they
were in Game one, but in general, through two games,
I think they overhelped, which is part of it. I
feel like is reprogramming yourself because Minnesota was the series
(11:05):
where you wanted to overhelp, like that was how they
beat you. And in so many ways, to me, this
comes down to matchups, like matchups have determined so much
of the championship picture this year because Denver was ill
equipped to deal with what Minnesota brought defensively, Minnesota was
ill equipped to deal with what Dallas brought defensively, and
(11:26):
Dallas is now ill equipped for Boston on both ends
of the floor. And like again, the I like to
bring it back to something you've said at the beginning, too,
if do what Boston's doing, like we're about to move
to Boston on offense or defense. And I thought Joe
Miszula's game plan has been literally brilliant, And I can't
say enough how much I've I've appreciated just not just
(11:49):
the not just the game plan itself, but the execution
of it through the first two games. But everything with
Joe Mizula is about tilting Dallas's offense towards above the
breakthree for guys like Derek Jones, Junior, PJ. Washington maxically,
but Josh Green, you know, Dante X, some of these
kinds of guys. And to your point, like you gotta
lean into that with Boston too, in the sense that
(12:12):
you overplay the corners, and if Porzingis is gonna take
a bunch of above the break threes, or Horford is
gonna take a bunch of above the break threes, or
even Jaylen Brown, you kind of have to live with
it to a certain extent. With a contest, obviously, you
want to offer that contest because that's the other thing too,
Like Boston's getting out on those guys, they're just they're
they're offering a contest after the fact, and so like
(12:33):
I think you have to kind of choose the lesser
of two evils, and taking away the rim and taking
away the corner I think is the best pathway to
them for them to try to play Boston towards their
lowest shot quality. And then you pointed this out, but
like Porzingis. I think he looked a little shaky in
game two. Uh, Drew Holliday went hit a couple of threes,
(12:55):
But if he's above the break instead of in the corner,
I think you like those results a little bit better.
So I think like trying to be smart about where
you help from would go a long way. But to
your point, like, this is the end of the floor
that I think Dallas has the fewest answers. Yeah, And
honestly I don't. I don't see a universe where they
like just strangle this Boston offense. And the worst part
(13:17):
about it is this was the game you had to win.
Boston got zero points seventy five points per jump shot
in game two. That's the one you have to win.
Dallas actually out shot Boston on jump shots in game two.
You had to get that one, and you didn't get it. Yeah,
moving over to the other side of the floor, go ahead,
did you?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I was going to say, like maybe this will be
the way to transition from that's out of the court
to this side of the court. A big problem for
me has been just Derek White has been like or
not Derek White. Derek Lively has been like completely ineffectual
in this series, right, I am wondering if they should
use some of those minutes that you're giving to Derek
(13:57):
Lively and go small with like PJ. Washington at the
five and just see what happens. I don't think it
could be worse because the end of the day, like
you're not getting the rim protection anyway from Lively because
they're just pulling them away from the basket. Now, Like,
if they're gonna play zone and adjust that way, great,
Like I'm I'm interested in seeing that playing more of
(14:18):
a matchup zone, Like we talked about finding ways to
get their rim protectors at the rim. If you're gonna
do that, great. Another option here could just be to
tried out gun Boston at the end of the day
and say, hey, we're not getting the rim protection anyway,
let's try and go like full you know, being able
to contain them on the perimeter on defense, just trying
(14:39):
to stop them from getting to the rim. Derek Lively
is not going to be better at that than our
perimeter defenders are, and just try and go five out
and go like PJ. Washington at the five. You probably
have to play Derek Jones still because Derek Jones is
such a critical defender against Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum.
But then you play, you know, honestly, like I might
dust off Tim Hardaway June Year next to Kyrie and
(15:01):
Luca and just try and outgun them and outshoot them
and hope that Tim Hardaway catches fire while you're containing
them on the perimeter a little bit, Tim makes it
harder to contain them. But like you're just not getting
anything from that center position anyway. And that's why I
think it might be worth like transitioning talking about this
now when we transition from defense to offense, if you're
(15:21):
able to space them out, I think that that would
cause Boston's defense, particularly when Christops is on the court,
a little bit more stress than what we've seen so far.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
No, I think this is a really good take, And
I actually was talking about this with my buddy Combo
this morning. I went on his podcast and he actually
presented this idea. And I find it fascinating in two ways.
Because to your point, yeah, you're not getting any rim
protection from Livelier Gafford because of the way they're setting
up the floor. In addition to that, Boston's doing a
pretty solid job of making decisions when they get to
(15:53):
the rim. Their speed that and it doesn't matter how
good Derek Jones is at containing the basketball if he's
never on the ball, because they're switching and ending up
with Luca and just attacking through Luca, and so rotational
speed becomes more valuable. So, for instance, like a guy
like Tim Hardaway Junior, if you put him on the ball,
his value is pretty low. But like if you're asking
(16:16):
him to sprint around in rotation, as long as he's
playing hard and understands where he's supposed to be next,
he might be able to do that job at least
to a certain extent. Then that pushes us to the
other end of the floor because you're right, like to me,
the number one factor that is disrupting Dallas's offense is
Tatum on the center because essentially what's happening is it's
(16:38):
not just that because Horford is switching onto Luca beautifully.
In general, Jalen Brown is doing a great job on
the ball. It's a team effort. I'm not trying to
underestimate that. But the entire geometry, the way that Denver
or Dallas wants to attack in the half court with
their pick and roll game is thrown off by the
fact that Lively and Gafford are in the dunker spot
rather than setting screens and rolling towards a vacant painted area.
(17:02):
And so to me, like to your point, they need
to try to mess with the spacing the same way
that Boston has been And what that means is you
need to make sure that you have above the break
three point shooters above the break. So who are the
guys for Dallas that I actually like shooting above the
break threes? It's Kyrie, It's Luca, It's Tim Hardaway Junior.
(17:24):
And if there was one of the role guys that
I feel most comfortable up there, it's probably Dante Exhum
believe it or not. He actually hit one in Game two,
but he's just got a really good set shot where
if he's got all day, I actually like him up there.
But he's not a great option. But the point is,
if you can find a way to set up the
floor to where you have Derek Jones and PJ. Washington
(17:45):
in the corners and you don't have an occupied dunker
spot and you're running action up top with Tim Hardaway
Junior and Luca just like ghost screens and stuff, and
Luca's compromising the defense and working with a vacant paint.
I think that that's serves to at least open things
up for you on the offensive end of the floor.
But the one problem I would have there is, to
(18:07):
this point in this series, Dallas has held up pretty
well in the glass. As a matter of fact, it's
fifty to fifty in rebound percentage through the two games.
I do worry about just the sheer athleticism advantage for
Boston tilting in that sense and them starting to do
a bunch of damage on the offensive glass. Do you
think that that would be an issue.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I don't know that it would be necessarily. I think
it could be for sure, But like with how much
they're spacing their bigs away from the rim, it would
be an awful big ass for you to say, Christops,
we need you to crush the offensive glass and then
get all the way back on defense against Kyrie, who
(18:45):
does tend to push the pace. Like if it was
just Luca on the court, I think that would be
a bit more of a concern. But when Kyrie is
out there, and Kyrie is willing to go a little
bit more often whereas Luke is going to slow it
up a little bit more. I don't think they would
crush them necessarily, given how intentional they're being about their
spacing with their bigs away from the rim right now,
(19:05):
particularly now. The way that I felt Dallas got the
advantage on Minnesota in that series was utilizing more double
screen actions double drags, particularly where you'd have Mike Conley
be the guy having to guard that first ball screen
defender or be the first ball screen defender, right, because
(19:28):
typically the way teams that the wait teams navigate those
is they will switch the first one and then they
will play drop in the second one, right, Especially Minnesota
with Ridy Gobert, right, they want to be able to
play switch and then drop. That ended up resulting in
a lot of mismatches where Mike Conley was on Luka
Doncic or Mike Conley was on Kyrie Irving coming off
(19:51):
and that was able to create an advantage, or when
Minnesota started to adjust, it created a lot of communication errors. Right,
been surprised about the level to which Dallas has not
really run as many double drags double screen actions in
this series.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
To this point.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I would like to see more of them. I think, now,
who were you trying to attack? This kind of solves
the problem that you were saying. I actually think that
Jason Tatum has been incredible off the ball in this series,
A sneaky think. He's kind of been the one guy
that you can get on the ball a little bit
more often than what people think. I might try and
(20:35):
get him switched on to Luca a little bit more often,
or switched particularly onto Kyrie a little bit more often
to get him going and then try and make that
work that way where like you have Christops in a drop,
but again to do this, man, it gets hard though,
because like then you have Christops and drop and he's
probably gonna out high point Daniel Gafford, but they caught
(20:56):
Rudy in these circumstances, and maybe this is it, Like
maybe you just go if you're still gonna play big,
you go with like a double drag at the top,
you try and get Luca on. You're trying to get
Jason Tatum on Luca, and then you see how it goes.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
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and responsible gaming resources. Yeah, I've noticed that too, where Luke,
(23:02):
Because Luca is hunting Tatum a lot in the first
half of game two, and it's just the simple thing
that Luca does to everybody wants to get that little
bit of an angle on you. It's just over because
he's so damn big. The what I worry about with
like the double screen action is especially when Horford's out there,
I think Boston is just totally fine with Horford on Luca.
(23:24):
Now the one thing that I've struggled to understand, as
it pertains to in the Porzingis lineups, Why in the
world have they not tried to go ahead?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Well, the Porzingis lineups are the ones that are killing
them though, like that, if you take away those lineups,
like it's basically an even series so far.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
M Well, and so the specifically with Porzingis, And I've
been so impressed by Porzingis defensively in the series, even
on switches. I think he's done a pretty good job.
Why because when you actually see Boston end up with
poor Zingus, whether it's a transition cross match or something,
or Porzingis is on Lively or Gafford, you can actually
(24:05):
see Dallas's offense click back into shape. They're like the
big dunk that Derek Lively had in the second half
over Derek White. It was a miss pushing transition cross match.
Tatum ended up on Derek Jones in the right corner
or left corner. They ran the ball screen, just easy
pocket pass to Lively. Lively dunks all over Derek White.
(24:28):
Why hasn't and I called for this after game one
and maybe there has to be something I'm missing. Why
hasn't Dallas tried a ram screen to just get Tatum
to concede the switch, cause and basically what I'm what
I'm looking at there is like just adding that if
you're gonna if you're gonna let Boston guards your pick
(24:51):
and roll three on three, meaning like you're gonna let
them have Tatum parked underneath the basket while you have
Derek Jones either trying to roll into all that traff
or pop above the break, why not instead of having
Gafford or Lively just stand there because they're not doing
damage on the offensive glass. Neither team is really doing
that much damage on the offensive glass, how do you
keep him engaged? And to me, like what I would
(25:14):
like to see And part of this is like they
got to get the ball up the floor quicker, Like
they've got to get up into their offense quicker. But
once they get up the floor, what I'd love to
see is have PJ or Derek Jones Junior just run
like sprint down and screen Tatum hard, and then as
the screen is to have Lively sprint up into the action,
(25:35):
I think they'll concede the switch and let Porzingis run
up into the ball screen. From there, I would literally
turn around and turn it into stack pick and roll,
And as Luca comes off the ball screen and Lively's rolling,
I turn around in backscreen porzingis again and just kind
of adds some confusion because to me, this is ending
up in way too many ISOs, Like in general, there's
(25:57):
very few roll man opportunities, a very few spot up oppertunities.
I pulled this stat this morning. Through two games, sixty
eight spot up opportunities for Boston, twenty eight for Dallas
according to Synergy. That's just insane. And part of the
reason is is like, because of the fact that Boston
has Tatum parked under the basket, they haven't needed to
(26:17):
engage any of the corner defenders in to guard the action,
so those guys aren't getting open. And so like I
through two games, I haven't seen a single ram screen.
Am I like just screaming at the ether here? Or
do you think that that Boston would just switch all
those things easily and shut it off? Like, what do
you think is the reason why we haven't seen to
your point, the double drag I think falls into this
(26:37):
list too. Haven't we seen more complications in pick and roll?
To try to make this work.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, and like you brought up like stack spain ball
screens too, Like that was literally going to be my
next point. It's like, why haven't we seen too many
of those? Like it's just that they're making it so easy.
The thing that I feel like they're doing most often
when Christops is out there is they're just running like
empty ball screens to try and just like make him
guard in like a big o't of space basically. And
that's where I'm glad that you brought up that you
(27:03):
think he's done a pretty good job. They're just willing
to concede. Like a lot of times It'steric White who
ends up on Christops, or it's one of the other
wings or whatever, and they're just like willing to concede
that three to those guys, and that ends up being
a little bit too easy for them. So I completely
agree with you. It requires much more screening and movement.
I thought that what they ran early in the second
(27:23):
quarter actually is kind of similar to what you're saying.
It was a little bit different in terms of functionality,
but they ran a set three straight times to start
the second quarter where they essentially set a similar it's
not a ram screen. It's just like a middle screen
for Luca to come up and get the ball at
(27:43):
the elbow essentially, And the first time he got switched
on to Peyton Pritchard and ended up shooting like a
mid range jumper over him, and it was an easy
shot and he drilled it. The second one they ran
a counter off of it where they had the screener
come down screen for Luca, who then veered off to
the right, and then Dante exum sprinted down and set
(28:04):
like a second screen for Luca to give him a
wide open corner.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Three.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I agree with you that I think engaging those defenders
right around the basket with screening actions is a really,
really good way to actually be able to try and
get the matchups in the mismatches that you're kind of
hoping for in those circumstances, be it out of ram
screens or screen middle ball screens just to get Luca
the ball at the elbow, or whatever you want to do.
(28:30):
But completely one hundred percent agree with you, and I
think that running like a stack or spain off of
that is even more lethal, and I'm surprised that they
haven't gone to it more it really is just more
I am surprised that they have not run more like
combo screen actions basically to be able to try and
get their guys free and to be able to force
(28:51):
more communication within the Boston defense.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
I think they need to do it off ball too, Like,
if Gafford and Lively are not catching lobs out of
the dunkers and they're not getting offensive rebounds out of
the dunker spot, you need to have them running off
ball screening actions like they just at this point, what
Boston has done is they've taken all of the strengths
of your role players and they've just kind of reconfigured
(29:16):
where they are on the floor to make it so
that their weaknesses. PJ. Washington great corner three point shooter,
he's not getting corner three point looks, you know. Derrek
Jones Jr. Great a good corner three point shooter, a
good slasher of closeouts, but he's like he's operating as
a pick and roll roll man now, which is like
a completely different kind of job for him. Lively and
Gafford are these rim runners who are not running. They're
(29:37):
stuck in the mud down in the dunker spot, and
so in general, I just want to see so much
more off ball screening action. And the main reason why
is like, I do not think Dallas can beat Boston
by isoating them to death. I don't think this is
I don't think this is you know, the twenty sixteen
calves where you're gonna get like, you know, forty a
(29:58):
piece out of them the rest. So I think the
deep defensive personnel for Boston is too good. Those those
Cavs teams had matchups that they could attack. This is
not that type of series. I think they've got to
try to find a way to free some things up there.
And again, like to me, it's it's just got to
be more of that kind of screening action. I did
like that Lucas seemed to target the smaller guards more
(30:20):
in game two. They didn't that they scored a lot
more in the post in game two than they did
in game one. I thought Luca ran out of gas
there towards the end as he missed those couple over
over Pritchard that he normally makes. But like the I
don't think attacking Horford is an option. Horford is, you know,
Horford is probably in my lifetime, the best that I've
(30:41):
seen of like as a positional just like read where
you're going, beat you to the spot, take the contact,
and make you shoot over the top of any center
I've seen. I think he's one of the best at that.
I think that's why he did such a good job
on him Bead over the years. I think that's why,
like the the big power players, he just guards so
well and like every time Luca gets him on a switch,
(31:02):
I just don't think that's an option. And so one
of the things I liked about that sequence that you
were talking about there in the start of the second
quarter is kind of like targeting, Like instead of having
Luca just hunt in like ball screen switch, then work
off the dribble, dribble twenty five times, get him catches
where he already is in a good, strong position where
it's the jobs a little bit easier. But no matter what,
(31:23):
they're going to have to do more in terms of
those screening actions to try to free things up. What
do you think what's your just overall opinion of this
series at this point with Boston up two ozho, how
do you see things changing slash not changing as we
go to Dallas.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
I don't see much changing because last night was like
you kind of said the night that Dallas had to
get it. And the fact that those four guys I
mentioned earlier, Howser, Porzingis, Tatum, and Brown went two for
twenty from three, that just feels deeply troubling to me
if I'm a fan, Like the fact that this game
(32:02):
probably should have been a twenty point loss in my opinion, Like,
even while Dallas was up four, I was texting with
my podcast partner Bryce, and we were just sitting there, going,
this is gonna be ten before halftime, Like they're gonna
start shooting at some point, they're gonna start making these shots,
and they never did, and they never really did throughout
the course of the entire game outside of Drew Holiday
I think made two, when Derek White made maybe four
(32:24):
of ten if I remember correctly. But like they shoot
twenty six percent from three, They're not gonna shoot twenty
six percent from three again in all likelihood, Like, man,
I don't I don't know that we've come up with
good enough solutions here to change the tenor of this series. Unfortunately,
it's that's what.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
We're trying, though.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
You were trying, like I want, I want like there
to be excitement. I would love for Dallas to come
back and like luc could go out and dropped like
a fifty point triple double. But I don't know, man,
what do you think?
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Well? And then Boston is also just like a but
there I do. I do think they're a better road
team than they are home team, in large part because
I think that there's something about the challenge on the
road that keeps them more engaged. I mean, I think
they're a victim of their own talent in so many cases.
I mean, both of their home losses in this playoff
run were just absolute dud defensive efforts, Like, I don't
(33:19):
think we're going to see that sort of thing. Let's
just put it this way. What's more likely this series
comes back to Boston to two or it's a sweep.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I think a sweep is more likely. The thing that
I will ask you though, Christops didn't look super hot
at the end of Game two, right, Like, he wasn't
moving as fluidly. This is what we've seen. If he is,
you know, unable to play twenty minutes in game three,
or you know, if he god forbid, he sits like
(33:52):
nobody's rooting for that. But whatever, I actually do think
that changes the series substantially in terms of the matchup
to the Boston will be able or Dallas will be
able to get on the defensive side of the court
whenever Al Horford is out. And again, the Poorzingis minutes
are the ones that are killing Dallas right now, because
(34:14):
those are the minutes where Boston is like five out,
extremely well spaced, you can't help off anybody like from anywhere.
If Porzingis was to miss time, I do think that
genuinely changes the entire schematics of what we're talking about here,
and like really would change the series drastically.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Well, to put it simply, if Cornette was out there,
it would just be a disaster. If I was Boston,
I'd probably even look to go small if that were
I would, just because, you know, because Dallas hasn't been
able to capitalize in seize mismatches in this series. But yeah,
that's I mean, that's the one wrinkle is the is
the Porzingis injury piece of it. And even then even
then I think I'd probably lean Boston. But yeah, that's
(34:57):
the that's the one wrinkle I look at. I agree
with you, I think it's far more likely this is
a sweep than to two. Coming back to Boston. The
problem is is, like, the game plan is the game plan. Like,
I don't think Joe Miszula is gonna overreact if Derek
Jones and PJ. Washington hit seven above the break threes
(35:18):
in game three. The game plan is the game plan.
The quality opportunities aren't gonna be there.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
You know what's amazing about that this was exactly what
Oklahoma City wanted to do. This is exactly what their
strategy was. We're gonna let Eric Jones and PJ. Washington
beat us. And I think that Boston is executing it better,
particularly in terms of the corners, right. They're denying them the.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah I remember more corner corner threes, Yeah, which is
the key.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
And I actually think that's a really really important point
that you made earlier, that they're denying them the spots
that they want to shoot threes. But man, it is
a little bit funny that like everyone like roasted Oklahoma
City a little bit for just being like, we're gonna
leave PJ. Washington open and now here, Boston is basically
executing the strategy of leaving PJ. Washington open, And it's working.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Dude. I felt so confident that Oklahoma City was going
to lose. I picked against him in that series, but
I felt very confident they were going to lose in
the first two rounds, and they did. But I left
that playoff run being so much higher on Oklahoma City
for next year. Like they're they're nasty, they're mean, their
physical lou dort is just that is like such a weapon.
(36:30):
I love that Oklahoma City team. All right, So we
have two more quick things I want to hip four
get out here. One. You had texted me about a
question you wanted to ask I do surrounding this series.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Okay, so I'm pulling it up right now. I want
to get it like that on it. Do you have
an overarching big takeaway from this playoff run in terms
of if you were building a team for next year's
title picture, is there something you would be looking at
from an overall Skars perspective that you see as a
(37:02):
potential you know, point of attack or like something that
is exceptionally valuable or a marginal advantage beyond just like
having superstars, right, Because if anything, I think what you know,
this series has shown us and this playoffs has shown
us is it doesn't take one of the top three
guys in the league to win a title right now
(37:23):
with how the NBA is, So, is there a schematic
marginal advantage or like a roster construction marginal advantage that
you're looking at you're taking away from the playoffs to
take forward into the future.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Okay, So I've been thinking a lot about this. First
of all, that the last bit there. I do generally
think you need a top three player. I think Jokic was,
I think Steph Was, I think Giannis Was, I think
Lebron Was, I think Kawhi Was. I think I think this.
I think this is five thirty million dollar players on
one team. I think that's what Boston is. So I
I do. But from the schematic angle, I I do
(37:59):
think that five out is a more resilient offense than
four out in the sense that like just one simple
matchup tweak just let's put our centers on bad above
the break three point shooters and let's put Tatum on
the center has like completely crumbled Dallas's offense in so
many different ways, Whereas like when you run a five
(38:22):
out attack, there are just so many different angles that
you can work in. So many different ways you can
reconfigure spots on the floor to make things work, whereas
like if you're a spread, pick and roll four out
one end team, it's just as difficult. And so I
do think from a I do think from a stylistic standpoint,
(38:42):
I think teams have to have a five out look,
and I wouldn't be surprised if that's something that we
I think we'll see Luca in a five out offense
before too long here, in the next few years, I
think that there will be a team that tries to
put him in that type of situation. That said, though,
the reason why I've struggled so much with this question
because in transparency, Sam did text me this question so
I could think about it. Denver is so different from
(39:07):
this Boston team in so many different ways. Then even
just the difference between like like play finishers versus like
do it all guys like to me, KCP and Michael
Porter Junior and Aaron Gordon are play finishers. They can
operate in a five out offense. But like we saw
in the Minnesota series, how how much Denver struggled as
(39:27):
soon as they solved the Jamal and jokis like it
just it just kind of crumbled from there, right, Like
I I think that, I think that in general, you've
got to build a roster base or you've got to
build a game plan based on what your roster is.
So for instance, like to Missoula's credit, he really has
kind of maximized this group offensively in so many different
(39:49):
ways by getting them to buy into drive and kick.
But at the end of the day, if I had
to pick one thing, it'd be versatility of play style
on both ends of the floor. Yeah, I think that inevitably,
Like the Eastern Conference was really easy this year because
there were five good teams and four of them ended
up on one side of the bracket and they all
beat the heck out of each other and got hurt.
(40:10):
And then Boston had the other three bad teams and
they and they got out of it. But I do
think the East is going to be tougher in the future.
I think Orlando is gonna be tougher. I think teams
are going to enter into that picture. So in general,
we saw this in the West. We just talked about
at the beginning of the show. The matchup, like the
matchup resiliency as you're working through the Conference. I think
(40:30):
you've got to be able to beat different types of
teams along the way, and so I do think you
have to be like I think you have to be
able to defend in a deep drop and in a
high drop. I think you got to have his own look.
I think you got to be able to have some
guys that can hold up on switches. I think on
the offensive end of the floor, I think you have
to be able to play out of the post. I
think you have to be able to play out of
pick and roll. I think you have to be able
to match up hunt in isolation. I think there's a
(40:52):
certain like variety that you need to have, because I
don't think this Dallas team was the best basketball team
in the Western Conference. Personally. Yeah, I think Denver was,
But I think Denver caught a really difficult matchup and
then that team had a really bad time with Dallas.
And I would argue that both Minnesota and Denver would
(41:13):
have fared better against Boston than Dallas did. Would you
agree there?
Speaker 1 (41:17):
So yes, I do. But like what you're saying, though,
is actually why I was higher on Dallas than most
people were. You know, when we did our like championship
tier grades. At the deadline, I said I'd bought Dallas
in the top five. It's exactly that. It's because I
thought that they had different ways to stop different things,
right and now against Boston, and Boston is just like
(41:39):
this whole different beast that they just didn't have the
answer to this test. But I thought Dallas had more
answers to the test than most other teams. It's just
like in Denver's case, right, Like Denver probably I think
Denver probably beats Dallas for what it's worth, But like
I think that I do too, answer to the test
(42:01):
is like just better than everybody else, right, Like on
some level, it's just that Minnesota is built to stop
that single thing, right, which is great. The two things
that stand out to me, you're spacing on offense and
ground coverage on defense. Having that five out spacing look,
which you kind of emphasize. I don't really need to
go into that, you I think broke down perfectly. Ground
(42:23):
coverage on defense is what Minnesota had. I think it's
what Boston has. I think it's what Dallas has as well,
with those lively lineups being able to cut off the
court and cut off like large swaths of the court
right now is like, by far the most important thing
that you can do, even when their guys are getting
beaten off the bounce in this series, having that ground coverage,
being able to rotate around is at least giving them
(42:45):
a chance on some level. But that's kind of where
I'm at. Ground coverage on defense, long athletes, you know,
shooting on offense, and a lot of the times it's
hard to find those two things in a single player package,
which is what makes things so difficult.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
To your point, if Derek Jones and PJ. Washington were
good above the break three point shooters, this is a
totally different series. Like, like they the problem that I
can't tell you how often I'm seeing on the on
these when I'm doing my film sessions, because Luca's kind
of got his defender in jail and he's working downhill.
(43:22):
The entire above the break line is either empty, yeah,
or Derek Jones is up there, yeah, or Josh Green
is up there. But so like, and there's the thing
they're not. They're making themselves easy to guard because they
they're not occupying that side of the floor with the threat.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
But here's the piece of that that makes it really hard.
And this is why building a team is so exceptionally difficult. Right,
if Derek Jones is a good above the break three
point shooter, you couldn't have gotten him for the minimum.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Right, He's a twenty.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Million dollar player and he's gonna be like a twelve
million dollar player this year. So like that's what that's
what makes this really hard if you're a team builder, right,
if you're a GM like having this is what has
made Brad Stevens so good his job, right, Like he
has gone out and paid the price to be able
to go get the guys that make his scheme, the
(44:08):
scheme that Boston wants to build so functional.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Well and again, like anybody could have had those guys,
and Brad went out and got them, you know today
his credit Sam, before we get you out of here,
I'm just gonna see you up for a quick monologue.
What was your takeaway on the Dan Early News this morning?
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, So my takeaway is I was very impressed that
there were no leaks and that everybody did not know
the way this was going to go. Like you should
have seen my text messages. It was hysterical, Like everyone's
asking me, like what's he gonna do, like, what do
you think is gonna happen? And I would just be like,
(44:59):
I don't know. My answer was, I thought fifty five
forty five he stays at Connecticut. If you would have
asked me the night that the story broke, I would
have said, sixty forty goes to the Lakers. And I
thought that, like, the further along it went, the more
likely it was that he would say Yukon. But the
fact that it was that close in that like nobody knew,
like I talked to I don't want to put this
person on blast, like one of the premier college basketball
(45:21):
insiders last night there this morning, your time, and he goes, yeah,
I think I'd say fifty five to forty five, he goes,
So A was really impressed that like none of this
got out, because typically it gets out in some way
shape or for him. B I have no idea why
the Lakers only offered six seventy If you're going out
(45:43):
and trying to get Danny Hurley, that's just not a
good enough offer, point blank. With the way that like
the coaching market has inflated over the course of the
last five years, really over the course of the last
twelve months. At the end of the day, Steve Kurr
is making seventeen. I think Greg it's just making like
eighteen or so.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Bud and Oles is making ten a year.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I mean, come on, right, Like, if you really believe
in Danny Hurley, you have to go and make it
so that he's turning down. Like I'm not saying you
have to offer him like five years one hundred and
forty or whatever it is, but like you probably have
to offer him five years eighty. You probably have to
offer him sixteen a year. You have to give him
the money Williams offer at least, right. So that leads
me to my next question, which is how worried were
(46:28):
they that Danny Hurley was serious maybe and that they
were inflating their own coaching market potentially by having that
offer get out there saying you were willing to pay
six seventy for a guy that you know has never
won an NBA game. So, you know, let's say it's
JJ Reddick. I don't know if it's going to be
JJ Reddick. You know, I'm yeah, I don't know if
(46:50):
it's gonna be JJ Redick.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
I'm hearing brago noise, Are you hearing that too.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
I have heard a lot of different things, to the
point where my impression has been this entire time that
there they were undergoing a process, that there was no
decision that was made, that there was no like yeah,
like I felt like they were undertaking a process. Was
the whole thing that there was never never certainty that
(47:18):
it was going to be Jj, never certainty that it
was going to be Barrego. Like they were really trying
to go down the road and explore everything that was
available to them, and they never made any choices. Now,
maybe that was it. Maybe they were trying to make
sure that their market was not so overinflated that, you know,
they have to pay James Barrego, you know, nine million
dollars a year now because you offer Danny Hurley eleven
(47:39):
point six or something. I don't know. I think if
you're chasing Danny Hurley, you just have to chase them
and say, like, screw it, we're going balls to the
wall here and we're trying to get the guy we want.
And to me, in my opinion, I know, it's twenty
million dollars more than the Connecticut offer, but six years
seventy million is not a good enough offer given the
current market of NBA coaches.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yeah, Colin had dropped to me last night on the
show that he had heard a much lower number than
the one hundred million dollar number that was getting thrown around. Yeah,
And that was where I started to get a little
bit worried, because Colin's really connected, obviously in the LA area,
and I felt the same way. My thing was, like,
especially like in the grand scheme of the television deal
that's coming around, in the grand scheme of what your
(48:23):
luxury tax bill is, what's fifteen million a year for
a coach that could be a culture setter? Like I
really struggled with that. I will say that it wouldn't
have been a perfect fit. I think that asking a
year twenty two Lebron to be held accountable by someone
like Danny Hurley would have presented some challenges. I'm sure that,
(48:44):
but I thought, especially like Dan's ability to create space
with non shooters on the floor, I thought that would
have been a wonderful fit with Vanderbilt and Anthony Davis.
I was so so optimistic about it, but at the
same time, like I just had this underlying ominous The
Lakers find a way to botch stuff like this typically
(49:04):
kind of thing, and that that that tempered any sort
of of over excitement on my part.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
You know, what I'll say on the Lebron front, though,
is like everybody around the league will tell you that,
like if Lebron like really respects the guy who's in
charge and like really believes in him, he has no
problem being coached hard, Like he's like totally fine with
like hey, like I mean, look like he might not
want Danny Hurley like get in his face and like
f bombing him, which might have happened at some point.
(49:33):
Like we just need to be realistic about that. But
like I think Lebron gets this rap as like a
coach killer right like throughout his career, and I think
as long as he respects the guy, and it seems
like he would have been going into this relationship with
like a real degree of respect for Danny Hurley, he's
fine from what I know, like being able to like
(49:54):
you know take that right like he'll he'll he'll respond
to that from what I know. So you know, whether
or not there's another coach out there on the market
that would be able to coax that out of him,
I don't know. Necessarily. But you know, I do think
that is a bit of a misconception about Lebron. Not
that you're saying that like he was, you know, gonna
be a problem, but I do think that there's a
(50:15):
little bit more to Lebron than than what the current
overarching philosophy is that I get in my Twitter mentions
every night.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Unfortunately, no, I totally agree. Well, the thing too, is like,
it's not David Blatt. He's not coming over from Europe.
There's something right, you know, there's something about like the
domestic dominance of Yukon that I think would resonate.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
One hundred percent. Like I had somebody ask me, like,
why is this different than David Blatt? David Blatt won
multiple euro League championships. I was like, you think twenty
eight year old Lebron was watching the EuroLeague like every night.
He's definitely watching Connecticut, watching the NCAA tournament and seeing
what that looks like. He's not watching euro League every night.
He's not staying up until two am in the morning
to watch like Osville versus Redstone. Are you know what
(51:00):
I mean? So, yeah, No, it's it's interesting. Look, I mean,
shout out Danny Hurley saying it Connecticutte, you know, stay
where you're happy. I'm a big, big proponent. I live
in Melbourne, Australia, because you know, be worried or happy
at the end of the day. That's it. So I
respect Danny Hurley's choice in that respect.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
I'm just sad because I thought he could have turned
that organization around. All right, that's all we have time
for today, Sam, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time
out of your busy schedule to come on. I need
to call you soon so that we can catch up,
and then we also need to take more time to
talk more this summer on the show. I'm sure we'll
find some time to do that. I'm hoping to see
you out at Summer League as well. Before we get
you out of here, can you shout out what you're
(51:41):
working on on your end?
Speaker 1 (51:43):
So NBA Draft Guide, I wrote far too many works
for the NBA Draft Guide. It's going to be over
one hundred and fifty thousand words on seventy five draft
prospects this year. That will be up next week at
some point over at the Athletic And then go to
the Game Theory podcast over on YouTube over on whatever
podcasting platform you use, and you'll be able to kind
of hang out with us every second night whenever we
(52:06):
go live.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
That's a perfect excuse to get you back on because
I don't pay any attention to the draft until after
the NBA Finals, so maybe we'll get you on at
that point. All right, guys, that is all we have
for today. As always, we sincerely I appreciate you guys
for supporting the show. I will be back to calling
Coward on Wednesday night after the final buzzer of Game three.
I will see you guys.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Thay the volume
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