June 11, 2025 • 42 mins
The best QBs in the NFL are mostly in the AFC
Former Indiana Pacers Center Roy Hibbert joins The Herd to talk about the NBA Finals matchup between the Thunder and his former team
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Here we go, it's our number two. All sorts of
stuff happening. Aaron Rodgers is now officially a Pittsburgh Steeler,
and we're gonna go to Roy Herbert, the former All
Defensive Team two time All Star for the Indiana Pacers,
who played tonight at home, getting five and a half points.
I actually think I'll take the points tonight. I do think.
(00:48):
I don't think there's a talent disparity with Indiana Oklahoma City,
which I do. I did feel like there was a
talent disparity between Milwaukee and Indiana or Oklahoma City in Minnesota.
I think Pascal si Okam's an a player, Halliburton's an
a player. Miles Turner is a great rim protector. I
(01:08):
actually like Indiana. I like him at home, and I
think Okay see because of their youth and so many
rotational players is not a great road team. So I'll
take the points with Indy tonight and we'll talk about
that in a second. So you know, you know this
that last year was a great not this pass draft.
The one before was a great draft. Most of those
quarterbacks went to the NFC. Jaden Daniels, Michael Pennix, JJ McCarthy,
(01:32):
Caleb Williams, Bowe Nicks went to the AFC. But the
reason the AFC has been better than the NFC, not
necessarily just the Super Bowl, but overall, is because the
AFC for about a seven year stretch kept hitting on quarterbacks.
And you know C J. Stroud and Herbert and Burrow
and Mahomes and Allen, they just kept hitting and hitting
and hitting on him. So if the young NFC quarterbacks
(01:54):
like Jayden Daniels and Caleb and Pennix, if they can
hit in that draft a couple of years ago, it'll
even things out. But right now, the best quarterbacks in
football are overwhelmingly in the AFC. So now as Aaron
Rodgers goes from the Jets to the Steelers, he stays
in the AFC again with a defensive culture and a
defensive head coach. I let's just stay how good do
(02:18):
we think he is compared to the other Now he's
passed his prime, he's forty one year old. Aaron with
the other AFC quarterbacks, well, I'll just start it with this,
since twenty twenty two, and that includes the last year
in Green Bay, Aaron is not Geno Smith. And I
know you don't want to hear that, but if you
told me I had a game to win, I'd take Geno.
Gino right now moves, he's more mobile, he's pretty close
(02:40):
to his prime. They'll probably a bit out of the prime.
He has a better passer rating, completion percentage, much larger
yards per game, and he's wenty more games. So and
Geno's not in the upper tier of the AFC quarterbacks
in my opinion do I think he's a little undervalued.
But if I went today and you told me best
quarterbacks in the AFC, and maybe my order is not
(03:01):
perfect or to your liking, because I think Burrow last
year honestly was the best quarterback, I'd go Alan Mahomes, Burrow, Lamar,
that's the big four. Nobody disputes. I'd go Herbert C. J.
Stroud and I put Geno seven, and again, when Gino
has a run game in his career in Seattle, he
was good. His passer rating's over one hundred, so we
(03:21):
can say now Gino's Sam Darnold. When he's rattled or
there's pressure, he can be reckless. But if you give
him time and you give him a decent run game,
Gino's fits pretty good quarterback. He's a B plus plus.
And I would put the eighth best quarterback bo Nickx,
who's going into year two with Sean Payton, and I
think bow Knicks is so much more athletic than anybody
(03:41):
wants to give him credit for. His running is a
huge element of that offense. And then number nine, I
think you get Aaron Trevor Lawrence in Tua, where it
kind of just depends on the game. I don't trust
too and bad weather up north. Trevor Lawrence makes too
many mistakes, and Aaron's he is a pocket quarterback, So
that's kind of what you're looking at. Can you make
(04:02):
the playoffs with the ninth best quarterback in the AFC? Absolutely,
especially if your defense is great, But that's kind of
where he's at right now. He's sort of in that
to Trevor Lawrence, Aaron Rodgers. I think that's fair. He's
forty one, he's a strictly a pocket quarterback. And Arthur Smith,
six years coach and coordinators, had one top ten offense.
Remember the Steelers lost their best running back, their left tackling,
(04:22):
their best receiver. No other team in the NFL had
that kind of losses in offensive production. And with that
we bring in Roy Hibbert at the two time All
Star from the Pacers all defensive guy. I want to
start with this when you guys would face the Heatles
and those games were good and they were combative, especially
in Indiana, but there was a sense there was a
(04:42):
big gap in talent, and I would agree mostly if
Bosh was in his prime, waigde probably out of it.
Lebron the best player in the world. I don't think
there's a gap in OKC and Oklahoma City talent like that.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I do think OKASE is deeper, but I think Siakam
and Halliburton are both a players, whereas SGA may be
better than both. But at this point home gruns wildly inconsistent.
What to you the talent between OKAC and Indy? Where
are you on it.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
To be honest with you, I'm kind of where you
are are right now. Both of these teams have kind
of figured out their identity and they do it in
a group setting.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Okayc really does it with their defense on the and
everybody has a part of it.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Sga, you know, really gets his hands in.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
They're trying to get a lot of loose balls and
it propels their offense as well. So defense propelling their offense.
Now with the Pacers, I don't overmatch. Their identity is
so much different than my team's identity. We did it
through defense and getting stops at the rim myself, David West,
and obviously Paul George and Land Stevenson and George Hill
in the perimeter. But this team plays a touch pace
(05:52):
and that's their identity and they got to get in
the fast break point says, just to cover that difference
that OKAC brings on the on the defensive end. Nine
fast break points last game. That to me is unacceptable.
This is a team that even on a loss in
Game three against the Knicks, they had sixteen in a
six point loss. So that is there and that's where
the magic happens. And Halliburton, to me is a focal
(06:14):
point here. And I'm not sure if from answering your question,
but I would like to see tonight, in tonight's game,
Halliburton take it upon himself to maybe take two or
three more shots that may be not the right place
because he's such a good, unselfish player that sometimes to
his own detriment. I think his teammates would be okay
if he took a couple extra shots where he looked
people off and try to push the pace, get an
(06:35):
and one at the rim, kind of change the pace.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Because Indiana at Gainesbridge they go crazy. This is all
we have.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
We have cults and we have basketball, and that's basically
I think what can help him win tonight?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
When did you realize, Halliburton? And by the way, most
of the guys coming into the league are eighteen, nineteen,
twenty years old, so it's not like the NFL, where
a college kids had four years in a college weight room.
A lot of NFL players come into the league either
you know, engaged, are married, and they also know their
careers are shorter. So NFL guys come in more adult.
(07:06):
These NBA guys are still developing. You don't know what
you have when did you first think Halliburton. Was there
a moment Roy for you that you thought, oh wow,
oh wow, this this could be a star in this league.
Was it two years ago when was your first thought
that this kid just wasn't a good, gangly young point guard.
He was something different.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
I think, you know, it's slowly built and it's the
way I felt that a star was being born, but
a different one, a different one where he doesn't need
to take all the shots anymore. So I think in
the last two three years, he's really, you know, caught
the attention to everybody Indiana, maybe not national wise, but
the amazing the last two years, just the way how
they played. The Pacers had gotten better and better and better.
(07:48):
And he's not selfish. This team is not selfish at all.
Pascal Siakam last year came in halfway through in the
season with a great trade.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
It was able to fit right in.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
And you know, some of those best players like Lebron
during that heat time, everybody has to sacrifice, and to me,
a true leader willing to sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah. The you know, it's interesting with Indiana, their pace
of play. The NBA has decided we're gonna let you
be very physical, and I think in seven game series
it can be problematic. I think it actually is. Why
New York beat Boston is that New York came in
and they're they they want to make it muddy and
(08:26):
ugly and physical, and they're built for it. When you
look at Indiana and their pace and their style, do
you think it age as well? Is this is this just?
I mean, Denver looked like the best team in the
world and then a year later Denver can't win a
second or third playoff series. Does Indiana age well? Do
they keep Turner? Does this style age well?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
I think they should keep Turner.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
He's well on his way to become one of the
best pacer I think centers uh in history. With his
amount of winds he's had, I think he should have
been an All Star at this point time. But the
way hell they play, I think if they're able to
continue to have a good bench now, I think their
bench wasn't as good as okay C's bench last time.
But when you got when you have Obie Topp and
you know who could hit you know, five threes in
(09:13):
a game and give you seventeen points. When he starts
off the game with three bad turnovers in Game one
and in still be able to finish strong. When you
have TJ McConnell, who's like an undersized guard. The plays
defense really hard from picking up the top of the
key and then also pushing the pace. He got Jalen
Brunson in a lot of foul trouble in games three
and four against that New York Knicks team. So I
(09:33):
think you have that core, and then you keep building
around getting good, smart pieces that fit.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
I think the team could age pretty well.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I gotta ask you about Cooper Flag. So you played
several years with the Georgetown Hoyas. You were of two
time first team All Biggie, So you played a lot
of college basketball. That's just not the world we live
in anymore, although the NIL is keeping guys in a
little longer. When you watch Cooper Flag, go back to
your first nest year in the NBA. What is Cooper
Flag's number one challenge gonna be from dominant college player
(10:07):
to NBA player? What is going to be a smack
in the face? What is going to be tough?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
All right?
Speaker 4 (10:13):
So for me, I would initially say the physicality, but
having seen him play against USA players and NBA type
players and have viral moments where he like embarrasses some
NBA talent. I don't think that's going to be an
issue for me. It's just gonna figure out, you know,
his place in like on the team. When you know
(10:34):
they say when Kyrie gets back, where is he gonna
fill in? Is Kyrie gonna be able to you know
who's who's known as an alpha? Is he going to
be able to fit in well with him? Which I
assume they do, they have that due connection. But he
can go in like ten to twenty game stretches where
he's playing well then and then and then and I
mean ad gets hurt.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Now he has to take over.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
So finding his place every couple of games is probably
gonna be the biggest thing in terms of because they
have two alphas right there and then. And also to me,
is it's finding a three point shot consistently. He took
three shots in the three pointers per game last year,
so I feel he's going to be a lot more open.
And if he doesn't see a couple go in as
a rookie, that could really mess with your mind saying that,
(11:14):
you know what I did last year was so successful
and now have two three games where I'm missing him,
and then the three point shot is such a big
shot in the NBA. I think that's going to be
a happy medium right there for him to try to
find the perfect setting.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I can go back to even the seventies and the
NBA roy has been a players league. But I do
think the x's and o's matter, but culture matters. So
when Mark Jackson left and Steve Kerr arrived, it went
from a defensive culture. It probably benefited Played Thompson and
Steph it was more of an offensive culture. I think
(11:46):
Eric Skolstra. Eric Spolstra has always demanded you play defense Popovich.
So when the Knicks fired Tibbs, now multiple teams have
said you can't, you can't draft our players, you can't
interview our coach. And I look at the Knicks. I
like their talent. I don't love it. I like it,
but I would argue this, they were Villanova in New York.
(12:11):
They were tough, they were scrappy, and that was created
by Tibbs. Am I overvaluing tibbs effect on the Knicks
because I look at their culture and I think I
love Brunson, But some of it is when I think
of the Knicks. I'm like, if you had to guess,
you'd be like, oh, that's a Tibbs team. The way
they play, the minutes of their starters, their physical I
(12:35):
don't know. I think Tibbs deserves more credit in New
York than he got, or am I overstating his value?
Speaker 4 (12:42):
I mean back to back fifty plus seasons is not
something to laugh at or anything like that. You know,
when I play, we once always punch down at the Knicks,
you know, they're always Broadway and everything like that.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
But I feel like it is a culture. Now.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Do I wish that they, you know, had a little
bit tibslet like go to his bench a little bit more,
or could the front office bring, you know, a better
bench to fill out so they could obviously play and
have a little bit more diverse of interaction. Because when
guys are playing against the Pacers who haven't played all
season long, they don't have that rhythm, they don't have
(13:16):
that grind, they don't have that foundation that they've done
this in the past with their teammates. Now the nixt
I mean now no offense, I feel like a little
bit too much leash was given away, you know, Jalen
Brunson was too much one on one and it was
just it was it was not a good cohesive group
on offense. To really feel like, you know, they could
win a championship, it has to be done by a group.
(13:37):
And I feel like maybe some change is needed there,
a different offensive change. Hopefully that defense can translate over
because I mean, if they didn't have some turnovers, they
could have gone a different way. The Pacers could have
lost some of those games if we didn't have Halliburton's
you know, not antiics but superhero antics at the end
of the game. But I think that it might be
time for a different offensive coach. But I like what
(13:59):
he did there the time he was there.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Roy Hibbert, two time All Star with the Pacers, All
defensive guy, great senior, Roy, I appreciate you taking time
for us.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Appreciate it. You have a good one.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah. I think Indiana's talent, it's not they don't have
as many top end rotational players. But Halliburton, Miles Turner say, okam,
those are good players. Those are big time players. And
Obie toppin the former Nick is insanely long and athletic,
so when he's hitting threes, I think Indiana's talent. You
(14:33):
don't mow through Milwaukee, Cleveland mow through them without talent.
And also, you know again, ok C, I think is
one of the youngest teams in the league, second or
third youngest team. Young teams trying to close out a series,
even at home. That's why Denver was scary. Denver's been
(14:54):
in these wars Oklahoma City. There's a big difference between
winning game two, win three, game four, and a game
six to win the championship. You look at that Boston
team before they won, and they had veterans, they got tight.
You're like, I don't know, but so Denver was a
great example of Denver played much looser against Oklahoma City.
(15:17):
They just weren't very good defensively. They didn't have the depth.
It became at times kind of a one man offense.
I think Indiana's gonna hang. I think tonight at home.
You know, Siakham has always been good. We're just talking
about him now. J Mack. I'm taking the points I
(15:38):
talked to huh, yeah, I'm gonna take the points.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
I'm surprised Pacers are five and a half point dogs.
People just think Oklahoma City's is juggernaut and they have
led for all but two minutes.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
So far through the first two games.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Right, Well, what they've done is what nobody else could
consistently do. They've slowed the pace. So when you have
great defensive teams, this is I said, when the Seahawks
had that great young defen and they embarrassed Peyton Manning,
they make you uncomfortable. So the Pacers were able to
make Milwaukee uncomfortable with their pace, Cleveland uncomfortable, the Nick's uncomfortable.
Oklahoma City has reversed it. They're taking away and changing
(16:13):
the pace. So that tells you it's a historically great defense.
But I think at home, I'm gonna take the Pacers.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
What are you more.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
Excited for your dinner with the Chicago Bears person that
you have yet to be named, or Pacers Thunder game three?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Be honest, Bear's Bear's employee.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Yeah, I mean, my son's promoting from eighth grade to
ninth grade, and I'm way.
Speaker 6 (16:32):
More fired up about that than I am Game three
of the fight.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
Now, if with Lebron Curry, I'm gonna have to skip
the celebration of my son to watch two legends in
the finals.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
But Thunder Pacers one more Heard. The Herd streams twenty
four hours a day, seven days a week within the
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whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Alexi Lala stopping Bay one year until the FIFA World Cup,
A discouraging four nothing loss to the Swiss. Last night,
Jmack with a news turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
This is the Herd line news.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
You guys can tell when caw Hurt gets all worked up.
The look on his.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Face just laughing at our soccer team. Well, he's gonna
laugh at this list from Chris Simms, because everybody's favorite
NBC sports analyst has now ranked the top ten quarterbacks
heading in the next season. He has Lamar Jackson one,
Josh Allen two whatever if you I would flip those,
but it doesn't matter. He had Joe Burrow three, Patrick
Mahomes four. I don't totally disagree with that Mahome's line,
(17:43):
and four is gonna get some people worked up.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
Simms went on to say that mahomes.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Quarterback play weekend and week out has not been at
a high level. I mean, I've been saying that on
the show for two years. What really got my goat
Collins is. Chris Simms had Jalen Hurts, who was just
the MVP of the Super Bowl at behind Baker Mayfield,
Justin Herbert, C. J.
Speaker 6 (18:03):
Stroud, Matt Stafford, and Jayden Daniels.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
Yeah, that's comical. I'm sorry, Chris, that's lappable.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
No, that's right where I have Jalen Hurts as well.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
Ten.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
When you look at the weakness of the Eagles, it's
their passing game. That's the weakness. PFF did a breakdown
of every team in the league. Strength, weakness, the weakness.
Greg Kosel has been saying this now for two years.
Jalen's not great from the pocket, which is where I
want my quarterback to throw from. There's no question.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Now.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
He squats six hundred and fifty pounds pound for pound,
he's the strongest quarterback probably in league history. He is not.
We gotta be honest with this. If you're under six
to two, sometimes the pocket is not your ally, and
he is a shorter He is a shorter quarterback than ideal.
That's exact when the weakness of your team is the
(18:58):
passing game. And by the way, they have the best
offensive line in the league, so they have everything built
to have a great passing game. AJ Brown, Davonte Smith,
best left tackle arguably in football, sa Kwon Barkley to
take the pressure off a quarter They're literally built to
have the best passing game in the league, and it's
the team weakness. I don't think there's any question I
(19:19):
would take Baker over Jalen if it was one throw
in a football game.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
We want to throw drug test to you right now,
Baker over Jalen Hurts. That's insanity, Colin, So listen. I
like pro football focused as much as the next guy.
Speaker 6 (19:30):
But when did it.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
Become the Bible where it's like, oh, well Pfat said this,
so it's got.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
To be true, and like there's different interpretations.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
I guarantee you tonight you're big swanky dinner okay with
the Chicago Bears, brass. Why don't you ask them? Hey, guys,
give me some of the toughest quarterbacks to game plan for,
and I guarantee you Jalen Hurts is in the top
live again because you can't stop the run, you can't
stop the tush bush and he's also very accurate thrower
against zone and man, yeah, you like small quarter Jalen
(20:01):
Hurts is small.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Well no, I mean, yeah, Jalen Hurts is compared to
Herbert Stroud, Josh Allen, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, big Ben,
Dan Marino is small. Yes, he's like five or ozone
and a half. He's small.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
Oh dear, So you know, just I hate to puncture
your argument like this, but we had this last week.
Jalen Hurts in the pocket only six foot two. I
guess he doesn't get a lot of balls battered down
at the line. He crushes from the pocket. He puts
the ball wherever he wants to. He can make it
rain against any secondary in the league.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Okay, would you argue they have one of the best
I mean, is there an argument if I said wide
receiver tight end skill that the Eagles run an elite
class of I mean they don't have t Higgins, Jamar Chase,
but AJ Brown and Devonte Smith's that's a pretty good group.
Ye five. Sure, yeah, And would you think that they
(20:56):
have one of the best offensive lines for protection in
the league? The best? That's reasonable. They Jalen Hurts during
the regular season through for under two hundred yards a game.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
Well, when they're.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
Blasting teams because nobody can stop their offense.
Speaker 6 (21:12):
Who cares? What is this a passing yards thing? Well,
Baker Mayfield has more passing yards better you.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
You often use brock Perty's passing yards to augment how
good he is. The boy, look at he is putting
up the numbers. It means something.
Speaker 6 (21:27):
Hey, I like the postseason success.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
Brock Perty's had more postseason success than Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
So his Jalen Hurts and you're just like yourself.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
This tomorrow, every GM can have c J. Strouder, Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
Oh, I'm taking Hurts a heartbeat.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I'm taking Stroud and a heartbeat, and.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I'm beating you.
Speaker 6 (21:45):
You know my team is better?
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Uh boy? These are fun offseason discussions. The staff remember
Jalen Hurts flash point.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
I can argue that all day.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
That's fun.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
All right, let's move on to the NBA. Colin Kevin Durant,
I don't know. They keep saying he's going to be moved.
Brian Winhorse says it's coming before the draft. You're reading stuff.
I'm pretty sure all of this is planted by Durant
sky Rich Cleman. The Knicks are interested by the way
Shams is tight with Rich Climban go look at all
the Noosi's broke on him. I mean, you don't have
(22:14):
to be a you know, a superstar math major to
realize Oh look, let me connect the dots. Everything coming
from Shams is planted by Katie's camp, which is why
we're hearing Rockets and Spurs. Now we're hearing Timberwolves, We're
even hearing heat. Kevin Durant wants out badly. He wants
to get it done before Yannis. He doesn't want to
(22:36):
have to wait and Colin, there are some odds here
on his next team.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
The Spurs are now minus one sixty.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
Now you cannot lay the lumber on this personally, I
would would you trade for Kevin Durant at thirty seven
or Yannis in his prime?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Like now?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
In so sense, yeah, Yannis is yeah. I mean he's
a wildly productive on both ends. But you're not going
to have to give up as much to get Kevin Durant.
And I think there's those teams on that list, like
the Rockets, Nicks and t Wolves feel like they need
to tweak, not an overhaul, So those are good teams. Spurs,
(23:14):
I don't know. I think KD is about as good
a guy as you can break. He doesn't have a
huge ego, he doesn't need the ball in his hands.
He's highly effective. He still gives you twenty five. I
gotta no. I'm a i'm a KD guy, so I
I like him.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
You like arguing online with social media random people like
all the time, and it's not delivering the playoffs lately.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
It doesn't matter. I don't care that he does. That
doesn't bother me. I KD is actually pretty social online.
I'm not. It's not my game, but it doesn't bother me.
There are a lot of people in the celebrity space
that are active on their you know, TikTok and e ig.
I'm not a lot of people are. I'm not going
(23:55):
to blame somebody much younger than me for that.
Speaker 6 (23:58):
Final story.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
Con Made League Baseball, the Dodgers are starting to show
kind of some chinks in the armor here in the
pitching staff.
Speaker 6 (24:07):
It's not looking good at all. But there is good news.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
On The Horizon Show, Hey Otani pitched a three inning
simulated game yesterday. Colin Dave Roberts Sole reporters Otani is
nearing return, and he wouldn't rule out Otani pitching before
the All Star Game next month.
Speaker 6 (24:25):
That is shocking to me. And here's why.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
Look at the Dodgers' pitching staff this season. You are
seeing just not good. I mean, they are bottom ten
in many of these stats. That's a bit of a surprise.
You love this team coming in Colin a little underwhelming
so farth well, I.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Mean, I think everybody loved it, but they had you know,
they're playing by a different set of parameters because of
their financial gap in the system. So I mean, they
brought in some pitchers who had a history of injuries.
They're all about August, September and October the Dodgers. It's
just different, so.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
You know, and.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
The regular season is long. They're all about getting Snell
and the kid from is the class now, you know Otani, Yeah,
this is this is all about September. I think they'll
be fine. You know, the last couple of years they've
had these sort of sort of soft three week stretches
and it's almost oh, has been a lack of available arms.
(25:24):
So I feel like we're just kind of going through
the same I mean, these seasons are so long. I
don't I don't. I mean, even in the NFL, they're
going to eighteen games. Probably by next year. How valuable
will September be? You know it used to be. If
you're oh and two, you can don't make the playoffs
in an eighteen game schedule, it's just not gonna matter.
I mean even in college football, Ohio State lost at
(25:45):
home is a huge favorite of Michigan. They made the
playoffs in woninnaty. So I just thinks the longer the season,
these these minor disruptions don't matter as much.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
And their pitching was dominant against the Yankees in the
World Series.
Speaker 6 (25:59):
They just haven't look that. Is this a little bit
of the Celtics? Remember the Celtics won the title and.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
Then it kind of went through the motions at times
this year they got passed by the Calves in the East.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
Is there a little of that at place?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
I mean, if you kind of look at the big
picture of baseball, like Detroit's been surprisingly good, Like Detroit's
been really good. And there's a couple of teams like
the Yankees that are a marginal threat. But if you
stack the roster and they're healthy, nobody's beating this team.
Nobody's beating the Dodgers. Jmack of the News well that's the.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
News, and thanks for stopping by the herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
You know what I was thinking about this. I love
mystery when it comes to like a true crime series.
I don't love mystery with my quarterbacks. Remember the Jordan
Love were like, we didn't see video for three years.
I saw this. I know it's just a Minnesota Vikings
fan page. I understand I'm not going crazy here, but
JJ McCarthy threw a pick for a third straight day.
(27:02):
I'm just I haven't, I haven't.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
My two questions are, I've seen one preseason game. He
was good in it, by the way, eleven to seventeen,
one hundred and ninety yards, a couple of touchdowns, passer
rating like one. He was very good. I saw the highlights,
didn't watch the game live, saw the highlights, was very good.
Then you get the two surgeries. So we don't know
what he is, but it is there's so much mystery here.
Why does Minnesota keep flirting without our quarterbacks? And there's
(27:27):
too many conflicting reports on JJ McCarthy, so I just
find the whole thing. There's a lot of stuff I
just don't know. I feel sometimes I'm getting I'm getting
a little bit of a spin job here. You know,
I will say this is and I think j Mac,
you and I have had this discussion to be a
great franchise quarterback. And again I think Jalen Hurts is
(27:50):
probably ten best in the league. But I do think
he's he's a top ten franchise quarterback. If you're top
ten in a league of thirty two teams, you're good.
There's got to be a trait, has to be a
wow trait. So let's just go through them. Mahomes arm, talent,
Alan Sheer, force of size, Lamar athletic ability. Stafford has
(28:11):
one of the great arms in the last thirty years
in the league. He's got a magical arm, burrow, composure,
and accuracy like as good as Brady in his prime.
If you look at the numbers and analytics, Herbert big,
strong power arm, c J. Stroud Accuracy like just I mean,
moving left, moving right, moving forward.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
C J.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Stroud's accuracies since high school's insane. Hurts strength pound for pounds,
six hundred pound squads, Kyler Murray, elusiveness. You start stacking
up these quarterbacks, there's there's a trait like Elway arm,
Marino arm, Aaron Rodgers arm release, what is Go back
(28:52):
and look at the people I trust. There's one, one
or two things I never buy. I never buy this.
When you say is about a quarterback, that guy is
a winner. Everybody under Jim Harbaugh and Steve Spurrier and
Nick Saban's a winner. I don't want to hear that.
If you go back and look, his arm is modest,
(29:13):
his escapability is modest. His release wasn't super quick. There
is no great trait. That's why I was always a
Donald fan. Donald is tough with a big arm. He
can be reckless, but there are times you watch Donald
his ability to make big throws while moving is special.
(29:35):
I don't get McCarthy's wow trait.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
Now.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I like Jordan Love, but I think Jordan Love has
an incredible arm, he's got a whip, and he's also
super athletic. I don't see the wow. There's gotta be
one thing where I'm like, oh, it's always been my
knock on purty. Now perty they say cognitively he's like
Superman above the shoulders. Maybe that's it, but where's the
wow with this guy?
Speaker 5 (29:58):
I was gonna ask you, like party coming out of
Iowa state, there was no wow.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
He gets to the NFL and his processing is wow.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
So can we see McCarthy play a real game, not
just preseason not odas. Can we can we see him
like play a real game? Maybe a trait will emerge?
And he was a pretty mobile quarterback, obviously not Josh Allen. Okay,
but I mean how about this. There isn't anything he
doesn't do well. He has a big arm, he's mobile,
(30:25):
he can process.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
He shouldowed everything he did. Go go read this scout.
He doesn't have a big arm. He does not have a.
Speaker 6 (30:31):
Big good enough arm, good enough NFL he has.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
His arm is considered modest. It is a middle of
the pack arm, middle of the pack of capability. In fact,
they question his release. His release at times could be
a little plotting, which was always a darnold knock and
you have to work on that. You could get better
at that. There is no go go look at all
the guys the Lanceur lines, and these are guys that
are fans. It's a lot of that guy is a winner.
(30:55):
He plays with a chip on his shoulder. I could
say that about Johnny Manziel and Tim Tebow. Tim Tebow
and Johnny Mandel. I mean, remember the Tim Tebow's speech
after they lost at home to Old Miss, We'll never
lose again. I do not buy winner. What does that mean?
Everybody the Alabama Ohio State wins. What does that mean?
Speaker 6 (31:11):
Maybe this is better?
Speaker 5 (31:12):
He got the stamp of approval from Jim Harball and
Kevin O'Connell.
Speaker 6 (31:17):
Does that mean anything to you? I mean, you love
these guys, you hype them up.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
By the way, I heard a lot of people tell
me how all the scouts loved him. People moved up
for Pennix and then, well, wait, I don't care.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
About the scouts.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
I care about Jim Harball and established great coach, and
Kevin O'Connell one of the best young coaches in the league.
Speaker 6 (31:35):
I care about them. No disrespect to your scouts more
than scouts. Doesn't that mean anything to you? When Jim
Harball's like, yeah, I love this for.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Kevin O'Connell understands the value of words. He is not
going to criticize JJ McCarthy. So you've got to understand that.
When's the last time a offensive head coach criticized I
mean Brian Callahan and Will Levis, he couldn't stand him
by and large, you say nice stuff. I mean that
that you forget.
Speaker 5 (32:03):
About the words. How about the actions he did? He
they may have considered. How about Rogers they may have
considered Daniels, how about the JJ? How about these actions?
Speaker 1 (32:13):
They wanted to re sign Sam Darnold, Well like they
didn't though, but they wanted to, but it got to crises.
Well the people from people I trust. I mean again,
it's I don't want to hear about guys being winners.
I'm not into every Ohio state quarterback in my life's
been a winner. Spurrier was down in Florida, Rex Grossman
(32:33):
had some real arm talent, but they were all winners.
Danny Wirfel was a winner. What does that mean to
that guy?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Huh?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Love that guy?
Speaker 6 (32:43):
They were fun in the nineties.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in newone Easter not a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (32:54):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern. But here's the thing, we
never have enough time to get to everything we want
to get to.
Speaker 8 (33:02):
And that's why we have a brand new podcast called
over promised. You see, we're having so much fun in
our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for. Yeah, you blubber list lame me.
Speaker 7 (33:17):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 8 (33:21):
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 7 (33:35):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also uncensored by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 8 (33:45):
There you go, over promising, and remember you could see
it on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised
with Covino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
One year from today, the biggest FIFA World Cup ever
comes to North America and the countdown starts with a
one year to Go party live from Miami Friday at
eight seventh Central on Fox.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah, so you know last night was an abomination. Now again,
the Gold Cup starts this weekend and it matters. They're
sixteen countries and it means something. But when Christian Polistic said,
hey man, I've gone back to back years ac Milan
fifty matches, I'm taking a break. When he doesn't play,
turn the sound down. We don't look the same. He's
(34:35):
our most creative, most skilled player. And you can talk
about Weston McKinney and g o'raina, all these guys. It
doesn't matter. Polistic's the star. He drives the bus for
our offense. And when he's not playing, we're not the
same team attacking. We just don't look the same. So
Tyler Adams is all banged up, no question, we're better
(34:58):
than four nothing at halftime. But what I think last
night did show that regardless of what coach we have
in we have a new coach now from Europe. He
loves young talent and the bottom line is he didn't
inspire Polisic, who's a little fatigued to even play. Some
of these guys are banged up. They could play it,
they chose not to. So is that impending dread? I
(35:21):
don't know, But in twenty three minutes to give up
four goals shows you how thin our talent pool is. Now. Listen,
other countries don't have the NFL and the NBA and
Major League Baseball. But we're also a very large country.
But our best athletes do not play soccer. That is
without question, that is true. The best athletes in Brazil,
(35:42):
where's the money soccer? Our best athletes in America, where's
the money? NBA, Baseball, NFL and then maybe soccer. So
our best players go to Europe. Europe's best players don't
come to the MLS. So it's just I do think,
and I've said this, I think it's the strongest group
(36:02):
of skilled young American talent of my life. And what
last night proves is the gap between that and our
second tier is the Grand Canyon. We just don't have. Again,
we have about six really really good players that I
really like, and they're noticeably different. In Spain may have
(36:23):
thirteen and England may have eleven, and so our gap
when Christian politic or Weston McKinney does not play, it
is noticeable. And here was DeMarcus Beasley trailing for nothing,
which would be the final score. Here he was at
half last night. I've never seen a US team play
that and a half a football team.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
And forget not being good enough what they I mean
they didn't put in a tackle. I'm not saying that
they don't want to play the game, but you have.
Speaker 6 (36:52):
This is your chance to be to make a World
Cups fives.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
This is your Jedd.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
There's no politic, there's no West mckinnay, the no one.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
This is your time to step up and put on
that book for forty five minutes. Terrible, And this is
I've been on this for years. It's always the coach,
because you can fire the coach. And I defended Greg Berholter.
I mean the fact that we held England scoreless and
that we gave up one goal in the group stage
in the World Cup was pretty redeemable. And then we
(37:21):
played the Netherlands and we were just totally outclassed because
they had much older, more experienced players. But even that
game was encouraging. It's like, okay, that's the standard. The
Netherlands can win a World Cup or certainly compete. We can't.
But in four years when it's on us soil, can
we grow? And the feeling is yes. But maybe one
(37:41):
of the downsides, and I'll ask Alexi lawleas next hour,
is that more and more of our great players are
going to Europe. Maybe we have to pivot and transition
away from the Gold Cup. Is that as now as
our best players are facing very rigorous overseas Europe in competition.
That's what Pulisic is arguing, is that the standards changed.
(38:06):
It's about making money overseas and then the World Cup,
and that maybe Christian Pulisic is onto something that we
as Americans can't get into the Gold Cup. It just
doesn't matter anymore. If you want our star, if you
want America to attract the best stars, then they've got
to be able to go over and make a ton
of money in Europe and not worry and piddle around
with the MLS. Sorry, when's the last mL MLS? Once
(38:28):
they signed that Apple contract, Apple TV contract, don't don't.
I don't watch as much. It's just it feels like
the league is less of a league than it was
three or four years ago and the money's in Europe,
so maybe it's just a different time now that the
Gold Cup just it just doesn't matter as much. It's
about making money in Europe and the World Cup and
being healthy for that. That is possible. But sixteen teams
(38:51):
competing in the Gold Cup. I always felt like we
were top two or three and if this is the
group Jmac, it's just not encouraging. Four goals twenty three
minutes is disheartening. And again this is a coach known
in Tottenham of developing very quickly young players. Well here's
our young guys and that was a mess.
Speaker 5 (39:12):
So I guess you know, I will concede two points.
Speaker 6 (39:15):
Number one, the team seems to.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Lack an identity without Polisic on the field, as you
alluded to, I don't know what they were. They were
just a collection of dudes last night, not passing working together.
They looked like they hadn't had many practices together. And
the second one colin that they lack is momentum. You
remember last year leaving or the last World Cup cycle,
Canada had all the momentum in the world. They were
playing great, then they got smoked in the World Cup.
(39:38):
So maybe momentum doesn't mean much. But with the Gold
Cup this weekend and for us to kind of oh jeez,
this was like alarming.
Speaker 6 (39:46):
This was troubling, and you don't have an identity or momentum.
I'm not going to go over there.
Speaker 5 (39:52):
I'll leave the hot takes for Lawless here shortly.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
In my life, we have always been closer to Italy
than Brazil. We're not highly skilled. We have great goalkeeping,
and if we win against good teams, it's won nothing.
You're right, like I always felt, we were always good
in goal, we had solid coaching, but there was a
way we would win. We're not getting into a shootout
(40:16):
against Argentina or Brazil or Columbia. That's not what we are.
We're not that skilled. We don't have that depth of talent.
We're like an NBA team with no bench. We've got,
you know, we've got some really nice players, and they
were too young for the last World Cup. But when
they again the game against England, you're sitting there thinking
we're not that far away. Then they faced the Netherlands, older,
(40:36):
mature team, more skilled. They found us, and they should
But I but I think what last night showed more
than anything is that our talent pool is very, very thin.
And when you take out Tyler Adams and Western McKinney
and Christian Polisic, we don't have a bench, you miss.
We want to talk ourselves into it, we just don't.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
You're missing our entire midfield, your best attacker, like you
didn't have your World Cup center forward, like I don't.
I just that's the reason. I'm like, all right, you know,
four nothing is a drubbing, but we didn't have our guys.
You know, it'd be like the Nuggets playing without Jokics
or something. You know, if Politic is our Yokis and
he's not that good, but he's.
Speaker 6 (41:13):
Our best guy. I don't know. I'm sure Lallas is
gonna say something like, listen, if.
Speaker 5 (41:18):
We don't get out of the group stage of the
Gold Cup, maybe we move on from the coach that quickly.
I don't know, but we got to show up this week,
and I think we do. I'll call it three nothing
over Trinidad and Tobago.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
That's very it's very uh, you're very optimistic. I mean,
I was just it's just it's one of those where
we have not beaten the European team. What was the
stat since twenty twenty one.
Speaker 6 (41:41):
Yeah, that's that's just hurt. Like seven Masters though, I mean, well.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
It's all for seven. That's something you want to have
to go to Oda's thirteen. I mean, like where do
we have to go? Like it just it just feels
like I don't blame Polisic. The money is is Ac Malong.
The kid's gonna have. He's got generational wealth. He's not
gonna word.
Speaker 5 (42:01):
I mean, after you saw Polisics Dad versus Landon Donovan online,
which was interesting, Landed Donovan kind of ripped Polisic without
saying his name and Landon and politics.
Speaker 6 (42:10):
Dad was like, dude, you did the same thing, you know,
So it's.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
I get it.
Speaker 6 (42:14):
I get it for soccer.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I get our players caring about two things, European money
in the World Cup and not the Gold Cup.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Here we go, it's our number two. All sorts of
stuff happening. Aaron Rodgers is now officially a Pittsburgh Steeler,
and we're gonna go to Roy Herbert, the former All
Defensive Team two time All Star for the Indiana Pacers,
who played tonight at home, getting five and a half points.
I actually think I'll take the points tonight. I do think.
(00:48):
I don't think there's a talent disparity with Indiana Oklahoma City,
which I do. I did feel like there was a
talent disparity between Milwaukee and Indiana or Oklahoma City in Minnesota.
I think Pascal si Okam's an a player, Halliburton's an
a player. Miles Turner is a great rim protector. I
(01:08):
actually like Indiana. I like him at home, and I
think Okay see because of their youth and so many
rotational players is not a great road team. So I'll
take the points with Indy tonight and we'll talk about
that in a second. So you know, you know this
that last year was a great not this pass draft.
The one before was a great draft. Most of those
quarterbacks went to the NFC. Jaden Daniels, Michael Pennix, JJ McCarthy,
(01:32):
Caleb Williams, Bowe Nicks went to the AFC. But the
reason the AFC has been better than the NFC, not
necessarily just the Super Bowl, but overall, is because the
AFC for about a seven year stretch kept hitting on quarterbacks.
And you know C J. Stroud and Herbert and Burrow
and Mahomes and Allen, they just kept hitting and hitting
and hitting on him. So if the young NFC quarterbacks
(01:54):
like Jayden Daniels and Caleb and Pennix, if they can
hit in that draft a couple of years ago, it'll
even things out. But right now, the best quarterbacks in
football are overwhelmingly in the AFC. So now as Aaron
Rodgers goes from the Jets to the Steelers, he stays
in the AFC again with a defensive culture and a
defensive head coach. I let's just stay how good do
(02:18):
we think he is compared to the other Now he's
passed his prime, he's forty one year old. Aaron with
the other AFC quarterbacks, well, I'll just start it with this,
since twenty twenty two, and that includes the last year
in Green Bay, Aaron is not Geno Smith. And I
know you don't want to hear that, but if you
told me I had a game to win, I'd take Geno.
Gino right now moves, he's more mobile, he's pretty close
(02:40):
to his prime. They'll probably a bit out of the prime.
He has a better passer rating, completion percentage, much larger
yards per game, and he's wenty more games. So and
Geno's not in the upper tier of the AFC quarterbacks
in my opinion do I think he's a little undervalued.
But if I went today and you told me best
quarterbacks in the AFC, and maybe my order is not
(03:01):
perfect or to your liking, because I think Burrow last
year honestly was the best quarterback, I'd go Alan Mahomes, Burrow, Lamar,
that's the big four. Nobody disputes. I'd go Herbert C. J.
Stroud and I put Geno seven, and again, when Gino
has a run game in his career in Seattle, he
was good. His passer rating's over one hundred, so we
(03:21):
can say now Gino's Sam Darnold. When he's rattled or
there's pressure, he can be reckless. But if you give
him time and you give him a decent run game,
Gino's fits pretty good quarterback. He's a B plus plus.
And I would put the eighth best quarterback bo Nickx,
who's going into year two with Sean Payton, and I
think bow Knicks is so much more athletic than anybody
(03:41):
wants to give him credit for. His running is a
huge element of that offense. And then number nine, I
think you get Aaron Trevor Lawrence in Tua, where it
kind of just depends on the game. I don't trust
too and bad weather up north. Trevor Lawrence makes too
many mistakes, and Aaron's he is a pocket quarterback, So
that's kind of what you're looking at. Can you make
(04:02):
the playoffs with the ninth best quarterback in the AFC? Absolutely,
especially if your defense is great, But that's kind of
where he's at right now. He's sort of in that
to Trevor Lawrence, Aaron Rodgers. I think that's fair. He's
forty one, he's a strictly a pocket quarterback. And Arthur Smith,
six years coach and coordinators, had one top ten offense.
Remember the Steelers lost their best running back, their left tackling,
(04:22):
their best receiver. No other team in the NFL had
that kind of losses in offensive production. And with that
we bring in Roy Hibbert at the two time All
Star from the Pacers all defensive guy. I want to
start with this when you guys would face the Heatles
and those games were good and they were combative, especially
in Indiana, but there was a sense there was a
(04:42):
big gap in talent, and I would agree mostly if
Bosh was in his prime, waigde probably out of it.
Lebron the best player in the world. I don't think
there's a gap in OKC and Oklahoma City talent like that.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I do think OKASE is deeper, but I think Siakam
and Halliburton are both a players, whereas SGA may be
better than both. But at this point home gruns wildly inconsistent.
What to you the talent between OKAC and Indy? Where
are you on it.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
To be honest with you, I'm kind of where you
are are right now. Both of these teams have kind
of figured out their identity and they do it in
a group setting.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Okayc really does it with their defense on the and
everybody has a part of it.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Sga, you know, really gets his hands in.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
They're trying to get a lot of loose balls and
it propels their offense as well. So defense propelling their offense.
Now with the Pacers, I don't overmatch. Their identity is
so much different than my team's identity. We did it
through defense and getting stops at the rim myself, David West,
and obviously Paul George and Land Stevenson and George Hill
in the perimeter. But this team plays a touch pace
(05:52):
and that's their identity and they got to get in
the fast break point says, just to cover that difference
that OKAC brings on the on the defensive end. Nine
fast break points last game. That to me is unacceptable.
This is a team that even on a loss in
Game three against the Knicks, they had sixteen in a
six point loss. So that is there and that's where
the magic happens. And Halliburton, to me is a focal
(06:14):
point here. And I'm not sure if from answering your question,
but I would like to see tonight, in tonight's game,
Halliburton take it upon himself to maybe take two or
three more shots that may be not the right place
because he's such a good, unselfish player that sometimes to
his own detriment. I think his teammates would be okay
if he took a couple extra shots where he looked
people off and try to push the pace, get an
(06:35):
and one at the rim, kind of change the pace.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Because Indiana at Gainesbridge they go crazy. This is all
we have.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
We have cults and we have basketball, and that's basically
I think what can help him win tonight?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
When did you realize, Halliburton? And by the way, most
of the guys coming into the league are eighteen, nineteen,
twenty years old, so it's not like the NFL, where
a college kids had four years in a college weight room.
A lot of NFL players come into the league either
you know, engaged, are married, and they also know their
careers are shorter. So NFL guys come in more adult.
(07:06):
These NBA guys are still developing. You don't know what
you have when did you first think Halliburton. Was there
a moment Roy for you that you thought, oh wow,
oh wow, this this could be a star in this league.
Was it two years ago when was your first thought
that this kid just wasn't a good, gangly young point guard.
He was something different.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
I think, you know, it's slowly built and it's the
way I felt that a star was being born, but
a different one, a different one where he doesn't need
to take all the shots anymore. So I think in
the last two three years, he's really, you know, caught
the attention to everybody Indiana, maybe not national wise, but
the amazing the last two years, just the way how
they played. The Pacers had gotten better and better and better.
(07:48):
And he's not selfish. This team is not selfish at all.
Pascal Siakam last year came in halfway through in the
season with a great trade.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
It was able to fit right in.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
And you know, some of those best players like Lebron
during that heat time, everybody has to sacrifice, and to me,
a true leader willing to sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah. The you know, it's interesting with Indiana, their pace
of play. The NBA has decided we're gonna let you
be very physical, and I think in seven game series
it can be problematic. I think it actually is. Why
New York beat Boston is that New York came in
and they're they they want to make it muddy and
(08:26):
ugly and physical, and they're built for it. When you
look at Indiana and their pace and their style, do
you think it age as well? Is this is this just?
I mean, Denver looked like the best team in the
world and then a year later Denver can't win a
second or third playoff series. Does Indiana age well? Do
they keep Turner? Does this style age well?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
I think they should keep Turner.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
He's well on his way to become one of the
best pacer I think centers uh in history. With his
amount of winds he's had, I think he should have
been an All Star at this point time. But the
way hell they play, I think if they're able to
continue to have a good bench now, I think their
bench wasn't as good as okay C's bench last time.
But when you got when you have Obie Topp and
you know who could hit you know, five threes in
(09:13):
a game and give you seventeen points. When he starts
off the game with three bad turnovers in Game one
and in still be able to finish strong. When you
have TJ McConnell, who's like an undersized guard. The plays
defense really hard from picking up the top of the
key and then also pushing the pace. He got Jalen
Brunson in a lot of foul trouble in games three
and four against that New York Knicks team. So I
(09:33):
think you have that core, and then you keep building
around getting good, smart pieces that fit.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
I think the team could age pretty well.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I gotta ask you about Cooper Flag. So you played
several years with the Georgetown Hoyas. You were of two
time first team All Biggie, So you played a lot
of college basketball. That's just not the world we live
in anymore, although the NIL is keeping guys in a
little longer. When you watch Cooper Flag, go back to
your first nest year in the NBA. What is Cooper
Flag's number one challenge gonna be from dominant college player
(10:07):
to NBA player? What is going to be a smack
in the face? What is going to be tough?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
All right?
Speaker 4 (10:13):
So for me, I would initially say the physicality, but
having seen him play against USA players and NBA type
players and have viral moments where he like embarrasses some
NBA talent. I don't think that's going to be an
issue for me. It's just gonna figure out, you know,
his place in like on the team. When you know
(10:34):
they say when Kyrie gets back, where is he gonna
fill in? Is Kyrie gonna be able to you know
who's who's known as an alpha? Is he going to
be able to fit in well with him? Which I
assume they do, they have that due connection. But he
can go in like ten to twenty game stretches where
he's playing well then and then and then and I
mean ad gets hurt.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Now he has to take over.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
So finding his place every couple of games is probably
gonna be the biggest thing in terms of because they
have two alphas right there and then. And also to me,
is it's finding a three point shot consistently. He took
three shots in the three pointers per game last year,
so I feel he's going to be a lot more open.
And if he doesn't see a couple go in as
a rookie, that could really mess with your mind saying that,
(11:14):
you know what I did last year was so successful
and now have two three games where I'm missing him,
and then the three point shot is such a big
shot in the NBA. I think that's going to be
a happy medium right there for him to try to
find the perfect setting.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I can go back to even the seventies and the
NBA roy has been a players league. But I do
think the x's and o's matter, but culture matters. So
when Mark Jackson left and Steve Kerr arrived, it went
from a defensive culture. It probably benefited Played Thompson and
Steph it was more of an offensive culture. I think
(11:46):
Eric Skolstra. Eric Spolstra has always demanded you play defense Popovich.
So when the Knicks fired Tibbs, now multiple teams have
said you can't, you can't draft our players, you can't
interview our coach. And I look at the Knicks. I
like their talent. I don't love it. I like it,
but I would argue this, they were Villanova in New York.
(12:11):
They were tough, they were scrappy, and that was created
by Tibbs. Am I overvaluing tibbs effect on the Knicks
because I look at their culture and I think I
love Brunson, But some of it is when I think
of the Knicks. I'm like, if you had to guess,
you'd be like, oh, that's a Tibbs team. The way
they play, the minutes of their starters, their physical I
(12:35):
don't know. I think Tibbs deserves more credit in New
York than he got, or am I overstating his value?
Speaker 4 (12:42):
I mean back to back fifty plus seasons is not
something to laugh at or anything like that. You know,
when I play, we once always punch down at the Knicks,
you know, they're always Broadway and everything like that.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
But I feel like it is a culture. Now.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Do I wish that they, you know, had a little
bit tibslet like go to his bench a little bit more,
or could the front office bring, you know, a better
bench to fill out so they could obviously play and
have a little bit more diverse of interaction. Because when
guys are playing against the Pacers who haven't played all
season long, they don't have that rhythm, they don't have
(13:16):
that grind, they don't have that foundation that they've done
this in the past with their teammates. Now the nixt
I mean now no offense, I feel like a little
bit too much leash was given away, you know, Jalen
Brunson was too much one on one and it was
just it was it was not a good cohesive group
on offense. To really feel like, you know, they could
win a championship, it has to be done by a group.
(13:37):
And I feel like maybe some change is needed there,
a different offensive change. Hopefully that defense can translate over
because I mean, if they didn't have some turnovers, they
could have gone a different way. The Pacers could have
lost some of those games if we didn't have Halliburton's
you know, not antiics but superhero antics at the end
of the game. But I think that it might be
time for a different offensive coach. But I like what
(13:59):
he did there the time he was there.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Roy Hibbert, two time All Star with the Pacers, All
defensive guy, great senior, Roy, I appreciate you taking time
for us.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Appreciate it. You have a good one.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah. I think Indiana's talent, it's not they don't have
as many top end rotational players. But Halliburton, Miles Turner say, okam,
those are good players. Those are big time players. And
Obie toppin the former Nick is insanely long and athletic,
so when he's hitting threes, I think Indiana's talent. You
(14:33):
don't mow through Milwaukee, Cleveland mow through them without talent.
And also, you know again, ok C, I think is
one of the youngest teams in the league, second or
third youngest team. Young teams trying to close out a series,
even at home. That's why Denver was scary. Denver's been
(14:54):
in these wars Oklahoma City. There's a big difference between
winning game two, win three, game four, and a game
six to win the championship. You look at that Boston
team before they won, and they had veterans, they got tight.
You're like, I don't know, but so Denver was a
great example of Denver played much looser against Oklahoma City.
(15:17):
They just weren't very good defensively. They didn't have the depth.
It became at times kind of a one man offense.
I think Indiana's gonna hang. I think tonight at home.
You know, Siakham has always been good. We're just talking
about him now. J Mack. I'm taking the points I
(15:38):
talked to huh, yeah, I'm gonna take the points.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
I'm surprised Pacers are five and a half point dogs.
People just think Oklahoma City's is juggernaut and they have
led for all but two minutes.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
So far through the first two games.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Right, Well, what they've done is what nobody else could
consistently do. They've slowed the pace. So when you have
great defensive teams, this is I said, when the Seahawks
had that great young defen and they embarrassed Peyton Manning,
they make you uncomfortable. So the Pacers were able to
make Milwaukee uncomfortable with their pace, Cleveland uncomfortable, the Nick's uncomfortable.
Oklahoma City has reversed it. They're taking away and changing
(16:13):
the pace. So that tells you it's a historically great defense.
But I think at home, I'm gonna take the Pacers.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
What are you more.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
Excited for your dinner with the Chicago Bears person that
you have yet to be named, or Pacers Thunder game three?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Be honest, Bear's Bear's employee.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Yeah, I mean, my son's promoting from eighth grade to
ninth grade, and I'm way.
Speaker 6 (16:32):
More fired up about that than I am Game three
of the fight.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
Now, if with Lebron Curry, I'm gonna have to skip
the celebration of my son to watch two legends in
the finals.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
But Thunder Pacers one more Heard. The Herd streams twenty
four hours a day, seven days a week within the
iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand
whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Alexi Lala stopping Bay one year until the FIFA World Cup,
A discouraging four nothing loss to the Swiss. Last night,
Jmack with a news turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
This is the Herd line news.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
You guys can tell when caw Hurt gets all worked up.
The look on his.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Face just laughing at our soccer team. Well, he's gonna
laugh at this list from Chris Simms, because everybody's favorite
NBC sports analyst has now ranked the top ten quarterbacks
heading in the next season. He has Lamar Jackson one,
Josh Allen two whatever if you I would flip those,
but it doesn't matter. He had Joe Burrow three, Patrick
Mahomes four. I don't totally disagree with that Mahome's line,
(17:43):
and four is gonna get some people worked up.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
Simms went on to say that mahomes.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Quarterback play weekend and week out has not been at
a high level. I mean, I've been saying that on
the show for two years. What really got my goat
Collins is. Chris Simms had Jalen Hurts, who was just
the MVP of the Super Bowl at behind Baker Mayfield,
Justin Herbert, C. J.
Speaker 6 (18:03):
Stroud, Matt Stafford, and Jayden Daniels.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
Yeah, that's comical. I'm sorry, Chris, that's lappable.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
No, that's right where I have Jalen Hurts as well.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
Ten.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
When you look at the weakness of the Eagles, it's
their passing game. That's the weakness. PFF did a breakdown
of every team in the league. Strength, weakness, the weakness.
Greg Kosel has been saying this now for two years.
Jalen's not great from the pocket, which is where I
want my quarterback to throw from. There's no question.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Now.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
He squats six hundred and fifty pounds pound for pound,
he's the strongest quarterback probably in league history. He is not.
We gotta be honest with this. If you're under six
to two, sometimes the pocket is not your ally, and
he is a shorter He is a shorter quarterback than ideal.
That's exact when the weakness of your team is the
(18:58):
passing game. And by the way, they have the best
offensive line in the league, so they have everything built
to have a great passing game. AJ Brown, Davonte Smith,
best left tackle arguably in football, sa Kwon Barkley to
take the pressure off a quarter They're literally built to
have the best passing game in the league, and it's
the team weakness. I don't think there's any question I
(19:19):
would take Baker over Jalen if it was one throw
in a football game.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
We want to throw drug test to you right now,
Baker over Jalen Hurts. That's insanity, Colin, So listen. I
like pro football focused as much as the next guy.
Speaker 6 (19:30):
But when did it.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
Become the Bible where it's like, oh, well Pfat said this,
so it's got.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
To be true, and like there's different interpretations.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
I guarantee you tonight you're big swanky dinner okay with
the Chicago Bears, brass. Why don't you ask them? Hey, guys,
give me some of the toughest quarterbacks to game plan for,
and I guarantee you Jalen Hurts is in the top
live again because you can't stop the run, you can't
stop the tush bush and he's also very accurate thrower
against zone and man, yeah, you like small quarter Jalen
(20:01):
Hurts is small.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Well no, I mean, yeah, Jalen Hurts is compared to
Herbert Stroud, Josh Allen, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, big Ben,
Dan Marino is small. Yes, he's like five or ozone
and a half. He's small.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
Oh dear, So you know, just I hate to puncture
your argument like this, but we had this last week.
Jalen Hurts in the pocket only six foot two. I
guess he doesn't get a lot of balls battered down
at the line. He crushes from the pocket. He puts
the ball wherever he wants to. He can make it
rain against any secondary in the league.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Okay, would you argue they have one of the best
I mean, is there an argument if I said wide
receiver tight end skill that the Eagles run an elite
class of I mean they don't have t Higgins, Jamar Chase,
but AJ Brown and Devonte Smith's that's a pretty good group.
Ye five. Sure, yeah, And would you think that they
(20:56):
have one of the best offensive lines for protection in
the league? The best? That's reasonable. They Jalen Hurts during
the regular season through for under two hundred yards a game.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
Well, when they're.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
Blasting teams because nobody can stop their offense.
Speaker 6 (21:12):
Who cares? What is this a passing yards thing? Well,
Baker Mayfield has more passing yards better you.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
You often use brock Perty's passing yards to augment how
good he is. The boy, look at he is putting
up the numbers. It means something.
Speaker 6 (21:27):
Hey, I like the postseason success.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
Brock Perty's had more postseason success than Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
So his Jalen Hurts and you're just like yourself.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
This tomorrow, every GM can have c J. Strouder, Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
Oh, I'm taking Hurts a heartbeat.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I'm taking Stroud and a heartbeat, and.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I'm beating you.
Speaker 6 (21:45):
You know my team is better?
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Uh boy? These are fun offseason discussions. The staff remember
Jalen Hurts flash point.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
I can argue that all day.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
That's fun.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
All right, let's move on to the NBA. Colin Kevin Durant,
I don't know. They keep saying he's going to be moved.
Brian Winhorse says it's coming before the draft. You're reading stuff.
I'm pretty sure all of this is planted by Durant
sky Rich Cleman. The Knicks are interested by the way
Shams is tight with Rich Climban go look at all
the Noosi's broke on him. I mean, you don't have
(22:14):
to be a you know, a superstar math major to
realize Oh look, let me connect the dots. Everything coming
from Shams is planted by Katie's camp, which is why
we're hearing Rockets and Spurs. Now we're hearing Timberwolves, We're
even hearing heat. Kevin Durant wants out badly. He wants
to get it done before Yannis. He doesn't want to
(22:36):
have to wait and Colin, there are some odds here
on his next team.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
The Spurs are now minus one sixty.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
Now you cannot lay the lumber on this personally, I
would would you trade for Kevin Durant at thirty seven
or Yannis in his prime?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Like now?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
In so sense, yeah, Yannis is yeah. I mean he's
a wildly productive on both ends. But you're not going
to have to give up as much to get Kevin Durant.
And I think there's those teams on that list, like
the Rockets, Nicks and t Wolves feel like they need
to tweak, not an overhaul, So those are good teams. Spurs,
(23:14):
I don't know. I think KD is about as good
a guy as you can break. He doesn't have a
huge ego, he doesn't need the ball in his hands.
He's highly effective. He still gives you twenty five. I
gotta no. I'm a i'm a KD guy, so I
I like him.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
You like arguing online with social media random people like
all the time, and it's not delivering the playoffs lately.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
It doesn't matter. I don't care that he does. That
doesn't bother me. I KD is actually pretty social online.
I'm not. It's not my game, but it doesn't bother me.
There are a lot of people in the celebrity space
that are active on their you know, TikTok and e ig.
I'm not a lot of people are. I'm not going
(23:55):
to blame somebody much younger than me for that.
Speaker 6 (23:58):
Final story.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
Con Made League Baseball, the Dodgers are starting to show
kind of some chinks in the armor here in the
pitching staff.
Speaker 6 (24:07):
It's not looking good at all. But there is good news.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
On The Horizon Show, Hey Otani pitched a three inning
simulated game yesterday. Colin Dave Roberts Sole reporters Otani is
nearing return, and he wouldn't rule out Otani pitching before
the All Star Game next month.
Speaker 6 (24:25):
That is shocking to me. And here's why.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
Look at the Dodgers' pitching staff this season. You are
seeing just not good. I mean, they are bottom ten
in many of these stats. That's a bit of a surprise.
You love this team coming in Colin a little underwhelming
so farth well, I.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Mean, I think everybody loved it, but they had you know,
they're playing by a different set of parameters because of
their financial gap in the system. So I mean, they
brought in some pitchers who had a history of injuries.
They're all about August, September and October the Dodgers. It's
just different, so.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
You know, and.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
The regular season is long. They're all about getting Snell
and the kid from is the class now, you know Otani, Yeah,
this is this is all about September. I think they'll
be fine. You know, the last couple of years they've
had these sort of sort of soft three week stretches
and it's almost oh, has been a lack of available arms.
(25:24):
So I feel like we're just kind of going through
the same I mean, these seasons are so long. I
don't I don't. I mean, even in the NFL, they're
going to eighteen games. Probably by next year. How valuable
will September be? You know it used to be. If
you're oh and two, you can don't make the playoffs
in an eighteen game schedule, it's just not gonna matter.
I mean even in college football, Ohio State lost at
(25:45):
home is a huge favorite of Michigan. They made the
playoffs in woninnaty. So I just thinks the longer the season,
these these minor disruptions don't matter as much.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
And their pitching was dominant against the Yankees in the
World Series.
Speaker 6 (25:59):
They just haven't look that. Is this a little bit
of the Celtics? Remember the Celtics won the title and.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
Then it kind of went through the motions at times
this year they got passed by the Calves in the East.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
Is there a little of that at place?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
I mean, if you kind of look at the big
picture of baseball, like Detroit's been surprisingly good, Like Detroit's
been really good. And there's a couple of teams like
the Yankees that are a marginal threat. But if you
stack the roster and they're healthy, nobody's beating this team.
Nobody's beating the Dodgers. Jmack of the News well that's the.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
News, and thanks for stopping by the herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
You know what I was thinking about this. I love
mystery when it comes to like a true crime series.
I don't love mystery with my quarterbacks. Remember the Jordan
Love were like, we didn't see video for three years.
I saw this. I know it's just a Minnesota Vikings
fan page. I understand I'm not going crazy here, but
JJ McCarthy threw a pick for a third straight day.
(27:02):
I'm just I haven't, I haven't.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
My two questions are, I've seen one preseason game. He
was good in it, by the way, eleven to seventeen,
one hundred and ninety yards, a couple of touchdowns, passer
rating like one. He was very good. I saw the highlights,
didn't watch the game live, saw the highlights, was very good.
Then you get the two surgeries. So we don't know
what he is, but it is there's so much mystery here.
Why does Minnesota keep flirting without our quarterbacks? And there's
(27:27):
too many conflicting reports on JJ McCarthy, so I just
find the whole thing. There's a lot of stuff I
just don't know. I feel sometimes I'm getting I'm getting
a little bit of a spin job here. You know,
I will say this is and I think j Mac,
you and I have had this discussion to be a
great franchise quarterback. And again I think Jalen Hurts is
(27:50):
probably ten best in the league. But I do think
he's he's a top ten franchise quarterback. If you're top
ten in a league of thirty two teams, you're good.
There's got to be a trait, has to be a
wow trait. So let's just go through them. Mahomes arm, talent,
Alan Sheer, force of size, Lamar athletic ability. Stafford has
(28:11):
one of the great arms in the last thirty years
in the league. He's got a magical arm, burrow, composure,
and accuracy like as good as Brady in his prime.
If you look at the numbers and analytics, Herbert big,
strong power arm, c J. Stroud Accuracy like just I mean,
moving left, moving right, moving forward.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
C J.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Stroud's accuracies since high school's insane. Hurts strength pound for pounds,
six hundred pound squads, Kyler Murray, elusiveness. You start stacking
up these quarterbacks, there's there's a trait like Elway arm,
Marino arm, Aaron Rodgers arm release, what is Go back
(28:52):
and look at the people I trust. There's one, one
or two things I never buy. I never buy this.
When you say is about a quarterback, that guy is
a winner. Everybody under Jim Harbaugh and Steve Spurrier and
Nick Saban's a winner. I don't want to hear that.
If you go back and look, his arm is modest,
(29:13):
his escapability is modest. His release wasn't super quick. There
is no great trait. That's why I was always a
Donald fan. Donald is tough with a big arm. He
can be reckless, but there are times you watch Donald
his ability to make big throws while moving is special.
(29:35):
I don't get McCarthy's wow trait.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
Now.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I like Jordan Love, but I think Jordan Love has
an incredible arm, he's got a whip, and he's also
super athletic. I don't see the wow. There's gotta be
one thing where I'm like, oh, it's always been my
knock on purty. Now perty they say cognitively he's like
Superman above the shoulders. Maybe that's it, but where's the
wow with this guy?
Speaker 5 (29:58):
I was gonna ask you, like party coming out of
Iowa state, there was no wow.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
He gets to the NFL and his processing is wow.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
So can we see McCarthy play a real game, not
just preseason not odas. Can we can we see him
like play a real game? Maybe a trait will emerge?
And he was a pretty mobile quarterback, obviously not Josh Allen. Okay,
but I mean how about this. There isn't anything he
doesn't do well. He has a big arm, he's mobile,
(30:25):
he can process.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
He shouldowed everything he did. Go go read this scout.
He doesn't have a big arm. He does not have a.
Speaker 6 (30:31):
Big good enough arm, good enough NFL he has.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
His arm is considered modest. It is a middle of
the pack arm, middle of the pack of capability. In fact,
they question his release. His release at times could be
a little plotting, which was always a darnold knock and
you have to work on that. You could get better
at that. There is no go go look at all
the guys the Lanceur lines, and these are guys that
are fans. It's a lot of that guy is a winner.
(30:55):
He plays with a chip on his shoulder. I could
say that about Johnny Manziel and Tim Tebow. Tim Tebow
and Johnny Mandel. I mean, remember the Tim Tebow's speech
after they lost at home to Old Miss, We'll never
lose again. I do not buy winner. What does that mean?
Everybody the Alabama Ohio State wins. What does that mean?
Speaker 6 (31:11):
Maybe this is better?
Speaker 5 (31:12):
He got the stamp of approval from Jim Harball and
Kevin O'Connell.
Speaker 6 (31:17):
Does that mean anything to you? I mean, you love
these guys, you hype them up.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
By the way, I heard a lot of people tell
me how all the scouts loved him. People moved up
for Pennix and then, well, wait, I don't care.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
About the scouts.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
I care about Jim Harball and established great coach, and
Kevin O'Connell one of the best young coaches in the league.
Speaker 6 (31:35):
I care about them. No disrespect to your scouts more
than scouts. Doesn't that mean anything to you? When Jim
Harball's like, yeah, I love this for.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Kevin O'Connell understands the value of words. He is not
going to criticize JJ McCarthy. So you've got to understand that.
When's the last time a offensive head coach criticized I
mean Brian Callahan and Will Levis, he couldn't stand him
by and large, you say nice stuff. I mean that
that you forget.
Speaker 5 (32:03):
About the words. How about the actions he did? He
they may have considered. How about Rogers they may have
considered Daniels, how about the JJ? How about these actions?
Speaker 1 (32:13):
They wanted to re sign Sam Darnold, Well like they
didn't though, but they wanted to, but it got to crises.
Well the people from people I trust. I mean again,
it's I don't want to hear about guys being winners.
I'm not into every Ohio state quarterback in my life's
been a winner. Spurrier was down in Florida, Rex Grossman
(32:33):
had some real arm talent, but they were all winners.
Danny Wirfel was a winner. What does that mean to
that guy?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Huh?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Love that guy?
Speaker 6 (32:43):
They were fun in the nineties.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in newone Easter not a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (32:54):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern. But here's the thing, we
never have enough time to get to everything we want
to get to.
Speaker 8 (33:02):
And that's why we have a brand new podcast called
over promised. You see, we're having so much fun in
our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for. Yeah, you blubber list lame me.
Speaker 7 (33:17):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 8 (33:21):
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 7 (33:35):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also uncensored by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 8 (33:45):
There you go, over promising, and remember you could see
it on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised
with Covino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
One year from today, the biggest FIFA World Cup ever
comes to North America and the countdown starts with a
one year to Go party live from Miami Friday at
eight seventh Central on Fox.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah, so you know last night was an abomination. Now again,
the Gold Cup starts this weekend and it matters. They're
sixteen countries and it means something. But when Christian Polistic said,
hey man, I've gone back to back years ac Milan
fifty matches, I'm taking a break. When he doesn't play,
turn the sound down. We don't look the same. He's
(34:35):
our most creative, most skilled player. And you can talk
about Weston McKinney and g o'raina, all these guys. It
doesn't matter. Polistic's the star. He drives the bus for
our offense. And when he's not playing, we're not the
same team attacking. We just don't look the same. So
Tyler Adams is all banged up, no question, we're better
(34:58):
than four nothing at halftime. But what I think last
night did show that regardless of what coach we have
in we have a new coach now from Europe. He
loves young talent and the bottom line is he didn't
inspire Polisic, who's a little fatigued to even play. Some
of these guys are banged up. They could play it,
they chose not to. So is that impending dread? I
(35:21):
don't know, But in twenty three minutes to give up
four goals shows you how thin our talent pool is. Now. Listen,
other countries don't have the NFL and the NBA and
Major League Baseball. But we're also a very large country.
But our best athletes do not play soccer. That is
without question, that is true. The best athletes in Brazil,
(35:42):
where's the money soccer? Our best athletes in America, where's
the money? NBA, Baseball, NFL and then maybe soccer. So
our best players go to Europe. Europe's best players don't
come to the MLS. So it's just I do think,
and I've said this, I think it's the strongest group
(36:02):
of skilled young American talent of my life. And what
last night proves is the gap between that and our
second tier is the Grand Canyon. We just don't have. Again,
we have about six really really good players that I
really like, and they're noticeably different. In Spain may have
(36:23):
thirteen and England may have eleven, and so our gap
when Christian politic or Weston McKinney does not play, it
is noticeable. And here was DeMarcus Beasley trailing for nothing,
which would be the final score. Here he was at
half last night. I've never seen a US team play
that and a half a football team.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
And forget not being good enough what they I mean
they didn't put in a tackle. I'm not saying that
they don't want to play the game, but you have.
Speaker 6 (36:52):
This is your chance to be to make a World
Cups fives.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
This is your Jedd.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
There's no politic, there's no West mckinnay, the no one.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
This is your time to step up and put on
that book for forty five minutes. Terrible, And this is
I've been on this for years. It's always the coach,
because you can fire the coach. And I defended Greg Berholter.
I mean the fact that we held England scoreless and
that we gave up one goal in the group stage
in the World Cup was pretty redeemable. And then we
(37:21):
played the Netherlands and we were just totally outclassed because
they had much older, more experienced players. But even that
game was encouraging. It's like, okay, that's the standard. The
Netherlands can win a World Cup or certainly compete. We can't.
But in four years when it's on us soil, can
we grow? And the feeling is yes. But maybe one
(37:41):
of the downsides, and I'll ask Alexi lawleas next hour,
is that more and more of our great players are
going to Europe. Maybe we have to pivot and transition
away from the Gold Cup. Is that as now as
our best players are facing very rigorous overseas Europe in competition.
That's what Pulisic is arguing, is that the standards changed.
(38:06):
It's about making money overseas and then the World Cup,
and that maybe Christian Pulisic is onto something that we
as Americans can't get into the Gold Cup. It just
doesn't matter anymore. If you want our star, if you
want America to attract the best stars, then they've got
to be able to go over and make a ton
of money in Europe and not worry and piddle around
with the MLS. Sorry, when's the last mL MLS? Once
(38:28):
they signed that Apple contract, Apple TV contract, don't don't.
I don't watch as much. It's just it feels like
the league is less of a league than it was
three or four years ago and the money's in Europe,
so maybe it's just a different time now that the
Gold Cup just it just doesn't matter as much. It's
about making money in Europe and the World Cup and
being healthy for that. That is possible. But sixteen teams
(38:51):
competing in the Gold Cup. I always felt like we
were top two or three and if this is the
group Jmac, it's just not encouraging. Four goals twenty three
minutes is disheartening. And again this is a coach known
in Tottenham of developing very quickly young players. Well here's
our young guys and that was a mess.
Speaker 5 (39:12):
So I guess you know, I will concede two points.
Speaker 6 (39:15):
Number one, the team seems to.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Lack an identity without Polisic on the field, as you
alluded to, I don't know what they were. They were
just a collection of dudes last night, not passing working together.
They looked like they hadn't had many practices together. And
the second one colin that they lack is momentum. You
remember last year leaving or the last World Cup cycle,
Canada had all the momentum in the world. They were
playing great, then they got smoked in the World Cup.
(39:38):
So maybe momentum doesn't mean much. But with the Gold
Cup this weekend and for us to kind of oh jeez,
this was like alarming.
Speaker 6 (39:46):
This was troubling, and you don't have an identity or momentum.
I'm not going to go over there.
Speaker 5 (39:52):
I'll leave the hot takes for Lawless here shortly.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
In my life, we have always been closer to Italy
than Brazil. We're not highly skilled. We have great goalkeeping,
and if we win against good teams, it's won nothing.
You're right, like I always felt, we were always good
in goal, we had solid coaching, but there was a
way we would win. We're not getting into a shootout
(40:16):
against Argentina or Brazil or Columbia. That's not what we are.
We're not that skilled. We don't have that depth of talent.
We're like an NBA team with no bench. We've got,
you know, we've got some really nice players, and they
were too young for the last World Cup. But when
they again the game against England, you're sitting there thinking
we're not that far away. Then they faced the Netherlands, older,
(40:36):
mature team, more skilled. They found us, and they should
But I but I think what last night showed more
than anything is that our talent pool is very, very thin.
And when you take out Tyler Adams and Western McKinney
and Christian Polisic, we don't have a bench, you miss.
We want to talk ourselves into it, we just don't.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
You're missing our entire midfield, your best attacker, like you
didn't have your World Cup center forward, like I don't.
I just that's the reason. I'm like, all right, you know,
four nothing is a drubbing, but we didn't have our guys.
You know, it'd be like the Nuggets playing without Jokics
or something. You know, if Politic is our Yokis and
he's not that good, but he's.
Speaker 6 (41:13):
Our best guy. I don't know. I'm sure Lallas is
gonna say something like, listen, if.
Speaker 5 (41:18):
We don't get out of the group stage of the
Gold Cup, maybe we move on from the coach that quickly.
I don't know, but we got to show up this week,
and I think we do. I'll call it three nothing
over Trinidad and Tobago.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
That's very it's very uh, you're very optimistic. I mean,
I was just it's just it's one of those where
we have not beaten the European team. What was the
stat since twenty twenty one.
Speaker 6 (41:41):
Yeah, that's that's just hurt. Like seven Masters though, I mean, well.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
It's all for seven. That's something you want to have
to go to Oda's thirteen. I mean, like where do
we have to go? Like it just it just feels
like I don't blame Polisic. The money is is Ac Malong.
The kid's gonna have. He's got generational wealth. He's not
gonna word.
Speaker 5 (42:01):
I mean, after you saw Polisics Dad versus Landon Donovan online,
which was interesting, Landed Donovan kind of ripped Polisic without
saying his name and Landon and politics.
Speaker 6 (42:10):
Dad was like, dude, you did the same thing, you know,
So it's.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
I get it.
Speaker 6 (42:14):
I get it for soccer.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I get our players caring about two things, European money
in the World Cup and not the Gold Cup.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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