February 25, 2025 • 29 mins
Gary and Shannon bring you the latest trending stories during What’s Happening. #TrueCrimeTuesday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Gary and Shannon and you're listening to KFI
AM six forty, the Gary and Shannon Show on demand
on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What else is going on? Time for what's happening? Wow?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Well, the story that's been followed internationally is the health
of Pope Francis. According to the Vatican, he continues his
recovery from pneumonia. The Vatican set in motion a nightly
marathon of prayers from his house. Allies have been cheering
him on and hopes that he might recover. He might
recover and get back to leading the Catholic Church. The
(00:34):
typical morning briefing was very brief. All it said was
the Pope slept well all night.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
That's awful. Yeah, that's awful.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
A fresh search for the Malaysia flight Malaysia Airlines Flight
three seventy. Remember, a fresh search has been launched. More
than a decade after that plane went missing. The exploration
firm Ocean Infinity of resume the hunt for the missing plane.
There have been so many conspiracy theories about this one
(01:07):
the Malaysia. The country says that it welcomes the proactiveness
of the firm to deploy their ships to begin the search.
They don't know how long this is going to last.
They don't know why or when they decided to kick
off this latest hunt. But this was the Boeing Triple
seven carrying two hundred and thirty nine people that just
(01:29):
vanished from radar screens. It was March twenty fourteen. It
was en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Margin in aviation history.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
They a couple of different things.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Obviously, one of the theories was that the pilot himself went
rogue and put this thing in the ocean pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Others had suggested.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
That it landed somewhere and all of the people were
absconded to March. I don't know whatever their plane, whatever
their crazy series where Occham's razor comes into play. It's
probably just an airplane that crashed into the ocean. Unfortunately,
it crashed into a place on the Earth that is
(02:12):
not covered by airplane radar the way it exists now.
One of the things that you weren't here last week,
but I talked with with Jay Ratlif, the iHeartRadio aviation analyst.
We were talking about upgrades to the FAA system air
traffic control, et cetera. And he actually pointed to this
Malaysia Airlines three seventy as one of the arguments in
(02:35):
favor of doing satellite tracking on airplanes, on all airliners,
because obviously you'd be able to cover the globe. We
would have a much better indication as to where this
airplane went. But it's a lot easier and a lot
more technologically feasible to be able to put airplane GPS
locators in each airplane and have it, you know, bouncing
(02:58):
off different satellites throughout the core of the world every
single day.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
It's just a better way to do it.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I don't know what changes in the world of these
searchers where they think now is the time to go
back out and find it, except that it would simply
be on a no find, no fee principle, which means
if they don't find the airplane, they don't get paid
for it. Apparently the Indianesia, sorry, the Malaysian government said
that they would write a check for seventy million dollars
(03:26):
if the company finds the airplane.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeahvin Newsom has launched a new state website. This is
kind of taking a page from Elon Musk's book. This
is something Newsome will trot out when he tries to
appeal to the moderates in this country when he runs
for president. It's kind of like a transparent way to
see how your money's being spent when it comes to homelessness.
(03:50):
It's going to be a website that tracks county progress
on homeless county by county snapshots of spending on behavioral health, homelessness,
and how it provides information on spending in all fifty
eight counties across the state. So that when people can
say the Gavenusom, look at your stated some mess, look
at the homelessness, he can say, look, I met the
(04:12):
moment in real time. I put together a website that
tracks the spending of the money that voters have approved to.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Fix this problem.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
However, the California State Association of Counties said that this
website is just a spin without substance to back exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
There's gonna be no substance, There's gonna be no transparency.
This is just Gaven Newsom saying he's done a thing. Yeah,
there's no The emperor has no clothes. When it comes
to this transparency website, I'll tell you that there's gonna
be very scant information release to there.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
There is a bunch of hand ringing going on about
a homeless guy who finally had his homeless encampment torn down. Finally,
the man was positioned just off the one ten Freeway,
said he'd been there for five years and never been
bothered until Friday, received note that that day while he
was at work, never got any follow up afterwards, and
when he woke up morning Monday morning, crews were already
(05:06):
there and they took almost everything, leaving behind some of
the tools that he actually needs for his job. He
said he's not sure what caused them to suddenly evict
them from the area, and he had no idea where
he can go.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
Now.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
If you've seen this, by the way.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
It looked like it was made, it looked like the
side of a house because of everything that he had
done there. There were piles of precisely placed rocks that
separated his finger quotes property from the embankment of the royo.
Seko said he had a bathtub, said he had a
working kitchen. Trust me, you didn't. And they can't figure
(05:41):
out why. Gosh, I don't know why. After five years,
this guy finally be guess he shouldn't have been there.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
In the first place. He should not have.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Been allowed to post a makeshift home in the first place.
This reminds me of remember those abandoned towers. I think
there was supposed to be condo towers in downtown LA
where graffiti tower. Yes, every floor was covered with graffiti. Well,
there's a new one in it's either going to be
(06:10):
Studio City somewhere. It's just south of the one thirty
four freeway as you're driving through the valley here. And
it used to be a big bank building, used to
be a big Washington Mutual when Washington Mutuals the thing
was taken over by another bank. Now since they've taken
the name plate off of it, it's an abandoned building.
And if you look closely, it's covered with graffiti on
(06:33):
the inside of the windows. So if you're looking at
it from a distance, you can't really tell. You get
closer and you slow down on the freeway, Please don't
slow down on the freeway.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
That's part of my way home.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
But you can tell it's destroyed on the inside, one
hundred percent covered by graffiti. And people who would argue
something like, well that's just the way Los Angeles is.
It's like an art form out of the that's what's wrong.
That's what's wrong with this place.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Now, that's just where you go to do drugs for
three weeks and no one will find you.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I don't want to.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
It's not for you. It's not what those places are
built for.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
An online content creator has been charged with criminal mischief
for I usually don't like to shed light on online
content creators, but this is a good story.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Well just don't say what the name is. That way,
there you go.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
This person has been charged with criminal mischief a female
I will add because it adds to the story, for
allegedly making disturbing videos of her contaminating store products by
urinating on them. This is an investigation and a product
recall that dates back to four years ago. There was
(07:46):
an anonymous tip regarding a woman twenty three years old
who had posted disturbing videos to her Internet site of
her peeing on items in a local business.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Let's get this, monad Knock Food co Op has you
shoot a voluntary recall for their red Kinwa, white Kinwa, Tricolor, Quenoa, cornmeal, polenta,
coconut shreds, and raw walnuts.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
How much urine nebra tebra.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yes, yes, this is like your ale of the store.
Do you ever think about who's been urinating?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Noo?
Speaker 4 (08:22):
I no, I don't want.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
To think of that.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I mean that polenta may come with a side of urine,
the raw walnuts you put on your salad urine walnuts?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
E god?
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I mean, why would you pee on the keen wah?
Speaker 6 (08:40):
I don't understand what does quenua do to you? I mean,
we have somebody pissed off at keenwak.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Question? There you go. I have a question.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
In these vegan markets, it's the keen wa just exposed.
It's not like in a box. It could be like
in a bin.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
I don't go to vegan markets, but the keen wa
that I buy is usually a in a bag.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I don't think I've ever seen it in an open somewhere.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
And well, you haven't been to the Mono Doc food
co Op, which sounds pretty exposed, doesn't It sounds like
you what would be out and open for everyone to
see and feel and touch and pee on.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I guess it's a vegan hater.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Maybe maybe yeah, maybe she does look like she has
color in her cheeks when I'm looking at this mug shot.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
She may eat meat. Color of my you do?
Speaker 5 (09:30):
You do?
Speaker 4 (09:30):
I'm sorry that was a low shot, all right, I
didn't mean it about you.
Speaker 7 (09:35):
There are some vegan zebra. You have to agree that
you lack color. Absolutely, they they yes. It's almost like
some people who are on some of those weight loss
you know, drugs, and how they look very gaunt.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Right, there are some vegans that look that way.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Right, you have a beautiful color and glow to you
when we come back our philosophical question of the day, Gary.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Gerry looks more like the vegan Why wait?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Why?
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Because you have a lighter skin.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I spent all weekend in Arizona in the sunshine.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
I haven't seen you. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I'm pasty white, you're alway.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
I've never seen you in a tan. It's either pasty
white or sunburn.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It's it's pretty good gas. Actually, Oh, Gary Shennon.
Speaker 8 (10:18):
Well in the coast of Asia here, I listen to
you talking about the touring you know, Sharia and the
other torture countries where they take you to bombed out
tourist attractions and whatever. What if you wanted to go
like Auschwitz or bad the tour there is that like
(10:41):
in the same scale as you guys were talking about morning.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
Gary Shennon, Yeah, I agree, it is kind of sick
to go through that place. But what is it the
difference of going to the Holocaust over in Germany to
those camps where they killed a lot of people?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
What about that?
Speaker 5 (10:56):
What's explained the difference between Because I'm kind of confused him,
though I do agree with you though.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
HI have a good day. That's your philosophical question for
the day.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I think it's because people who go see the places
involved with the Holocaust feel a sense of connection to
them because of their relatives were there or on either uh,
their relatives were involved.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
I also think it's because I don't want to say
it was a happy ending, but the good guys won.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I don't think it comes any part in going to
see the Holocaust places, but I mean that there is
that it's not going to happen again, right, I mean,
we hopefully don't.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Go there close.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
No people go there to sit in the sorrow and
realize the hell that people went through.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
But it's only available to them because it ended the
way it did. I mean, if I.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Just don't think that that gets to be put in
the conversation. If you're going to go to a concentration camp,
nobody's thinking like, Oh, we're so lucky that we get
to be here because of the good guys winning, you
know what I mean, Like it's just to go there
and feel like hell, and feel the pain and realize
that you had ancestors that died there or people that
(12:18):
survived that and everything that went.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I think it's just a heavy place.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I think people feel like it's kind of like going
to Pearl Harbor. It's the same thing of just going
there and just there's no silver lining.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
To going to those places.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I don't think, at least when I went to the
Pearl Harbor Memorial, there was no silver lining, you know
what I mean, Like you're standing there and you're just
thinking about everything that happened that day and subsequently.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
And I think.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
That we're more connected to that than going to a
village in Syria or Ukraine, because that's our American history.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Are those things?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
But the other thing, well, I mean American history and
that we helped liberate those those concentration camps.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Right No, But I mean like as opposed to going
to Ukraine and going to right, yeah, you know, the
village where.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
The other aspect of it is it's a safe place
to go, and I mean just physically right now. You
went in twenty twenty five to Booken Vault or something
like that. It's a safe place to go. There's no
threat to your life.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And there is.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
An again I'm using the wrong words, there's a luxury
to be able to go to that place right now
and sit in the sorrow of what happened there. You're
not going to go to a concentration camp that exists
in Siberia today to sit in the sorrow of because
you can't get there. You're not allowed to go there.
(13:41):
I mean, there's a bunch of stuff that goes into it,
but it is also because it was eighty years ago.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
To me, it's one of those it goes under the
umbrella of ridiculously rich, sick entitled people luxuries to say
I'm going to go to Syria and take pictures of
me at the village where two hundreds pavillions were slaughtered
because I could afford the weird travel accommodations, you know,
And it's just who you have to have crazy amounts
(14:09):
of money to make able to be able to make
that trip. Happen, and then who are you showing those
pictures to somebody with your urinated walnuts?
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Like you know, I went to see. I don't know,
what are you trying to do there?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I feel like when I looked at the pictures of
that article in the Telegraph on danger tourism, it was
like all these well to do people buy in large
white who are just like, look at us, We're here
in a beanie in Syria, Like aren't we interesting.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Kind of thing?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Well as opposed to this is me and Bimini or
Bali or something like that, exactly right.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
This is an awful story.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, I know, God, I like I because we were.
Keana gave us a story earlier in the week, which
was yesterday.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
It's been a long one and.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
I was just kind of like just reading through the
beginning parts of it about this couple in Toronto and
they sound lovely and a normal couple that you'd be
friends with, and the kids and the careers and everything,
and okay, it ends in murder, and it's it's so
interesting when you know what the details are, but when
(15:24):
you dig in to the specific details of the details,
how sad and dark it gets.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
This is one of those things.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
My god, there's an aspect of these stories when we
do our true Crime Tuesday stories, there's an aspect of
it that is the worst of humanity.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I mean, there's a there's a darkness to some of
these stories.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
It's just it's scary because you look at these people
and you hear about them, and they seem normal.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
And like we said, class, why do we murder? Love
and money? Usually?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Right, this one's got both of those things. But it's
not just psychopaths that murder people ordinary.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And I think that's what fascinates us about true crime,
as you've got ordinary people living ordinary lives, and sometimes
they're the victim of a horrendous murder and sometimes they're
the perpetrator, and you're thinking, in both cases, how could
this person carry this out? Or how could this person
fall prey to this?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Well, and they point out in this and I think
this is kind of your point, is that we like
to say that anybody who kills is crazy, right, you
have to be a certain level of crazy to take
another person's life. But there are studies that show that
a lot of us, a lot of ninety one percent
(16:45):
of men eighty four percent of women say that they've
had a vivid fantasy of killing someone, and that many
people have confessed that they would actually that they even
played out specific scenarios in their heads, imagine themselves stabbing
or shooting or strangler or whatever.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
But here's where the difference is.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
The cutoff is that the vast majority of us, if
we ever have those thoughts, then think to ourselves, I
could never do that.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
That would be crazy. Not only I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
I say that, I probably say that every day I'm
gonna kill somebody, or I'm gonna kill I'm gonna kill
this person, and it changes from day to day, moment
to moment, but I never actually think practically I'm gonna
kill them.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Is that what you're saying that? What is it? Ninety percent?
Eighty four percent?
Speaker 7 (17:31):
What was that?
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Ninety one percent of men, eighty four percent of women
said that they've actually.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Think about the manner in which they'd kill somebody.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Again, not that I think that's a step too far,
it's just the they've had a vivid moment of fantasy
of killing someone. But then the vast majority of us go,
I could never do that. And that's where it ends
for most people. Is that I've never thought.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
About how to kill somebody.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
I've never thought about like, am I gonna strangle them
or stab them?
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Like? That's that's the next level, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
But you haven't thought about how to get away with it?
Speaker 4 (18:04):
No?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I have not. Oh you haven't.
Speaker 8 (18:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Oh maybe I took step two and then I decided
that that would be crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Now this couple.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
In fact, Jacob, just so you know, we're not even
gonna play the thing just because I don't want to.
I don't want to make fun of this story because
it is there are some pretty dark elements to it.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
So let's just get into who these people are. James
Schwamm born into a great family. Grandparents devout Christians. They
ran a nice foundation, they were very into education, they
ran hospice care, addiction recovery treatment. Just just a really
great family. And he was a firefighter. He had been
(18:44):
promoted by the early twenty tens to acting captain.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
He was an effective leader, they say.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
The people that worked with him, quick, decisive when responding
to calls on his watch. The workplace was jovial, supportive.
He was the guy that would grow out mustache for November.
He was just that guy, you know, he was the
firehouse guy, and he was great at what he did
and he was good for the community.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Ashley, on the other hand, she grew up in Toronto.
It's not that she didn't have money, it was just
a different kind of family. She was an avid hiker,
very athletic tennis player, piakers fan, a warm young woman
with an electric smile. Her mom died of cancer when
she was younger, when Ashley was younger, in two thousand
and four. But they said Ashley was the glue that
(19:30):
kind of held the family together. She had a reputation
for lending support, but without the sugar coating. So her
three siblings, the cousins, and all these friends would come
to her in the event that they had ever had
a fight within the family. She was the one that
would would smooth everything over. She would dole out wisdom.
Friend said that Ashley was someone you could talk to
(19:51):
about what was going on in your life. She would
sing and dance around the house. She talked about buying
a farm. She wanted to start an animal sanctuary.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
We lit up the room when she walked in.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
She was a good, good person and that that laugh
is kind of what originally caught Jamie's attention. He and
Ashley were skiing together. They would grab drinks in the
city of Toronto, and they started doing the thing that
you do when you're young and you're serious, and you go,
what would it be like to be married?
Speaker 4 (20:22):
So they dream of having kids.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
They end up buying the first house together, a new
building Collingwood.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
They got engaged.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
They had this beautiful wedding, Ashley saying that she felt
like a princess was picturesque. She arrived in a horse
drawn carriage to the wedding.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
The whole bit.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
The next several years went as they planned. James promoted
full time to fire captain. She designed homes. They got
a dog, Rocco. They started a family vers a son
and a daughter. Moved into a bigger house that backed
into a hiking trail, which they enjoyed. Everything that they
had planned in those early dates that you spoke of.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, but it's not always sunshine and puppy dogs, because
life can be a grind sometimes and they found that out.
The managing of the household, expenses, the kids and their
extra curriculars, the long commutes, the long hours firefighters are
doing twenty four hours on, maybe seventy two off, and
that can take a toll as well. And every once
(21:22):
in a while, kind of as a hobby, he would
take a job at a small engine shop and kind
of keep himself busy.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Well, Ashley kept herself busy.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
She took a new job at a company that constructs
custom homes cottages Gichalaise, and she started hanging out with
her boss and hooking up with her boss. Yeah, about
six months after she started working there, they began an affair.
And now, as you can imagine, with the custom home market,
they're on the road a lot. They're visiting projects, plenty
of time for their extra curriculars. For a few months,
(21:55):
James and this guy's wife, Alexandra had no idea, but
then they found out Alexandra files for divorce. James and
Ashley think they're gonna work things out. She finds a
new job, thank god. They start going to couples counseling,
individual therapy, but James. It's taking a toll on James,
(22:15):
and then his temperament at work begins to show cracks.
He starts treating people with condescension. He's drinking more than usual,
he's distant, he's self involved, but they're like, you know what,
We're gonna give him some slack. The rigors of the
job and everything. It's just a lot. Maybe he'll come around.
He's just going through a phase. But then it gets worse.
He tells his mom in twenty twenty two, around Christmas,
(22:37):
he doesn't think he and Ashley are going to make it. She,
at the same time, is telling her family that she's
thinking about leaving James.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Well, that's roughly the time that James started hooking up
with the original guy's wife. Remember when Ashley started an
affair with her boss. The boss's wife filed for divorce.
James kept her and con kept in contact with her,
and they wanted to start a little something. His marriage
(23:08):
wasn't working. He said that he was going to make
a decision. He's going to do what would make him happy.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
James is weighing his options. He's thinking staying with Ashley,
this is an untenable situation, but divorce. I don't want
to untangle myself financially, custody of the kids, all of
that stuff. So he started desperately thinking to find another
way out.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Telling a story of James Schwam firefighter from a good
family up in the Toronto area and the Blue Mountains
in Ontario. His wife of several years, Ashley Milns, ends
up having an affair with her boss. They decide to
stick it out and actually try to get try to
get things back on track, but after about a year
(23:54):
or so, they decide that they're going to go their
separate ways. She has confided to her family she's thinking
about leaving him. He and up starting an affair with
the boss's ex wife at the time, and doesn't want
to get a divorce. Told a friend that a divorce
was unimaginable. Well, he's set in motion a very strange plan.
(24:14):
Among other things, he walked over to his mom's house
at one point she lived nearby, and decided to take
mom's car and park it at the elementary school.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
That's weird.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Well, the morning of January twenty fifth, everything's normal, kids
get ready for school, Ashley goes to work, She goes out,
walks the dog. Sorry, he goes to work, She goes out,
walks the dog. Several hours later, at nighttime, they're arguing
(24:50):
and one of the kids wakes up. Who's then he's
then nine, sees mom and Dad, Ashley asks him to
go into her bedroom and fetch her phone so she
could call the police. Ashley never got the chance to
call nine one one, the sun goes back to the bedroom,
James grabs her and strangles her to death. At one point,
(25:13):
one of the kids hears Dad say what time is it, Alexa,
And as he remembers it, the speaker said three am.
And sometime in the next two hours, James had dressed
Ashley in hiking clothes, put her in her car, and
taken her out to a trailhead.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Now imagine that just all the work, I mean horrific
murder in this all happening in front of the children,
and all of that aside, all of the work and
the orchestration that goes into this.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, the planning, even if you did it in a
moment of passion, and then to have the wherewithal to
do all of this. He was sending text messages using
her phone to him, Hey, I'm leaving Alcia soon. I'm
gonna zip out. I think the kids are fine sleeping.
Sorry about yelling at you. My hikes are important.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
So even if you had premeditated all that and doing
all that, actually doing it, you would think would paralyze you.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
He drives her car to a parking lot, cracks open
the window, douses it with gasoline, ends up pushing it
or driving it off of a road, walks down the road.
Remember this is Toronto in January, so there's snow all
over the place, leaving footprints. Throws a lighter inside the truck,
burns the whole thing up. She's inside, crumpled in a
(26:38):
ball in the footwell on the passenger side. When they
find it, that's mysterious. They also find his initials on
the lighter that was used to start the fire. He meanwhile,
had gone back to the elementary school, picked up mom's car,
grabbed the kids, Hey kids, everybody's having fun, good breakfast,
(27:00):
and then takes them to school. It was work that
originally reported that she hadn't shown up, and he had
gone to work as well, And that's kind of where
they caught up with him.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Him calling her parents and faking tears, saying that the
daughter had died in a plane run, the fact a
car wreck, the fact that he didn't think that the
police could do the forensic investigation of his phone and everything,
and realizing that he had a motive in all this,
and it being relatively small town where everybody knew everyone's business,
(27:39):
and everyone knew what was going on with Ashley and
with this marriage and everything, you thought.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
That you'd hide it.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah, I mean, just even if and the cell.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Phone tracking that exists these days, knowing where those text
messages came from and the time of day they were sent,
and everything.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
And everybody, the ubiquity of doorbell cameras. I mean, there
were people that saw him literally walking away from the
flaming vehicle early that morning, I mean, running out there
in the wilderness when no one should have been out there.
It would have been way too cold anyway. And friends
who said there's no way that she would go hiking
(28:15):
pre dawn. That's not what she did. She would always
wait until after the kids were at school. She would
wait until a daytime because she knew that that was
the safe way to do it.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
What a mess all the way around.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
He, by the way, has been in custody now since
February of twenty twenty three, attempted suicide multiple times.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Oh which, by the way, the attorneys that are representing
him have said that that is proof that he's remorseful.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And shouldn't stay in prison for very long.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Well, lawyers will say anything, right, good lord.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
In Canada, they don't have the death penalty, so the
judge decided that he should be in prison, eligible four
parole after twenty one years.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
What an awful person.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Just get a divorce. Just get a divorce. You know
what's cheaper divorce than living murder?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
A divorce. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
The kids, by the way, are living with her younger brother,
apparently a young couple that had gotten married, so now
they have kids.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
How old are the kids now?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
They would only be like ten and seven according to
the mask.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
That's horrific. Well, see, Canadians aren't all good guys. That's
the moral of the story.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
You've been listening to The Gary and Shannon Show.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
You can always hear us live on KFI AM six
forty nine am to one pm every Monday through Friday,
and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio ap
This is Gary and Shannon and you're listening to KFI
AM six forty, the Gary and Shannon Show on demand
on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What else is going on? Time for what's happening? Wow?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Well, the story that's been followed internationally is the health
of Pope Francis. According to the Vatican, he continues his
recovery from pneumonia. The Vatican set in motion a nightly
marathon of prayers from his house. Allies have been cheering
him on and hopes that he might recover. He might
recover and get back to leading the Catholic Church. The
(00:34):
typical morning briefing was very brief. All it said was
the Pope slept well all night.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
That's awful. Yeah, that's awful.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
A fresh search for the Malaysia flight Malaysia Airlines Flight
three seventy. Remember, a fresh search has been launched. More
than a decade after that plane went missing. The exploration
firm Ocean Infinity of resume the hunt for the missing plane.
There have been so many conspiracy theories about this one
(01:07):
the Malaysia. The country says that it welcomes the proactiveness
of the firm to deploy their ships to begin the search.
They don't know how long this is going to last.
They don't know why or when they decided to kick
off this latest hunt. But this was the Boeing Triple
seven carrying two hundred and thirty nine people that just
(01:29):
vanished from radar screens. It was March twenty fourteen. It
was en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Margin in aviation history.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
They a couple of different things.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Obviously, one of the theories was that the pilot himself went
rogue and put this thing in the ocean pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Others had suggested.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
That it landed somewhere and all of the people were
absconded to March. I don't know whatever their plane, whatever
their crazy series where Occham's razor comes into play. It's
probably just an airplane that crashed into the ocean. Unfortunately,
it crashed into a place on the Earth that is
(02:12):
not covered by airplane radar the way it exists now.
One of the things that you weren't here last week,
but I talked with with Jay Ratlif, the iHeartRadio aviation analyst.
We were talking about upgrades to the FAA system air
traffic control, et cetera. And he actually pointed to this
Malaysia Airlines three seventy as one of the arguments in
(02:35):
favor of doing satellite tracking on airplanes, on all airliners,
because obviously you'd be able to cover the globe. We
would have a much better indication as to where this
airplane went. But it's a lot easier and a lot
more technologically feasible to be able to put airplane GPS
locators in each airplane and have it, you know, bouncing
(02:58):
off different satellites throughout the core of the world every
single day.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
It's just a better way to do it.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I don't know what changes in the world of these
searchers where they think now is the time to go
back out and find it, except that it would simply
be on a no find, no fee principle, which means
if they don't find the airplane, they don't get paid
for it. Apparently the Indianesia, sorry, the Malaysian government said
that they would write a check for seventy million dollars
(03:26):
if the company finds the airplane.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeahvin Newsom has launched a new state website. This is
kind of taking a page from Elon Musk's book. This
is something Newsome will trot out when he tries to
appeal to the moderates in this country when he runs
for president. It's kind of like a transparent way to
see how your money's being spent when it comes to homelessness.
(03:50):
It's going to be a website that tracks county progress
on homeless county by county snapshots of spending on behavioral health, homelessness,
and how it provides information on spending in all fifty
eight counties across the state. So that when people can
say the Gavenusom, look at your stated some mess, look
at the homelessness, he can say, look, I met the
(04:12):
moment in real time. I put together a website that
tracks the spending of the money that voters have approved to.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Fix this problem.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
However, the California State Association of Counties said that this
website is just a spin without substance to back exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
There's gonna be no substance, There's gonna be no transparency.
This is just Gaven Newsom saying he's done a thing. Yeah,
there's no The emperor has no clothes. When it comes
to this transparency website, I'll tell you that there's gonna
be very scant information release to there.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
There is a bunch of hand ringing going on about
a homeless guy who finally had his homeless encampment torn down. Finally,
the man was positioned just off the one ten Freeway,
said he'd been there for five years and never been
bothered until Friday, received note that that day while he
was at work, never got any follow up afterwards, and
when he woke up morning Monday morning, crews were already
(05:06):
there and they took almost everything, leaving behind some of
the tools that he actually needs for his job. He
said he's not sure what caused them to suddenly evict
them from the area, and he had no idea where
he can go.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
Now.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
If you've seen this, by the way.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
It looked like it was made, it looked like the
side of a house because of everything that he had
done there. There were piles of precisely placed rocks that
separated his finger quotes property from the embankment of the royo.
Seko said he had a bathtub, said he had a
working kitchen. Trust me, you didn't. And they can't figure
(05:41):
out why. Gosh, I don't know why. After five years,
this guy finally be guess he shouldn't have been there.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
In the first place. He should not have.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Been allowed to post a makeshift home in the first place.
This reminds me of remember those abandoned towers. I think
there was supposed to be condo towers in downtown LA
where graffiti tower. Yes, every floor was covered with graffiti. Well,
there's a new one in it's either going to be
(06:10):
Studio City somewhere. It's just south of the one thirty
four freeway as you're driving through the valley here. And
it used to be a big bank building, used to
be a big Washington Mutual when Washington Mutuals the thing
was taken over by another bank. Now since they've taken
the name plate off of it, it's an abandoned building.
And if you look closely, it's covered with graffiti on
(06:33):
the inside of the windows. So if you're looking at
it from a distance, you can't really tell. You get
closer and you slow down on the freeway, Please don't
slow down on the freeway.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
That's part of my way home.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
But you can tell it's destroyed on the inside, one
hundred percent covered by graffiti. And people who would argue
something like, well that's just the way Los Angeles is.
It's like an art form out of the that's what's wrong.
That's what's wrong with this place.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Now, that's just where you go to do drugs for
three weeks and no one will find you.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I don't want to.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
It's not for you. It's not what those places are
built for.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
An online content creator has been charged with criminal mischief
for I usually don't like to shed light on online
content creators, but this is a good story.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Well just don't say what the name is. That way,
there you go.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
This person has been charged with criminal mischief a female
I will add because it adds to the story, for
allegedly making disturbing videos of her contaminating store products by
urinating on them. This is an investigation and a product
recall that dates back to four years ago. There was
(07:46):
an anonymous tip regarding a woman twenty three years old
who had posted disturbing videos to her Internet site of
her peeing on items in a local business.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Let's get this, monad Knock Food co Op has you
shoot a voluntary recall for their red Kinwa, white Kinwa, Tricolor, Quenoa, cornmeal, polenta,
coconut shreds, and raw walnuts.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
How much urine nebra tebra.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yes, yes, this is like your ale of the store.
Do you ever think about who's been urinating?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Noo?
Speaker 4 (08:22):
I no, I don't want.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
To think of that.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I mean that polenta may come with a side of urine,
the raw walnuts you put on your salad urine walnuts?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
E god?
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I mean, why would you pee on the keen wah?
Speaker 6 (08:40):
I don't understand what does quenua do to you? I mean,
we have somebody pissed off at keenwak.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Question? There you go. I have a question.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
In these vegan markets, it's the keen wa just exposed.
It's not like in a box. It could be like
in a bin.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
I don't go to vegan markets, but the keen wa
that I buy is usually a in a bag.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I don't think I've ever seen it in an open somewhere.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
And well, you haven't been to the Mono Doc food
co Op, which sounds pretty exposed, doesn't It sounds like
you what would be out and open for everyone to
see and feel and touch and pee on.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I guess it's a vegan hater.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Maybe maybe yeah, maybe she does look like she has
color in her cheeks when I'm looking at this mug shot.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
She may eat meat. Color of my you do?
Speaker 5 (09:30):
You do?
Speaker 4 (09:30):
I'm sorry that was a low shot, all right, I
didn't mean it about you.
Speaker 7 (09:35):
There are some vegan zebra. You have to agree that
you lack color. Absolutely, they they yes. It's almost like
some people who are on some of those weight loss
you know, drugs, and how they look very gaunt.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Right, there are some vegans that look that way.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Right, you have a beautiful color and glow to you
when we come back our philosophical question of the day, Gary.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Gerry looks more like the vegan Why wait?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Why?
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Because you have a lighter skin.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I spent all weekend in Arizona in the sunshine.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
I haven't seen you. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I'm pasty white, you're alway.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
I've never seen you in a tan. It's either pasty
white or sunburn.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It's it's pretty good gas. Actually, Oh, Gary Shennon.
Speaker 8 (10:18):
Well in the coast of Asia here, I listen to
you talking about the touring you know, Sharia and the
other torture countries where they take you to bombed out
tourist attractions and whatever. What if you wanted to go
like Auschwitz or bad the tour there is that like
(10:41):
in the same scale as you guys were talking about morning.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
Gary Shennon, Yeah, I agree, it is kind of sick
to go through that place. But what is it the
difference of going to the Holocaust over in Germany to
those camps where they killed a lot of people?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
What about that?
Speaker 5 (10:56):
What's explained the difference between Because I'm kind of confused him,
though I do agree with you though.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
HI have a good day. That's your philosophical question for
the day.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I think it's because people who go see the places
involved with the Holocaust feel a sense of connection to
them because of their relatives were there or on either uh,
their relatives were involved.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
I also think it's because I don't want to say
it was a happy ending, but the good guys won.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I don't think it comes any part in going to
see the Holocaust places, but I mean that there is
that it's not going to happen again, right, I mean,
we hopefully don't.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Go there close.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
No people go there to sit in the sorrow and
realize the hell that people went through.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
But it's only available to them because it ended the
way it did. I mean, if I.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Just don't think that that gets to be put in
the conversation. If you're going to go to a concentration camp,
nobody's thinking like, Oh, we're so lucky that we get
to be here because of the good guys winning, you
know what I mean, Like it's just to go there
and feel like hell, and feel the pain and realize
that you had ancestors that died there or people that
(12:18):
survived that and everything that went.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I think it's just a heavy place.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I think people feel like it's kind of like going
to Pearl Harbor. It's the same thing of just going
there and just there's no silver lining.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
To going to those places.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I don't think, at least when I went to the
Pearl Harbor Memorial, there was no silver lining, you know
what I mean, Like you're standing there and you're just
thinking about everything that happened that day and subsequently.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
And I think.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
That we're more connected to that than going to a
village in Syria or Ukraine, because that's our American history.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Are those things?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
But the other thing, well, I mean American history and
that we helped liberate those those concentration camps.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Right No, But I mean like as opposed to going
to Ukraine and going to right, yeah, you know, the
village where.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
The other aspect of it is it's a safe place
to go, and I mean just physically right now. You
went in twenty twenty five to Booken Vault or something
like that. It's a safe place to go. There's no
threat to your life.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And there is.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
An again I'm using the wrong words, there's a luxury
to be able to go to that place right now
and sit in the sorrow of what happened there. You're
not going to go to a concentration camp that exists
in Siberia today to sit in the sorrow of because
you can't get there. You're not allowed to go there.
(13:41):
I mean, there's a bunch of stuff that goes into it,
but it is also because it was eighty years ago.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
To me, it's one of those it goes under the
umbrella of ridiculously rich, sick entitled people luxuries to say
I'm going to go to Syria and take pictures of
me at the village where two hundreds pavillions were slaughtered
because I could afford the weird travel accommodations, you know,
And it's just who you have to have crazy amounts
(14:09):
of money to make able to be able to make
that trip. Happen, and then who are you showing those
pictures to somebody with your urinated walnuts?
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Like you know, I went to see. I don't know,
what are you trying to do there?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I feel like when I looked at the pictures of
that article in the Telegraph on danger tourism, it was
like all these well to do people buy in large
white who are just like, look at us, We're here
in a beanie in Syria, Like aren't we interesting.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Kind of thing?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Well as opposed to this is me and Bimini or
Bali or something like that, exactly right.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
This is an awful story.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, I know, God, I like I because we were.
Keana gave us a story earlier in the week, which
was yesterday.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
It's been a long one and.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
I was just kind of like just reading through the
beginning parts of it about this couple in Toronto and
they sound lovely and a normal couple that you'd be
friends with, and the kids and the careers and everything,
and okay, it ends in murder, and it's it's so
interesting when you know what the details are, but when
(15:24):
you dig in to the specific details of the details,
how sad and dark it gets.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
This is one of those things.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
My god, there's an aspect of these stories when we
do our true Crime Tuesday stories, there's an aspect of
it that is the worst of humanity.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I mean, there's a there's a darkness to some of
these stories.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
It's just it's scary because you look at these people
and you hear about them, and they seem normal.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
And like we said, class, why do we murder? Love
and money? Usually?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Right, this one's got both of those things. But it's
not just psychopaths that murder people ordinary.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And I think that's what fascinates us about true crime,
as you've got ordinary people living ordinary lives, and sometimes
they're the victim of a horrendous murder and sometimes they're
the perpetrator, and you're thinking, in both cases, how could
this person carry this out? Or how could this person
fall prey to this?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Well, and they point out in this and I think
this is kind of your point, is that we like
to say that anybody who kills is crazy, right, you
have to be a certain level of crazy to take
another person's life. But there are studies that show that
a lot of us, a lot of ninety one percent
(16:45):
of men eighty four percent of women say that they've
had a vivid fantasy of killing someone, and that many
people have confessed that they would actually that they even
played out specific scenarios in their heads, imagine themselves stabbing
or shooting or strangler or whatever.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
But here's where the difference is.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
The cutoff is that the vast majority of us, if
we ever have those thoughts, then think to ourselves, I
could never do that.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
That would be crazy. Not only I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
I say that, I probably say that every day I'm
gonna kill somebody, or I'm gonna kill I'm gonna kill
this person, and it changes from day to day, moment
to moment, but I never actually think practically I'm gonna
kill them.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Is that what you're saying that? What is it? Ninety percent?
Eighty four percent?
Speaker 7 (17:31):
What was that?
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Ninety one percent of men, eighty four percent of women
said that they've actually.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Think about the manner in which they'd kill somebody.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Again, not that I think that's a step too far,
it's just the they've had a vivid moment of fantasy
of killing someone. But then the vast majority of us go,
I could never do that. And that's where it ends
for most people. Is that I've never thought.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
About how to kill somebody.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
I've never thought about like, am I gonna strangle them
or stab them?
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Like? That's that's the next level, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
But you haven't thought about how to get away with it?
Speaker 4 (18:04):
No?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I have not. Oh you haven't.
Speaker 8 (18:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Oh maybe I took step two and then I decided
that that would be crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Now this couple.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
In fact, Jacob, just so you know, we're not even
gonna play the thing just because I don't want to.
I don't want to make fun of this story because
it is there are some pretty dark elements to it.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
So let's just get into who these people are. James
Schwamm born into a great family. Grandparents devout Christians. They
ran a nice foundation, they were very into education, they
ran hospice care, addiction recovery treatment. Just just a really
great family. And he was a firefighter. He had been
(18:44):
promoted by the early twenty tens to acting captain.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
He was an effective leader, they say.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
The people that worked with him, quick, decisive when responding
to calls on his watch. The workplace was jovial, supportive.
He was the guy that would grow out mustache for November.
He was just that guy, you know, he was the
firehouse guy, and he was great at what he did
and he was good for the community.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Ashley, on the other hand, she grew up in Toronto.
It's not that she didn't have money, it was just
a different kind of family. She was an avid hiker,
very athletic tennis player, piakers fan, a warm young woman
with an electric smile. Her mom died of cancer when
she was younger, when Ashley was younger, in two thousand
and four. But they said Ashley was the glue that
(19:30):
kind of held the family together. She had a reputation
for lending support, but without the sugar coating. So her
three siblings, the cousins, and all these friends would come
to her in the event that they had ever had
a fight within the family. She was the one that
would would smooth everything over. She would dole out wisdom.
Friend said that Ashley was someone you could talk to
(19:51):
about what was going on in your life. She would
sing and dance around the house. She talked about buying
a farm. She wanted to start an animal sanctuary.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
We lit up the room when she walked in.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
She was a good, good person and that that laugh
is kind of what originally caught Jamie's attention. He and
Ashley were skiing together. They would grab drinks in the
city of Toronto, and they started doing the thing that
you do when you're young and you're serious, and you go,
what would it be like to be married?
Speaker 4 (20:22):
So they dream of having kids.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
They end up buying the first house together, a new
building Collingwood.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
They got engaged.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
They had this beautiful wedding, Ashley saying that she felt
like a princess was picturesque. She arrived in a horse
drawn carriage to the wedding.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
The whole bit.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
The next several years went as they planned. James promoted
full time to fire captain. She designed homes. They got
a dog, Rocco. They started a family vers a son
and a daughter. Moved into a bigger house that backed
into a hiking trail, which they enjoyed. Everything that they
had planned in those early dates that you spoke of.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, but it's not always sunshine and puppy dogs, because
life can be a grind sometimes and they found that out.
The managing of the household, expenses, the kids and their
extra curriculars, the long commutes, the long hours firefighters are
doing twenty four hours on, maybe seventy two off, and
that can take a toll as well. And every once
(21:22):
in a while, kind of as a hobby, he would
take a job at a small engine shop and kind
of keep himself busy.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Well, Ashley kept herself busy.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
She took a new job at a company that constructs
custom homes cottages Gichalaise, and she started hanging out with
her boss and hooking up with her boss. Yeah, about
six months after she started working there, they began an affair.
And now, as you can imagine, with the custom home market,
they're on the road a lot. They're visiting projects, plenty
of time for their extra curriculars. For a few months,
(21:55):
James and this guy's wife, Alexandra had no idea, but
then they found out Alexandra files for divorce. James and
Ashley think they're gonna work things out. She finds a
new job, thank god. They start going to couples counseling,
individual therapy, but James. It's taking a toll on James,
(22:15):
and then his temperament at work begins to show cracks.
He starts treating people with condescension. He's drinking more than usual,
he's distant, he's self involved, but they're like, you know what,
We're gonna give him some slack. The rigors of the
job and everything. It's just a lot. Maybe he'll come around.
He's just going through a phase. But then it gets worse.
He tells his mom in twenty twenty two, around Christmas,
(22:37):
he doesn't think he and Ashley are going to make it. She,
at the same time, is telling her family that she's
thinking about leaving James.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Well, that's roughly the time that James started hooking up
with the original guy's wife. Remember when Ashley started an
affair with her boss. The boss's wife filed for divorce.
James kept her and con kept in contact with her,
and they wanted to start a little something. His marriage
(23:08):
wasn't working. He said that he was going to make
a decision. He's going to do what would make him happy.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
James is weighing his options. He's thinking staying with Ashley,
this is an untenable situation, but divorce. I don't want
to untangle myself financially, custody of the kids, all of
that stuff. So he started desperately thinking to find another
way out.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Telling a story of James Schwam firefighter from a good
family up in the Toronto area and the Blue Mountains
in Ontario. His wife of several years, Ashley Milns, ends
up having an affair with her boss. They decide to
stick it out and actually try to get try to
get things back on track, but after about a year
(23:54):
or so, they decide that they're going to go their
separate ways. She has confided to her family she's thinking
about leaving him. He and up starting an affair with
the boss's ex wife at the time, and doesn't want
to get a divorce. Told a friend that a divorce
was unimaginable. Well, he's set in motion a very strange plan.
(24:14):
Among other things, he walked over to his mom's house
at one point she lived nearby, and decided to take
mom's car and park it at the elementary school.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
That's weird.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Well, the morning of January twenty fifth, everything's normal, kids
get ready for school, Ashley goes to work, She goes out,
walks the dog. Sorry, he goes to work, She goes out,
walks the dog. Several hours later, at nighttime, they're arguing
(24:50):
and one of the kids wakes up. Who's then he's
then nine, sees mom and Dad, Ashley asks him to
go into her bedroom and fetch her phone so she
could call the police. Ashley never got the chance to
call nine one one, the sun goes back to the bedroom,
James grabs her and strangles her to death. At one point,
(25:13):
one of the kids hears Dad say what time is it, Alexa,
And as he remembers it, the speaker said three am.
And sometime in the next two hours, James had dressed
Ashley in hiking clothes, put her in her car, and
taken her out to a trailhead.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Now imagine that just all the work, I mean horrific
murder in this all happening in front of the children,
and all of that aside, all of the work and
the orchestration that goes into this.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, the planning, even if you did it in a
moment of passion, and then to have the wherewithal to
do all of this. He was sending text messages using
her phone to him, Hey, I'm leaving Alcia soon. I'm
gonna zip out. I think the kids are fine sleeping.
Sorry about yelling at you. My hikes are important.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
So even if you had premeditated all that and doing
all that, actually doing it, you would think would paralyze you.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
He drives her car to a parking lot, cracks open
the window, douses it with gasoline, ends up pushing it
or driving it off of a road, walks down the road.
Remember this is Toronto in January, so there's snow all
over the place, leaving footprints. Throws a lighter inside the truck,
burns the whole thing up. She's inside, crumpled in a
(26:38):
ball in the footwell on the passenger side. When they
find it, that's mysterious. They also find his initials on
the lighter that was used to start the fire. He meanwhile,
had gone back to the elementary school, picked up mom's car,
grabbed the kids, Hey kids, everybody's having fun, good breakfast,
(27:00):
and then takes them to school. It was work that
originally reported that she hadn't shown up, and he had
gone to work as well, And that's kind of where
they caught up with him.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Him calling her parents and faking tears, saying that the
daughter had died in a plane run, the fact a
car wreck, the fact that he didn't think that the
police could do the forensic investigation of his phone and everything,
and realizing that he had a motive in all this,
and it being relatively small town where everybody knew everyone's business,
(27:39):
and everyone knew what was going on with Ashley and
with this marriage and everything, you thought.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
That you'd hide it.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah, I mean, just even if and the cell.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Phone tracking that exists these days, knowing where those text
messages came from and the time of day they were sent,
and everything.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
And everybody, the ubiquity of doorbell cameras. I mean, there
were people that saw him literally walking away from the
flaming vehicle early that morning, I mean, running out there
in the wilderness when no one should have been out there.
It would have been way too cold anyway. And friends
who said there's no way that she would go hiking
(28:15):
pre dawn. That's not what she did. She would always
wait until after the kids were at school. She would
wait until a daytime because she knew that that was
the safe way to do it.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
What a mess all the way around.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
He, by the way, has been in custody now since
February of twenty twenty three, attempted suicide multiple times.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Oh which, by the way, the attorneys that are representing
him have said that that is proof that he's remorseful.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And shouldn't stay in prison for very long.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Well, lawyers will say anything, right, good lord.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
In Canada, they don't have the death penalty, so the
judge decided that he should be in prison, eligible four
parole after twenty one years.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
What an awful person.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Just get a divorce. Just get a divorce. You know
what's cheaper divorce than living murder?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
A divorce. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
The kids, by the way, are living with her younger brother,
apparently a young couple that had gotten married, so now
they have kids.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
How old are the kids now?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
They would only be like ten and seven according to
the mask.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
That's horrific. Well, see, Canadians aren't all good guys. That's
the moral of the story.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
You've been listening to The Gary and Shannon Show.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
You can always hear us live on KFI AM six
forty nine am to one pm every Monday through Friday,
and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio ap
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