April 17, 2025 • 40 mins
Brian Noe & Geoff Schwartz are in for the guys and talk about the fallout from Tennessee QB Nico Iamaleava wanting more money and forcing his way into the transfer portal, Mavs GM Nico Harrison saying he doesn't regret the Luka trade, the idea of the Titans passing on Cam Ward, and more!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the best of two pros and a couple
Joe with Lamar Airings rating Win and Jonas Knox on
box or Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So our guy, quarterback Nico Yama Leava, looks like he's
probably gonna head to UCLA, right, former Tennessee quarterback. And
it's not official yet, but they're they're making lovey dovey
eyes together. Right, Nico is kind of like batting his eyes.
Ucla is returning the favorite look, oh yeah, kind of
(00:34):
interested in each other. Looks like that's probably where he's
gonna end up, Jeff, And there are a lot of
layers to this right where it seems like he upped
his asking price, wanted a new NIL deal, some something
with more cash at Tennessee. Tennessee said you threw nineteen
touchdown passes last season. No, we're not doing that. We're
(00:56):
not like doubling your paycheck. So he hit the portal.
Looks like he's gonna end up at UCLA. I'm curious
where you initially start to think about this as an
ex player, because I'm very pro player on this one.
Where look just like the NFL, even if you have
some sort of NIL agreement in place, if you outperform
(01:17):
your agreement and you've got leverage, and you want to
sit out and force the hand of the school, the
nil collective, what have you to get more cash. If
you've got the leverage and you take advantage of it,
I really don't have a problem with it. It turns
out Nico he's not the guy that had that leverage
(01:37):
that could force his hand and get the more money.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
But other players will have that leverage.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
And just like the NFL, Hey, if the NFL can
cut you, I don't have a problem with you holding
out for more money when you outperform your contract. It's
just Nico wasn't the guy to do that in college.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
So the reason why this is such a big deal
is a couple things, but mostly just because we haven't
had this situation happen in college football yet. Where As
you mentioned, this is a pro model. Right, a player
is being paid X amount of money and there have
been players that have that have asked for more money. Uh,
(02:17):
but they're you know, they're linebackers, they're running backs, and
they just get you know, they get what's called processed, right,
they get that that's what collegeable coaches call basically cutting players.
They process them out of their of their building now
and it's just done quietly, right, It's just done quietly.
But because it's a quarterback, and because Nico's deal was
(02:38):
the first one in the New world that felt just
very paid for play right. So so Niel namage likeness
was originally designed and you knew immediately it would be
abused and the but it was originally designed for a
player to market themselves, okay, and make money. So you know,
(03:01):
Fox Sports Radio is wants to hire to hire Jeff
Schwartz as a college offensive lignment from Oregon to do
a couple of radio spots locally Eugene. There's a Fox
Sports Radio and Eugene, and you get paid a thousand
dollars to do it, and it might be more than
you would make otherwise, but you know, you get you
go to a car dealership or you a local eatery.
And that's the way it was designed to be. And
(03:22):
of course the system would be abused almost immediately. Camp
situation where where you be paid for play right, where
a team says, hey, man, well we'll make you sign
those autographs, but we'll give you two mill dollars a year
to do so, you know, and Nico's was so loudly expensive.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
The reported asking price was eight million dollars at the time, right,
And they ended up being confirmed to be correct. And
so there was already that those eyeballs to a situation
at Tennessee because of those numbers. And then the story
comes out that he wanted more money. Now they they
will tell you his side will say no, no, no, we
don't want more money. And this is where I think
(04:01):
that just be honest with us, because the the the
reasons that his side is giving for this breakup. Our
Tennessee's offense does not prepare their son for because it's
mostly from the parents side, right, who are his agent.
He doesn't prepare our son for the NFL. And so
(04:23):
two things here that are are silly. One is that
the reason why the offense didn't work last year's your
son didn't play well enough. Okay, So that's that's a
that's that's the reason why. But two, have you watched
any of the college offenses around the country, Like should
dear Sanders plays in a horrific offense in Colorado. It
is so poorly designed, does not matter. You know, we've
(04:44):
seen players go to go from air raid offenses. We've
seen players get drafted with no wide receiver help. We've
seen we've seen all these players get drafted with no
offensive line help with the college offenses are terrible. There
there there are college offenses that are Jackson Dart for example. Okay,
old Miss probably will be a first round pick. His
offense is like ninety seven percent exaling a little bit
(05:06):
of course RPOs and play action packs. It's not a
pro offense, Brian. It doesn't matter if it matters how
the quarterback plays and then the talent that you can
project off of that play to the NFL. So I
just wish they would own it, Brian and just be like, yeah,
we want more money. It didn't work out. Oh well
it's a pro model. We're leaving. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
And I don't know why both schools.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Schools are at least ahead of this, Like Ryan Day
last year, will openly say, hey, we need more money
if you want to sign these players, we need a
lot more catch. The schools will openly talk about at
least the coaches will openly talk about needing more money
for a legit roster fueled by nil. I don't know
why the players don't. It's still like this outdated thought
(05:53):
of not us, we weren't asking for more money. It's
like you can, it's legal. What's the problem if you're
holding out for more cash, which you clearly were, what's
the problem with saying, yeah, we were doing it. We
overestimated the market. I guess, I don't know. We thought
it would be okay, wasn't okay. We're picking ourselves back up.
(06:13):
But there's nothing wrong with asking for more money. But
these these kids are like, no, not us, I would
not ask for Why Why are you hiding behind a
clear lie? Of course you were asking for more cash?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I think it's it's it's it's sort of twofold here, right,
it's still a sort of taboo for players to openly
ask for money. It's all done behind the scenes. Right,
Also do these collectives? You know, a lot of states
have like laws shielding the capability to learn about these deals, right,
even because there's you know, there's talks about a register,
(06:49):
which I don't necessarily agree with, but you know, you'd
register all your deals, and I think you actually have
to with the double A, but it's very secretive and
on what you actually get. You know, same with like
you know, NFL do right, Like the agent says what
it is, and you realize, you know, Stefan Diggs three years,
seventy million dollars, it's like actually a one year idea
for twenty million, you know, Like, I mean, part of
it is that too. But I think the kids, there's
(07:13):
still a large section of college football fans that have
a problem with the market dictating what the price for
these players are. Look, is paying a high school quarterback
too millars a year a lot of money? Yeah, I
think it is. But it's not my money, right Brian,
And that doesn't affect my life at all. If Organ,
(07:36):
I'm an Organ fan, or you're an Irish fan wants
to pay you know, CJ. Carr, Dante Mora two quarterbacks
two millars a year, who cares? It's not my money.
I'm I it's it's it's a it's a booster's money.
And and then I think the other interesting part about
this whole situation is so July one, twenty twenty one,
is when the Supreme Court essentially allowed players to make
(07:59):
money the first years before the first year collaetable starts
in twenty twenty one. That year was traditional nil deals
that we saw and then obviously they pay for play.
So we're basically into year four this summer of the
pay for play structure that we have right now, and
the money is flowing. Man, those guys are making backups
are getting six figures at Power five conference and Powerful
(08:21):
conference schools. Like it's flowing. Guys are making money. And
the question I always had about this process, and I
think we're starting to see it with Nico. This might
change the tide of things. That's why maybe why players
don't want to talk about the money's muck because I
want to try to keep it as quiet as possible,
is that at some point I thought, and we're sticking
to a situation here where these money, the people that
(08:42):
donate the money, they want to return on investment. Now
it's a different return on investment than obviously putting in
the stock market, because you know, these are billionaires that
their toy is their college football program. They love, you know,
and they're trying to win championships and they have the
money to help the program do that. They want prestige,
they want access to the program, right, and you get
access to the program through paying the players and whatnot. Okay, fine,
(09:06):
but the return on investment on some of these deals,
to me, was never going to happen. It was going
to get to a point where boosters are like, I mean,
I have the disposed of income, but I really want
to spend two minds on quarterback that that doesn't win
us enough games. And I think we're seeing that here too,
where Tennessee's and Boosters are like, a, NA, we're good.
(09:29):
And I wonder if it has a trickle down effect
to some other places that are paying players too much
money and the Boosters say the return of investment is
just not there. We're scaling back on how much we
invest in the players.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, well, yeah, there could be a ripple effect on this.
I think that some of it. We always talk about
quarterback deals in the NFL resetting the market, right, We're
always talking about that, like, oh, Dak Prescott just got
an extension, he reset the quarterback market, so on, and
so I think this could sort of reset the quarterback
(10:04):
market to a degree. In college football at least, you're
gonna have to have players that put up better numbers,
are more productive, and then if they want to pull
a Nico and hold out for more cash, then they
might reset the market. But with him holding out and
Tennessee giving him the Heisman stiff arm, you know, like
that does, at least for now, reset the market as
(10:26):
of right now. I just think, listen, it's one of
these deals where there are some unintended consequences with NIL. Obviously,
when it comes to college sports, I think that's the
least they can do. These players are bringing in so
much money in college football and they're not seeing a
dime of it. They're just making a buck off their name,
(10:47):
image and likeness. That's the least they should be able
to do. Now. It does lead to some unintended problems,
But you think about these agreements with the NIL, between
the school or the koalac and the player, it's sort
of these handshake deals where it's like, yeah, we'll pay
you x amount, and well, if the player underperforms, maybe
(11:08):
UNLV just doesn't pay. At least that's according to Matthew
Sluka remember the guy who left there, And it's like, well,
what happens if the collective just doesn't make good on
what they promised?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Really nothing?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
What happens if the player outperforms the expectations and holds
out for more cash? Like there are a lot of
people that are banging the table for more legislation, and
it's like, look, this happens in the NFL all the time.
You have these legally binding contracts and players still hold
out from more cash. Teams still cut players left and right.
(11:45):
Even if you had more uniformed quote unquote contracts in
college football, you can still have these things happening. So
I don't know, man, it's the wild West right now,
and I think the unintended consequences for a lot of people,
it turns into you know what, I knew it was
gonna be a problem when these players started making money,
and it's like that's what they deserve and you're just
(12:07):
gonna have to deal with some of the unintended consequences.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Arrington and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
How embarrassing is this, Jeff where apparently it was the
Mavericks governor who initiated He called the code red basically right,
he called for like this very invite only meeting with
the media where a John and Bob can be there
nobody else and don't record it like this is very
(12:47):
hush hush behind closed doors here. And that's where Nico
Harrison said, Hey, no regrets. Defense wins championships. We had
a bunch of injuries. No one can see my vision
with eight D and Kyrie, and as if those guys
are typically healthy, which they aren't. So he stands by this.
He can't say anything else, Jeff. He can't say, you
(13:08):
know what, now that we've had a couple of months,
I do regret trading him in the first place, or
not getting top value for the guy. He can't say that.
But don't be dumb enough to buy this. He's not
gonna sit here and be like, yeah, you know what,
I do have some regrets. He has to, like pound
the two. No regrets at all. Of course he has regrets.
How could he not? How could you be a GM
(13:29):
and not regret trading Luca for top dollar.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
You have to regret that.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Of course, of course he does. He's he he of
course he does. There are a lot of things that
that happened, like during COVID that I think, uh non
obviously obviously very serious things. But like the governor thing
happened during COVID, Right, they change the name from owners
to governors. I think is that the timeline card. Is
it before COVID that.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I'm not sure, but somewhere around there.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Yeah, they own the team, owners of the team, like
call them owners. It's just it's some of those changes,
Like it's just so silly to me, like we can't
be adults about they own the team. That's the connotation.
They're owners of the of the NBA team that they owned,
that they bought, that's what they owned. They owned the players,
they owned the team. So dumb governors. Okay, I am
(14:22):
a Lakers fan. Okay, Brian, as we have noted many
times working together, I'll mention it Sunday, just everyone knows
again and tomorrow morning. I will never understand how this happened.
I'm very grateful what happened, but there's there's no way
to sell the It's not like they traded away a
thirty seven year old. He is twenty five years old. Okay,
(14:48):
defense was championships. Sure, SODA's making a lot of three
pointers and Soda scoring one hundred and twenty five thirty
points a game, and you can build a team team
around Luca that's really good defensively and let Luca be himself,
like you can do all those things. They are all
(15:08):
possible in the NBA. Not every superstar is the best
defender ever, and that's okay. You build a team around, right,
that makes up That's what a quality team does, right, Brian.
You have deficiencies, you find players to bring in to
help those deficiencies, and you roll with a superstar. And
it's just shocking they win this because it's such a
(15:28):
short term high for the for Nico eventually to build
this defensive team, because they're not winning a championship with
a d and Kyrie and Klay Thompson. You're winning a
championship with Luca and whoever else around Luca. So it's
still shocking this trade happened. It's even more shocking when
(15:49):
you know the Lakers are I think, are gonna play
well this postseason outside of obviously Okac in Western Conference
Finals potentially and Dallas is obviously. Now they's some injuries
and one on I get that, but I mean fighting
to make the postseason. Brian. It's gonna be as one
of the worst trades, NBA history, and I don't know
there's any explanation it's ever going to make sense to anybody.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
No, but your point is is so good where there
are even superstars where you have drawbacks, right, Like was
Tom Brady scrambling around like Lamar Jackson or anything close
to that? No, you build around, Yeah, but you build
your team around that. Look at Josh Allen, My mind
(16:31):
goes to football. Of course, how could it not, but
the Bills quarterback. This was popular last off season. There
was talk that he was overrated and oh, you look
at some of the turnovers and it's it's like, bro,
if you look at all the turnovers, he had like
forty four total touchdowns, Like the what would it be
the twenty three season when we're talking about it last
(16:51):
offseason he had somewhere around like forty four touchdowns and
the total turnovers, It's like, dude, he's You're coming out
well ahead with the rushing ability, the total touchdowns, the
passing yardage, all that stuff. Yeah, is there a dumb
mistake here.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Of their shirt?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
You're gonna have to live with that. Like we saw
this in the play in tournament. Zach Edy is far
from a star, you know, the seven foot three or whatever.
He is a big man for the Grizzlies. They're hunting
zach Edy, They're putting him in pick and roll situations,
and he's just like, oh gosh, I'm supposed to guard
a guard. No, thank you. They're chewing him up. But
(17:29):
he got seventeen rebounds and so there's some give and
some take. He's not Luca is a superstar. Zach Edy
is just a guy, you know, like Steph Curry is
not a lockdown defender, but you build around him. And
that's why they were so successful for so long. That
the anti Luca people and they're out there. Most everybody's like, wow,
(17:52):
what a trade. The MAVs are dumb. But there are
some anti Luca people out there that are like, he's
donuts don chicic.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
He plays no defense.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
It's like who cares?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Look at what.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
He's bringing offensively, who cares? It just doesn't make any
sense whatsoever. And for the MAVs, that's how the MAVs
viewed him. The MAVs viewed him like that, that's insanity.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
It really is, you know, I know, have we gotten
like the definitive like Maverick side of this, yet it's
basically the definitive side that they just thought he was
out of shape and overweight. I mean, I guess, I
don't know, I just he's The thing about it, too,
(18:40):
is that you know, Brian like athletes, you know, they
reached their sort of physical maturity most often in their
late twenties. And you know, I imagine that Luca's body is
gonna look a lot different, you know, twenty eight, twenty
nine than it is now, and he just took no consideration.
(19:01):
And also too, like, Okay, you know he's making a
lot of money, You've invested a lot in him. The
idea that you just can't hire people to help him
like makes no sense to me, Like, hire people who
can help him achieve the physical you know, nature that
you want him to be, and they just like are like,
nah no, we're just gonna blame someone. It just it
(19:22):
makes it does not make sense to me whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
That's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I'll never get it. So what's so funny to me
is I didn't think about this until you said that.
But you'll see certain athletes and you're like, okay, maybe
they're just athletic freaks, and you think he's not gonna
be able to do that forever. And then what Like
take Lamar Jackson for instance, he is an unbelievable athlete,
(19:50):
and you have to wonder, like take Russell Wilson. Russell
Wilson was never a dynamic as an athlete like Lamar Jackson.
But in his younger days, he could buy top way
better than he is right now. He could extend plays
and he could make a lot of things happen. And
now that you're seeing him in his you know, later thirties,
you're like, oh, he can't buy time the same way.
(20:12):
He's a different quarterback, right Like, so I can understand
the thinking if you look at Lamar and say, well,
what happens when he's half the athlete that he is
right now? Then what kind of quarterback do you have?
That makes sense? If you look at Luca, his game
translates to old He already has the old man game.
So you know, even if the conditioning isn't great, even
(20:35):
if he's like a comparable body type or body weight
eight ten years from now, he's still gonna be a baller.
Like you still know he's gonna be incredibly productive because
he doesn't rely on just sheer athleticism.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yo, kitch yo could.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I don't know why we're just like pointing fingers at Luca.
Oh no defense, Look, he is an offensive savant just
like Jokis Yolkics doesn't give you great like lockdown defense.
No one's talking trash about him and making any sense.
But I just I find that to be so funny
(21:14):
where the maps are just like, well, it's really not
dedicated to his conditioning, And I mean, who knows where
that goes? Five years from now, you already know where
it's gonna go. He's gonna be probably a similar body type,
and he's still gonna be able to get your buckets
because he doesn't need to rely on sheer athleticism. It's
just there's no explanation for the MAVs.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Think there's none, and they can continue to say that
they have this this you know this what they keep claiming.
It's you know, it's uh, it's the defense. I mean,
it's just just the the team. Is Boston still the
favorites to win the championship?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
No, okay, okay, and they.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Do play defense, but you know, like the Celtics is
just like they make enough threes in a given game
it's yea right, Yeah, to focus on defense like this
and lieu of the superstar. And you know, again, like
we've talked about in many different ways in the last
ten minutes, you know, the the lack of creativity to
(22:18):
figure out a way to keep Luca and play it
the way you want to be is still staggering, Brian,
because good organizations figure it, figure it out. And you
know what's was so stunning when the Lakers went to
Dallas like two weeks ago, the Mavericks fans were openly
(22:38):
cheering for Luca in the Lakers' uniform. Yeah, I've never
seen it in my life, Like like you you let
a player, yeah, you let a player walk who's beloved
by the fan base too. At twenty five, it wasn't
like a player that the fan base was like, get
rid of this guy. He's not performing, we don't want him,
as you know, we don't want to root for him.
(22:59):
Get rid of a player who the fan base adored,
and Luca wanted to be there. I think he still
would be like, yeah, take me back if you could.
But it's just the whole thing, like do we not
think the Lakers have been an organization over the years
and has been great for superstars as we know. Right,
I'd imagine Lakers said, you know what, Luca, here's a
(23:19):
personal dietitian, here's a chef. Here's like all like, yeah,
we might not like your condition. Guess what, we'll hire
people to help you, Like, we'll make it right because
you're you're you're such basketball player, Like why could the
MAVs do that?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, it's and also the defense wins championships thing. Listen, man,
I think we gotta we gotta get with the times
over here. This isn't you know, like old school nineteen eighties,
nineteen nineties basketball, where you know, like the heat and
the knicks, the like ise sixty eight to sixty five,
(23:57):
like it might be the vital score in some of
those games. Right, this is a different day and age
with the way the games are officiated, the way they're
spaced out, the way teams are shooting threes, the way
big men are shooting you know what I mean. Like,
defense is incredibly important, don't get me wrong, but when
you're looking at the NBA, in the NFL in modern times,
(24:18):
balance wins championships.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
That's the honest truth.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's not just defense and you're not gonna be like
the Patriots and the Rams in a thirteen to three games,
Like that's the exception. You're seeing the Eagles beat the
Patriots forty one to thirty three. You're seeing the Chiefs
a few years ago beat the Eagles thirty eight to
thirty five. There are so many examples where defense didn't
(24:44):
win championships. It's some concoction of balance, Like you've got
to have some offense, you gotta have some defense. You
have to have a blend of both. But this idea
that you can just suck offensively, what does it matter?
As long as you play great defense, you're winning a title.
That's not the way it is in the NFL or
the NBA anymore.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Correct. And of course we're not saying that defense does
not matter at all. Of course it doesn't matter, but
you but that's not the way that I would build
a team to win a championship. You gotta get stops sometimes,
but just you got it got in every sport, man,
the goal should be how to we score the most points,
the most runs, the most you know, the most goals,
(25:25):
like whatever it is, like it's that's the way you
got to build your team. You know what when you know,
when you're rebuilding or you're starting a new Yeah, maybe
a focus on defense a little bit, you know, like
get some toughness, get some physicality in your team. Sure,
you get to a point where you have a superstar
like Luca, you throw everything out and you do what's
what's best to keep that guy and get the most
out of him. And Dallas just punted on it. They
(25:48):
just put they don't have to live on the forever.
The Lakers are not winning championship this year. I think
we agree on that. But they're not. They're a couple
pieces away from winning a championship, right and massive. If
Mark Williams on the roster, we'd feel different about them, right,
I think we agree.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
That would that would help quite a bit, you know,
that would help.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
There are two or three players away. I think you can.
I hate to say this. I feel like a dummy
if if it comes true, but or if it doesn't
come true. But Lebron, I don't think you play like
this for years and years to come. But you're still
you're you're a frontcore piece away. You know, Aston Reeves
is getting better every year. Maybe Dalton takes a step
(26:30):
in year two and you got Luca like, you're close
to winning a championship and if Dallas gonna look so
foolish if the Lakers able to make a run next
couple of years, where you know, Luca win championships for
the Lakers.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Okay, so draft right around the corner, one week away, Jeff,
beautiful thing right here. I was thinking about this with
the number one overall pick. So the Tights are on
the clock. Which do you think is more likely? You know,
years from now, It could be just a couple of
years from now. But down the road, are they more
likely to regret passing on Travis Hunter or will they
(27:16):
regret passing on cam Ward more? You could? You can
do the same exercise with the dual carter. Are the
Titans more likely to regret passing on ab dual Carter
or passing Onward?
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I think we're on the same wavelength.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Yeah, Island right, Yeah, I've so, I've thought about this draft. Obviously,
it's my job and I even I'm doing a mock draft.
I'm actually who would you like to Dolphins to pick
a thirteen? But I'm doing a mock draft today for
Fox Sports. I gotta I'm in the middle of of
doing it during the break, filling in spots. I have
a Dolphins drafting a defensivelignment, by the way, so you'd
(27:54):
be happy about that. Maybe not?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
That's good. Yeah, we need a Dolphins need these dudes
that are physical in the trenches because so they are
lacking massively in that department.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
So I wrote for cam Ward that he might not
be the number one player on everyone's big board, but
he's the number one player at the most important position
in all sports, which is quarterback. And the Titans are
just not gonna overthink this, right, you have to have
(28:28):
a quarterback to compete in National Football League. The Titans
right now have no one for that job. I mean
Will Levis is on the roster. Did we watch Will
Levis play last season? I mean, you're not running back
with Will Levis. You need to have a quarterback. And Brian,
you should draft a quarterback every year until you find one.
It's that important of a position.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And yeah, passing on cam wardon is.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Just not good business. Yeah yeah, Travis Hunter might be
great Outdill Carter might be great, but those two alone
are not winning your championships. Good quarterback does win you
a championship.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
That's true. I'm halfway with you and I'm halfway nine. Okay.
The part that I'm with you on is if you
don't have a legit quarterback, you're not going anywhere. I mean,
that's just the reality in today's NFL. Even when you
go back to the like the Brad Johnson Super Bowl,
the Trent Dilfer super Bowl, those are one all time
(29:25):
defenses with the two thousand Ravens two thousand and two bucks.
Good luck replicating that. But the other thing is, like,
think about two thousand and two thousand and two, that's
a long time ago, Jeff, with the way the rules
change in the NFL, Like, good luck defensively getting away
with what those teams were able to get away with
(29:47):
at that time. You know, I'm not trying to short
change them. They were magnificent defenses, but it's even harder
now to win big with like a modern day Trent
Dilfer or Brad Johnson.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
That's just the reality here.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
And so yeah, I'm with you. You gotta have a
QB in today's NFL.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Got it?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
But is cam Ward that guy? That's the question. I
get that you're taking swings. You gotta take swings until
you get that guy. But you're not just planning for
twenty twenty five. You should be planning for twenty thirty five.
And if you're like, yeah, I don't know about cam
Ward makes some goofy decisions way too often. You could
(30:27):
absolutely end up regretting passing on Travis Hunter or Abdul
Carter in favor of cam Ward. And I halfway get it.
You got to find your QB. But the question is
that guy the guy? And he very well might not be.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
He might not be, but you have to try, like
you have to. You have to. You have to keep
swinging at quarterback until you find one. And what happens
tod be. The inverse, though, I think, is way worse
right where you draft You draft Travis Hunter, Abdual Carter
or a Bill Carter and the Browns take cam Ward
(31:04):
and he's good. Like it's set your franchise back to
fifteen years, you know, it's it's so the inverse of
that I think is much worse than what we're talking about,
which is you went for cam Ward, it didn't work out,
and you know and that that shucks. Well, we'll drift
(31:25):
quarterback again next season, earned two seasons. Whereas the other
way around, which is which is, Okay, we have Travis Hunter,
a good football player, but cam Ward is jade and
Daniels like he's You wouldn't you'd feel so silly, right
if that was the case. So, I mean, look at
I think Bryce Young is gonna be fine with with
the Panthers, but I magic after a year one, they're like,
(31:46):
oh boy, we drafted the wrong quarterback. But that's I
think a much worse spot to be in.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
It could be, and that's the risk that you run.
I mean, you could go back to let's take a
recent draft to twenty three draft. The Colts took Anthony
Rison fourth overall, and that's obviously been a swing and
a miss. Now, they could have had Seahawks cornerback Devin Witherspoon,
they could have had Eagles defensive lineman Jalen Carter. If
(32:12):
they have either of those two players, they're a better
team right now. But if they still don't have a
quarterback doesn't really matter. So to your point, yeah, you
got to keep swinging on quarterbacks. But if you're swing
it's like which it's like, which pitch are you swinging at?
I get that you to get a hit, you gotta
swing the bat.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
But are you.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Swinging at a fastball right down the middle that's in
your like it, that's in your like your hot zone
right there? Or are you swinging at a knuckle curve
outside the zone that you have no chance of hitting?
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Like?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
That's the question here because you could do this exercise
with Shaduur Sanders. The Saints need a quarterback if he's
on the board at ninth. Overall, I mean the same
idea holds true. Where bro, you gotta swing. Okay, fine,
you gotta swing, But is that the right pitch to
swing at? That's the question, and I just I am.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
I'll put it this way.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
If the Titans passed on cam Ward, sure I'd be
concerned he goes elsewhere and turns out to be the
real deal. That would be a nightmare scenario. But I
think it's more likely that Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter they
turn out to be studs. Then cam Ward turns out
to be a stud. And then I ask myself, well,
then why am I drafting cam Ward just like out
(33:30):
of sheer hope. Most of it is hope here when
you're passing on freebium blue Chippers, that's that's a rough position.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Certainly, it's certainly a fair a fair way to look
at it, where like this you are just sort of
hoping for the best with cam Ward, but you hope
you put the infrastructure around him. Look, I think that
if if the Browns were to call to move up
one spot they love cam Ward, maybe you do it.
I mean, I think that if there was an offer
too that was appealing they think about. I don't think
(33:59):
we've seen that yet, and that's probably why we've had
no movement. I think every team still has their original
first round pick, and which is wild. This hasn't been
the longest has ever happened. We might see some moves
at some point. I think that maybe teams training back up.
Look at the Browns don't draft the quarterback at two.
I certainly see them going to pick thirty one or
(34:22):
thirty two and getting you know, you know, someone to
play quarterback for them. So there's there's options there to
make some trades. But it's an interesting draft, Brian. You
know there's about six premium players and that's about it,
and then there's just guys that are good, but you know,
could could be a bus depending on where they go.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
What's your if we shift it from the Titans, what's
your best guess with Shadoor when he goes.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Where he goes?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, you have a gut feeling on that.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Later than than sooner, I think, right, there's I know
those reports is doing it. Probably work with the Giants.
I think they're working on a bunch of quarterbacks. I
think it's just last due due diligence.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
You know that's today.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
You know his I was looking at this earlier as
I was doing mock draft. You know they have this
consensus big board essentially, right, I'll pull it right here.
I mean he's he's not in the top thirty for
most people.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
That's crazy. Yeah, and yeah you're thinking third overall, ninth
overall big board right here.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
I'm gonna pull it up here. So this is a
content's big board. Then they have like a thousand different
people to do a big boy. They just put it
together right, and like he's well, this is not CONTs
this big board. I mean, he's just I've seen ones
with him. Yeah, I'll pull up right here. I mean
he's it's just it's not great, you know, like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
It varies a lot.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
I've seen him in the teens, I've seen him more
years saying even lower than that. You go back to
bo Nicks. A lot of people had him as a
second round talent. Yeah, I mean and good rookie season.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
He's going the first round. Oh yeah, of where he's okay.
So it feels like now the consensus has him going
to the Saints at nine. I I I put in
my in my uh my mock draft, just for fun,
because look, you need to be a little different. Sometimes.
(36:25):
I put the Steelers trading up to eight for for
suar standers. The reports are now that Aaron Rodgers is
considering retirement. Maybe that's to get more leverage, But I
think if he wanted to play for the Steelers, he'd
already be playing for the Steelers. Brian, they need a quarterback.
What are they gonna gona wait to twenty one to
take Jackson Dart So I think the Steelers are really
live to draft Shudar standards and make a leave that
(36:49):
they're they're normally not bold, right, they're normally not a
trade up team. And but what are they gonna do.
They're gonna roll back and just hope there's a quarterback
of twenty one available for them. But if Standers has
not taken you know, two or three, maybe it is
twenty one. Maybe, because once you get past the Saints
at nine, right, and the Saints again could decide to
(37:09):
go Will Johnson or tight end. I mean, there's no
there's no guarantee they're gonna take the quarterback at nine.
He's going all the way to twenty one. There's no
one between nine and twenty one that's drafting a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah, And that's the temptation for the Steelers is you
just wait. It'd be a little bit a little bit
remember the the uh the mac Jones draft where the
Patriots needed a quarterback and they just waited and I
think it was fifteenth overall he was still there and
they were like, well, all right, fine, we'll go. Like
you could see that from the Steelers. Some of these
(37:42):
Saints beat reporters, They're like, they're not drafting a quarterback
at ninth overall, and maybe that's true, maybe that would
become intriguing if they passed.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
Should there is such an interesting prospect because I think
in the like most players, in the right situation, he
can he can rely thrive. But the Saints are unique
because they need to reset their franchise in the worst way.
They have the least amount of cap space in twenty
twenty six coming up, and they need to do this
for years. Brian, if I were them, this is what
(38:15):
I would do. I'd eat this year. You have Calimorias
first season, you set a foundation for what's expected, and
when it comes to the end of training camp, you
are gutting the roster man like you, all the old guys,
you're gone, you're you're traded, you're released, and you try
to build this team up from scratch. Next season, you
(38:37):
try to be you try to be competitive each and
every week. You win four games and you're in the
you know, the tank for archer manding whatever whoever the
next quarterback is. Because Sanders to me for the Saints
doesn't get you any closer to your ultimate goal. And
that's what I would do if I were the Saints.
I the Steelers need a quarterback far more than the
(38:58):
Saints do right now. I mean, the Saints just need
to be bad to reset their franchise.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah, I don't hate that at all. They've had to
do that for a long long time. And we're well
past the day and age of Drew Brees. You know,
you go back. You got to go back to twenty twenty.
That's when they were twelve and four in the playoffs
Drew Brees last year. Since then, they haven't won double
digit games in any season, and that's you know, they
(39:25):
went to seventeen games the year after, they went to
an extra game in twenty twenty one. They haven't gotten
to ten wins in the last four seasons. So I
don't hate that idea at all. Listen, I'm all for
taking swings. It just again, it matters on which pitch
you're swinging at. It depends on which quarterback, How good
(39:45):
of a prospect is he, what pick is it?
Speaker 3 (39:49):
You know that all matters.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I think you know, if you look at the Colts,
this won't happen, Jeff, But the Colts don't have a quarterback.
Anthony Richardson's not your quarterback of the future. Daniel Joe.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Sure, isn't your quarterback of the future.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
I wouldn't let either of those quarterbacks prevent me from
taking a swing at fourteenth overall on Shaudeur Sanders if
he's still there. I think that's absolutely what they should
do where they're picking the prospect, that makes sense to me.
I don't think they will. But to your point, you
do have to keep swinging to find that quarterback of
(40:22):
the now of the future. If you don't have them,
you're screwed. I just I leave a little bit of
space for like, you can't just be swinging from the
heels at any pitch. It depends on the prospect, and
it depends on which pick you have. That does matter
This is the best of two pros and a couple
Joe with Lamar Airings rating Win and Jonas Knox on
box or Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So our guy, quarterback Nico Yama Leava, looks like he's
probably gonna head to UCLA, right, former Tennessee quarterback. And
it's not official yet, but they're they're making lovey dovey
eyes together. Right, Nico is kind of like batting his eyes.
Ucla is returning the favorite look, oh yeah, kind of
(00:34):
interested in each other. Looks like that's probably where he's
gonna end up, Jeff, And there are a lot of
layers to this right where it seems like he upped
his asking price, wanted a new NIL deal, some something
with more cash at Tennessee. Tennessee said you threw nineteen
touchdown passes last season. No, we're not doing that. We're
(00:56):
not like doubling your paycheck. So he hit the portal.
Looks like he's gonna end up at UCLA. I'm curious
where you initially start to think about this as an
ex player, because I'm very pro player on this one.
Where look just like the NFL, even if you have
some sort of NIL agreement in place, if you outperform
(01:17):
your agreement and you've got leverage, and you want to
sit out and force the hand of the school, the
nil collective, what have you to get more cash. If
you've got the leverage and you take advantage of it,
I really don't have a problem with it. It turns
out Nico he's not the guy that had that leverage
(01:37):
that could force his hand and get the more money.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
But other players will have that leverage.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
And just like the NFL, Hey, if the NFL can
cut you, I don't have a problem with you holding
out for more money when you outperform your contract. It's
just Nico wasn't the guy to do that in college.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
So the reason why this is such a big deal
is a couple things, but mostly just because we haven't
had this situation happen in college football yet. Where As
you mentioned, this is a pro model. Right, a player
is being paid X amount of money and there have
been players that have that have asked for more money. Uh,
(02:17):
but they're you know, they're linebackers, they're running backs, and
they just get you know, they get what's called processed, right,
they get that that's what collegeable coaches call basically cutting players.
They process them out of their of their building now
and it's just done quietly, right, It's just done quietly.
But because it's a quarterback, and because Nico's deal was
(02:38):
the first one in the New world that felt just
very paid for play right. So so Niel namage likeness
was originally designed and you knew immediately it would be
abused and the but it was originally designed for a
player to market themselves, okay, and make money. So you know,
(03:01):
Fox Sports Radio is wants to hire to hire Jeff
Schwartz as a college offensive lignment from Oregon to do
a couple of radio spots locally Eugene. There's a Fox
Sports Radio and Eugene, and you get paid a thousand
dollars to do it, and it might be more than
you would make otherwise, but you know, you get you
go to a car dealership or you a local eatery.
And that's the way it was designed to be. And
(03:22):
of course the system would be abused almost immediately. Camp
situation where where you be paid for play right, where
a team says, hey, man, well we'll make you sign
those autographs, but we'll give you two mill dollars a year
to do so, you know, and Nico's was so loudly expensive.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
The reported asking price was eight million dollars at the time, right,
And they ended up being confirmed to be correct. And
so there was already that those eyeballs to a situation
at Tennessee because of those numbers. And then the story
comes out that he wanted more money. Now they they
will tell you his side will say no, no, no, we
don't want more money. And this is where I think
(04:01):
that just be honest with us, because the the the
reasons that his side is giving for this breakup. Our
Tennessee's offense does not prepare their son for because it's
mostly from the parents side, right, who are his agent.
He doesn't prepare our son for the NFL. And so
(04:23):
two things here that are are silly. One is that
the reason why the offense didn't work last year's your
son didn't play well enough. Okay, So that's that's a
that's that's the reason why. But two, have you watched
any of the college offenses around the country, Like should
dear Sanders plays in a horrific offense in Colorado. It
is so poorly designed, does not matter. You know, we've
(04:44):
seen players go to go from air raid offenses. We've
seen players get drafted with no wide receiver help. We've
seen we've seen all these players get drafted with no
offensive line help with the college offenses are terrible. There
there there are college offenses that are Jackson Dart for example. Okay,
old Miss probably will be a first round pick. His
offense is like ninety seven percent exaling a little bit
(05:06):
of course RPOs and play action packs. It's not a
pro offense, Brian. It doesn't matter if it matters how
the quarterback plays and then the talent that you can
project off of that play to the NFL. So I
just wish they would own it, Brian and just be like, yeah,
we want more money. It didn't work out. Oh well
it's a pro model. We're leaving. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
And I don't know why both schools.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Schools are at least ahead of this, Like Ryan Day
last year, will openly say, hey, we need more money
if you want to sign these players, we need a
lot more catch. The schools will openly talk about at
least the coaches will openly talk about needing more money
for a legit roster fueled by nil. I don't know
why the players don't. It's still like this outdated thought
(05:53):
of not us, we weren't asking for more money. It's
like you can, it's legal. What's the problem if you're
holding out for more cash, which you clearly were, what's
the problem with saying, yeah, we were doing it. We
overestimated the market. I guess, I don't know. We thought
it would be okay, wasn't okay. We're picking ourselves back up.
(06:13):
But there's nothing wrong with asking for more money. But
these these kids are like, no, not us, I would
not ask for Why Why are you hiding behind a
clear lie? Of course you were asking for more cash?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I think it's it's it's it's sort of twofold here, right,
it's still a sort of taboo for players to openly
ask for money. It's all done behind the scenes. Right,
Also do these collectives? You know, a lot of states
have like laws shielding the capability to learn about these deals, right,
even because there's you know, there's talks about a register,
(06:49):
which I don't necessarily agree with, but you know, you'd
register all your deals, and I think you actually have
to with the double A, but it's very secretive and
on what you actually get. You know, same with like
you know, NFL do right, Like the agent says what
it is, and you realize, you know, Stefan Diggs three years,
seventy million dollars, it's like actually a one year idea
for twenty million, you know, Like, I mean, part of
it is that too. But I think the kids, there's
(07:13):
still a large section of college football fans that have
a problem with the market dictating what the price for
these players are. Look, is paying a high school quarterback
too millars a year a lot of money? Yeah, I
think it is. But it's not my money, right Brian,
And that doesn't affect my life at all. If Organ,
(07:36):
I'm an Organ fan, or you're an Irish fan wants
to pay you know, CJ. Carr, Dante Mora two quarterbacks
two millars a year, who cares? It's not my money.
I'm I it's it's it's a it's a booster's money.
And and then I think the other interesting part about
this whole situation is so July one, twenty twenty one,
is when the Supreme Court essentially allowed players to make
(07:59):
money the first years before the first year collaetable starts
in twenty twenty one. That year was traditional nil deals
that we saw and then obviously they pay for play.
So we're basically into year four this summer of the
pay for play structure that we have right now, and
the money is flowing. Man, those guys are making backups
are getting six figures at Power five conference and Powerful
(08:21):
conference schools. Like it's flowing. Guys are making money. And
the question I always had about this process, and I
think we're starting to see it with Nico. This might
change the tide of things. That's why maybe why players
don't want to talk about the money's muck because I
want to try to keep it as quiet as possible,
is that at some point I thought, and we're sticking
to a situation here where these money, the people that
(08:42):
donate the money, they want to return on investment. Now
it's a different return on investment than obviously putting in
the stock market, because you know, these are billionaires that
their toy is their college football program. They love, you know,
and they're trying to win championships and they have the
money to help the program do that. They want prestige,
they want access to the program, right, and you get
access to the program through paying the players and whatnot. Okay, fine,
(09:06):
but the return on investment on some of these deals,
to me, was never going to happen. It was going
to get to a point where boosters are like, I mean,
I have the disposed of income, but I really want
to spend two minds on quarterback that that doesn't win
us enough games. And I think we're seeing that here too,
where Tennessee's and Boosters are like, a, NA, we're good.
(09:29):
And I wonder if it has a trickle down effect
to some other places that are paying players too much
money and the Boosters say the return of investment is
just not there. We're scaling back on how much we
invest in the players.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, well, yeah, there could be a ripple effect on this.
I think that some of it. We always talk about
quarterback deals in the NFL resetting the market, right, We're
always talking about that, like, oh, Dak Prescott just got
an extension, he reset the quarterback market, so on, and
so I think this could sort of reset the quarterback
(10:04):
market to a degree. In college football at least, you're
gonna have to have players that put up better numbers,
are more productive, and then if they want to pull
a Nico and hold out for more cash, then they
might reset the market. But with him holding out and
Tennessee giving him the Heisman stiff arm, you know, like
that does, at least for now, reset the market as
(10:26):
of right now. I just think, listen, it's one of
these deals where there are some unintended consequences with NIL. Obviously,
when it comes to college sports, I think that's the
least they can do. These players are bringing in so
much money in college football and they're not seeing a
dime of it. They're just making a buck off their name,
(10:47):
image and likeness. That's the least they should be able
to do. Now. It does lead to some unintended problems,
But you think about these agreements with the NIL, between
the school or the koalac and the player, it's sort
of these handshake deals where it's like, yeah, we'll pay
you x amount, and well, if the player underperforms, maybe
(11:08):
UNLV just doesn't pay. At least that's according to Matthew
Sluka remember the guy who left there, And it's like, well,
what happens if the collective just doesn't make good on
what they promised?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Really nothing?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
What happens if the player outperforms the expectations and holds
out for more cash? Like there are a lot of
people that are banging the table for more legislation, and
it's like, look, this happens in the NFL all the time.
You have these legally binding contracts and players still hold
out from more cash. Teams still cut players left and right.
(11:45):
Even if you had more uniformed quote unquote contracts in
college football, you can still have these things happening. So
I don't know, man, it's the wild West right now,
and I think the unintended consequences for a lot of people,
it turns into you know what, I knew it was
gonna be a problem when these players started making money,
and it's like that's what they deserve and you're just
(12:07):
gonna have to deal with some of the unintended consequences.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Arrington and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
How embarrassing is this, Jeff where apparently it was the
Mavericks governor who initiated He called the code red basically right,
he called for like this very invite only meeting with
the media where a John and Bob can be there
nobody else and don't record it like this is very
(12:47):
hush hush behind closed doors here. And that's where Nico
Harrison said, Hey, no regrets. Defense wins championships. We had
a bunch of injuries. No one can see my vision
with eight D and Kyrie, and as if those guys
are typically healthy, which they aren't. So he stands by this.
He can't say anything else, Jeff. He can't say, you
(13:08):
know what, now that we've had a couple of months,
I do regret trading him in the first place, or
not getting top value for the guy. He can't say that.
But don't be dumb enough to buy this. He's not
gonna sit here and be like, yeah, you know what,
I do have some regrets. He has to, like pound
the two. No regrets at all. Of course he has regrets.
How could he not? How could you be a GM
(13:29):
and not regret trading Luca for top dollar.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
You have to regret that.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Of course, of course he does. He's he he of
course he does. There are a lot of things that
that happened, like during COVID that I think, uh non
obviously obviously very serious things. But like the governor thing
happened during COVID, Right, they change the name from owners
to governors. I think is that the timeline card. Is
it before COVID that.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I'm not sure, but somewhere around there.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Yeah, they own the team, owners of the team, like
call them owners. It's just it's some of those changes,
Like it's just so silly to me, like we can't
be adults about they own the team. That's the connotation.
They're owners of the of the NBA team that they owned,
that they bought, that's what they owned. They owned the players,
they owned the team. So dumb governors. Okay, I am
(14:22):
a Lakers fan. Okay, Brian, as we have noted many
times working together, I'll mention it Sunday, just everyone knows
again and tomorrow morning. I will never understand how this happened.
I'm very grateful what happened, but there's there's no way
to sell the It's not like they traded away a
thirty seven year old. He is twenty five years old. Okay,
(14:48):
defense was championships. Sure, SODA's making a lot of three
pointers and Soda scoring one hundred and twenty five thirty
points a game, and you can build a team team
around Luca that's really good defensively and let Luca be himself,
like you can do all those things. They are all
(15:08):
possible in the NBA. Not every superstar is the best
defender ever, and that's okay. You build a team around, right,
that makes up That's what a quality team does, right, Brian.
You have deficiencies, you find players to bring in to
help those deficiencies, and you roll with a superstar. And
it's just shocking they win this because it's such a
(15:28):
short term high for the for Nico eventually to build
this defensive team, because they're not winning a championship with
a d and Kyrie and Klay Thompson. You're winning a
championship with Luca and whoever else around Luca. So it's
still shocking this trade happened. It's even more shocking when
(15:49):
you know the Lakers are I think, are gonna play
well this postseason outside of obviously Okac in Western Conference
Finals potentially and Dallas is obviously. Now they's some injuries
and one on I get that, but I mean fighting
to make the postseason. Brian. It's gonna be as one
of the worst trades, NBA history, and I don't know
there's any explanation it's ever going to make sense to anybody.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
No, but your point is is so good where there
are even superstars where you have drawbacks, right, Like was
Tom Brady scrambling around like Lamar Jackson or anything close
to that? No, you build around, Yeah, but you build
your team around that. Look at Josh Allen, My mind
(16:31):
goes to football. Of course, how could it not, but
the Bills quarterback. This was popular last off season. There
was talk that he was overrated and oh, you look
at some of the turnovers and it's it's like, bro,
if you look at all the turnovers, he had like
forty four total touchdowns, Like the what would it be
the twenty three season when we're talking about it last
(16:51):
offseason he had somewhere around like forty four touchdowns and
the total turnovers, It's like, dude, he's You're coming out
well ahead with the rushing ability, the total touchdowns, the
passing yardage, all that stuff. Yeah, is there a dumb
mistake here.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Of their shirt?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
You're gonna have to live with that. Like we saw
this in the play in tournament. Zach Edy is far
from a star, you know, the seven foot three or whatever.
He is a big man for the Grizzlies. They're hunting
zach Edy, They're putting him in pick and roll situations,
and he's just like, oh gosh, I'm supposed to guard
a guard. No, thank you. They're chewing him up. But
(17:29):
he got seventeen rebounds and so there's some give and
some take. He's not Luca is a superstar. Zach Edy
is just a guy, you know, like Steph Curry is
not a lockdown defender, but you build around him. And
that's why they were so successful for so long. That
the anti Luca people and they're out there. Most everybody's like, wow,
(17:52):
what a trade. The MAVs are dumb. But there are
some anti Luca people out there that are like, he's
donuts don chicic.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
He plays no defense.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
It's like who cares?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Look at what.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
He's bringing offensively, who cares? It just doesn't make any
sense whatsoever. And for the MAVs, that's how the MAVs
viewed him. The MAVs viewed him like that, that's insanity.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
It really is, you know, I know, have we gotten
like the definitive like Maverick side of this, yet it's
basically the definitive side that they just thought he was
out of shape and overweight. I mean, I guess, I
don't know, I just he's The thing about it, too,
(18:40):
is that you know, Brian like athletes, you know, they
reached their sort of physical maturity most often in their
late twenties. And you know, I imagine that Luca's body is
gonna look a lot different, you know, twenty eight, twenty
nine than it is now, and he just took no consideration.
(19:01):
And also too, like, Okay, you know he's making a
lot of money, You've invested a lot in him. The
idea that you just can't hire people to help him
like makes no sense to me, Like, hire people who
can help him achieve the physical you know, nature that
you want him to be, and they just like are like,
nah no, we're just gonna blame someone. It just it
(19:22):
makes it does not make sense to me whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
That's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I'll never get it. So what's so funny to me
is I didn't think about this until you said that.
But you'll see certain athletes and you're like, okay, maybe
they're just athletic freaks, and you think he's not gonna
be able to do that forever. And then what Like
take Lamar Jackson for instance, he is an unbelievable athlete,
(19:50):
and you have to wonder, like take Russell Wilson. Russell
Wilson was never a dynamic as an athlete like Lamar Jackson.
But in his younger days, he could buy top way
better than he is right now. He could extend plays
and he could make a lot of things happen. And
now that you're seeing him in his you know, later thirties,
you're like, oh, he can't buy time the same way.
(20:12):
He's a different quarterback, right Like, so I can understand
the thinking if you look at Lamar and say, well,
what happens when he's half the athlete that he is
right now? Then what kind of quarterback do you have?
That makes sense? If you look at Luca, his game
translates to old He already has the old man game.
So you know, even if the conditioning isn't great, even
(20:35):
if he's like a comparable body type or body weight
eight ten years from now, he's still gonna be a baller.
Like you still know he's gonna be incredibly productive because
he doesn't rely on just sheer athleticism.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yo, kitch yo could.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I don't know why we're just like pointing fingers at Luca.
Oh no defense, Look, he is an offensive savant just
like Jokis Yolkics doesn't give you great like lockdown defense.
No one's talking trash about him and making any sense.
But I just I find that to be so funny
(21:14):
where the maps are just like, well, it's really not
dedicated to his conditioning, And I mean, who knows where
that goes? Five years from now, you already know where
it's gonna go. He's gonna be probably a similar body type,
and he's still gonna be able to get your buckets
because he doesn't need to rely on sheer athleticism. It's
just there's no explanation for the MAVs.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Think there's none, and they can continue to say that
they have this this you know this what they keep claiming.
It's you know, it's uh, it's the defense. I mean,
it's just just the the team. Is Boston still the
favorites to win the championship?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
No, okay, okay, and they.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Do play defense, but you know, like the Celtics is
just like they make enough threes in a given game
it's yea right, Yeah, to focus on defense like this
and lieu of the superstar. And you know, again, like
we've talked about in many different ways in the last
ten minutes, you know, the the lack of creativity to
(22:18):
figure out a way to keep Luca and play it
the way you want to be is still staggering, Brian,
because good organizations figure it, figure it out. And you
know what's was so stunning when the Lakers went to
Dallas like two weeks ago, the Mavericks fans were openly
(22:38):
cheering for Luca in the Lakers' uniform. Yeah, I've never
seen it in my life, Like like you you let
a player, yeah, you let a player walk who's beloved
by the fan base too. At twenty five, it wasn't
like a player that the fan base was like, get
rid of this guy. He's not performing, we don't want him,
as you know, we don't want to root for him.
(22:59):
Get rid of a player who the fan base adored,
and Luca wanted to be there. I think he still
would be like, yeah, take me back if you could.
But it's just the whole thing, like do we not
think the Lakers have been an organization over the years
and has been great for superstars as we know. Right,
I'd imagine Lakers said, you know what, Luca, here's a
(23:19):
personal dietitian, here's a chef. Here's like all like, yeah,
we might not like your condition. Guess what, we'll hire
people to help you, Like, we'll make it right because
you're you're you're such basketball player, Like why could the
MAVs do that?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, it's and also the defense wins championships thing. Listen, man,
I think we gotta we gotta get with the times
over here. This isn't you know, like old school nineteen eighties,
nineteen nineties basketball, where you know, like the heat and
the knicks, the like ise sixty eight to sixty five,
(23:57):
like it might be the vital score in some of
those games. Right, this is a different day and age
with the way the games are officiated, the way they're
spaced out, the way teams are shooting threes, the way
big men are shooting you know what I mean. Like,
defense is incredibly important, don't get me wrong, but when
you're looking at the NBA, in the NFL in modern times,
(24:18):
balance wins championships.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
That's the honest truth.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's not just defense and you're not gonna be like
the Patriots and the Rams in a thirteen to three games,
Like that's the exception. You're seeing the Eagles beat the
Patriots forty one to thirty three. You're seeing the Chiefs
a few years ago beat the Eagles thirty eight to
thirty five. There are so many examples where defense didn't
(24:44):
win championships. It's some concoction of balance, Like you've got
to have some offense, you gotta have some defense. You
have to have a blend of both. But this idea
that you can just suck offensively, what does it matter?
As long as you play great defense, you're winning a title.
That's not the way it is in the NFL or
the NBA anymore.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Correct. And of course we're not saying that defense does
not matter at all. Of course it doesn't matter, but
you but that's not the way that I would build
a team to win a championship. You gotta get stops sometimes,
but just you got it got in every sport, man,
the goal should be how to we score the most points,
the most runs, the most you know, the most goals,
(25:25):
like whatever it is, like it's that's the way you
got to build your team. You know what when you know,
when you're rebuilding or you're starting a new Yeah, maybe
a focus on defense a little bit, you know, like
get some toughness, get some physicality in your team. Sure,
you get to a point where you have a superstar
like Luca, you throw everything out and you do what's
what's best to keep that guy and get the most
out of him. And Dallas just punted on it. They
(25:48):
just put they don't have to live on the forever.
The Lakers are not winning championship this year. I think
we agree on that. But they're not. They're a couple
pieces away from winning a championship, right and massive. If
Mark Williams on the roster, we'd feel different about them, right,
I think we agree.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
That would that would help quite a bit, you know,
that would help.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
There are two or three players away. I think you can.
I hate to say this. I feel like a dummy
if if it comes true, but or if it doesn't
come true. But Lebron, I don't think you play like
this for years and years to come. But you're still
you're you're a frontcore piece away. You know, Aston Reeves
is getting better every year. Maybe Dalton takes a step
(26:30):
in year two and you got Luca like, you're close
to winning a championship and if Dallas gonna look so
foolish if the Lakers able to make a run next
couple of years, where you know, Luca win championships for
the Lakers.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Okay, so draft right around the corner, one week away, Jeff,
beautiful thing right here. I was thinking about this with
the number one overall pick. So the Tights are on
the clock. Which do you think is more likely? You know,
years from now, It could be just a couple of
years from now. But down the road, are they more
likely to regret passing on Travis Hunter or will they
(27:16):
regret passing on cam Ward more? You could? You can
do the same exercise with the dual carter. Are the
Titans more likely to regret passing on ab dual Carter
or passing Onward?
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I think we're on the same wavelength.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Yeah, Island right, Yeah, I've so, I've thought about this draft. Obviously,
it's my job and I even I'm doing a mock draft.
I'm actually who would you like to Dolphins to pick
a thirteen? But I'm doing a mock draft today for
Fox Sports. I gotta I'm in the middle of of
doing it during the break, filling in spots. I have
a Dolphins drafting a defensivelignment, by the way, so you'd
(27:54):
be happy about that. Maybe not?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
That's good. Yeah, we need a Dolphins need these dudes
that are physical in the trenches because so they are
lacking massively in that department.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
So I wrote for cam Ward that he might not
be the number one player on everyone's big board, but
he's the number one player at the most important position
in all sports, which is quarterback. And the Titans are
just not gonna overthink this, right, you have to have
(28:28):
a quarterback to compete in National Football League. The Titans
right now have no one for that job. I mean
Will Levis is on the roster. Did we watch Will
Levis play last season? I mean, you're not running back
with Will Levis. You need to have a quarterback. And Brian,
you should draft a quarterback every year until you find one.
It's that important of a position.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And yeah, passing on cam wardon is.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Just not good business. Yeah yeah, Travis Hunter might be
great Outdill Carter might be great, but those two alone
are not winning your championships. Good quarterback does win you
a championship.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
That's true. I'm halfway with you and I'm halfway nine. Okay.
The part that I'm with you on is if you
don't have a legit quarterback, you're not going anywhere. I mean,
that's just the reality in today's NFL. Even when you
go back to the like the Brad Johnson Super Bowl,
the Trent Dilfer super Bowl, those are one all time
(29:25):
defenses with the two thousand Ravens two thousand and two bucks.
Good luck replicating that. But the other thing is, like,
think about two thousand and two thousand and two, that's
a long time ago, Jeff, with the way the rules
change in the NFL, Like, good luck defensively getting away
with what those teams were able to get away with
(29:47):
at that time. You know, I'm not trying to short
change them. They were magnificent defenses, but it's even harder
now to win big with like a modern day Trent
Dilfer or Brad Johnson.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
That's just the reality here.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
And so yeah, I'm with you. You gotta have a
QB in today's NFL.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Got it?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
But is cam Ward that guy? That's the question. I
get that you're taking swings. You gotta take swings until
you get that guy. But you're not just planning for
twenty twenty five. You should be planning for twenty thirty five.
And if you're like, yeah, I don't know about cam
Ward makes some goofy decisions way too often. You could
(30:27):
absolutely end up regretting passing on Travis Hunter or Abdul
Carter in favor of cam Ward. And I halfway get it.
You got to find your QB. But the question is
that guy the guy? And he very well might not be.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
He might not be, but you have to try, like
you have to. You have to. You have to keep
swinging at quarterback until you find one. And what happens
tod be. The inverse, though, I think, is way worse
right where you draft You draft Travis Hunter, Abdual Carter
or a Bill Carter and the Browns take cam Ward
(31:04):
and he's good. Like it's set your franchise back to
fifteen years, you know, it's it's so the inverse of
that I think is much worse than what we're talking about,
which is you went for cam Ward, it didn't work out,
and you know and that that shucks. Well, we'll drift
(31:25):
quarterback again next season, earned two seasons. Whereas the other
way around, which is which is, Okay, we have Travis Hunter,
a good football player, but cam Ward is jade and
Daniels like he's You wouldn't you'd feel so silly, right
if that was the case. So, I mean, look at
I think Bryce Young is gonna be fine with with
the Panthers, but I magic after a year one, they're like,
(31:46):
oh boy, we drafted the wrong quarterback. But that's I
think a much worse spot to be in.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
It could be, and that's the risk that you run.
I mean, you could go back to let's take a
recent draft to twenty three draft. The Colts took Anthony
Rison fourth overall, and that's obviously been a swing and
a miss. Now, they could have had Seahawks cornerback Devin Witherspoon,
they could have had Eagles defensive lineman Jalen Carter. If
(32:12):
they have either of those two players, they're a better
team right now. But if they still don't have a
quarterback doesn't really matter. So to your point, yeah, you
got to keep swinging on quarterbacks. But if you're swing
it's like which it's like, which pitch are you swinging at?
I get that you to get a hit, you gotta
swing the bat.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
But are you.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Swinging at a fastball right down the middle that's in
your like it, that's in your like your hot zone
right there? Or are you swinging at a knuckle curve
outside the zone that you have no chance of hitting?
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Like?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
That's the question here because you could do this exercise
with Shaduur Sanders. The Saints need a quarterback if he's
on the board at ninth. Overall, I mean the same
idea holds true. Where bro, you gotta swing. Okay, fine,
you gotta swing, But is that the right pitch to
swing at? That's the question, and I just I am.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
I'll put it this way.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
If the Titans passed on cam Ward, sure I'd be
concerned he goes elsewhere and turns out to be the
real deal. That would be a nightmare scenario. But I
think it's more likely that Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter they
turn out to be studs. Then cam Ward turns out
to be a stud. And then I ask myself, well,
then why am I drafting cam Ward just like out
(33:30):
of sheer hope. Most of it is hope here when
you're passing on freebium blue Chippers, that's that's a rough position.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Certainly, it's certainly a fair a fair way to look
at it, where like this you are just sort of
hoping for the best with cam Ward, but you hope
you put the infrastructure around him. Look, I think that
if if the Browns were to call to move up
one spot they love cam Ward, maybe you do it.
I mean, I think that if there was an offer
too that was appealing they think about. I don't think
(33:59):
we've seen that yet, and that's probably why we've had
no movement. I think every team still has their original
first round pick, and which is wild. This hasn't been
the longest has ever happened. We might see some moves
at some point. I think that maybe teams training back up.
Look at the Browns don't draft the quarterback at two.
I certainly see them going to pick thirty one or
(34:22):
thirty two and getting you know, you know, someone to
play quarterback for them. So there's there's options there to
make some trades. But it's an interesting draft, Brian. You
know there's about six premium players and that's about it,
and then there's just guys that are good, but you know,
could could be a bus depending on where they go.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
What's your if we shift it from the Titans, what's
your best guess with Shadoor when he goes.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Where he goes?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, you have a gut feeling on that.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Later than than sooner, I think, right, there's I know
those reports is doing it. Probably work with the Giants.
I think they're working on a bunch of quarterbacks. I
think it's just last due due diligence.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
You know that's today.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
You know his I was looking at this earlier as
I was doing mock draft. You know they have this
consensus big board essentially, right, I'll pull it right here.
I mean he's he's not in the top thirty for
most people.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
That's crazy. Yeah, and yeah you're thinking third overall, ninth
overall big board right here.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
I'm gonna pull it up here. So this is a
content's big board. Then they have like a thousand different
people to do a big boy. They just put it
together right, and like he's well, this is not CONTs
this big board. I mean, he's just I've seen ones
with him. Yeah, I'll pull up right here. I mean
he's it's just it's not great, you know, like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
It varies a lot.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
I've seen him in the teens, I've seen him more
years saying even lower than that. You go back to
bo Nicks. A lot of people had him as a
second round talent. Yeah, I mean and good rookie season.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
He's going the first round. Oh yeah, of where he's okay.
So it feels like now the consensus has him going
to the Saints at nine. I I I put in
my in my uh my mock draft, just for fun,
because look, you need to be a little different. Sometimes.
(36:25):
I put the Steelers trading up to eight for for
suar standers. The reports are now that Aaron Rodgers is
considering retirement. Maybe that's to get more leverage, But I
think if he wanted to play for the Steelers, he'd
already be playing for the Steelers. Brian, they need a quarterback.
What are they gonna gona wait to twenty one to
take Jackson Dart So I think the Steelers are really
live to draft Shudar standards and make a leave that
(36:49):
they're they're normally not bold, right, they're normally not a
trade up team. And but what are they gonna do.
They're gonna roll back and just hope there's a quarterback
of twenty one available for them. But if Standers has
not taken you know, two or three, maybe it is
twenty one. Maybe, because once you get past the Saints
at nine, right, and the Saints again could decide to
(37:09):
go Will Johnson or tight end. I mean, there's no
there's no guarantee they're gonna take the quarterback at nine.
He's going all the way to twenty one. There's no
one between nine and twenty one that's drafting a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah, And that's the temptation for the Steelers is you
just wait. It'd be a little bit a little bit
remember the the uh the mac Jones draft where the
Patriots needed a quarterback and they just waited and I
think it was fifteenth overall he was still there and
they were like, well, all right, fine, we'll go. Like
you could see that from the Steelers. Some of these
(37:42):
Saints beat reporters, They're like, they're not drafting a quarterback
at ninth overall, and maybe that's true, maybe that would
become intriguing if they passed.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
Should there is such an interesting prospect because I think
in the like most players, in the right situation, he
can he can rely thrive. But the Saints are unique
because they need to reset their franchise in the worst way.
They have the least amount of cap space in twenty
twenty six coming up, and they need to do this
for years. Brian, if I were them, this is what
(38:15):
I would do. I'd eat this year. You have Calimorias
first season, you set a foundation for what's expected, and
when it comes to the end of training camp, you
are gutting the roster man like you, all the old guys,
you're gone, you're you're traded, you're released, and you try
to build this team up from scratch. Next season, you
(38:37):
try to be you try to be competitive each and
every week. You win four games and you're in the
you know, the tank for archer manding whatever whoever the
next quarterback is. Because Sanders to me for the Saints
doesn't get you any closer to your ultimate goal. And
that's what I would do if I were the Saints.
I the Steelers need a quarterback far more than the
(38:58):
Saints do right now. I mean, the Saints just need
to be bad to reset their franchise.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah, I don't hate that at all. They've had to
do that for a long long time. And we're well
past the day and age of Drew Brees. You know,
you go back. You got to go back to twenty twenty.
That's when they were twelve and four in the playoffs
Drew Brees last year. Since then, they haven't won double
digit games in any season, and that's you know, they
(39:25):
went to seventeen games the year after, they went to
an extra game in twenty twenty one. They haven't gotten
to ten wins in the last four seasons. So I
don't hate that idea at all. Listen, I'm all for
taking swings. It just again, it matters on which pitch
you're swinging at. It depends on which quarterback, How good
(39:45):
of a prospect is he, what pick is it?
Speaker 3 (39:49):
You know that all matters.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I think you know, if you look at the Colts,
this won't happen, Jeff, But the Colts don't have a quarterback.
Anthony Richardson's not your quarterback of the future. Daniel Joe.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Sure, isn't your quarterback of the future.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
I wouldn't let either of those quarterbacks prevent me from
taking a swing at fourteenth overall on Shaudeur Sanders if
he's still there. I think that's absolutely what they should
do where they're picking the prospect, that makes sense to me.
I don't think they will. But to your point, you
do have to keep swinging to find that quarterback of
(40:22):
the now of the future. If you don't have them,
you're screwed. I just I leave a little bit of
space for like, you can't just be swinging from the
heels at any pitch. It depends on the prospect, and
it depends on which pick you have. That does matter
Hosts And Creators
Brady Quinn
LaVar Arrington
Jonas Knox
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.